134 Coaching Client Spotlight: Camille Edwards, MD

Dr. Edwards is an Assistant Professor of Medicine at the Chobanian and Avedisian School of Medicine (BUSM). She maintains a clinical practice in hematology at Boston Medical Center (BMC) with a specific research interest in plasma cell disorders such as systemic immunoglobulin light chain (AL) amyloidosis. She is committed to improving the care of vulnerable patient populations using her translational research platform to address unanswered questions encountered in clinical care. 

After internal medicine residency, she completed a hematology and oncology fellowship at BUSM/BMC, obtaining rigorous training through the comprehensive cancer center and the world-renowned BU Amyloidosis Center. Her current research, a collaboration with the Center for Regenerative Medicine (CReM) and BU Amyloidosis Center, focuses on using novel disease models for hematologic malignancies to study the earliest signs of disease, test treatments and develop the most promising therapeutic agents for clinical trials. 

She is an active mentor for students and residents, has a strong passion for teaching and mentoring trainees, and is also an alumnus of our Get That Grant® coaching program!

Listen in as she shares her transformative journey from disempowerment and disillusionment in academia to a profound shift in perspective and

• the importance of finding one's purpose even after knowing your scientific interests
• What she learned is required to serve a larger mission effectively
• Transforming empathy, from sacrificial and boundaryless, to self-empowering
• What being the best version of herself began to look like externally

Loved this convo? Please go find Dr. Edwards on Twitter @CamilleVEdwards, on Instagram @camillevedwards2023, and show her some love!

And if you'd like to learn more foundational career navigation concepts for women of color in academic medicine and public health, sign up for our KD Coaching Foundations Series: www.kemidoll.com/foundations.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Why don't you tell us a little bit about what you think, what would you say you have now that you didn't have before the program?

SPEAKER_00: 0:06

Wow. Tangibly. Wow, wow, wow, wow. So much, so much. It's difficult to share all of it, but I think the key points would be confidence, one. More confidence to own my value. But the second thing, and this one might be controversial, but a little bit of re-engineering my empathy. Because my empathy was actually holding me back from asking for what I want, you know, working in a way that suits my purpose and not external purposes, if that makes sense. Not worrying about, you know, just getting grants, just writing publications. I had to start thinking about, yeah, but what do I want? Yes, there is a lot of work to go around. There's a lot of clinical work to do, but what do I want and what can I contribute and how can I be my best self during that contribution. It was, like I said, like a re-engineering of empathy for what I was doing, not having empathy for everything around me except myself, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22

Thank you so much. to do is tune in to your unapologetic career with me, your host, Kemi Dole, physician, surgeon, researcher, coach, and career strategist for an always authentic, sometimes a little raw, but unapologetically empowering word. I keep it real for you because I want you to win. Okay, I don't know about you, but for me, whenever I'm trying to learn something new or integrate something new in my life, I really need to see it written down. I need a framework to understand how to make it come alive for me and also so I can adapt it to make it work for me. And that's what I was thinking about when I started writing the KD Coach Foundation newsletters way back in 2019. I spent about 18 months writing these twice a month, thinking about all the ways in which I could communicate really clearly and honestly briefly about some career shifting tactics, strategies, and perspectives that can truly change people's experience of their career. Now, let's be honest. Some of these were great. Some of them were good. And some of them were just a really good try. But what I've done is compiled them into a digestible format of all of the great ones. I want to be able to keep this knowledge going. I got so many messages over and over again about how much the newsletters were changing people's approach to their productivity, the approach to managing their sanity and their energy during the week, and their approach to thinking about how to translate the goals and the desires of their career into functional, actual actions in their day in and day out experience. If you're interested in any of that, I really encourage you to sign up for our newsletter, the Katie Coaching Foundations. It's free 99 And you can sign up at www.kemidol.com. Once you sign up, you will get one of these top tier, best performing, most cited newsletters from that period of time in your inbox every two weeks. I share these because I know, honestly, a lot of people are never gonna sign up for Get That Grant. A lot of people are not gonna be able to access the coaching we do because we're unapologetically focused on women of color faculty in academic medicine. But hey, I still wanna help our entire field. I wanna start a revolution. So if you haven't checked it out yet, definitely sign up at www.kemidol.com slash foundations to check out our Career Foundations series. Hello, hello, and welcome back to the show. I am so excited this week to be speaking with a lovely human being. I want you all to know that you are going to fall in love with this woman just like I have, just over the space of about 25 to 30 minutes. So you should prepare yourself. I'm warning you in advance. It's going to end and you're going to be like, oh my God, like where can I just hear her voice a little bit longer? So there's your warning. So prepare yourselves. I am joined today by the absolutely wonderful Dr. Camille Edwards. Camille, thank you for joining us on the show. I am so glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Absolutely. So Camille, tell the good folks listening, who are you? What do you do? Where do you work? What's the good work you do in the world? I love that question.

SPEAKER_00: 5:28

So I am a physician scientist and a hematologist at Boston University and Boston Medical Center. And my contributions to the world in my career are really multifaceted. I contribute through translation research, clinical endeavors, my work with trainees, and specifically my translational research focus is on deciphering the socio-environmental and molecular context of precursor plasma cell disorders, which actually disproportionately affect people of color. So essentially I integrate the knowledge gained from modeling plasma cell disorders in the lab with clinical data from large databases about the socio-environmental context. And that I hope will ultimately inform guidance lines on screening, prevention, and early intervention for plasma cell disorders. And that's the answer you'll find on Google. But really, Kemi, as a hematologist, I would say a hematologist of color at Boston Medical Center, I not only provide care for patients with hematologic diseases, but I also hold our section department institution accountable for the mission to serve the underserved, to serve my community with exceptional care. And that's really the crux of my job. So through my clinical work, I advocate for, educate my community, including advising on developing patient education material. And finally, I really pride myself in being a strong advocate for trainees of color. I have an open door policy for them, even when my physical door is closed. And here I also hold my institution accountable for really the fair and thoughtful recruiting and support of trainees of color, given the unique experiences they have in our hematology training programs.

SPEAKER_02: 7:14

Camille, y'all see what I mean? You see what I mean now, don't you? As you're listening, you're like, oh, let me stop trying to multitask. Yes, put the pen down. Yes, turn the monitor off and just listen. As you were speaking, what I thought was like, once again, we have an example of the outsized impact that a single woman of color, in your case, a black woman in academic medicine can have. Thank you. Like that is a perfect distillation of one, why I do the work that I do, but why I'm so passionate about it because we are never one trick ponies, like ever, ever. I think it has to be part of the journey because of what it took to get here, right? Because of what drives us to be here. What you get is so much. It's so much. So thank you for what you do. I mean, truly, truly.

SPEAKER_00: 8:12

It's

SPEAKER_02: 8:13

very felt. It's very felt. I

SPEAKER_00: 8:15

appreciate that. I am glad it's

SPEAKER_02: 8:17

felt. I feel it too.

SPEAKER_00: 8:44

I was in a place where I still had a trainee mindset. And I'll explain. I felt a disconnect. And that disconnect was between where I knew where I wanted to be and where I was. And I didn't have a roadmap. I think it was like being in pitch blackness, barely being able to see what was in front of you and whether what was in front of you was possible. I was disillusioned regarding my institution. I think I used those words in my application. And I'd often ask myself, I have value, right? I think I have value. Why are they treating me this way? Why am I doing 1.5 FTE despite my clearly expressed goals, despite still getting grants, despite writing publications, despite, you know, quote unquote, checking all the boxes. So I really became hopeless and I felt really disempowered. And I started to believe that maybe I didn't have value in academic medicine. I was lost, but I was also done, right? No more. No more. I appreciate that. I'm not staying in this place anymore. I don't like it. This is not where I want to be. And Kemi, I really love how you coined the phrase high achieving women of color because I always stick to the high achieving part, right? Because it means our mission will be accomplished. Yes. Right? We don't back down from a fight. Adversity doesn't phase us and telling us no actually inspires us to get things done. So that's where I was. It was kind of disempowered, but still empowered. I don't know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_02: 10:20

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. It's like disempowered from exhaustion because the way that you have been trying to do it is not working. So the disempowerment comes from like, I have no more gas in the tank, but the disempowerment is not coming from like, I quit, like I quit the mission. You know what I mean? Like those are two different kinds of disempowerment, but I think people can confuse them as the same. Cause they're like, I quit. Like I can't do this. It's not going to work. It's not possible to have the kind of career I want. And I'm like, no, you're just tired. You're literally just tired. And this is how we know, right? We know like in our process, even if I think about like they get that grant application process and like the kind of questions we ask actually clarify that. It's like at one hand, people will be like, listen, I'm quitting tomorrow. I'm so done. I can't do this, you know, all this. But then like you ask them something about their work or where it's going, whatever. And they're like, oh my God, sit back. We're going to do this. And then it's all this excitement comes through. And all this passion comes through and I'm like, okay, this is our lane right there. So I think you said that so well, tired and done, but still empowered in a way to figure it out. Right. Wow. Okay. So you came into our coaching program. You came in to get that grant. And can you talk about one moment, whether early or late in the process where you really felt something like shift for you in a very meaningful way? And what was that? I

SPEAKER_00: 11:41

think I was shifted from phase one. Listen. Phase one is it. Phase one did it for me. Own your value. I got it all. And I think the moment for me was actually sharing my purpose mantra, not so much writing it. So writing my purpose mantra gave me life, like literally gave me life. It was like a resurrection. It was so transformative. It was really foundational to moving forward. And that process of formulating the purpose mantra, then sharing it, foundational. But for me, the key moment was clicking enter to share the purpose mantra on the group. Because I think deep down, I knew my value. I knew exactly what work I wanted to do and how I wanted to contribute to the world, but I didn't own it yet. I did not own it yet. And so sharing it was owning it. It was like, hey, academic world, this is me and this is mine. So that was really a key shifting moment for me.

SPEAKER_02: 12:44

Oh, I love it. Okay. A few things. One, I like that you said it was a resurrection because I think what you're calling is that this already was in me. You didn't have to go find it somewhere. Somebody didn't have to tell you, listen, this is going to be your brand. Listen, this is what it's like. No, this is resurrecting something that was alive before. Again, that has just been snuffed out by the challenges, right? By all of the stuff we were talking about before. So I, I think that that's so important because I really consider that that is part of, I think I would say our ethos is that like, you have everything inside you that you need. We just got to get to it. We got to dust it off. You know what I mean? Like, and that's why it's such an empowering process because you're not now reliant on something outside of you. You have reconnected to what is inside of you. And I know that it's hard to explain if you have not been through it, but I think you're doing a great job of like showing that the other thing that you said was the process of writing the purpose mantra. Cause it is a process, right? Because I want to, some parts of me wants to highlight this because I think there's a lot that goes into like the mission statement, you're this, you're that. And it's like, great, fine, that's fine. But we're not doing the superficial, right? It's like, that's fine. But like, there's actually a process to think through and kind of almost like trace yourself back to like what in the world it is you are doing here. And I think what I would say part of what we do in the process is that it's like deliberately knitting to together all the pieces of your journey, right? It's like, let's actually sit down and take the time and knit together each piece of the journey that you've probably, you've discounted this one. You forgot about that one. You know, all this stuff that you think is like extraneous, but actually is the very fabric that's going to create this purpose mantra that is going to be such a motivator, right? That's going to be such a North star. So those are the two things I heard. And then obviously the sharing part, which gets into like why we have the community to begin with. Cause you know, I think one of the re like reprogramming is recognizing the power of claiming in public because that's what we're doing in our jobs. That's the thing. It's like, that's what you have to do at work. So you got to start doing it somewhere like claim in public, what you are about. Love it, Camille. I love it. Okay. So that was literally, I want to tell y'all that that is phase one, lesson one. We talking about literally like one 16th of the program, but I love to see it. Okay. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you think, what would you say you have now that you didn't have before the program?

SPEAKER_00: 15:28

Wow. Tangibly. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. So much, so much. It's difficult to share all of it, but I think the key points would be confidence. One, more confidence to own my value. But the second thing, and this one might be controversial but a little bit of re-engineering my empathy because my empathy was actually holding me back from asking for what I want you know working in a way that suits my purpose and not external purposes if that makes sense not worrying about you know just getting grants just writing publications I had to start thinking about yeah but what do I want yes There's a lot of work to go around. There's a lot of clinical work to do, but what do I want and what can I contribute and how can I be my best self during that contribution? It was, like I said, like a re-engineering of empathy for what I was doing, not having empathy for everything around me except myself, if that made sense.

SPEAKER_02: 16:36

Yes. I was just going to say, how was your empathy engineered before? I

SPEAKER_00: 16:41

would go to work every day thinking about what meetings I had or what emails were sent to me or what other work needed to be done that was not suited to the purpose that I had. I think that was where I was before. And that was why in the time that I had to do work, I was doing everyone else's work and not actually doing the work that I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02: 17:08

So the way that empathy operationalized itself for you before this, was that empathy was essentially take care of everybody else and everybody else's needs first before I even think about what I need to do and what's on my plate. I mean, it's very sacrificial, service-oriented empathy, right? And I would offer also that it has no structure or bounds. Yes, no boundaries. No boundaries, no nothing. It's just like anybody who needs anything. Yeah. Yes, yes. That I can provide, not that I should, not that just I can't, I'm capable. If I'm capable of providing it, it goes into this bucket, which I have to say, it makes sense that you're tired. Like it makes sense. Like how many years do you think you spent in that phase?

SPEAKER_00: 18:00

Oh man, the first three years of being on faculty. Three

SPEAKER_02: 18:03

years, okay, yeah. So if you just think about that for a second, three years of unending, sacrificial, service-oriented empathy, it's like, it makes sense that you're like, oh my gosh, I am exhausted and done. Like it cannot be this way. Maybe I'm quitting. Like it cannot be this way. So it's like, I think we really need to highlight this because of the way that, especially as identified as high achievers, but also the culture of academic medicine kind of treats any moment of feeling like not up to the challenge, any moment of like, oh, I don't know if I can do this as like failure and as a deficit, right? I think part of the struggle that people can have in actually owning that this is where they are, that they're so exhausted exhausted, whatever is because it feels like a failure. It feels like I don't have what it takes. Like I can't cut it. And I just want to take this moment with you in conversation to emphasize and underline, like, this was not a failure. You are just, you are out of gas in the unending sacrificial service oriented career. Like it done. It was never going to last that long. So, I mean, three years is incredible. Some people can only do it for three months. Yeah. So that was pre. So now tell us what post, what what your re-engineered empathy looks like? Because I know it doesn't look like I don't care about anybody because you opened with telling us how much you care. So how would you describe it now? I

SPEAKER_00: 19:24

think if I were to describe it in one sentence, it is that you are the gift to the world. You have to be at your best in order to serve. You cannot serve without being your best. And that's why you have to re-engineer. That is

SPEAKER_02: 19:42

exactly right. Oh, I love that. I got chills. The journey that you set out to say, I am going to be somebody who advances my field forward. I'm going to be somebody who contributes to the academy. I'm going to be somebody who looks out for and paves a better path for people who come before me. That journey that you set yourself out to requires you to level up and re-engineer your empathy. Yes. It is required. Yes. So this piece... It requires this kind of self-leadership. It requires this kind of self-possession. You don't get to be on that journey and not do this part because you won't last. It doesn't work. And I would say even further, as you continue to be successful in that journey, so you continue, like you said, you get the grants, you continue to make the programming, you continue to raise invisibility, you continue to shift the narrative in your field, you continue to do that it will require new re-engineering like you will reach a moment where you're like okay it's time for a tune-up it's time again because the balance is off and all of that is i think what you said is really starting with i have to take care of myself because if i truly value myself truly value myself as the most important variable in this mission you're like i've set out on this mission i set on this journey this is what i want to do i'm like okay let's just identify what do you think is the most important variable about whether this succeeds or fail. It's you. It's literally, it's you. It's like, can you show up and do it? So therefore your responsibility has to start with taking care of the most important piece of the whole puzzle. So you're like very beautifully weaving in exactly those shifts in perspective that are so important that will then guide people to behave differently. Because I think that's one of the things we talk about, but I think you've also seen it too, is that like, you won't behave differently if you don't shift the perspective first. It will not happen.

SPEAKER_00: 21:46

Absolutely. And you can get all the tools given to you. You can't use them because you have to reframe your mind. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02: 21:55

Beautiful, Camille. Beautiful. Okay. So what would you say, because you've hypnotized people. So what would you say to the person who has signed up, Black woman, high achieving, and she's like, Dr. Camille, edwards is better work like you know what i mean i need to be where you are this better work if you were looking at her right now what would you say to her to help her just make sure that she has like the best most full experience possible that she gets what she needs

SPEAKER_00: 22:32

yes i think first i would recognize or rather acknowledge the fear that she's experiencing at this moment at this crossroads

SPEAKER_02: 22:42

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 22:43

and then And say, congratulations. You got it, boo. You're on the right path. So do the work. Do the work, I think, is the major piece of the advice. Make this a priority. Drop what you need to drop. Reframe what you need to reframe. Take the plunge into the program. Okay, you're here for a reason. You made the investment in yourself. Do the work. Do the lessons. Practice the tools that you've been given so that it becomes is a part of you and you won't regret it. That's a promise. And I don't make promises. That is a promise. And the value added by this program is just, it's beyond what we spend in dollars. Honestly, there's no dollar amount. And I'm so excited. I'm so excited for anyone who joins this program.

SPEAKER_02: 23:32

Thank you. I agree with that a hundred percent. I do. And I, you're right. There's fear. I think we acknowledge that very much, which is why like we basically are in contact with people people every 36 hours. And that's the first time we're like, it's okay. Breathe. Take a deep breath. Like you get the email. That's like, did you freak out this morning? Because you probably did.

SPEAKER_00: 23:54

Can I just say that that email was perfect. I literally told my sisters, this lady's in my mind.

SPEAKER_02: 24:02

You know what? It's born of experience. Like, you know, I just have to say like this, not frivolous. Like I think it's part of being like an evidence-based girl. You know what I mean? Where it's like, you're going to learn from everyone. every single experience. And like, after all the one-on-ones coaching, after all this, like after so many cycles that I think we're in like cycle 14 or 15, it's like, we know, we know what happens. Like we know the journey, we understand the journey. And yes, I get a lot of people writing back to that. Like, did you freak out this morning? They're like, how did you know? Like literally last night, how did you know? I was literally up last night. Like I got to email them in the morning and tell them I can't do that. Perfect moment. So all that to say is that, but you know, know why it's like, what that is about is demonstrating. This is just the very beginning of demonstrating to you how seriously we take this experience and how much our goal is to take care of you. And I think that we don't get, we're not used to being taken care of. We're used to being, oh, here's the challenge. I bet you can do it. And I'll celebrate you at the end. You know what I mean? Go do this hard thing and I'll celebrate you at the end. And my thing is some of the work is hard. It's going to be a challenge, but what's going to be different is that you're going to be taken care of through the whole process. And I think that's part of what's transformative is that you've got all these high achieving people. You've got all these hard workers and they're so used to working under duress. They're so used to working with nobody caring. Nobody's feeding you. Nobody cares about your feelings, nobody. And instead it's like you get this six month experience of digging deep and working hard, but being absolutely taken care of. Like I am very happy to like, we are so thoughtful about all of the components and all that stuff. And I think that that's what, that's like the extra power. And once you experience that, you go, oh, I actually work great when taken care of. Let me change my expectations when I go to work. You know, I'm not meeting with you in two minutes because you decided. No, you know what I mean? You start saying like, we can have a better experience here. Yeah. You have a say. I love it. Okay. Camille, do you have any final words to share with us?

SPEAKER_00: 26:11

I think what I'd want to share, at least maybe for someone who's still contemplating what to do, I know a lot of people listen to the podcast and still may not know what to do. Community is also one of the major things I took away from doing Get That Grant. And it's something that's so refreshing and so hard to let go.

SPEAKER_02: 26:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 26:41

you and there are people in the space that are experiencing the same things, believe it or not, that you are, that is extremely valuable, extremely valuable. So find your community.

SPEAKER_02: 26:56

Yes. And by the way, we know that you're used to being the loner. Yeah. We know because you're the high achiever. You were scoring the bat. You know what I mean? You did all of the work in the group project. Like we know that that's who you are. We know that you're like, well, I don't need community. I just like get it done. Community means I'm going to be slowed down or community means like, I think that's the other part of it is like, it's a full group of people who are used to being lone wolves because of their capability. Let's, let's be honest. Like they're very capable people. And so it's a revelation to be in the room and be like, oh, I don't have to teach everybody. No. Oh, everybody's not just going to automatically turn to me because I'm have all the answers. And then no, I have nobody to ask. It's like, no boo. Yeah. Everyone's not that. So I'm glad. Thank you for sharing that too. Camille, this has been lovely. I could talk to you for another two hours easily, but thank you for sharing a part of yourself with our community. Where can people find you if they want to find out more about this amazing work you do?

SPEAKER_00: 27:55

Oh, wow. Well, I do have a website, which is BU Profiles. So you can look up BU Profiles slash and my name, Camille Edwards. I'm also on Instagram, although not super active yet. Okay. And on Twitter, it's at Camille V. Edwards Oh,

SPEAKER_02: 28:12

wonderful. Y'all go find Camille and go show her some love. Please do. Yes. See that? Look at that. That's changed. It's like, yes, we welcome love. We welcome support. All right, Camille, thank you so much. I hope you all enjoyed this episode. If you did, definitely come and find Camille. Come and find me on all the platforms. I'm at my full government name, K-E-M-I-D-O-L-L. Yes, that is my government name. People still be like, so what's your real name? And I'm like, okay, I don't know how else to tell you that this is my name. It was not a branding trick. Yes. And let us know what you thought, you know, listen back to this episode a few times. I think there are some gems that honestly I did not even pull out either. I'm really thrilled at, I don't know. I'm thrilled at everything today. Y'all I'm going to see Beyonce today. So I'm in a different level of a high. I know, right? Floor seats, girl. We have leveled up. Yes. Oh, wow. I know. Anyway, let me wrap it up. It's going to be great. Let me wrap it up. All right, y'all have a great week, a great weekend. I love you. And I mean it. Take care. Bye.

SPEAKER_00: 29:12

Love you guys.

SPEAKER_02: 29:16

Bye. Hey there. To be honest, this is uncomfortable for me, but here's the thing. I am getting used to leaning into discomfort. So here is my request for you. I am unapologetically asking you for something. If you listened to this podcast episode and it resonated for you and it was helpful for you, can you double check and see if you follow our podcast on your platform? Make sure that you follow us or subscribe so that you never miss an episode and you don't have to worry about hearing from somebody else that an episode was good because it will just automatically download to your device. Here's another thing that would be amazing. If you haven't yet, I would really appreciate if you go on your podcast platform to rate our podcast and to post a review if you love it. It does actually make a difference to people being able to find this podcast who similarly would appreciate the content and basically I would appreciate it a lot. So thanks for listening. I do this because I want us all to be in community with an elevated level of conversation. And I hope that you follow us. You like our episodes and you consider leaving a rating and review if you haven't yet. Thanks so much. Take care. Bye.