158 GTG Alumni Spotlight: Teni Brown, MD

In our latest podcast, Kemi interviews Dr. Oluwateniola “Teni” Brown, a board-certified Obstetrician and Gynecologist, and Assistant Professor at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine. Dr. Brown leads diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives at Northwestern Medicine as the Director for Obstetrics and Gynecology and for McGaw Medical Center.  

Her clinical focus includes pelvic organ prolapse, urinary incontinence, and fistulas, while her research centers on treatment disparities, surgical outcomes for pelvic floor disorders, and bias in medicine. She's dedicated to providing quality, compassionate, and equitable care and is an alumnus of our Get That Grant® coaching program! 

Dr. Brown's insights offer a powerful message: Bet on yourself, embrace the journey, and never settle for anything less than the joy you deserve in both life and career. Join the conversation as they discuss: 

• Dr. Brown’s decision to enroll in "Get That Grant" and "Fully Funded" and how coaching helped her navigate challenges, apply skills, and realize her dreams. 
• The importance of a supportive community with a shared language and strategic structure that allows for articulating your ambitions without intimidation. 
• The power of coaching in strengthening one's personal authority and decision-making skills.  
• Why learning to lead oneself effectively, empowers you to navigate your professional journeys more confidently. 

Loved this convo? Please go find Dr. Brown on Twitter/X @teni_brown and show her some love! 

And if you'd like to learn more foundational career navigation concepts for women of color in academic medicine and public health, sign up for our KD Coaching Foundations Series: www.kemidoll.com/foundations. 

REMINDER: Your Unapologetic Career Podcast now releases episode every other week! Can't wait that long? Be sure you are signed up for our newsletter (above) where there are NEW issues every month! 

Transcript

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Like for example, if you get an opportunity and I appraise things differently, it's grounded in my purpose and it needs to be aligned. And that took work to learn how to like hear about something that someone comes to you and says, this may be great. And I'm like, yeah, this is actually great fundamentally, but it's not for me. I would spend so much time wondering what I'm missing out by not doing that thing. It's like done phase. I'm like, it's really not for me because I know what it is that I'm trying to do and it doesn't fit. I Exactly. That is so powerful. I mean, I feel like what you just said there is the difference between feeling like you're working this career towards a goal that you are excited about, you know, towards a place that you're excited about. And like along the way you are enjoying the journey. It's challenging. It's this and that, but you keep seeing your progress versus literally you are just waiting for it to not be so bad. Nobody says that, right? That's what they're saying underneath what they're saying. You can't keep waiting. Like we've got to shift that now. How long are you going to keep waiting? Hello, hello. You are listening to your unapologetic career. Being a woman of color faculty in academic medicine who wants to make a real difference with your career can be tough. Listen, these systems are not built for us, but that doesn't mean we can't make them work for us. In each I'll be taking a deep dive into one core growth strategy so you can gain confidence and effectiveness in pursuing the dream career you worked so hard to achieve. All you have to do is tune in to your unapologetic career with me, your host, Kemi Dole, physician, surgeon, researcher, coach, and career strategist for an always authentic, sometimes a little raw, but unapologetically empowering word. I keep it real for you. I love you because I want you to win. don't know about you, but for me, whenever I'm trying to learn something new or integrate something new in my life, I really need to see it written down. I need a framework to understand how to make it come alive for me and also so I can adapt it to make it work for me. And that's what I was thinking about when I started writing the KD Coach Foundation newsletters way back in 2019. I spent about 18 months writing these twice a month, thinking about all the ways in which I could communicate really clearly and honestly, briefly about some career shifting tactics, strategies, and perspectives that can truly change people's experience of their career. Now, let's be honest. Some of these were great. Some of them were good. And some of them were just a really good try. But what I've done is compiled them into a digestible format of all of the great ones. I want to be able to keep this knowledge going. I got so many messages over and over again about how how much the newsletters were changing people's approach to their productivity, the approach to managing their sanity and their energy during the week, and their approach to thinking about how to translate the goals and the desires of their career into functional, actual actions in their day in and day out experience. If you're interested in any of that, I really encourage you to sign up for our newsletter, the Katie Coaching Foundations. It's free 99 and you can sign Sign up at www.kemidoll.com. Once you sign up, you will get one of these top tier, best performing, most cited newsletters from that period of time in your inbox every two weeks. Thank you so much. Hey there, listeners of your Unapologetic Career Podcast. I have a little, very quick, exciting news. Did you know that y'all can now text me your feedback, thoughts, or like even just to say hi after every episode? If you just open up the episode in the show notes, you'll see a little link that says like, text me here or whatever, and you just click that and you can literally send me text messages. I'm quite excited about this. I'm excited to hear from you. All right, let's get on with the show. Hello, hello. Welcome back to the show. You all, I have a guest. I'm so excited. You're going to love her. Sorry. That was very aggressive, but it's just true. And I feel like I'm too old now to try to be cool about things. I'm past the age of trying to be like, oh, don't be too excited. Don't be whatever. I feel like I'm less and less filtered the older I get in terms of my joy. It's like if I'm happy, if I'm excited about something, you're just going to hear it straight out. And that's how I feel today speaking to our guest. I've known her for several years now, she is a lovely, lovely, lovely soul. Her energy is very palpable. Anytime she's in a space, you can feel it right away. And it doesn't even mean that she's the loudest voice in the room necessarily, but there is like an elegance and there is a refinement and there is an authenticity that shows up when this woman shows up in a space. And so every time she shows up in a space with me, I feel better and I feel more grounded. So without further ado, I I would love to introduce you to our guest today, Teni Brown. Teni, can you please introduce yourself? Tell the people about you. Gosh, Kemi, first of all, like you're kind of destabilizing me a little bit. Gosh, I'm so nice. Okay, I am Teni Brown. I am a urogynecologist at Northwestern. And like Kemi said, your alma mater. Although we never overlap. We did not overlap, no. You are kind of like a legend. So I felt like I knew you even before I met you. Oh my gosh. Like I said, I practice urogynecology, meaning I take care of pelvic floor disorders. So all things, urinary incontinence, vaginas falling out, buccal incontinence. I really do feel like that's like part of my calling, calling to enhance people's quality of life by taking care of these conditions that are really embarrassing and people are going to kill you, right? Like it's all quality of life, but it really does impact the way that people can move and enjoy their experiences, interact with their families and loved ones. So I think it's an extremely interesting and special field. Yes. Okay. So it's like you said, it's not going to kill you, but it will kill your joy. Yes. You know, like people change their whole lives around these symptoms, like these conditions that happen with pelvic organ prolapse and all these other things. And also I just, I feel like it's such a field of like resistance to misogyny and like the devaluing of women's lives and their joy and their full livelihood. Right. Cause it's like, it's not about the baby, you know, not about whether you live or die it's literally about like how much joy can you have today right and that's why i love urogyne like i love what y'all do i love that y'all exist and i especially love that you are a black urogynecologist because we need so many more of y'all and i saw some statistic about like the millennials aging like it's about to be on like all of us are going to need you and yeah it's gonna explode it's like first of all we need a lot more of you but like also people are gonna be just talking about this even more than it has even more. And anyway, this is like a whole nother topic. Excuse me. Yes. Yes. We could talk about it. But all that to say is I just, I love what you do because I just find this like this daily, really sacred, really resistance oriented. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like woman, feminist loving part of it. And I love that. And I, you know, Kim, I love that you said that. And yes, I am biased because this is the field that I chose, but there really is advocacy in this, right? Particularly like when I I think about my work and my focus, my research is on older black women in particular with pelvic floor disorders. You think about this group that is really marginalized for many reasons, right? And then you put the, on top of the fact that you have these conditions that people may not even feel are that important, but like you said, it does kill your joy. And, you know, sometimes I'm in a room talking to a patient. I say, you deserve this to have joy, right? Yes. You deserve to not like worry about smelling like urine. And it's important, you know, like the convincing that you have to do to tell a patient that it's okay that you are bothered by this and that you want this to be different. I feel like it just mirrors some of the other experiences that we have. It doesn't need to be this way. Yes, that's it. There is a relationship there. There absolutely is a relationship there. You get to be bothered by the fact that these symptoms down there are stopping you from playing tennis, from going for a run, for jumping around with your kids. And it's okay that the bother is simply, I don't like it. I would want it to be better. And I do think that that very much aligns with what we do with coaching. I think it very much aligns with like my whole mission and what our company is trying to do is to say, you get to want better. You worked really, really hard to become one of the very, very rare black urogynecology trained surgeons in this country. You get to enjoy the work you do. You get to contribute to your field. And that is not wild to decide that you want to higher quality of your work experience. And you want to know that you've made the kind of contribution you came to make. I completely think it's related. Yeah. That is a perfect segue. So why don't you tell us a little bit about kind of where you were when you just like briefly, when you decided, okay, I'm going to enroll and get that grant and join coaching, but especially after that, like kind of coming out of coaching and deciding to stay on and coach with us. Cause that's part of your journey. Yes, absolutely. So, you know, Kimmy, it's funny. I was really thinking about this. in preparation for this. And I don't know if you remember when I reached out to get on the wait list for Get That Grant. I was a fellow. I do remember you're a fellow. All of you that come early, y'all are about it. I never forget y'all because I'm like, I'm going to see her back. It's going to be a multi-year journey. Yeah, because I love ambition. Go ahead. Well, I can't even pretend that I had the language to really describe why it is that I wanted this. But I knew that I wanted to do some big things in this world. I was probably a little delusional, right? Which is, I still Still am. And it's a good thing. I was listening to somebody the other day. Be delusional. Yes. And I embrace that. Oh my God. I wanted to make an impact in my field. I wanted to make an impact in older Black women with pelvic floor disorders lives. And I had like what I think are little grandiose dreams, right? And simultaneously, I felt like I wasn't equipped. I was like, I don't know if I can achieve these dreams. Not because I'm not well-trained, right? It wasn't like something grounded in my like surgical skill or research skills or clinical skills. It wasn't about that. It was more that I looked around me and there's no shade to anybody's career. And I just felt like I didn't think I could move the same way that everybody else around me was moving. I was like, I don't think I'm going to be able to do what I want to do if I'm mimicking person X's path. Yeah. And it was that inner something. It's like, I think I need something different. I started to kind of, you know, like follow your work and hear some of the experiences And I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually what it is. It's figuring out how to move in a space that maybe is not built for you, but like thriving in that space and having some concrete skills and tools. It's not magical. Like just wishing that you want to do these things is not how you get there. You actually need like a process and like some tools, some skills. Let's put a pause. Okay. Go back 15 seconds and listen to what this woman just said again. It is not enough to win. No. It was a way. There's no magic that happens. Now your ideas, your inspiration are very important. Those are very valuable, but they require, like you said, a process and strategy and structure continue. Yes. And that is what I was looking for. And so that is the mindset that I came in with. I was naive. I had no idea how to be a faculty member, but I just felt like in this community of folks of color who were similarly looking for the same thing. And a space that is so safe and sacred where people are like not playing with you, right? It's not a comfortable, like... No, sometimes I think people get a little confused about that. I'm like, uh... No, no, no, no, no, no. People are going to tell you the truth. They're going to tell you the truth. Yes. I can count how many times I've cried in certain spaces. I've cried in these spaces and they're going to simultaneously love on you and push you. And I wanted to be there. So that's why I decided to get that grant. And so I did that, get that grant. And I would say, honestly, Kimmy, I went through that and that was the foundation stuff. I think different people get different things out of it. Where I was when I joined, for me, it was just learning to figure out where the traps are, what not ideal looks like, what ideal looks like. And in reflecting back, I was practicing some, but I don't think I was completely a applying all of the things because I think I was just figuring it out. Yeah. And that is also why I decided to then stay in coaching because I felt like, okay, I know what my purpose is. That was like a really, a lot of what it was like the mental work and the growth that it takes is like, what's your value? What do you want to do and stand on that? I feel like that's what I learned to get that grant. And then also like sort of a landscape of what those skills look like, right. Of like putting in place these processes and these structures. You've You got the knowledge. That's what I hear you say. It's like, I got all of the knowledge. Yeah. And then you graduated and you were like, what? As I graduated, I was like, okay, yeah, it's great. And then I was moving through faculty, like probably for six months. And I ran right back because it is this academic medicine world. It is the wild west out here. And I was like, okay, I know these tools that I need, but I need to practice these skills that I learned. And I needed to be in community because, you know, there was something about like, Like I felt like I needed that protective space to grow, right? And so I got back into coaching to really start to apply and push myself on those skills. It wasn't just about just taking in the knowledge. And I was actually like putting things into practice and trying things and failing at it and figuring out what didn't work and why it didn't work and then not speaking about it and going back at it. Yes. You know, I love that you're describing this because I mean, you're basically what you're describing is a process of like, going from learning something to like really integrating it and then mastering it, which we talk about for fully funded. So just to clarify people, listen, you did get that great. You finished, you finished and stopped coaching with us, which was like completely fine. Went back, had all the tools, but then six months later, found yourself kind of like back to where you were. We're like, okay, I'm coming back in. And when you came back to fully funded, it sounds like it was more of like, okay, I already know this, but it is the application. It is the trial and failing. It is the refining. And it is doing that within like a health community that's like, okay, we, we all speak the same language. We know what you're trying to do. And it's interesting because, you know, I used to wrestle, first of all, do you know, get that grant used to be four months? Can you imagine? What? I know it's too short. It's so much material. And I, it's really interesting because I, I, and I'm still good with this. I have to say, I'm like saying this publicly. I'm still good with this because I know it's a lot of material. So that's the thing is like, it is a lot of material, but I kind of feel like it's a big, like, leap to enroll. It's a big leap to be like, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this thing for six months. It's not cheap. It's not designed to be. So y'all don't at me about that. It's valued at exactly where it's supposed to be. But I think the emphasis is really like, I want to give you as much as possible. I'm going to fill you up to the brim. I still really like that about it because I'm going to fill you up to the brim. But then I recognize as I was going through in early iterations, I'm like, oh, people need and want more time. to apply and refine and apply and refine. And I think that's what you're talking about. It's like continuing that. Absolutely. So can you share with us a moment in fully funded is our second program. Y'all have to get that grant. People stay on and fully funded where something clicked for you, or there was like a, there was kind of like a transition that happened for you and fully funded. Yeah. So, I mean, gosh, you may not remember this. So I was applying for a grant and this was like something that I really wanted and it was going to be aligned with my purpose. And even just the decision to apply for that grant was sort of a shift from the path that I'd been going down. Right. And sort of pivoting to say, this is actually more what you need to be doing. Right. In terms of like carving out that roadmap to get to where you want to be. Yeah. And I, at one point during the process, I was met with some, I'll call it internal resistance at my institution and like, which presented like a real threat to like me getting to do what I needed to do. Yeah. I went to my coaching community and I just remember I was so like wounded is the word today. Yes. I was on this coaching call and relaying what happened. And I just, I cried. I was so upset. And then, you know, the thing about the community is like, they loved on me. And then it was like, what's next? Less time. I know. I love that. People are going to be like, okay, like lots of love. Let's go. Right. Let's ride at dawn. And And people were just like, what's this? And it wasn't even like throwing things. I was just like, what's happening here? And I started to like, yeah, I'm going to do this. And what shifted for me in that moment, and you talk about this, is you are the one that is going to realize your dreams. No one's going to do it for you. There's not some magic mentor that's going to make it happen for you. You have what you need, right? And part of it is just like, in that moment, I feel like it really clicked because I knew my value was so upset about what was happening. So upset. Yes. And in that moment, like the quality of the decisions, the decision making process, I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. Put a plan in place. I'm going to approach leadership and execute it. And I would not have been able to do that a year prior. Right. That could have been a moment that really took me off the path or had me, you know, in a rut for a little bit and a setback. And it was wasn't a setback. If it was like energizing and it was because like, I realized that foundation that had built would get that grant. I was able to sort of think through this problem and create my plan ABC, but also the courage, the bravery to say like, okay, what do you want? And how are you going to bring this to your leadership? Well, yeah. Well, the idea that it doesn't end because the, well, you met internal resistance. So now it's over. Like for a lot of people, that's the end of the story. And then that becomes like, well, I would have done X. Yeah. You know, my institution said, right, that's becomes a 10 year long story. It's like, so I never did. And I think that's to me is like this powerful shift of like, no, this is frustrating and a challenge, but like, it's not the end of the story. It is, oh, okay. So let me learn how to figure this out. Right. To me, that's what owning your value is, right? Like you respect your value and the work that it is that you want to do enough to like, not say this is it. Yeah. Right. That was a turning point to me, like for many things for having the courage to not say oh I'm only a year two faculty member like the what ifs like and it's not moving in not being wise and how you move towards like the political structures right it has to be I mean it's very otherwise everybody would just be fired like what our legacy would be look we have a whole bunch of faculty who've lost their jobs what it is saying that you can actually like problem solve and also the if it doesn't work out like you can move on And there is a comfort in that as well. Yes, that there's never an end. I mean, I think it's a space for dreaming too. I think that that's what I've seen. Yeah, like when you have a shared language, you have a shared strategic structure around like, okay, how can you do this? How can you do that? But you also have this shared space that nobody's gonna say, oh, well, you can't really do that. That's not really possible. Nobody's ever done, like, it's a whole group of unicorns. There really isn't a discussion around like, well, you just can't do A, B, and C. And in fact, that's usually- flag, right? When somebody's like, what? This can't do X. Everybody's like, what? It's like, what? And you know, I think you're talking about, you can't be telling everybody what it is that you want to do, right? Because then you can't hear it. They can't actually, like, think on that wavelength. But the GTG and fully funded space is just a bunch of people. It's like, I've never, you know, been able to articulate the things you want to do, and people are like, I get that. I get it. Yeah, let's do it. Yeah. You're not phased by it, right? At all. Yeah, because everyone is also just doing incredible things. Right. And nobody is, I also think the other thing about it is that people, neither the coaches nor the faculty in these programs are intimidated by your ambition or your success in any way. So it's like, we're not intimidated to the point where we don't feel like we can help you. We don't care. We help you do whatever you want. Now, what do you want to do? Go to Mars? And also it's like, we're not intimidated by it in terms of like, people will show you some stuff that you're missing. You know what I mean? And I think we really need that space. By achieving people, you really need that space. Because if everywhere else, everybody's just like, you're good, you're good, you're good, you're good. You don't have one place where you can go where people can be like, girl, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, let's step back. It's like, talk to me more about that. Yeah, exactly. Talk more about that. See how you're getting there. I would get off some of those calls and be like, whew, okay. And it just prepares you to be able to like, I feel so much clearer on what it is that I want, where I'm trying to go. And that's such a powerful place. I'm not, my journey is still evolving. Like, let me just be clear. I'm not like, yeah, good. I hope you're not done. No, I mean, done in your journey. But like now when like, for example, if you get an opportunity and I appraise things differently, it's grounded in my purpose and it needs to be aligned. And that took work to learn how to like hear about something that someone comes to you and says, this may be great. And I'm like, yeah, this is actually great fundamentally, but it's not for me. Right. I would spend so much time wondering what I'm missing out by not doing that thing. It's like done phase. I'm like, it's really not for me because I know what it is that I'm trying to do and it doesn't fit. Yeah, exactly. That is so powerful. I mean, I feel like what you just said there is the difference between feeling like you're working this career towards a goal that you are excited about, you know, towards a place that you're excited about. And like along the way, you are enjoying the journey. It's challenging. It's this and that, but You keep seeing your progress versus literally you are just waiting for it to not be so bad. I talked to so many people, right. Who don't do coaching to do any of that. And like their strategy is basically, I'm just going to wait till something X happens. Yeah. And then it's just not this bad anymore. Nobody says that. Right. That's what they're saying underneath what they're saying. I'm like, that sounds like you're just waiting for it not to be terrible. Like we can't work this hard to have that. I feel like life is so precious. And we spend most of our twenties, if not halfway into our thirties, most of us just working towards the long-term goal. And I think that's why it gets me so hot. Like it gets me so heated that I'm like, you don't understand. Like you are 15 years in at this point, you didn't just start you're 15 years in, you can't keep waiting. Like we've got to shift that now. And I say that to people who are 10 years into their faculty career too. Like how long are you going to keep waiting? So one of the things that I wanted to hear a little bit more from you about, because people listening might not realize that is that, I mean, but like you're describing these transformative experiences and this community, and I'm not the primary coach and get that grant and fully funded in these programs anymore. So I wondered if you could speak a little bit to why you think you're experiencing what you're experiencing and all these things, like outside of me as the founder, not being there on every call, doing all the primary coaching myself. I mean, I have my answer to that, but I'm so curious to what it sounds like from somebody who's experienced it themselves. Because it's bigger than you, Kemi. You really are a gift. And the thing that you've built with this coaching program is like, I mean, people are going to study this in the future. Thank you. No, they really are. But I think the structure of the coaching program is such that you're not trying to soak up something from one individual, right? Or getting somebody to fix your life. That's not it. Right. There's this part of you, you know, receiving content, right? Like the foundation, like you're getting all that stuff. Yes. What the transformative part about that is like how you apply that to your specific context and like how you are simultaneously learning from other people's experiences. Right. And then also the reflective space to like put out your challenges and then, and have people probe you to get you to basically like produce the solution, right? Yes. I think I ever walked away feeling like, and it's not like people share resources, but it wasn't like, oh, this person fixed my life on this thing. It was like, but people will challenge you, ask you clarifying questions. They like, you know, well, A, because you know your context the best, right? Nobody else can tell you what it is. Amen. And I think that that is why it is transformative. I think it needs to be that way, right? Because it's like, okay, what happens if your coach is sick and there's somebody else? Thank you. Amen. I mean, I agree. Like you, I was, I didn't know what you would say. Just so you know, I did not tell Tenny I was going to ask her that question. I agree a hundred percent. I'm like, I agree. It's bigger than me. And also I'm like, I've not actually accomplished anything. If your solution to all your problems is ask Kemi. Yeah. We've failed. Like then I've just, I've just replaced the institution, you know, with my brain, which is like very dangerous to do. Cause I'm a very charismatic person. So you'll believe whatever I say. Meanwhile, you're doing all types of stuff. They don't make no sense. be like, girl, you know, you want to do X and Z. She's like, no, I don't. I think actually, interestingly enough for me, that is what made me so hesitant to do this at all was because I was like, I do not want to lead anybody astray. You know, that's my last thing I want to do, which is why probably you've noticed, right? There's such a deep emphasis on like your knowledge, your like intelligence about your own life, about what you want. Like we are here to help you figure that out and then give you tools to make it happen and to strategize and like all of that stuff. So it's almost like kind of teaching the fisherman to fish, you know, instead of fishing for the person. And I think what's so beautiful about the programs and how they blossomed from, you know, one six person, get that grant cohort to three active programs running all times is that it feels to me like a realization of that goal. Because it's like all of you and fully funded, you're like, oh, we know how to do this. We know how to support. We've got the tools. We've got, you know, the framework, we know how to probe each other. We know how to support each other. And I think critically, we understand what it feels like to be like, okay, there's a challenge. I have some ideas and I know I've got some pieces missing. And so when you come into that space, you're like, all right, I know what I want. I'm ready to go. In addition to like continuing to work the curriculum and like have deeper and deeper understanding, I think of some of the concepts that you learn initially. I don't know if you agree with that or not. I completely agree. And so like right now at this very moment, I'm not in coaching, Kimmy, right? And I still connect with some of the alumni, right? And recently had like the thing that I was just like, oh gosh, I absolutely would have been taking this to like the Saturday coaching call. Yeah. And I miss coaching, but I was like, what have those skills? Call up a trusted community partner, community member and like work through that. And I'm not calling them to say fix it or like hear me vent about this, which is important, but like that's We went straight to like the solution part. And that framework is a skill that I learned in coaching. Yes. And so I think it's important that you have to practice that in there, right? If everything was dependent on getting your answers from one person, it's actually not sustainable. No, it's not sustainable. And also it's just, it's fraught because again, everybody has blind spots. That's why you need other people in general in the world, you know, because like you can't see your own stuff. Okay. So this is maybe a controversial question, but I'm so curious. So what are your thoughts on the idea of moving this kind of program to be like within institutional walls, meaning like, oh, like maybe there'd be a get that grant cohort, like literally run within an institution. And then like, if you could change one thing about the coaching experience, what would you be? I'm just so curious about this. Oh, oh my gosh. Like what if this was within Northwestern? Beast, love it. Like that would be so, what? Okay, first of all, let me just say, when we talk about like, so institutions are always about, let's get more of this. folks of color up in here, right? Yeah, they are. They're always saying it. You're going to get all these people here and then what? Right. How are you going to support them? I think that kind of structure would be phenomenal because it would be a tangible way to support these people that you bring here into these spaces that are really not designed for them. And I mean, like that would be, gosh, I hope you give them some people. That would be incredible. I would support that. Good to know. Just curious. Just curious. Sure. should be though, like these institutions probably should be thinking like in that way, right? Yeah. First of all, I do. I mean, I have a company and now it's created like multiple jobs for people and I have a job now as a CEO. Like all of this exists because institutions ain't doing what they say they're going to do. What I'm trying to do is plug gaps, right? And it's not gaps about like how to write a specific aims page, right? It's gaps about how to navigate this culture, how to actualize ideas when they are young and fragile And it's difficult to see your path forward. It's how to figure out like a unique signature to your work. So you're not just like a copycat on everybody. Like it's all these other things that you actually do need if you're going to have a kind of career that you dreamed about that you wanted, but isn't anywhere. And so on the one hand, I'm like, totally, it should be. On the other hand, so I'm of totally two minds about this because on the other hand, I'm like, I think the thing about Get That Grant or the thing about our, I should say our suite of coaching programs is that we are unapologetically most aligned with you as the faculty member. I mean, it's so clear, right? In every way. It's like, you are the person that matters to us. It is Penny Brown. Like everybody else can be dust. What do you need? Like, and so I think that it's not that it's an impossible tension to resolve, but like, yeah, institute, it's almost like you would need to be very brave as an institution to be like, we are okay with your primary loyalty being to the faculty member and not to the institution. Because if your loyalty is to the institution, you've got to have different advice. Exactly, exactly. But I think that's, in order for it to exist within institutional walls, I think that's the very first thing, right? That's the very first thing it'd have to be, yeah. I mean, that's about like, like people say, stand on business. You say you actually want to support folks, like you actually- That's true, stand on business. That's actually what it has to be, is that you give folks leading it the true- Yeah, leeway. Yeah, leeway. And it will be disruptive for you. That's right. So it's disruptive, right, Tenny? But think about how you as a faculty member would feel about that institution. You'd give them your arm. Yeah, you'd be like, oh my God. That's the thing is, it's like, it feels risky because it's like, but you could say bad stuff about us or whatever, whatever. But to that faculty member, they're like, no, it was Northwestern. It was my institution that gave this to me. That's where loyalty is born. By the way, institutions, if you didn't know, that's where it's born. Not not because you hired somebody. No. It's because you made a point to show them that they are actually, your interest in their wellbeing is actually first. Even if that means that they leave, even if that means that something, and I can tell from my personal experience, but also the faculty that are like, no, I'm good. This place, me and this place are good, are people who have had that kind of experience. Yes. I mean, the return on investment, right? It depends on what your frame of mind is and like how you view things. Like, I jumped at the idea of that because if an institution truly puts the infrastructure to do that, the cohorts that you have in there, like, I mean, first of all, they're going to be doing incredible things. I know. First of all, they're going to be embarrassing everybody. You're going to be like churning out these people that are just like, what is happening over there? Yes. Okay. First of all, we all talk. I know. The thing is, it's almost like I love for you all to be within one institution because then everybody would be like, what is it about that place? Because you're so, right now you're all spread out, right? So it's like, I see you and I'm like, oh, get that great alum. And I do that. Like when I'm like fangirling and something in the weeds of their social media or something, you see that they're a GTD alum. I was like, duh. Of course. Yes, I love it. Of course they are. Oh, this has been so fun. Thank you for just like having a freewheeling conversation with me. Thank you for having me. Is there anything else you want to share or highlight about your journey that you think would be valuable for people to know, either people who are in Get That Grant right now or people who are not even in the program at all? Yeah, I think maybe I'll say something for people who are not in it and contemplate it because I do frequently have these sort of conversations with faculty who are like in this sort of disillusioned space and are like, ah, and then I listen and I say, so have you ever thought about coaching? I do lots of referrals, okay? Kimmy did not tell me to say that. We appreciate it. I think that I would say bet on yourself. This was like single-handedly one of the best things I bet on myself when I chose to enroll in coaching. It was a, I mean, selfish decision was for nobody else, but for me. And it's scary, right? A little bit, whether it's like cost or time. Time. Yeah. You had a little baby. I remember. And he was on the coaching calls. Yeah. A routine member, president accounted for. And then somebody else breastfeeding on a coaching call. But I would just say, bet on yourself. Like take the leap. This space is incredible, but obviously like you come in ready to do the work. Yeah, for sure. I agree. And I think it's because it's, it is so grounded in your own authority, like in peeling back how you lead yourself is why the skills don't atrophy. Yeah. And that's why it is truly betting on yourself because it's like, you're going to get something for you. This is actually for you. Go use it wherever you want, but it's for you. And I love that. Teni, thank you so much. This has been so lovely. Thanks for having me. I could keep talking for another half hour. We just have to stop. I mean, this has been lovely. We got to stop. We got to stop. I appreciate you having me. Thank you for the work that you're doing, Kemi. Really, I really do truly mean that you are a gift and an inspiration. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. Take care, Teni. Bye. All right.

UNKNOWN: 36:50

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_00: 36:51

Hey, y'all. So potentially little known fact or something you're already quite aware of. I am working on a book. What? Yes. Yahoo. Air horns, air horns. Woo, woo, woo. It's a long journey, y'all. And I just want to invite you, if you're interested in being in that journey with me, if you're interested to hear updates along the way, be in first in line for the giveaways and all those little fun things that happens as we get closer to publication date, I would love to have you join me. You can head over to my website, That'll get you on the list for updates and to learn a little bit more what this book is about. See you there. Bye.