Your Unapologetic Career Podcast
Your Unapologetic Career Podcast
183 GTG®️ Coaching Client Spotlight: Allison Wu MD, MPH
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In this episode, Kemi welcomes Dr. Allison Wu. Dr. Wu is Principal Investigator of the Wunderfull Lab. She is a clinician-researcher board certified in pediatric gastroenterology and nutrition as well as obesity medicine. Her research focuses on epidemiology and health services research in pediatric nutrition and obesity. She completed her fellowship in Pediatric Gastroenterology, Hepatology & Nutrition at Boston Children’s Hospital and the Harvard-wide Pediatric Health Services Research Fellowship at Mass General Hospital for Children. She is also an alumnus of our Get That Grant® coaching program!
Together, they explore Dr. Wu's unique journey that intertwines her love for science, nutrition, and working with children, shaped by her family's background in academia and the restaurant business. Join the conversation as Dr. Wu shares her experiences with coaching, her insights on how supportive environments can foster growth, confidence, and collaboration and the importance of grant writing in creating meaningful change.
Conversation Highlights:
- Navigating maternity leave and career transitions
- The role of coaching in professional growth
- Building community and collaboration in academia
- The importance of intentionality in career development
Loved this convo? Please go find Dr. Wu on LinkedIn to show her some love!
🎯 Inspired by Dr. Wu’s journey?
Applications are now open for the July 2025 cohort of Get That Grant®! If you’re ready to build confidence, clarity, and community as you secure funding for your work, we’d love to support you.
👉🏾 Join the Waitlist + Apply Now to take the next step. Spots are limited!
And if you'd like to learn more foundational career navigation concepts for women of color in academic medicine and public health, sign up for our KD Coaching Foundations Series: www.kemidoll.com/foundations.
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Nowhere else did I feel had a curated group and I didn't know any of these women. And even from the first call and introductions and the questions being asked and the coaches, I was like, oh, this is totally different. I have never met a group of people like this in one setting.
UNKNOWN:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So it's that magic group and cohesiveness that you immediately feel a bond and you learn from one another. And I mean, I can get more into that as well, but it was the people in the program. And then as soon as I started doing the workbook activities, I was like, oh, I've never done this before. Oh, this is new too. This is new exercise, new tools, new frameworks.
SPEAKER_04:Hello, hello. You are listening to Your Unapologetic Career. Being a woman of color faculty in academic medicine who wants to make a real difference with your career can be tough. Listen, these systems are not built for us, but that doesn't mean we can't make them work for us. In each episode, I'll be taking a deep dive into one core growth strategy so you can gain confidence and effectiveness in pursuing the dream career you worked so hard to achieve. All you have to do is tune in to your unapologetic career with me, your host Kemi Dole, physician, surgeon, researcher, coach, and career strategist for an always authentic, sometimes a little raw, but unapologetically empowering word. I keep it real for you because I want you to win. Hello, hello, folks. Welcome back to the show. I'm so excited to be here. I'm not alone, which you already know if you clicked on the episode. I am with an absolutely wonderful person, but also somebody who's special to me because she has the exact same name of one of like my best friends. And it's so weird because the very first time her application came through, I was like, well, what is Allie doing applying to the program? I was so confused. And then I realized, oh, this is a different Allison Wu. But it does mean that literally every single time I see her name, for whatever reason, whether it's like I'm reviewing client information or I'm looking through progress notes or anything like that. Like anytime I see your name, I just grin because you remind me of my friend. Welcome to the podcast, Dr. Allison Wu. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. So you are not my friend. Although shout out to Allie. I love you. You know, she's also a doctor. I
SPEAKER_01:do. I've seen her because of Google search, of course, who hasn't? And she, she seems great. And
SPEAKER_04:she's great. But you know, she's one L, you're two Ls. So that alone is enough of a distinction. Anyway, why don't you tell the folks your specialty, where you work and what good work you're doing in the world?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. I am a pediatric gastroenterology, nutrition and obesity medicine clinician researcher at Boston Children's Hospital. So I am focused on delivering compassionate GI nutrition and obesity medicine care to children and leading impactful epidemiology and health services research as PI of the Wonderful Lab. And the Wonderful Lab is a play on words because of my last name, Wu. And we conduct nutrition research dedicated to helping kids reach their full health.
SPEAKER_04:I love that so much. Well, I love it for many reasons, but were you somebody who started out knowing, I know I'm going to work with kids and then you figured out it was GI and obesity and nutrition and other things? Or was it like, I'm interested in GI and then you realize kids are way better than adults? Like, I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_01:That's a really great question. I literally come from a background in academic science. So my parents are former, now retired, academic research scientists. So I always knew I loved science, but I actually didn't know that I wanted to be a physician. I didn't really have any immediate family who were physicians. I just knew I loved science. So when I started kind of the undergrad process of exploring things, I actually didn't know that I wanted to go into medicine, but I knew I loved science. Did a couple things for a few years and then actually came back to apply to medical school and my dad is a former gastroenterology researcher so that was funny and and my grandparents when they came to the united states in the 80s they opened a restaurant so there was that food element and then there was a science element and then merging them together was my interest in food as science and food is medicine yeah and so when it came to kids i always I've always loved working with kids. And from the beginning, I think kind of both were probably seeped into my early upbringing because I grew up with jobs that were babysitting, camp counselor, tutoring, kind of all of the classic, you know, some people who got service jobs at different retail, but I always loved the camp counselor taking care of kids. I was even a tour guide for high school students internationally. So I worked many different jobs before going into medicine, and that's what I think has helped me solidify my career path.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, I love that. It's such a beautiful meld of, like you said, all your different influences, including intergenerational influences of being around the food and the restaurant business. And I love that. But I was just like you. All my money came from caring for children. Every job I had from 12 till I went to college and then started working in the engineering library was child focused. So I totally get it. It's such a beautiful area. Okay, so let's get into a little bit of where were you in your career when you started to consider coaching and what was it working for you? So
SPEAKER_01:I'm still early on, I would say. I'm an assistant professor. I'm about four years out of fellowship. I did end up, like you and many people listening, doing multiple fellowships. I mean,
SPEAKER_04:you listed a lot of things at the beginning. I was going to say something about how long that took, but I said, let's not go negative, Kemi. Because I was like, okay, that's a lot of stuff. So you finished your final fellowship.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. And I did pediatric GI nutrition first clinically, then did research in epidemiology and then did a health services research fellowship.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, my goodness.
SPEAKER_01:You know how that goes. And then I did an MPH during that time and medical effectiveness. And it's weird when you finish training because then you say, what's next? So I would say about two or three years ago, I started listening to your podcast. So I've been a longtime listener. Mm hmm. And felt like during my commutes, especially when I would listen to your podcast, I was already getting a form of coaching. I would sit in my car and nod and kind of respond back to you and start laughing in my car if you said something really funny. And then I listened to one of your episodes on mothering with Dr. Lewis and I was pregnant. So that really hit me and resonated in a different way because I knew or had an idea of what to look like. toward as a mother who was about to be a mother. And sure enough, when I got, you know, it took me two years to get my K 23, but when I got my K, I needed to defer it because I was pregnant and I ended up starting my K on the same, pretty much the same day that I transitioned back from maternity leave.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01:So it was a lot of transition. And in the first few months, especially, so for myriad reasons, I felt lost. I felt I felt a bit like I was floundering and having trouble getting the K aims and my projects off the ground. And then your call for the cohort went out and it felt like a sign. So I applied immediately. I had a new baby. I just started my K. I felt like things weren't getting done. So that was when I knew things weren't working was I felt like I was not making progress. I was at the same institution I did my training at, which is a very large institution and felt lost. And I think it was just navigating a bunch of life challenges as well as professional challenges and not having a fellowship or sense of community from a fellowship. Yeah, to give
SPEAKER_04:you the structure. I mean, I think community, yes. I don't want to obviously belittle that because community is important. I just think we totally underestimate what happens when you take people from the structure of a training program. I mean, because I think we look at the independence of your ability to, clinically perform. And, you know, an almost graduated fellow is like basically independent. And then from the research side, I feel like as you're wrapping up research programs, you've like put in your grant, you're like finishing up your publications. You're like kind of in the presenting mode of the stuff. There's that same feeling of like, okay, you got this. And nobody kind of steps back to be like, okay, but you've never actually given yourself structure before. Like you don't know how to do that at all. So I know you're not alone in being caught in that, like, wait, how are things actually going to move though and get off the ground? I have a question about the other side though, is how long was your maternity leave? I had 16 weeks. Okay. So you like four months and how, when you were coming back, especially cause you listened to the podcast, which I love by the way. I mean, that was a big reason why we did that one. When you were coming back, I guess, how would you characterize kind of your outlook kind of coming back? like, I'm so excited to be back and it's all going to, and this is great. Or were you like, I am a pool of sadness or were you like, I am just a pool of anxiety. Like, I'm just curious if you look back to the time where you were just starting, cause you, you're the success story, right? You started, you had your baby, you got your K award, like, right. It's like click, click, check, check, check, check, check, check, check all like under four years, you know, and now you're starting, but what was your internal feeling even before you got to like, oh my God, I might be overwhelmed after you started.
SPEAKER_01:You pretty much nailed what I was going to say is you think you're quote set or at least for the immediate period that okay five years I have my K I'm good I have this runway yeah and then it starts and you feel oh the clock is ticking but then you're also flush I was also coming back from a maternity leave which is a very unusual period in your life yeah where you cannot truly understand what it is like until you have gone through it no and it is a roller coaster it is a roller coaster of emotions you have a human being even when you have help a wonderful partner sure and a village you know that could be its own podcast is what is maternity leave like so to your question it was a roller coaster it was all those emotions you mentioned plus and even as you know as an ob gyn specialist it's hormonal too
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:so So there are so many shifts, biochemical and then circumstantial, societal, all the things. So while you think you're set, I did not feel like I had the tools to
SPEAKER_00:make
SPEAKER_01:a proper start. And I'm happy to go into also why I felt like coaching has been helpful. Oh, we're getting there. Yeah. I'm just, I
SPEAKER_04:just was kind of like, I wanted to like set the scene, you know, it
SPEAKER_01:was a struggle because I didn't know how to focus. I didn't know how to sit down and get the thing that I thought I was going to get done done. I didn't know what I needed to get done done.
SPEAKER_04:the things I try to do is always get people to understand, like, there is no set of characteristics, timing or circumstances or whatever that makes this transition like easy, breezy, beautiful cover girl. Like it doesn't. And so like somebody could listen to you and be like, well, she has her case. She has her baby. She had 16 weeks maternity leave. Like everything is set. But I think that's part of the problem, right? Is that like, there's all these narratives that differ wildly by the way of like, okay, if you have these things, you're good. And like every single one of them is a lie because none of them have to do with like your inner CEO, your structure, your boundaries, learning how you work, all of that stuff. So that's why I just like want to emphasize that point. That's like, if you like find yourself constantly thinking, well, if I just had this, or if I just had that, well, I didn't get my case scored. So this is why, like, there's always some reason you think, I promise you, that's not what it is because we work with people across all things. Like people who've submitted grants five times, never got any funded. People have gotten funded every single time. And like, that's not the problem. So I just, I appreciate you sharing a little bit more, but yes, now let us know you come into GTD. You're like, okay, this is a sign. I'm following the sign. I love scientists who follow the signs, the intuition. So can you share with us a moment where something shifted for you, where we moved out of like this kind of hormonal overwhelmed, how do I move through internal and external boundaries? Like where it felt different finally.
SPEAKER_01:So even from the moment the program's started. And even in those first few sessions, I knew that this program was going to be different. I was simultaneously enrolled in two other coaching programs for externally driven reasons, right? That were part of the award, that were part of kind of the training and had different strengths, but they were, did not have components that the Get That Grant program had. So I could tell from the was going to be different, especially in direct comparison to the two other coaching programs I was doing at the time. And I think one of the big moments though, so even from the beginning, I knew, but a big moment happened actually a few weeks ago and I'm still in the program. Wait, can you pause? I'm so sorry because I should
SPEAKER_04:not do this, but can you tell us why did you think from the beginning it would be different? What was it that you were like, oh, this is not like these other programs I'm in?
SPEAKER_01:The people in the group with me and the community, which is bringing me back to kind of nowhere else did I feel had a curated group. And I didn't know any of these women. And even from the first call and introductions and the questions being asked and the coaches, I was like, oh, this is totally different. I have never met a group of people like this in one setting.
UNKNOWN:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So it's that magic group coherence. I'm dancing. Y'all can't
SPEAKER_04:see me. It's a place where you can let your guard down and learn. And I think it kind of shows people how rare it is. Cause you realize, oh my gosh, I've never been in a professional setting and felt this like free, you know, like everybody here is qualified. Everybody here is amazing, but like we're being real and open. I just, I don't know. It makes me so happy. Okay. I won't dwell on this. I'm sorry. It just makes me so happy. All right. So tell us about the moment where you shifted for you, which you said you were going to tell us something that fairly recent.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I'm in phase three, full disclosure. I still have to finish, but I'm very excited, but we had a coaching call a few weeks ago. I was traveling for work and I was in Hawaii actually for the pediatric academic societies conference. And I had to join the coaching call at five 30 in the morning because of a Hawaii time. And yet I was excited and looking forward to it. Even though the day before I was at a conference activity after activity that Mm-hmm. I hate Zoom, but I know why it's necessary, where I feel energized by the other women in my group in a time of a lot of stress for many of us and globally, circumstantially difficult. But yet I feel hope and that all these women are invested in one another and each other and themselves and the coaches as well. So that was this moment where I was like, oh, wow, I'm walking away from this call feeling energized. and I have a buddy and my buddy and I were texting that day to continue the conversation
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:so I think that was another big moment and a shift where I realized okay this group of people I continue to learn so much from and will continue to keep in touch with
SPEAKER_06:I love it
SPEAKER_04:what do you have now that you didn't have before embarking on coaching other than your coaching buddy
SPEAKER_01:so So I mentioned this, but one of the major things I have is confidence in myself, in my ideas, and in my small but mighty and growing team. I think what you and the Get That Grant program do a great job is extracting those things from us as we do our own work and reflection. And so I have new research ideas and fresh approaches to the clinical and research mission that I have. And one of the things that I have is I have a website now because the confidence that Get That Grant has brought me is like, okay, I need to be more public
SPEAKER_02:with
SPEAKER_01:what I do because people don't know about it. And that's what's gotten us into a certain situation with academic research and public health is people don't know about the good work people are doing. Exactly. Especially in public health. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:This is part of the reason why I do these episodes too, because I'm like, can you listen to all these amazing women of color who are doing amazing work. Like we're all here. Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:And I listened to your podcast in September of 2024 that kind of was already saying, oh, diversify funding, diversify funding.
SPEAKER_04:Yes, I was. Thank you for
SPEAKER_01:giving me, I said, I was telling you all this. And then when everything happened and continued to happen now, even as we speak. As we record, yes. I realized, okay, if I'm going to diversify my funding. How do I get my message and the mission-driven work we're doing out there? And this highly functioning team that I have, which is made up of undergraduates, one research coordinator, fellows and trainees, helped me put together this website and have helped me start pitching the work we do to industry sponsors, to nonprofits. So what do I have now that I didn't have before? The confidence in these ideas the confidence to make this work and message public. And also I will say the approaches that you use in group coaching have made me think about group coaching and other purposes. So whether it's with working with your own team or in my intervention work too. I see how group coaching motivates one another and holds other people accountable and makes people feel safe, like you just mentioned.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. Absolutely. So first of all, all of these things, I love you have confidence and act on that confidence. You know what I mean? Like you created something and what I love that you uncovered, not just like your own skills, but your team's ability. Like all of a sudden you probably see your team differently now that you saw them come together and build this website. It's like, that's the feeling where you're like, oh, we're going to go far. Like you said, we small, but mighty. That's how you start to shift your view from like, oh, where I'm early and I don't have this and I don't have that. and this person has this. It's like when you can shift to like, what can we do though together? Like we have a mission, let's go. I just think that's such a beautiful moment. And I feel like it's kind of the downstream impact on your team. Cause I bet they love that too, of like making something and like being a part of it and being a part of the identity. So I just think that that is beautiful. And coaching really improves your leadership skills, even if it's not specific to leadership coaching, which we also do. But like, even before you get there, if you learn how to lead yourself better. And you have this experience where you start to like, you're saying like, you're doing the workbooks and you're starting to uncover different tools for yourself. And you're starting to see like, oh, I'm actually really good at this, or I know how to do like, you then look at the people you work with. And you're like, now I'm curious about you. Right. And all of a sudden, like, I don't know, I just feel like you're not the only person who's told me like, it's really revitalized my team, even though I was really working on me. I just love that so much. And then I was going to say something else, but now I forgot. It'll come back to
SPEAKER_01:me. Like maybe the community-based research and doing group coaching. Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. So yeah. Also, I've heard this before. People are like, you know, this group environment is very powerful. And it actually goes back to what you said, though, first of all. It goes back to what you said when I was like, what was different? And you were like, the group. Like I logged in and I was like, whoa, wait a minute. The vibe is different. Like you said, the questions being asked are different. And I think that, I mean, there are group models, but I feel very strongly that like if you want to make sure that you create the kind of environment that you are talking about, you have to curate the group. And it can't be something that is just like, click here to sign up because it's not about accessibility. It's about, it's hard to be in a group where you have people with different needs, like different problems. But when you get into a group where you have a similar set of like skill sets, you know, in terms of training and things like that, and then you have a similar set of problems and struggles, even even though everybody thinks their problems are unique, but then y'all get together and you're like, okay, nevermind. But when you do that, it's just like, that's the alchemy. It's like, oh my gosh, like we are all going to solve these problems together. And I think where groups fail is where you don't have that curation. So you've got people that are just like, even if they're trained the same, they have wildly different problems and honestly, wildly different goals, wildly different motivations. And that's why, even though people complain, we will not stop having an application process because if we can't understand what are your goals, goals? What are you trying to do? I mean, you have been through this, right? Like, it's not a quick click, click. It's like, tell us why you're doing what you're doing. Let's really get in. We have to make you do this whole assessment. Like, how are you here? How do you do this? How do you do that? All of that is so intentional to create what you experience, which is getting on a call and being like, oh my God, this is the group for me. So I will say, as people think about moving this into intervention, as you think about that too, I am so excited to think about how you think about curation in the work that you do, because I do think that that's an important piece of it. But then the power of the group is just like incredible.
SPEAKER_01:So I work clinically with a population that's largely Medicaid insured. It's unique in that I deliver specialty care to a primary medical home setting in the community, right? So people have high social needs, one of them being food insecurity, which you can imagine as a GI nutrition Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_04:Like all the things. Okay. So I'm so curious about what you would tell another woman of color faculty member like you, who might be also coming out of maternity leave, who might kind of look like right now, kind of look like a check, check, check box. Because I mean, of course, a lot of people are struggling, but not everybody. But who's feeling overwhelmed and or feeling like I might be doing this wrong. They just signed up for Get That Grant. What would you tell them to get the most out of the program?
SPEAKER_01:I would say you know soak up everything that is offered so what I mean by that is you know there are going to be times where you don't want to attend a session if you're tired or had a long day or you don't want to do all of the activities in the workbook but once you do them and once you deep dive into it you will never regret the work you put in and the time you spent yeah so while it can look overwhelming even coming off of maternity leave. I was like, how am I going to do this coaching program when I can barely get it together to leave the house, right? You know how it goes. And you had two more
SPEAKER_04:coaching programs.
SPEAKER_01:You had a lot to do. And try to get actual research done. But every session, even the office hours, the buddy opportunity, really you can make the most of it by leaning on this community, which is what people tell you when you come back from a parental to leave is use your village, right? Ask for help.
SPEAKER_00:So
SPEAKER_01:putting your questions, and I've never been shy to ask for help with the coaches or from my cohort members. I've always asked the questions. I've come into office hours and asked you questions. Yes, I love it. They're good questions. That's what they're there for is like, why struggle alone when other people might have answers and experience that could help you? So that's really what I would say is sign up, attend as many as you feasibly can of the offerings because because you will never once regret the effort or time that you have put in to the program and to yourself.
SPEAKER_04:Oh my God, mic drop. I cannot express to you how satisfying it is to hear that because as somebody who created this, who had two small children, was still practicing gynecologic oncology, doing super long complex surgeries, also getting a research program off the ground, also just having got a career development award, like I cannot tell you how strong one of the values that I had was that nothing is wasted. Like we're not wasting anybody's time. There's not anything I'm going to create that I'm going to ask them to do. There's not a single question I'm going to ask. There is nothing that is going to be like extraneous, useless, not really needed, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just love to hear you say that because that was so the goal. Because we do ask. It is like, listen, you need at least two hours a week. You have to actually do this work. But that's exactly how I want people to feel. It's like, okay, I don't really want to do it, but I did do it. And actually, it was really helpful. I'm like, that's it. That's all I want. It's like, it's not a fluff program. It's really, really actually, I think, pared down to like the minimum you need, but that is still a lot because this problem is a complex problem. You know what I mean? I think it's not an easy problem. Like give yourself an affirmation in the morning and put up a do not disturb message. It's like, it's so much more complicated than that. And it needs tailored solutions for each person. But the magic is that you all co-create And to co-create those, you have to do all the data gathering. You have to do all the reflection. You have to do all those things. But I'm so glad you feel like you leave with tools that are functional for you.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_04:Yay. Is there anything else you want to share before we wrap up?
SPEAKER_01:I think one of the coolest things is something one of my cohort members said was you can actually use a lot of these tools in your personal life. I don't know if people have talked about this, but for instance, one of my cohort members said that she purpose-montred her life. So her personal life, right? And I'm thinking, okay, so now I have a toddler. So flash forward in time, I have a toddler. Like thinking about productivity precision during toddler nap time. What can I do and make the most of that time? What is my energy management for my toddler? When can I, you know? And so it's not just for your professional life, though I think it would be amazing to try to teach a kid how to think through some of the frameworks you've taught us. I don't know that they have the emotional- I'm not sure they're developed
SPEAKER_04:enough
SPEAKER_01:yet. I mean, aren't their brains a little squishy? My understanding is that they're still kind of mushy up there. But at least in parenting, you could do it to yourself. Like how do I ground myself to figure my way out of this
SPEAKER_04:situation? I definitely do that. You know, I hadn't thought about it just like that, Alison, but I definitely do that. Like that concept of I'm going to spend time with you, but I'm going to think about what energy I have to do what. So instead of trying to force myself to do something I don't have energy for, I'm going to think about an alternative is totally one of the ideas around why productivity precision works, right? Because it's like, okay, I'm going to work on this project, but I'm going to work on an aspect of it I can actually do Friday at 3pm and not pretend that that's going to be like writing the best thing I've ever come up with at the end of the week. So that's a good point. Okay. I could talk to you forever. And it's not just because your name is Alison Wu. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast. Why don't you let people know where they can find information out about your lab.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So you can find information about our lab at www.wonderful. So it's spelled with a U and with two L's dash lab.org.
SPEAKER_04:Love it. Alison, have a wonderful day. Thank you for joining.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. Bye.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you for tuning in to the, your unapologetic career podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode and want to keep the conversation going, here's what you can do. First, subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts or whatever platform you prefer so you never miss an episode. Your support helps us reach more listeners like you. Second, I'd love to hear from you. Text us any questions you have about this episode or just to show us some love. The link to text is in the show notes. Don't be shy. If you're interested in gynecologic health, make sure to sign up for my newsletter, Dr. Chemidol and the Womb at www.chemidol.com slash womb. It This also comes out monthly and is a great way to keep your career on the right track. And finally, if you're a woman of color faculty in academic medicine or public health, definitely get on the Get That Grant coaching wait list. That's at www.getthatgrant.com. Thank you for being part of our community.