Renewable Energy SmartPod
Renewable Energy SmartPod
Smart Buildings Are Getting Smarter with James Dice from Nexus Labs
Sponsored by: EDF power solutions and PowerFlex
With rising energy prices in the news, there's never been a better time for building owners and operators to optimize their operations to save energy costs. With that in mind, James Dice, founder and CEO of Nexus Labs, stops by the show to discuss smart building technology. Ahead of NexusCon 2025, James shares his insights about technologies and trends that are advancing the industry and also cites examples of companies that leading the way.
Episode highlights
What Nexus Labs does - (3:19)
The latest trends in smart building solutions - (6:32)
Key data sets for Energy Management Systems - (11:22)
The buzz around power generation - (16:04)
Real-world examples of owners/operators leveraging smart solutions - (18:57)
What is the first step a building onwer/operators should take? - (21:23)
What's in store for NexusCon 2025 - (22:48)
"The BESS is Yet to Come" - (24:56)
A role for utilities to play in the growth of smart buildings - (26:30)
Smart solutions and remand response - (29:02)
James' bold prediction for the smart building industry - (31:33)
(Note: This transcript was created using AI. It has not been edited verbatim.)
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Sean McMahon
What's up everyone and welcome to the Renewable Energy SmartPod. I'm your host, Sean McMahon, and you know, this podcast often focuses on big picture things when it comes to renewable energy, stuff like policy, tax incentives, new technologies and gigawatt size power generation. But since our last episode featuring Sean Kelly from Amperon, I've been doing some thinking. Sean explained how increased energy prices, which so many of us are experiencing, might be here to stay. So considering that, I thought I would pivot and bring you an episode that focuses on what businesses and building owners can do now to try to alleviate some of those rising energy costs.
Joining me in a minute will be James Dice, the founder and CEO of Nexus Labs, as they say on their website, quote, Nexus Labs exists to move the smart buildings industry forward without the fluff. So rather than try to sell you solutions, Nexus Labs is a media company that has amassed a library of content, things like case studies, white papers and podcasts that building owners and operators can access to make their operations smarter and more efficient. Ahead of their NexusCon gathering in Denver in a couple of weeks, I wanted to bring James on the show to talk about that event and just hear his insights on the latest smart building trends.
But before I bring in James, just a quick reminder to check out our most recent episodes. I already mentioned my chat with Sean Kelly from amperon about energy prices. Before that, we tackled the topic of tariffs and trade policy with Jessica Libby from KPMG, and of course, we also did a deep dive on geothermal with Mike Richter from Brightcore Energy. So be sure you all give those episodes a listen. And as always, if you want a daily dose of renewable energy news delivered directly to your inbox, head on over to SmartBrief.com and sign up for the Renewable Energy SmartBrief, or just click on the link in today's show notes.
Right now, let's get things started with James Dice from Nexus Labs. James, how are you doing today?
James Dice 3:15
Doing great. Sean, well, thanks for having me on the show. Appreciate it.
Sean McMahon 3:19
Yeah, I've been excited to bring you on, obviously, this is a podcast about renewable energy, and you know, a lot of times we focus on the generation of all that energy, but you and your team kind of have a role to play with how it's being used, and I should say, how it's being used most efficiently. So talk to me about what you and the team at Nexus Labs do.
James Dice 3:38
Yeah, so I started my career as a mechanical engineer. Always like to start there, because now, you know, today we're a media company, but we started, the roots of of the company are crawling around in mechanical rooms and trying to make buildings operate better, and I saw the potential for technology to help us decarbonize buildings and shift the way that energy is used in commercial buildings, and I noticed that the media coverage was kind of like really high level and surface level, and I felt like it wasn't exactly capturing what's happening at that mechanical room level. And so I started the company as a newsletter in 2020 and today it's a full blown media company with the conference and all kinds of stuff. But basically, if you think about, if you guys are used to talking about generation on this show, maybe I could connect what smart buildings technology means to that sort of renewable energy and decarbonization movement. You know, basically buildings, commercial buildings use about 28% of global energy. People like to say 40% but that includes single family retsy, and, you know, it's about 30% of emissions, call it. And basically all pathways as a society to zero carbon require three things from commercial. Special buildings. And one is use less energy. Two is electrify fossil fuel loads, like gas boilers, things like that. Three is demand flexibility. So when the grid is cleaner, shift your loads from dirtier times to cleaner times. And basically you don't need smart buildings technology to do the first two but you do need smart buildings technology to actually deliver that in an ongoing operational way. So you need smart buildings technology to make a building operate as efficiently as it can. You need smart buildings technology to electrify, which we could talk about, if we want to, and you definitely need smart buildings technology to shift demand curves of your building to match it up with cleaner times on the grid. And so what makes this niche interesting, I think, to your audience, is that role in decarbonization. But when you look at the buildings industry. Smart building technology means a lot more things besides just decarbonization, right? Otherwise, we could just unplug a building, right?
Sean McMahon 6:10
They don't like it when you do that. They really don't like when you do that.
James Dice 6:14
No, you need a building for whatever it was designed to do, right? As if it's a workplace, you need it to provide a nice workplace. If it's a Walmart, you need it to provide a good environment for capitalism, right? So basically, smart buildings technology means so many other things besides just decarb it's really only one outcome.
Sean McMahon 6:32
Okay, well, I appreciate you kind of connecting where smart buildings fit into the decarbonization puzzle. So let's dive right into it. What are some of the newest technologies out there that are creating a buzz in the smart building world?
James Dice 6:43
Yeah, I think when it comes to trends, you kind of think about the outcomes that I just talked about. So one outcome is decarbonization. Let's set that aside, because I know that's going to be more of the focus of our conversation. I like to go to occupant experience, right? All buildings are focused on providing an environment for occupants. And I'll just go through these quickly so we can get to the decarb stuff. But the things that people are caring about an occupant experience are things like indoor air quality. People counting to understand how people are using different spaces, allowing the occupant to access their space with their apple. Watch things like that, then you have operational efficiency. So there's like, How can I maintain this building better? So you have things like leak detection sensors. You have software called fault detection and diagnostics that analyzes all the data and tells you when something's wrong, like you have a leak over here, or you have a fan that stopped working over there, there's drones for inspections, which are kind of cool. Now you have indoor and outdoor drones. Like, instead of going up on the roof and high rise in Manhattan, you drive a drone up there, check out, you know, take video, that kind of thing.
Sean McMahon 7:55
Let me jump in there for a second. So how are drones being used indoors?
James Dice 7:59
Yeah, this is a newer thing. So you might have a threat get detected into campus, and instead of sending a human, if you're worried about that human safety, you could send a drone to check things out. Also, there are automated drones now that can dock themselves. And so if you think about security guard doing rounds, and you you don't want to do that anymore, right? Or you want to save money, you would have a drone that automatically does the rounds on its own and redox itself in the ceiling somewhere. Gotcha. So those are definitely coming out. The final category is reducing risk. So you think about avoiding cybersecurity. So cybersecurity is actually probably the biggest trend right now and that a lot of building owners are worried about getting their operations shut down, or getting held for ransom, things like that, or just like getting your occupants data stolen in some way, right and then physical security. So video surveillance, analytics, that kind of thing, you can tell a lot from computer vision. If you have a surveillance video, you can do a lot of analytics on top of that. So those are the kind of, you know, broad brush overview of the trends. When you think about decarbonization, the main thing right now, I'd say, I think it's kind of like back to energy efficiency. You know, energy efficiency has been around a long time, but there was this period where decarbonization and ESG were very heavily on the minds of everyone in the boardroom. And that led to this, like, three or four year period where everybody was focused on reporting. It was like, ESG reporting and really high level, like, here's our carbon footprint, those sorts of things. Scope one, scope two, scope three, yeah, and I'd say it's not that that stuff isn't important anymore. It's just that when you look at our community, you know, and you look at the case studies that are going to be presented at our conference next month, it's much more focused on getting into the details inside the building again, whereas it was like that when I started my career. But it seems like that's back in style, I guess, and it's because they're. Driving back into real business cases and like, actual operational savings. And so you have trends around, I say trends because, again, it's like, it's like coming back again, it's like real time understanding of how power is being used. Better controls, usually focused on HVAC. And then there are software now that helps you plan out your retrofits. Like if you have a portfolio of buildings that you need to retrofit to electrify over the next 20 years to hit your zero carbon goal, there's software that helps you scenario plan that out and plan out those retrofits, align them with capital replacement cycles, and basically help you electrify faster and aligning it with your capital program. And then I would say that those are all siloed trends, right? Those are all like, you know, acting like the building is these separate things. But really what we're seeing in our community, the most forward thinking building owners are really thinking about all of this as a unified tech stack. So we have case studies from like Lockheed Martin and Goldman Sachs and quad reel out of Canada is a big leader, where they're thinking about their building and then their portfolio as a tech stack that enables all of these things at once, rather than just silos that that enable these things individually, so those are kind of the quick trends.
Sean McMahon 11:22
So it sounds like data is at the heart of all this, right? And so what are some of the key data sets? I mean, obviously there's stuff out there, you know, thermostat, temps, things like that. But what are some of the key data sets needed to optimize these energy management systems?
James Dice 11:38
Yeah, I like to use this framework that I came up with around 2021, timeframe. I call it the energy management hierarchy of needs. You basically every building has a utility bill, and you get a utility bill once a month. And so that's the first data set that pretty much everybody starts with. And you can do a bunch of stuff with that. And there's a there are a lot of software providers that automate and do a lot of cool stuff, even though your utility bill is very boring, there's a whole software ecosystem around just what can I do to help the building owner use energy more efficiently with just utility bill data? The problem is, utility bill data is at least 30 days behind, and it's a, you know, snapshot in time that doesn't really help you understand much about a building. And so the next like, step up the hierarchy of needs is basically real time metering, so the ability to look at a 24 hour period and see here's how the building, you know, went up and down over that period. And so you can figure out things like, well, when did we peak when did the building operator turn the HVAC on in the morning? And when did they turn it off at night? And things like, were they keeping all the lights on at night for the security guard to walk around the whole building? Like you can tell things like that with your 15 minute or one minute meter data, but you still can't actually do anything with that data, and so what you then need to do is move into the controls world. So if you want to change something about how the building uses energy, you have to get into the different control systems in a commercial building. And so the trends there are basically you're getting into if it doesn't have controls, it needs a controller, right? If it does have controls, there are now software providers that will actually sit on top of that control system and use AI to control it better, essentially. And so that's kind of the progression. And if you think about all the different data sets there, there's monthly utility bills, there's meter data, there's controls data, there's, you know, if you're going to control it, well, there's data from the grid, there's weather data, there's comfort data andor air quality data. And I think what people don't realize about commercial buildings is those aren't actually all one system, right? Those are all different siloed systems and different siloed data sources in your building. And so I think a lot of people from the outside looking in always assume I can just control my energy, and there's like an energy management system that I can use to to kind of control it. And that just really isn't true. It's a bunch of different siloed systems, and so building owners are grappling with how they bring all these different silos together. And that's the that's the challenge.
Sean McMahon 14:16
I mean, it seems like a market opportunity too, as well, right? Absolutely, absolutely anyone out there developing that kind of software, those kinds of energy management systems?
James Dice 14:25
Yeah, there are a bunch of different, what you might call buzzwords for the types of vendors that are bringing those together. You might hear digital twins. You might hear building management systems, which is a kind of a weird acronym that gets reused in a bunch of different ways. We call them data layers, though. So the ability to bring in some sort of software provider that's cloud based, and they bring all of this together, and they unite it with an ontology or a knowledge graph that sort of makes sense of all like when you bring all these systems together, uniting all these. Data sets, so that when you do want to control it differently, it's able to basically make sense of okay, that system serves that room, that system is being metered by that meter over there, and bringing all these systems together. And so there's a big trend yes towards that. And we have a whole, basically a whole track at our conference that's focused on these data layer implementations, because it's a big it's a big deal.
Sean McMahon 15:25
We'll be right back.
Just a quick message to let you know that this episode was brought to you by PowerFlex. PowerFlex saves you up to 60% on EV charging implementation. How? By optimizing your system with patented Adaptive Load Management technology. Learn more and talk to an expert at Powerflex.com or just click on the link in today's show notes.
And now back to my conversation with James Dice from Nexus Labs. And now, you know, this is the Renewable Energy SmartPod, and so our audience is quite keen on the power piece of all this data management. So what are folks talking about there? I mean, it seems like, you know, we're hearing more about, you know, DERs or things like that. So is it solar? Is it battery? You know, where's the buzz right now?
James Dice 16:23
Yeah, these types of questions are tough in commercial buildings, because there are so many different types of asset classes. You can think of it like a x and y axis, right? So you have small buildings to large buildings, like very simple to very complex types of you know, if you can think about like a higher ed or a hospital campus, that's about as complex as it gets, or you can think about the 711 on the corner, that's about as simple as it gets, right? And then you have all your different types of ownership structures. And so buzz really depends on where you are in that matrix. But I would say in general, most of the more sophisticated, bigger building owners, they don't have a whole lot of generation capacity, right? Parking Garage, parking lot, limited roof space. In most buildings, they're mostly thinking about storage and controls, right? And then you have the buildings that are like a like Prologis is a good example. They're coming to our conference to talk about battery storage, but if you look at their program, they have a huge focus on generation, because they have so much roof space. You fly over a city, you're going to see a bunch of Prologis buildings with huge, massive white roofs. And they're thinking about themselves more like a you guys might have covered this in the past, but they're thinking about themselves more like an energy generator now, and actually investing heavily on that side. So I guess it depends on the asset class, but we have a huge subset of our community, of the building owner side, that is trying to figure out battery energy storage right now, because it can do so many different things for them, you know, helps them with decarb, helps them with what I what I said earlier, demand flexibility and really controlling that demand curve, because there are so many utilities charging a lot more now for higher demand charges. And so the battery, energy storage, is being looked at as a way to sort of mitigate that increased utility cost risk. That said, batteries are surprisingly rare in terms of the actual implementations that are happening in big buildings. And that could be because of fire risk. It could be it could be a bunch of different things, but I'd say it's a emerging category, but not as implemented in complicated commercial buildings as it is and homes where you can, you know now, you can buy a battery at Home Depot and plug it in the wall, right? So it's a lot different to implement in big commercial buildings.
Sean McMahon 18:57
And then, are microgrids on the radar at all?
James Dice 19:00
Yeah, when you think about campuses, definitely, when you think about single building implementations in a city, less likely, yeah, yeah, campuses, all of our campus community members are thinking about micro grids, and they all already have utility plants centrally and so,
Sean McMahon 19:19
Okay, so you mentioned, you know, obviously campuses, yeah. Prologis, any other examples from real world business owners or just portfolio managers who are leveraging all this technology for real world savings?
James Dice 19:32
Yeah, we actually have realized, you know, it's probably three years ago when we realized, hey, basically all the smart buildings case studies out there are marketing materials that aren't necessarily helpful to the building owners that need to learn from them. So we've gone on a huge case study kick. And so anybody can go to our website and go to our content page and filter by case studies, and I'll just rattle off a few. We have a case study with. Mobile where they did real time metering and analytics, and it helped them avoid actually needing new data centers, which is a kind of a hot topic right now, because they realized that they had hidden capacity in their existing data centers. And so it helped them avoid a huge capital cost. Woolworths grocery stores, that's a huge chain in Australia. We did a case study with them where they looked at all of their refrigeration systems across 1000 grocery stores, and they saved massive refrigerant leaks. So that's a good one. Lincoln property company here in the US. This is just a very easy utility bill thing. They saved in one building 75 grand just from realizing that they could be on a different utility rate. And that's again, just software providers helping provide better analytics with the data that you have retail stores. So there's sleep country, Dollar Tree, maestrif shopping centers. We have case studies with all three of those basically around, how do I control my HVAC better at scale, and how do I control my age, fact to reduce my demand and respond to utility demand responses? And so, yeah, tons and tons of case studies. It's just not something that is sexy, really. You don't talk about it on front page news, right? But these things are definitely happening. Talk to your local energy manager at one of these portfolios, and they're doing stuff.
Sean McMahon 21:23
Okay, so I want to ask you about you know, what step one might be for building owner? And aside from going to your website and checking out the library of all the case studies, you've got their ears right now. They're listening to this podcast, what's the one thing they should do first,
James Dice 21:40
If you're on the building owner side, step one, I think, is to accept reality. It's basically like acknowledging that this decarb like the roadmap to decarbonizing your portfolio. What's required to go down that road is not how buildings are built or operated today. And so it's realizing that you're fighting against this huge inertia of the way the construction process works and the way that all the different silos inside of the operating organizations of our buildings, and you're basically fighting against inertia. And so you'd need a champion. We call them smart buildings champion, but you could call it whatever you want. You need a champion that has to be on the building owner side. Unfortunately, that's just where we're at right now, so that they can go between all of these different silos in the organization and sort of fight against that, that inertia, and that's basically what our community is. So if you were to come to our conference, we have 100 building owner organizations, and those people think of themselves as the smart building champion for their for their org.
Sean McMahon 22:48
You mentioned the conference, and you know, full transparency your conference is kind of what piqued my interest and made me want to invite you on the show. So what is NexusCon and what's on tap for this year's gathering?
James Dice 23:00
Yeah, so it's this year. It's October 6 through eighth in Denver, we basically bring together the building owners that are implementing smart buildings programs, the technology vendors, they're the exhibitors. So there's a full expo floor of, you know, all the vendors categories that we've talked about are represented in that expo floor. And then we also bring in the service providers. So the service providers is a really huge piece of the ecosystem in smart buildings. And so that's consulting firms, design firms, integrators, local contractors. They're all coming in because they're the ones that are tasked with installing and maintaining smart buildings technologies. And so it's those three stakeholders that are coming together, and all the contents focused on case studies. So we don't let vendors just do vendor pitches. We let vendors present. It's very academic style conference where they've submitted an abstract, just like you would at an academic conference. We allow case studies, but the case study has to be told by the building owner or with the building owner. And so it's very much like, if you're if you're a building owner, you're coming into the community and feeling like it's not just there for you to get sold to, even though we do have an expo floor and a demo stage and lots of networking opportunities. And again, it's focused on decarbonization and energy management is one track. And then we have operational technology, cybersecurity. That's track two. And then the next one is maintenance. And so if you look at all of the smart buildings programs that participate, the key is bringing these three departments together. And so if you want to really decarbonize a portfolio, you really have to engage the maintenance people. And if you really want to monitor your buildings, you have to get the IT people on your team, so that you're not exposing the building to a bunch of cybersecurity risk. And so what we do is kind of foster that, bringing those three groups together.
Sean McMahon 24:56
Yeah, it sounds like a perfect place, like I said, to bring, bring all the parties in under one roof. Have also got to admit, there was one particular session that caught my eye. We've been talking batteries, and there's one, I think you've named it pretty, pretty well. It's called The best is yet to come. So who's presenting there? I obviously it's about batteries, but what can you tell me about that session?
James Dice 25:16
Yeah, this one's about how buildings. Some people, this is a very niche part of our community right now, but some people are thinking about buildings as less of just passive energy consumers and more like active grid participants, right? So we have Prologis, who I mentioned earlier. They're like, basically presenting about behind the meter solar and in front of the meter solar and using storage to reduce grid dependency. So that's going to be a cool case study. We have Northwell Health, which is talking about what's called Grid interactive buildings, and so basically the same thing we've been talking about load flexibility. That'll be cool, because they're going to do case studies around thermal storage and hydrogen generation. So again, different types of buildings think about these things in different ways. And then we have the city of Madison. So the city of Madison got a big connected communities grant by the Department of Energy a couple years ago, and so they're basically showcasing the project they did with that money. So it's you can see multifaceted, different case studies, and so we package all those into a 90 minute session, and then we do breakout rooms with the participants to basically explore the content together.
Sean McMahon 26:30
And you mentioned how people are viewing best as a way for buildings to play a more active role in the grid. Where do you see that going? And I guess what I'm getting at here is like we're hearing more and more about how there's going to be this massive amount of demand placed on the grid by AI data centers and everything, and there's, quite frankly, a lot of folks worried we're, we're going to be able to provide all that, and if the grid can manage it. Do you think that utilities, in this case might play a more proactive role in kind of trying to get building owners or or large corporations to invest in Bess so it they kind of have that in their back pocket in terms of extreme load?
James Dice 27:07
Yeah, I do think that is where it's headed. Is that you have more real time signals on how the utility wants you to use power, and then on the building owner side, you have better systems that I that allow you to automate based on what's coming from the utility today, we kind of don't have either of them set up very well. So if you look at the utility side, we have things like automated demand response, automated signals coming from the utility side, but it's only in a few utilities nationwide, most of the building owners that we interact with, they may have different rates depending on time of day, but most of them don't, and so you don't have quite enough economic signal from the utility side to incentivize the building owner to prioritize that quite yet in most markets. And then if you look on the building owner side, they mostly don't have the ability to automatically do what you're describing because of all the technology hurdles I talked about earlier. And so there's a limit on what you can get from the building owner side, because it's mostly a manual thing right now. Like, if you look at what's holding back in commercial buildings, demand response programs, it's basically because it's a you're expecting a busy facility manager to go around and, like, turn off elevators and lights and stuff, and that's just not realistic, because that automation is not there. And so I think there's just a long way to go on both sides before you can sort of reach that future. But I do believe that's where this is headed, because it is the technology is there. Like, it's not like we need to invent something new to do what we're talking about. It's just a matter of aligning all the ducks, essentially, is how I see it.
Sean McMahon 29:02
Yeah, I guess, you know, I'm just kind of thinking about, you know, my own home, you know, I got a smart thermostat, and I signed up for a program with my local utility where, you know, really, really hot days, you know, I've given the permission to kind of take it over, and they'll, you know, come and cool my house, but then shut it off at peak time, five o'clock in the afternoon, whatever. I just don't hear enough about that in the CNI sector. You know, it's like you said, the technology's there, and I'm not sure is it? Utilities just aren't incentivized to kind of approach business owners with that. Because I feel like I'm coming around to we are coming around to a point where it'll just be a black eye for utilities if there's blackouts, right? And so maybe it's a solution that'll kind of either reduce or eliminate those, but I don't know. I feel like everything, everyone come together at this conference you're at, you put them all together and put them with utilities and kind of incentivize everybody to, hey, at least in the times of peak demand when we're really worried about, you know, heat waves, or, you know, these Arctic domes coming in. Like, maybe we can kind of find a solution to to be smarter about it.
James Dice 30:04
And I think it has to be a technology solution. Because, like, if you look at how demand response programs work a lot of times now, like the facility manager or the building operators getting an email the day before, and then they're going around and running their playbook, which is a lot of times in a binder, and it's very manual, like, I'm going to walk to this elevator and shut this off, I'm going to turn down my HVAC by 10% and it's like, none of this is coordinated, right? And so we need the technology platforms to start to bring the systems in a building together so that they're able to be automated as much as possible, and then we need the facility managers, building operators, the ones that are responsible for outcomes like comfort and indoor air quality and maintenance. We need them to trust those platforms, to take over the way that you've trusted your thermostat and the utility to send that response and control. You've you've taken that step. So the automation is there, the trust is there. That piece in most buildings today is not there. And we're making inroads in smaller, more simple buildings, like we have good case studies around, like Dollar Tree, you know, smaller buildings like that that have one or two HVAC units, and it's very easy to control. It's closer to a house, right? But when you get to that bigger campus, it's just a huge coordination effort today, all right?
Sean McMahon 31:29
Well, I appreciate you kind of let me just brainstorm on that a little bit. Yeah, so one of the sticks I have on this podcast is I like to ask my guests for their bold predictions. So when you get together, it's either say, next year's NexusCon, or maybe two years out, what are we going to be talking about?
James Dice 31:48
Well, we have a thing in the buildings world where a lot of people like to make jokes. You know, you hear people might stand up or sit on a panel at our conference, and they might say, I've been doing this for 30 years, and so it's the safest bet to say that my bold prediction is that we're going to be talking about very similar things next year, because throughout my whole career, it's been very similar things just tweaked a little bit according to the hottest piece of technology of the day. In all seriousness, I bet though, at next year's NexusCon. We have more case studies around AI, so that's easy to predict, because we have quite a few today, but I bet it'll it'll continue to get implemented and integrated into our products. I bet there are more case studies around building owners figuring out how to connect smart buildings technology to the very top line of the business. So a CEO might be saying things to their investors at a quarterly earnings meeting that is more closely related to smart buildings than they are today. Right now, it's kind of viewed as a cost center. It's kind of viewed as something that's in the background. And I believe that the most forward looking programs, quad reels, a good example, shout out to them. They've figured out a way to use smart building technology to actually increase quad reels revenue. And so I think that it's a tighter integration in with how buildings are operated, and the business of real estate is kind of what I'm excited about right now, and I think that more building owners can kind of follow in those leading programs footsteps, and I think we'll see a lot more case studies around that.
Sean McMahon 33:34
Yeah, that makes sense to me. Listen, James, I appreciate you outlining all this for us, and best of luck at the upcoming NexusCon and appreciate your time today.
James Dice
Thanks for having me on.
Sean McMahon
Well, that's our show for today, but before we get out of here, I want to say a final thank you to our sponsors, EDF power solutions and PowerFlex.
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