Inspire Someone Today
Inspire Someone Today
E136 | Rethinking Work | Rishad Tobaccowala
Unlock the secrets of transformation and leadership with Rishad Tobaccowala, a visionary thinker whose journey spans four decades of innovation and influence. Discover how his transition from the bustling streets of India to the dynamic landscape of the United States shaped his perspectives on questioning norms and embracing risks. Through Rishad’s experiences, learn invaluable lessons on adapting to change, the immigrant experience, and the relentless pursuit of growth in a world where digital and AI revolutions redefine possibilities.
Venture into the heart of the immigrant narrative, where ambition and resilience meet cultural adaptation. Hear Rishad’s candid stories of confronting the frosty Chicago winters and the nuances of American cuisine, all while navigating a career that witnessed the digital metamorphosis of advertising. From traditional marketing to the forefront of digital innovation, Rishad shares how immigrant perspectives fuel groundbreaking ideas and leadership, paving the way for new marketing paradigms in this digital age.
We journey through the future of work, where AI emerges as a transformative force reshaping industries. Rishad imparts wisdom on the necessity of aligning with emerging trends and fostering collaboration to harness AI’s potential. Explore the art of self-repair and empowerment, drawing inspiration from ancient philosophies and personal resilience strategies. As we anticipate the rapid evolution of technology, Rishad’s insights remind us of the power of human creativity and adaptability in crafting a fulfilling, prosperous future.
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And in a world of transformation, if you're questioning everything, you're more likely to succeed than if you're accepting everything. So one of the advantages I often tell people is if you move early and then the whole world moves, you succeed, even if you fall asleep after that. But if the whole world moves and you move later, even if you're better, nobody knows and doesn't consider you a leader. So I always tell people one of my learnings is sometimes you got to take risks and A, b, sometimes you have to be early. Being successful often means taking risks and being early Also. Sometimes failing is if you move too early and take too many risks. So the idea basically is the best gurus are people who can make other gurus. So find people who can make other gurus.
Speaker 2:So find people who can make you a leader, just don't find. A leader has the power to create ripples of inspiration in your life. I'm your host, shreekanth, and I'm thrilled to be with you on this journey of inspiration. New year, new episodes, new guests that's the promise on Inspire Someone today. Welcome back, my dear listeners. What do you get when somebody has four decades of experience behind his back? Nothing short of a lot of insights, a lot of wisdom. It's an absolute joy to have an author, speaker, teacher and an advisor joining us and sharing his life journey. It's an absolute joy to have Rishad Toba-Kewala on this episode of Inspire Someone today. Great to have you on the show, rishad.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you very much for inviting me. It's a privilege. I believe that the three things that make me happy is basically learning, because learning, I think, keeps me current. The other is teaching, and that is if you learn things, you can help other people, which I think is important. And the third is both learning and teaching is I also like seeing things in new ways, because I believe in many ways, if you rethink, you reframe and reinvent, you're more likely to succeed than not. So learning, teaching and reinventing Learning, teaching and reinventing.
Speaker 2:We'll touch upon all of those elements as we speak. Vishal, even before we get there, I would want to draw your attention a little far back your transition from India to the US. You graduated from the University of Bombay, mumbai as it is called now, and you're very closely associated with the Chicago booth. But walk us through your move from India. How did this transfer? Did you find fitting in difficult? What was those early days? What can you recollect of those early moves from India to the US and what has been your challenges of settling in? And also what recollect of those early moods I mean there to the us and what has been your challenges of settling in, and also what are some of those great moments well, I grew up, as you say, in bombay, which I still call bombay because that's what it was called before I left and I graduated with a degree in mathematics.
Speaker 1:I came to the university of chicago for an mba and then I got a job at a company called the Leo Burnett Advertising Agency where I actually spent my entire 37-year career full-time career. But it was the last time my card said Leo Burnett was about 1993. So for the last 27 or 28 years I launched new companies for Leo Burnett. We merged with other companies, we got bought by a large company from France called the Publicis Group and the final five years of my full-time career I was a chief strategist and growth officer of the Publicis Group.
Speaker 1:To your question about adjustment, there were three adjustments really. The first adjustment was when I came to the United States. One adjustment was obviously getting used to the cold here in Chicago. The second adjustment in those days, which is over 42 years ago, the food tasted terrible till I discovered Tabasco sauce. Now the food is much more international and immigrant friendly. It wasn't at that particular stage. And the third was also getting adjusted to the fact that in India you were taught not to speak unless you knew the answer and you were also taught narrowly. And in the United States you spoke whether you knew the answer or not and you were taught broadly. So, in effect, one of the adjustments was I knew a lot of math, I knew a lot of economics and I knew a little bit about history, but not enough. But I didn't know much about American culture, football, you know all these other things. So part of it was getting used to the culture, adjusting to the culture, adjusting to the weather, adjusting to the food.
Speaker 2:That's good and Rishan. What do you see as a template? You see a lot of immigrant families moving from just not India, from Asia particularly, and making it really big in the US. What are those things that helps people to be who they are? Are there any special elements that will unearth the potential there, or is it just the environment out there that helps people to kind of find themselves?
Speaker 1:Well, the first of all we're looking at a self-selective group. So the people who come to the United States or to the United Kingdom or any country that immigrates. By their very nature they come in one of three waves. One is they come as students and in order to get into these universities. Some of the best students from India come to these universities, so you've already got people who would be successful anywhere, okay. Second is people who take significant risks, uproot their families and are, by their very nature, very entrepreneurial and risk-taking. So if you don't come as a student, you basically say you know, I'm going to go and move there. Now, those were more in the 60s and 70s, when there were doctors and other things in the 80s. Third is you join your family here and you uproot yourself from India and you come to a country where you don't know anybody. So, by its very nature, you're looking at a self-selective group, a group of people who are more pioneering, a group of people who are more courageous and a group of people who might be more educated. They're different groups but they're interesting. So when they come here, you've already got a self-selecting group. Then you have three other things.
Speaker 1:A you come here as a student and you have expectations. You're taught well in India on how to learn and here you basically recognize how expensive the education is. So you place a great emphasis on making sure that your parents or your relations' money is not wasted. So you study really hard. If you come here as an entrepreneur, you and your family work hard. Many often.
Speaker 1:You know the entrepreneurs from India not all of them. Some of them obviously start software companies and everything else, but many of them basically start or work, you know, in hotels, motels, dunkin Donuts, subways. Okay, they work as families. They work really, really hard. So it's not like that the Indians in the United States all become. You know Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadella right, they're Indians who become everything or immigrants that become everything. And the other one is there's an advantage for all immigrants. There's lots of disadvantages. You look different, you have to adjust. Sometimes people don't like you. But outside of these three advantages there's one other advantage, which is an immigrant looks at things from an outsider's perspective. So they question everything. And in a world of transformation, if you're questioning everything, you're more likely to succeed than if you're accepting everything. And in a world of transformation, if you're questioning everything, you're more likely to succeed than if you're accepting everything.
Speaker 2:You touched upon a very critical element in the world of transformation and somebody who has seen this for over four decades, and more particularly the digital transformation, the way you have seen the advertising industry or the digital transformation that has happened in the world. If you can share some of the pivotal moments that shaped your journey, what would they be and what helped you to kind of make this transition?
Speaker 1:So I would say, when I began my career at Leo Binet, it was traditional advertising, but in order to get promoted to a particular position there were no positions inside traditional advertising I was given the opportunity to work in direct marketing, and in direct marketing in those days you basically had both A-B testing. You try to find audiences, you bought mailing lists, you cut down trees, you mail things to people. And I began to realize while I was doing that I also was very interested in computers and I bought one of the early Macs et cetera, and I discovered things like CompuServe and Prodigy in those days and later on, things like America Online. There was really CompuServe and Prodigy first and I said you know what if we don't have to cut the trees? What if we don't have to buy the postage? What if we can find people without buying mailing lists? And those people happened to be online. So I basically convinced my company to launch the interactive marketing group versus just direct marketing as a one person company. It was just me, not a company, but a group, one person. And over time I was fortunate that it was the birth of America online and that the web came and over time I convinced more and more marketers that they needed to do that, and it was, you know, five, seven, eight years before it really took off.
Speaker 1:But by which time, as it took off, I had become known as one of the people who were an early pioneer. So one of the advantages I often tell people is if you move early and then the whole world moves, you succeed, even if you fall asleep after that. But if the whole world moves and you move later, even if you're better, nobody knows and doesn't consider you a leader. So I always tell people one of my learnings is sometimes you got to take risks and A, b, sometimes you have to be early. Being successful often means taking risks and being early. Also. Sometimes failing is if you move too early and take too many risks. But what I basically did was I launched this company inside my existing company and therefore my risk was somewhat mitigated.
Speaker 2:So being early and taking that risk.
Speaker 1:And also looking around and asking questions. So I was working in a field called direct marketing and I realized that online marketing could be direct marketing, but without the cost of postage, without the cost of other things. I said this could be a better form of online marketing. And it turned out to be a better form of online marketing or direct marketing.
Speaker 2:And it's a very hard hard piece to have that kind of foresight as well. While you can kind of be comfortable with what you're doing, do a little more, but having that vision of, okay, what's going to pan out over a period of, say, three, four years ahead, how do you prepare for that kind of thing up even?
Speaker 1:well, I believe the way you prepare is you prepare by reading broadly, watching broadly, listening broadly you find that you know your inspiration sometimes come from places that you don't actually expect. Or your ability to tell a reading broadly, watching broadly, listening broadly, you'll find that your inspiration sometimes comes from places that you don't actually expect. Or your ability to tell a story is. You sometimes say, hey, this thing is like that thing. So, for instance, because I knew direct marketing, if I had not seen direct marketing I couldn't explain why I wanted to launch the interactive marketing group. If I was in traditional advertising, where I was basically advertising on the Super Bowl to millions of people, what sense would it make to go to a media that had no video at that time and that reached one or two people? It made no sense from that sense. But because I was doing direct marketing, it made sense from that perspective. So often I tell people is think outside of your own field, because sometimes the biggest opportunities and threats come from outside your own category, on your own field. So that is basically talking to people, listening to people, watching. That's one.
Speaker 1:Second is, eventually you are trying to convince people. Once you even have that vision, you have nothing to show because it's early. You can't say here's an example, right? So people always say I won't do it till there is an example. Well, there has to be a first, second, third, fourth example. Maybe you can be that. So instead, what you do is you tell stories about other categories where people moved early and what the benefits of those were. So you need to basically have the ability to think outside the box, but at the very same stage, you have to be able to tell stories. I'm a big believer that storytelling is the way you convince people, because when people are trying to do new things, there's no data, there's just storytelling.
Speaker 2:Yep, there's no and a half years.
Speaker 1:So 260, I get to five years, so it's exactly four and a half. It's getting closer to five years and four years.
Speaker 2:That's. Hats off for your consistency and dedication. So I want to kind of have you talk about where did this whole thought come from? The future does not fit in the contents of the past. What do you mean by that, and what is your word of wisdom for all of our listeners on this subject?
Speaker 1:so my philosophy is basically this what I began to realize is when I was starting my new interactive marketing group that the way my current organization was organized, how we were paid, who did what, where we hired, were all basically optimized for the current television and magazine marketplace. And I began to realize that many companies they try to do new things with the old models. So it's the equivalent of trying to fly with a train, right, so you can say, hey, the future is flight. But if your future is flight, you're going to have to design an airplane. You're not going to be able to put wings on a train and fly a train. You're not going to be able to say I am going to take off from a rail line, right, you're going to have to build a runway.
Speaker 1:And so anytime you see something new, it basically questions the old way of doing things. But the old way of doing things is also the way organizations are designed to do something. So if you are doing this thing, your entire organizational structure, your incentive structure, is to do this thing. Now, when you want to do that thing, often you have to completely come up with a new way of hiring people, a new way of working. So, for instance, we basically began to realize that in the traditional world you could separate the idea development from the production. So you could come up with a creative idea. Then you go to LA and somebody would make it for you. In the digital world it's all done on a computer One person comes up with the idea and then programs it and puts it out. So if you have that structure then it doesn't work in the old model. So that's the reason I came up with the future does not fit in the containers of the past.
Speaker 2:And I want to draw two elements of your newsletter. One you alluded to the recent newsletter, recent article that you carried out, if you can quickly touch upon that, the six keys to career success. And the other element, which is the talk of the town now, is we are in the AI age. So how do you see the AI age and the human inspiration element of it?
Speaker 1:Sure. So let me begin with the most recent piece, which is 228. And so for people who are listening to it, it's completely free. It's at rishadsubstackcom, so it's R-I-S-H-A-DS-U-B-S-T-A-C-Kcom and you can sign up and you'll get something. So 228, which is the most recent issue, basically. So 228, which is the most recent issue, basically, are built on six keys to success.
Speaker 1:And my basic belief is the first key to success which we've discovered or we've discussed, is align early with the trend. I aligned early with things like digital marketing. I aligned early with the rise of media. I've also aligned early with what AI is going to do. So that's number one. Number two, in addition to basically moving early, you want to basically also recognize that the people you work for are as important as the company you work for. So that's the second point, which is people who you work for will make a big part of your success as much as the company. The third is you want to raise your hand. Luck is important, but in order to maximize luck, you want to take as many. Luck is important, but in order to maximize luck, you want to take as many opportunities as possible. And then the fourth, fifth and sixth, you know, are basically things like you're not going to succeed unless people around you also succeed. So how do you work with other people who you can help and they can basically sort of help you, because those are very, very important. And the other is not to take yourself very seriously. A lot of senior people or successful people basically take themselves very seriously. So those are some of the keys to success.
Speaker 1:On your second question, I basically believe the following things about AI. The first is I believe even today AI is underhyped. So a lot of people say, well, ai is hype, not hype at all, it's underhyped. Why is it underhyped? One is because it's changing so fast and it's doubling in capacity every six months. So, for anybody who's paying attention, in the last 10 days Google has introduced five new initiatives globally utilizing their Gemini platform. So one they've basically obviously made a jump in quantum computing. But the other is they've launched Gemini 2.0. They've launched a program called Astra that basically gives you the ability for the machine to know where you are. They have launched a deep reasoning program called Mariner. They've launched a massive breakthrough in video creation called VO2. And they've launched a improvement in image creation called Imagine3. All of these three, five things were basically introduced in the last week, and all of them are, at the current time, better than anything that Anthropic or OpenAI have Now. Next week, someone else will come up with something even better. These things become better, faster and cheaper.
Speaker 1:So, as a result, we're moving into a world where, initially, computing costs went down to zero. Then we ended up with cost of distribution going down to zero. Just think about the fact that you and I creating a podcast. You are in India, I am in the United States. This entire thing would have required studios, machines, telephone companies, transmission trucks right 10, 15 years ago. That's what I mean by cost of distribution.
Speaker 1:Now, what happens when the cost of knowledge goes to zero? And I believe what AI is going to do is going to make the cost of knowledge go to zero. We're all going to have knowledge at our fingertips, anything you want, anytime you want. You're not going to have to go to a strategy and consulting company to find out the analysis of a market. You're going to be able to do it in no time by yourself. So in a world where the technology is doubling every six months, when knowledge is going to zero, ai is going to be huge. So that's my first point.
Speaker 1:My second point is, however, ai is not going to be a differentiator for most companies. It's going to be how the humans in the company use AI. Ai is going to be like electricity. You don't go around saying your company is better than another company because of the way you use electricity, do you? Or because you have electricity. Well, that's an advantage if companies that you're competing with have candlelight, but every company has electricity. Every company is going to have access to AI. The AI is going to come from 15, 20 different companies. Those are going to be a commodity in many cases. So AI plus HI becomes very important. So HI is not only human intelligence, but human insight, human imagination, human intuition, and so my whole basic belief is the future is not the ai is going to replace your job, it's ai plus hi is going to make you much more powerful, and I think ai should be named augmented intelligence, because it augments us versus artificial intelligence that's a very nice way of putting it across, I think, something for each to kind of look into.
Speaker 2:But what strategies can individuals or organizations adapt in the midst of so much of rapid changes happening to AI? You mentioned about HCI. How do you bring the interface of the two?
Speaker 1:Well, I think there are three key things you have to do. The first thing you want to basically do is embrace, adapt and complement AI. So it's very easy to learn about it. I've written a piece. One of my pieces is called how to Upgrade your AI Quotient in my sub stack. Read that and, as I tell people, read that, do that and you learn about this faster than going to any class or going to some consultant and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. And you don't have to do that. I tell senior people take an hour every day, do this for 30 days. You'll know a lot. Okay, so one is you got to embrace it. Then, as you embrace it, you'll start to say what do I do different in the future because of what I now know I can do. So how do you adapt your operation? You may want to do less of certain things, because the machines can do it more more of certain things, and then complement. Which is how do you actually complement?
Speaker 1:So, for instance, you know, many, many years ago, people basically said you should learn code and you should learn Mandarin. That's what people would say your kid should learn code and your kid should learn Mandarin. Well, your kids don't have to learn Mandarin. In fact, the Chinese are stopping to learn English because they're using translation on their phone. Ai translation and code is going to be increasingly. They're obviously going to require software engineers and code people, but they're going to have to be really, really sophisticated because a lot of the base code is going to be written by AI. So, for instance, on GitHub, which is Microsoft's you know, I mean, they right now have 150 million different people using GitHub to write code. The CEO of GitHub basically says by the end of the decade there'll be a billion people just utilizing, you know, github, which is like basically, the difference is this If you had to build a house from scratch, it would be very difficult if you had to imagine everything. But if you had to build a house and people gave you Lego pieces, it's a little bit easy.
Speaker 2:That's a very beautiful way of putting it.
Speaker 1:That's what AI is going to basically do. It's still, there are obviously going to be people who know how to use Lego pieces better than anybody else, so it doesn't mean that software engineers and coders aren't going to be important, but the importance of learning code or the importance of learning Mandarin has disappeared in the AI age. So that's the key thing. The second one is that's why my basic stuff is think you have to A learn about AI. Second is, once you learn about it, embrace and adapt. The second part of it really is to basically think about not only how do you become more efficient because you're going to be able to do things, not only how do you become more efficient because you're going to be able to do things faster or effective, but how is it going to change your very business.
Speaker 1:It's what I call existential risk. What do I mean by that? When the digital world came around, the newspapers basically thought they could keep being newspapers, but what they didn't realize is the risk to digital to newspapers wasn't that they could use algorithms to make their trucks go faster or to make their printing presses work faster. The risk of digital is it meant that there was no need for printing press or for trucks, because you didn't need a printing press in the digital world and you didn't need a truck to deliver it. It was delivered over the internet, right?
Speaker 1:So what AI is going to do is it's not going to take just your current business and make it more efficient and effective. Ai might mean that you have to reimagine your entire business. So one is you've got to obviously embrace, adapt and complement. Second is you have to think about how you reinvent your business, not just be more efficient and effective. And the third is you basically have to invest in training, including yourself and your teams on HI, because the reality of it is, if you don't train your people, a company with trained people will beat you using AI. I don't care how smart you are, you're going to get beaten.
Speaker 2:I think there is a world going on doing that on. It's not that AI that is going to take your jobs, but people who know AI, people who can use AI.
Speaker 1:Yes, but also what basically happens is the people who are going to lose their jobs first are people who refuse to use AI. The second group of people who are going to actually lose their jobs are people who use AI, but use it just to do the same thing better, because people who use AI to reimagine businesses, reimagine categories, are going to beat the people who just know how to do it better.
Speaker 2:So true, rishad, I want to draw your attention to the previous question, which was the six keys to career success. What really caught my attention in that particular article was this reference that you make what is called as a coaching tree, if we can quickly talk about it, the relevance of coaching tree and how business can take advantage of that.
Speaker 1:So you know the second point I basically make. The first point is align with the trend which we've talked about. I built my career by aligning with the trend, whether it was digital media, whatever. The second one is your success is very much based on who you work for and if you are successful people. Obviously the company you work for is important, but the person you work for is really important. She or he is very important because if you are successful people, they'll always tell you they succeeded because of people, certain people you know, and they describe those people as leaders, as mentors, as guides.
Speaker 1:They don't describe those people or coaches. They don't describe those people as bosses, managers, right? So as coaches and in the world of almost every sport. But the image I gave you was in the world of football. What people basically look is a coaching tree. If you're a coach, you have assistant coaches and you have players. Five years later, where are the assistant coaches and where are the players? So coach that builds other coaches or players that become coaches. So there's a gentleman called Bill Walsh who used to coach a team called the San Francisco 49ers. Today there are 32 teams in the NFL, 20 of the head coaches of those 32 in some way were connected to Bill Walsh. So the idea basically is the best gurus are people who can make other gurus. So find people who can make you a leader, just don't find a leader.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. So we have one guru amongst our midst now, so I'll ask this question to the guru. From restoring the soul of business to rethinking work, how has the world evolved? What have you seen from your lens? And talk to us a bit about rethinking work, and congratulations on your new book that is getting rolled out in Feb 2025.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the first thing is for people listening to this please go buy my book, because most of this audience is in India and the first day that my book is launched in the United States is Feb 4th 2025. The only country which will have it available, also on Feb 4th 2025, is India. Okay, it's going to be the United States and India, and I insisted on India because that's where I grew up and I got fed up of getting movies and books one year later, two years later. So I said, when I write books, it's got to be available the same day. It's going to be available in Europe in March, right, but it's going to be available in India Feb 4. So please make sure that you go buy. You know the book. It's called Rethinking Work and it's in addition to book form. It's going to be available, obviously, electronic form Audible, kindle Now, with that being said, my first book, which came out five years ago, was called Restoring the Soul of Business Staying Human in the Age of Data.
Speaker 1:It sells a lot well today because people read the subtitle, not a staying human in the age of data. They read that subtitle. Now we're staying human in the age of AI, which we just discussed. My first book ends with a chapter on AI five years ago, but it basically talks about the things that companies have to do to become successful, which is managing change, how to keep learning. So a lot of what we've discussed makes a lot of sense in the AI age.
Speaker 1:Now, the big difference between the five years ago and today are two big differences that have happened. One is AI has gone from being a speculative idea though there was a lot of AI happening five years ago, but it was Jack GPT two years ago that really gave a boost to this thing. Ai has gone from being interesting to being mainstream and everybody talks about it. But the second thing that's happened in the five years is we've gone through COVID, and what COVID did was it basically made people realize that in 2019, we were working pretending we had 2000 technology when we had 2019 technology. What I mean by that is, in March of 2020, companies could work perfectly well from home using technology they already had, and what that meant is, if you combine the fact that you can now, because of COVID, people can work from anywhere utilizing technology, and AI allows you to do completely new things in completely new ways. I think a combination of, and the way people were also doing in those days is they were beginning to recognize there were marketplaces, so they were basically utilizing when they were sitting at home. They were using Shopify to set up stores, etsy, amazon, right. People were basically saying, I can go, use this e-commerce grocery store to get stuff in here. There was a rise. So now what we have is we have a world, five years later, of new ways of working, everyone accessing marketplaces, a lot of people doing side hustles and side gigs, ai, technology and that began to make me realize that work was going to be very different. But what was happening to me was not to me, but I was thinking about it is what makes a human being happy. Okay Now, a human being is happy usually if three things are going right.
Speaker 1:If you ask me, there are three things that are very important. First is if your health is okay. Right, so if you're okay physically, health-wise, you tend to be happier than if you obviously are in pain, suffering from a disease. Second, is the quality of your relationships right. If you've got good family relationships or you've got good friends and you feel connected, you seem to be happy. Third is meaning and purpose at work Whether you like your work, what you do at work, whether you like your boss, how do you do work? Those are the three things. You ask someone I was happy. They'll basically say I'm happy because I'm physically happy, my family's fine, my work is good.
Speaker 1:Now the other thing that's really interesting is, as you get older, when people stop working, they get sicker faster, because work gives you meaning. And, at the very same stage, if you're happy at work, you tend to have good relationships, not only at work, but you have money to look after your family and you don't get frustrated. You don't kick the dog or cat when you go home. So, in many ways, while the three things, which are health, relationships and work are important, work is very central to the human experience and what happens if in the next between 2020 and 2029, work changes more in those 10 years than it has in the previous 50 years? So that's what my book is about that work is going to be so different, and companies, societies and individuals are not prepared for what's about to happen, and so what it basically has is my book has three sections.
Speaker 1:The first section talks about the five forces that are going to change work. So I'm going to convince you that work's going to be different. The next four are things that you have to do right now, like AI, like rethinking about how you think about the office, things like that. And then the next five chapters are how to rethink the strategy of the firm, how to recalculate the financials, how to retrain the workforce, how to reorganize the company right All of those things and people who have read it.
Speaker 1:It's going to be available, but they're advanced copies, obviously, and when I was writing it, I had CEOs and other people read it In 220 pages. It actually prepares you for the future. So it's a book for anybody and I've written it in a way that it works in any country, any job, any level. Okay, because it says these are the fundamental things. Now, there may be certain chapters that certain people might like more. So, for instance, if you're a financial professional, there's one chapter you might like more, and if you're not a financial professional, you might like it less. Right, but it's for everybody, whether you're a.
Speaker 2:I think it's a good antidote for us to kind of get started with the start of the new year. With so many changes happening around, how do you rethink work, reimagining work? So couldn't have asked for a better time for the release of this book, vishal. So slightly shifting gears. Here we are talking about work. Impact of AI. The future does not fit in the containers of the past. One area that is slightly different from what we have been talking about and very intriguing is the phrase the art of repair. Somebody listening to this might say, okay, where did this come from? And that's exactly how I felt when I kind of stumbled upon this particular article the art of repair, particularly the six pathways that you have described as part of this. So if you can walk us through that, give us some anecdotes, share some things that the listeners can kind of imbibe and start implementing it. Rishabh.
Speaker 1:Sure. So the way to think about this is that all of us as human beings don't recognize this, but we always need to repair ourselves because we are constantly being challenged, we're constantly being what I would say losing. You know, sometimes you basically lose and you see what happened relationships break, etc. So the thing was basically my thought was that hey, look, there is a big thing on repairing ourselves. And I basically said there are six ways of doing it. So you know, when anybody is like down, like let's say you've had a loss, you've had a personal loss, you've had a loss in job, let's say you've played a game and you've lost, like you feel bad, how do you sort of repair yourself? And to me, there are six things that I talk about. One is poetry, and I'm talking about any type of poetry. You know Indian poetry, kurdu poetry, hindi poetry, english poetry, but poetry, because poetry basically in many ways, as I say, finds perfect words in perfect orders and in many ways it's a form of religion and if you actually think about it, some of the best religious books are actually written as poetry. So one is sort of poetry. The second one is I've always found that water is a second thing, Like when our daughter was born and she used to cry, she used to put on water, okay, and she would like listen to the water, okay. Or you look at water. So if you see a body of water, you see a river, you see a lake, you see, you know the sea, you feel a little bit sort of comfortable. The third is to accept. There's a Japanese term called wabi-sabi, which is to accept that the world is imperfect, impermanent and incomplete. Human beings always basically look at the gap. What's perfection and how am I short of perfection? And then you basically get all worried about I could have, should have, would have, and you make yourself miserable. But human beings and human relationships are imperfect, incomplete and impermanent. Right, which is you will always make mistakes. That's number one. You are going to die number two, right. If you do this, that means you can't do that, okay. And so the whole idea basically is to recognize that. So Wabi Sabi is a sort of a recognition of that which is from Japan.
Speaker 1:The other one is a thing called Kintsugu, and Kintsugu is a very interesting thing, which is the reason you are who you are is in many ways, not just because of your success, but how you overcame failure. So the whole idea, basically, is people who are successful are people who have actually overcome failure, because we all tend to fail and in many ways, if you take risks, like you know, I can tell you that, okay, my career sounds interesting and it's great, but everywhere along I used to have setbacks and I figured out how to separate. So there's a thing in Japan called kintsugu, which is what happens when a jaw breaks or a bowl breaks. They put the pieces back together, but they don't put it together in a way that nobody knows it's broken. Right, we stick it together so it looks like perfect. They actually put gold between the places where it broke. So now it looks, it shows where it was broken, but now it looks even more beautiful. Okay, so if somebody just you know types it K-I-n-t-s-u-g-i kintsugi onto google and look at images, you'll see what I mean. So the idea is the fact that you have been broken from time to time, actually, and you repair yourself makes you who you are, versus something else.
Speaker 1:The other one is obviously gardens, walking around gardens. And then the last one really you know, in addition to that is when you are coming to an end, you're stopping a relationship, you're ending a job. The idea basically is not to leave it a half, not to cut, but to untie, because when you untie it doesn't cut you, it doesn't cut the other person and you can tie back again. So leave elegantly, as I basically say. And the reason I've given these six is all these six can be done by anybody anywhere in the world without spending one rupee or $1.
Speaker 1:Poetry is free. You can go onto the internet, right, and you can go to poetryorg and you can get all the poetry in the world. Somewhere there is a garden near where you live, somewhere there is water. If there's no water, start a tap. You can repair yourself. You don't have to go and get somebody else to repair yourself, right, if that makes sense, and you can be very careful about how you end things.
Speaker 1:So all of these things are, and it was a very popular piece, and it just so happened that I wrote it the week after Trump was reelected in the United States and out of my 30,000 people, about 15,000 people are United States people. The other 15,000 are outside the United States and half of those 15,000 people were very upset at the election, right, because half the country wanted one person, half the country wanted the other person, so the one half of the country was like needed repairing, right. And many of them were writing things like I'm never going to talk to anybody who voted for Trump Right. And my old stuff is like this is silly way of talking about relationships, like it's basically saying I'm never going to vote for anybody who chose the color red as their favorite color. Like why.
Speaker 2:I love you have articulated this one. How did you even kind of arrive at what you are at this? The whole subtitle of this is finding strength in imperfection and what has been your own practices around this?
Speaker 1:here's what happens is, every one of us, every human being, wants perfection, wants 100% success and, ideally, if we think really hard, we really believe that we are the center of the world and everything is right with us and everybody else is messed up. So I often tell people I don't need any law, I just need law to control other people. I'm perfect, okay, but we all think that way, and so one of the key things is there's a very famous philosopher called Schopenhauer who basically said we spend so much of our time thinking about the things we don't have versus thinking about the things we have. There's always the gap I've got promoted, but this person's got a higher position. I got to get promoted there. I have finally afforded to buy a car, but that person has two cars. Now I have two cars, but that person has three cars. I'm perfect, my kids are perfect, but this kid isn't doing that well at school and therefore I'm miserable.
Speaker 1:And my old stuff is well, think about the fact A you've got a kid. B the kid happens to be healthy. C the kid likes you. Now stop fixating about their grades. The basic realities, yeah, and that's really stoicism. You know which is basically?
Speaker 1:I always tell people. We don't know what we got till we lose it. So let's pretend and you know this, because when you lose something, let's say you lose a key, you get a dent in a car Then you realize you know what? I wish I didn't have the dent in the car. I wish I had the key. You always had the key, you always had the car, but you took it for granted.
Speaker 1:And so the whole idea is, human beings constantly look at the next thing and they don't care about what they have. Now, that's also the reason why humanity moves ahead. It's not like just being self-satisfied like a cow, but be from time to time, recognize that if you're going to be a pioneer, if you're going to try new things, you are going to fail more often than many people. And if you can't repair yourself, or, as I basically say and this is not a religious thing, but I basically say every morning when you get up, you can practice daily resurrection. So you know that's really from Christ. And where he died on Friday and he rose on Sunday, a good Friday, easter Sunday. So he was resurrected. I said you know, every night you go to sleep, in the morning you wake up. It's a new life Practice daily resurrection.
Speaker 2:That's a great way to kind of put it across For somebody who has accomplished so much, who has seen the world over decades. How do you build such perspectives and what practices does Rishad does to build on these kind of perspectives?
Speaker 1:Well, I believe there are four or five practices, and all of the practices are possible for everybody, everywhere in the world. So these are not practices that require being in a particular country, having great wealth or any of the sort. So the first thing you want to basically do is allocate an hour and a half or an hour every day to learn learn anything. In order for you to be a teacher, you have to be a student. In order for you to get better, you have to learn. So spend an hour learning. So I get up every morning at 4.30 and I study from 5 to 6. Not every day, but most days. So that's number one. Number two is try to make sure that you see lots of different dots. So try not to only be thinking about your company, your friends, your city. Think outside. I travel a lot, I watch a lot of movies, I go to a lot of places, I read a lot of books, I talk to a lot of different people. That basically expands your mind. That's the second thing you can do. The third thing that you basically do is find yourself teachers, right. Find yourself mentors, find yourself people who can teach you things. So I, in my book or my piece on how to learn about AI. I basically said here are people that you can learn AI from. I didn't say I'm the teacher of AI. I said you are the people that I pay attention to, you're the things I use. So I'm showing you who the teachers are. I might be a teacher that can point you to teachers, but there are lots of teachers and all teachers have teachers.
Speaker 1:That's the third one. The fourth one, to a great extent, is be very patient and recognize that it takes a lot of work sometimes and effort to get to a particular place. You know, malcolm Gladwell said 10,000 hours. I, malcolm Gladwell, said 10,000 hours. I don't know if there's 10,000 hours, but you need certain things. So, for instance, today, when people say how can you see these links so fast, I said well, it's 40 years of training and I still work and I still look at it. And the fifth one is to be persistent, and persistent means this thing, which is part of fourth, is people say wait, you have written 228 sundays in a row and I don't take sundays off for any reason.
Speaker 1:So you know, most people stop writing who even write weekly to this week because it's going into christmas in the us, so everybody stops writing the last two weeks. I write every week, okay, uh, because that's like fake. And the last one, which is very, very important, is and this is the one that you can half of this you can do. Half of this you have to be a little bit lucky at, but not completely lucky. One half of it that you can do is you want to basically try to find a world where people both like you and kick you at the same time. Okay, so in my particular case, like my wife and daughters are like that, so they are both my greatest champions and they're also the people who say like you're, you're full of shit. Now you don't even know what you're talking about. Everyone's telling you you're cool, you're stupid, so you need that a combination of friends or family who simultaneously are supportive but people who tell you the truth and brutally honest.
Speaker 1:And are totally honest and they sometimes lie to you. So when you're down, you think you're like horrible, they'll say you're terrific, right. And sometimes, when you actually are terrific and you think you're terrific, they'll say like you're horrible, okay, but just to keep you going. So hopefully that helps.
Speaker 2:Definitely helps. These are great six practices I wish, and I hope all of our listeners will implement it. Rishabh, we would definitely want to get you back on this show again Before we sign off. This podcast is all about creating ripples of inspiration. What's your Inspire Someone Today? Message for all of our listeners before we say goodbye to them.
Speaker 1:I would basically tell everybody who's listening you are much, much better than you think you are, and your future is very much in your hands, much more in your hands than anybody else's hands, though you're going to require other hands to help you. So you are better than you think you are and you can do much more than you think you are. So make it happen. Make it happen.
Speaker 2:You're much better than what you think you are. On that note, vishad, thank you so much for sharing these wonderful nuggets with me and my listeners looking forward to having you back on the show. Thank you very much, sir. Hey, listeners, did you know? Inspire Someone Today has a brand new avatar. Yes, you got it right Inspire Someone Today. The book is now available on Amazon. I would love for you to pick up the book, read it, share your review, share your feedback. Happy listening and happy reading. Until next time, keep inspiring.
