Inspire Someone Today
Inspire Someone Today
E149 | Compassion in Action | Dr. Abraham George
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What happens when someone walks away from Wall Street wealth to transform the lives of India's most marginalized children? Dr. Abraham George's remarkable journey answers this question with heart-stirring clarity.
From a near-death experience during military service in the Himalayas to founding a groundbreaking educational institution, Dr. George's path reveals how purposeful living can create ripples of change across generations. After building a successful financial technology company and serving as Managing Director at Credit Suisse, he made the extraordinary decision to sell his business at its peak and establish Shanti Bhavan – a residential school providing world-class education to children from India's poorest communities and lowest castes.
Shanti Bhavan isn't just about academics. It's built on three transformative pillars: excellent education comparable to international schools, leadership development focusing on communication and self-confidence, and human values like humility, compassion, and integrity. This holistic approach has produced remarkable results, with graduates attending prestigious universities like Stanford, MIT, Princeton, and Duke before moving into professional careers that break centuries-old cycles of poverty and discrimination.
The school survived a severe financial crisis in 2008 that threatened its existence, demonstrating Dr. George's unwavering commitment. Now celebrating three decades of impact and opening a second campus, his vision extends to creating 100 Shanti Bhavans across India – enough to genuinely transform the country by empowering its most marginalized citizens.
Dr. George's "50-50 plan" offers wisdom for anyone seeking purpose: dedicate half your life to professional success and financial resources, and half to using those resources to serve others. His most profound insight? True happiness comes not from consumption or status but from making a difference in others' lives. You don't need to wait until you're wealthy to begin – start small, develop a habit of giving, and build on it over time.
Listen now to a conversation that might just change how you think about success, purpose, and the extraordinary power of education to transform lives.
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Journey from Wall Street to Shanti Bhavan
Speaker 1Welcome back, my dear listeners. Imagine a child born into a world where the odds are stacked mercilessly against them Poverty, discrimination and neglect. Now fast forward two decades. That same child is standing on a global stage, educated, empowered and rewriting their destiny. This is not a fantasy. This is Shanti Bhavan. In this episode of Inspire Someone today, we step into the extraordinary life of Dr Abraham George, a man who has walked away from Wall Street to build a sanctuary of hope in rural India. His mission To turn poverty into possibility, one child at a time. What does it take to reimagine equality? How far can belief and education truly go? That's what we are going to talk today. And Sir Absurd Joy, Dr Abraham, to have you on this episode of Inspire Someone today. Thank you, sri.
Speaker 2I look forward to having this conversation, thank you.
Speaker 1Well, let's jump right in From Wall Street to Shanti Bhavan. That's where we'll start off. You had a remarkable journey from a thriving corporate life in the US to dedicating your life to the underprivileged in India. What was that inner calling, how or what was that spark that shifted you to kind of take on the journey that you have, Dr Abraham?
Speaker 2Well, the spark came long before my corporate career, when I was 18. When I was 18, I was in the Himalayas facing the Chinese. There was a war before my time there and I was sent up to an altitude of 14,000 feet above sea level, a place called Selah Pass. It's a famous pass through which the Chinese had invaded India, and I was sent up there. I was one of the first soldiers to go up there, officers to go up there to establish the gun position, so that, you know, we could defend ourselves.
Speaker 2During my 11 months there in the high altitude, where we were responsible for blasting rocks and digging and everything else and, of course, afraid the Chinese might attack us anytime, I was blown up in an accident, a dynamite blast. I was blown up in an accident, a dynamite blast, and fortunately by a fraction of a second, it's truly a fraction of a second. I detected that the detonator was just about to burst and the gun caught and you know all that. I turned around and jumped. While I was jumping, the fragments of the rocks and everything hit me and I was sort of unconscious and when I recovered I asked myself a very simple question why was I saved? Why did I detect this a fraction of a second earlier, and actually my thoughts during my time in the military drifted to the purpose of my life. I was beginning to think about what do I want to do with my life?
Speaker 2And I happened to read a couple of books One about Albert Schweitzer, who won the Nobel Prize for his service in Gabon, in Central Africa the Nobel Prize for his service in Gabon, in Central Africa. He went through very difficult times to the jungles of Gabon and established his hospital, a little clinic, which now is a major hospital in Africa. He lived with the wild animals and the tribals and saved them from so many tropical diseases. That life fascinated me. I thought it was one of those most romantic things one could do in one's life. And the other was a book by Bertrand Russell, the great philosopher, a modern-time philosopher.
Speaker 2He's no more, and one of his lines caught me and he says there is nothing right about war, it's about who is left. And the use of right and left again was a turning point. So these were the starting points in my life and I committed myself that I have to make a lot of money and only then I can do something, you know, something meaningful or bigger than I would have, you know, otherwise been able to do. And I managed to get out of the army, come to the United States, finish my education, start my work with JP Morgan and then go on to establish my own company. And that took well over 20 years. And all along that period there was a single objective, and that objective was how do I have enough money to do what I want to do? And that was the spark. And that spark was always there for 20 years or more.
Speaker 1That's a lovely start From the Himalayas to Gabon and then to the US, and in all of those journeys the True North remained consistent, constant of wanting to do something back. How difficult was it to kind of stay to the True North consistently for that period of time.
Speaker 2As you know, starting a company in the 1970s as an Indian arriving in America, it's not an easy job. There were not too many Indians in America at that time. I certainly was one of the very few brown-skinned fellows there and I started my time in America in Alabama of all places, the heartfelt of discrimination during George Wallace, the governor of Alabama, who was a segregationist. I went through all of that. I have no complaints. I learned a lot. And then I came to New York and started everything.
Speaker 2I did seven years of college and finished my doctoral work and then I joined JP Morgan, as I said, and the corporate life establishing a company at that time, and that part of the business was using computers to solve certain international financial problems which corporations faced. And I was one of the first to embark on it and it was a difficult period. It took me almost 15 years to get established and after that it was smooth sailing and I made money and we went from our office in New Jersey to New York, to California, to London, to California, to London, to Brussels. So it grew and fortunately I was able to make some money. But then I was getting old by then and I said I have not fulfilled my promise to myself, and so, at the peak of my career, when the business was growing so rapidly, I decided I'm going to quit, and I sold the business.
Speaker 2I was a senior executive managing director at Credit Suisse you know the bank, investment bank. I resigned from there too and arrived where I am today speaking to you, in a remote village in South India called Balaganapalli. That's where I established myself 30 years ago. So if you add up all these years, I'm not a very young man you know You're not an young man.
Speaker 1You're definitely young at heart and wanting to make that wonderful impact for the community. You had this vision of let me make more money and make that impact. Did you have an idea of what that impact would look like? And the other piece, if you kind of draw a parallel to the current state, many professionals today, including myself, grapple with meaning versus material success. Right, so you found that purpose. To fulfill that purpose, you said I need that material success, financial freedom Today, that balance. How do you find that balance is a big challenge. So what advice would you give to someone stuck in that dilemma? Or what did you do in your own case?
Speaker 2Each one of us has to make a choice. Why do we exist? What is the reason? What's the purpose for our existence? For me, making money was important, but that was not the purpose. A lot of people say the purpose is to make more money than what you made, you know. So that was not my goal. I was waiting for a certain level of money. That was enough. After that I don't want to hang around doing the same thing and make more money. So the purpose for me was I must contribute to two things.
Speaker 2You know, people can get themselves involved in many, many social ventures. It's their preference. Some want to be in, you know, taking care of the sick, helping get over AIDS. It could be any number. Somebody might want to do housing for the poor, clean water. It could be any number of projects. There are hundreds of projects one could embark on, but I chose mine, and mine was how can I contribute to reducing poverty among some of the poorest people? And the second goal I had was how do I contribute to reducing social injustice?
Military Service and Early Inspiration
Speaker 2During the 70s please remember I don't know whether you will remember whether you were born even at that time, in the 1970s, you know, india was a very different country. The caste system was very prevalent and 80% or 75% of the people were extremely poor. Famine was rampant in India. We were importing grain from outside until the Green Revolution came about, you know. So it's a different India at that time. And I chose those two fields poverty alleviation and the second is social justice. And the thought I had was this you cannot deal with poverty among the so-called low-caste until they are empowered in some way, they have the opportunity to come out of their predicament. They can't be in the same heart. Go to the local government school and learn ABC and expect to be professionals in their lives and change their situation. Thousands of years have passed. They're in the same place. How do we bring about? And you introduced me correctly.
Speaker 2You talked about education. I felt, having, you know, gone through good education in the United States, gone to NYU and so on, I realized the importance of education. I came with nothing in my pocket $8. You know, that was what the government allowed you to carry with you. And you come to New York Kennedy Airport and you don't even have money for a taxi. But anyway, I managed other ways and I felt that in order for them to have good opportunity, like you and me, they must have good education, have good opportunity. Like you and me, they must have good education.
Speaker 2And for the poorest of the poor, who don't have the money to go to a good school, whose schools are local, gun and run schools I'm not putting down government or anything. Things have improved today than what it was 30 years ago. They cannot get anywhere. They will be in the same place. They'll come back years ago. They cannot get anywhere. They will be in the same place. They'll come back. They won't even complete high school and even if they did, they won't get to any good colleges.
Speaker 2And therefore the way to reducing poverty, as I saw it, was through empowering them, through education. And once you empower them and they hold good jobs, then the social discrimination somehow disappears. For them, at least there'll be a God knows where they are. Today my kids are in Stanford, mit, duke, princeton. That's the kind of places they have gone to, in addition to good colleges in India, and today nobody knows what their caste is. They are big successors and they can transform their families. They move on, move into better homes, they eat better food, wear better clothing. Maybe their parents will never truly get out of their discrimination because they're old ways they can't change. But these kids and their children will never face caste discrimination or any discrimination of that kind, and they will be professionals. So my solution to the problem, the path to reducing poverty, is through social justice, and the way to social justice is through education.
Speaker 1What a lovely way to kind of look at it and bring in that particular change and for that education to happen, for you to have that kind of a thought process, that kind of a mindset. I'm sure you had your own early influences, your childhood influences or your adult life influences. Who were they and what were your life lessons by virtue of looking at these individuals or studying these individuals? What was those foundations that laid that value for you, that mindset for you, that mindset for you?
Speaker 2Well, the value system was formed from what I learned from Gandhi's Mahatma Gandhi's experience. I was really fascinated by his adherence to truth and his book on truth itself and, of course, nonviolence and all of that. I was born just a year before India became independent, so I went through there. Not like today's young people, I was one of those Gandhians. You know Gandhian principles, so that had a big, big influence. Then I was a good reader. I was reading books like Tolstoy, warren Pease and Anna Karenina and Resurrection and books like that, or Dostoevsky, crime and Punishment. Those books told you so many lessons and those lessons were important. I don't know whether today's young people at the age of 14, 16 read those types of books. I'm not sure, but I did read. And then when I became 17, 18, I was reading Bertrand Russell and Reverence for Life on Albert Schweitzer.
Speaker 2So the kind of upbringing I one of the finest schools you can go your discipline, your values, obedience, loyalty so many things you learn Because you have to lead the soldiers into battlefield and, in my case, to the Himalayas and so on. So that was a tremendous learning period four and a half years in the military as an officer until 21, when I finally got out of the army. I became an officer just at 17 years of age, so 21, and matured very fast. And you know you have to win the loyalty of your soldiers. They have to respect you. So, yeah, look up to you and trust you to do the right thing. You are there to protect their lives, you know.
Speaker 2So all that training grounds, and then the next training ground is over 20 years of corporate experience running your own company, and that's a different, you know, cup of tea experience. Running your own company, that's a different cup of tea. It's an entrepreneurial, risk-taking life and at the same time you really have to the same qualities, have the support of your employees, the loyalty, motivate them to do the right thing, work very hard. So it's slightly different, but still at the same principles. So when they're all combined together, spanning many, many years, you form your character in a certain way, and I felt all these diverse experiences had trained me to undertake a social venture.
Speaker 1Great. So the foundation is laid, experience is made. Now I can kind of connect the dot where the name Shanti Bhavan comes from your love for Gandhi and principles. I hope my connecting the dots is correct there, absolutely. So let's talk about Shanti Bhavan. It's just not a school, it's a movement. So tell us a bit about Shanti Bhavan. It's just not a school, it's a movement. So tell us a bit about Shanti Bhavan. How did you ensure this long-term transformation, not just a short-term upliftment? You had that mission, you had that goal and you knew that you couldn't see the results overnight.
Speaker 2Correct Today. What Shanti Bhavan is is not something I visualized when I first started. I explained to you my mission, but how do I bring up the children correctly? And that I found two or three pieces have to offer them the best education, the education that children from affluent homes are going to say international schools they receive. So I must be able to offer the same, if not similar, education so that they can get into great colleges. And I mentioned to you some of the colleges they are studying today for scholarship in the United States and in Bangalore, colleges like Christ University and so on. So that is the first ingredient. The second and the third are not necessarily emphasized by schools. They are looking for scores 99% or 95%, that's what they are, and parents are also looking for that.
Speaker 2From my experience, I was not the studious kid, I didn't score anything like that. I was quite happy if I got 70, 80, first class. You know I was okay. But I realized that my life, my opportunities, my growth came from a couple of other things, and the first is leadership qualities, your ability to communicate well, interpersonal relations, your public speaking, for example. You know all of those things matter and, of course, how you carry yourself, your personality. So all those things are important. I put it under one big name leadership or interpersonal relations, and that is something I must offer these kids, because they come from the poorest of work. They have no role models and I am bringing them up and I have to put them in the world stage. And unless they have self-confidence and self-esteem two things, those two things they will not succeed, no matter what grade they got in the exam. So I emphasized that. That was the second piece, and the third piece is a little tricky because it's about your values. Schools are not equipped to teach things like humility, generosity, kindness, compassion, honesty, a whole bunch of things. They are outside of the leadership type of thing. These are humane qualities, and how do you make a kid embrace all these things? And that is a tricky thing. I didn't know myself how I would keep on speaking to them about it. It's not going to do so.
Speaker 2I focused on all the people that I hired. Today there are 120 people working in the foundation. I spent a lot of time with them. I emphasized to them that they have to. Each one has to be a role model for the child.
Creating Shanti Bhavan's Three Pillars
Speaker 2You cannot tell a lie ever. You have to be humble. You have to deal with the children, you know, in an equal way. For example, we don't even allow the kids to use the word sir. They call me Dr George, they call somebody else Mr, So-and-so. There is no subservient way of addressing people. At the same time, they got to be respectful. They cannot stand there and boast about themselves. They have to be humble.
Speaker 2So these are the lessons that only the staff can teach. And the only way staff will teach is you have to train them, because they also come from backgrounds which are very, very different. They are used to the ways of you know life where someone in a higher position looked down and, you know, very abusive in some ways. We had to overcome all that. So those are the three good education, good leadership in the communication. Third, humane values. And that's what Shanti Bhavan does. That is what has helped all our kids to do so well. Practically all of them go on to excellent colleges. Why would Stanford and Princeton take our kids? First, they get over 95 percentile in SAT and other tests, number one. Second, when they come on interview, they outshine everyone, Everyone From their way of talking and their humility and showing their enthusiasm.
Speaker 2So what I have dedicated myself for the last 30 years. I am with the children from morning till evening, even night, for all these years. Two months in a year, or three months in a year, I go to America. We have an apartment there. I stay there in New Jersey. Other than that, nine to 10 months, I'm with the children constantly. Just before this podcast, I was spending time with them. They were performing some dances and singing and I was with them and guiding them. I don't know much about the arts, but you know, from whatever I know, you know it doesn't sound right about the arts, but from whatever I know, it doesn't sound right that type of thing. And so the child finds that you are with them, you really are a father figure, you really care for them, you love them. Money doesn't buy enough. Money is important, but Shanti Bhavan is built on love, love for the child, and the child feels love towards you, child trusts you and child learns from you not just the textbooks but how to be a good human being.
Speaker 1That's what shanti bhavan does so what a powerful legacy structure that you have built in, I think, for the people listening it out. I just want to kind of call out one thing you don't have to be a studious kid to make an impact. That is what Dr Abraham has demonstrated to the world yeah, I was not.
Speaker 1I was not, I admit, well, keeping at that, doctor, were there any moments during your long three decades of journey where you said that's about it, I can't take this any further, I give up. Were there moments like that?
Speaker 2in 2007-2008 when I suffered heavy financial losses. I had invested in beachfront properties that were wiped out with Hurricane Katrina and the plunge in real estate values. But subprime properties I had were less than 50% of the value. I had invested in technology stocks top Microsoft and others. Their values fell below 50%. I had to pay off whatever money I had borrowed from the broker. All these kind of problems. I was living very well. Mortgage was very high, so I had a lot of financial problems and there were moments in my life I didn't think next morning I would wake up alive. I didn't think so. That much tension I went through when I lost a good segment of my wealth Because we were running a cause.
Speaker 2Shanti Bhavan is only one project. I had four or five different projects. You know today may growing bananas on 200 acres to empower women of the villages around. I brought in equipment to test for lead in blood. India was using leaded gasoline and got oil companies to agree to introduce unleaded gasoline in the year 2000. Some people call me the lead man of India. I was successful in persuading the government and the oil companies to introduce unleaded gasoline.
Speaker 2I started one of the finest journalism colleges because I believe in your profession, in journalism, and I felt what is the reason for bad governance is a failure of the part of journalists to get oh, they can't, the government doesn't let them to tell this truth and make citizens aware of what's wrong in the country and fix it. So different projects I got myself into and run a hospital, by the way, rural hospital. I embarked on all these things and they were running at a cost of $1.5 million and I was dreading out If I didn't lose money. I could have done it because I had made sufficient money to do it, but having lost more than 60, 70% of my wealth, I was in deep trouble. Those moments were very agonizing because I couldn't stand in front of the children and their parents and say I have to close the school and go back to America and live there. I couldn't do that. I had raised their hopes, they trusted me and so it was very difficult. I didn't know whether I could. I cut expenses down. I did all those things and saved, and then my son joined me and we started on a fundraising program. Today, after 10, 15 years on a fundraising program, today, after 10, 15 years, that fundraising has helped, we were able to get back to where we were and actually more A second Chandibar in this open line. This Sunday is the inauguration of that Chandibar, congratulations. Yeah, second one, and it's also a 30-acre property the first one is also and with all the facilities for the children.
Speaker 2So, to answer your question, yes, there are so many other hurdles, you know bureaucracy, corruption, threats by village leaders to shut down your school because their children can't study. Only the poorest can study. So they feel that I am transforming their society, their way of living. One guy was asking me if you take all these kids and educate them, who is going to work in my field? You know, these are the kind of things they ask you. So I went through my life itself was threatened so many times. I broke my head, somebody threw a big rock at me, so all these things happen, but never for a moment I thought I'm going to shut it down and go away. I was always thinking about how do I solve the problem and with my son's help, I was able to overcome.
Speaker 1Hats off to your conviction and courage to kind of keep that mission going on come what may. So for people listening to this conversation, abraham, if they were to kind of visit Shanti Bhavan, how do they go about doing that?
Speaker 2Oh, very easy. What they have to do is Google my name Abraham for Abraham Lincoln, george for George Washington, abraham, george and you run it for so many websites and that will take you how to contact us, and there is a team of people who will then talk to you and find out the purpose of your visit and few other things and schedule the visit. So that part is easy. We have volunteers from all over the world. We have already had from 50 or 60 countries, young people, young people who are in college or just finished college. They want to serve one month to one year as volunteers. They come, some of them then go back and join medical college and so on, and, having served in Chandibaran, this is a plus for them in their admission process, and so we have, at a given time, a number of volunteers, and that is another way to be in Chandibaran.
Financial Crisis and Overcoming Challenges
Speaker 2One has to experience the meaning of service. One has to experience what it is the life of the poor. One has to experience what they themselves, their power to make a difference. If they can experience those three things, they'll be very happy people and one day they will themselves want to do things like I did and they will succeed if their heart is there. Sure, your brain and what you do to make money, all those things matter. But without the heart, without the desire to make a difference, you're never going to do what I chose to do. I'm not praising myself, please don't misunderstand me that you know, people choose whatever calling they have, but you must have the desire to help another human being.
Speaker 1I just hope this touches the calling of somebody who are in this line of wanting to make a difference. With that said, I'm sure you have loads of stories to make a difference. With that said, I'm sure you have lots of stories to kind of share. If I were to ask you to pick one story of a child from Shantibavan that continues to fuel you that you're very proud of, what would that one story be like?
Speaker 2There is a child in a village called Tata Gopay which is in Karnataka state. I don't want to mention her name, but she's a girl At the age of 12, her parents and grandparents wanted her to marry her uncle mother's brother and I had to convince her. She didn't know what a marriage is or anything like that. She was totally confused. She was torn between two things her love for her family and her desire for a good future. It's a big, big choice to make. You know for a child from a village like that. You know for a child from a village like that, and I was sometimes very loving, sometimes very strict. I was strict with the parents. Sometimes I wouldn't send her on vacation. I did everything humanly possible and convinced her not to agree. And that's a pretty tough thing in a village. You know, brought up in a patriarchal society in a rural area, very poor people. By the way, our father is an elephant chaser. He chases elephants coming into their village and eating sugar cane and other things. That is his profession. He makes a little money out of that.
Speaker 2She wrote a book called the Elephant Chaser's Daughter. It's one of the bestsellers Amazing book. And would you believe this girl, the Elephant Chaser's Daughter. I think it's got a 4.6 out of five in Amazon rating. If you Google it, you'll find this girl completed schooling, went on to do bachelor's in Bangalore, then did a master's in psychology, then she did a MS again another master's at Amity in Delhi and today she is completing her PhD in clinical psychology at Hofstra University in Long Island. It's an amazing story and she's such a wonderful girl, so humble, and people fall in love with her, anyone who talks to her. No arrogance, nothing, and she's totally committed to serving people who need help. That's one of my proud stories of her success.
Speaker 1What a story. Thanks for sharing that. So, wrapping up this segment on Shanti Bhavan, abraham, what legacy do you hope Shanti Bhavan to have and you leave behind?
Speaker 2I'm not sure I need to leave any legacy behind. I just want to do my work and I want to do maximum good.
Speaker 1You are a living legacy.
Speaker 2You know I have so much joy. I can't tell you how much joy I have from the children. Every day I get half a dozen letters, emails, whatsapp from kids. Oh, I am in Microsoft, I am in this company, I just got a promotion. I love you for what you did for me, and all those love letters that come to me from these kids who are now graduated from school and finished their college and working in all these great companies. I don't think I can ask for greater joy.
Speaker 2Now, the legacy you talked about for Shanti Vaughan, that's a different story. Shanti Vaughan should be a model for others. There are so many people with so much of wealth. I like to think that I can guide them. I like to think that I can help them create their own Shanti Bhavans, wherever they want to do, in India or elsewhere in Africa. Anyway, every human being has the ability to succeed if you give the opportunity. Sure, there are genetic factors. Some are brighter than the other, but, generally speaking, that difference is not going to make a huge impact on your ability to do well in life. May not be Einstein, but you'll still be successful, and I would like to think that we can make this world a better place, make this world a place where everyone has opportunity to succeed in life. All we can do is offer opportunity. We can't make conditions equal. That depends on the work you do. Equality of opportunity is a goal we can shoot for, not equality of condition. So I would like to leave a legacy and a model and maybe a few more Shanti Bhavans.
Speaker 2If India had 100 Shanti Bhavans, I personally feel it will transform the country Genuinely. Feel it will transform the country Genuinely. Feel it will transform the country. It will transform the discrimination that these people face. They will be productive citizens. They will enter the workforce. All of that will happen. Thousands of kids, you know IIT, half a dozen or a dozen IITs making a difference. Imagine all these kits moving into the mainstream. What impact India will have. And it hardly costs a fraction of the money you spend on an aircraft, a fighter aircraft. Each shanty bond will not cost the same. One-fourth I haven't calculated the cost of fighter aircraft is enough to start one Shantibhavan. So for 20 aircrafts we can have 100 Shantibhavans and that is the legacy Shantibhavan will leave.
Speaker 1That's a wonderful legacy and that's not a too far out cry as well to kind of make those kind of investments to create those many number of shanti bounds, right, great, uh, thank you so much for sharing that. We'll continue to move on. Before this conversation, we had a pre-conversation and you made a very wonderful statement or comment where you said you're working on a concept called compassion to action, the 50-50 plan. Tell us a bit more about it. What is that and why did you kind of come up with this concept of compassion to action?
Speaker 2well. You know people there are enough well-meaning, good people in this planet and when they see something sad, you know someone is suffering they feel sad, they feel sympathy. That's a great emotion. To be totally indifferent as opposed to feeling sympathy, that's not very good. So sympathy is very important.
The Elephant Chaser's Daughter
Speaker 2Then comes the next level, that is the empathy where, beyond sympathy, you want to do something about it. You're considering what you want to and you put yourself in the shoes of the other person. Oh, she must be suffering so much. Oh, her baby doesn't have any milk in the mother's breast. You know, if I give some food, she will eat something and there will be some milk for the baby. You know you are putting yourself in the other person's shoes. That's empathy, and I feel those two are not enough. You must actually. The third is also not enough, which is compassion. There you are really ready to do something, you know. But none of those things are going to make a heck of a lot of difference to the beneficiary, the person you want to help. Until you turn your compassion into action, you must act on it. Until then nothing has happened to the person who needs your help. So my point is compassion in action is the only meaningful emotion that will transform another life. So that was that.
Speaker 2Then you asked me a different question, but that is this 50-50 plan, and when I was 20, I was wondering when do I get involved in this thing and how long will I live? So I came up with this game plan and my game plan was half my life I should devote to making money and, professionally successful, make money and the second half of my life I should use that money the most effectively to help others. So I came up with this 50-50 plan, but it's not 50 years versus 50 years. I have no way of knowing whether I live 100 years. So what I meant by 50-50 plan, but it's not 50 years versus 50 years.
Speaker 2I have no way of knowing whether I live 100 years. So what I meant by 50-50 is simply half your time, work hard, professionally successful. Money is a good thing. Making money is a good thing. Being successful in business, whatever they're all good things if you do honestly, you know the old-fashioned way of honestly make money. But equally important is how do you use that money and in the process, you'll find purpose in life. So I was searching for purpose in life, and second half is where the purpose came about, and today I wake up every morning quite happy. That's all I can say about my life.
Speaker 1What a blissful state to be at waking up every morning, to be blissfully happy. That's what everybody strives for.
Speaker 2I think so. Everyone wants to be happy. You know, we don't want a sad life.
Speaker 1Dr Vivek, this has been one great conversation, from your early beginnings, your varied professions, to what you have done in the making of Shanti Bhavan. Okay, here we are with Dr Abraham in the Power of Three round. The first of the Power of Three question, abraham, is three life principles. You never compromise on Three life principles you never compromise on.
Speaker 2The first principle is always be forthright, truthful and have personal integrity. You know, keep your word. Don't lie to somebody and gain something that's given. This you can't violate. If you violate that, it's gone. The second one I feel very, very important is humility. Don't ever be arrogant, because if you are arrogant, all your decisions will be skewed. You will try to protect yourself, something you are not. And being humble, you will make good decisions. You will be motivated by factors that are not self-serving. They will be correct decisions, and so humility is a very, very important quality to have. There are so many others, but the third one, if I have to choose, is caring about other people. Don't be thinking about yourself all the time. Of course you have to think about yourself, to improve your life and so on, but you can't be self-centered all the time. You must. You must find a way to improve another life. You may start very small in the beginning and you build on that dream, and so compassion and compassion in action would be my third.
Speaker 1And during the service of others, so beautifully stated there, three misconceptions about poverty or privilege that people need to unlearn, see poverty is very complex.
Speaker 2People think of poverty as hunger. Yes, hunger is part of poverty. But think of the poor who live in broken down huts, leaking roofs you know, when it rains they are wet, there's hardly any space, there's no toilet. So sometimes, when I talk to poor people, they tell me more than food, they want a place to live, a place they can sleep. Housing is very, very important for them. So you know the quality of life. Quality of life is very important for them. So you know the quality of life. Quality of life is very important. So poverty can be addressed by not just feeding people but by improving the quality of life.
Speaker 2So one of the things our foundation does, we do small things. Give you examples of things we supply every other month to people Cooking pots made of steel, plates made of steel with a tumbler Blanket to sleep at night in cold weather, a mat to sit on the floor On and on Small things. This month we are giving them pressure cooker. They can cook dal or whatever they are making. So suddenly these small things improve the quality of their life. They are no more suffering. Of course, you have to fix the roof there is no leak or build a new house for them, which is more expensive. So do things.
Speaker 2So quality of life of the poor is so low and then they fall sick. Healthcare is very important. Then access to healthcare they don't have money to go to a good hospital and get a surgery. So all these are part of the complexity of poverty. Then comes another very, very important one dignity. You, just because he's poor, you can't treat them poorly, badly, you can't discriminate them. You cannot say they are lower caste or something else and be abusive. They have dignity too. The poor also have dignity. They have dignity too. The poor also have dignity and you have to offer them respect and treat them with humility and care and love. And so lack of dignity, lack of quality of life, food shortage, all these things, medical care, housing problem, so all these part of poverty and you have to address one after the other to your best of your abilities and you will improve their lives.
Speaker 1So wonderfully articulated. Poverty beyond hunger, so well said, and you spoke about small things. So, talking about small things, what three micro experiments that you would recommend for our listeners to live a life of purpose and meaning?
Speaker 2what three micro you don't wait until you become very rich. I said I'm not very rich, I wasn't very rich, I was rich enough. You don't have to do that. You can start small ways. And I did start, by the way, when I had my two boys they were four and eight said listen, you see the television program.
Compassion to Action: The 50-50 Plan
Speaker 2The people in you know many of the African countries. In the 1960s, I mean 70s they were starving, you know, and you could see the images of starving people. And I said, listen, we are living so in our affluent life. Why don't you guys contribute? So they agreed to, they agreed to forego their snack in the evening and I said I'll put that money in an account and you send it to a charitable organization serving that. So I'm saying you can teach your children from a very young age service and the small things they can do just for going snacks not the biggest thing, you know, but still it adds up. So one of the first lessons is start small from an early, early stage. You don't wait for getting very rich.
Speaker 2Um, I've been involved in small, small things. There's an organization called Link where I was involved in taking inner city children. They were black children from Newark and I was taking them out of very, very bad schools and putting them in private schools that were somewhat expensive but not very expensive, and educating them. But I only did four of them, okay, right now I got several hundred children. Those days I did very small, so you can start small and develop a habit of giving, develop a desire to help other people and see the joy that will bring you To see those kids graduating from school and going on to college.
Speaker 2That is a satisfaction you have. Satisfaction is not always coming from money. How much can you consume Beyond a certain amount of money? What is that it's going to do for you? You can't eat, you can't do it, almost you know. Are you going to lie on the beach and drink wine all the night, all day? No, your happiness comes from what difference you make in other people's lives, not just simply looking for power and importance and status and all these things to get rid of those things. And so I would urge people think about small things, small things today, and build on it over time.
Speaker 1Build on the small things. The last of the power of three round question, Abraham, is three children of Shanti Bhavan who have thrived and are role models. You don't have to name them, but you can just share. Who are they and are they role models for the rest of Shanti Bhavan?
Speaker 2There are children who are role models for their performance. I gave you examples. You know you can't get into Princeton University or Stanford or MIT unless you really work hard, right I mean. So they are role models for what they can professionally accomplish by hard work. That's one.
Speaker 2Then there is one kid who's insisted that I come with that kid to a slum in bangalore. It's called eejipura, eejipura, eejipura uh, it's a whole colony, like in bombay. There are slums then bangalore, there is a colony, and wanted me to see how people live. And this kid gathered pumpkins from our farm we run a farm and cut the pumpkin into pieces and also carried a few others, masala and oil and all that in a bag you know enough for some 20 families and took me there and we went into each one of those huts. I couldn't speak Canada to them. This child could. And this child spoke to them and asked them what is your biggest need? Blanket, what it is. I'll come back again. I'll get the money to buy the blanket I'll give you. And she did that. So that was a small thing, but what an impact on a small scale. It touched my heart I was very proud of.
Speaker 2Then there are kids who that's their desire, but they have not been able to transform what they want to do with their lives. They want to help their society, their community, first, not their own blood relationships. They understand that blood ties are not the only ties. We are all part of humanity. You are not testing somebody's blood before you help someone. After all, if you marry, you know your spouse doesn't have the same blood anyway. So what is this blood business, you know? So they talk about these things. I have every evening I have sessions with children you know the grown-up children and we talk about these things and their desire to transform the world a better place. They make me very, very proud and they communicate that to other kids that they have a moral duty. They are beneficiaries of someone else's generosity, someone else's kindness, and they have the obligation to help someone else. So you know, of course this third category hasn't done anything yet. They will, hopefully will do, but at least they're talking about it. That makes me proud.
Speaker 1So cool, so real. Thank you so much. That brings us to the end of the Power of Three round. Before we wrap up, a couple of more things to check with you, dr Abraham. One is you have lived multiple lives in one lifetime Soldier, entrepreneur, economist, educator. When you look back at all of these varied roles, what thread connects all of these?
Speaker 2Character formation. Character formation is very important. If you're a crook, you're not going to do any of these things. If you don't have a heart, you're not going to do any of these things. If you're going to be arrogant and not humble, you're going to be looking for getting garlands and awards and things like that. You're not going to do the right thing. So you have to say to yourself that I want to be a good person and then ask yourself I ask all these kids to open a diary and every day when they have an experience, write it down and also write your own definition of that virtue, for example, jealousy. What do you understand by jealousy? Because I told them jealousy is one of the biggest evils. When you wish someone ill, what good does it do? But you are a well-wisher, you will make friends, you will do something. So they have to understand the meaning of the various virtues and my life. I started maintaining a diary for many years, when I was hardly 16. So the character formation is extremely important and that is where families can play a big role.
Speaker 2You can't talk about the nation being corrupt and someone else is corrupt and then when you sit around the dining table, you talk about how you bribed the electrician and got the electric connection made. You know that is absurd. The father is talking about how you bribed. At the same time time he's talking about the whole country being corrupt. You can't be a guy who keeps a house very neat and everything is mopped and the first thing you do when you step out of the gate is to spit on the ground. So these are contradictions. You can't do these things.
Character Formation and Life Principles
Speaker 2So it's important you develop these qualities right from an early age and, fortunately for me, my parents were very, very particular about all these things. Fortunately for me, I went through a very disciplined environment in the military. Fortunately for me, I had built my business and I had to win over the people who work for me. I had, you know, I built my business and I had to win over the people who work for me, motivate them, lead them, innovate and so on. So all these pieces were very positive pieces that shaped me for doing what I am doing. And, by the way, what I'm doing is the most difficult thing I ever done, just not as difficult as what I'm doing today.
Speaker 1Well, you make a very pertinent point and important one character formation. And in the work that you have been doing, a lot of the kids that kind of interact with or either coming from broken families, dysfunctional families, how important is that environment creation around them and what are some of the things that you have kind of worked towards to create that kind of an environment, to build that character?
Speaker 2Environment is everything. Sri Environment is everything. The people who bring you up, the people who are your mentors, those who are your teachers, those who are your caregivers, those who are your teachers, those who are your caregivers, the friends you have. You can offer a posh school with marble floors and everything else. It's not going to change your character. It is the people, the human beings that will change your character. So the upbringing you have had, not in terms of material things, but in terms of the kind of people you deal with.
Speaker 2The second is your reading. You got to read good books, the lives of great people. I often tell my kids the lives of great people. I often tell my kids read biographies and autobiographies, not fiction. I'm not saying anything against fiction Fiction is always delightful and so on but you must study from the lives of people who have accomplished something great in their lives. You will learn one or two lessons you can emulate. So I would urge young people, people right from an early age, pick up books that are about great leaders or great humanitarians or people of good standing in society and what they have done. How they have done a good standing in society and what they have done, how they have done. None of them have achieved greatness whether it's Mahatma Gandhi or anyone without overcoming tremendous hurdles, tremendous hurdles and suffering, but from the end of it they have achieved. So read about them and that will motivate you.
Speaker 1Excellent. So, dr Abraham, what next from here? What next for Dr Abraham? What next for Shanti Bhavan?
Speaker 2What is next? I got very little time. I don't know how many years left, so I have to be in a hurry.
Speaker 1A good man like you will have a long life. You have the well wishes and blessings of many people out there for the impact that you have created.
Speaker 2Thank, you so much. Thank you, I have many unfinished business. I want to live a little longer and complete those things. But the trick is not so much what I do. The trick is how I can motivate others to do. I have to multiply this effect. So my next thing is, whether I motivate someone else to start Chandi Bhuvans or I motivate my own kids studying in school to undertake things, then only it multiplies. One man doesn't do these things in a big way. He might create these things. So focus on how you can transform other people, how you can motivate them and inspire them to achieve greatness. That will be a wonderful thing I can do.
Speaker 1And you mentioned about inspiration. This channel is all about creating repulse of inspiration.
Speaker 2Yes, yes.
Speaker 1Before you and I sign off, what's your? Inspire Someone Today. Message to all the listeners.
Speaker 2My message to your listeners is you will find satisfaction in goodness and focus on how you can improve the lives of other people, how you can reduce suffering within your own abilities. Sure, they'll tell you to be a professionally successful. All of that, Okay, do all those things, but don't let your life pass without helping others. So the message I have find your way to do just that you will have great joy that you have done something to improve another's life improving other's life, the joy of giving, the joy of making a difference.
Speaker 1As the adage says for a hungry man, don't give him fish, but teach him fishing. That's exactly what Dr Abraham has done and shown to the world through Shanti Bhavan. Wishing you best of everything, wishing you to create more of those Shanti Bhavans, and thank you so much for taking time and sharing your wonderful journey, the impact that you have created and, hopefully, the inspiration that you leave for many of our listeners to create Shanti Bhavans of their own choice. On that note, thank you so much, dr Abraham.
Speaker 2Thank you, sri. You asked me very good questions, allowed me to speak from my heart. You allowed me to make some good I mean points which I hope your listeners would appreciate. So for all that, I am very grateful to you. Thank you so much.
