Inspire Someone Today
Inspire Someone Today
E151 | The 3 Mantras from Neeraja - Reflect. Rewire . Rise - Part 1 | Neeraja Ganesh
Neeraja Ganesh shares her journey from a timid software professional to a bold community leader, offering insights on authentic leadership, priority-setting, and intentional career development.
• Started in the 1990s IT boom, doing basic code conversion, but approached even mundane tasks with excellence
• Transformed from shy and reserved to confident after being unexpectedly appointed team lead, forcing her to develop her voice
• Defines confidence as preparation, not innate talent or power poses
• Recommends the prioritization technique: "If you could only do one thing this year, what would it be?"
Whatever resonated most from this conversation, take one small action today. This single step can start a powerful ripple effect in your career and life.
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In the annals of Inspire Someone Today. Month of August is very special. You may wonder why, my dear listeners? Because August is when Inspire Someone Today, 5 years back, came into its existence. This August we are celebrating 5 years of Inspire Someone Today and to celebrate that, we have 5 episodes, 5 different guests. And to celebrate that we have five episodes, five different guests. And the guest whom we are featuring today goes with something like this she once feared speaking up. Today, she owns every stage. She steps on From leading software teams to championing women's empowerment. Neerja Ganesh has rewritten the script of her life and helped countless others to do the same. In today's episode, we explore how a timid techie transformed into a bold changemaker, how she builds communities that thrive and what it really takes to turn setbacks into stepping stone. It's an absolute joy to have Neerja Ganesh at this genital of Inspire Someone today celebrating its five-year birthday. Welcome to the show, neerja.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, ashrikad. I'm so thrilled to be on this show. Ever since you connected with me, I've been waiting for this day because there's so much that your previous guests have brought in, and I'm really hoping that I can add more value through today's conversation.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. It's an honor for me and my listeners to get an inside sneak of your journey, your life story. So we'll jump right in Neerja. What were your early years of your career like? In my intro I did mention that you did a big career shift some software too on your own. But if I were to kind of get you started from the journey that you've had, what was your earlier career journey like? What was the mindset that you carry at that point of time into your first job?
Speaker 2:My first job was at this company called Sonata. Obviously, I'm talking about the early 90s, when India was hit with the IT boom. What we call tech today, we used to call it software. You know the industry and I was studying at NIIT to do some courses in programming and ensuring that I managed to get a job and hopefully stay in the job for a few years because I wasn't very sure how the future was going to be. I come from a conservative family. My parents were looking for a groom to get me married, so I didn't know. I wasn't very intentional about my career. So the minute I got this opportunity at this company called Sonata well, I have to tell you that someone who studied at NIIT, who's paid a huge amount of money in those days, and, I'm sure, any tech skilling today, of course, everything is available online, but otherwise when you go to an institute and learn technology, it's quite expensive. So, with so much of investment that we had done, we were studying all the programming languages, all the database management systems that existed.
Speaker 2:Then the job that I got was to do a conversion Conversion from PL1 as a programming language, an ancient language. I don't think anyone uses that now. Basically, this language was used on the mainframes and convert the PL1 code to COBOL code. Cobol also is an archaic language, but some of the mainframes still run on COBOL. There was no thinking that I needed to do. There was no programming, forget it. There was no thinking. Also, there was an accepted methodology document where they had said if you get the syntax in the PL1 code, this is how you write the COBOL code. So, very blindly, we had to do this. Now I'm talking about an era where there were no automations in place and that's where they needed us to do this. And if we came across a syntax which was not documented in the ACM accepted conversion methodology, we just go to our senior and say this is a new syntax. There was no scope for research that we could do. We just had to tell our seniors and then they would figure out how to convert this syntax, because it wasn't a line-to-line conversion, right. Sometimes there would be those who understand technology. There would be these loops I would do while, loop and while do loop and all of that. So you can't just convert. So some one-line syntaxes had to be written as a paragraph. You know 10 lines of code, etc. So we didn't have to do any thinking.
Speaker 2:I'm truly saying can you imagine someone who was looking forward to be a programmer and build some fantastic systems doing conversion for nine months as the very first job that she had? I did that, okay. So when you ask this question about mindsets, I think the mindset that I had was everything is valuable, when I compared it to many mindsets of the younger generation of today. Of course I also craved for that kind of a cool programming job to build systems, but I did not say no to this. I went into the mindset that this is also going to be of value and this is going to teach me and aid me and help me grow into something more and something better, which it obviously did. I am where I am today and the 25 years of technology career that I had was, I think, largely because of that mindset.
Speaker 2:However small it would be, I did not, you know, just kind of leave it to a few minutes of a job. I said doesn't matter, I will review this conversion that I have done a couple of times to ensure that I have not made a mistake. So I still ensured that my quality of the deliverable was really fantastic, so that when somebody would do a code review, which is basically a check on my job. They could not find any defects. So I think any job, anything that you take, if you can keep it at the highest level and say I'm going to be the very best at this and ensure that there are no mistakes in this, it really helps you go a long way.
Speaker 1:That's a fantastic mindset. You would have definitely triggered a lot of nostalgia for the folks of 90s when you talk about NIT, cobol and language conversions, so to say. And you make a very great pertinent point about not being intentional. I think in that era it was more about not finding any job, getting a job and also thriving in it, then options that you had. Today when you talk about writing lines of quotes, maybe that's a passe, right, we might be thinking that we are in a different era, different age altogether. But that's a great point that you say not being intentional about it and cut that into the current state, right? So what is a compare contrast that you can do between that era to what it is today?
Speaker 2:Okay, that's a great question. So I think today, one is that we are spoiled for choices Okay, if not this, then I'll have 10 other things is what everybody thinks about. Right, that's one thing. The second is I'm talking about larger population. Of course there are also some who are first generation office goers, right, so they wouldn't have had the privileges that we have had in our lives of growing in our careers and we have given our children. But most of the people who do come into organizations have come with that privilege that they can say no to many things. They can, you know, just say, okay, this is not what I signed up for, so I'm walking off, right, and that's one big difference between then and now.
Speaker 2:We stayed on, we were patient, we tried everything, we probably tried to make it work. We spoke to the seniors, we spoke to the management. We kind of endured it. I'm not saying when I say endured doesn't mean that we've beaten up, but okay, fine, this is what the current reality is. I'm sure things will change. I will also work towards making this change.
Speaker 2:Rather than today, organizations are trying to pamper, if I may say that, their employees, right, especially after covid today, you know from work from home. They're trying hybrid and then they may want to bring everyone into the office. There's a lot of pampering that is being done for the employees so that they are able to come back Pampering in terms of the resources provided in the perks given in. You know, of course you need to ask what they need and kind of help them with those resources that they do need, but I think there's void for choice and that's a big difference. So what happens with that is they don't value.
Speaker 2:Today's workforce probably doesn't value what they're getting. So I valued my first job, which was conversion, and I did it to be the very best. Somebody else of today, even if they take the job, they would take it as okay, fine, I have 10 hours of work to do, 8 hours of work to do and I'm just going to move away. They're not going to put their whole and soul and think of something beyond the task. It's a task mentality that largely today's generation has, or today's workforce largely has, rather than this is my organization, this is my team, this is a piece of initiative that I can drive and get some fantastic results for my company. I think that's where the difference is.
Speaker 1:So that's a good difference that you're kind of pointing out to the workforce of today versus workforce that was not too far away, just about 2 decades, 3 decades back. We'll come to that in a bit. Before getting there, in hindsight, looking at your job that you started, were there any silent assumptions or behaviors then that you think about it now and say, probably these are some of the things that limited my growth? That limited growth is just not the vertical hierarchical growth, just the sheer nature of learning from the peer group, from seniors, from the organization itself. Was this something that, in hindsight, kind of reflect on it and say that wish this is what it is, or say that, oh, this was great and it continues to be great even today?
Speaker 2:I have said this on many know, many, many conversations that I was a very meek, timid, shy girl. I come from a very conservative family. There was no talk of career forget careers. There were no talk of go and work right, I finished my graduation and then I was going to be married off. That's that's how it played out and I was okay with it because I was so meek and timid and shy. I said, okay, my parents know best for me, so I was okay with that. So of course, I went into an IIT, I got into Sonata as my first job and I got married only after, when I was in my second job. So I was almost four years into you know my career. And then I got married because my father was taking his time to find the right match for me. It was an arranged marriage, but I stayed the same meet dim and shy in the office, also Because I really didn't think I had too much in me.
Speaker 2:I never thought that I had any leadership capability in me. For me it was about making a little bit of money before. Maybe I will not have the opportunity to even you know do something in terms of work. So I kept it at that, but I did fantastically Whatever I did. I did great, so I kept it at that. But I did fantastically Whatever I did. I did great, so I stayed on right. I was delivering good results, but there was no concept of growth. There was no concept of I can even do something beyond this. They leave me a job, I will do it to the best of my ability and move on, and I was like that for 10 years. So Sonata.
Speaker 2:Then I went to Manhattan Associates, which was also a programmer role, and then I went to this company called ANZ, their technology division, and another five years I was largely in a development role. And then there came a moment, a trigger it was an external trigger where they decided to make me the team lead of the team that I was working in. We were about 10 of us, equally qualified people technically, but in those days, leadership wasn't assessed with all the traits that we talk about today. It was about the person who's the most technically qualified, and I happened to be that and they put me in that role, which is when I realized that I need to speak up. I need to speak up for my team, I need to speak up to the customers if there is something which is not acceptable to us. I needed to really talk to the stakeholders because there was a lot of transformation that was going on. Work was getting transitioned from onsite to us and our team was being looked at as if we were not acceptable or were not working for the kind of work we were doing.
Speaker 2:So overnight, this girl who was so quiet and did not say a hi to the person who was sitting next to her had to speak up. And I spoke up because I realized I need to do the right things for the role that I was in, even if it was uncomfortable. I had to do it because there were 10 people in my team looking up towards me. So for them, I had to do it.
Speaker 2:And I'm thinking that if this trigger had come much earlier, or if this was seen by some mentor or maybe someone at home had said I think you know you should look at your career because you have some leadership capabilities, something could have been fast forwarded, but I'm fine with it. I mean, at least it happened after 10 years and it was an external trigger. Right, that role happened because my manager traveled to Melbourne on site, so they put me in the role Now, supposing that travel had not happened. I have to continue to be the meek, dim-witted, shy girl doing my wit and, you know, going home. And that is why today I run my programs, I'm mentoring and coaching for women largely Don't wait for an external trigger, because each of us has it in ourselves. It's just that we've not reflected on that and we've not brought that potential out.
Speaker 1:So for probably people having a conversation with you, they might not connect to what the shy tweet girl means when they have a conversation with you. Absolutely so. What does confidence mean to you today? Is it built or is it born?
Speaker 2:No confidence is built. All of us are born the same day. Uh, every child is baby is born the same way and then it is built by the circumstances that the child is put in. Maybe in the initial days it is the child's you know immediate family and what the what the immediate family enables the children in their growth. Are the parents very, very protective Like in my case, extremely protective parents, and I think to some extent I was a very protective parent to my daughter, and I'm not saying that there'll be some parents with care at hand, it's not that. But how much are you willing to kind of let go and allow the child to experiment? So it's a process of growing up, and then there is school, and then there is organizations and workspaces and neighbors and all of that.
Speaker 2:So confidence is built over a period of time and I think I have built my confidence with a very simple mantra, which is we always prepare. So, for example, we have this podcast recording happening today. I'm not just going to come here and you know, sit and say, okay, shoot the questions, I will prepare to, because I you do tell me there'll be these points that we've touched upon. So I'm just collecting my thoughts. So there's a little bit of preparation there. I would go and look up your previous episodes and say, okay, fine, fine, what kind of guests, what kind of questions, what kind of impact has happened because of those previous guests? I'd probably find out a little bit more about you and say, okay, I'll be more confident in this conversation, though.
Speaker 2:We are talking for the first time here, so preparation is important for anything and everything, however small it may be.
Speaker 2:The minute you are prepared, there is an inner confidence that is there when you are talking to someone or you are doing a job, because you've done that research, something new may come.
Speaker 2:You may ask me a very different question. You know there might be a very different kind of problem that will creep up, but whatever confidence you develop because of the preparation will help you to tide over that. So I think for me, confidence is equal to preparation, and that's why I always tell people that when you are invited to some meetings, what happens is your calendar gets blocked for that meeting, but it is your responsibility to block another 30 minutes, 40 minutes, 20 minutes before this meeting, maybe on that day or two days prior, to prepare and go for the meeting, even if you're not chairing the meeting. You may be just one of the other people who are going to sit through the meeting, but the fact that you got invited means you have to offer value, and you can offer value only when you prepare, and you will not get that time if it's not already blocked in the calendar.
Speaker 1:So that's, that's how confidence is played it's a great way of boosting one's confidence is preparation. You don't have to wait for an external stimuli for confidence to get developed, but your own preparation so I I just kind of, you know.
Speaker 2:Add to this during the women's month and because I largely address women audiences through my talks and workshops not that you know men, I should not talk to men.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad we're having this conversation today and there might be men also who have similar mindsets as some of the women, and confidence could be a challenge and an issue for them.
Speaker 2:So there was this particular company who said they want me to give a talk to their women employees on confidence, self-confidence, but they wanted me to talk about power poses, how to sit and stand, how to face the camera or face the audience and many external things. And I had to really tell them that just because I teach them a few power poses stand like this, dress like this they're not going to get confidence from inside and that's not going to kill it. So I told them that and that's not kind of a session that I do at all because I don't know what power poses are. I'm just myself wherever I go and maybe I'm really sitting and standing in a very different and a wrong way, but I seem very confident and people enjoy because I'm just myself and the confidence comes from within. So whenever somebody says oh, let's do a self-confidence or you know, boosting confidence talk I can never talk about. Of course you should be well dressed. Of course you know you should be well presenting yourselves.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm not denying that, but that's not what is going to do your confidence. Preparation and the content is what drives that confidence. And you did touch upon the current state, starting from where you started to where it is, and I'm sure you're talking the current state with a lens of how things have changed, because every generation deals with what it's been presented to Nothing good or nothing bad. It is how the opportunities, the situations, the circumstances are presented to the generation. Keeping that in mind, and since you interact with a lot of professionals across industry, what are some of the recurring mindset gaps that you see today? That, if you feel, how I wish somebody can focus on ABC.
Speaker 2:So I think one of the biggest mindsets that need to be corrected is not having a herd mentality H-E-R-D herd Following the herd and I speak about this in my TEDx talk also that I never follow. I mean, of course, my TEDx talk also that I never followed. I mean, of course, there was initial years, you know, where I did whatever. Everybody did science. So I did science, whether I wanted to do or not. Everybody wrote the entrance exam to get into engineering. I also did that. But after that I changed. I just followed my own path, whether it was marriage, whether it was job roles and you know, when I quit my job, it wasn't something which everybody was doing. So but I think largely it is following the herd because people have not thought through what their priorities in life are and hence what their priorities in career are. They're not thought through and being very intentional about how they want to see their lives, and a part of their life is the work and the job and the impact that they want to create. So they think, okay, fine, I think this is the method, because they see, shrikam, he's followed this method, it's worked for him. He's showing up in so many places, he's got so many followers, he's making enough money, he's traveling to all the places I think this is how I should also do it and they try to follow you or they try to follow whoever they want to, and that mindset doesn't enable them. What it does is, at some point in time, it just builds in frustration, it builds in fear, it builds in worries, because you're forever comparing yourselves with someone else and someone else's life. And that is something I want to really change, because people come to me with very simple challenges and I just ask them what are your priorities in life? I just start there, because half of these problems will not be there if you knew what your priorities were. And they'll tell me about four or five things, which are good. These are the five things that you need to have. But then, when I ask them, what is priority one, they're again confused, because they want the money, they want the family and they want everything. You can't have everything right. You can have one, two, three, four, five, so more of one and less of five, and maybe after two years you can swap it to say more of what was five can become one, but at any given point in time, you will focus your time, dedication, effort and hence the outcomes, to what was your highest priority, and in that order. So following the herd is, I think, the absolute wrong mindset. Can we just do what we want to do by understanding what our priorities are, and they're going to be very, very different to you? Know somebody else's?
Speaker 2:How many people have asked me, neeraja, you always come on others' podcasts. You go on so many stages why haven't you started your own podcast? No, I can do that because so many podcasts are there. I mean, it's not going to, you know, take me too much of time to set up something and get. Yes, because I'm very well-networked. I can, you know, put a series together, but I haven't found the reason for me to do a podcast, right. So I'm sure you have a why there, shrikant, a why because of which you have started a podcast, and then there's a book and all of that. I don't have that. Why? Maybe not yet? Maybe it will come later, maybe it will never come, but I'm not going to jump into the bandwagon of let me also do podcast because the rest of the world is doing. Then the fear, then the stress, then the worry, you know, will all come by so what you're saying is don't be somebody, be yourself.
Speaker 1:Having that priorities is helpful, but also get it that not everybody would have that clarity in the priorities given where they are in their own life journey or career journeys. And one thing that will definitely help a lot of the listeners is, given the fact that you do a lot of workshops helping people to look into clear those cobwebs and look into what is that they would want to do, what would you recommend for people to say that this is how you go about identifying your priorities. Don't be somebody else, but this is how you can go identify your priorities.
Speaker 2:To simplify things, I tell people to ask themselves one question If, in the next six months, or the duration for which we are setting up the priority and it can't be for the next five years right, a good duration will be one year to 18 months, some people who are really kind of in a very flux kind of a situation may want to set it for six months, but I think one year is a good time. So in that duration, if you could do only one thing I'm not allowing you, or the ecosystem does not allow you, to do anything more than one thing what is that one thing you will do now? So, supposing you know someone has built a house and saying that I want to kind of furnish it and I want to do the interiors, and the same person is wanting to go for that big promotion in the next six months, all right, now both of this is going to take a lot of time from that person, because when you're going for that big promotion, you may want to take on some stretch initiatives. You may want to take on some stretch initiatives, you may want to certify yourselves on some other you know things that are happening build visibility, network, a lot, all of that. So it takes a lot of that time when you are doing up a house. Oh my god, I mean, I'm sure everyone who's done a house will understand how much of time it takes to go shop, you know, and figure out to buy this, this is not okay, and all of that, but there's only limited available.
Speaker 2:So which one do you want to do? If you could do only one thing, if that promotion is the one thing you can leave the house in its state, in whatever state it is, but it is the promotion then that becomes your priority one. And then I say now, supposing I say you can do one more thing, what would that one more thing be? Then the house comes in. But for many people they know I have spent the last two years in building this structure Promotion can wait. I think I want to see because I want to enjoy life, I want to enjoy myself in this house Then its priority is the house and the second one will be the promotion. So it's a very simple thing, just deep dive to say what are the five things and five is also a big number, right, three is good enough. So it's not a bucket list. Great to have a bucket list which you'll achieve in the next 40 years, maybe, okay, and maybe you know one of those bucket lists.
Speaker 2:Maybe, like I always give the example of writing a book, you can't probably write a book in six months, months, maybe it'll take you three years because you do research, publisher, whatever, whatever. So you can bring in a small bit of it into your priority to say that in the six months I would have finished writing 10 chapters, or in the next six months I want to have ensured I have done all the research for this topic, or I would have. If I'm bringing in, you know, stories of guests, then I would have, you know, spoken to, you know, 20 of them. So then the book will happen in the three years. But you have a smaller milestone for that book, right? So don't make it a bucket list.
Speaker 2:Oh, my god. You're allowing me only three things. What will happen to the rest of my wishes? It will happen. It will happen the next year or the following year, but for for this year, three priorities ask the question what is that? One thing that you can do? Then, if I can slip in a second, then if I can slip in a third, you're crystal clear. And then you can go about living a life that you wanted. Things will happen.
Speaker 1:Now the clarity that you're bringing in. While many things seem to be needed, it's that narrow focus that will get you to the job.
Speaker 2:Right, right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And Nijit as part of these workshops. I'm sure a lot of the youngsters coming in there they had this sense of feeling stuck in the job that it is no longer feel-said. So where should individuals like those begin? What would be your recommendations to them?
Speaker 2:One is, of course, this reflection on priorities. Largely the stuck stuck happens because of that, and I largely talk to women and I think the stuck episode is a lot more with women maybe, but it could also be with men. So, for example, recently I was mentoring a lawyer and she told me that she's had a high flying career. A lawyer is largely self-driven, it's like a freelancing kind of. You may be a partner in a firm, but largely you bring your clientele and you kind of you know hands on the money. So it's not as if you know the organization is paying you a salary. So it's how much you want to do and you take credit for it. You get the reward for it. So till now it was fantastic because she had the energy and she had the drive and she enjoyed the challenges and it was great. Then, of course, marriage happened and then the child happened. Right Now the child is probably five years old. Now she feels drained out If she has to continue the high-flying job but at the same time she wants to ensure she gives time to her child, because she wants the child to be brought up in a particular manner. This is the kind of food he or she should eat, this is the time he should study, this is the time he should play, this is the time he should sleep, and she feels that only if she's around in the household then this will happen. So she's being stuck and she comes to me with this and my first question to her was okay, what are your priorities? And even after doing the prioritization exercise, where now maybe the family is at a higher priority because the son is just getting into school and she wants to establish a routine, maybe in the one or two years of the son's going into school, you know she will have to focus more and after that the child becomes, you know, self-driven. I've seen that with my daughter.
Speaker 2:So that's exactly what I did with Sneha, who's now 23. That because I was very heavily focused on academics. You know, that's the way we are. I think in our families that academics takes the top priority. So, and hence she was inbuilt, you know she wanted to get the stars in the hands. You know the schools would get stars, the star badges, to recognize the best students.
Speaker 2:But what I did was I used to set question papers for her because I couldn't sit and see what she's studying, because I was, you know in this career of mine which took so much of time. So I would set a question paper, she would answer it, I would look at the answers and then if there was something wrong I would only focus on that bit of it. The rest I knew that she was sorted. No, I can't keep doing this forever. So after a couple of years I said now why don't you set your own question papers? So? Which meant that she had to really read the entire lesson. She can't just use the backside questions and save question paper set right, because school today will ask you questions from any part of that particular book. So then she would read the entire chapter, set some questions on her own and answer that, and I would look at it. And after a couple of years I said forget this question paper. Now you have learned how to study, because you have to study the entire chapter and when you're studying you know you can kind of visualize what kind of questions could come from these places, right? So that's why I'm saying that maybe the first two years this lady needs to spend that time with the child to establish a routine, a rhythm, a discipline and tell the child why these are important. After that you know the child will be on their own.
Speaker 2:So first session went where I told all of this to her and I said fix your priorities, okay, and then come back to me in the next three weeks. You would have done your priorities and then we'll talk. Second session she said yeah, nirja, fix my priorities. But you know what, now I'm feeling I will not earn that kind of money because I'm going to take lesser number of clients, right? So I said but if your priorities say very clearly that you know tying with your son is so important, tying with the family is so important, if you're making a little lesser money, you just look at your priority list. Whenever you're feeling bad that I'm not making that much of money, look at your priority list, take it off If what you said, priority one, is being achieved, priority two is being achieved. When you feel that is being achieved, you feel very good. So not making enough money is not going to be so painful, unless, of course, you have big loans and you know other kinds of liabilities. So you know, know. Then the equation is so this is how I try to guide them. The stuck being stuck is only because you don't know what you want to do and where you want to go. The minute that clarity emerges, uh, once in a while it'll come back to bite you. Oh my god, you know, uh, if I had that kind of money I could have taken this travel. But that is when you look at your priority list. Okay, am I getting one? Am I getting two? I'll be very happy.
Speaker 2:And this is something that was told to me by the managing director of this company that I was working in, where I went through an organization restructure. You know, I mean, it's kind of a fashion these days to restructure the organization every two years. So I went through a restructure and I was hit very badly. You know my grades and salary and the role et cetera was very badly hit. So I was very annoyed and upset after 14 years in this organization. So I took some time from the managing director and I didn't know him, he didn't know me, but I said I have to tell you this that I'm really upset and I'm going to find a job for myself outside, but I have to tell you this feedback that after 14 years, this is what they are doing to me.
Speaker 2:So his first question was Neeraja, has your 14 years been fantastic always. Did you never have a low point? I said, no, of course there were low points. I mean, you can't have an always high point, right? Then he said why didn't you quit earlier then, whenever there was a low point? So I said no, see, this is an organization that has helped me with the perfect work-life balance, work-life integration. Okay, so that's what I wanted. I wanted to ensure that I'm able to deliver to the company, but I can also spend time with my family, and that's this organization enabled me very well.
Speaker 2:So even when there were a little bit of you know downs, I didn't really think about leaving. So he said what has changed now? And he said can you go back? Have you had the conversation with your family about this? So I said see my in-laws, they will not understand this, so there's no point in talking to them. My husband he's not going to give me any advice because tomorrow I will go back and say you told me this, that's right. So he'll say do what you have to do, and my daughter is very young, so she will not know. So I said no, no, no. It is so important to have all conversations with family members. So what if your daughter is young. Just ask her this question Do you want a mama who comes home at 6 in the evening or do you want a mama who comes at 10 o'clock in the night? It will give you some insights about how your life will change, because there is no guarantee. When you go into the other organization it's going to give you this work-life balance which you're treasuring here. So, yes, work-life balance is your highest priority Currently. You know there is a bit of a blip in the role and all of that, which we can always fix. But when you go outside to another organization, maybe your priority one itself gets impacted.
Speaker 2:And he told me he came from a services company to this which is a GCC. Today we call it the GCC right. So you know, services company have a very different kind of a high. You're always, you know, looking at challenges, projects, services, customers While in the GCC. I have left the GCC world at least 10 plus years back, but it's a little more slower because there's only one client that you're working for. So it's kind of predictable.
Speaker 2:And he said I hate it here. He was a managing director. He said I hate it here, he was a managing director. He said I hate it here because he came from a services company. But he said I made a very conscious choice because I was not getting any time with my family in that organization. So I wrote down this in my priority list Priority number is family, two is something and three is this. So on the days when I'm so upset with this with a day in the office, I go back, I open the cupboard, I bring out the priority list and look at it and say did I have good time with my family today? And that will bring me to a soothing space and I'll forget the bad day at work. So I think that is important. It sounds very small, the prioritization, but it is really huge in terms of the impact, in terms of decisions you make and how it carries you forward oh, it was so beautifully depicted.
Speaker 1:It kind of helps you to get your centering right, correct, right.
Speaker 1:Once you write it down, you know what you are kind of running behind yeah, absolutely, absolutely so, as we are talking all of this Neerja organizations, how does so, as we are talking all of this Nirja organizations, how does the mindset shift and change? A very critical element of this, more so in current state than any other way, is the culture of organization. It means a whole lot for everybody who is part of that organization. So, given the work that you do, I have a very hypothetical question, but you'll get the gist of where I'm kind of getting to is if you were to get 15 minutes with CEO of every company in the country, what would you tell them?
Speaker 2:I think it is very important for everyone to draw out the big picture to the employees of their company. Whether you have a one person employee, you know, for entrepreneurs like us, we may have an assistant. Maybe you know who's also a part time assistant because we can't afford, you know, a full time assistant. But if I were to give the big picture and CEOs of large companies having 10,000, 20,000, 100,000 people, if they can paint the big picture vision of this organization to enable the team and then the organization towards that big picture, you don't have to then bother about anything. This person will go all out to deliver the kind of results that you want from him or her. The KPIs need not be written. The KPIs will not direct him. It is that big picture vision and most leaders don't do that. Most leaders don't do that or they are not able to communicate it in a fashion that is understood by everyone else. This is your job. Just focus on that. You don't worry about everything else. You know and I always give this example of in those good old days we used to have this job of filling excel sheets. Today, of course, we have, you know, a google sheet and everyone can, you know, just fill that data. But in those days we have an excel sheet and nirja would be appointed as get this excel filled by 20 people. So I'll go with that, except to every person hey, fill this, fill this, fill this, because they will use this data that is collected, for some, say, off-site, know that they are planning, or some travel some. You know how many buses do we want to transport people? So big thing that they are planning, but they need some data. First of all. I hate this job Because to follow up people with people to fill the Excel sheet and nobody create will look at it as a priority. Right After 20 follow-ups, they will fill it up in some random manner, which will not even be useful. But if somebody were to tell me, you know, neerja, this particular excel sheet that I'm going to fill up is going to help me determine whether we should move from a hybrid model to fully work from office. Now I understand that there is a big impact with the data that is coming into this excel, so I will look at it and I'll say I think we are missing out two fields. I'll go beyond just using it as a task. I think we need two more fields to be captured in this, to be able to make that decision. So I've added my value and then when I'm presenting this to each person, they will make it the priority one to fill it okay. So the big picture is a very, very essential thing. So ceos have to start and then it has to kind of come down and that is mandatory.
Speaker 2:The second thing that I will definitely want all CEOs to consider is to build intrapreneurship within the organization, and that's like the Googles of the world have done that right. They give 20% of every person's time in a week to just do something that they think is needed to be done, not what projects that they want to run for themselves. But they may have identified a pain point, they may have identified a need for another tool, which is not a requirement from the organization, but this person feels that I think we need to develop a new tool. So that's our intrapreneurship. Just like how you would be an entrepreneur running your own venture. Can you give that kind of freedom for the person to try and develop something. Creativity, innovation and everything will flourish and that's when you can build products and maybe elevate your services and beat up the competition right, and the person also feels so very good, because now he's not just working for whatever the organization's vision is. He or she is able to contribute in a meaningful manner, because the person feels that their voices are heard and there's an impact.
Speaker 2:And the third one I have to say is diversity and inclusion. And it's not necessarily only women. Diversity is of different kinds of diversity, but diversity is mostly a checkbox. I can always hire 50 women, 50 men and make it 50, 50 percent. Right the gender? There's no gender gap. But for the women and the men and everybody else to thrive, inclusion is a must are. Are we including everyone? I have hired you. So I can give a quick story here.
Speaker 2:When I was hired in Sonata, my first job, I was still a student. I was still studying at NIIT. Now in Sonata they made us work in shifts because those days computers were very limited. Even in companies they were limited. At home we didn't have any computers. So they put me in the morning shift from seven to three and there was someone else who came after three and took away my computer for that book and my classes were from three to five. So I could have made this work. But you know we didn't have computers at home. So in two hours you can't really learn anything.
Speaker 2:So we used to kind of sit around in the institute trying to get a free, say, a computer which is not being used maybe the faculty member is absent, maybe the person is absent you know who's going to use the lab for the two hours and then you would practice. So when this um seven to three happened, I knew that I can't then go to niit in the morning hours. Then three to five is my class. So I had to only look for some spare PC for practice from five to nine, because there were only four more hours left and maybe I will not get a spare PC in those hours, right? So I was really worried about this.
Speaker 2:So I actually spoke to the senior management saying that see, I can work, that's not an issue, but I have this problem. I didn't have a solution for it and it was, you know, not my manager, but my manager's manager. After two days she came back and told me we're going to make an exception for you. We are going to give you a dedicated computer so you don't have to work in shifts. You can come whenever, you can go whenever. So you know you find practice time. You finish that and come here and work as long as you finish the work given to you for the week by the Sunday, right? So it's up to you, you manage your time and you finish it, and it should be good quality work.
Speaker 2:Now, why did my manager do that? That's inclusion. They wanted a bunch of students, a fresh blood in the company, so they had hired about 10, 15 of us from NIIT. But what does a student need? This particular student needed something different to the rest of the students. So by including me, by enabling that resource for me, look at where I have reached today. Right. So that's inclusion. And I think diversity, more inclusion, is something a CEO should keep in mind.
Speaker 1:Great. So as you're returning from this conversation, meeting up with all the CEOs, you'll also run into the colleagues or the employees of those organizations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you were to take the same 15 minutes with each of those team members, what would your message to them be? I heard what your message for the CEOs is. Now for the CEO sees. Now for the other side of the coin. What would your message to those individuals be?
Speaker 2:I think it is important for them to try to have their voices heard. So, whether the culture of the organization supports it or not, I'm hoping the CEOs would have heard me and then fix the culture. But regardless, it's not an overnight change, right? I told you right, when this happened, this org restructure happened to me. I couldn't just quietly exit it. I could have found myself a job outside and moved out, but I decided to go and speak to the managing director, not thinking that something is going to happen because of my conversation, but I just wanted to leave some feedback with him. But it enabled me in many ways, right. So it is important for everybody to think of this as their space. What would you do in your homes if you don't like something?
Speaker 2:not throw a tantrum, which probably some of the today's generation does, but try to have a communication and try to go with a solution and fix that problem to take ownership of the problem so I would like each of the employees to take that ownership and say, okay, fine, if I see a challenge here, if I see a problem not only with me or not only for me, I am fine. But I'm seeing that the other person sitting next to me is going through something because of you know, some problems that he or she may be having in the family, his manager, her manager or something else. Let me enable the person and try to help them out by using my voice. Right? So that's something I would definitely encourage everyone.
Speaker 1:Wonderful For listeners listening out. If you're in a position of authority, you can make a difference. Think about having that big picture, giving the big picture to the team. Think about nurturing the entrepreneurial mindset, or the entrepreneurial mindset within the organization, and appreciate diversity and inclusiveness, not just in terms of gender diversity, but overall diversity. For those of you who are team members, ownership I think it starts with you. Start taking that ownership to make that difference. And with that said, niazja, one other element is you talk very highly about community building as a leadership act. What's the structure behind it? Why do you call it that way and what's the structure behind it? Why do you call it that way and what's the structure behind it?
Speaker 2:So I'll give a story. I'm a storyteller because I think that that impresses upon the fact you know more than data can. So in this organization that I was helping Aspire for Her, it is a platform for women. There are many, many different communities. The communities were built and I will kind of through this story you will understand why these communities were so important. I was driving some education initiatives to impact 5,000 people with digital skills and these people had to be either from economically weaker sections of the society or they were probably women who had lost their main breadwinner during COVID, because this program was running during COVID. So whoever had lost the main breadwinner, we were kind of enabling them through these digital skills and then we were trying to help them with placements, if that was possible. So what we did was, obviously, this became a community. 5,000 is a big number, but whatever courses that we were offering, we built smaller communities. So if there was data science and there was a community of data science learners, then there was project management learners, so there were smaller communities that existed.
Speaker 2:We weren't able to really fulfill our 5,000. The task was 5,000 certifications. Well, we couldn't do that. That's a different story, even if we were able to do 2,000 or 3,000, even if there were 5,000 people trying to finish the certification. But they did not complete. They did only one chapter in their 10-chapter course. The beauty was that they felt a part of this community and each of them was helping the other person out, because every day on the telegram group one person will say you know why I finished this chapter, and you know it's kind of showing her enthusiasm, and 10 other people would say congratulations. Then 10 others would say how did you answer this particular problem that they had given in this chapter? So then they will go ahead and have a conversation and one will teach the other, the other will kind of help out.
Speaker 2:And I will narrate two stories. There is one lady who finished her project management certification and whenever certifications are over we used to give a shout out, and whenever certifications are over we used to give a shout out. She told me it is not about the project management expertise that I have developed, but what this has done to me is that my husband passed away a few months back. This community has made me feel like a safe space. It has given me a purpose to continue to move ahead, and she went ahead and found a job for herself. We didn't do it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Similarly, there was another lady who had lost her husband to COVID. She had never worked prior and she had two children. Her English was not great, but she used to come to every community meetup and she was trying to, you know, work on one of those courses. And I told her would you like to work for me, because there was a need for, you know, a kind of a reporting person in my team, and she said I've never worked before. I said it's okay, I will teach you how to do things. And she came and I have to tell you her thinking, her ability to think through when I say this is the report that I want, her ability to think through which data sources I should pick up and how I must do the joins and what kind of queries I write and whatever to build this beautiful report was amazing, amazing, and if she did make a mistake, I would point it out and say this is not to be done. One person in my life has never repeated a mistake again.
Speaker 2:And though her English was not great, I also put her on the job of manning, womaning the service desk right, so we would keep getting so many emails and I told her she should start responding. She could kind of think of the response in her native language and try to kind of translate. It wouldn't be correct. So I would help her and say okay, fine, this is the way you write polished English.
Speaker 2:In the two months she had become an expert at reporting and she was an expert in terms of, you know, responding. Her English was, you know, so much better to respond to the people who were writing it. So all of this is because she also realized she's enabling someone else like herself, if she has been elevated from nobody, to learn something, to get a job not for the money but, you know, for the self-confidence that it is giving, and her children will kind of look at her and they will grow to be better people. She knows that everything that she does has an impact on every other person in the community. So me and the ceo, madhura, really didn't have to do anything as leaders. We built the community, we supported the community. They themselves became leaders, they themselves drove things, they themselves achieved everything, and hence I believe that's leadership. Communities are leaderships.
Speaker 1:Wonderful, Such a profound stories of inspiration and what it means like community-led leadership kind of stuff In all of this. If you were to kind of identify an invisible factor that can make or break the culture of the community, culture of the organization, what would that one factor be?
Speaker 2:I think, having hierarchies in organizations, because there is a need for hierarchy. Everyone cannot be at the very top. But I'm talking about Madhura, who was the founder CEO of Aspire. For Her, I was running the education initiatives and I probably had two or three people in my team.
Speaker 2:Okay, now, if Madhura had not empowered me like she wouldn't even ask me what are you doing? Why are you doing? How are you doing? You know, my past 25 years of corporate experience made me do a report every week to her. I did a status report every week to her. I don't think anybody else did that for her in all her other you know verticals, but I did it because that's me. She may not even have looked at that report because she trusted me that I'm going to do the right things for the outcome that was required.
Speaker 2:Now, if there was a hierarchy which said, near ja, how can you take such decisions without asking me? You have to consult with me, I have to approve everything and, uh, you have to give me a reason for everything. Then after a while I'll also get tired of you know, getting approvals. Some things are not getting approved. Then I'll say, okay, fine, I'll do it your way, tell me your way.
Speaker 2:So I think, while there is a need for a structure, I'm not saying it has to be a flat structure. There was a need for some sort of a structure. But it is very important for us to empower our people. So don't micromanage. When you have shown them the bigger picture, they will go ahead and do, but you be there to help them out in case they are struggling. And if they make a mistake, you know, don't say, oh, I empowered you and you went ahead and made a mistake, because we all have come through that. If we are somewhere today it's because we made mistakes and somebody helped us through that. So that hierarchy structure has to become a little more enabling you need to have a hierarchy but yet make it loose.
Speaker 1:Empower your team members and trust I think that's the golden word that have the trust. Nisha, this has been one heck of a conversation. Thank you for giving, sharing lot of those insights through stories. Make it very, very sticky. Okay, the first of the power of three round question coming to you, nisha Three things you believe every organization should do to stay future ready.
Speaker 2:I think unlearning is very, very important. We don't do enough of that. We stick to all that we have learned. The second thing is to network. I think enable people to network, because the learning doesn't come from courses and MBA schools. The learning comes from the richness of expertise that stays in every person within the organization and outside. It is absolutely important. And the third is collaboration. Not so much competition, but let's collaborate.
Speaker 1:So more got to do with coming together of the team members. Absolutely so, Neza. If you were to fast forward yourself and give your future self three pieces of advice, what would that be?
Speaker 2:Believe in yourself. Definitely number one. The second is impact more than outcomes, even if one person is impacted by what you're trying to do, but you did not meet those targets. We didn't meet 5,000 targets but there were so many people who got impacted. They didn't finish certifications, but there was different kind of impact. That impact is what is going to kind of take us forward than just you know the numbers. So focus on impact, the work that you do. The third one is have some fun in life numbers. So focus on impact, the work that you do.
Speaker 1:The third one is have some fun in life. This is what you're telling Nils of the future.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I think I'm quite a boring person, you know. I have to tell you this. So I've stayed in the corporate space for 25 years, right, and of course I've had great friends, and those people, you know, should not beat me up when they hear me saying this, but there's a particular way we've lived the corporate life. Then now we are entrepreneurs and I have become part of many communities you know women entrepreneur communities and these people have come from very different facets of life, so their ideas and their gatherings, their parties, are very different. So now, because I'm part of that group, I attend those gatherings. So my daughter says you are getting better than you were in the past. You're getting a little less boring than what you were earlier.
Speaker 1:You can't ask it as better than this. That endorsement is coming from your 23 year old.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:These are three micro experiments that you practice to fight fear. It can be stage fear. It can be fear of speaking. It can be fear of talking to strangers. Whatever it is, what three micro experiments that you recommend?
Speaker 2:First of all, preparation is very, very important three micro-experiments that I do recommend.
Speaker 2:First of all, preparation is very, very important. You know I may sound as if I'm going on stage and I remember everything to the T and I'm delivering. No, you don't know the number of. You know rehearsals I've done previous to that, two, three, four, five, ten. And I script it. You know my daughter, again and again she says, because she's also a public speaker, I was scripted to the T.
Speaker 2:Of course I will not read it, but that scripting gives me, you know, the confidence and saying, okay, maybe I should not say this, I should say this Does it have enough time? Because you have to keep time also right when you are on stages. So practice. As many number of times I have done talks on networking a zillion times. My content may be the same, the stories change depending on where I'm going and speaking, but I will do two rehearsals before that again. So you know it doesn't matter. Practice is so very important. Second, don't think you're talking to an audience of 100 or 1000. Assume that you're talking to one person, because everyone should feel that you're talking to them one on one. So the minute you have that in your mind it will show on the stage also, and the third, of course, is just be yourselves. You can take inspiration from the best of the speakers, but you do it your way. That's when it's going to be phenomenal.
Speaker 1:So for a shy, timid conservative girl to be on the TEDx stage Means a big leap of faith. What was that one confidence booster that did it for you?
Speaker 2:I think I actually visualized myself. I used to like it when I was on the other side and see people on stages. And there was Once I was taking pictures when I was in an event and I was, you know, once I was taking pictures of, you know, when I was in an event and I was sending it to my family group and one of my cousins said, hey, are you speaking or are you attending? And I said how can you even ask me that question? And I've never spoken and I don't think I can ever speak. But that triggered something in me. How about when I'm on stage? Can I be on stage? And I visualized it. I visualized which conference, I visualized the topic, I visualized the sari that I was going to wear, I visualized myself climbing those steps of the stage, standing, delivering it, and when I was in the shower and all. I would repeat that speech again and again, and again and I'm kind of visualizing. I think that's what did it. So my first few would have been like that, and now it kind of just comes.
Speaker 1:Now look at you you're a pro. Thank you. These are three books that has influenced your life journey.
Speaker 2:So, largely because I work in the space of women. There is one by Sheryl Sandberg. It's called Lean In. Sheryl Sandberg was the CEO of Facebook Normata, and she's written this book about lean in, about women who should lean in and not just kind of, you know, keep to themselves. And hence today we have lean in circles which have come, so I can start a circle and I can have, you know, members in that and then we can decide how we kind of build and elevate other women. So Venan is a very powerful book.
Speaker 2:There's another one written by Apoorva Purohit. She has written two books and even I think this is very relevant for men too. She's written two books. One is Lady You're Not a man and the second one is Lady You're the Boss. I think Lady You're the Boss is incredible. Everyone should read it because beyond the first few chapters, which are about mindsets of women which hold them back, the last few chapters are real good leadership principles that she has spoken about. The third one I think this one you know the Atomic Habits is a very good book.
Speaker 1:James Clear, wonderful, great. So we are done with micro experiments, we are done with books. Three life lessons that have stayed with you, such an illustrious career that you've had. What are those life lessons that have stayed with you?
Speaker 2:I think humility is a big one. Be humble, whatever you have achieved, because there have been many people who have enabled this achievement. They could have been your school who have enabled this achievement. They could have been your school teachers. They are definitely your parents. There is a larger ecosystem. They could be managers in your organizations. There are subordinates and there is family that supports you. So, yes, you have achieved, but kind of ensure that you kind of stay grounded. So humility is definitely something. Be humble.
Speaker 2:The second is always I've already said it what is the impact that you can create? And even if you can impact one person, that's good enough. People will talk about you need to draw out a huge business. You know canvas map. How do I scale important? Yeah, you can do that, but can we start with? Can I impact one person? Because when you impact that one person, automatically the numbers will happen through that one person.
Speaker 2:So when I started on this journey, I wanted to help one woman to restart her career after a break, because that's when the transformation happened. I was still in my job, in my corporate job, but I looked at these women who had taken career breaks and they were struggling to restart their careers and I said can I help even one person? That was 2016. In 2018, I was walking on the road and there was one person who came on a motorbike. And the person removed the helmet. It was a woman and I've never seen her before. She said aren't you, neeraja Ganesh? I said yeah. She said I caught you, neeraja Ganesh, and I saw you on the road. I want you to come back and tell you thank you for the work that you do to help women like us. I never thought this was going to happen. Some random woman on the road, I said, one person. So so think about the impact, which is most important.
Speaker 2:And, thirdly, life lessons. Right, it's a holistic life. There are many elements. Lead a holistic life. Don't try to. You know, the first 10 years, I'm going to run a marathon with my career and then I get burnt out, and then burnt out in such a manner that I feel awful, but I have to give it all up. So it is holistic and at every stage of your life, there will be something which will take priority, something which probably you have to pause. But it is a very long life, it's a marathon. So lead a holistic life.
Speaker 1:Lead a holistic life, be humble and prioritize impact. Create impact.
Speaker 2:Three underrated career skills that are quietly becoming game changers there is a concept you may have heard of which is called as being T-shaped. So most people focus on the vertical of the T, which is the depth of a certain skill. So if just technology, then you know I have understood AI and I can build agents, or it could be, you know I'm a mechanical engineer or whatever. All of us need to have that depth. But what about the horizontal? Okay, because that's what differentiates us from everybody else, and today is a very crowded market and hence everybody has all that skill. So then, why should I hire you and not you? Why should we bring near john a podcast and not somebody else? Because everybody is, you know, giving all this. So the the horizontal of the team determines, uh, your differentiators. It determines the different ways in which you're able to accomplish a particular job, which could be some softer aspects. You know your problem solving skills, your collaboration skills, your team skills, etc. Nobody focuses on that and there are no courses for that. That could be courses, but that's not what is going to help you. Can you just look out for opportunities which will help you build those, and it doesn't have to be in the same space as you want to grow in your career. So if you want to be a data analyst, maybe you have to go and do a social media job somewhere. Maybe you have to go and volunteer somewhere else. Each of these is building your horizontal, because you yourself would keep building the vertical right. So I think becoming a T-shaped individual is very, very important today, and that's something that everyone needs to look at.
Speaker 2:I think today is a day of AI, right? We can't do without AI. I myself was anti, I have to say it. I'm like I still find it very difficult to let go. I don't have a Calendly that does my calendar appointments. I will do it myself. How can I let go? It's a very, very difficult thing for me, but I've realized that it's going to take away. You know, if I don't do it, I'm going to stay. Nobody else is going to push me back, but everybody else is going forward than I am, you know, going to stay behind, right?
Speaker 1:So, yes, today I think we have to understand in the way we can put ai to use and really kind of get going with that. Yeah, so t-shaped careers embrace ai. What would be the third one?
Speaker 2:third one is I think it is very, very important to be visible. You may call it personal branding, you may call it personal branding, you may call it visibility, but it is important for you to be seen, not only because it will give you opportunities, but because it is important for you also to be a role model for others. Everybody is a role model to somebody else. So the minute you kind of take the limelight, you tell your stories, others take inspiration from that and you never know how transformations are happening to the others. So I think building your brand and staying visible is very, very important, and that's not just limited to the social media.
Speaker 1:It can be in your own organization, it can be in your own team. That belief, that confidence, everything that you spoke about is what you're kind of talking about being visible.
Speaker 2:Exactly, Social media is not equal to branding. I mean that elevates it. But I tell people I run these classes on personal branding I said can you become a mentor? The minute you become a mentor, then you are seen as a mentor and your visibility is heightened because now they know, you know what Neerja is a mentor and she's mentored 20 people and they have reached you know these positions because of her mentorship and automatically you know there is. So now there was no social media there. There were 10 other people or 20 other people you impacted, which others are seeing because their managers are seeing the transformation in these 20 individuals and you suddenly become, you know the the highlight of the moment great nature.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. That was the end of the power of three segment. You did a fantastic job in giving us great responses for each of these questions. As we check along get closer to wrap up, one action every listener can take this week to move towards a more intentional, fulfilling career yeah, it's a very important question because most people will come, listen and go back.
Speaker 2:They would have enjoyed the one one and a half hours, but there's no concrete action right. So I think taking action is the action, because we touched upon so many things and you don't have to do everything. It's not possible to do everything also, but there would be one thing which is resonated and you feel this is what I want to do it also, but there would be one thing which has resonated and you feel this is what I want to do. It could be prioritization, or it could be building your brand, or it could be speaking up and having your voice heard, or it could be that I want to distill the big picture Whatever that be, which you think you want to start doing, and it will have a big impact on yourselves and the others. But please take that action, however small. That is because over a period of time, it would have gone a long way.
Speaker 1:So very well put. It's easy for everybody to kind of come listen and check the mark on one more episode heard, but what is important is taking action. Water resonates and to the ethos of this podcast, this is not about going and touching thousands of people, having thousands of downloads, even if one individual can get impacted through this. That's what we call it as creating ripples of inspiration. So, on that note, nija, on a weekend post lunch, you served a wonderful dessert through your insights, through your anecdotes. Before we sign off, what should we inspire someone today? Message to all of our listeners.
Speaker 2:Each of you can inspire the other person you never know. We all think, oh, what's there in me? Amirja and Shrikant have arrived in life and hence they can talk about it, but each of us has had a life. Wherever we are today, whatever challenges, whatever achievements, that needs to be known by the other person, we can inspire somebody else, and that's my message. Can we all be role models? Can we find opportunities to showcase what we have gone through and hence inspire the others?
Speaker 1:On that lovely note, if you are listening to this conversation and you are looking for inspiration, don't look anywhere, because you are the inspiration. That's the message out there. Thank you so much, neerja, for sharing this wonderful, wonderful conversation with me and my listeners.
Speaker 2:Absolute pleasure to have had this conversation.
