Inspire Someone Today
Inspire Someone Today
E156 | Roots. Reforms. AI. Prof. Rao on India’s Educational Future P2 | Prof. V Ramgopal Rao
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Curiosity drives learning in different ways across the globe. For students in developed countries, passion guides their educational journey, while those in developing nations like India often prioritize job security over personal interests. Professor Rao draws on his extensive teaching experience across continents to illuminate these stark contrasts, explaining why Indian students calculate their education ROI down to decimal points, while their Western counterparts freely pursue diverse interests.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as Professor Rao shares his perspective on the role of artificial intelligence in education. "AI is a great servant but a lousy master," he cautions, likening it to having a PhD in every subject at your fingertips. His nuanced view reveals how AI amplifies existing strengths—making the good better and the underprepared worse. This insight alone transforms how we might approach learning technologies in an increasingly AI-driven world.
Beyond academic insights, Professor Rao shares the pivotal moments that shaped his remarkable journey from humble beginnings to receiving India's equivalent of the Nobel Prize at just 39 years old. His "Power of Three" lessons emphasize integrity, empathy, and continuous learning as foundational to both personal fulfillment and professional success. He advocates for uncomfortable growth through connecting with "unlike minds" across disciplines and cultures.
As our conversation draws to a close, Professor Rao shares a perspective gained from six decades of life experience: "Life is beautiful and very short." He reminds us that meaningful connections and positive contributions, however small, create ripples that extend far beyond our brief time here. Whether you're an educator, student, or lifelong learner, these insights will transform how you approach knowledge acquisition and human connection in our rapidly changing world.
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Education and Curiosity
Speaker 1I have taught in various countries, various universities. I think curiosity is what drives learning in many of these countries and the developed countries. The one advantage they have is they don't have to worry about two meals a day and shelter on their roof over their head or anything like that. I think they are looking at learning, you know, just because of their own passion, their own interests. I think if I am not learning something, I feel very restless. You know, if I am, for example, even simple reading newspapers, if I don't read two newspapers every day, I feel I have missed out on something and I feel, you know, I don't even know. I feel I lose confidence in myself. So I think that learning is what keeps me going.
Speaker 2Welcome to Inspire Someone Today podcast, a show where we dive into the stories and insights that has the power to create ripples of inspiration in your life. I'm your host, shrikanth, and I'm thrilled to be with you on this journey of inspiration in your life. I'm your host, shrikant, and I'm thrilled to be with you on this journey of inspiration. Welcome back to part two of our conversation with Professor Rao. In this segment, he opens up about the secrets behind his success, his candid views on how AI will impact our future, and shares his power of three, three timeless lessons that can guide us all. If you thought part one was thought provoking, what follows promises to be even more eye catching, or should I say, ear catching. Part one was all about roots and vision, and part two is about wisdom and future. What does it really take to thrive? Let's dive straight in.
Speaker 1We are all writing about it. You know, if you see my, I am very active on social media. I at least have a quarter million people following me and I write regularly for Times of India. I talk about all of that. Whatever I told you, I have written in our most popular English daily newspaper, times of India, read by all of these people.
Speaker 1But you know, I think the bureaucracy, the willingness, that whole urgency that I see right, somebody has to see that on the government side too. You know, otherwise, same light, the same light, and I think that passion, that urgency which is needed, is what that needs to happen. I mean it can still be, you know, solved and it is not lost yet. And I hope you know that NEP is a good beginning. But the execution is where I think if we can make a task force, an empowered committee and start looking at these major reforms, the 1991 style for higher education, I think many things can change. I think the bureaucracy I doubt if that will ever happen in the current kind of a bureaucratic structure. So it has to happen from the PM directly getting involved in that, and without that I doubt if things really will go too far. It requires major reforms right now. Things really will go too far that it requires major reforms right now.
Speaker 2So we'll all stay hopeful, so hoping that somebody will listen to this conversation. This show is called as Inspire Someone. Today. Maybe that talk by professor is going to inspire somebody out there to make some big step, big bold step, Moving on on a similar trajectory. Professor, you have taken on visiting roles at various institutions globally. How do you compare the mindset of students and the culture of learning across regions? What do these differences tell us about our own potential as a country in the global knowledge economy?
Speaker 1I have taught in various countries, various universities. I think curiosity is what drives learning in many of these countries, and you know the developed countries. The one advantage they have is, you know, they don't have to worry about, you know, two meals a day and shelter on their roof over their head or anything like that. I think they are looking at learning, you know, just because of their own passion, their own interests. So many a time, in many countries like UBS or other developed kind of nations, students are able to pursue what interests them, right, that's one thing, whereas in India, you know, students are interested in something but they want to pursue something else because that is where the jobs are available. Because by coming from, you know, students are interested in something but they want to pursue something else because that is where the jobs are available. Because by coming from, you know, from a loyal per capita kind of a nation right and to the security, securing their career, their future, is the first thing on the mind of parents, on the mind of students, right, everybody, you know, wants to first secure their career and then I will worry about, you know, my passion and all of that. So that is what explains this mad rush for IT, you know the software jobs and these kind of jobs, because they all want to get a job first. You know everything else comes later. I may be very interested in mathematics, right, but then if I think that mathematics will not get me a good job, I would like to pursue engineering and then I will see, you know, if I can ever have a chance to pursue mathematics, kind of thing. So that is a tendency in India, as compared to the developed countries, I have only in other countries, I think I only taught in these developed countries and that is one major difference that you see. So students are here on the campuses just to get a job. So therefore, the placements have become so important in every institution and in fact recently my dean was saying you know, students are beginning to even calculate return on investments on their education down to a decimal point and then choose which institute to go, kind of a thing. I think that is what we have become as a nation now. You don't blame, you know, students also for that because, like I said, the competition is intense and securing career is the thing that comes first, that is on top of your entire priorities, and I think you don't blame, but I think we are in a situation in our country's history when we have aspirations, but I think there is enough competition in everything and you know, so you need to. You know, just secure your career, that kind of a mentality that is very prevalent right now. So I think I hope we will become a developed nation. I mean that Vixit Bharat, all of that will happen, and I hope you know when that happens. I mean, if somebody wants to pursue one single area, right, I mean they should have full freedom to pursue that and expect that they can make a living out of that. I think that guarantee you cannot give today of any discipline other than maybe you know some disciplines of engineering, right. So that is the challenge that we are facing right now and that I see as one major difference In IITs you know I taught in India also only in the finest institutions in India the students are very, very curious.
Speaker 1Usually people say that in India students don't ask questions and all of that, but in IITs the classes are very interactive. I mean so many questions students ask, they test your entire knowledge you know when you go to the class. So, which is all good in IITs that way. But I've also seen even within IITs the undergraduate classes versus the postgraduate classes. The postgraduate classes they come from various other parts of the country Usually the IIT undergrads don't come for the postgraduate. So in the postgraduate classes you often see students a bit shy, not asking too many questions and treating the teacher as if the person knows everything. And who am I to ask that person, kind of a mentality. But in other graduate classes they don't care, you just ask whatever you want to learn kind of thing.
Speaker 1I think probably it also depends on even the country, which institution you have taught and which institutions you have gone to. But in Western countries everybody asks questions. It doesn't matter you know which institutions you have gone to. But in Western countries everybody asks questions Doesn't matter you know which class you are teaching and they ask lots of questions and if something is bothering they are very free, you know kind of thing to approach and they have that confidence that they can ask kind of a thing. Whereas in India usually students outside of IIT system are a bit shy in asking questions. They hesitate a little bit and that's one difference which I have noticed. But I think the choice of careers in India, as I said, is more driven by. You know how to secure my career like, rather than you know how to pursue my interests. So which is again one major difference between the developed countries and India?
Professor Rao's Career and Vision
Speaker 2And you make a very valid point, and it's also the reflection of how the country is kind of passing through. For me, end of the day, while passion is important, food at the table is also important, and hence my option of pursuing a career is what gets me food at the table than what gives me internal joy or happiness. How?
Speaker 1I think maybe now we are better placed than we ever were because of the availability of content everywhere. So now, if I want to know, I have a great interest in physics, right, but I became a mechanical engineer because that was the only branch I could probably get. I mean, it's not true in my case, but I'm just taking an example, right. So now you found a job. Now you're working for somebody in a big industry, right, but you knew that you were interested in physics. So now I can use, independent of my profession, I think those opportunities exist today and I think which was not the case maybe even 10 years ago, but now you know, I can even write. Who says I cannot write scientific papers in physics? Now, though I may be working as a mechanical engineer somewhere, I can even write. Who says I cannot write scientific papers in physics? Now though I may be working as a mechanical engineer somewhere. I can do all of that today.
Speaker 1So I think those who want to do that now, we are probably at the best place right now in terms of availability of content and the opportunities that are available for somebody who has a deep passion in something you know, for them to pursue that passion. So I think probably that's how India will develop Passion will become a second career, while your requirement becomes, drives, your first career. And not everybody is lucky to, you know, have their passion and the job you know all aligned very well. There are so many, I know they want to do something else or they wanted to do something else. They have become something else, but now you know, I also know that they are pursuing, you know, some of these second kind of career options. So I think probably you know that's how we will move towards the final goal of, you know, combining passion with the career.
Speaker 2Professor, as the top honkers of the educational institution, on a very pertinent topic that is doing the rounds in the world, particularly amongst the student community today, and you know what I'm kind of talking to is AI right. What does AI mean to the graduating class of 2025 and beyond, and how should this student community start preparing themselves towards being part of the workforce?
Speaker 1AI is a great enabler. That's how I see that, you know I. For me, it's like having a PhD in all subjects. You know, sitting in my phone right Now, I can ask it questions on you know, genetics to what have you? I mean climate change, to anything, and then it will give me so many resources and so much of information. But you know information. Basically, google also was giving the same information, right, but that time you needed to go to those 10 sites that Google referred you to read all those 10 sites and synthesize. That's what we were doing with the help of Google. Now, gen AI has taken it to one level above, right, you don't even need to synthesize anything. It goes to all those 10 sites, looks at all the information available, synthesizes and gives you you know what you would have. What can you, you know, two weeks to do earlier. So I think now it's very empowering, right, but we need to, you know, also see how it will hamper our own individual growth, right? If I become too dependent on these tools, right, then my ability to read anything and synthesize would also become an impairment at some point in time.
Speaker 1And I've always said that these tools are great servants If you treat them as a servant and it takes your instructions, does the work that you assign it to do, then you are essentially empowering yourself. I mean, you don't have to do all those mundane kind of tasks, and being a servant which is so well read and well educated, you know, will help you in many tasks, and but if you treat it like your master and then you will have a problem because then it's a lousy master. It's a great servant but it is actually a lousy master, so then it will direct you in directions which you have no idea you are going and you start believing that whatever chart GPT is saying is the absolute truth. And then, I know, you get into all kinds of issues and challenges and all of that. I think there is a difference, right? I mean, I always feel that is the point where we are with respect to the technology and our individual development is you need to become good at something? You know, if you are not good at something, these tools will also not be able to help you much.
Speaker 1For example, you know I work in the nanoelectronics area. I know what is happening in my field. I don't have time to read earlier. You know I used to read lots of papers when I was an active professor. Now I don't have so much of time to read so many papers. Now I use ChatGP to tell me what are the last 10 papers that appeared in nature in my area. Right, give me a gist of some of the top papers that are most cited in my area in the last one year. It does it now. You know, in about five minutes I get all of that information which I would have earlier needed to spend so much of time.
Speaker 1So that is how I use this AI, right, and it is very useful for me because I know what I am asking for, I know how it is saving my time and I know that I could not have done today. So now I use it to actually empower myself and for every activity that I do I have a clarity. I want to cover these four points in that even newspaper article, but I don't have time to go and do research. You know reading all about those four points across government documents, to publish literature and all of that information in a nutshell so I can go to those resources and read myself and convince that what it is saying is actually true. So I think that is how, if you are using these tools, it's very good. So you become good at something. You use these tools to enhance your understanding of an area and to cut down on your time for doing the same task. That is where they are most powerful and most empowering, you know.
Speaker 1The other aspect is I am a student, I don't want to do any assignment and teacher has given me some assignment, I give it to ChartGPT. Chartgpt gives me something, I submit it to the teacher and then you know, I expect that it has helped me. It has actually not helped me, not helped that student. It has, as you know, reduced your ability to understand something and you lost out on a great opportunity to learn something by by using chart gpt to do that assignment. And you know then you have actually harmed your career by using that.
Speaker 1So therefore, I think the best way to use chart gpt is you have to first of all become good at something right on your own, through education, through learning, through reading to reading, to whatever you know that is at your command right.
Speaker 1You become good at something and use these tools to, you know, become better in that area. So, in fact, there are even scientific studies to point out that that the people who are in the top 10% in their profession right, their output, their you know ability to use these tools, you know, is at least two times or three times better compared to people who are at the bottom of that area, who have no clue what they are doing and they are just using chart GPT to play around. That doesn't take them anywhere. It actually, if they are bad, it makes them worse. If they are good, it actually makes them better. So therefore, it's very important to be good at something and then use these tools to become better. And if you are bad and you have not learned anything, and if you are using these tools, it only makes things worse and eventually, you know, it will all fall apart.
Speaker 2That's a brilliant line. I think the message out here is you can go from good to great or bad to worse. The choice is yours. Great, first of the power of the round. Question no-transcript. What's your go-to form of entertainment or relaxation? Three things that is your go-to in terms of entertainment or relaxation.
Speaker 1I like listening to podcasts. Earlier I used to read a lot, but now I find that there are many good podcasts available. You can listen to great people their thoughts, so I listen to podcasts quite a bit actually. And, of course, spending time with family is always the most pleasant thing. I also, you know, I used to play outdoor games, but now I started liking long evening walks and you know so I think some of these I do now. These are how I spend most of my time. I do read when I am traveling, for example, you know, when I am not listening to something and I am reading something, but I'm always, you know, one thing which I realized, you know, even thinking about it recently I'm always trying to learn something, right, I mean, whether I am, whatever I may be doing, I am always either listening to something and learning I am reading something or learning I am talking to people and learning. I think you know learning is at the center of my relaxation Great.
Speaker 2If you were to restart your journey, what are three things you would definitely change and three you would never change?
Global Learning Culture Differences
Speaker 1I would have remained as a teacher, which I would not have changed, and I, you know, honesty, integrity, I think, are fundamental to me, knowingly I never made a mistake, I would never do anything wrong, and so that has always been in my ethos. Maybe it's my, you know, cultural background, history or whatever way my upbringing has been, and I have never done anything which, you know, one can classify as dishonest and illegal cheat. I have never done that. I can't even think of doing anything like that, and I think you know I have also been now learning.
Speaker 1I think if I am not learning something, I feel very restless. You know, if I am, for example, even simple reading newspapers, if I don't read two newspapers every day, I feel I have missed out on something and I feel, you know, I don't even know. I feel I lose confidence in myself. So I think that learning is what keeps me going and keeps me energized, which is very, very important. So I do not know, you know, what I would not have done, what I would have done, but these things are very fundamental to my existence earlier question, but I framed it after reading your LinkedIn post yesterday on Teacher's Day.
Speaker 2So what are three life lessons, one each, from these gentlemen if you can share Juzi Rewazi, Professor Dinesh Sharma and Professor Rakesh Lama.
Speaker 1I think integrity, that's one thing which is common across all the three of them. And the selflessness right, doing things without expecting anything in it for them. If I am doing it, I am doing it just to help that other person and there is nothing in it for me. I think that is again common across these three individuals. And humility, right, and you know they are very humble. I mean for what they are. I think that humility is definitely, you know, something that opens doors for many people.
Speaker 1I think that is again common across all these three people. They were as you read in that article. They are very different personalities. One, a very clean table any day. The other, you know, you can't even see the person behind the table. But some of these qualities which are common across them is what you know makes them the great people you know that they are. And hard work. I think all of them were very hardworking, but so I think some of these were definitely the qualities they all possessed and that's why, irrespective of their ways of functioning, their personalities and all of that, I think these are the common qualities which made them, you know, such lovable human beings.
Speaker 2It's so interesting. Despite everything that is going on in the world, we talk about so many skills, knowledge. All of this boils down to some of these very basic common traits. So, professor, what are the three enduring life lessons that you have gathered over your early space career?
Speaker 1I have always been. Staying curious is one thing like I said, the learning never stops and staying grounded. You will never find me any other way. Just connect to the grass roots, and that's how I have always been. And discipline wise I don't know whether I am I mean work wise. I am, I don't know whether I'm I mean work wise. I'm very disciplined. But otherwise, you know, I can spend days doing whatever I am doing without. You know, that is how I have been, and I mean I've always been driven by passion.
Speaker 1If I do something, I would never do it in a half-hearted way. If I take up a job, I would never do it in a half-hearted way. If I take up a job, I would give my best. I also can't say no, you know, many a time, which is my biggest weakness. As a result, you know there's too many things to do on my plate, too many things on my plate, but I, you know, always prioritize my work and I eventually get it done, you know. So I think that way. I mean, they have been very helpful as life lessons for me.
Speaker 2Professor, if a chapter were to be written about the quietest but most powerful moment in your journey, what story would it tell?
Speaker 1I think one that moment was to receive the Shanti Swaroop Bhatnagar Prize when I was 39 years old. That was a very engaged for, the Shanti Swaroara Bhatnagar Prize that was considered even now as the Nobel Prize of India and for me, coming from a very humble background, and that prize is always given by the Prime Minister of the country and I received it very early in 1995, very early in my career career. I came to India in 2005. I received it 1998. I joined IIT Bombay. In seven years I rose to a level where I received that highest national award for scientist and given by prime minister and interacted with him over tea. That was my moment of in life and that entire photograph and everything it's still my WhatsApp, you know, profile picture. That changed my life, I mean, and that showed me that you know I can do things and I think that was the moment of change for me in my journey.
Speaker 2Fantastic. Many congratulations on that, Professor.
Speaker 1That was 2005,. So 20 years ago.
Speaker 2But nevertheless an achievement. Professor, if you could assign one mandatory course that every leader in the world must take, what would it be, and why?
Finding Purpose in Teaching
Speaker 1I think empathy, if you cannot empathize with a person. I am moved by a problem that somebody is facing right, and then you know that drives me to take up that research topic and put my entire heart and soul into that. I think that's again driven by that empathy. When somebody approaches you with a problem, if it moves you so much that how can this happen to this person? I think you know you take actions to sort that problem out. I think you know you take actions to sort that problem out. I think being empathetic is something very important for everybody.
Speaker 2That's a wonderful point there, Professor. The last of the power of three rounds seems to emphasize so much on learning and curiosity. If we were to share three micro experiments for one to become good learner or good observer of things around, what would those three micro experiments be like?
Speaker 1I think the observation right. I mean maybe empathy also plays a role there. I always tell my students and everybody if you are trying to find a research problem, you don't have to go to library and read an American journal, right? You just look around you. You find problems, right? India has all the problems of the world. If you are looking for a problem, you don't need to go to America and find a problem in their publications and all of that and each of these problems, you know you can spend your lifetime solving them, and they will also require such high and deep technologies to solve. And so I think that power of observation is also about networking with people.
Speaker 1I think I always say that you need to interact with unlike minds, right. I mean you need to interact with people who are not like you, unlike in terms of attitude, right? Maybe you know they come from industry backgrounds, so they really don't think like you, they think very differently, and so that's one way you know they come from industry backgrounds, so they really don't think like you, they think very differently, and so that's one way you know to learn. And disciplines, right, I am from electronics, microwave, nano electronics If I start talking to a person in chemistry. That again is a great learning thing. So that's again, you know, something which one must do as a habit Talk to people you know who don't come from your discipline of knowledge, somebody completely different from what you are doing, and the cultural kind of a thing too, from a totally different culture, and those interactions also can be great learning experiences.
Speaker 1I think to me we're getting into those. We're interacting with unlike kind of minds. Bringing them together is the first step to you know, discovering yourself and starting initiatives and doing all of that. I think that people must put themselves in uncomfortable situations. If I get up in the morning and talk to the same three people I'm comfortable with, do the same five things that I did every day, no magic is going to happen. I mean your life will. You will not even realize when your life ended. But putting oneself in those uncomfortable situations, interacting with people you know who are unlike them, right, I think that can open doors in many ways. I think that I would encourage everyone to do that's a great learning thing, in my hope.
Speaker 2Has there been times in your career where you felt stuck or uncertain, and how did you overcome those moments and find renewed errors?
Speaker 1I think that happens. You know, at the level we are all operating, there is every day some crisis. I mean sometimes you know what needs to be done right, Sometimes you don't know. I mean things look so overbearing that things can be quite challenging, but I think that integrity again comes in your way. Consultations Now.
Speaker 1I would talk to so many people. When I'm faced with such situations, the one thing I do is just interact with people because, you know, no one is better than all of us. That I believe very strongly. So nobody can be better than all of us. So, therefore, you talk to people, and when I say talk to people, not just those five people that you talk every day, you sometimes talk to people and some, when I say talk to people, not just those five people that you talk every day, you know you sometimes talk to people who are, you know, much lower level than you in hierarchy, or people you know, who you don't talk on a daily basis, and people you know all of those people. I think just interacting with people about the issue sometimes can, can show a solution to many of these problems. So I I strongly believe in this, in this culture of collaboration, consultation, right, which is, I think with that you will eventually find a way.
Speaker 2so thriving in the culture of collaboration and consultation is what you are recommending, great professor. This show is all about creating the inspiration. So, before we sign off, what should inspire someone today? Message to all the listeners.
Speaker 1Yeah, I think you know it's a beautiful life. I mean, when I now look back, it looks so short. Right Now I have just turned 60 years and it just looks like yesterday. What I did 20 years ago it is so fresh in your memory and it just looks like yesterday. I just can't believe that. You know, I have become this world now kind of thing.
Speaker 1I think we all need to realize that life is beautiful and very, very short and there is so much to do, so much to learn, so much to contribute, so much to have fun. You know, there are so many ways you can actually, you know, make the world, the place near surrounding you, a better, better one for everyone. And uh, I think, you know, given that life is so short and uh, everything is over, you know, before you actually realize, now, I think the value of time is uh something which I now, you know, feel we don't realize enough. And uh, everything over I mean it's just everything is a fleeting moment. So, I think, capture those moments, live in them as long as you can, have good relationships and, you know, I think, do something to make something better. You know it doesn't matter what it is what you are making better. But I think all of us, if we can make even two, three people happy in your daily life, I think you know you have achieved something.
Speaker 1I personally feel you know people don't realize how much they can contribute and how much they can change. But you know a lot of them struggling with the mental pressure issues and struggling with so many things is simply because they lack that social life. They are not connecting, you know, deeply enough with anybody else and that is what is causing, you know, a lot of challenges in many people. I think the first thing is the power of that community. Build your own communities and, you know, interact with them deeply, meaningfully. I think that's very, very important. So I think as a community, you know, we can solve many problems.
Speaker 2Professor, you didn't give us pearls of wisdom, you gave us buckets of it. Wishing you a lot, lot of success, let you be the pioneer of the educational reforms that countries are so so looking forward to, and thank you so much for sharing your life journey, your wonderful journey of what it takes not just to kind of dream but actually live the dream. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Inspire Someone today. This is Srikant, your host, signing off. Until next time, continue to carry the repulse of inspiration, stay inspired, keep spreading the light.
