Inspire Someone Today
Inspire Someone Today
E159 | Don't Chase your career. Coach It. | Shyam Sadasivan
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Career growth doesn’t have to look like a ladder to the top. We unpack what it means to build a lattice—moving sideways, going deeper, and sometimes stepping down to step forward—with practical tools you can use today. With coach and speaker Shyam Sadasivan, we challenge the labels that box us in, celebrate the “deep generalist” who has breadth with chosen depth, and replace prestige metrics with a new currency: Impact, Network, Renewal. If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s too late to pivot or feared losing what you’ve built, this conversation will give you a grounded path forward.
We start with identity and momentum: “I’m starting from zero, I’m not zero.” From there, Shyam shows how to separate an itch from a true direction by giving ideas time to prove their stickiness. Test-drive change through two-way doors—reversible experiments like pro bono projects and informational interviews—while managing risk like snakes and ladders: avoid big mistakes, keep your downsides small. When promotions stall, we explore how to create real progress through better conversations, adjacent roles, and richer mastery.
Decision-making gets sharper with the head-heart-gut model. You’ll learn simple ways to hear each voice, use premortems to anticipate failure before it happens, and wield the power of “yet” to turn fear into a learning plan. We also dig into the traps that keep people stuck—golden handcuffs, sunk cost bias, and envy—and offer a life-first prioritization: who you’re with, where you live, and what you do. Expect practical micro experiments, candid stories, and book picks that balance specialist excellence with generalist range. If you’re ready to redefine success on your terms, press play and tell us the one experiment you’ll start this week. Subscribe, share with a friend, and leave a review to help others find the show.
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Opening Vibe & Guest Intro
SPEAKER_00There was this thing that used to come in some advertisement when I was a kid, and my mother reminds me I put it up on a chart on my room. I on my wall, basically it said, What needs to be done must be done. It's okay to be okay in many things, but then the world doesn't recognize or reward you unless you can do at least one thing well. So it's okay to have a broad spread of expertise and interests, but you need to do one or two things really well for the world to really recognize and reward and respect you. This book, I will not exaggerate, changed my complete approach to work. Uh Epstein's book called Range, which is probably the best book written on the topic of generalists. Please, please, please, anyone listening who considers themselves a generalist should read Dave Epstein's range.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Inspire Someone Today Podcast, a show where we dive into the stories and insights that has the power to create ripples of inspiration in your life. I'm your host, Shrikant, and I'm thrilled to be with you on this journey of inspiration. Hey my dearness, step in, settle down and open your heart. This is inspire someone today where voices turn into inspiration. Every career has crossroads. Some take upward, others sideways, and sometimes down unexpected alleys. Our guest today, Sham Sadashivan, has not only lived those crossroads but also helps people navigate them with clarity and courage. This episode is just not a story, my dear reasons. It's a live coaching session for your career decisions. It's an absolute joy to have Shyam on this episode of Inspire Someone Today. Welcome to the show, Sham.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me, Shaykhan. It's an absolute pleasure. Having listened to your podcast, having watched a recording live, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for calling me.
Not Just A Techie
SPEAKER_01Thank you. And we'll jump right in, Sham. I think I have a lot to ask you today. So we'll jump right in. I call call this as pivoting the career playbook. And if I were to kind of uh ask you, if your career was a book, what would you call the chapters where you had your biggest pivots?
Master Of One, Deep Generalist
SPEAKER_00Okay. When I was uh I guess younger, uh I was very inspired by just doing things. So just do it, or there was this thing that used to come in some advertisement when I was a kid, and my mother reminds me I put it up on a chart on my room on my wall. Basically, it said what needs to be done must be done. It it had it was an advertising line, I think. So that kind of uh worked a lot with me uh when I was trying to decide what to do, and I r realized very early that uh doing is is the path to clarity. Moving into career, I think the first pivot would be the realization that I'm not just a techie. So maybe the first chapter would be not just a techie, because I realized also that in my own journey that being labeled is something that happens very naturally to all of us. And of course, if I have done an engineering degree and a master's degree and got a job as an engineer, I am a techie. And uh I think very, very early in my career, maybe in the first two years itself, I realized that I did not just want to be a techie. So maybe not just a techie. And then building on that, I also realized that even though I was specializing in certain areas, uh I was truly a generalist by nature. And even today I do many things and I try to do many things well. As my very close friend says, you know, we are not uh jack of all trades, master of none. We are jack of all trades, master of one. And uh in every situation, that one will be different. So maybe the second uh chapter could be master of one, maybe. And then uh the realization that the generalist nature is so strong. In fact, I have trademarked this, and one day maybe I'll make a website or a book out of it. There are so many ideas I've jotted down. The trademarked uh term is called the deep generalist, um, which uh intends to send the message that even though I'm a generalist, I'm significantly deep in the areas that I have decided to be generalist across. So, for example, I'm a trainer and a coach today and a speaker. I'm a deep generalist in these three areas. So across the board, I am generalist, but then if you call me in for a speech or a training or a coaching, I am deep enough to be able to do a good job. So, yeah, so not just a techie, master of one, deep generalist. And I'll probably finish by saying going back to my original thought of doing and saying, stop overthinking, start doing, which is something I keep saying to myself and to my clients. Stop overthinking, start doing.
SPEAKER_01That's four lovely chapters in that particular career period book, Sham. That's a great start. I really loved uh this particular Jack of all, Master of One.
SPEAKER_00Indeed. Indeed. Because Jack of all trades is a very and master of none is a very belittling. I mean, the original intent was fair enough that become good at something. Yeah. And I think that is what we need to rephrase and say it's okay to be okay in many things, but then the world doesn't recognize or reward you unless you can do at least one thing well. So it's okay to have a broad spread of expertise and interests, but you need to do one or two things really well for the world to really recognize and reward and respect you.
SPEAKER_01The other piece that you called out, which was very uh interesting, was also that stop stereotyping yourself, right? I am no I'm just not a techie. It's a great phrase out there. He's about we stereotype ourselves by virtue of what we study, what we want to be. Yeah. And that can become a limitation in itself.
SPEAKER_00Indeed, indeed. I mean, we get uh caught in our own stories, our own labels, what people call us. Fantastic point, Shrikant, that that is in a way the biggest barrier to making a switch. Because you have to let something go. And whenever, especially I coach largely people in their forties and fifties most of the time, and the biggest challenge is 25 years I've done something. How can I let it go and start afresh? Am I not zero? And then we another catchphrase for your audience is I keep saying to myself and and to my clients, I am starting from zero. I am not zero. I am starting from zero. Powerful. And I have the confidence, the the skill to learn from scratch and do something. But I am not zero because it is very important to separate the person from the problem. The problem is the pivot. The problem is not you. If you think of yourself as the problem, I am zero, then that makes it much harder kind of step to uh cross. So I am starting from zero, I am not zero.
SPEAKER_01That's a super inner dialogue, inner anchor to have. And you did mention about that switch. What was your toughest inner dialogue when you had to reconcile before making the switch?
Starting From Zero, Not Zero
SPEAKER_00Well, inner dialogue is is both constructive and uh critical. The constructive is you can do it, uh, you know, life is too short. Uh, you know, I read Oliver Berkman's 4,000 weeks and realized my life is so short and I want to do something. So the all that is the positive inner dialogue. But I guess uh where you're coming from is the more inner dialogue that pulls us back, right? And uh the pulling back is you know, uh what what am I leaving behind? Who am I competing with? You know, all this new generation is doing so many things. Can I match up? Should I start something new now? What will happen if I end up on the streets? You know, all of these uh things are there. And my biggest inner dialogue was is it too late? I made my after about 20 years in in corporate work, I have been solo for the last about five years or so. And I made my switch at the age of I wanted to switch earlier, but I eventually moved at 42 when I made my switch, and I've been very, very fortunate and very, very happy to have the opportunities I have. So now the is it too late was my inner dialogue, you know. Should I just stick with what I know? Is it too late to start afresh? Is it too late to go into something new? Will I make it? Doubt. Doubt is the biggest problem.
SPEAKER_01And how do you overcome that? I I think between that phase of being restless itch versus the real need to pivot, the fear, the self-doubt, uh, is it too late? Will I be successful? So how do you kind of overcome some of these?
SPEAKER_00Interesting. So, yeah, how do you know if it is an itch or a kind of a real desire? I I I love itches actually. Because I love the fact that something is bothering me. Not in a bad way, but in a in a curious way, you know. I get uh sometimes I get bothered by a book, or sometimes I get bothered by something I listen to on a podcast, or uh or someone sends me a YouTube shot of of a podcast clip or something like that. And it gets me, what is this? What is this, what is going on? You know, I need to go deeper into it. So I love those issues, but you you have a very uh interesting uh framing of that. I mean, when is something an itch and when is something really something you want to act upon? Because you might end up acting on an itch and going down a complete kind of uh rat hole, right? Uh I think time. I think give it time. If you are still curious about something one day later, one week later, one month later. So sometimes it's important to journal or some some kind of running list. Uh you know, being now in a WhatsApp world, I have multiple WhatsApp groups with myself. Now you can text yourself also on WhatsApp. But I have multiple groups where there is only me and I call them all different names and I just jot things down. And if I keep coming back to it, let's say a week later or a month later, I know that it is something I really should do justice to. But if I have just put it like uh bookmarks, you know, we have like a million bookmarks. Most bookmarks you'll never go back. You don't go back. It's all gone and just blocking your Chrome, your whatever browser windows are all just blocked up, right? But then if you go back, it's like a good book you read four times. Some books you read and throw away, some books you never finish, some books you never go past the first chapter. But I think the each was his need. I think the real question is do you go back? Does it stick with you for time? You know? Are you still thinking about it one year later and then saying, Oh my goodness, if I had done something one year ago, I would have already finished this. So yeah, so give it time. How much time is going to be relative, I think. For me, if I've sat with something for a month, a couple of months, then yeah, I should do something about it. I should not let it go.
SPEAKER_01So go with the stickiness of it. While the itch is there, how sticky that itch is what determines you to kind of take action or move forward.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean if it is an itch, you address the itch, but then if it keeps coming back, you know it is more than an itch, and then do something uh something more about it, something deeper about it, talk to somebody.
Itch Vs Intent: Let Ideas Prove Themselves
SPEAKER_01The other piece, uh Sham, while you made this pivot, you did what you wanted to do. In the current state where we are, growth is not necessarily always a vertical journey. Growth can be lateral, growth can be going in depth as well. So in the coaching conversations that you have, how do you help someone to see value when promotions is not necessarily the only way up or the promotions is not the only way for somebody to feel that they are going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think the biggest fallacy or the biggest comfort zone you enter in a salaried job is you assume that things are always going to go up. Which is not true. Because a uh expectation that you should get a pay rise, expectation that like X number of years you should get a promotion, expectation that the path is permanently up. I think it is a very unnatural expectation. And for a long time our corporations are able to offer that, but I don't think that is uh true anymore. Which makes us challenge the idea of what growth means. If it is not always up, it could be sideways, it could be down. When I quit, I had no work for nearly a year. And it took me some time to figure out what I wanted to do, where I wanted to do, who I wanted to do with. So I planned for a bit of a time that it takes for us to figure things out. So growth may be down also, you know, for a while. For a while, where you're investing in yourself, investing in connection, investing in things. Just like a typical startup, where about a couple of years you may not have any revenue, but then it'll shoot up if you've done well in that preparatory time. So how do you, when you're not getting promoted, when you're not growing up, start looking sideways, start looking outside, look at uh what are the things that other people are doing. It is very tempting to start by looking at the what. But I think it is very powerful to look at the who. For example, one of the questions I ask sometimes is, okay, you know very clearly what you want. Uh, do you know anybody and have you spoken to somebody who is doing what you want? And that is where a I think a good conversation is where your journey should begin. It should not be in a book or a movie or a YouTube video or a class online or whatever. That is okay for awareness. But really, your step to growth, which is not vertical, will come from a very, very high quality conversation.
SPEAKER_01That's very interesting. The who to talk to who has kind of gone down that path so that you can kind of relate to that individual's journey and say, Okay, is this what I would want to kind of sign up for?
Lateral Growth And Career Lattices
SPEAKER_00Exactly. I mean, there are only two ways you'll figure things out in life. This is uh this is a story I heard about Mozart. Uh so what happened is um some guy came to Mozart and said, uh, how do I write a symphony? And uh Mozart said, How old are you? He said, I am 35. And he said, No, you're too old. Mozart said, You're too old to write a symphony. And the guy said, But you were writing symphony when you were a child. When you were like 10 years old, you wrote a symphony. And Mozart said, Yeah, but I never went asking anyone for help. So there are only two ways of figuring this out. One, you already know. You it is there in you. You're jumping and going, and if you ask the geniuses of the world how they're doing something, they will not be able to put into words. Right. Uh Tendulkar or a Federer are taking sports examples. If you ask them how do you do it, they have no idea, they're just doing it. But we are specifically talking about situations where it is not natural and you're not there. So you have to talk to somebody. You have to talk to a mozak, and they will give you some tip. You cannot copy exactly what they do, but you will get inspired by uh what they have done and what attempts they have made uh and what connections they have made and whatever knowledge they are willing to share.
SPEAKER_01You did touch upon uh this element of looking sideways, looking outside, all of it. But what does a career lattice look like in real terms? How can one embrace this without losing or without feeling lesser?
SPEAKER_00Good frame. Of why should a career matrix or a career lattice uh which is not exactly straight up, it is kind of sideways, uh sometimes down, sometimes you know all over the place. So it's uh because some people have called it lattice, some people call it uh uh kind of crooked career, some people call it squiggly career. There are books with all these um all these names to it. Which the main idea is that it is not a straight line. That is obvious. Uh careers are no longer a straight line. Now, the beauty of uh this kind of approach is first of all in uh accepting that um it is not going to be linear. You will have setbacks, you will have sideways and all of that. Now, how do you accept the fact that this is how it will be? That's the question, isn't it? The question is how do I frame my own mindset to thinking that this is not wrong or this is not a failure, or this is not a mistake? It is important to understand that every phase is leading to something. So you may not have the entire journey planned out for yourself. You may not know if I do this, this, this, two year, three year, four year, five year, ten year, promotion, retirement, blah, blah. Doesn't happen anymore. So the question becomes what does my next step offer me? And is it worth taking that next step? So, bottom line for a career lattice, look at the next step in front of you and know what value it adds. Sometimes it may not add value, but the value may come three years down the line. So take an intentional step and the journey map or the vision will appear only when you take the step. So that is the biggest reframing in a lattice or a matrix uh career, crooked, squiggly career uh uh analogy is that you need to see maybe one or two steps ahead, you will not be able to see five steps ahead.
SPEAKER_01That's a excellent call out because we expect for that clarity, which unless until I have that clarity for the next five years, next seven years is what I'm going to take that first step, then that first step will never happen.
SPEAKER_00Never happen. Exactly right. Yeah. So the first step that's exactly why I say stop overthinking, start doing. Uh do some small experiments. Try not to think too far ahead. This is not a game of chess. First of all, it is not a competition, right? It is more of a journey. If you are pointed in the right direction, if you have a North Star and you're going there, then as long as you are moving roughly in that direction for a while, the rest of the journey will um it will appear before you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's like those uh games that we had during our younger days, right? You kind of go to one level, you're clear one level is when the next level will open up. You'll not have all levels opened up right at the beginning of the game. You got to play the game for you to see what's next.
SPEAKER_00Correct. And sometimes the next level will take you down to four levels or something, like a snakes and ladders game. Right? And by the way, the people who win snakes and ladders, I researched this, are not the people who take a lot of ladders. People who win snakes and ladders many times are the ones who avoid the snakes. So it's also a risk mitigation strategy of if you don't make too many terrible mistakes, take sport, for example, take tennis. If you make less unforced errors, most likely you will win the match. Right? So try to avoid big mistakes. That is also another thing to think about in a lattice career.
SPEAKER_01Great. So, Sham, for somebody who has kind of gone down that path, if you were to look back at your own career, what are the three, four ingredients that matter the most to you?
SPEAKER_00It's important to integrate those decisions with life because I think all almost everybody I know who has a good career has also managed to crack the idea of what a good life should be.
SPEAKER_01That's a great point. Career is just a subset of a larger set, which is life.
Avoiding Snakes: Risk And Experiments
SPEAKER_00Correct. In fact, I also respect and admire folks who have not only cracked the career challenge but also the life challenge and are living the life they want to lead, including the career that they want. So it should not feel like they are at uh you know loggerheads um with each other. Uh so something I picked up about I don't know how long ago, but quite a while ago, uh, from the works of Nawal Ravikant. The Almanaka Naval Ravekant is my most gifted book, and his podcast, and whatever he has said, and his tweets are absolutely outstanding. So at some point, you know, in a talk or in a tweet, he said that there are three main things to look out for. And it I had similar thoughts in my head, but kudos to Nawal. He he made it such a pithy three-point piece, which will never leave my head, you know. And I talk about it a lot in my talks and my and my use it a lot in my work. There are three things you need to get right. And the three things are who you are with, where you live, and what you do. Who you are with is your friends, family, you know, close acquaintances, people you spend your most of your time with. Where you live, right? And today's digital nomad age, uh, you know, people seem to have more flexibility, which is fantastic. But be very intentional about the country, the city, the locality, the community, where you live. That is the second biggest uh decision. And the third is what you do, which is your job, your vocation, your profession. What do you do with your time? Right? So who you are with, uh, where you live, uh, and what you do. Now the question is what order is it? What priority? And for a lot of us uh earlier on in our lives, what you do is super important. And then at some point you'll start looking at who you are with, you know, marriage, relationships. And then eventually where you live kind of is dependent on these things and where opportunity takes you. But for me, uh especially for myself and the people I work with who are in their forties and fifties, uh, I would say who you are with is the number one thing. Good, supportive people, good people, people with whom you can spend time with and feel good and happy and calm. Where you live is super important. Pick a place um where the weather suits you, where community has the things that you need, and and so on. If you have kids, there's a good school nearby, all of that. And you may not get everything right, but these are the things to think about. And what you do should align with who you are and where you uh live. I think these are the three main questions any of us should ponder over all the time.
SPEAKER_01And on the same lines, if these are the good ingredients for a good life, good career, what are the ingredients to avoid? What are the not so good ingredients?
Three Life Levers: Who, Where, What
SPEAKER_00Right. Not so good ingredients would be. I'm tempted to just say not that, not that, not that, but that would be I would be avoiding the question. Okay, let me think about, and maybe I'll make this more career-oriented then. Uh, because uh we could talk about mistakes one makes in life, but I think career might be much more useful. Number one, I think again, uh my entire context, Srikant, is about working with people in their goddess fifties. Because by that time, 20, 25 years, uh most people have had some level of success. So I think that whole golden handcuffs uh challenge of I can't leave things behind, I can't leave the money, I can't leave the prestige, I can't leave the uh job. So that kind of I'm I'm handcuffed uh to this and better not do anything else. So I think that is that misleads people into uh uh another 20 years of uh misery sometimes for for many, where they're doing things they don't like at all, but the money and the the golden handcuffs hold holds them back. And very, very similarly, this what behavioral scientists would call the sunk cost syndrome. I've already sunk twenty years here. You know, why should I start afresh? I've invested too much. But the sunk cost syndrome says time invested is God. It's the same reason why you know you went to the theater, you watched half an hour of the movie, you know it is terrible, but then you will still watch the second uh uh one and a half hours or something because you paid the money. But instead you should just leave and go for a walk or you know, go to the mall or whatever and have a nice meal or something. Why torture yourself? But then you paid the money. So now the cost has been sunk. So I I'm stuck with that choice. So it's better to not allow us to be taken over by the sunk cost. Uh don't throw good money after bad. So that is another one. Of course, another one to quote my my my hero, uh Charlie Manga, the late Charlie Manga, who died a few years ago at the age of 99. In fact, his book is always there on my mantle in big blue, The Almanac of Poor Charlie's Almanac is my favorite book. And he used to say the world does not run on greed. The world does not run on greed. It is not greed that drives the world. So Srikada, I'll ask you a question, you tell me, okay. Suppose somebody you know is a millionaire, let's say not millionaire, ten million. Okay, this person has ten million in the bank. Uh, what is the sure and sure sure short way of uh making him unhappy?
SPEAKER_01By showing him somebody who has more money than him.
SPEAKER_00Immediately, right? I mean, okay, fine. You know, I I'm not saying everybody is uh chasing the money and will become unhappy, but Mangal's point was the world does not run on greed, the world runs on envy. So the whole comparison keeping up with the Joneses, you know, they have more, you know, I want his life. Um, and that's a very dangerous um path to be misled on because uh many people, as they say, want the position but not the journey. You know, it's very easy to look at Satya Nadala or any of those big guys and say, I want to be like that. But then what does it take to be like that? You know? The journey is super important. So yeah, so these are some of the few of the things.
SPEAKER_01That's a wonderful line. You want the position but not the journey.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean everyone wants to be CEO, but then uh I know a lot of people talk about why people should be CEO and all of that, but it's uh there's a very interesting piece by Jordan Peterson who said the real question to ask is why would anyone want to be a CEO? Because look at what it takes and look at the effort, right? So, in a way, I would love I I want to see more people want to be CEO because it is not a job everyone wants or can do.
SPEAKER_01And Sham, the conversation here is not about everybody who is in the corporate world for them to start looking out and say, okay, this it's time for me to move on. This conversation is more about giving everybody a perspective that you can still be in the organization, make great stuff for yourself, but don't get stuck with the opposite that I have is only upwards. The opposite can be sideways, the opposite can be inter-department kind of stuff, right? And he also shared some great ingredients in line towards that particular piece. With all of this information, there will still be people who are fancy, I would say, who would say that I would want to test drive this. I don't believe in all of these things, I want to test drive this before I jump onto the bandwagon. How do they go about test driving some of this concept that we have been talking about, some of the ideas that we have been sharing?
Golden Handcuffs And Sunk Costs
SPEAKER_00I think the first step is to decide that you want to test drive and not jump. For example, Shekhan, uh one of the most commonly asked questions to me is why did you take the plunge? And I say, I did not take a plunge. I planned and I moved. There was no plan, there was no jumping off a cliff, actually. Um so I already had done enough experiments and enough uh test drives to know what I want. And by the way, you know, taking the analogy of a test drive, even after doing test drives, you buy a car and six months later you realize you don't like it. It's okay. Your test drive may also be you know leading down. We never know. We never know. I think for this I'd say what's coming to me is Jeff Bezos' uh one-way door, two-day, two-way door analogy. I don't know if your listeners know this, but I'll explain. Bezos is very famous for having said the most important thing in business or in life is to move quickly because the cost of taking too long over a decision is very high. Instead, uh moving quickly and correcting along the way is better. So if you want to test drive, think about a one-way door or a two-way door. Is this a one-way door? If I go through this door, can I come back? And if it says no, you can't come back, it's uh it's like quitting, resigning, and changing jobs. That's a one-way door. It's you may come back, but it won't be a very smooth transition to come back. Uh but a two-way door is something where you move towards something, but then you know that you can easily swivel and come back. Which is what an experiment should feel like. So that frame of saying what's a one-way door, what's a two-way door. For example, when I wanted to make my shift to be a speaker coach, I mean the two-way door was uh trying coaching pro bono and trying to do things. It was not about quitting and becoming coach. So experiments, test driving is a good frame. The additional frame I would add is what are things you can try and come back. Don't think of if I go down that path, I cannot come back. But the framing of it and thinking about the path. It's a one-way, two-way. I think will really help us to and and maybe make time for it, maybe do 10% of your time, 5% of your time, one hour a week, whatever it may be, and get into some discipline of doing something new, side projects. I'm a huge fan of informational interviews, uh, which basically means talk to, like we said earlier, talk to people who are doing what you want to do, ask them questions, you know, how does it feel like? Kind of get a more perspective. So do all of these things, learn more. I mean, learning has become so convenient and accessible. Do a course a week, read a book a week, those typical things and see where it takes you.
SPEAKER_01Wonderful. And Sham, you're no stranger to the journey that you've been talking about yourself. You went down that path, you did some of the stuff that you've been talking about. How did you interpret these signals of change for yourself? Was there any subtle signs that you had? Or are there subtle signs again through your own coaching conversation that you have? Are there signs that people get, and how do they read those signs for them to say, okay, I I I think this is the time, time has arrived for me to make those shifts. Like I said, this is just not a shift move from organization A to B. It can be that those subtle career shifts. I've been doing, say, for example, sales and marketing. Maybe I want to have a stint with H as an example.
Envy, Comparison, And Real Success
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So what are the signs you're looking for? Very tempting to say signs are all internal. Uh I'll just start by saying that a lot of signs are external. People tell you. My one of my main signs was external, actually. My wife had already started seeing me down. I'll tell you a story. My Mondays had become very difficult for me. Towards in a particular role I was really struggling with. And so my wife noticed that and she said, you know, on you're not very present with us on Sundays anymore. You know, Sunday lunchtime onwards, you seem stressed and agitated, and sometimes maybe even angry, and you know, you seem to go into a bit of a shell. And so I was also reflecting, why am I doing that? I like my weekends, what's going on? And then we sat down and spoke about it and realized that I was getting a very serious case of uh Monday blues. Like super serious. Some of the signs are external, you may not know. People might tell you. So surround yourself with well-wishers, that is number one. Second is internal. Let's look at internal. How do you naturally also and then I recognize my internal signs, right? Um, one of the things I do with my clients is uh something called the uh head-heart-gut tech. There are various words, names, and terms for this uh model also. There is something called the Enneagram, if people want to Google it and find it, um, which is a lovely little tool to see if your head, heart, and gut are in sync. And the idea is that uh we should think with our head, we should follow our heart and we should listen to our gut. If they are not in sync, you will feel off balance. Like a Tignan Ayurveda analogy, your doshas are imbalanced. You know, everything is not exactly in sync, and that's creating certain agitation in your body. For example, in a in a lifeslash career situation, your head is saying do this, your heart is saying, Oh, follow that, and gut is saying, Oh, you know, don't do anything, be safe. Head is saying I should go for that high-paying job. Heart is saying, Hey, my passion is calling, yeah, I need really need to do that. And gut is saying, Don't you dare move because you know you have bills to pay. You know, stay where you are. It's trying to keep you safe. How do you how do you reconcile that, right? And that is where it is very important to follow your heart. If you do not follow your heart, your entire system will be completely off sync. But listen to your head to kind of analyze and think about it. Uh, but truly, truly listen to your gut. Your gut is very powerful. But we are not trained to use it. So if you are feeling any imbalance. And head is saying this, heart is saying this, gut is instinct is saying something else. Kind of pause and watch it. There may be something going on.
SPEAKER_01Is there a way method that one can kind of have awareness or develop some of these things? So I I know a lot of many times we hear go with the gut. What's your gut feeling telling you? But is there a method to this madnessing that I get that clarity to head? I know what I need to do through my heart, and my gut says go with it.
Test Drives And Two‑Way Doors
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Simple questions, I mean it's all first two things. Again, every every good decision is made by kind of internal reflections with good questions, plus external validation or inputs, right? So you should do both. For example, for heart, it should be, do I really, really want this? Mm-hmm. If I go down this path in ten years, will I be happy? Heart is all emotions and feelings, right? So will I be happy? You know, these are all any any any coach will help you through this journey of saying, where are your feelings? You know, how do you feel about this? Ten years if you do this, will you be happy? Will you how will you feel? And so on. Heart is saying, what should you do? You know, what do you put a spreadsheet down, put pros and cons. But pros and cons is not heart. And then gut is very, very simple test. You know, take a big decision, right? Go away for some time, take a walk, clear your head, come back and just hit you, ask someone to hit you with that question. And what you say in the next half a second is your gut reaction. That's what a gut reaction is. It's pure instinct. But you need to put yourself in a position where you allow your gut to actually act. And don't think, actually, my gut is saying, but I want to no, hold on. Just ask someone to like, you're having coffee, you're having a chat, tell them beforehand, just ask me this question and hit me with it when I'm unaware, you know, when I'm walking, so just hit me. I've asked my wife to do it sometimes and some of my friends to do it. Just hit me with that question. Whatever you are, and you have to answer immediately on the spot. And it may or may not be what your head and heart say, actually. It may be like, you know what, I just want to quit and take a break. I am exhausted. Fine. But what which what which are you going to choose? That is a tougher question, Srikant. And that will need a lot of work. Will you follow your heart? Will you listen to your head or trust your gut? That decision is hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So that's where where do you leave? Whom do you spend time with? What do you do comes handy.
SPEAKER_00Right? So, for example, there are certain decisions you should take with your heart. Like, again, I'm not giving advice or anybody on this on this podcast, but the way I have done it is where do I who do I want to live with? It's a hard question. You know, and sometimes where do I want most of the time, where do I want to live is a head question. It should be practical. It should be like I was talking to you about my fitness uh schedule. I have to make it close. No, my gym can't be a 20-minute ride in Bangalore traffic, which could become 40 minutes. I'll never go. Correct. So these are certain decisions should be made uh with the head, heart cut in mind. Certain decisions should be only heart, certain things should be some combination of the two. So this is just a way of uh understanding what is going on with change and how to make a decision as well. Both.
SPEAKER_01Shall we have touched upon all of these elements? Still, if the listener listening to this conversation is feeling stuck today, what is that one thing he or she can do to tune into that signal and take that first step?
SPEAKER_00Again, going back to my stop thinking, overthinking, start doing, try to use the power of not yet. Okay. A lot of people have done this uh research on the growth mindset or grit. There are many TED talks on the topic. Carol Dweck's mindset is very famous. So try to move into the growth mindset, not the fixed mindset. The fixed mindset is saying, don't do it, don't do it, be safe, no need to change. Why change? Be safe. Twenty years you've done this, paycheck is fine. What is your problem? That's what the fixed mindset is saying. In the fixed mindset is saying I'm not good. But if the growth mindset comes in, you'll say, I'm not good at something yet. So the word yet is a very powerful one. The first time I did a podcast or came on a talk like this, I felt I'm not good at this, am I? That's the fixed mindset speaking. It's saying be safe. No, stay home, watch Netflix, nothing will happen to you. You'll be fine. But then the growth mindset comes in and saying, I'm not good at this yet. So I will take a look at it as an opportunity to learn and grow. I'm not saying the fear will go away. Fear is not a bad thing. Or being stuck is not a bad thing. All good things come only when you face that fear or try to get unstuck. And just use the word yet and see how that helps.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's a powerful, simple word, but a powerful word. Not yet.
SPEAKER_00So even when my kids come and say, Oh, I'm terrible at this, I say I am not good at this, correct? I'm not good at this yet. That's all. Have you done this? Not yet. You know. Have you uh succeeded? Not yet. I find it a very empowering uh just a normal way of speaking itself.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and it also gives you that uh position of strength, saying that yeah, I am not there yet, but that doesn't kind of take me out of the equation. I'm still there.
Signals For Change: Head, Heart, Gut
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, very simply, if you ask someone how they're doing or what's going on, they'll uh very natural to go into all the problems. Correct. I mean, just think about it. You meet a friend after a while and say, hey, how's it going? And uh they'll say, Yeah, things are going fine, but this is happening, that's happening, economy is bad, and blah da-da-da-da. So, in contrast to the word yet, which you we should use, the word but I have removed from my vocabulary. If I have used it in my podcast, I would love to put it through some AI and check how many times I use the word but. Just removing the word but can completely change the way we look at things and frame our energies because we use the word but as if it is just a connection between sentences. You know, uh, we should just replace it with uh and, and and that's very powerful as well.
SPEAKER_01That's the power of simplicity that you have been sharing with us. Uh Sham, thank you so much for doing that. So, I would want to kind of do a bit of a grazing crystal ball moment uh with you, which is over the horizon. We spoke a lot about okay, how can one prepare for career shifts, career trajectories, uh, how can uh one develop that kind of mindset? Over the horizon is slightly different. What is going to come my way and how can I start preparing towards it? Again, to your earlier point, you might not have complete clarity, but you can still be prepared, right? So, from that standpoint, if you had to coach the future of work itself, what questions would you ask?
SPEAKER_00Very nicely done, Srikant. You're asking a coach for questions. Well done. This is exactly the way it should be. Okay. Done. Um, how will you help us humans uh stay human in what is now becoming a very largely AI-led world? I was just reading so many things about, you know, like LinkedIn. I spent time on LinkedIn, and someone is saying the LinkedIn post is written by AI, it is read by AI, it is commented on by AI. Like for the comment is from AI. So, yeah, so my question is for the future of work is you know, how do we continue to stay human in a very AI-driven world? Then I would say we have gone through a whole journey of what we want from work. I don't know what we the next generation will want from work in the sense of I'm very curious, huh? I very I really want to find out. Um, that if you go back three generations, I would say they wanted stability, security, safe job. Going back to the 50s, 60s, you know, after the world wars and a lot of economic turmoil and all of that. People just wanted to survive and be safe and have three meals and have a roof on their heads. Then that changed to kind of moving up up the l economic um levels and wanting to grow, wanting to, you know, more than just the basics and and also learning. And uh I would say then we move to more of today's world where people want visibility, recognition, more social media, wh whatever social media has done in the last 15 years or so. So my question to uh Future of Work would be what will replace all of these intangibles like security, learning, visibility uh in the future? Because I also don't know. I have no idea what my kids want out of their uh careers. Um and on a related note, you know, what will success be like? Um especially in a world which is uh uh I think uh no longer uh respecting degrees and credentials and titles like it used to. Earlier it used to be very um empowering to say I am from this college and I have this degree and I have this numbers behind me. But I think the world is moving to new currencies at the moment of what um uh metrics and success should sound like.
SPEAKER_01Brilliant. So well articulated. I I know it was very abstract, but you kind of made a lot of effort to kind of I just answered with questions, so I don't know the answers to these. Yeah. So I I'll come a little closer to one finding some of the answers for this. My next question to you was what will matter more than titles, paychecks, and LinkedIn lines in the case of tomorrow.
Simple Methods To Trust Your Gut
The Power Of Yet, Replace But With And
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I will concede that this is something I have answered before. Okay, and so my answer to you is prepared and has been done before. Uh, but I'll repeat it anyway because I have said it a few times and I think people connect with this with this idea what the currencies of the future are going to be. Correct? That's the question. That's right. What is like career currencies, not title, not paycheck, not follower count, and all of that, yeah, which seems to be very popular today. So my currency is the INR for you, like Indian rupee. INR, okay? Which is why I'm saying I've done this before, I'm not making this up on the fly. The INR stands for Impact Network and Renewal. Super. First is impact. Impact is basically people are really not interested in uh what you do, where you studied, uh what your title is. Nobody really I think all that move has already happened, right? People care. Can you get something done or not? Which is why like the UK is seeing a massive surge in apprenticeships again. People want to uh vocationally learn, not theoretically pick up knowledge. I think college degrees are becoming less and less. I'm not saying college college education is gone. I'm saying people are really becoming very, very, very, very methodical about knowing what you can do much more than what courses you have done and all of that. So impact is super important, that's number one. Second is network again, going back to the who do you know, who will help you. And none of this is about political connections and recommendations and all those kind of underhanded words sometimes we use, you know, things are under the table. And this is not about any of that. It's about saying who's looking out for you, who are your champions, who will vouch for you when you're not there, not just your credentials, but your character. Um, if everything is uh the same and if I have to choose between four people, I'll probably choose someone my friend said is a good person. So network is people who know you and much deeper than LinkedIn connections and hi hellos, you know. People who've seen you as a person and you've spent time with. So first is impact, second is network. Uh and network not on the typical handing out business card network type of networking. Network is people who genuinely care and want to see you successful. And you don't need thousand people in this. Yeah. Yeah. You need a few, few handful. Some people have called it relationship capital. And how much relationship capital do you have uh in your network? And the third is renewal. Uh renewal is basically just the acknowledgement that uh unlearning learning is way more important than the skill that you have right now. I had to completely unlearn my corporate work and then learn coaching and education and let go of my ego and try to be more of a service-minded. I'm here to help you. Uh for example, it's very easy for me to just stand here and say, this is all the stuff I know, let me show off. Uh, but then that's not the point. The point is to message it in a way that is succinct and maybe bite-sized and for your audience, for example. So I have to almost kind of renew my learning and uh learn fast to simplify, for example, or to unlearn whatever uh stuff that is causing bad habits. So, yeah. So renewal is about um unlearning, learning, renewing yourself uh into something new. If you're able to again and again reshape who you are, that is becoming very important. So impact network renewal.
SPEAKER_01Lowly. And on renewal, it's very interesting, right? We have nature right in front of us showing this characteristic trait of renewal. Right? The seasons renew, the trees shed their leaves, and the whole renewal happens. But we don't learn from nature.
SPEAKER_00We don't learn from that. Going back to your original question about promotions, right? It's like you can't keep on going up. You have to shed the leaves, then come back again, then go down again. It's like this nice uh wave and the rhythms and oscillations that we have to accept. So this whole treadmill of going up, I think I think the world is already recognizing that. And let's also be honest, not everybody has the luxury of taking breaks and all of that because some people are not um in cultures or organizations that allow it. But then I think it's important.
SPEAKER_01Sham, three micro experiments. If our listeners were to kind of take those small shifts in their career starting tomorrow, what three micro experiments would you recommend?
SPEAKER_00I'll start with the Who again. Uh go talk to a stranger once a week. Yeah, anywhere. Work outside, just say hello to a stranger on the metro, in the road, on the in at the office, doesn't matter. Talk to a stranger. I think the social connect, the human connect is super important. That is one. Second, I'll say probably say Marshall Goldsmith, amazing question he asks, uh, and I use that reflection myself is instead of uh becoming uh too, you know, have I succeeded? Am I just ask a simple question? Am I doing my best to do this? Am I doing my best to have this great conversation on a podcast? Am I doing my best on my podcast? Am I doing my best at my work and my relationship? And if whenever you feel you're not doing your best, try and improve. That's it. So that's another one. Um and maybe the third one is again a difficult one for myself also, but maybe pick uh something that you truly, truly, truly, truly believe and challenge the heck out of it. Like, I believe work-life balance is important to me. Challenge it. Maybe right now, actually, it's not. Maybe you need to be working really hard because that promotion you will get or move that you'll get is so important to you. So maybe in the next two months you put that aside. So, you know, so growth is kind of at the edge of this uh thing called certainty. So certainty is never really good. So keep questioning your assumptions uh and beliefs. Superb.
SPEAKER_01What are three book or podcast recommendations that you can share with our listeners? Apart from uh Neva Zavikant's uh recommendation.
Coaching The Future Of Work
SPEAKER_00Correct, correct. Maybe you can share the photos or links with the podcast uh listeners later. I wanted to show it to you, but no, that's okay. Because all my books are lying around here. Okay. First, understand your relationship with work. And I'll give you the exact names and links later, Srikant, so you can share it with people. Uh the one book that I read every year and I underline every year for the last five years is a book called Crossing the Unknown Sea by David White. He's an Irish poet, and he wrote this incredible book which is called Crossing the Unknown Sea, Work as a Pilgrimage of Identity. So I'll give you the link. It basically, in beautiful terms, talks about what does work mean and what should work mean to you as a person. Why do you work at all? Right? And this is not some kind of highly philosophical version, it is really quite practical as well, the way he writes it. And he's a poet, so he writes beautifully. That one is the relationship with work, and the other two I want to offer contrasting books. One, be a specialist by uh the book is called Lynchpin by Sayeth Gaudin, one of the best books, or you can also read uh Cal Newport's So Good They Can't Ignore You. Uh both books are very good for becoming really, really good at something that you become indispensable. Right? So be good at what you do. That's the message. Or become a specialist. Become really, really good. And then the third uh area is uh generalists, because um this book, I will not exaggerate, changed my complete approach to work. Uh Epstein's book called Range, which is probably the best book written on the topic of generalists. Please, please, please, anyone listening who considers themselves a generalist should read Dave Epstein's uh range. It is an absolutely wonderful exploration into the value generalists bring, and don't feel bad that you're a generalist in what seems to be a specialist's world.
SPEAKER_01You will always hear what would be the advice that you give to your English self. I have a twist to that question. Okay. Ten years out, Shyam, you and I we are doing this podcast all over again. What are those three pieces of advice that you would give to your future self?
New Career Currency: Impact, Network, Renewal
SPEAKER_00Definitely, please continue with the main aspects of what you think is important, which are uh that who you are with, uh where you live and what you do. So don't don't don't lose track of that order because it's working so beautifully. Second, keep kind of as as you keep um learning and changing, uh I've written on LinkedIn about this uh and in my book as well, that one of the biggest mistakes uh that I no longer make uh or no longer uh intentionally make, unintentionally make, I try to uh prevent myself is do not compare yourself with the best at something when you're doing it for the first time. So when you if you any of you are listening and inspired to start a podcast, uh don't compare yourself with Zekanth on day one because he's been doing this for a long time and he knows how to do it. Learn from him, watch him, but don't assume that the first attempt will be that good. It won't, right? So we will learn, we will evolve. So don't assume that your first attempt at something will be as good as the greats, right? So be a beginner, learn from the experts. Uh you always ask for three, no? Keep looking for people who might want something from you. Or stay Be a giver, kind of a stuff. Be a giver. And sometimes people want something from you that you don't expect. So for example, see people have come to me also and asked me to do things that I never thought I could do, or I never wanted to do, or I never considered as an offering. You know, people will come and say, do this, do that. So whenever people are talking about something they might want from you, respect that, listen to them because it may be a blind spot and an opportunity in disguise.
SPEAKER_01Great. So your future self will thank you for these wonderful lovely questions for your future self to remember and implement. The last of the part of three questions for you, Sham. Uh, this is a coaching question for all the reasons. As a coach, you often were by asking questions. What three powerful questions would you want every listener to reflect after this conversation?
SPEAKER_00First, where are you now? Where do you want to go? As simple as that. I call this the point A, point B in my work. What is your point A where you are, and point B where you want to go? And if the answers are not clear, keep working at it. And if the answer is I am very happy where I am, great, fantastic. I don't want to go into the potential answers, but then the question is meant to have a very uh strong sense of clarity. Where am I now? Where do I want to go? Very simple frame, and it'll it'll lead to more questions and explorations. The next one is probably the premortem technique. Uh, very inspired by the pre-mortem, uh, not the post-mortem. The premortem is you know, they ask their question, you know, what would you do if you you know could not fail. I don't particularly work with that question because if you can't fail at all, then you'll just chill. That's my answer personally. So a premortem assumes you have failed. Not only does it assume you have failed, it has gone into the future. You ask me a future question, right? So Srikan, for example, Shrikan, I'll say, Shrikan, three years from now, you right? This is exactly what a pre-mortem question is. Shrikan, your podcast is an absolute utter disaster. In 2020, 2030. Okay. Now you're sitting in 2030, your podcast is a disaster. What did you do in the last five years? So now what happens is, so for example, question somebody's in that 45, I said, You're 50 and your career is a mess. What did you do? So the pre-mortem uh really pushes us to think what things that we might do in the future that causes, but it frames it as the failure has already happened. So there's no finger pointing and all, it's already done, right? So there's no thinking should I should No, it's all over. And then it gives you a very strong sense of uh specifics on uh things. So pre-mortem. Anyone can Google it and learn. And I think the last question is uh again, future-oriented, I'd say uh regret. The question of regret. Uh one of my favorite quotes from Warren Buffett is that we generally regret um decisions of omission and not decisions of commission, which basically means we tend to regret things we did not do rather than regret things that we do. Which means that if we tried and failed, we we'll get over somehow and stumble and figure things out. But things we do not do, like approaching a Krushan school or you know, interviewing for that job, or sending that letter and email to somebody and asking for if we do not do it, we tend to regret. The question is, you know, what are the things in the next one or two years that are in front of you that if you don't do, you are going to regret ten years later? Because those days are gone. I'll tell you, uh people ask me why I did an MBA, Srikanth, and I did my MBA in Cambridge because I decided to move and do other things and say, as long as I'm in Cambridge, if I don't study, I lived there for 10 years. I'm like, I want to move back to India. But then if I've lived here and not done something in the University of Cambridge, I'll feel like such a fool. I said somehow managed to apply, get in, finish it, and I felt so good when I was leaving and returning to India that so I would have regretted it, but then now I don't. I'm very happy with that decision. So last question is uh what is in front of you in the next few years? Um, decisions that should not become a regrettable mission.
Micro Experiments To Build Momentum
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. This was a great power of tea around Shyam. Thank you so much for uh doing this. Uh as we get closer to home then, what's next for Sham?
SPEAKER_00Uh a lot of the same, actually. I'm very pleased with uh my work, um, my career, my life, uh the decisions of uh who I'm with, where I live, what I do. Uh so largely more of the same. Uh but then maybe I'll say something I was sharing with a client uh recently that we were talking about uh more of the same, but then also what keeps us interested and what keeps us going is I came up with a metric for myself which I can share, and others may like to use it. Is that uh every year I look back, um look at what is on my plate, and I'm only talking about careers here, of course. I look at my plate and say, what proportion of my work that I'm doing now did I predict one year ago? Like I had no prediction that I would be talking to you today. Right? One year ago, I had no idea. But in a larger uh context of work, if you look at all the things that you're working on, for me, my my metric has now become as high as 50%. 50% of what I do with my work time should be something I did not know would be on my plate a year ago, which keeps my work fresh. So it could be a new client, it could be a new type of project, it could be a class or learning that I'm doing. That every year I'm trying figuring it out, and new things are coming my way, if that makes sense. So looking at your what is on your plate professionally, and say you say, Oh, what do you mean new things? I mean, everything I do, everything, fine, then put yourself a 10% target, you know, or a 5% target and say, 5% of this stuff I had no idea I was going to do a year ago. It's very empowering, actually. So for me, it has become as high as 50 now, and I'm very glad that I'm holding it uh that way. So, yeah, so if Yasma asked me what next for Sham, 50% more new work next year.
Books For Specialists And Generalists
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. Sham, thank you so much. This was one heck of a conversation. You gave so, so many of uh intellectual kind of reflective thoughts, just not for me, for my listeners as well. Thank you so much for doing that. This show is all about creating ripples of inspiration. Before you and I sign off, what's your inspire someone today message for all of our listeners? Stop overthinking, start doing. We go back to the basics. Stop overthinking, start doing. On that note, Sham, thank you so much for this wonderful conversation. Wishing the very best in all of your endeavors. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Inspire Someone Today. This is Srikant, your host, signing off. Until next time, continue to carry the ripples of inspiration. Stay inspired, keep spreading the light.
