Inspire Someone Today
Inspire Someone Today
E173 | The Gap between Knowing and Living P1 | Portfolio Life Series - Rajiv Vaidyanathan
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You can be smart, informed, and highly motivated and still fail to do the things you swear matter most. That’s not a character flaw; it’s often a pattern. I sit down with Rajiv Vaidyanathan, a professor and researcher in behavioral decision science, to unpack the intention-action gap and the hidden forces that pull us away from our own best plans.
We get practical fast: why “life gets in the way” is true but incomplete, how present bias and hyperbolic discounting tilt us toward short-term comfort, and what actually helps when willpower keeps losing. Rajiv shares simple tools for behavior change that don’t rely on hype, including writing goals down, making the next step concrete, creating social accountability, and redesigning your environment so the right choice becomes easier to execute. We also talk about reactance, that stubborn pushback you feel when someone keeps telling you what you “should” do, and how leaders and parents can avoid triggering it.
From there, the conversation turns personal and surprisingly human: the small moments that shape a life, why open-ended success can be emotionally draining without clear goals, and how micro experiments help you take risks without letting fear run the show. We connect it all to “portfolio life” by separating what we have to do from what we choose to do, then mapping priorities that can evolve across seasons of life, career stages, and family needs.
If you care about decision making, work-life balance, habit formation, leadership, and living with intention, press play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s stuck in the gap, and leave a review with the one trade-off you’re trying to change.
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Quiet Opening And Series Setup
SPEAKER_00You know, in behavioral science, we talk about the intention-action gap. That is something that influences a lot of things that people want to do but don't actually happen. Whether it's in the corporate world or whether it's in our personal lives, we tend to be pretty young. And what we observe our parents doing, what we get rewarded and punished for, does shape the kind of human you become. So I think that's a very important factor. But as we go through life, once we gain our independence, go off to college, go off to our jobs, there are lots of little things that when I think of portfolio life, I divide up my time into two buckets. I think there are things we have to do, and there are things that we choose to do.
SPEAKER_01Not everything that matters needs to be loud. Some conversations help you pause, some help you see differently, and some stay with you long after the end. Welcome to Inspire Someone Today, my dear listeners. A space for honest conversations about life, work, and the choices that shape who we become. No quick fixes, no borrowed certainty, just real stories, thoughtful reflection, and the quiet courage to live with intention. This is Inspire Someone Today, where conversations are human, reflective, and meant to stay with you. Dear listeners of Inspire Someone Today, welcome back for yet another episode. This is continuing a series of portfolio life. There is a strange paradox about modern life. We read the right books, we listen to the right podcasts, we know what matters. And yet, we don't always live that way. We say relationships matter more than work, but our calendars tell another story. We say health is important, but we postpone it. We say we want balance, but we keep choosing urgency. Why does this happen? Is it lack of discipline or something deeper in the way our minds work? Today's guest, Rajiv Vajanatan, has spent years studying exactly that. As a professor and researcher in behavioral decision science, Rajiv explores how people make choices, often irrational ones, even when they know better. But today's conversation is just not about theories and academic models. It's about something much more personal. How do our hidden biases shape the lives we build? Why do smart people make predictable mistakes? And if life truly is a portfolio of choices, how do we learn to make better ones? Let's explore that with Rajiv. Rajiv, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be here.
SPEAKER_01We are delighted to have you on this show, Rajeev. As I said in the intro, this series is about portfolio life, its lived experience, choices, and how life evolves over time. Who better than you with multiple lenses to bring the entire portfolio life to vision to me and my listeners? So when you step back from the roles and titles, how would you describe the season of life that you are in right now, Raji?
SPEAKER_00I think if you if you think of uh uh the year as January through December, you know, the uh winter is the early stage of life. I would definitely say that I am in the fall of my life because I've, you know, I had a full career. I'm starting a sort of phased retirement from my uh job at the university, and uh I've done a lot of things in my life that I'm uh uh very proud of, and of course, some things that I'm not proud of. Uh, but uh I think at this point I'm definitely at that point where I'm looking back on my life and what I've done, as opposed to looking forward with uh with a huge future ahead.
SPEAKER_01When they say you look forward and you look back, that is what gives you a holistic view of what life is all about. And when we talk about portfolio life, even when people know what matters, they often don't act on it. We touched upon it during our pre-conversation. From your experience or observation, why do you think it is?
SPEAKER_00I think you know, in behavioral science, we talk about the intention-action gap. That is something that influences a lot of things that people want to do but don't actually happen, whether it's in the corporate world or whether it's in our personal lives. Your introduction was great, right? We know that we should work out more. We know we should save more money for retirement, but we don't. It's not for a lack of knowledge, it is for a bunch of other reasons. I would say, while there are, you know, I this is not about academic models, there are lots and lots of reasons uh for why there is that gap. But I would say probably the two most important ones. First is life gets in the way. You want to go to the gym every day, but your, you know, kids have to be dropped off at their violin lesson. Or there are always things that happen that need to happen that that prevent you from doing things that you want to do. So that that is one, right? Just context factors that affect. The second thing that makes it very hard to do things that we know are good for us is simply that they often the things that are good for us provide benefits in the long run, not in the short run. So you're you very often find yourself having to give up short-run benefits in order for long-run benefits. And that just doesn't jive with the way our human mind works. I mean, we we operate the to use a technical term with something called a present bias. We're much, we overweight the present and underweight the future. So I think that is the second big factor that prevents us from doing things that we really know that we should be doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, present bias is a good one. Why does our mind trick us like that? We know the benefit is going to be there, but we want the result now. And in the process, you neither get what you want now nor you get what you want at a later part of time. Why does the mind do that?
SPEAKER_00Because you know, the future is uncertain, right? We don't know uh much about the future. So anytime when there's uh probabilistic outcomes in the future, we tend to underweight it. And again, in our field, uh to avoid using too many technical terms, we we call it hyperbolic discounting. When we talk about the future, we underweight the value of what's there in the future, and we overweight what we can get in the present.
Plans And Environment That Force Follow-Through
SPEAKER_01And you did mention about the intention is there, but conflicting priorities come your way for you to fulfill those intentions. And through your own learning, through your own lens of what you have seen, organizations do, individuals do, what would you recommend for somebody who says exactly that? I am I have that intention, but I'm consistently failing on the action bit of it. How can you help me out?
SPEAKER_00I think there are uh several ways of uh fixing this in terms of your personal behavior. The first is have a plan. I mean, you see, sales programs often people will talk about have a plan and write it down. And I think if you know what you want to achieve, rather than just thinking it in your mind, saying, I this is what I want for my future, write down those goals and then the specific steps you need to take now to achieve those goals. I think making it concrete is one clear way in which we can influence our own behavior. So if we have written down steps saying this is what we need to do now, and then not only write it down, but share it with people who you care about you, you know, your family that puts a kind of social pressure on it, that's one technique for forcing your behavior. The other is changing your actual environment to help you perform those behaviors. So, for example, my personal example, even this very week, I know that I should be spending at least some time in the gym, just working out. And I want to. I it's not only that I just want to, I will tell you that it's very important to me, but I have not gone this week at all. Not even once. Why? Because a whole bunch of emails I had to respond to, reports that were due. I said, I have to get this done. So what do I do? Well, one of the things I did that worked very well in the past, which I've now done again, is I have signed up with a personal trainer. So at the gym, there is somebody we're scheduled for 12 to 1, three times a week. The personal trainer is waiting for me. Now suddenly I find I'm able to find the time, right? Because if I don't, I can't tell, call the personal trainer three times a week and say, listen, I'm sorry, I've got a report to do, I'm not going to show up today. I can do that maybe once. But after that, I find I get into that schedule. I know the personal, I put that in my calendar. That is kind of inviolable commitment. And so you create such barriers in your environment to force you to do the behaviors that uh are important to you.
SPEAKER_01The reputational risk is in danger, so you kind of resort to getting things done.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. Exactly. The more you can uh get your goals uh written and uh shared with people that are important to you, the more likely you are to stay with those goals.
When Advice Backfires Into Reactance
SPEAKER_01And are there any other reasons that you see having this rebalancing in life that makes it harder and harder?
SPEAKER_00I think, you know, what we all tend to do is we keep telling people and sometimes even ourselves what we should be doing. You know, our parents tell us, oh, this is what you should be doing, you should be doing this. You tell our your kids this is what you need to be doing. Why are you wasting your time with video games? You need to be doing this. What we don't realize often when we tell people that this is what we should be doing, it actually can have a counterproductive effect. You know, it can result in reactants. We've all felt it. When our parents keep hounding us for something to do, and we react against it. Just to assert our independence, we tend to not do that or find ways to not do that. We know that, we've experienced it ourselves, but still, as adults, we tend to make the same mistake. We tell our employees, here's what you should be doing, here's what as if they don't know. And I think if you leave people, g cut people some slack, let them do things, I I think you'll find that they will be more productive, they will do what you want them to do without hammering them over the head with it.
SPEAKER_01I think that's a good one. And Raji, where you are from your vantage point, if you were to now look at it, there are instances where things would have shaped you as a person. Life would have shaped you. It might not have been important, it might not be the cool thing at that point of time, but now looking back, you would feel, okay, that is what made you to who you are in some shape and form. What would those moments be?
SPEAKER_00You know, of course, the most obvious answer is that we are shaped to a huge extent by our parents. All when our values are being developed, when our uh basic uh behavioral modes are being developed, we tend to be pretty young. And what we observe our parents doing, what we get rewarded and punished for, does shape the kind of human you become. So I think that's a very important factor. But as we go through life, once we gain our independence, go off to college, go off to our jobs, there are lots of little things that seem insignificant, but actually have a surprisingly large effect on you. I can think of one example, right? When I came to the US to do my MBA in the 80s, and as soon as I finished my MBA, I got a job at a at a bank. And they put me on a project that uh I really enjoyed working on, my first real job in the corporate world. And I finished the job and went to my boss and said, Here is that report that you wanted. And she said, Oh, that's great. And she looked a little uncertain. And it turned out, I found out later, that that was supposed to be a six-month project they put me on. And I was like six weeks into my job, barely a month and a half into it. And she said, Oh, don't worry, Rajiv, we'll find something for you to do. And they did. They they put me on a really great, interesting project that affected my life quite a bit later. But the point is, at that point in the 1980s, there was no internet. In fact, on my desk at work, there was not even a computer. It was a word processor, and all I could do was word processing on that machine. And there were several days where I had nothing to do. Literally, I was waiting for material to come in via the regular US mail. And I found that extraordinarily painful. There were days I would go around, ask people, is there anything I can help with? And they, everybody was busy, everybody's doing their job, and they'd say, no, no, we're fine. And I would sit there and stare at the clock, waiting for it to hit 4.30 so I could go home. And what that taught me about myself is that I am much happier. I'm much more satisfied with my life when I have way too much to do than when I have nothing to do. I get bored so equally. I found it so effortful to create work when I didn't have any work to do, that I know it has shaped my life. People often ask me, why you always take on more and more jobs? Why do you take on so many things? And I think it was shaped by that experience. That I said, you know, if I have too much to do, I know I can manage it. I know I can fill my time. If I don't have enough to do, I'm terrified of the idea of not having enough to do.
SPEAKER_01And so that's an interesting take on that. And drawing on that, I would want to kind of get your thoughts on. We all achieve success during the course of our life and careers. And sometimes, even though externally that success means a lot, it's you who knows emotionally how draining it was. Not every success, but some of those. Have you had those kind of moments and how did you deal with those kind of moments?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think we've all we've all had those kinds of uh moments. I remember when I was the director of graduate studies. So I was uh at the University of Minnesota, which is where I work, I was the director of the MBA programs there. And and I did find everybody appreciated what I did, but I found that job very, very difficult because they were, I was just left on my own to run the MBA program. You said, you're in charge of the MBA program, you run it, you decide, you make all the decisions, you decide what. And there were no clear performance guidelines given to me. There was no externally imposed set of achievements that said, okay, this is what we will consider to be success. They said, run the MBA program. And I found that very, very difficult. It was it was very, very exhausting draining because I ended up turning it into a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week job. Because there was never, I never knew when I was done, when was enough. There was never any external bar. And so I put in way, way more time on that than I think maybe was needed. And uh it taught me the importance of setting, you know, clear, measurable goals, not only for others, which I think I do uh very quite a bit now. I set try to make sure people who work for me have very clear goals in terms of what would success look like, but even for myself, I think that's what that taught me.
SPEAKER_01Interesting. And for somebody who has specialized in the field of behavioral science, if I were to ask you, tell us about the art and the science of how decisions are made.
SPEAKER_00I think there are several factors that influence how we make decisions, right? The first factor is we we tend to be, lots of research has shown that we're very bad at estimating our own emotions in the future, right? We all have setbacks in life. You know, I went through a very difficult divorce. My uh my dad passed away just a couple of years ago. These are things that happen to most people. You lose your job, uh, some uh family member has an accident. You know, everybody goes through setbacks in life. It is impossible to go through life without those. And if you ask now, how would you feel if your child was killed in an accident or something like that? Your emotions, you say, oh my God, I don't think I'd be able to move on with life. I mean, something that devastating, something that would destroy everything that's important to you, you feel that it's going to pretty much you can't even imagine life after that, returning to normal. But the reality is that all of us get back to living our lives. Even people who have experienced really, really heartbreaking and devastating tragedy, at some point they get back to living their lives. But when we are thinking about the future, we're very bad at estimating that emotion. We're very bad at thinking about a time after the setback. And so our lives tend to be dominated by these not reality, by our perceptions about how we will feel in the future. And so as a result, we tend to be very reluctant to take risks. And I think that is a basic uh failing. If I was to say there's one thing that we can do or do better, is uh to realize that even if we fail, which is likely, even if we fail, the impact of that failure in the long run is minimal. And so I tell my students, for example, I said, I know it's difficult to take a risk, to come up in front of the class and talk to people because you're so scared of what if I look like an idiot. Right. But do things what you should strive to do is every week or every month or every day, whatever it works for you, try to do something that is slightly outside your comfort zone. You don't need to take the big jump off the cliff, but do something that you know is outside your comfort zone, that that you're you're not sure whether you will succeed or fail. By taking these little jumps rather than huge leaps, I think that's the best way to grow as a human. And it's hard to do. I do it. I mean, when I'm asked to do a talk or thing, I would say pretty much every single time and say, I don't know if I can do this. When you ask me to do this podcast, I'm saying, me, podcast, I I don't know if I have anything interesting to say. Why would I look like a fool? And what if Srikanth goes and posts this online and people listen to this and say, what the heck? But then I tell myself, what is the risk? It's just it's not going to ruin my career if this is a huge disaster of a of a podcast. So that's what I advise people. Do little things that put you out of your comfort zone. That's the way you grow.
SPEAKER_01We're recommending create intentional discomforts. That's a path for you to kind of grow.
SPEAKER_00If you're not uncomfortable on a regular basis, if you're not questioning yourself and your abilities on a regular basis, you are stagnant. I'm telling you that. You are not growing as a human.
SPEAKER_01And the way to do it is take some of these simple micro experiments to do so.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. I love that concept of micro experiments. Do it, consider it as an experiment. That should be your mindset. That you're you know that there's a probability of failing. You know that up front. So that takes the pressure off. You say, hey, listen, if it fails, big deal. In the big scheme of things, Rajiv told me that I'm overweighting my emotions, how bad I'll feel if I fail. The truth is, a week after that failure, you're not even going to remember it.
A Public Failure That Improved His Work
SPEAKER_01I think that's a great reframing of perspective to have as well as you, isn't it? At the moment, it might seem to be insurmountable. Five years from now, ten years from now, what's a big deal about it?
SPEAKER_00I had some, I remember one huge, huge failure early in my career. I mean, it was really significant. I was given the opportunity to teach at a top business school, had an executive program. And they asked me whether I would run the marketing module for this is a specialized program. It was at a resort for very senior executives, company executives. And I was very excited. I said, Oh my gosh, I get to present my marketing. Insights to these executives. So I went for this, I signed up for it, they did this course, and it was a complete failure. I mean, it's so bad that at the end of the module where the students or the executives actually do a presentation on what they learned, they actually mocked us. They made fun of me in that thing because I focused so much. I said, these are executives, they need to know advanced marketing strategy skills. So I went into a lot of the academic, advanced level marketing knowledge. And it's only much later I realized when I grew older that that is not what executives are looking for. They're looking for something that they can apply immediately. And uh since then, so that was a huge failure. I mean, they never invited me back to do another um module at that uh, you know, executive program. But today, I go up and I speak to, I do lots of executive seminars, I do corporate workshops, and it goes very, very well. I have people think, wow, that was the most insightful seminar I've ever attended. That was great. And does that did that huge failure, and and I felt it was a failure, right? I it felt bad when I was told that that was a disaster. But has that impacted me in the long run? No. In fact, it actually helped me a lot. It helped me analyze what went wrong. What should I have done differently? That was what my focus was, not oh my God, I'm ruined, I'll never be able to do this again. So it it motivated me to do more of it, not less of it.
SPEAKER_01Failure always propels you to do more than what success does to you, isn't it? Exactly.
SPEAKER_00You know, I even even people I hang out with, I I've noticed this about myself. I actually don't enjoy my time with people who tell me that I'm right. If you're telling me, wow, Rajiv, that is really great. That is fantastic. Well, you know, that's nice, of course, it makes me feel good for a short period of time. But if that's what happens every time we interact, I lose interest. Saying, I'm learning nothing from this interaction. Where I get really excited is where people disagree with me. And they say, Well, I I see it completely differently. I think this is how things work. And I feel like, oh my God, that's really interesting. Tell me more. And those are to me the most invigorating and exciting conversations with people.
SPEAKER_01And drawing back on the theme of uh portfolio life, when you hear this whole concept of life as a portfolio, what does it bring up for you personally?
SPEAKER_00For me personally, I think when I think of portfolio life, I divide up my time into two buckets. I think there are things we have to do, and there are things that we choose to do. And often we mix up those. We are not very good at separating those two parts of our lives. When we are young, I think it is necessary for there are certain things we have to do. We have to do certain things for our careers, we have to spend more time at work than we actually want to. Uh, who wouldn't want to spend more time with their children and less time at work? Everybody wants to do that. But uh but there are things we have to do. We have to build our careers and and build our uh wealth and build uh our reputations, whatever it is. But then I think what happens is we tend to lose sight of things that we uh choose to do. That uh if we had the freedom to spend our time, this is what we want to do. And these two are interactive. The things we have to do should not uh overwhelm our uh desire for the things that we choose, we would choose to do. So we have to understand the things we have to do are feeding in to the things we want to do. So when you feel overwhelmed, when you feel that, oh my gosh, I'm spending so much time at work, I think it's worth stepping back and asking yourself, how much of this do I need to do in order to get the level of success that will give me the freedom to do what I want to do or I would choose to do. And it doesn't come naturally. I think we don't take a long-term view with present bias. We talked about it earlier. We tend to focus more on the present. And if we just think about these two buckets and realize that at times, yes, it is okay to feel that we are spending more time at work than we want to, it's it's okay as long as you realize the goal is to achieve the bigger things. You have a plan, you know why you're doing this, and you know there will come a time when you will have the ability, the freedom to do what you want to. And making that switch is often hard. And I think when you asked me right at the beginning of this conversation, what uh season in my life do I consider myself to be? I think I'm at that season of life where I have the luxury of switching over to focusing a lot more on things that I want to do rather than things I have to do. And that's only because I had these clear buckets and I planned my life to get to this point.
SPEAKER_01I think that trade-off is a key of what is that you would want to do and how do you make those trade-offs. So, did you practice to get to this point? What were some of the things that you kind of looked at to arrive at this point to say that this is the trade-off I'm willing to live with? Or this is a trade-off I don't want to be willing to live with.
SPEAKER_00I think when I was pretty young in my career, somebody asked me to write down my key values. How do I decide how I should spend my time? All of us have the same amount of time. That is one thing you have to understand. Every single, when we look around at people around us, we see some people are incredibly productive and some people are not, and some people are struggling to get things done. What is the difference? Given that we all have the same amount of time, how is it that some people are able to apparently get a lot more done in that same amount of time? And I think what we people who are successful do is they have very clear priorities. They know, they have written down priorities. For me, I remember at a very young age, somebody said, Write it down. What are your priorities? And I said, absolutely, number one, I wrote it down. In fact, I still have that spreadsheet somewhere. This was 25, 30 years ago. I think I wrote down kids are number one. So what that means is that at that point, if if I have to make a choice between spending my time with something the kids need or something else, I will choose the kids. So kids was always number one. And second thing was work. I knew that is what for me was going to give me that freedom to do what I want to do, is to make sure I do the best I can at work. So that was my second priority. Third is broader family. When I say family, I mean, you know, my parents, my relatives, keeping connected socially, and then friends and things like that, you know, hanging out with friends, going for movies, going to a bar, sharing a beer with friends. All of those are these are all priorities. I think these are important in my portfolio of life, right? For most people, this is important. But the the trick is how do you decide where how where you should spend your time? And for me, it was very clear. So I did end up, and in hindsight, now looking back, is that priority correct or not? I'm not sure. Because I think one of the reasons for my divorce was once we got kids, we focused, both my wife and I focused completely our attention on the kids, and we lost sight of each other a little bit. That that became a lower, lower priority. Spending time with each other, being there for each other became less important than being there for the kids. I think both of us had kids in number one. And then for me, work was number two. And that was easy because at that time, my my wife was at home with the children. So she was taking care of the kids during the day. I said, my priority is to make sure I'm the breadwinner. I have to make as much money as I can and be as successful as I can in my career. So deciding how to spend my time. Once I got divorced, it made life actually easier because I went to my boss, went to my dean, and said, Hey, just to be clear, I have my kids half the time. And when I'm with the kids, that comes first. I said, if that means that I'm not going to make it to a committee meeting, I'm not able to do something at work, I'm telling you right now that my choice is very clear. I will never put work over the time with the kids when I have them. The rest of the time, of course, when my ex-wife has the kids, I'll spend time with work. So I think having that written down made it very easy, made it easy to go to my boss and say, this is how it's going to work. If that's a problem for you, let me know because I need to know that upfront. And of course, uh I was I've been fortunate to be in a workplace where they've been extremely supportive. In fact, they encourage a good balance and you know personal lives as in addition to work.
SPEAKER_01And that's a brilliant point you made, as well, Raji, is as much as you prioritize, have that clarity, it's also important to figure out which stage of your life that you are in for you to change those priorities as well. Right? What is priority when you're may not be the priority as you kind of advance, but to have that clarity is so, so very important.
Prioritisation, Delegation, And Letting Mistakes Happen
SPEAKER_00Exactly. I think you've made a very critical point that you have to understand that these priorities change. We talk about how important values are. Our values should be changing as we move through our careers. Our priorities should be changing as we move through our careers. I remember um a boss of mine once told me, my one bean, when I was taking over as department head. So I was taking over as department head of my department at the university, and I said, How do you manage so many responsibilities of department head? And he said, Rajeev, there's really only one key skill you need for the job, and that is prioritization. You have to know what it is worth spending time on and what it is not worth spending time on. And I think that really was a huge insight for me because everything I did, I focused on that. And I realized when you've got so many things to do, I mean, it was just an unending kind of job. I realized there are some things that don't have a huge impact on the long-term health of the department. I was very comfortable delegating that. We have very, very knowledgeable, talented staff. I don't need to micromanage decisions, or you know, how they're making decisions on things that don't have long-term impact. So I would just let them do it. Leave them, they would come to me, I'd look at it and say, listen, I trust you. I'm sure this is great. Go ahead. The faculty in the department, these are talented, smart people. Let them do their job. I don't need to be supervised. But there are some things that affect the long-term health of the department. That in terms of negotiating resources for the department, making sure we get faculty lines, making sure the things that have big impact. That's where I spent a lot of time. I spent a lot of time preparing justifications to the leadership on why we need more resources. But the day-to-day thing, let it go. Will that result in some mistakes? Of course. But the impact of those mistakes are trivial. You can overcome those, you can fix those mistakes easily. So allow people to make mistakes and realize that it's those are fixable and those are not worth spending time on.
Closing Reflection And Next Part Tease
SPEAKER_01Raji, if you look at your portfolio, it part of your portfolio has compounded or grown silently over the years. Thank you for spending this time with us. Conversations like these remind us that good doesn't always come from answers, it often comes from better questions. Not to grand gestures, but to everyday choices. That belief still holds now with a little more depth and a lot more listening. But this story is only half. Get back for the next part of this conversation and much, much more. Thanks for listening, my dear visitors.
