E173 | The Gap between Knowing and Living P2 | Portfolio Life Series - Rajiv Vaidyanathan

Part 2 of this 2-part conversation with Professor Rajiv Vaidyanathan.

Two invisible forces shape almost every awkward moment, workplace conflict, and relationship argument: we want to feel good about ourselves and look good to others. When either one feels threatened, we snap, defend, withdraw, or blame. We sit down with Rajiv to unpack how behavioral science and self-awareness can help us catch that reaction in the moment and respond with clarity instead of heat.

We talk through a simple practice that changes conversations fast: when something irritates you, pause and ask what feeling got triggered, then name the impact with “here’s what you said made me feel.” That shift protects dignity on both sides and makes space for repair. We also move into leadership and parenting, where empathy becomes a real skill rather than a vague ideal. Instead of assuming people are lazy or careless, we learn to ask better questions and uncover the circumstances that drive behavior.

From money to meaning, Rajiv challenges the default habit of overinvesting in depreciating assets and underinvesting in appreciating experiences. He lays out a practical life-satisfaction framework built on time, health, and wealth, and explains why the “right” priority changes across seasons of life. Along the way, we dig into present bias, the objectivity illusion, and opportunity cost, plus a concrete weekly experiment: 30% discomfort, one brave action that stretches you and shrinks fear.

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Transcript

What People Really Want

SPEAKER_01 0:00

There are two things at the very core that every human being wants. And if you can deliver this to them, you will be extremely successful on an interpersonal basis. We always tend to overinvest when we're young on things and underinvest in experiences.

Turning Irritation Into Insight

SPEAKER_00 0:22

Not everything that matters needs to be loud. Some conversations help you pause, some help you see differently, and some stay with you long after they end. Welcome to Inspire Someone Today, my dear listeners, a space for honest conversations about life, work, and the choices that shape who we become. No quick fixes, no borrowed fertility, just real stories, thoughtful reflection, and the quiet courage to live with intention. This is Inspire Someone Today, where conversations are human, reflective, and meant to stay with you. If you look at your portfolio, which part of your portfolio has compounded or grown silently over us?

Leading With Empathy At Work

SPEAKER_01 1:17

I think there are two things that I think I've grown a lot over the years. First is self-awareness. And I think that's because of what I study. I study human behavior. I study, you know, behavioral science. So for me, it is fascinating. The easiest subject to study is myself. So I am constantly analyzing my own reactions. And I think that has really helped me grow as a person. What I mean by that is there are things that people say, that things that happen in my environment that really irritate me. Right? All of us have experienced. Somebody says something, you say, what the you get upset, that instant reaction of anger or frustration. Every time that happens, almost instantly, now it's by practice it has become natural. Almost instantly, anytime I get irritated by something, I stop and say, What is it about what that person said or how they said it that irritated me? What is it? What actually caused the irritation? And it always comes down to here's why it irritated me. It made me feel a certain way. It made me feel like I am unimportant to them. It made me feel that I'm going to be embarrassed in public. And when I do some of my workshops, I say, if you look, what is it that all human beings want? There are two things at the very core that every human being wants. And if you can deliver this to them, you will be extremely successful on an interpersonal basis. I mean that in terms of relationships with your partner, I mean that with your kids, I mean that with your employees if you want to be a good leader. There are two things you have to understand that every human being wants. Number one, they want to feel good about themselves. Number two, they want to look good to others. Every one of us wants to look good to others, feel good about ourselves. And anytime we feel that those two things are being threatened, we react against it. We get upset. So your wife will say something to you, and instantly you say, you know, what the heck do you mean by that? I am the one who sat and did that. Instead of doing that, I'm saying, when I feel that, before I say anything, I think about why did I feel that irritation when she said that? And I say, Oh my gosh. The reason I felt irritated when she said that was because she implied that I am lazy, that I'm doing nothing. And I know I'm working like a dog. So instead of reacting, I usually pause and I'll say, Here's what you said made me feel. Is that and 99.9% of the time they say, oh no, no, that no, of course not. That's not what I meant. Here's what I meant. And they will rephrase in a way, I'll say, oh, okay, I can go and and fix it. Uh even with employees. I mean, I think the worst bosses are those that make their employees feel like they're not worthy, that they're not doing a good job. And I can tell you, if you're a boss, that is not true. There is not a single human being who goes to work wanting to do a bad job. It does not happen. It is not possible unless you're some kind of psychopath, right? I there's always a fringe portion of population. Vast majority don't. So what you should do is when somebody doesn't meet your expectations, is not to call them into your office and say, hey, listen, you're just not doing a good job. Because the moment you do that, that person is thinking, let me explain to you. What the hell do you mean? I am working like a dog, I'm doing. They're not thinking. Instead, when I was, you know, when I'm leading a group, I will say something like, you know, this stuff didn't get done. And I know you're really good at this stuff normally. Tell me what's going on. Just let them talk. Tell me what's going on. And you will hear all kinds of stories. You will realize that people are dealing with all sorts of issues that you could never have imagined. And over time, what that builds is empathy. And that's what makes you a good leader. That's what makes you a good parent. That's what makes you a good partner. You realize that most people's behavior is driven by their circumstances, not by their person, not by the person they are.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Lauli, I think you gave something for each one of us to chew on. And I'm more intrigued. Somebody who looks at human behavior, I would want to ask you a couple of more things around this. What do people tend to underinvest or overinvest across a lifetime?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

I think some of it is natural, but we always tend to overinvest when we're young on things and underinvest in experiences. And I think that's natural. It's not meant to be a criticism. I was the same way. I think most of us, when we are young, when we're starting to build our careers, the first time we start making some real money, what do we do? We want to get that new car. We want to get that audio video system. I was so proud when I was young of my I built this incredible A V system. I always considered myself an audio-visual enthusiast. I had a massive projector, big screen. I bought the best speakers, subwoofer, sound. I would invite people into my home and say, let me play this for you. I'll have some high-resolution audio and I'll play this surround sound thing, and they'll be blown away. And I'll say, Yeah, that's how I enjoy music. And nothing wrong with that, right? I mean, that's what remember, what are the two things that all human beings want? We want to look good to others, we want to feel good about ourselves. And acquiring things help me achieve both of those things. Help me feel good about myself as an audiovisual enthusiast and help me look good to others. I would subject anybody who came to my house to this surround sound experience and blow them away. But as you go through life, I think you realize that almost anything you buy starts depreciating in value immediately. This incredible surround sound, audio-visual projector system that is outdated five years from when you bought it. You may have put a ton of money into it, but then your friend, you go to their house and they've got the latest, greatest, even better sound system than you have. Instead of 5.1, they've got 7.1. And now you actually feel dissatisfied with what you've got. The interesting thing about experiences is that they grow in value over time. All of us have had some kind of a vacation where everything went wrong. The flights got delayed, you got stranded, you went to a beach, it poured with rain, and nothing. Think about your worst travel experience that you had in your life. And now think about how you talk about it. When you talk about it, you say, oh my gosh, let me tell you about that. It actually becomes a great story you share with people. Everything went wrong. I remember my first trip to India with my family, my uh, you know, mother-in-law, you know, my wife was American, and a mother-in-law, we made a trip to India and we got on a train and there was a dead body on the train. Somebody had actually died, and the the police would refuse to clear that body. So we went on that whole train ride with this body and thing. It was a horrifying experience. Homeless person dead on the train right next to our birth. But today, when we talk about it, we we still laugh and talk about that. That experience actually gains value. It's more fun to talk about that horrible experience now. Whereas I'd be embarrassed to talk about my home theater system today, because by today's standards, that was not that great. So I think I that may be a long answer to your question, but I think we underinvest in experiences, the value of experiences, and we overinvest in things like cars and TVs and things that that depreciate.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

And then say, okay, what I did in my life all through years, I kind of going back to the priorities. I got the priorities flipped. If only I can focus more on experience earlier on, I can have a greater life than focusing. Nothing wrong in getting things, but with things, add on the experience layer. I and I agree.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

And I think it ties into what you said earlier about intentional discomfort, right? Go and do something, you know, especially in the Indian culture, this idea of taking a gap year after you finish high school, take a year off before you go to college, that is not part of our culture at all. It is study, study, study, get your things done. And I am realizing that maybe that's not the best path for everyone. I think when you're young, there are certain things you can do when you're young that become much harder to do when you're when you're older. And I think it's worth taking time to have some of those experiences when you're when you're young, that you can look back on and are glad that you did it. And taking one year off, I promise you, and this I this message goes out to all parents and and children, I guess. If somebody takes a year off before they go back to college, the impact on their lives and careers and you know resources is minimal, if anything. Again, this is experience building. Right, exactly. Building experiences. You're investing in things that appreciate over time and not in things that depreciate over time.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Wow. Raji, if you were to connect the dots across your experiences, what truth about living well feels scared now than ever?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I think for me, it's very, very clear that we tend to live in the present and are very, very bad at judging the impact of our behaviors in the long run. We have three things that impact our satisfaction with life. The three things that all of us have that affect our life satisfaction are time, health, wealth. And the difficult thing is optimizing those three things, prioritizing those three things over our lifetime. Right? When we're very young, when we're going through school and things, we have actually quite a lot of time to do fun things. We have an incredible amount of health. Most young people are pretty healthy. What we don't have is the money to do the things that make us happy. When we get to the middle of our careers, when we are doing well at work, we've built some wealth, we've got the money, we've got some level of health, but what we don't have is the time. Why? Because you're working, you're building a career. You can't take a month off and go and do something fun because you're you're working. When we get to our later life, we tend to have time. We're retired now. We're not so committed to being at work every day. We have definitely have the wealth. What we don't have is the health to do crazy things, right? To do things, those experiences that we talked about. So how do you optimize these three factors, knowing that they are changing over the course of your life? And that's where my advice to people is if you understand that what you're trying to do is optimizing these three elements: time, health, wealth, then you will naturally start to say, maybe I should prioritize some of those experiences, some of those things that I can only do when I'm young, when I am young. Even if it costs me money, even if it means going to my parents and asking them for a loan or something to do some of those things. And then as we get through the middle of life, we recognize that our priority should be the wealth building. Why? So that when you get to your later point, you have that wealth to do some of those things with the time that you now have.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Beautiful. Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. I I think it's a trifector of uh time, health, and wealth and goes back to how do you balance, how do you prioritize it. And every decision we make involves a trade-off between these two things. And in your long association, Raji, working with organizations, leaders, students, what have you seen as evolution of human behavior for good?

Present Bias And Objectivity Illusion

Opportunity Cost Makes Choices Real

SPEAKER_01 14:28

I think over time uh we have seen people, I think what behavioral science has taught us is some of these factors where we, without realizing it, you know, you use the word irrationality, which I don't particularly like irrational, because they're rational for us at that point in time. But still what is objectively seen as irrational by some people is this idea that we make decisions that don't optimize for our life satisfaction, right? If there are three behavioral science principles I could say have influenced how I live my life, I would summarize it as these three things. First is what we've already talked about, which is the present bias. The present bias is we tend to overweight the present and underweight the future, right? And as a result, when we overreact to failures because we think that'll have a greater impact on the future than they actually do, uh, we also um underestimate our uh future well-being and the benefits that we will uh get in the future for our current behaviors. So that is number one, right? One behavioral science principle. The second one is what is known as the objectivity illusion. We go through life behaving based on our thoughts and experiences in life. That's natural. Obviously, your behavior is going to be influenced by what you think is right. The problem with that is that what is clear and objective to you, because you have immediate access to your own thoughts and experiences, you do not have access to somebody else's thoughts and experiences. So what seems reasonable and objective to you is seen as unreasonable and not objective to the other person because it's reasonable and objective to them. George Carlin, who is a comedian, great, great comedian with fantastic insight, he would tell this joke. He would say, Have you ever noticed that anybody, when you're driving in the highway or something, anybody driving slower than you is an idiot and anybody driving faster than you is a maniac. Right? So it doesn't matter because you you're driving at a certain speed because you think that is reasonable for the conditions. If somebody flies by you, you're saying, what the heck is wrong with a maniac trying to kill somebody? If somebody's driving slower than you, you say, Come on, what are you doing? Get moving. Not realizing that for that person who is sitting in that slow car, you are the maniac when you drive by them. Right? So that is why anytime at work, we think we all of us go through life thinking that we are the hardest working person at work. We say, oh my God, all the stuff I'm doing. Look at these other people. They're doing nothing. Every time I go by their office, their office door is closed. What are they even in there? Are they working? Where the heck are they? That's what is going through our heads. What we don't realize is every time we're in a meeting, every time we go for a conference and uh our meeting with a client or something like that, our office door is closed, right? People are coming by and saying, Rajiv, what the heck? He's never in his office. Is he even working? He's supposed to be department head, I'd never even see him here. If we had a conversation, I would say, hold on a second, let me tell you what I've been doing, right? But that's not how we think. And so that results in a very biased view of other people. And the moment we realize that, we realize that what is reasonable to us is unreasonable to other people and vice versa, it builds this empathy. So that's uh the second principle, I would say. The third principle that I think everybody should understand and learn is this idea of opportunity cost. Anytime you decide to spend resources on something, and when I say resources, I mean time or money. It doesn't matter. Anytime you spend your time or spend your money on something, you have to realize it's not just you're spending my time and money on that thing. You're making a conscious choice not to spend time and money on alternatives. And that thinking has completely changed how I operate my life. It is not that I'm sitting here getting this report done. My conscious thought is it's I'm making a decision to spend time finishing this report instead of going to the gym. Right. And by forcing myself to think about alternative uses of my time, I end up making much more conscious choices. Right. Now I can't say, oh, I never had time to go to the gym. That's not true. I made a conscious choice to spend time on this report instead. And by doing that, by making it conscious, I can then more effectively evaluate whether that is consistent with my priorities. I can say, you know what? It's okay. Yes, at this point in time, this report is more important than working out. But then I'm not complaining to people, oh, I don't have the time to do this, I don't have the time to spend with my kids, I don't have the time to uh watch movies, I don't have a no, you all everybody has the same amount of time. You're just choosing your to spend your time differently. And don't let anybody else judge you on that. Don't let anybody else say, well, you know, why are you spending time watching TV shows? Maybe no, if that's what brings you happiness, do it. Just realize that that is your conscious choice. By watching that TV show, you are sacrificing something, spending that time on something else. Same thing with money. I when I bought when I changed my behavior about buying things, it was because of that. I would say, okay, I really want a new car. Oh my gosh, these new cars with all these features, they look fantastic. But then I realized, I'm saying, okay, if I spend$30,000 on this car right now, that is if it at 8% or 10% interest in 20 years, that is whatever,$300,000 that I would have in my retirement account. Am I willing to give up$200,000 in my retirement account to get a new car now? And the moment I think that way, I think, oh my gosh, that would be nice to have. I'm not gonna lie, but I don't I don't want it that much.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

It would be liberating. Just that thought to have that would be so liberating.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

So all my choices about time and money become very conscious about what I'm giving up. I put more emphasis on what I am giving up by doing this as opposed to that thing itself.

The 30 Percent Discomfort Challenge

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Raji, we have shared wonderful nuggets through the course of this entire conversation, and I'm ready for one more. If you were to kind of recommend or suggest a small experiment for all of us listeners to do this week towards a more balanced life, where might they start? We've already talked about this.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

Simple. 30% discomfort. You should aim this week to think about something that you know would be good for your development. Getting up in front of strangers and talking, going out and striking up a conversation with somebody that you don't. Know, whatever to what what are your big fears that you you think are holding you back? Right? We've come full circle to from where we started, which is that we we often are held back by our own fears. We think people are going to react a certain way when in reality it's not like that. Right? So the solution to that. So we started with that problem. I would say a great way of closing that circle is specific advice on what you should do. Try doing something today, this week, that you know will make you uncomfortable. You know that it's probably a good thing to do, something you've wanted to do, but you're just a little scared. Going to your boss and asking for a raise. I don't care what it is. It could be work, it could be personal, it could be telling your wife something that, you know, I just want to know that last week when you said that, it made me feel bad. It whatever it is, I I'm I I think there's infinite possibilities here. But something that you know you want to do, but you're scared of doing. Give it a shot. Just do it. Just do it. And you will find, even if it doesn't work, even if it has negative consequences, it'll feel liberating. You did it. It'll give you an incredible superpower. You will realize that you can do these things over time that are uncomfortable and they don't turn out as bad as you thought it would. And that is an incredible, that'll accelerate your growth as a person when you realize I can do these things that I thought would be awful, but are not as awful as I thought.

Two Books That Shifted Priorities

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Right. Thank you. A book or an idea that quietly shaped how you think about life or people.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Mm-hmm. I think um things that in the last several years, things that have shaped uh a lot of what I do. There's a there's a finance book called Die With Zero. And what that book taught me is that vocabulary that I shared with you, which is that life, a happy life involves optimizing the three factors that can affect your happiness: time, health, wealth. And that book gave me that language. It's stuff that I knew, but what it, and I said, oh my God, that makes complete sense. And if we consciously try to optimize those things over our lives, we end up being much happier. I'm in a place that I'm very, very happy about. I think uh, you know, even when it comes to at my stage of life, where it is less about accumulating wealth than about spending my wealth. I think Indian families, speaking from my parents and you know, experience with my parents, are particularly bad. We are taught our entire lives to save, save, save, save, save, save. You know, you need to save money, you need to save money, you weren't gonna live. We are never taught uh how to spend money. We're never taught how to at what point do you stop saving and start spending what you've you've saved? When we are young, the mistake we make is we don't save enough. I think as we get older, the we make an equally bad mistake, which is not spending enough. You have to realize the reason. It's the message we should be sending our kids is save, save, save, save. That's okay, but that by itself is useless. It is why are you saving? Saving for what? Save, save, save is good, but saving for what? At some point you have to start spending what you're sick. And that involves a lot of conscious effort too. I think uh a lot of middle class, upper middle class people end up saving a lot and uh leaving it to their kids when they when they die. And I think not that that's a bad thing, but that is very suboptimal because typically, by the time you die, your kids are well, well into their careers. They have made their own money. That is the time when they need your money the least. Instead, if you're very conscious about it, if you want to give money to your kids, leave money for your kids, don't wait till you die. Give it to them when they're young, when they need the money. Help them have those experiences that they cannot afford to have when you're alive, and they will be a lot more grateful to you for it. So that's one book. Uh, the other book that I think uh was very powerful to me, uh resonated with me, is a book called Quit by a behavioral scientist called Annie Duke. Uh, by the way, for your listeners, Annie Duke has a fascinating story, her own personal story uh about how she was a very successful student. She was doing her PhD in cognitive neuroscience uh at um at the University of Pennsylvania, I think. And she quit before she finished her PhD to become a professional poker player and was an incredibly successful. She won the World Series of Poker, and then she got back and finished her PhD uh in cognitive neuroscience and things, and she realized that decision-making in poker is a lot like decision making in life and in terms of what executives do. You are talking about an environment where there's a lot of uncertainty, right? You don't know what cards other people have, but you have to make high-stakes decisions based on uncertain information. But that doesn't mean it's it's just a random free-for-all. Skilled poker players know how to make decisions. When is the right time to put more money into the pot? When is the right time to quit? And we are not taught those things. We are taught as young children that quitting is bad. Quitting, you should never give up. Always take and she says, if you play poker like that, you lose a lot of money. There are times when the smart thing to do, even though you don't know what the outcome is going to be, the smart thing to do is quit. And so I think she talks about how that makes sense. And there's one quote in that book that really resonated with me. She said, if you quit at the right time, it will feel like it's too early. What does she mean by that? She says, We all live in an uncertain world. We don't know the future, right? So if you wait to quit and move on, let's say switch careers or whatever it is, if you wait till the signals are very clear, till you're so unhappy that you know you have to quit, you've waited far too long. If the signals are so clear that you need to move on, then you shouldn't you you've you've been hanging in there too long. If it feels like, you know what, I'm not sure. Oh God, maybe I should try something else. Maybe I should move on to something else. If it's the right time, it'll feel like this is too early.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

And you're not emotionally vested in it so that you can move on.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Rajiv, this has been one heck of a behavior-changing conversation. Thank you so much for pouring your heart into it and sharing everything that you shared this last uh 60 odd minutes. This show is all about creating ripples of inspiration. Before you and I sign off, what's your inspiration today's message to all the listeners?

SPEAKER_01 29:27

My message to people is make conscious decisions about the time you have on this earth. Everybody, realize that everybody has the same amount of time. Don't complain about not having enough time. The fact is, we all have the same time. I do not, I react very negatively when people say, I don't have the time to do that. If it's important to you, sacrifice something that's less important to spend time on the things that are important to you. And you cannot do that unless you know what's important to you.

Final Reflection And Sign Off

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Time is one commodity that is available in equal terms for everybody. How do you maximize this? Exactly. Raji, on that note, thank you so much for this wonderful, wonderful conversation. Thank you for spending this time with us. Conversations like this remind us that good doesn't always come from answers, it often comes from better questions. Not to grand gestures, but to everyday choices. That belief still holds now with a little more depth and a lot more listing. If something from today's episode stayed with you, carry it forward, share it, sit with it, or explore it further through the IST capability of the book inspire someone today. Until we meet again, stay curious, keep inspiring, and inspire someone today.