E179 | Relevance is the New Job Security | Jack Madrid

A résumé can look inevitable in hindsight, but the human story is usually messier and far more useful. I sit down with Jack Madrid, whose career spans Citibank, Ayala, MTV Philippines, Yahoo, Multiply, and now IBPAP, the organization that represents the Philippines' IT-BPM industry. We talk about what actually travels across industries when your job title changes, and why relationship management is not only about clients; it is also about learning to manage up, sideways and down inside real organizational hierarchies.

Jack shares the moment that rewired his confidence: an eighth-grade debate where he was terrified to speak, then heard his own voice and realized he belonged. From there we explore a practical idea for anyone who stays quiet in meetings: the wasted opportunity of an unexpressed opinion. We also dig into the mindset behind a non-linear career, including trusting instinct, learning from mistakes without living in regret, and staying open to lessons from any conversation. His rule is simple and challenging: if you have to choose between engaging with a person or looking at your phone, choose the person.

We also go straight at the anxiety of our time: AI and the future of BPO and knowledge work. Jack argues the bigger risk is not artificial intelligence itself but complacency, and he explains what “moving up the value chain” means for frontline workers in practical terms. We close with an underrated leadership lever that costs nothing and changes everything: kindness. 

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Transcript

Welcome And A Life In Quiet Courage

SPEAKER_00 0:00

A good part of my 10 years with Citibank was, in fact, to be a relationship manager for our corporate and multinational clients. So, in fact, the title of my role was relationship manager, but I think it extended beyond client relationships because uh when I say managing relationships, I also mean internal relationships. Managing teams, managing peers, people at my level, but also managing people above me. Because, you know, one uh banks tend to have hierarchies, organizations tend to have charts, and I think you you learn how to manage up, manage sideways. And the other thing that I can say is I really do not look back. It is very easy to look back and regret certain things, but I'm not one of those people. I I don't think it serves any purpose to look back. I think the only thing one can do, because obviously everyone makes mistakes, is just try to learn from those mistakes. I think one of the easiest ways, the easiest and best way to make a difference and to make the world a little bit better, is just to be kind.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Not everything that matters needs to be loud. Some conversations help you pause, some help you see differently, and some stay with you long after they end. Welcome to Inspire Someone Today, my dear listeners. A space for honest conversations about life, work, and the choices that shape who we become. No quick fixes, no borrowed certainty, just real stories, thoughtful reflection, and the quiet courage to live with intention. This is Inspire Someone Today, where conversations are human, reflective, and meant to stay with you. A version of success that looks inevitable in hindsight. A degree from the University of Pennsylvania, boardrooms at Citibank, building MTV, Philippines from the grounds up, turning Yahoo into a household name in a country that was just discovering what the internet could do, and today leading an industry that employs 1.8 million Filipinos and generates $1.38 billion in a year. But here is what resumes don't tell you, my dear business. There was a boy who was terrified to speak in public, who had butterflies in his stomach every single time, who stood up one day in the middle of eighth grade and did it anyway. And heard something unexpected. Not applause, just a quiet voice inside that said, You're not that bad. You belong here. That moment didn't make him a CEO, but it made him someone who understood from the inside what it feels like to be underestimated and what it takes to show up anyway. My guest today has lived many professional lives banker, media executive, tech builder, industry champion, and a fellow podcaster. But the thread running through all of it is a belief that people, given the right conditions, will always rise to the moment. He has taken his current chapter on exactly that belief fighting for the Filipino workforce on a global stage at a time when technology is rewriting the rules of work faster than most of us can follow. This is a conversation about reinvention, about resilience, and what it means to carry an entire industry on your shoulders while remembering where you started. From the Philippines, I am delighted to welcome Jack Madrid to inspire someone today. Jack, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Thank you very much, uh Sharif, for this wonderful opportunity to have a conversation. I have very fond memories of meeting you in

Connecting The Dots Of A Career

SPEAKER_00 4:20

India uh last year. So thank you for this chance.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Likewise, Jack, let's start before the title and before the career. Let's start with you. You studied economics at the University of Pennsylvania, then built careers at Citibank, Iala Corporation, MTV, Dell, Yahoo, and Multiply before leading IBAP. Each top was a different world. Tell us, even before you got there, tell us the jack behind all of this.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Wow. You know, uh I could never have envisioned or mapped out the journey that I have been on. Uh somebody very smart once said one can never connect the dots forward. You can only connect them backwards. And when I look back at my own path, all the dots as I uh look at each of them somehow make all the sense in the world. But I could never have um imagined it myself uh at at the beginning. It only makes sense when one looks back. And and I guess that's a lesson in itself. But I guess at a certain point in my career, although like many young persons in my time, we thought we had it all figured out, we thought we knew what we wanted to be, and uh made plans accordingly. Uh in my case, I said, I'm gonna work in banking, chart my course toward the end goal of being a very senior banker in a financial institution. But little did I know that that was just going to be the first 10 years of the journey. And I've been uh quite privileged and lucky to have had certain opportunities presented to me, sometimes uh by chance, sometimes I feel uh serendipitously. And and sometimes when I've tried to force myself into specific opportunities and stumbled, um, I've also learned many things from those experiences. As I think about that right now, I I guess one lesson that I've learned is really uh about myself too. It's really uh when when I have a chance to press buttons, I tend to press all of them, knowing that some of them could lead to a mistake, but also knowing that you know one of those buttons could lead into uh the best thing uh ever. And I think that willingness to venture into things that are unknown, that represent some risk, are are some things that I have become more comfortable uh to do as I progress on this journey.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

That's a very interesting take. Press all the buttons, take opportunities as it come your way full on. And now you said you can only connect the dots looking backwards. That's uh so apt. Now, looking back, do you think there was a thread connecting those very different dots? Banking, media, tech, BPO. Or do you think each of them felt like starting something different, something uh starting over the right from the scratch?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

That's a great question. You know, again, when I look back, I feel that each part of the journey carried a very important lesson. And I think that's probably why I like to do new things and uh get that adrenaline flowing when a new opportunity presents itself. So I I would say my first 10 years in banking, which was my intended career after university, you know, presented me with many opportunities to manage relationships. Because a good part of my 10 years with Citibank was, in fact, to be a relationship manager for our corporate and multinational clients. So, in fact, the title of my role was relationship manager, but I think it extended beyond client relationships because uh, when I say managing relationships, I also mean internal relationships. Managing teams, managing peers, people at my level, but also managing people above me. Because, you know, one uh backs tend to have hierarchies, organizations tend to have charts, and I think you you learn how to manage up, manage sideways, and also manage down. So these these are the internal relationships that are very important in uh in a corporate or business environment, learning to work with teams, not just managing clients and customers. So I think my first 10 years at Citibank was all about that. And obviously, when you're managing relationships, you sharpen your communication skills, you sharpen your writing skills. I joined Citibank when there was uh when when email as a channel was very, very new. In fact, Citibank was one of the first companies, I think, that I recall having, having internal mail. We called it City Mail. But now, you know, what we take for granted was quite unique then. And uh, you know, learning how to communicate, learning how to relate, sharpen messages sideways, upwards, downwards, externally with clients, I think those are all very important skills and skills that position me for the next stop in my career. And so I can say that for every junction in my career, I learned a very important lesson.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

So you emphasized on relationship building while you were at City. And of all the roles that you have played, which role really surprised you in terms of being a leader? What took the most or best out of you in any of these roles that you have played?

SPEAKER_00 10:29

I would have

Reinvention From Finance To MTV

SPEAKER_00 10:30

to say the boldest move, and maybe the ones that the one that surprised me the most was really the decision to leave the corporate world. Uh, that was leaving, you know, one of my favorite jobs. Most another very important milestone in my career was my uh eight and a half years with Ayala Corporation after Citibank. You know, interesting thing about Ayala was I applied all the skills that I learned in City. But in Ayala, what I learned how to be was I learned how to be a customer. In Citibank, I was managing customers. In Ayala, I was the customer in many, in many situations, dealing with banks. So it it did, I admit, it felt good to be a customer. To be on the other side. To be on the other side. And then that takes a certain skill set too, to be a good customer. And so, you know, it was a very, now that I look back, it was a quite a natural evolution. But post-Ayala was really the very, very, I think was a major milestone in my career when I had the opportunity to leave the corporate world and set up MTV in the Philippines. Quite a radical departure from, you know, the first, the first half of my career with City and with Ayala Corporation was really uh how to build and make business sense out of this global brand, this global youth, very iconic brand called MTV, and how to make that successful and and relevant in the Philippines market. And so that was the challenge. I have to admit that uh I didn't think they were calling the right person when uh when they approached me for the job because nothing in my in my experience, nothing in my CV suggested that I could take this on. I would say it was a big leap of faith from both employer and uh employee in in their choice of Jack Madrid for MTV. And and uh I say this because I'm I want to respond to your question. Why why was this the most surprising move? Um well, it was a both a surprising move and also I would say a real milestone in my journey because it taught me that at the age of 40, reinvention was possible. You know, moving from uh what was quite a corporate, you know, centric career in in finance, in banking, in business development, and reinventing uh oneself to take on a media business in a very challenging environment because MTV was a new player in a very mature TV, broadcast TV and media and advertising uh market. We were a bit of an upstart. I mean, we had the advantage of having a global brand, but we also had the disadvantage of competing against mainstream media. And at that time, mainstream was very dominant, and digital media was was a bit of a novelty. There was not even anything called social media back in those days. And the internet was in its relative uh nascency. So I think taking this on, making sense out of this kind of business, because we were we were a youth entertainment channel. And you know, 20, 20 years ago, uh it sounds very basic now, but 20 years ago, not really. And I think, well, obviously the world has changed since then, but but it was certainly very exciting to take on this this challenge of building visibility for for the MTV brand in the Philippines market.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

So that's a very interesting. You made a great line, I think it resonates with a lot, many of us, where you said reinvention is possible. And in your journey you have moved industries like nobody's business, banking to media or to internet, all of these things. What does a non-linear career teach you that a traditional ladder doesn't necessarily teach you?

Trusting Instinct And Dropping Regret

SPEAKER_00 15:02

I have never made decisions uh in a linear way. I apply a lot of emotion, I apply instinct, I make decisions equally with my brain and my heart. And in the case of career decisions, my my instinct and my heart play a very important role. I I don't like to overthink too much and over-complicate matters. I do not over-analyze situations, and and that has cost me maybe certain chapters uh of my life, but uh I rely a lot on my on my gut and and my instinct, and I think uh in what feels right at the moment, and I and I just trust it. And the other thing that I can say is I really do not look back. It it is very easy to look back and regret certain things, but I'm not one of those people. I I don't think it serves any purpose to look back. I think the only thing one can do, because obviously everyone makes mistakes, is just try to learn from those mistakes and then make sense out of it for the next for the next situation.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

Not necessarily changing industries by virtue of having such a long illustrious career in different industries. Any specific lesson that stands out or any specific tip that you would want to share with all the listeners out there?

SPEAKER_00 16:30

Well, yes, the first thing that comes to mind is the willingness and humility to learn from every conversation one has. I tend to uh engage in a conversation with anyone I meet. Uh my only constraint is time. But I I do not seek out people to meet and engage with in the sense that I don't select the people that I speak to. I I have a lot of confidence and and faith that whoever I have the privilege and opportunity to meet, I will learn something from that person and from the conversation I have with that person. Whether that person is important or somebody just out in the street or somebody serving me, I try to relate to that person, engage, because I believe there's something I can learn at all levels, including uh when I'm not doing anything important, I think we don't have enough of that kind of engagement, human engagement in the world. And so I try to pay attention. I think one of the rules of civility uh is really to uh, aside from kindness, uh, is really to pay attention to everyone around you, uh to the environment, but especially to the human human beings that that one encounters. Uh we spend far too much time in front of our phones, uh in front of uh media, and we fail to take advantage of the opportunity to talk to the people around us because uh I'd rather I'd rather uh engage with humans than uh external media.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

That that's a great call out. Engage with people more than with the devices. And Jack, I would want

The Debate That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_01 18:20

to take you back to many, many decades. This was while you were in school. I briefly touched upon it in my intro as well. Take us back to that moment of the eighth grader having butterflies in the stomach to participate in a debate, but you still did, and that transformed you as an individual. Walk us through that journey and how it has helped you through your uh life and career.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

That that was a very memorable uh episode, you know, Shri, because uh, you know, yes, I was I was in the eighth grade. I was in the international school, I was one of the very few. Well, I was the only Filipino in class, and certainly a class dominated by American students. My first time to have American classmates, being one of the few Asians. Back in the day, uh, while I held my own academically, I was never one to raise my hand and state an opinion or or talk in class. You know, in Asia, in the Philippines, we are taught to be to be quiet, to be polite. We tend to uh not express our opinions very freely. And and so uh that that environment was very new to me. Although I knew uh intellectually I I was capable and I got pretty decent grades, I I could feel that there was something missing in my ability to express myself verbally. Uh I thought I was a good writer, but it it was really expressing myself verbally, raising my hand, having that kind of confidence. And and public speaking was something that I never thought I would I would ever enjoy. So luckily I had the opportunity of having a very good and thoughtful English teacher, uh Mrs. Salinger, who uh who encouraged me to take to enroll in an elective uh called uh, you know, it was a debate class. There was only one debate program in the school, open to all levels. And and uh fortunately, I had uh the courage to take this elective, and um, you know, obviously part of the class was at the end of the program to participate in a live debate in front of the whole school. And obviously, this was a very terrifying prospect to me, but there was no escaping it. And so I prepared as best I could for my my side of the argument. And uh the the finale was really to speak in front of the whole school. And uh I really didn't know what was going to happen. I obviously could not speak extemporaneously, so I I basically had to just read my case in front of the whole school. And I was not the only one to do that. I think many people also read, but it was the first time I I heard my voice in a public environment, and I didn't really know what to expect. I guess after a few minutes of hearing my voice, that's when I realized, and you know, I you could hear your voice, you could hear your words, and I I felt that it made a lot of sense. The quality was acceptable. It was not a bad voice. I did not cringe hearing myself talking, but I was doing this while I was concentrating on reading uh my argument, but separately. And in parallel, I could hear my voice. It was there and then that I realized, hey, I can actually do this. And I am not bad. I might be average, possibly a little bit above average, but it was far better than my expectation and very different from my fear of public speaking. That was a realization that made me appreciate that I could do even more. And so the very next term in the ninth grade, I actually auditioned for a school play. It was a voluntary move. I did not have to do that. It was not a requirement. It took extra time, but but the very act of auditioning, volunteering for a play was was a very big leap in my confidence. Despite still being fearful, I was still not a hundred percent comfortable, but at least that initial phobia of public speaking had already been overcome. And I guess the rest is history. Because much of what I have done in my career has been all about my ability to communicate. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Thanks for sharing such a beautiful story. It has so many threats in it. One, the power of nudge. If your English teacher has not nudged you to kind of take the debate class, I don't think you would have kind of overcome that fear of speaking. And once you took on to that sense of self-belief, saying, hey, I can do this. I may not be great, I can still do it. That self-belief leading you to kind of having that confidence. And look at you today. You are the much sought-after speakers on platform after platform. You're the unbelievable, actually. Right? So see what the power of that one nudge has on individuals. And you you still so fondly talk about that particular episode, that particular uh incident. Something I would want to ask you on this particular piece, uh, Jack, is for someone today who still struggles with being heard in the room, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

I would tell them that one of the worst examples of a wasted opportunity is an unexpressed opinion. Lolli. And I think if you really think about that, the wasted opportunity of an unexpressed opinion, I think that should move one to consider raising your hand, consider saying something, and hopefully hearing that same voice, you know, and saying, hey, I'm glad I said that. I'm glad my voice was heard. And if that's just the first step, you know, because this this whole thing is is really, I think, a life, you know, I would say it's a lifelong practice of uh expressing oneself. And and I think you just need to make the first one, the first two count, regardless of the result. I think just the very act of doing it once, twice, uh, one will always get better. And I think you just need to I think doing it the first time, the second time are are the most critical uh examples. And and accept the fact that you don't know what's going to happen. There's there are no guarantees. But I think the very act itself of saying something is already an achievement by itself.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Not true. Take that first step, take the plunge, right?

Everyone Is Media And Social Commerce

SPEAKER_01 25:30

Then again, first forward, in your career journey, career trajectory, you went on from MTV to take on something called as multiply. What was it to lead something like multiply during its peak and then see very soon the landscape changing? What did it make Jack Madrid?

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Again, you know, when you connect the dots of these seemingly unrelated chapters, they all really are connected. Because what I did after MTV was uh I spent I spent three years with Dell after that, and that was hardcore operations. I had to work at night, you know, managing uh delivery of uh services for for for Dell in the US. So it was um it was managing large operations teams and very different from MTV, of course. It was much more operational. Uh and after that, you know, came the opportunity to lead Yahoo in the Philippines. That was uh back in those years, Yahoo was the very first global internet brand uh to set up, to set up shop in the Philippines. And uh again, I was lucky to be given that opportunity, and that got me back into media, but this time it was digital media. Uh, and this time it was uh digital advertising and the importance of digital content in the advent of social media. And so while I was familiar with mainstream media thanks to MTV, this was another new channel of online marketing, digital advertising. I I learned the importance of uh this new channel, I learned the importance of uh content, digital marketing, and the lesson I learned with Vyahoo was that, and the statement is still very much in my in my brain, is that everyone is media. And and that was almost 20 years ago, maybe 15, 16 years ago. In my head, I said, everyone is media. So what does that mean? It means that everything you do, your behavior, your words, your appearance, what you say, how you act, that is an act of media. You are your own brand. You know, so it's not a concept that you think of or a strategy. Everything you did is your own, everything you say, every word, every output is content. And that, even doing that, whether you do something or not, whether you say anything or not, that in itself is already some form of content. And 20 years ago, that was not so easy to understand. Now everyone knows that, right? It instinctively. But back then, just to say that phrase, everyone is media, was something very unique. So that was very powerful for me. And I think that's what I learned in Yahoo. After Yahoo came the multiply experience, and that was also very interesting because it was my first foray into online commerce. It was still very much digital and online, but this time it was e-commerce. Uh, multiply in its first iteration was uh was one of the very first social media uh channels, slightly ahead of Facebook. Although, you know, looking back, obviously uh we know who won that battle. But what happened with Multiply in the Philippines was very interesting because it was a very uh well-built engine. It was so well built, and the photographs were very high resolution and high quality, that some very enterprising entrepreneurs in the Philippines and in Southeast Asia used Multiply for commerce instead of social media. So, you know, one can look back at Multiply and say that was the very first social commerce channel. And so my job when I was hired out of Yahoo to run Multiply was to transform the social media platform into an e-commerce marketplace. So that was that was the task, that was the challenge at hand. And so we had to migrate all the all the merchants who were selling goods on Multiply on the social media channel. We had to migrate them into the new e-commerce platform that we built. And so it became, it became the country's first online marketplace. So again, a reinvention of an existing platform, doing something that nobody else had done in the Philippines, and I had to build a team uh to make that happen. Uh it was a very bold, ambitious challenge that we were able to build it, and again, the rest is history, you know. Uh Multiply was sold uh a few years later, and uh I moved on to my next chapter after that.

SPEAKER_01 30:35

That's that's very interesting. And again, how you have been able to reinvent yourself so many times during the course of your career. I'm sure multiply didn't go the way you had anticipated it would. But how do you personally process a chapter that didn't end the way you hoped it it would? And how would you move on from there?

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Well, I think when you embark on a when you

Humility After Setbacks Plus Competence

SPEAKER_00 31:00

take on a new role, I think you have to have the humility. I think you need to balance humility and ambition. Obviously, you want to be optimistic and ambitious enough to visualize a successful outcome, but you also need to have the humility to accept that not all things will happen the way you want them to. And so I think I've been able to balance those two. By nature, I'm very optimistic. I I think things will always work out. But the other the other side of me has the humility to know that this could actually not succeed. And uh I guess I don't I don't dwell on the on the other scenario too much, but I do know that it's there and it's happened many times to me. But I think I've become I've become confident enough to know that even if things don't turn out the way one wants them to, there will always be another opportunity. And uh, you know, at this late stage of my career, I I can tell you, Shereen, that I am still very much that way. I I still do not know what will happen next, but I'm confident that that it's gonna be uh a learning experience, and I know that I'm gonna meet more good people along the way. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

And that confidence, is it coming from experience, Jack, or is it coming from the fact that, like you said, you're eternally optimistic? Where is this confidence oozing from?

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Yeah, you know, you know, when I was 35, I was about to make a make a career move. And I asked my one of my mentors at that time uh about this potential move. And I talked about the topic of uh stability, career stability. And uh, you know, I'll never forget what he said. So this this mentor of mine said, you know, the only stability one needs to worry about is the stability of one's competence. And so I was not really I was not really prepared for that for that answer, but but I'll never forget

Leading IBPAP For A National Industry

SPEAKER_00 33:10

it. I keep trying to remember that and learn what that means, but but it's a it was a very important reminder.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

And Jack, from all of these roles, you move from being an operator to an advocate, leading an entire industry. As at the helm of uh IBAP, I will let you talk a bit about what IBAP is. But more importantly, what shifts in you when the mandate is no longer PL, but the entire sector and the people in that sector. It's huge. It's a large responsibility. How do you kind of make that shift?

SPEAKER_00 33:48

You know, if I had known what I was getting into, uh Shri, I I I'm not I'm not sure. I I would have maybe uh you know thought thought twice about it. But again, as I told you earlier, I don't overthink it. I I use my my heart as much as I use my brain when I make these these decisions. And at that time, my instinct was, you know, it it felt it felt like the right thing to do. Um it allowed me a chance to relocate uh back to the Philippines because I was living I was living in uh Canada at the time. Wow, and I can say almost five years later, this has been the privilege of of my career. My time at IBPAP has been has been quite a ride, and what a ride it really, really has been. What my team and I do at IBPAP is we are the we are the voice of uh of the IT BPM industry in in the country. Well over 1,000 uh companies and organizations are in this industry, including many who are who are uh not operating uh BPOs or or GCCs, but other very important constituents in the ecosystem, infrastructure providers, the real estate sector, the HR uh talent sector. Obviously, we work very closely with all levels of government in promoting the country as uh as an as an IT BPM destination, and that that forms the entire IT BPM ecosystem. Uh and so uh having the privilege to be the voice of what is one of the country's biggest economic pillars is really quite a privilege. It's a responsibility that that my team and I do not take uh lightly. Uh we are responsible for communicating all regulatory uh issues and concerns, communicating them uh, you know, with our uh partners in government, with the interests of the of our member organizations in mind, communicating that in uh in a clear uh way. And also sometimes uh we find ourselves in the position of negotiating and establishing positions. So uh we tend to find ourselves in the middle of very important matters. But we also have the privilege of promoting the Philippines uh as an investment destination to investors.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

I think you kind of summed it up great. It is a privilege, it's a responsibility. You also kind of represent government in a lot many ways, represent the country in a lot many ways. And I'm sure when you kind of manage a large body like this at the helm, there's multiple stakeholders that you are working with. Organizations, the people themselves, government officials, external countries, all of those. What's been the hardest in your role of managing these multitude of stakeholders?

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Well, I think I think like life itself, especially in this role, you're managing a very diverse group of uh stakeholders. I I think one needs to accept that you will never, nor should one, try to please everybody. You should uh accept that. And and I think I think once you accept that, it it allows you to to be much clearer in your head what one's priorities are. And and then you just have the the confidence to make the call, despite knowing that there will be uh some stakeholders who who will not be happy. Uh and I think I think um many of the things we need to do as an organization need need decisions to be made fairly quickly. And I think if you if you take too too long because you're worried about trying to please everyone, you know, then you end up compromising and you end up you end up arriving at a sub-optimal uh decision. And so I think I think what I'm really saying is don't expect or even try to please everyone. Um because when you try to please everyone, when you try to be all things to all people, then you you might run the risk of being all things to nobody.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

That's so very true.

AI Fear Versus Lifelong Learning

SPEAKER_01 38:40

And as you are at the helm managing the IT BPM, when you hear people say AI is coming to BPO jobs, what's the most important thing they're getting wrong?

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Well, I think people who say that, people who I hope people don't really believe that, I think need to think a little bit more deeply uh about about what what technology and what AI is capable of. Instead of fearing it, I think time is better spent trying to think of how one can use it and uh make it augment your life, your work, and use it as a tool to improve one's life. I think it is both uh a challenge and and also an opportunity. And being being an optimist, I I look at the opportunity part more than the challenge part. Because at the rate that technology is accelerating, uh, you know, every every week, every two weeks, there's always something new, I think it becomes so hard to plan and to look at a crystal ball and try to predict what will happen. So rather than rather than overthink it, I think one just needs to arm yourself with enough humility and curiosity to learn more uh about it, learn how to use it. Uh I I try to use it to simplify my life or to improve my productivity more than fear, you know, what what it will do. But the the the one thing that that keeps me up at night about about this topic, Sri, is not it's not AI itself. Uh it's it's not the technology itself that that I think is the biggest risk. I think the biggest risk is uh is really our complacency in in uh not really uh acting and taking responsibility for what I believe should be everyone's uh learning journey. And so, you know, with uh I'm a baby boomer, and and I think whether you're a baby boomer or you're from uh or or you're a millennial or you're from the new generation, I think they call it alpha.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Gen alpha.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Or or you're uh, you know, AI native. I think uh regardless of where you belong, one needs to take personal responsibility for your lifelong learning journey. Uh and I think that's what keeps me appetite. Is uh because all the all the knowledge uh as we know it, I think is pretty much available. You just need to prioritize how you spend your time.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

I think you touch upon some good points rather than worrying, fearing about AI, develop curiosity, learn, do something about it. So look at it with a very optimism lens. And one other piece that we keep hearing people, thought leaders talking about is with AI coming in, you can actually move up the value chain. But for the frontline worker, I'm sure there is 1.8 million uh Filipinos out there and for the rest of the world as well. What does it actually mean? Move up the value chain for the frontline worker.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

Well, you know, um our digital workers, our industry has been around for a few decades now. And uh if you look at our growth over the past decades, it has shown our adaptability, uh shown our resilience uh in in uh learning you know new processes and using using technology to to be more efficient. Maybe agentic AI is a very different opportunity, but I think if we all uh accept that some jobs, especially at the entry level, will uh will inevitably be automated, I think I think that's a good start. And and I think uh what what we see on the ground is that uh everyone whose jobs may have been affected, uh, or or or maybe some jobs that used to take two people are now uh being done by one person. I think you take that as a sign of progress rather than the way the other way around. Um and I think you you take advantage of that opportunity to really uh learn new skills or learn how to use AI platforms to take on higher higher complexity tasks. Uh and and what we've seen in the industry so far is is that I think anyone whose previous job has been affected has been able to be redeployed. And so I think what I'm really trying to say here is that I think one needs to expect changes in in one's in one's Type of work. And I think w one just needs to continue learning new skills. And I think accepting that this is going to happen much more frequently than in the past. So retaining curiosity, accepting that what you're doing will change every few months, and always trying to stay ahead of the curve to remain relevant. The skills that are going to be more important moving forward are not necessarily technical skills. I think fundamental skills like comprehension, critical thinking, problem solving, communication and judgment, right? Analytical skills. I think these are skills combined with some domain knowledge, whether you you're an accountant or you're a nurse or you're an engineer or an analyst. I think if you have those qualitative skills plus your domain knowledge, I think you will be well positioned for jobs of the future.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

That's very well put, Jack. This is not coming from just somebody, somebody at the helm overseeing a huge industry of close to two million uh folks to kind of call it out saying that AI is here to stay. There is no need to be fearful of AI. The best way to fight, fight it out, I don't think fight is the right word. The best way to adapt, embrace AI is telling the softer skills of curiosity, learning, being adaptable to change and reinventing uh oneself and staying relevant, most importantly.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

Great. Jack, as we kind of have this wonderful, wonderful conversation, we are also drawing closer to the finished line. As you get closer to the finished line, somebody who had had such an illustrious uh career and life, Jack, my question to you, plain and simple, who in your life inspired you the most? And did they know they were doing it at that time?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Wow. I I do not know, Shri, if I if if there is one singular uh person uh that I can name. But I think, I think, you know, because as I said earlier in the podcast, uh I take advantage of every opportunity from every person I meet to learn something from even a short conversation. But if you were to ask me uh who the role models have been, you know, the first the first one would would would have to be my my father, you know, because uh all my relationship skills and my ability to engage and manage relationships, both personal and professional,

Kindness And Choosing Humans Over Phones

SPEAKER_00 46:50

even random conversations with people I don't know, my abilities to engage with those people came from him because uh I saw firsthand as I was growing up that very natural ability uh of his to engage and relate and uh you know maintain relationships with people. And that takes a lot of uh patience and humility and and I think um authenticity to be able to do that. And it's and it's much harder than one thinks. Uh it's and it's very different from the urge or the need to be popular. And I I think there's a very big difference uh bit between you know having that authentic authenticity and interest in in people versus some people's need to be popular. And I make this distinction because because I think that they're very, very, very different things. So so that that would be one. In terms of uh inspiring, I I I really that there is no one person I can name. I think I just somehow find find it somewhere inside me to continue to try and be better, even in this latter part of my career. I think my urge and uh inclination to to be better is is still as strong as as as as before. I'll I'll never feel like I'm done and I'm I've already achieved everything I wanted. Even at this very late age, I still feel I can be so much better. You know? And so I think that's part of why uh why I still have a lot of energy and and why uh I remain confident that uh I'll I'll probably uh be able to keep going for uh for a few more years.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

If there is one underrated skill a leader can leverage to genuinely inspire his or her team around, what would that underrated skill be like?

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Wow, I I don't think this is even a skill, uh Shri. I think one of the easiest ways, the easiest and best way to make a difference and to make the world a little bit better is just to be kind. I think it is our duty, especially at you know, in this in this kind of world we we live in, I think I think showing more kindness uh will will really really go a long way.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Little kindness makes the world a better place. Jack, before you and I sign off, if you could leave one idea in the minds of everyone listening today, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 49:39

I I think one can learn from anyone one has a conversation with. Don't underestimate the people you next meet and have the chance to speak to. And if you have a choice between engaging with someone or not engaging with someone and just looking at your phone, I would go the former. I would engage with this person. Uh whether that person may be interesting or will will find you strange if you speak to him or her, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you're the one who reached out. Because most people will not bother to do it for their own reasons. I'm the type of person who will reach out. Even if I get embarrassed, even if I you know, even if if the person reacts negatively or rudely to me, I I won't feel bad. Because I I know that I did the right thing and I and I I was the one who reached out. And I think the world needs more people who are reach who are reaching out than not not not reaching out.

SPEAKER_01 50:47

Reach out. Reach out to people around you. If you have to make a choice between a device and a human, pick human.

unknown 50:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:56

On that note, Jack, it was a lovely conversation with you. Thank you for joining us all the way from Philippines. Uh, it was a joy to have this particular conversation with you, Jack. Thank you for spending this time with us. Conversations like these remind us that good doesn't always come from answers, it often comes from better questions. Not to grand gestures, but to everyday choices. That belief still holds now with a little more depth and a lot more listening. If something from today's episode stayed with you, carry it forward, share it, sit with it, or explore it further through the IST club team or the book inspire someone today. Until we meet again, stay curious, keep inspiring, and inspire someone today.