The Boss/ Betty Jäger

Join co-hosts Douglas Sigwarth https://www.sigwarthglass.com/ and Will Armstrong http://www.willarmstrongart.com/, professional working artists who talk with guests about ART & SELLING.  Douglas talks about his reactions to The Coconut Grove Arts Festival. Other topics include removing cheaters from the show, emerging artists, and friends on the road.

Welcome to the pod this week Betty Jäger, from Minneapolis, MN. https://www.instagram.com/3jagdesign/ Betty is a "Magic Jewelry Gremlin" who "makes space" for those who have typically been marginalized. Her laugh is infectious as is her call to action. Her talk will leave you inspired to operate "six feet above" and find "common ground," even if it's on the water in the "back of a dingy."

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Music  "Walking" by Oliver Lear
Business inquiries at theoliverlear@gmail.com
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Transcript

0:11
welcome to the independent artist podcast sponsored by the National Association of Independent Artists also
0:19
sponsored by zapplication I'm will Armstrong and I'm a mixed media artist I'm Douglas sigworth class blower join
0:26
our conversations with professional working artists
0:31
hahaha welcome to the show everybody I am back from Miami and I don't know where the
0:37
hell I am actually will how are you doing uh I'm doing fine I haven't gone anywhere I'm I'm right here in my
0:43
daughter's bedroom my ex has been on the road with her artwork selling down at Florida she's been gone for a month so
0:50
my uh daughter's Studio slash room definitely looks like she's been here for a month all right well it's not a
0:57
video podcast so uh that's totally fine nor is it smell-o-vision thank the Lord
1:02
I need a shower well you just got back from walking those dogs yeah that uh they won't be
1:09
skipping around needing your attention for a little while here so that's good news you know it was coldest day of the
1:14
year honestly out there the winds are like 30 miles an hour and it's 15 out there so it's like uh Minnesota
1:21
Wisconsin weather out there so oh no don't even get me started so listen Okay
1:27
I was in Miami yesterday morning we drove up to Tampa we flew home we landed
1:32
about nine o'clock but winter weather storm advisory vehicles in the ditch
1:39
everywhere we couldn't even come home so we had one more night in a hotel in Minneapolis oh oh man yeah 30 miles from
1:46
our house if you stay out at the airport yep we stayed at the airport so we got a hotel and we got an Uber at like five in
1:53
the morning to try and beat rush hour because we had to get home for some stuff today good Lord and that was
1:59
taking our lives into our own hands I'll tell you why the the roads still a little treacherous they were terrible
2:05
and the driver I think he was kind of pissed that he accepted a job that took him way away from the airport I mean he
2:12
had to go 30 40 miles so he was still going freeway speeds and were fish
2:18
tailing and both Renee and I were thinking we were going to end up stuck in the ditch somewhere yeah and then
2:24
what do you do I it's tough that's I mean you had stuff to get home do you guys ever stay down
2:31
in Florida in between shows like what's your next show how long is the break it's only a week uh we're back for
2:37
Gasparilla um so we have one weekend off okay do you guys ever stay down and and do uh the vacation thing in between
2:44
shows it's all different because before kovid Renee wasn't consistently on the
2:50
road with me because we had children who well our youngest still needed her around right and then right when covet
2:58
hit he was old enough that he didn't need Mom around to keep everything in line and together so gotcha thank you
3:04
she got yeah so she got sidelined there so this is really kind of our first full year of everywhere we go it's together
3:11
as partnership all right she's sick of you yet she has every reason to be sick of me but uh she hasn't shown any uh
3:19
so do I oh okay fine I'll just go crawl under a
3:25
rock somewhere no not at all not at all so you're back from Coconut Grove it's
3:30
nice to see you what um how was the show you had a had a pretty good weekend Recon was good I have no complaints I
3:37
had a good drive I should say I had an uneventful drive after that uh last uh
3:43
trip we did out to California I think we we banked all of the road drama for a lifetime so guys I've said to others
3:51
don't get cocky all right the universe is lying in weight we are waiting to
3:57
give you that uh that one-two punch when you feel like you're in the clear well our good friend who wasn't in the clear
4:04
was Ben Frye his van broke down in Orlando yeah no did he have to rent one
4:11
in Orlando to get the rest of the way yes so it turns out his van is dead man
4:17
walking but yeah he was so close and yet so far he wasn't able to set up until
4:22
the morning of the show oh my God yeah it was a nightmare waiting for tow truck
4:27
and getting the to the bottom of what was wrong with it but he did it you know what though I also saw a really fancy
4:35
bright blue ribbon in his Booth by the end of the weekend too so uh with great
4:40
Trouble Comes great reward I guess yeah it was really well deserved his work is
4:46
just amazing and I saw the image of the booth shot and everything with the with the blue ribbon everything show looks
4:52
nice with a nice big blue ribbon on it a shiny ribbon on it yeah he's doing he did good and I was happy to be near him
5:00
and Camille and our next door neighbors for Hana and Rod were just such Pleasant
5:05
people did you just name drop the show director by first name without her laugh asked that's Camille and we had tea no
5:12
ice you know that Ben has a girlfriend named Camille hmm I did not know she was
5:19
there do you get to meet her yes uh-huh nice so as we know our good friend in uh
5:25
artist company say he says he never has to do this in his personal life he never has to say me and Camille and then
5:32
clarify it's not the director of Coconut Grove it is my girlfriend Camille
5:37
but yeah so so that's how you got the best in show way to go big
5:43
but yeah so the um farahana and Rod wonderful kind people we could just sit
5:50
and have these awesome conversations all weekend which we did so that was a nice time excellent I love those guys uh they
5:57
are up in the mountains of Virginia Rod uh had such complimentary things to say
6:03
about the podcast and he did let me know will that your scripts are [ __ ] and that
6:10
he does believe that I need to to stop giving you all of the the mean lines hmm
6:16
that's just that's the part I play I'm gonna break down the third wall
6:23
well good sounded like you have a nice little neighborhood there in Coconut Grove was it one long road this year did
6:30
they change the layout a little bit uh layout was pretty similar the only thing that it was fewer exhibitors so we were
6:37
more spaced out and I think there were typically two rows of booths down Panama
6:44
is it Pan Am or Pan American I think yeah anyway so it was a single row down yep nope it was good and
6:51
apparently the show was cursed by a witch huh okay tell me more well so
6:59
Loden was a little tricky Camille love Camille name dropped the show director
7:04
again if I if I may give us our last name if we're gonna name drop let's go first and last you want me to Massacre
7:11
her last name you do yeah put it on us okay Camille I apologize if I mispronounced your name I'm gonna
7:16
pronounce it Camille marches she's been laying out chills for Winter Park for 20 some years so this isn't her
7:23
first rodeo But but so she took over at the Grove and the setup there was a
7:28
section of the show where the spreadsheet went haywire and the booth numbering was wrong you can anticipate
7:36
what kind of troubles that's gonna give when you know the first two artists set up and then the other ones come and they
7:42
don't have a spot and it's chaos yeah right on Down the Line yeah so she did her absolute best she understands it's a
7:49
it's a shitty situation for artists to come into and she did her best to try and solve it and be reasonable and make
7:56
accommodations and but that was a pretty hard thing at setup and then she gets
8:01
home and she's got this long email from
8:06
a woman who says she is a witch and she's put a curse on the show it literally goes on for pages and Pages
8:13
this woman says her name is Sandra ramillian and she's a Haitian witch
8:19
living in Lauderdale I don't want any I don't want any of this I don't even know
8:24
if I want to hear anymore okay uh so why is she angry at the show it's basically crazy ramblings but it just happened to
8:31
coincide with this funky setup deal but the next day the show opens and things
8:37
were were good and everything went off pretty flawlessly from that point on so obviously this is just the ramblings of
8:43
insanity coming through but it just you're like oh I'm glad I wasn't there
8:49
so the witch-made setup goes slightly Askew a couple of numbers that were off uh our boy Ben's van broke down but
8:57
besides that you know did she make the portageons run out of toilet paper or the water run blood well one of the
9:04
problems you end up having when the the people coming through the gate are higher than normal is you know you start
9:11
going through the vital services like toilet paper a lot faster than uh than
9:17
as planned so yes the uh the sanitation services were having a little trouble
9:23
keeping up with the masses let's just say all right the mass of the masses all
9:29
right sounds good yeah I don't know I wouldn't know how to run a show but you got to have empathy for the people that do yeah all I know about portageons is I
9:36
don't want them next to my booth for sure and no they were but they were placed in their normal spots that was
9:42
all fine you need to have a cool level-headed director who problems are going to happen and you just have to
9:48
deal with them head on you're kind of know that people are gonna be mad that there's no toilet paper in the in the Portage Jones or you're gonna know that
9:54
some mistake is going to happen and you've got to put out a lot of fires and uh one big fire that got put out at the
10:02
Grove this weekend which people are talking about online is there was an artist who wasn't in his
10:09
Booth selling his own work he was at another show with a rep in the booth and
10:14
so he was double dipping he got busted double dipping yep he got sent packing I
10:20
was talking to my wife earlier today and that's what happens when you have cheaters and you have people behind the scenes that may not speak up yeah
10:27
they're gonna be upset about the things going forward it's like I know Jewelers who uh import their stuff and it just
10:34
hasn't really been proven you've got people who are double dipping and trying to show at Naples and at Coconut Grove
10:40
you have watercolor or oil artists who are jurying in under digital it's all a
10:46
short-sighted business model and it it had me thinking the burden of doing that
10:51
is that a lot of those guys just don't have any friends like they can't be honest with other people you know you
10:57
can't really tell people what you're doing you're not gonna be like like if I have a i crushed it at uh Fall by you
11:04
and you and I are friends and we got to talk about it I just had another big sale from that and it's like okay my
11:11
business model is all on the up and up so I don't have to hide anything from my friends yeah and I get to actually have
11:17
friends and be honest with them so you're not constantly covering your lies they have to operate like an island keep
11:23
all the stories straight so they don't get out and it's just exhausting you know you have people backstage rooting
11:29
for you to fail constantly and that guy that that uh and I don't want to mention him by name but the guy that got booted
11:34
from The Grove is apparently busy at work scrubbing his show schedule from
11:40
his website and he's gotten himself in trouble so uh he's in the soup and it
11:46
was caused by himself it's like the rules are clear no double dipping don't send reps so you got busted don't act
11:54
like you're not doing it or you haven't ever done it or whatever it it happened and don't freaking do it and understand
12:01
that people are gonna be pissed at you when you do or not give a rip if you fall you know right I mean I don't know
12:08
what the guy's situation is we walk a mile in each other's shoes and who knows what has pushed the sky to the brink but
12:14
if you know on the front page it just seems like greed you know yeah you look at it by the surface value it's like oh
12:20
well it's just greedy and you're trying to do more and that's not what this business is about it's about the personal connections that we make with
12:26
our clientele and you can't do that with a rep and cheater's gonna go yeah they gotta go down sorry yep so and I think
12:35
it brings up good conversations I mean it showed that we had a director who was
12:41
willing to follow their rules there are a lot of directors who are afraid of that confrontation afraid of backlash
12:48
afraid of what if they get it wrong and how can we create systems that can make
12:53
it a little easier for these directors and it's a good conversation that's going on on the NAIA Forum so anyone who
13:00
wants to jump on Facebook and read and participate and jump in on that I think it's a good conversation moving forward
13:06
on how to tackle this problem yeah it's a great conversation and I think it's kind of funny because right now you have
13:12
two kinds of artists you have well right here on the podcast you got my boy
13:17
Douglas who is headed out down south with his lovely wife Renee to sell the
13:22
work that they've been cranking out all winter and they are just knee-deep and art shows and production and doing the
13:29
thing then you have artists like me who are trying to make work in the studio who don't have a show until March or
13:37
April who have a little bit of time on their hands so it's interesting to see like the Facebook it starts spiking in
13:43
the red like this time of year when people aren't quite out on the shows and so the people that are because I got the
13:49
time on their hands and yeah you get time on their hands to get a little shitty I'm gonna dig down deep and it's
13:55
like you know what I'm gonna be the one that makes a stand so you're seeing some people make some stands and get some
14:01
work done to kind of weed out some of the cheaters nobody likes cheaters I
14:07
just want to say that you having that time on your hands you did a really good thing with helping and emerging kind of
14:13
a brand new artist at the Grove get their feet wet and have a successful first event at a good show like that so
14:21
you know that I appreciate you bringing that up and I do have a lot of plans
14:26
with the NAIA with the emerging artists program the emerging artist program is
14:31
not in the future going to look like will holds your hand it tells you how to rent rope panels and
14:39
it tells you how many zip ties you're gonna need hey everybody will is going to read the packets for you and tell you
14:45
exactly what's in the packet I'm not I am not but you know we talked about
14:51
Camille a little bit and we're pumping her up because she just had a great first Grove you know it's not her first
14:57
rodeo but she really cared about this kid and he got juried into the show and
15:02
he'd never even been to an art show so it's not always gonna be ground up
15:08
mm-hmm you know I mean it's not always going to be like well here's a picture of an art show uh but that's the way
15:14
this guy was and uh from all tell he had a had a really good weekend so well that's good I mean you you helped get
15:21
him the foundational tools you know the the display and get him set up and give him the tips that he might need and then
15:28
he could make the rest of it happen so yeah that's really great I'm really happy you did that well I mean it's
15:34
about the Next Generation and trying to keep the the wheels on our industry because I want to keep doing this
15:40
probably for another 20 years you've been doing this for a while uh we've
15:45
seen shows come and go we've seen show shows that don't want to do it anymore we've seen shows that have circled the
15:52
drain the shows that used to be excellent so I that are no longer excellent they've they've let their
15:59
um Quality slip that we don't attend any longer but uh one thing I found kind of
16:05
interesting this weekend which I hadn't had before I don't know if people have
16:10
are so used to like ubereats or saying Hey I want this and it's going to be
16:15
delivered to me but I was getting text and phone calls from my card saying hey
16:21
hey I was at the show and you had this one piece for 150 yeah can you just
16:27
drive that up to Boca Raton and drop that off for me and I'll be like um no uh actually you can order that on
16:33
our website yeah but I don't want to pay shipping so they want you to spend sixty dollars in gas I had five or six people
16:40
that I funneled onto the website and they had to pay for shipping but yeah they were all they wanted me to like do
16:47
the rounds now this isn't like going to hang a cluster of 2500 dollar wall
16:53
grouping or something this is like a hundred and fifty dollar piece so how much does it cost to make Douglas stance
17:00
if you're not interested there is a threshold right yeah mine is like yeah
17:05
mine is like my wingspan if it's bigger than my wingspan then I'll uh then I'm I'm uh no you know you can fit that
17:13
under your arm and walk it to the car so Will's not delivering it but if it's wide enough for the arms to be wide
17:18
you'll you'll bring it to them absolutely no that that is a interesting question it's like well what do you you
17:24
know what I I will typically do um and you can probably do this with with Renee being there is like just find
17:30
the closest entrance yeah and a lot of times people will be like when they do buy a big piece or just I mean I don't
17:36
really sell too many small ones but um you know they're buying a nice piece for me I just asked them we're like well how
17:42
do you how do you want it to your car you can carry it or you know you just bought a nice piece of artwork no reason
17:48
to carry it yourself yeah for sure they're like well you'll just walk away from your booth I'm like yeah it's not
17:54
like you're a jeweler or something where yeah that's gonna walk away that's my 2D
17:59
privilege speaking again well speaking of Jewelers you had a pretty uh
18:07
interesting exciting talk with your friend Betty Yeager from Minneapolis Minnesota yep got Betty on this weekend
18:14
talking about a little privilege we're gonna get hot we got a hot one Douglas okay okay so this is the point in the
18:19
show where we are we offer the disclaimer where we say that the viewpoints of our guests are of theirs
18:26
alone they do not reflect either of the hosts they may or may not reflect the
18:32
whole neighbor they may not yup you're trying to wiggle
18:37
out of being a 50 year old cisgendered white male Douglas that's what you're doing oh am I
18:44
now he's dancing ladies and gentlemen no we just want to let everybody know that
18:50
uh she has some opinions which we love and we find really refreshing that she speaks her mind and has her opinions but
18:57
it's not going to make everybody feel comfortable and so it is okay to disagree but it is not necessary
19:04
necessarily the opinions of our sponsors or the neia or zap you know what we're
19:09
trying to cover ourselves in case somebody disagrees but nobody's always going to agree with every point that our
19:14
guests make what's great about Betty is you're going to catch a different side a different view of somebody that you
19:21
might not necessarily know and that's what I love about the podcast we're sitting down and talking to people that
19:26
just dig a deep and getting to know people and that's what I want to do with my conversations is just to let another
19:33
voice be heard so if you want to talk about things uh use our Facebook page you can jump on and start a topic keep
19:40
it friendly keep it fresh we will be I don't know we love interacting with the the listeners and interacting with our
19:47
fellow artists again we're just doing this for fun and to get the voices heard in every story that we talk to there is
19:56
something about it there's some kernel that really encapsulates us as a
20:01
community and what I love about your talk with with Betty is that she really has like no apologies she will say I am
20:09
blatantly supporting the community that has always had my back and I think that loyalty and that respect is awesome and
20:16
and she has that right we all have that right to make decisions for ourselves as Independent Artists as Independent
20:23
Business people making a living so it was really cool and really fun what a fun personality to to hear her story
20:29
yeah she's an amazing human and I'm looking forward to you guys hearing the talk
20:34
forward to the blowback
20:39
independent artist podcast is called [ __ ] you here's Betty
20:46
all right here we are Betty Yeager from Minneapolis Minnesota
20:51
this episode of The Independent artist podcast is brought to you by zap the digital application service where
20:57
artists and art festivals connect I see here there are some new features with the events list category through zap
21:03
which will help us with looking up new shows to fill a spot in our schedule you know I feel like I should have something
21:09
to say but I wasn't really listening to you because I'm looking at the events list right now and it's pretty cool okay
21:15
so you drop the menu down and there at the bottom go scrolling all the way about third thing down in the smaller
21:21
print it just says events list that's right all of the shows appear here regardless of their application deadline
21:27
you can use filtering and sorting to narrow down your search to find the
21:32
right show that fills your desired time frame or location I know a lot of people love that calendar I like seeing the
21:39
list of events I like scrolling through and doom scrolling late at night it's like online dating they don't let you
21:46
swipe left or right but you can figure out who you want to date coming up here it's my buddy
21:54
good to see your face how are you I'm good let me uh start this recording the
21:59
room sounds good let's do a little test testes testes one two three all right we're gonna have a good time
22:09
so how you been good yeah no okay you doing okay everything uh how's life
22:15
okay you know it's weird in the bubble but uh All Things Considered I don't
22:21
have too many complaints yeah I mean you are in a bubble like you're not doing shows at all are you
22:28
no no one can hear you shake your head no that's this is a podcast no no you're
22:34
not doing anything did you even apply for anything no yeah are you are you bummed about that
22:40
yeah I mean you can still apply to some [ __ ] yeah it's true sometimes I mean I don't
22:47
know it's like I worked so hard to get into those shows that I was doing and now it's been two years since I've
22:54
applied to anything and part of me feels like I don't have to reinvent the wheel but it's like I probably should get new
23:01
jury shots I should probably be applying with things that haven't sold do you
23:07
really think that's the case I don't know I feel like I finally got a good photographer and I finally got good
23:12
images but those pieces are God knows where anymore right some of them are are
23:18
completely gone just poof who knows walk away
23:24
what I love about you is like I remember well we first met but then I knew you
23:30
were at ACC Baltimore and I was there helping my wife Susan elnora jewelry set her work up and Susie just looks her
23:38
head up she goes Betty's here and I was like what and I'm like she goes listen and then we listen
23:47
and that's when we heard like three aisles over I like Betty's coming and then it was like a thunderstorm it got a
23:54
little louder and I'm like oh yeah here she comes it's coming it's yeah and you're a force I mean and that's the
24:01
thing you're a social Force too and so it it kind of freaks me out that you're not out there doing shows you've totally
24:08
reinvented yourself as far as who you sell to and and how do you do it how to
24:13
get the goods yeah but you don't seem to be having any trouble no let let people know where to find me
24:20
they know how to find me how how'd you do it I think it's because I only sold in person once upon a time I don't have
24:28
a website my website's a Tumblr that I haven't touched and in two years maybe I think the other day
24:35
somebody was like yeah your website's not working and I'm like what website right there's a reason that's not
24:40
working it doesn't exist yeah it's basically a page with my contact info I think that putting myself in that
24:47
position once upon a time when I was doing shows has only helped me yeah make a little scratch I never wanted a
24:54
website where you could just go and see my entire collection of work uh I didn't
24:59
even know how to ship [ __ ] before the pandemic so I told everyone that I only
25:05
shipped through FedEx as a deterrent because it would cost them 96 dollars to have something shipped nice Tuesday's
25:13
over that's not the case anymore thank you USPS you have not lost any of my packages and I love you not yet you're
25:21
right don't get cocky yeah I know but that's what I love about you too it's like there's something very kind of punk
25:28
rock uh rock and roll about your work uh about your Imaging about the way you go
25:33
about your business and what I think is cool about that is that you refuse to kind of change that even though you've
25:39
had to change your your business model yeah uh I've always kind of done what I
25:44
wanted you could probably ask Susie to attest to that because she's known me
25:49
for almost 20 years right and you know it's like if you want a boogie you gotta
25:55
pay the band but I'm the band and I'm the Boogie machine so like
26:02
it's not going to be hard to title this episode
26:07
so I mean yeah I mean it's like you're out there on Instagram I've always felt
26:14
um and I think you're the same way that if you want me you gotta meet me and
26:19
it's it's like we have to have a personal connection and if I'm having a shitty show then I'm looking at myself
26:24
and be like well I'm sitting in my chair my arms are crossed uh I'm not engaging with anybody I'm not particularly
26:30
likable uh okay get off your ass get up engage with the people open it up yeah
26:36
and be yourself you know and how are you doing that online I think I'm still
26:42
following my own rules you know uh for the longest time I feel like I've heard
26:48
you got to do this you gotta post every day you gotta you gotta make reels you gotta do hashtags and it's like I don't
26:54
have to do any of that if I don't want to and you can follow that if you want because it works for other people
27:00
but I think as artists we all started doing this because we didn't want to
27:05
have a [ __ ] boss I know right want to have somebody telling us what to do when to do it and what pot to
27:13
[ __ ] in and I still that whole thing of you got an audience fall and let them
27:19
catch you right and that continues to work and you know I don't make normal
27:24
[ __ ] and I don't work with normal people and no I've always had that freak flag flying pretty high and I think it just
27:31
got a little higher you definitely have and that's what I love about you and that's what I loved
27:37
about you immediately when I met you and it's like it took you about 20 minutes I feel like when you came on the art show
27:43
scene before people really knew you and and were like oh my God you know Betty Yeager oh my God
27:51
and that's what I missed like you're kind of a younger up and coming badass and then all of a sudden you're not
27:57
doing it anymore it's like um do you think you'll get back to it are you just enjoying what you're oh absolutely I
28:04
hate this [ __ ] I hate being by myself I don't have an audience it's like you know we make this cool stuff and that in
28:12
person banter learning about new people and learning about new experiences and being
28:17
able to share your stories with people and see where you have similar Landing
28:23
points or touch points I miss human beings I miss my friends I mean I went to Des Moines and I didn't tell anyone
28:30
because I just wanted to see my friends and get some [ __ ] hugs that was amazing you came down from the Twin
28:35
Cities area you're up your Studios up there and you drop down to Des Moines for the day and I think you just did a
28:41
one like down and back you didn't even hang and party with us later did you I didn't part of it was like I don't know
28:48
if I have become such a Luddite and such a homebody I didn't know what would
28:55
happen to me when I got around a bunch of people like yeah pandemic yes but also as a
29:00
single human being who's like three really close friends moved away during the pandemic like I didn't know if I
29:08
still had it and I didn't know if I still wanted to be around that many people because student and art fairs
29:14
that's a lot of people that's not just like four people rolling through my studio in a four hour time period yeah I
29:21
missed shows I miss my friends I miss meeting new people I miss learning new stuff how'd that feel for you was it was
29:27
it weird was it like like get back into the public and walk in the street and because we don't give a [ __ ] about the
29:33
masks outside and anything else because it was like it's like no pandemic Des Moines was on yeah yeah no no yeah no
29:41
rules no regulations just kind of raw dog in it [Laughter]
29:50
I think that's their new city motto actually
29:56
and raw dogging in Des Moines I never even applied because I didn't
30:02
quote unquote professional tent so I was like ah you know maybe one day I'll go visit it and see what it's all about
30:08
Susie showed up in a uh in an easy up I think and they moved her to a rental but they uh yeah they're particular those
30:15
Des Moines uh storms are no joke I mean storms are no joke and I think they're only getting worse but it's not like I'm
30:22
coming coming in hot with a Walmart tent I mean and then these shows a million
30:27
times and I do it as safe as possible you know yeah and when I have to set up
30:33
my jewelry and it takes me three hours in the morning to do that and an hour to put it away at night the last thing I
30:40
want to do is spend an extra three hours putting up a [ __ ] tent yep I hear you but you're safe you're out there and if
30:46
the weather wants you the weather takes you yeah right wind that's one thing I don't miss is [ __ ] wind wind can eat
30:52
my ass uh you know I used to love wins I used
30:58
to love sitting up and now it's just like now it gives me heart palpitations I'm like oh come on and at our age we
31:05
don't need any more of that [ __ ] no we don't right I said I had this one I'll
31:10
tell you a quick story and I want to make it about me this this one's about you but I was doing Greenville artist beer and I was up at the top of the hill
31:17
and I was between kind of between two buildings so it was creating a wind tunnel anyway and then when a storm came
31:24
through it forced through the wind and I'm hanging my big dumb ass off the top of the tent and I'm going like Captain
31:30
Ahab yeah look at take me and I'm screaming Against the Wind and it's like
31:36
it's everything's cutting in I look behind me there's a burger joint and if I let go of the tent it's going to go
31:41
right into the porch where all these you know 50 people are hanging and I'm never going to be able to work again because
31:46
I'm going to be sued and I'm sitting there hanging and I realize like the storm is over just as quick as it began
31:52
and I realized that only me was affected so I'm just hanging on this tent like a
31:58
Maniacs agreement and everybody else is like what's his [ __ ] problem what is his problem it's just it's a little
32:03
drizzle what you got in your coffee Mr Armstrong that's right people people ask
32:08
it man hey speaking of what's in your coffee this is how I picture you working you got a joint in the corner of your
32:13
mouth you're squinning against the smoke you got a hammer in your hand and you're just like [ __ ] let's go she's like
32:20
yeah I worked with her how's the weed work for you in your working process I know you're a fan
32:28
fantastically yeah you know I got a bunch of different strains that do a
32:33
bunch of different [ __ ] for me I got some edibles I do not drink when I am
32:39
making jewelry I did it once on accident and I have permanent nerve damage in my thumb
32:45
I don't even drink that much anymore because it was such a social activity but we'd keep some steady I don't know
32:50
how my hands are so steady with how much coffee I drink it's great it's not like it it's doing the work for me I'm an
32:57
occasional smoker very rarely and I remember you passed something on to me at one show and I went out on the back
33:04
porch and I smoked it and I did not sleep that night I was like my head was going a million miles an hour I feel
33:10
like I was hanging out with Snoop Dogg and Willie Nelson and I just was like Jesus
33:16
yeah I can't what the [ __ ] was that I gotta remember that my strains are very
33:22
strong yeah brother what's happening
33:30
not at all but it made me aware of the fact that you know I'm not sitting
33:35
around with my friends playing music and hanging out and just whatever this is a
33:40
different thing like what are you smoking Betty it's a steady strain of stativa when I'm at the studio really uh
33:47
I think I probably have a very special pH in my body of ADD ADHD uh you know a
33:57
little seasonal depression uh right I don't mean to laugh I'm totally with you
34:02
no everyone's got their different [ __ ] man certain medicines never done a damn
34:08
thing for me except for get me high in the way that I don't want to and growing
34:13
up in Washington state that I think the THC might have just been in my bloodstream and it might have been I
34:20
don't I don't really do anything else every once in a while have a little shot of whiskey sure but that stativa isn't
34:26
active ingredient right is that like so you've got two different strains of weed you get sativa which is a little more
34:33
active and then you got Indica which means into couch probably puts most folks to sleep or
34:41
relaxes them I drink coffee I mean I've always kept weird hours and I finally
34:46
come to a point where I'm like I should have no shame about getting up at noon
34:51
or one and just [ __ ] keeping those wheels turning until two or three in the
34:57
morning there's there's uh something about the night time that feels like the right time for me to be
35:02
creating almost like I'm like a magic jewelry Gremlin just like stoking the
35:09
fire all night long Rumpelstiltskin and you wake up in the morning and you get a pile of jewels
35:15
pretty much sometimes that does happen I'll work through the night and go home
35:20
because I'm tired and come back and be like who made this that's amazing see like I have to stop like I'm I think I'm
35:26
the weirdo and I've mentioned this before but I I work Bankers hours and I don't know what that's about but like
35:33
that's when I feel my most productive and then like I am just this weird nine to five guy and that that's like that
35:39
kind of fits the model I guess for me but I just do it and then that's so weird yeah but the light affects me too
35:45
and I hope it doesn't you but like that I can't work late at night really the light changes I don't like that I prefer
35:51
more of the natural light for finishing and I don't know it's tough there's definitely like I don't like do I have
35:59
any rules I tend to not set diamonds at nighttime because the daylight is much better so
36:06
you can really see like what the stones are doing and I also tend to not work on customers jewelry late at night in case
36:14
something wild happens so like custom stuff yeah so I'm just
36:19
like letting my freak flag fly late at night and it works for me how do you balance custom work being kind of mostly
36:26
an online guy and doing the [ __ ] that you want to do because that custom work takes me 10 times longer than the [ __ ]
36:32
that I want to make yeah or even the perception of it like oh God I gotta do this stuff and you I think about it for
36:39
a month and I think about how hard it's going to be and then I do it and it takes me an hour and I'm like what do you what are you [ __ ] around for like
36:45
yeah but that's work you were working right I mean I mean it's all work that
36:50
whole like do something you love and it never feels like a day where that's [ __ ] but also like I love what I do
36:56
and I think at this point I can confess that it does come pretty naturally getting weird and trying stuff someone
37:03
recently told me that I have a gift and that is not being afraid of [ __ ]
37:09
up um I'm like I don't I don't care like as long as I'm not melting down the same
37:14
thing in the same way as long as I learned from each mistake I'm not scared of making mistakes I'm not scared of
37:21
losing time materials is a different thing if I break the one carat diamond
37:26
well yeah there's tears right definitely but your
37:31
work is not you know we're not talking about Dave gilletti here we're talking about Betty Yeager there's something wide open about your work Dave has this
37:39
Precision that's very like if one line is out of place then you know it if
37:45
you're looking at his work whereas your work it's like one line is out of place [ __ ] you here's another one it's more
37:51
like jazz or if something is too symmetrical I'm like oh I don't like you I gotta [ __ ] you up I gotta like toss
37:57
you across the room this is bugging me like right those two things next to each
38:02
other look like eyeballs or titties I can't stand it like so with the that custom work is there
38:08
that pressure because it's somebody else's perception of your work or do you still get to go wide open I think that I
38:14
have curated a really cool clientele base and it is very very few and far between
38:21
where I have a client that is so rigid that is like I need this this way and I need this color diamond in this exact
38:27
size and I think that I have taken so much time in finding my people and
38:34
having conversations with them before starting the project where I can say hey
38:39
this is a really good idea I want to make sure that you're not concrete on having this 90 degree angle here and if
38:46
you just give me a little artistic freedom I promise I won't make something that sucks that's amazing like standing
38:53
in front of my work people can see what I do they can kind of see that there's no actual formula to
39:00
it and if you try and put me in a box it's not gonna work no that's not going to go well for
39:07
anybody so let's talk about your people you know you're you're mostly online now is it mostly just Instagram yeah I sell
39:14
on Instagram through my stories about once a month or so
39:20
some things happen to me in my formative years of working with Susie at Studio Vincent where I saw a couple really
39:27
talented artists at the beginning of the internet get totally ripped off like a
39:33
company be like we're gonna do this great thing we're gonna put everything online in a shopping cart and you can
39:39
just push buttons and someone copied all their designs Mass manufactured them in
39:45
China and made cheap shitty replicas that was the early 2000s yeah brutal and
39:52
let's get the [ __ ] out of me not like I'm so cool everyone's gonna copy me but more so like I don't want one of my
40:00
clients wearing my rings going out into public and seeing someone with a cheap replica of it yeah and so that's one of
40:07
the reasons why I don't want a website with I mean it would be like for me it would be like standing naked in front of
40:14
a bunch of straight white CIS people I don't I don't I don't want it all out
40:21
there yeah I hear you so okay you but you're
40:26
putting it out on Instagram and you're doing your stories um are these people that found you on Instagram or the people that met you in
40:33
person you kind of cultivate relationships and then they follow you through Instagram yes
40:39
got it everything all the time a little bit of both also I feel like
40:45
uh something I've always said and I've always believed is I get my best clients through my best clients I'm never really
40:52
spent a dime on advertisements and so if I have a good client that will treat
40:58
them well I will make sure they get the really good [ __ ] or first dips on a new batch of diamonds uh I'm not talking
41:04
discounts but like cultivating a relationship and when I send them a package be like hey there's like three
41:09
business cards in there if you don't mind put one in your wallet because you obviously really dig my [ __ ] and you're
41:16
gonna tell your male person or your sister-in-law or some stranger on the
41:23
street that's like what the [ __ ] is that right on yeah so this is why I wanted to
41:28
talk to you too about this because like there's no set way I mean you could do
41:34
the Betty way you got enough work you're turning [ __ ] down you're turning down the custom work my Customs have been
41:40
closed for eight months amazing and do you they're not really closed
41:46
though right can can I eat food no a cute queer person is like hey I want to propose to my sweetie and I'm like [ __ ]
41:52
yeah straight people out of the way you get wow sorry you always tag your stuff
41:59
not at all never you don't apologize you Nev you always tag yourself queer artist
42:04
why is that important it's taking care of a community that's always been pushed
42:09
to the side taking care of our own I don't know I'm I'm the [ __ ] boss I think that
42:16
visibility is really important I think taking care of the community that's
42:21
always taking care of me is really important and also maybe to keep my DMs
42:27
free and clear of people being like hey hey lady hello ladies yeah don't [ __ ]
42:33
call me a lady I got your lady uh right here like right but inclusivity is super important to
42:40
you and it is on a broader scale and it's like um here I am doing the podcast you know
42:47
Douglas and I were born one day apart in 1970. we found that out later so here we
42:54
are a couple of 51 year old white dudes making our art and we want to be more
43:00
inclusive what do we do to make things a little bit more inclusive too you learn you read some books you get the access
43:07
to the same [ __ ] I do that's why when people like how do you learn that it's like open your [ __ ]
43:12
ears and pay attention to what's going on and you decide what's important in your world and you decide how you're
43:18
going to include other people and make sure that black people and brown people and queer people and trans people and
43:25
Ace people have a space in what you're doing instead of definitely catering to
43:31
an audience that has always been catered to the world is run by Rich white straight cisgender dudes and their time
43:39
is [ __ ] up they've had their Spotlight and if one aging queer
43:45
cisgendered woman that be me can make people feel a little more special in this [ __ ] up world I'm
43:52
gonna do it I'm gonna go out of my way to make sure that you know their lights a little brighter
43:58
they gotta save space even if it is on the internet like whatever we make our
44:04
own rules I feel like my parents always taught me rule number one don't be an [ __ ]
44:11
like that's the DNA like that's the Baseline don't be an [ __ ] it's pretty
44:17
[ __ ] hard no it's not and it's also really easy to be an [ __ ] and close yourself off into a bubble and not learn
44:23
and I think that sounds lonely and boring and I got the lonely part covered I'm just
44:29
trying to make sure I'm not boring you're definitely not boring daddy you've never been boring
44:37
Clifton Henry earlier episode I can't remember if he said this to me on the podcast but it's like you can't love
44:43
Black Culture if you don't love black folks it's such a great bass line too
44:48
but it's it seems so simple but so many people [ __ ] it up yeah I mean it's easy
44:54
to close yourself off from the world and be like no what I know and I'm good with it and I'm just like yeah I want to
45:00
learn new [ __ ] every day I'm six feet above not six feet under like yeah why
45:05
would you not wanna grow more and learn more and try and be a better person for the people in your
45:12
life and also for the people on the outskirts of your life what people you don't even [ __ ] know you don't have
45:18
to know somebody to try and take care of them you don't have to know someone personally to want to make sure that
45:23
they're going to be okay like it's not that hard to be a good person I think it takes more effort to be a closed off
45:28
[ __ ] amen it really does all right nice taxi good night everybody
45:35
[Laughter] one of the things that I love about you
45:42
bringing that inclusivity into your work and into your posts on Instagram is that
45:48
a lot of times when you do those sales you you like to give back to the community you know and you have these
45:53
things and you're like you're bringing that back like talk to me a little bit about that and and why that's important
46:00
I think that highlighting marginalized communities is important because I'm
46:06
pretty sure anyone looks at me they're probably like oh what a nice straight white girl oh my God I'm not for this
46:12
thing from straight which is great it's a nice cover sometimes but also yeah I'm gonna use that straight white girl power
46:18
to help people kind of like you know when you are asked to white man it up
46:24
yeah totally you know and that's it you don't always
46:29
get those opportunities and sometimes those uh present themselves and sometimes you're just like you know you can just get in there and
46:36
be like hey uh I'm just gonna use my six foot two white straightness and just
46:41
kind of step in and be an ally if I can um and that's and again it just goes
46:46
back to the kindness thing yeah you got a little give a little you've got a lot give a lot there's so many companies out
46:53
there that make so much [ __ ] money and they don't give back to the communities that are helping them succeed no and they don't even see the
47:00
irony in shooting a giant cock-shaped Rockets into space and having that much
47:05
money it's like could there be a bigger metaphor for too much money just sending
47:10
your giant dick into space it gross no right thank you so you talked about
47:17
your parents a little bit and your parents taught you uh if you have a little you know give a little if you
47:23
have a lot give a lot and you're you're trying to give back your overhead gets cut when you are dealing with covid and
47:31
and all of a sudden you're shut into your house and you're not spending money on gasoline and car repairs and everything else
47:38
and show fees and yeah so who are you giving back to I've learned a lot from a
47:44
lot of my friends in Minneapolis and I'm less about charity and I'm more about Mutual Aid because Charities like I have
47:52
all this money and I'm gonna use it for a little bit of power and a little bit of clout whereas Mutual Aid would be like you're helping individuals or an
47:59
organization make a community better if you can do it why not do it I like to
48:04
focus on indigenous groups black groups specifically black Trans organizations
48:11
because I am a queer person and there are so many things I have to be thankful
48:16
for because of black Trans women and men right I'm a part of the queer community and the queer Community has always had
48:23
my back so I got to turn that around and do that as well um growing up in the Pacific Northwest a
48:30
lot of my inspiration and friends and family not blood family is indigenous
48:36
and like the indigenous culture is something that's a part of my upbringing
48:41
even though I am totally white and I want to make sure that those people are taken care of one of my favorite
48:47
organizations is adopt an elder which is helping Elder indigenous folks they have
48:54
done a lot of work in helping those artists get their art out into the
49:01
public and they do it for free so you've got a tradition of making rugs that's
49:06
about as old as dirt yeah and they help these communities get their art into the
49:14
eyes of more people they also help them hold on to their tradition a little bit longer and I think that's really
49:20
important yeah that's incredible I feel like marginalized communities need our help I just want to help people but also
49:27
if I can Inspire someone else to be a little less selfish and a little more
49:32
looking out for the people that have inspired them loved them taught them
49:38
support them why the [ __ ] not you know it's like everyone learns in a different way in a
49:45
different capacity and I think when you see someone else doing something that is
49:51
good that it resonates with those good human beings and maybe it'll catch like
49:56
wildfire and if not maybe I can just give some money to some people who could really benefit from it right and it
50:03
definitely sticks out in my mind because whenever you know I follow you on your Instagram and I look at your stories and I always see that you're giving back to
50:09
things that are precious and and special to you and it does inspire I don't want
50:14
to just take through my my work and and just go into these communities and take and it's it's cool to try to
50:21
I don't know try to connect on a deeper level like I'm just gonna I'm just gonna
50:26
get pissed and salty for a minute here like when Jazz Fest was canceled yeah
50:32
and then I don't know hurricane came through it's online a lot of artists were like
50:38
jasmus is canceled how about you take that [ __ ] boothy
50:43
and you donate it to a mutual Aid in Louisiana for people who have been helping you make
50:48
so much [ __ ] money at that Festival like do you know how far that's gonna go to get people a generator so they can
50:55
live in a house with lights so the refrigerator can work like we should be giving back to these communities that we
51:01
just like float through once a year right besides the whole like well we're going and we're spending money to for an
51:07
Airbnb or we're going to restaurants it's like you know we can be a little bigger than that and we can give back to
51:13
the communities that make our job our jobs yeah what about the community so they're just filled with Rich [ __ ] though can we just take them yeah yeah
51:20
yeah okay oh I charge them extra Republican tax old Wi-Fi tax weird
51:28
glasses tax you got your gun showing tax go [ __ ] yourself I'm gonna take your money
51:35
you're gonna come back for more goddamn right all right so uh let's talk
51:42
about activism here and what you lived with through covid you were on kind of
51:47
Ground Zero of George Floyd and I mean it's not even too far from where you work
51:53
oh it's like a half a mile from my house yeah I mean you were you were in the [ __ ] so
52:00
talk to me a little bit about that it was pretty wild yeah I was uh very tense
52:05
I mean I'd never seen so many [ __ ] guns in my entire life and it wasn't the citizens it was a [ __ ] National Guard
52:12
coming in not wearing masks and [ __ ] up our city and scaring everyone with
52:17
political Shenanigans I don't know I feel like I was on an accelerated
52:23
learning track yeah um I think what wasn't shown nationally
52:31
internationally is the way that the community took care of their own and also didn't take any [ __ ] right St Paul
52:38
police department Minneapolis Police Department is one of the most dangerous organizations in the nation they've
52:45
killed so many black and brown people with zero regard for their life and zero regard for their responsibility and if I
52:53
got a lot to say about that bring it on there's like unmarked
52:59
Vehicles pulling over in neighborhoods getting out of their cars shooting guns into the air and leaving and those
53:06
individuals were later found out to be police officers and people seriously for the sheriff's department it's just a
53:13
bunch of [ __ ] it is wild and I wish that I could say that so much has changed
53:20
we're still not being heard black men are still being murdered by the police department here in Minneapolis I mean
53:26
I'll say that that's part of my privilege with that I will definitely say that as far as like the education
53:32
goes because you know I only know them through through Susie and through you
53:37
but I follow Sweeney Brown on social and was remembering when they were having
53:43
issues with the police I mean I respect what they have to say online and so I'm watching and I'm looking but I was also
53:49
like this is totally my privilege because they're sitting there saying how much
53:55
they hate the police and I'm sitting there going oh why do you how what's wrong with the police what's wrong with
54:00
the police they've only happened to me because you're a white guy yeah sure look at the outfit you get to wear yeah
54:06
the police department was started many many moons ago to catch slaves it is an organization that is
54:13
built on racism and power exchange and it hasn't changed I have called the cops
54:20
once in my entire life I still kind of regret it but also someone was trying to run me over with their car and I stole
54:26
my credit card blah blah I've other than that no
54:32
okay no like yeah it's uh it's pretty eye-opening to see how much the police
54:38
don't care from going to protests or watching them just like rip in with
54:44
their pellet guns and open crowds of women children people not wearing masks not giving a [ __ ] about their Community
54:49
yeah how was it specifically at that time like you're down in it you're out
54:55
there um living it you're still going to work but you were out there protesting or demonstrating there's a difference there
55:02
and those those words and what words we choose but how was it being in the [ __ ] uh I mean it was pretty exciting to go
55:09
to protests and stand up for people and put my big dumb white body in front of my friends and make sure they didn't get
55:14
hurt I'd stand in between I'm a barrier whatever I got nothing to lose I don't have like I don't have any kids I don't
55:20
have a partner what am I gonna lose like I would much rather put my mouth my body in the way and also listen and learn
55:27
and try and unsew the racist seeds that are in my jeans and your jeans and all
55:33
the [ __ ] that we're taught and it was a lot and it was exhausting and it was
55:39
[ __ ] scary but also I'm a white girl something like this not it's not scary for me because this is something I've
55:46
always paid attention to but also maybe more people are paying attention to it now if you don't stand up for what you
55:53
[ __ ] believe in what are you doing yeah what it's not like have you know it's time for something if you don't
55:59
stand for something you're a piece of [ __ ] how about that that's I don't think that's gonna be a
56:06
very popular bumper sticker I know I know that's why I love you
56:12
but it was really crazy to see the my adopted City in Minneapolis through my
56:18
wife and then my uh City that I spent you know 99.9 of my life in uh erupting
56:25
at the same time because we had this beautiful Street of uh pristine
56:31
Confederate monuments uh that that all of a sudden people opened their eyes to
56:36
and said you know wait wait a minute [ __ ] this too at this at the same time
56:41
you know people a lot of people of color were very aware of that and something
56:46
took all the old white people so it took something for them to wake up and be like whoa hey we just got a racists and
56:55
rapists and pillagers let's burn it down and for anybody that's listening to the
57:01
podcast too and we talk about privilege and it might be bulking at the same like I don't know about this I'm like well
57:06
here's here's a specific example of my what we call White Privilege and it's
57:11
the fact that I grew up walking distance to the Confederate monuments and I would
57:17
just walk my dog down there I delivered newspapers on Monument Avenue walk down there see the sculptures and just think
57:24
that they were pretty they were just cool sculptures as you pass the confederate museum and the Confederate
57:30
Cemetery as you pass the daughters of the Confederacy
57:36
um it was a separate thing like well we can't actually call it the Ku Klux Klan
57:42
so let's call it the daughters of the Confederacy instead and so yeah I mean
57:47
and and opening my eyes to that and then the way that feels and then to see the
57:54
incredible response sculpture that went in the kahindi Wiley in front of the Virginia Museum that was at the
58:00
intersection of Monument Avenue that was you can see this person of color writing
58:07
in the same stance of Pride as you do uh Stonewall Jacksonville the road so it
58:14
was just my privilege to grow up within those and not have to think about what they meant and to just be like who cares
58:22
they're pretty I went through a period and my life was like nah they're they're history yeah that doesn't mean they're
58:27
right right and is there any other place in history that has sculptures to the losing side yeah you want to put up a
58:33
[ __ ] statue of Jeffrey Dahmer or Ted Bundy no yeah it's glorified in the name
58:39
of America or it's or even George III you know and there there's a really
58:45
amazing painting of pulling down King George uh After the Revolutionary War
58:50
and it's like well there you go it's time yeah I'm glad lots of people are waking up I mean we all have a lot to
58:57
learn I have a lot to learn there's tons of weird white supremacist behavior that
59:02
I have to unlearn if you can make the world a better [ __ ] place do it yeah
59:08
stand up for somebody do it if you can teach your old racist relatives a little
59:15
something do it yeah there's small acts there's big acts like I never thought I would
59:21
live in Minneapolis for so long ever but during the uprising was the first time
59:28
that I felt a part of this community and I felt welcomed into so many different communities and doing whatever I can at
59:36
the moment I don't always have the money so sometimes that means you know running food donations to schools or food banks
59:43
or telling people about it like hey then we don't all have money sometimes you can just like take a load of
59:50
groceries get money from your homies get money from your Rich racist relatives and go spend it on money for diapers for
59:57
the community why not and you know if if people are listening to this and they agree with some of the things that
1:00:03
you've said or disagree with it [ __ ] it it at the end of the day what we're boiling it down to is is why can't you
1:00:10
be a little bit more kind yeah right I mean isn't that what it's all about just try and be a damn decent
1:00:16
human being and also like it's never too late to unlearn something never it's like never too late to unravel something
1:00:23
even if you're a racist on your deathbed it's okay to be wrong I promise
1:00:30
absolutely and even like we were talking about this
1:00:36
just the other day we were talking about like so like you can think that your parents aren't racist and then they'll
1:00:41
drop a while he's very well spoken on you it was like he's very well spoken
1:00:46
did you just say like that what the [ __ ] was that that's awful yeah yeah like that that don't do you not
1:00:52
realize that that's a racist statement you sound so ignorant for a white person you didn't say that about Jane Pauley
1:00:59
why are you saying it about Oprah foreign hard eye roll for those of you who
1:01:05
couldn't see that hard eye roll I don't know but I feel like we could actually hear the eye roll
1:01:13
I saw the bottoms are white jesus I mean that's a small Act of love because uh
1:01:21
teaching your racist relatives when they say something racist I mean I was always uh
1:01:26
may not believe this but I got in trouble a lot at the dinner table for telling my dad to shut the [ __ ] up and
1:01:31
not use a certain words he's like I'm telling the story I'm like I don't give a [ __ ] about your [ __ ] story you
1:01:36
can't talk like that you can't say things like that it's 20 20 like I
1:01:42
unlearn things all the time absolutely you know I remember hearing yeah I remember actually this I remember it
1:01:49
really clearly because my my racist old grandparents and uh family aunts and
1:01:55
uncles were sitting around the dinner table and I was young and I heard the n-word for the first time and I walked
1:02:00
up to my grandfather and I asked him what it was and I got a huge laugh and he just stopped talking and he stopped
1:02:07
telling the story and came and talked to me later he's like look you were not being raised with that and I remember
1:02:13
him apologizing for it and I had a like having a long time I was probably like nine or ten and having a conversation
1:02:20
with my grandfather about I don't know it's just those kind of things I don't know why I do know why it sticks
1:02:27
in my memory but it's it's amazing what we have grown up with that you don't
1:02:32
think of you know that you just live with or like it continues to happen and
1:02:37
like I'd shut that [ __ ] down at the dinner table and everyone else at the dinner
1:02:43
table would be like oh you're being so rude I'm like I'm I'm not the one saying racist words or
1:02:49
homophobic words at a table where almost half of your children are queered dad
1:02:55
mom like no you know when I came out to my dad
1:03:01
when I was like 16 years old I was like what would you do if I brought a girl home he's like you bring girls home all
1:03:07
the time I'm like no like if I liked her like her he's like like if you wanted a
1:03:12
neck in the back of a car at a movie and I'm like God yeah Dad he goes well that depends is
1:03:21
that on what he goes well I don't really care who you date you could date a man you could date a
1:03:27
woman you could date a trans person he didn't use those words but we're just gonna go with it you could date black
1:03:32
brown yellow purple I don't care as long as they got a boat as long as they got a boat it's like you
1:03:40
can marry whoever you want baby efficient right right my dad's a
1:03:46
fisherman he's just like he loves fishing he's he's never done it for a living he's done it to feed his family he's done you know what you can find
1:03:53
Common Ground sometimes it's fishing I guess right I know and I'm like well what kind of boat dad I gotta make sure
1:03:58
that he's like oh give a [ __ ] it could be it could be a robot it could be a canoe or a kayak [ __ ] it could be a blow
1:04:06
up Coleman raft from Target I don't care we got a boat that's okay which was you
1:04:13
know pretty different from how my brother is coming out was and I'm like Dad did you forget that conversation
1:04:19
because it's still true like I was very young when I knew it wasn't a fun
1:04:25
Teenage life let me tell you but yeah did he come out when you were you were
1:04:31
much younger like when you're like high school age or yeah to my parents well to my dad not to my mom she couldn't she's
1:04:37
got so many weird deeply rooted things that she learned from her mother that she has an unlearned just like many of
1:04:44
our parents from different Generations but like I don't know I've always been a [ __ ] weirdo I've always been queer
1:04:51
when I was in high school I got called all the bad names in the world like
1:04:58
queer Butch [ __ ] you name it it was thrown at me and I just
1:05:03
oh sometime I learned to be like a duck and just let it roll off my back because we're all gonna have different opinions
1:05:10
about each other and some are more vocal but I don't really give a [ __ ] I'm just gonna be who I am and if that's me all
1:05:18
by myself in the end in a dinghy back to the boat
1:05:25
Common Ground if even if you're coming around as a boat it's got to go somewhere right if you're coming
1:05:30
ground's on water that's that's right oh Jesus I wanted to
1:05:36
get down into it with you more than I wanted to hear about life story and and uh but your life story is interesting
1:05:43
too I started making jewelry at a very young age out of whatever I could get my hands on and then realized after
1:05:49
somebody told me I couldn't go to college because they didn't have money for it and I couldn't make jewelry for a living I had always done it for myself
1:05:56
right as a I don't know an outlet for my feelings because I had a lot of feelings
1:06:02
yeah and uh found a school in Minneapolis and a in the back of a
1:06:07
magazine remember magazines yeah so you went to like a trade school yeah I went
1:06:12
to uh I moved from Tacoma to Minneapolis to go to Minneapolis Community and
1:06:19
Technical College very cool I feel like a lot of people it's it's a disregarded
1:06:24
kind of way to way to earn a trade absolutely I have been looked down upon
1:06:30
in the big fancy Arts Community because I went to Technical College when people are like oh did you go to mcad did you
1:06:36
move to Minneapolis and I'm like [ __ ] no you think I got that kind of money I think that there's this weird don't get
1:06:41
me wrong education and every single different type of form and way that you get an education is extremely important
1:06:47
yep I don't think anyone should be poo pooed for how they gained that education no way I realized that my parents were
1:06:54
basically like college is paid for don't worry you go wherever you want and then when it was my turn youngest of four they're like oh we don't have money so
1:07:00
you're not going to college and I'm like so I found a school and got a lot of
1:07:07
jobs and packed on my [ __ ] up and took a train to Minneapolis and took a chance
1:07:15
and I went to mctc because it was uh one
1:07:21
of two schools in the nation that taught gemology and diamond grading and the other school was like 65 000 a semester
1:07:28
and I was like what couldn't we do for like two grand what can we do you're
1:07:33
right yeah how much for a snip I'm like the Bruce Springsteen John Cougar
1:07:40
Mellencamp of jewelry making like I'm not sure if my collar is blue or my
1:07:47
neck is red but it's a little of both maybe a little bit of both so I come
1:07:53
from a family of talkers I'm sure you could be very surprised with that I don't know what you're talking about
1:07:59
this is this is a news make a couple friends when I leave the house so I figured you know I bet if
1:08:07
somebody gave me the technical skills to do this that I could come up with the creative [ __ ] and I could use my mouth
1:08:15
to to get me where I needed to go so went to mctc working for corporate
1:08:20
America Borders Books and Music to put on some fancy clothes I.E lots of
1:08:25
cleavage and too much jewelry went downtown just talking to jewelry
1:08:31
stores to see what kind of credentials I would need from a college to work at a
1:08:36
jewelry store and everyone was like what are you talking about what are you talking about and
1:08:42
I walked into Studio Vincent and there was some lady with leather pants on and and she basically shoved an application
1:08:48
down my throat very cool this is for the studio yeah this was for Studio visit and I was like she's like no you should
1:08:54
work here and I was like I'm perfectly happy working with my job for corporate I'll take that application yeah this is
1:09:01
the downstairs did you work downstairs first like in the showroom or did you get a job working on the floor with with
1:09:06
Steve Vincent first oh I started at the bottom and worked my way up so this was when he had a gallery space in gavity
1:09:13
Commons and it was like super like glass walls and teeny tiny yeah yeah so I worked at the gallery and then worked my
1:09:20
way into an apprenticeship I worked as a salesperson and I was his best I was the best salesperson he ever had and he told
1:09:26
me that right I can say I can sell some stuff yes you can
1:09:34
yeah and I think I told him that that was my like I was like I want to be a
1:09:39
Goldsmith and I want to do an apprenticeship and I don't know if that's in the cards but if you give me a chance
1:09:45
I won't do you wrong I was so dedicated and I gave my 20s to that man yeah like
1:09:51
I didn't drink on Friday nights because Saturday was when couples would come in and nobody wants to buy an 8 000
1:09:57
engagement ring to someone who smells like the Triple Rock or First Avenue
1:10:02
nobody nobody I mean I was a I feel like none of my friends would recognize me
1:10:08
from the I had platinum blonde hair and that was a pantyhose and high heels and
1:10:15
skirts and dresses and [ __ ] yeah and Victoria was my secret and
1:10:24
and if you don't know Betty now now she's she's more cowgirl boots and booty shorts really I mean I could live my
1:10:31
life in jeans and a t-shirt or short shorts and Boots that's right my I don't need to I'm not
1:10:37
trying to fake anyone anymore I don't need to put on a dress for nobody oh you're not putting on airs is that
1:10:43
that's that Betty's not so tell me a little person drop some truth on me as
1:10:49
far as this goes uh I kind of hate the term salesperson because I feel like I imagine like middle-aged dude with a
1:10:57
comb over and a pinky ring that's either gonna sell you a bad car give you a venereal disease
1:11:06
yeah I feel like a lot of artists are really good at being an artist and some
1:11:12
of them can't sell their work I think that the secret to my success is I I don't [ __ ] if I don't like you it's
1:11:19
probably very aware on my face that I don't like you I'm a really bad liar so
1:11:24
that might make me a good salesperson but I also think that it might be easy to be around me however you are whoever
1:11:32
you are like I'm not a discriminatory person to the furthest of my knowledge
1:11:38
so I think that maybe people are at ease but also I'm excited about what I do
1:11:44
and I always have been and I think uh working at Studio Vincent
1:11:50
as a salesperson for so long asking people for so much money for things
1:11:56
yeah got me really comfortable and being like kind of Romancing the Stone being
1:12:02
like when people are like how much is this I'm not gonna be like this is eight thousand dollars I'm gonna be like oh this is made of platinum with a carrot
1:12:09
and a half diamonds you want to learn something cool you should see how this [ __ ] thing is made you should see the
1:12:14
hammer that you gotta use to do this like blah blah blah I feel like I love to go on adventures and sometimes I take
1:12:21
people on adventures with jewelry it's not just a piece of jewelry like it's a little part of my story and uh I think
1:12:28
that that excitement and that like hard on for what you're doing how you're doing it makes a really big difference
1:12:34
to people instead of like you know my [ __ ] doesn't look like anybody else's it's Unique maybe I'm a little unique I
1:12:42
don't know what do you think maybe a little bit it's not you know I know artists that
1:12:47
are really good at sales like classic almost used car sales and I don't think they do as well as the people who are
1:12:54
going after the honest connection and that's what I'm trying to do and I know that's what you do and it's like okay let's let's tell some stories let's get
1:13:02
down into it let's let's talk about the who I am who I'm I'm trying to be I
1:13:07
always feel like I just have my worst show of the year is usually my first show of the year because I just haven't
1:13:12
really I've forgotten how to talk to people yeah you're a little squeaky the wheels are a little scary yeah it's like
1:13:18
it's like a big bottle of WD-40 yeah definitely and sometimes it's a you know
1:13:25
big old bottle of Maker's Market but you gotta open yourself up the way you can and it's it's just gonna I don't know I
1:13:32
I appreciate that about you because I when I did first meet you it was definitely more of a ah [ __ ] I know you
1:13:39
and it's like you just lay it all out you know and it's kind of like ah okay I
1:13:45
and there's very few people I was lucky enough to meet my wife that way and it's
1:13:50
like this recognition and I always say that about her I'm like oh [ __ ] I think my wheels are gonna fit your cogs it's
1:13:57
just and it's that kind of honesty that I appreciate about you laying it all out on the line I just put my cards out on
1:14:04
the table that's why I'm not a good poker player somebody recently was like what are you not good at I'm like
1:14:09
drinking and lion
1:14:14
those are great things not to be good at it's good at laughing good at connecting
1:14:21
with people I look like I could hold a lot of booze but I'm a [ __ ] lightweight also I don't need liquor to
1:14:28
have a good time I could have let's go away sober is a Jay perk usually I'm stoned though but I I'm you know I mean
1:14:36
I'm really surprised no one's been like oh for a good time call I've called you before
1:14:41
oh yeah recognize her that number looks familiar
1:14:48
hey here's something that you brought up early on in the conversation that I wanted to Circle back to you said
1:14:53
something about not feeling ready to apply to shows because you felt like the work you had was not current man is that
1:15:00
some horseshit just apply okay yeah it doesn't feel so Rusty I mean literally the last show I did was yeah Baltimore
1:15:07
2020. I don't know there's this weird looming like do I have to reinvent the wheel like right do I need a new display
1:15:14
do I have to go buy a new tent do I need to make new tables probably not no way I
1:15:20
don't know it's like Mark Maron I was listening to one of his comedy bits about he was talking about exercise and
1:15:25
getting back in shape and whatever and he's like I need to Liz like whatever blah blah blah and he's like he always
1:15:30
tricks himself into thinking he's got to buy the magic pants or the magic shoes that are actually going to make him do
1:15:36
the [ __ ] that he has to do it's like and I know a lot of artists do that with a magic Booth you know Matthew navsker he
1:15:42
and I talk about booths and things and I'm like I always want to tell them you don't need the magic Booth you don't need the new magic table just get out
1:15:49
there and sell your [ __ ] you'll be all right I mean you've seen my setup my setup's like all right well if somebody
1:15:54
leans on this table it's not going to fall over and if uh [ __ ] hits the fan and a
1:16:01
tornado whips through I can just like ball this into a backpack and I'm good I
1:16:07
don't want a fancy you definitely could but your setup has a certain style to it and you have a certain branding to your
1:16:13
to your work that that works for you and and it's all um you I can go grab your your most
1:16:20
expensive piece off of your table pretty much and just look at it yeah
1:16:26
we're talking artists here but you know you've got it like you lay it all out on the table as far as your yourself you
1:16:33
put all your [ __ ] out on the table as it is it's like I you know I've picked up some of your work before and be like oh
1:16:38
my God I'm just holding a 3 500 piece you know I can't just but you know so you just went up a
1:16:44
weight class and that's like eight ounces of [ __ ] silver and I'm like exactly you could break somebody's teeth
1:16:51
not only in that jewelry but it's a statement to [ __ ] around and find out you could you could you know this is on
1:16:58
a chain line if you could make somebody lose a tooth if they're [ __ ] with you from six feet away you remember the
1:17:05
piece I picked up but you know it's just it's it's all out
1:17:10
there and you're laying it all out there and it's it's all part of your style too so and I appreciate that being pretty
1:17:16
and I know you work on it but it's pretty well realized it seems like from the shell you emerged pretty much fully
1:17:23
realized thank you I feel like jewelry is one of those things that I hear a lot standing behind that table of people
1:17:29
being like I don't like jewelry and it's like okay please consider jewelry's art and there's lots of Art and when there's
1:17:36
so much jewelry that means there's so much ugly [ __ ] that's right that's been done
1:17:44
a million times before so like maybe you just haven't found the right jewelry yet it's also this weird like accessibility
1:17:51
thing where people are like oh expensive stuff I don't want to touch it and that's kind of one of the reasons why I
1:17:57
lay it all out on the table except for like I have two cases where like I would cry for maybe too long if one of those
1:18:04
pieces got stolen so they go in the case but and you've had it happen too haven't we all I know that Kentucky story
1:18:11
[ __ ] Chester his name was Chester tell us a story he took my jewels
1:18:21
when you sell hiring and items as you know sometimes people have to come visit
1:18:26
it a couple times in an art show right so then you're like you're like oh you're back you're back to like maybe
1:18:33
buy something he was scoping out the case he talked to me we had conversations he told me how much he
1:18:39
liked my jewelry and he was uh scoping out my [ __ ] and waited till I went to
1:18:46
the bathroom my assistant was there and uh stole maybe like four pieces that
1:18:52
amounted to about five thousand dollars and it came back from the bathroom and
1:18:58
my friend Jules was like oh your buddy Chester came back and I'm like oh what was he looking at and she's like oh no
1:19:05
and I'm like the pieces that aren't here and she's like oh my God girl I'm so sorry I'm like
1:19:12
he had three other artists three other jewelry artists at that show he picked like the biggest heaviest silver pieces
1:19:18
I told the show directors and they're like we're gonna call the cops I'm like don't call the [ __ ] cops I don't want to call the cops I don't want to call
1:19:25
the cops like they're like but how I'm like Capstone means this to handle I
1:19:30
don't believe in the cops I just want my [ __ ] back I don't want anyone to go to jail I don't want to ruin anyone's life
1:19:36
because they made a poor decision to [ __ ] with the wrong [ __ ] generous of you because I sure as hell like to catch
1:19:43
their leg outside the car door I mean you know I would love to find them in
1:19:49
person because little did they know I have a photogenic memory and if I ever see him again I'm not a violent person
1:19:55
but I am prepared and words cut deeper and truer sometimes I did find out I
1:20:02
feel like I didn't tell anyone this but a year after that happened I went back to Louisville to do the same show and I
1:20:09
went to a Gallery downtown Lulu which is like a strip in Louisville there's
1:20:16
probably like five or six smaller galleries there and this one one was like oh don't you just love Louisville
1:20:22
and everybody's just so nice and trusting and I was like actually [ __ ] no I don't let me tell you and she's like
1:20:29
oh [ __ ] sir and I was like jesser did she know Chester what she's like
1:20:36
older man I was like yeah it looks like a short mama's boy version of Fred Armisen from SNL and she's like yeah oh
1:20:43
my God that [ __ ] and I was like tell me what you know he's known in Louisville he really likes
1:20:50
the same steel really big heavy silver pieces and who knows if he's like reselling them or just hoarding them uh
1:20:56
he kept hitting the same like four Galleries and they kept calling the cops and the cops didn't do anything because
1:21:02
they didn't have proof so they set up their own surveillance and caught him and he went to jail did they catch him
1:21:07
no [ __ ] did he ever find out what happened to your stuff no because I
1:21:13
didn't because they didn't follow the rules and file a police report
1:21:20
I mean it's just stuff right it's just stuff let's put his party your he made a
1:21:27
connection yeah you know I mean it would feel different if he didn't treat me like a human being if and if I
1:21:34
didn't treat him like a potential client also right a human [ __ ] being like don't lie to me don't be a dirtbag I
1:21:42
don't know if there is a lesson because I really don't want to put my jewelry in a case it's just like the same thing
1:21:48
when people are like oh so you have a gun I'm like [ __ ] no I don't want to live in a world where I feel like I need a gun to do my job to just be another
1:21:55
human being who sometimes happens to have a 75 pound sack of jewelry that costs about 250 000 like you know right
1:22:03
my daddy taught me to walk like people shouldn't [ __ ] with me and also maybe get a really big knife and put it right
1:22:10
where my best largest asset is which is my bottom um
1:22:16
I've seen your Jewels too you can you know if you're wearing any of that [ __ ] you can you can stand up for yourself I
1:22:23
mean part of me is like oh please try and steal this bag you'll take too yeah I wish the [ __ ] would and with my four
1:22:29
and a half foot long legs I'll just kick your dumb ass over and you can just turtle out
1:22:36
just turtle out I will never put my jewelry in a rolling
1:22:43
bag because that makes it too easy I hear you we all hide our [ __ ] but we gotta be we got to watch out for each
1:22:49
other we all do different things with the baby the baby comes with us
1:22:55
yeah can I carry your books for you we watch out for each other though
1:23:01
we do also I will put this out there hey artist friends if you are a non-jewelry
1:23:07
artist and you have some friends that make jewelry check in on them if you
1:23:12
want an escort to their car right see if like if you can spare an extra 35
1:23:18
minutes in your day to wait till they pack up and make sure that they get to their car I am a big girl and I can
1:23:25
[ __ ] take care of myself but that does not mean I don't appreciate the company or someone looking out for me
1:23:32
absolutely and also yeah I totally know what you mean you know what I mean
1:23:37
because you have Susan and I mean definitely I would rip someone's head
1:23:42
off with my teeth if they ever [ __ ] with Susie because she's not as big and
1:23:47
scary as me she could be scary when she wants to but I know what you mean oh I
1:23:53
know oh yeah but no that's a that's a huge Point um you know people talk about
1:23:58
Jewelers rolling up in their cars and they can set the show up in you know a few hours without the big display and
1:24:04
you can roll you know she's rolled in in a little Volvo hatchback people are like oh my God here comes a jeweler but at
1:24:10
the same time you're sticking around an hour after the fact and and I'm getting there two hours early and I have urinary
1:24:19
tract infections constantly because I can't just leave my [ __ ] Booth unattended yeah take another break and
1:24:27
then go talk to your Jeweler neighbors and let them go to the bathroom if you're selling 2D that doesn't walk away
1:24:32
way or check it you're next to a jeweler and you see they're by their self be like hey uh I am here with my partner
1:24:40
and one of us can check you out you know watch you for a while or whatever you need to take a break just let us know so
1:24:46
feel free to uh use the restroom or get your period because we've got your back
1:24:51
right Jesus especially your women Jeweler friends
1:24:56
yeah next time you feel like being like Oh you're dealers you just roll in here and
1:25:01
use it knock that [ __ ] off right all in the same boat we all want everyone to
1:25:09
have a really good show like I have been sized up by so many people like oh you're a [ __ ] Jeweler it's like
1:25:16
listen ask her do you would you how would you like to take your entire tent
1:25:21
and your entire livelihood and pack it up and put it in a backpack and carry it around every day right and maybe knock
1:25:28
your party with your friends because you got 250 000 sitting in your hotel room like right I have never personally
1:25:36
forgotten my um entire body of work in a backpack in a bar
1:25:42
but I know it's possible for you guys oh it's not possible for me but it's
1:25:48
probably a reason why I don't drink so much anymore either never come close but it's like you know let's all just look
1:25:54
out for each other uh when you get precious little expensive things that are sometimes heavy I don't know this is
1:26:01
you know just look out for each other quick given the jewelry is a hard [ __ ] time yeah other artists a hard
1:26:07
time for their medium I just give them a hard time for being homophobic
1:26:13
crab apples like awesome anybody out there at a show and I'm at a show and
1:26:19
some your neighbor's giving you [ __ ] call me I will set them straight I'm not scared of anyone I've done it before
1:26:25
just be nice to each other that's all it matters not call me
1:26:33
be nice yeah in case you didn't know my favorite movie is Roadhouse so
1:26:40
be nice be nice until it's time to not be nice
1:26:46
I love you Betty I love you too thanks for coming on the show I appreciate you
1:26:52
more than you know I miss you I'll give Susie a big squeeze for me okay I'm gonna go do it right now I love you
1:26:57
Betty thanks again love you too will bye bye bye bye that's a different podcast
1:27:03
ending awesome talk with Betty well I really
1:27:08
enjoyed what you guys had to say yeah no apologies from Betty She is who she is and you get what you get um I like the
1:27:16
part of her talk where she's talking about people who have lived their lives
1:27:21
with privileges that they don't even realize that they have you can kind of feel this sense lately uh with where we
1:27:27
are this kind of like this impatience everyone's so like impatient and and
1:27:33
angry and there was a story that I wanted to share that happened uh this
1:27:38
weekend at the Grove and it involved some of our good friends of the Pod Amy
1:27:44
Carson and and Daphne Covington they're packing up the show at the end of the show they're getting all their stuff
1:27:50
into the van and we look down and they're about 10 10 12 booths down from us and there is this huge altercation
1:27:58
this shouting match and I see these two ladies just like hurrying and scurrying
1:28:05
in and out of their van just trying to like avoid this deal well what happened is one of the food vendors had their
1:28:10
food truck hooked up to their their truck and they pull right up to where Daphne and Amy are and they want to exit
1:28:18
where their van is at at the curb and they had just like through them they want to just go basically drive through
1:28:24
them and they wanted them to move their van and they wanted them to move now and neither one of them want any kind of
1:28:31
Confrontation and they were like we just have one or two more things to throw on the van we'll be out of the way but this
1:28:36
wasn't fast enough for this privileged [ __ ] so it just so happened right at
1:28:42
that timing a security guard who wasn't going to take any [ __ ] from anyone was there and he said you guys finished
1:28:50
packing up I've got this and this shouting match between these these two guys was intense and it was vehement and
1:29:00
I'm so glad that they got out of there without any like any fist being thrown but nowadays you don't know if a gun's
1:29:06
gonna get pulled if someone's I mean if it's gonna go to blows But ultimately the idea was that this guy wanted out
1:29:12
and he wanted them to move because he wanted out and it was his time so yeah I
1:29:18
mean I'm glad that that person stepped in so that they didn't so that Amy and Daft didn't have to stop what they were
1:29:24
doing right but um I ain't [ __ ] with Amy and Daphne you want to stay on their
1:29:30
good side there's nobody I love more than those guys but it's like man they can stick up for themselves that guy was
1:29:36
in trouble if he kept pushing it yeah but I think he was really trying to throw his privilege around and just boss
1:29:43
them the heck around and it's just not right it's just not right at all so nope I messaged them the next day because I
1:29:50
was wondering if we needed to go over there as you know an artist Community to help him out but when I saw that the
1:29:55
security guard was the one who was doing the yelling I thought okay maybe they're not even involved maybe daff and Amy
1:30:01
aren't even involved in this deal so I I out of curiosity I texted her the next day
1:30:06
and I said was that aimed at you and she told me the whole entire story and I
1:30:11
said well I'm glad that you weren't like in the conflict that you were just conflict adjacent for that situation
1:30:20
conflicted Jason yes haven't we all been there I mean there's always some kind of kind of breakdown I remember doing a
1:30:27
show in uh South Carolina Adele I was doing that show and it's a tough
1:30:32
breakdown you have to do a lot of dollying to get out of this cool little castle that's there on you know there
1:30:38
was a literally a hurricane coming in and we were getting the outer rings of this hurricane and my neighborhood he
1:30:44
and I had a great weekend he's he's like but pulled right in front of the back of
1:30:49
my van couldn't even open the back of my van I'm like Brian what the what's going on he's like well I've got to get my
1:30:55
work out it's like okay okay uh you know if
1:31:01
people I don't know it all becomes me me me sometimes we need to step back
1:31:08
and be like do a little reality check here you know when we start finding our impatience and our what about me meter
1:31:16
going through the roof we need to take a deep breath and say okay it's all about all of us we all need to make this work
1:31:22
together right that's a little Kumbaya is that how you're gonna bring us out there
1:31:30
all right it's the singing portion of the podcast that means it's over ladies and gentlemen thank you for tuning in to
1:31:35
another independent artist podcast I'll see you next time who do we have on the dock at Douglas next episode we have
1:31:42
another Minneapolis native Kimber FEI bigger the bronze Humpty Dumpty lady I
1:31:48
went to her Gallery in studio and got immersed in kimber's world and it was
1:31:53
just it was a lot of fun so that's awesome I've admired kimber's work for uh many years and it'll be interesting
1:31:59
to hear the talk for well I've heard it but it'll be interesting for everybody else to hear it uh next time we'll see
1:32:04
you folks in a couple weeks be safe out there on the road be good to each other don't block each other's Vans and don't
1:32:10
be an [ __ ] there we go all right bye guys this podcast is brought to you by
1:32:16
the National Association of Independent Artists the website is naiaartists.org also sponsored by
1:32:23
zapplication that's zapplication.org and while you're at it check out Will's website at will
1:32:31
armstrongark.com and my website at cigarithglass.com be sure to subscribe
1:32:36
to this podcast to be notified when we release new episodes [Music]
1:32:50
[Music]



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