When your Child Hits, Yells or Melts Down, What To Do | Real Parenting Tools

If your child is hitting, yelling, refusing, or melting down, this conversation will completely shift how you see their behavior.

In Part 2 of this powerful episode, parenting expert Gen Muir, founder of @connectedparentingau joins Donna Moala to break down what’s really going on beneath “bad behaviour” and why boundaries are not about control, but safety.

You’ll learn:

• Why anger is often a “bodyguard” for deeper emotions
• The biggest misconception about gentle parenting
• How to set firm boundaries without punishment
• What to do in real moments of hitting, biting, and escalation
• Why neurodiverse and strong-willed kids need more connection, not less
• Simple language shifts that instantly de-escalate your child

This episode is practical, honest, and deeply reassuring for modern parents trying to do things differently.

Because your child isn’t trying to be difficult.
 They are having a hard time.

Follow Gen Muir: 

Website: https://www.connectedparenting.com.au/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/genevieve-muir-31841733/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/connectedparentinggenmuir

Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/connectedparentingau/  

Buy the book: Little People Big Feelings by Gen Muir: https://www.panmacmillan.com.au/9781761560743/

I would appreciate it greatly if you could please LIKE and FOLLOW this podcast and if you are not following me over on instagram, head over there for all of my top tips and advice around sleep and parenting @parentingcollective.au.  I also offer a free 15 minute phone chat to run through all your questions CLICK here to book your FREE 15 minute chat

Much Love 💞

Donna Moala 
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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

And you know, we we talk about um important about how important boundaries are, it makes them feel safe, loved and you know, secure. Um and uh I think it again it was probably Megadent. Maybe Vanessa Le Point, maybe you, about um if you imagine walking across a bridge in the night without rails, you'd be crawling and panicking that you're going to fall off the edge of the bridge. But if there's uh really secure rails, you'd walk over confidently. That's boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

100%.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

You know, because again these words are all thrown away around, but I'm like, we are humans having a human experience, and these are the things we have to do as parents, you know, rather than being that gentle, permissive. I don't even like saying gentle because then it's it just has that connotation of too soft.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Well, it won't gentle parenting was a term coined by a parent educator called Sarah Ockwell Smith in the UK, and she determined it as a way of describing authoritative parenting. So it's all that we're all the same thing. Um but the term went viral on social media, and the problem with social media is it's a lot easier to talk about how to name feelings and how to connect with kids than it is to talk about the how-to have boundaries because the how-to have boundaries is actually very physical.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

So um, you know, we're often physically helping our kids get off the couch. We're physical. Definitely want to talk about that. I'm physically taking the phone on my 15.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Because you're like, oh, I can't touch them. And this is it's a bit like we were talking about with men. Like men are so beautiful and so important in our lives. And I talk about what I always say to my husband, you know, um, soft heart, strong man, because he wants to be the man of the house, you know, and it's like still having because they are, they're just like little boys inside. But um, then it's always also like you can't touch a child, you can't do that. But I want to talk about that. Yeah, let's delve into Go for it. So, book, if anyone watches this, um, and I I was saying I share this with a lot of my clients because it's obviously I talk all this sort of talk with my clients one-on-ones and stuff, but I I love this book because it is quite specific, and I think if you haven't got that muscle to train, you haven't had that muscle trained yet, great start to get that going. So I think the scripts are uh can help with the uncomfortableness because obviously, like you said, you're not so worried about the scripts, but they get us going.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

So for me, for me, it was learning a few um words and things that I could do to help me be in the mode.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Because it feels uncomfortable, doesn't it? It feels really odd at the beginning because I was thinking with a strong-willed kiddo, and um you've got to be stronger. It's absolutely goes the opposite, and so everyone's telling us to consequence more, and she was just going off the rails, not off the rails, but like I just can't explain it. And because I've had that experience, and she's such a beautiful, kind kid, um, her strong-willed personality we nearly broke her accidentally.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

I think a lot of strong-willed kids are they're highly sensitive or deep-feeling, and 30% of the population is highly sensitive or deep-feeling, and what that means is they just absorb more of the world and of emotions. As a result, they're more likely to have more cortisol in their system, especially as kids, as they learn to feel all of that. And so they're more prone to either anxiety or um anger, and anger's a front emotion, it often sits in front of worry or disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So in the thick of it, so so Aloise went through her anxiety because all of all of us are neurodiverse. Um, that's another thing I'd like to touch on if we can, but you know, lived it, and I didn't know I had it. You have it when you're a child, but um you just live with it. But then your kids get start to get diagnosed, you would know this, and you're like, oh, is that not normal? So the eldest was sort of internal, and her fight-flight response, which is that worry, is go within, and so m our second with the ADD is um fighting, fight, flight. So when we were getting support for her, it was like, oh, that makes sense. Fearful, a bit, bit frightened within. And then the psychologist went, fight, flight, freeze, fawn. And I'm like, fight. So our daughter who had the anxiety started having anxiety, um, it was her anxiety was aggressive, not aggressive, but yelling and whatever, and we wanted to fix that. And but the poor thing was worried.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Well, it's a bodyguard, and sometimes if you if you can get really close to a kid that is so angry, yeah, and you know, I remember saying this to my son once, and I can said, I can see that you're so angry about whatever it is, right? Totally, it could be totally the brother, the whatever.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Whatever, someone's teased them, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

And I think that this is really hard, or you're really worried, or you're really disappointed, and often they crumble like this underneath that.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I missed that part. Well, yeah, it's funny, not funny. I missed doing that. I missed that, I didn't know about it. I didn't know about it, and so then as she got older, she got defensive. And so, you know, she has to over time had to regain my trust. Because even though I was loving and trying to help her, it wasn't enough. The loving and trying to help her wasn't enough. It was hearing her when they're a bit younger, like toddlers and stuff. If I had used this when she was a toddler, she would have allowed me in. But because it was I it was too late and I was just trying to fix, fix, fix, she was like, get away. You know, whereas I think I I mean I can't take it back, and but I think really all that you're doing when we're implementing it as toddlers absolutely gives them that regulation when they get a bit older.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

It helps. I mean, I still think you're still on another journey. I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

I I know I'm sure there are times where you think, um, but I just love hearing your stories about the boys and stuff like that, because boys can be boys, and boys are a bit more rough and tumble, aren't they? Like little boys sometimes, you know?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Not all boys, not like that.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, I suppose a combination of four, you'd have you'd probably have one that's a bit more uh robust, you have one that's a little more sensitive, like one of the gentlest souls you've ever met.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah, so beautiful. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

I love that though, too. But that is boys, that's men, aren't they? There's so much goodness in this amazing book, Little People, Big Feelings. Um, and it's the go-to parenting guide uh for dealing with kids with big emotions. Um, and so there's so many uh obviously gold in here, but the one that I really want to talk about and we've deep dived into is when things escalate, like the hitting, biting, throwing. And like you were saying, for me, when the anger comes out, it's like, oh my gosh, they're going to be serial killers, they're going to be prostitutes on the street. Destined for prison. This is destined for prison, as you say. So they're not, it is age appropriate, as you talk about in here, and I love how in this book you not only explain in in nice, easy, understandable terms of what's age appropriate, what's normal, because often we fear that. We're like, why is that kid so compliant and lovely and my kid's crazy?

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

We want to normalise the c the the the escalation. So, like you were saying before, really um you separate the behaviour from the child. Yeah, it's meaning the child's good. The behaviour might be annoying, frustrating, but it's not the child. Often, I think at times if we don't understand all of this, we think that's a child. Well, I know I did. I just was like, that behaviour's her. But really, it wasn't, it was underlying anxiety that came out. That's right. So what you're saying in here is you know, no no child wants to hit or hurt, you know, no child wants to get disappoint. Um, really, if we really, really hear that in our minds when they're being a bit difficult. Um, and and so then it's our role with with the tools that you've got to be able to support them. So what you're saying, the aggression is like that bodyguard, so it's the underlying response to something else that's going on.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah, I mean, a way to put it um that that good kid thing is um it's the most generous assumption that we can make. So um, you know, imagine that you're driving in traffic and someone cuts you off and you can either completely lose it and go, what a dickhead. What a dickhead. I could say some words. Blah blah blah blah blah. Um honk your horn. I mean, we've seen, we see road rage where people get out and bash each other. Totally. So that's that's that's one way. Or someone cuts you off in traffic and you go, maybe they're on the way to hospital, right? So we make an assumption. Now I choose to go around the world, not just with my kids, but I choose to assume we're all doing the best that we can. Um, and if you if you can really reframe that for kids, we do live in a society that has almost tried to convince us that babies are trying to manipulate us from birth, that children need to be almost the evil needs to be sort of taught out of them. And that's where behaviouralism came from. We needed to punish or reward or change the badness in kids. Kids, we now know that that regulation, um, learning to have your prefrontal cortex help you process emotions takes 25 to 28 years. That it is a process where kids have to do it to learn. Yeah. Um and so we're doing that. I think the challenge for modern parents though is that our kids are behaving and doing things we would have never because we are parenting differently. So they are not in fear. My kids have never been in fear of being seen.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

And that's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

It's a beautiful thing. So as a result, our kids are gonna show us that they struggle to separate or that they don't want to go to bed or that they want a snack, and they're gonna they're gonna throw, literally, throw things, they're gonna hit each other, they're gonna do things that we might not have dared to out of fear. Totally. That's a really hard position for millennial parents, modern parents to be in because they're trying to do something different to the way they were raised with kids that feel more confident to show that they're not.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

That's actually probably a bit more challenging because we're allowing them to be feel safe.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

That's a really hard thing, and that's where I think we do need the skills to assume kids are wanting to be good. No child wakes up and thinks, I know what I want to do today, I want to make my family's life live in hell, I want to throw a tantrum, I want to hit my sibling all day. No kid wants to be the one in trouble. They don't. If we can know that in our heart of hearts, then when we see a kid, and I always talk about it, if we could visualize five out of ten is that kid tipping up into full dysregulation where they're going to make a mistake. Well, behaviour that's not pro-social.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Totally.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So behaviour that's not, it's okay to have feelings, throwing a fork is not great.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

No.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Yeah, because someone could get hurt. Totally. So that's when we're stepping in, and that's why in that first sorry, I moved around the table, I grabbed my son's arms. I'm pretty firm physically in that I'm like, whoa, but it's from a place of I can see you're not okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

I love you, yeah. Yeah. But don't do that.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

You're a good kid. Well, I don't even know.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

No, you're not saying that. No, you don't say that, but they know and they respect and love you. And so this is so you just keep going.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Your kid is either okay or not okay. Totally. If they're hitting, hurting, melting down, they're not okay, and they need help.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

So I will, I know this is a whole nother topic and I just want to touch on it.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Your your so uh strong will kill kids, yes, but I I work a lot with neurodiverse children with sleep, with my own family, and so again, I've studied, researched, and um implemented. Sleep's very important, of course, but when we're talking about something like this, I I think when I've read this, you could absolutely use this with neurodiverse children. Yes. Um, because people are like, oh no, they do this, this, this. What I will say is parenting a neurodiverse child is a hundred times harder, it really is. And I've lived it and I see it and I help families. So I do want to sort of allow parents to know, okay, it is a bit harder.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Uh uh look, parenting, if you imagine that for a, you know, for a child with ADHD, you're gonna get 10,000 more micro injections.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

I said 100, but it's 10,000, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Um their nervous system just in any given day is that much more dysregulated. It is that much harder for them to cover. So parenting that child is unrelenting. It is. It is so much harder, it will bring you to your knees and absolutely it will feel harder.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But at the end of the day, the same things that every human needs, neurodiverse kids need, all kids need is to know that they're seen and they're safe and they're loved. And how could we think for a second that, you know, I've seen parents of neurodiverse kids told, oh, they just need more timeouts.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

And I'm like, No way.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

That kid absolutely not needs to be lovedable. So everything I write about in my book, I know works for all kids. It does.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

And I really wanted to sign up.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Only because I've run it past the best of teams. And 100%.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Yeah, you're very highly educated and intelligent and implement, you know, like this is for yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

I know it does that these kids even more so need these things.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

They do.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

It's harder as a parent, so it comes back to our own ego and like you know, but I think it's accepting that like the 30%'s really important, but it's also accepting um and actually giving yourself a lot of compassion.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yes, that's what I want to say.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

That actually be kind to yourself. That actually um, you know, uh if you've managed to show up and do some connection with your child, or if you've managed to set a boundary in a way that is different to the way you were raised, even if it's messy and clunky, but there was firmness and kindness, if you've managed to stop and go, I can see you're not okay, and I'm trying, or just say sorry, or be reflective. 100%. You're absolutely killing it. Yeah, and give yourself compassion because it is really hard being a parent in general, it is really hard learning each of our children, and it is excruciatingly hard if your child is struggling and kids who are neurodiverse, particularly in the early years, are going to struggle so much more because they're working so much hard to get a handle on those emotions.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

And so, what ends up happening, and I was warned about this before we even got the first child diagnosed, because it was a slow diagnosis because it, you know, girls typically um mask it and it's in their brain rather than hyperactivity. Um, so it was a it was quite a journey, but um, they end up sadly um, and I and this is again not to fit for fearing of this, to understand your child, that they already start to know that they're different, and so it might not be labelled, it might not be huge of like a hyperactive child, but they start to feel it, so we need to nurture them more and and love them and nurture them um and uh help them understand. You don't have to tell them they've got ADD or whatever, but it's just understanding it's just a little bit more structured like this, but it might take double the time.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

And also when they have the big reactions, often you can't do what you did, you know, like going over and with the the fork. Often an uh uh ADD kid who's already done that, you might not be able to touch or talk. It's just being in their space, not over talking, using the same skill set, but it might just take a bit longer.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Do you find that a little bit with the look at canta?

SPEAKER_01 14:51

I mean, I still think the same things apply. I worked with a family with an 11-year-old that was at the time um throwing furniture and glassware at their heads, and I said, they said, you know, understand.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:03

And I said she's so big, and I said I said, You're bigger. Yeah, yeah, but I always say you're the adult. You have to be.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

And so I was like, And I mean stand up.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Yeah, she does not want to throw glasses at your head.

SPEAKER_00 15:14

She doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 15:14

So I I still believe that kids need help if they're hurting or hitting. Yes. But absolutely, we're trying to respect that space as well. 100%. So you're as close as you can be without making it worse. Yes. But the biggest thing is just checking your own reactivity. And what I would say about that is actually, you know, we never, I'm never trying to tell my kids to take a deep breath.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Never. I saw that in there because I used to do that. That's like red reading to a book. It's so funny. I don't know. I know. I laugh so many times because I'm like that's it.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Go to the calm down corner. I am calm down corner. I am trying to model everything. So what I'm saying to myself is this is a hard moment, I'm doing the best that I can. Um, this is really tricky for me.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Because adults are borrowing our nervous system. Yeah, what's actually happening is they're borrowing what they can of us.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

And I always liken it to, like you sort of um mentioned, that honestly, the prefrontal cortex is all about emotions and regulation, is not fully developed to mid-twenties. We as adults, we as parents have to be their frontal cortex for a bit. Just let them lend it. And it's not easy, especially when they're throwing glasses. And the other thing is with neurodiverse kiddos, what I find and what I uh support my parents with, um, you know, I'm reflection of uh what you talk about, is trying to be one step ahead as they get older. So if they're glass throwers, if they're whatever, yeah, don't have the I'm not kidding, this might sound ridiculous, don't have the glasses around. Meaning she might throw a pillow, not gonna hurt people so much. Yeah, being one step ahead as they get older, having the family meetings.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Having the meetings, I think that's a big having them included of like, okay, if this is what happens next time, and they have a big outburst, then there's a natural consequence of discussion afterwards. Like that's a big thing too. Um, so like we were talking about the angry is like a the sad's bodyguard, so that protective thing, um, so and also deep diving into thinking about the underlying cause. So, like you said, you know, school, tired, um sensory stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:10

I think one of the best questions, the most useful questions you can ask in parenting begins with the words I wonder. So um, you know, I remember recently listening to my husband, bit of an amazing moment. He's in the kitchen, I can hear my youngest child screaming about the way he's cut his toasty. Yeah, and he's just like, You cut my toasty, and my husband's coming back with logic. So it tastes just the same. Just eat it, right? As we do, and he's going, No, you cut my toasty, I didn't want to cut, you never listen to me. And he's just come back with, Well, take it or leave it, or I'll make you another one. And it was kind of just building and building. And then I heard my husband say, I cut your toasty, and you didn't want it cut. Also, we used your tactics, and it's the first day back to school today, and I wonder if it's feeling a little bit hard to go back to school. So, what he's done you like this in the background clapping. I was what he's done there is he's narrating what's happening. Sure. So, all what I want to say to parents is this is really hard to do. Yeah, very hard to do. All you try to focus on is repeat back what you hear. If you just literally go, You're really upset because I cut your toasty.

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

That's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

And then they go, uh, yeah, I am.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Well, when kids feel seen and heard, it sort of stops the climb. Because then it gives you the opportunity to pause long enough to go, and I wonder that's great. Is this about something else?

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Right. So and there's a connection there too. That that's you know, that's that little connection, isn't it? Rather than just saying, have it, because I've cut it. You've you've used that little bridge.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah. So it's going to make a huge difference in terms of having our kids feel seen and heard. Yeah. It's going to help them in the moment. I walked out a second later, he was eating the toasty.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Oh, see. Well done, Daddy O. Um so the other thing, like again, uh you sort of really well talk about it, is like the whys that some kids um so some kids are more easily going to that anger and and hitting. And not to be sort of frightened of that. So it's understanding your child, obviously, but like when things might happen, like times have changed, school and stuff like that. Is that again just getting back to that word, I wonder?

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah. Well, I think often it's actually our so we know that little boys are actually bigger hearted than little girls. Um at birth, they're bigger hearted, they're softer, they're more sensitive, um, and they're more they absorb more of their environments. I didn't know that. Over time, that gets shut down in them because we teach them that they're not allowed to show any feelings. Boys hit and hurt more than girls do. Um and what we also know is that boys are bigger hearted, and yet their ability to make sense of their feelings and their speech and language is often that a little bit behind girls. So their ability to bring that to the prefrontal cortex and choose a more pro-social way of managing those emotions is going to be a little bit behind.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

So that's more of what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

So that's boys, but let's also just think of anyone that's highly sensitive, anyone that has a diagnosis, anyone that's going through a time of change. Yeah, all of those things are gonna make that kid more susceptible because as cortisol rises in the system, as that system is busier just coping, we lose our ability to articulate, we lose our ability to make a choice where we seek help or we do something different in the moment, and what's gonna happen is it's gonna come out physically. Yeah. So for a lot of kids, the way they communicate all their feelings at first is physically. Toddlers are gonna hit and throw and push, and that's what they do. And then as speech and language comes on, kids will learn to say harsh words, they'll say all kinds of unkind things like you're the worst mum ever. That's right. All kinds of things. Um, and again, they're learning, and we view that in the exact same way. If my kid calls me, uh if my kid says to me, You're the worst mum ever, I am not gonna respond to that. I'm gonna view that as there are times I'll step in. So if my child calls me, we've got a rule in our house, no name calling. Yeah. So I'm gonna say, I can't let you call your brother a name. That's what I was gonna say. But you're allowed to be mad. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Yeah, that's a real can you repeat that? Because because uh there's a whole thing in here in your book of things not to say, and it's oh I said that, oh I definitely I've definitely said all of them, probably quite recently. So can you just re-resay that sentence? So um, you know, I when just say it. When something happens and a child send it to another sibling, yeah, can you just re-say what you just said?

SPEAKER_01 21:30

I can't let you call your brother a name.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Because so let's take it back a step. In terms of boundaries, it's really important that you have four core rules in your house. Yes. Like family rules. Family rules. And this is what mine are and this is what I recommend for all parents. Go no hitting and hurting each other or the dog or animals, yes. Um, number two is no damage to our stuff. Yep. So respecting our world is really important. Yeah, yeah. Number three is That we don't call each other names. I think that's a really good one long term because name calling has been shown in the evidence to be really harmful for people, especially if parents don't intervene. And then the fourth one is if someone looks worried or upset or they're crying, we stop and we check if they're okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

That fourth one is really fantastic at building a sense of um particularly with boys, um, it becomes consent. Totally because we want them to be able to read non-verbal cues, redirect their behaviour and check in on someone. That's nice. But it also helps with 90% of your sibling fights because if there is someone that's looking worried and they're not liking the way that they're being teased or whatever, and they're showing that, then our job in this family is to stop and check on it. Yeah, totally. Now, anytime a kid is breaking one of those four core rules as a parent, I'm stepping in to help them. Yes. Other than that, I'm not stepping in for every my kids can squabble till the cows are like whatever. I'm not I'm not intervening.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Yeah, so you're letting a lot of things slide if they're not, yeah, let them fight it out, not fight it out, but um work it out.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

I'm gonna say, what a great opportunity to learn about conflict. I can't wait to see how you guys work this out. Great. If a core rule is being broken or getting close to and I hear things escalating and I can hear someone is about to hit, ideally, I'm stepping in and going, whoa, can't let you guys hit. Yep. I'm here, great, two good kids, having a hard time. Yeah, I want to hear what's happening for both of you. Um let's sort this out in a way that's fair. Okay. Again, there is no script for this, but it is about us as the the boundary is I won't let you. The boundary is number one, I think. The boundary is I won't let you do that.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

We don't hit in this house. Totally. Because actually we do.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah. Yes. Now they do break it. That's that's the thing, like they've hit and whatever. Is there a natural consequence? Do you have something where you they have had to reflect on it that they might have some time off an iPad, but that was their like as they get older that they they know that that could happen. So it was already on the family rule. So if you do get to that level and you haven't been able to contain it, that they have a natural consequence of like, okay, you have 30 minutes off your iPad.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

So 30 minutes off the iPad for hitting is not a natural consequence. That's a punishment. So no, I don't do that. What would you do? Um okay, great. Before you go, quick. What would you do quickly? Quickly. Um, okay, so really quickly, if a kid hits, the punishment is the hit. It never feels good to lose control and hit or hurt. Okay. It is a sign of dysregulation. I'm going to say we can't do that. Okay. I'm going to talk to you about it and then maybe reflect on a different way to manage it because the child never chooses to hit. Okay. A natural consequence that might involve the iPad would be if you sneak out of bed at night and get on the iPad, which you know is a rule, then we might have to put the iPad away for a bit. Sure. Because it's not safe for me to leave that around and give you that opportunity. So a natural consequence has to be related to the thing.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

That they've done.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

I gotcha.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

For it to be natural. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Thank you so much, Jen. And you have got another amazing book. So like I said, we'll put all the links in with your books because they're amazing. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

And the title for the new book is called Why Kids Need Boundaries. Oh my gosh. So it's my passion topic. I think it's the area parents need the most help with. And it comes out in August.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah. Yay. Well, thank you again for being today here today. And there were so many other things to talk about, but I really appreciate your time and everything will be in the show notes for people to find you.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Awesome. Thank you, Jen.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Thank you, Jen. So if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave me a rating and review. I love reading all of your messages. Just shoot me a DM over on Instagram. It is parentingcollective.au. I also offer a free 15 minute, no obligation, phone chat. If you'd like to book one, head over to my website, www.parentingcollective.com.au, and request one there. So try to remember to be kind to yourself and always know you're doing the best you can every day, no matter what your day is looking like. Until next time, much love.