Stop Chasing Grades. Instead Help Your Child Find Their Passion & Purpose

What if your child’s path to success has very little to do with getting straight A’s?

In this episode of the Parenting Collective Podcast, Donna Moala sits down with @Margot Machol Bisnow, author of Raising an Entrepreneur: How to Help Your Children Achieve Their Dreams, 99 Stories from Families Who Did, to explore what it really takes to raise confident, resilient and fulfilled children.

Margot spent years interviewing successful entrepreneurs and their families to uncover the common threads in how thriving entrepreneurs were raised. What she discovered may challenge the way many parents think about academic success, achievement and the future.

From encouraging curiosity and nurturing passions to allowing children to experience failure, Margot shares the parenting lessons she discovered across hundreds of stories.

In this conversation, Donna and Margot explore:

✨ Why grades aren’t the only measure of a child’s potential
✨ How to recognise and nurture your child’s natural passions
✨ Why children need space to discover what brings them joy
✨ How sports, music, creativity and other passions can build grit, resilience and confidence
✨ Why parents need to rethink their fear around failure
✨ The importance of believing in your child,  even when their path looks different from yours
✨ How to support children who don’t fit the traditional school system
✨ Why curiosity may be one of the most valuable qualities we can nurture
✨ How to give children greater independence while still being there to guide them

Margot’s message is simple but powerful: pay attention to your child. Instead of forcing them into a predetermined version of success, notice what they love, what they’re naturally drawn to and where they come alive.

💛 If you’ve ever worried that your child isn’t following the “right” path, this conversation is for you.

🎙️ Catch the full episode and discover how we can move beyond chasing grades and start helping our children discover their own passions, purpose and path.

Follow Margot Bisnow:

Website: https://raisinganentrepreneur.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/margotbisnow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/margot-machol-bisnow-a29550b5/

Buy the book - Raising an Entrepreneur - How to Help Your Children Achieve Their Dreams: https://www.amazon.com/Raising-Entrepreneur-Children-Achieve-Families/dp/1098377745/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1649777585&sr=8-5

I would appreciate it greatly if you could please LIKE and FOLLOW this podcast and if you are not following me over on instagram, head over there for all of my top tips and advice around sleep and parenting @parentingcollective.au.  I also offer a free 15 minute phone chat to run through all your questions CLICK here to book your FREE 15 minute chat

Much Love 💞

Donna Moala 
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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello, hello, and welcome to today's episode. Today I'm joined by the wonderful Margot Bisnow, all the way from America. I'm loving my international guests, like so exciting. She's the author of Raising an Entrepreneur and How to Help Your Child Achieve Their Dreams. What I love most about Margot's work is that it doesn't only just come from all her extensive research. It comes from actually being a mother herself. So Margot raised two boys who are now grown men and both have gone on to create extraordinary lives by following their own passions and doing very completely opposite things, taking risks and building something meaningful in their own very different ways and being supported by their parents. And through that journey, Margot firsthand saw what can happen when children are raised with parents who believe in them, parents who give them the room to explore what actually lights them up, who parents who support their drive without controlling the outcome and who keeps values, character, and strong morals at the heart of it all. So for more than 10 years, Margot has shared what she has learned from her family and from interviewing more than 70 successful entrepreneurs and their parents. And what stood out to her and to me is that this conversation is not really about raising a child who wants to start a business. It's about raising a child who knows who they are, who authentically they are, has the confidence to follow their own path, and has the resilience to keep going when life gets hard. So we talk about supporting our children's passions, why straight A's are actually not everything, and allowing our kids to win and lose. Confidence, adversity, mentors, compassion. And one of my favorite ideas is learning how to lead our children by following them. Isn't that interesting? So I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did. I absolutely loved it. Eric, I'd love your feedback and your comments, and can't wait to speak to you next week. Have a good week. Bye. Good morning, Margot, and welcome to the Parenting Collective podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Hi, Dan. I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Oh, I know. I'm thrilled. It's morning here, evening, afternoon in Utah, where you are. Yep. Where are you normally based? I didn't even ask that. I know you're in Utah at the moment. Normally Washington, D.C. Oh, yeah, Washington, D.C., fantastic. So to start off, what I do love to ask my VIP guest to tell me a little or tell us a little bit about yourself and about your sort of passion outside of being an author and a little bit about your own life and what inspired you to create this incredible book. Wow, that's a lot. In summary, I know there's so many things, there's so many wonderful things, amazing things that you've done. But I suppose really focusing on, yeah, probably with your children, I would say, or you about being inspired about the book. But yeah, a little bit about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 2:29

Yeah, so I've spent my career mostly in international development, which has nothing to do with what I'm doing now. I have two phenomenal children.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Tell us a little about them.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

My younger son, Austin, is a musician, has always been a musician, fell in love with music and songwriting when he was about 12, wrote 300 songs before he graduated from high school.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:52

And has a band, a big band called Magic Giant. And then he and his wife started a folk duo called Somewhere in Between. Oh, wow. It's fabulous. And they're on Spotify, and everybody should listen.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Oh, I will. I have looked and I've listened, and I and he looks spectacular and he sounds spectacular, and his wife.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

My older son, Elliot, was a fanatical tennis player. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 3:14

Couldn't be any more opposite, really, can I?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Was when he was growing up, and I didn't think anything about it, but so both of them had these passions outside of school when they were growing up. And it turned out that every entrepreneur I've spoken to had a passion outside of school when they were growing up. But more of that later. So Elliot started an organization called Summit, which is conferences of young entrepreneurs. And I'd go to these events and I'd never met anybody like these people. And I'd say, I'm so curious, how did you turn out the way you did? So willing to work so hard for your goal and take on so much risk. And they all said the same thing to me, Donna. They all said, I had someone who believed in me. Someone who told me I could do anything I put my mind to. Usually that person was a family member, not always. Most usually that person was their mom.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Not always, but usually. And I was so struck by this, and I kept talking about it. And the kid said, You have to write a book. And I'm like, I can't write a book. And they're like, No, you have to write a book.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

And you did. And I wrote a book.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

Oh, yeah, it's an amazing book. And there was beautiful things to talk about in that book and why I wanted to get you on, because it's so much, you know, gels into everything that I talk about with the conscious parenting and not being authoritarian in regards to helicopter, and you've got to get the grades and I've got to be a certain way because this is what the parents feel and think. That's not your view at all. And I really loved that because you don't parent thinking I want to have a child that's an entrepreneur. Like I said, maybe some parents do, but it is really, I feel anything with parenting is about modelling and you know having a beautiful environment, like you said, someone who really believes in them. When I was reading all of your amazing stuff, I did read that. I think you were saying it wasn't a percentage, but you know, all of them had one person who really believed in them, really like an unconditional belief. And we talk about this all the time because we love our children, but if we really crunch down into when they're teenagers and they might not be aspiring to what you think is society's idea of a functioning teenager, then your love may become a little bit conditional, you know, and that's a little bit of a tough line there sometimes when our kiddos are being independent or doing things that we don't quite like, but a little bit off track there. But in regards to parenting children, that you would love to be able to nurture them to be able to be their best versions of themselves. Yeah, what would something that people need to look at within themselves as parents?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

So I want to go back to what you said, Donna. I mean, I think so many parents think that what worked when they were growing up is what's going to work today. And so they're kind of forcing their kids to do these things that they think will work for them and make them successful. They're saying you have to get, you know, good grades in all of your classes so you can get into the right college, so you can get the right degree, so you can get the right job. And that may work for some kids. You, you know, you might have a kid who just wants to study science all the time and wants to be a doctor. But like you're saying, Donna, it might not work for a lot of other kids. And I think the most important thing I can say to parents is pay attention to your child. And if what you think isn't working, figure out what does. What gives them joy? What are they good at? What do they want to spend time at? What do they enjoy spending time at? And don't say things like, stop spending so much time playing tennis or swimming or writing music or acting or singing or dancing or cooking or building things or making things or whatever, and go study your trigonometry because they don't need trigonometry.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Oh, I love that. You are making my heart sing. And someone from such a, oh my goodness, again, a very beautiful, colourful, large life. Again, I we don't know much about politics. Or some people do, I shouldn't say that. But here in Australia, you know, we have a prime minister, we're all very different. But you did work within the White House, or what did I read? Yeah, please tell me a little bit about that. The reason I'm sort of flipping and flopping with that is because your your very full life, you know, has been incredible to watch in the short window that I had been looked at it. So you saying that from a mother like yourself, obviously a highly intelligent and educated woman, that your A grades are not the most important. Of course, you know, doing the best you can, but the joy, I love how you say joy. We have to have joy in our lives. And like you were saying, again, I've got the three kids, they're 21, 18, and 15. I could say, you know, there might be 10% of children in any of those classes that the kids were at that were really naturally studious, meaning they love to study and they love to read books. And that is beautiful and good on those kiddos that love that. But a lot of other children are highly intelligent, but don't want to sit down and study all the time. You know, they want to play the sports, they want to ride the horses, they want to do all that sort of stuff. And what I have seen over the years, not blame, shame, or guilt for parents, is the parents think it's the most important thing to study, study for hours, you know, from year seven. And I look back and I think, those poor kids, but I love hearing that from you is that you're, like I said, you're a very intellectual woman, and you're not saying just chase the grades.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

No, and I mean, my dad was a professor. I grew up in university towns. Everyone I knew at least had a college degree, most had advanced degrees. I have an MBA from Northwestern, my husband has a law degree from Harvard. Like, we're kind of academic people. It just didn't occur to us that our kids were going to be different. And but when you see your kid like working so hard and getting so much joy, like my younger son, like for him to study history was like for 20 minutes was torture, and then he'd sit down for five hours writing, you know, and parents have to pay attention to this. And so my my older son, two and a half years into college, called to tell me he was taking a semester off.

SPEAKER_03 9:34

He was like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

But and I, you know, it was like a big gulp. And um, you know, you know, and um the amazing thing is that a year and a half later, a month before he would have graduated, not having spent, you know, the last year and a half, you know, with classes he didn't wasn't interested in and wasn't spending hard at and stuff, a year and a half later, he cold called and invited 18 young entrepreneurs together together for a ski weekend in Utah. And it was the first time that young entrepreneurs under the age of 30 had ever gotten together. And it was people like Sam Altman from you know, ChatGPT, you know, AI, um, and Blake Mykowski from Tom Shoes, and they'd never met anybody like themselves before. And because they'd never met anybody like themselves before, they said, you have to do this again, and I want to bring five friends. Wow, and that's how some got started. And the point is, if I had listened to my instincts, and I you have to stay in school another year and a half, and then another year and a half would have passed, the moment would have passed and by, someone else would have done it. I know and it didn't realize this until I was writing the book, and it just hit me like a ton of bricks, like, oh my god, like he he was right.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

My instincts are wrong. And you know what our instincts come from, us parents, fear. It's all fear. We're so scared. Yeah, you know, and that's how we were raised. And for for me, a little bit of our backstory is the reason I got into conscious parenting is because you know, we were just traditionally parenting, you know, let's do as we you say, kiddos, you know, and by the time they got to teens, they were not going to do that. And then we had to go, okay. And so we changed the way we parented. Everyone around us was a bit like, oh, you know, really. But now on the other side, I'm like, absolutely, like, absolutely like our Eloise Aldus is very musical and arty. And we've always, you know, been very much open to all of that, but we really had to, it's not lower expectations, but lower our expectations of like trusting our children, trusting them that we have brought them up with morality. Not lower them, change them. Don't change them. Not lower them, change them. That's right. Exactly. That's exactly a good idea. Because lower sounds bad, doesn't it? Sounds a negative thing. But yes, change them and change our lens, change our parental lens of like what we think's right, what the past and the world now, the world 10 years ago, it's very different than when we grew up. And people really don't understand that you cannot parent in the same world that we grew up in, you know. And the other thing that I read years and years ago, I'm always reading, love to learn, is it was Einstein who said you can't make a fish climb a tree. And I was like, wow, yes. So it's like your son who's musical, you know. Again, our eldest is musical, and it just blows my mind, and it's a natural ability and art. And but it would be like, no, you can't do that. You've got to go study for maths, you know. So it's really yeah, changing the lens, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

It is. And you know, I didn't know this when my kids were growing up. It's just they so loved what they were doing, and they got joy from it. And I was just so happy to see them getting so much joy from something. And so, Elliot, my older son, he fell in love with tennis when he was about 13, and we don't play tennis. And it's interesting that, isn't it? You know, because usually they do whatever the parents love. Oh, so that was his thing. And by the way, we don't know anything about music, and so it's only when I was writing the book that I realized how great it was that our kids had passions in areas we knew nothing about, so we couldn't help them at all, and they had to figure it out for themselves. But he kept playing and he kept losing, and he'd say, I know what I did wrong, I'll beat them next time. And he fought his way to the 35 in the country.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

And he was honored at the tennis center where he trained, not for what he had done on the court, but what he'd done off the court. And he said, Everything I am today is because of tennis. I didn't really go, I didn't work hard. Tennis is where I learned grit and focused and determination and resilience and hard, you know, how to pivot and you know what happens when you fail, and all these things that have you become successful.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

And you know what's interesting is that those things that you just listed are so vital in our lives as just humans, you know. And often I think as parents, we feel like that we're the ones that have to give that to the children or demand it and demand this. But you know, what you're beautifully saying is I mean, not saying that you obviously were fantastic parents for your boys to thrive, but that for him to say that that was tennis.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

It was. And you know, it was amazing to me. Something like over 30% of the entrepreneurs I've interviewed, it was sports.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I mean, I can one after the other after the other. And only one person that I talked to became a professional athlete for a while, just for a short time.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

And it's not just that, is it? Yes, that it's that continuously.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

They all said the same thing. They all said, like, sports is where I learned, I didn't care about school. Sports is where I learned, you know, discipline and hard work and resilience and you know, everything that they I needed to become successful today. And so, I mean, it's just, I think that's the the key thing is that every one of these entrepreneurs that I've talked to had a passion outside of school. Because it was something they chose, they worked really hard at it because they were working really hard at it, they were getting good at it. They realized that as you know, when it wasn't working, they had to pivot. When they failed, they realized that, you know, that that's how they were growing and learning from their mistakes. And they gained confidence because they realized that when they worked hard, they could succeed. And it's not their parents got somebody to change a grade, you know, or they said it wasn't your fault. It was because they chose something they worked hard at and they learned all these skills that later on, when they I mean, only the artists are doing the same thing that was their passion in high school. None of the others are doing the same thing, you know, but it doesn't matter because they learned they learned those skills and what it takes to be successful in life.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Yeah. And the thing is for me, and my lived experience is you know, finding my passion. I found my in for my 42, I was, and I I if I couldn't, I love my sleep, but I say to people, I love what I do so much that if I didn't have to sleep, I wouldn't, because I'm always learning and helping and saving people from their sleep and their parenting. So why I say that is like, you know, having that passion and joy around something that you don't, of course, it's a lot of work. This is the other thing. People are like, oh, you're doing really well. I'm like, I have worked and work still a lot around my family, you know. Like I think people again these days, young people might think, oh my goodness, you do work two hours a day and earn millions. Doesn't work like that, does it? You've got to put the grit in, the hard work, still, everybody. It's the job.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

And every one of them said to me, I love what I do, so I feel like I'm never working, even though I work around the clock. That's it. And all of them said to me, I got where I got today because I work harder than anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

I I'm there, I'm there earlier, I work harder, I stay later. Yeah, I'm gonna outwork everybody. And it's never and it's a joy because I love what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

And totally, and the deep conversation that I want to keep coming back to for people that are hearing this, I don't think you can force your children to do. This is something naturally that happens. So I think again, the sort of conscious parenting, leading, so you sort of lead, you know, and you're following once the kids get to a certain age, you're following them. You're like, this is amazing, but you're not, unless they want some advice, you're not giving it kind of thing. I say to my kids all the time, if you can have a hold of conversation, an intelligent conversation, interesting conversation with someone, engage and work that little bit harder than you know, the person beside you, you can get anywhere. Anywhere. Don't you think? With some hard work. So asking a little bit about all the interviews for your book. I found that really interesting, and you you have touched on quite a few of them. So they were the young entrepreneurs that you ended up interviewing through Summit. You found them. Yeah, tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

I mean, I just I go to these events, I mean, I know hundreds and hundreds of them. I could have made the book, you know, three pages.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

But it's it's amazing that the same thread came through.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

What I decided to do. So, Elliot, when I decided to write the book, he said, Mom, don't just interview the billionaires.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Because first of all, it's all white then. Oh, true, yeah. Why wouldn't we? Second of all, that's not what anyone's gonna end up being. No, and that's what and that shouldn't be the goal. The goal is not to become a billionaire. If you want to make a lot of money, go to Wall Street or whatever you call it in Australia. Yes, yes. Right. So you you become an entrepreneur because you want to create something better, you want to make the world a better place, you want to create a better product or a better service, you want to do something differently. Um and and I just think that's so important.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Did you you didn't interview any of the parents?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

I did. Oh, you did? I started out I started out interviewing just the parents. Oh, yeah. And then I thought, and then I thought, you know, I wonder I'm gonna interview the entrepreneurs, the same ones who I've interviewed the parent, and see if I'm having the same story about how they were raised. And then I discovered that um I did get the same story, but it was actually kind of more interesting because the parents were a little careful.

unknown 19:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Then I just started interviewing the entrepreneurs about how they were raised.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Awesome. Yeah, that's a really that's fantastic. Uh really.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

He said, Mom, don't just interview you know the billionaires. And so I decided to interview a very broad, you know, spectrum of people. So half men, half women, every race, every religion, every socioeconomic background, yeah, small families, big families, born overseas, born here, small towns, big cities, going into for-profit, nonprofit artists, activists. I even have one Australian.

SPEAKER_03 19:56

Oh, and who's the Australian? Can you remember?

SPEAKER_00 19:59

And you moon, who's a filmmaker?

SPEAKER_03 20:02

Oh, wow. Well, that would how long did it take for the interview and creation of the book?

SPEAKER_00 20:07

I don't know, a couple of years.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah. It must have been. What did you do after what did you do with your time after that? Like that must have consumed your thoughts and not wanting to sleep with the passion around that.

SPEAKER_00 20:19

No, it was just fascinating. And I had no idea what I'd find. And so I'd ask them how they were raised, and you know, and I'd sort of write it down and sort of write the main point that they were making. Yes, I was raised to be compassionate, or yes, I was raised, you know, I had a mentor, or you know, yes, my parents didn't care about grades, or whatever it was. And I sort of wrote down these different things. And then I realized that despite the fact they came from these vastly different backgrounds, they were all basically raised the same.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Which I'm just was like blown away. And then I was so excited about it. So I started writing. And then actually I did the first book, and then like five years later, I realized like they were all doing something different. And so I just decided to redo it. And so this is the this one is the second edition.

SPEAKER_03 21:06

Oh, fantastic. You might do a third or fourth, and the world's ever evolving too, isn't it? So it's like I it'll be interesting if you do do three or four, is that if it's still always that the core blueprint of a family, what you have found sort of all links, which again, I know this is going to be not hard, but uh, what would be the core two or three things if a parent was listening that they need to either surrender to a little bit, like change the lens or remove even with their parenting? Are there things that pop to your head, pop into your mind? Like like one of them being don't you know don't be forcing them to get A grades or you know, I don't know how you would word that, but yeah, is there anything that pops into your head?

SPEAKER_00 21:51

Let me say first some of the positive things. Like I think all of these parents raise their kids to be curious.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Okay and

SPEAKER_00 22:00

And to say, does it have to be like this? Could I do it differently? Could I improve it? Could I make a difference? Could I do something in a different way? And I think this attitude of sort of looking at everything, not accepting it the way it is, is a really, it doesn't matter what you do in life. Maybe you won't become an entrepreneur, but it's a really great way to raise a kid. And all of these people were raised to be curious because they all got to know something and then they thought, you know, I there's I could do this part of it better. I could make some money with that. We all want to do that. That's how they start their their companies. I mean, I think another way that these parents were all different from a lot of parents is their attitude toward failure. Yeah. How would you explain that? So kind of more traditional parents think failure is awful.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

And when their child fails, they scold them. Or even worse, they say, Oh, it wasn't your fault. I think that is worse, actually. And these parents all said, okay, it didn't work out this time. What did you learn?

unknown 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

What would you do differently?

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

How would you change it going forward? And so they they told their kids, failure is how you learn and grow. Oh, totally. And nobody becomes an entrepreneur who gets it right the first time.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Oh no. And it's ever evolving. I mean, I mean, I'll ever evolving. Ever evolving. Like, you know, I could be labeled as an entrepreneur, but I'm not a billionaire or a millionaire even. But you know, it's the same treadmill, it's the same work, work, work, learning, learning, learning, pivoting, you know, like I love it. And but you can't ever rest, I don't think. I mean, maybe you do when you get to a certain summit. I don't know. Maybe is there a summit? Is it forever? There is no summit. It's just we just continue to grow and climb that mountain. I don't know. But it is that curiosity. I love that word too. I think that's my whole life from the way that I work and what I've created in my business is that curiosity and also wanting to help people from a really good heart, wanting to help, wanting to do better.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Right? They were all raised to be compassionate. Yeah. None of them, as I said before, none of them said, Oh, I'm gonna do this because I want to make money. Yeah. They also interested. I'm gonna do this because I can do this better and make a better product. I can make a better service. I can make it easier for them to do this. I can make clothes that fit better. I can make, you know, detergent that's softer on your skin. I mean, whatever it is, I can make better. I think they all were raised to understand that they were put on earth for a purpose. And I know, isn't that awesome? It's all about them.

SPEAKER_03 24:43

Fantastic. I don't know if this was even part of your questioning, but I'm just going to ask this anyway. In the world that we live in now, and and and obviously these entrepreneurs are a little bit older, but I don't know if you've seen it a little bit more when we talk about the higher levels of anxiety and neurodiversity and things like that. We talk about that a lot here in Australia. Was that ever touched on with any of the people they interviewed in regards to sometimes of life being a bit tough? Or I know we talk about resilience and grit, but was anything that sort of popped up around that that they might have still had some tough experiences in, in regards to, you know, yes, it sounds all amazing and definitely a direction people should consider when they're parenting.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Yeah, was there anything like that that I mean a lot of these kids had very unhappy times growing up, you know, they were bullied, they were laughed at, they didn't fit in. And, you know, parents had to figure out what to do. A lot of them ended up changing schools. They were in big schools that didn't work, and their parents moved them to a small school, small schools that didn't work, and their parents moved them to a big school, they ended up homeschooling, they ended up going overseas to study. I mean, it's not there's not one answer. You have to look at your kid and say what's working. And if it's working, you have to figure out a way to stop sending them to like say, you know, I I you I don't know if you got this in Australia. We had this thing a few years ago called the college admissions scandal, where these parents were paying a lot of money.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Oh, we don't have that here, but we saw it.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yeah. Yeah, to to have somebody take their kids um SATs and stuff to, you know, and and and fake the college application. And all the articles were saying, Oh, these rich kids, you know, they have it so lucky. And I was thinking, oh no, these poor kids, what their parents were saying was if you can't get into this school, you can't be a success in life. And if the school knew the real you, they wouldn't want you. So we have to find a way to pretend that you're somebody other than what you are, because otherwise you can't succeed. I can't think of a worse message for a child. Instead of you're different, this school doesn't get it. We're gonna find a place that appreciates who you are because you have a lot of talent and you're amazing.

SPEAKER_03 27:05

Again, full stop, mic drop, as we say. Mic drop. But that's exactly right. So, again, a lived experience, like our eldest Eloise. She we've done lots of interviews and things for the journey that we've had together with her mental health and her being different and unique and spectacular, but she did not fit in particularly in the mainstream school. She did, and if you saw her, you wouldn't think so. But what it comes back to, Margot, is exactly what you're saying is like pause. If it's not working for your child, and your child is beyond just being a teen, a little bit grumpy, you have to reflect on what's going on, like changing schools, expectations, all of those things, changing the parental lens and looking at what they're good at and not having to put them in the you know, round hole, you know, square pig in the peg in the round hole. It really comes back to that, doesn't it? And really, really unconditionally loving them through them possibly being different in a great way.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Absolutely. And I mean, I have so many examples of this in the book. I mean, there's this one kid, his parents got a call from the teacher saying, you know, he just can't seem to sit still. And his mom said, Well, how about if you let him sit in the last row of the class? And then if he has to stand up, he won't bother people.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Yeah. I know. I know. And the thing is, again, I've talked about this a lot, but now I'm having my first conversation with you. Is this again, I've had a very lived experience to be able to now then sort of support family because I've had lived pretty traumatic experiences in regards to parenting, and then I've things have worked. I'm like, right, I need to study that to be able to support other families. But this is the thing is this neurodiversity and the big conversation that's had over here all the time. You know, when Eloise, she's 21, so when she was 12, she was always a little bit different, always had to stand and things like that. I thought ADHD was hyperactive, and then, you know, years ago, a teacher went, uh, you know, she might be. And then, wow, you know, of course I've got it. I've had it my whole life, you know, and and that's okay, but they just they are not, they're a square pig that's not going to fit into the round hole of traditional schooling. But it's like they're brilliant brains, like brilliant. So, how can we not, like you said, like we say, pause, surrender to what's going on, and then reflect on where that child's going to blossom and bloom and be their authentic selves.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

Absolutely. And you, as I said, and as you've discovered, Donna, I mean, you have to look at your child. You have to see what works. And if it's not working, don't beat your kid over the head. Figure out what will work. I know and work, come up with a solution with your child to find a system that works. One of the people in my book, Benny Blanco, who's one of our country's top song producers, he has something like 25 number one hits and tons of Grammys. And he just married Selena Gomez, so he got a lot of name dropped.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yeah, oh my gosh, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

We know who his mom got a call every day, every week when he was in kindergarten complaining that Benny wouldn't sit in the circle.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

And she would say so. And, you know, he said all his teachers found him incredibly annoying. Yeah. He loved music. His mom found him a music teacher outside of school who said he was the most talented kid he'd ever worked with. And starting in high school, he lived in the DC area. His mom let him take the bus to New York on weekends to work with music producers. I mean, she let him fly. You know, and today he's like, you know, unbelievably yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

And this is totally. And the thing is, what I've also realized or noticed with my own journey, but also working with so many parents and families around parenting, is that I thought we were pretty easygoing in regards to letting our children do what's authentic with themselves. But what's happened with too much information and the fear, us parents, do you can you imagine a parent these days allowing that to happen? They just wouldn't do it. Our kids aren't even allowed to play in the park across the road. I mean, my kids are, and it's not the parents' fault. The world's actually probably safer than it was when we were growing up. And these parents are so much more fearful of the what-ifs and whatever, but these kids can be like blazer tagged exactly where they're they are, and they're not allowing them to explore the world. They're just not.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Yeah, I I heard something on NPR, our radio station, a while back, and they said child abductions by strangers today, compared to the 1950s, is way down. And fear of child abductions by strangers compared to the 1950s is way up.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

What is going on? Exactly. And this is what I try and say to everybody. I feel like we just need to, oh, look, that's what I'm trying to do, one family at a time, is like bring it back to your basics. Let them be free and wild. And if they're, you know, getting back to just being human. That's what it comes back to, is like taking everything away and just letting your kids be children and letting them explore the world. Because the world is a spectacular place. And like I said, it's way safer than what it was when we were growing up. I was growing up, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

But that was one of the most challenging things to me about raising kids was figuring out how to give them more and more independence in kind of a safe way.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Yes. Yeah. Letting them so the the way that um I don't know where I heard this, it wasn't from myself, but it was in regards to parenting your child. Is it up to about eight or nine? We lead. We lead with a parent. We can, you know, guide and come do this and play this sport if you want to, and and that little ducks, they'll probably follow along. You know, between eight to twelve, you start to walk beside them. So it's more like a mentor. You've done all of that sort of blueprint of parenting, you're walking beside them, you're hearing them, you're having the open conversations. Then when they start getting into preteen teens, you've got to kind of walk behind them and allow them to, you're still there, you're still the boundary, you've still got the morals, but you've got to start letting go. And people just are shocked that it's that early, you know, like 13, 14, 15, 60, they still need you. We still need to parent, but you've got to let go of the reins a little bit. And people are very uncomfortable with that.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Yeah, but you have to, as I say, both of our kids discovered their passion when they were about 13.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:25

And they were both, it was both like kind of crazy, almost like weird happenstance. I mean, my younger son, we'd signed him up for a summer sports camp and he broke his leg like the first week. So I was looking for something for him to do, and everything was booked, obviously, because it's June.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And the beginning of summer, and I found this one thing that was like writing music on the computer. I'm like, you're going to this. And by the end of the camp, he was like, that was it, you know.

SPEAKER_03 33:54

And if you didn't have the talent though, and this is why I believe everything aligns, and I'm very much all of that. But you know, that was meant to happen as as extreme as that was that he broke his leg, that had to happen. But if you had put him in that and he didn't like it, it wouldn't have been his journey, you know. But he would have done something else. Yeah, it was his passion.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

So they can think about his passion. It never occurred to me.

SPEAKER_03 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

It became a passion. I just thought it was a way to spend the summer.

SPEAKER_03 34:22

Yeah, keep them busy. That's what I say to everybody. You don't need to keep them busy that they are exhausted and you're taking up all their time, but keep them busy enough. And for us, it was sports. Our children, right up to year 12, our girls had to play a sport, and they're like by 18. But you know, it was a really good, it's just fantastic. And you don't have to have anything as a family, but I think you structure and a little bit of this and a little bit of guidance, like you said, 13, you're going on a camp, didn't do nothing, and then ended up being his passion. Look, I could talk to you all day, Margot. Thank you so much. But I want to ask a question, and you have already sort of delved into some of the people that were in your book, but do you remember like a particular family or a story of one of the entrepreneurs that stayed with you the most out of all of these years? I mean, they all sound pretty spectacular. The guy that's married Selena Gomez is probably up there. But what one sort of really gives you those goosebumps, like, wow, that was quite exceptional. Is there one that stands up out in particular?

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Oh, there's many that I just adore. But um I think one that that really resonates with people when I tell them about it is John Chu, who directed Wicked.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

And before that, he Crazy Rich Asians. And now he's doing it.

SPEAKER_02 35:34

Wow, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yeah. So his parents were immigrants. They settled in Palo Alto. They have a restaurant chef Chews. They expected their kids to, you know, become professionals. And he discovered making movies when he was in fourth grade. And it was like his passion, and he was like always trying to do it in his free time. And I think he was in ninth grade. His mom came into his room at night and he was supposed to be asleep, and he was, you know, doing a movie on his computer. And she said, Stop that nonsense and stop wasting your time. You need to get some sleep, you know, so you're prepared for school tomorrow. And he burst into tears and he said, You can't make me stop. It's what I love, it's what I want to do for my whole life. And she said, Go to sleep, we'll talk about it tomorrow. And she picked him up at school the next day and she'd been to the library and she had 10 filmmaking books. And she said, if you want to do it, be the best.

SPEAKER_03 36:25

Wow. That another mop drop. That's amazing. Absolutely. And that's what I say to my children as well. And I do say to everybody, whatever you choose, just do your best at it, the absolute best.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

And just to know, he said, just to know that his parents were so supportive at that point, you know, from that point on when they realized how much it meant to him.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Oh, totally. And it would have been hard with again the conditioning for you know immigrant parents and how hard they would have had to work and all the challenges and to turn around within that day and do that. What a beautiful mum.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Amazing. Thank you so much. I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. And obviously, everything will be in the show notes on how everyone can purchase your amazing book. Yes, there it is. What's it called again?

SPEAKER_00 37:06

Onto how to raising an entrepreneur, how to help your children achieve their dreams. 99 stories from families who did.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

So make sure it's the second edition. It's on Amazon, and there's links to it on my website, which is raising an entrepreneur.com. And I just want to tell your listeners, it's 102 to four page stories.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

So it's super easy. It's not sort of, oh God, you know, it's another 40-page chapter.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

It's more about parenting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

And the yeah. Each story just starts with two pictures, one of them when they were young and one of them today. So, you know, just Oh, I love it. And so it's super easy to read and super fun.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

And I love stories. I will I will certainly be purchasing that because extremely inspirational for sure. Thanks, Donna. Thank you so much. Have a lovely day or lovely evening. We'll catch up for you soon. Speak to you soon. Thank you so much. This was great. Thank you. So if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave me a rating and review. I love reading all of your messages. Just shoot me a DM over on Instagram. It is parentingcollective.au. I also offer a free 15 minute, no obligation, phone chat. If you'd like to book one, head over to my website, www.parentingcollective.com.au and request one there. So try to remember to be kind to yourself and always know you're doing the best you can every day, no matter what your day is looking like. Until next time, much love.