EPISODE 169
Melissa: To, uh, take the sabbatical, what, what you did on your sabbatical, um, all of that and what you learned from this experience. So I'm excited. I can't wait. This is the best topic. I'll
Melissa: ask you a lot of questions. I'll have you introduce yourself to begin with and then, um, and talk about your background as however you want to describe it.
Melissa: Um, but obviously the listeners are, are all independent consultants. So kind of, you're one of them sort of positioning, um, one of us, I should say. And then, um, and then, uh, At the end, I will record a little bit of an intro with RJ of like, oh, this meet Ashley. I'm so excited for you to hear whatever, you know, a few things that kind of, uh, introduc introduce the, um, episode.
Melissa: So that's how it will end up flowing at the end. All right. Do what? Oh, okay. Was I hitting it too?
Melissa: Okay, we don't need karate noises. That's good. Okay. Is that better? Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Melissa: All right, [00:00:00] I'm excited to get started today. I have a guest. On, which is a rare occurrence and I'm but I, Ashley and I know each other from an organization called Open Assembly and from that organization, we were chatting and she was talking to me about a sabbatical that she took as an independent consultant.
Melissa: And I just. Thought, how exciting, what, what a concept so many of us that thought never really crosses our mind. And so I'm so excited to welcome Ashley Ryall to the episode today. She's going to share with us her experience taking a sabbatical and so many other things as an independent consultant. So Ashley, thank you for joining us.
Melissa: If you would love to introduce yourself, tell the, tell the audience about you and your background and all the things.
Ashley: Awesome, 
Ashley: Melisa Thank you for having me. This is a conversation that 
Ashley: is long overdue between us and with your listeners. I'm Ashley Ryle, founder and principal [00:01:00] of Untapped Social. We are a thought leadership consulting firm. I help leaders improve their executive presence and get them on stages and give them platforms for them to be seen and heard.
Ashley: I have been an independent consultant for eight years. My career. The last 15 years, my career has been anchored in, like, kind of at the intersection of professional branding and content marketing. I'm also a speaker and an accountability coach for people who want to live and work with more intention and want help designing their work around their life and not the other way around, which is very serendipitous for our conversation today.
Melissa: It's 
Melissa: so perfect. You're an expert in this and you partially because you've lived it yourself. Yeah. So good. All right. Well, let's, let's dive in. I'm sure this conversation will take us in a lot of different directions, but let's start off with the sabbatical and then see where we go from there. So tell us a little bit about, you [00:02:00] said you've been an independent consultant for eight years.
Melissa: At what point did you decide you wanted to take a sabbatical?
Ashley: Yeah, so I'm here to tell you that the seven year itch is not just for romantic relationships. It's also for 
Ashley: Relationships with your business. And I'm here to tell you that that is alive and well. So about seven years in, Melisa I had burnt out three times in a year and a half working for myself. And I was feeling really uninspired and not really as fulfilled as I with my client work like I had felt in the last seven years.
Ashley: And I wasn't learning anything new. I didn't feel like I was really being challenged. I felt like I had sort of plateaued. By the way, all great signs that it might be time to look critically at how your work is supporting your life. And so, at the same time, I, am a big dreamer. A lot of independent consultants are, if you've decided this [00:03:00] work style by choice or by happenstance.
Ashley: And I've always had big dreams for my life at the top of my bucket list for the last 10 years has been to walk the Camino de Santiago in northern Spain. So I figured while feeling a little bit lost in my business, what a great time to go achieve a lifelong dream, right? And so that's kind of how this idea formed that maybe it's time to take a break and get out of the hustle and bustle of my business.
Ashley: And I realized I needed a break from all of this and to step away for more than just a two week vacation.
Melissa: Yeah. 
Melissa: And well, let's come back to the burnout here in a little bit, if you're willing to share with us some of the contributing factors and what you learned from that, because I think that's also a topic that's, um, that impacts so many of us, but let's keep, let's keep going with the, with the sabbatical.
Melissa: So amazing, this vision that you created. And so tell us a little [00:04:00] bit about how did you, how did you think about preparing as a, as an independent consultant who you're, the revenue is all driven by you. How do you, How do you start preparing for a sabbatical as an independent?
Ashley: Yeah, 
Ashley: great question. There's so much that goes into this. Um, I would say, you know, after I had made the decision to, to do this for myself, and I'll, I'll come back to that in a second. There were two things that I did next. 
Ashley: There are two, there were, you know, the next right step at that point was to get clear about two things.
Ashley: Number one, what was the experience that I wanted to give myself on on the sabbatical? And number two, what was the experience I wanted to give my clients while I was away? There's more than one way, there's more than one right way to take a sabbatical as an independent consultant. So, I think it's really important to get clear on what is the type of experience I want to have on sabbatical.
Ashley: What do I need this experience to be? What is it going to look like? How [00:05:00] long is it going to be? When can I take this for my, for my business? Or if you know, you're, you're going on a work trip. or sorry. Um, if you're traveling, you know, it's good. It's good to get clear about when the best time is to go. Or when is the right time to go for my business where I can take a pause?
Ashley: Um, and. Sort of, I asked myself those questions, like, what does this experience need to look like for me? Especially, like, we put so much time and effort into taking a sabbatical. There's just so much, so many extra layers that an independent consultant needs to to go through in order to do this. You might as well do it right the first time. 
Ashley: you're going to be away. So, we're getting clear on those two things, um, and then declaring it. And I, I, I know it sounds risky, but I started telling my friends and family, I'm taking a sabbatical in September of 2022. And that was in 2021. I gave myself a lot of time, which I highly recommend. And I put a post it note on my bathroom [00:06:00] mirror just to remind myself why this was important.
Ashley: And then I got to planning and sort of asking myself, what? What, what, what needs to happen so that I can take sabbatical in a way that I am comfortable and confident stepping away from my business for X, Y, Z number of days or weeks or months. Um, for me, you know, thinking about like how to set up my, my business for success, I, as a solopreneur at the time, Alyssa, I didn't have part time or full time staff.
Ashley: already working for me. I've set up On Top Social to be a container for freelancers to work on projects that they're passionate about. So I would Handpicked freelancers based on their skill sets and expertise for certain client projects, but I didn't have someone that would hold down the fort for me. And I realized for me to take sabbatical, for me to feel comfortable and confident taking sabbatical, [00:07:00] I would want someone to hold down the fort.
Ashley: Of untapped social while I was gone, but I didn't have that person in house yet. And so for me, the best decision was to go out and find someone like me who was available and had the level of expertise to be there to support my clients while I was away, but it doesn't have to be that way. You could decide a different path where you put your business on pause.
Ashley: Um, you hire a freelancer, you design your contracts in a way that you can step away for your, from your business for five weeks or two months or what have you. And we can talk about, I've got some ideas about how to design those contracts, but it, it, it, um, yeah, it, it takes, it takes a lot of planning, obviously.
Ashley: And the more planning, like the more time you give yourself to plan, the better this is going to go.
Ashley: Yeah. 
Melissa: Yeah. 
Melissa: Okay. And why did you choose that path to bring someone on who would take on some of the level of responsibility that you typically are responsible, you know, that you typically [00:08:00] own?
Ashley: Yeah, so my average client contract is anywhere from 
Ashley: nine to 13 months. And so I already had existing client contracts in place that were going to overlap with the time that I want it to be away for. And I didn't feel comfortable putting those contracts on pause based on the deliverables that we set out to achieve for our clients.
Ashley: And that's why I wanted someone who was You know, a thought leadership expert who knew the industry that on top Social lives and breathes them and could support my clients and be a thought partner and move deliverables along while I was gone. Um, but there are other options too, but that, that worked best for me in my business.
Melissa: Okay. And you mentioned some other options being bringing in freelancers. So maybe what would that have looked like if you decided to go down that path, Ashley?
Ashley: Yeah, I think it's, that comes back to project management, right? Depending on the client work that you [00:09:00] have available, how can you sort of orchestrate a team of freelancers who 
Ashley: possess complimentary skill sets based on the client deliverables and the client goals, and how can you get them ready? to work with you? offload that work onto them, um, in advance so that they are picking up the pieces and they can keep things moving swimmingly.
Ashley: Um, like I said, Untopped Social was built to be a container for freelancers to work on those projects, but there's wonderful, as you know, open talent platforms available where you can go and vet and hire those freelancers at your disposal.
Melissa: And then the other option would be just to time your contracts, I guess, to take a pause entirely.
Ashley: Exactly. So, I thought about that. I gave myself a good 10 months when I, but from the time that I decided to take a sabbatical and to the time that I was actually going away. Um, 
Ashley: so again, the more time [00:10:00] you give yourself, the more freedom and flexibility you have to design the sabbatical to work for you, and so that your clients feel like they're taken care of.
Ashley: So, 
Ashley: that could mean a couple of things. It could mean that you design New client contracts around the sabbatical, so that you're wrapping up projects three weeks before you leave, or that you do the bulk of the work, like 80 85 percent of the work you deliver before you leave for sabbatical, and then the remaining 20 percent or what have you, you can wrap up when you get back.
Ashley: Um, I told my clients well in advance, about eight months in advance that I was doing this, right? And I think this is key here, Melisa because clients can react any which way. Oh my gosh, what do you mean you're going to be gone for two months? Like that doesn't work for us, right? And so I think what's important to note here is to set the expectation with your clients about when you're going to be gone, how long you're going to be gone for, all the logistics when you will or [00:11:00] won't be available.
Ashley: Some Folks might decide to work a little bit during sabbatical. I chose not to. I wanted to fully immerse myself in the experience, so I chose not to bring my laptop. but. I think it just comes back to setting the expectation with your client so that they know that they are taken care of while you're away, however that's meant to look.
Ashley: And, I think what's also important too is to share with them why this is important that you go on sabbatical and how they will benefit from you going on, 
Ashley: sabbatical, right? For me, it was about burnout and trying to find new ways, new creative ways to leverage. um, untapped skill sets of mine that I had been under utilizing and I needed that time away.
Ashley: And getting clear on that will help me service them better, right? So I think getting their buy in about, like, why this is beneficial to them, as well as why it's so important for you, is super important to [00:12:00] to communicate that message.
Melissa: What 
Melissa: the irony, the untapped skill set that you had that you wanted to kind of unlock while you were on sabbatical in the name of your company, Untapped Social, all fitting so well together. It's very, more indecoratist the way that name has stuck and all of the Different, different reasons why I chose that name in the first place. So good. Tell us a little bit about, you mentioned you have some ideas about contracts. 
Melissa: So is it contracts on the client side or with the consultants and other freelancers you were bringing in or both? Tell us a little bit more about that.
Ashley: Yeah, 
Ashley: so, um, I was mainly talking about clients, but I'll share with you sort of how that. Went for me because I ended up hiring someone to hold down the fort for me during those months. but I think coming back to contracts, you know, I put a disclaimer in my new contracts and an addendum for existing client contracts again, about [00:13:00] how long I'd be gone, what they could expect while I was gone, um, times I would be available, et cetera.
Ashley: So I think it just comes back to those expectations. And. I think it's worth mentioning too, like your listeners, they're independent consultants, either by choice, by happenstance or by life circumstance. But either way, Melisa your listeners have developed skill sets in creative problem solving, innovation, entrepreneurship, thinking outside the box.
Ashley: And you do, your listeners have done that every day for their clients and for their business. There's ways that you, you can apply those skills for yourself. And so maybe it's worth look after you've decided to take a sabbatical, it's worth looking at your existing client contracts and figuring out maybe how, how can you adjust them or shift them so that maybe you're delivering a little bit more value upfront.
Ashley: Um, or you're meeting your, your [00:14:00] customers where they are, maybe they're on a different frequency or wavelength or timetable. And there's some adjustments that need to be made that actually work for you to be gone on sabbatical and to help support them in new or different ways that you hadn't thought of before.
Ashley: And so that's where that a little bit of ingenuity comes along to say, okay, how can we make this better? How can we adjust this contract so that it's serving you more? And so that I can take this time away that I need, 
Melissa: Yeah, I think it's such an important piece to think about because when we've talked about this on the podcast, on the, on many, many episodes in the, in the, on this podcast about asking yourself a really powerful question. Most of us ask ourselves the question, why wouldn't a sabbatical work for me? And that's not a question we want the answer to.
Melissa: I'm sure your brain can think of a thousand reasons why a sabbatical won't work for you. 
Ashley: right? 
Melissa: It's the opposite, right? You asked yourself the question, how could I make a sabbatical work for me and for my clients? [00:15:00] And then you went to work on solving that for yourself, for your clients. And, um, I'm excited here in a minute to hear about how some of a lot of those details, but it's really about.
Melissa: Thinking, like you said, applying the tools that you use for your clients, applying them to yourself and your business to ask, how can I make a sabbatical work in my business for both me and for the clients? Um, and so that it benefits both of us. It's not just taking away something from your clients to benefit you.
Melissa: It could be a benefit to both of you. I'm excited for you to tell us more about what those benefits are. 
Ashley: Yeah.
Ashley: Beautifully said. Beautifully said. 
Melissa: Okay. Amazing. So now let's talk about, so you planned out the sabbatical. It was, you know, a long time in the making, 10 months, I think you said, and then, um, and then tell us what happened next. So what was the sabbatical?
Melissa: What was it like as you started transitioning into the sabbatical? You had done so much planning for. 
Ashley: Yeah, sure. So, and, and to give you [00:16:00] some, your listeners some context, the Camino de Santiago is, 
Ashley: they call it a pilgrimage. It's historical in nature. Hundreds of thousands of hikers hike it every year. There's 13 different routes you can take. I'd, I'd seen it in podcast and thought this would be the perfect journey for me.
Ashley: And. Um, I'm, I'm a big dreamer. I'm kind of a go big or go home type person. So, naturally, I decided that I would do the most difficult route and the longest, um, and, and that means the French way. 
Ashley: The French way is 
Ashley: a 490 mile hike from France over the Pyrenees all the way west of Spain. So you're technically walking.
Ashley: Over the top of Spain from east to west all the way to the coast and. 
Ashley: And I think it's important to note here that. You know, again, I had, I had burnt out a lot. I needed I needed a change of scenery. I had put very [00:17:00] high expectations on this sabbatical and I think that's worth noting, right? Because. It's hard enough to go on sabbatical.
Ashley: Only 5 percent of companies allow a paid sabbatical. Only 11 percent allow for an unpaid sabbatical. It's even harder, if not impossible, for a freelancer or independent consultant to go on sabbatical. And so I had put these Huge expectations on the sabbatical to fix all my problems, right? Fix the burnout, maybe sleep under an olive tree, take things 
Ashley: at my own pace.
Ashley: My poor, poor Camino, right? Like it stood no chance against all that I had sort of had planned for it and for me and in my experience and I didn't get what I came for. And I think that's maybe a whole other conversation, but, you know, I had planned for this experience to be, [00:18:00] to sort of shut off my brain and use different parts of my brain and figure out what was next for me in my career.
Ashley: But as we know, our problems follow us wherever we go. And a record number of hikers hiked it that year, Melisa So. Typically, on average, across 13 different routes of the Camino, about 200, 000 hikers hike it every year, which is a lot already. But by 
Ashley: September of 2022, 365, 000 pilgrims had registered and had started on the trail.
Ashley: And so it was an incredibly stressful experience. 
Ashley: And it was kind of a race to get a bed. And there's, there's so many options to sleep on the trail, but it was just ridden with anxiety. And I couldn't go at the pace that I wanted to go. And I couldn't get the experience that I came for. And so at some point I had to figure out how to walk my [00:19:00] own Camino.
Ashley: And the implications and results of that are, uh, something that I'm, I'm still sharing with the world today. Because there's so many real world sort of applications to that lesson, but it's really important to note that it's, it's great to be intentional about what you want the sabbatical to be. And I fully believe that the more intentional you are about what your sabbatical will look like, the more positive experience you will have, but it's really important to be open to the outcome and be open to what that looks like. 
Melissa: So thank you for sharing that because I think the best laid plans, right? You, you were talking earlier about how important it is to make the intentions, not only to plan for it, but also what, what you want to accomplish on. The sabbatical, but also who knows what might happen and making the most out of it, regardless of what ends up happening.
Melissa: So tell us a little bit, if you're open to it, to Ashley, about
Melissa: how, how did, how did the [00:20:00] sabbatical benefit you? How did, how did it, even though it didn't come out, maybe the exact way you had envisioned it, tell us a little bit about what, what did you take away from it? 
Ashley: The sabbatical ended up starting a year and a half long journey of sort of me asking myself what's next for my business and my career. And I'm, I'm here to tell you, Melisa I'm not really on the other side yet, 
Melissa: Yeah. 
Ashley: it, the, you know, experience ignited the start of that. 
Ashley: And I started asking, you know, when I came back, I.
Ashley: Started to ask myself sort of, again, what, what additional ways can I be of service to the clients that I have and what new clients do I want to support? Uh, I came back from the Camino and decided to start writing a memoir. So that was a huge benefit that came out of my experience. I, I feel like I have a story to tell and.
Ashley: Learned a [00:21:00] few things along the way. I'm only 36, almost 37 years old, but I feel like I've got a lot more to give to the world and the Camino sort of catapulted whatever those answers might look like. And I've started to figure out some of those answers. Um, and I think the biggest thing is, and this is applicable to all of us as independent consultants again, is to be open to the outcome and, you know, have high expectations, but.
Ashley: For your business, for your life, for your career, for your clients, but be open to getting there differently. So kind of what I mean by that is, You know, it's a perfect analogy. I, I started off on the Camino. It's a 490 mile track across Spain. I ended up only completing 275 miles. Not only. that's more than half.
Ashley: I'm fine.
Melissa: Not only. No. 
Ashley: I'm totally fine with that. But halfway through the trip, Melisa [00:22:00] I did the math. In terms of how many miles I would have to walk a day in order to walk every single step and get home in time. And I had a revelation that I wouldn't be able to do that 
Ashley: based on the time I had left. And so I needed to figure out how I could get a positive sabbatical experience and get a, get what I wanted from this experience, but it would have to look differently. Um, and so I walked a certain number of miles. I got on a train and skipped a section. I spent an extra day at this beautiful albergue that overlooks the river. And I met some wonderful people, had some great conversations that never would have happened if I had tried to push it. And so I think one of the biggest lessons learned there is you can still achieve whatever goal you've set out.
Ashley: To achieve, but be open to it looking differently. 
Melissa: It's 
Melissa: such a great lesson for a [00:23:00] sabbatical and also just running a business in general. When we are so tightly wound to the way we think it should look, then we oftentimes, so often miss all these other, like, like the view of the river that you were, uh, You spend an extra day at, we, we miss the, the big picture and, and other alternative paths to get there.
Melissa: So
Ashley: It's so true. And the, you know, So many of those skillsets and mindsets we adopt anyway as independent consultants, because we do that for our businesses. We do that for our clients. It's, it's time to apply those skills to ourselves and what we want our life and our work to look like. 
Melissa: Yeah. Such great lessons here. Maybe now's a good time, Ashley, to ask you about if you're open to sharing the, what contributed to the burnout and then how did the sabbatical help you to, to, um, start to break that down? If it did, tell us a little bit if you're open to sharing. 
Ashley: Sure. So. 
Ashley: To kind of fast track, I, my [00:24:00] background is in social media and content marketing. At some point after I started my business, left corporate America, went out on my own. At some point, some larger clients asked, you know, Ashley, you do XYZ, can you do ABC as well? And I said, yes, and figured it out.
Ashley: Right. And so I kind of carved this niche in the future of work, sort of HR talent space, where I was helping leaders and pioneers in those industries get on stage, be heard, elevate their executive presence, and I did that very well. And I was really happy with how I had moved the industry forward by getting those folks and making the stage. And getting them in front of larger audiences. But at some point, I felt like I had sort of peaked in that, in that specific sector. And I felt like some folks were kind of saying similar things. I was really struggling to [00:25:00] find new and fresh perspectives. Which is alarming because the future of Workspace is super exciting.
Ashley: And it still is, as you know, we live and breathe that space and I love it. And we'll always be, you know, part of my heart, but I wasn't feeling fulfilled in, you know, once I deliver sort of a client project or, you know, whatever great outcomes I was producing, I, I didn't feel as fulfilled as I used to. And I. I was upset about that. I was like, wait, what's going on here? Like, I love this stuff, right? And I just wasn't getting that level of fulfillment that I am used to. And, again, I wasn't learning anything new. I sort of felt like I was staying in my lane too, too much in a way that wasn't productive. And a lot of us, A lot of your listeners, like we, some of us feed off that, right?
Ashley: Where we love being challenged. We love, you know, we love thinking about things in new ways. And [00:26:00] I just feel, I just felt like I wasn't in the right containers. I wasn't talking to the right people who could give me that. And there were also some other conversations and other things I was helping folks with that I don't typically do, or I wasn't being, I wasn't charging for, and I was really.
Ashley: I was really sparked by those things. And so, you know, my, whatever, if it's a passion project or a side hustle or a conversation you're having with a friend, if you're getting more jazzed up about those things than your work, then it's kind of time to like take stock and ask yourself and like, look critically about the value that you're bringing, bringing to your clients and the value that you're bringing to your work.
Ashley: And I was really feeling lost that. 
Ashley: What I loved and what I was doing weren't, weren't talking to each other, weren't, weren't aligned. And that, that did lead to burnout. 
Ashley: I think a lot of times we think of burnout, Melisa in a way that is linear [00:27:00] or, um, in a single fashion, right? That we're just hitting the pavement too hard for too long.
Ashley: And there's just no more energy or capacity left. But I want to remind your listeners that there's another type of burnout and that burnout is when your work isn't fulfilling anymore, it's not energizing you and that leads to burnout and the burnout I had, and I didn't really realize it till after I got back from the Camino. 
Melissa: Wow. 
Melissa: Yeah. And how did the experience on the Camino start to make that more apparent? And how did it start to unravel some of the burnout or lighten it or what was the impact on the burnout there? 
Ashley: Um, That's a great question. I don't, I don't know if the Camino necessarily unraveled or healed my burnout because it was stressful and I felt anxious on the trail that that wasn't doing any favors for my burnout. The, I think it was going [00:28:00] on the Camino and having the experience and what the Camino sort of ignited in me that So, I went on the Camino, had this experience.
Ashley: I came back and I said, I need to hire a business coach. Like, things aren't working out here. Right? He's the one that said, Ash, I want you to try the 20 minute nap for the next six weeks. And I I think that will help you sort of start to tackle your burnout because burnout is not a quick fix as we know, and it's taking me, it's taken me six to seven months to get back to a level that I'm comfortable with.
Ashley: By the way, the 20 minute nap can work for a lot of people, and it works for me. I've been doing it since October and it's fabulous.
Ashley: So again, Melisa I think it's not necessarily looking at the sabbatical itself to heal whatever it is that you need, although that can happen. [00:29:00] For me, the sabbatical was the jumping off point. 
Melissa: That's, I oftentimes ask my clients like, what is the job you're giving this thing you're doing? And that's such a good way, maybe a way to frame this of like, what is the job that you're giving the sabbatical? And based on what you've shared with us today, not maybe giving it a job. Maybe not a big job, too big of a job and also being open to it, doing a different job.
Melissa: So, so not being tied to the job you give it. 
Ashley: Well said, well said. And Yeah.
Ashley: give it some breathing room because I got so much out of the Camino, but it's none of what I expected. 
Melissa: Yeah, 
Ashley: I mean, I wanted to go nap under olive trees and speak a different language, which I, which I did a little bit. And I met people from all over the world, but there was also some really humbling nights where You know, I was rushing for a bed.
Ashley: I didn't have a reservation for a bed in advance. And I cried to my [00:30:00] friend during, like, while we're eating, you know, a snack when we got to, like, the next town. I was like, I don't, I don't know if I can continue on like this, right? So be open to the sabbatical giving you something that you need, not necessarily what you want, right?
Ashley: The 
Melissa: I love that. 
Ashley: famous song. 
Melissa: such a good way to say it. Yes. Tell us when you got back then. So what have you, what have you been, how did you re engage with your business? Did you plan to re engage in the way that it looked previously? And then you changed your mind on the sabbatical or did you leave it open ended?
Melissa: For when you got back, uh, how does that look? 
Ashley: Yeah, great question. In the planning process, I did give myself a financial buffer to, so that when I came back, I would have two to three months to kind of re ramp up to speed. And 
Ashley: my client contracts were still live until three months later. So that's just the way I designed it. But when I [00:31:00] got back, Things weren't, weren't the same.
Ashley: I finished up my client contracts as best I could. I ended up hiring my strategic advisor who filled in for me. She and I ended up working together under the untapped social umbrella for the next year because it was such a match, which was another added unexpected benefit from, from that experience. But when I came from back from sabbatical, you know, I, it took a little while to re engage, right?
Ashley: Because I was still struggling with what's my business going to look like next year? And that was the ultimate question I kept asking myself and tried to give myself some time when I came back from Spain to do that. And again, what came out of that January 1st, I started writing, getting words down on paper or on my computer for a book.
Ashley: Um, but the sabbatical again, I gave myself time and space to start asking myself those questions. And that's just what I needed. [00:32:00] There's listeners who are at different levels of their journey as an independent consultant. And if you have really been loving what you're doing, you know, taking a sabbatical for different reasons is just as helpful and you can come back and, and reinvigorate what that might look like.
Ashley: But for me, you know, I took all of 2023. To figure out what's next for untapped social and what's next for my career. And how do things need to look differently? So it's been, a long, long slow burn.
Melissa: But it's been, but, but you know, the gift you've given to yourself is so phenomenal in the sense of not, not giving yourself such pressure to come back and make it look a certain way, or to somehow, you know, so many of us put pressure on ourselves of, I should, I should get back to where I was within X amount of time, or, uh, Um, I, you know, I should make the most out of this or go back to corporate or whatever all these things are that we tell ourselves.
Melissa: And for you to have given yourself that space as, you [00:33:00] know, um, as part of your sabbatical plan, even it's about, sounds like it's a lot about planning ahead of time, giving yourself space. 
Melissa: You mentioned, I think at one point you took three weeks off, like a little bit of a break before the sabbatical, you kind of ramped things down.
Melissa: Um, I know when I went on maternity leave, which is not a sabbatical, um, but I guess one, in some senses, it might have a little bit of an, and that, and be analogous in some ways. I was still in corporate at the time, but I worked, I worked that day and then I went to the hospital that night and I was like, I'm winning.
Melissa: I, I worked till the very last, last minute. But in this case, you know, thinking about going on a sabbatical, not just wrapping up work on Friday and then coming back, you know, starting on Monday. So the buffer you gave yourself in the beginning, and then when you came back, seems like a really important part of this formula that you're sharing with us today too.
Ashley: Yeah. 
Ashley: that's beautifully said, Melisa I think it's so important because 
Ashley: Regardless if you have a [00:34:00] staycation for sabbatical or if you literally do nothing, I find it hard to believe that you're not going to come back from the experience different in some way, especially the more intentional you are about the experience you want to have beforehand.
Ashley: And so giving yourself space and time to re acclimate back in and And giving yourself sort of the open door to For things to look completely different, right? Because a sabbatical is not necessarily just to cure burnout. Like we do it for all different reasons. Sometimes we need access to our, the creative parts of our brain that have been just shut off for months.
Ashley: Right. And so you might come back and say, Oh my God, I have like nine different ideas for my, or I want to start a completely new, different, like a new business. Right. And so if we don't give ourselves the energetic space. Before and after, we might not see those ideas and those [00:35:00] opportunities come to fruition.
Ashley: And so I think you really hit the nail on the head. We've, we've got to leave the door open for that. 
Melissa: Yeah. 
Melissa: And honestly, Ashley, it takes so much courage for you to have done this because when you venture into this, knowing that there's some unknown from on the other side, um, can be really scary. 
Ashley: you're, you're you're singing my language. Well, you're preaching. Yeah, you're singing my language. Um, you're speaking my language. I think again, a lot of your listeners, right? We, if, if we became independent consultants by choice. 
Ashley: We, we have some level of risk tolerance for the unknown, and oftentimes that risk is worth bearing because of the freedom and opportunity it gives us.
Ashley: And so whether you have that muscle or you've had to flex it, whether it comes naturally or not, there's so much applicability to leveraging it for to [00:36:00] design your work to support your life and not the other way around. That's all. Yeah. That's, that's really all there is to it. And I think a huge part of the, that Melisa is like, if I learned kind of one lesson from this, it's to just let yourself know that it's possible to go on sabbatical as an independent consultant, give yourself permission to dream a little, right? I don't think we're doing that enough. We're giving ourselves permission to think out of the box and be creative problem solvers and innovate and. Be an entrepreneur, but maybe if we take like 10 percent of that and, and apply it to what we want for our lives and our, for, and for our careers, I find, I'm sure that we'll all be a lot more fulfilled. 
Melissa: Yeah, 
Melissa: it's the lesson you've, and the theme I've heard so many times today with what you've shared is designing your life and the business around the life, not your life around [00:37:00] the business. Um, which it sounds like a lot of where your passion is taking you now 
Ashley: It is. 
Melissa: direction, helping yourself do that and other people.
Ashley: Thank you for saying that. Yes, that is my next head talk.
Melissa: Yes, I love it. Tell us, uh, tell us a little bit about, um, you mentioned at one point how the clients could benefit. 
Melissa: So how do, how do clients benefit from a consultant that they rely on and trust and lean on for their expertise? How did, how could the clients benefit from, from a consultant taking a sabbatical? 
Ashley: Yeah, 
Ashley: sure. It's a great question. I think, Kind of what I mentioned earlier is the opportunity for the consultant to, to walk away to come back, like to tune out in order to tune back in from, from a client support perspective. So getting out of the day to day of my work and having a change of scenery, I'm able to access different parts of my brain that I just haven't been able to [00:38:00] access because.
Ashley: You know, the grind is so real and the hustle is so real. And so, you know, it's easy to come back from sabbatical, maybe with some fresh ideas, definitely a level of, um, a newfound energy that just wasn't possible before. Um, I think one of the big things though, that might be an unpopular opinion here is.
Ashley: By stepping away from the business and saying, I really need this for myself, you open the door for a client or a colleague or a friend who hears that you're doing this big thing that like, what do you mean you're taking a sabbatical as a freelancer? It opens the door and kind of gives, like, allows them to think about Is that something I need to consider?
Ashley: Right? And so you're kind of teaching and being a proponent of this and saying, it's possible. It's going to be hard, but I'm going to figure it out because I need this for my mental health. 
Ashley: and and I can't [00:39:00] like, no, when I told my clients that I was doing this, there was no ill will. It was all positive feedback.
Ashley: I'm so glad you're doing this. You know, it was all positive feedback. And so. And there were a couple of conversations, like people were so, clients who I, I supported, you know, in our conversations were mostly business, our relationship completely changed. But some, some of my clients would message me and be like, Oh, like, what are you planning?
Ashley: And like, which route are you going to go? And my, my sister did this in 2012. So I was actually able to deepen my relationships with my clients in a way that I otherwise would not have. Because of this experience, they were far more interested in me going off sabbatical than any other client work that I was meant, I was supposed to deliver. 
Melissa: that's 
Melissa: so incredible. And that's probably not something most of us would think about as we think about, um, one of the, one of the impacts of what a sabbatical would be, but it makes so much sense, right? [00:40:00] You're, you, you as a consultant are You're, you, Leading by example, and one of the examples is there, some of them are probably looking in furiously looking in their handbook to see what the sabbatical policy was.
Melissa: And if they were one of the 5 percent or 11 percent that you mentioned, or, or the rest of the world that don't get sabbaticals have to quit. 
Ashley: It's Melisa and you remind me of something else that I really want to make sure that I share with your, your listeners here about looking at a handbook. You know, what are, what are my perks as an employee? Can, can this happen for me? What I, 
Ashley: what's really important for me to share with your listeners is this.
Ashley: Just because we're freelancers and independent consultants does not mean that we should not have the same employee benefits that an employer gives an employee. It does not mean that we don't deserve paid time off and parental leave and a gym in our studio [00:41:00] or even a sabbatical, right? And so one of the biggest things that I want to make sure that I get across here.
Ashley: is for your listeners to understand that it's important to look at yourself as an employee of your business with the same perks and benefits that employers give employees, right? I don't think we necessarily always think about that, like getting paid time off and parental, even all of those things. So it's, there's no reason why we shouldn't set up our businesses in the same way.
Ashley: That's beautifully said. 
Melissa: so grateful you've been here today, Ashley, to bring this topic to light, because I think so many of us don't even think this is possible. So to open the door to this conversation, to create an environment in your business, that's like you being the employee of employer of choice for yourself, right?
Melissa: That is why you're an independent consultant. You have chosen to employ yourself. And how do you become [00:42:00] the employer of choice for yourself? For yourself and creating programs like a sabbatical is one of them. amazing. 
Ashley: beautifully 
Melissa: Oh, 
Ashley: I couldn't agree 
Melissa: good. Thank you for being here, Ashley. I would love, we'll have to do this again.
Melissa: There's so many different topics I know that, uh, you've just touched on briefly that I'm sure people would love to hear more about. So thank you for spending the time here with us today. So grateful to know you and for you to be here and willing to share your story. 
Ashley: Thank you, Melisa I really appreciate you. giving me a platform to share more of my story. I can't think of a better person to do it with. So I appreciate your time and having me on.
Melissa: Thank you. Tell us where, tell the listeners where they can find you. 
Ashley: Great. Definitely check me out and connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm very active there and would love to connect with you. 
Melissa: Amazing. 
Melissa: We'll put your link in the show notes. And, uh, I know for sure you're going to get messages and connections. I hear all the time people are telling me, Oh, I met so and [00:43:00] so, they found me on, they found me on your podcast. And, um, so it's always fun to set up those kind of networking connections. So I'm sure your, your LinkedIn box is going to be flooded, 
Melissa: all sorts of questions.
Melissa: So 
Ashley: Thank you Melisa 
Melissa: for offering that as an avenue. 
Ashley: Thank you, Melisa It 
Ashley: with you today. 
Melissa: All right. Thanks for being here. 
Ashley: See ya. [00:44:00]