Do you love you? Okay, if you love you, that's all that matters. The cool part of me is that I am good at math, but I'm also a thinker, and I also like to read books, and I also like to cook. That's what makes me me.
SPEAKER_02Hi, I'm Vanessa Vicaria, aka the Math Guru, and you're listening to Math Therapy, a podcast that helps guests work through their math traumas one problem at a time. Whether you think you're a math person or not, you're about to find out that math people don't actually exist. But the scars that math class left on many of us definitely do. Oh, and don't worry, no calculators or actual math were involved in the making of this podcast. Okay, guys, you know how I want to turn this podcast into a Netflix reality show? Or, like, do you not know that? Okay, well, anyways, either way, now you do, and more importantly, today I am one step closer because I'm going super meta and interviewing a social media star who's famous for being on a Netflix show about social media. That's right, guys. Today I chat with Tara Leisha from The Circle. It's a Netflix reality show that asks contestants to compete as a social media avatar. Like they never even meet in person and they do all their communicating via this app that looks like Instagram. When I initially watched the show, Tara Leisha jumped right out to me because get this, she's a musician and a math teacher just like me. But the thing is, the show never even mentioned that she was a musician. They focused exclusively on the math side of her, which I thought was kind of sus because like it felt to me she wasn't allowed to be both, which is something I'm very familiar with. Today, Tara Alicia and I chat about what it means to be a STEM person, but also someone who drops baby making tunes on Spotify while also getting the villain edit on a Netflix reality show. How can these multiple versions of ourselves coexist in a world that doesn't like to admit that people can be more than one thing? Well, you're about to find out. Also, stay tuned for a couple of cameo guests midway through. I won't ruin the surprise, but it's so cute.
What's up, what's up? Okay, I have a million things to ask you. I'm already stressed out about all the things I want to talk about. Where I first found out about you was on Netflix's show, The Circle, season two, and you said there is a quote that I've like written down and I love. You said, I came to the circle to show that you can be beautiful and brainy. So I want to start there almost. Like, how did it happen? How did you decide to come on the show? What was the motivation?
SPEAKER_03Money.
SPEAKER_02Like any good mathematician.
SPEAKER_03Yes, math is our money. Um, really, it was it honestly was uh the money, the the thought of being able to win a hundred thousand dollars just by being myself. Um but also I watched season one and I thought like, oh, how amazing is this? It's different from what I've seen before. So I I felt like I could if I got on the show that I could win it. And I would have if it wasn't for those pesky kids.
SPEAKER_02So wait a second, how did you get on the show though? Asking as someone who's just trying to be famous over here.
SPEAKER_03Um, I they had a casting where you go to the like the I don't know, circlecasting.com and then I submitted for it, and like literally within a couple days, I could call like a yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so this is this is simultaneously exciting and disappointing because there was a casting, like a similar thing for Indian matchmaking, and I applied and it was months ago and I didn't get a call, so now I'm starting to think that like oh my god, you're sounding like you think I was rejected.
SPEAKER_03No, because everybody's everybody's situation is different. It could be them still compiling. You could be in a pal. So it can still be happening. I just think for me, um, based on what I was told, my picture just really, you know, the blue hair just really popped out. So I was one of like the first people that caught their eye, like the majority eyes.
SPEAKER_02Right, and I probably I didn't have a picture. I was I didn't have my purple hair, so uh we all know that it was probably downhill, unless they're still compiling, so whatever. You know what? They can still be compiling, they're still compiling, they're still compiling. Okay, fine. Positive vibes. So do you think you could give a quick explanation of what the circle is if people are like, I haven't seen it?
SPEAKER_03Yes, um, it is eight strangers in one apartment that you're not seeing. You only do all of your communication through the circle um profile. Um, and you can go in as anyone that you like, um, yourself or as a catfish, and the game or the goal is to win $100,000 by being voted the most popular in the circle.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, it's like Instagram in real life, basically. So I think what was so fascinating about not just you, but your season. First of all, I noticed there were a few people that were in STEM-related fields, which is so weird for reality TV, right? Like Savannah was a data scientist, I think, right?
SPEAKER_03Uh I don't even know if that's true. Oh, like she was lying? No, I'm saying I really in real life. I don't know if that's true or not. That was just part of her role.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, so let's talk about that for a second. Okay,
so now obviously I'm not famous, but I was on a show once for one episode called Canada's Smartest Person, and it was like a reality game show. But you know how, like, and I want you to talk more about this because you had the real experience, how they like have you on there as a character, right? Like you're a very multifaceted. Obviously, what drew me to you is you're a musician and a mathematician, which is literally me. And like we both have, okay, I feel bad because I have blonde hair right now, but we both have like cool hair, and we're both musicians and we're both math teachers and mathematicians, and that is quote unquote weird. Like people are like, whoa, I've never seen that before. But when I went on Canada's smartest person, they only called me a mathematician. They didn't talk about my music at all. And I noticed with you too, you you talked about math a lot, and I never heard you talk about music. Was that something purposeful? Was that an edit? Like, what happened there?
SPEAKER_03An edit.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_03It wasn't? Yeah, it was. I talked it equally about uh being you know, mathy and musical. Um, but they didn't really show that part. Yeah. So okay, so let's that's and okay, so between us and the listeners, um, they do not show. Um, it's our second picture upload. Uh, our second picture upload was the day Lance came into the circle, and that's when I showed the artist side of Ter Alicia. That's how they knew I had blue hair. Oh, yeah, we had a thing that's called a pop star picture. Welcome Lance to the you know as a pop star. As a pop star. And they never, yeah, they never showed that. And so that was when I introduced them to Terralisha the singer. Um, also Terrycia with the blue hair, and it was a hit. I was so well loved and liked. And I was showing them my six pack, and yeah.
SPEAKER_02This is a podcast, otherwise, I'd be like, show it to us now. Guys, don't worry, it's real. Okay, but but I do have a question about that. Like, did did that make you feel any type of way, or were you just like, like, it must be, is it hard for you to negotiate those two identities? Like, I found it. I'm curious to hear from you because I've had such a tough experience with it myself, and I feel like there's so much shit in the media about girls, especially either have like having to pick an identity. Like, you either want to be pretty or you've got to have brains. You either have to be creative or you have to give it up. Like, did any of that come into play for you?
SPEAKER_03Not me personally, but I guess they they had a version of me that they wanted to show. Um, but for me, I like I said, beautiful being beautiful and brainy, being uh an artist and a mathematician and uh whatever I am and everything that I am, I always felt like that's what made me like Ter Alicia the cool teacher. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So and I even said that like um uh I think it was like uh I love a lot of I I love a lot of single single little I love a lot or something like in my bio. So I always planted seeds of being uh you know a musician. It's just you know the viewers didn't get to see it all based on the edit. But yeah, but I was I came in, like even in my intro video, like it's just a lot of stuff, you know, edited out. It was like, wait a minute, hold on. But I think I think what they didn't want to show much of the music side for me, maybe because they knew Lance was coming. So I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's so interesting. Like, so much, okay. So my master's is in like media and marketing and math. It was called Imagining a World Where Paris Hilton loves math, and it was all about like how the media like constantly reinforces this idea, especially to young women, that like if you want to be good at math, you have to sacrifice other sides of yourself. So, for example, like you know how you always people hear people be like, Oh, I'm not a math person, I'm more of a creative person. And you're like, yo, like that, you can be both of those things. I wonder, like, when I see a show like The Circle, I'm like, oh, you had an opportunity to actually show Terrelisha in her wholeness to be like, yeah, not only do we have this really, really cool, amazing, beautiful woman who's a mathematician, but she also loves music. She's successful at both. I don't know, like, I feel like it was kind of a missed opportunity to like showcase to viewers that you can be both. Like, we don't have to keep pigeonholding people.
SPEAKER_03I do too. I feel the same way. I uh but I feel like it was by design. I think that's what they wanted.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And um, I think they thought that like the whole I mean it is like math is kind of cooler because anybody can try to sing or rap, but not everybody can be good at math and not everybody can create a theorem. So I think they were wanting to hold on to you know, hold in on to that part of my personality. But I do, yeah, I do believe it was a missed opportunity um to show it to the viewers because those within the circle knew it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, totally, and I think it kind of fit it. I always find, I don't know if you find this, I find that like it confuses people. Like, people are so used to binaries that when I'm like, oh, I'm a musician, a mathematician, they're like, I don't get it.
SPEAKER_03Like, and I'm like, what yeah, it was it, it was the the most annoying shit, honestly, when the like show aired. I thought she did mad. She's just a singer. And it's like Oh my god, what? Yes, people hated the fact like I was like multi-faceted, multi-dimensional. I thought she was a teacher. Are you still teaching? Were you ever really a teacher? Oh my god, her theorem is probably fake. I'm like, I actually meant on a tweet about it. I made tweets about it, like, no, I I did it all because you are your one trip pony.
SPEAKER_02Don't don't be mad at me. Wow. So that, see, and that's so interesting because like who we actually interviewed another guest about something similar. Um, the astrophysicist Ballerina, who's so cool, but she was saying that like it's almost like when people hear both, it devalues the other. Like exactly what you said. They're like, okay, well, you sing. So you're not really a mathematician, or like, oh, you're mathematicians. You're not. And I wonder, like, again, like, I think that's partially exactly what you said in a way. It's almost kind of like trying to make yourself feel better, right? Like by tearing someone else down. But also, I think it's that the we like almost don't believe it because we're not given that those versions of people in pop culture. Like, we see people as one-dimensional shows. Again, like, I think we use binaries because we're confused, otherwise. Like, people think that people can't handle it. So they're like, we're just gonna talk about our math. Otherwise, like it's gonna get confusing. So I love that that doesn't affect you at all. Like, you're kind of like, that's not my shit, that's your shit. Exactly. So, okay, do your students think you're like the coolest person in the world?
SPEAKER_03They already thought I was cool, so now they really think I'm cool.
Okay, we need to talk about math for a second. On the show, you talk a lot about like you're when you're choosing who to vote on and off, you're like, okay, but I did the math and blah, blah, blah. That's how you made a lot of your decisions. Can I ask like what math you were doing? Like, what were you doing to try to figure out who to like vote like block and not block?
SPEAKER_03Um, well, it was two things. Once I was really trying to vote like a like alliances, but I also wanted to vote though, because at the end of the day, it's a gang. Um, those who I knew would be voted higher, I would like mathematically rank them lower, average it out, balance it out, giving myself a higher opportunity. Averages matter.
SPEAKER_02Everyone is what data leaves you say. Okay. Exactly. But that's actually really smart, and that kind of worked for a bit, right?
SPEAKER_03If I wasn't blocked, so soon I think it would have worked even better.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and one could say it kind of worked at the end because Trevor, who won, was never super high, right? So maybe people never really use that strategy with him.
SPEAKER_03That's exactly why I think that uh Trevor won.
SPEAKER_02That's exactly why. So it is kind of math. So if you're listening to this and you're like, but when will I ever use math in real life? It's like, well, when you get cast on that reality show and you're trying to win $100,000.
SPEAKER_03I guarantee if your check comes up short, you will be turn become a mathematician quickly.
Okay, so I think I told you this, but I need to like read, I'm I'm gonna find this. So one of my tutors, so during COVID, the circle came out, and one of my tutors and his student became obsessed with not only the show, but they loved you. And they decided, you know, it was COVID times. They were tutoring virtually, they're trying to find ways to make uh lessons meaningful. And they decided to use for like a month straight, they just used the circle as a mathematical experiment. And so he got so excited that you were gonna be on the podcast that he sent me. Like, I woke up this morning to like seven messages of the whole explanation, and I was like, I'm gonna get him. I'm I think we're gonna get him to do a voice note of this for the podcast because he and his student need the shout-out because they're literally losing it. Okay, what are their names? Okay, Elias and Riley.
SPEAKER_03Hi, Elias, hi Riley. It's Tara Alicia from the circle, season two. How are you?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, they're gonna lose that, they're gonna lose it. Okay, so he's like, Vanessa, if you don't mind just running the spires, or she knows what we did. Okay, so he goes, I knew we both really liked the circle, so on a whim I asked her if she'd be less interested. So this is a high school student, okay, if she'd be interested in learning something from a completely different branch of mathematics, namely graph theory.
SPEAKER_00We wanted to use graph theory to predict the winner of the circle season two after the first four episodes were released.
SPEAKER_01Graph theory is a branch of mathematics in which two sets of objects are defined, vertices and edges.
SPEAKER_00There are several applications of graph theory, but in the case of our circle analysis, we created a graph in which vertices represented players and edges represented friendships.
SPEAKER_01If players were friends, they would be connected with edges. We gave each of these edges numerical values to reflect the strength of those friendships based on the edit of the circle.
SPEAKER_00We also used triadic closure to further predict the outcome of the rest of the season. In graph theory, triadic closure basically states that if you have two friends, it's likely they'll also be friends.
SPEAKER_01With that sort of insight, we'd be able to predict future alliances and friendships that would develop in the circle. After completing this graph, we summed up the value of each edge passing through each player. In graph theory, this is known as a vertex degree.
SPEAKER_00That vertex degree functioned as a player score, and based on our analysis, the player with the highest score in the graph was the most likely to win the circle.
SPEAKER_01Our prediction actually came very close to the result of the circle season two. This was a really fun exercise and an opportunity to learn more about a bridge of math not covered in high school that has many, many real-world applications.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like they went off and they sent me graphs every week of how these things, like what they bet on. I'm gonna send it to you because it was so intense. But do, please do.
SPEAKER_03I would love to see it.
SPEAKER_02Right? Graph theory, triadic closure. Like you were like the reason that this high school kid learned all about graph theory, and they were so excited every week during COVID. So you're amazing. Wow. Honored. Okay, a
couple more things I just need to know. So, like, post the circle. What is what is the balance? And I'm kind of asking you this as a personal question because I want to know because I kind of have the same thing. Like, how do you balance both music and math in your life? Like, what's the balance? What do you do? What's the vibe?
SPEAKER_03Uh, first of all, like I've said on the show, math is your money. Math makes everything move, especially when it comes to my music. Numbers matter. You know, um contracts matter. The money matters. Um, matters in everything that I do, whether it's the number of songs that I make, the amount of hours I'm in. Everything is the root of everything is math.
SPEAKER_02And did you like were you ever made to feel at any point that like it was weird that you were both into math and music? Or were you always kind of just like what kind of thing happened? And how did you get by? Like, what advice would you have for someone who's struggling with that and who's like, mmm, like it's weird.
SPEAKER_03You know, my motto is really fucking people. People let them literally, I what it's it's a thing. It is a thing. Literally, my friends say that if you look at my comments, you'll often see F FTP, uh, FTK, and it's um, yeah, I don't really don't give a fuck, and I don't think people should care what people think about them. Do you love you? Okay, if you love you, that's all that matters. What other people think about you, and you know, I know the cool part of me is that I am good at math, but I'm also a singer, and I also like to read books, and I also like to cook, and I'll, you know, it's yeah, that's what makes me me. And so I honestly my advice to people who are worried about other people would be stop worrying about what other people think about you.
SPEAKER_02How do you reconcile that being your mono with literally being on a show where you have to care what people think?
SPEAKER_03We see what happened. I never cared. I literally never cared. It was the game. I never I realized because you know, if you spend so much time focused on what other people feel about you, you will start to hate yourself because they don't like you. They're not gonna like you either way, so who cares?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think that's really, really amazing advice. And I think that's super important, especially in a world where people are, you know, everyone's willing, everyone's trying to categorize someone and box someone in and tear them down so they can feel better about themselves. And I think that's really solid advice. So,
in in math class, you know, what grade do you teach, by the way? High school, nine through twelve. And what like, how do you deal with students who feel like they can't do math? Like, do you have a special thing? Like, do you have like your a go-to? Do you have a pep talk?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I think I said earlier, I say most most of my students work. I say if your check is wrong, where you're gonna know it, you're gonna know instantly why because you did the math. They're like, You right, Miss T, you right, you right. I said, You go get your money, you go buy you some Nikes, and you get your change back, you're gonna count. And if it ain't right, you're gonna know that, right? You just did math. I said, so that goes for any any math. Now, some math may be harder to learn or harder to grasp, but I don't use the word can't because you can't. You might take a little longer, it might be hard, but you you can do it.
SPEAKER_02Well, I love this is kind of like the oh my god, I was gonna be like, this is like full circle. But this is kind of full circle because it's funny that I kind of like it in a way. Like we all have different things when it comes to math. Like for me, when people are like, when am I gonna use math in real life? I focus on something different. Like, I'm kind of like, it's all about the thinking skills. I'm like, blah, blah, blah. But I kind of like that. You're like, Yeah, you're like, math is your money. I stand by it, and I went on a show where literally the whole goal was to use math to make money, and I'm on brand through and through. Through and through.
SPEAKER_03Through and through. Okay.
Well, this has been so fun. I have two final questions to ask you. The first question I would say to you is if there's, and this is actually great because you're in the school system, if there's one thing you could change about the way math is taught in schools, what would it be?
SPEAKER_03What no, I'm gonna tell you what I and I say this all the time. I think that math should totally be rewired in school from the beginning to the end. Um, I think we should learn about shit that really matters, things that we need to know, like taxes.
SPEAKER_02I don't why don't we learn about taxes or money, like PR?
SPEAKER_03No one knows about seriously, like APRs, like we need to know the things are root of, like things are gonna matter. You want to get a house, you want to know, you know, your longevities, the things that things that matter, your savings, your that's the things that no one like gives a fuck about E equals M C square. Like, when's the last time you used that?
SPEAKER_02I know, I'm like, why did I just learn what a mortgage was? Like, why didn't I learn that when I was like 13? Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. Yeah, we understood that.
SPEAKER_03I mean, we learned I learned that in, you know, we didn't learn that honestly until like college years, but I feel like if we would have learned that in high school, that would have been more beneficial than learning like the Pythagorean theorem. Because what the fuck?
SPEAKER_02Okay, but also Pythague, Pythague, by the way, has like a really juicy past. You should look into it, like a lot of like multiple lovers. Okay, that being said, oh my god, I feel like this could be the basis for one of your songs, to be honest. But but what I was gonna say is so what's interesting with that math thing you said, I don't know how it is there, but in Ontario, the fucked up thing is you know who learns about taxes and mortgages and stuff? If you get streamed into the like, I'm using air quotes, the lower math, like the non-university math, you'll learn all the practical shit. But if you're going to university, for some reason you don't learn any, it's so fucked up, and it's such a like it's by design, right?
SPEAKER_03It's by design, they don't want us to be financially literate, so they teach us shit that financially doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, right? Like, how messed up is that?
SPEAKER_03No, I'm telling you, like, they don't want it because they I'm it's a thing. This is a whole nother podcast, baby. I'll go into it. I like I really feel like they they set us up to be, anyways. Next question.
SPEAKER_02Like, we're honestly we could do a whole other podcast because I think that too. I also am like, oh, school was designed in the industrial revolution when we needed people who just followed rules and didn't think critically. Yes, now they're still pumping out those same people. We don't need people to just make like, we don't need a million people making boxes. We need people to think, but they don't want us to think because then we realize the system is broken. Yes, and we'll make our own money. Exactly. No, oh my god. Okay, next podcast.
Okay, final question. What would you say to someone who is like, Tara Alicia, this has been so inspiring, but I'm just not a math person.
SPEAKER_03I'd say I completely understand. I completely understand. Math isn't for everyone, it's kind of like boxing. I'm definitely not a boxer. So you I you yeah, like everything isn't for everybody. That's why there are so many other things other than math. You might be a chemist, you might be, you know, into physics, you might be into other levels of math that you're not aware of. You might be, I don't know, a tree maker or you make canoes. Like, that's why everybody has their own personality. I happen to be really good at math and science, however, um, there's someone who may not be as good at it, but and really, really great at. You know, building houses. You expect me to build a house? You're in a box.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, oh my god. Such it's an interesting perspective. It's always interesting to hear how people answer that question. Thank you so much for being here today. You're amazing. You're an icon. Everyone go listen to Tara Alicia's music. Where can we find it?
SPEAKER_03Yes, but everywhere music is, Tara Alicia is as well. Amazing.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, it's been great. Bye, girl. See you next time. Bye. Okay,
wait. How cute were my tutor and his student? Like, imagine being so famous and cool that someone makes a math problem about you. That is the kind of standard we need, guys. This is how we make math cool. Need more of Ter Alicia in your life? I thought so. Find her everywhere at Teralicia. That's T-E-R-I-L-I-S-H-A. And check out the Blue Heart EP, available on all streaming platforms. Warning, her tunes bang in more ways than one. And similar to this podcast, may not be for younger listeners. If something in this episode inspired you, please tweet us at Math Therapy. And you can also follow me personally at the Math Guru on Instagram or Twitter. Math Therapy is hosted by me, Vanessa Vicaria, produced by Sabina Wex, and edited by David Koachberg. Our theme song is Waves by my band Goodnight Sunrise. And guys, if you know someone who needs math therapy or needs to hear someone else getting math therapy, please share this podcast and rate or review it on whatever podcast app you use. Those things actually make such a difference. I am determined to change the culture surrounding math, and I need your help. So please spread the word. That's all for this week. Stay tuned for our next episode out next Thursday.