Hey guys, and welcome to another bonus episode of Math Therapy. Season two is starting in three weeks, but until then, I thought I would come at you with a little mini toad starting a legitimate COVID celeb. Okay, that sounds weird, but seriously, my guest today is an actual influencer, but like for science. And she has been killing it with her fresh takes on COVID over the past two months. Dr. Samantha Yameen is a neuroscientist and science communicator, better known as Science Sam. She got her PhD from the University of Toronto and went on to found Science Sam Media after graduating. And guys, I'm like low-key obsessed with her. She's so fucking cool. You know me, I really think that one of the keys to making math and science accessible to everyone is like using platforms that everyone uses, like Netflix or YouTube and social media. And that's exactly what she does. You know, this podcast is all about math trauma and how shitty math experiences leave so many of us feeling a lack of confidence when it comes to numbers and scientific language. And I've been feeling that really hard during this pandemic, and I know you guys have been too. I don't know about you, but I've been really upset about all of the fake news, like science conspiracy nonsense that the internet has been spewing on us. And I'm most upset about the fact that like a lot of it is designed to manipulate those of us who aren't comfortable with math and science to begin with. And that's what gives these conspiracy fiends like power, and I've had enough. So that's why I've brought Science Sam in. I'm calling in the big guns because it's time to break this down in a way we can all actually understand. So, and rant, Q Science Sam.
Hi Sam, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Vanessa.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for having me and for that glowing introduction. I'm just gonna play that for myself every day for a little boost. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00It's so true. Um, okay, so I think the first thing I was gonna just ask you to talk about because I bet a lot of people don't know. Like, you call yourself a science communicator. Like, what is that and what do you do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, science communicator is a really umbrella word for a lot of different jobs. But what I do specifically is I tell stories about science. I try to share the fascinating science that's around us all the time. Right now I've been focused on COVID-19, but usually it's just me talking about like what's inside all the cells in your body or why is the sky blue? Why do the leaves change color? Will collagen supplements change my skin? Just science that's around us all the time that we might not even realize. And as a science communicator, it's my job to tell those stories and pull people into conversations about science, not just talking at people because that's really boring and it's not helpful, but having conversations with people about things that are really cool and interesting and applicable to their life related to science.
SPEAKER_00I love that. That's such a cool description. And obviously, you know, I'm a huge Instagram fan of yours, and I think it's so cool. Like I remember this like Valentine's Day post you did where you were actually talking about like love and like the heart and like dopamine, and it was all of my students thought it was really, really cool, and most of them profess to hate science. So good job. Um, so I actually have like a random question, I guess. Like, why why don't most scientists communicate the way you do? Like, I know I know you can't like speak for everyone, but why is it so rare to find someone like you that can actually speak about scientific concepts in a way that most people understand?
SPEAKER_01It's a really good question, and there's no simple answer, but part of it, like so when I was doing research full-time as part of my PhD, you know, you don't really have the training, nor necessarily the time to like you barely have that, you're collecting data all the time, you're doing these long days in the lab, you're analyzing that data, then you're trying to move quickly, publish it, and get it out to your colleagues, and then move on to the next thing. And you're always just trying, like keeping up with the world is really hard. Keeping up with the world scientifically is really hard. And so there's not really a lot of time, and there's a lot of time pressures on you to get your research out to your colleagues and to the scientific community, that there's not always time to stop and like put it down into words that make it accessible, which is an issue, and that's a problem that needs to be fixed. There should be time that should be deemed part of the scientific process. Like I many people will say this is not these are not my words, but science is not done until it is properly communicated. That is part of the scientific process. If you're finding something, who cares? You need to share it, and then it needs to be evaluated, understood, used. And that's so important, but it hasn't been made part of the process. Um, and we also, because of that, we don't receive training. Science communication isn't very much valued, it's usually something people will do uh on a volunteer basis while they're researching. It's not something that they'll get any marks for, you know, or that they'll get paid for or anything. So there's not a lot of incentive. Um, and that's also such a shame because especially when your research involves like one, research is often publicly funded through government grants from taxpayer money. So we got to give it back. And then two, like our research affects people in the world. And so we need to be communicating, asking people what they think and what's a priority for them for us to research. And anyways, sorry, like I could go on forever, but that's okay.
SPEAKER_00It's all part of it, but it's it's it's also like made me think on the flip side, only because like I know so much of like you know how you built your brand and stuff. Like, what's interesting to me, I'm thinking, is like because it's actually so rare, and I know you've dealt with this backlash a lot, because you do communicate accessibly, I've seen you get heat from people being like, this isn't how you communicate real science. And like, like that's so fucked up because then like you do you find that sometimes your work is devalued because it's like too easy to understand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, honestly, and yeah, so I have face backlash, and I will say, by the way, you were an incredible supporter and you helped me emotionally so much during some of the those times. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if anyone listening to this knows, but I had a really nasty article written about me, and Vanessa here sent me a cookie cake, and I was so depressed that day, and I got her cookie cake, and I was like, this is so stupid. I love it. Like this is just so unnecessarily indulgent, and that is what I needed. And anyway, so mad respect to you. But yeah, um, so there will always be backlash. The thing is, there are people doing science communication, there are documentaries out there, there are people giving these talks and these auditoriums, and that's really important, but it's really like one note. We've been doing science communication, we've been sharing science in like very serious ways, or only showing explosions, or like big cars crushing things. Can we explode the you know, like it's very it's stuff that never resonated with me. I didn't grow up watching those shows because I was like, I don't care about this explosion, like I care about other stuff. So I'm trying to do things differently to fill the gaps that I always felt. And I encourage that's what I encourage others to do. Like, don't just do the same thing. Don't think that science communication has to be one way or always serious. Like, do it the way that resonates with you and the communities you're trying to reach. And that way we can get a more diverse, if we can get more diverse approaches to sharing science and pulling people in, we're gonna reach more people, and that's dope. Like, that is the goal.
SPEAKER_00People will hate you for it.
SPEAKER_01People will say, like, oh, you you use selfies and you like use emojis in your descriptions. I'm like, if you don't like, I think Jay-Z said this. Like, if you don't like it, it's not for you. So, like, whatever. He said it.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, yeah, pulling in Jay-Z. I forget. I forgot what I mean.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's he who does not see me. He does not feel me, it's not real to me, therefore he does not exist. So poof the moose, son of a bitch. That's what it is.
SPEAKER_00Okay, wow.
SPEAKER_01That that really slaps for me because like it's true. So anyway.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, let's move on to COVID because like this is what's been so amazing for me, honestly. So, like, I mean, what's so crazy is that, like, you know, I talk a lot about how we live in a world where many people are not confident and they're anxious around math and science, right? So, like, we already have that, but I think what's been so interesting with this pandemic is it's science-based. So, like, there is no getting around it. All the inf all of a sudden the news is full of fucking math and science. So, like, I've I did not see this coming. Like, I wouldn't have even thought of this, but what you see now is this crazy narrative of like misinformation and conspiracy theories and fake news, all premised upon the fact that like most people don't truly understand or feel confident around math or science. So, like, how do you see this playing out?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I I think it is it is important for us to realize like one lesson we gotta take away is yeah, science is making the top headlines right now. And that's something we don't usually see, and that's something for us to reflect on as a society. Like, we can't only care about science when people are literally gonna die if we don't, because science does take time and it does it takes that time to be good quality and to be truthful, and it so it needs our support on an ongoing basis. We can't only decide that we care about science in a crisis, it's just not gonna work, we'll always be behind if that's what we do. Um, so that's a big issue, and it's something we gotta take away. Um, with that said, given that science is having a moment for an unlike a really unfortunate reason, we have to do the most with it and we have to make sure that we're fostering uh trusting relationships and we're not tarnishing people's trust right now. And because there's so much hastiness to get information out, we're not we're maybe not doing the best. I think there are some amazing journalists, but there have also been like some scientists trying to give their hot takes and and get a soapbox. And there's also scientists who really study the details and they want that detail out there, but that detail gets misinterpreted and taken out of context. And research is all about context because it's so specific. What you're studying is only one small puzzle piece, and I think there's just been a lot of hasty communication that hasn't necessarily been helpful or productive, and that's been a bit of a breeding ground for conspiracies and mistrust, and we really got uh to band together and realize you know, maybe we need to delegate communicators, maybe we need to think more deeply about our strategies, and and it's hard to come up with a whole PR and communication plan in a crisis. So these are things we should have already had, but um, it's just really tough. Like we just need to be really careful, and every person who's talking about this needs to think is this, even if it's one little tweet, is this a helpful tweet? Is this gonna cause more confusion than help? Am I going against public guidelines? And if so, is there a good reason for me to do that? Like, am I really saying something important? We all gotta think so deeply about everything, and that's not something we're used to because Twitter is about firing off a quick tweet, you know?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, this is literally so topical because of the Brian Adams thing, though. That's like literally what happened. Yeah, like, but I love how you said there should be delegated communicators. Like maybe Brian Adams had that thought. It should have filtered through to his press person who could have been like, okay, Brian, I totally like, you know, like so.
SPEAKER_01Usually because he has a press person, it's like, girl.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I know, I know, not that whole thing's messed up, but I just love the bath. You knew.
SPEAKER_01100%. But at the same time, though, saying only some people can communicate and not others leads to gatekeeping, and that's not cool either. Like, no one delegated me, you know. So if we had those rules, maybe I would be silenced. So it's complicated, but we just gotta think more deeply about the way we communicate.
SPEAKER_00So I have a question, okay, because I have this whole theory that might be like that is literally premised on nothing. So I'm just gonna say that right now. This is like completely anecdotal. I'm just like after I die that no one should do a hot take, but I'm looking at my okay. So I have this whole like idea that like, so we're talking about science communication, and like obviously, you know, there's no training, but you know, I would assume science communication involves things like using media that, you know, reaches people in target demographics that aren't normally reached and using language that's accessible and whatever. Like, I feel like, you know, people who are like in charge of stuff like the pandemic video or the Bakersfield video, or like any of the like actual, like purposefully designed media, not just like a sci- uh, you know, a scientist being like, I have this idea. I feel like, are they actually using like really good science communication techniques, but for evil?
SPEAKER_01Oh, like yes, yes. Okay, like is that tell me about that first of all? First of all, I love that you are like, I have this quite and then it ends up being like such a real truth and so good. See, that is you are you are modeling the behavior we all need, extreme humility and caution before saying something spicy. That is what we know, yeah. Not now she's gonna go off and just go get a soapbox. But it's true, like that caution is necessary. And um, what we what people have been observing is yeah, they're they're like, look, video production is a multi-billion, many multi-billion dollar industry. People know how to do it right, people know what will like you think of any movie that you've watched where you got goosebumps. They know that they're making you emotional with that slow piano. You know, they know what they're doing, and so that can be used for good and bad. Now, in science, we try not to use that type of it's called rhetoric, like this type of like manipulative emotional communication. We're trained not to do that. We're trained to be really dry and just factual in the way that we communicate. And actually, that's a fault because it means that sometimes it's dry and boring and people aren't compelled to listen. So, as communicators, we try to find the happy medium. And there are training programs, there is a science to communicating science. Um, it's just it's not given as training to most scientists. But part of what we try to do as communicators is hit that balance. How can we use storytelling and be compelling but still be factual and let people know about the uncertainty? But these people making these documentary mockumentaries like pandemic, and not even a mockumentary, BS, like pandemic and makers, whatever it is, they know what they're doing and they are using um, they are reinforcing biases and they are using um persuasive techniques of persuasion to a T. Uh, there's an amazing article by someone named Tara Hale, H-E-A-E-L-L-E is is the last name of the author. And in that she talks about the different um techniques being used, something called Gish Galop, for example. And that's something a lot of conspirators will do, where they'll just throw lots of information at you really quickly, and none of it will necessarily be true. It'll just be a lot all at once, and so you're like, whoa, it's overwhelming. It must be true. There's so much, and it's really hard to debate against because it's just so much spewing. Another technique is you might have heard of ethos, logos, and pathos, right? So like I read that in that article that you shared. Exactly. Pathos. But no, tell us, tell us, tell us. This is good. Yeah, they're they they do all these things to appeal to your emotions, to appeal to the the narrator or or the the sign, you know, in in pandemic, they try to make Judy Mikovitz be like this scorned scientist who was, you know, like she was mistreated and she's the victim. They really build that up and try to build in her credibility. Um, the other thing that they do, they don't really have the logos part, the logic, trying to appeal to facts and numbers. They don't have that, but they'll make you think they do. Um, using something called uh, oh, what's it called? It's it's like a the familiarity principle. There's oh mirror exposure uh what is this? This is called fascinating. I'm totally forgetting the formal name. It's it's some mirror exposure effect, that's what it is, or the familiarity principle, where just because you see something over and over, it becomes familiar, and so you start to believe it's true. And that's what happens with headlines, and this is why clickbait is an issue, because you'll see the clickbait titles, and maybe you'll never click on it. And at the moment when you see the clickbait title, you're like, Oh, yeah, I don't believe that. But then you'll just see it over and over again so that later when your friend is like, hey, I heard this, you'll be like, Oh yeah, I heard that too. And you won't really know where it came from, and you won't know what's anything behind it, but because it's familiar, it be feels true. They use that to make you think that they have logic on their side. They'll just say things that are familiar enough, but not actually accurate, and then you'll be like, Yeah, yeah, that that that does sound right. That kind of makes sense with things I know. So, yeah, I guess it's true. And it's very clever, very deceptive, very effective, and it can be really hard to dispute. And and they know what they're doing. So don't feel bad when people post response videos uh saying that it's wrong and they had bad intentions. You know, I I did that with the Bakersfield guys, and people were in the comments being like, you're being really unfair to them. They're just trying to help. And I'm like, no, they're not. They know what they're doing. And if you for one second think that they don't and that I'm some evil person who's just being mean, I think you're missing just how much effort they put into this.
SPEAKER_00Well, what I love is when you, because I uh your video, which we'll link in the show notes to that Bakersfield brothers one, is so good because like you basically read. I love how you redo their math, right? And explain how the numbers are manipulative. But I I I just get so worried because it's like I don't know how anyone would figure this out on their own. Like, I'm not like me included. Like I think it's so hard. So it's like, I mean, I guess like this is so cool because I feel like you're really like spilling the tea on like the inside secrets that people are using. But I think it's important. I think it's so important for people to know. But I guess one question I have is like, you know, what like let's say you're in this discussion, right? And someone's like, hey, look, the Bakersfield brothers, they're just trying to help and you're coming along and proving them wrong. Like, one thing we're seeing with that pandemic video is everyone's like, well, it's just another perspective. Everyone has a right to another perspective. Like, how, how do we deal? Like, I feel like I'm losing a lot of friends. Like, you know, like how do you because I do, I can't help but get so angry being like, oh my God, I can't believe you believe this bullshit. And I know I'm being unfair because it's like, I don't, I think most people are innocently just trying to make sense of the information they have in whatever way they know how. So, like, can you give us some advice? Like, first, like some advice on like, what are I like? I love what you just gave us, those techniques. What are some other things to look for when trying to decipher between a good and a bad source? And also, like, how do we talk to people about this? Like, if we see a perfectly reasonable smart friend of ours posting the pandemic video, what can we do?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it's it's really tough. Like at this point, you know, I know I'm so sorry I keep saying that, but like this situation is just tough. And we need to start with acknowledging that all of us are struggling right now. This is not easy for anyone. This is an objectively difficult, crappy, unprecedented. Well, and maybe, you know, we kind of saw it coming, but this is a tough, tough situation. And none of us expected it would have this big of a personal, emotional, um uh medical and economic impact on like this is just wild, you know. So we just gotta remember that. And the same thing fueling your anger is fueling another person's fear, and and it is important for us to have a diversity of perspectives. Absolutely. It's important for us to question authority and to to be free thinkers and to consider things that we might be missing from the headlines. Like that is always very important. And I I would never want to, like, my job is never to persuade someone to change their mind. My job is to give people facts so that they're empowered to make decisions and to let them know when they're getting played. Like, that is my job. I don't care about the people who are not gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02Wait, that's I love that.
SPEAKER_01It's not it's not my job. Like, I don't, I really don't care. Like, take a supplement, don't take a like that's your own personal health. Who am I to tell you what you should do with your body? Like, that's not what I'm trying to do here. But the the issue is difficult when it's public health, it's not a matter of personal health, it's a matter of everyone's health. And so there we gotta be really careful and really firm at letting making it clear when something is wrong, and there are really dangerous ramifications. So it's good that when you're seeing people posting about something that's fraudulent and incorrect, that you're saying something because it needs to be opposed. And there can be a bystander effect where a lot of people are thinking the same thing as you, but not actually commenting on it and not actually calling it out, and it goes left unopposed, and then we get that familiarity thing happening where people keep seeing it and seeing it, and it becomes thought to be true. So it's really, really important that we are opposing these things. We're not just being lurkers scrolling through and and that we're contributing and trying to have meaningful conversations. Now, the challenge is how do you do that effectively? And in my experience, I mean, I don't have the answer. I'm still learning this, but uh, what the research has shown us is uh leading with empathy and compassion is really important. And it might not be important to refute every single claim, but even being Socratic with like, hey, have we double checked that it's true? Like, I'm seeing all these things, for example, about Bill Gates and how he's given X amount of money to this people, these people who have patented something and now they're gonna make money. And actually, you can that there's a paper trail for. All that and you can look it up, and as soon as you do, you'll find a lot of inaccuracies in the claims being made there. And so there are some things you can point out and be like, hey, let's look this up together. Do we know that that's really true? And and what are we really afraid of if it's true? And trying to get to like the source of people's uncertainty, I think is is really important, and letting them know that you share their fears in general about the situation, but that maybe they're misguided. Like, you know, you're right, we should be a little skeptical of how the pharma industry works. But maybe this isn't the fight that we should be having, maybe it's something else. And so I think with those little little bits of empathy, finding the common ground that that can really help. Um and pointing out some of these persuasive tactics that are being used. A lot of people will try to like make claims of financial, like who has a financial interest? Oh, they're just trying to make money off this vaccine. Well, if you're gonna follow the money, follow it all the way. The Bakersfield dudes, like they run urgent care clinics and had a direct financial incentive and recommending lockdowns end. You know, someone like me, I don't make any money either way, no matter what I say. I'm independent. Like it's I'm kind of screwed either way. So, you know, you might not compare us, but if if you're gonna follow the money, follow it all the way. Who's making money off the outcome of a story? A journalist makes money for writing the story, but not necessarily on what the topic of the story is. Think about things like that a little more deeply. That's a good strategy. Who can stand to make money? Like Judy Mikovitz right now, she just released a book and she's gonna go on a speaking tour once she's allowed. You better believe it. She has a direct financial incentive for being a rogue scientist.
SPEAKER_00This is okay, that's this is good. And I actually feel like as much as this is for our listeners, I personally just needed this pop talk because I feel like I no, but I I do like that you said that it's not your job to convince people, and I feel like I've not like I feel like it's my job for literally no reason to convince people, like you know, just because you you get so mad, and I think you're right. A lot of it has to do with the fact that many people who believe some of these theories it it surrounds public health and being like, no, I shouldn't, I don't need to follow the rules because like you know, it's just like the flu, or this isn't a big deal, or whatever the fuck the theories are. So I guess like I do in a way feel personally attacked because I'm like, you're gonna ruin it for the rest of us, or of course, of course. But maybe it's yeah, I think you're right. I think maybe it's more than that. And I think, I think, I think you're right in that approaching it with the attitude that like we're all scared, you know, this is scary for all of us. And a lot of the need to believe these theories um is out of fear and of wanting this to be simpler than it is, and of wanting a simpler answer. And like, I think something that you say a lot on your social media channels, which I like, is that you know, science is a conversation and it's incremental. So anytime you hear someone say something like, I have the answer, or like, you know, solution that no one's heard of, it's very unlikely that one person on the planet has thought of something that, you know, millions of scientists haven't already negotiated. So like it's hard to and debate is our job.
SPEAKER_01Like we're cool with being told we're wrong. Like that's the most exciting moment. Like we fly to conferences when we're allowed to argue with one another. Like we live for that shit, you know? So we're not afraid of being wrong. We just want to be wrong in a way that we can all learn from, you know? Yeah. It's a difference.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, this has been, I mean, I have a million more questions, but like this is technically a mini sode. So we kind of have to wrap up. Is there anything? So I'm gonna like share all of your amazing links in our show notes. Is there anything, like, anything you want to say that I haven't asked you about that you're like, guys, you need to know this one thing? Anything you want to say?
SPEAKER_01Um just just look out for one another, be compassionate to one another. Don't be afraid to um don't be afraid to to call something out and and let people know if if something they're sharing is problematic. We all have social currency on social media, and the every like, comment, forward, save, any way you interact with any post, even just hovering on it, that changes the way it's gonna get exposed in the algorithm. So you have yeah, absolutely. So you you all have a lot of power, and right now we need grassroots movements to amplify what's gonna actually help us all. And so don't feel powerless. Your age doesn't matter, your number of followers doesn't matter, everyone's input counts for something and use it as best you can. Take breaks from it when you need to as well. It's not a 24-7 job. We all need to take breaks, I take breaks as well. But know that you have the power to make some real change, and it's only gonna happen through us thinking deeply about the way we use the internet and the way we talk to one another on the internet and in person. But if we if we work at it, we can save lives here and we can do some real good and we can go forward having learned some really valuable lessons.
SPEAKER_00I love that. I think it's so important, and I think what you said about compassion is really, really important in doing all of what you just mentioned. So it's true, like instead of attacking someone, maybe go into it with the assumption that like they also are just trying to share information and they happen to believe something that perhaps is erroneous or comes from like, you know, an unreliable source, and like perhaps like you can help them by pointing it out with compassion instead of anger, even though that can be hard to do. Um, so thank you. And I I love that it's true. You do all have social currency. I never even thought about the fact that, like, literally hovering on a post can try, you know, change the trajectory of where that post goes. So thanks. And oh wait, okay, I do have to ask one thing before you go though. Um will taking collagen supplements help my skin. I love that you mentioned it. You do?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. I've got an old post about that, and so does um, I don't know if you follow Lab Muffin Beauty Science, Michelle. She's amazing and she has many posts about it. The short version of it is most of these collagen supplements are unregulated, and so you don't really know what you're taking. It can be scary. It could also have systemic effects when you're ingesting it. It could affect like knees work. We just don't know. So just be careful. Collagen does cool things in the skin. Yes, absolutely. But taking it systemically by eating it, you might want to think twice and make sure you're really confident with the manufacturer. And personally, I don't take it. I'm more of a topical kind of person, you know, just putting it in the world. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00I've literally been taking it for three months straight for my hair growth and have not noticed any difference. So I don't even know what to say.
SPEAKER_01I I'm also, you know, if people want to experiment and they're okay with the risks, that's also cool with me. As long as you know that there are risks anytime you're putting something in your body, even if it's on the collagen's all over your body, so you know, anyways, you know. Oh my god! Overthinking everything. That's me.
SPEAKER_00Okay, um, you are literally the best. Thank you so, so, so much. Um, thank you. Yeah, everyone, go follow Sam on social media right now. I'm gonna say bye to you now, and then I'm gonna just say a little something. So bye.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Bye. Thank you for having me. You're the best. And thank you everyone for listening.
SPEAKER_00Okay, guys. Love you, love you, love you
guys. I think what Sam is doing is amazing. And I hope that this is like the beginning of a world where those in possession of valuable information start feeling responsible for the way they communicate that information. And I also hope that these conversations continue to shed light on why it's so important for us to instill a sense of confidence in kids when it comes to math. Like, more mathematical confidence means less manipulation and better decision making in general, which is super important as we're seeing right now when the science-based decisions people are making literally have the potential to save lives or like not. So, all that to say we need more people like Science Sam in this world. Kind of wish she was my science teacher, seeing as how I passed grade 11 bio with exactly a 50, and we all know what that means. And hence why I'm taking collagen probably fuck. Um, you can check out the amazing Science Sam on Insta at Science.sam, but we're gonna put a link to that and all the other stuff we talked about on our show notes, including that article that someone wrote about her that like got bad press, which ended up being good press because it shone light on how awesome Science Sam is, including all of her debunking videos, well, including that Jay-Z quote, it'll all be in our show notes, uh, which you can find at themathguru.ca slash math therapy. And remember, our first episode of season two comes out June 4th, so stay tuned and get pumped. And of course, stay safe, stay sane, and wash your hands. Okay, bye.