SPEAKER_00

Hi, I'm Vanessa Vicaria, aka the Math Guru, and you're listening to Math Therapy, a podcast that helps guests work through their math traumas one problem at a time. Whether you think you're a math person or not, you're about to find out that math people don't actually exist. But the scars that math class left on many of us definitely do. And don't worry, no calculators or actual math were involved in the making of this podcast. What's up and welcome to this week's episode of Math Therapy. So I'm super excited because today we're talking to one of our tutors here at the Math Guru, Zainab Hussain. And Zaynap is so freaking cool. You guys are gonna love her. She's entering her final year at Ryerson University, where she studies math and economics. And the whole time she's been tutoring here at the Math Guru to gain the experience she needs to pursue her dream of becoming a math teacher. So guys, I have to tell you, Zaynab is one of those tutors that like transforms you. Seriously, I feel like she has a superpower, which is that she can make anyone feel like a math superstar. I've seen it firsthand, and it makes me like almost cry every single time a kid is like, oh my god, I spent the year crying in math class and then I met Zaynab. Well, you guys are in for a treat because today you get to hear about how she legit went from crying her eyes out every day in math class to wanting to be the best math teacher ever. Drum roll, please. No one's giving me a drum roll, so let's do it anyway. Welcome, Zaynab. Thanks, V. Nice to be here. Um, I actually really didn't know you wanted to be a math teacher.

SPEAKER_01

Really? I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_01

Wow, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Is that what you want to do?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, actually, you know, I realized I wanted to be a math teacher after I started working here. Oh my god. So this job made me oh oh my god, this is what I want to do. Really? Yeah. Because I had I was confused as heck. I was like, I had no idea what I want to do at all.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god, okay, well let's backtrack and I'm gonna just ask you. Um, do you what how do you feel do you like math?

SPEAKER_01

I love math. It's literally my favorite thing in the world. After my cat, but you don't.

SPEAKER_00

So tell me, like, let's go back into like little Zaynab history. Like, what was your childhood experience with math? Did you always like it? Like, give me the spill the tea.

SPEAKER_01

So the first time I was ever really experienced or had an experience with math or was introduced to math was in grade one. I had SWIFT schools and um it was like the beginning of the school year, so I was coming into school a little late. And on the first day of school, this was actually grade one. So the first day of school, um, I walked into class and there was a math test, and I was like, I have no idea what math is. I had never learnt it. I was grade one. Kindergarten did not teach me any math. So I was like, K, what is this? What is happening? What is this paper with this two and this cross sign and a two? What does that mean? I I don't know. I thought it was two T two. I was like, what does that mean? Um so I started crying. I like literally just started crying during the test. I was like, hmm, hi. So I just went up to teach her. I was like, it's my first day, like I don't I don't know what this means. Like, what are you asking me? Like, what is this two cross sign two? And she was like, Okay, show me two fingers. And I was like, cool. And then she's like, show me another two fingers on the other hand. I was like, okay, cool. She's like, how many fingers do you have up? I'm like, four. And she's like, exactly. And I'm like, no freaking way. No way. And that was the coolest thing ever. I was like, wow, and she was like, that's what that plus sign means. And then she explained to me um subtraction the same way. She was like, put up two, take those two away. How many do you have? Zero. I was like, whoa, that's so cool. So from that moment, I was like, wow, this is actually really cool. I wanna like know what what this is, what is more of this? Um, so then I went home that day, and I'm pretty sure I thought I had made up the word mathematician. Um, I had never heard that word in my life, but I had said it to my mom. I was like, mom, I want to be a mathematician. She was just like confused as heck. She was like, okay, cool. And yeah, so that was me having my first experience with math.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, amazing. And so from that moment on, you kind of were you just like curious about math? Did you have were there any points along like your little educational path where you reconsidered wanting to be a mathematician?

SPEAKER_01

100%. So I always I always really liked math. I was always good at it. It was always the subject I was strongest in. Um, I just got it right away. But then grade nine came, and I had probably a really not good teacher in grade nine, let me tell you that. Um, she was a grade 12 teacher who was teaching us like we were in grade 12, as if we knew everything. So I was like, okay, cool. Um, she would come to class and just give homework and expect us to know how to do it. She would not teach a single lesson, and I was like, oh, this is what math is in high school. I don't want to do it because no one's teaching me anything, and I don't know what's going on, what is happening. Um, so I was just really, really confused all of grade nine. I got like a 60 something in grade nine math, and that was the lowest mark ever I've gotten in math, and I was just like, wow, me? I got a 60 in math, you're kidding me? And I started crying. I cried to my mom, I was like, Mom, I can't believe this. Math is my favorite subject, and I'm failing it now, and I can't be a mathematician ever again. And she was like, um, no, you're gonna go to tutoring and you're gonna get this mark back up. So I went to tutoring, I got like an 80 in grade 9 math, and I was like, wow, I was like, oh, I can do it. Maybe it's just the teacher, maybe it's not me. So it was just that I hated it because the teacher was making me.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so this is really interesting. So when this was happening, before you saw the tutor and you were like, oh my god, I'm getting a 60, did you any like how did that affect like the way you viewed yourself? Like, did you think it was you?

SPEAKER_01

I did think it was me, like a hundred percent, because I was like, I was like, I've never done this badly. And like I thought it was that I was like, okay, like maybe high school's too hard for me or something like that. I just let it get to me too much. I was like, I can't do this, and that's why I said to my mom, I'm like, mom, like when I get to grade 12, because in grade 12 you don't have to take math, right? It's an option. I was like, mom, when I'm in grade 12, I'm not taking math. And she was like, You're in grade nine, you're not deciding that right now. I was like, no, but seriously, if this is how it's gonna go, I I can't take it. Right, right? So it was it was just a self-doubt thing. I was like, oh, I if this is like in like the first year of high school, it's gonna be like this forever because I'm stupid, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, and how did your mind change after you had a tutor and you got an A B?

SPEAKER_01

So it was I started to believe in myself more because I was like, um, I would tell my like my teacher would like make us do some questions. Like again, we she would just come to class and be like, do this question on the board and be like, but you didn't teach us anything, right? So it was like, what the heck are we doing? So it was more about like one day she um she was calling me out to be like, oh, like, because I was talking in class and she was like, okay, go do this question. And I was like, and at no point the whole year she had done that, and I and if she had done it at any time before I had my tutor, I would have been confused as heck, right? Right? But it was after I got my tutor and I was like, you know what, let's give this a try. Because I so I did it, and she told me the answer was wrong, and I was so confident in myself because it was I almost identical to the question my tutor showed me. So I was like, no, it's not wrong. And I felt confident in myself for the first time answering that question. I was like, it's not wrong, trust me. And she was like, No, it's wrong, no, it wasn't wrong. She was telling me it was wrong. Halfway through lecturing me about how it was wrong, she was like, Oh wait, never mind, you got it right. And I was like, cool. I was, and then that was like, oh, okay, I'm not stupid. I am actually very good at math. Some people just mess up and try to make you feel bad about it. Wow. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so you had actually mentioned earlier um that being kid like you know, thinking you were good at math from such a young age made you feel like you could do anything. Yeah. Can you like tell me a bit about that? Like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_01

So m it's it's more about like the fact that math is so like omnipresent and so ubiquitous, just everywhere, right? Everything has math as a building block, right? Physics is math, physics is the world, right? So math is the world. So it's like if you can do math, you can apply that to any aspect of life, you can apply it to anywhere, you can apply it to in any field of work. So that's what I meant by it. I can do anything because I can do math.

SPEAKER_00

So why do you think that like why do you think people who can do like who are really good with words, let's say, or like really good at art, why do you think they don't have that same feeling? Like I've never met somebody, like it's very strange. Like, I guess where I'm getting is, and we're gonna get into all the students you've taught before, but I find when people are bad at math or they see themselves as bad at math, they think they're stupid. Just like you just actually said, right? You were saying, like, you know, when you were doing bad at math, you were like, I'm just stupid. You didn't say to yourself, Oh, I'm bad at math, or I'm bad at this particular math concept, all of a sudden you generalized it to I'm stupid. Whereas now you're saying because you're good at math, you're smart generally at everything. So why do you think that's so specific to math? Like, why don't you think it's the same with other subjects?

SPEAKER_01

It's because math is known to be one of the harder subjects, right? So if you feel like you're bad at a hard subject, you must be stupid, right? That's not true. It's just that's not your forte, right? But a lot of people they don't realize that, especially when that are younger age, they don't realize, oh hey, like just because I'm not good at this one thing, but I am good at this other thing, that's totally fine. But because younger people don't have the oh, what am I good at? What am I good at, they don't know that yet. The second they get the oh, like I've like, am I allowed to swear? Yeah, yeah, you can The second like you fuck up on the second you fuck up on something like that that's like really complicated and really advanced, because math is really complicated and advanced. You think because you can tackle the advanced problem that you must be an idiot. That's what it is. It's that you feel like you can't do something hard, so you must be stupid.

SPEAKER_00

So do you think math is really complicated, actually? I'm actually curious because I get I get asked this question a lot. People are always like, why is math the thing people struggle with? Why is there so much emotional attachment to it? Why is math so hard for people? And I'm actually curious to know your question. Like, is math hard? Like, is grade six math hard?

SPEAKER_01

The only way I can answer that, I can give you a definitive answer. The reason is it's relative. When you are in grade six and it's brand new to you, of course it's hard. Anything brand new to you, you're just like, I just learned this, I don't you don't grasp something like right away. Some people do, which is great, some people don't, and that's okay, right? But when something is new, it's hard. But when you've been like for me, I'm in university now and I study like high, high-level math, like university level math. So obviously to me, I'm gonna say grade six math is easy. But I'm if I was in grade six, I would not say that. I wouldn't be like, oh, this is easy. Like, it's already, it's it's all about where you are and in life. No, where you are in your math career and talk and what point of your math career you're talking about. If you're in grade eight and you're you're gonna say grade six math is easy. If you're in grade eight, you're gonna say grade eight math is not easy.

SPEAKER_00

But so people say, um, and like a lot of kids will say that like, you know, wherever le whatever level they're at, most kids that I talk to that don't like math, which is most kids, yeah, will say it's really hard.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, but if you it's it's again You think it's hard just because it's something new? I think it's hard because something new. Because if I I've asked this so many of my students, I'll like they'll be like, oh my god, grade 12 is so hard, like while they're in grade 12, right? And they're doing like these asymptotes and math on all these like rational functions in me and stuff. And then I've actually asked a couple of my students and I'm like, what do you think of grade nine math now? They're like, oh my god, that's so easy. Why? Because the rest is me, I totally got it. So that's why I mean it's all relative. Like, you'll find math hard that year, but anything previous, you'll be like, Oh, because you've learned something harder. So when you know something, when you've learned something harder, you think something easier is in fact.

SPEAKER_00

So why do you think though math gets this? Like, let's go back to the fact that you were saying um when people feel inherently stupid or smart, it has to do with the fact that math is known as a hard subject. So if you do well in a hard subject, you feel really powerful. And if you do poorly in a hard subject, you feel like a failure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But why is math harder than like history or geography or English? Like, why is that known as a harder subject?

SPEAKER_01

Actually, um, to me, history is a hard subject.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And like um anything to do with words is a hard subject. English is a hard subject for me, right? So it just depends person to person, right? If you're stronger in something else, you you and like if you're some people are are writers, right? Some people like words, some people are visual learners, some people are uh auditory learners, right? Math is a very like not hands-on, but very you gotta practice at it kind of thing, right? Some people are naturally good at writing, it just it kind of just flows with them, right? You don't really have to some people don't really have to practice at it, and it just kind of just they can write a beautiful essay within like two hours or something, right? I can't write a beautiful essay, give me a year and I will never be able to do that. Like that's not happening, right? So it's more about like how do we want to word this? Mmm I lost my three and a five.

SPEAKER_00

No, but it is really I I do think it's like a really interesting question, and really I'm just curious what you think generally, because I think it's when people are like, well, math is hard, math is hard. I'm always like, I mean, if you were taught math properly and learned it, I think one thing is math is cumulative.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

Right? So it's easy to miss a step with math and be screwed on the next step.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00

But if you technically think about it, if you were a lot, if you were taught everything from the very beginning from a with a very good teacher and you practiced, would it really be that hard? I don't think so. I don't think so because going to university and doing complex stuff. I mean, that's the same in any subject. Yeah. But I'm just talking about general elementary and high school math. How hard is it really?

SPEAKER_01

It's not. It's like it honestly depends on how you're being taught it and who is teaching it to you.

SPEAKER_00

Right, like you said in grade nine, it was super hard and you hated it when literally the year before you were on top of the world and thought you were great, and that all had to do with the teacher.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly, 100%. And it's the same thing with my students as well. It's like they'll come in and be like, why do you make this seem so easy? Why does my teacher just not explain it? Like, so it's it is a matter of explanation. I don't think math is hard. Well, because I'm a math major, but I also don't think it's hard if you're explained if it correctly. Right. You know, right? Um, like if you have someone explaining to explaining something to you properly with like patience and understanding, and not like just being like, hey, just know this or whatever, and they need to explain to you the reasoning behind why you need to know this, or the reasoning behind why what's happening is happening, right? Right. Um, a lot of teachers don't do that, right? A lot of a lot of my students they understand the math and they they find it easier once I explain the theory behind it to them. I'm like, they're like, why do I do this? And I'm like, okay, let me tell you why you do this, and they're like, oh, that makes so much sense. Right. And then they start applying it. It's all about like a lot of people need things that they can apply things to. A lot of people think that math is not applicable, even though it is, right? So that's also the reason people, I guess, find it quote unquote hard.

SPEAKER_00

Right, because it's just so abstract and random.

SPEAKER_01

It's exactly so abstract. But like stuff like history, you can apply it a little more, right? You can apply like science a little more and stuff, right? Right? So people find those generally a little easier. Like science is still a little hard, but like people would do way some some of my students are super amazing in bio, but like not very good in math at all. Right. And I'm the complete opposite. I've got like a 49 in bio outside high school, right? So it's like it's all about like how you learn. You people want to apply things, right? If you can't see a way, if you can't see yourself applying this, you're gonna find it like it's useless. It's more about you find it useless and then you're like, this is useless, and I can't do it, and it's hard. Exactly. What's the point?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so let's so first, okay, before we get just start talking about your students, because I really want to hear about like what you're seeing in your students and what strategies you use, but I wanted to just ask you do you think um being good at math and kind of being confident with your math ability most of your life has affected your confidence at all? Like as a person, like forget math, like just the way you approach life. Do you think it plays a role or like not really?

SPEAKER_01

Definitely, definitely. Definitely, definitely. Um I feel like because math is so abstract, right? It's very I feel like you need to have like very developed thinking because like of like math, right? So it's like I f I feel like I can think on a different like I don't want to say a higher level, but I think I want to say a different level than most people, right? Or like just people who just don't like math, or I can see things in multiple ways because with math, there's not just one right solution, right? There's maybe there's one right answer, but there's multiple ways to get to that answer, right? So there's multiple solutions. So I feel like um like it has made me better with like problem solving and like seeing multiple angles and like being able to just take a step back and like see things from like all different angles and see stuff from the an outside perspective, right? So it's like built up my confidence in that way where I feel like I'm a little more like able to like just see things for I don't know, I don't know how to say it. Like, I'm no that makes sense. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I'm able to see that-cause you kind of have like a really unique and like larger perspective. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

And and because I know that it gives me like this boost of oh, like it's more of like a leadership thing, right? It's like, oh, like I feel like because I can see things in like multiple ways, I feel like I should take control of this situation or I should be the leader over here because I can I see a bunch of I see multiple routes that we could take. Right. So that's what I mean. Like, it's like a confidence boost in like a leadership kind of way. It like puts you in that leadership role because you're like, oh, like I feel like because your thinking is more developed, you would want a person with a higher level of thinking to be the leader.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean? Yeah, well, this is like actually so fascinating because um you obviously know this about me, but I give tons of talks about encouraging women to see themselves as mathematicians, and I've never actually thought about it that way before, but I mean, most women I meet are not confident with math, and I don't know what I'm even like I'm forming the thought as I'm saying it, but we're we're really in a point in time where we're trying to encourage women to feel confident in leadership roles, and I've never thought of math as perhaps that connecting force. Like I always say being good at math makes you more confident simply because believing you're bad at something, whether it's math or anything else, makes you less confident, and that sucks, right? But that's a really, really interesting way to look at it that math gives you the confidence to be a leader because you feel like you have multiple ways of solving a problem and you can handle adversity. That's really fucking cool.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks, girl.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, why don't we talk about the students you tutor? So tell me how they see themselves in terms of like the spectrum of math ability and confidence.

SPEAKER_01

So a lot of my students are not confident with math, and it's because but the thing is like a lot of my students they get the confidence when I help them because, like, like I said, my students are like they're like, Oh, why do you explain it so much better? Like, why do you make it seem so much easier, right? So I think a lot of my students come to me going like having like a definitive, like, okay, I can't do this, this is not for me. But what I see is like once I start explaining it, they start being more open-minded about it. Not like, yeah, definitely a math person, or yeah, love math or something. They're more open to it. They're like, oh, it's not that bad. You know, it's more about that. It's not more, it's not like oh, I like this or I don't like that. It's like, oh, it's not as bad as I thought it was, like, it's not as hard as I thought it was. Because it's just like I said, you just need someone to explain it to you properly, and you're just like, yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_00

Have you had um any like you know, transformative stories about students who came in here thinking they weren't math people? I'm using air quotes because you know I hate the term math people, um, and who left with it, you like thinking that that was bullshit and being like, oh my god, I'm perfectly capable of doing math.

SPEAKER_01

Um, not so much as they became like quote unquote math people or something like that. They became more confident in themselves, right? And they became more just they just they just started believing in themselves more, right? And more like, hey, like maybe this is for me or kind of thing, right? It's more like I've seen a student go from like a 50% or like a 48 to like a 75 or like an 80.

SPEAKER_00

And how much do you think attitude has to do with that?

SPEAKER_01

100%. All of it is attitude. All of it. If you have no desire to learn, if you have no desire to get better, if you have no desire to actually improve in any way, what are you doing it for?

SPEAKER_00

Right? There's and like it's all attitude. So, and in like let's talk a bit about, you know, like we have a lot of students here, and like, you know, this is happening a lot now where so many young people have anxiety and have a lack of confidence and self-worth, and a lot of it is tied to education. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on that? Do you have any students that like have anxiety? Like, how have you seen that play out in math?

SPEAKER_01

I have some students that have like dealt with quite a bit of anxiety. Like, I actually had a student that just she she started crying like one time, like while we were doing like some math homework, and it's because her her exam was the next day, right? And there was it was just she was getting everything, everything was totally fine, right? Just one question. She blanked on it and she started crying. And I was like, Okay, like, it's it's just one question.

SPEAKER_00

So how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_01

Like, I just tell her, I was like, I just state what has already happened. I'm like, you l we literally just did 20 questions, you got them all right, and you got one question wrong. What is wrong with that? And then she was like, you know what? You're right. Like that was it's not that bad, right? It's like just take a step back. Just like if you not everyone knows everything, right? So not everyone's gonna be like, oh yeah, 100%, got it right away. Right. Right? Like, people get stuff wrong. You don't let that get to you, right? She had a lot of anxiety. Like, it was even in like her private notes. It's like she gets anxious if she gets a question wrong, right? Um, and like I saw that play out in front of me, she just started crying, and I was like, I was like, why are you getting anxious about this? Like you got 20 out of 21 right.

SPEAKER_00

Like that's Do you feel like they're the expectations on kids are unrealistically high? Like, do you feel like that contributes at all to the anxiety around math or expectations coming from who though?

SPEAKER_01

Like parents or like school? Or what do you think?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know even. I mean, maybe kids even their expectations of themselves, because I find um a lot of the anxiety around math has to do with grades.

SPEAKER_01

It does. 100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_00

It's because like there's nothing wrong with getting a 75 at math. 100%. There's nothing. Like that means you know three quarters of the stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, my students like they'll come and be like, oh, I didn't do I did 70, I thought it was 75, and I'm like, what? Like that's pretty good. Like, and it's just these kids, they don't realize that you need progress over perfection.

SPEAKER_00

So, in terms of students feeling anxious, I mean, I know here we see a lot of students who literally come to us, not even because they're bad at math. We have a lot of students who come who are getting 90s, but they are anxious about math. Can you like, what is that about?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's more about like I know exactly what you're talking about. I have one student, she gets she gets like not high 90s on RITS, but every time she comes here, she's just freaking out to me. And I'm just like, Why? It I actually that's one thing I still haven't been able to grasp. It's we can talk about it. We could talk about why it's like we just brainstorm right now. Why? But I like it it's a question that even I've asked myself.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I have a lot of theories. Yeah. Um, my first question I would ask, and I don't know how many boys you tutor, actually.

SPEAKER_01

I have quite a few boys, actually.

SPEAKER_00

So, okay, so uh my first theory about this is that uh girls feel like they are not innately capable at math most of the time. So even if girls are getting 90s in math, they never feel like they know math. Whereas you can take a guy getting a way lower grade who is way more confident in his math.

SPEAKER_01

I've seen that. I've seen that a lot. Like this is the same student I was telling you about who gets like high 90s, like it's she's a girl, right? And she I actually recall her telling me about this one guy in her class who gets like the same marks as her, and she's like, but he's so much smarter. Oh my god! And I'm like, what are you what do you mean he's so much smarter? Have you asked her who the girl? What did she say? She like I like I literally asked her, I was like, what what the fuck do you mean? Like you got the exact same mark as him. And then she's like, it's like nobody.

SPEAKER_00

But he doesn't have to try. What did she say? What'd she say?

SPEAKER_01

She lit she does, she was like, he doesn't try, like he just gets like good babies. And then she and then she started going off. I don't know like how relevant this was, but she was like, you know, and he's from like like like India, and like his parents are really strict and stuff, and like make him do a lot of work and everything. And I was like, I don't think that has anything to do with this.

SPEAKER_00

So like Indian is an artist. Actually, sorry, it's not Indian. Oh my god, we're gonna have to delete this now. That sounds horrible. I'm Indian, it's cool.

SPEAKER_01

But yeah, she was like, Oh yeah, like he's Indian and he's like really smart. And I was like, first all reason it has nothing to do with how smart you can or cannot be, okay? So like just compare yourself. We're like, I'm a girl, so I'm automatically stupider. I'm white, so I'm automatically stupider. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, but see, this is like she's stereotyping herself. And I'm like, what is happening? See, this is it. So I mean, I've I have we could make a whole podcast about this because I've done a lot of research about this, because this is what my master's was about.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But boys are taught that they're inherently smart. Girls are taught they have to work to be intelligent.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Which would be fine, except for some reason we don't equate hard work with intelligence. We equate it with stupidity and having to work to be smart. But it's so fucked because it's like you're not like popped out of the womb knowing what a derivative is. You obviously have to learn it at some point. You have to work. So I find this a lot. I parents will often call me and say, Well, my son, he's naturally good at math, he's getting a 90, my daughter's getting a 90, but she has to work for it. And I'm always like, What? So she is good, like, what does that even mean? So, okay, so that's my first theory. That's my first theory. My second theory is just the a totally different theory, which is the I mean, maybe she's freaking, but it doesn't sound like it, but maybe she's just constantly freaking out because the expectation of grades is so high, like she needs a fucking 96 to get into Queen's Commerce or whatever. Like that could be it. But I really think that boys do not freak out in the same way. Now, this is not to say that boys don't have anxiety over math, because they do, yeah. But I think that there is an inherent disadvantage because girls are taught from a young age that they need to work hard to get to where a guy already is.

SPEAKER_01

Oh god, I God, I have this long story to tell you more. Grade 12, calculus teacher. We started learning vectors, and the day we started vectors, we finished calculus, she was like, Okay, now we're going on to vectors. She was like, Late she she's a woman. Okay, she's a woman herself. And she was like, ladies, let me tell you the guys are gonna do better in this movie. Because girls are known to not have a as good as a spatial representation as men do. So that and then she went on about she's like, and then she's like, and that's why girls can't read maps. And I was like, No, she fucking didn't. She said that. And first of all, I have the best internal GPS in my entire family. I know I can read a map, I 100% can. I got the highest mark in my calculus class for vectors, I got a higher mark than all the guys. So I'm like, what are you going on about? And it it pissed me off that she said that. And it's funny because I think that actually motivated me to be like, you know what? I'm gonna prove you wrong. And I proved her wrong. But it was so like, I can't believe this is what you're starting off with.

SPEAKER_00

And so vectors know Zainab is young, so this wasn't like in 1962.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, this was like Four years ago. Four years ago. Five years ago.

SPEAKER_00

Five years ago. Oh my god. Oh my god, that's crazy. Well, okay, so I mean, just to circle back, that whole idea of like, because I find that the most shocking is when people carry around this weight about math, despite the fact that they're even good enough. It's one thing when someone's had like this traumatic experience and they're not good at math and whatever, and like they, you know, don't really get it. That's one thing, and that's a whole other thing. But when you're good at math but still carry around this whole weird thing about not being good at it, that's just when things get really fucked up. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, so now we're getting to the point where I'm gonna ask you the two questions we ask everyone on the podcast. So the first is what would you say to someone who doesn't think they're a math person? These words did not register in my head. What did you just say?

SPEAKER_01

No, we don't say words like this. And just like um when my students come to me and go like, oh yeah, I I have no idea what's going on. I'm like, well, that's gonna change in like about 20 minutes. Just watch, okay? Like, I just tell them like whatever you're saying is just wrong right now. And I'm gonna change that opinion very, very fast, okay? Like, it's not that is not happening today.

SPEAKER_00

I wish you were my tutor when I was failing that.

SPEAKER_01

A lot of my friends have said that to me. They're like, I wish you were my tutor in high school.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, I was with you in high school.

SPEAKER_01

I needed a tutor myself.

SPEAKER_00

So, what are some strategies you use if a kid comes to you and has kind of carried around this burden of feeling like they're not a math person or that they're never gonna get it?

SPEAKER_01

So I I don't sugarcoat things. I go, like, you know what? Like, if math's not your thing, it's not your thing. But that doesn't mean you're not a math person, right? You don't have to like, like, and I always give the example of you. I'm like Aness. Oh failed math many times.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, well twice, not many.

SPEAKER_01

Multiple times. So twice. Um Jenna's the one that failed three times. But yes, so like you and Jenna both, I give examples of it, right? So it's like, it's like, okay, are you do you seriously like think you can't be a math person? Look at Vanessa. Like, she failed that twice, and she runs the best tutoring studio studio in the GTA.

SPEAKER_00

This is a lot of flottery.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I also work there, you know, myself as well. So yeah. Um, but yeah, so it's like I just give them an example of it. I was like, look, like you're in the same boat that these people are in. Right. Like it's fine. And then I tell them, like, some of my students come to me in grade nine, they're like, oh my god, I'm getting a 75. I was like, yeah, I was getting a 60 in grade nine, so and I'm here now.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

So it's not even I like tell them, hey, like, no, you're a math person. It's it's just I give them an example. I'm like, of someone who's exactly in your same boat and looked where they are now.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, you're gonna you you like again, it's all relative. You're thinking it's really hard now, just wait in a couple of years you'll be like, so easy. I get this. 30%. Right?

SPEAKER_00

Um, and what is one thing you would change about how math is taught?

SPEAKER_01

I would change the fact that when some teachers, I've actually seen this happen, they will start teaching a topic and be like, oh, this is hard. So like, oh yeah. I'm like, do not do that. You will freak them out every time I teach anything, even if it's the hardest thing in all of grade 12, I'll be like, don't wait, trust me, it's really easy. Right? That will be the that will make them oh okay, okay, yeah, like I have an open mind, I can try it, right? But if you start off with okay, this is really hard, so pay attention, it's like that's gonna scare the living crap out of the kid. Right. Okay, that is not how to start teaching any topic at all. You don't just start off with, hey, this is hard, so you're all screwed. Like you don't say that. So that's one thing I would definitely change. The attitude that teachers present about a specific math.

SPEAKER_00

Love it.

SPEAKER_01

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

That's me applauding. Okay, so now we're at the point of the podcast where I am going to give you your math therapy prescription. So I'm gonna prescribe you something that you have to do. I mean, you don't really need math therapy, you give math therapy, which I think is really, really awesome. So, what I am gonna get you to do is write a letter. Okay? I want you to write a letter. It can be short because I know you don't love words or essays, but a quick letter or like a text message you would write to someone who texted you. I'm not a math person.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Will do? Yeah. 100%. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_01

I'm gonna save that as a template. If anyone ever does that, I will send that exact thing to them.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, amazing. So we're gonna follow up with you to make sure you do your homework and do your prescription so that you can save all the people out there that need that math therapy. Amazing. This has been honestly really, really fascinating. And it was so, so great to have you. Everyone, Zaynap Hussein, the math tutor slash teacher who is going to save the world. Woo! Thanks for coming. Thanks, B. Ugh, Unreal. Love this gal so much. I think it's so important to know that even though we don't have control over so many things like you can't control who your teacher is or what society tells you about your own math ability, that we do have control over attitude, and that can actually make the biggest difference. Such an empowering episode. I hope you guys are feeling it. I'm sure you all want to see the results of Zaynab's prescription because I bet like all of you, me included, need a kick in the ass in the form of a text message that reminds us that we are all math people. You can find that on our show notes at themathguru.ca slash math therapy, where we put all additional episode info every single week. Remember to follow us on all social media at the math guru for more math therapy, where we post extra episode-related content every single week as well. And of course, a reminder that math therapy is hosted by me, Vanessa Vicaria, produced by Sabina Wex, and edited by David Kochberg. And of course, our theme song is Waves by Goodnight Sunrise, my band. And guys, if you know someone who needs math therapy or just needs to hear someone else getting math therapy, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please share this podcast and write me a review on iTunes. Those two things make such a big difference. I am so determined to change the culture surrounding math, and I really need your help. So spread the word. That's all for this week, and stay tuned for next week because guys, I don't know how this happens so fast. It's actually going to be our season finale. As sad as I am, I am so excited for you guys to hear next week's guest because he is one of my absolute favorite humans on the planet. Until then, see you next Thursday.