SPEAKER_02

Hi, I'm Vanessa Vicaria, aka the Math Guru, and you're listening to Math Therapy, a podcast that helps guests work through their math traumas one problem at a time. Whether you think you're a math person or not, you're about to find out that math people don't actually exist. But the scars that math class left on many of us definitely do. And don't worry, no calculators or actual math were involved in the making of this podcast. Okay guys, so let me tell you something about today's guest. So a few months ago, I'm just like chilling and I get this email from a woman saying she's older and has always hated math, has failed a million times, but had heard me speak on the radio and decided she was ready to go back and learn all of math. Not like, oh, I want to brush up on my math, but like, let's do all of high school math. And I was like, um, what? Who is this woman? I need to meet her. So turns out Ivano Sandu is the owner of Reflexology in Xiao Tzu, Toronto. And I am proud to say that she is now a student here at the Math Guru, and she is one of the coolest people I know, and I can't wait for you to hear this episode. Also, disclaimer, this is not a John Mighton fangirl episode, even though it might sound like one. And also, John Mighton, if you're listening, holla at your gals. Alright, everyone, without further ado, Ivana Sandu. So, what's really interesting is the way I know Yvonne is she actually contacted us at the math guru about wanting to learn math as an adult. And actually, um, that request is more common than a lot of people think, but usually when people come contact us about it, they're like, This is really weird. Do you do this? So you were one of those people, but your story is especially interesting because you told us that you wanted to learn like all of math.

SPEAKER_00

Take me from zero to whatever.

SPEAKER_02

To the sky's the limit. Yeah. So that's really, really cool. So I want to just start by asking you, I guess, like, I mean, obviously, a brief history of your history of math is a pretty large question, but why don't you just tell us some stuff? Like, tell us what you told me even when you signed up.

SPEAKER_00

Um, more about wanting to empower myself, and I feel like math is an empowering element. Um, and it's been fear-based for so long that even thinking about doing math invoke a degree of withdrawal and repulsion and fear and repulsion of things. Like, no, but I've lived long enough and I've been attempted get to get better at this long enough to know that there's something there that um that is catching me that I need to get a hold of. I I know how to read, I know how to write a bit, and the missing element is math, and I feel like math is really a thing that makes you overcome.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. I love it. So, okay, let's go back into like your childhood. Like, tell me how your experience of math has been up to this point. Like as a young you.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I don't you see, I don't remember as a young me. It's like I don't even remember how I learned to write, read, or write. I really don't. It was expected, you go to school. But it wasn't until here in Canada that I remember having this just fear that this is something that I can't do. It doesn't make sense. It's not computing, it's not I can't go from A to B, it doesn't make sense. But it doesn't feel like um incapable of doing it. I just feel like I need to learn the way to do it, and that's the missing piece. I don't feel like it was a taught right. Generally, I feel like teaching, as honorable as a profession that it is, doesn't always catch everybody. And so I missed something. And every time prior to um a few years ago, I've made an attempt to to go, I always feel belittled. I always feel, you don't know this? It's like I don't. And so it's just shame. All those all those emotions come up when I'm when I've I've tried. And so it's like I'm not gonna be able to learn this under these conditions.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Well, I love okay, so I love this whole approach because as you know, this podcast is math therapy, and the reason I started it is because so many people have math trauma or like have these feelings of shame and failure and like incapability associated with math. But what usually happens is that shuts them off, and what usually the result is I'm incapable of math, and that's the end of the story, and I'm never going to be able to do it. And then not only does that carry, you know, does that get carried with somebody, but they carry it into other aspects of their life. But with you, what's so unique is what you just said, which is like you just said, I'm not gonna be able to learn math under these conditions. Not I'm not gonna be able to learn math. So I want to know what like it is so interesting that you're so passionate about learning it, and you've never at any point felt that this is like your identity or you can't do something. So why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00

You know what? I gotta be honest with you, it's other people.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, yeah, tell me.

SPEAKER_00

So when I heard you on the radio, I was like, oh. My ears peeked up, and when you said you failed a couple of times, it's like, okay, I need to know who this person is. Oh my god. So that was you before you, there was a guy named John Mighton. John Mighton, yeah. And I think it was him that made me.

SPEAKER_02

By the way, I've been trying to have coffee with him forever. Maybe email me back, John Mighton. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you well, you guys should be, yeah, for sure. Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, I'm just go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

So I think it was his book that turned the page for me. But I read his book, I was working at Parent Book, which is an amazing bookstore in Toronto, and there was a book on the shelf called The Myth of Ability, and I flipped through it, and I couldn't stop. And as I read through this book, and then he gave the formula for teaching math, which is what which is which is something that he had to create in order to um to teach children. So half of the book was talking about how we got there, and the other half was the the curriculum, which I thought was amazing for somebody to say, Here it's what it is, so that anybody can do it. It's accessible. So that was a shining day for me. And I went to see him speak, and I brought my son with me. And that was also something that made me like, okay, this is really something I have to take on. That experience of of taking my son to see him was like, yeah, this is a lifelong thing for me. I gotta do this. I really have to do this. And I bought his book, his later on he um he put out workbooks, and I bought all of them. Uh and I became a uh a member of um Oh my god, John Mighton's greatest fan. Yeah, very much so. Very much so. Yeah, so that was really it was him that that turned the page, and then when I heard you, it was for sure that this is something that's possible. Now I have I know people in the world that's doing this, that is making it possible for people like me to a little bit at a time get there.

SPEAKER_02

So this okay, so you get his workbook and you start you start working through them. Oh yeah. I work through his workbook.

SPEAKER_00

I still have them. I don't know if they are in my house now, but I still have them. Okay. Um and And how far did you get? Uh I I just I just did it as uh as one would do a puzzle. Right. Just go through them, go through them, go through them, you know, take a few minutes, go through them. Um one of the things I remember is how he taught the nine times table. And it's like, I remember the nine times table as a kid being challenging.

SPEAKER_02

Wow wow, that's my favorite one. What did he do?

SPEAKER_00

So nine times one.

SPEAKER_02

So the sum Yes Okay, say I always have trouble explaining it too.

SPEAKER_00

So the sum of the two numbers that you multiply by will always add up to nine. So nine times one is nine, nine times two is eighteen, eight plus one is nine. Is that times three is twenty seven, two nine, seven plus two is nine. And so that was so exciting to me because it's like patterns, it allows you to see patterns in numbers, which are which for me just widen your lens of seeing and being in the world. Because if you can see this pattern here, you can see patterns uh elsewhere. And so you start to think your mind starts to be trained by doing this, which for me is so exciting because it's something that you can do, like if somebody teaches you that, that's something that you'll have forever. You can't undo that, right?

SPEAKER_02

Like it's not like memorizing. By the way, on a side note, and maybe we might take a video of this later, do you know the nine times table hand track?

SPEAKER_00

No.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god. Okay, so that's what we're gonna take a video of. I'm gonna teach you the coolest thing about that. You're gonna freak out. You're literally gonna freak out. Okay, so the patterning thing is really interesting because I always find um one of the biggest questions obviously everyone asks in math is when are we ever gonna use this? Blah, blah, blah. And I always say that that's never a question we should be asking because you're not gonna be necessarily walking down the street, you know, multiplying everything by nine. Maybe you are, whatever. But that idea of training your brain to see patterns or to problem solve in ways that you wouldn't problem solve in if you didn't know mathematical concepts, that's what it's teaching you, right? It's like going to the gym. Like when you work out and you lift weights, are you walking up and down the street doing bicep curls? No, but now you have a stronger arm to do everything else with. So that's really cool. I I really like talking about math that way. So now your goal is you don't want to just be kind of doing math here and there. You actually want to finish the whole high school curriculum. And what made you want to do that?

SPEAKER_00

Again, it's um it's it's for me, it's a life skill. Um, and there's certain life life skills that I have, and there's certain life skills that I don't have, and there's some that I want to get, and there's some it's like, eh, I don't ever want to do that. I don't need to be doing that. Like, I'd love to sew as a life skill, but it's like, yeah, I don't really have to do that.

SPEAKER_02

Um Yeah, I just I got kicked out of a beginner sewing class once. Like I couldn't even thread the sewing machine, right? It was hard. Well, and I also like it was so embarrassing. I feel like this is how people feel about math. Like they were like, I don't think this class is for you. And I was like, but it's the beginner class. She was like, Yeah. And I was like, okay, I guess we'll think of that.

SPEAKER_00

But you see what what's behind that is you don't have a f a fear of failure. And I think a fear of failure is a very limiting thing versus, you know, I'd like to do that, but I don't think I I I don't have time. I'm not gonna tingle. Right. But this is something that's important. I think I want to learn. There's lots of things that I didn't learn as a young person that little bit by little bit of my life I'm gaining. I didn't learn to I didn't learn to ride a bike until I was 52. What? Oh, I know. So it's that kind of thing, right? So and you decided to learn how to ride a bike? What did you do? I got a guy who knew how who was a who had a bike shop. And what happened? And he taught me how to ride a bike. And was it fun? It was fearful and it was fun and now I ride my bike. I didn't ride my bike here because it's too hot, but I ride my bike.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, riding a bike in Toronto really terrifies me. I don't know if you should do it.

SPEAKER_00

Uh no, I do. I rode my bike.

SPEAKER_02

You use the bike hats, please.

SPEAKER_00

I do. But I also, you know, I I let cars go by because they're bigger than me. Right. So I but I learned to ride a bike. And so there's a number of things in life is that before I die, I want to do a little check mark beside them. This is just the coolest. What else is on this list? Well, driving.

SPEAKER_02

Driving, okay, swimming.

SPEAKER_00

Swimming, I'm like, uh I'm not sure I'm gonna do it. I'm still very fearful of water, and I've taken many lessons, and I'm willing to My mom also is very scared of swimming and doesn't know how to swim. And I was born I was born in an island.

SPEAKER_02

But where where were you born? Jamaica. But I've heard that okay, this is a random, we don't need to include this, but I've heard that most Jamaicans don't know how to swim. Why is that actually?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's a survival. I think it's a survival thing. I was surrounded by water. But as a very young age, don't go near the water. Right? That's the lesson. Don't go near the water. Because the incidents of drowning young kids are are plenty, but I've been researching that. I've literally been researching that. Nobody put it together that if you teach them how to swim, then they won't be so um, they won't get lost and they'll know what to do. So they don't they don't the thing is stay away from the water. But kids by nature love water. So we used to go in the water all the time, but none of us knew how to swim.

SPEAKER_02

So fascinating. This is the same thing with India. Like I noticed when I was in India, I was like, no one knows how and most Indians do not know how to swim.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

But they're surrounded by water.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's uh it's uh I want to say utilitarian you use it, there's a use to it, you use it, and then you go on your way. So we use water for we we went to wash our our clothes in the river. Um so suffice it to say there's a number of things that I want to do that I don't yet have as a skill and it's okay.

SPEAKER_02

Swimming, driving, a lot of modes of transportation here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. What else do you think? Again, freedom, right?

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Freedom and yeah, for sure, driving. And um and math is another one.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so let's talk about math then. So your journey with math is your your goal right now is to learn the whole curriculum.

SPEAKER_00

Right. If I get through the high school curriculum from basic to to advanced, I'm good. Once I finish that, then I can dis like I can decide where I want to go with it. But it just feels like something that I need to do.

SPEAKER_02

And what so you mentioned that you find math empowering. I find it very empowering.

SPEAKER_00

And and if you want to know what I'm gonna do it at the end, what I would love to do is to teach other kids math. Oh my god, I love it. Like just as a volunteer, just come one day we're like that just feel like that's that to me. Because it I I really think it's an empowering force. Like inaccessibility to math locks you out of so much of life. And I think it is just wrong. I think that you get a kid in grade three, they don't know the basics, like grade one and two, you don't stop until they do without making them feel bad, without making them feel dumb. It's just like this is a skill that you're gonna need for the rest of your life. Let's just figure out how to do it. And see how you've got it all set up like this, it's like this is how math should be taught. It shouldn't be mean and like uh you shouldn't feel like the person standing over you either judging you or they're gonna strap you, which is which is the image that I have in my head with math. And knuckle on the uh ruler on the knuckle. I don't know, but that's the image I have in my mind. That's so interesting.

SPEAKER_02

But it is a very stereotypical image. So yeah, I actually I mean, I had a math teacher who was amazing, she's my favorite math teacher of our best friends, and she used to hit my desk with a meter stick, but in a joking fun way. I think to almost mock that image, right? But she was doing it in an encouraging way, like you can do it, smack, smack, smack. Yeah, that's different, yeah, totally different intent. So now what math is empowering, it's so interesting because I find often when we talk about math as empowering and this idea of locking out, we talk about it to kids like, oh well, you're not gonna be able to get such and such a job, and like the world is gonna be so mean and scary and technological, and you won't be able to survive in it. Right, and they don't care. And A, they don't care. Right. But B, what's actually what I think you're I think you're talking about and what I like to talk about is it locks you out in terms of really realizing your potential to do anything. Right? Like it's like if you feel in grade two that you're incapable of doing math, this big thing called math, what else can't you do? And that's what you had mentioned. So tell me a bit about like that feeling.

SPEAKER_00

It's a shrinking feeling. It's a it's a diminishing, you you feel like your capacity is limited. And the the further you go on in school and the less math that you have, there's this sense that that there is a um hierarchy. Those of us who can and those of us who can't. Those of you who can't. There's there's there's this separation, this this you can't do it, so therefore you're not part of. And the way it's I I think the way it's taught, just reinforce that. This is not for you. Perhaps you should take this.

SPEAKER_02

Yes, oh my god, did you hear that on that?

SPEAKER_00

I did, I felt or or or I felt it. Right. Either way, it just felt like, oh god, this is I gotta drop out. I can't. This is not. And I've taken it many times, and and every year I think it's gonna be different, and it's the same, so I drop it. It's like that's not.

SPEAKER_02

And what do you mean you've taken it many times? Like in your adult life?

SPEAKER_00

Oh god! I've taken that so many times. When I look at my my um transcript, oh god, I've dropped it so many times. It's embarrassing. But I've learned to just live with it. It's like, you know what? This is my um, this is my like your journey. My journey, and I just have to keep going. But I never felt like I was gonna continue until I it was your interview, really. It was your interview. Yeah, it was I heard you interviewed a CBC twice. I knew it was more, but twice, and I thought, just keep going, kiddo, just keep going. Yeah, seriously. No, seriously. Um I think there was also another show that I watched that I felt like like I really need to this Max Haven, is that what it's called? Maximilian or something like that? It was a kid's show on TVO. Okay. So this was by the time by this time I had um my children and they were little kids, so they're watching TVO a lot, and there was a show on TVO called either Max Haven or Maximilian or something. And I watched that and watched how he was teaching math to his young protege and thought, this is amazing. This is what I this in my mind is what math is being able to see relations, being able to see patterns, and how that trains your mind to see and be in the world. I don't think I should miss out on that forever, and I don't want any other young people uh to miss out of that, especially young kids of color, because that there's so much intimidation or and girls, um, there's so much intimidation built into the system that they start to shrink and shrink and shrink, and before you know it, they start not taking these courses and these courses and these courses, and then there's like where do they go from here? And then they drop out. It's like no. So, um, in terms of contribution of getting giving back to society, that's something that I think that I'd like to be able to do. I love that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I mean, I guess uh one thing I kind of want to know is what do you I mean, it's probably hard for you to even think about, or maybe you don't think it's unusual, but what do you think it is about you that has enabled you to like have this attitude where you're like, I'm just gonna keep doing it. Like, I'm not gonna let myself believe that I can't do it. I'm going to find a way to do it. Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_00

Again, it's exposing yourself to other people. Okay. I think other people really um influence us even when they don't even know that they're influencing us. And hearing people talk about failing something and doing it again um is so it's like that I get the sense that if they can do it, I can do it, right? So it's hearing other people's story and also getting to the point of saying, um, here is my life. What can I do to change it?

SPEAKER_02

So I was listening to this I'm like really obsessed with Oprah's podcast these days. Uh oh my god, her super soul podcast. I just found out about it. Anyway, she's talking to Elizabeth Gilbert, who wrote E Prey Love, and I I think I've told like everyone about this episode this week, but she was talking about Elizabeth Gilbert was saying that you know the number one advice we get is to follow our passion, follow our passion, blah blah blah. But it's actually really alienating because many people do not have a passion. You know, like they're not like I always wanted to be married and have kids, or like I've always wanted to be a writer. And she was saying she has been giving people this advice for so long and she's realized that it's so disempowering. And the real advice should be to follow your curiosity. So to like whatever, like exactly like you're saying, right? Like whatever piques your interest, like you follow that and you do it. And maybe that leads you to, like you said, maybe you will end up, maybe that becomes your passion. Maybe you start teaching kids, or maybe it doesn't. Maybe you learn it and you feel empowered and you move on to your next thing. And there's nothing wrong with that, but we are so obsessed with like some crazy end goal and leaving this legacy and blah blah blah that it often stops you, right? But and then it got me thinking, actually, I'm literally just thinking this right now. What if kids were taught that as it pertains to math? Right? Yeah, like follow your curiosity. Math is this very interesting, curious thing. Like, you don't need to have this end goal, you need don't need to become a mathematician. But what if we did invoke curiosity in kids?

SPEAKER_00

I think that just hearing you say that just makes my h head itch from saying partly because I heard the architect, the famous architect Frank Geary, talk about what how he got to where he was in life. And he said his grandfather instilled in him curiosity. And I just went, Eureka, that's I feel like that's a missing piece from my uh being raised as a child because you're not encouraged to be curious because they worry that curiosity could eat what did they say? Curiosity kills the cat. I was raised with. And so here is Frank Gary at my write page telling me that you curiosity is the key. And I'm like, I believe him. And I have a wonderful, wonderful therapist. And she's always talking about you should remain curious to the feelings that you're having. I said, No, I want the answer, I want the answer. No, remain curious. And that I think is is is a is a key. I think that's a life lesson that we should encourage in children. Absolutely. Curiosity. Because if you don't, um if you the opposite of that for me is the math written on the board, this is how you do it. Just that way, and that's the only way you can get to that answer, really? Just that's it. And so if you don't do it right, and you you always feel like I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. Right. And so I don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and not only do you feel that, but it's like that seems really boring given the fact that the scope of math is actually part of what's so cool, is you can get to the answer in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_00

This is it. This is what I'm this is what I've come to realize. It's like, why did anybody so the idea of curiosity is a really good one? Um, and I think the other thing that I in reading uh John Mighton's book was like, you know what? What is what if I was being taught by teachers who themselves, A, didn't like math and B didn't know math. Right? They just knew how this is what you teach. Boom, boom, boom, boom. But they didn't actually know math.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you probably were.

SPEAKER_00

So when I was when I was reading his book, I thought this guy does know math. But he also has a He was a playwright, you know?

SPEAKER_02

And a playwright. I read his plays. Um Have you spoken to John Mighton?

SPEAKER_00

No, I have a crush on him.

SPEAKER_02

Oh my god, I had a crush on him too.

SPEAKER_00

Me first.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, well, I mean maybe it was you first. The point is, I think he's married though, for sure. I have messaged him a few times to ask him to go out for coffee with me, and he's never responded, which leads me to think he's likely for John Mighton. Okay. Well, anyways, you can fight over that after.

SPEAKER_00

We'll send him episode.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. He's gonna be like, oh my god, restraining order still agrees.

SPEAKER_00

But you want to hear something, John Mighton, if you're listening. I took my son to see him, and my son was of the age where I could still bully him gently as a mother and uh make him do things, um, even though he didn't he he didn't want to. I took him to hear John Mighton speak. He said, I don't want to go. I said, But you're going. No, I'm taking you, you're going. And he went and he was really this surly, I think he was about 10. Surly 10-year-old. And um he sat in the front, so embarrassing, he plopped himself in the chair. And because we're in public, I couldn't smack him on the head. I don't smack my kids. Anyhow, so we go, and I was so embarrassed because he was the only child. This was not a child friendly, this is a parent-teacher kind of thing. So he plopped himself down, but smart John Mighton asked him questions, right? Really? And my son could answer them. So by the end of it, my son is sitting up straight, and I was like so impressed with that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so you want to marry John Mighton and have him raise your son?

SPEAKER_00

No. He's pretty raised.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you said your son your son has a science degree.

SPEAKER_00

Math degree. Hello. Math degree from um, oh god, my brain from George Mason University. Does John Mighton have anything to do with this? I don't know. I'm not gonna say no. I think it's more his dad. His dad was his dad is really math guy.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, wow. Alright, so I mean, we're gonna we're gonna wrap it up with a couple of questions that I ask everyone. This has been so fascinating. And I think this is a really, really like, I mean, you're just from the second I got your email saying I my goal is to learn math, I was like, this woman is the coolest person. Because again, I really do want to reinforce that it is not usual for people to just keep butting up against their obstacle and saying, No, I am gonna now make this a challenge instead of just let it beat me down. And I I think all the reasons for you doing it too are really, really important.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Like I I really like that idea as math as a tool to empower, not just because you know math, because you know you can do it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know? Okay, so my first question is what would you say to someone who professes they're not a math person?

SPEAKER_00

I would say, how would you know?

SPEAKER_02

I'm like goose bones.

SPEAKER_00

How would you know?

SPEAKER_02

I love can you say that? Who told you that? Yeah, yeah, who told you that? Well, I love that because you know I don't I don't believe being a math person is a thing, but it's funny. So it's interesting because you just said that the father of your children is a math guy. So do you mean he like does math as a career or he's good at math?

SPEAKER_00

Very good at math. He's an engineer, very good at math. I wouldn't go to him to teach me math. Not even to save myself. I wouldn't go to him to teach math because he's the whole school math, right?

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Why can't you do it? The implication is that you're stupid.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so it's like, I don't need that.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so the next question is what would you change about the way math is taught?

SPEAKER_00

I think it should be let's drop the friggin' books. Let's talk about what math is. I think math should be taught in from very early as a s in in story form. Kids learn through stories, then it should be taught through play. And then um it should be a everybody sitting in front of me, teacher, you've got 30 kids or 32, God help you. Kids. Um, one of you are leaving here without learning math. How are we gonna do it? We're gonna figure it out. So those of you who can, wonderful, let's keep you moving at your level and speed. And those of you who are maybe a bit shy, let's figure it out. Let's figure it out what your learning style is to figure out how to teach you. There is no can't, there is no um you are incapable of. We're just gonna try. And if at the end you don't like it, that's okay too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But if you you have let's figure out a way how to help you learn, let's make it fun, let's make it interesting, let's figure it out how it's best to teach you and go from there. I love it. And if you know you're gonna be an engineer already and math is your journey, perfect. Let's keep you on your path. But um, we don't want to take anything away from you, but we definitely want you to leave this class aware of math in the way that you can.

SPEAKER_02

I love it. I love it, and I really believe that too. I'm like, if you don't literally don't like math, that's totally cool. That's fine. But don't not like it because you think you can't do it.

SPEAKER_00

Can't do it, or you feel intimidated, right, or you feel stupid, or any of those feelings. Let's just get that in the garbage can, leave it at the door, save it for geography.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so now for I always do this at the end of each episode, is I'm going to give you a prescription as your math therapist. Okay. Um, it's just so glaringly obvious what I'm going to get you to do. And I think we're all gonna be very excited about this. I would like you to write a letter to John Mighton. I would like you to explain to him the uh profound effect he's had on you.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so you're gonna write a letter. Um, it can be handwritten, it can be an email. We're gonna check on you. Okay, and we I mean, if it's personal, it's personal, but if not, I'd love to share it with our listeners when your episode comes out. Um, and I want you to do this not just for my own entertainment, but because I actually think it's so powerful the way you talk about role modeling. And because you're a role model yourself, and like I I really think like the way you describe how he's making you feel is the way you are going to if you don't already make other kids feel that way. So I think it'll be really great to put into paper, and also I think it's so important for people, even John Mighton, who doesn't answer either of our emails. Well, I don't know about you, we already have yet to see that. Um it's really important for people to know um the effect that they have on other people's lives. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Uh yeah. I wanted to reach out to a high school teacher. Um high school teacher, I sent him a message, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet. But it's I wanted to reach out to a high school teacher and said, Yeah, I need to let you know before I leave this planet the impact that you had on my life. Wow, did you email him? I emailed his friend. I sent it because I don't have his email address, you can't find it anywhere, but I sent it by way of contact.

SPEAKER_02

And and I have no Was it a good impact or like you were in my life? Absolutely. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. If it was to ruin my life, it was like, okay, I figured to get over this if it was a ruin of a life thing, but it wasn't. It was a it was opposite of that. Oh my god, when did you send it?

SPEAKER_02

Are you sure he got it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm sure he got it.

SPEAKER_02

So I'll just send another one. Yeah, like why wouldn't he answer?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know, maybe he's in a different phase.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, maybe, maybe. You're so understanding and kind. I'm like, why is my answer, my email not being answered in 24 hours?

unknown

John!

SPEAKER_02

Okay, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. This is this is now the hazing John Mighton episode. Okay, honestly, thank you so much. This has been a really, really great talk. Is there anything else you wanted to say that you didn't say?

SPEAKER_00

No, I just really want to thank you. I really, really, really, really want to thank you. I think that in I think it's in you, okay. Journey, they talk about the wounded healer, the person who who've had, who've been through an illness and then find a way to um to heal themselves and come back and share that with other people. I really believe in that. So thank you for sharing your successes and failures with us. Oh my god. I I I love the idea of your success and your failure would be other people's success and other people's.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and then that's I'm just passing that on to you. That's exactly what you're doing.

unknown

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

That's so cool. Okay, well, thank you so much, everyone. Yvonne, the coolest woman alive. Thank you. Guys, how cool is this woman? Learning to ride a bike at 52. Goals, goals, goals, goals, goals. I just love that her bucket list involves life goals with a theme of freedom. And it really made me think of what that means to me. And I want to know what it means to you guys. What is freedom? How does your relationship with math help or hinder your freedom as like a human on this planet? And of course, I'm dying to know what's on your bucket list and is math involved? Tell me! You can get in touch with me on all social media at the mathguru, which is also where we post extra episode-related content every darn week. Oh, and guys, Yvonne sure did write that letter to our pal John Mighton, which you can find on our website where we put all of our show notes, themathguru.ca slash math therapy. And of course, a reminder that Math Therapy is hosted by me, Vanessa Vicaria, produced by Sabina Wex, and edited by David Kochberg. And our theme song, That's Waves, by Goodnight Sunrise. Guys, if you know someone who needs math therapy or just needs to hear someone else get math therapy, please share this podcast and write us a quick review on iTunes or the Podcast App. Those two things actually make such a big difference and only take a second to do. I am determined to change the culture surrounding math, and I really need your help. So please spread the word. That's all for this week. Stay tuned for our next episode out next Thursday!