#59: Dillon Forte on the World's First Tattoo NFT

Dillon Forte is a world-renowned tattoo artist who is trailblazing the crypto x tattoo industry. 

In this conversation, we discuss:
- Tattooing an NFT 
- Traditional art and NFTSs
- Tattooing inside the Pyramids
- Creative process
- Tattooing musicians/actors like Usher, Chris Hemsworth, and more
- Tattoos in the metaverse
- Bitcoin FUD

Dillon Forte
Website: dillonforte.com
Instagram: @dillonforte
Facebook: @DillonForteTattoo

Forte Tattoo Tech Online Store:
Website: fortetattootechnology.com

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Transcript

Matt Zahab: 0:08

Ladies and gentlemen, it's your host Matt Zahab. We are back at it again and I am extremely fired up to have today's guests on the show. A very unique one for you like tattoos, and we know you love crypto, you are going to absolutely love this one. Today's guest is a world renowned artist that's known for his contemporary style of sacred geometry in tattooing. Our guest believes in viewing the body as a whole, creating harmonious designs to flow seamlessly with skin. Since operating his first tattoo studio over a decade ago in California. This gentleman has developed an incredible online following and a high profile international client base and on talking some big dogs. His other notable ventures include photography, painting, fashion and tech design murals, gallery exhibitions, and his product line forte tattoo tech, which he recently launched bio degradable tattoos flies to. He recently released and sold his NFT art and also tattooed it on the same buyer. I friggin love that. He trailblazing the crypto x tattoo space. And we have monopod today, folks, I'm very pleased to welcome to the crypto news podcast. Dylan forte, Dylan, welcome to the show.

Dillon Forte: 1:17

Hey, how's it going, man? Yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

Matt Zahab: 1:19

Very, very fired up to have you on now you are easily the first guest to come on and to have actually tattooed an NFT on someone that is but Nana's bait that How the hell did that go down?

Dillon Forte: 1:35

Ah, I mean, the empty space is kind of crazy. And we'll dive into that I'm sure. Um, you know, I listed a few of them, right, I made a bunch of tattoo designs, obviously 1000s of them in folders. So once that started kicking off, I was what didn't take too long to think I should just put some of these up as NF T's. I mean, weren't really sure what you know, is thinking like, there's a lot of talk about the whole, like multiverse concept. And like all the VR, like, you know, maybe having them, people could use them or wear them in games, or in any kind of like 3d kind of space like that any of the, I guess, like just any of the VR stuff, they need to augment augmented reality, you could theoretically start to have the whole economy in there, you know, people sell cars for that space. And that's, that's going on that's been going on for a little while. But, um, yeah, you know, like, uh, as I was looking through some designs and working with one of my clients on what we should do, he he like, he specifically like this one design, that will happen to be the first one that I made as an LP. Um, so I actually started the process of tattooing. And before that, actually, sort of like connected that. I mean, maybe just just by the NF T, and now we can even be linked. So, as we finished a piece, it just sort of became sort of like, that's what we're doing with the project, we're just going to make it to where he could have like, sort of the first tattoo that also was like, verify or link to the blockchain. I mean, my view on entities, honestly, is that it's proof of concept that smart contracts, have a real world use case. That's how I feel. I mean, there's, there's a whole level of different hustles, and you can dive into so many rabbit holes with that. But um, that's really where I feel like it's shiny is that you have a, it's proof of concept. This clearly works, you could use that for, you know, you could start issuing birth certificates, theoretically, you could start issuing contracts. I mean, it's just it's really proof of concept that smart contracts, have a real world use case and that's how it that's how I feel like the what this is what's happening right now. And now it's gone. parabolic, you know, testing that obviously, and then there's, you know, I have my own beliefs on what were some of the hustles lie in that I haven't been able to master them.

Matt Zahab: 3:51

But talk to me about those those beliefs.

Dillon Forte: 3:54

Well, this is what I think's happening as an artist. I'm gonna just blow everybody out like five seconds in. All right, I mean, like, say you've got a decent amount of eath right? You're sitting on there. So you're early investor, you're into art, maybe you're not even into art. Um, you could make anything as an NF t right? Say I like to do to Miami who take the banana to the wall and sold 100 kr basil. Like there's something else happening there. It's not organic, like in my opinion, there's no way that it's organic. No one's walking up and being like, oh, that banana needed needed. Like that's not happening in my opinion. There's something else right so like, I believe, say you got a bag of like 300 eath chillin and you're like, all right, you make put a JPEG up like boom, this is my art. And to set a floor to develop a market you buy your piece. So like, if I bought a piece would that oh, this dude sold gummy bears. pumps for like three oh god and then like that It was right back to you because you made it. So like you just minted one, and then you put it in your wallet, and then you bought it and guess where the money goes to your wallet. So then you're like Word, you do that 10 times and that collection is poppin, you just got three, you got 10 pieces, they're all selling in the like, five 500k, you got a million dollar pieces of art selling now you just know you're like a big time artists now. Everyone else is just going to jump on the bandwagon, yo, you've seen that those sell grow one by one. And then that now actually got organic investors starting to pile in. And that's how I feel like you have yourself a little bit of a greater fool theory. So like, it's who's holding the bag at the end of the day. So like, I'm not saying that's happening with every project, I'm sure there's a lot of fantastic artists, we're making really cool art. And I'm sure there are people who genuinely like I bought a piece, an NFT from Alex gray. Because Alex gray is one of my big my biggest inspirations as an artist. And I genuinely just wanted to mess around with the space and see what was up and like, right. And but when I see genuine artists work, not really getting play, and then I see like something kind of ridiculous, like usual, just going hyperbolic. Granted, that is totally how the art space works in general. So I mean, it could be pretty organic. That's sort of my take on the empty space. I think there's an underlying that doesn't even get into anything else. We're around like, Michael Moore conspiracies, then people might be doing some wild things with it, you know, so I don't know. I mean, you could do all kinds of stuff you could sell to somebody's house, but like, then have the deal go through as a fucking cartoon picture. Like, I mean, these are this shit is this is untapped. I mean, this, just

Matt Zahab: 6:37

like you just said, it's the Wild West, we're still sorry, Lady this space that it's like, Who's setting the rules? Right? And that's exactly

Dillon Forte: 6:46

they're in your benefit to that, you know?

Matt Zahab: 6:48

Yes. And your point you said about the whole artist coming in buying up his or her own stuff. Makes a lot of sense, right. And candidly, it's really no different than what a lot of the big sellers do on Amazon where they just they buy the stock. And then they just don't ship it right. Because I used to work in e commerce. When you get into a bulk order for something. What do you do you call the trucking company and you go, Okay, this is where I'm shipping it to. But if you're, if you're going to ship it back to your own warehouse, you don't do anything. And then your product goes to the top, whatever. 10 on Amazon, and then other people buy it, right? There's ways to gamify everything, but I completely agree with you there. But now you did something that is almost gamification proof and your client, literally skin in the game tattooed it on himself?

Dillon Forte: 7:32

Well, what what I think is really fascinating with that is that it's what we did, in my opinion, that's cool as we develop the first secondary market in tattooing history. So there's no way to further monetize our like as a tattooer. So the one downside with being a tattooer, I do a lot of fine art also, is that, why Fine Art prices, in reality, even without any kind of weird hustle or anything is like why they can sell for like, you can have a PhD? Oh, that piece is $2 million. So that piece is $20 million. Because simply there's a belief that someone else will pay more. So which is the secondary market? So

Matt Zahab: 8:10

right

Dillon Forte: 8:10

we've a secondary market. Theoretically, it's theirs, as long as you believe or someone else believes that there is someone else who will pay more than the buyer. there's a there's a, this keeps go, where what happens is with tattooing, obviously, it's a one of a kind thing, a piece of art for the person, there's no you can't sell it, right, you can't like not going to cut it off. Like Yes, if you die in Japan, they might you could get it scanned and put in that's like on some level, you know, yeah, there's definitely some next level and not, it's not going to be like, you know, product link. Anyway, so like, there's no secondary market, you can sell a photograph of the tattoo. But like, I mean, besides maybe the and tedium of being divided, even though it's interesting is about the idea of like getting done with a little bodysuit, having a photograph making a 3d model, and then essentially, like, documenting that, or even, you could create, like, you know, animations around it, you have the piece. So there's that that's another whole layer, right? There's a layer of animation where you could have something that is done all you can pretty much do in the real three dimensional world. And then you could also add layers of augmented reality or layers of VR moving forward. But I think what the what we're trying to get out into the secondary market and for the first time, that he can now theoretically sell the NF t that represents the tattoo. You could sell it and make that tattoo, you could even pay for itself. And every single every single sale, I'm sure will radically generate passive income because every time you sell that design, you're you know, using like 10% of whatever we set it at him and I beginning 10% whatever, you know, so it's like you're creating passive, passive income and passive income off a tattoo. I mean, there's no residuals, you're not getting residuals typically you're not getting passive income, that's for sure. And you're not even developing even any kind of discussion around I've been asked that all the time you do a piece of art for person, but there's so many layers of the art that gets underutilized like, and most people don't really realize it's like I have to draw, you know, I'm sketching a bunch of concepts on them. And then I'm taking that into the computer, and then I'm rendering an entire 3d model. And then I'm building, you know, a digital piece of art. And then I'm printing that out in development and making 3d real world stencils of it, and then applying the stencils onto the person, and then tattooing that onto them. And then we're taking photographs, and then you know, so it's like, there's a whole you're doing almost every other form of two dimensional art and the graphic design. You know, draft drafting, sketching, drafting, drawing, graphic design, and, and then yeah, to application. So there's more than just one craftsmanship. Issue happening. They're

Matt Zahab: 10:50

all are you doing all that yourself?

Dillon Forte: 10:52

Yeah. 100%. So like, all of that is being under represented and under utilized, you know, so none of those factors are being noticed or warranted, like no one cares. You know, it's like that final result of like, oh, but potat. And that's why like, even tattooing in general is underrepresented because you see a piece and people haven't quite came up with the correlation that there's an artist who made art and then also as a craftsman tattooed that art upon someone so there's layers to it. And that this is what is nice about this is it's actually a further layer. Now you created a blockchain layer, or we now have a that's really what it is, right? Like it's a smart contract layer to it then now says that this artist did it at this date. And so it was like a timestamp. I mean, it says sort of a certificate of authenticity. And even if that was all it was, that's still super fascinating.

Matt Zahab: 11:42

Well, it's, it's the first of its kind, like, think about it this way. And again, I'm sure everyone's tired of using this example, but like thinking that crypto punks Yeah, totally right. Like, that's the first first big 10,000 avatar project to pop off. Like, I bet the house and some that there's going to be a shit ton of NFT tattoos popping off in the near future. And that's because of you. So like that, you know what I mean? There's, there's gonna be some value to that first. NFT

Dillon Forte: 12:05

Yeah, and that what I thought was really cool is that was the first one I made authentically and organically just to sell like, well, just to make as an NF. T. I wasn't even planning on making it into a, like tattooing it also, and then having that kind of like, um, it's just cool. Yeah, I didn't think I didn't think of that. So it was definitely organic. Um,

Matt Zahab: 12:25

was there an aha moment when that idea popped up? And you're like,

Dillon Forte: 12:28

totally, totally, there was. And that was when I was just thinking, Oh, once, you know, once it was there, you know, you see, you see some of these things were like, how do I tap into that? Like, as a tattooer? How do I tap into this? You know, like, how do I take a photo of the tattoo finished? But why would you want somebody else's arm? You know, like, it's a picture of some dude, like, Yo, I got this booth are like, yeah, granted, I was considering approaching some of the people we were talking about, that I've tattooed and trying to see if they do want to do something like that. be interesting. And people, people probably would want like, something, you know, like, Oh, my God, like the same tattoo this dude got, but I got the actual thing, you know, so maybe, you know, so like, yeah, they might have like, somebody might wash your head. Picture. I mean, it's getting interesting.

Matt Zahab: 13:19

Yeah. and foremost, Dylan's being humble right now, but he has tattooed some pretty high profile clients like Usher Chris Hemsworth Kat Von D. Kalani members of Imagine Dragons just to name a few. And is also tattooed in some bananas, places like Mount Everest and tattooed himself inside an Egyptian pyramid. I do want to hear the Egyptian pyramids. And there is

Dillon Forte: 13:45

no one everyone always talks about the like, like sort of celebrity angle, but like nobody, like I really am into like, the tattooing craziest spots just because it's like, I like to learn things. Well, I just don't really like to. I like to kind of have everybody like, tell the same scene, you know, like, but the pyramid ship was that like I was really, that was like the coolest thing I thought and that was I wanted to do for like a long time I've been to Egypt. I'm a super big nerd about like the whole anthropology. I'm super big.

Matt Zahab: 14:12

believe in aliens.

Dillon Forte: 14:14

I'm super, super deep down that alien rabbit hole. I definitely think there's non terrestrial interaction with us. For sure, especially throughout history means history is a very long time period. Um, the building of the pyramids is like, I will not I'm not even gonna like you'll be so busy, like, we will get another nose. But inside. So how that I'll tell you. I'll run through that story quickly about tattooing in the pyramid. Which I thought was really cool was uh, I planned it for a couple years I've wanted to and then I've been there maybe three times that the last time was the only time it was it remotely feasible or had tattoo stuff with me because usually since like a vacation and like, you know, tattoos are not exactly allowed in Egypt or through that region. Really. Um, it's not like too big of a deal. It's not like super legal For like, Westerners, but um, I was in the area for Tattoo Convention in London like I had an area, you know, I was over there. But um, and so I had some stuff we had to travel a lot so but I did have stuff with me so I had a little bit of stuff and yeah, I just went I went in the morning just kind of cruise through just did once the pyramids, like it's usually packed, you know, it's usually so many people around like, they all the guards and stuff. And you're not allowed to really bring anything in there especially not like, sharp tools that you like this specifically not supposed to bring sharp tools that you could like, inscribe or anything. Like they weren't meant to be in Egypt to start writing, like tagging the pyramid. Yeah, as you know, but like, you can call it a tattoo machine. It's like a little engraving tool there. Yeah, the arm out. There. Yeah. So, um, but so we went the first time, just check it out was cool. I didn't think I was actually gonna, I wasn't gonna, you know, but then the next day, I was like, my friend's wife was there. And she, she didn't come with us the first day. So she wanted to see parents. So we're going to go again, I was like, Alright, we're gonna go again, I might as well try just two little tiny things. Um, so I have a fanny pack, after I had this little wireless machine. So I threw it in there. I mean, I took a altoids case, you know, just put it in cap, look, fill it up with ink put like, you know, a tiny little alcohol swab to dip it off with a little cartridge. I mean, I still keep it tight in there, like I'm so I had it all in there, like in saran wrap on it. And so it's like my whole setup. You know, usually it's a whole big ordeal. But I have a tiny little altoid case set up in a fanny pack. And just like in like, you know, like snap, like a little napkin swab. Um, and then yeah, I was just extra cool with the guards. And we already seen him the next morning. So they're like, oh, you're bad. You know? And like, it's not like, with all these tattoos, especially over there, you don't stand out. So it's like, oh, tattooed guy. What's up? You know? We're back pyramids. Like, oh, they're like, Okay, you guys are tight. Like when they they want to, like take pictures for you. And like in there, you know, make some extra money. So just like oh, yeah, for sure, bro here. Like, and then Honestly, it was weird. There was just nobody in there. Not a soul in there, which is I've been there now. But decent times, then I never happens really. And there's always a guard in the king's chamber. So like, nobody was in there and do must have been like I was alive or something. So I'm just sitting there with my like to my boy and like his wife. And I'm just like, time, so I'm gonna do a little tiny too. So yeah, I just did, like, I just did three dots. Like, you know, for, like, the constellation that aligns with the pyramids. And just like, you know, guestimation of them. So it wasn't like it's crazy to but it was more like it was just, I don't think I'm pretty sure nobody's done that. At least not in the past. Like years. Yeah, like, unless somebody was doing that for some reason.

Matt Zahab: 17:43

Yeah.

Dillon Forte: 17:43

Which I don't even really think they were in there. But that was just the most fire tattoo studio on fire. That's could be what it was just, they're just like, oh, feral is just killing it. But no, I mean, that was it, man. So it was cool, as

Matt Zahab: 18:01

well. What a story though. I love that. And then we do need to talk about some of the high profile guys like, again, what's it like? Like, were you nervous at all when you got Usher? Like, what's that? Like?

Dillon Forte: 18:11

No, not really. I mean, it was cool. Because it's like, you know, I've obviously heard his music like as an under living under a rock, you know? Like, you know, I grew up in Oakland Berkeley, so like, you know, I heard that since like, I was like 12 maybe 11 you know, so like, I just was like as tight? Um, no, I mean, it's all really kind of the same. It's all the same everyone's hella cool like for the most part like if I think everyone wants to stuff I do it's like they're going to be caught no one just shows up wanting like something super bizarre because I'm not really an artist known for just doing like I say portraits where every single time it has nothing really related to me other than it's good or like the caliber they like they're seeking me out because they're into the kind of art and into the same stuff that inspires them inspires me and there's like this like mindedness immediately because you're like, you know, he was at Burning Man he was like, but I want to get like she was like into the stuff like the sacred geometry stuff who's into it you know, so it was like we were just by beyond stuff we're into. That was really a short both of I mean, like that was like not like a super repeated huge piece is like single session piece you know? So like, um, yeah, it wasn't like super super duper crazy it was cool you know, he's super nice and like, I was mad chill, it wasn't like and that's why usually I'm not that like well my are like reserved like, you know, not really like games but Oh, yeah. It was like it's not really like it's like less exciting. It's cool because they are like, obviously like influential but it's not like like there's some people will do like a bodysuit on right so we're doing the craziest tattoo on like to me like this, where it's like if I'm doing like a piece of this big you know, single session does not there's not much story like oh shit yeah, man. That's cool. We made that like, Man listen your shit since I was like 10 as dope What do you want to get over this? Hell yeah, like let's go. Let's get it you know? So it's not like this like the hem Word stories probably a little more story ish, which had there's more substance to that. I mean, like gosh was cool super chill dude Hemsworth thing was trippy. You know, we were out in a same kind of thing is that Egypt I was out in the lunch I was in London for this convention. So I took a little bit of time off to go to Morocco. So I was on Rocco just chillin. Honestly, I wanted to go see some stuff I told you, I'm super into the anthropology and trying to unravel a lot of history things at that time, we were putting together a lot of stuff for a TV show called sacred geometry and the origin of humanity. So it was a show I was going to do a Science Channel, the whole situation in the past two years, kind of canceled all the travel shows, so that when y'all went out the window, but for now, but um, yeah, so I was out there actually trying to do a bunch of stuff like for the show. And then I mean, Hemsworth were in communication for a little bit prior to that, just talking about doing some tattoos and stuff. And we just both happen to be out there. He was filming men and black for I think just men in black. And I was out there just honestly chillin after the convention, doing the separate a TV show. So we're like, well, that's pretty cool to just get something done right. Here you go here in Australia. I'm in LA. There we go. Like burnt. I've been like,

Matt Zahab: 21:12

half literally halfway

Dillon Forte: 21:13

and bored doing stuff. It's like just yeah, it's rare to just be sitting in the same spot like, Alright, yeah. And it's always cool to do a tattoo in a weird location. Because when you get it you remember like, Oh, I got that in Morocco. Like it's like a it adds a layer to it. It's an interesting. So um, yeah, we just met up, you know, sick and spa they're staying is like the dopest spot, obviously is palatial

Matt Zahab: 21:35

house,

Dillon Forte: 21:36

like 60 foot pool in the room, you know, like, a place that has pools. Um, but you know, I was like, kind of worried too, because like, I don't know, if you're supposed to have like, tattoo stuff out in Morocco, either. It's the same situation. So like, yeah, so we go through the hotel, right? It's like, they got the metal detectors. And then like, they're like, looking at me, like all the tattoos are like, what are you doing coming in here? You know, like a tracksuit on looking like a total fucking weirdo. They're like, I'm

Matt Zahab: 22:03

here to see Chris.

Dillon Forte: 22:04

Yeah. I'm sure bro. But then kinda like maybe like, yeah, they just call the dude and they come out. So we'll get into the rollover. But yeah, that was what was the he's hella nice, you know, Australian dude, just be yours. And you have the keys. Right? So yeah, we did just we designed some guy who's gonna wait, you know, so we just designed something, actually, we're brainstorming and it was going to just be like, kind of a brainstorming like consultation thing, honestly, because like Matt laid things at one may have to fly out somewhere. But, um, at that point, but as I was going through all my designs, his uh, his daughter was like, checking out all the, like, there too, you know, and she was like, just started doodling some stuff like rubber. Like she was like, inspired by all the designs that we're showing them. So she was drawing some tiny little like geometry stuff, like just a star, you know, another kind of star little like, eight. So she kind of made like a Dharma wheel, the sort of like King Solomon Seal of Solomon, like, the, you know, five pointed pentagonal star, which is also the Moroccan flag. So it's like, and then like, we're like, this is kind of cool. She just doodled out, she just, like, straight, threw down some geology. And then like, we're just explaining to him what those shapes actually were and what they were presented, which is kind of like a, almost like a coexists type of thing, like those bumper stickers, you know, like, almost like that, because it's like, a bunch of different faiths. And it's like, yo, actually, like, that's something we could do in like, you know, five minutes to just throw down because it's like, it's like a to make it look like a little pencil sketch just like that. She made it. And there's a story in that, you know, so for me, it's really, I like the tattoos I do to have some substance in a story. Like, it doesn't have to be like the most technically craziest thing in the universe. That's cool, too, as a flag, but like, also, if it just has a like a wholesome story, where it's like, oh, my daughter drew this, you know, that's cool. Like then so for me, it doesn't need to be like anything else. In the end, your daughter drew that that's tight, I would get that tattooed on you know, like, so. It was a mellow like tattoo. It wasn't like again, like, I've done some wild shit and that was like, you know, it was a story is crazy sick. And I was like, is a cute little thing, you know? dark. Oh, but that was cool. It was like some substance there, you know? But um, no, he's dope. All this dude's been like super mellow. Like when you get into anything too crazy, you know,

Matt Zahab: 24:14

to catch stuff. That's awesome. I want to take a quick break, though. I'm not sure if you're a trader at all but I do some key trading from time to time little crypto stuff and whenever I do I always use prime x bt absolutely love these guys, and they are today's sponsor the show. They've been friends with us at crypto news.com for years and we always love when they have new products coming out. They do have a couple sweet things on the back burner so do check them out. Prime SPT offers a robust trading system for both beginners and professional traders that demand highly reliable market data and performance always clean always quick, great product. Traders of all experience levels can easily design customized layouts, widgets, you name it, whatever you need to best fit your trading style. They have it as they always offer innovative products and professional trading conditions to all customers. That's prime xp t.com. Go check them out opseu treats have an application and promotions running all the time to deal back to you here. I got to ask you a little off topic here. Someone like me, I'm a tattoo virgin never had a tattoo I've always wanted to. I'm one of those guys. I've never done it because again, I don't. They're like, I don't have anything that really resonates with me where I'm like, I need to put that on my body. But like, I'm looking at you right now you got you're always, of course, super tied it up, you've rocked the hell out of it. I got a lot of friends who have six leaves, even legs, leaves. I love that. I love that. And I always ask people about their tots. What do you say when like someone like me? I've always thought about getting one. But again, maybe I'm too much of a plus, I don't know. But I just I'm not pulling the trigger. When you have this conversation with someone like me? How do you get them to habitat or what? What can you say? What light is there to shed light? How's that go down?

Dillon Forte: 25:56

I think I mean, I definitely don't ever really try to get people to I mean, I'm almost like on that like, Ilan, like kind of thing. But like, you launch it, where it's like, they just like just do the product, and then just like do it the best you can and then like, it'll sell itself. Yeah, it sounds like a sales thing I like I specifically, like don't sell anyone, especially with the tat just because I don't want to like

Matt Zahab: 26:17

your work.

Dillon Forte: 26:18

Why did I get that? So? Um, but no, I mean, I think it's like it, you know, not everyone needs one and like, but if you kind of want one in general, it's like, there's always some like, in a way, you can almost start with something kind of little or chill that's mellow, that just like breaks open that like floodgate. And once that boundary of like getting something is it's like you kind of then you start thinking like, that would be cool to add to that. And so once you sort of switch the mindset into that world, it's almost like it takes over that are just starting, you know, that doesn't end. So

Matt Zahab: 26:51

that's another thing too, though. I know as soon as I get one, I don't have one friend. I don't think I have one friend. Once you get one, the floodgates are open.

Dillon Forte: 26:59

I mean, so it's like, if you want those floodgates open Yeah, you could just kind of like get something that is meaningful in some capacity. There's always something in a minute, like once you like just don't even really think about it something you know, actually cool to get this. But I mean, my word is relatively abstract. So like, yeah, I have so much like sort of chock full personal meaning that I feel like is in the work that I'm trying to express that a lot. Most of my honestly, like I'd say 40 to 60% of my clients just come through and like Yo, I just I saw your work. I really like it. I just want to get something by you as an artist, like, kind of do whatever for the most part. Yeah. Which is really cool. And it took a while to get to that but it's sometimes like art so like but like what, like I mean anything I could I'll do some like dark cool, we're gonna do like a bunch of like smiley faces but they will start melting and then it's gonna be like, the mushrooms are gonna pop you're like,

Matt Zahab: 27:48

have you had clients like that where they literally come in, they sit down and they're like, just like, you know, the classic that the pardon my French but you know the mean with the barber when it's like fuck me up. They don't ever do that, where they just that sick?

Dillon Forte: 28:01

No, like, like, oh, maybe people lightweight cuz I'm like, What do you like, for real? Cuz like, they don't actually want you to though. It was like, unlike the barbershop where that you would just be like, I'm gonna do me, I'm gonna headphones on just get it. Like, no, they want you to do when they want me to do that. They want me to do something like I already did write right on that they don't want to, like, yes. Which people don't get like all blinged out as like artists, especially in this space. We'll talk about that. Because we're like, everything you saw me do, like, I want to do some different stuff. So the more freedom I would do some out like some super avant garde, like out of the box, I'd be like, Alright, now we're gonna do now geometry, I've done 1000s of geometry, I'm gonna be like, we're gonna do so swooshes that turn into some but you know, like, if you really were like, do whatever, I'm gonna sit there and try to come up with some suit. Like, if you actually what whatever, it would be super weird to be like, you know, pixels turning into like, a bit, you know, it would just be some crazy shit, which, and honestly, people would be saved on that a lot of times too. But they mostly want it to be like, what they see you do. They're like, do whatever you want. Exactly. Like what I've seen you do, because I know I like it. And then you're like, so the same thing again, because I don't want to do the same thing again. So what do you want? And then it's like, well show me stuff that you liked. And that's usually what it is, hey, just go through my portfolio. Look at even other pictures and be like, you know, I'm feeling that one. I think it goes with the body. Well, I like that one because it's like, seems kind of intricate. I like that one, maybe a little feminine, or that one that one's tight. You know, so that and then I get a feel for it. And then I show them designs I've already made, you know, to kind of just stop and then go on a segue that what's cool with the NF t thing is I might make a bunch of designs as NF T's and you could just be like, oh boom, that one and then by the NF T and be like cool. I want you to do you did that's what I mean so we could do that. And so like for you I almost recommend that would be kind of cool to do something that was in the cottonwood to infuse like your obvious interest in like experience in the crypto space, fusing that with sunlight. Where it doesn't have to be the meaning of like some super personal all of this was my grandma's lucky, you know, be just like, Oh, I want to be like on the cutting edge and this is where I am right now. And so I want to make an NF t collab with, you know, dealing crypto news, make an NF T, and attach to that as a collab and then like, you know what I mean, like, and then boom, and then like auction off then on, you're still you know, like, so something that no matter what everyone has something that's like a story for that. So that's how I would approach it. But I just sold you a tie to it. I see.

Matt Zahab: 30:29

You're opening up the realm right? You're just infinite potential when when you mix almost blockchain with anything. And it's incredible that you're trailblazing the space. Would you ever do one of the sort of cookie cutter 10,000 piece avatar NF T's that you're seeing with the Cool Cat, and the dogs unchained and crypto punks and you know board APR club? What good apes all that kind of stuff? Would you ever do something like that?

Dillon Forte: 30:53

I wouldn't be down to make something I don't really know, I don't remember the process of how they what they're doing with that, really, I just know the beginning of minting something just pretty straightforwardly, I don't really know that I guess you could just set it to 10,000. And then just how are they really? How are they iterating? So many questions, like?

Matt Zahab: 31:11

That's a great question. And don't take this with a grain of salt. I've you know, I've consulted on a couple, but I've never made one myself. But each of these projects has a similar stencil, we can use I have a coolcat we use a cool cat, for example. It's a blue, very friendly and cute looking cat. And then there's different attributes. So there's different hats, you know, there's different things in the mouth, different outfits, different backgrounds. And it's just randomly generated. Now a couple of outliers where there's like a one on one piece, which of course huge Rarity, then extremely high on the scar sea level. And then the other like 9000 of them look very similar, but they're all just a tiny bit different, right?

Dillon Forte: 31:47

I really seen them, I just wasn't sure about the process of setting up the like some kind of auto generator or what generate the iterations. Because if you did one where like I put a bunch of elements of designs or made like a character, and then we made it to where it was like, there's just all the geometry populates differently. And there were like 10,000 iterations like, or I just have 10,000 does I mean, I probably have I honestly probably have 10,000 designs, unless it's cool for people to have it generate for them or I don't know the process.

Matt Zahab: 32:15

You could throw your 10,000 the when again, when I was doing research. The first the first thing that I saw come to mind, I looked at your collection. It's incredible. By the way, I don't even know how you think of this ship. But the first thing I thought of is I was like, imagine getting one of the crypto punks online because again, everyone, everyone's always talking about the metaverse and it's like the crypto punks are going to be in the metaverse. They're going to be playing racing games, golf games, shooting games, you know, you name it. Same with the Cool Cat thing with the apes. It's like imagine getting one of I don't know, one of the 1000 or one of 100 Dylan forte tat and then ASCII taught that you can actually put on a cat, you know, net neck tattoo match. And one of the cool cats had a neck tattoo.

Dillon Forte: 32:55

You know what? That's kind of where I was the initial impetus, right? That's what I said, Okay, cool. I'll just start making these desilva entities as multiverse cats, like that people could then put on like, you know, a decal on your car, though. Yeah. Put it in your front yard and spit. I mean, you know, in that was a crazy world. So I mean, theoretically, whatever. Um, no, I'm totally into it. I mean, that is sort of where we're, we're going in terms of how much I'm trying to dive into it. I mean, I was trying to really dive into some stuff, I was going to build an NFT platform to allow tattooers to sell designs and

Matt Zahab: 33:27

all that thick. They whenever you whenever you're, whenever you're the market maker, that's when the bands really start rolling.

Dillon Forte: 33:33

I mean, I'm all for infrastructure. So honestly, that's where my head goes. And before it went to like, I wanted to make like a whole series. I was like, let's make a whole infrastructural marketplace. Hence, like those are the projects that I'm mostly into to ones that are just building the entire floor. Um, it was pricey. And man tattooers are not right. It's gonna take years like before, people, I mean, there'll be like, two, two years, two, three years from right now when until tattooers are really like remarketing tags. For my art on the internet, how do I put that two years out which granted doing it now, but even even once you start thinking about it, I know another artist in the tattoo space, who I think is now working on that project too. And it was like, Huh, and it was just costly. So I was like, Oh, we already got like competition in that space. I don't actually think from hearing how much people complain like. Here's another thing that I think is actually really important to talk to, especially on crypto. So what I get a lot of pushback is people go Oh, NF T's is is bad for the environment. Alright, check it out everybody.

Matt Zahab: 34:39

It's because because the banks are the most scared of This is a great for this. For one, that's some of the stupidest shit you can come up with. I'm explaining really easy minutes how this is done. And this is why everybody's mad at Ilan because it's dumb as shit. One these Bitcoin specifically because that's that was the only one there tries to pummel into the ground with the environment. Okay? Bitcoin that's why they go out at the most

Dillon Forte: 35:05

the probably number one tool to incentivize renewable energy ever created in the time of man. Is Bitcoin. You can't monetize Bitcoin mining on a long enough timeline if you're not operating on renewable resources, because you're paying for the energy. Unless you're a Saudi who's just pumping oil all day. Yeah, that dude could probably run it. Okay. Yeah. And then Okay, you gotta you gotta hydro Well, I mean, a hydro dam. Alright, and running on hydro. Guess what? That's renewable. Okay, so unless you've got okay coal. Alright. Yeah, like you're the dude who owns a coal factory. And yes, you could run a profitable Bitcoin operation off that, though. Like and don't get me wrong. Yeah. Hello people on coal factories. But we're talking about a mock like a simple marginal few if you're trying to decentralize the incentivization of renewables. There's no better tool than Bitcoin so honestly, plus, I can't believe everyone's listening to a dude who shoots rockets all day. I mean, I'm down with rockets. I like rockets. I'm down with Mars. I'm a super super like let's go nobody can say Oh, bitcoins bad for the environment. But like don't trip Why just load up my jet fuel into my spaceships all day. Oh, it actually went in the ocean killed like 200 dolphins. She will load up another one sounds like an honestly, we got to get to space Earth might get hit with the space meteorite. I mean, you know, like, I'm down Mars, I'm super into the progress. I'm super into space. I think go further go mind some damn asteroids. I'm down. But at the same time, as someone who owns a and founded a biodegradable tattoo supply company to remove plastic from the entire tattoo industry. Because PPV is one of the most wasteful things on the planet, and it's obviously necessary. So hence, I wanted to make it using biodegradable, compostable and sustainable resources. Someone who spends a lot of time diving into that and someone who spends the time diamonds crypto. It's like just super incorrect. It's just false information being just reiterated on the internet because I'll post it.

Matt Zahab: 37:11

If I may jump in here and sorry to interrupt. Alright, so I had someone on the pod who after the show I asked him or her about this. A lot of people don't know the BlackRock, one of the biggest financial institutions in the world is I think, the top three largest shareholder of Tesla. And when you have someone who invest billions of dollars in to go to you and say, Hey, you better stop jerking off Bitcoin. You're probably gonna do that. You know what I mean? Like that's so it all it all comes out in the wash at the end of the day.

Dillon Forte: 37:41

It does. And that's what we see now. Oh, bitcoins calm. It's like, I thought it was kind of funny. Like, you can buy a 10th of a Bitcoin. Everyone's like, cool. I'm gonna not really tell them a bit more. But I have a Tesla, you know, I did do okay. In terms of stock thing. I sold that. Honestly, what he's like, I think it was his brother selling all of the shares or like, pull the plug. Yeah,

Matt Zahab: 38:01

yeah.

Dillon Forte: 38:04

The thing is, yeah, it's crazy. Um, I lost my train of thought. But

Matt Zahab: 38:08

you're talking about that the five things debunking the environmental fun.

Dillon Forte: 38:12

Yeah, I just I just went on board. I think I was just like, it was it. But yeah, I think the environmental things ridiculous people do come at me with the NF t things. When I posted that had a long debate about it just Oh, yeah, more things. I mean, you're getting spoken to you like someone who's gonna try to like hit you with the Fudd on regarding the environment, on their phone to your phone, on the internet, when like, your all your internet is being provided to you via Amazon, AWS web services that are like that require energy to run the internet. So it's like, what do you think that's just gonna run on the internet, whether you think it should just come through magic space, they're like,

Matt Zahab: 38:49

people need to complain about something, you know, And hey, if you're getting shit about that, I mean, you're doing something right. You know,

Dillon Forte: 38:55

it's true, but it's like, I started seeing all the tattooers banding over that not being like, Oh, we want to get into this space. So that's why I was like, oh, for trying to build a whole marketplace. I was like, I don't think they're ready. I don't think they're gonna get it yet. And it's not saying that I couldn't trailblaze it, but I'm doing so many projects that I had to kind of put that on the on the side.

Matt Zahab: 39:15

That is weird that they weren't in your corner though. Because like, again, I'm in discord groups with I don't know if your Do you use discord at all?

Dillon Forte: 39:21

Yeah, I do more telegram but like, yeah, from that much lately.

Matt Zahab: 39:25

That's one of the one of the things I love about crypto is I find that people as a group as a whole want, like, I don't want anyone in this space to be poor. I want everyone to be rich. You know, in a lot of other industries. It's like in traditional financial markets, it's like, I want my crew to be rich and I want everyone else to be poor. Whereas with crypto I just feel like it's like let's make everyone filthy, free and rich

Dillon Forte: 39:46

crypto, the discourse and the telegrams are almost like insane with that guy. His project is like a sinking Titanic. And you guys are just like

Matt Zahab: 39:57

you're taught to like your tattoo crew, though. Why aren't they like?

Dillon Forte: 40:03

Me? tattooing in general is so big now. So you'll have like, and tend towards a bunch of high school drama man, this isn't this isn't that like it's not the same. It's not anywhere nearly as like, there's a scarcity mindset that runs deep through that this is not like, this is not like to participate at all where it's like, because everyone thinks everyone's client is could be there. Like it's just

Matt Zahab: 40:22

it's right, right? Yeah

Dillon Forte: 40:25

clicky it's clicky in some, you know, there was a historical gain. Really, it's, you know, it's not like at all it's super inward. It's like, oh, no one wants an apprentice teaching like, you know, like, and I'm, I fall into some of it to where it's like, even just learning how to tattoo. Like if you make like a tattoo school. You do tattooing is old school. So like, you put a shop next to somebody else's shop and I try to burn down your shop, you know? No, it is not like at all like those like like I'm in a I'm in like fag from a minute. And that was a telegram group that like feed every gorilla feed every gorilla like everyone

Matt Zahab: 41:02

I see.

Dillon Forte: 41:03

Hey, yeah, I really liked that project. Man, I did really good and did not sell because I'm, you know, greedy. And it's down a little bit. But you know, I mean, asked coin. I mean, all the fun ones, you know, you got some of these fun ones. I mean, like, like other ones that are logical, but you of course they got to plug some of the fun ones. Or, you know, the Shiba

Matt Zahab: 41:25

ebbs and flows, or, you know, the NF T's.

Dillon Forte: 41:28

Just a cup. Like I told you, I just bought Alex gray one. That's the only one I got. Honestly, I'm not. I'm not I can't really. I wrote a lot of the i'm not i got like one literally I'm not. That's like, like I said right out the gate. What I truly think with the NFT space is proof of concept for smart contracts. I don't really I don't really know why one would other like one would boom other another one other than like people being into Um, so I haven't really figured out my own way to like, feel confident that I have like any kind of edge or advantage in that aspect. You know, I get people hitting me up all the time for this one bro right now. And I'm like, and my boy, it kills it. Like, I'll be like, yo, like the download was over. Like, I feel you but like I got in I was in I've been involved in kryptos probably since 2016. So I've definitely like wrote a few roller coaster like rides up and down and up and down. And the most recent like, I was heavy, heavy, heavy, like we would have been like, I've been honestly on a little bit of a chill this past thing because I feel like um, bags are loaded. I'm just ready like RG let me know when we're in the moon. But the last period was I definitely saw the the meme stop the mean stocks and the mean kryptos like, I saw what was happening with GameStop I saw what was happening with you know, that whole that whole time period of craziness and I wasn't really in that I was in normal stocks and I saw that happen. I was like what and then I saw what was going on with that and I was like okay, and I was like once these dudes figure out like about crypto This is gonna get crazy and I was like don't just gonna be out there is going to gonna get wild again. I was like so I just started buying all the like,

Matt Zahab: 43:07

the fun ones like

Dillon Forte: 43:09

I was like, Okay, let's go so I just bought bloated up a whole bunch of new ones which rallied insane but then what in the recent like correction came out broke off, you know, and I was like and so in the period of broke off me is when my boys like Jonah, he's a few NF T's to hop into. I'm like, timeout, I seen some fun numbers. And I see those numbers too. I'm just gonna like, keep the bags, chillin, load him by the, you know, the rocket, and have you on the rocket ship goes, I mean, I work. You know, I'm 12 hours a day at work.

Matt Zahab: 43:40

But that I was gonna ask you though, how do you do? How do you manage crypto? other you know, because you're not just

Dillon Forte: 43:47

like, I

Matt Zahab: 43:49

do it all though, because? And also a follow up question to that. What's the longest tat sesh you've ever been in?

Dillon Forte: 43:55

I usually keep it pretty chill. I do the same every day. Right? So I do like 10 to eight. So I have people do like 10 hour days every day. So when our before and our after I had a cleanup setup, you know, but like 12 hour days, I don't do longer. I've done like maybe like probably once that was like 14 or something, you know, on somebody like that. And that I think that was the day that I was like, Oh, it was like a 14 hour session. And I was like I need to have like an end time. So I actually started to set myself up with a start and finish time. So now for the past like literally 567 years and things start finish. I already know I know what I'm coming home. I can say especially now you know, well how to go back how you do it, how I do it. Besides like a mess. I don't do it. But how I do it. It's just called like a coffees. You know, and just send it and just see what you can do. But now I got like three assistants, you know, I mean, I got like assistant doing emails I got one doing stuff around the shop and I got an apprentice and like, you can try to delegate tasks for sure. But um, mainly I think the best thing with how the crypto stuff came in, tend to be used to casually be involved and spend like, you know, I would just watch YouTube videos and stuff like from kids in their pajamas, like an hour to work, one hour commute. And honestly, I used to not like it, but that our commute gives me like, boom podcast. And like YouTube video, like, I get two videos, roughly two hours of education a day. So

Matt Zahab: 45:16

you said during the Tesla, you put on autopilot, don't

Dillon Forte: 45:20

drink a coffee, and just like, yo, okay, what's up, we got to learn some, you know, such a nice two hours a day, education, you know, so like, hit like workout for like our, than our education than tattoo for like 10 hours, then like another one on the way back. And then like, so in terms of the learning stuff. You know, I'm super into that. So like,

Matt Zahab: 45:38

the reps in

Dillon Forte: 45:38

you know, but that's how I like learn. And then it's just being just kind of hyperactive and try and try to get as much in. It's definitely catching up. Like right now. We're trying to buy trying to buy this house. I'm moving. You're moving from California, we're gonna move to I think we're moving to Austin. And same with pretty much everybody, but

Matt Zahab: 45:55

nice to get a little tax break.

Dillon Forte: 45:59

Yeah, probably, like, we're getting kind of crazy, because everyone's moving there. And then they're just pumping up the real estate prices. And then yeah, property taxes are more over there than here. So like, but yeah, that what they're trying to do here with income tax is about to get crazy. And I mean, I don't know, I'm a little nervous about infrastructure bill regarding crypto, I don't even know why. But I've been hearing a lot of that. Coming down. I'm like, don't be messing this up. But you know, crypto is resilient, especially how big space it is, especially how much how many trillions in space like,

Matt Zahab: 46:27

yeah, play. The only thing with the infrastructure bill, it's like, your, I hope it's not the full life, which a lot of people are saying, but there's, there's not ways to hide it per se, but there's ways to get taxed less than the government wants you to. I mean, there's, there's, there's a lot of good, but I can flip you somebody again, I'm Canadian, so I don't have to deal with that. Our governments even worse than that. I'm in Toronto right now. You probably tell from my accent, but our governments,

Dillon Forte: 46:56

I tend to strongly progressive clients from so many different places that is just as become like a thing by now. You know, I tied to tons of Canadians here, especially when I was allowed to travel, you know, yeah, it's not quite Australia. But you know, I don't want to go on. Oh, go on a tangent. So,

Matt Zahab: 47:11

hey, Dale, this is, uh, this has been incredible. I do want to, I want to give you one thing for the NF T's because I can tell you like, but you just you don't want to get caught in them. And I've had a lot of friends and colleagues and clients ask me about him. And my big thing is just buy one. Don't spend a lot of money, go to the discord group. And just see how cool the whole community feeling is when you got 10,000 new friends and I'm a fortunate guy, I got a lot of friends. I'm very happy, very grateful. But having a community that where everyone wants the exact same thing. Everyone wants you to be rich and happy. And you all have that same value, right? Like you're all you all believe in this piece of art, whether it's a cat or a dog, it's a special feeling, man, you get the dopamine hits, get the adrenaline going, like it's euphoria.

Dillon Forte: 48:00

I didn't even know cuz like I was in like, I was in a whole bunch of discord and telegram still with like, you know, all of the like, I was in turtle coin, which was poppin. And people go by and safe mood was I was like always, I was I was when it was a correct time to get in. I was my buddies. Oh, no, bro. I think we already we missed that. I was like, Oh, yeah. All right. And that was like, you know, six, like, it was like, nine months. It was like at the bottom floor. I'm sure we missed that bro. But like job all of those and like, the thing that like, even he when I was kind of like, Oh, no, you know, he's like, bro the but it's like the community still poppin I didn't even know there was a similar type communities. I know anybody had an NF t discords. Like at all I was like,

Matt Zahab: 48:41

the NF T is like 20 20,000 members kind of thing.

Dillon Forte: 48:46

Yeah, totally. I mean, that's what they are in a lot of these. So it's fascinating, especially, I think the NF t i think the difference between what I was saying initially about the NFT space, I think what you have with the large scale these, like 10,000 iteration projects, I think it's a slightly different thing. Right? I think that's community driven. So I think when you have those you get everyone's hyping. It's like the community typing in that. So that's also this cool, isn't it? That's dope. And then the other way is also interesting. So I think that that makes a lot of sense to kind of see what communities are really pop in and see who's like. Okay, like, that makes sense. You know, for sure. I think I took kind of I always take these like, poorly timed breaks where I'm just like, oh, everything's kind of like, Oh, this is like she's not popping. Oh, yeah, hit me when it's popping, but Oh, she's popping. Okay. FOMO Let's go. Wow. You know, it's like the wrong time. Always. It's like, be heavy involved in like doing the chit when nobody wants to. Um, but yeah, that's where it's busy because you're gonna be working and then I hear like, Oh, she's moving. We back. You know, so like, No, I'm into it. Oh, score that's more even making a 10,000 iteration thing and building one would be really cool. We'll definitely talk more about that. Absolutely. I could go on forever. So you know, just trying to win. Basically Hey,

Matt Zahab: 50:01

Dale, I really appreciate the time. You're really cool guy just had a blast having you on hopefully round two. But I guess sort of the new tradition before we let you go any questions for me?

Dillon Forte: 50:12

I don't know. I think you just gave me up. Just drop some knowledge right now on the NFT space.

Matt Zahab: 50:16

I'll take it. Yeah. If you don't have any questions, media means I did my job. Hey, I guess one more question. Please give us the lowdown working. All of our listeners find you and your work online. I know you have you're an info or Twitter guy, right?

Dillon Forte: 50:29

Yeah, totally. I have a Twitter right now. Honestly, it's just Instagram. The Dylan is Dylan forte, di Ll o. n. You guys got it spelt like a million, which everybody does, but it's just Dylan di Ll 144. Te on Instagram. My website is just too important, calm. I got a bunch of I mean, I think I have most of the other social medias. But those are the only it's only Instagram my website that are like pretty much active at all or like useful for anyone just hit the website that there's a link to emails, emails for appointments, pretty straightforward. And you know what kinds of projects but Yeah, dude, let me know we'll talk about the crypto tat collab little QR code that'll scan to some to the crypto to the fucking crypto punk. You know, we'll figure it out. There's, there's always something weird you can do. I'm into

Matt Zahab: 51:13

love that Dell really appreciate you having you on and would love to have you on for round two coming up. Thanks again. Appreciate it, man.

Dillon Forte: 51:18

Take it easy. Appreciate it. Have a good day

Matt Zahab: 51:20

Folks. This was Dylan forte, the incredible tattoo artist who's trailblazing the crypto x tattoo space had a blast having him on and I'm sure you guys did too. If you'd liked this episode, please do subscribe and follow us it would mean the world as always crypto news podcast and your host Matt. They have love you all. Appreciate you all and we'll see you shortly. Thanks again. Bye