{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.02,"endTime":1.59,"body":"Hello, everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.59,"endTime":3.99,"body":"Welcome to Fire Science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.59,"endTime":3.99,"body":"Show session 43."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4.61,"endTime":8.426,"body":"I'm super happy to tell you that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4.61,"endTime":8.426,"body":"today I am hosting a true legend"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":8.446,"endTime":12.676,"body":"of fire safety and fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":8.446,"endTime":12.676,"body":"professor Vytenis Babrauskas."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":13.346,"endTime":15.796,"body":"Vyto is well-known"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":13.346,"endTime":15.796,"body":"in the community."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.796,"endTime":18.166,"body":"He's been active in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.796,"endTime":18.166,"body":"fire safety fall."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":18.526,"endTime":20.026,"body":"I think last five decades."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":20.506,"endTime":25.036,"body":"He's supposedly the first PhD"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":20.506,"endTime":25.036,"body":"in fire safety engineering,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":25.456,"endTime":30.436,"body":"which is an amazing feat"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":25.456,"endTime":30.436,"body":"amazing title and an author off"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":30.496,"endTime":34.006,"body":"absolutely landmark handbooks,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":30.496,"endTime":34.006,"body":"such as the Ignition handbook"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":34.396,"endTime":37.306,"body":"and more recently Electrical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":34.396,"endTime":37.306,"body":"Fires and Explosions handbook."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":37.846,"endTime":38.596,"body":"And this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.629,"endTime":41.233,"body":"pieces have helped"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.629,"endTime":41.233,"body":"thousands of fire engineers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":41.233,"endTime":42.403,"body":"in their profession."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":42.697,"endTime":45.187,"body":"And more than that, he's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":42.697,"endTime":45.187,"body":"also been involved in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":45.187,"endTime":47.737,"body":"development of the tools"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":45.187,"endTime":47.737,"body":"that we all use such."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":47.767,"endTime":50.737,"body":"I just con colorimetry or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":47.767,"endTime":50.737,"body":"furniture calorimeters,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":51.097,"endTime":51.937,"body":"and many, many more."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.147,"endTime":54.277,"body":"It's actually quite"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.147,"endTime":54.277,"body":"difficult to list all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":54.277,"endTime":55.357,"body":"the achievements of his."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":55.43,"endTime":57.08,"body":"A long and fruitful career."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":57.749,"endTime":61.319,"body":"Anyway, we all know Vyto"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":57.749,"endTime":61.319,"body":"and I have invited him to,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":61.349,"endTime":63.689,"body":"uh, the podcast to discuss."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":63.709,"endTime":67.142,"body":"His views on where the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":63.709,"endTime":67.142,"body":"fire science is lacking or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":67.142,"endTime":69.512,"body":"where, what are the white"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":67.142,"endTime":69.512,"body":"spots in fire science?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":69.512,"endTime":71.942,"body":"Because that was very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":69.512,"endTime":71.942,"body":"interesting to me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":72.392,"endTime":74.422,"body":"And, given he has such a long."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.506,"endTime":75.646,"body":"Professional career."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":75.646,"endTime":78.546,"body":"I wondered if the problems"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":75.646,"endTime":78.546,"body":"we meet today or the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":79.356,"endTime":81.666,"body":"Unresearched areas"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":79.356,"endTime":81.666,"body":"we find today."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":81.69,"endTime":85.136,"body":"we're also identified"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":81.69,"endTime":85.136,"body":"already 30, 40 years ago."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":85.496,"endTime":87.956,"body":"And why the fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":85.496,"endTime":87.956,"body":"has not picked on them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":88.316,"endTime":91.356,"body":"And actually, I think this is a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":88.316,"endTime":91.356,"body":"quite interesting conversation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.926,"endTime":94.086,"body":"And that touches both"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.926,"endTime":94.086,"body":"the history and the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":94.086,"endTime":95.586,"body":"future of fire safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":96.126,"endTime":100.339,"body":"And many of the topics may"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":96.126,"endTime":100.339,"body":"be a little controversial"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":100.339,"endTime":101.869,"body":"or may sound controversial."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":102.412,"endTime":103.586,"body":"But I think it's okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":103.946,"endTime":106.766,"body":"We need diverse voices"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":103.946,"endTime":106.766,"body":"and sometimes you need"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":106.766,"endTime":109.962,"body":"to listen some harsh"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":106.766,"endTime":109.962,"body":"words to move forward."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":109.962,"endTime":111.432,"body":"So I also appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":112.062,"endTime":114.372,"body":"Also, uh, what's interesting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":114.396,"endTime":118.056,"body":"In conclusions, Vito is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":114.396,"endTime":118.056,"body":"going back to some very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":118.056,"endTime":121.416,"body":"simple guidance, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":118.056,"endTime":121.416,"body":"sounds like obvious."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":121.416,"endTime":123.456,"body":"We need to do cost"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":121.416,"endTime":123.456,"body":"benefit analysis."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":123.816,"endTime":126.156,"body":"We need to have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":123.816,"endTime":126.156,"body":"better statistics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":126.603,"endTime":129.162,"body":"we need to have, well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":126.603,"endTime":129.162,"body":"Clarified goals that are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":129.162,"endTime":131.082,"body":"written in the law for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":129.162,"endTime":131.082,"body":"performance busy engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":131.142,"endTime":132.972,"body":"I mean, these things are."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.002,"endTime":135.612,"body":"on the first thought you would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.002,"endTime":135.612,"body":"think they're not very deep"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":135.612,"endTime":137.366,"body":"and they're like very obvious."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":137.786,"endTime":139.856,"body":"But then again, if you think we."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":140.459,"endTime":142.379,"body":"First thing, we don't have them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":142.799,"endTime":143.879,"body":"Which is horrible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":143.879,"endTime":147.089,"body":"And the second thing, well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":143.879,"endTime":147.089,"body":"he's talking from five decades"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":147.089,"endTime":148.709,"body":"of experience doing that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":149.159,"endTime":152.579,"body":"So this gives these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":149.159,"endTime":152.579,"body":"thoughts, this additional."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":153.239,"endTime":157.139,"body":"Depth to truly consider"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":153.239,"endTime":157.139,"body":"them and maybe stop a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":157.169,"endTime":158.399,"body":"while and think about it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":158.399,"endTime":160.376,"body":"And I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":158.399,"endTime":160.376,"body":"very worthy thing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":160.821,"endTime":163.641,"body":"So I think this does"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":160.821,"endTime":163.641,"body":"not require any more."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":164.001,"endTime":164.751,"body":"Introduction."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":164.751,"endTime":167.001,"body":"I hope I got your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":164.751,"endTime":167.001,"body":"attention already."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":167.001,"endTime":170.781,"body":"And you're ready to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":167.001,"endTime":170.781,"body":"listen to the interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.111,"endTime":173.864,"body":"If you'd like to learn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.111,"endTime":173.864,"body":"about, Professor Babrauskas"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":173.864,"endTime":177.853,"body":"and he's books and other"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":173.864,"endTime":177.853,"body":"stuff that he's providing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.243,"endTime":181.123,"body":"You can visit him at his"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.243,"endTime":181.123,"body":"webpage, doctorfire.com."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":181.783,"endTime":185.053,"body":"And for this talk well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":181.783,"endTime":185.053,"body":"lets spin the intro and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":185.053,"endTime":186.163,"body":"jump into the episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":209.973,"endTime":210.643,"body":"Hello everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":210.643,"endTime":212.043,"body":"Welcome to Fire Science  Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":212.203,"endTime":215.643,"body":"I am today with Dr Vytenis"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":212.203,"endTime":215.643,"body":"Babrauskas, hello Vyto."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":215.733,"endTime":216.873,"body":"So happy to have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":215.733,"endTime":216.873,"body":"you in the show."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":217.318,"endTime":218.423,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":218.663,"endTime":223.223,"body":"I appreciate the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":218.663,"endTime":223.223,"body":"to share whatever I can, of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":223.223,"endTime":228.013,"body":"my, experience and my points"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":223.223,"endTime":228.013,"body":"of view, within the profession."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":228.208,"endTime":229.014,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.472,"endTime":232.102,"body":"I, I really enjoy having,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.472,"endTime":232.102,"body":"people who are leaders"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":232.162,"endTime":233.382,"body":"of the industry in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":233.642,"endTime":235.768,"body":"And I really like, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":233.642,"endTime":235.768,"body":"some reason to talk about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":235.768,"endTime":238.512,"body":"people's PhDs and you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":235.768,"endTime":238.512,"body":"happen to be the first fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":238.512,"endTime":239.752,"body":"protection engineering PhD."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":240.645,"endTime":243.085,"body":"And I, I would like come back"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":240.645,"endTime":243.085,"body":"actually to the times when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":243.085,"endTime":246.368,"body":"he done that, I have happened"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":243.085,"endTime":246.368,"body":"to seen a big part of that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":246.788,"endTime":250.028,"body":"And the reason why I ask you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":246.788,"endTime":250.028,"body":"about it is that, sometime ago"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":250.238,"endTime":251.748,"body":"there was a paper by John gales."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":251.748,"endTime":254.268,"body":"John was actually on this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":251.748,"endTime":254.268,"body":"podcast around episode"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":254.408,"endTime":257.068,"body":"10, talking about it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":254.408,"endTime":257.068,"body":"in about the historical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":257.138,"endTime":258.228,"body":"origins of fire testing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":259.358,"endTime":262.702,"body":"And, many of that work was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":259.358,"endTime":262.702,"body":"based on your work, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":262.702,"endTime":265.062,"body":"your PhD and the papers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":262.702,"endTime":265.062,"body":"that were published in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":265.062,"endTime":266.422,"body":"seventies, in fire technology."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":266.922,"endTime":269.735,"body":"But now with this new paper,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":266.922,"endTime":269.735,"body":"you wrote a letter to editor."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":270.513,"endTime":273.533,"body":"and obviously the letter and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":270.513,"endTime":273.533,"body":"critique is interesting, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":273.533,"endTime":278.46,"body":"there is one sentence that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":273.533,"endTime":278.46,"body":"has made me call you and get"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":278.46,"endTime":280.78,"body":"you onto the show because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":278.46,"endTime":280.78,"body":"I, I find it brilliant."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":281.233,"endTime":284.693,"body":"I will cited, you write about,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":281.233,"endTime":284.693,"body":"historical, origins and then"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":285.053,"endTime":287.883,"body":"a sentence, even though we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":285.053,"endTime":287.883,"body":"did not, this is this state,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":287.883,"endTime":292.083,"body":"this, it was basically felt in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":287.883,"endTime":292.083,"body":"that space of a short years,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":292.273,"endTime":295.726,"body":"fire resistance testing would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":292.273,"endTime":295.726,"body":"become an obsolete anachronism."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":296.506,"endTime":296.726,"body":"Wow."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":296.836,"endTime":297.486,"body":"Mind broken."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":298.466,"endTime":301.492,"body":"Was that the state of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":298.466,"endTime":301.492,"body":"mind in like seventies, that is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":301.492,"endTime":303.012,"body":"gonna go because boy, it did not"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":304.101,"endTime":306.631,"body":"Well, it was"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":304.101,"endTime":306.631,"body":"not, you know, actually it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":306.631,"endTime":311.914,"body":"wasn't in my, personal opinion,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":306.631,"endTime":311.914,"body":"but that was the opinion of the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":311.914,"endTime":313.874,"body":"professors that I worked with."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":314.054,"endTime":314.274,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":315.269,"endTime":320.082,"body":"And their colleagues and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":315.269,"endTime":320.082,"body":"it was felt that, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":320.082,"endTime":325.139,"body":"science is going to triumph"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":320.082,"endTime":325.139,"body":"technology and that, things"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":325.209,"endTime":328.102,"body":"will become, very scientific."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":328.562,"endTime":333.939,"body":"But, the, you know what I wanna"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":328.562,"endTime":333.939,"body":"tell you, the story, which is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":334.049,"endTime":339.892,"body":"very interesting, you know, one"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":334.049,"endTime":339.892,"body":"big aspect of that is, Thermo"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":340.052,"endTime":343.732,"body":"structural, uh, behavior and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":340.052,"endTime":343.732,"body":"Thermo structural modeling."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":344.472,"endTime":349.192,"body":"And you see, when I was at,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":344.472,"endTime":349.192,"body":"Berkeley in the 1970s, we had,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":349.389,"endTime":353.319,"body":"one of the people who was, uh,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":349.389,"endTime":353.319,"body":"in my guidance committee, who"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":353.869,"endTime":358.884,"body":"was professor Boris Bresler"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":353.869,"endTime":358.884,"body":"and was a very famous, man"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":359.064,"endTime":362.354,"body":"in, structural engineering"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":359.064,"endTime":362.354,"body":"and, and fighter engineering."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":363.214,"endTime":368.057,"body":"And, he had a number of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":363.214,"endTime":368.057,"body":"graduate students who built up"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":368.197,"endTime":375.854,"body":"the first really significant"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":368.197,"endTime":375.854,"body":"suite of computer programs for"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":376.044,"endTime":381.664,"body":"calculating Thermo structural"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":376.044,"endTime":381.664,"body":"behavior of building frames."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":382.724,"endTime":387.32,"body":"And, uh, because, frames was the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":382.724,"endTime":387.32,"body":"emphasis because, a two by four"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":387.32,"endTime":390.88,"body":"house does not have frames, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":387.32,"endTime":390.88,"body":"people worry less about that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":390.88,"endTime":393.36,"body":"They worry more about"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":390.88,"endTime":393.36,"body":"bigger buildings."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":393.46,"endTime":397.03,"body":"So and he was very progressive."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":397.2,"endTime":400.102,"body":"Those, students were very good."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":401.042,"endTime":407.625,"body":"And so by the middle of the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":401.042,"endTime":407.625,"body":"1970s, we had this, capability"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":407.685,"endTime":413.552,"body":"to go to a computer and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":407.685,"endTime":413.552,"body":"calculate, structurally what"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":413.552,"endTime":417.645,"body":"happens to building frames,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":413.552,"endTime":417.645,"body":"when fighter happens upon them."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":418.545,"endTime":424.789,"body":"Now, the very fascinating thing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":418.545,"endTime":424.789,"body":"after that is, I don't know if,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":424.789,"endTime":430.176,"body":"you know, in Europe, this story"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":424.789,"endTime":430.176,"body":"of rip van Winkle, where this"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":430.196,"endTime":434.333,"body":"was this man who went to sleep"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":430.196,"endTime":434.333,"body":"and then he slept for 20 years"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":434.353,"endTime":435.893,"body":"and he woke up 20 years later."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":436.429,"endTime":440.786,"body":"Well, this same thing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":436.429,"endTime":440.786,"body":"happened in Thermo structural."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":441.624,"endTime":442.044,"body":"Design."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":442.944,"endTime":447.371,"body":"And it was extremely"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":442.944,"endTime":447.371,"body":"bizarre that after professor"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":447.371,"endTime":451.571,"body":"Bresler retired, I think"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":447.371,"endTime":451.571,"body":"around 1980 but ever since,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":451.791,"endTime":454.491,"body":"you know, these students"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":451.791,"endTime":454.491,"body":"finished in the, I think"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":454.721,"endTime":458.161,"body":"75 70, something like that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":458.758,"endTime":463.611,"body":"And there was a 20"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":458.758,"endTime":463.611,"body":"year period of sleeping"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":463.641,"endTime":464.061,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":464.671,"endTime":467.338,"body":"and, they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":464.671,"endTime":467.338,"body":"had made this absolutely"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":467.468,"endTime":470.058,"body":"major scientific advance."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":471.238,"endTime":475.398,"body":"And for the next 20 years,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":471.238,"endTime":475.398,"body":"absolutely nothing happened."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":476.258,"endTime":479.718,"body":"And then about 20 years"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":476.258,"endTime":479.718,"body":"later about in the middle of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":480.238,"endTime":484.718,"body":"1990s, people started saying,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":480.238,"endTime":484.718,"body":"oh, well, wait a minute."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":485.348,"endTime":489.734,"body":"There's some, science possible"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":485.348,"endTime":489.734,"body":"that you could, compute."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":490.199,"endTime":493.859,"body":"What happens to a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":490.199,"endTime":493.859,"body":"structure of a building"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":494.156,"endTime":495.966,"body":"when there's a fire in it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":496.706,"endTime":503.436,"body":"And so why this 20 year,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":496.706,"endTime":503.436,"body":"pause happened is I have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":503.436,"endTime":506.826,"body":"no explanation is just very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":503.436,"endTime":506.826,"body":"strange, but then the second"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":506.826,"endTime":509.716,"body":"thing happened, which is,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":506.826,"endTime":509.716,"body":"I think is also strange"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":510.336,"endTime":515.733,"body":"is that now if you look in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":510.336,"endTime":515.733,"body":"our, fire science journals,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":516.116,"endTime":519.833,"body":"the, I think generally the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":516.116,"endTime":519.833,"body":"number one, most popular"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":520.389,"endTime":525.476,"body":"topic is, fire resistance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":520.389,"endTime":525.476,"body":"modeling and, various,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":526.029,"endTime":529.229,"body":"calculations or some cases,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":526.029,"endTime":529.229,"body":"experiments and calculations."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":530.154,"endTime":534.094,"body":"On, beams and columns and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":530.154,"endTime":534.094,"body":"joints and composite structures"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":534.094,"endTime":534.974,"body":"and things like that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":536.034,"endTime":538.638,"body":"And, actually you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":536.034,"endTime":538.638,"body":"because I I don't tend"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":538.638,"endTime":541.758,"body":"to look from a, so much a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":538.638,"endTime":541.758,"body":"professional point of view."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":541.838,"endTime":545.068,"body":"I tend to look from a society"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":541.838,"endTime":545.068,"body":"point of view that I think"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":545.098,"endTime":549.224,"body":"it's more important to be a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":545.098,"endTime":549.224,"body":"member of society than it is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":549.284,"endTime":551.584,"body":"to be a professional member."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":552.604,"endTime":557.538,"body":"So from a society point of view,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":552.604,"endTime":557.538,"body":"I asked this question, is this"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":557.638,"endTime":562.688,"body":"the right place to put that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":557.638,"endTime":562.688,"body":"many financial resource us?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":563.478,"endTime":566.698,"body":"Because, you know, those"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":563.478,"endTime":566.698,"body":"people are doing, academically"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":566.698,"endTime":569.978,"body":"good work and they are"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":566.698,"endTime":569.978,"body":"producing graduate students."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":569.998,"endTime":573.338,"body":"And the graduate students"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":569.998,"endTime":573.338,"body":"are earning the PhD degrees"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":573.558,"endTime":578.978,"body":"and, uh, the system is happy"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":573.558,"endTime":578.978,"body":"that way, but are we really."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":579.823,"endTime":584.233,"body":"Cost effectively making"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":579.823,"endTime":584.233,"body":"an improvement in fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":584.293,"endTime":585.673,"body":"safety by doing that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":586.453,"endTime":592.473,"body":"And I don't think so because I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":586.453,"endTime":592.473,"body":"think we are doing very, very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":592.643,"endTime":596.633,"body":"small things, very detailed"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":592.643,"endTime":596.633,"body":"things, which cost significant"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":596.653,"endTime":601.063,"body":"amount of money, but the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":596.653,"endTime":601.063,"body":"benefits are very small."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":602.123,"endTime":607.546,"body":"So, in my view, they shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":602.123,"endTime":607.546,"body":"be the things that we are doing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":607.551,"endTime":607.771,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":608.566,"endTime":611.306,"body":"and, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":608.566,"endTime":611.306,"body":"know, I will actually go one"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":611.336,"endTime":615.366,"body":"step further and, talking"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":611.336,"endTime":615.366,"body":"about the buildings and say,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":615.95,"endTime":617.833,"body":"it is very interest thing."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":617.983,"endTime":624.249,"body":"When you look at any kind of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":617.983,"endTime":624.249,"body":"science research in the fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":624.269,"endTime":627.901,"body":"safety science profession,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":624.269,"endTime":627.901,"body":"where is this taking place?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":628.291,"endTime":629.951,"body":"Well, the overwhelming."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":631.651,"endTime":634.548,"body":"Majority is for big buildings."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":635.448,"endTime":639.348,"body":"And of course, nowadays there"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":635.448,"endTime":639.348,"body":"is for transport also for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":639.703,"endTime":640.483,"body":"Mm mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":640.488,"endTime":641.348,"body":"things like that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":641.808,"endTime":646.708,"body":"But in buildings overwhelmingly,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":641.808,"endTime":646.708,"body":"it is for big buildings."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":647.328,"endTime":651.658,"body":"You know, like people will write"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":647.328,"endTime":651.658,"body":"about evacuation model and the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":651.658,"endTime":655.418,"body":"evacuation models are always"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":651.658,"endTime":655.418,"body":"for some high rise building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":655.863,"endTime":658.001,"body":"not a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":655.863,"endTime":658.001,"body":"single community dwelling."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":658.235,"endTime":659.005,"body":"yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":659.345,"endTime":662.465,"body":"But if you look at the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":659.345,"endTime":662.465,"body":"Americans that the six and I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":662.465,"endTime":665.215,"body":"think in any country in the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":662.465,"endTime":665.215,"body":"world, they're pretty similar."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":666.195,"endTime":669.845,"body":"The bulk of fire deaths"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":666.195,"endTime":669.845,"body":"are within people, houses,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":670.745,"endTime":672.165,"body":"not within big buildings."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":672.785,"endTime":675.525,"body":"So it's obviously very important"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":672.785,"endTime":675.525,"body":"to keep big buildings safe"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":675.555,"endTime":678.865,"body":"because, if there is a big fire,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":675.555,"endTime":678.865,"body":"there'll be a big disaster."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":679.605,"endTime":683.681,"body":"But the point is that, we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":679.605,"endTime":683.681,"body":"are need even more emphasis."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":684.178,"endTime":688.925,"body":"on houses because that is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":684.178,"endTime":688.925,"body":"where, if you are gonna be the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":688.925,"endTime":693.085,"body":"unfortunate victim who will die"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":688.925,"endTime":693.085,"body":"in a fire overwhelmingly, that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":693.105,"endTime":697.365,"body":"is most likely to be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":693.105,"endTime":697.365,"body":"something like 80% will be in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":697.405,"endTime":699.405,"body":"a house, not in a big building."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":700.235,"endTime":704.805,"body":"So one of the things that I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":700.235,"endTime":704.805,"body":"will go back in my profession"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":705.065,"endTime":708.035,"body":"and tell you a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":705.065,"endTime":708.035,"body":"a name, which you probably"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":708.035,"endTime":709.511,"body":"have never heard of, Dr."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":709.691,"endTime":716.205,"body":"Bud Leven and, Bud Leven, when"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":709.691,"endTime":716.205,"body":"I went to work for NIST in 1977,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":717.052,"endTime":718.491,"body":"Bud Leven was already there."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":718.491,"endTime":720.011,"body":"He had been there"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":718.491,"endTime":720.011,"body":"a couple years."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":720.131,"endTime":723.811,"body":"I don't know when he"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":720.131,"endTime":723.811,"body":"started, but he was a PhD."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":724.545,"endTime":725.338,"body":"Psychologist."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":726.001,"endTime":733.048,"body":"And he was working on, the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":726.001,"endTime":733.048,"body":"human, behavior aspects and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":733.178,"endTime":739.138,"body":"fires and what he realized"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":733.178,"endTime":739.138,"body":"in the, late 1970s and very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":739.138,"endTime":744.288,"body":"early 1980s, is that the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":739.138,"endTime":744.288,"body":"most important area where"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":744.288,"endTime":749.768,"body":"he can make an impact is on"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":744.288,"endTime":749.768,"body":"human behavior in houses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":749.958,"endTime":750.248,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":751.188,"endTime":755.558,"body":"And so he,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":751.188,"endTime":755.558,"body":"wrote a very early model called"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":755.779,"endTime":760.905,"body":"exitt and it's E X I, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":755.779,"endTime":760.905,"body":"the, and there's two letters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":761.575,"endTime":761.695,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":762.115,"endTime":766.601,"body":"TT and that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":762.115,"endTime":766.601,"body":"was a very early model of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":767.181,"endTime":773.481,"body":"how you evacuate a house,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":767.181,"endTime":773.481,"body":"but what he realized."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":773.93,"endTime":777.463,"body":"Is that, it's not a simple"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":773.93,"endTime":777.463,"body":"thing, because he was a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":777.463,"endTime":780.903,"body":"psychologist, so he knew about"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":777.463,"endTime":780.903,"body":"some things about how people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":781.323,"endTime":786.423,"body":"behave and he knew that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":781.323,"endTime":786.423,"body":"if you see most, evacuation"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":786.423,"endTime":792.626,"body":"models, assume that soon as"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":786.423,"endTime":792.626,"body":"there is a fire alarm, that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":792.626,"endTime":798.443,"body":"there are people who will,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":792.626,"endTime":798.443,"body":"progress either walking or"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":798.443,"endTime":802.98,"body":"running at a high speed, from"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":798.443,"endTime":802.98,"body":"where they are to the exit."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":803.92,"endTime":805.25,"body":"And, what, Dr."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":805.5,"endTime":808.306,"body":"Levin discovered, when"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":805.5,"endTime":808.306,"body":"he studied actual."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":808.763,"endTime":813.206,"body":"Incidents of, fires and what"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":808.763,"endTime":813.206,"body":"happened in these fires."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":813.226,"endTime":816.486,"body":"And he worked together with"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":813.226,"endTime":816.486,"body":"also, very now I think,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":817.166,"endTime":820.065,"body":"somewhat forgotten, at"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":817.166,"endTime":820.065,"body":"professor John Bryan at,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":820.073,"endTime":821.143,"body":"university of Maryland."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":821.333,"endTime":823.583,"body":"He's a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":821.333,"endTime":823.583,"body":"remembered, I think today."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":824.523,"endTime":828.71,"body":"And, professor Bryan was a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":824.523,"endTime":828.71,"body":"fire protection engineer, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":828.71,"endTime":830.95,"body":"they both shared this interest"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":828.71,"endTime":830.95,"body":"and they both did this work."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":831.08,"endTime":835.063,"body":"Let's find out how people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":831.08,"endTime":835.063,"body":"evacuate and how, how they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":835.063,"endTime":838.996,"body":"behave in the fire and,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":835.063,"endTime":838.996,"body":"evacuation being part of how"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":839.233,"endTime":844.11,"body":"they behave in a fire and what,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":839.233,"endTime":844.11,"body":"Bud Levin started finding out"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.95,"body":"and professor Bryan also found"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.95,"body":"out is that it's very complex."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":849.05,"endTime":854.15,"body":"Is that usually when there's"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":849.05,"endTime":854.15,"body":"a fire in your house, say."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":854.568,"endTime":856.908,"body":"You do not run from the fire."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":857.528,"endTime":858.908,"body":"You run towards the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":859.088,"endTime":859.378,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":859.518,"endTime":863.778,"body":"So the first"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":859.518,"endTime":863.778,"body":"step is to run towards the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":863.888,"endTime":869.738,"body":"fire and you investigate, and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":863.888,"endTime":869.738,"body":"then you may or may not take"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":869.738,"endTime":872.378,"body":"action depending what you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":869.738,"endTime":872.378,"body":"find from the investigation."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":873.748,"endTime":878.191,"body":"And then you make some decision"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":873.748,"endTime":878.191,"body":"and only then do you take"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":878.251,"endTime":881.328,"body":"the next, step, which may be,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":878.251,"endTime":881.328,"body":"several different choices."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":881.831,"endTime":888.135,"body":"And so we had in the 1970s and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":881.831,"endTime":888.135,"body":"1980s, we had these studies"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":889.771,"endTime":895.678,"body":"what happens in fires, which"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":889.771,"endTime":895.678,"body":"are statistically the important"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":896.008,"endTime":897.118,"body":"fires, namely in houses."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":898.418,"endTime":903.311,"body":"And then after about"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":898.418,"endTime":903.311,"body":"mid 1980s,  we have."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":903.621,"endTime":904.551,"body":"Forgotten that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":905.248,"endTime":908.578,"body":"And I went, and looked"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":905.248,"endTime":908.578,"body":"through, a couple years ago."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":908.638,"endTime":912.385,"body":"We, have had a series of these,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":908.638,"endTime":912.385,"body":"symposia called human behavior"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":912.485,"endTime":917.068,"body":"and fires, which are, very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":912.485,"endTime":917.068,"body":"specialized they're important"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":917.261,"endTime":918.861,"body":"scientific, conferences."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":919.641,"endTime":922.021,"body":"And they have published all"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":919.641,"endTime":922.021,"body":"the papers and you can look"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":922.021,"endTime":924.861,"body":"through the papers and you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":922.021,"endTime":924.861,"body":"can find out what people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":924.861,"endTime":930.541,"body":"were studying and people were"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":924.861,"endTime":930.541,"body":"overwhelmingly studying fires,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":931.281,"endTime":933.141,"body":"not in residential houses."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":934.201,"endTime":938.886,"body":"So, it's like this, stories of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":934.201,"endTime":938.886,"body":"how, you know, the policeman"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":938.906,"endTime":942.853,"body":"and the drunk on the street and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":938.906,"endTime":942.853,"body":"the drunk is stumbling around,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":943.146,"endTime":947.546,"body":"and he's looking for something"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":943.146,"endTime":947.546,"body":"and, uh, policeman says, he,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":947.806,"endTime":949.306,"body":"you know, what are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":949.566,"endTime":951.706,"body":"Man says, well, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":949.566,"endTime":951.706,"body":"looking for something."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":952.476,"endTime":954.936,"body":"And, uh, the policeman says,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":952.476,"endTime":954.936,"body":"what are you looking for?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":955.596,"endTime":957.016,"body":"Man says, I lost my keys."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":957.916,"endTime":960.816,"body":"And, uh, policeman says,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":957.916,"endTime":960.816,"body":"where did you lose them?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":961.316,"endTime":965.856,"body":"And, uh, the man says over in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":961.316,"endTime":965.856,"body":"these bushes and the policeman"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":965.856,"endTime":968.816,"body":"says, well, why are you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":965.856,"endTime":968.816,"body":"looking under the street lamp?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":969.396,"endTime":971.726,"body":"And the man says, well, because"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":969.396,"endTime":971.726,"body":"the light are good there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":972.121,"endTime":972.411,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":972.666,"endTime":975.72,"body":"And, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":972.666,"endTime":975.72,"body":"so that's a traditional joke"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":975.82,"endTime":979.52,"body":"of the, the stupid man who is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":975.82,"endTime":979.52,"body":"looking in the wrong place."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":980.26,"endTime":982.6,"body":"But as researchers,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":980.26,"endTime":982.6,"body":"I think we need to,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":982.765,"endTime":984.41,"body":"understand this joke and."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":985.046,"endTime":989.826,"body":"Use it appropriately that we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":985.046,"endTime":989.826,"body":"should not be doing research"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":989.826,"endTime":992.506,"body":"under the street line, just"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":989.826,"endTime":992.506,"body":"because the light is good."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":992.506,"endTime":996.066,"body":"There, we should be doing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":992.506,"endTime":996.066,"body":"research where it's needed,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":996.326,"endTime":999.506,"body":"not, where it's, easy"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":996.326,"endTime":999.506,"body":"and convenient to do now."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1000.366,"endTime":1003.936,"body":"You know, one thing, uh, I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1000.366,"endTime":1003.936,"body":"do wanna say that I, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1003.936,"endTime":1008.933,"body":"accusing people personally of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1003.936,"endTime":1008.933,"body":"acting unwisely because often"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1009.113,"endTime":1013.333,"body":"it is the funding institutions"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1009.113,"endTime":1013.333,"body":"that are the problem."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1013.673,"endTime":1016.886,"body":"In other words, if they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1013.673,"endTime":1016.886,"body":"fund research projects,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1017.096,"endTime":1021.963,"body":"for a evacuation of, a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1017.096,"endTime":1021.963,"body":"office buildings and do not"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1021.963,"endTime":1026.238,"body":"fund, research on, human"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1021.963,"endTime":1026.238,"body":"behavior and houses, Then,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1026.238,"endTime":1029.198,"body":"of course the professors"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1026.238,"endTime":1029.198,"body":"will study the former, not"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1029.198,"endTime":1033.438,"body":"the latter because that's"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1029.198,"endTime":1033.438,"body":"what they can get paid to do."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1034.178,"endTime":1036.905,"body":"But, you know, we need to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1034.178,"endTime":1036.905,"body":"think about our, funding"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1037.095,"endTime":1042.865,"body":"processes because the houses"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1037.095,"endTime":1042.865,"body":"are where we are losing people."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1043.845,"endTime":1047.555,"body":"And so why  we are spending"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1043.845,"endTime":1047.555,"body":"proportionately less effort"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1047.615,"endTime":1053.115,"body":"and less money now in 2022"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1047.615,"endTime":1053.115,"body":"on this problem than we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1053.115,"endTime":1055.115,"body":"were in 1970s and 1980s."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1055.975,"endTime":1060.075,"body":"And I think that's very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1055.975,"endTime":1060.075,"body":"strange and I would, I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1060.075,"endTime":1060.835,"body":"would like that to change."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1061.285,"endTime":1061.575,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1061.669,"endTime":1063.085,"body":"that's a fascinating journey."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1063.631,"endTime":1067.038,"body":"and this point of view"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1063.631,"endTime":1067.038,"body":"you've presented from early"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1067.108,"endTime":1071.188,"body":"seventies or eighties where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1067.108,"endTime":1071.188,"body":"the fire science would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1071.248,"endTime":1073.658,"body":"be focused on, let's say."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1073.996,"endTime":1076.496,"body":"The down to earth problems"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1073.996,"endTime":1076.496,"body":"like fires and houses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1076.896,"endTime":1080.456,"body":"I think that's the time where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1076.896,"endTime":1080.456,"body":"the smoke sensors became a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1080.456,"endTime":1083.779,"body":"thing, in houses that's the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1080.456,"endTime":1083.779,"body":"around the time where, house"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1083.779,"endTime":1085.34,"body":"sprinklers were invented."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1085.96,"endTime":1089.873,"body":"So, there has been a lot of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1085.96,"endTime":1089.873,"body":"innovation, in this regard, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1089.873,"endTime":1094.71,"body":"then some sort of fork happens,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1089.873,"endTime":1094.71,"body":"the industry has split into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1094.853,"endTime":1098.776,"body":"like parallel worlds, maybe even"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1094.853,"endTime":1098.776,"body":"more than two, one Following"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1098.796,"endTime":1102.453,"body":"the, the fire resistance and,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1098.796,"endTime":1102.453,"body":"doing business as, as usual"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1102.803,"endTime":1106.36,"body":"testing things, applications,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1102.803,"endTime":1106.36,"body":"other being, a world of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1106.36,"endTime":1109.6,"body":"science and engineering,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1106.36,"endTime":1109.6,"body":"where you would use big word"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1109.6,"endTime":1113.646,"body":"performance based engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1109.6,"endTime":1113.646,"body":"to design your perfect, system"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1114.166,"endTime":1116.703,"body":"cattered that for a certain,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1114.166,"endTime":1116.703,"body":"occupancy or certain building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1117.693,"endTime":1122.346,"body":"and now I think we are in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1117.693,"endTime":1122.346,"body":"this a, acrobatics where we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1122.646,"endTime":1126.89,"body":"try to, merge this somehow"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1122.646,"endTime":1126.89,"body":"together we try to do that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1126.91,"endTime":1129.6,"body":"We try to join performance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1126.91,"endTime":1129.6,"body":"based engineering and fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1129.6,"endTime":1132.183,"body":"testing, for example, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1129.6,"endTime":1132.183,"body":"improve on the fire testing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1132.183,"endTime":1135.103,"body":"because we see where it is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1132.183,"endTime":1135.103,"body":"lacking even more than ever."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1135.963,"endTime":1140.43,"body":"And, also because on how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1135.963,"endTime":1140.43,"body":"fundamental it became for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1140.43,"endTime":1143.87,"body":"modern industry, it's not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1140.43,"endTime":1143.87,"body":"something you can just replace"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1143.87,"endTime":1147.23,"body":"that easily because it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1143.87,"endTime":1147.23,"body":"at the cornerstone of every"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1147.23,"endTime":1148.35,"body":"single building being built"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1148.488,"endTime":1150.088,"body":"Well, let"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1148.488,"endTime":1150.088,"body":"me say a few words about"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1150.088,"endTime":1153.451,"body":"performance based engineering,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1150.088,"endTime":1153.451,"body":"because back in the late"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1153.771,"endTime":1156.351,"body":"1990s, I actually wrote,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1153.771,"endTime":1156.351,"body":"I think it was a series of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1156.351,"endTime":1160.528,"body":"three papers on that topic"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1156.351,"endTime":1160.528,"body":"because I was very concerned"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1160.528,"endTime":1162.348,"body":"about what, was happening."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1162.688,"endTime":1166.148,"body":"And the context of that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1162.688,"endTime":1166.148,"body":"was that at that time, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1166.148,"endTime":1169.148,"body":"know, many countries around"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1166.148,"endTime":1169.148,"body":"the world were setting up"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1169.148,"endTime":1172.738,"body":"systems of, a performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1169.148,"endTime":1172.738,"body":"based, design for fire safety."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1173.198,"endTime":1178.971,"body":"And I was selected to be a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1173.198,"endTime":1178.971,"body":"us represe into the process"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1179.201,"endTime":1183.835,"body":"that Japan was doing to,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1179.201,"endTime":1183.835,"body":"establish a performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1183.835,"endTime":1185.501,"body":"based, guidelines over there."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1186.201,"endTime":1188.821,"body":"So I got to see things"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1186.201,"endTime":1188.821,"body":"very intimately, not just."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1189.105,"endTime":1191.698,"body":"From United States, not just"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1189.105,"endTime":1191.698,"body":"from, learning a foreign"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1191.698,"endTime":1194.618,"body":"countries activities, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1191.698,"endTime":1194.618,"body":"actually from participating"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1194.688,"endTime":1199.315,"body":"in that process in a, country"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1194.688,"endTime":1199.315,"body":"different from mine and I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1199.315,"endTime":1203.501,"body":"got to be very concerned and,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1199.315,"endTime":1203.501,"body":"Japan happened to be a very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1203.601,"endTime":1209.281,"body":"bright, positive, exception"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1203.601,"endTime":1209.281,"body":"to what I saw, but what in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1209.281,"endTime":1213.161,"body":"the everywhere else in the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1209.281,"endTime":1213.161,"body":"world that I looked at."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1213.261,"endTime":1217.761,"body":"And I think the UK was the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1213.261,"endTime":1217.761,"body":"worst from what I could see"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1217.761,"endTime":1220.465,"body":"though, I didn't examine"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1217.761,"endTime":1220.465,"body":"every country's activities,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1221.005,"endTime":1222.425,"body":"things were in bad shape."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1222.485,"endTime":1225.415,"body":"And let, let me just sort"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1222.485,"endTime":1225.415,"body":"of tell you a little bit"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1225.415,"endTime":1228.075,"body":"about what the problems"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1225.415,"endTime":1228.075,"body":"were the, performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1228.075,"endTime":1229.795,"body":"based design is sort of a."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1230.645,"endTime":1232.505,"body":"By itself kind of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1230.645,"endTime":1232.505,"body":"a neutral process."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1232.725,"endTime":1235.665,"body":"It can be good,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1232.725,"endTime":1235.665,"body":"bad or indifferent."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1236.045,"endTime":1241.751,"body":"But what I realized, a very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1236.045,"endTime":1241.751,"body":"soon is that what you really"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1241.821,"endTime":1248.392,"body":"need to focus on is what are"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1241.821,"endTime":1248.392,"body":"the, criteria for assessing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1248.501,"endTime":1251.471,"body":"this a performance based design."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1251.915,"endTime":1257.985,"body":"And, so there, the two extremes"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1251.915,"endTime":1257.985,"body":"I will point out is the one that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1257.985,"endTime":1263.025,"body":"they were developing in Japan"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1257.985,"endTime":1263.025,"body":"versus in the UK, in Japan."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1263.47,"endTime":1266.311,"body":"what they said, I thought"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1263.47,"endTime":1266.311,"body":"was just, perfect."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1267.181,"endTime":1269.831,"body":"What they said is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1267.181,"endTime":1269.831,"body":"there's a fire safety."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1270.605,"endTime":1273.985,"body":"Pie and we'll divide"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1270.605,"endTime":1273.985,"body":"the pie into slices."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1274.525,"endTime":1278.091,"body":"In other words, subsystems"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1274.525,"endTime":1278.091,"body":"of, fire safety, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1278.091,"endTime":1283.265,"body":"like, fire resistance, smoke,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1278.091,"endTime":1283.265,"body":"the, notification systems,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1283.325,"endTime":1284.105,"body":"et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1284.515,"endTime":1290.081,"body":"And we will establish a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1284.515,"endTime":1290.081,"body":"performance based criterion"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1290.228,"endTime":1292.248,"body":"for each particular subsystem."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1293.148,"endTime":1298.971,"body":"Now we will allow you the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1293.148,"endTime":1298.971,"body":"designer to make designs of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1299.161,"endTime":1304.655,"body":"various kinds, according to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1299.161,"endTime":1304.655,"body":"various principles and ideas."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1305.315,"endTime":1308.045,"body":"But when you have made"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1305.315,"endTime":1308.045,"body":"the design, there's"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1308.045,"endTime":1313.005,"body":"going to be some sort of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1308.045,"endTime":1313.005,"body":"quantitative rule or formula."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1313.533,"endTime":1319.263,"body":"for each pie slice, how"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1313.533,"endTime":1319.263,"body":"to assess whether you have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1319.613,"endTime":1323.62,"body":"succeeded in having a minimum"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1319.613,"endTime":1323.62,"body":"acceptable, performance."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1324.38,"endTime":1326.02,"body":"I achieved in that design."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1327.0,"endTime":1328.98,"body":"So that was the idea in Japan."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1329.08,"endTime":1331.663,"body":"And I thought that's how"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1329.08,"endTime":1331.663,"body":"things should happen."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1332.173,"endTime":1337.78,"body":"Well, in the UK, they took"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1332.173,"endTime":1337.78,"body":"the extreme opposite approach."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1337.93,"endTime":1342.276,"body":"They actually wrote into the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1337.93,"endTime":1342.276,"body":"preface of their document"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1342.693,"endTime":1346.453,"body":"saying that the client"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1342.693,"endTime":1346.453,"body":"meaning the architecture,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1346.47,"endTime":1348.946,"body":"developer, whoever uh, wants"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1346.47,"endTime":1348.946,"body":"to build this building."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1349.823,"endTime":1354.96,"body":"And the government official"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1349.823,"endTime":1354.96,"body":"shall sit down and together,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1356.06,"endTime":1358.283,"body":"decide on a level of safety."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1359.643,"endTime":1362.063,"body":"As the starting"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1359.643,"endTime":1362.063,"body":"point of the process."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1363.0,"endTime":1367.476,"body":"And I thought to myself,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1363.0,"endTime":1367.476,"body":"this must be one of the many"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1368.186,"endTime":1373.686,"body":"definitions of insanity,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1368.186,"endTime":1373.686,"body":"because there is no way"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1374.716,"endTime":1378.663,"body":"that a reasonable society"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1374.716,"endTime":1378.663,"body":"should tolerate this."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1379.303,"endTime":1383.133,"body":"I mean, the same thing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1379.303,"endTime":1383.133,"body":"as if, you were to say,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1383.163,"endTime":1387.44,"body":"well, I have just, badly"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1383.163,"endTime":1387.44,"body":"beaten up some person."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1387.75,"endTime":1388.04,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1388.62,"endTime":1392.763,"body":"So me and the policeman will"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1388.62,"endTime":1392.763,"body":"get the together and we will"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1392.983,"endTime":1395.663,"body":"decide on, the acceptable"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1395.856,"endTime":1400.823,"body":"level beating a citizen, and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1395.856,"endTime":1400.823,"body":"then we'll go from there."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1401.326,"endTime":1403.883,"body":"I think most people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1401.326,"endTime":1403.883,"body":"realize that is not okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1403.903,"endTime":1408.423,"body":"In other words, in, the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1403.903,"endTime":1408.423,"body":"English speaking world, we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1408.423,"endTime":1413.893,"body":"have had a long history that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1408.423,"endTime":1413.893,"body":"where we say that the rule"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1414.073,"endTime":1417.911,"body":"of men and no, dishonored"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1414.073,"endTime":1417.911,"body":"to women here, but that's"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1417.911,"endTime":1420.231,"body":"traditional old time statement."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1420.891,"endTime":1425.015,"body":"The rule of men has been"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1420.891,"endTime":1425.015,"body":"replaced by the rule of law,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1425.875,"endTime":1430.565,"body":"and that was in England way"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1425.875,"endTime":1430.565,"body":"back, many centuries ago"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1430.635,"endTime":1434.475,"body":"when king first allowed a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1430.635,"endTime":1434.475,"body":"parliament to be formed."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1435.175,"endTime":1439.295,"body":"And for the citizens to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1435.175,"endTime":1439.295,"body":"actually, have some input"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1439.485,"endTime":1444.428,"body":"into how the laws are written,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1439.485,"endTime":1444.428,"body":"that it's not just the king"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1444.798,"endTime":1448.788,"body":"shall say that I like you,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1444.798,"endTime":1448.788,"body":"therefore I will give you money."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1449.228,"endTime":1450.348,"body":"I don't like you."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1450.378,"endTime":1455.018,"body":"Therefore I'll put you in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1450.378,"endTime":1455.018,"body":"prison, said we have a system"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1455.018,"endTime":1459.978,"body":"of laws that tell us what can"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1455.018,"endTime":1459.978,"body":"be done and what cannot be done."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1460.088,"endTime":1463.785,"body":"Well, in my view, what,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1460.088,"endTime":1463.785,"body":"the British concept."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1464.166,"endTime":1467.266,"body":"Was to reverse this"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1464.166,"endTime":1467.266,"body":"thousand years or whatever"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1467.486,"endTime":1469.463,"body":"of legal, progress."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1469.913,"endTime":1475.506,"body":"And to go back to the rule of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1469.913,"endTime":1475.506,"body":"men before there was a rule"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1475.526,"endTime":1480.236,"body":"of law, I view that as total,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1475.526,"endTime":1480.236,"body":"craziness, but so, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1480.306,"endTime":1484.426,"body":"nowaday is, a performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1480.306,"endTime":1484.426,"body":"based design what, what comes"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1484.496,"endTime":1488.52,"body":"down to is the conscience"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1484.496,"endTime":1488.52,"body":"of the a practitioner."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1489.54,"endTime":1494.91,"body":"In other words, if you are"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1489.54,"endTime":1494.91,"body":"an honest person intending"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1494.93,"endTime":1500.546,"body":"to do a good safety job, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1494.93,"endTime":1500.546,"body":"may, work very well in the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1500.546,"endTime":1502.306,"body":"performance based design system."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1502.886,"endTime":1509.26,"body":"But, if you are a person of,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1502.886,"endTime":1509.26,"body":"poor ethical quality, and you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1509.26,"endTime":1514.98,"body":"are working in a performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1509.26,"endTime":1514.98,"body":"based design system then,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1515.446,"endTime":1520.333,"body":"you are, likely to, do some"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1515.446,"endTime":1520.333,"body":"really inappropriate things."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1520.673,"endTime":1523.363,"body":"Now, you know what people on"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1520.673,"endTime":1523.363,"body":"the opposite side will tell"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1523.363,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"me, well, yeah, that may"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1523.363,"endTime":1528.17,"body":"be true, but we have a peer"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1528.17,"endTime":1532.397,"body":"review system, that, it's,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1528.17,"endTime":1532.397,"body":"what if you make a performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1532.397,"endTime":1537.254,"body":"based design, we'll send this"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1532.397,"endTime":1537.254,"body":"out to a, a peer reviewer."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1537.474,"endTime":1540.534,"body":"Yeah, I say that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1537.474,"endTime":1540.534,"body":"really is not okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1540.844,"endTime":1547.984,"body":"Because again, it's extremely,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1540.844,"endTime":1547.984,"body":"based on personalities that in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1547.984,"endTime":1549.444,"body":"most cases, what will happen."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1550.539,"endTime":1554.272,"body":"is that people do not wanna"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1550.539,"endTime":1554.272,"body":"criticize somebody else's"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1554.272,"endTime":1559.555,"body":"professional work because they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1554.272,"endTime":1559.555,"body":"feel that, tomorrow will be,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1559.625,"endTime":1560.782,"body":"the tables will be turned."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1560.945,"endTime":1562.285,"body":"but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1560.945,"endTime":1562.285,"body":"also with the, with the peer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1562.285,"endTime":1565.332,"body":"review, you, if you are not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1562.285,"endTime":1565.332,"body":"clear about the goals or."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1566.092,"endTime":1569.129,"body":"Or expectations if they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1566.092,"endTime":1569.129,"body":"are not strict, what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1569.149,"endTime":1570.209,"body":"are you peer reviewing?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1570.229,"endTime":1573.045,"body":"Are you peer reviewing,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1570.229,"endTime":1573.045,"body":"someone's skill in performing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1573.505,"endTime":1576.682,"body":"CFD, or are you really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1573.505,"endTime":1576.682,"body":"interviewing the safety that is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1576.682,"endTime":1579.725,"body":"being delivered on the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1576.682,"endTime":1579.725,"body":"and, and the peer, the peer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1579.725,"endTime":1582.405,"body":"review is just a part of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1579.725,"endTime":1582.405,"body":"process and the issue is not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1582.405,"endTime":1585.555,"body":"with it being there or not, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1582.405,"endTime":1585.555,"body":"the goal is not being defined."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1585.555,"endTime":1585.795,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1586.098,"endTime":1587.442,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1586.098,"endTime":1587.442,"body":"yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1587.632,"endTime":1587.922,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1587.922,"endTime":1592.27,"body":"So, so you that I think is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1587.922,"endTime":1592.27,"body":"one and you see, I, it'd"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1592.27,"endTime":1595.121,"body":"rather surprise me that I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1592.27,"endTime":1595.121,"body":"thought that, When public"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1595.301,"endTime":1598.889,"body":"in the late 1990s made a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1595.301,"endTime":1598.889,"body":"bunch of noise on this topic."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1599.369,"endTime":1602.605,"body":"I thought that there would be"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1599.369,"endTime":1602.605,"body":"other people that this would,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1602.619,"endTime":1606.165,"body":"promote a dialogue and promote"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1602.619,"endTime":1606.165,"body":"a lot of, discussion within"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1606.385,"endTime":1608.955,"body":"the profession did not happen."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1609.295,"endTime":1611.435,"body":"So, I went out to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1609.295,"endTime":1611.435,"body":"doing other things."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1611.635,"endTime":1614.535,"body":"I can't just sort of keep"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1611.635,"endTime":1614.535,"body":"beating on something, but,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1614.672,"endTime":1618.495,"body":"I thought we did not have a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1614.672,"endTime":1618.495,"body":"very good, resolution to that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1618.835,"endTime":1624.225,"body":"And, you know, the, way"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1618.835,"endTime":1624.225,"body":"things are in the US today"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1625.085,"endTime":1627.825,"body":"is that it's an interesting"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1625.085,"endTime":1627.825,"body":"situation because,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1628.192,"endTime":1629.802,"body":"performance based design."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1630.932,"endTime":1633.315,"body":"Is not used a great deal."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1633.475,"endTime":1636.635,"body":"I mean, it is certainly"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1633.475,"endTime":1636.635,"body":"known and accepted, but it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1636.635,"endTime":1640.395,"body":"is not used a great deal"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1636.635,"endTime":1640.395,"body":"where it is used primarily"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1641.095,"endTime":1643.115,"body":"is for, very big projects"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1643.2,"endTime":1643.49,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1643.782,"endTime":1646.249,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1643.782,"endTime":1646.249,"body":"for, very big projects."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1646.669,"endTime":1651.399,"body":"You generally really do"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1646.669,"endTime":1651.399,"body":"you to use that because the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1651.399,"endTime":1655.439,"body":"prescriptive codes, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1651.399,"endTime":1655.439,"body":"if you're gonna design a sports"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1655.569,"endTime":1661.559,"body":"arena or you're gonna design"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1655.569,"endTime":1661.559,"body":"an airport terminal or giant"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1661.719,"endTime":1665.325,"body":"projects like that, that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1661.719,"endTime":1665.325,"body":"prescriptive codes are really"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1665.505,"endTime":1669.579,"body":"not designed to cope very well"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1665.505,"endTime":1669.579,"body":"with that type of project."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1670.439,"endTime":1673.982,"body":"people naturally, tend to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1670.439,"endTime":1673.982,"body":"need to use, performance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1673.982,"endTime":1678.46,"body":"based design, but you know"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1673.982,"endTime":1678.46,"body":"what, mostly it's okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1679.21,"endTime":1684.854,"body":"Because there are the people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1679.21,"endTime":1684.854,"body":"who get the very big projects"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1685.754,"endTime":1690.454,"body":"are very well known firms, very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1685.754,"endTime":1690.454,"body":"well established firms, and they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1690.454,"endTime":1695.82,"body":"tend to have, uh, decent, people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1690.454,"endTime":1695.82,"body":"there who are very concerned"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1695.82,"endTime":1696.98,"body":"about their reputation."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1697.01,"endTime":1700.3,"body":"Very concerned about the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1697.01,"endTime":1700.3,"body":"firm's reputation and,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1700.627,"endTime":1704.797,"body":"try to do a very, an"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1700.627,"endTime":1704.797,"body":"honest and, correct job."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1705.657,"endTime":1709.941,"body":"But you see what, what was"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1705.657,"endTime":1709.941,"body":"the, the feeling, back in the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1710.381,"endTime":1715.037,"body":"1990s is that, this thing would"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1710.381,"endTime":1715.037,"body":"percolate, all the way down"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1715.297,"endTime":1719.111,"body":"to, much, smaller projects,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1715.297,"endTime":1719.111,"body":"which I don't know about"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1719.121,"endTime":1721.751,"body":"other countries, but, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1719.121,"endTime":1721.751,"body":"know, in the us that is not."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1722.067,"endTime":1723.287,"body":"Uh, that has not happened."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1723.427,"endTime":1723.896,"body":"You know, if"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1724.082,"endTime":1726.156,"body":"I'll"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1724.082,"endTime":1726.156,"body":"tell You how it in Poland."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1726.242,"endTime":1729.202,"body":"it's quite interesting because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1726.242,"endTime":1729.202,"body":"we have a very, like, very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1729.222,"endTime":1733.192,"body":"strict prescriptive code, our,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1729.222,"endTime":1733.192,"body":"all these super, but there's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1733.252,"endTime":1735.512,"body":"one, uh, little point in it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1735.672,"endTime":1739.222,"body":"where it says that the smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1735.672,"endTime":1739.222,"body":"controls should be designed."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1739.362,"endTime":1741.502,"body":"So it provides"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1739.362,"endTime":1741.502,"body":"sufficient conditions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1741.502,"endTime":1742.622,"body":"for evacuation of people."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1743.522,"endTime":1746.422,"body":"And that's a performance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1743.522,"endTime":1746.422,"body":"based design statement in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1746.422,"endTime":1750.609,"body":"prescriptive code that opened"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1746.422,"endTime":1750.609,"body":"the whole world of, performance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1750.609,"endTime":1753.729,"body":"based design in smoke control,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1750.609,"endTime":1753.729,"body":"obviously based around"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1753.729,"endTime":1757.519,"body":"ASET/RSET concept, which you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1753.729,"endTime":1757.519,"body":"were already kind to criticize"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1757.739,"endTime":1761.786,"body":"in one of the papers that I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1757.739,"endTime":1761.786,"body":"know, but it did democratize"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1761.786,"endTime":1764.466,"body":"performance based design up"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1761.786,"endTime":1764.466,"body":"to even the smallest projects."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1764.806,"endTime":1769.066,"body":"So wherever you have smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1764.806,"endTime":1769.066,"body":"control and you know that it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1769.086,"endTime":1772.736,"body":"is maybe unwise to design it,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1769.086,"endTime":1772.736,"body":"letter by letter by the code,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1772.736,"endTime":1775.286,"body":"because it's inefficient in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1772.736,"endTime":1775.286,"body":"that matter, economically"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1775.286,"endTime":1777.812,"body":"inefficient, you can optimize"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1775.286,"endTime":1777.812,"body":"it quite well with the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1777.812,"endTime":1778.692,"body":"performance based design."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1779.106,"endTime":1782.406,"body":"so this came back all the way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1779.106,"endTime":1782.406,"body":"down to all of the projects."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1782.946,"endTime":1785.286,"body":"And now today, , it is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1782.946,"endTime":1785.286,"body":"just a part of engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1785.286,"endTime":1787.366,"body":"It's, it's not anymore"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1785.286,"endTime":1787.366,"body":"performance based engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1787.366,"endTime":1790.036,"body":"It's engineering, we engineer,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1787.366,"endTime":1790.036,"body":"uh, smoke control systems."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1790.096,"endTime":1792.436,"body":"We have a set of goals"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1790.096,"endTime":1792.436,"body":"that we achieve them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1792.496,"endTime":1796.156,"body":"And in a way I think this is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1792.496,"endTime":1796.156,"body":"efficient, but it also opened"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1797.252,"endTime":1801.532,"body":"a lot of dead ends a lot of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1797.252,"endTime":1801.532,"body":"traps for people because when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1801.642,"endTime":1805.992,"body":"competitors could not, not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1801.642,"endTime":1805.992,"body":"compete on the design of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1805.992,"endTime":1810.072,"body":"systems anymore, they started"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1805.992,"endTime":1810.072,"body":"competing about design fires or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1810.072,"endTime":1813.862,"body":"soot yield ratios,  if I make"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1810.072,"endTime":1813.862,"body":"simulations for my building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1813.862,"endTime":1816.902,"body":"with 10 megawats and you do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1813.862,"endTime":1816.902,"body":"yours with two megawats and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1816.902,"endTime":1820.232,"body":"your soot yield is for ethanol,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1816.902,"endTime":1820.232,"body":"and I do,  polyurethane foam,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1820.342,"endTime":1823.702,"body":"well, your system is certainly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1820.342,"endTime":1823.702,"body":"better than mine, right?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1824.562,"endTime":1824.782,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1825.067,"endTime":1825.357,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1825.544,"endTime":1827.764,"body":"in this,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1825.544,"endTime":1827.764,"body":"in this loop, we've lost"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1827.764,"endTime":1830.891,"body":"this, or we maybe we never"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1827.764,"endTime":1830.891,"body":"had this capability, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1830.891,"endTime":1832.571,"body":"know, to control the beast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1832.871,"endTime":1834.051,"body":"The beast was unleashed."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1834.671,"endTime":1837.851,"body":"And as with your policeman"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1834.671,"endTime":1837.851,"body":"and the drunk man, it started"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1837.851,"endTime":1840.471,"body":"looking, in the places where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1837.851,"endTime":1840.471,"body":"it was brightest or, or in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1840.471,"endTime":1843.941,"body":"places where it was easiest, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1840.471,"endTime":1843.941,"body":"not necessarily in the places"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1843.951,"endTime":1845.421,"body":"where it should have been."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1845.891,"endTime":1846.951,"body":"so that, that's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1846.951,"endTime":1850.117,"body":"And I also know that you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1846.951,"endTime":1850.117,"body":"are largely involved in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1850.447,"endTime":1853.797,"body":"whole of your career in,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1850.447,"endTime":1853.797,"body":"in forensics litigation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1854.097,"endTime":1858.437,"body":"And, I also assume that, much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1854.097,"endTime":1858.437,"body":"of your work is inspired by"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1858.537,"endTime":1861.547,"body":"the tragedies that happened"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1858.537,"endTime":1861.547,"body":"and, and seeking a way out."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1861.767,"endTime":1864.504,"body":"And I've listened to some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1861.767,"endTime":1864.504,"body":"of talks recently about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1864.504,"endTime":1866.937,"body":"ammonium nitrate and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1864.504,"endTime":1866.937,"body":"electrical fires as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1867.317,"endTime":1870.926,"body":"So, Was it also something that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1867.317,"endTime":1870.926,"body":"was fueling research in, let's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1870.926,"endTime":1874.126,"body":"say seventies, eighties, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1870.926,"endTime":1874.126,"body":"you maybe do not see it now,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1874.186,"endTime":1875.586,"body":"or , what's your perspective?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1875.846,"endTime":1878.136,"body":"Well, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1875.846,"endTime":1878.136,"body":"know, we, basically learn"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1878.196,"endTime":1880.536,"body":"almost nothing from real fires."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1880.716,"endTime":1885.362,"body":"And that to me is tragic"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1880.716,"endTime":1885.362,"body":"that the, there has to be,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1885.362,"endTime":1887.236,"body":"to learn from real fires."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1887.566,"endTime":1894.466,"body":"There has to be some mechanisms"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1887.566,"endTime":1894.466,"body":"for doing that and we don't"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1894.536,"endTime":1896.742,"body":"have those mechanisms."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1896.882,"endTime":1900.522,"body":"So, what I think, learning from"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1896.882,"endTime":1900.522,"body":"fires, you could sort of divide"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1900.992,"endTime":1906.802,"body":"into, two categories, learning"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1900.992,"endTime":1906.802,"body":"from very, important fires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1906.832,"endTime":1907.252,"body":"mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1907.942,"endTime":1910.856,"body":"or learning"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1907.942,"endTime":1910.856,"body":"from, routine fires."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1911.026,"endTime":1913.256,"body":"Those are kind of two"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1911.026,"endTime":1913.256,"body":"ways of looking at it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1913.356,"endTime":1918.256,"body":"Now, the one thing that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1913.356,"endTime":1918.256,"body":"to me is very interesting."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1919.076,"endTime":1923.644,"body":"And again, speaking from the us,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1919.076,"endTime":1923.644,"body":"if we have a airplane that falls"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1923.714,"endTime":1929.097,"body":"down from the sky, we have an,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1923.714,"endTime":1929.097,"body":"government agency called NTSB,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1929.787,"endTime":1935.567,"body":"which goes and has technical"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1929.787,"endTime":1935.567,"body":"people that investigate at"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1935.767,"endTime":1940.887,"body":"accident in great detail and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1935.767,"endTime":1940.887,"body":"find out what happened, why it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1941.127,"endTime":1943.407,"body":"happened, how to prevent it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1944.045,"endTime":1947.19,"body":"they write reports, they,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1944.045,"endTime":1947.19,"body":"you know, have dialogue with"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1947.25,"endTime":1949.477,"body":"the affected, manufacturers."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1950.484,"endTime":1953.837,"body":"it's, a very, very,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1950.484,"endTime":1953.837,"body":"well developed system."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1954.617,"endTime":1960.144,"body":"But if we have a major"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1954.617,"endTime":1960.144,"body":"fire that they place in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1960.144,"endTime":1964.039,"body":"the United States,  we have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1960.144,"endTime":1964.039,"body":"absolutely no such system."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1964.885,"endTime":1967.865,"body":"we nowadays typically what"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1964.885,"endTime":1967.865,"body":"happens in response to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1967.865,"endTime":1971.265,"body":"the fire is that we have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1967.865,"endTime":1971.265,"body":"a federal agency called,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1971.341,"endTime":1974.435,"body":"Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1971.341,"endTime":1974.435,"body":"Firearms, and Explosives that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1974.474,"endTime":1976.409,"body":"comes in and investigates."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1977.269,"endTime":1981.915,"body":"But they are, kind of an"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1977.269,"endTime":1981.915,"body":"interesting agency because"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1981.915,"endTime":1986.835,"body":"they're primarily criminal"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1981.915,"endTime":1986.835,"body":"investigation agency and they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1986.835,"endTime":1990.875,"body":"generally do not make any kind"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1986.835,"endTime":1990.875,"body":"of a report on what they do."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1991.305,"endTime":1994.075,"body":"They disappear and make a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1991.305,"endTime":1994.075,"body":"report, which you cannot get."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1995.135,"endTime":1998.335,"body":"So that does not"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1995.135,"endTime":1998.335,"body":"really help anybody."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1998.475,"endTime":2002.295,"body":"And especially if there is no"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":1998.475,"endTime":2002.295,"body":"crime, then it doesn't even"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2002.295,"endTime":2003.815,"body":"help put anybody in prison."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2004.485,"endTime":2005.905,"body":"and we have nothing else,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2006.51,"endTime":2008.25,"body":"But,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2006.51,"endTime":2008.25,"body":"but this is the major fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2008.55,"endTime":2010.05,"body":"And what about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2008.55,"endTime":2010.05,"body":"the bulk of fires?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2010.05,"endTime":2012.93,"body":"The ones that you said"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2010.05,"endTime":2012.93,"body":"there are 80% residential."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2013.286,"endTime":2013.565,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2013.999,"endTime":2017.589,"body":"and for those, we also"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2013.999,"endTime":2017.589,"body":"don't have anything."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2017.769,"endTime":2020.439,"body":"Now, what I'm gonna tell you a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2017.769,"endTime":2020.439,"body":"little bit about the forensic"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2020.799,"endTime":2022.879,"body":"practice in the us and tell you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2020.799,"endTime":2022.879,"body":"what I think should be done."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2023.739,"endTime":2028.149,"body":"You see in the us, if you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2023.739,"endTime":2028.149,"body":"have just any, not in major"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2028.219,"endTime":2032.085,"body":"fire, but any kind of a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2028.219,"endTime":2032.085,"body":"fire that is, non-trivial."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2032.795,"endTime":2036.931,"body":"What will happen is that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2032.795,"endTime":2036.931,"body":"usually the building is insured."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2036.941,"endTime":2037.361,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2037.951,"endTime":2040.044,"body":"So, the first"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2037.951,"endTime":2040.044,"body":"thing that'll happen, however,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2040.504,"endTime":2043.774,"body":"is the, fire department will"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2040.504,"endTime":2043.774,"body":"come and deal with the fire."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2043.954,"endTime":2047.154,"body":"And then there will be typically"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2043.954,"endTime":2047.154,"body":"a Lieutenant or a captain"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2047.414,"endTime":2050.604,"body":"and the fire service who"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2047.414,"endTime":2050.604,"body":"will, write, write a report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2051.434,"endTime":2054.237,"body":"And, that will be the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2051.434,"endTime":2054.237,"body":"statistical report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2054.817,"endTime":2059.717,"body":"If it's a slightly bigger"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2054.817,"endTime":2059.717,"body":"fire, there will be an addition"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2059.717,"endTime":2061.157,"body":"to the statistical report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2061.607,"endTime":2064.797,"body":"There will be a textual"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2061.607,"endTime":2064.797,"body":"report, a narrative report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2065.017,"endTime":2069.587,"body":"And that is usually there will"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2065.017,"endTime":2069.587,"body":"be a different type of Sonnel"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2070.147,"endTime":2073.707,"body":"a fire investigator or arson"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2070.147,"endTime":2073.707,"body":"squad or people like that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2074.337,"endTime":2078.264,"body":"That'll be sent out to do"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2074.337,"endTime":2078.264,"body":"that, but even this specialized"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2078.264,"endTime":2082.624,"body":"person from the fire department,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2078.264,"endTime":2082.624,"body":"even if it's a significant"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2082.894,"endTime":2086.517,"body":"fire, you know, unless there"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2082.894,"endTime":2086.517,"body":"is just a giant loss of life,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2087.015,"endTime":2090.481,"body":"typically they will, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2087.015,"endTime":2090.481,"body":"spend a, maybe three, four"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2090.481,"endTime":2092.361,"body":"hours and write their report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2093.061,"endTime":2097.971,"body":"Now, the, if it's a bigger fire,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2093.061,"endTime":2097.971,"body":"the next thing that will happen"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2098.351,"endTime":2101.967,"body":"is that, There'll be insurance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2098.351,"endTime":2101.967,"body":"company or companies involved,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2102.907,"endTime":2106.434,"body":"and they all send, private fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2102.907,"endTime":2106.434,"body":"investigators and the private"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2106.544,"endTime":2110.847,"body":"fire investigator, may spend"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2106.544,"endTime":2110.847,"body":"four days rather than four hours"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2111.147,"endTime":2115.817,"body":"at the fire scene because they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2111.147,"endTime":2115.817,"body":"will really, they'll be asked"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2115.877,"endTime":2119.294,"body":"to find a out the details of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2115.877,"endTime":2119.294,"body":"what happened and their budget"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2119.634,"endTime":2124.014,"body":"is usually much bigger than the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2119.634,"endTime":2124.014,"body":"budget at the fire department."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2124.674,"endTime":2126.894,"body":"So they don't have to run"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2124.674,"endTime":2126.894,"body":"away after four hours."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2127.564,"endTime":2131.561,"body":"They can, investigate more"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2127.564,"endTime":2131.561,"body":"carefully and, on the basis"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2131.701,"endTime":2133.161,"body":"of that and make a report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2133.559,"endTime":2137.549,"body":"and it's usually,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2133.559,"endTime":2137.549,"body":"professional, detailed, report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2138.449,"endTime":2141.523,"body":"The problem with that is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2138.449,"endTime":2141.523,"body":"that, unless you're a forensic"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2141.743,"endTime":2145.228,"body":"expert, Like me and you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2141.743,"endTime":2145.228,"body":"show up in the courtroom,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2146.288,"endTime":2148.028,"body":"nobody ever sees that report."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2149.008,"endTime":2152.628,"body":"So if you don't see anything,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2149.008,"endTime":2152.628,"body":"you can't learn from it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2153.168,"endTime":2158.581,"body":"Now, what I, have suggested to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2153.168,"endTime":2158.581,"body":"the profession, which, people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2158.601,"endTime":2162.731,"body":"are not listened to, but still"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2158.601,"endTime":2162.731,"body":"it's a good suggestion is that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2162.731,"endTime":2166.911,"body":"there's an easy way to fix"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2162.731,"endTime":2166.911,"body":"this because we have, a number"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2167.091,"endTime":2171.511,"body":"of insurance companies in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2167.091,"endTime":2171.511,"body":"America and they are generally"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2171.571,"endTime":2175.011,"body":"big corporations and they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2171.571,"endTime":2175.011,"body":"are generally, long term."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2175.031,"endTime":2178.921,"body":"In other words, they don't start"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2175.031,"endTime":2178.921,"body":"up and shut down and disappear"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2178.921,"endTime":2179.841,"body":"in the middle of the night."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2180.191,"endTime":2183.028,"body":"They generally, invested"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2180.191,"endTime":2183.028,"body":"in the long term."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2183.728,"endTime":2185.264,"body":"So they're around"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2183.728,"endTime":2185.264,"body":"for a long time."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2185.404,"endTime":2191.443,"body":"Now, what they consider is that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2185.404,"endTime":2191.443,"body":"Report is proprietary and it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2191.443,"endTime":2196.683,"body":"simply goes into a file folder"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2191.443,"endTime":2196.683,"body":"where nobody else can see it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2197.063,"endTime":2202.889,"body":"Now, what I think, should"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2197.063,"endTime":2202.889,"body":"happen is that the, insurance"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2203.369,"endTime":2209.839,"body":"industry should get together"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2203.369,"endTime":2209.839,"body":"and say that we can improve fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2209.899,"endTime":2212.599,"body":"safety if we learn from fires."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2213.499,"endTime":2218.716,"body":"So what we should do is we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2213.499,"endTime":2218.716,"body":"should take these reports and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2218.716,"endTime":2222.786,"body":"we should take away the names"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2218.716,"endTime":2222.786,"body":"and the addresses from there."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2223.579,"endTime":2227.866,"body":"Then we should find a way to,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2223.579,"endTime":2227.866,"body":"distribute that information and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2227.896,"endTime":2232.463,"body":"make it publicly available and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2227.896,"endTime":2232.463,"body":"do some form of, aggregation,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2232.573,"endTime":2233.783,"body":"compilation analysis."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2235.178,"endTime":2238.791,"body":"so that, the people could"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2235.178,"endTime":2238.791,"body":"learn and that safety"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2238.841,"endTime":2243.831,"body":"could be improved, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2238.841,"endTime":2243.831,"body":"that is not happening."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2244.331,"endTime":2250.051,"body":"And, the industry in America has"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2244.331,"endTime":2250.051,"body":"actually taken steps backwards"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2250.361,"endTime":2255.891,"body":"because, back, 50 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2250.361,"endTime":2255.891,"body":"the, insurance industry used to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2255.891,"endTime":2259.931,"body":"have something called a national"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2255.891,"endTime":2259.931,"body":"board of fire underwriters."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2260.774,"endTime":2266.884,"body":"And they were a technical arm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2260.774,"endTime":2266.884,"body":"of the fire insurance business."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2267.854,"endTime":2271.848,"body":"And they had engineers, they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2267.854,"endTime":2271.848,"body":"had technical people, they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2271.848,"endTime":2276.214,"body":"had resources, they published"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2271.848,"endTime":2276.214,"body":"things, they investigated"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2276.214,"endTime":2280.401,"body":"things and they published"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2276.214,"endTime":2280.401,"body":"things and it wasn't, a major"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2280.401,"endTime":2281.921,"body":"effort, but still it was."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2282.244,"endTime":2284.384,"body":"an effort and that disappeared."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2285.004,"endTime":2287.304,"body":"In other words, they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2285.004,"endTime":2287.304,"body":"closed that activity down."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2287.304,"endTime":2291.413,"body":"They just merged it into"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2287.304,"endTime":2291.413,"body":"the purely, lobbying"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2291.413,"endTime":2292.853,"body":"kind of organization."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2293.423,"endTime":2297.053,"body":"There is no more anything"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2293.423,"endTime":2297.053,"body":"of that work, that national"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2297.053,"endTime":2298.493,"body":"board of fire underwriters you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2299.378,"endTime":2300.908,"body":"They"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2299.378,"endTime":2300.908,"body":"have computers for that now."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2301.658,"endTime":2301.948,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2301.973,"endTime":2302.373,"body":"that's right."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2302.373,"endTime":2305.333,"body":"They did not have computers"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2302.373,"endTime":2305.333,"body":"in the 1960s, but they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2305.333,"endTime":2306.173,"body":"were able to do that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2307.033,"endTime":2309.201,"body":"So, this would be a way forward."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2309.621,"endTime":2313.361,"body":"The, insurance business"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2309.621,"endTime":2313.361,"body":"is very widespread."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2313.461,"endTime":2317.481,"body":"You know, it generally"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2313.461,"endTime":2317.481,"body":"is not localized, the one"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2317.511,"endTime":2320.551,"body":"area, one type of building"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2317.511,"endTime":2320.551,"body":"or anything like that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2320.951,"endTime":2324.641,"body":"So, the same thing that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2320.951,"endTime":2324.641,"body":"company, a learns company, B"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2324.641,"endTime":2329.961,"body":"learns and company C learns,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2324.641,"endTime":2329.961,"body":"there's nothing special in what"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2330.261,"endTime":2332.801,"body":"you can learn as company B."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2333.621,"endTime":2337.191,"body":"So, that kind of information"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2333.621,"endTime":2337.191,"body":"I think, should be shared"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2337.331,"endTime":2338.631,"body":"on a industry basis."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2339.508,"endTime":2340.928,"body":"but it's not."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2341.188,"endTime":2345.158,"body":"So I would urge anybody,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2341.188,"endTime":2345.158,"body":"that, you should."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2345.405,"endTime":2349.666,"body":"Try to make some steps that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2345.405,"endTime":2349.666,"body":"your, fire insurance companies"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2350.286,"endTime":2354.772,"body":"should make some, society"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2350.286,"endTime":2354.772,"body":"or group or something where"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2355.202,"endTime":2358.606,"body":"they can share information"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2355.202,"endTime":2358.606,"body":"that, takes away names and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2358.606,"endTime":2362.836,"body":"addresses, but allows technical"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2358.606,"endTime":2362.836,"body":"learning to take place."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.971,"endTime":2365.544,"body":"Uh, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.971,"endTime":2365.544,"body":"will, again, Tell you how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2365.544,"endTime":2367.091,"body":"we, in a way went there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2367.751,"endTime":2370.491,"body":"I'm not representing an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2367.751,"endTime":2370.491,"body":"insurer, but I represent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2370.571,"endTime":2373.491,"body":"a fire laboratory, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2370.571,"endTime":2373.491,"body":"also deals with the same,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2373.551,"endTime":2376.051,"body":"you know, issue, having a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2373.551,"endTime":2376.051,"body":"knowledge that's forbidden"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2376.441,"endTime":2377.811,"body":"because it's proprietary."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2378.191,"endTime":2378.841,"body":"and we've been there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2378.841,"endTime":2380.681,"body":"We we've done that on facades."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2380.681,"endTime":2383.367,"body":"We, we took, we've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2380.681,"endTime":2383.367,"body":"anonymized them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2383.387,"endTime":2387.174,"body":"So we don't, put any bad name"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2383.387,"endTime":2387.174,"body":"over any of the companies"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2387.204,"endTime":2388.624,"body":"that, that we have, served."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2389.084,"endTime":2392.304,"body":"But from that book of knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2389.084,"endTime":2392.304,"body":"some patterns emerge and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2392.304,"endTime":2395.704,"body":"some important knowledge can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2392.304,"endTime":2395.704,"body":"emerge that in fact, leads"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2395.804,"endTime":2402.551,"body":"to better design of systems"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2395.804,"endTime":2402.551,"body":"and no harm can come out"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2402.551,"endTime":2404.431,"body":"of there because if you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2405.111,"endTime":2407.771,"body":"Are a company that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2405.111,"endTime":2407.771,"body":"manufactures something and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2407.771,"endTime":2410.291,"body":"that something causes a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2407.771,"endTime":2410.291,"body":"huge building to burn down."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2410.591,"endTime":2412.411,"body":"You're not gonna have a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2410.591,"endTime":2412.411,"body":"great business either."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2412.911,"endTime":2417.314,"body":"So, finding these issues"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2412.911,"endTime":2417.314,"body":"earlier can actually not only"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2417.384,"endTime":2421.947,"body":"save lives and environment,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2417.384,"endTime":2421.947,"body":"but also actually work in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2421.947,"endTime":2425.391,"body":"favor of the business of those"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2421.947,"endTime":2425.391,"body":"who would be, in their first"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2425.541,"endTime":2427.141,"body":"thought, hiding the information."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2427.521,"endTime":2430.844,"body":"And I think this, issues"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2427.521,"endTime":2430.844,"body":"probably as old as the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2431.044,"endTime":2434.824,"body":"engineering, the ability to get"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2431.044,"endTime":2434.824,"body":"into data and collect it and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2434.824,"endTime":2439.584,"body":"sort it and make it meaningful,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2434.824,"endTime":2439.584,"body":"like finding ways how you could"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2440.044,"endTime":2442.884,"body":"really, really use it in fact."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2443.304,"endTime":2446.644,"body":"And I'm really glad that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2443.304,"endTime":2446.644,"body":"at least from the, science."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2447.654,"endTime":2451.814,"body":"Perspective organizations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2447.654,"endTime":2451.814,"body":"like NIST or UL, they're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2451.834,"endTime":2453.174,"body":"openly sharing their data."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2453.374,"endTime":2456.734,"body":"I mean, not from litigations,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2453.374,"endTime":2456.734,"body":"but from experiments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2456.794,"endTime":2460.577,"body":"And this is very well welcomed,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2456.794,"endTime":2460.577,"body":"thing you've also provided"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2460.577,"endTime":2463.231,"body":"with ignition handbook, data"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2460.577,"endTime":2463.231,"body":"with, uh, which could be used."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2463.371,"endTime":2467.251,"body":"And, this is also very,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2463.371,"endTime":2467.251,"body":"well received item."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2467.297,"endTime":2469.604,"body":"I know many people actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2467.297,"endTime":2469.604,"body":"bought the book for the data"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2470.714,"endTime":2473.084,"body":"with all the knowledge, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2470.714,"endTime":2473.084,"body":"that, that, that is true."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2473.144,"endTime":2475.684,"body":"You, you need good data to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2473.144,"endTime":2475.684,"body":"support your engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2475.864,"endTime":2479.241,"body":"and, in this, few decades"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2475.864,"endTime":2479.241,"body":"of your career, do you think"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2479.411,"endTime":2481.831,"body":"we are improving in the ways"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2479.411,"endTime":2481.831,"body":"how we collect and gather"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2481.901,"endTime":2484.391,"body":"data, or we are running"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2481.901,"endTime":2484.391,"body":"circles like chickens."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2484.962,"endTime":2488.062,"body":"Well,  the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2484.962,"endTime":2488.062,"body":"data systems are quite different"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2488.162,"endTime":2492.159,"body":"in each country and, I have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2488.162,"endTime":2492.159,"body":"only the opportunity to study"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2492.899,"endTime":2494.519,"body":"the data system in America."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2494.979,"endTime":2499.579,"body":"And, you see we in the, over,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2494.979,"endTime":2499.579,"body":"over the 1980s, they, it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2499.979,"endTime":2504.146,"body":"progressively, instituted and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2499.979,"endTime":2504.146,"body":"developed our, a data system"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2504.146,"endTime":2511.634,"body":"is called NFRIS national, fire,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2504.146,"endTime":2511.634,"body":"information, I forget what the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2511.634,"endTime":2512.634,"body":"rest of the letter stand for."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2512.634,"endTime":2512.994,"body":"Anyhow,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2513.009,"endTime":2513.299,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2513.947,"endTime":2516.887,"body":"Before that we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2513.947,"endTime":2516.887,"body":"had nothing really, other than"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2517.567,"endTime":2523.694,"body":"N FPA used to very anecdotally"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2517.567,"endTime":2523.694,"body":"collect, data, very non"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2523.754,"endTime":2527.84,"body":"systematically, but, this became"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2523.754,"endTime":2527.84,"body":"a systematic, collection effort,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2528.22,"endTime":2533.187,"body":"but one thing that, I feel"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2528.22,"endTime":2533.187,"body":"and I've written about that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2533.267,"endTime":2540.884,"body":"whole area that is neglected"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2533.267,"endTime":2540.884,"body":"is the one question that a fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2541.514,"endTime":2543.644,"body":"information data system can ask."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2544.754,"endTime":2549.774,"body":"is how effective are the fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2544.754,"endTime":2549.774,"body":"departments and their activities"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2550.524,"endTime":2555.287,"body":"and the end for a system, in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2550.524,"endTime":2555.287,"body":"America has never been designed"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2555.387,"endTime":2557.447,"body":"to ask those kinds of questions."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2558.187,"endTime":2560.847,"body":"So obviously we can't get any"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2558.187,"endTime":2560.847,"body":"answers because of questions"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2561.017,"endTime":2565.31,"body":"are not asked, but I think"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2561.017,"endTime":2565.31,"body":"you could be, improving the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2565.33,"endTime":2572.39,"body":"system by asking questions that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2565.33,"endTime":2572.39,"body":"would allow you to make some"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2572.66,"endTime":2578.834,"body":"statistical analysis of how"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2572.66,"endTime":2578.834,"body":"successful our fire departments"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2579.724,"endTime":2581.344,"body":"in dealing with their fires."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2582.484,"endTime":2586.534,"body":"And, I do not know why that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2582.484,"endTime":2586.534,"body":"question was never raised,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2586.754,"endTime":2588.734,"body":"but it, it was never raised."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2589.549,"endTime":2593.106,"body":", uh, you know, in,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2589.549,"endTime":2593.106,"body":"Australia back."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2593.592,"endTime":2596.459,"body":"I would say now about 20"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2593.592,"endTime":2596.459,"body":"years ago, they, did some"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2597.139,"endTime":2601.519,"body":"research, did some specific"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2597.139,"endTime":2601.519,"body":"research, in order to develop,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2602.012,"endTime":2606.906,"body":"something that's called fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2602.012,"endTime":2606.906,"body":"brigade intervention manual."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2607.849,"endTime":2613.626,"body":"And what they did is they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2607.849,"endTime":2613.626,"body":"said, that the activities,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2613.969,"endTime":2617.502,"body":"of the fire, primarily,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2613.969,"endTime":2617.502,"body":"run against the clock."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2617.882,"endTime":2622.262,"body":"In other words, it takes so"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2617.882,"endTime":2622.262,"body":"long to do each separate task."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2623.562,"endTime":2627.766,"body":"So what they did in Australia"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2623.562,"endTime":2627.766,"body":"is they, said, let us."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2628.561,"endTime":2634.341,"body":"Make some sort of ad hoc studies"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2628.561,"endTime":2634.341,"body":"and determine how long, it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2634.341,"endTime":2637.581,"body":"takes to bring up a ladder"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2634.341,"endTime":2637.581,"body":"and raise it to the third"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2637.631,"endTime":2639.141,"body":"floor or something like that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2639.641,"endTime":2644.221,"body":"And, how long does it take"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2639.641,"endTime":2644.221,"body":"to, bring a fire hose, down"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2644.241,"endTime":2647.421,"body":"to the basement and charge it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2644.241,"endTime":2647.421,"body":"and start putting water on the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2647.851,"endTime":2648.941,"body":"fire that's in the basement."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2649.741,"endTime":2653.901,"body":"those kinds of questions and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2649.741,"endTime":2653.901,"body":"the, Australians, actually"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2653.951,"endTime":2659.037,"body":"tried to, to answer that, but,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2653.951,"endTime":2659.037,"body":"they were going to sort of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2659.037,"endTime":2662.277,"body":"keep revising that that was"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2659.037,"endTime":2662.277,"body":"gonna be a living document"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2662.577,"endTime":2666.074,"body":"and near, near, as I can tell"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2662.577,"endTime":2666.074,"body":"that, kind of never happened."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2666.85,"endTime":2669.98,"body":"I think those kinds of things"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2666.85,"endTime":2669.98,"body":"do differ quite a bit country"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2670.16,"endTime":2674.37,"body":"by country because, how a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2670.16,"endTime":2674.37,"body":"fire department is organized"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2674.37,"endTime":2677.53,"body":"and now responds in Germany"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2674.37,"endTime":2677.53,"body":"is obviously different from"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2677.53,"endTime":2678.81,"body":"what's happening in Australia."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2679.87,"endTime":2683.144,"body":"So, you really need to do"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2679.87,"endTime":2683.144,"body":"this on, national basis."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2684.324,"endTime":2687.467,"body":"And, I mean, in my own country,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2684.324,"endTime":2687.467,"body":"you know, it's a very rich"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2687.817,"endTime":2689.587,"body":"country, a big country."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2690.727,"endTime":2695.467,"body":"Why is it that we have taken"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2690.727,"endTime":2695.467,"body":"no interest in studying"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2695.687,"endTime":2698.107,"body":"on some engineering basis?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2699.167,"endTime":2701.657,"body":"How fire departments operate?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2702.327,"endTime":2704.458,"body":"You know, it's crazy that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2702.327,"endTime":2704.458,"body":"we haven't done that, but."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2704.931,"endTime":2706.331,"body":"actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2704.931,"endTime":2706.331,"body":"you are looking at the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2706.491,"endTime":2709.574,"body":"holistic picture of fire,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2706.491,"endTime":2709.574,"body":"with firefighter being a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2709.574,"endTime":2710.534,"body":"part of the environment."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2711.151,"endTime":2713.981,"body":"I had Bryan Meacham in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2711.151,"endTime":2713.981,"body":"this, uh, podcast as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2714.871,"endTime":2718.784,"body":"He expressed a view that, our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2714.871,"endTime":2718.784,"body":"system is built under the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2719.007,"endTime":2722.551,"body":"expectation that if someone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2719.007,"endTime":2722.551,"body":"will come in and, and save,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2722.644,"endTime":2725.824,"body":"the building, which may not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2722.644,"endTime":2725.824,"body":"necessarily be the best, way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2725.824,"endTime":2727.784,"body":"to design a safe building,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2725.824,"endTime":2727.784,"body":"maybe the building should,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2728.271,"endTime":2731.091,"body":"uh, save itself, actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2728.271,"endTime":2731.091,"body":"Bryan probably will kill me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2731.291,"endTime":2735.041,"body":"I, twisted his words a lot,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2731.291,"endTime":2735.041,"body":"but dear listeners, please"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2735.061,"endTime":2738.081,"body":"go listen to what Bryan said"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2735.061,"endTime":2738.081,"body":"in Bryan's episode, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2738.141,"endTime":2742.479,"body":"I'm not great at copying that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2738.141,"endTime":2742.479,"body":"however, I know in my, practice,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2742.698,"endTime":2745.816,"body":"the case of firefighters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2742.698,"endTime":2745.816,"body":"coming and rescuing and saving"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2745.836,"endTime":2750.509,"body":"the building is something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2745.836,"endTime":2750.509,"body":"that we also include in our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2750.509,"endTime":2751.469,"body":"performance based analysis."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2751.649,"endTime":2754.549,"body":"You know, there are people who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2751.649,"endTime":2754.549,"body":"calculate how much time it'll"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2754.549,"endTime":2757.166,"body":"take for firefighters to come"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2754.549,"endTime":2757.166,"body":"to decide, how many minutes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2757.346,"endTime":2760.396,"body":"So they end up their SU"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2757.346,"endTime":2760.396,"body":"calculations at that minute,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2760.396,"endTime":2763.916,"body":"because at the point, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2760.396,"endTime":2763.916,"body":"responsibility of is on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2763.916,"endTime":2766.796,"body":"the firefighters, not on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2763.916,"endTime":2766.796,"body":"these systems at all, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2766.796,"endTime":2767.556,"body":"now we bring the case."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2767.576,"endTime":2768.476,"body":"We don't really know."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2768.576,"endTime":2773.166,"body":"We do not have a real life,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2768.576,"endTime":2773.166,"body":"statistics on how efficient"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2773.436,"endTime":2778.142,"body":"this arrival water delivery,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2773.436,"endTime":2778.142,"body":"whatever it was, Was in fact,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2778.509,"endTime":2782.061,"body":"and most of that arriving"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2778.509,"endTime":2782.061,"body":"at the skyscraper or, four"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2782.396,"endTime":2786.346,"body":"floor down car park with deep"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2782.396,"endTime":2786.346,"body":"underground does not really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2786.576,"endTime":2788.066,"body":"mean they've started action."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2788.566,"endTime":2790.626,"body":"It just means that they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2788.566,"endTime":2790.626,"body":"came to the site and,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2790.727,"endTime":2793.059,"body":"it will be different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2790.727,"endTime":2793.059,"body":"for different buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2793.279,"endTime":2797.146,"body":"And here again, we at the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2793.279,"endTime":2797.146,"body":"goals of, fire engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.216,"endTime":2802.189,"body":"that, if you view it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.216,"endTime":2802.189,"body":"holistically, you need to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2802.239,"endTime":2805.989,"body":"understand what will happen"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2802.239,"endTime":2805.989,"body":"to the building in fire that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2806.109,"endTime":2807.579,"body":"I find it really fascinating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.599,"endTime":2810.158,"body":"And, well, I, I also know"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.599,"endTime":2810.158,"body":"this data does not exist."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2810.198,"endTime":2813.338,"body":"I do not have to such"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2810.198,"endTime":2813.338,"body":"data and it would be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2813.848,"endTime":2815.508,"body":"spectacular to have it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2815.954,"endTime":2817.364,"body":"well, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2815.954,"endTime":2817.364,"body":"know, you make a very good"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2817.364,"endTime":2822.124,"body":"point about the expectation"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2817.364,"endTime":2822.124,"body":"of fire service performance,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2822.274,"endTime":2824.944,"body":"because the that's,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2822.274,"endTime":2824.944,"body":"entirely correct."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2825.084,"endTime":2826.224,"body":"And I have not seen."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2827.029,"endTime":2829.799,"body":"That discussed"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2827.029,"endTime":2829.799,"body":"anywhere in my country."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2829.939,"endTime":2833.399,"body":"And you see the big issue"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2829.939,"endTime":2833.399,"body":"here in the United States"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2833.699,"endTime":2838.122,"body":"is that,  there's very big"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2833.699,"endTime":2838.122,"body":"difference between cities and,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2838.535,"endTime":2843.255,"body":"very sparsely populated rural"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2838.535,"endTime":2843.255,"body":"areas that if you live in a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2843.285,"endTime":2847.855,"body":"city and your house catches"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2843.285,"endTime":2847.855,"body":"fire, you can expect the fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2847.855,"endTime":2852.645,"body":"department to show up, say,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2847.855,"endTime":2852.645,"body":"within six minutes now, maybe"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2852.715,"endTime":2856.899,"body":"they don't in some cases, but,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2852.715,"endTime":2856.899,"body":"generally that's would be a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2856.999,"endTime":2858.619,"body":"fairly typical expectation."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2859.599,"endTime":2865.255,"body":"It, if you are on a remote farm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2859.599,"endTime":2865.255,"body":"somewhere, it may, and you have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2865.255,"endTime":2866.895,"body":"a volunteer fire department."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2867.795,"endTime":2872.375,"body":"It may take 45 minutes for"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2867.795,"endTime":2872.375,"body":"somebody to show up there."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2873.355,"endTime":2878.846,"body":"Now,  if the fire department"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2873.355,"endTime":2878.846,"body":"comes up after, 45"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2878.846,"endTime":2883.326,"body":"minutes, the only thing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2878.846,"endTime":2883.326,"body":"they can do is irrigate"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2883.526,"endTime":2885.046,"body":"a smoldering foundation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2885.111,"endTime":2885.531,"body":"Mm-hmm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2886.246,"endTime":2889.676,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2886.246,"endTime":2889.676,"body":"there's absolutely nothing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2890.776,"endTime":2893.836,"body":"useful they can do, even"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2890.776,"endTime":2893.836,"body":"though they feel professionally"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2894.626,"endTime":2899.716,"body":"obligated to go and put on"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2894.626,"endTime":2899.716,"body":"this demonstration of action."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2900.779,"endTime":2903.159,"body":"we know that it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2900.779,"endTime":2903.159,"body":"should know that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2903.199,"endTime":2905.949,"body":"I mean, anybody, you don't"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2903.199,"endTime":2905.949,"body":"have to, to be a fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2905.949,"endTime":2909.129,"body":"safety expert to figure out"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2905.949,"endTime":2909.129,"body":"that, that's the reality."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2909.869,"endTime":2914.562,"body":"So if that's the case, why"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2909.869,"endTime":2914.562,"body":"have we not required say"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2914.592,"endTime":2916.082,"body":"fire sprinklers in all."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2916.837,"endTime":2920.147,"body":"newly built rural houses"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2916.837,"endTime":2920.147,"body":"ever since the 1970s."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2921.114,"endTime":2924.644,"body":"I have no answer to that, but,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2921.114,"endTime":2924.644,"body":"it's a good question to ask"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2924.754,"endTime":2929.764,"body":"because if the fire department"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2924.754,"endTime":2929.764,"body":"is not going to protect you, and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2930.344,"endTime":2934.524,"body":"if they take 45 minutes, they"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2930.344,"endTime":2934.524,"body":"are not going to protect you."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2935.317,"endTime":2938.151,"body":"a sprinkler system would"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2935.317,"endTime":2938.151,"body":"be really worth the money"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2938.301,"endTime":2940.104,"body":"that, it costs to put it in."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2940.409,"endTime":2942.049,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2940.409,"endTime":2942.049,"body":"you've put that in, in past"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2942.399,"endTime":2947.146,"body":"that, we don't really go"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2942.399,"endTime":2947.146,"body":"into cost benefit analysis"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2947.236,"endTime":2950.219,"body":"is, like, the cost of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2947.236,"endTime":2950.219,"body":"sprinkler installation and a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2950.219,"endTime":2952.979,"body":"new house in the rural area, of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2950.219,"endTime":2952.979,"body":"course it exists and it would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2952.979,"endTime":2954.159,"body":"be some amount of dollars."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2954.339,"endTime":2957.359,"body":"But benefits of that, if"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2954.339,"endTime":2957.359,"body":"you take the 45 minutes,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2957.389,"endTime":2958.919,"body":"arrival are insane."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2958.989,"endTime":2961.679,"body":"It's the difference between"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2958.989,"endTime":2961.679,"body":"a smouldering  foundation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2962.299,"endTime":2964.669,"body":"and, a house that smells bad."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2964.776,"endTime":2967.536,"body":"that's the difference"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2964.776,"endTime":2967.536,"body":"foundation versus a bad smell."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2968.036,"endTime":2972.082,"body":"So, I think there's this cost"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2968.036,"endTime":2972.082,"body":"benefit or this effectiveness."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2972.957,"endTime":2978.077,"body":"It's also not something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2972.957,"endTime":2978.077,"body":"visible in the overall system."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2978.857,"endTime":2982.477,"body":"And again, I, I wonder how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2978.857,"endTime":2982.477,"body":"did you, how did this evolve"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2982.617,"endTime":2986.457,"body":"in this, in the history"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2982.617,"endTime":2986.457,"body":"that you observe and, how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2986.457,"endTime":2987.897,"body":"disappointed are you with it?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2988.671,"endTime":2991.041,"body":"well, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2988.671,"endTime":2991.041,"body":"know, I think it's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2992.051,"endTime":2995.901,"body":"bizarre and unacceptable"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2992.051,"endTime":2995.901,"body":"would be maybe a better term"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2996.051,"endTime":2996.341,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2996.684,"endTime":2999.057,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2996.684,"endTime":2999.057,"body":"my profession, has"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":2999.707,"endTime":3002.521,"body":"never paid any interest."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3003.516,"endTime":3008.119,"body":"The cost benefit, ratios"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3003.516,"endTime":3008.119,"body":"of any strategies."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3009.099,"endTime":3014.526,"body":"And, I think it's come from,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3009.099,"endTime":3014.526,"body":"some sort of, maybe innate"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3015.196,"endTime":3016.646,"body":"arrogance point of view."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3017.426,"endTime":3021.369,"body":"In other words, that people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3017.426,"endTime":3021.369,"body":"saying, fire safety is so"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3021.439,"endTime":3025.489,"body":"very, very, very important"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3021.439,"endTime":3025.489,"body":"that the amount of money"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3025.579,"endTime":3027.942,"body":"spent is, should be, ignored."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3028.642,"endTime":3033.869,"body":"I think that is incorrect"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3028.642,"endTime":3033.869,"body":"because, for anything the money"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3033.919,"endTime":3038.782,"body":"spent is, uh, important because"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3033.919,"endTime":3038.782,"body":"there's never an infinite, sum"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3038.782,"endTime":3040.942,"body":"of money available to do things."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3041.042,"endTime":3044.262,"body":"And you always, if you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3041.042,"endTime":3044.262,"body":"spend money on some, one"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3044.262,"endTime":3047.102,"body":"thing, you don't have money"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3044.262,"endTime":3047.102,"body":"to spend on another thing."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3047.962,"endTime":3049.086,"body":"So, it's never."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3049.811,"endTime":3054.421,"body":"Appropriate to say that we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3049.811,"endTime":3054.421,"body":"should just ignore how much"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3054.421,"endTime":3055.791,"body":"money something, costs."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3056.131,"endTime":3060.044,"body":"But, you know, I've watched the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3056.131,"endTime":3060.044,"body":"building code process in the us"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3060.074,"endTime":3067.271,"body":"ever since the 1970s and the,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3060.074,"endTime":3067.271,"body":"cost benefit ratio simp does"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3067.331,"endTime":3072.367,"body":"not come into building code,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3067.331,"endTime":3072.367,"body":"discussions or building code"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3072.457,"endTime":3074.167,"body":"provisions that are accepted."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3074.907,"endTime":3078.681,"body":"And I think, I'm just a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3074.907,"endTime":3078.681,"body":"single professional speaking"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3078.681,"endTime":3083.107,"body":"my own opinions, but I think"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3078.681,"endTime":3083.107,"body":"that is very wrong we should"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3083.691,"endTime":3088.197,"body":"consider, and we should reject,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3083.691,"endTime":3088.197,"body":"proposals that have a poor,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3088.757,"endTime":3090.317,"body":"benefits compared to the cost."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3091.017,"endTime":3095.484,"body":"And we should really promote,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3091.017,"endTime":3095.484,"body":"proposals that have, Low"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3095.484,"endTime":3098.484,"body":"cost Deni benefits, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3095.484,"endTime":3098.484,"body":"we're not doing that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3099.224,"endTime":3101.677,"body":"And, why are we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3099.224,"endTime":3101.677,"body":"not, not doing that?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3101.737,"endTime":3104.311,"body":"You know, there are a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3101.737,"endTime":3104.311,"body":"few, exceptions, like for"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3104.431,"endTime":3107.311,"body":"instance, the consumer product"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3104.431,"endTime":3107.311,"body":"safety commission in the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3107.331,"endTime":3110.954,"body":"us, for some, some of their"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3107.331,"endTime":3110.954,"body":"regulations, the, they actually,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3111.157,"endTime":3115.647,"body":"commissioned, a, cost benefit,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3111.157,"endTime":3115.647,"body":"uh, studies or industry"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3115.957,"endTime":3119.257,"body":"when in an, commissioned"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3115.957,"endTime":3119.257,"body":"cost benefit ratio, studies."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3120.077,"endTime":3123.667,"body":"But those have been"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3120.077,"endTime":3123.667,"body":"extremely few, examples."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3124.447,"endTime":3127.431,"body":"And, the building codes"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3124.447,"endTime":3127.431,"body":"actually, because the consumer"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3127.431,"endTime":3129.231,"body":"price safety commission"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3127.431,"endTime":3129.231,"body":"is something separate."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3129.381,"endTime":3132.831,"body":"It's not related to our"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3129.381,"endTime":3132.831,"body":"building codes and the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3132.951,"endTime":3133.831,"body":"building codes process."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3134.606,"endTime":3136.266,"body":"You just do not see that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3136.816,"endTime":3139.499,"body":"And, Northern the NFPA"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3136.816,"endTime":3139.499,"body":"codes, NFPA codes are"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3139.669,"endTime":3140.989,"body":"more like worldwide."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3140.989,"endTime":3143.629,"body":"There's a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3140.989,"endTime":3143.629,"body":"countries that use them"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3143.629,"endTime":3145.189,"body":"in addition to America."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3145.889,"endTime":3150.516,"body":"And we do not see the issue of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3145.889,"endTime":3150.516,"body":"cost benefit coming into there."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3151.216,"endTime":3156.102,"body":"And I think that is really wrong"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3151.216,"endTime":3156.102,"body":"that, we should be doing that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3156.819,"endTime":3160.206,"body":"and I hope that people start"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3156.819,"endTime":3160.206,"body":"getting smarter enough to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3160.206,"endTime":3162.526,"body":"accept that , because there"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3160.206,"endTime":3162.526,"body":"are a lot of places where"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3162.526,"endTime":3164.846,"body":"we overspend money on fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3164.866,"endTime":3168.086,"body":"safety, but there are"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3164.866,"endTime":3168.086,"body":"also places where we"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3168.086,"endTime":3169.246,"body":"don't spend enough."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3169.634,"endTime":3173.234,"body":"A program  to retrofit certain"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3169.634,"endTime":3173.234,"body":"buildings with sprinklers"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3173.644,"endTime":3177.348,"body":"would have a positive,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3173.644,"endTime":3177.348,"body":"benefit, cost, situation."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3178.194,"endTime":3179.894,"body":"but people generally"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3178.194,"endTime":3179.894,"body":"don't push for that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3180.794,"endTime":3184.751,"body":"So, it's not all just going"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3180.794,"endTime":3184.751,"body":"one way, but it's, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3184.751,"endTime":3187.638,"body":"know, costs are just ignored"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3184.751,"endTime":3187.638,"body":"and that's unfortunate."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3188.108,"endTime":3189.728,"body":"For"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3188.108,"endTime":3189.728,"body":"us, I always bring the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3189.728,"endTime":3192.468,"body":"case of, excessive amounts"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3189.728,"endTime":3192.468,"body":"of fire resistant, walls."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3192.648,"endTime":3195.621,"body":"For example, like you don't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3192.648,"endTime":3195.621,"body":"really need for our fire rated"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3196.231,"endTime":3198.141,"body":"walls in the office office."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3198.251,"endTime":3201.341,"body":"Fire does not last"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3198.251,"endTime":3201.341,"body":"that long that it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3201.341,"endTime":3202.381,"body":"conservation of energy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3202.481,"endTime":3202.821,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3203.411,"endTime":3206.621,"body":"There's many cases in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3203.411,"endTime":3206.621,"body":"which we would overspend"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3206.621,"endTime":3208.461,"body":"because something is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3206.621,"endTime":3208.461,"body":"written in the code."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3208.561,"endTime":3211.341,"body":"And often in the code, it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3208.561,"endTime":3211.341,"body":"was written because you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3211.451,"endTime":3214.661,"body":"need to have progressive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3211.451,"endTime":3214.661,"body":"increase of the requirements."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3214.681,"endTime":3216.501,"body":"So this one is one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3214.681,"endTime":3216.501,"body":"hour, two hours."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3216.571,"endTime":3216.861,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3216.861,"endTime":3219.114,"body":"This one should be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3216.861,"endTime":3219.114,"body":"four, without, without"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3219.134,"endTime":3220.034,"body":"any big proof or."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3220.604,"endTime":3223.574,"body":"Or, you know, someone in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3220.604,"endTime":3223.574,"body":"the seventies said something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3223.674,"endTime":3226.174,"body":"and suddenly for the next 50"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3223.674,"endTime":3226.174,"body":"years, we're doing like that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3226.274,"endTime":3228.014,"body":"in my field in smoke control."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3228.754,"endTime":3231.614,"body":"You would not believe how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3228.754,"endTime":3231.614,"body":"many times in the discussions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3231.674,"endTime":3234.934,"body":"in the European commission,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3231.674,"endTime":3234.934,"body":"when we try to figure out"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3235.154,"endTime":3238.344,"body":"why something is in place,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3235.154,"endTime":3238.344,"body":"we end up in a statement that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3238.344,"endTime":3241.654,"body":"Howard Morgan said, and no"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3238.344,"endTime":3241.654,"body":"one ever questioned because it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3241.654,"endTime":3242.774,"body":"was ho Morgan who said that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3242.774,"endTime":3247.734,"body":"So it was truth, and I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3242.774,"endTime":3247.734,"body":"I really, I really wonder"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3247.994,"endTime":3250.734,"body":"how many things like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3247.994,"endTime":3250.734,"body":"this exist in our system."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3250.734,"endTime":3253.534,"body":"And actually now I I'm actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3250.734,"endTime":3253.534,"body":"scared because probably a lot."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3254.274,"endTime":3258.494,"body":"And, uh, now you mentioned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3254.274,"endTime":3258.494,"body":"there are solutions could add."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3258.533,"endTime":3261.086,"body":"Safety, just two or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3258.533,"endTime":3261.086,"body":"three episodes ago."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3261.166,"endTime":3263.763,"body":"I had, engineer Ingo"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3261.166,"endTime":3263.763,"body":"Riess, from Switzerland."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3263.933,"endTime":3267.686,"body":"Who's dealing with tunnels"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3263.933,"endTime":3267.686,"body":"and, he said some, many,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3267.686,"endTime":3270.886,"body":"many smart things that maybe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3267.686,"endTime":3270.886,"body":"you should not over invest"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3271.026,"endTime":3274.766,"body":"in the safety of a tunnel,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3271.026,"endTime":3274.766,"body":"which in general is one of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3274.766,"endTime":3276.476,"body":"the safest places on the road."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3276.476,"endTime":3278.436,"body":"You can be like, you are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3276.476,"endTime":3278.436,"body":"more safe in a tunnel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3278.466,"endTime":3279.996,"body":"than on an open road."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3280.456,"endTime":3281.796,"body":"And maybe you could"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3280.456,"endTime":3281.796,"body":"take this money."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3282.556,"endTime":3285.256,"body":"And invested in the safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3282.556,"endTime":3285.256,"body":"features in the road network,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3285.806,"endTime":3288.216,"body":"because from the network"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3285.806,"endTime":3288.216,"body":"operator perspective,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3288.356,"endTime":3290.296,"body":"not a tunnel owner, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3288.356,"endTime":3290.296,"body":"network perspective."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3290.966,"endTime":3294.336,"body":"This is a well invested"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3290.966,"endTime":3294.336,"body":"money and same in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3294.816,"endTime":3297.803,"body":"I had Daniel Antonellis her"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3294.816,"endTime":3297.803,"body":"company Kindling is  working"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3298.173,"endTime":3301.863,"body":"to make safety as a, not as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3298.173,"endTime":3301.863,"body":"a privilege, , but as a human"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3301.863,"endTime":3305.289,"body":"right fire safety and she's,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3301.863,"endTime":3305.289,"body":"helping , informal settlements,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3305.309,"endTime":3308.006,"body":"you know, people in poverty"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3305.309,"endTime":3308.006,"body":"getting safety and then you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3308.006,"endTime":3311.766,"body":"think, you know, I I'm spending"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3308.006,"endTime":3311.766,"body":"hours and hours doing very."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3312.296,"endTime":3316.306,"body":"Find CFD for this beautiful"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3312.296,"endTime":3316.306,"body":"skyscraper in Warsaw and then"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3316.306,"endTime":3319.389,"body":"there is 1 billion people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3316.306,"endTime":3319.389,"body":"living in poverty who do not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3319.389,"endTime":3321.269,"body":"have access to any safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3321.419,"endTime":3325.149,"body":"Like I'm not even talking about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3321.419,"endTime":3325.149,"body":"sprinklers or fire detection."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3325.249,"endTime":3327.509,"body":"I'm talking about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3325.249,"endTime":3327.509,"body":"water and electricity."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3327.786,"endTime":3330.716,"body":"they may not have access"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3327.786,"endTime":3330.716,"body":"to this simple tools"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3330.716,"endTime":3332.146,"body":"needed to create safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3332.286,"endTime":3336.113,"body":"So, from a building perspective,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3332.286,"endTime":3336.113,"body":"we do not have cost benefit"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3336.593,"endTime":3339.353,"body":"analysis, but from the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3336.593,"endTime":3339.353,"body":"system perspective, oh boy,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3339.413,"endTime":3343.873,"body":"we really do not invest"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3339.413,"endTime":3343.873,"body":"where it's, uh, needed or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3343.873,"endTime":3344.953,"body":"that's my feeling sometimes."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3345.893,"endTime":3346.903,"body":"yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3347.083,"endTime":3350.599,"body":"So, you know, one thing that I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3347.083,"endTime":3350.599,"body":"would recommend to your, people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3350.599,"endTime":3356.503,"body":"that are list is that the, back"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3350.599,"endTime":3356.503,"body":"in 2013, I published this paper"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3356.523,"endTime":3361.463,"body":"called Some Neglected Areas"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3356.523,"endTime":3361.463,"body":"in Fire Safety Engineering,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3362.123,"endTime":3364.903,"body":"and that is freely available"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3362.123,"endTime":3364.903,"body":"because it's published in this"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3364.903,"endTime":3368.103,"body":"journal called fire science"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3364.903,"endTime":3368.103,"body":"and technology from Tokyo."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3368.363,"endTime":3369.653,"body":"And it's, freely available."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3369.713,"endTime":3371.206,"body":"You don't have to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3369.713,"endTime":3371.206,"body":"pay to download."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3371.936,"endTime":3376.479,"body":"And I think even though it, is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3371.936,"endTime":3376.479,"body":"now, nine years ago, I think,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3376.616,"endTime":3381.106,"body":"well, very, unfortunately"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3376.616,"endTime":3381.106,"body":"I don't see that anything,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3381.683,"endTime":3384.796,"body":"positive has changed , from"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3381.683,"endTime":3384.796,"body":"what I wrote back then."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3385.016,"endTime":3388.886,"body":"So the, I think people, I'm"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3385.016,"endTime":3388.886,"body":"not knocking my profession."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3389.366,"endTime":3390.206,"body":"I do wanna say that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3390.586,"endTime":3392.366,"body":"In other words, I think,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3390.586,"endTime":3392.366,"body":"you know, fire safety"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3392.646,"endTime":3393.326,"body":"engineering has made."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3394.021,"endTime":3396.654,"body":"Big progress in the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3394.021,"endTime":3396.654,"body":"last, so many decades."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3396.954,"endTime":3402.174,"body":"So it is a profession that has,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3396.954,"endTime":3402.174,"body":"done improvements, but, there"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3402.174,"endTime":3406.014,"body":"are certain areas where you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3402.174,"endTime":3406.014,"body":"basically, you cannot have an"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3406.014,"endTime":3408.374,"body":"improvement unless you focus"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3406.014,"endTime":3408.374,"body":"on needing the improvement."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3409.274,"endTime":3414.024,"body":"And so my, suggestion to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3409.274,"endTime":3414.024,"body":"people was to be aware of some"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3414.114,"endTime":3418.624,"body":"areas, which I really neglected"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3414.114,"endTime":3418.624,"body":"and omitted and overlooked."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3419.244,"endTime":3423.144,"body":"And, see if we can raise a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3419.244,"endTime":3423.144,"body":"little bit of consciousness"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3423.334,"endTime":3426.608,"body":"that, a cost effectiveness is,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3423.334,"endTime":3426.608,"body":"well, I'll, I'll just tell you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3426.608,"endTime":3430.398,"body":"what, what those five areas"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3426.608,"endTime":3430.398,"body":"where that, that I wrote about."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3430.588,"endTime":3430.878,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3430.938,"endTime":3434.558,"body":"One is learning from fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3430.938,"endTime":3434.558,"body":"incidents in a systematic way."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3434.818,"endTime":3437.588,"body":"We already talked about that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3434.818,"endTime":3437.588,"body":"that the biggest role would"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3437.608,"endTime":3442.121,"body":"be insurance companies, but"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3437.608,"endTime":3442.121,"body":"also, government investigation."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3443.046,"endTime":3447.416,"body":"Of big fires and, we don't"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3443.046,"endTime":3447.416,"body":"have either of that in the us."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3448.296,"endTime":3451.263,"body":"Studying fires in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3448.296,"endTime":3451.263,"body":"residential houses, why did"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3451.283,"endTime":3451.503,"body":"we,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3451.548,"endTime":3451.908,"body":"with that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3451.908,"endTime":3452.068,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3452.893,"endTime":3453.183,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3453.183,"endTime":3456.223,"body":"Why did we study that in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3453.183,"endTime":3456.223,"body":"seventies and eighties and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3456.253,"endTime":3460.273,"body":"stop after that, collecting"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3456.253,"endTime":3460.273,"body":"statistics which are meaningful."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3460.453,"endTime":3463.503,"body":"So, you know, this, this"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3460.453,"endTime":3463.503,"body":"will be very different from"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3463.503,"endTime":3466.983,"body":"different countries, but I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3463.503,"endTime":3466.983,"body":"think certainly collecting"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3467.433,"endTime":3472.029,"body":"statistics on how effective"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3467.433,"endTime":3472.029,"body":"is your fire department"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3472.029,"endTime":3474.229,"body":"versus the fire department?"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3474.429,"endTime":3477.823,"body":"some other place would be"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3474.429,"endTime":3477.823,"body":"useful, developing cost,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3478.053,"endTime":3483.636,"body":"effective codes and standards"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3478.053,"endTime":3483.636,"body":"we just talked about that and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3483.636,"endTime":3486.876,"body":"finally, we haven't talked"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3483.636,"endTime":3486.876,"body":"about it, but considering"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3487.056,"endTime":3491.596,"body":"the unintended consequences"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3487.056,"endTime":3491.596,"body":"of fire safety provisions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3491.723,"endTime":3492.273,"body":"Let's do that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3492.273,"endTime":3492.553,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3493.328,"endTime":3494.938,"body":"Yeah, let,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3493.328,"endTime":3494.938,"body":"let me make, lemme say a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3494.938,"endTime":3498.708,"body":"few comments about , that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3494.938,"endTime":3498.708,"body":"thing, about a decade ago or"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3498.768,"endTime":3503.158,"body":"so I started to, volunteer"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3498.768,"endTime":3503.158,"body":"some of my efforts to an"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3503.278,"endTime":3507.638,"body":"organization called the green"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3503.278,"endTime":3507.638,"body":"science policy Institute."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3508.658,"endTime":3513.204,"body":"And, they basically tried to,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3508.658,"endTime":3513.204,"body":"to promote, a safer environment"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3513.274,"endTime":3515.284,"body":"from a chemistry point of view."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3516.224,"endTime":3519.404,"body":"And one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3516.224,"endTime":3519.404,"body":"they were working with that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3519.604,"endTime":3524.721,"body":"I, decided to help them is on"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3519.604,"endTime":3524.721,"body":"the issue of flame retardants"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3525.174,"endTime":3530.004,"body":"that, the flame retard have,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3525.174,"endTime":3530.004,"body":"had a very interesting history"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3530.314,"endTime":3532.878,"body":"that, they have gotten to be."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3533.259,"endTime":3539.199,"body":"In some categories to be"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3533.259,"endTime":3539.199,"body":"very widely used and yet"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3539.899,"endTime":3542.846,"body":"of, minimal or zero benefit."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3543.393,"endTime":3546.253,"body":"and so, you know, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3543.393,"endTime":3546.253,"body":"saying that inflammator are,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3546.339,"endTime":3549.746,"body":"useless across the board,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3546.339,"endTime":3549.746,"body":"but I think they're useful"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3549.966,"endTime":3553.936,"body":"in fewer circumstances"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3549.966,"endTime":3553.936,"body":"than people realize."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3554.136,"endTime":3558.176,"body":"I think the biggest"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3554.136,"endTime":3558.176,"body":"positive example is,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3558.839,"endTime":3559.959,"body":"electrical circuit boards."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3561.159,"endTime":3563.719,"body":"I think electrical circuit"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3561.159,"endTime":3563.719,"body":"boards should be made with"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3563.719,"endTime":3568.059,"body":"flame, return materials and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3563.719,"endTime":3568.059,"body":"there's very simple way to"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3568.059,"endTime":3571.019,"body":"explain the science of that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3571.479,"endTime":3576.649,"body":"And that is that these chemical"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3571.479,"endTime":3576.649,"body":"flame returns are effective."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3577.509,"endTime":3580.249,"body":"If the loading of the chemical."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3581.384,"endTime":3585.084,"body":"Is high compared to the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3581.384,"endTime":3585.084,"body":"size of the flame that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3585.084,"endTime":3586.524,"body":"is attacking the object."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3587.104,"endTime":3590.824,"body":"Now we realize this is not a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3587.104,"endTime":3590.824,"body":"quantitative statement, but you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3590.824,"endTime":3593.864,"body":"can find ways of quantitating"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3590.824,"endTime":3593.864,"body":"it in specific circumstances."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3594.884,"endTime":3599.814,"body":"And so, we had this saga in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3594.884,"endTime":3599.814,"body":"the state of California that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3599.884,"endTime":3604.068,"body":"they mandate that upholstered"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3599.884,"endTime":3604.068,"body":"furniture have, foams,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3604.068,"endTime":3608.781,"body":"which are, have chemical,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3604.068,"endTime":3608.781,"body":"inflammatory in and, without"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3609.341,"endTime":3614.381,"body":"adequately studying whether"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3609.341,"endTime":3614.381,"body":"that is doing anything good."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3615.081,"endTime":3621.024,"body":"And once, have studied that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3615.081,"endTime":3621.024,"body":"they found out that it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3621.314,"endTime":3622.874,"body":"doing, something useful."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3622.974,"endTime":3626.611,"body":"And yet, there were big,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3622.974,"endTime":3626.611,"body":"negative issues, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3626.611,"endTime":3629.611,"body":"like for instance, it shows"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3626.611,"endTime":3629.611,"body":"up in mother's breast milk."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3630.136,"endTime":3632.886,"body":"Which is obviously not a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3630.136,"endTime":3632.886,"body":"place where you would want,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3633.506,"endTime":3635.846,"body":"uh, certain jobs to show up."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3636.466,"endTime":3638.246,"body":"It lowers children's IQ."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3638.846,"endTime":3641.886,"body":"I mean, there's been studies of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3638.846,"endTime":3641.886,"body":"that sort, which is obviously"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3641.956,"endTime":3646.486,"body":"very undesirable and then it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3641.956,"endTime":3646.486,"body":"goes into the water and, air"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3646.486,"endTime":3649.508,"body":"and gets into the oceans and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3646.486,"endTime":3649.508,"body":"all kinds of, downstream,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3649.64,"endTime":3651.07,"body":"unintended consequences."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3651.29,"endTime":3654.17,"body":"So there, there have been,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3651.29,"endTime":3654.17,"body":"big concerns and there'll be"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3654.17,"endTime":3659.126,"body":"people that are researching"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3654.17,"endTime":3659.126,"body":"the ecological aspect of that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3659.266,"endTime":3662.046,"body":"And then they don't have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3659.266,"endTime":3662.046,"body":"dialogue with the fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3662.046,"endTime":3665.476,"body":"science people and the fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3662.046,"endTime":3665.476,"body":"science people don't pay any"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3665.476,"endTime":3667.356,"body":"attention to the ecologist."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3667.616,"endTime":3670.516,"body":"So it's, it is been that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3667.616,"endTime":3670.516,"body":"interesting situation."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3670.656,"endTime":3673.64,"body":"And, you know, I was, one"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3670.656,"endTime":3673.64,"body":"of the first people to,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3673.96,"endTime":3679.49,"body":"Volunteer to actually help the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3673.96,"endTime":3679.49,"body":"ecologist community because,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3679.906,"endTime":3683.693,"body":"I felt that, some personal"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3679.906,"endTime":3683.693,"body":"responsibility that, my"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3683.693,"endTime":3685.133,"body":"profession should be doing good."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3685.133,"endTime":3689.76,"body":"It shouldn't be doing things"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3685.133,"endTime":3689.76,"body":"that, have a more negative pro"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3689.89,"endTime":3695.434,"body":"of them than positive, but it,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3689.89,"endTime":3695.434,"body":"it's also very, general issue."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3695.614,"endTime":3698.444,"body":"You know, we, we were,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3695.614,"endTime":3698.444,"body":"our profession was"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3699.154,"endTime":3702.554,"body":"unreservedly recommending"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3699.154,"endTime":3702.554,"body":"asbestos in anything."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3702.554,"endTime":3705.683,"body":"And every thing until people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3702.554,"endTime":3705.683,"body":"found out how dangerous"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3705.683,"endTime":3709.363,"body":"asbestos is, and they never"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3705.683,"endTime":3709.363,"body":"were thinking about the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3709.363,"endTime":3712.963,"body":"dangers of asbestos before"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3709.363,"endTime":3712.963,"body":"they were happily using it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3713.46,"endTime":3716.98,"body":"there's a whole number of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3713.46,"endTime":3716.98,"body":"examples like that, where people"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3716.99,"endTime":3721.02,"body":"focus narrowly on something"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3716.99,"endTime":3721.02,"body":"and say, Let's just go and jump"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3721.04,"endTime":3723.26,"body":"and do this without thinking."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3723.72,"endTime":3726.26,"body":"Is there maybe an unintended"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3723.72,"endTime":3726.26,"body":"consequence and that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3726.26,"endTime":3729.46,"body":"consequence is negative and"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3726.26,"endTime":3729.46,"body":"maybe that oughta stop you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3729.867,"endTime":3732.327,"body":"in, in your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3729.867,"endTime":3732.327,"body":"paper, you also mentioned halons"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3732.39,"endTime":3737.443,"body":"and this is something, that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3732.39,"endTime":3737.443,"body":"fascinating to me because from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3737.443,"endTime":3739.843,"body":"the first look halons are magic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3740.153,"endTime":3741.723,"body":"They, they stop the reactions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3741.723,"endTime":3743.843,"body":"They stop the fire at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3741.723,"endTime":3743.843,"body":"the chemical level."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3744.333,"endTime":3747.363,"body":"We're not even talking about the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3744.333,"endTime":3747.363,"body":"conservation of energy ignition."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3747.363,"endTime":3751.203,"body":"No, they, they stopped the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3747.363,"endTime":3751.203,"body":"chemistry, but on the second"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3751.233,"endTime":3755.243,"body":"view and the reason why they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3751.233,"endTime":3755.243,"body":"are not used anymore is that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3755.393,"endTime":3759.603,"body":"they are very disastrous"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3755.393,"endTime":3759.603,"body":"for the oxygen layer."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3760.113,"endTime":3763.153,"body":"Like they are as good"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3760.113,"endTime":3763.153,"body":"as stopping as they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3763.153,"endTime":3764.073,"body":"are destroying ox."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3764.173,"endTime":3766.233,"body":"Uh, the ozone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3764.173,"endTime":3766.233,"body":"layer, ozone layer."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3766.263,"endTime":3766.553,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3766.763,"endTime":3768.502,"body":"Ozone command Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3768.502,"endTime":3770.682,"body":"That I understand that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3768.502,"endTime":3770.682,"body":"but now now we understand"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3770.722,"endTime":3774.022,"body":"a lot of more about the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3770.722,"endTime":3774.022,"body":"environmental impact of fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3774.842,"endTime":3779.382,"body":"So what is actually worse, a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3774.842,"endTime":3779.382,"body":"release of halon that stops fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3780.042,"endTime":3784.662,"body":"or the fire itself with EITs"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3780.042,"endTime":3784.662,"body":"CO2, which EITs a lot of many,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3784.852,"endTime":3786.442,"body":"many different, , chemicals."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3787.082,"endTime":3789.795,"body":"So I really wonder if"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3787.082,"endTime":3789.795,"body":"after halons were banned,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3789.795,"endTime":3791.115,"body":"there was any discussion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3791.425,"endTime":3795.355,"body":"what is actually worse, having"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3791.425,"endTime":3795.355,"body":"a fires or having a release"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3795.355,"endTime":3796.662,"body":"of a, of this substance."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3797.163,"endTime":3799.053,"body":"well,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3797.163,"endTime":3799.053,"body":"you know, halogen was so"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3799.223,"endTime":3803.349,"body":"of interesting because it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3799.223,"endTime":3803.349,"body":"was, specialized niche."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3803.729,"endTime":3806.829,"body":"You know, in other words, you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3803.729,"endTime":3806.829,"body":"did not have that for protecting"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3806.829,"endTime":3811.505,"body":"houses, which you added as for"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3806.829,"endTime":3811.505,"body":"you know, libraries, computer"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3811.715,"endTime":3817.235,"body":"rooms fires, some, aircraft"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3811.715,"endTime":3817.235,"body":"hangers, you know, things of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3817.385,"endTime":3822.787,"body":"that sort that, uh, were very"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3817.385,"endTime":3822.787,"body":"narrow technical areas and the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3822.787,"endTime":3827.507,"body":"hell solutions were adopted"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3822.787,"endTime":3827.507,"body":"before anybody gave any thoughts"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3827.577,"endTime":3829.137,"body":"that their, it be anything"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3829.342,"endTime":3829.632,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3830.297,"endTime":3832.097,"body":"negative"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3830.297,"endTime":3832.097,"body":"other than the cost of"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3832.097,"endTime":3833.057,"body":"having to pay for it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3833.674,"endTime":3837.892,"body":"and then, you know, that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3833.674,"endTime":3837.892,"body":"realization, came later, but,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3838.282,"endTime":3841.516,"body":"I think,  today's perspective,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3838.282,"endTime":3841.516,"body":"what I think should be done"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3841.536,"endTime":3843.116,"body":"and I'm not seeing being done."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3843.136,"endTime":3849.776,"body":"Is that any proposal of doing"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3843.136,"endTime":3849.776,"body":"anything in fire safety, I"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3849.776,"endTime":3853.689,"body":"think should be evaluated with"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3849.776,"endTime":3853.689,"body":"a cost benefit assessment that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3853.829,"endTime":3857.129,"body":"you know, if you're gonna have"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3853.829,"endTime":3857.129,"body":"a, a product standard or a"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3857.289,"endTime":3861.359,"body":"building code regulation or"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3857.289,"endTime":3861.359,"body":"a UL standard of some sort or"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3861.599,"endTime":3865.719,"body":"anything, I think you should"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3861.599,"endTime":3865.719,"body":"consider the, the cost benefit"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3866.059,"endTime":3867.724,"body":"of what you're proposing."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3868.544,"endTime":3870.798,"body":"And, that is not done."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3871.585,"endTime":3877.795,"body":"we still, we have not changed"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3871.585,"endTime":3877.795,"body":"that mentality in any way that,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3878.185,"endTime":3883.842,"body":"we adopt fire safety provisions,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3878.185,"endTime":3883.842,"body":"unthinkingly that just because"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3884.502,"endTime":3886.145,"body":"we think, fire is terrible."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3886.955,"endTime":3888.695,"body":"And fire safety is a good thing."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3888.725,"endTime":3892.215,"body":"Therefore, if somebody can"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3888.725,"endTime":3892.215,"body":"convince us that this is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3892.655,"endTime":3897.675,"body":"a valid fire safety, tool,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3892.655,"endTime":3897.675,"body":"we will use it even though,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3897.925,"endTime":3901.315,"body":"there may be, negative"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3897.925,"endTime":3901.315,"body":"aspects and problems with it."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3901.375,"endTime":3905.152,"body":"And I think I mean that, that is"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3901.375,"endTime":3905.152,"body":"a sign of an immature profession"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3905.702,"endTime":3909.172,"body":"the immature profession should"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3905.702,"endTime":3909.172,"body":"consider, the pluses and the"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3909.202,"endTime":3910.932,"body":"minuses of what people do."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3911.752,"endTime":3915.812,"body":"And if they just are full"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3911.752,"endTime":3915.812,"body":"of enthusiasm and run away"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3915.812,"endTime":3919.642,"body":"with a, uh, what they think"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3915.812,"endTime":3919.642,"body":"is a bright idea and do"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3919.642,"endTime":3923.202,"body":"not stop to consider, there"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3919.642,"endTime":3923.202,"body":"may be a negative aspect."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3924.022,"endTime":3925.689,"body":"It suggests, immaturity."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3925.709,"endTime":3928.922,"body":"It suggests that,  more"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":3925.709,"endTime":3928.922,"body":"thinking is required."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3929.267,"endTime":3930.707,"body":"this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3929.267,"endTime":3930.707,"body":"is a fantastic stick, a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3930.737,"endTime":3932.72,"body":"summary of this discussion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3932.94,"endTime":3934.224,"body":"And, actually I'm."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3934.864,"endTime":3939.167,"body":"I'm very surprised to find"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3934.864,"endTime":3939.167,"body":"that many of the research ideas"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3939.307,"endTime":3942.277,"body":"are, coming back, like you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3939.307,"endTime":3942.277,"body":"said that, the structural"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3942.477,"endTime":3944.877,"body":"behavior modeling went to sleep."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3945.057,"endTime":3949.537,"body":"And, you've also mentioned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3945.057,"endTime":3949.537,"body":"behavioral psychology, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3949.567,"endTime":3952.827,"body":"also not now is that's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3949.567,"endTime":3952.827,"body":"beautiful area of fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3952.827,"endTime":3957.19,"body":"with so many brilliant people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3952.827,"endTime":3957.19,"body":"researching And, what more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3957.19,"endTime":3960.087,"body":"fascinating all these ideas"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3957.19,"endTime":3960.087,"body":"you, did, they would also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3960.087,"endTime":3964.017,"body":"make a great PhD subject"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3960.087,"endTime":3964.017,"body":"today because we still lack"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3964.087,"endTime":3967.877,"body":"knowledge seems every time we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3964.087,"endTime":3967.877,"body":"move forward, we find more new"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3968.037,"endTime":3971.934,"body":"questions and more new problems"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3968.037,"endTime":3971.934,"body":"to solve, which is maybe not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3972.054,"endTime":3975.357,"body":"a best, concluding statement,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3972.054,"endTime":3975.357,"body":"but certainly great news for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3975.377,"endTime":3979.057,"body":"the new generation of fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3975.377,"endTime":3979.057,"body":"safety engineers and scientists"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3979.477,"endTime":3980.737,"body":"who come into the profession."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3981.612,"endTime":3985.735,"body":"And I'm very happy that, with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3981.612,"endTime":3985.735,"body":"your insight into the last"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3985.955,"endTime":3989.455,"body":"few decades of the history of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3985.955,"endTime":3989.455,"body":"fire science, we could show"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3989.525,"endTime":3993.062,"body":"that, many of these things"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3989.525,"endTime":3993.062,"body":"have already been a little bit,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3993.429,"endTime":3996.165,"body":"research or a lot research,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3993.429,"endTime":3996.165,"body":"and you don't have to figure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3996.225,"endTime":3998.075,"body":"out everything from scratch."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3998.349,"endTime":4001.689,"body":"You need to seek answers in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3998.349,"endTime":4001.689,"body":"the past and just build on top"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4001.689,"endTime":4002.929,"body":"of the shoulders of giants."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4002.929,"endTime":4006.049,"body":"That's, that's a great,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4002.929,"endTime":4006.049,"body":"perspective for young"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4006.329,"endTime":4007.049,"body":"scientists in here."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4008.034,"endTime":4010.817,"body":"Well, you know,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4008.034,"endTime":4010.817,"body":"let me sort of follow on that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4010.837,"endTime":4012.734,"body":"and say,  one thing that I."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4013.724,"endTime":4017.854,"body":"Very happy when I got to write"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4013.724,"endTime":4017.854,"body":"my PhD dissertation, is that"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4018.034,"endTime":4022.357,"body":"the, my professors in my school,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4018.034,"endTime":4022.357,"body":"let me write, a thesis, which"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4022.357,"endTime":4024.037,"body":"is broad rather than narrow."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4024.232,"endTime":4024.522,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4025.097,"endTime":4027.717,"body":"And so"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4025.097,"endTime":4027.717,"body":"what I would suggest now,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4027.97,"endTime":4032.59,"body":"to the, professors in our,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4027.97,"endTime":4032.59,"body":"field who are, uh, having new"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4032.93,"endTime":4038.14,"body":"PhD students, why don't you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4032.93,"endTime":4038.14,"body":"encourage some, young, uh, man"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4038.14,"endTime":4042.03,"body":"or woman who is, in your office"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4038.14,"endTime":4042.03,"body":"trying to find the best theme"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4042.17,"endTime":4047.38,"body":"for their dissertation, allow"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4042.17,"endTime":4047.38,"body":"them to write a, a broad topic."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4048.194,"endTime":4050.624,"body":"where should the fire"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4048.194,"endTime":4050.624,"body":"safety profession."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4050.979,"endTime":4052.449,"body":"Focus in the future,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4053.385,"endTime":4055.925,"body":"and make a PhD"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4053.385,"endTime":4055.925,"body":"thesis out of that."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4056.585,"endTime":4059.539,"body":"And I think that would be,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4056.585,"endTime":4059.539,"body":"hopefully a very positive"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4059.909,"endTime":4064.245,"body":"effort by somebody who would"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4059.909,"endTime":4064.245,"body":"do that because I think it"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4064.385,"endTime":4067.912,"body":"is worthwhile to raise those"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4064.385,"endTime":4067.912,"body":"kinds of fundamental questions."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4068.802,"endTime":4071.695,"body":"And if you have smart"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4068.802,"endTime":4071.695,"body":"people, they may be"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4071.695,"endTime":4073.175,"body":"able to give good input."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4073.975,"endTime":4075.755,"body":"And if"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4073.975,"endTime":4075.755,"body":"you struggle to find a good PhD"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4076.015,"endTime":4080.315,"body":"thesis topic, in the neglected"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4076.015,"endTime":4080.315,"body":"areas in fire safety, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4080.315,"endTime":4083.835,"body":"have five to pick up and a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4080.315,"endTime":4083.835,"body":"lot of them will be great, so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4083.945,"endTime":4087.709,"body":"that's like five needed and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4083.945,"endTime":4087.709,"body":"five, possibly great PhDs."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4088.331,"endTime":4088.539,"body":"Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4088.539,"endTime":4092.179,"body":"Babrauskas thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4088.539,"endTime":4092.179,"body":"for joining me in the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4092.479,"endTime":4096.552,"body":"It was a joy to, to speak to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4092.479,"endTime":4096.552,"body":"you and, maybe less joy to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4096.552,"endTime":4100.432,"body":"find neglected areas in fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4096.552,"endTime":4100.432,"body":"safety, but certainly a much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4100.432,"endTime":4102.102,"body":"needed and appreciated lesson"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4102.122,"endTime":4105.919,"body":"and, , thank you for your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4102.122,"endTime":4105.919,"body":"time and, yeah, all the best"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4105.919,"endTime":4107.159,"body":"to you man and thank you."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4107.464,"endTime":4109.974,"body":"Thank you"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4107.464,"endTime":4109.974,"body":"very much for inviting me and,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4110.197,"endTime":4114.744,"body":"let us hope the profession,"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4110.197,"endTime":4114.744,"body":"is able to move, well in"},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4114.784,"endTime":4115.974,"body":"a positive of direction,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4116.284,"endTime":4118.184,"body":"I'm certain"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4116.284,"endTime":4118.184,"body":"that it will thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Vyto Babrauskas","startTime":4118.394,"endTime":4118.884,"body":"take care."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4119.758,"endTime":4120.328,"body":"And thats it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4120.328,"endTime":4123.364,"body":"What the pleasure to talk to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4120.328,"endTime":4123.364,"body":"a true legend of fire safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4123.688,"endTime":4127.408,"body":"it was one of my dreams to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4123.688,"endTime":4127.408,"body":"be able to interview people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4127.408,"endTime":4128.788,"body":"like Vyto on this podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4128.818,"endTime":4129.988,"body":"And this is achieved."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4130.468,"endTime":4133.468,"body":"A lot of credit goes to Elena"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4130.468,"endTime":4133.468,"body":"Funk, a  listener who really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4133.468,"endTime":4135.118,"body":"pushed me to do this interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4135.118,"endTime":4137.578,"body":"Thank you, Elena that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4135.118,"endTime":4137.578,"body":"much appreciated."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4137.578,"endTime":4139.078,"body":"I needed a push and here we are."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4139.588,"endTime":4142.238,"body":"After a great talk with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4139.588,"endTime":4142.238,"body":"professor Babrauskas."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4142.758,"endTime":4145.348,"body":"Vyto has certainly brought"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4142.758,"endTime":4145.348,"body":"the many interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4145.378,"endTime":4146.998,"body":"views on the profession."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4147.568,"endTime":4148.408,"body":"And I think."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4148.738,"endTime":4150.208,"body":"They're very relatable."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4150.238,"endTime":4152.195,"body":"Like, we're not really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4150.238,"endTime":4152.195,"body":"researching that much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4152.195,"endTime":4153.515,"body":"residential fire safety where."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4154.055,"endTime":4158.045,"body":"Homes are still the number one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4154.055,"endTime":4158.045,"body":"place where people die in fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4158.675,"endTime":4160.295,"body":"That's in a way astonishing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4160.775,"endTime":4164.165,"body":"We still do not have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4160.775,"endTime":4164.165,"body":"a good, organized way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4164.165,"endTime":4166.438,"body":"to have, statistics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4166.438,"endTime":4170.268,"body":"And we do not have way too"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4166.438,"endTime":4170.268,"body":"recuperate the knowledge found"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4170.288,"endTime":4173.408,"body":"in the post-fire investigations."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4173.438,"endTime":4174.368,"body":"This is horrible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4174.698,"endTime":4178.058,"body":"Like, how are we able to act"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4174.698,"endTime":4178.058,"body":"without having this data?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4178.214,"endTime":4179.834,"body":"When it comes to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4178.214,"endTime":4179.834,"body":"performance-based design,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4179.834,"endTime":4182.294,"body":"I guess there may be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4179.834,"endTime":4182.294,"body":"some split votes in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4182.634,"endTime":4186.294,"body":", I don't think everyone thinks"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4182.634,"endTime":4186.294,"body":"UK system is not working, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4186.294,"endTime":4190.394,"body":"certainly that the ideas brought"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4186.294,"endTime":4190.394,"body":"by Vyto that, , well post"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4190.544,"endTime":4193.334,"body":"criteria and written in the law."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4193.754,"endTime":4197.024,"body":"Not subject to interpretation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4193.754,"endTime":4197.024,"body":"can be good thing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4197.024,"endTime":4199.634,"body":"And I tell you, we have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4197.024,"endTime":4199.634,"body":"the same in Poland actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4199.874,"endTime":4203.264,"body":"when the rules are not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4199.874,"endTime":4203.264,"body":"written in the law."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4203.294,"endTime":4203.504,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4204.044,"endTime":4206.864,"body":"It's up to a person to decide"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4204.044,"endTime":4206.864,"body":"if they're passed or not."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4207.224,"endTime":4208.274,"body":"Creates issues."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4208.274,"endTime":4211.004,"body":"And I can certainly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4208.274,"endTime":4211.004,"body":"relate to them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4211.424,"endTime":4212.054,"body":"Issues."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4212.116,"endTime":4215.744,"body":"Falling out or, or pointed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4212.116,"endTime":4215.744,"body":"out by Vyto finally."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4216.104,"endTime":4220.004,"body":"The problems of cost benefit"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4216.104,"endTime":4220.004,"body":"analysis and not taking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4220.004,"endTime":4222.464,"body":"into account the possible"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4220.004,"endTime":4222.464,"body":"negative aspects of."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4222.944,"endTime":4225.914,"body":"Fire protection is also is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4222.944,"endTime":4225.914,"body":"very, very interesting and."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4226.724,"endTime":4230.294,"body":"As we are living in,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4226.724,"endTime":4230.294,"body":"let's say a rich world."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4230.684,"endTime":4233.054,"body":"We can spend a lot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4230.684,"endTime":4233.054,"body":"on the fire safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4233.654,"endTime":4237.164,"body":"That does not stop us"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4233.654,"endTime":4237.164,"body":"from being responsible"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4237.164,"endTime":4241.274,"body":"to spend the money in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4237.164,"endTime":4241.274,"body":"proper places responsibly."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4241.874,"endTime":4246.104,"body":"And I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4241.874,"endTime":4246.104,"body":"important that we put cost"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4246.134,"endTime":4249.854,"body":"benefit analysis back into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4246.134,"endTime":4249.854,"body":"the equation of fire safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4250.184,"endTime":4251.948,"body":"Hopefully at the level of."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4251.961,"endTime":4255.571,"body":"the guidance law,  the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4251.961,"endTime":4255.571,"body":"at the top of the pyramid,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4255.578,"endTime":4257.324,"body":"so it's obvious that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4255.578,"endTime":4257.324,"body":"you need to do that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4257.354,"endTime":4260.081,"body":"Not just A nice trick that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4257.354,"endTime":4260.081,"body":"someone would like to pull."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4260.321,"endTime":4263.021,"body":"And for this, I would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4260.321,"endTime":4263.021,"body":"highly recommend to listen"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4263.021,"endTime":4264.651,"body":"to episode with Ingo Riess"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4265.131,"endTime":4266.861,"body":"if you have not already."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4267.221,"endTime":4271.031,"body":"Because Ingo has shown a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4267.221,"endTime":4271.031,"body":"very interesting view from."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4271.071,"endTime":4274.851,"body":"Tunneling world where we're,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4271.071,"endTime":4274.851,"body":"this is really being used."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4274.851,"endTime":4278.091,"body":"And I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4274.851,"endTime":4278.091,"body":"direction where the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4278.091,"endTime":4279.441,"body":"fire profession can go on."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4280.431,"endTime":4283.611,"body":"So I hope you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4280.431,"endTime":4283.611,"body":"the interview with Vyto tell"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4283.641,"endTime":4285.501,"body":"me what you like about it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4285.561,"endTime":4288.121,"body":"Tell me where you do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4285.561,"endTime":4288.121,"body":"not agree with Vyto"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4288.591,"endTime":4290.918,"body":"tell me, what questions are."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4290.965,"endTime":4293.155,"body":"Needed to be asked"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4290.965,"endTime":4293.155,"body":"to my future guests."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4293.515,"endTime":4297.621,"body":"To clear out The neglected"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4293.515,"endTime":4297.621,"body":"areas that, we're brought"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4297.641,"endTime":4298.928,"body":"in life, in, in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4299.438,"endTime":4302.048,"body":"And I also know that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4299.438,"endTime":4302.048,"body":"many of you are."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4302.098,"endTime":4304.318,"body":", researching actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4302.098,"endTime":4304.318,"body":"the areas that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4304.597,"endTime":4308.451,"body":"Vyto touched as the ones that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4304.597,"endTime":4308.451,"body":"are not received that much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4308.451,"endTime":4311.061,"body":"And I would really, really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4308.451,"endTime":4311.061,"body":"love to hear from you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4312.201,"endTime":4315.981,"body":"If you are there and you do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4312.201,"endTime":4315.981,"body":"research on some of this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4316.371,"endTime":4318.471,"body":"Please send me an email and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4316.371,"endTime":4318.471,"body":"we'll organize an episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4318.501,"endTime":4319.521,"body":"I would love to talk."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4320.001,"endTime":4321.981,"body":"About how you're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4320.001,"endTime":4321.981,"body":"dealing with them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4322.281,"endTime":4326.901,"body":"Because I would love to hear how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4322.281,"endTime":4326.901,"body":"the fire safety moves forward,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4326.991,"endTime":4328.551,"body":"especially in the areas that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4328.808,"endTime":4329.318,"body":"Are."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4329.448,"endTime":4332.565,"body":"Possibly very important for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4329.448,"endTime":4332.565,"body":"the growth of the discipline."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4333.225,"endTime":4336.608,"body":"So, that's it for this a little"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4333.225,"endTime":4336.608,"body":"longer than usual episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4336.638,"endTime":4338.618,"body":"I hope you have enjoyed it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4338.718,"endTime":4339.888,"body":"I did a lot."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4339.918,"endTime":4342.812,"body":"And, one of the bucket"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4339.918,"endTime":4342.812,"body":"list items is, is crossed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4343.382,"endTime":4345.092,"body":"which makes me very happy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4345.452,"endTime":4346.922,"body":"Thank you all for being here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4347.012,"endTime":4347.942,"body":"Thanks to Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4347.942,"endTime":4352.652,"body":"Babrauskas for joining me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4347.942,"endTime":4352.652,"body":"in this show and as usual,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4352.682,"endTime":4353.672,"body":"see you next Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4353.912,"endTime":4354.242,"body":"Bye."}]}