{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":0.63,"endTime":1.41,"body":"Hello, everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":1.41,"endTime":3.12,"body":"Welcome to Fire Science Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3.277,"endTime":5.707,"body":"If you follow last week's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3.277,"endTime":5.707,"body":"episode, you know exactly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":5.707,"endTime":6.907,"body":"what's about to happen."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":7.297,"endTime":10.777,"body":"I have interviewed professor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":7.297,"endTime":10.777,"body":"James Quintiere on the us fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":10.777,"endTime":13.837,"body":"movement and the development"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":10.777,"endTime":13.837,"body":"of fire science in seventies"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":13.837,"endTime":16.927,"body":"and eighties in us and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":13.837,"endTime":16.927,"body":"collaborations worldwide."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":17.347,"endTime":18.727,"body":"It was quite fun."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":19.087,"endTime":21.287,"body":"albeit the little,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":19.087,"endTime":21.287,"body":"a bittersweet."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":21.727,"endTime":25.267,"body":"With, uh, the politics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":21.727,"endTime":25.267,"body":"involved and reasons why."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":25.567,"endTime":29.107,"body":"The golden era of fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":25.567,"endTime":29.107,"body":"has ended actually in there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":29.37,"endTime":32.61,"body":"Anyway today, we're coming back"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":29.37,"endTime":32.61,"body":"to these glorious times, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":32.64,"endTime":34.5,"body":"with a more technical approach."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":34.86,"endTime":39.06,"body":"So I have interviewed James"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":34.86,"endTime":39.06,"body":"for another hour for about, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":39.274,"endTime":43.384,"body":"technicalities of research"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":39.274,"endTime":43.384,"body":"carried at NBS or NIST now."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":43.834,"endTime":46.654,"body":"How this experiments"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":43.834,"endTime":46.654,"body":"were planned, how they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":46.654,"endTime":47.764,"body":"choose the topics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":48.154,"endTime":51.244,"body":"Uh, who was involved, how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":48.154,"endTime":51.244,"body":"they measured stuff, actually,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":51.244,"endTime":53.434,"body":"that's, that's probably the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":51.244,"endTime":53.434,"body":"most impressive part of it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":53.464,"endTime":55.054,"body":"How did they measure stuff?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":55.107,"endTime":59.097,"body":"And while these guys were"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":55.107,"endTime":59.097,"body":"advanced in measuring stuff in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":59.097,"endTime":62.544,"body":"fire, and so much more careful"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":59.097,"endTime":62.544,"body":"than many of fire researchers,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":62.544,"endTime":64.33,"body":"I know myself, including,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":64.776,"endTime":67.956,"body":"It's fascinating and inspiring"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":64.776,"endTime":67.956,"body":"to learn from James about that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":68.15,"endTime":71.57,"body":"I guess I'll be fine, ending"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":68.15,"endTime":71.57,"body":"intro as it is now, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":71.6,"endTime":74.4,"body":"I think I need to recommend"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":71.6,"endTime":74.4,"body":"listening to James Quintiere"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":74.42,"endTime":77.69,"body":"talking about some of the most"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":74.42,"endTime":77.69,"body":"impactful fire experiments"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":77.72,"endTime":79.16,"body":"ever conducted in history."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":79.46,"endTime":82.58,"body":"So, yeah, let's spin the intro"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":79.46,"endTime":82.58,"body":"and jump i into the episodes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":105.876,"endTime":107.852,"body":"It's been two months"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":105.876,"endTime":107.852,"body":"since I've received a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":107.852,"endTime":110.986,"body":"professional support from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":107.852,"endTime":110.986,"body":"my sponsor, OFR Consultants."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":111.016,"endTime":113.026,"body":"And I must tell you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":111.016,"endTime":113.026,"body":"it's really helpful."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":113.403,"endTime":115.713,"body":"And really helps me create"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":113.403,"endTime":115.713,"body":"the episodes, like the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":115.713,"endTime":117.063,"body":"one you're about to hear."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":117.309,"endTime":119.919,"body":"So I would like to express"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":117.309,"endTime":119.919,"body":"my huge gratitude to all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":119.949,"endTime":121.959,"body":"four consultants for being"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":119.949,"endTime":121.959,"body":"a pattern of the show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":122.327,"endTime":126.227,"body":"If you had no chance to learn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":122.327,"endTime":126.227,"body":"about them yet OFR Consultants"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":126.227,"endTime":129.023,"body":"is a multi award winning"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":126.227,"endTime":129.023,"body":"independent consultancy in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":129.023,"endTime":132.293,"body":"UK dedicated to addressing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":129.023,"endTime":132.293,"body":"fire safety challenges."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":132.533,"endTime":136.553,"body":"It's UKs leading fire risk"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":132.533,"endTime":136.553,"body":"consultancy, and OFRs globally"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":136.553,"endTime":139.463,"body":"established team has developed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":136.553,"endTime":139.463,"body":"a reputation for preeminent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":139.763,"endTime":142.5,"body":"fire engineering expertise"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":139.763,"endTime":142.5,"body":"with colleagues working"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":142.5,"endTime":145.74,"body":"across the globe to protect"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":142.5,"endTime":145.74,"body":"people, property environment."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":146.15,"endTime":149.43,"body":"OFR is always looking to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":146.15,"endTime":149.43,"body":"grow its, and it's always"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":149.43,"endTime":152.49,"body":"keen to hear from industry"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":149.43,"endTime":152.49,"body":"professionals, who'd like to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":152.49,"endTime":155.13,"body":"collaborate with them on fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":152.49,"endTime":155.13,"body":"safety futures this year."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":155.64,"endTime":157.77,"body":"If you're one of such people."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":157.98,"endTime":160.38,"body":"Get in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":157.98,"endTime":160.38,"body":"touch@overconsultants.com."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":160.68,"endTime":162.9,"body":"And if you're an academic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":160.68,"endTime":162.9,"body":"looking up for stipends"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":162.9,"endTime":165.21,"body":"and scholarships that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":162.9,"endTime":165.21,"body":"are being funded at major"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":165.33,"endTime":166.71,"body":"universities across UK."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":166.752,"endTime":167.91,"body":"You can also reach out to them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":168.06,"endTime":170.86,"body":"OFR thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":168.06,"endTime":170.86,"body":"being a patron of this show"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":171.13,"endTime":174.73,"body":"and helping me create this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":171.13,"endTime":174.73,"body":"content free for everyone."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":174.79,"endTime":178.323,"body":"And now back to the experiments"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":174.79,"endTime":178.323,"body":"that changed fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":178.323,"endTime":179.328,"body":"with James Quintiere."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":179.842,"endTime":180.722,"body":"hello everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":180.722,"endTime":182.762,"body":"Welcome to Fire Science Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":183.102,"endTime":186.442,"body":"I'm today again with Professor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":183.102,"endTime":186.442,"body":"James Quintiere hello, James."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":186.442,"endTime":187.322,"body":"Nice to have you here"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":187.322,"endTime":187.602,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":187.856,"endTime":188.272,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":188.272,"endTime":188.632,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":188.632,"endTime":189.752,"body":"Thank you, Che."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":189.816,"endTime":190.329,"body":"Really,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":190.329,"endTime":192.372,"body":"really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":190.329,"endTime":192.372,"body":"happy that you've, uh, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":192.572,"endTime":193.732,"body":"continue our interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":194.122,"endTime":198.692,"body":"Last time, we were talking a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":194.122,"endTime":198.692,"body":"lot about the history of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":198.782,"endTime":202.732,"body":"US Fire Movement, how many"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":198.782,"endTime":202.732,"body":"things were put into the place,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":202.732,"endTime":207.372,"body":"the politics that did not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":202.732,"endTime":207.372,"body":"help that much, and sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":207.422,"endTime":210.166,"body":"uh, made destruction to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":207.422,"endTime":210.166,"body":"efforts of fire scientists."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":210.166,"endTime":214.326,"body":"However, when we're discussing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":210.166,"endTime":214.326,"body":"the mid seventies and your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":214.326,"endTime":219.126,"body":"early days at there has been"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":214.326,"endTime":219.126,"body":"a lot of great fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":219.126,"endTime":222.166,"body":"and experiments, and that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":219.126,"endTime":222.166,"body":"what I would like to cover"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":222.416,"endTime":224.166,"body":"in this part of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":225.136,"endTime":229.512,"body":"So, first, like, if you can,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":225.136,"endTime":229.512,"body":"tell me, uh, what sorts of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.512,"endTime":232.762,"body":"experiments were the ones"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.512,"endTime":232.762,"body":"that were most interesting for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":232.762,"endTime":235.939,"body":"you happening in seventies,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":232.762,"endTime":235.939,"body":"mid seventies, early"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":235.939,"endTime":236.379,"body":"eighties?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":236.989,"endTime":242.199,"body":"Well, uh, I'm the kind of person"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":236.989,"endTime":242.199,"body":"that sees the big picture, so"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":242.199,"endTime":244.079,"body":"I would say almost all of them"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":244.189,"endTime":244.929,"body":"All of them."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":245.319,"endTime":249.359,"body":"with, uh, uh, physics"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":245.319,"endTime":249.359,"body":"instead of chemistry."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":249.409,"endTime":253.206,"body":"If it, dealt with flame"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":249.409,"endTime":253.206,"body":"retardants or maybe"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":253.206,"endTime":255.366,"body":"smoked particles or"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":253.206,"endTime":255.366,"body":"something like that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":255.516,"endTime":255.676,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":255.766,"endTime":260.126,"body":"didn't attract my attention"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":255.766,"endTime":260.126,"body":"as much as, flame spray"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":260.506,"endTime":265.819,"body":"and, the motion of, fluid"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":260.506,"endTime":265.819,"body":"in fire, pool fires, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":265.899,"endTime":267.539,"body":"fires in compartments."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":268.446,"endTime":270.876,"body":"so all of that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":268.446,"endTime":270.876,"body":"kind of attracted."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":271.406,"endTime":275.266,"body":"and I think I spread my"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":271.406,"endTime":275.266,"body":"career over working in bits"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":275.266,"endTime":276.932,"body":"and pieces of territory."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":277.381,"endTime":279.717,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":277.381,"endTime":279.717,"body":"uh, I struggle to call them"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":279.717,"endTime":283.321,"body":"bits and pieces because in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":279.717,"endTime":283.321,"body":"your scientific curriculum,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":283.321,"endTime":286.601,"body":"there is so many fundamental,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":283.321,"endTime":286.601,"body":"papers and, and stuff that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":286.601,"endTime":290.201,"body":"absolutely fundamental to our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":286.601,"endTime":290.201,"body":"modern understanding of fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":290.211,"endTime":293.133,"body":"Calling them bits,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":290.211,"endTime":293.133,"body":"uh, is maybe, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":293.172,"endTime":296.476,"body":"Well, enabled"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":293.172,"endTime":296.476,"body":"me and en and encouraged me"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":296.476,"endTime":301.359,"body":"to write a book to put that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":296.476,"endTime":301.359,"body":"together and to try to, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":301.359,"endTime":305.372,"body":"create the book in terms of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":301.359,"endTime":305.372,"body":"the bits and pieces, but to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":305.372,"endTime":307.652,"body":"make it unified in a way."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":308.236,"endTime":312.866,"body":"So the style of my book is more"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":308.236,"endTime":312.866,"body":"like a book on heat transfer or"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":312.866,"endTime":317.256,"body":"fluid mechanics, which tried to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":312.866,"endTime":317.256,"body":"integrate the subject so that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":317.594,"endTime":322.571,"body":"Flame spread is not distinct"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":317.594,"endTime":322.571,"body":"from a fire plume There's"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":322.571,"endTime":326.401,"body":"things that are in common and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":322.571,"endTime":326.401,"body":"it's becomes part of the same"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":326.401,"endTime":329.121,"body":"discipline of fire behavior."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":329.521,"endTime":334.388,"body":"And so fire behavior, I think"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":329.521,"endTime":334.388,"body":"was the key attract to, to me,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":334.688,"endTime":340.521,"body":"and fires and buildings and,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":334.688,"endTime":340.521,"body":"uh, the most of the research"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":340.891,"endTime":345.425,"body":"at that time, either at NIST"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":340.891,"endTime":345.425,"body":"or in the academic field,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":345.425,"endTime":348.065,"body":"and I would say most of it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":345.425,"endTime":348.065,"body":"was in the academic field,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":348.384,"endTime":350.278,"body":"focused in that territory."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":350.368,"endTime":354.725,"body":"So they were looking at ignition"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":350.368,"endTime":354.725,"body":"flame spread, how things"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":354.875,"endTime":359.438,"body":"burn, what's the real science"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":354.875,"endTime":359.438,"body":"ingredients of a test method."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":360.105,"endTime":361.665,"body":"Fires in compartments."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":361.955,"endTime":364.865,"body":"Um, what happens when"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":361.955,"endTime":364.865,"body":"a flame hits a wall,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":364.865,"endTime":366.185,"body":"when it hits a ceiling?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":366.875,"endTime":370.255,"body":"why are laminate flames"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":366.875,"endTime":370.255,"body":"different than turbulent flames?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":370.798,"endTime":376.181,"body":"So all of that came into a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":370.798,"endTime":376.181,"body":"perspective for people to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":376.181,"endTime":381.575,"body":"work on because nist assembled"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":376.181,"endTime":381.575,"body":"three groups in fire into one,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":381.605,"endTime":382.215,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":382.268,"endTime":386.365,"body":"and they brought in the research"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":382.268,"endTime":386.365,"body":"activity of the National Science"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":386.365,"endTime":388.325,"body":"Foundation, which was academia."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":388.921,"endTime":389.041,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":389.211,"endTime":393.161,"body":"all of that came together and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":389.211,"endTime":393.161,"body":"it came together under, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":393.161,"endTime":395.441,"body":"fire directorship of John Lyons."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":396.021,"endTime":399.301,"body":"and people started thinking"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":396.021,"endTime":399.301,"body":"about all those bits and pieces."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":400.066,"endTime":403.11,"body":"there were bits and pieces"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":400.066,"endTime":403.11,"body":"and the integration of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":403.11,"endTime":405.6,"body":"them, was not considered."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":405.73,"endTime":409.4,"body":"It was just, let's look"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":405.73,"endTime":409.4,"body":"at each individual piece."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":410.18,"endTime":414.24,"body":"And when you look at pieces,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":410.18,"endTime":414.24,"body":"what people do first is Let's"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":414.24,"endTime":418.28,"body":"burn something let's try to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":414.24,"endTime":418.28,"body":"figure out what's going on."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":418.666,"endTime":422.446,"body":"and so that was the really,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":418.666,"endTime":422.446,"body":"the approach that people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":422.446,"endTime":425.516,"body":"made those, uh, 1970s"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":426.001,"endTime":428.541,"body":"And, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":426.001,"endTime":428.541,"body":"I assume then you suddenly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":428.541,"endTime":431.461,"body":"realize this, all these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":428.541,"endTime":431.461,"body":"things intertwined together,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":431.841,"endTime":433.061,"body":"one leads to another."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":433.061,"endTime":436.658,"body":"You cannot consider flashover"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":433.061,"endTime":436.658,"body":"without understanding the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":436.658,"endTime":438.065,"body":"ignition of, of a solid"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":438.065,"endTime":438.745,"body":"surface, right?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":439.02,"endTime":439.3,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":439.45,"endTime":442.62,"body":"I mean, you need to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":439.45,"endTime":442.62,"body":"understand buoyancy."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":442.64,"endTime":445.62,"body":"You need to understand heat"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":442.64,"endTime":445.62,"body":"transfer, flute mechanics,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":445.771,"endTime":448.796,"body":"and then you, you need to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":445.771,"endTime":448.796,"body":"understand how combustion"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":448.796,"endTime":450.436,"body":"comes into play in that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":450.631,"endTime":454.351,"body":"and one person we haven't"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":450.631,"endTime":454.351,"body":"mentioned is Brian Spalding."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":454.821,"endTime":459.128,"body":"Brian Spalding in his"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":454.821,"endTime":459.128,"body":"early work, tried to look"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":459.128,"endTime":463.131,"body":"at combustion problems, in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":459.128,"endTime":463.131,"body":"an engineering framework."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":463.413,"endTime":467.575,"body":"In his later years, he moved to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":463.413,"endTime":467.575,"body":"C F D because he felt that there"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":467.575,"endTime":469.645,"body":"was limitations, rightly so."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":470.235,"endTime":473.295,"body":"you know, you've probably"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":470.235,"endTime":473.295,"body":"heard of the B number and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":473.295,"endTime":476.975,"body":"the formulation of how things"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":473.295,"endTime":476.975,"body":"burn in terms of number"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":477.385,"endTime":477.805,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":478.575,"endTime":482.695,"body":"Schwab, Zeldovitch,  in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":478.575,"endTime":482.695,"body":"how you can make the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":482.895,"endTime":487.408,"body":"equations of mass and heat"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":482.895,"endTime":487.408,"body":"transfer, assemble into one."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":487.985,"endTime":490.905,"body":"And so that foundation"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":487.985,"endTime":490.905,"body":"was there from Spalding"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":490.905,"endTime":495.995,"body":"and Zel that allowed fire"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":490.905,"endTime":495.995,"body":"scientists to tap into."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":496.405,"endTime":499.675,"body":"So that was an analytical"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":496.405,"endTime":499.675,"body":"tool that they could use."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":499.735,"endTime":503.205,"body":"But really to look at this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":499.735,"endTime":503.205,"body":"for the first time that many"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":503.205,"endTime":505.965,"body":"people were just stepping"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":503.205,"endTime":505.965,"body":"into it, they, they had"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":505.965,"endTime":509.105,"body":"to figure out what to look"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":505.965,"endTime":509.105,"body":"at, how to look at it."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":509.555,"endTime":512.865,"body":"Uh, I could remember early"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":509.555,"endTime":512.865,"body":"scientists making measurements"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":512.865,"endTime":516.661,"body":"of temperature or velocity,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":512.865,"endTime":516.661,"body":"and they were incorrect because"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":516.692,"endTime":519.865,"body":"they didn't understand that a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":516.692,"endTime":519.865,"body":"thermocouple could have errors"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":519.865,"endTime":523.611,"body":"or that you were measuring"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":519.865,"endTime":523.611,"body":"velocity so low that, know,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":523.611,"endTime":525.451,"body":"their instrument wasn't capable."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":526.451,"endTime":528.651,"body":"there were a lot of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":526.451,"endTime":528.651,"body":"challenges like, like that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":529.301,"endTime":534.118,"body":"and, bringing all of that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":529.301,"endTime":534.118,"body":"together at N B S a catalyst."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":534.611,"endTime":536.131,"body":"you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":534.611,"endTime":536.131,"body":"mentioned analytical tools"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":536.131,"endTime":540.218,"body":"that existed, What was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":536.131,"endTime":540.218,"body":"the state of computational"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":540.218,"endTime":542.058,"body":"fire science at that point?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":542.058,"endTime":545.178,"body":"Was it already the times"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":542.058,"endTime":545.178,"body":"where Howard Emmons had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":545.178,"endTime":546.885,"body":"this first, code produced?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":547.4,"endTime":547.75,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":547.935,"endTime":548.285,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":548.6,"endTime":548.95,"body":"no."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":548.95,"endTime":553.693,"body":"The Howard Emmonds code grew out"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":548.95,"endTime":553.693,"body":"of the work, the early work in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":553.693,"endTime":557.236,"body":"the seventies, in which, like"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":553.693,"endTime":557.236,"body":"even Howard Emmonds himself,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":557.236,"endTime":561.09,"body":"he, he would have students,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":557.236,"endTime":561.09,"body":"he had one student before"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":561.09,"endTime":562.33,"body":"all of this came together."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":562.4,"endTime":563.97,"body":"Look at how Wood Cribs"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":564.205,"endTime":564.815,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":565.113,"endTime":571.053,"body":"and expanded the work of Dan"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":565.113,"endTime":571.053,"body":"Gross Robertson from NBS and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":571.053,"endTime":572.613,"body":"brought a theory into play."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":573.546,"endTime":575.866,"body":"Emmons had John de"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":573.546,"endTime":575.866,"body":"Ris work on on Flame."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":576.44,"endTime":581.04,"body":"and get, almost an exact"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":576.44,"endTime":581.04,"body":"solution for flame spread."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":581.713,"endTime":585.883,"body":"Emmons worked uh, a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":581.713,"endTime":585.883,"body":"fire whirl which was a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":586.043,"endTime":587.521,"body":"phenomena not understood."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":588.39,"endTime":591.26,"body":"Emmons had, Frank"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":588.39,"endTime":591.26,"body":"Tamanini work on, um,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":591.48,"endTime":593.393,"body":"extinguishment of, fires."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":593.86,"endTime":597.703,"body":"and then at the same time"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":593.86,"endTime":597.703,"body":"at FM was work going on"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":597.703,"endTime":600.023,"body":"on pool fires, uh, Modac."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":600.713,"endTime":602.943,"body":"So people were focused"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":600.713,"endTime":602.943,"body":"on all of this."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":602.943,"endTime":605.903,"body":"And there was an"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":602.943,"endTime":605.903,"body":"collaboration of the work"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":605.903,"endTime":607.903,"body":"between FM and Harvard."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":608.693,"endTime":610.823,"body":"That program was linked."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":610.833,"endTime":615.343,"body":"It was funded in as a link"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":610.833,"endTime":615.343,"body":"from NBS it wasn't funded"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":615.343,"endTime":617.023,"body":"to Harvard and to fm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":617.193,"endTime":617.943,"body":"It was funded."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":618.718,"endTime":622.868,"body":"To Harvard and FM"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":618.718,"endTime":622.868,"body":"as a single entity."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":623.728,"endTime":627.388,"body":"And because they had all"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":623.728,"endTime":627.388,"body":"these pieces, they decided"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":627.388,"endTime":629.868,"body":"they should put it together"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":627.388,"endTime":629.868,"body":"in a compartment fire."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":630.258,"endTime":630.748,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":631.028,"endTime":634.638,"body":"they, had a whole series"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":631.028,"endTime":634.638,"body":"of compartment fires with"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":634.638,"endTime":638.911,"body":"the best instrumentation"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":634.638,"endTime":638.911,"body":"unravel what was going on"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":638.911,"endTime":639.991,"body":"in the different pieces."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":640.765,"endTime":645.385,"body":"And that led to Emmons,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":640.765,"endTime":645.385,"body":"concept of a zone model."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":645.855,"endTime":646.655,"body":"fantastic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":646.655,"endTime":649.638,"body":"And, and what was the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":646.655,"endTime":649.638,"body":"understanding of the smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":649.638,"endTime":651.078,"body":"dynamics at that point?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":651.498,"endTime":654.398,"body":"The, the fire plumes,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":651.498,"endTime":654.398,"body":"entrainment the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":654.628,"endTime":655.238,"body":"layers."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":655.555,"endTime":659.555,"body":"first of all, I think the smoke"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":655.555,"endTime":659.555,"body":"layer and the idea that you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":659.555,"endTime":661.035,"body":"would have such a stratified"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":661.458,"endTime":661.543,"body":"Hmm"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":661.565,"endTime":664.701,"body":"atmosphere was something"},{"speaker":"James 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basis"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":696.456,"endTime":700.816,"body":"of a system model that said,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":701.076,"endTime":704.896,"body":"you have an upper layer, you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":701.076,"endTime":704.896,"body":"have a lower layer, and you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":704.896,"endTime":706.136,"body":"have flow through an opening."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":706.846,"endTime":712.006,"body":"Let's conceive of the model"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":706.846,"endTime":712.006,"body":"in those terms, and now let's"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":712.056,"endTime":715.176,"body":"proceed to figure out how"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":712.056,"endTime":715.176,"body":"you get the flow in and out."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":715.778,"endTime":719.615,"body":"what is the fire plume"},{"speaker":"James 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measure"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":768.161,"endTime":773.011,"body":"very carefully that temperature"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":773.541,"endTime":776.341,"body":"profile, in, uh, a room fire."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":776.841,"endTime":779.861,"body":"And he would measure the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":776.841,"endTime":779.861,"body":"gas profile and he would"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":779.861,"endTime":781.405,"body":"show, uh, how uniform,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":781.97,"endTime":782.09,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":782.405,"endTime":782.725,"body":"was."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":783.725,"endTime":787.605,"body":"of course, if you have a large"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":783.725,"endTime":787.605,"body":"room, like a corridor, like"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":787.605,"endTime":791.685,"body":"room, then it's going to vary"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":787.605,"endTime":791.685,"body":"as you move away from the fire."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":792.645,"endTime":795.965,"body":"as a first approximation,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":792.645,"endTime":795.965,"body":"the, that's what you have."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":796.065,"endTime":800.218,"body":"And in that sense, Howard"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":796.065,"endTime":800.218,"body":"Emms was the last thing he"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":800.218,"endTime":803.885,"body":"was trying to work on was"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":800.218,"endTime":803.885,"body":"how to extend a room to a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":804.125,"endTime":805.565,"body":"corridor like, enclosure."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":806.56,"endTime":811.64,"body":"So you could allow for the, in"},{"speaker":"James 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bombing."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":830.046,"endTime":832.866,"body":"And he modeled the smoke"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":830.046,"endTime":832.866,"body":"movement in the entire"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":832.866,"endTime":833.706,"body":"World Trade Center"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":833.861,"endTime":834.281,"body":"Hmm,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":834.461,"endTime":836.221,"body":"with his own, with"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":834.461,"endTime":836.221,"body":"his own model."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":836.449,"endTime":839.069,"body":"and Tanaka has built"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":836.449,"endTime":839.069,"body":"in wind effects."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":839.699,"endTime":844.109,"body":"He's built in mixing effects"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":839.699,"endTime":844.109,"body":"between the layers that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":844.309,"endTime":845.989,"body":"Ed Zukowski illuminated"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":846.154,"endTime":846.764,"body":"really."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":847.189,"endTime":847.429,"body":"research."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":847.769,"endTime":850.439,"body":"so the zone model"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":847.769,"endTime":850.439,"body":"concept came out of that,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":851.099,"endTime":852.459,"body":"catalyst of interaction."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":853.058,"endTime":855.738,"body":"and people watching, you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":853.058,"endTime":855.738,"body":"know, like you said, you could"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":855.738,"endTime":860.091,"body":"see it,  And so, it's like"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":855.738,"endTime":860.091,"body":"from an engineering point of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":860.091,"endTime":864.051,"body":"view, Hey, let's model this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":860.091,"endTime":864.051,"body":"as one zone and another zone."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":864.551,"endTime":867.784,"body":"And they interact, they interact"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":864.551,"endTime":867.784,"body":"through the plume and they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":868.064,"endTime":869.464,"body":"interact, through mixing."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":869.964,"endTime":873.478,"body":"And they also interact"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":869.964,"endTime":873.478,"body":"because, when the lower wall"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":873.478,"endTime":878.501,"body":"gets hot, heat goes, the hot"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":873.478,"endTime":878.501,"body":"gases move up along that wall,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":878.681,"endTime":878.841,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":879.001,"endTime":881.301,"body":"and then they encounter"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":879.001,"endTime":881.301,"body":"a hotter layer."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":881.759,"endTime":886.091,"body":"So now they can't penetrate"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":881.759,"endTime":886.091,"body":"and they blur out the zone"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":886.091,"endTime":887.651,"body":"between the hot and cold layer."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":888.031,"endTime":891.051,"body":"And there was research"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":888.031,"endTime":891.051,"body":"going on on that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":891.741,"endTime":895.051,"body":"So those things could"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":891.741,"endTime":895.051,"body":"be embedded into a zone"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":895.051,"endTime":896.491,"body":"model as secondary."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":897.741,"endTime":898.101,"body":"Phenomenal."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":898.47,"endTime":899.798,"body":"just like plume model is,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":899.798,"endTime":901.878,"body":"is is also embedded as"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":902.558,"endTime":902.758,"body":"embedded."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":903.214,"endTime":906.201,"body":"but of course when you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":903.214,"endTime":906.201,"body":"embedded, you don't have"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":906.201,"endTime":910.311,"body":"the effect of coming in from"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":906.201,"endTime":910.311,"body":"one side knocking the plume"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":910.421,"endTime":911.031,"body":"mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":911.391,"endTime":913.821,"body":"in the zone model, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":911.391,"endTime":913.821,"body":"plume stands up straight."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":914.107,"endTime":917.408,"body":"But in a CF D model,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":914.107,"endTime":917.408,"body":"the plume will bend over"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":917.858,"endTime":921.178,"body":"because it will, yield to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":917.858,"endTime":921.178,"body":"that fluid of mechanics."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":921.501,"endTime":925.431,"body":"and might do the mixing too,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":921.501,"endTime":925.431,"body":"but it might not because that's"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":925.431,"endTime":926.991,"body":"a viscous, turbulent effect."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":927.396,"endTime":930.249,"body":"So when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":927.396,"endTime":930.249,"body":"designing experiments, to see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":930.319,"endTime":934.626,"body":"inside the layers, what kind"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":930.319,"endTime":934.626,"body":"of tools you had available?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":934.686,"endTime":937.573,"body":"You said, aspirating,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":934.686,"endTime":937.573,"body":"thermal, uh, couples."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":937.573,"endTime":939.613,"body":"That's, that, that I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":937.573,"endTime":939.613,"body":"guess is quite advanced."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":939.829,"endTime":942.779,"body":"Uh, what, what was your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":939.829,"endTime":942.779,"body":"options for, for example,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":942.779,"endTime":943.939,"body":"measuring heat fluxes?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":943.939,"endTime":946.859,"body":"You, you had water"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":943.939,"endTime":946.859,"body":"called gouges at"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":946.859,"endTime":947.219,"body":"that point."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":947.684,"endTime":948.194,"body":"Y Yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":948.531,"endTime":950.891,"body":"there were these"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":948.531,"endTime":950.891,"body":"companies like Mether,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":951.586,"endTime":951.734,"body":"Hmm"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":951.738,"endTime":957.726,"body":"whose founder actually had a PhD"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":951.738,"endTime":957.726,"body":"from who developed, thermopile"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":957.964,"endTime":959.974,"body":"type heat flux sensors."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":959.974,"endTime":963.339,"body":"There's also a gourdon"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":959.974,"endTime":963.339,"body":"guide type hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":964.244,"endTime":968.158,"body":"a guard type heat flex"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":964.244,"endTime":968.158,"body":"sensor is a, a thin piece of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":968.158,"endTime":971.851,"body":"metal in which you measure"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":968.158,"endTime":971.851,"body":"the center and the edge."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":972.231,"endTime":974.771,"body":"And that difference"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":972.231,"endTime":974.771,"body":"corresponds to the heat"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":974.771,"endTime":976.011,"body":"flux that's received."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":976.858,"endTime":981.454,"body":"thermo pile actually acts like"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":976.858,"endTime":981.454,"body":"a, it is a thin layer, but it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":981.454,"endTime":985.828,"body":"has, the ability to measure"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":981.454,"endTime":985.828,"body":"temperature difference across"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":985.828,"endTime":988.981,"body":"that thin layer and from"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":985.828,"endTime":988.981,"body":"the conduction through it."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":989.481,"endTime":993.348,"body":"uh, you can get the heat"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":989.481,"endTime":993.348,"body":"flux and the thermo pile"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":993.348,"endTime":994.908,"body":"one is far superior."},{"speaker":"James 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and then suddenly"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1009.681,"endTime":1012.161,"body":"it sees a hot thing again."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1012.861,"endTime":1016.481,"body":"And so there's issues of heat"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1012.861,"endTime":1016.481,"body":"transfer, fluid mechanics of how"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1016.481,"endTime":1017.921,"body":"to really interpret that gauge."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1018.161,"endTime":1018.771,"body":"mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1018.784,"endTime":1020.824,"body":"People were"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1018.784,"endTime":1020.824,"body":"struggling with that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1020.934,"endTime":1022.624,"body":"I think people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1020.934,"endTime":1022.624,"body":"forgot that today,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech 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thermo pile gauge"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1053.789,"endTime":1055.229,"body":"is probably the best."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1055.426,"endTime":1059.053,"body":"The issues with those gauges"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1055.426,"endTime":1059.053,"body":"is that need to make sure"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1059.053,"endTime":1062.093,"body":"you know, the emissivity of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1059.053,"endTime":1062.093,"body":"the surface and the surface"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1062.093,"endTime":1066.183,"body":"doesn't get cor fouled up"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1062.093,"endTime":1066.183,"body":"during your experiment."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1066.452,"endTime":1069.503,"body":"In addition, if you try"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1066.452,"endTime":1069.503,"body":"to separate out radiation,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1069.503,"endTime":1071.103,"body":"you put a window over it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1071.113,"endTime":1071.723,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1072.023,"endTime":1075.123,"body":"and the window is now"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1072.023,"endTime":1075.123,"body":"transparent, but not"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1075.123,"endTime":1077.003,"body":"completely to radiation."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1077.793,"endTime":1079.063,"body":"So you have that issue."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1079.459,"endTime":1083.259,"body":"you try to blow air over the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1079.459,"endTime":1083.259,"body":"window to keep soot from coming"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1083.269,"endTime":1085.899,"body":"in, but it deposits anyway."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1086.644,"endTime":1089.668,"body":"So there are still"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1086.644,"endTime":1089.668,"body":"issues with those,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1089.751,"endTime":1090.361,"body":"gauges."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1091.561,"endTime":1095.121,"body":"very fundamental issue that I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1091.561,"endTime":1095.121,"body":"don't think has been resolved,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1095.121,"endTime":1098.921,"body":"and maybe ISOs tried to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1095.121,"endTime":1098.921,"body":"do this, but I don't think"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1098.921,"endTime":1102.938,"body":"they succeeded, to figure"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1098.921,"endTime":1102.938,"body":"out how, how to find a way"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1103.334,"endTime":1105.164,"body":"to calibrate these gauges."},{"speaker":"Wojciech 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a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1118.531,"endTime":1125.088,"body":"ellipsoidal, radiometer that has"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1125.098,"endTime":1128.078,"body":"uh, gold surfaces in an ellipse."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1128.578,"endTime":1131.541,"body":"And you one focal point"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1128.578,"endTime":1131.541,"body":"of the ellipse where the."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1132.271,"endTime":1135.171,"body":"the stuff enters and the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1132.271,"endTime":1135.171,"body":"other fo focal point,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1135.171,"endTime":1136.011,"body":"you have a sensor."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1136.523,"endTime":1136.683,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1137.008,"endTime":1139.968,"body":"and the gold allows you"},{"speaker":"James 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Quintiere","startTime":1167.341,"endTime":1169.621,"body":"black body someplace."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1169.641,"endTime":1174.664,"body":"And in my days at NIST"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1169.641,"endTime":1174.664,"body":"in the seventies, I went"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1174.664,"endTime":1176.104,"body":"to the people who did."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1176.198,"endTime":1179.488,"body":"radiometry measurements"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1176.198,"endTime":1179.488,"body":"for light and things"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1179.488,"endTime":1182.008,"body":"like that at mbs."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1182.258,"endTime":1186.006,"body":"So they were very accomplished"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1182.258,"endTime":1186.006,"body":"and understood, uh, spectral"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1186.094,"endTime":1190.331,"body":"aspects and emmis civilities,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1186.094,"endTime":1190.331,"body":"and they calibrated, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1190.331,"endTime":1194.768,"body":"thermo pile gauge for me that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1190.331,"endTime":1194.768,"body":"I bought for mether, and they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1195.048,"endTime":1199.071,"body":"calibrated it up to, I think,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1195.048,"endTime":1199.071,"body":"I don't know, maybe two,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1199.161,"endTime":1200.841,"body":"kilowatts per meter squared."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1200.841,"endTime":1204.121,"body":"They couldn't go beyond,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1200.841,"endTime":1204.121,"body":"they couldn't go beyond the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1204.121,"endTime":1208.001,"body":"certain, so they, they, they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1204.121,"endTime":1208.001,"body":"calibrated two of these for"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1208.001,"endTime":1212.601,"body":"me, and then I inherited a,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1208.001,"endTime":1212.601,"body":"a light source that gave me"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1212.601,"endTime":1215.881,"body":"ability to get to a hundred"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1212.601,"endTime":1215.881,"body":"kilowatts per meter squared."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1216.006,"endTime":1219.564,"body":"And so as, as long as I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1216.006,"endTime":1219.564,"body":"had a paint on this sensor,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1220.084,"endTime":1222.214,"body":"That was an emmis of one,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1222.294,"endTime":1222.904,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1223.014,"endTime":1225.934,"body":"did, I I, there was a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1223.014,"endTime":1225.934,"body":"special paint that gave you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1225.934,"endTime":1228.014,"body":"an emissivity of like 0.98."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1228.174,"endTime":1228.784,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1229.324,"endTime":1232.184,"body":"I had these two things"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1229.324,"endTime":1232.184,"body":"calibrated, and although"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1232.184,"endTime":1235.478,"body":"they were calibrated at"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1232.184,"endTime":1235.478,"body":"a low heat flux, we could"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1235.478,"endTime":1238.658,"body":"show that the thermo pile"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1235.478,"endTime":1238.658,"body":"gauge works in a linear way."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1239.448,"endTime":1239.728,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1239.728,"endTime":1240.048,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1240.208,"endTime":1243.198,"body":"So if, if you go to higher"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1240.208,"endTime":1243.198,"body":"heat flux, it's linear here,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1243.458,"endTime":1246.858,"body":"and you, you could show that,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1243.458,"endTime":1246.858,"body":"scientifically, uh, from"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1246.858,"endTime":1248.138,"body":"the theory of that gauge."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1248.551,"endTime":1252.174,"body":"so we developed, this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1248.551,"endTime":1252.174,"body":"technique and it stays"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1252.174,"endTime":1253.494,"body":"at NIST to this day."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1253.784,"endTime":1257.748,"body":"However, after I left nist,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1253.784,"endTime":1257.748,"body":"they lost one of the sensors"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1258.374,"endTime":1259.901,"body":"and, they used the sensor."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1260.678,"endTime":1264.141,"body":"To give to anyone in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1260.678,"endTime":1264.141,"body":"the cone that wants to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1264.381,"endTime":1265.432,"body":"calibrate their cone."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1265.648,"endTime":1270.141,"body":"And so this sensor that is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1265.648,"endTime":1270.141,"body":"supposed to be in a lockbox is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1270.141,"endTime":1272.181,"body":"distributed to people to use."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1272.682,"endTime":1277.184,"body":"Now, when you, when you have"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1272.682,"endTime":1277.184,"body":"a calibration source, you've"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1277.184,"endTime":1278.904,"body":"developed transfer standards."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1279.458,"endTime":1281.088,"body":"So people haven't done that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1281.434,"endTime":1286.654,"body":"the FAA, I've done work here,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1281.434,"endTime":1286.654,"body":"uh, I'm in New Jersey right now."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1287.104,"endTime":1290.674,"body":"they went to med and they got"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1287.104,"endTime":1290.674,"body":"assurances that they would"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1290.674,"endTime":1296.784,"body":"get the right so in recent"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1290.674,"endTime":1296.784,"body":"years, I took the sensor I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1296.784,"endTime":1300.864,"body":"had, which came from nist,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1296.784,"endTime":1300.864,"body":"you know, traceable to NIST"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1301.438,"endTime":1304.594,"body":"and That was traceable to mem."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1305.574,"endTime":1307.014,"body":"they were within 5%."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1307.944,"endTime":1310.574,"body":"So that's the kind of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1307.944,"endTime":1310.574,"body":"confidence level I have"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1310.574,"endTime":1311.814,"body":"today in those sensors."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1312.814,"endTime":1315.214,"body":"I do think that a lot of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1312.814,"endTime":1315.214,"body":"people should pay attention"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1315.214,"endTime":1316.654,"body":"to how they calibrate them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1316.918,"endTime":1318.108,"body":"uh, that's astonishing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1318.108,"endTime":1321.628,"body":"Like, uh, it, it seems you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1318.108,"endTime":1321.628,"body":"may even, like, you definitely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1321.628,"endTime":1323.691,"body":"had a higher comprehension of,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1323.861,"endTime":1324.491,"body":"of this,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1324.621,"endTime":1327.994,"body":"well, we worried about stuff"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1324.621,"endTime":1327.994,"body":"like that in those days."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1327.994,"endTime":1330.034,"body":"Like Bernie McCaffrey"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1330.034,"endTime":1332.114,"body":"wondered what's the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1330.034,"endTime":1332.114,"body":"best way to measure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1332.744,"endTime":1334.522,"body":"that, that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1332.744,"endTime":1334.522,"body":"was my next question, like,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1334.594,"endTime":1337.744,"body":"he, he said I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1334.594,"endTime":1337.744,"body":"could do it with a Pitot tube"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1337.744,"endTime":1341.718,"body":"I know a pitot tube is, now it,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1337.744,"endTime":1341.718,"body":"if he did it with a hot wire and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1341.718,"endTime":1343.718,"body":"put it in a fire plume, Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1343.858,"endTime":1345.008,"body":"it may not survive."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1345.428,"endTime":1346.038,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1346.048,"endTime":1349.728,"body":"the error that you would get"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1346.048,"endTime":1349.728,"body":"from the so collection or the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1349.728,"endTime":1353.396,"body":"buoyancy effect on, on the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1349.728,"endTime":1353.396,"body":"thing There would be problems."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1353.609,"endTime":1358.639,"body":"So went to the pitot tube,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1353.609,"endTime":1358.639,"body":"but then later on he went"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1358.639,"endTime":1362.239,"body":"to the bidirectional probe,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1358.639,"endTime":1362.239,"body":"particularly if we looked"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1362.239,"endTime":1366.47,"body":"at doorway flows, because"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1362.239,"endTime":1366.47,"body":"Heskestad developed that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1366.47,"endTime":1368.59,"body":"And if he wanted to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1366.47,"endTime":1368.59,"body":"measure a doorway flow,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1369.55,"endTime":1372.95,"body":"didn't want to take a,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1369.55,"endTime":1372.95,"body":"have two pito tubes there."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1373.211,"endTime":1373.701,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1373.876,"endTime":1376.636,"body":"made the bidirectional"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1373.876,"endTime":1376.636,"body":"probe, which works on"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1376.636,"endTime":1379.443,"body":"the same principle as"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1376.636,"endTime":1379.443,"body":"the Pito tube, in place"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1379.443,"endTime":1381.803,"body":"of two pito tubes in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1379.443,"endTime":1381.803,"body":"different directions,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1382.183,"endTime":1383.836,"body":"So, so to give a better"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1383.836,"endTime":1384.796,"body":"context to listeners."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1384.796,"endTime":1387.956,"body":"So we are here talking about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1384.796,"endTime":1387.956,"body":"compartment fire dynamics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1387.956,"endTime":1390.156,"body":"We just said that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1387.956,"endTime":1390.156,"body":"you had two layers."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1390.156,"endTime":1393.036,"body":"We've discussed how temperatures"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1390.156,"endTime":1393.036,"body":"were measured in layers."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1393.296,"endTime":1396.356,"body":"The second, next most important"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1393.296,"endTime":1396.356,"body":"thing is the opening at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1396.356,"endTime":1398.636,"body":"which the exchange of mass"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1396.356,"endTime":1398.636,"body":"between the compartment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1398.636,"endTime":1399.676,"body":"and exterior happens."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1400.006,"endTime":1403.876,"body":"So you really need to very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1400.006,"endTime":1403.876,"body":"precisely quantify the flow in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1403.876,"endTime":1407.712,"body":"and flow out in both in terms"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1403.876,"endTime":1407.712,"body":"of temperatures and terms of,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1407.773,"endTime":1408.912,"body":"the volumetric, uh, flows."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1409.183,"endTime":1411.893,"body":"So, so that's a challenging"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1409.183,"endTime":1411.893,"body":"measurement even today."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1411.893,"endTime":1414.32,"body":"And I think, what you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1411.893,"endTime":1414.32,"body":"are now describing the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1414.32,"endTime":1417.52,"body":"bidirectional probe is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1414.32,"endTime":1417.52,"body":"still the, the standard, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1417.88,"endTime":1418.0,"body":"approach."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1418.48,"endTime":1421.396,"body":"it is a way to do it,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1418.48,"endTime":1421.396,"body":"but at that time period,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1422.006,"endTime":1425.476,"body":"Hmm, like Bernie McCaffrey"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1422.006,"endTime":1425.476,"body":"said, okay, uh, Heskes that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1425.476,"endTime":1429.716,"body":"developed this, h how does it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1425.476,"endTime":1429.716,"body":"work compared to the pido tube?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1430.196,"endTime":1430.346,"body":"hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1430.346,"endTime":1435.34,"body":"what, uh, coefficient do I need"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1430.346,"endTime":1435.34,"body":"for this bidirectional probe?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1436.223,"endTime":1440.403,"body":"how is it affected by"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1436.223,"endTime":1440.403,"body":"the angle of the flow the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1440.403,"endTime":1443.363,"body":"direction of the velocity if"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1440.403,"endTime":1443.363,"body":"it doesn't hit it straight on?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1443.73,"endTime":1447.35,"body":"And so people were concerned"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1443.73,"endTime":1447.35,"body":"about that because if you put"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1447.35,"endTime":1451.79,"body":"this thing in a doorway flow,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1447.35,"endTime":1451.79,"body":"you see right away that if"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1451.79,"endTime":1455.55,"body":"flow is coming out, the flow"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1451.79,"endTime":1455.55,"body":"goes down over the soften"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1455.55,"endTime":1457.15,"body":"and then goes back up again."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1458.37,"endTime":1461.99,"body":"you, you have that probe"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1458.37,"endTime":1461.99,"body":"now in a way where the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1461.99,"endTime":1465.59,"body":"flow is actually changing"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1461.99,"endTime":1465.59,"body":"direction very strongly."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1466.29,"endTime":1469.78,"body":"And so is it measuring the,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1466.29,"endTime":1469.78,"body":"the flow accurately then?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1470.0,"endTime":1474.413,"body":"And so we looked at all"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1470.0,"endTime":1474.413,"body":"those issues  know, and Ed"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1474.413,"endTime":1478.653,"body":"Zukowski was another guy that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1474.413,"endTime":1478.653,"body":"took pains to make sure he"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1478.653,"endTime":1480.093,"body":"had the right measurements."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1480.46,"endTime":1483.92,"body":"and so measurement techniques"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1480.46,"endTime":1483.92,"body":"were important and their"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1483.92,"endTime":1487.588,"body":"validity, based on how"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1483.92,"endTime":1487.588,"body":"they're calibrated or how, how"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1487.588,"endTime":1488.731,"body":"they should be interpreted?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1489.025,"endTime":1490.595,"body":"were"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1489.025,"endTime":1490.595,"body":"the experiments on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1490.595,"endTime":1492.755,"body":"ceiling jets also carried"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1490.595,"endTime":1492.755,"body":"at NIST at that time?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1492.831,"endTime":1493.181,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1493.381,"endTime":1494.901,"body":"the ceiling jet was done."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1495.135,"endTime":1499.535,"body":"it was probably motivated"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1495.135,"endTime":1499.535,"body":"by John gave Ron Alper, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1499.675,"endTime":1504.135,"body":"his, of baptism into fire by"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1499.675,"endTime":1504.135,"body":"working on the ceiling jet."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1504.691,"endTime":1509.931,"body":"and so Ron, cobbled together, an"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1504.691,"endTime":1509.931,"body":"analysis of a plume to the jet."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1510.398,"endTime":1514.065,"body":"And, there's been, you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1510.398,"endTime":1514.065,"body":"know, uh, work on it since."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1514.805,"endTime":1517.895,"body":"But, even Spalding said to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1514.805,"endTime":1517.895,"body":"me one time, he says, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1517.895,"endTime":1519.335,"body":"jet will re Lamin rice."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1520.155,"endTime":1523.675,"body":"and so these are still"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1520.155,"endTime":1523.675,"body":"issues that people haven't"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1523.675,"endTime":1525.075,"body":"fully looked, looked at."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1526.045,"endTime":1530.225,"body":"one thing from the ceiling jet"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1526.045,"endTime":1530.225,"body":"work that Ron Albert did is very"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1530.855,"endTime":1537.508,"body":"useful for fire investigators"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1530.855,"endTime":1537.508,"body":"or fire And that is that a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1537.508,"endTime":1541.698,"body":"kind of a useful, simple rule"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1537.508,"endTime":1541.698,"body":"that comes out of the ceiling."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1541.698,"endTime":1545.418,"body":"Jet is the ceiling jet takes"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1541.698,"endTime":1545.418,"body":"up 10% of the room height."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1545.991,"endTime":1550.461,"body":"So if you don't have a sprinkler"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1545.991,"endTime":1550.461,"body":"or a detector in that region,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1550.938,"endTime":1552.975,"body":"they're the ceiling of 10%."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1553.375,"endTime":1554.564,"body":"It's not going to work."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1555.028,"endTime":1555.493,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1555.768,"endTime":1557.928,"body":"very useful stuff"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1555.768,"endTime":1557.928,"body":"came out of Ron"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1558.663,"endTime":1559.013,"body":"Oh."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1559.438,"endTime":1563.378,"body":"But if you go to extend that and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1559.438,"endTime":1563.378,"body":"try to extend it to flame length"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1563.378,"endTime":1566.418,"body":"under a ceiling, there's still"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1563.378,"endTime":1566.418,"body":"work that needs to be done."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1566.923,"endTime":1568.083,"body":"and that work stopped?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1568.496,"endTime":1569.943,"body":"how about entrainment?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1570.64,"endTime":1574.76,"body":"McCaffrey did experiments on,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1570.64,"endTime":1574.76,"body":"on fire plumes within an immense"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1574.76,"endTime":1576.24,"body":"amount of different fire plumes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1576.24,"endTime":1579.08,"body":"How, how was, how was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1576.24,"endTime":1579.08,"body":"entrainment captured"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1579.37,"endTime":1579.88,"body":"by you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1580.096,"endTime":1583.386,"body":"when in from McCaffrey"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1580.096,"endTime":1583.386,"body":"measurements, he measured"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1583.386,"endTime":1585.4,"body":"the distribution in a plume."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1585.67,"endTime":1586.34,"body":"of velocity?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1586.57,"endTime":1590.57,"body":"he, he measured the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1586.57,"endTime":1590.57,"body":"velocity across the radius"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1590.96,"endTime":1591.45,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1591.57,"endTime":1592.21,"body":"different heights."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1593.21,"endTime":1597.69,"body":"if he, if he did that, he got"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1593.21,"endTime":1597.69,"body":"the temperature and velocity"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1598.16,"endTime":1602.566,"body":"over that radius, then he could"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1598.16,"endTime":1602.566,"body":"integrate that and get mass"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1602.656,"endTime":1603.266,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1603.716,"endTime":1609.803,"body":"However, at the edges, he had"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1603.716,"endTime":1609.803,"body":"big, hes so, he did not put a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1609.803,"endTime":1613.89,"body":"lot of faith in his entrainment"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1609.803,"endTime":1613.89,"body":"interpretation from those"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1613.89,"endTime":1614.53,"body":"measurements."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1614.76,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"Don't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1614.76,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"tell me that my whole career"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1616.69,"endTime":1618.96,"body":"is on that, on this equation."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1619.135,"endTime":1621.755,"body":"The entrainment"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1619.135,"endTime":1621.755,"body":"work, the good entrainment"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1621.755,"endTime":1627.771,"body":"work comes from Ed Zukowski"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1621.755,"endTime":1627.771,"body":"and Byler picked it up as a,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1627.771,"endTime":1629.531,"body":"another student with Emmons."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1630.371,"endTime":1633.671,"body":"Ed Zokowski conceived of this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1630.371,"endTime":1633.671,"body":"thing that if you have a hood"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1634.016,"endTime":1634.626,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1634.671,"endTime":1638.985,"body":"and you're extracting gases"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1634.671,"endTime":1638.985,"body":"from it, and you put a fire"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1638.985,"endTime":1643.415,"body":"plume below it, the fire plume"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1638.985,"endTime":1643.415,"body":"will go and fill the hood"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1643.645,"endTime":1645.185,"body":"and some will spill over."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1645.46,"endTime":1646.07,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1646.266,"endTime":1646.756,"body":". Okay."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1646.831,"endTime":1651.781,"body":"Uh, but if you contain that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1646.831,"endTime":1651.781,"body":"fire plume in the hood and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1651.781,"endTime":1656.221,"body":"you don't get any spillover,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1651.781,"endTime":1656.221,"body":"essentially the, the plume"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1656.221,"endTime":1658.501,"body":"is going into that layer."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1658.916,"endTime":1661.136,"body":"And the flow is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1658.916,"endTime":1661.136,"body":"coming out the top."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1661.796,"endTime":1667.273,"body":"And so if you vary the height"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1661.796,"endTime":1667.273,"body":"of the, the flame, you could get"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1667.273,"endTime":1673.106,"body":"entrainment at different levels"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1667.273,"endTime":1673.106,"body":"in the flame by that, ture type,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1673.663,"endTime":1673.903,"body":"technique."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1674.436,"endTime":1679.993,"body":"and so Zukowski that showed"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1674.436,"endTime":1679.993,"body":"that, that could be an accurate"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1679.993,"endTime":1681.433,"body":"way of making the measurement."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1681.686,"endTime":1684.906,"body":"And then Byler and other"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1681.686,"endTime":1684.906,"body":"people probably picked it up."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1684.953,"endTime":1688.563,"body":"But the best measurements"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1684.953,"endTime":1688.563,"body":"come from, Zukowski."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1688.808,"endTime":1689.591,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1689.776,"endTime":1693.296,"body":"I think in zukowski did"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1689.776,"endTime":1693.296,"body":"it at different sizes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1693.676,"endTime":1694.176,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1694.5,"endTime":1696.91,"body":"some people do it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1694.5,"endTime":1696.91,"body":"for a point source,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1697.485,"endTime":1697.725,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1698.29,"endTime":1700.13,"body":"can't work for a point source."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1700.13,"endTime":1703.083,"body":"You have to, get some"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1700.13,"endTime":1703.083,"body":"measurements and then"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1703.863,"endTime":1708.003,"body":"extrapolate it to a virtual"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1703.863,"endTime":1708.003,"body":"origin and do things like that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1708.423,"endTime":1712.763,"body":"But Zukowski measurements"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1708.423,"endTime":1712.763,"body":"of different sizes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1713.29,"endTime":1717.166,"body":"And again, if you try to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1713.29,"endTime":1717.166,"body":"take in the effective size,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1718.026,"endTime":1722.203,"body":"you can get an equation that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1718.026,"endTime":1722.203,"body":"covers most of the data."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1722.816,"endTime":1724.92,"body":"And I think it's in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1722.816,"endTime":1724.92,"body":"my book someplace."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1725.01,"endTime":1728.84,"body":"We, one of my students helped,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1725.01,"endTime":1728.84,"body":"integrate all of that data."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1729.716,"endTime":1733.131,"body":"but, there still needs to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1729.716,"endTime":1733.131,"body":"be work done there because,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1733.131,"endTime":1734.67,"body":"you have a big pool fire."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1735.71,"endTime":1736.48,"body":"A big pool."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1736.48,"endTime":1739.16,"body":"Fire is basically"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1736.48,"endTime":1739.16,"body":"laminar at the base."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1739.98,"endTime":1743.89,"body":"So its entrainment is totally"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1739.98,"endTime":1743.89,"body":"different than after you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1743.89,"endTime":1745.46,"body":"get beyond that region."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1746.4,"endTime":1751.266,"body":"Now is, if FDS is, giving you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1746.4,"endTime":1751.266,"body":"the answer to all of that, is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1751.266,"endTime":1754.586,"body":"it good in that lamina range as"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1751.266,"endTime":1754.586,"body":"well as in the turbulent range?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1754.936,"endTime":1755.506,"body":"I don't know."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1756.251,"endTime":1756.371,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1756.466,"endTime":1762.28,"body":"So those problems still are out"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1756.466,"endTime":1762.28,"body":"there  And because you people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1762.28,"endTime":1767.736,"body":"use C f D, think they got it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1762.28,"endTime":1767.736,"body":"all already when, they may not."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1768.043,"endTime":1768.765,"body":"That's the."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1768.86,"endTime":1772.933,"body":"before CF d you, you would"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1768.86,"endTime":1772.933,"body":"focus on the experiment and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1772.933,"endTime":1775.493,"body":"you say, look, what's happening"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1772.933,"endTime":1775.493,"body":"down there at the bottom?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1775.493,"endTime":1778.493,"body":"That's laminar, but"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1775.493,"endTime":1778.493,"body":"I'm analyzing this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1778.493,"endTime":1779.813,"body":"as a turbulent plume."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1780.26,"endTime":1783.52,"body":"How can my my answer be"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1780.26,"endTime":1783.52,"body":"right down at the bottom?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1783.913,"endTime":1785.416,"body":"and so that's, swept"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1785.416,"endTime":1785.696,"body":"away."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1785.696,"endTime":1785.976,"body":"Now,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1786.273,"endTime":1787.123,"body":"Very, very"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1787.363,"endTime":1787.643,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1787.783,"endTime":1788.203,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1788.263,"endTime":1791.783,"body":"CF d prevents us from looking"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1788.263,"endTime":1791.783,"body":"there because we say, look,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1791.783,"endTime":1793.023,"body":"we, we got it down there."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1793.193,"endTime":1794.223,"body":"It looks laminate."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1794.79,"endTime":1797.17,"body":"the lack of, um, of full"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1797.17,"endTime":1799.65,"body":"scale research, uh, is, is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1799.76,"endTime":1800.32,"body":"full scale."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1800.32,"endTime":1801.56,"body":"You could do work on a,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1801.83,"endTime":1802.32,"body":"okay."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1802.44,"endTime":1805.996,"body":"spread on a napkin and,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1802.44,"endTime":1805.996,"body":"and still not fully"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1805.996,"endTime":1806.836,"body":"understand it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1806.953,"endTime":1808.258,"body":"That's, a challenging,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1808.258,"endTime":1808.736,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1808.736,"endTime":1811.563,"body":"Well, I mean, you go to the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1808.736,"endTime":1811.563,"body":"work of flame spread, right?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1811.953,"endTime":1812.015,"body":"hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1812.015,"endTime":1816.013,"body":"Concurrent flame spread is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1812.015,"endTime":1816.013,"body":"still complicated because"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1816.013,"endTime":1818.373,"body":"it involves turbulent"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1816.013,"endTime":1818.373,"body":"and radiation from that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1818.866,"endTime":1823.106,"body":"but a post flow flame spread"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1818.866,"endTime":1823.106,"body":"is more simple because it's a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1823.106,"endTime":1827.626,"body":"very kind of stable laminate"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1823.106,"endTime":1827.626,"body":"flame moving, moving along."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1828.616,"endTime":1833.323,"body":"Fernandez when you, hopefully"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1828.616,"endTime":1833.323,"body":"you'll interview him and he"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1833.323,"endTime":1836.963,"body":"could give you the history"},{"speaker":"James 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safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1850.233,"endTime":1851.143,"body":"We got everything"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1851.143,"endTime":1851.326,"body":"now."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1851.506,"endTime":1855.436,"body":"I, I don't know, but you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1851.506,"endTime":1855.436,"body":"know, upward flame spread"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1855.436,"endTime":1857.46,"body":"is still, upward burning."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1857.71,"endTime":1858.32,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1858.5,"endTime":1860.42,"body":"people I saw that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1858.5,"endTime":1860.42,"body":"did upward burning."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1860.92,"endTime":1866.176,"body":"To match experiments done at"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1860.92,"endTime":1866.176,"body":"FM Global and by Jerry Faith"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1866.66,"endTime":1872.923,"body":"are the using the, fire foam"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1866.66,"endTime":1872.923,"body":"code from, uh, FM Global, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1872.923,"endTime":1877.323,"body":"uh, Ning Ren and, ye I mean"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1872.923,"endTime":1877.323,"body":"they produce good results, but"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1877.323,"endTime":1880.763,"body":"they had to get that turbulent"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1877.323,"endTime":1880.763,"body":"boundary layer working,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1881.408,"endTime":1881.568,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1881.613,"endTime":1884.393,"body":"and I'm still not sure how NIST"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1884.393,"endTime":1885.153,"body":"handles that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1885.745,"endTime":1888.325,"body":"Now to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1885.745,"endTime":1888.325,"body":"go back to the experimental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1888.325,"endTime":1890.165,"body":"design, I think at some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1888.325,"endTime":1890.165,"body":"point of the interview"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1890.165,"endTime":1893.125,"body":"you've, uh, you've referred"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1890.165,"endTime":1893.125,"body":"to them as box buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1893.255,"endTime":1896.838,"body":"Uh, so, uh, how you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1893.255,"endTime":1896.838,"body":"constructing them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1896.838,"endTime":1898.998,"body":"How are you choosing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1896.838,"endTime":1898.998,"body":"like the configurations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1899.328,"endTime":1902.078,"body":"to, to go where you're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1899.328,"endTime":1902.078,"body":"starting with a very simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1902.558,"endTime":1906.358,"body":"configuration of a compartment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1902.558,"endTime":1906.358,"body":"corridor mixing them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1906.388,"endTime":1908.158,"body":"What was the logic behind that?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1908.224,"endTime":1910.216,"body":"Well, it,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1908.224,"endTime":1910.216,"body":"again, these things were"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1910.216,"endTime":1912.336,"body":"motivated by c certain things."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1912.773,"endTime":1917.503,"body":"when I got my feet wet in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1912.773,"endTime":1917.503,"body":"fire nist, it was looking"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1917.503,"endTime":1920.743,"body":"at these corridor fires"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1917.503,"endTime":1920.743,"body":"involving floor covering"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1921.543,"endTime":1922.153,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1922.183,"endTime":1922.903,"body":"a room in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1923.623,"endTime":1925.163,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1923.623,"endTime":1925.163,"body":"said that was an effect"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1925.163,"endTime":1927.366,"body":"of a fire that happened"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1925.163,"endTime":1927.366,"body":"and, and, blocked people."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1927.736,"endTime":1930.386,"body":"Yes, there"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1927.736,"endTime":1930.386,"body":"was a fire in a, nursing"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1930.386,"endTime":1931.786,"body":"home in Pennsylvania."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1932.606,"endTime":1937.62,"body":"And source of funding at that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1932.606,"endTime":1937.62,"body":"time was, the housing department"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1937.83,"endTime":1940.74,"body":"in the US government, and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1937.83,"endTime":1940.74,"body":"they gave a lot of money to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1940.74,"endTime":1942.22,"body":"NIST to study those fires."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1942.52,"endTime":1946.23,"body":"So where one side of, uh,"},{"speaker":"James 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Quintiere","startTime":1978.16,"endTime":1979.0,"body":"of stimulation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1979.691,"endTime":1982.941,"body":"when, um,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1979.691,"endTime":1982.941,"body":"looking at, uh, that research,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1982.941,"endTime":1986.221,"body":"correct me if I'm wrong,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1982.941,"endTime":1986.221,"body":"but I I've, I didn't see any"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1986.941,"endTime":1988.221,"body":"research on vehicle fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1988.221,"endTime":1988.461,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1989.361,"endTime":1990.051,"body":"what kind"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1990.111,"endTime":1993.008,"body":"vehicle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1990.111,"endTime":1993.008,"body":"fires Like cars in garage."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1993.678,"endTime":1994.168,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1994.243,"endTime":1994.701,"body":"Uh, yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1994.701,"endTime":1995.377,"body":"There weren't"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1995.645,"endTime":2000.788,"body":"yes, because at that time the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":1995.645,"endTime":2000.788,"body":"focus was flashover fire tests."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2000.968,"endTime":2004.468,"body":"How are they doing a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2000.968,"endTime":2004.468,"body":"good job with materials?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2005.468,"endTime":2006.708,"body":"they causing flashover?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2007.198,"endTime":2008.984,"body":"So the, focus was room fires."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2009.068,"endTime":2013.402,"body":"the, fires in cars only became"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2009.068,"endTime":2013.402,"body":"like, an anecdote when they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2013.682,"endTime":2018.242,"body":"discovered that the statistics"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2013.682,"endTime":2018.242,"body":"on people dying in car fires,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2018.608,"endTime":2020.662,"body":"was, off by a factor of 10."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2021.155,"endTime":2024.515,"body":"And so immediately the,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2021.155,"endTime":2024.515,"body":"Death rate in fire in the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2024.515,"endTime":2027.098,"body":"US went from 8,000, a year,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2027.575,"endTime":2028.885,"body":"to 4,000"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2028.998,"endTime":2030.428,"body":"by correcting By by, by"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2030.428,"endTime":2031.468,"body":"correcting the, the vehicle."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2031.468,"endTime":2031.883,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2032.258,"endTime":2032.678,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2032.938,"endTime":2037.078,"body":"And, fires in motor vehicle to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2032.938,"endTime":2037.078,"body":"give you perspective is 40,000"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2037.138,"endTime":2037.748,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2037.982,"endTime":2041.895,"body":"and today the, I think"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2037.982,"endTime":2041.895,"body":"the number might be 4,000"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2041.895,"endTime":2043.655,"body":"for fire in the US today."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2044.348,"endTime":2045.172,"body":"So no one"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2045.172,"endTime":2046.612,"body":"worries about fire anymore."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2046.679,"endTime":2047.933,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2046.679,"endTime":2047.933,"body":"I, I think now with the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2048.173,"endTime":2050.373,"body":"electric vehicles, it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2048.173,"endTime":2050.373,"body":"became a trendy topic again,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2050.588,"endTime":2052.718,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2050.588,"endTime":2052.718,"body":"yes, but they'll solve that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2052.718,"endTime":2054.975,"body":"problem because look, using"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2055.045,"endTime":2057.135,"body":"gasoline in vehicles for over"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2057.96,"endTime":2059.64,"body":"which is kind of flammable"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2060.115,"endTime":2060.535,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2060.535,"endTime":2064.415,"body":"More worse than the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2060.535,"endTime":2064.415,"body":"batteries always."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2064.7,"endTime":2065.693,"body":"They're flammable."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2065.953,"endTime":2070.133,"body":"The batteries are only going"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2065.953,"endTime":2070.133,"body":"to be a problem if they're,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2070.203,"endTime":2072.053,"body":"they have a fatal flaw"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2072.623,"endTime":2075.993,"body":"Hmm when they were made"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2072.623,"endTime":2075.993,"body":"or if there's an accident."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2076.203,"endTime":2079.933,"body":"And the reason is, if you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2076.203,"endTime":2079.933,"body":"have one go bad, they'll"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2079.933,"endTime":2083.613,"body":"all go bad because the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2079.933,"endTime":2083.613,"body":"batteries only this big."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2084.105,"endTime":2085.95,"body":"it's like a a, double A battery"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2086.61,"endTime":2087.1,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2087.21,"endTime":2089.55,"body":"has thousands of these"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2087.21,"endTime":2089.55,"body":"things in their cars."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2090.0,"endTime":2090.42,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2090.48,"endTime":2092.19,"body":"so so they'll figure out a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2092.19,"endTime":2093.8,"body":"way to prevent it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2093.956,"endTime":2097.717,"body":"Y your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2093.956,"endTime":2097.717,"body":"research, this era of research"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2097.727,"endTime":2102.397,"body":"at, at NIST also coincided with,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2097.727,"endTime":2102.397,"body":"uh, increased use of plastics."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2102.747,"endTime":2103.167,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2103.301,"endTime":2107.447,"body":"that's why the fire service"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2103.301,"endTime":2107.447,"body":"started to say, Hey, we're"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2107.447,"endTime":2109.767,"body":"seeing fires occur a lot faster."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2109.857,"endTime":2111.247,"body":"We can't get there fast."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2111.957,"endTime":2113.877,"body":"and somehow they're"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2111.957,"endTime":2113.877,"body":"growing faster."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2114.303,"endTime":2118.923,"body":"And so people started to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2114.303,"endTime":2118.923,"body":"say plastics and people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2118.923,"endTime":2120.843,"body":"started to say test methods."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2121.537,"endTime":2124.567,"body":"So the focus of this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2121.537,"endTime":2124.567,"body":"early science research"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2125.527,"endTime":2130.517,"body":"on fires developing fast"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2125.527,"endTime":2130.517,"body":"in a room flashover,  how"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2130.517,"endTime":2132.037,"body":"do test methods behave?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2132.527,"endTime":2136.307,"body":"So a lot of the research was"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2132.527,"endTime":2136.307,"body":"focused on how does the, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2136.307,"endTime":2140.847,"body":"so-called tunnel test in the US"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2136.307,"endTime":2140.847,"body":"with fire down a, a tunnel like"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2140.847,"endTime":2142.647,"body":"thing with a fire on a ceiling."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2143.073,"endTime":2144.713,"body":"how is that really working?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2145.317,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"how does, um, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2145.317,"endTime":2148.54,"body":"cup burner work,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2149.1,"endTime":2149.26,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2149.493,"endTime":2152.233,"body":"how does Fire on a Rod work?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2152.437,"endTime":2157.323,"body":"How does the, uh, test for"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2152.437,"endTime":2157.323,"body":"you know, upward spread"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2157.653,"endTime":2157.813,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2158.003,"endTime":2159.643,"body":"a little material work."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2159.823,"endTime":2162.34,"body":"So there was focus"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2159.823,"endTime":2162.34,"body":"on those things too."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2162.8,"endTime":2163.7,"body":"And that's what"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2163.7,"endTime":2165.34,"body":"prompted work on flame spread."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2165.5,"endTime":2167.682,"body":"but you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2165.5,"endTime":2167.682,"body":"were trying to incorporate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2167.682,"endTime":2171.762,"body":"that, uh, with the, the full"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2167.682,"endTime":2171.762,"body":"compartment size test, like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2171.762,"endTime":2175.282,"body":"the time to flash over the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2171.762,"endTime":2175.282,"body":"spread on a, on a carpet."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2175.412,"endTime":2178.722,"body":"So, so it was not just the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2175.412,"endTime":2178.722,"body":"material properties, it was,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2178.722,"endTime":2182.162,"body":"uh, a full scale physics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2178.722,"endTime":2182.162,"body":"of the whole compartment"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2182.162,"endTime":2183.002,"body":"at fire, right?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2183.313,"endTime":2187.883,"body":"I think the focus on room"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2183.313,"endTime":2187.883,"body":"fires, yes, flashover was a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2187.883,"endTime":2189.483,"body":"motivator in what that was."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2190.067,"endTime":2194.407,"body":"But when people started,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2190.067,"endTime":2194.407,"body":"modeling the fire, they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2194.407,"endTime":2195.287,"body":"didn't think they could."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2195.937,"endTime":2201.037,"body":"Put in all the aspects of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2195.937,"endTime":2201.037,"body":"fire spread do that correctly."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2201.067,"endTime":2203.903,"body":"They were still looked"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2201.067,"endTime":2203.903,"body":"at independently,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2203.949,"endTime":2204.435,"body":"Mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2204.77,"endTime":2209.583,"body":"some people use FDS to model"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2204.77,"endTime":2209.583,"body":"fire spread in a building today."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2209.813,"endTime":2210.783,"body":"I mean, you can do that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2210.783,"endTime":2214.76,"body":"But there's a, there's a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2210.783,"endTime":2214.76,"body":"group called, there used to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2214.76,"endTime":2218.16,"body":"be a, a meeting annually,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2214.76,"endTime":2218.16,"body":"internationally where people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2218.16,"endTime":2223.023,"body":"came from all different places"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2218.16,"endTime":2223.023,"body":"to show how they, applied fds."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2223.364,"endTime":2227.163,"body":"And I think, uh, Kevin McGrattan"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2223.364,"endTime":2227.163,"body":"would cringe when he saw,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2227.993,"endTime":2230.643,"body":"Yeah, I, I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2227.993,"endTime":2230.643,"body":"I also have very limited belief"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2230.643,"endTime":2233.643,"body":"in modeling fire spread in fds."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2233.643,"endTime":2237.267,"body":"There are tricks that you can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2233.643,"endTime":2237.267,"body":"apply, and simplifications you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2237.267,"endTime":2238.987,"body":"can make, so it looks realistic"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2239.137,"endTime":2241.737,"body":"you you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2239.137,"endTime":2241.737,"body":"can do it, you can, you can"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2241.737,"endTime":2243.177,"body":"use the code to do that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2244.042,"endTime":2246.802,"body":"but the question is, are you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2244.042,"endTime":2246.802,"body":"getting the right answer?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2247.178,"endTime":2247.597,"body":"in the."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2247.602,"endTime":2250.435,"body":"just, just a turbulent"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2247.602,"endTime":2250.435,"body":"burning wall."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2250.888,"endTime":2255.128,"body":"when I saw fm, do that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2250.888,"endTime":2255.128,"body":"with their fire foam do"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2255.128,"endTime":2258.115,"body":"that correctly to the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2255.128,"endTime":2258.115,"body":"data, I was impressed."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2258.565,"endTime":2262.582,"body":"more like that should be,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2258.565,"endTime":2262.582,"body":"my opinion, should be, done."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2263.013,"endTime":2263.303,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2263.933,"endTime":2265.383,"body":"completely agree to that,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2265.628,"endTime":2269.028,"body":"you, have"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2265.628,"endTime":2269.028,"body":"worked by Koseki done under"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2269.028,"endTime":2273.845,"body":"Hirano , which are big"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2269.028,"endTime":2273.845,"body":"fires and they show aspects"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2273.845,"endTime":2275.525,"body":"of these big pool fires."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2275.99,"endTime":2280.225,"body":"I challenge the CFD people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2275.99,"endTime":2280.225,"body":"to reproduce that data."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2280.351,"endTime":2282.077,"body":"I, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2280.351,"endTime":2282.077,"body":"still think even reproducing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2282.077,"endTime":2285.357,"body":"something as, as simple,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2282.077,"endTime":2285.357,"body":"if I may, as temperatures"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2285.367,"endTime":2287.947,"body":"in, fire compartments,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2285.367,"endTime":2287.947,"body":"that's already a challenge."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2287.947,"endTime":2293.107,"body":"Like, whenever I see a paper"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2287.947,"endTime":2293.107,"body":"that, uh, is a CFD paper and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2293.107,"endTime":2296.947,"body":"they show me a comparison"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2293.107,"endTime":2296.947,"body":"with experiment, and they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2296.947,"endTime":2300.143,"body":"show, you know, this perfect,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2296.947,"endTime":2300.143,"body":"alignment of temperature, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2300.313,"endTime":2302.303,"body":"between CFD and experiment."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2302.303,"endTime":2306.383,"body":"I, my first thought is that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2302.303,"endTime":2306.383,"body":"that this is either made up"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2306.383,"endTime":2309.263,"body":"or, or, or mistake because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2306.383,"endTime":2309.263,"body":"it's, it's, it's almost"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2309.263,"endTime":2310.663,"body":"impossible to get this,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2310.821,"endTime":2311.46,"body":"correct."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2311.77,"endTime":2312.26,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2312.485,"endTime":2315.405,"body":"maybe, maybe it's,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2312.485,"endTime":2315.405,"body":"it's not impossible."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2315.455,"endTime":2319.77,"body":"If you designed the experiment"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2315.455,"endTime":2319.77,"body":"to fit the CFD model, Okay."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2319.77,"endTime":2320.45,"body":"This way is."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2320.885,"endTime":2324.725,"body":"designed the experiment,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2320.885,"endTime":2324.725,"body":"so based on the strengths"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2324.725,"endTime":2328.515,"body":"of the CFD model, then you,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2324.725,"endTime":2328.515,"body":"you might get good results."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2328.515,"endTime":2332.912,"body":"I'm not saying CF  I'm saying"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2328.515,"endTime":2332.912,"body":"that there's aspects of it that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2332.988,"endTime":2336.198,"body":"need to be improved, especially"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2332.988,"endTime":2336.198,"body":"for something like fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2336.327,"endTime":2337.96,"body":"1"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2336.327,"endTime":2337.96,"body":"interesting thing about the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2337.96,"endTime":2340.64,"body":"experiments you've carried"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2337.96,"endTime":2340.64,"body":"at NBS that we're discussing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2340.64,"endTime":2345.16,"body":"today, today, your experiments,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2340.64,"endTime":2345.16,"body":"for example, the done, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2345.16,"endTime":2347.92,"body":"one done with Steckler about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2345.16,"endTime":2347.92,"body":"the fires in compartments,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2348.1,"endTime":2351.183,"body":"but also the, the, corridor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2348.1,"endTime":2351.183,"body":"compartment experiments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2352.023,"endTime":2356.503,"body":"These are staple validation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2352.023,"endTime":2356.503,"body":"cases for today's models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2356.853,"endTime":2358.943,"body":"Have you, was this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2356.853,"endTime":2358.943,"body":"your intention?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2358.943,"endTime":2362.583,"body":"Have you foreseen that 40 years"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2358.943,"endTime":2362.583,"body":"later, people will still refer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.583,"endTime":2364.83,"body":"to those as the, validation"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2364.83,"endTime":2365.07,"body":"points."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2365.688,"endTime":2369.652,"body":"No, but I'm, I, I am"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2365.688,"endTime":2369.652,"body":"impressed, with,  there were"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2369.652,"endTime":2373.732,"body":"CFD models before fds, uh,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2369.652,"endTime":2373.732,"body":"some of them out of Imperial"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2373.732,"endTime":2376.382,"body":"College and uh, the Staler."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2376.647,"endTime":2381.807,"body":"experiments that we did,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2376.647,"endTime":2381.807,"body":"were basis of, trying to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2382.087,"endTime":2384.087,"body":"validate those c f D models."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2384.827,"endTime":2387.823,"body":"And as I 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Quintiere","startTime":2402.007,"endTime":2405.767,"body":"got some improved results."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2405.797,"endTime":2409.003,"body":"I forget the details of that,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2405.797,"endTime":2409.003,"body":"but published someplace."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2410.073,"endTime":2412.983,"body":"we didn't think it was"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2410.073,"endTime":2412.983,"body":"going to be the b the basis"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2413.033,"endTime":2414.783,"body":"to validate c f D models."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2415.703,"endTime":2421.416,"body":"It, it was to get a fundamental"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2415.703,"endTime":2421.416,"body":"understanding before that, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2421.416,"endTime":2426.94,"body":"only, results that were kind of"},{"speaker":"James 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Quintiere","startTime":2500.191,"endTime":2502.451,"body":"and then to measure the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2500.191,"endTime":2502.451,"body":"temperatures, right?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2502.605,"endTime":2507.418,"body":"we used, work that was done at"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2502.605,"endTime":2507.418,"body":"fm, To investigate the accuracy"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2507.418,"endTime":2511.978,"body":"of aspirated thermo couples"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2507.418,"endTime":2511.978,"body":"where you put a thermocouple in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2511.978,"endTime":2514.138,"body":"a tube and you suck air over it."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2514.828,"endTime":2519.038,"body":"So when the, the air comes"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2514.828,"endTime":2519.038,"body":"into that tube, you're"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2519.038,"endTime":2522.098,"body":"measuring really the air"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2519.038,"endTime":2522.098,"body":"temperature, at a high"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2522.298,"endTime":2523.738,"body":"velocity over the thermocouple."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2524.468,"endTime":2527.148,"body":"if you just put the Therma"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2524.468,"endTime":2527.148,"body":"couple in bear and you"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2527.148,"endTime":2528.508,"body":"have a fire in hot walls,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2529.548,"endTime":2530.428,"body":"seeing radiation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2530.807,"endTime":2531.968,"body":"how, how deep is the, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2531.968,"endTime":2533.008,"body":"thermocouple into the tube?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech 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the,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2567.246,"endTime":2571.133,"body":"bidirectional probes where the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2571.133,"endTime":2575.503,"body":"flow was going to be horizontal,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2571.133,"endTime":2575.503,"body":"you know, even though it's Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2575.533,"endTime":2575.773,"body":"this."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2576.084,"endTime":2578.656,"body":"And so we, we did"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2576.084,"endTime":2578.656,"body":"the best, we could."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2579.096,"endTime":2582.696,"body":"Those experiments were done"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2579.096,"endTime":2582.696,"body":"not on the NIST campus."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2583.326,"endTime":2587.67,"body":"They were done at a site"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2583.326,"endTime":2587.67,"body":"that NIST inherited from"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2587.7,"endTime":2592.43,"body":"a missile defense site"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2587.7,"endTime":2592.43,"body":"with underground missiles."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2593.203,"endTime":2597.273,"body":"And so we got a building,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2593.203,"endTime":2597.273,"body":"on those grounds where we"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2597.273,"endTime":2601.873,"body":"could do this and leave it"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2597.273,"endTime":2601.873,"body":"set up for the whole time."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2602.645,"endTime":2605.161,"body":"That took some politics too,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2605.595,"endTime":2605.755,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2606.288,"endTime":2609.678,"body":"in the missile pits later"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2606.288,"endTime":2609.678,"body":"on, they were doing work"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2609.688,"endTime":2613.558,"body":"on, I think Dave Evans was"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2609.688,"endTime":2613.558,"body":"doing work on ceiling jets"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2613.558,"endTime":2616.758,"body":"because it was a very quiet"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2613.558,"endTime":2616.758,"body":"environment underground."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2617.203,"endTime":2621.998,"body":"so we, we had this extra,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2617.203,"endTime":2621.998,"body":"because not, I could not build"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2621.998,"endTime":2626.558,"body":"a full scale room at nist, and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2621.998,"endTime":2626.558,"body":"if I went to the place where"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2626.558,"endTime":2630.441,"body":"we had the big laboratory, we"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2626.558,"endTime":2630.441,"body":"couldn't exhaust that easily."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2630.551,"endTime":2632.625,"body":"I mean, so it, it was tricky."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2632.931,"endTime":2637.095,"body":"So we, we got, know, permission"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2632.931,"endTime":2637.095,"body":"to do these fire experiments,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2637.095,"endTime":2641.011,"body":"clean fires, and we, can"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2637.095,"endTime":2641.011,"body":"move the, uh, fire plume"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2641.011,"endTime":2644.171,"body":"around so we could show the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2641.011,"endTime":2644.171,"body":"effect of when you put it in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2644.171,"endTime":2645.291,"body":"there, a door or an narrow."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2646.481,"endTime":2648.951,"body":"or, you know, you would"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2646.481,"endTime":2648.951,"body":"get different results."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2648.951,"endTime":2653.047,"body":"And so it, it was"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2648.951,"endTime":2653.047,"body":"really gratifying work."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2653.315,"endTime":2655.535,"body":"the technician involved in that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2655.535,"endTime":2660.415,"body":"Bill Rankin, lives in, uh, I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2655.535,"endTime":2660.415,"body":"think Northern Michigan on Lake"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2661.768,"endTime":2665.741,"body":"His heritage is, from Finland"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2661.768,"endTime":2665.741,"body":"and he became very close to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2665.741,"endTime":2670.661,"body":"Matt Kokola when Matt Kokola"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2665.741,"endTime":2670.661,"body":"came and spent time with us."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2670.751,"endTime":2674.925,"body":"So in the eighties when I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2670.751,"endTime":2674.925,"body":"had my group, I invited a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2674.925,"endTime":2679.001,"body":"lot of people from abroad"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2674.925,"endTime":2679.001,"body":"to come and integrate with"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2679.001,"endTime":2680.721,"body":"our group and, and work."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2680.848,"endTime":2684.665,"body":"And, Matt Kok has with"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2680.848,"endTime":2684.665,"body":"this guy Bill Rankin, and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2685.055,"endTime":2689.225,"body":"they did experiments of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2685.055,"endTime":2689.225,"body":"flames on ceilings that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2689.225,"endTime":2690.545,"body":"have all kinds of shapes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2690.685,"endTime":2693.665,"body":"You, you maybe use, could"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2690.685,"endTime":2693.665,"body":"see pictures of them."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2694.545,"endTime":2697.105,"body":"Someplace, but they're"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2694.545,"endTime":2697.105,"body":"quite remarkable."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2697.525,"endTime":2701.665,"body":"And again, I don't think anybody"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2697.525,"endTime":2701.665,"body":"has reproduced them by C f"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2701.665,"endTime":2701.865,"body":"D."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2702.195,"endTime":2702.995,"body":"Beautiful."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2703.438,"endTime":2707.485,"body":"one thing I wanted to ask you,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2703.438,"endTime":2707.485,"body":"given the modern technology"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2707.485,"endTime":2713.355,"body":"we got today, my generation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2707.485,"endTime":2713.355,"body":"of fire experiment, you know,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2713.515,"endTime":2716.126,"body":"laser velocity, fantastic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2716.126,"endTime":2720.748,"body":"color, uh, devices, F T"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2716.126,"endTime":2720.748,"body":"I R spectrometers that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2720.748,"endTime":2724.908,"body":"you can integrate into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2720.748,"endTime":2724.908,"body":"your, uh, smoke exhausts"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2725.188,"endTime":2726.388,"body":"multi wavelength"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2726.738,"endTime":2730.498,"body":"But, iso, when they were"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2726.738,"endTime":2730.498,"body":"looking at F T R R results for"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2730.858,"endTime":2734.235,"body":"toxicity, laboratories couldn't"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2730.858,"endTime":2734.235,"body":"get consistent measurements."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2734.758,"endTime":2736.998,"body":"You know, that No,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2734.758,"endTime":2736.998,"body":"I didn't know that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2737.338,"endTime":2737.498,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2737.498,"endTime":2739.058,"body":"the people on a"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2737.498,"endTime":2739.058,"body":"toxicity committee."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2739.426,"endTime":2741.156,"body":"I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2739.426,"endTime":2741.156,"body":"I'm, I'm actually, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2741.156,"endTime":2743.746,"body":"going to have David per"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2741.156,"endTime":2743.746,"body":"soon into the, the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2743.746,"endTime":2745.546,"body":"I'll ask him about that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2745.813,"endTime":2749.136,"body":"I don't think"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2745.813,"endTime":2749.136,"body":"F D I R was current in David"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2749.136,"endTime":2751.456,"body":"Pursers time, but"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2749.136,"endTime":2751.456,"body":"please say hello to him."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2751.916,"endTime":2752.846,"body":"I will, I will."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2753.07,"endTime":2757.116,"body":"but, but Jim, the, the question"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2753.07,"endTime":2757.116,"body":"is like, if he could like pick"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2757.116,"endTime":2760.916,"body":"one tool of the modern fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2757.116,"endTime":2760.916,"body":"science and, and tr try travel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2761.156,"endTime":2764.356,"body":"it to the eighties, like, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2761.156,"endTime":2764.356,"body":"what do you think is the coolest"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2764.356,"endTime":2767.29,"body":"thing we, we have now that you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2764.356,"endTime":2767.29,"body":"struggled with in the past that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2767.29,"endTime":2769.17,"body":"way Maybe we don't appreciate"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2769.27,"endTime":2769.76,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2769.778,"endTime":2772.616,"body":"when you mentioned lasers, Yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2773.076,"endTime":2777.4,"body":"there, are, many ways"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2773.076,"endTime":2777.4,"body":"of the combustion."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2777.4,"endTime":2780.96,"body":"People have learned how to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2777.4,"endTime":2780.96,"body":"measure things in flames,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2781.29,"endTime":2781.66,"body":"Inside?\\"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2782.34,"endTime":2786.99,"body":"The inside flames, even look"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2782.34,"endTime":2786.99,"body":"at, uh, The temperature at"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2786.99,"endTime":2788.43,"body":"points and things like that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2788.48,"endTime":2794.163,"body":"So there, there are many type"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2788.48,"endTime":2794.163,"body":"diagnostic techniques that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2794.163,"endTime":2799.23,"body":"allow you to see things in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2794.163,"endTime":2799.23,"body":"flames probably people should"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2799.23,"endTime":2801.513,"body":"start applying to fire you,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2801.513,"endTime":2803.073,"body":"you,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2801.513,"endTime":2803.073,"body":"you have mentioned research"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2803.073,"endTime":2807.283,"body":"like, Prahl and Emmons uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2803.073,"endTime":2807.283,"body":"flows through openings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.453,"endTime":2809.643,"body":"Uh, that, that's actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.453,"endTime":2809.643,"body":"one of my favorite"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2810.003,"endTime":2811.803,"body":"research pieces from 1975."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2811.803,"endTime":2812.403,"body":"Amazing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2812.543,"endTime":2815.663,"body":"piece and fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2812.543,"endTime":2815.663,"body":"piece of research for, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2815.663,"endTime":2816.783,"body":"practical, for engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2817.053,"endTime":2817.543,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2818.453,"endTime":2818.943,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2819.296,"endTime":2820.096,"body":"saltwater."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2820.416,"endTime":2823.296,"body":"and again, with, with"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2820.416,"endTime":2823.296,"body":"Steckler, we looked at"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2823.296,"endTime":2827.445,"body":"saltwater, work, later on  In"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2823.296,"endTime":2827.445,"body":"fact, my colleague Andre"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2828.079,"endTime":2831.978,"body":"uh, at Maryland when he"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2828.079,"endTime":2831.978,"body":"joined Maryland, he got"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2831.978,"endTime":2835.898,"body":"the salt water tank that I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2831.978,"endTime":2835.898,"body":"salvaged from this cause they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2835.898,"endTime":2837.058,"body":"were gonna throw it away."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2837.958,"endTime":2841.617,"body":"And, he did very fundamental"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2837.958,"endTime":2841.617,"body":"work and he did work on,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2841.675,"endTime":2845.107,"body":"ceiling jets in which he"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2841.675,"endTime":2845.107,"body":"did it with salt water."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2845.564,"endTime":2851.213,"body":"And he measured the velocity"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2845.564,"endTime":2851.213,"body":"and, salt concentration so he"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2851.213,"endTime":2852.613,"body":"could relate it to temperature."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2853.073,"endTime":2857.69,"body":"And that work is quite unique,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2853.073,"endTime":2857.69,"body":"and advanced for its time."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2858.69,"endTime":2861.208,"body":"But, it was never, extended."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2861.594,"endTime":2862.994,"body":"look look at what."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2863.867,"endTime":2867.187,"body":"Marshall did with salt"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2863.867,"endTime":2867.187,"body":"water on ceiling jets."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2867.377,"endTime":2872.25,"body":"And that was, that was like an"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2867.377,"endTime":2872.25,"body":"extension of all of this work"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2872.25,"endTime":2874.29,"body":"from the seventies and eighties."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2874.79,"endTime":2877.37,"body":"And someone like Andre"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2874.79,"endTime":2877.37,"body":"Marshall when he came to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2877.61,"endTime":2879.13,"body":"Maryland appreciated that."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2879.58,"endTime":2883.657,"body":"That's why I think the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2879.58,"endTime":2883.657,"body":"Chinese are going to get"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2883.727,"endTime":2890.991,"body":"into it, because I see"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2883.727,"endTime":2890.991,"body":"papers by young Chinese I"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2890.991,"endTime":2894.031,"body":"see that they're reading the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2890.991,"endTime":2894.031,"body":"literature very carefully."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2894.411,"endTime":2897.791,"body":"Now, whether they're supervisor"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2894.411,"endTime":2897.791,"body":"is forcing them to do this"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2898.711,"endTime":2902.44,"body":"they're doing it based on"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2898.711,"endTime":2902.44,"body":"their own, kind of motivation"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2902.78,"endTime":2907.96,"body":"and the resources that exist"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2902.78,"endTime":2907.96,"body":"around them at U S T C, they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2907.96,"endTime":2913.18,"body":"seem to have a respect and an"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2907.96,"endTime":2913.18,"body":"embracement of, of that work."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2913.548,"endTime":2917.989,"body":"if they have that and they carry"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2913.548,"endTime":2917.989,"body":"it forward, I see that there's,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2917.999,"endTime":2922.605,"body":"there's a, a linkage there"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2917.999,"endTime":2922.605,"body":"that improve, fire research"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2922.605,"endTime":2924.005,"body":"through the work in China."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2924.344,"endTime":2927.184,"body":"I hope we don't go to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2924.344,"endTime":2927.184,"body":"war before that time."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2927.974,"endTime":2928.724,"body":"Uh, please"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2929.084,"endTime":2930.884,"body":"don't, don't enough"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2930.884,"endTime":2933.204,"body":"politics  in, in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2933.204,"endTime":2935.044,"body":"I hope that's not the case ever."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2935.374,"endTime":2937.844,"body":"Uh, where, where is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2935.374,"endTime":2937.844,"body":"horrible, what I've meant"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2937.844,"endTime":2939.004,"body":"when I started this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2939.004,"endTime":2939.844,"body":"Is this with the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":2939.874,"endTime":2940.994,"body":"to study history."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2941.144,"endTime":2941.654,"body":"Of course."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2942.336,"endTime":2945.513,"body":"but, uh, I, I think there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech 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simple equation?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3093.674,"endTime":3097.824,"body":"Or do we have to resort"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3093.674,"endTime":3097.824,"body":"to CFD every time we"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3097.824,"endTime":3098.864,"body":"wanna learn something?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3099.155,"endTime":3101.424,"body":"those steps never"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3099.155,"endTime":3101.424,"body":"were taken anymore."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3102.054,"endTime":3104.744,"body":"I, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3102.054,"endTime":3104.744,"body":"hope there are a lot of young"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3105.184,"endTime":3109.784,"body":"researchers listening who, who,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3105.184,"endTime":3109.784,"body":"who, who seek their careers."},{"speaker":"James 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fantastic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3137.599,"endTime":3140.572,"body":"Was byproduct of, like you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3137.599,"endTime":3140.572,"body":"said, the the fines they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3140.572,"endTime":3140.812,"body":"got."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3140.852,"endTime":3146.152,"body":"the use of plastics, uh, was"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3140.852,"endTime":3146.152,"body":"a technological change in the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3146.152,"endTime":3150.522,"body":"way we live that, enabled fire"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3146.152,"endTime":3150.522,"body":"to develop in different ways."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3151.312,"endTime":3156.846,"body":"A and so, that was the, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3151.312,"endTime":3156.846,"body":"spark really like batteries"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3157.266,"endTime":3161.929,"body":"are now the, the spark that are"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3157.266,"endTime":3161.929,"body":"saying, you know, we should do"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3161.929,"endTime":3163.769,"body":"more fire research in batteries."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3164.689,"endTime":3167.119,"body":"So there, there will"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3164.689,"endTime":3167.119,"body":"always be new technologies"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3167.119,"endTime":3168.079,"body":"that come about."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3168.349,"endTime":3171.359,"body":"that will, you know, maybe"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3168.349,"endTime":3171.359,"body":"people will invent fusion"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3172.006,"endTime":3172.846,"body":"with those high"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3172.846,"endTime":3174.966,"body":"temperatures, there"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3172.846,"endTime":3174.966,"body":"will be a lot of fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3175.386,"endTime":3176.146,"body":"We'll see."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3176.766,"endTime":3179.946,"body":"The one thing I've learned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3176.766,"endTime":3179.946,"body":"after two years of doing this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3179.946,"endTime":3183.986,"body":"podcast, we create issues in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3179.946,"endTime":3183.986,"body":"fire quicker than, uh, than"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3183.986,"endTime":3186.546,"body":"we generate solutions and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3183.986,"endTime":3186.546,"body":"people to who can solve them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3186.546,"endTime":3188.786,"body":"So we are not gonna get"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3186.546,"endTime":3188.786,"body":"out of job anywhere soon."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3189.156,"endTime":3191.546,"body":"No, the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3189.156,"endTime":3191.546,"body":"people in combustion may lose"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3191.546,"endTime":3195.486,"body":"their jobs, but the people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3191.546,"endTime":3195.486,"body":"in fire will not because, and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3195.486,"endTime":3199.812,"body":"as I said, as investigators,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3195.486,"endTime":3199.812,"body":"uh, embrace this and the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3199.812,"endTime":3201.56,"body":"fire service embraces it,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3201.732,"endTime":3203.252,"body":"fire research should grow."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3203.286,"endTime":3203.91,"body":"Beautiful."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3203.936,"endTime":3207.696,"body":"let's end this, uh, episode with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3203.936,"endTime":3207.696,"body":"this, uh, with this thought."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3207.916,"endTime":3210.599,"body":"May maybe one more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3207.916,"endTime":3210.599,"body":"thing I'll, I'll maybe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3210.599,"endTime":3211.719,"body":"publish it separately."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3211.719,"endTime":3214.249,"body":"Like if you had a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3211.719,"endTime":3214.249,"body":"message to young people."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3214.974,"endTime":3216.464,"body":"Just coming into fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3216.464,"endTime":3219.704,"body":"There's so many young people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3216.464,"endTime":3219.704,"body":"coming into fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3219.704,"endTime":3220.864,"body":"more than ever before."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3221.274,"endTime":3225.474,"body":"So many faculties open,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3221.274,"endTime":3225.474,"body":"so many good places to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3225.474,"endTime":3226.994,"body":"pursue career in fire."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3227.427,"endTime":3231.117,"body":"Well, it's"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3227.427,"endTime":3231.117,"body":"a stimulating field and it's"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3231.117,"endTime":3236.287,"body":"a field that is rich in un"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3231.117,"endTime":3236.287,"body":"discovery, so you can do"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3236.287,"endTime":3237.887,"body":"a lot to contribute to it."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3238.347,"endTime":3242.994,"body":"But the reality is, is that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3238.347,"endTime":3242.994,"body":"I think a lot of young people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3242.994,"endTime":3247.761,"body":"have graduated through fire"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3242.994,"endTime":3247.761,"body":"research curriculum, but"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3247.761,"endTime":3251.444,"body":"they don't stay in the field"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3247.761,"endTime":3251.444,"body":"the field is not embracing."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3252.641,"endTime":3252.921,"body":"a shame."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3253.046,"endTime":3257.392,"body":"If you, if you ask how many fire"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3253.046,"endTime":3257.392,"body":"protection engineering firms"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3257.462,"endTime":3263.056,"body":"hire fire scientists or people"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3257.462,"endTime":3263.056,"body":"who did a, a, maybe a somewhat"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3263.206,"endTime":3267.459,"body":"arcane to them research topic"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3263.206,"endTime":3267.459,"body":"in fire, they won't be the"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3267.459,"endTime":3269.139,"body":"first on their list to hire."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3269.537,"endTime":3269.623,"body":"Hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3269.909,"endTime":3274.459,"body":"So, the field is not"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3269.909,"endTime":3274.459,"body":"in need of science."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3274.872,"endTime":3278.012,"body":"The field is in need of"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3274.872,"endTime":3278.012,"body":"tools to how to solve"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3278.012,"endTime":3278.572,"body":"problems."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3278.751,"endTime":3280.641,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3278.751,"endTime":3280.641,"body":"we can use scientists"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3280.641,"endTime":3280.841,"body":"to,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3281.042,"endTime":3281.462,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3281.482,"endTime":3284.279,"body":"And the way that works is"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3281.482,"endTime":3284.279,"body":"like, you know, if somebody"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3284.279,"endTime":3288.379,"body":"says, let's go to the moon and"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3284.279,"endTime":3288.379,"body":"people throw money on that,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3288.409,"endTime":3291.299,"body":"then, then you figure out"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3288.409,"endTime":3291.299,"body":"how to get off this planet."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3291.759,"endTime":3294.659,"body":"But as soon as somebody"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3291.759,"endTime":3294.659,"body":"says, who cares about the."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3295.239,"endTime":3296.159,"body":"you see what happens?"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3296.234,"endTime":3296.844,"body":"mm-hmm."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3297.149,"endTime":3298.919,"body":"fire is in that vein."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3299.179,"endTime":3300.899,"body":"it's a drag on the economy."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3301.089,"endTime":3303.139,"body":"It's not a promotion of economy."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3303.849,"endTime":3308.199,"body":"so it's not like inventing a new"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3303.849,"endTime":3308.199,"body":"thing and everything takes off."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3308.199,"endTime":3314.276,"body":"And, and now, now you, you have"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3308.199,"endTime":3314.276,"body":"Silicon Valley, fire degrades"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3314.626,"endTime":3317.436,"body":"from, a commerce and economics."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3317.638,"endTime":3318.506,"body":"It's a drag."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3318.956,"endTime":3319.676,"body":"it's a loss."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3319.826,"endTime":3323.402,"body":"But that's why I said if"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3319.826,"endTime":3323.402,"body":"the fire, service community,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3323.422,"endTime":3327.256,"body":"the firefighters wake up"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3323.422,"endTime":3327.256,"body":"say we need better tools"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3327.642,"endTime":3329.162,"body":"That is, need science."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3329.609,"endTime":3330.809,"body":"that may be the savior."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3331.514,"endTime":3336.594,"body":"Lund is the only program that"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3331.514,"endTime":3336.594,"body":"realizes this, that educates"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3336.594,"endTime":3339.554,"body":"their people and then they"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3336.594,"endTime":3339.554,"body":"go into the fire service."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3340.187,"endTime":3343.273,"body":"So that is one seed"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3340.187,"endTime":3343.273,"body":"that I haven't seen Grow"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3343.701,"endTime":3344.711,"body":"beyond Lund"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3344.949,"endTime":3347.329,"body":"Now"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3344.949,"endTime":3347.329,"body":"I, I, I see James, I see."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3347.349,"endTime":3349.189,"body":"See some promising seeds."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3349.719,"endTime":3352.989,"body":"Uh, fire, fire Safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3349.719,"endTime":3352.989,"body":"Research Institute, ul,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3353.099,"endTime":3355.269,"body":"this, I, I really believe,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3355.564,"endTime":3358.106,"body":"I, know,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3355.564,"endTime":3358.106,"body":"I commend those guys I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3358.896,"endTime":3359.186,"body":"I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3359.186,"endTime":3362.506,"body":"really believe this will,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3359.186,"endTime":3362.506,"body":"this, this is a thing and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3362.826,"endTime":3366.636,"body":"let's well, I hope that your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3362.826,"endTime":3366.636,"body":"prediction that, uh, the golden"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3366.636,"endTime":3368.196,"body":"era is still in front of us."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3368.24,"endTime":3368.861,"body":"it's there."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3368.931,"endTime":3373.774,"body":"I mean, look, it took Hottel"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3368.931,"endTime":3373.774,"body":"and Emmons a long time to get,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3373.777,"endTime":3379.657,"body":"you know, some activity going in"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3373.777,"endTime":3379.657,"body":"fire, so, It's there, is always"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3379.657,"endTime":3381.417,"body":"going to exist on this planet."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3381.801,"endTime":3385.171,"body":"And the as the need to"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3381.801,"endTime":3385.171,"body":"understand it grows,"},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3385.271,"endTime":3386.531,"body":"the science will grow."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3386.626,"endTime":3387.426,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"James Quintiere","startTime":3387.584,"endTime":3388.699,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3389.176,"endTime":3389.746,"body":"And that's it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3389.776,"endTime":3392.266,"body":"This concludes the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3389.776,"endTime":3392.266,"body":"interview I had with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3392.266,"endTime":3393.536,"body":"professor James Quintiere."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3393.946,"endTime":3396.466,"body":"I'm really thankful to James"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3393.946,"endTime":3396.466,"body":"for spending so much time"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3396.466,"endTime":3400.696,"body":"with me and sharing so much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3396.466,"endTime":3400.696,"body":"of his thoughts about the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3401.206,"endTime":3404.656,"body":"us fire science, how it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3401.206,"endTime":3404.656,"body":"developed, how it grown."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3405.263,"endTime":3408.563,"body":"How it changed over the years"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3405.263,"endTime":3408.563,"body":"and maybe some inspiration"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3408.563,"endTime":3411.641,"body":"in How we can go back to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3408.563,"endTime":3411.641,"body":"the glorious times of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3411.711,"endTime":3413.301,"body":"fire science research."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3413.485,"endTime":3416.245,"body":"In today's episode, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3413.485,"endTime":3416.245,"body":"a lot about how the experiments"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3416.245,"endTime":3420.265,"body":"were carried and I think a good"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3416.245,"endTime":3420.265,"body":"message to everyone listening."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3420.265,"endTime":3422.005,"body":"The researchers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3420.265,"endTime":3422.005,"body":"listening is that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3422.395,"endTime":3424.045,"body":"Many of those experiments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3424.585,"endTime":3426.175,"body":"Are done in Hades."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3426.535,"endTime":3430.135,"body":"Like 40 years ago and they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3426.535,"endTime":3430.135,"body":"are still this stable."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3430.331,"endTime":3433.421,"body":"Cases for validating our models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3433.781,"endTime":3435.281,"body":"It's it's astonishing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3435.401,"endTime":3439.301,"body":"What long lasting impact you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3435.401,"endTime":3439.301,"body":"can achieve with carefully"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3439.301,"endTime":3440.891,"body":"planned experiments and."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3441.038,"endTime":3443.258,"body":"Really well thought"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3441.038,"endTime":3443.258,"body":"out fire science."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3443.588,"endTime":3446.018,"body":"It's a statement that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3443.588,"endTime":3446.018,"body":"very contradictory to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3446.018,"endTime":3450.698,"body":"the modern science, where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3446.018,"endTime":3450.698,"body":"you're pushed to get papers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3450.698,"endTime":3453.998,"body":"published quickly, publish"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3450.698,"endTime":3453.998,"body":"as many as you can, hopefully"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3453.998,"endTime":3455.378,"body":"with high impact factors."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3455.948,"endTime":3459.368,"body":"Look, this is like the exact"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3455.948,"endTime":3459.368,"body":"opposite end of spectrum."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3459.398,"endTime":3462.518,"body":"Doing a very carefully planned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3459.398,"endTime":3462.518,"body":"experiment, maybe taking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3462.518,"endTime":3464.318,"body":"a year or two, doing that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3464.378,"endTime":3465.908,"body":"Publishing a single paper."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3465.941,"endTime":3467.861,"body":"Which still 40 years later."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3468.221,"endTime":3469.481,"body":"It's a basis of models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3469.481,"endTime":3470.441,"body":"How amazing is that?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3470.801,"endTime":3472.721,"body":"If I had to choose."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3473.051,"endTime":3475.721,"body":"Between writing a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3473.051,"endTime":3475.721,"body":"really, really good."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3475.728,"endTime":3479.928,"body":"paper that we'll continue making"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3475.728,"endTime":3479.928,"body":"impact in few decades and, and."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3480.045,"endTime":3481.845,"body":"popping Salemi"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3480.045,"endTime":3481.845,"body":"slices of research."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3481.845,"endTime":3485.338,"body":"I, I would highly recommend"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3481.845,"endTime":3485.338,"body":"doing the former, I guess"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3485.338,"endTime":3488.485,"body":"this is something we try"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3485.338,"endTime":3488.485,"body":"with our fire science."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3488.545,"endTime":3489.085,"body":"The ITB."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3489.475,"endTime":3491.905,"body":"I'm not sure if we always"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3489.475,"endTime":3491.905,"body":"accomplish that, we'll see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3491.905,"endTime":3494.205,"body":"in a few decades, but, Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3491.905,"endTime":3494.205,"body":"that's, that's something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3494.205,"endTime":3495.885,"body":"I aspire to and I highly."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3495.998,"endTime":3499.298,"body":"Recommend that to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3495.998,"endTime":3499.298,"body":"any academic around."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3499.298,"endTime":3502.301,"body":"And I hope this interview"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3499.298,"endTime":3502.301,"body":"with James, Can serve"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3502.301,"endTime":3504.701,"body":"as an inspiration on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3502.301,"endTime":3504.701,"body":"how to achieve that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3505.481,"endTime":3508.481,"body":"Thank you very much for tuning"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3505.481,"endTime":3508.481,"body":"into the fire science show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3508.811,"endTime":3511.781,"body":"And there's more great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3508.811,"endTime":3511.781,"body":"episodes coming your way."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Węgrzyński","startTime":3511.781,"endTime":3514.381,"body":"So see here next Wednesday bye!."}]}