{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":0.27,"endTime":2.31,"body":"When you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":0.27,"endTime":2.31,"body":"studied fire safety engineering,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2.58,"endTime":6.21,"body":"or maybe when you joined your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2.58,"endTime":6.21,"body":"first consultancy company and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":6.84,"endTime":11.49,"body":"was trained to work on fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":6.84,"endTime":11.49,"body":"safety engineering projects, at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":11.49,"endTime":14.43,"body":"some point you most likely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":11.49,"endTime":14.43,"body":"encounter the thing that we call"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":14.43,"endTime":18.21,"body":"the tenability criteria. The"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":14.43,"endTime":18.21,"body":"tenability criteria are the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":18.21,"endTime":22.62,"body":"conditions in the building or a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":18.21,"endTime":22.62,"body":"part of a building, that if they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":22.62,"endTime":27.12,"body":"are reached, it means that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":22.62,"endTime":27.12,"body":"building became untenable. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":27.12,"endTime":31.65,"body":"that means that the building is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":27.12,"endTime":31.65,"body":"not safe anymore. It's a very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":31.89,"endTime":36.96,"body":"profound concept in fire safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":31.89,"endTime":36.96,"body":"engineering to use this values"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":36.96,"endTime":41.49,"body":"to define when the safety ends"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":36.96,"endTime":41.49,"body":"in the building. And in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":41.49,"endTime":44.85,"body":"consequence, most of the design"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":41.49,"endTime":44.85,"body":"of safety features in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":44.85,"endTime":49.32,"body":"building such as smoke control,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":44.85,"endTime":49.32,"body":"for example, is driven by this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":49.32,"endTime":54.72,"body":"need to provide the safety for a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":49.32,"endTime":54.72,"body":"certain amount of time. Because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":54.72,"endTime":57.78,"body":"the tenability criteria are so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":54.72,"endTime":57.78,"body":"profound for our buildings and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":57.81,"endTime":63.9,"body":"safety in them, we tend to study"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":57.81,"endTime":63.9,"body":"them in depth. And this is why I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":63.9,"endTime":67.65,"body":"brought today my my second guest"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":63.9,"endTime":67.65,"body":"to the podcast, Dr. Gabriela"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":67.65,"endTime":72.99,"body":"Vigne from JVVA in Spain, who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":67.65,"endTime":72.99,"body":"happens to be a researcher and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":72.99,"endTime":77.97,"body":"an engineer interested in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":72.99,"endTime":77.97,"body":"tenability criteria from both"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":77.97,"endTime":81.6,"body":"the scientific and practical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":77.97,"endTime":81.6,"body":"perspective. Together with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":81.6,"endTime":85.47,"body":"Gabrielle, we have a history of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":81.6,"endTime":85.47,"body":"research on visibility in smoke."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":86.01,"endTime":91.5,"body":"And now we've opened the new"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":86.01,"endTime":91.5,"body":"chapter. We've just finished a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":91.5,"endTime":95.28,"body":"survey international survey on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":91.5,"endTime":95.28,"body":"the use of tenability criteria"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":95.85,"endTime":101.79,"body":"in fire engineering, which was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":95.85,"endTime":101.79,"body":"attended by 250 engineers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":101.79,"endTime":105.66,"body":"worldwide, which we're very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":101.79,"endTime":105.66,"body":"happy with. And in this episode,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":105.99,"endTime":109.56,"body":"we're gonna dive deep into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":105.99,"endTime":109.56,"body":"results of the survey will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":109.56,"endTime":114.0,"body":"discuss what surprised us in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":109.56,"endTime":114.0,"body":"survey What did not surprise us,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":114.51,"endTime":119.13,"body":"we will then jump into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":114.51,"endTime":119.13,"body":"visibility in smoke, which is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":119.13,"endTime":124.14,"body":"something we share the passion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":119.13,"endTime":124.14,"body":"about. And in the end, I'll I'll"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":124.17,"endTime":127.44,"body":"explain Gabriele some of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":124.17,"endTime":127.44,"body":"newest research from my group,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":127.83,"endTime":132.66,"body":"that that lays a new light on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":127.83,"endTime":132.66,"body":"how we perceive the visibility"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":132.66,"endTime":137.19,"body":"in smoke. So whatever is your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":132.66,"endTime":137.19,"body":"role in fire safety engineering,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":137.97,"endTime":141.36,"body":"you're definitely gonna enjoy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":137.97,"endTime":141.36,"body":"this one and I hope it will be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":141.36,"endTime":145.26,"body":"very beneficial for you. I hope"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":141.36,"endTime":145.26,"body":"the perspectives given are very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":145.26,"endTime":151.2,"body":"wide and will help you see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":145.26,"endTime":151.2,"body":"things in a new light. I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":151.23,"endTime":154.68,"body":"absolutely sure you will enjoy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":151.23,"endTime":154.68,"body":"it. So without further do, let's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":154.68,"endTime":156.66,"body":"spin the intro and jump into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":154.68,"endTime":156.66,"body":"interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":158.34,"endTime":162.99,"body":"Welcome to the fire science"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":158.34,"endTime":162.99,"body":"show. My name is Wojciech"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":164.76,"endTime":167.16,"body":"Wegrzynski and I will be your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":164.76,"endTime":167.16,"body":"host."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":188.75,"endTime":193.13,"body":"Hello, everyone."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":188.75,"endTime":193.13,"body":"Today I'm hosting my good friend"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":193.13,"endTime":198.83,"body":"Gabrielle Veen from GVA fire and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":193.13,"endTime":198.83,"body":"risk consultancy, and Gabrielle"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":198.83,"endTime":203.48,"body":"is an engineer and researcher."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":198.83,"endTime":203.48,"body":"And I'm more than happy to have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":203.48,"endTime":206.72,"body":"you here. Gabrielle. Hey,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":203.48,"endTime":206.72,"body":"Wojciech. It's a pleasure to be"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":206.72,"endTime":208.7,"body":"here in this fantastic podcast."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":206.72,"endTime":208.7,"body":"+"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":208.88,"endTime":212.39,"body":"We'll see."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":208.88,"endTime":212.39,"body":"We'll see. I hope it is. So I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":212.39,"endTime":216.62,"body":"broke up real here. Because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":212.39,"endTime":216.62,"body":"together we have a history of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":216.65,"endTime":220.58,"body":"cooperation on some interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":216.65,"endTime":220.58,"body":"topics. And since we are both"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":220.58,"endTime":224.78,"body":"engineers, and we both deal with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":220.58,"endTime":224.78,"body":"design of smoke control systems"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":224.78,"endTime":229.94,"body":"and and all this stuff related"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":224.78,"endTime":229.94,"body":"to making building safer for the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":229.94,"endTime":236.06,"body":"life of humans. We've both met"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":229.94,"endTime":236.06,"body":"the same problems with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":236.18,"endTime":238.37,"body":"tenability conditions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":236.18,"endTime":238.37,"body":"Gabrielle."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":239.03,"endTime":243.47,"body":"Yeah, well, when"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":239.03,"endTime":243.47,"body":"we start with that, we identify"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":243.47,"endTime":248.9,"body":"this visibility as one of the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":243.47,"endTime":248.9,"body":"main, the main issue and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":248.93,"endTime":251.54,"body":"anything to study more, more"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":248.93,"endTime":251.54,"body":"deeply."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":251.96,"endTime":254.0,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":251.96,"endTime":254.0,"body":"visibility is the culprit of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":254.03,"endTime":258.77,"body":"engineering because it's, at the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":254.03,"endTime":258.77,"body":"same time, extremely easy to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":258.8,"endTime":262.46,"body":"explain to anyone...you can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":258.8,"endTime":262.46,"body":"explain the concept of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":262.46,"endTime":265.7,"body":"visibility in smoke to your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":262.46,"endTime":265.7,"body":"grandmother. I mean, you can see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":265.7,"endTime":270.95,"body":"for a given distance, that's it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":265.7,"endTime":270.95,"body":"And yet to capture the value of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":270.95,"endTime":274.85,"body":"that parameter in Europe, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":270.95,"endTime":274.85,"body":"high fidelity engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":274.85,"endTime":279.86,"body":"analysis is is really really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":274.85,"endTime":279.86,"body":"painful task. So for for this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":279.86,"endTime":285.11,"body":"purpose to learn how we use"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":279.86,"endTime":285.11,"body":"tenability criteria and to learn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":285.44,"endTime":291.17,"body":"what is driving the design of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":285.44,"endTime":291.17,"body":"buildings in in today's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":291.17,"endTime":295.25,"body":"engineering world. We joined our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":291.17,"endTime":295.25,"body":"forces with with some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":295.25,"endTime":300.05,"body":"researchers with Professor Lukas"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":295.25,"endTime":300.05,"body":"Arnold from University of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":300.05,"endTime":305.6,"body":"Wuppertal, with Dr. Wolfram Jahn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":300.05,"endTime":305.6,"body":"from Chile and our colleague"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":305.63,"endTime":311.21,"body":"Mateusz Zimny. And we've started"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":305.63,"endTime":311.21,"body":"a really interesting project"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":311.21,"endTime":314.27,"body":"that teniability criteria"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":311.21,"endTime":314.27,"body":"survey. Gabrielle, can you tell"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":314.27,"endTime":316.34,"body":"us a bit more about the survey?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":317.15,"endTime":321.05,"body":"Yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":317.15,"endTime":321.05,"body":"actually, we start this survey"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":321.08,"endTime":327.35,"body":"to understand worldwide how"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":321.08,"endTime":327.35,"body":"people use this tenability idea"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":327.38,"endTime":331.55,"body":"in safety, fire modeling. And"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":327.38,"endTime":331.55,"body":"actually, it's so easy now"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":331.58,"endTime":336.02,"body":"nowadays, to make a survey and,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":331.58,"endTime":336.02,"body":"you know, collect information"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":336.02,"endTime":341.39,"body":"from all parts of the world."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":336.02,"endTime":341.39,"body":"This was just, you know, posted"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":341.39,"endTime":346.28,"body":"in the in Twitter in, in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":341.39,"endTime":346.28,"body":"LinkedIn, we didn't even send"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":346.88,"endTime":350.96,"body":"messages to people and it spread"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":346.88,"endTime":350.96,"body":"all over the world! And then"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":350.96,"endTime":356.3,"body":"there was a bit of a run and the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":350.96,"endTime":356.3,"body":"competition between countries as"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":356.3,"endTime":361.04,"body":"well, because when we post this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":356.3,"endTime":361.04,"body":"graph and saying a look, you are"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":361.04,"endTime":366.83,"body":"pretty low in in the result,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":361.04,"endTime":366.83,"body":"some French people posting"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":367.34,"endTime":368.75,"body":"that...\"Hey, come on... man\","},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":369.65,"endTime":371.57,"body":"that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":369.65,"endTime":371.57,"body":"explains the high number of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":371.57,"endTime":372.68,"body":"French participants."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":373.17,"endTime":375.27,"body":"exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":373.17,"endTime":375.27,"body":"that was fantastic. Absolutely"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":375.27,"endTime":381.18,"body":"great. Absolutely great. I think"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":375.27,"endTime":381.18,"body":"it was a great success. And I am"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":381.18,"endTime":388.92,"body":"preparing right now, but I will"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":381.18,"endTime":388.92,"body":"be giving classes to the the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":388.95,"endTime":393.09,"body":"municipality of Madrid to that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":388.95,"endTime":393.09,"body":"technician about equation"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":393.09,"endTime":398.55,"body":"modeling, and will be focused on"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":393.09,"endTime":398.55,"body":"Petfinder action. But there is a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":398.55,"endTime":402.27,"body":"strong introduction about the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":398.55,"endTime":402.27,"body":"human behavior and, and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":402.33,"endTime":406.65,"body":"evaluation modeling itself. And"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":402.33,"endTime":406.65,"body":"I use the lot the information"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":406.65,"endTime":413.7,"body":"from the survey that Ronchi and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":406.65,"endTime":413.7,"body":"Loverglio did for evacuation"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":413.7,"endTime":418.26,"body":"modeling. Why that? Because"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":413.7,"endTime":418.26,"body":"Because what when you have a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":418.26,"endTime":425.73,"body":"benchmark of how the model is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":418.26,"endTime":425.73,"body":"used all over the world, etc,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":425.73,"endTime":431.82,"body":"etc. And so many questions in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":425.73,"endTime":431.82,"body":"it, you really have an overview"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":431.82,"endTime":437.34,"body":"and you understand how those"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":431.82,"endTime":437.34,"body":"models are used. So I, I really"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":437.34,"endTime":442.47,"body":"think these survey will highly"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":437.34,"endTime":442.47,"body":"contribute to this field."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":443.41,"endTime":446.92,"body":"Yeah, my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":443.41,"endTime":446.92,"body":"goal was to ask two or three"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":446.92,"endTime":452.59,"body":"very, very particular questions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":446.92,"endTime":452.59,"body":"And to get an honest answer to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":452.59,"endTime":458.35,"body":"them. I've hidden them beyond"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":452.59,"endTime":458.35,"body":"the wall of of many, many other"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":458.35,"endTime":461.98,"body":"questions. So so people are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":458.35,"endTime":461.98,"body":"getting are more comfortable"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":462.01,"endTime":465.46,"body":"answering and and clicking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":462.01,"endTime":465.46,"body":"through. But you know what, I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":465.46,"endTime":468.46,"body":"really surprised because the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":465.46,"endTime":468.46,"body":"data gathered like for almost"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":468.46,"endTime":472.51,"body":"every single question we got is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":468.46,"endTime":472.51,"body":"astounding. And it's like I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":472.51,"endTime":478.33,"body":"mentioned before, full of golden"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":472.51,"endTime":478.33,"body":"nuggets in there went from here,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":478.33,"endTime":481.66,"body":"I would like to really thank"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":478.33,"endTime":481.66,"body":"every single person who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":481.66,"endTime":486.46,"body":"participated in the survey,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":481.66,"endTime":486.46,"body":"it's, it's worth a lot to us to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":486.49,"endTime":490.45,"body":"have your opinion on how the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":486.49,"endTime":490.45,"body":"tenability criteria are used."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":490.48,"endTime":495.43,"body":"And also huge thanks to everyone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":490.48,"endTime":495.43,"body":"who helped us organically spread"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":495.43,"endTime":501.01,"body":"the information about the survey"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":495.43,"endTime":501.01,"body":"through the internet. So I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":501.52,"endTime":506.8,"body":"looking now at the participation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":501.52,"endTime":506.8,"body":"chart, it seems we had 252"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":506.8,"endTime":509.74,"body":"participants, that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":506.8,"endTime":509.74,"body":"amazing. That's a quarter of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":509.77,"endTime":515.65,"body":"1000s of people. And most of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":509.77,"endTime":515.65,"body":"them are engineers, like 81% are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":515.68,"endTime":521.2,"body":"engineers who actually do fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":515.68,"endTime":521.2,"body":"modeling. So that's, that's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":521.2,"endTime":522.64,"body":"pretty decent representation."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":523.65,"endTime":525.96,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":523.65,"endTime":525.96,"body":"absolutely. And I think it's the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":525.96,"endTime":531.6,"body":"right representation. I like"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":525.96,"endTime":531.6,"body":"this, this answer...Because Can"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":531.6,"endTime":537.03,"body":"you imagine this 81% if it was a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":531.6,"endTime":537.03,"body":"researcher, or lecture, we want"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":537.12,"endTime":541.26,"body":"and I think the good thing here"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":537.12,"endTime":541.26,"body":"is that we are both engineer,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":542.28,"endTime":547.83,"body":"you are more on the scientific"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":542.28,"endTime":547.83,"body":"and research path now. But we"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":547.83,"endTime":553.11,"body":"know that what we are studying"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":547.83,"endTime":553.11,"body":"and that was the intent, for"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":553.11,"endTime":557.91,"body":"example of all my research, to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":553.11,"endTime":557.91,"body":"contribute to my profession, not"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":557.91,"endTime":562.68,"body":"just to study something,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":557.91,"endTime":562.68,"body":"because, you know, I want to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":562.89,"endTime":568.41,"body":"expand the Bougher-Lambert-Beer"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":562.89,"endTime":568.41,"body":"equation better. Okay, I want"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":568.41,"endTime":573.12,"body":"the results that can be applied"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":568.41,"endTime":573.12,"body":"tomorrow into our, our field."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":573.75,"endTime":575.91,"body":"And that's a key key thing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":575.0,"endTime":578.15,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":575.0,"endTime":578.15,"body":"fascinating what you say that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":578.15,"endTime":583.31,"body":"because I think my path of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":578.15,"endTime":583.31,"body":"career was very similar. I was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":584.3,"endTime":589.13,"body":"bottom level CFD engineer, a guy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":584.3,"endTime":589.13,"body":"who was doing a model and and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":589.13,"endTime":592.49,"body":"starting the calculations and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":589.13,"endTime":592.49,"body":"then printing pretty plots out"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":592.49,"endTime":596.12,"body":"of that. And at some point I've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":592.49,"endTime":596.12,"body":"started questioning, like the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":596.12,"endTime":599.69,"body":"outcomes or the choices are the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":596.12,"endTime":599.69,"body":"reasons why we do stuff like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":599.72,"endTime":604.01,"body":"like We do and and that pushed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":599.72,"endTime":604.01,"body":"me into the researcher career"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":604.01,"endTime":609.71,"body":"where I seek answers for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":604.01,"endTime":609.71,"body":"questions that were unanswered"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":609.71,"endTime":612.89,"body":"when I was doing the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":609.71,"endTime":612.89,"body":"engineering. So I always say"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":612.89,"endTime":616.7,"body":"it's selfish science because I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":612.89,"endTime":616.7,"body":"I do science for myself, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":616.7,"endTime":622.28,"body":"touched problems that bother me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":616.7,"endTime":622.28,"body":"And I think that it makes the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":622.28,"endTime":626.27,"body":"science very useful. Here to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":622.28,"endTime":626.27,"body":"close the participation chart, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":626.27,"endTime":630.53,"body":"must mention the top three"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":626.27,"endTime":630.53,"body":"participating countries. And it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":630.53,"endTime":635.54,"body":"seems number one was UK. Number"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":630.53,"endTime":635.54,"body":"two was Poland. Good job, guys."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":635.84,"endTime":641.48,"body":"And number three was Germany. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":635.84,"endTime":641.48,"body":"yeah, very strong European"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":641.84,"endTime":645.08,"body":"representation in the survey."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":641.84,"endTime":645.08,"body":"But we also had participants"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":645.08,"endTime":650.12,"body":"from Iran, Australia, New"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":645.08,"endTime":650.12,"body":"Zealand, Chile. Many from USA."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":650.12,"endTime":653.09,"body":"So it's definitely a global"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":650.12,"endTime":653.09,"body":"global survey."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":653.21,"endTime":656.51,"body":"Yeah. And to be"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":653.21,"endTime":656.51,"body":"honest, if you have a two the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":656.51,"endTime":661.1,"body":"three people honestly, in the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":656.51,"endTime":661.1,"body":"same countries, you have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":661.1,"endTime":669.2,"body":"already, you know, an answer of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":661.1,"endTime":669.2,"body":"on how that criteria or many"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":669.2,"endTime":673.73,"body":"other answers apply to that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":669.2,"endTime":673.73,"body":"country. So the result is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":673.79,"endTime":674.72,"body":"absolutely great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":675.77,"endTime":678.92,"body":"We, we also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":675.77,"endTime":678.92,"body":"had most of the participants"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":678.92,"endTime":685.94,"body":"being active users of the CFD"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":678.92,"endTime":685.94,"body":"tools, like doing the 70% of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":685.94,"endTime":689.03,"body":"participants were doing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":685.94,"endTime":689.03,"body":"simulations by the by their own,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":689.6,"endTime":694.94,"body":"and 17% of the participants,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":689.6,"endTime":694.94,"body":"were ones we have a supervision"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":694.97,"endTime":700.76,"body":"role on CFD. And one more thing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":694.97,"endTime":700.76,"body":"interesting from the, from the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":700.76,"endTime":706.85,"body":"scatter of our participants, 94%"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":700.76,"endTime":706.85,"body":"of them are familiar or use FDS"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":707.18,"endTime":713.69,"body":"as the tool of CFD. So no,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":707.18,"endTime":713.69,"body":"that's kind of not surprising. ,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":714.02,"endTime":717.68,"body":"No, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":714.02,"endTime":717.68,"body":"surprise me at all. The funny"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":717.68,"endTime":719.93,"body":"thing is to see some PyroSim."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":721.22,"endTime":723.74,"body":"Oh, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":721.22,"endTime":723.74,"body":"we have a group of people who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":723.74,"endTime":727.49,"body":"mentioned PyroSim as CFD model"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":723.74,"endTime":727.49,"body":"hich is also interesting. I wond"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":727.49,"endTime":731.48,"body":"r what Brian will say about tha"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":727.49,"endTime":731.48,"body":". Well, we are here you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":731.48,"endTime":735.98,"body":"to mention that we have also a v"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":731.48,"endTime":735.98,"body":"ry healthy mix of, of veterans"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":735.98,"endTime":742.64,"body":"and newbie participants, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":735.98,"endTime":742.64,"body":"we had 43% of people with experi"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":742.67,"endTime":746.54,"body":"nce in CFD of more than 10 year"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":742.67,"endTime":746.54,"body":", and very similar n"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":746.54,"endTime":750.89,"body":"mber of of participants who just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":746.54,"endTime":750.89,"body":"start with the CFD in their fir"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":750.89,"endTime":756.8,"body":"t years of engineering careers."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":750.89,"endTime":756.8,"body":"So a very, very good mix betwee"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":756.86,"endTime":758.96,"body":"veterans. A"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":758.94,"endTime":761.529,"body":"And also"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":758.94,"endTime":761.529,"body":"Wojciech. One thing, the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":761.607,"endTime":766.315,"body":"professional education is quite"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":761.607,"endTime":766.315,"body":"interesting as well, because"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":766.393,"endTime":770.866,"body":"having 56% that study fire"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":766.393,"endTime":770.866,"body":"safety protection engineering,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":770.944,"endTime":775.26,"body":"that's a lot because we know"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":770.944,"endTime":775.26,"body":"that we have a substantial"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":775.338,"endTime":779.81,"body":"problem and that we don't have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":775.338,"endTime":779.81,"body":"so many university to fire"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":779.889,"endTime":781.38,"body":"safety engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":781.4,"endTime":783.59,"body":"That is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":781.4,"endTime":783.59,"body":"true, especially that we had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":783.59,"endTime":786.11,"body":"like a lot of participants from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":783.59,"endTime":786.11,"body":"Spain, for example, where you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":786.11,"endTime":790.16,"body":"don't have a structure of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":786.11,"endTime":790.16,"body":"teaching fire safety engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":790.19,"endTime":795.02,"body":"as a master's program, right?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":790.19,"endTime":795.02,"body":"You have, and there's probably"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":795.02,"endTime":798.59,"body":"many more countries that do not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":795.02,"endTime":798.59,"body":"have a structured way to educate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":798.59,"endTime":802.22,"body":"the fire safety engineers, yet"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":798.59,"endTime":802.22,"body":"more than 50% of, of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":802.22,"endTime":806.72,"body":"participants said that their"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":802.22,"endTime":806.72,"body":"professional education is, is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":806.72,"endTime":812.51,"body":"fire safety engineering, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":806.72,"endTime":812.51,"body":"is great. So the main part of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":812.51,"endTime":818.24,"body":"the survey was to ask the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":812.51,"endTime":818.24,"body":"participants, what tenability do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":818.24,"endTime":824.27,"body":"they use in performing ASET-RSET"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":818.24,"endTime":824.27,"body":"analysis, life safety analysis?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":824.45,"endTime":828.2,"body":"The first two answers are very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":824.45,"endTime":828.2,"body":"obvious, because like 80% of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":828.2,"endTime":832.7,"body":"people are using temperature 90%"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":828.2,"endTime":832.7,"body":"of people are using visibility."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":832.73,"endTime":836.81,"body":"So that's something that does"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":832.73,"endTime":836.81,"body":"not shock me. But I was pretty"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":836.81,"endTime":840.5,"body":"surprised. Like other more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":836.81,"endTime":840.5,"body":"complex and abridged criteria"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":840.53,"endTime":843.02,"body":"are still being fairly well"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":840.53,"endTime":843.02,"body":"used."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":843.89,"endTime":848.09,"body":"Yeah, well, I"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":843.89,"endTime":848.09,"body":"think that's all the things we"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":848.09,"endTime":854.24,"body":"put here, they come from the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":848.09,"endTime":854.24,"body":"state of the heart and and best"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":854.24,"endTime":860.42,"body":"practices. So, you know, as a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":854.24,"endTime":860.42,"body":"fire, safety, protection,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":860.96,"endTime":865.7,"body":"whatever engineer you know that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":860.96,"endTime":865.7,"body":"you have this range of criteria"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":865.7,"endTime":869.99,"body":"that you need to evaluate, okay."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":865.7,"endTime":869.99,"body":"And also, there are codes,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":870.2,"endTime":874.46,"body":"international codes or just"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":870.2,"endTime":874.46,"body":"Local Code required this kind of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":874.94,"endTime":878.96,"body":"often obeyed criteria. It"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":874.94,"endTime":878.96,"body":"doesn't surprise me that the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":878.96,"endTime":881.54,"body":"most used are visibility and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":878.96,"endTime":881.54,"body":"temperature."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":882.26,"endTime":884.6,"body":"It didn't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":882.26,"endTime":884.6,"body":"surprise me there, but I'm still"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":884.6,"endTime":889.37,"body":"surprised that like 50% of our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":884.6,"endTime":889.37,"body":"participants have used mass"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":889.37,"endTime":893.06,"body":"density of smoke or smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":889.37,"endTime":893.06,"body":"concentration as as a criterion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":893.06,"endTime":897.26,"body":"especially that it takes some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":893.06,"endTime":897.26,"body":"effort to plot that in FDS."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":897.5,"endTime":903.32,"body":"While visibility is the simplest"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":897.5,"endTime":903.32,"body":"way to to show that also, we had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":903.32,"endTime":907.52,"body":"a good number of people using"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":903.32,"endTime":907.52,"body":"radiant heat fluxes, gas"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":907.52,"endTime":910.46,"body":"concentrations, smoke layer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":907.52,"endTime":910.46,"body":"height that that was one that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":910.46,"endTime":914.06,"body":"surprised me the most. For smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":910.46,"endTime":914.06,"body":"layer height, we had a combined"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":914.06,"endTime":922.61,"body":"value of 75% of participants who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":914.06,"endTime":922.61,"body":"said that smoke layer height is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":923.24,"endTime":928.52,"body":"very often or almost every time"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":923.24,"endTime":928.52,"body":"used in their analysis, which is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":928.52,"endTime":932.78,"body":"kind of surprised to me because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":928.52,"endTime":932.78,"body":"I personally would focus on on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":932.78,"endTime":936.92,"body":"visibility and temperatures"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":932.78,"endTime":936.92,"body":"rather than heights. How is it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":936.92,"endTime":939.47,"body":"for you Gabrielle and Spanish"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":936.92,"endTime":939.47,"body":"engineering."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":939.9,"endTime":942.27,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":939.9,"endTime":942.27,"body":"the reason and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":942.6,"endTime":944.7,"body":"misunderstanding...global"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":942.6,"endTime":944.7,"body":"misunderstanding on this smoke"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":944.7,"endTime":948.18,"body":"layer height. First of all,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":944.7,"endTime":948.18,"body":"because it does exist, and in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":948.18,"endTime":952.44,"body":"all the large fire test"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":948.18,"endTime":952.44,"body":"performed, I saw that that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":952.47,"endTime":960.78,"body":"existing right, but how is that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":952.47,"endTime":960.78,"body":"used? Because normally is just"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":960.84,"endTime":964.77,"body":"an interpretation of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":960.84,"endTime":964.77,"body":"you have the smoke above your"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":964.77,"endTime":967.65,"body":"head, and that's done. Okay. So"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":964.77,"endTime":967.65,"body":"you designed the smoke control"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":967.65,"endTime":971.34,"body":"system based on that when I when"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":967.65,"endTime":971.34,"body":"I published my first work and I"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":971.34,"endTime":976.44,"body":"remember that perfectly It was"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":971.34,"endTime":976.44,"body":"2012 in Hong Kong, okay, in the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":976.44,"endTime":981.87,"body":"in the SFPE perform based"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":976.44,"endTime":981.87,"body":"conference, and they discuss the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":981.87,"endTime":985.29,"body":"difference approach to plume in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":981.87,"endTime":985.29,"body":"time correlation. So the Thomas,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":985.29,"endTime":990.42,"body":"Zukowski, McCaffrey, and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":985.29,"endTime":990.42,"body":"McCaffrey plumes. Why did that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":990.42,"endTime":994.26,"body":"because you're not estimate,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":990.42,"endTime":994.26,"body":"estimating what happened at your"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":994.74,"endTime":998.64,"body":"height, okay, head height,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":994.74,"endTime":998.64,"body":"you're just assuming that the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":998.64,"endTime":1004.31,"body":"smoke is at a certain height"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":998.64,"endTime":1004.31,"body":"into the enclosure. Okay. And"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1004.31,"endTime":1011.09,"body":"that's how you simplify all the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1004.31,"endTime":1011.09,"body":"issue. The saying, look, I want"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1011.09,"endTime":1015.95,"body":"to smoke layer 2.5 meters, Okay,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1011.09,"endTime":1015.95,"body":"excellent. Okay, and then you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1015.95,"endTime":1020.54,"body":"use this very simplified formula"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1015.95,"endTime":1020.54,"body":"to get this smoke layer at a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1020.54,"endTime":1024.32,"body":"certain height. So I think we"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1020.54,"endTime":1024.32,"body":"have a bit of a problem there."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1024.5,"endTime":1029.24,"body":"And also, if you do a CFD, so if"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1024.5,"endTime":1029.24,"body":"you run a transient simulation"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1029.24,"endTime":1035.15,"body":"for with tones of CPU hours,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1029.24,"endTime":1035.15,"body":"okay, to show that this model is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1035.15,"endTime":1040.52,"body":"stand at three meter or some"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1035.15,"endTime":1040.52,"body":"meters above the floor is not"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1040.52,"endTime":1044.54,"body":"probably the case. Okay? Because"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1040.52,"endTime":1044.54,"body":"you want to really understand"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1044.54,"endTime":1048.92,"body":"what what is happening in your"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1044.54,"endTime":1048.92,"body":"enclosure at a certain time."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1049.43,"endTime":1051.47,"body":"When you're passing through the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1049.43,"endTime":1051.47,"body":"smoke."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1053.25,"endTime":1055.17,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1053.25,"endTime":1055.17,"body":"you're touching a very important"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1055.17,"endTime":1058.29,"body":"thing here that in plume"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1055.17,"endTime":1058.29,"body":"correlations where you would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1058.29,"endTime":1061.83,"body":"calculate the the mass flow of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1058.29,"endTime":1061.83,"body":"the smoke into a smoke layer,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1062.43,"endTime":1065.85,"body":"there is this magical parameter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1062.43,"endTime":1065.85,"body":"of the of the smoke layer height"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1065.91,"endTime":1070.59,"body":"in almost every single model"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1065.91,"endTime":1070.59,"body":"that you can use for for plume"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1070.59,"endTime":1074.58,"body":"calculations. This is sometimes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1070.59,"endTime":1074.58,"body":"considered to be the smoke layer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1074.58,"endTime":1078.36,"body":"height that you expect. But in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1074.58,"endTime":1078.36,"body":"fact, it is not it's it's it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1078.36,"endTime":1081.33,"body":"just the length of the part of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1078.36,"endTime":1081.33,"body":"the plume at which the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1081.33,"endTime":1085.26,"body":"entrainment happens. And that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1081.33,"endTime":1085.26,"body":"does not necessarily correlate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1085.26,"endTime":1088.86,"body":"to the smoke layer height that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1085.26,"endTime":1088.86,"body":"you will end up in a steady"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1088.86,"endTime":1093.39,"body":"state analysis. And you've done"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1088.86,"endTime":1093.39,"body":"that with your paper about about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1093.39,"endTime":1096.78,"body":"smoke plumes where you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1093.39,"endTime":1096.78,"body":"integrated these calculations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1096.78,"endTime":1102.57,"body":"over time and and shown how the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1096.78,"endTime":1102.57,"body":"simple plume models can be used"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1102.6,"endTime":1109.92,"body":"to determine this this parameter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1102.6,"endTime":1109.92,"body":"over time, right. And it was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1109.92,"endTime":1113.1,"body":"magical that they actually that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1109.92,"endTime":1113.1,"body":"they actually met what was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1113.1,"endTime":1116.16,"body":"measured in many experiments,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1113.1,"endTime":1116.16,"body":"not just one. I found that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1116.16,"endTime":1119.7,"body":"fascinating, because it's like,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1116.16,"endTime":1119.7,"body":"How much time does it take to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1119.7,"endTime":1122.76,"body":"simulate that huge atrium that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1119.7,"endTime":1122.76,"body":"you that you used for your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1122.76,"endTime":1125.52,"body":"experiment that that must be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1122.76,"endTime":1125.52,"body":"days to run? The Murcia,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1125.55,"endTime":1126.27,"body":"properly?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1126.63,"endTime":1129.48,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1126.63,"endTime":1129.48,"body":"Absolutely. When we are so many"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1129.48,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"cases, and to be honest, I"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1129.48,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"haven't published that all the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1132.9,"endTime":1138.63,"body":"work I've done with zone waters"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1132.9,"endTime":1138.63,"body":"as well. Because I run with the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1138.9,"endTime":1144.84,"body":"CFAST, OZone, Branzfire and risk"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1138.9,"endTime":1144.84,"body":"all the scenarios. Okay, but"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1144.87,"endTime":1150.48,"body":"because the plume correlation"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1144.87,"endTime":1150.48,"body":"where we're there, so I simplify"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1150.48,"endTime":1156.3,"body":"the concept. Again, to get an"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1150.48,"endTime":1156.3,"body":"answer, instead of to have a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1156.3,"endTime":1157.23,"body":"published paper."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1157.92,"endTime":1160.47,"body":"In a way a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1157.92,"endTime":1160.47,"body":"calculating smoke layer height1"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1160.5,"endTime":1166.11,"body":"is fascinating, yet, if you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1160.5,"endTime":1166.11,"body":"consider running CFD analysis,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1166.68,"endTime":1170.01,"body":"for me, it's kind of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1166.68,"endTime":1170.01,"body":"concept. It doesn't click for me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1170.01,"endTime":1176.7,"body":"because I want the smoke to not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1170.01,"endTime":1176.7,"body":"be where my humans are. And I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1176.7,"endTime":1180.3,"body":"want the margin of safety, like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1176.7,"endTime":1180.3,"body":"above the heads of participants,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1180.3,"endTime":1184.8,"body":"but that would be project based."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1180.3,"endTime":1184.8,"body":"I would not evaluate just the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1184.8,"endTime":1189.03,"body":"height of the layer. But I agree"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1184.8,"endTime":1189.03,"body":"you mentioned that authorities"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1189.03,"endTime":1192.63,"body":"main may require that or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1189.03,"endTime":1192.63,"body":"firefighters may want that or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1192.63,"endTime":1196.62,"body":"you want to be in alignment with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1192.63,"endTime":1196.62,"body":"with the standard that requires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1196.62,"endTime":1198.72,"body":"that so I assume that that must"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1196.62,"endTime":1198.72,"body":"be."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1198.72,"endTime":1201.03,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1198.72,"endTime":1201.03,"body":"sometimes you just need to show"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1201.03,"endTime":1205.05,"body":"them because they want that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1201.03,"endTime":1205.05,"body":"answer. Because for example, in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1205.08,"endTime":1211.2,"body":"fire dynamics siumlator, FDS,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1205.08,"endTime":1211.2,"body":"you have the capability to to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1211.2,"endTime":1217.95,"body":"get the smoke layer. Okay?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1211.2,"endTime":1217.95,"body":"height. But that is based on"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1217.95,"endTime":1223.95,"body":"temperature and is not that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1217.95,"endTime":1223.95,"body":"accurate. Okay? If you see the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1223.95,"endTime":1230.1,"body":"result of from FDS of this smoke"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1223.95,"endTime":1230.1,"body":"layer that is like sort of laser"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1230.1,"endTime":1234.66,"body":"beam, and you measure the the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1230.1,"endTime":1234.66,"body":"smoke  layer between temperature"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1234.66,"endTime":1239.16,"body":"and other coefficient, it"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1234.66,"endTime":1239.16,"body":"doesn't correspond to what you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1239.16,"endTime":1242.49,"body":"see, for example, if you if you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1239.16,"endTime":1242.49,"body":"show us nice file with"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1242.97,"endTime":1243.54,"body":"visibility."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1243.77,"endTime":1246.17,"body":"Yeah, and I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1243.77,"endTime":1246.17,"body":"think in one of your papers,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1246.17,"endTime":1251.81,"body":"I've also read that integration"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1246.17,"endTime":1251.81,"body":"approach for the layer height"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1251.93,"endTime":1256.1,"body":"can make a difference of meters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1251.93,"endTime":1256.1,"body":"in terms of the evaluated"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1256.1,"endTime":1261.89,"body":"height, depending if you take,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1256.1,"endTime":1261.89,"body":"like 30% or 10% of the of the of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1261.89,"endTime":1264.68,"body":"the smoke concentration or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1261.89,"endTime":1264.68,"body":"temperature as the end of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1264.68,"endTime":1269.66,"body":"layer. And it's I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1264.68,"endTime":1269.66,"body":"it's very rarely a very sharp"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1269.66,"endTime":1272.87,"body":"condition, there must be a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1269.66,"endTime":1272.87,"body":"gradient not not a sharp line."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1273.2,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"Exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1273.2,"endTime":1275.48,"body":"that it depends a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1275.48,"endTime":1281.57,"body":"soot yield of the smoke, if you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1275.48,"endTime":1281.57,"body":"see them the results. Well, the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1281.57,"endTime":1288.56,"body":"picture of the test we were"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1281.57,"endTime":1288.56,"body":"performing in ITB, for the most"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1288.65,"endTime":1295.13,"body":"metanol,  heptane, toluene and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1288.65,"endTime":1295.13,"body":"propanol probably."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1295.79,"endTime":1297.17,"body":"Oh, man,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1295.79,"endTime":1297.17,"body":"we're not allowed to burn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1297.17,"endTime":1298.58,"body":"toluene in that lab after that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1297.17,"endTime":1298.58,"body":"one..."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1300.74,"endTime":1302.75,"body":"the toluene"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1300.74,"endTime":1302.75,"body":"as incredible. So you can see"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1302.75,"endTime":1309.59,"body":"hat the most sooty is the smok"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1302.75,"endTime":1309.59,"body":", the less gradient you have."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1310.06,"endTime":1312.976,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1310.06,"endTime":1312.976,"body":"that's that's true. We, we've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1313.06,"endTime":1318.227,"body":"seen that. To continue on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1313.06,"endTime":1318.227,"body":"survey. A lot of people are very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1318.31,"endTime":1323.227,"body":"interested, we had 250 people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1318.31,"endTime":1323.227,"body":"answering the questions. So I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1323.31,"endTime":1327.81,"body":"assume all of them are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1323.31,"endTime":1327.81,"body":"interested in the outcomes. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1327.894,"endTime":1333.227,"body":"the second important question we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1327.894,"endTime":1333.227,"body":"asked is, how often do you take"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1333.311,"endTime":1338.394,"body":"engineering decisions based on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1333.311,"endTime":1338.394,"body":"condition? So so it's not only"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1335.41,"endTime":1385.81,"body":"Not at all, you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1335.41,"endTime":1385.81,"body":"should probably define this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1338.477,"endTime":1343.228,"body":"if you use that, but how often"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1338.477,"endTime":1343.228,"body":"that condition changes the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1343.311,"endTime":1348.728,"body":"outcomes of your design. And for"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1343.311,"endTime":1348.728,"body":"me here, the only consistent one"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1348.811,"endTime":1353.395,"body":"really is is visibility in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1348.811,"endTime":1353.395,"body":"smoke, because we had 89% of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1353.478,"endTime":1358.062,"body":"people saying they use"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1353.478,"endTime":1358.062,"body":"visibility in smoke, and we have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1358.145,"endTime":1363.395,"body":"89% people mentioning that they"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1358.145,"endTime":1363.395,"body":"take decisions based on this on"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1363.479,"endTime":1368.229,"body":"this criterion. So it's very"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1363.479,"endTime":1368.229,"body":"consistent. For example, for"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1368.312,"endTime":1373.646,"body":"temperature, it's it's slightly"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1368.312,"endTime":1373.646,"body":"skewed because we had 76% people"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1373.729,"endTime":1378.896,"body":"saying they use it, but just 45%"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1373.729,"endTime":1378.896,"body":"doing design choices based on"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1378.979,"endTime":1382.73,"body":"that temperature. Does this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1378.979,"endTime":1382.73,"body":"shock you or not?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1385.81,"endTime":1393.49,"body":"better. Engineering choice. We"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1385.81,"endTime":1393.49,"body":"are talking about what what is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1393.49,"endTime":1399.01,"body":"the criteria that define your"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1393.49,"endTime":1399.01,"body":"ASET time? Okay, that's one of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1399.04,"endTime":1403.36,"body":"the most important thing so you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1399.04,"endTime":1403.36,"body":"have like a carpark. You have a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1403.36,"endTime":1407.95,"body":"spread of smoke for a fire."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1403.36,"endTime":1407.95,"body":"Right. Okay. So what is the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1407.95,"endTime":1415.81,"body":"first criteria? Okay, that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1407.95,"endTime":1415.81,"body":"appear there and and say, a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1415.81,"endTime":1422.11,"body":"condition untenable. Okay. So it"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1415.81,"endTime":1422.11,"body":"doesn't surprise me at all that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1422.29,"endTime":1425.77,"body":"the most use that tenability"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1422.29,"endTime":1425.77,"body":"criteria in the definition that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1425.77,"endTime":1430.96,"body":"is visibility and temperature"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1425.77,"endTime":1430.96,"body":"appear here in the most used one"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1431.14,"endTime":1435.94,"body":"in determining ASET  time. And"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1431.14,"endTime":1435.94,"body":"also, I think we can combine"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1436.0,"endTime":1439.21,"body":"visibility with mass"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1436.0,"endTime":1439.21,"body":"concentration of smoke."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1439.36,"endTime":1441.07,"body":"Yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1439.36,"endTime":1441.07,"body":"will, we will do that when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1441.07,"endTime":1445.54,"body":"processing the survey results"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1441.07,"endTime":1445.54,"body":"properly. Because it's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1445.54,"endTime":1448.57,"body":"data that needs to be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1445.54,"endTime":1448.57,"body":"scientifically processed. And we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1448.57,"endTime":1453.01,"body":"will do that. Definitely. Here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1448.57,"endTime":1453.01,"body":"It's just a quick look, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1453.01,"endTime":1456.88,"body":"we are so excited with the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1453.01,"endTime":1456.88,"body":"results. I mean, we had 250"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1456.88,"endTime":1459.82,"body":"colleagues share their opinion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1456.88,"endTime":1459.82,"body":"with us. And then that makes us"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1459.82,"endTime":1463.6,"body":"very happy. Sorry, the other"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1459.82,"endTime":1463.6,"body":"ones were smoke concentration,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1464.02,"endTime":1471.34,"body":"which define ASET in 40% of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1464.02,"endTime":1471.34,"body":"cases. And I also saw the smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1471.34,"endTime":1474.31,"body":"layer hide was actually quite"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1471.34,"endTime":1474.31,"body":"high because it was like 60% of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1474.31,"endTime":1477.46,"body":"the cases. And the other ones"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1474.31,"endTime":1477.46,"body":"other conditions like radiant"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1477.46,"endTime":1483.01,"body":"heat flux, toxic gases, they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1477.46,"endTime":1483.01,"body":"were usually below 25%. So less"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1483.01,"endTime":1487.57,"body":"than 25% engineers say they this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1483.01,"endTime":1487.57,"body":"this criterion is very impactful"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1487.57,"endTime":1489.22,"body":"for the ASET analysis."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1490.09,"endTime":1493.9,"body":"Yeah, just one"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1490.09,"endTime":1493.9,"body":"one thing Wojciech. I think this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1493.96,"endTime":1500.23,"body":"is absolutely consistent with"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1493.96,"endTime":1500.23,"body":"the  science. Okay, off course."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1500.77,"endTime":1505.33,"body":"With the mention here, if the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1500.77,"endTime":1505.33,"body":"building is an airport, a tunnel"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1505.63,"endTime":1509.62,"body":"a smaller room, or if we look"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1505.63,"endTime":1509.62,"body":"into fire intervention or the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1509.62,"endTime":1512.23,"body":"evacuation... Well, it's mostly"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1509.62,"endTime":1512.23,"body":"evacuation because it is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1512.29,"endTime":1517.87,"body":"ASET-RSET. But when it happened"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1512.29,"endTime":1517.87,"body":"to me for example, in remember"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1525.34,"body":"that in Riyadh I did some"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1525.34,"body":"analysis for one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1525.34,"endTime":1531.91,"body":"station of the metro there and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1525.34,"endTime":1531.91,"body":"the authority as gas to measure"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1532.87,"endTime":1536.92,"body":"to provide as a result of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1532.87,"endTime":1536.92,"body":"radiative heat flux, CO"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1537.43,"endTime":1541.54,"body":"concentration, what more here"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1541.66,"endTime":1543.91,"body":"we are very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1541.66,"endTime":1543.91,"body":"often asked for oxygen"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1543.91,"endTime":1544.27,"body":"concentration,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1544.0,"endTime":1547.39,"body":"Oxygen"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1544.0,"endTime":1547.39,"body":"concentration etc, etc, okay."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1547.54,"endTime":1553.54,"body":"So, at the end, we did provide"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1547.54,"endTime":1553.54,"body":"that, but it was absolutely"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1554.08,"endTime":1558.94,"body":"useless, okay. Because, if you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1554.08,"endTime":1558.94,"body":"have your visibility at like 10"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1558.94,"endTime":1563.86,"body":"meters, for example, most of the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1558.94,"endTime":1563.86,"body":"toxic gases, we are talking"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1564.01,"endTime":1570.4,"body":"again about a normal enclosure"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1564.01,"endTime":1570.4,"body":"with an celulosic or plastic"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1570.4,"endTime":1575.14,"body":"fire, okay, something that we"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1570.4,"endTime":1575.14,"body":"normally deal with. And when you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1575.14,"endTime":1579.52,"body":"have a visibility of 10 meters,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1575.14,"endTime":1579.52,"body":"normally all the toxic gases are"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1579.64,"endTime":1584.68,"body":"far down in the limit and the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1579.64,"endTime":1584.68,"body":"concentration. And the same"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1584.68,"endTime":1587.29,"body":"thing happen, for example, in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1584.68,"endTime":1587.29,"body":"the in the radiation, because"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1587.32,"endTime":1592.6,"body":"radiation is temperature to the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1587.32,"endTime":1592.6,"body":"times of four. So, when your"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1593.11,"endTime":1597.91,"body":"temperature is so low, your"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1593.11,"endTime":1597.91,"body":"radiation consequently is low,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1598.0,"endTime":1599.56,"body":"unless you are very close to the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1598.0,"endTime":1599.56,"body":"fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1600.43,"endTime":1602.08,"body":"And the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1600.43,"endTime":1602.08,"body":"emissivity of the smoke will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1602.11,"endTime":1605.23,"body":"depend on the optical thickness"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1602.11,"endTime":1605.23,"body":"of the smoke layer, which again"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1605.23,"endTime":1608.41,"body":"is the same thing as the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1605.23,"endTime":1608.41,"body":"visibility. So, if you have very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1608.44,"endTime":1611.65,"body":"thick, optically, very thick"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1608.44,"endTime":1611.65,"body":"smoke, it means there was a lot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1611.65,"endTime":1615.19,"body":"of soot around and if there was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1611.65,"endTime":1615.19,"body":"a lot of soot around, you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1615.19,"endTime":1619.0,"body":"most likely failed your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1615.19,"endTime":1619.0,"body":"visibility before you've reached"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1619.0,"endTime":1622.3,"body":"this temperature and critical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1619.0,"endTime":1622.3,"body":"emissivity, to break the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1622.3,"endTime":1626.8,"body":"radiative heat flux so. It all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1622.3,"endTime":1626.8,"body":"aligns. It's, it's, I mean, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1626.8,"endTime":1630.61,"body":"this, I'm very happy because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1626.8,"endTime":1630.61,"body":"this thing's when we discussed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1630.61,"endTime":1634.21,"body":"this as as two people with with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1630.61,"endTime":1634.21,"body":"experience in that and then we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1634.21,"endTime":1639.1,"body":"can call ourselves researchers,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1634.21,"endTime":1639.1,"body":"it is in a way obvious to us."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1639.52,"endTime":1644.11,"body":"But then again, you have a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1639.52,"endTime":1644.11,"body":"junior engineer who will face a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1644.11,"endTime":1647.59,"body":"project in the Rijadh, and the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1644.11,"endTime":1647.59,"body":"authorities will ask him for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1647.59,"endTime":1652.6,"body":"this and they will not be able"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1647.59,"endTime":1652.6,"body":"to tell that it's pointless to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1652.6,"endTime":1655.39,"body":"do that, let's focus on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1652.6,"endTime":1655.39,"body":"important things and important"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1655.39,"endTime":1658.06,"body":"design choices. Now they will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1655.39,"endTime":1658.06,"body":"waste one or two days,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1658.36,"endTime":1665.2,"body":"processing meaningless data just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1658.36,"endTime":1665.2,"body":"to show the accurate number of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1665.38,"endTime":1668.92,"body":"of colorful plots to the to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1665.38,"endTime":1668.92,"body":"AHJ. And that's that's one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1668.92,"endTime":1671.47,"body":"thing. The good isn't that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1671.51,"endTime":1674.27,"body":"A Junior"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1671.51,"endTime":1674.27,"body":"engineer is there to learn. A"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1674.27,"endTime":1679.01,"body":"fire authority should be there"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1674.27,"endTime":1679.01,"body":"to teach. So probably more."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1679.73,"endTime":1684.38,"body":"There are plenty of fire"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1679.73,"endTime":1684.38,"body":"authority there that should put"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1684.38,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"themselves like junior engineers"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1684.38,"endTime":1687.5,"body":"and learn more."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1688.82,"endTime":1691.07,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1688.82,"endTime":1691.07,"body":"hope that many of them will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1691.07,"endTime":1695.87,"body":"listen to this podcast and I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1691.07,"endTime":1695.87,"body":"hope this will be a very nice"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1695.87,"endTime":1698.45,"body":"and easy way to improve your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1695.87,"endTime":1698.45,"body":"qualifications and learn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1698.45,"endTime":1703.46,"body":"something new. To roundup the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1698.45,"endTime":1703.46,"body":"survey. I mean, the survey had a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1703.46,"endTime":1708.2,"body":"lot more questions like how do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1703.46,"endTime":1708.2,"body":"you represent your your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1708.23,"endTime":1712.49,"body":"outcomes? What height do you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1708.23,"endTime":1712.49,"body":"measure them? These are all very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1712.49,"endTime":1716.09,"body":"interesting, but I just cannot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1712.49,"endTime":1716.09,"body":"go over the visibility factor."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1716.09,"endTime":1721.19,"body":"Like the scatter in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1716.09,"endTime":1721.19,"body":"visibility factor question is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1721.22,"endTime":1725.63,"body":"just amazing. First, Gabrielle,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1721.22,"endTime":1725.63,"body":"can you bring us to the point"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1725.63,"endTime":1727.61,"body":"what is the visibility factor?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1728.41,"endTime":1731.29,"body":"Yeah, well, we"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1728.41,"endTime":1731.29,"body":"recently published post on"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1731.29,"endTime":1735.73,"body":"LinkedIn in because it was the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1731.29,"endTime":1735.73,"body":"easiest ways to reach engineers"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1735.73,"endTime":1740.68,"body":"on on that. So basically the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1735.73,"endTime":1740.68,"body":"visibility estimated in in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1740.68,"endTime":1745.75,"body":"safety calculation. The one that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1740.68,"endTime":1745.75,"body":"when we mostly use is very"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1745.75,"endTime":1751.0,"body":"simple. So the visibility is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1745.75,"endTime":1751.0,"body":"this visibility factor divided"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1751.0,"endTime":1755.26,"body":"by the light extinction"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1751.0,"endTime":1755.26,"body":"coefficient. Okay, this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1755.26,"endTime":1761.83,"body":"visibility factor has plenty of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1755.26,"endTime":1761.83,"body":"coefficients inside, that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1762.19,"endTime":1766.9,"body":"everything is the gcomes from"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1762.19,"endTime":1766.9,"body":"the Bougher Lambert Beer"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1767.77,"endTime":1775.81,"body":"equation or Beer-Lamber...or"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1767.77,"endTime":1775.81,"body":"just Beer... so the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1775.81,"endTime":1780.43,"body":"simplification is there. So you"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1775.81,"endTime":1780.43,"body":"have this special number that is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1780.43,"endTime":1783.91,"body":"this visibility factor, that is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1780.43,"endTime":1783.91,"body":"normally used the in the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1784.48,"endTime":1790.99,"body":"engineering world, is divided"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1784.48,"endTime":1790.99,"body":"into reflecting sign that is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1790.99,"endTime":1794.77,"body":"equal to three and a light"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1790.99,"endTime":1794.77,"body":"emiting sign for it  is eight."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1795.07,"endTime":1797.59,"body":"And that's pretty much that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1795.07,"endTime":1797.59,"body":"that's it. This is far more"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1797.59,"endTime":1805.24,"body":"complicated because the plenty"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1797.59,"endTime":1805.24,"body":"of coefficients, but you know,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1805.24,"endTime":1811.21,"body":"as an empirical coefficient, it"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1805.24,"endTime":1811.21,"body":"is just the number. And the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1811.21,"endTime":1813.97,"body":"results on the surveys quite"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1811.21,"endTime":1813.97,"body":"interesting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1819.54,"body":"Yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1814.71,"endTime":1819.54,"body":"had 34% people say they use"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1819.84,"endTime":1824.52,"body":"value of three, four, like the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1819.84,"endTime":1824.52,"body":"reflecting signs, and 10%, say"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1824.52,"endTime":1828.81,"body":"they use value eight, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1824.52,"endTime":1828.81,"body":"means there is just 44% of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1828.81,"endTime":1834.21,"body":"people using the values three,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1828.81,"endTime":1834.21,"body":"or eight as we would like I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1834.21,"endTime":1837.42,"body":"would personally usually do,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1834.21,"endTime":1837.42,"body":"pick one of them, there's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1837.42,"endTime":1843.06,"body":"great group of people saying the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1837.42,"endTime":1843.06,"body":"30-31% is they choose individual"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1843.06,"endTime":1848.97,"body":"value of the C factor on based"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1843.06,"endTime":1848.97,"body":"on the project requirements. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1849.0,"endTime":1852.84,"body":"there's a good group of people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1849.0,"endTime":1852.84,"body":"like 10% of the participants who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1852.84,"endTime":1857.97,"body":"use values from within a range,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1852.84,"endTime":1857.97,"body":"because in the original paper in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1857.97,"endTime":1863.67,"body":"Japanese, from 1970, by Jin,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1857.97,"endTime":1863.67,"body":"this, this value was actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1863.76,"endTime":1869.7,"body":"determined, as linearly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1863.76,"endTime":1869.7,"body":"correlated with the background"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1869.7,"endTime":1873.3,"body":"brightness and contrast. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1869.7,"endTime":1873.3,"body":"there's a possibility to use a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1873.3,"endTime":1878.19,"body":"range of these factors. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1873.3,"endTime":1878.19,"body":"what surprised me is that I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1878.19,"endTime":1881.46,"body":"thought that we'll have like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1878.19,"endTime":1881.46,"body":"half of the survey participants"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1881.76,"endTime":1885.84,"body":"choosing three half choosing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1881.76,"endTime":1885.84,"body":"eight, and just few percent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1885.84,"endTime":1889.11,"body":"saying they do otherwise. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1885.84,"endTime":1889.11,"body":"I'm quite surprised. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1889.14,"endTime":1893.85,"body":"actually, that's pretty cool."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1889.14,"endTime":1893.85,"body":"Because it means people try to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1893.85,"endTime":1897.6,"body":"learn and and really use these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1893.85,"endTime":1897.6,"body":"advanced methods as they were"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1897.99,"endTime":1901.2,"body":"conceived, because it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1897.99,"endTime":1901.2,"body":"engineering. Yeah, I hope."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1901.32,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"I hope so."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1901.32,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"Because if not, we have a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1903.48,"endTime":1903.96,"body":"trouble."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1904.77,"endTime":1908.37,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1904.77,"endTime":1908.37,"body":"From for that side, it's it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1908.37,"endTime":1909.15,"body":"could be kind of bland,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1909.15,"endTime":1913.08,"body":"And to be"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1909.15,"endTime":1913.08,"body":"honest. In my point of view,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1913.8,"endTime":1919.65,"body":"people are using that. Well, so"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1913.8,"endTime":1919.65,"body":"and so... This article that we"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1919.65,"endTime":1924.24,"body":"published together, raised the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1919.65,"endTime":1924.24,"body":"problem of understanding,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1925.05,"endTime":1928.77,"body":"because if you use three or"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1925.05,"endTime":1928.77,"body":"eight, then are you able to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1928.83,"endTime":1934.26,"body":"understand the result of your of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1928.83,"endTime":1934.26,"body":"your CFD model, okay, if you use"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1934.29,"endTime":1938.04,"body":"like eight, for example, for"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1934.29,"endTime":1938.04,"body":"emitting sign, so you see the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1938.04,"endTime":1942.51,"body":"smoke layer, through the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1938.04,"endTime":1942.51,"body":"visibility, you might be"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1942.54,"endTime":1944.79,"body":"particularly wrong. And under"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":1942.54,"endTime":1944.79,"body":"conservative,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1945.57,"endTime":1947.25,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1945.57,"endTime":1947.25,"body":"personally do my judgment based"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1947.25,"endTime":1951.21,"body":"on mass concentration of smoke,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1947.25,"endTime":1951.21,"body":"I'm in the minority, that does"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1951.21,"endTime":1955.65,"body":"not really use visibility as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1951.21,"endTime":1955.65,"body":"visibility, I have to translate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1955.65,"endTime":1960.42,"body":"my engineering into visibility,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1955.65,"endTime":1960.42,"body":"because of peer pressure. To"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1960.42,"endTime":1963.33,"body":"explain this concept to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1960.42,"endTime":1963.33,"body":"firefighters or someone else, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1963.33,"endTime":1966.42,"body":"usually have to use visibility"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1963.33,"endTime":1966.42,"body":"in smoke. But the engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1966.42,"endTime":1970.29,"body":"judgment is usually based on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1966.42,"endTime":1970.29,"body":"critical value of mass density"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1970.32,"endTime":1973.23,"body":"of smoke, which which was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1970.32,"endTime":1973.23,"body":"devised actually, by by the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1973.23,"endTime":1976.89,"body":"Jin's correlation and specific"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1973.23,"endTime":1976.89,"body":"mass extinction coefficient of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1976.89,"endTime":1980.55,"body":"Mulholland. And we just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1976.89,"endTime":1980.55,"body":"calculated what's the mass"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1980.55,"endTime":1983.79,"body":"coresponding to the 10 meter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1980.55,"endTime":1983.79,"body":"visibility for light emitting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1983.79,"endTime":1988.02,"body":"science for C factor eight. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1983.79,"endTime":1988.02,"body":"in a way, it's hidden in there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1988.29,"endTime":1992.91,"body":"But I rather prefer working with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1988.29,"endTime":1992.91,"body":"mass smoke densities, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1992.94,"endTime":1996.36,"body":"that's what the solver solves"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1992.94,"endTime":1996.36,"body":"for. I mean, the physics of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1996.36,"endTime":1999.48,"body":"smoke is there, not physics of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1996.36,"endTime":1999.48,"body":"visibility. And that's why I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1999.48,"endTime":2002.93,"body":"prefer that. In past you, you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":1999.48,"endTime":2002.93,"body":"actually touched that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2002.93,"endTime":2006.8,"body":"scientifically. The sensitivity"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2002.93,"endTime":2006.8,"body":"of CFD analysis to these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2006.8,"endTime":2010.88,"body":"factors. Actually, that's where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2006.8,"endTime":2010.88,"body":"we met in in Copenhagen. I think"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2010.94,"endTime":2011.54,"body":"it was,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2011.57,"endTime":2014.81,"body":"Yeah, then where"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2011.57,"endTime":2014.81,"body":"everything started with you, the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2014.81,"endTime":2022.13,"body":"academic relationship. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2014.81,"endTime":2022.13,"body":"basically, I was supervisor to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2022.13,"endTime":2028.25,"body":"Michael Alonso, that did his"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2022.13,"endTime":2028.25,"body":"master thesis in here in Madrid."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2028.49,"endTime":2035.27,"body":"And the aim of the thesis was to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2028.49,"endTime":2035.27,"body":"play a bit with input on fds"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2035.27,"endTime":2040.43,"body":"analysis to get an understanding"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2035.27,"endTime":2040.43,"body":"of what a change in the input"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2040.43,"endTime":2045.86,"body":"that would determine a change in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2040.43,"endTime":2045.86,"body":"the output. So we run like few"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2045.86,"endTime":2050.18,"body":"cases, based on the Murcia"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2045.86,"endTime":2050.18,"body":"atrium, we make a matrix"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2050.18,"endTime":2054.23,"body":"changing the manifestation"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2050.18,"endTime":2054.23,"body":"coefficient, the C factor and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2054.23,"endTime":2060.05,"body":"the soot yield. And actually,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2054.23,"endTime":2060.05,"body":"between the range of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2060.32,"endTime":2065.48,"body":"applicability, okay, so using a"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2060.32,"endTime":2065.48,"body":"value of three and eighton the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2065.54,"endTime":2069.92,"body":"visibility factor, and mass"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2065.54,"endTime":2069.92,"body":"extinction coefficien between, I"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2069.92,"endTime":2077.27,"body":"think, is 7.6k to 8.7k (8700"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2069.92,"endTime":2077.27,"body":"m2/kg), a range between that and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2077.27,"endTime":2083.78,"body":"the visibility (soot yield)"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2077.27,"endTime":2083.78,"body":"between 0.01 up to 0.2. I guess."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2085.64,"endTime":2091.94,"body":"We we came out with the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2085.64,"endTime":2091.94,"body":"visibility itself as a an outpu"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2092.0,"endTime":2096.41,"body":"and and actually the results"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2092.0,"endTime":2096.41,"body":"were quite, quite interesting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2096.54,"endTime":2099.33,"body":"I remember"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2096.54,"endTime":2099.33,"body":"that that research and because I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2099.33,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"was sitting there I was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2099.33,"endTime":2102.78,"body":"watching. And when I saw that, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2102.81,"endTime":2106.08,"body":"came to realization that you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2102.81,"endTime":2106.08,"body":"modeled that with a computer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2106.08,"endTime":2109.05,"body":"like with the CFD code. And I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2106.08,"endTime":2109.05,"body":"figured out I have a lab that we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2109.05,"endTime":2112.98,"body":"can model that. And you know"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2109.05,"endTime":2112.98,"body":"what it was a coincidence. Like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2112.98,"endTime":2117.15,"body":"few weeks before this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2112.98,"endTime":2117.15,"body":"conference, we have hosted a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2117.15,"endTime":2120.63,"body":"group of politicians, of Polish"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2117.15,"endTime":2120.63,"body":"politicians in the lab. And we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2120.63,"endTime":2123.66,"body":"were asked to do some nice"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2120.63,"endTime":2123.66,"body":"presentation for them what we're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2124.05,"endTime":2127.23,"body":"what we are doing at the ITB. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2124.05,"endTime":2127.23,"body":"we figured, okay, let's let's do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2127.23,"endTime":2130.53,"body":"a fire in the ISO chamber. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2127.23,"endTime":2130.53,"body":"we did the fire at the ISO"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2130.53,"endTime":2133.8,"body":"chamber. And during this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2130.53,"endTime":2133.8,"body":"presentation, I realized that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2134.04,"endTime":2137.55,"body":"for the mass of fuel that we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2134.04,"endTime":2137.55,"body":"have used and after we turned of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2137.55,"endTime":2139.95,"body":"ventilation of the chamber,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2137.55,"endTime":2139.95,"body":"because we wanted to show them a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2139.95,"endTime":2144.45,"body":"very nice layer of smoke, we, we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2139.95,"endTime":2144.45,"body":"came to the realization that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2144.45,"endTime":2148.92,"body":"we've reached a pretty decent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2144.45,"endTime":2148.92,"body":"steady state on the smoke layer."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2149.04,"endTime":2152.79,"body":"And because our approaches to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2149.04,"endTime":2152.79,"body":"measure the extinction"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2152.79,"endTime":2156.57,"body":"coefficient of the smoke layer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2152.79,"endTime":2156.57,"body":"was running, we saw it, it just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2156.6,"endTime":2162.48,"body":"flattened out. So by accident,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2156.6,"endTime":2162.48,"body":"we have turned transient problem"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2162.51,"endTime":2166.38,"body":"of, of the evolution of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2162.51,"endTime":2166.38,"body":"visibility into steady state"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2166.38,"endTime":2172.65,"body":"problem of having a stable layer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2166.38,"endTime":2172.65,"body":"of the gas in, in our lab, and I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2172.65,"endTime":2175.56,"body":"just liked that. But then a few"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2172.65,"endTime":2175.56,"body":"weeks later, I met your talk,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2175.56,"endTime":2180.0,"body":"and it immediately caught my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2175.56,"endTime":2180.0,"body":"attention. Okay, we can actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2180.0,"endTime":2185.46,"body":"do this in the lab and turn this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2180.0,"endTime":2185.46,"body":"problem into something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2185.46,"endTime":2188.91,"body":"researchable just let's use"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2185.46,"endTime":2188.91,"body":"fuels with different soot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2188.91,"endTime":2193.89,"body":"yields. And then we can measure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2188.91,"endTime":2193.89,"body":"how big the scatter is from an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2193.89,"endTime":2197.31,"body":"experiment, not the simulation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2193.89,"endTime":2197.31,"body":"And that's what that's what he"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2197.31,"endTime":2202.77,"body":"did with with with experiments"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2197.31,"endTime":2202.77,"body":"with methane, ethanol, sorry,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2202.8,"endTime":2207.96,"body":"ethanol, propanol and toluene."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2202.8,"endTime":2207.96,"body":"And yeah, the outcome was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2207.96,"endTime":2212.58,"body":"interesting. Because we have we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2207.96,"endTime":2212.58,"body":"have founded, we can call you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2212.58,"endTime":2217.56,"body":"the magic number, but that there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2212.58,"endTime":2217.56,"body":"is this, this this point, above"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2217.56,"endTime":2222.3,"body":"which it barely matters, if you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2217.56,"endTime":2222.3,"body":"change the soot yield, and below"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2222.3,"endTime":2225.93,"body":"it, it matters a lot. That was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2222.3,"endTime":2225.93,"body":"0.1 gram per gram, by the way,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2226.08,"endTime":2228.18,"body":"We defined that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2226.08,"endTime":2228.18,"body":"as a cutoff point that is not"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2228.18,"endTime":2231.33,"body":"actually cutoff point, because"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2228.18,"endTime":2231.33,"body":"you have this hyperbolic"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2231.33,"endTime":2236.28,"body":"behavior that is obviously based"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2231.33,"endTime":2236.28,"body":"on the formula of the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2236.28,"endTime":2239.82,"body":"visibility. But the interesting"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2236.28,"endTime":2239.82,"body":"thing is that you have the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2239.82,"endTime":2244.98,"body":"formula in so researcher can"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2239.82,"endTime":2244.98,"body":"play with that fantastic. But"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2244.98,"endTime":2249.93,"body":"then, as an engineer's, we have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2244.98,"endTime":2249.93,"body":"values, okay, to put into that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2249.93,"endTime":2255.81,"body":"formula. And normally, as fire"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2249.93,"endTime":2255.81,"body":"safety engineers would play in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2255.81,"endTime":2260.64,"body":"the range of zero to 0.1. That's"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2255.81,"endTime":2260.64,"body":"or 0.2. Actually, that's the"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2260.64,"endTime":2264.72,"body":"range when we move into, okay,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2260.64,"endTime":2264.72,"body":"so if you have, for example,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2265.14,"endTime":2270.99,"body":"pine wood, you can like have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2265.14,"endTime":2270.99,"body":"like 0.03 or 0.04, it's quite"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2270.99,"endTime":2274.38,"body":"difficult to measure that soot"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2270.99,"endTime":2274.38,"body":"yield. So it's not"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2274.38,"endTime":2279.12,"body":"straightforward. Okay. It"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2274.38,"endTime":2279.12,"body":"depends if you are over"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2279.12,"endTime":2284.1,"body":"ventilated, well ventilated. You"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2279.12,"endTime":2284.1,"body":"know, it's quite difficult to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2284.1,"endTime":2288.96,"body":"measure that. But anyhow, quite,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2284.1,"endTime":2288.96,"body":"it is quite clear that said,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2288.96,"endTime":2294.84,"body":"change it from 0.1 to 0.2 or"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2288.96,"endTime":2294.84,"body":"0.3. Okay, it's not changing"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2295.08,"endTime":2298.92,"body":"almost anything. Okay. Because"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2295.08,"endTime":2298.92,"body":"we are very, you're on the right"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2298.92,"endTime":2305.91,"body":"side of hyperbolic trend. But if"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2298.92,"endTime":2305.91,"body":"you're playing between zero and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2305.91,"endTime":2312.54,"body":"0.1, well, your result can"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2305.91,"endTime":2312.54,"body":"change dramatically. In probably"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2312.54,"endTime":2317.85,"body":"still FDS5, and definitely in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2312.54,"endTime":2317.85,"body":"FDS4, the default reaction was"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2317.85,"endTime":2323.55,"body":"propane with a soot yield of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2317.85,"endTime":2323.55,"body":"0.01 gram per gram. Okay, so if"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2323.55,"endTime":2330.33,"body":"you see where 0.01 is there, in"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2323.55,"endTime":2330.33,"body":"the graph, it's a massive change"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2330.36,"endTime":2333.18,"body":"if you 0.01 or 0.1."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2334.2,"endTime":2336.84,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2334.2,"endTime":2336.84,"body":"exactly. It's also difficult to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2336.84,"endTime":2340.02,"body":"get scientifically accurate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2336.84,"endTime":2340.02,"body":"number, as you mentioned, is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2340.02,"endTime":2343.83,"body":"difficult to measure that, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2340.02,"endTime":2343.83,"body":"you also do not have homogeneous"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2343.83,"endTime":2348.75,"body":"materials, we have very complex"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2343.83,"endTime":2348.75,"body":"materials, yeah, and and mixes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2348.75,"endTime":2352.77,"body":"of materials. So you'd have to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2348.75,"endTime":2352.77,"body":"estimate this value for your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2352.77,"endTime":2357.21,"body":"whole mix. And then to add"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2352.77,"endTime":2357.21,"body":"complexity on top of that, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2357.21,"endTime":2360.93,"body":"also should include the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2357.21,"endTime":2360.93,"body":"efficiency of the combustion. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2360.93,"endTime":2364.2,"body":"the ventilation conditions at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2360.93,"endTime":2364.2,"body":"which your fire occurs, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2364.29,"endTime":2366.84,"body":"I mean, if we measure that on a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2364.29,"endTime":2366.84,"body":"simple device like a cone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2366.84,"endTime":2371.13,"body":"calorimeter these are like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2366.84,"endTime":2371.13,"body":"fairly small samples in the very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2371.13,"endTime":2374.97,"body":"well ventilated spaces. But in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2371.13,"endTime":2374.97,"body":"reality in fires, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2374.97,"endTime":2378.21,"body":"smoke generated in in a very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2374.97,"endTime":2378.21,"body":"complex turbulent combustion non"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2378.21,"endTime":2381.48,"body":"premixed. And that will lead to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2378.21,"endTime":2381.48,"body":"a completely different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2381.48,"endTime":2384.63,"body":"efficiency of combustion. And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2381.48,"endTime":2384.63,"body":"with the worst efficiency of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2384.63,"endTime":2388.65,"body":"combustion, the more products"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2384.63,"endTime":2388.65,"body":"that can create soot will be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2388.65,"endTime":2393.87,"body":"produced. So this number is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2388.65,"endTime":2393.87,"body":"probably impossible to reach a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2393.87,"endTime":2397.77,"body":"value that would describe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2393.87,"endTime":2397.77,"body":"everything from a physics point"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2397.77,"endTime":2403.11,"body":"of view. And we did that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2397.77,"endTime":2403.11,"body":"backwards from the user point of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2403.11,"endTime":2407.46,"body":"view, like what would be the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2403.11,"endTime":2407.46,"body":"value that would be still"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2408.06,"endTime":2413.67,"body":"reasonable, so between 0.01 and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2408.06,"endTime":2413.67,"body":"0.2, and yet leads to the least"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2413.67,"endTime":2417.93,"body":"user error, while while doing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2413.67,"endTime":2417.93,"body":"that, if you do not have a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2417.93,"endTime":2422.37,"body":"better scientifically sound"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2417.93,"endTime":2422.37,"body":"value,. And this value of soot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2422.37,"endTime":2428.22,"body":"yield 0.1 gram per gram was this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2422.37,"endTime":2428.22,"body":"kind of magical value, if, if"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2428.22,"endTime":2431.25,"body":"you use the larger number, there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2428.22,"endTime":2431.25,"body":"would be barely any difference"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2431.25,"endTime":2436.41,"body":"in your analysis, if you use"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2431.25,"endTime":2436.41,"body":"lesser value, your impact is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2436.41,"endTime":2440.76,"body":"considerable on the outcomes on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2436.41,"endTime":2440.76,"body":"the results of your study. So,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2441.33,"endTime":2445.47,"body":"we figured out, let's give"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2441.33,"endTime":2445.47,"body":"engineers 0.1. It's easy, simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2445.47,"endTime":2450.45,"body":"to remember and, and give safe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2445.47,"endTime":2450.45,"body":"results. And if someone is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2450.45,"endTime":2454.35,"body":"competent enough to, to play"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2450.45,"endTime":2454.35,"body":"with soot yield and explain the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2454.35,"endTime":2457.62,"body":"choice of a different value or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2454.35,"endTime":2457.62,"body":"find a proof of a different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2457.62,"endTime":2461.46,"body":"value, they can do it regardless"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2457.62,"endTime":2461.46,"body":"and probably will do that."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2462.03,"endTime":2466.98,"body":"Yeah. Also, one"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2462.03,"endTime":2466.98,"body":"of the outcome of this is, do"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2466.98,"endTime":2469.74,"body":"you know what you have into that"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2466.98,"endTime":2469.74,"body":"space? Do you know what is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2469.74,"endTime":2474.57,"body":"actually burning? Because if I"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2469.74,"endTime":2474.57,"body":"do have, like, paper storage,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2475.56,"endTime":2479.19,"body":"okay, so I can use paper? Of"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2475.56,"endTime":2479.19,"body":"course, that makes sense. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2479.19,"endTime":2482.85,"body":"so cellulosic material now there"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2479.19,"endTime":2482.85,"body":"will be like, 0.05, I don't"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2482.85,"endTime":2489.78,"body":"know, okay. And that's fine. But"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2482.85,"endTime":2489.78,"body":"it and if I have like, plastic,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2489.93,"endTime":2494.82,"body":"or, you know, I know what I have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2489.93,"endTime":2494.82,"body":"inside, I put what I have"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2494.82,"endTime":2497.91,"body":"inside, but if I don't know, if"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2494.82,"endTime":2497.91,"body":"I have a mixture of everything,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2497.94,"endTime":2498.93,"body":"so be careful."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2500.07,"endTime":2501.99,"body":"Yeah, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2500.07,"endTime":2501.99,"body":"you know, it's also trap,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2501.99,"endTime":2506.16,"body":"because if you say you store a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2501.99,"endTime":2506.16,"body":"paper or you have a shop that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2506.16,"endTime":2512.1,"body":"sells paper, like books or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2506.16,"endTime":2512.1,"body":"something, and your assumption"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2512.1,"endTime":2515.01,"body":"of a very low soot yield could"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2512.1,"endTime":2515.01,"body":"be justified. And the next day"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2515.01,"endTime":2519.12,"body":"someone pulls an armchair inside"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2515.01,"endTime":2519.12,"body":"filled with polyurethane foam."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2519.51,"endTime":2526.2,"body":"And they will not consider is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2519.51,"endTime":2526.2,"body":"this fuel representative for the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2526.2,"endTime":2529.2,"body":"CFD analysis that were used to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2526.2,"endTime":2529.2,"body":"design the smoke control system"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2529.2,"endTime":2533.4,"body":"of the building, because they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2529.2,"endTime":2533.4,"body":"absolutely have no idea about, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2533.4,"endTime":2538.35,"body":"mean, it's safer to use this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2533.4,"endTime":2538.35,"body":"safe value, because it covers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2538.41,"endTime":2542.52,"body":"problems like that. Because even"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2538.41,"endTime":2542.52,"body":"if you use 0.1, and someone puts"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2542.52,"endTime":2546.63,"body":"an archer that would generate,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2542.52,"endTime":2546.63,"body":"let's say 0.17 or something for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2546.66,"endTime":2549.72,"body":"very heavy polyurethane foams,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2546.66,"endTime":2549.72,"body":"it doesn't make a huge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2549.72,"endTime":2552.27,"body":"difference for the outcome of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2549.72,"endTime":2552.27,"body":"your analysis, it would change"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2552.27,"endTime":2555.6,"body":"your available save evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2552.27,"endTime":2555.6,"body":"time by by two or three seconds,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2555.9,"endTime":2559.89,"body":"which means you have not done a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2555.9,"endTime":2559.89,"body":"major mistake estimating that at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2559.89,"endTime":2564.66,"body":"the first place. So yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2559.89,"endTime":2564.66,"body":"think this was I mean, I'm very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2564.66,"endTime":2568.53,"body":"proud of that study. I know,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2564.66,"endTime":2568.53,"body":"it's been cited a lot. And I've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2568.53,"endTime":2571.89,"body":"met many people who who are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2568.53,"endTime":2571.89,"body":"using our value and we're very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2571.89,"endTime":2575.37,"body":"happy with the fact that someone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2571.89,"endTime":2575.37,"body":"has published that and and gave"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2575.37,"endTime":2580.17,"body":"it to them. So I think that was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2575.37,"endTime":2580.17,"body":"a great, great piece of work."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2580.17,"endTime":2583.32,"body":"And a final"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2580.17,"endTime":2583.32,"body":"thing. 0.1 gram per gram"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2583.32,"endTime":2590.79,"body":"corresponds to a normal plastic."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2583.32,"endTime":2590.79,"body":"Okay, so it's not like magic"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2590.79,"endTime":2594.24,"body":"number No, it correspond to"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2590.79,"endTime":2594.24,"body":"something that exists. And makes"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2594.24,"endTime":2594.93,"body":"sense to us."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2595.95,"endTime":2598.41,"body":"Yeah, that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2595.95,"endTime":2598.41,"body":"I mean, this research was was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2598.41,"endTime":2601.11,"body":"pretty interesting. I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2598.41,"endTime":2601.11,"body":"share with you one, one last"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2601.11,"endTime":2606.24,"body":"final item. On this itenirary."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2601.11,"endTime":2606.24,"body":"We've also recently done a very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2606.24,"endTime":2609.99,"body":"interesting research on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2606.24,"endTime":2609.99,"body":"wavelength sensitivity of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2610.29,"endTime":2613.83,"body":"visibility in smoke, and I was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2610.29,"endTime":2613.83,"body":"wondering if that ever caught"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2613.83,"endTime":2617.73,"body":"your attention. Basically, when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2613.83,"endTime":2617.73,"body":"you consider the smoke from a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2618.0,"endTime":2623.67,"body":"science point of view, it's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2618.0,"endTime":2623.67,"body":"bunch of particles hanging in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2623.67,"endTime":2626.7,"body":"the air, and these particles"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2623.67,"endTime":2626.7,"body":"will have different sizes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2626.7,"endTime":2632.91,"body":"shapes, actually, you can most"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2626.7,"endTime":2632.91,"body":"likely distinguish what was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2632.91,"endTime":2637.26,"body":"burning from just knowing what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2632.91,"endTime":2637.26,"body":"is the distribution of particles"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2637.26,"endTime":2643.05,"body":"in your smoke. And because these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2637.26,"endTime":2643.05,"body":"particles will have different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2644.1,"endTime":2649.05,"body":"optical properties related to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2644.1,"endTime":2649.05,"body":"their size, you will end up with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2649.59,"endTime":2654.42,"body":"absorbing or scattering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2649.59,"endTime":2654.42,"body":"different bands of the visible"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2654.42,"endTime":2660.63,"body":"light in a different manner on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2654.42,"endTime":2660.63,"body":"the same smoke. So we know that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2660.66,"endTime":2665.13,"body":"the blue light will be the most"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2660.66,"endTime":2665.13,"body":"absorbed in the in the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2665.13,"endTime":2670.38,"body":"smoke, while the red one will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2665.13,"endTime":2670.38,"body":"will pass it the easiest. So I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2670.38,"endTime":2672.48,"body":"mean, we knew that that it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2670.38,"endTime":2672.48,"body":"that there's gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2672.48,"endTime":2677.43,"body":"difference between them. In our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2672.48,"endTime":2677.43,"body":"engineering, we usually use just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2677.43,"endTime":2681.45,"body":"the general concept of white"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2677.43,"endTime":2681.45,"body":"lights and, and one value of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2681.45,"endTime":2683.73,"body":"specific mass extinction"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2681.45,"endTime":2683.73,"body":"coefficient for everything. We"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2683.73,"endTime":2688.44,"body":"never go into wavelength"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2683.73,"endTime":2688.44,"body":"sensitivity. However, we did"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2688.44,"endTime":2693.87,"body":"that experimentally. We've built"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2688.44,"endTime":2693.87,"body":"a device that measures light"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2693.87,"endTime":2697.77,"body":"extinction coefficient, at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2693.87,"endTime":2697.77,"body":"different wavelengths. It's just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2697.8,"endTime":2701.73,"body":"a bunch of different colored"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2697.8,"endTime":2701.73,"body":"lasers. That are separate from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2701.73,"endTime":2705.45,"body":"each other and they just measure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2701.73,"endTime":2705.45,"body":"the extinction simultaneously."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2706.05,"endTime":2710.04,"body":"And what we what we ended up"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2706.05,"endTime":2710.04,"body":"with is a scatter of visibility"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2710.04,"endTime":2715.2,"body":"in smoke from one single source"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2710.04,"endTime":2715.2,"body":"of heptane from 10 meters or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2715.53,"endTime":2719.43,"body":"even less seven meters for for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2715.53,"endTime":2719.43,"body":"the blue light, while you get"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2719.7,"endTime":2726.45,"body":"something like 15 meters for for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2719.7,"endTime":2726.45,"body":"the far end spectrum of the red"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2726.45,"endTime":2730.32,"body":"light. So, almost a factor of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2726.45,"endTime":2730.32,"body":"two difference in in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2730.32,"endTime":2733.77,"body":"visibility measured by that. I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2730.32,"endTime":2733.77,"body":"was wondering if you ever caught"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2733.77,"endTime":2738.03,"body":"your attention in like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2733.77,"endTime":2738.03,"body":"professional analysis or is it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2738.03,"endTime":2741.36,"body":"something yet exotic for for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2738.03,"endTime":2741.36,"body":"this community?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2742.08,"endTime":2744.33,"body":"Well, definitely"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2742.08,"endTime":2744.33,"body":"yet exotic for for this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2744.33,"endTime":2749.91,"body":"community, I can tell you and I"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2744.33,"endTime":2749.91,"body":"think you're doing a great job"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2749.94,"endTime":2756.12,"body":"in mixing this fire science"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2749.94,"endTime":2756.12,"body":"aproach to what is called"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2756.15,"endTime":2760.83,"body":"spectrophotometry. That is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2756.15,"endTime":2760.83,"body":"another sort of sign that needs"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2760.83,"endTime":2764.61,"body":"to be mixed to understand what"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2760.83,"endTime":2764.61,"body":"is actually happening when"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2764.64,"endTime":2767.88,"body":"evaluating visibility through"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2764.64,"endTime":2767.88,"body":"smoke, because we are really"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2767.88,"endTime":2774.36,"body":"relying on a very simple"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2767.88,"endTime":2774.36,"body":"equation. That Well, according"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2774.36,"endTime":2780.75,"body":"to my my study, the first"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2774.36,"endTime":2780.75,"body":"equation of Bougher-Lambert-Beer"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2781.14,"endTime":2789.75,"body":"was discovered by Pierre Bougher"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2781.14,"endTime":2789.75,"body":"in 1729. Okay, so we are talking"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2789.75,"endTime":2796.17,"body":"about something that have a lot"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2789.75,"endTime":2796.17,"body":"of history. Okay. And we are"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2796.17,"endTime":2801.75,"body":"still stuck on that. And I think"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2796.17,"endTime":2801.75,"body":"what you're doing is a great job"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2801.81,"endTime":2806.67,"body":"in getting this updated. And,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2801.81,"endTime":2806.67,"body":"and improved."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2806.78,"endTime":2809.57,"body":"You know,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2806.78,"endTime":2809.57,"body":"the funny part is that, what I,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2809.87,"endTime":2814.01,"body":"what I'm touching in here with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2809.87,"endTime":2814.01,"body":"my research, is something that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2814.52,"endTime":2818.66,"body":"Jin has already mentioned in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2814.52,"endTime":2818.66,"body":"like, third paper in the 70s. It"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2818.66,"endTime":2821.54,"body":"just never never went into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2818.66,"endTime":2821.54,"body":"mainstream, because he already"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2821.54,"endTime":2825.86,"body":"recognized that the light will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2821.54,"endTime":2825.86,"body":"be consumed by the smoke in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2825.86,"endTime":2828.65,"body":"different manner for four"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2825.86,"endTime":2828.65,"body":"different wavelengths. So it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2828.65,"endTime":2831.5,"body":"something that has been there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2828.65,"endTime":2831.5,"body":"always, it's just, it was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2831.5,"endTime":2835.07,"body":"probably omitted for simplicity."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2831.5,"endTime":2835.07,"body":"I mean, I mean, this theory was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2835.07,"endTime":2838.64,"body":"never deceived for CFD, it was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2835.07,"endTime":2838.64,"body":"it was built for simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2838.64,"endTime":2841.73,"body":"analysis, where you have a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2838.64,"endTime":2841.73,"body":"homogeneous smoke in one huge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2841.73,"endTime":2844.46,"body":"room and you want to estimate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2841.73,"endTime":2844.46,"body":"what would be the visibility in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2844.46,"endTime":2849.17,"body":"that room? Not for someone using"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2844.46,"endTime":2849.17,"body":"that the 50 years later with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2849.17,"endTime":2851.39,"body":"very advanced numerical models,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2849.17,"endTime":2851.39,"body":"right?"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2851.559,"endTime":2854.379,"body":"Yeah, exactly."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2851.559,"endTime":2854.379,"body":"Exactly. You know, we are"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2854.379,"endTime":2859.929,"body":"considering the light come into"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2854.379,"endTime":2859.929,"body":"this piece of something has this"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2860.709,"endTime":2864.879,"body":"particular particles inside and"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2860.709,"endTime":2864.879,"body":"then to get out of that, okay,"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2864.909,"endTime":2868.599,"body":"and we measure how much light is"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2864.909,"endTime":2868.599,"body":"staying there on getting out"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2868.659,"endTime":2874.509,"body":"absorbing or, okay. But we are"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2868.659,"endTime":2874.509,"body":"not actually considering that."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2874.509,"endTime":2876.249,"body":"Well, what is happening into"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2874.509,"endTime":2876.249,"body":"that box."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2876.67,"endTime":2879.19,"body":"Okay,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2876.67,"endTime":2879.19,"body":"Gabrielle, I am mindful of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2879.19,"endTime":2882.88,"body":"time. And I know, you have a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2879.19,"endTime":2882.88,"body":"very busy schedule, and I'm very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2882.88,"endTime":2887.2,"body":"thankful that you found a spot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2882.88,"endTime":2887.2,"body":"for me in it. It was great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2887.23,"endTime":2890.35,"body":"chatting with you and even"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2887.23,"endTime":2890.35,"body":"greater to do the research with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2890.35,"endTime":2894.76,"body":"you. And this is not the last"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2890.35,"endTime":2894.76,"body":"word we've, we've placed on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2894.76,"endTime":2901.21,"body":"visibility in smoke. I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2894.76,"endTime":2901.21,"body":"everyone enjoyed this. Long chat"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2901.24,"endTime":2906.58,"body":"on on the tenability criteria"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2901.24,"endTime":2906.58,"body":"and visibility in smoke. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2906.61,"endTime":2911.29,"body":"yeah, man, thank you. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2906.61,"endTime":2911.29,"body":"so much for being here and see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2911.29,"endTime":2911.92,"body":"you around, man."},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2912.47,"endTime":2914.42,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2912.47,"endTime":2914.42,"body":"much Wojciech. That was"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2914.45,"endTime":2919.58,"body":"fantastic. I'm sure this podcast"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2914.45,"endTime":2919.58,"body":"will be success. So thanks for"},{"speaker":"Gabriele Vigne","startTime":2919.58,"endTime":2920.15,"body":"inviting me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2920.93,"endTime":2923.24,"body":"Yep, that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2920.93,"endTime":2923.24,"body":"it. I told you, it's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2923.24,"endTime":2927.41,"body":"great. I really enjoyed talking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2923.24,"endTime":2927.41,"body":"to Gabriele and it's always fun"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2927.41,"endTime":2932.87,"body":"to recap our previous studies"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2927.41,"endTime":2932.87,"body":"together. It's, it's been so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2932.87,"endTime":2935.9,"body":"many years we've been"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2932.87,"endTime":2935.9,"body":"researching this topic together"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2935.9,"endTime":2941.09,"body":"and every now and then it's fun"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2935.9,"endTime":2941.09,"body":"to chat about it. I hope you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2941.09,"endTime":2944.69,"body":"enjoyed it a lot. I think"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2941.09,"endTime":2944.69,"body":"Gabriell is a fantastic engineer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2944.69,"endTime":2948.65,"body":"and it's worth staying in touch"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2944.69,"endTime":2948.65,"body":"with him. So if you'd like to do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2948.65,"endTime":2953.24,"body":"that Gabrielle is very active on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2948.65,"endTime":2953.24,"body":"Twitter, with his handle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2958.1,"endTime":2965.48,"body":"@Vigne_Gabriele. And his company"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2958.1,"endTime":2965.48,"body":"@JVVAFIRE is also very active,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2965.84,"endTime":2970.34,"body":"and probably his most active on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2965.84,"endTime":2970.34,"body":"LinkedIn. So you want to follow"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2970.34,"endTime":2974.09,"body":"him there. And if you meet him"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2970.34,"endTime":2974.09,"body":"on the conference, make sure you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2974.09,"endTime":2978.08,"body":"go for a beer with him. And he"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2974.09,"endTime":2978.08,"body":"also besides visibility and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2978.08,"endTime":2981.29,"body":"smoke can tell you some quite"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2978.08,"endTime":2981.29,"body":"interesting rock and roll"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2981.29,"endTime":2987.26,"body":"stories from a different career,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2981.29,"endTime":2987.26,"body":"which is absolutely worth it. I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2987.26,"endTime":2991.52,"body":"highly recommend doing that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2987.26,"endTime":2991.52,"body":"Anyway, I hope you've enjoyed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2991.52,"endTime":2996.5,"body":"this episode. And that's that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2991.52,"endTime":2996.5,"body":"it for the first week of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2996.5,"endTime":3000.7,"body":"podcast. I'm more than happy to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":2996.5,"endTime":3000.7,"body":"finally share this content with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3000.7,"endTime":3005.08,"body":"you. And there's gonna be so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3000.7,"endTime":3005.08,"body":"much more coming in in the next"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3005.08,"endTime":3010.57,"body":"weeks. So yeah, look up to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3005.08,"endTime":3010.57,"body":"north, every Wednesday morning,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3010.6,"endTime":3013.45,"body":"because there will be new"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3010.6,"endTime":3013.45,"body":"podcast episode waiting for you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3013.6,"endTime":3017.95,"body":"starting next week with Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3013.6,"endTime":3017.95,"body":"Matthew Boehner, on facades, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3017.95,"endTime":3022.69,"body":"then, so many interesting guests"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3017.95,"endTime":3022.69,"body":"and topics. I'm sure you will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3022.75,"endTime":3027.04,"body":"enjoy them a lot. Make sure you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3022.75,"endTime":3027.04,"body":"subscribe to the podcast on your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3027.04,"endTime":3031.21,"body":"favorite podcast app, make sure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3027.04,"endTime":3031.21,"body":"you sign up to the newsletter."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3031.36,"endTime":3036.43,"body":"And as always, I'll drop all the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3031.36,"endTime":3036.43,"body":"links to the papers and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3036.7,"endTime":3039.43,"body":"interesting things that were"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3036.7,"endTime":3039.43,"body":"mentioned in the episode in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3039.43,"endTime":3044.71,"body":"show notes. So make sure you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3039.43,"endTime":3044.71,"body":"check them out. And yeah, go on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3044.71,"endTime":3049.09,"body":"with your research on tenability"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3044.71,"endTime":3049.09,"body":"criterion visibility in smoke."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3049.3,"endTime":3052.96,"body":"Oh, and look forward to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3049.3,"endTime":3052.96,"body":"paper from the survey. I hope we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3052.96,"endTime":3058.48,"body":"can manage writing it before,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3052.96,"endTime":3058.48,"body":"like September or something. I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3058.48,"endTime":3063.19,"body":"think that's that's the goal. So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3058.48,"endTime":3063.19,"body":"I hope we we meet that and once"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3063.19,"endTime":3066.43,"body":"the paper is ready, and the data"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3063.19,"endTime":3066.43,"body":"is scientifically worked out."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3066.88,"endTime":3070.09,"body":"I'm sure I'm gonna bring more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3066.88,"endTime":3070.09,"body":"people into the podcast. I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3070.09,"endTime":3074.29,"body":"gonna bring Lucas and Wolfram"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3070.09,"endTime":3074.29,"body":"and Gabriele once again, and  t"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3074.29,"endTime":3078.16,"body":"en will give a proper scienti"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3074.29,"endTime":3078.16,"body":"ic discussion on the results of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3078.16,"endTime":3083.53,"body":"he survey. For now, thank you v"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3078.16,"endTime":3083.53,"body":"ry much for being here. An"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3083.53,"endTime":3087.85,"body":"I really appreciate you and ye"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3083.53,"endTime":3087.85,"body":"h, see you around. Thank you v"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wgrzyski","startTime":3087.85,"endTime":3088.3,"body":"ry mu"}]}