{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.03,"endTime":2.31,"body":"\"Get"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.03,"endTime":2.31,"body":"used to wooden skyscrapers."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2.43,"endTime":4.92,"body":"They're stronger, cleaner"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2.43,"endTime":4.92,"body":"and fire resistant.\""},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":6.33,"endTime":8.219,"body":"That's one of the headlines."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":8.61,"endTime":12.75,"body":"I, so in the past years,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":8.61,"endTime":12.75,"body":"treating about the benefits"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":12.809,"endTime":16.19,"body":"of timber structures used"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":12.809,"endTime":16.19,"body":"for, very challenging"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":16.19,"endTime":17.36,"body":"engineering projects."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":18.11,"endTime":23.39,"body":"And as most of them do they give"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":18.11,"endTime":23.39,"body":"you this hint that the timber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":23.39,"endTime":25.189,"body":"is the material of the future."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":26.085,"endTime":29.685,"body":"Because we have soft of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":26.085,"endTime":29.685,"body":"mobility problem and all of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":29.685,"endTime":34.725,"body":"his other benefits are kind"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":29.685,"endTime":34.725,"body":"of obvious this kind of lines."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":34.725,"endTime":38.785,"body":"And  not, not because they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":34.725,"endTime":38.785,"body":"are plain wrong because in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.835,"endTime":42.285,"body":"some aspects, the wood can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.835,"endTime":42.285,"body":"really outperform seal."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":42.765,"endTime":47.115,"body":"It's just this cherry picking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":42.765,"endTime":47.115,"body":"of a single metric and building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":47.115,"endTime":48.705,"body":"the whole narrative around it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":49.565,"endTime":51.964,"body":"Feels like building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":49.565,"endTime":51.964,"body":"something really not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":51.964,"endTime":53.404,"body":"safe and not sustainable."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":53.464,"endTime":56.285,"body":"And certainly it's not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":53.464,"endTime":56.285,"body":"doing much good for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":56.285,"endTime":57.395,"body":"the timber industry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":58.654,"endTime":62.014,"body":"If you want to learn,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":58.654,"endTime":62.014,"body":"what do we need to do?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":62.225,"endTime":64.805,"body":"You probably should start"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":62.225,"endTime":64.805,"body":"with the landmark paper by"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":65.225,"endTime":66.695,"body":"Angus Law and Rory Hadden."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":66.965,"endTime":69.995,"body":"We need to talk about timber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":66.965,"endTime":69.995,"body":"and I agree with them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.085,"endTime":73.985,"body":".We truly need to talk about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.085,"endTime":73.985,"body":"timber and we need to talk about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":73.985,"endTime":77.465,"body":"it with competent people and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":73.985,"endTime":77.465,"body":"has the kind of person I got."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":78.285,"endTime":83.445,"body":"Today is a brilliant young"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":78.285,"endTime":83.445,"body":"structural fire engineer about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":83.445,"endTime":86.865,"body":"to be editor of structural"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":83.445,"endTime":86.865,"body":"fire engineering handbook"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.925,"endTime":92.175,"body":"by SFPE um, he's done his"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.925,"endTime":92.175,"body":"PhD in timber in fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":92.175,"endTime":95.505,"body":"So he's more than competent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":92.175,"endTime":95.505,"body":"to talk about this subject."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":95.505,"endTime":99.765,"body":"Today is also probably the best,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":95.505,"endTime":99.765,"body":"um, rugby player among fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":99.765,"endTime":102.465,"body":"engineers and the best fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":99.765,"endTime":102.465,"body":"engineer among rugby players."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":102.515,"endTime":104.405,"body":"So, yeah, please"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":102.515,"endTime":104.405,"body":"help me welcome Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":104.405,"endTime":106.705,"body":"Danny Hopkin from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":104.405,"endTime":106.705,"body":"OFR Consultants."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":107.074,"endTime":109.114,"body":"And let's talk about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":107.074,"endTime":109.114,"body":"timber with Danny."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":132.469,"endTime":133.159,"body":"Hello everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.159,"endTime":133.639,"body":"Welcome."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.849,"endTime":135.859,"body":"I'm here today with Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":135.859,"endTime":138.709,"body":"Danny Hopkin from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":135.859,"endTime":138.709,"body":"OFR consultants."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":138.769,"endTime":139.339,"body":"Hi, Danny."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":139.392,"endTime":140.202,"body":"good morning."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":140.472,"endTime":141.042,"body":"Hi Wojciech."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":141.882,"endTime":143.592,"body":"Great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":141.882,"endTime":143.592,"body":"to great to have you here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":143.772,"endTime":147.762,"body":"So, Danny, how did you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":143.772,"endTime":147.762,"body":"become a fire engineer?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":147.792,"endTime":149.142,"body":"I heard that's a good story."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":150.052,"endTime":152.922,"body":"Perhaps"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":150.052,"endTime":152.922,"body":"I've  oversold the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":152.922,"endTime":154.042,"body":"quality of the story."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":154.252,"endTime":155.052,"body":"If I'm honest."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":156.212,"endTime":159.102,"body":"But as a teenager, my"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":156.212,"endTime":159.102,"body":"only real interest in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":159.102,"endTime":161.742,"body":"world was chasing a rugby"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":159.102,"endTime":161.742,"body":"ball around the field."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":161.892,"endTime":166.102,"body":"But, uh, I grew up about"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":161.892,"endTime":166.102,"body":"five miles away from from"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":166.182,"endTime":169.012,"body":"silverstone  circuit in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":166.182,"endTime":169.012,"body":"UK, which is sort of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":169.012,"endTime":170.642,"body":"home of British motor sport."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":170.712,"endTime":174.522,"body":"My hometown is actually"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":170.712,"endTime":174.522,"body":"home to Mercedes GP."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":174.642,"endTime":177.425,"body":"Growing up, the engineering"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":174.642,"endTime":177.425,"body":"thing for me was all about"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":177.425,"endTime":179.775,"body":"automotive and an aeronautics."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":179.915,"endTime":184.575,"body":"I was quite interested in sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":179.915,"endTime":184.575,"body":"of moving into formula one, but"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":184.655,"endTime":188.645,"body":"through the wisdom of my dad, he"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":184.655,"endTime":188.645,"body":"suggested look, okay, you could"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":188.645,"endTime":191.945,"body":"go and study civil engineering"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":188.645,"endTime":191.945,"body":"instead because they might give"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":191.945,"endTime":194.465,"body":"you some kind of studentship"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":191.945,"endTime":194.465,"body":"because it's not as popular."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":195.105,"endTime":198.735,"body":"And so that combined with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":195.105,"endTime":198.735,"body":"the interest in rugby."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":199.62,"endTime":202.02,"body":"Let me to Loughborough"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":199.62,"endTime":202.02,"body":"university, cause I could"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":202.02,"endTime":205.59,"body":"double up on sport and an"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":202.02,"endTime":205.59,"body":"engineering and one go."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":206.29,"endTime":209.14,"body":"So I actually worked my way"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":206.29,"endTime":209.14,"body":"through a civil engineering"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":209.14,"endTime":213.16,"body":"degree over what was four"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":209.14,"endTime":213.16,"body":"years and did absolutely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":213.16,"endTime":214.3,"body":"nothing to do with fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":214.3,"endTime":218.28,"body":"I was completely intent on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":214.3,"endTime":218.28,"body":"becoming a sort of a run"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":218.28,"endTime":219.1,"body":"of the mill if you like."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":219.12,"endTime":221.31,"body":"And probably a, quite an"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":219.12,"endTime":221.31,"body":"average structural engineer."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":222.45,"endTime":227.534,"body":"But  my personal tutor was a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":222.45,"endTime":227.534,"body":"guy called Jamala Romare and he"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":227.534,"endTime":231.464,"body":"was one of Ian Burgess and Roger"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":227.534,"endTime":231.464,"body":"Planks, first PhD students."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":231.464,"endTime":234.824,"body":"And he worked on what was"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":231.464,"endTime":234.824,"body":"kind of the early version of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":234.824,"endTime":237.344,"body":"the Vulcan finite elements,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":234.824,"endTime":237.344,"body":"software that so many people"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":237.344,"endTime":240.614,"body":"now use for modeling frames"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":237.344,"endTime":240.614,"body":"and tensile membrane action"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":240.614,"endTime":241.664,"body":"and all that good stuff."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":242.334,"endTime":244.354,"body":"So he got me to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":242.334,"endTime":244.354,"body":"do a dissertation."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":244.404,"endTime":247.524,"body":"It was the effect of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":244.404,"endTime":247.524,"body":"heating, concrete structures."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":248.314,"endTime":251.314,"body":"And that sort of led me"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":248.314,"endTime":251.314,"body":"down the path of, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":251.776,"endTime":253.892,"body":"Touch on a topic like that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":251.776,"endTime":253.892,"body":"without seeing everything that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":253.892,"endTime":257.262,"body":"Bre had done in that space"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":253.892,"endTime":257.262,"body":"at particularly a Cardington."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":257.325,"endTime":261.215,"body":"And so I kind of last minute"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":257.325,"endTime":261.215,"body":"having had some offers to go"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":261.215,"endTime":264.069,"body":"into structure engineering,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":261.215,"endTime":264.069,"body":"applied to Bre just on the off"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":264.069,"endTime":265.539,"body":"chance that they might take me."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":265.539,"endTime":268.299,"body":"And they said, yes, and not only"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":265.539,"endTime":268.299,"body":"that they would they would fund"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":268.839,"endTime":270.009,"body":"some further research on me."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":270.039,"endTime":273.229,"body":"So that's how I ended up doing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":270.039,"endTime":273.229,"body":"my PhD, which was on the fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":273.239,"endTime":274.519,"body":"performance engineer, timber."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":275.359,"endTime":279.499,"body":"And that PhD was completely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":275.359,"endTime":279.499,"body":"a matter of convenience."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":279.529,"endTime":282.509,"body":"I wanted to do something on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":279.529,"endTime":282.509,"body":"steel and concrete but we had"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":282.509,"endTime":285.479,"body":"funding at the time to look"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":282.509,"endTime":285.479,"body":"at timber from some government"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":285.479,"endTime":286.709,"body":"research projects that we had."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":286.709,"endTime":290.219,"body":"So sort of upset for the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":286.709,"endTime":290.219,"body":"convenient option of being able"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":290.219,"endTime":293.379,"body":"to research something, but with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":290.219,"endTime":293.379,"body":"a healthy pot of money to burn"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":293.379,"endTime":294.789,"body":"lots of different compartments."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":294.889,"endTime":299.089,"body":"And so it was a series of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":294.889,"endTime":299.089,"body":"almost accidental decisions"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":299.319,"endTime":301.759,"body":"that have gotten me to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":299.319,"endTime":301.759,"body":"the point of being a fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":301.769,"endTime":304.759,"body":"engineer, which is probably"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":301.769,"endTime":304.759,"body":"a familiar story for many."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":304.864,"endTime":305.964,"body":"Oh, it's you would not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":305.964,"endTime":307.914,"body":"believe how familiar it is."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":307.964,"endTime":310.724,"body":"And it also confirms the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":307.964,"endTime":310.724,"body":"theory of Kees Both that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":310.754,"endTime":313.664,"body":"once you entered the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":310.754,"endTime":313.664,"body":"lab, there is no, no way out."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":314.174,"endTime":315.014,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":315.014,"endTime":315.284,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":315.284,"endTime":317.954,"body":", once I was at BRE I was kind"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":315.284,"endTime":317.954,"body":"of on this path to become"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":317.954,"endTime":319.424,"body":"a fire safety engineer."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":319.634,"endTime":323.374,"body":"Albeit I've, I've kind of stayed"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":319.634,"endTime":323.374,"body":"mainly within the arena of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":323.514,"endTime":327.264,"body":"structural fire safety, which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":323.514,"endTime":327.264,"body":"is where I operate today at OFR."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":327.869,"endTime":327.959,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":328.339,"endTime":331.269,"body":"So yeah, if you kept the rugby"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":328.339,"endTime":331.269,"body":"career, we would probably"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":331.269,"endTime":332.499,"body":"be on a different podcast,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":332.529,"endTime":335.739,"body":"I'd probably have,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":332.529,"endTime":335.739,"body":"have quite serious concussions"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":335.739,"endTime":338.709,"body":"and would currently be I would"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":335.739,"endTime":338.709,"body":"be at the point of retiring"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":338.759,"endTime":343.469,"body":"if not having done so already"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":338.759,"endTime":343.469,"body":"looking for another job Right."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":343.739,"endTime":345.779,"body":"But yeah, I think ultimately"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":343.739,"endTime":345.779,"body":"it was a good choice."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":345.829,"endTime":346.089,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":346.099,"endTime":349.969,"body":"I'm very happy that you went"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":346.099,"endTime":349.969,"body":"into fire performance of timber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":349.999,"endTime":353.169,"body":"And and because of that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":349.999,"endTime":353.169,"body":"I can ask you some very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":353.169,"endTime":354.489,"body":"important questions today."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":354.489,"endTime":357.639,"body":"Like can jet fuel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":354.489,"endTime":357.639,"body":"melt timber beams?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":359.309,"endTime":360.089,"body":"well, I'm not sure."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":360.579,"endTime":362.819,"body":"I'm not sure that the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":360.579,"endTime":362.819,"body":"metal thing is the problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":362.819,"endTime":363.059,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":364.379,"endTime":365.749,"body":"No, but yeah lets drop"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":365.749,"endTime":366.739,"body":"the conspiracy theories."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":366.739,"endTime":368.939,"body":"Let's go into proper"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":366.739,"endTime":368.939,"body":"fire engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":368.982,"endTime":370.292,"body":"So, structural timber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":370.592,"endTime":374.362,"body":"It seems we've went the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":370.592,"endTime":374.362,"body":"circle as civilization in a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":374.362,"endTime":380.682,"body":"way turning away from wood when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":374.362,"endTime":380.682,"body":"during the war, it was extremely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":381.072,"endTime":384.732,"body":"easy to destroy whole cities"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":381.072,"endTime":384.732,"body":"by setting them on fire, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":384.732,"endTime":390.012,"body":"then some mass conflagrations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":384.732,"endTime":390.012,"body":"that devoured whole cities a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":390.012,"endTime":393.642,"body":"movement towards incombustible"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":390.012,"endTime":393.642,"body":"materials, modern materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":393.642,"endTime":396.132,"body":"of the time concrete and."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":397.377,"endTime":399.687,"body":"And then the Renaissance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":397.377,"endTime":399.687,"body":"of concrete in fifties"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":400.017,"endTime":404.531,"body":"steel structures, modern"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":400.017,"endTime":404.531,"body":"buildings build as extremely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":404.531,"endTime":408.031,"body":"complex arrays of glass,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":404.531,"endTime":408.031,"body":"concrete, and steel."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":408.481,"endTime":411.901,"body":"And now all I see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":408.481,"endTime":411.901,"body":"is can we build new"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":411.901,"endTime":413.131,"body":"skyscraper from timber?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":413.187,"endTime":414.687,"body":"Can we go back to this?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":414.717,"endTime":415.797,"body":"Uh, let's say old ways."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":415.797,"endTime":417.837,"body":"It's not old ways"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":415.797,"endTime":417.837,"body":"because the timber is now"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":417.867,"endTime":421.237,"body":"engineered, but it's this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":417.867,"endTime":421.237,"body":"in a way, a full circle."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":421.537,"endTime":423.027,"body":"So what's the hype about?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":423.027,"endTime":425.947,"body":"And why are we ending"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":423.027,"endTime":425.947,"body":"up in this point now"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":425.977,"endTime":427.417,"body":"and why it's inevitable."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":427.687,"endTime":429.727,"body":"It's only going to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":427.687,"endTime":429.727,"body":"increasingly in the future,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":429.834,"endTime":430.194,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":430.224,"endTime":432.794,"body":"It's I think it's for a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":430.224,"endTime":432.794,"body":"few different reasons."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":432.844,"endTime":435.544,"body":"The complexity of buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":432.844,"endTime":435.544,"body":"that we're now talking about"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":435.544,"endTime":437.794,"body":"is substantially different"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":435.544,"endTime":437.794,"body":"to what we were originally"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":437.794,"endTime":443.684,"body":"building with solid timber back"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":437.794,"endTime":443.684,"body":"in that sort of pre-war period."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":443.764,"endTime":445.844,"body":"Uh, I think the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":443.764,"endTime":445.844,"body":"obvious motivation is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":445.954,"endTime":447.124,"body":"the climate change."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":447.154,"endTime":447.214,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":447.934,"endTime":449.794,"body":"We have a climate emergency."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":449.794,"endTime":451.054,"body":"Everybody appreciates it."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":451.054,"endTime":453.704,"body":"It's it's a massive"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":451.054,"endTime":453.704,"body":"challenge for humanity"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":453.714,"endTime":456.964,"body":"and the built environment"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":453.714,"endTime":456.964,"body":"is one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":456.964,"endTime":459.934,"body":"contributors to that carbon."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":460.714,"endTime":464.284,"body":"And so when you're dealing with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":460.714,"endTime":464.284,"body":"a steel or a concrete building,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":464.314,"endTime":467.654,"body":"what you're actually you've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":464.314,"endTime":467.654,"body":"got a huge amount of embodied"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":467.654,"endTime":470.384,"body":"carbon in those materials and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":467.654,"endTime":470.384,"body":"actually manufacturing them."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":471.114,"endTime":475.884,"body":"But with timber, you can tend"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":471.114,"endTime":475.884,"body":"towards net zero if no sort of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":475.884,"endTime":479.764,"body":"negative carbon values because"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":475.884,"endTime":479.764,"body":"trees absorb carbon from"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":479.764,"endTime":480.814,"body":"the atmosphere as they grow."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":480.814,"endTime":483.934,"body":"If you cut them down, you have"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":480.814,"endTime":483.934,"body":"to plant more, more trees grow,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":483.934,"endTime":487.824,"body":"they absorb more carbon and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":483.934,"endTime":487.824,"body":"you get into this, this nice"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":488.014,"endTime":491.934,"body":"cycle of of addressing this sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":488.014,"endTime":491.934,"body":"of ever increasing amount of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":491.934,"endTime":493.164,"body":"carbon in the built environment."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":493.864,"endTime":497.854,"body":"So there's the obvious sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":493.864,"endTime":497.854,"body":"of climate based motivations"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":497.854,"endTime":498.754,"body":"to build more with timber."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":498.754,"endTime":502.334,"body":"And that's what I hear first"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":498.754,"endTime":502.334,"body":"and foremost as being a driver,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":503.084,"endTime":506.384,"body":"um, but also kind of allied"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":503.084,"endTime":506.384,"body":"to that, particularly in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":506.384,"endTime":510.254,"body":"UK, we have, we have quite an"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":506.384,"endTime":510.254,"body":"old building stock, I suppose."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":510.304,"endTime":513.484,"body":"And we have the option sometimes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":510.304,"endTime":513.484,"body":"of knocking a building down"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":513.544,"endTime":516.754,"body":"and building a new one, or"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":513.544,"endTime":516.754,"body":"sometimes we can extend those"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":516.754,"endTime":519.604,"body":"buildings or we can build over"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":516.754,"endTime":519.604,"body":"the top of stations, train"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":519.604,"endTime":520.654,"body":"stations and things like that."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":521.434,"endTime":524.584,"body":"And there's a quite a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":521.434,"endTime":524.584,"body":"lightweight material."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":524.884,"endTime":528.154,"body":"Adding extra stories to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":524.884,"endTime":528.154,"body":"buildings with the timber is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":528.184,"endTime":532.324,"body":"becomes a really good option"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":528.184,"endTime":532.324,"body":"for making better use of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":532.324,"endTime":533.854,"body":"space you have available to you."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":534.394,"endTime":537.154,"body":"And not necessarily having"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":534.394,"endTime":537.154,"body":"to knock buildings down, you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":537.154,"endTime":540.514,"body":"can extend them and refurbish"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":537.154,"endTime":540.514,"body":"them without necessarily"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":540.514,"endTime":543.634,"body":"paying massive additional"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":540.514,"endTime":543.634,"body":"forces on the foundations"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":543.664,"endTime":544.864,"body":"that you've inherited."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":545.684,"endTime":549.124,"body":"Reuse and repurpose in buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":545.684,"endTime":549.124,"body":"along with the climate aspect"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":549.124,"endTime":550.774,"body":"is definitely what's driving it."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":550.804,"endTime":554.124,"body":"And then you've got the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":550.804,"endTime":554.124,"body":"technological advances which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":554.124,"endTime":557.394,"body":"have been huge when you've got a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":554.124,"endTime":557.394,"body":"solid piece of wood you inherit"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":557.804,"endTime":559.424,"body":"a huge amount of imperfections."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":559.564,"endTime":561.374,"body":"Is it's a natural material."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":561.374,"endTime":564.854,"body":"You've got knots, you've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":561.374,"endTime":564.854,"body":"got variations in how the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":564.854,"endTime":566.324,"body":"grain develops, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":566.444,"endTime":569.204,"body":"And with engineered products,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":566.444,"endTime":569.204,"body":"what you can do is you can"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":569.234,"endTime":572.474,"body":"kind of take the best strongest"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":569.234,"endTime":572.474,"body":"bits of wood you can glue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":572.474,"endTime":573.644,"body":"them or bond them together."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":573.644,"endTime":577.264,"body":"And you get a far more stable"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":573.644,"endTime":577.264,"body":"homogeneous material that, that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":577.274,"endTime":580.094,"body":"is stronger and more predictable"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":577.274,"endTime":580.094,"body":"in terms of what it does."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":580.614,"endTime":583.224,"body":"And that allows you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":580.614,"endTime":583.224,"body":"to go to places that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":583.294,"endTime":584.424,"body":"you can be previously."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":584.424,"endTime":588.124,"body":"Things are cross laminated,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":584.424,"endTime":588.124,"body":"timber, glulam, LVL they're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":588.124,"endTime":591.364,"body":"all products that allow"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":588.124,"endTime":591.364,"body":"you to think about building"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":591.394,"endTime":592.474,"body":"tall buildings out of wood."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":592.714,"endTime":595.414,"body":"It wouldn't have been feasible"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":592.714,"endTime":595.414,"body":"if you were just using"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":595.414,"endTime":596.674,"body":"solid sections of timber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":597.189,"endTime":600.914,"body":"I'm, let's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":597.189,"endTime":600.914,"body":"say large, um, advocate for the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":600.914,"endTime":605.444,"body":"change in the climate policies"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":600.914,"endTime":605.444,"body":"and the way how we consume"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":605.444,"endTime":609.234,"body":"the resources of the planet,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":605.444,"endTime":609.234,"body":"regarding timber seriously,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":609.234,"endTime":612.474,"body":"I'm not sure if I, you know,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":609.234,"endTime":612.474,"body":"building the next headquarters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":612.474,"endTime":616.684,"body":"of a global mega corporation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":612.474,"endTime":616.684,"body":"with timber, instead of concrete"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":616.684,"endTime":617.914,"body":"is the way to save the planet."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.944,"endTime":621.314,"body":"Probably like getting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.944,"endTime":621.314,"body":"rid of the corporations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":621.314,"endTime":623.414,"body":"with maybe,  but yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":623.474,"endTime":627.804,"body":"It is a way to, to test and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":623.474,"endTime":627.804,"body":"promote new technology, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":627.804,"endTime":632.604,"body":"eventually going into mass"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":627.804,"endTime":632.604,"body":"use could make this a major"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":632.604,"endTime":635.944,"body":"difference in what we consume"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":632.604,"endTime":635.944,"body":"while building the buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":636.624,"endTime":638.944,"body":"But the second thing you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":636.624,"endTime":638.944,"body":"mentioned,  lightweightness"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":638.944,"endTime":641.584,"body":"of it, the ability to adapt"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":638.944,"endTime":641.584,"body":"the existing buildings,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":641.944,"endTime":642.964,"body":"improve their features."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":643.044,"endTime":647.034,"body":"That's really interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":643.044,"endTime":647.034,"body":"because re adaptation of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":647.034,"endTime":651.234,"body":"buildings in changing the way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":647.034,"endTime":651.234,"body":"they are used, improving them"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":651.624,"endTime":653.484,"body":"is much more cost-effective"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":651.624,"endTime":653.484,"body":"than building a second"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":653.484,"endTime":655.404,"body":"building next to it, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":653.484,"endTime":655.404,"body":"have to fill the same roles."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":655.714,"endTime":658.824,"body":"I see there is a future in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":655.714,"endTime":658.824,"body":"that, and this engineered"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":658.824,"endTime":662.094,"body":"timber products may, may really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":658.824,"endTime":662.094,"body":"be an answer to the needs."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":663.369,"endTime":664.239,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":664.239,"endTime":667.359,"body":"And you go back to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":664.239,"endTime":667.359,"body":"sort of embodied carbon"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":667.429,"endTime":670.609,"body":"discussion demolishing a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":667.429,"endTime":670.609,"body":"building is not a particularly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":670.609,"endTime":672.619,"body":"sustainable way to construct."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":672.659,"endTime":675.779,"body":"You effectively have to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":672.659,"endTime":675.779,"body":"replace a lot of that material."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":675.779,"endTime":678.869,"body":"That's sort of already had a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":675.779,"endTime":678.869,"body":"huge amount of embodied carbon."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":678.869,"endTime":681.643,"body":"So, yeah, you've got some RIBA"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":678.869,"endTime":681.643,"body":"campaigns, Royal Institute"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":681.643,"endTime":683.863,"body":"of British Architects"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":681.643,"endTime":683.863,"body":"that are asking people to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":683.863,"endTime":687.328,"body":"prioritize refurbishment"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":683.863,"endTime":687.328,"body":"and reuse over demolition."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":687.438,"endTime":689.738,"body":"And if you can extend"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":687.438,"endTime":689.738,"body":"your building within the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":689.738,"endTime":692.318,"body":"constraints of your existing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":689.738,"endTime":692.318,"body":"foundations or whatever,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":692.318,"endTime":694.268,"body":"it might be using something"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":692.318,"endTime":694.268,"body":"like mass timber, that's,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":694.628,"endTime":697.388,"body":"that's obviously preferential"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":694.628,"endTime":697.388,"body":"to knocking something down."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":698.948,"endTime":701.258,"body":"And to just to touch"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":698.948,"endTime":701.258,"body":"on that sort of global"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":701.258,"endTime":702.858,"body":"corporations point yes."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":702.888,"endTime":706.248,"body":"There are a lot of organizations"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":702.888,"endTime":706.248,"body":"like Google, for example, that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":706.248,"endTime":709.258,"body":"their headquarters in London"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":706.248,"endTime":709.258,"body":"is there's a hybrid building"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":709.258,"endTime":712.928,"body":"that skirts some CLT in it but"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":709.258,"endTime":712.928,"body":"actually mass timber can make"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":712.928,"endTime":716.618,"body":"a pretty big difference in,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":712.928,"endTime":716.618,"body":"in sort of low to medium rise."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":716.668,"endTime":718.648,"body":"Residential buildings where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":716.668,"endTime":718.648,"body":"we're actually, we have"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":718.648,"endTime":721.288,"body":"a housing shortage, so we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":718.648,"endTime":721.288,"body":"are going to have to build"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":721.288,"endTime":724.518,"body":"something and potentially"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":721.288,"endTime":724.518,"body":"using more mass timber in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":724.518,"endTime":727.698,"body":"that less sort of glamorous"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":724.518,"endTime":727.698,"body":"space of buildings is where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":727.758,"endTime":731.128,"body":"you'd make a true difference"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":727.758,"endTime":731.128,"body":"in, in terms of climate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":731.853,"endTime":733.923,"body":"There's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":731.853,"endTime":733.923,"body":"also some improvements"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":733.923,"endTime":737.123,"body":"in the whole technology,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":733.923,"endTime":737.123,"body":"how buildings are built."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":737.203,"endTime":739.363,"body":"I mean the timber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":737.203,"endTime":739.363,"body":"comes from a factory."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":739.363,"endTime":741.643,"body":"I know that because I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":739.363,"endTime":741.643,"body":"receiving a mass shipment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":741.643,"endTime":746.183,"body":"of CLT next week, I know"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":741.643,"endTime":746.183,"body":"the logistics being behind"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":746.223,"endTime":747.943,"body":"unpacking 30 tons of wood now."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":748.973,"endTime":751.573,"body":"But for a construction yard,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":748.973,"endTime":751.573,"body":"that may be actually easier"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":751.573,"endTime":755.003,"body":"than unpacking 30 tons of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":751.573,"endTime":755.003,"body":"concrete and pouring it upwards."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":755.023,"endTime":759.423,"body":"The process seems  streamlined,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":755.023,"endTime":759.423,"body":"and since a lot of this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":759.663,"endTime":763.463,"body":"comes preassembled, you get"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":759.663,"endTime":763.463,"body":"these benefits of factory"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":763.463,"endTime":766.243,"body":"accuracy  in building the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":763.463,"endTime":766.243,"body":"elements right in crafting."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":766.993,"endTime":767.893,"body":"Yeah, that's right."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":767.893,"endTime":771.633,"body":"So something like CLT is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":767.893,"endTime":771.633,"body":"arriving from an offsite"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":771.633,"endTime":774.573,"body":"manufacturing facility is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":771.633,"endTime":774.573,"body":"quite often cut to them."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":775.308,"endTime":778.338,"body":"The exact dimensions that you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":775.308,"endTime":778.338,"body":"specify for your building."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":779.028,"endTime":781.298,"body":"If you're dealing with some,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":779.028,"endTime":781.298,"body":"I like London actually were"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":781.658,"endTime":784.418,"body":"sort of blocking the roads"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":781.658,"endTime":784.418,"body":"with lorries to unload"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":784.418,"endTime":785.998,"body":"stuff, is really problematic."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":786.028,"endTime":789.268,"body":"If you're really constrained"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":786.028,"endTime":789.268,"body":"sites, then fewer deliveries"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":789.268,"endTime":792.568,"body":"with quicker unloading of those"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":789.268,"endTime":792.568,"body":"trucks is obviously a huge"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":792.568,"endTime":795.238,"body":"advantage that comes with,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":792.568,"endTime":795.238,"body":"with building with timber."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":795.238,"endTime":795.658,"body":"For sure."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":796.503,"endTime":798.723,"body":"Obviously"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":796.503,"endTime":798.723,"body":"there are a lot of pros of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":798.753,"endTime":800.243,"body":"building building with timber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":800.693,"endTime":803.213,"body":"Now, the obvious cons"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":800.693,"endTime":803.213,"body":"is that a, it burns."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":803.613,"endTime":807.343,"body":"That's quite a tricky challenge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":803.613,"endTime":807.343,"body":"every now and then you see these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":807.883,"endTime":811.093,"body":"articles in papers that wood"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":807.883,"endTime":811.093,"body":"is more fire resistant than"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":811.093,"endTime":814.723,"body":"steel or stuff like that, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":811.093,"endTime":814.723,"body":"you reach, I personally hate."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":815.233,"endTime":817.863,"body":"But, I mean there, there is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":815.233,"endTime":817.863,"body":"something, that wood burns."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":817.953,"endTime":818.973,"body":"That's the point."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":819.393,"endTime":823.143,"body":"And, we have to create,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":819.393,"endTime":823.143,"body":"reasonable future with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":823.183,"endTime":826.693,"body":"engineered timber products as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":823.183,"endTime":826.693,"body":"a material for our buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":827.383,"endTime":830.173,"body":"We cannot pretend it does"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":827.383,"endTime":830.173,"body":"not burn because it burns."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":830.593,"endTime":835.073,"body":"We need to find a way how to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":830.593,"endTime":835.073,"body":"manage the risks around it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":835.683,"endTime":840.439,"body":"What's your point on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":835.683,"endTime":840.439,"body":"achieving the acceptable risk."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":840.649,"endTime":845.589,"body":"What is the path forward"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":840.649,"endTime":845.589,"body":"to have an reasonable risk,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":845.589,"endTime":849.866,"body":"estimation and acceptance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":845.589,"endTime":849.866,"body":"criteria that will let a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":849.876,"endTime":854.996,"body":"person which is not engineered"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":849.876,"endTime":854.996,"body":"wood or risk expert, take a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":855.086,"endTime":857.966,"body":"reasonable decision that, okay,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":855.086,"endTime":857.966,"body":"this is fit for my project."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":858.174,"endTime":860.504,"body":"And that's a,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":858.174,"endTime":860.504,"body":"it's a really huge question."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":860.684,"endTime":863.174,"body":"I would start by saying we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":860.684,"endTime":863.174,"body":"started building buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":863.174,"endTime":866.264,"body":"that we couldn't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":863.174,"endTime":866.264,"body":"evidence the performance"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":866.264,"endTime":867.604,"body":"of with mass timber week."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":867.604,"endTime":870.264,"body":"We kind of ran before"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":867.604,"endTime":870.264,"body":"we could walk with, with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":870.334,"endTime":871.194,"body":"some of the things that."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":871.704,"endTime":875.884,"body":"very cellularized CLT apartment"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":871.704,"endTime":875.884,"body":"buildings have lots of exposed"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":875.884,"endTime":879.774,"body":"surface area are kind of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":875.884,"endTime":879.774,"body":"perfect storm for for a fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":879.774,"endTime":882.744,"body":"This is not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":879.774,"endTime":882.744,"body":"going to extinguish before"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":882.744,"endTime":884.574,"body":"we put for your structure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":882.744,"endTime":884.574,"body":"potentially fails."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":885.304,"endTime":891.084,"body":"So the first challenge I guess,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":885.304,"endTime":891.084,"body":"is in understanding the remit of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":891.084,"endTime":893.944,"body":"the common codes and standards"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":891.084,"endTime":893.944,"body":"that we apply in design."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":893.994,"endTime":896.754,"body":"And I think a real challenge"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":893.994,"endTime":896.754,"body":"is the competency of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":896.754,"endTime":898.824,"body":"people designing buildings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":898.558,"endTime":902.468,"body":"So we have codes and standards"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":898.558,"endTime":902.468,"body":"that in their origin of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":902.698,"endTime":905.663,"body":"come from non-combustible"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":902.698,"endTime":905.663,"body":"buildings that they were"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":905.713,"endTime":908.293,"body":"designed to deliver an"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":905.713,"endTime":908.293,"body":"adequate level of safety"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":908.773,"endTime":912.373,"body":"for concrete enclosures, for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":908.773,"endTime":912.373,"body":"steel frames, for brick work,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":912.373,"endTime":913.843,"body":"for other forms of masonry."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":913.893,"endTime":917.133,"body":"And so a lot of concepts we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":913.893,"endTime":917.133,"body":"have in building design things"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":917.133,"endTime":921.203,"body":"like fire resistance, as you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":917.133,"endTime":921.203,"body":"mentioned are premised on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":921.203,"endTime":924.523,"body":"the structure not becoming"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":921.203,"endTime":924.523,"body":"involved as a source of fuel."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":924.764,"endTime":927.746,"body":"The very early mass timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":924.764,"endTime":927.746,"body":"buildings, particularly in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":927.746,"endTime":932.146,"body":"the UK kind of assumed that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":927.746,"endTime":932.146,"body":"those rules and guidance"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":932.146,"endTime":935.266,"body":"that apply for structures"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":932.146,"endTime":935.266,"body":"that don't burn can simply"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":935.266,"endTime":939.106,"body":"be extrapolated to structures"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":935.266,"endTime":939.106,"body":"where they're contributing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":939.106,"endTime":940.006,"body":"as a source of fuel."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":940.096,"endTime":942.816,"body":"And we know that's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":940.096,"endTime":942.816,"body":"not true, and there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":942.816,"endTime":944.576,"body":"been some great papers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":942.816,"endTime":944.576,"body":"have been written on it."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":944.606,"endTime":948.206,"body":"You've got the \"We need to talk"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":944.606,"endTime":948.206,"body":"about timber\" a lecture by Angus"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":948.266,"endTime":950.966,"body":"Law and the corresponding paper"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":948.266,"endTime":950.966,"body":"in the structural engineer."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":951.766,"endTime":954.726,"body":"So the first challenge"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":951.766,"endTime":954.726,"body":"has been in educating"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":954.726,"endTime":956.246,"body":"people and understanding."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":956.946,"endTime":959.436,"body":"When they're applying a code"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":956.946,"endTime":959.436,"body":"or a standard, what they're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":959.436,"endTime":964.076,"body":"getting and where the scope"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":959.436,"endTime":964.076,"body":"of that ultimately run runs"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":964.076,"endTime":967.296,"body":"its course and where timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":964.076,"endTime":967.296,"body":"fits into that discussion."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":967.397,"endTime":970.013,"body":"and that's not been as"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":967.397,"endTime":970.013,"body":"easy or challenge to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":970.013,"endTime":971.573,"body":"address as you might think."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":971.603,"endTime":973.703,"body":"And I think that's for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":971.603,"endTime":973.703,"body":"a couple of reasons."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":974.133,"endTime":977.743,"body":"Structural or fire engineers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":974.133,"endTime":977.743,"body":"to start with to my mind"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":977.743,"endTime":980.073,"body":"at least not actually that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":977.743,"endTime":980.073,"body":"profficient at dealing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":980.073,"endTime":981.783,"body":"with combustion problems."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":982.353,"endTime":985.743,"body":"So a lot of fire engineering"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":982.353,"endTime":985.743,"body":"consultants at least kind of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":985.743,"endTime":988.273,"body":"operate in this little bubble"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":985.743,"endTime":988.273,"body":"of I think Angus, Lou and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":988.273,"endTime":991.923,"body":"Graham Spinardi, defined it as"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":988.273,"endTime":991.923,"body":"sort of code speak there, you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":991.993,"endTime":996.848,"body":"develop an expertise  being"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":991.993,"endTime":996.848,"body":"able to read back what codes and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":996.848,"endTime":998.438,"body":"standards are telling you to do."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":998.648,"endTime":1002.008,"body":"So there was almost like a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":998.648,"endTime":1002.008,"body":"memorizing and interpretation"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1002.008,"endTime":1004.418,"body":"of a series of rules and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1002.008,"endTime":1004.418,"body":"regurgitating those bats"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1004.418,"endTime":1007.668,"body":"and design teams Which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1004.418,"endTime":1007.668,"body":"doesn't help you design"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1007.668,"endTime":1008.598,"body":"mass timber buildings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1008.598,"endTime":1011.878,"body":"You have to understand the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1008.598,"endTime":1011.878,"body":"fire dynamics quite well."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1011.878,"endTime":1013.958,"body":"And you have to have definitely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1011.878,"endTime":1013.958,"body":"a good understanding of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1013.958,"endTime":1017.298,"body":"the combustion processes,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1013.958,"endTime":1017.298,"body":"which unfortunately what's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1017.298,"endTime":1020.088,"body":"a lot of phone engineers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1017.298,"endTime":1020.088,"body":"are initially educated"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1020.118,"endTime":1021.558,"body":"to understand this stuff."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1022.268,"endTime":1025.618,"body":"Industry can quite quickly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1022.268,"endTime":1025.618,"body":"almost turn them away from"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1025.618,"endTime":1028.318,"body":"it and push them more towards"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1025.618,"endTime":1028.318,"body":"codes and standards and becoming"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1028.318,"endTime":1029.908,"body":"proficient in their application."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1029.908,"endTime":1033.088,"body":"So we've almost dumbed down"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1029.908,"endTime":1033.088,"body":"a lot of fire engineers which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1033.138,"endTime":1035.758,"body":"has made it problematic to,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1033.138,"endTime":1035.758,"body":"to design these buildings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1036.418,"endTime":1040.498,"body":"And then the other part"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1036.418,"endTime":1040.498,"body":"of it is from a structural"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1040.498,"endTime":1041.788,"body":"engineering perspective."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1041.858,"endTime":1044.258,"body":"Normally it's very hard to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1041.858,"endTime":1044.258,"body":"get structural engineers, to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1044.258,"endTime":1046.448,"body":"engage with the topic of fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1047.041,"endTime":1050.781,"body":"If you ask a structural"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1047.041,"endTime":1050.781,"body":"engineer to, to specify the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1050.781,"endTime":1052.901,"body":"fire protection to a steel"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1050.781,"endTime":1052.901,"body":"structure, you'll get some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1052.901,"endTime":1054.401,"body":"quite blank looks at time."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1054.761,"endTime":1057.371,"body":"The sort of principle with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1054.761,"endTime":1057.371,"body":"limiting temperatures and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1057.371,"endTime":1060.101,"body":"fire resistance periods"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1057.371,"endTime":1060.101,"body":"are pretty alien to them,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1060.151,"endTime":1063.371,"body":"but actually timber is a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1060.151,"endTime":1063.371,"body":"space that historically"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1063.371,"endTime":1067.311,"body":"structured engineers have felt"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1063.371,"endTime":1067.311,"body":"quite comfortable meddling"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1067.601,"endTime":1071.231,"body":"and I say meddling because"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1067.601,"endTime":1071.231,"body":"it's sort of playing around"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1071.231,"endTime":1073.841,"body":"the edges of a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1071.231,"endTime":1073.841,"body":"problems, because what we do"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1074.261,"endTime":1076.651,"body":"historically is we kind of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1074.261,"endTime":1076.651,"body":"resolve the fire problem in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1076.651,"endTime":1080.831,"body":"timber structures to one, if a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1076.651,"endTime":1080.831,"body":"charring rate and a time and a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1080.831,"endTime":1085.421,"body":"bit of multiplication, and then"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1080.831,"endTime":1085.421,"body":"ultimately designing what's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1085.421,"endTime":1089.091,"body":"left as if the char is to eat"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1085.421,"endTime":1089.091,"body":"in a way some of your sections."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1089.091,"endTime":1090.621,"body":"In a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1089.091,"endTime":1090.621,"body":"way, similar to how we would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1090.621,"endTime":1094.521,"body":"design a steel structure by"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1090.621,"endTime":1094.521,"body":"giving it adequate protection."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1094.521,"endTime":1099.091,"body":"So the interior is safe from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1094.521,"endTime":1099.091,"body":"temperature and we'll have the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1099.091,"endTime":1100.261,"body":"load bearing capacity, right?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1100.416,"endTime":1101.616,"body":"Exactly it says,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1101.866,"endTime":1103.196,"body":"Or in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1101.866,"endTime":1103.196,"body":"concrete where you would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1103.196,"endTime":1106.616,"body":"calculate the depth at which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1103.196,"endTime":1106.616,"body":"your rebar is to make sure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1106.616,"endTime":1110.636,"body":"it does not receive a thermal"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1106.616,"endTime":1110.636,"body":"shock that will make it lose"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1110.636,"endTime":1112.046,"body":"its little bearing capacity."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1112.196,"endTime":1115.296,"body":"So in the way this simplified"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1112.196,"endTime":1115.296,"body":"the problem to the same"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1115.296,"endTime":1117.846,"body":"approach, to all types of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1115.296,"endTime":1117.846,"body":"structure, because eventually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1118.116,"endTime":1120.486,"body":"you need to understand"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1118.116,"endTime":1120.486,"body":"what is the depth of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1120.516,"endTime":1123.966,"body":"thermal protection being"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1120.516,"endTime":1123.966,"body":"that external elements, char"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1124.296,"endTime":1125.946,"body":"or mortar or anything else."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1125.946,"endTime":1128.666,"body":"And then your let's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1125.946,"endTime":1128.666,"body":"say healthy structured"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1128.666,"endTime":1130.386,"body":"that has the capacity."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1130.436,"endTime":1130.646,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1130.676,"endTime":1134.276,"body":"You oversize your section"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1130.676,"endTime":1134.276,"body":"and in principle, I guess it"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1134.276,"endTime":1136.076,"body":"doesn't necessarily always"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1134.276,"endTime":1136.076,"body":"need oversizing, but you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1136.076,"endTime":1138.146,"body":"made sure that there's enough"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1136.076,"endTime":1138.146,"body":"material left at the end,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1138.146,"endTime":1141.356,"body":"after the char has eroded"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1138.146,"endTime":1141.356,"body":"some of that section to make"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1141.356,"endTime":1142.586,"body":"sure it can support the loads."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1142.636,"endTime":1145.606,"body":"And actually conceptually, a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1142.636,"endTime":1145.606,"body":"lot of structural engineers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1146.186,"endTime":1148.456,"body":"are on board with that and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1146.186,"endTime":1148.456,"body":"are quite happy to apply"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1148.456,"endTime":1150.916,"body":"those methods that you see"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1148.456,"endTime":1150.916,"body":"in things like Eurocode five."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1150.963,"endTime":1153.266,"body":"But the problem with that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1150.963,"endTime":1153.266,"body":"is, is kind of the charring"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1153.266,"endTime":1156.206,"body":"process and the application"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1153.266,"endTime":1156.206,"body":"of the fire resistance period."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1156.746,"endTime":1159.116,"body":"It masks an awful"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1156.746,"endTime":1159.116,"body":"lot of complicated"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1159.116,"endTime":1159.986,"body":"stuff that's going on."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1160.256,"endTime":1163.226,"body":"Charring is obviously a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1160.256,"endTime":1163.226,"body":"by-product of the combustion"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1163.226,"endTime":1165.566,"body":"process and when the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1163.226,"endTime":1165.566,"body":"structure is burning, that's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1165.566,"endTime":1167.096,"body":"changing the enclosure fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1167.666,"endTime":1171.206,"body":"And that in turn brings into"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1167.666,"endTime":1171.206,"body":"question, the very relevance"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1171.206,"endTime":1174.266,"body":"of a fire resistance periods"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1171.206,"endTime":1174.266,"body":"when you applied them to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1174.266,"endTime":1175.346,"body":"combustible structures."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1175.346,"endTime":1178.679,"body":"So, we've got sort of structure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1175.346,"endTime":1178.679,"body":"engineers thinking they have"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1178.679,"endTime":1181.329,"body":"a huge amount of confidence"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1178.679,"endTime":1181.329,"body":"in this space, but actually"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1181.329,"endTime":1183.189,"body":"their kind of knowledge"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1181.329,"endTime":1183.189,"body":"knowledges is pretty minimal."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1183.879,"endTime":1186.969,"body":"And so I liken it to sort of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1183.879,"endTime":1186.969,"body":"the, the Dunning-Kruger analogy,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1186.969,"endTime":1189.979,"body":"wherever it's a peak confidence,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1186.969,"endTime":1189.979,"body":"but also peak ignorance,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1189.979,"endTime":1193.349,"body":"somewhere applying charring"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1189.979,"endTime":1193.349,"body":"rates to timber structures."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1194.079,"endTime":1199.509,"body":"And so a challenge has been to,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1194.079,"endTime":1199.509,"body":"to understand when can we apply"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1199.509,"endTime":1201.219,"body":"that really simplistic approach."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1202.134,"endTime":1204.054,"body":"To designing timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1202.134,"endTime":1204.054,"body":"structures, charring rates"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1204.054,"endTime":1205.014,"body":"in fire resistance periods."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1205.014,"endTime":1206.564,"body":"And when do we need to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1205.014,"endTime":1206.564,"body":"do something more clever?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1206.664,"endTime":1210.264,"body":"And I'm really, that comes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1206.664,"endTime":1210.264,"body":"down to what your objectives"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1210.264,"endTime":1211.344,"body":"for your structure up."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1211.494,"endTime":1214.928,"body":"So, we somewhat confusingly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1211.494,"endTime":1214.928,"body":"all under the umbrella of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1214.928,"endTime":1217.748,"body":"fire resistance, where we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1214.928,"endTime":1217.748,"body":"contain a myriad of different"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1217.748,"endTime":1219.938,"body":"functions and objectives"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1217.748,"endTime":1219.938,"body":"that we're trying to achieve."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1220.838,"endTime":1224.168,"body":"And when we've got tall"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1220.838,"endTime":1224.168,"body":"buildings in particular where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1224.168,"endTime":1227.708,"body":"the consequences of failure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1224.168,"endTime":1227.708,"body":"are huge, what that fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1227.708,"endTime":1231.698,"body":"resistance rating is doing is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1227.708,"endTime":1231.698,"body":"it's trying to be a proxy for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1231.698,"endTime":1235.148,"body":"the structure surviving the full"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1231.698,"endTime":1235.148,"body":"duration of the fire or burnout"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1235.178,"endTime":1236.918,"body":"as the term is commonly used."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1237.668,"endTime":1239.268,"body":"But in lower"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1237.668,"endTime":1239.268,"body":"consequence buildings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1239.268,"endTime":1243.158,"body":"So maybe your sort of single"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1239.268,"endTime":1243.158,"body":"story, maybe two story buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1243.238,"endTime":1246.718,"body":"that fire resistance period is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1243.238,"endTime":1246.718,"body":"serving as a proxy of of giving"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1246.718,"endTime":1249.591,"body":"you enough time, enough time"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1246.718,"endTime":1249.591,"body":"to get out enough time for the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1249.591,"endTime":1252.951,"body":"fire rescue service to instigate"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1249.591,"endTime":1252.951,"body":"some kind of intervention."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1252.978,"endTime":1255.328,"body":"And so under these fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1252.978,"endTime":1255.328,"body":"resistance ratings you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1255.328,"endTime":1256.628,"body":"have different objectives."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1256.643,"endTime":1260.543,"body":"And objective of surviving"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1256.643,"endTime":1260.543,"body":"long enough and objective of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1260.543,"endTime":1263.363,"body":"having an adequate likelihood"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1260.543,"endTime":1263.363,"body":"of surviving indefinitely."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1263.583,"endTime":1267.333,"body":"And it's quite challenging to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1263.583,"endTime":1267.333,"body":"tease out what type of buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1267.333,"endTime":1270.393,"body":"need to survive burnout and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1267.333,"endTime":1270.393,"body":"what type of buildings need"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1270.393,"endTime":1271.863,"body":"to survive long enough."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1271.943,"endTime":1275.373,"body":"And actually it's where the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1271.943,"endTime":1275.373,"body":"post-war building studies start"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1275.373,"endTime":1276.753,"body":"to elucidate that problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1276.753,"endTime":1278.793,"body":"And they give you some different"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1276.753,"endTime":1278.793,"body":"types of buildings that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1278.793,"endTime":1282.543,"body":"historically, at least surviving"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1278.793,"endTime":1282.543,"body":"the fire has been an objective."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1282.723,"endTime":1284.973,"body":"And for some types of buildings,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1282.723,"endTime":1284.973,"body":"it hasn't been an objective."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1285.033,"endTime":1287.803,"body":"And what we've done in a project"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1285.033,"endTime":1287.803,"body":"we'll talk about a bit later"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1287.853,"endTime":1291.893,"body":"is set some guidance out that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1287.853,"endTime":1291.893,"body":"tries to steer people towards"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1292.133,"endTime":1294.473,"body":"the kind of evidence they need"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1292.133,"endTime":1294.473,"body":"to generate for their design,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1294.473,"endTime":1296.723,"body":"depending upon what their"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1294.473,"endTime":1296.723,"body":"underlying objectives are."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1297.173,"endTime":1299.406,"body":"And that's just dealing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1297.173,"endTime":1299.406,"body":"with in the umbrella of life"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1299.406,"endTime":1300.846,"body":"safety and health and safety."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1301.066,"endTime":1304.051,"body":"The discussion, around"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1301.066,"endTime":1304.051,"body":"resilience and losses and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1304.051,"endTime":1307.471,"body":"insureability is almost entirely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1304.051,"endTime":1307.471,"body":"separate to, to that in terms"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1307.471,"endTime":1310.768,"body":"of reinstatement and potential"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1307.471,"endTime":1310.768,"body":"or estimated maximum losses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1311.838,"endTime":1314.568,"body":"For me, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1311.838,"endTime":1314.568,"body":"whole concept of fire resistance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1314.568,"endTime":1318.758,"body":"as the proxy of structural fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1314.568,"endTime":1318.758,"body":"safety is kind of difficult."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1318.758,"endTime":1321.738,"body":"Me as someone who's who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1318.758,"endTime":1321.738,"body":"was a deputy chief of a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1321.738,"endTime":1324.648,"body":"fire laboratory and we do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1321.738,"endTime":1324.648,"body":"fire resistance testing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1324.678,"endTime":1327.378,"body":"And, we do hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1324.678,"endTime":1327.378,"body":"these tests every year."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1327.978,"endTime":1331.138,"body":"You take a look on how the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1327.978,"endTime":1331.138,"body":"structures behave in fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1331.138,"endTime":1335.248,"body":"tests and you immediately"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1331.138,"endTime":1335.248,"body":"realized that there is no"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1335.383,"endTime":1338.773,"body":"equivalency between the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1335.383,"endTime":1338.773,"body":"results of these tests."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1339.313,"endTime":1341.313,"body":"And the approach is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1339.313,"endTime":1341.313,"body":"obviously the standard"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1341.313,"endTime":1342.303,"body":"time temperature curve."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1342.303,"endTime":1344.243,"body":"And we know where it came from."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1344.243,"endTime":1345.923,"body":"And if you don't know where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1344.243,"endTime":1345.923,"body":"it came from, there was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1345.923,"endTime":1348.243,"body":"a podcast episode about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1345.923,"endTime":1348.243,"body":"that with John Gales."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1348.543,"endTime":1352.313,"body":"And you should listen to that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1348.543,"endTime":1352.313,"body":"to get some background on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1352.323,"endTime":1356.583,"body":"why it's so ridiculous to,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1352.323,"endTime":1356.583,"body":"to use it today as a proxy of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1356.583,"endTime":1357.663,"body":"structural fire engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1358.112,"endTime":1361.858,"body":"But in the end, the assumption"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1358.112,"endTime":1361.858,"body":"that the structure made of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1361.858,"endTime":1366.108,"body":"combustible material and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1361.858,"endTime":1366.108,"body":"noncombustible material that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1366.108,"endTime":1368.938,"body":"they have, the same fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1366.108,"endTime":1368.938,"body":"resistance is fault because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1369.238,"endTime":1371.788,"body":"these structures will lead"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1369.238,"endTime":1371.788,"body":"to completely different fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1371.788,"endTime":1374.958,"body":"And it's very difficult"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1371.788,"endTime":1374.958,"body":"to quantify them with one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1374.958,"endTime":1376.758,"body":"set temperature profile."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1377.158,"endTime":1381.568,"body":"In fact, when you do that for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1377.158,"endTime":1381.568,"body":"combustible structures and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1382.048,"endTime":1385.198,"body":"engineered timber is certainly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1382.048,"endTime":1385.198,"body":"a combustible structure."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1385.191,"endTime":1385.278,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1385.648,"endTime":1389.518,"body":"Exposure is very unrealistic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1385.648,"endTime":1389.518,"body":"because sometimes the combustion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1389.518,"endTime":1393.778,"body":"of the specimen itself is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1389.518,"endTime":1393.778,"body":"sufficient to create the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1393.778,"endTime":1394.918,"body":"conditions within the furnace."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1394.918,"endTime":1398.128,"body":"That for example, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1394.918,"endTime":1398.128,"body":"concrete wall, you would have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1398.128,"endTime":1399.358,"body":"to use burners to create."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1399.414,"endTime":1403.694,"body":"And this whole fire dynamics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1399.414,"endTime":1403.694,"body":"within the furnace, I feel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1403.694,"endTime":1408.254,"body":"it is something that was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1403.694,"endTime":1408.254,"body":"not necessarily thought out"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1408.284,"endTime":1410.834,"body":"when the method was devised."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1411.254,"endTime":1412.214,"body":"And today okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1412.214,"endTime":1413.744,"body":"The test is passed."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1413.774,"endTime":1418.844,"body":"You have the same number behind"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1413.774,"endTime":1418.844,"body":"your rating for one and another"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1418.964,"endTime":1423.384,"body":"structure, but in consequence,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1418.964,"endTime":1423.384,"body":"their behavior in a fire will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1423.384,"endTime":1425.654,"body":"be completely different and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1423.384,"endTime":1425.654,"body":"there's quite a good chance."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1425.654,"endTime":1428.384,"body":"The fire will be completely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1425.654,"endTime":1428.384,"body":"different because of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1428.384,"endTime":1429.704,"body":"the material being used."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1429.961,"endTime":1433.594,"body":"So the problem we are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1429.961,"endTime":1433.594,"body":"discussing here is certainly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1433.594,"endTime":1437.614,"body":"not the problem is fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1433.594,"endTime":1437.614,"body":"resistance measured as the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1437.614,"endTime":1438.994,"body":"standardized test outcome."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1439.294,"endTime":1443.134,"body":"Is the fire resistance of timber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1439.294,"endTime":1443.134,"body":"structures sufficient to replace"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1443.134,"endTime":1447.861,"body":"steel  or concrete or any"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1443.134,"endTime":1447.861,"body":"other material, because it is."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1448.494,"endTime":1449.784,"body":"This is not the question."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1449.784,"endTime":1453.851,"body":"The question is how the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1449.784,"endTime":1453.851,"body":"environment of the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1453.851,"endTime":1456.491,"body":"will change with the, with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1453.851,"endTime":1456.491,"body":"this change of a material."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1456.911,"endTime":1459.191,"body":"And for me, this change is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1456.911,"endTime":1459.191,"body":"quite a profound because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1459.521,"endTime":1462.581,"body":"you're completely turning"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1459.521,"endTime":1462.581,"body":"around the fire dynamics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1462.581,"endTime":1464.861,"body":"in your, in your building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1462.581,"endTime":1464.861,"body":"with this movement, right?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1465.581,"endTime":1466.991,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1465.581,"endTime":1466.991,"body":"think that the question"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1466.991,"endTime":1470.201,"body":"becomes what relevance does"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1466.991,"endTime":1470.201,"body":"far resistance have for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1470.201,"endTime":1472.051,"body":"combustible structure and when?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1472.421,"endTime":1474.801,"body":"to sort of elaborate on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1472.421,"endTime":1474.801,"body":"this a bit, there's a couple"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1474.801,"endTime":1475.491,"body":"of things to consider."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1476.586,"endTime":1479.316,"body":"One is there's the fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1476.586,"endTime":1479.316,"body":"resistance period itself,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1479.346,"endTime":1483.526,"body":"which we go back to Inberg"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1479.346,"endTime":1483.526,"body":"in 1928, and I'm sure John"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1483.526,"endTime":1484.666,"body":"Gales spoke about this."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1485.206,"endTime":1487.996,"body":"The original concept of a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1485.206,"endTime":1487.996,"body":"fire resistance period was"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1488.186,"endTime":1491.096,"body":"this equating or there's very"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1488.186,"endTime":1491.096,"body":"crude equating of energy."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1491.096,"endTime":1493.986,"body":"There's a principle of area"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1491.096,"endTime":1493.986,"body":"under the curve and this, this"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1494.056,"endTime":1497.556,"body":"principle that that your fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1494.056,"endTime":1497.556,"body":"resistance period would to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1497.556,"endTime":1501.276,"body":"some extent, correlate with the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1497.556,"endTime":1501.276,"body":"fuel load density in a room."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1502.096,"endTime":1504.846,"body":"And so to apply a fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1502.096,"endTime":1504.846,"body":"resistance periods, you have"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1504.846,"endTime":1509.316,"body":"to in advance of the fire,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1504.846,"endTime":1509.316,"body":"know what your fire load is."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1509.626,"endTime":1512.466,"body":"And once that fire load is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1509.626,"endTime":1512.466,"body":"gone, then you can use the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1512.516,"endTime":1515.396,"body":"fire resistance rating as a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1512.516,"endTime":1515.396,"body":"proxy for surviving the fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1515.396,"endTime":1518.906,"body":"So, the timber structures"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1515.396,"endTime":1518.906,"body":"where they're exposed is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1518.906,"endTime":1522.246,"body":"problematic because once they"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1518.906,"endTime":1522.246,"body":"become involved as a source"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1522.246,"endTime":1525.926,"body":"of fuel, are you no longer"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1522.246,"endTime":1525.926,"body":"know what your fire load is."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1526.136,"endTime":1528.721,"body":"because it structure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1526.136,"endTime":1528.721,"body":"itself is a contributor."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1529.751,"endTime":1530.711,"body":"And then you've got the test."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1530.741,"endTime":1535.031,"body":"The test ceases to be a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1530.741,"endTime":1535.031,"body":"very good comparative across"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1535.031,"endTime":1539.021,"body":"materials when the fuel supply,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1535.031,"endTime":1539.021,"body":"whether it's propane or oil or"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1539.021,"endTime":1542.411,"body":"whatever, it might be, becomes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1539.021,"endTime":1542.411,"body":"a variable depending upon the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1542.411,"endTime":1543.581,"body":"material that's being tested."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1543.821,"endTime":1545.711,"body":"And so as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1543.821,"endTime":1545.711,"body":"now, you put a piece"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1545.711,"endTime":1546.791,"body":"of wood in a furnace."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1546.891,"endTime":1550.701,"body":"It starts burning that burning"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1546.891,"endTime":1550.701,"body":"is going to change the gas"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1550.701,"endTime":1551.811,"body":"temperature in the furnace."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1552.351,"endTime":1554.781,"body":"And the response of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1552.351,"endTime":1554.781,"body":"furnaces is to turn down"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1554.781,"endTime":1557.191,"body":"the fuel supply to achieve"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1554.781,"endTime":1557.191,"body":"the time temperature curve."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1558.001,"endTime":1560.791,"body":"And so in real terms, what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1558.001,"endTime":1560.791,"body":"you're, what you're doing is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1560.791,"endTime":1564.141,"body":"changing the incident heat"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1560.791,"endTime":1564.141,"body":"flux from the contents of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1564.141,"endTime":1567.281,"body":"the room to the structural"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1564.141,"endTime":1567.281,"body":"element as a consequence of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1567.631,"endTime":1568.771,"body":"turning that burner down."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1568.871,"endTime":1571.511,"body":"And so really you can only"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1568.871,"endTime":1571.511,"body":"say with any great confidence."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1572.501,"endTime":1575.081,"body":"That fire resistance is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1572.501,"endTime":1575.081,"body":"relevant for mass timber."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1575.081,"endTime":1576.851,"body":"When you prevent it"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1575.081,"endTime":1576.851,"body":"from contributing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1576.851,"endTime":1577.571,"body":"as a source of fuel."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1577.748,"endTime":1581.768,"body":"And that's where there's this"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1577.748,"endTime":1581.768,"body":"term encapsulation starts to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1581.768,"endTime":1585.428,"body":"emerge of this idea that if"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1581.768,"endTime":1585.428,"body":"you put enough plaster board"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1585.818,"endTime":1589.538,"body":"or whatever, the product might"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1585.818,"endTime":1589.538,"body":"be on the CLT or whatever the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1589.538,"endTime":1593.048,"body":"timber substrate might be to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1589.538,"endTime":1593.048,"body":"prevent it from pyrolizing,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1593.588,"endTime":1595.718,"body":"then you can be confident"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1593.588,"endTime":1595.718,"body":"that you're working in a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1595.718,"endTime":1599.798,"body":"space where the only fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1595.718,"endTime":1599.798,"body":"load driving the fire dynamics"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1599.798,"endTime":1600.938,"body":"is the contents of the room."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1601.158,"endTime":1603.218,"body":"It's not the structural"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1601.158,"endTime":1603.218,"body":"elements themselves."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1603.608,"endTime":1605.828,"body":"From my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1603.608,"endTime":1605.828,"body":"experience with encapsulated"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1605.842,"endTime":1608.641,"body":"timber structures in my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1605.842,"endTime":1608.641,"body":"furnaces, they behave exactly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1608.641,"endTime":1614.001,"body":"in the same way or very similar"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1608.641,"endTime":1614.001,"body":"how would a concrete or steel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1614.001,"endTime":1615.381,"body":"with installation behave."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1615.751,"endTime":1618.021,"body":"It's the moment when the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1615.751,"endTime":1618.021,"body":"structural,element becomes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1618.021,"endTime":1620.601,"body":"the contributor to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1618.021,"endTime":1620.601,"body":"fire when it all changes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1620.836,"endTime":1623.469,"body":"You also mentioned is going"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1620.836,"endTime":1623.469,"body":"to be the same but  there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1623.469,"endTime":1626.289,"body":"are many outcomes of this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1623.469,"endTime":1626.289,"body":"compartment, fire dynamics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1626.529,"endTime":1630.099,"body":"There's a chance that it,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1626.529,"endTime":1630.099,"body":"even though the wood will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1630.189,"endTime":1634.389,"body":"pyrolize and adds to the fuel,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1630.189,"endTime":1634.389,"body":"it will not have sufficient"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1634.389,"endTime":1635.979,"body":"oxygen to burn in the room."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1636.219,"endTime":1639.119,"body":"So in essence, you just add"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1636.219,"endTime":1639.119,"body":"more fuel, you have more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1639.129,"endTime":1641.979,"body":"fuel rich mixture but, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1639.129,"endTime":1641.979,"body":"amount of energy released"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1641.979,"endTime":1644.439,"body":"within the compartment is the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1641.979,"endTime":1644.439,"body":"exact same as it was before."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1644.869,"endTime":1647.209,"body":"But what happens is that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1644.869,"endTime":1647.209,"body":"you have much bigger"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1647.479,"endTime":1650.619,"body":"fire outside, that's one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1647.479,"endTime":1650.619,"body":"voice in the discussion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1651.159,"endTime":1653.639,"body":"On the other hand, you can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1651.159,"endTime":1653.639,"body":"have this fuel to increase"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1653.639,"endTime":1656.449,"body":"the size of the fire within"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1653.639,"endTime":1656.449,"body":"the compartment and change the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1656.689,"endTime":1660.139,"body":"temperatures inside,  increased"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1656.689,"endTime":1660.139,"body":"them and accelerate the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1660.139,"endTime":1662.989,"body":"in a way, because then the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1660.139,"endTime":1662.989,"body":"pyrolysis will be quicker."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1662.999,"endTime":1665.059,"body":"The destruction of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1662.999,"endTime":1665.059,"body":"elements will be quicker."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1665.409,"endTime":1668.079,"body":"So it can also lead into this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1665.409,"endTime":1668.079,"body":"loop of, you know, accelerating"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1668.079,"endTime":1669.519,"body":"the fire  quite quickly."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1670.059,"endTime":1672.849,"body":"And on top of that, the wood is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1670.059,"endTime":1672.849,"body":"a very good insulator as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1673.449,"endTime":1676.539,"body":"And one thing that you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1673.449,"endTime":1676.539,"body":"have with concrete with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1676.569,"endTime":1679.929,"body":"gypsum plasterboards for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1676.569,"endTime":1679.929,"body":"example, they take a lot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1679.929,"endTime":1681.009,"body":"of heat out of the fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1681.189,"endTime":1684.004,"body":"Because of the processes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1681.189,"endTime":1684.004,"body":"within the materials because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1684.004,"endTime":1687.184,"body":"of their bulkness because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1684.004,"endTime":1687.184,"body":"of specific heat that these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1687.184,"endTime":1690.364,"body":"materials have, you need a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1687.184,"endTime":1690.364,"body":"lot of energy to heat them up."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1690.394,"endTime":1692.754,"body":"So they basically take"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1690.394,"endTime":1692.754,"body":"the energy  out of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1692.804,"endTime":1694.414,"body":"compartment into the structure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1694.754,"endTime":1697.844,"body":"With wood you have  the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1694.754,"endTime":1697.844,"body":"similar effect as with any"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1697.844,"endTime":1701.384,"body":"well-insulated material that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1697.844,"endTime":1701.384,"body":"you don't need that much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1701.384,"endTime":1702.854,"body":"heat to heat up the surface."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1703.154,"endTime":1705.164,"body":"The heat is very slowly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1703.154,"endTime":1705.164,"body":"transported to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1705.164,"endTime":1706.214,"body":"middle of the elements."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1706.214,"endTime":1708.814,"body":"So in the end, you don't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1706.214,"endTime":1708.814,"body":"take that much heat of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1708.844,"endTime":1712.044,"body":"the compartment as you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1708.844,"endTime":1712.044,"body":"would with the concrete."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1712.494,"endTime":1715.434,"body":"And this is also something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1712.494,"endTime":1715.434,"body":"very rarely quantified in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1715.434,"endTime":1719.074,"body":"analysis and the differences"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1715.434,"endTime":1719.074,"body":"can be quite profound  in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1719.074,"endTime":1720.004,"body":"hundreds of degrees."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1720.054,"endTime":1722.484,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1720.054,"endTime":1722.484,"body":"what you identify there is a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1722.484,"endTime":1726.344,"body":"myriad of things that, that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1722.484,"endTime":1726.344,"body":"make building,   with timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1726.554,"endTime":1729.744,"body":"far more complicated than just"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1726.554,"endTime":1729.744,"body":"addressing sort of structural"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1729.744,"endTime":1731.214,"body":"stability in the event of fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1732.244,"endTime":1735.994,"body":"It can be common, can touch"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1732.244,"endTime":1735.994,"body":"on virtually every facet"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1735.994,"endTime":1737.434,"body":"of your fire strategy."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1737.464,"endTime":1739.744,"body":"You talk about the sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1737.464,"endTime":1739.744,"body":"of the global equivalence"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1739.744,"endTime":1742.864,"body":"ratio aspect of the problem"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1739.744,"endTime":1742.864,"body":"where you have the external"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1742.864,"endTime":1745.834,"body":"flaming cause you've got"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1742.864,"endTime":1745.834,"body":"the access, pyrolysis gas is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1745.834,"endTime":1746.974,"body":"burning outside the opening."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1747.694,"endTime":1750.504,"body":"If you're wanting to build a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1747.694,"endTime":1750.504,"body":"tool building out of timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1750.504,"endTime":1752.664,"body":"and you've changed your flame"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1750.504,"endTime":1752.664,"body":"Heights, and as a result,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1752.664,"endTime":1755.974,"body":"you've changed your heat fluxes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1752.664,"endTime":1755.974,"body":"to the stories above that has"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1755.974,"endTime":1759.064,"body":"implications for external fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1755.974,"endTime":1759.064,"body":"spread, whether that's to a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1759.064,"endTime":1761.614,"body":"surrounding property or from"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1759.064,"endTime":1761.614,"body":"story to story, fire spread."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1761.614,"endTime":1765.154,"body":"So you might have to put some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1761.614,"endTime":1765.154,"body":"other interventions in place"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1765.204,"endTime":1768.074,"body":"to at least achieve some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1765.204,"endTime":1768.074,"body":"level of equivalence in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1768.074,"endTime":1771.224,"body":"delay you're likely to have in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1768.074,"endTime":1771.224,"body":"story-to-story, fire spread, for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1771.224,"endTime":1774.014,"body":"example, and that's something"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1771.224,"endTime":1774.014,"body":"that's often neglected."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1774.044,"endTime":1776.984,"body":"I think we've, we focused an"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1774.044,"endTime":1776.984,"body":"awful lot on the structural"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1776.984,"endTime":1777.854,"body":"part of the problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1778.344,"endTime":1781.014,"body":"What we're missing is all"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1778.344,"endTime":1781.014,"body":"the various other fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1781.014,"endTime":1782.214,"body":"strategy implications."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1782.214,"endTime":1784.894,"body":"So the fire spread part there"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1782.214,"endTime":1784.894,"body":"that you spoke about if you're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1784.894,"endTime":1788.194,"body":"ceiling ignites, for example,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1784.894,"endTime":1788.194,"body":"that's going to change the the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1788.194,"endTime":1790.114,"body":"fire spread characteristics"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1788.194,"endTime":1790.114,"body":"in the compartment."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1790.114,"endTime":1794.134,"body":"And that might have an impact on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1790.114,"endTime":1794.134,"body":"the occupants who are escaping"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1794.234,"endTime":1797.384,"body":"and the extent of burning in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1794.234,"endTime":1797.384,"body":"the compartment could also"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1797.384,"endTime":1799.694,"body":"make for a far more challenging"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1797.384,"endTime":1799.694,"body":"fire for the fire rescue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1799.694,"endTime":1801.494,"body":"service to intervene with."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1801.574,"endTime":1803.344,"body":"And so we might have"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1801.574,"endTime":1803.344,"body":"to think more carefully"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1803.344,"endTime":1806.044,"body":"about the facilities we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1803.344,"endTime":1806.044,"body":"provide for intervention."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1806.096,"endTime":1809.096,"body":"When you move towards a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1806.096,"endTime":1809.096,"body":"combustible framing solution,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1809.636,"endTime":1813.026,"body":"you have to do a very thorough"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1809.636,"endTime":1813.026,"body":"review across all facets"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1813.026,"endTime":1815.396,"body":"of your fire strategy in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1813.026,"endTime":1815.396,"body":"terms of the implications"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1815.916,"endTime":1818.246,"body":"and show that you've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1815.916,"endTime":1818.246,"body":"addressed them rigorously."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1819.102,"endTime":1821.812,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1819.102,"endTime":1821.812,"body":"it's what you say this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1821.812,"endTime":1826.272,"body":"complexity of the thing,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1821.812,"endTime":1826.272,"body":"how big the changes are."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1826.332,"endTime":1830.312,"body":"Does that mean that, you just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1826.332,"endTime":1830.312,"body":"cannot put it under the simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1830.312,"endTime":1832.442,"body":"compliance of ADB, right?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1832.923,"endTime":1833.373,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1833.549,"endTime":1835.179,"body":"In general terms, I"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1833.549,"endTime":1835.179,"body":"think you're right."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1835.179,"endTime":1839.169,"body":"I think what we've produced"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1835.179,"endTime":1839.169,"body":"and we have a project with the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1839.169,"endTime":1842.069,"body":"Structural Timber Association,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1839.169,"endTime":1842.069,"body":"which is funded by the,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1842.069,"endTime":1845.089,"body":"kind of the big three CLT"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1842.069,"endTime":1845.089,"body":"suppliers  KLH, Storaenson"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1845.089,"endTime":1848.659,"body":"and Binderholtz and an output"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1845.089,"endTime":1848.659,"body":"from that project is to try"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1848.659,"endTime":1850.369,"body":"and help designers early on."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1851.429,"endTime":1854.459,"body":"From a structural perspective,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1851.429,"endTime":1854.459,"body":"not from a full fire strategy"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1854.489,"endTime":1858.509,"body":"perspective to understand what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1854.489,"endTime":1858.509,"body":"evidence they need to produce as"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1858.509,"endTime":1861.359,"body":"a designer to satisfy everybody"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1858.509,"endTime":1861.359,"body":"that the level of safety"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1861.359,"endTime":1863.729,"body":"they're achieving is appropriate"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1861.359,"endTime":1863.729,"body":"in the circumstances."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1863.729,"endTime":1866.279,"body":"So we call this the sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1863.729,"endTime":1866.279,"body":"of compliance roadmap."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1867.189,"endTime":1869.219,"body":"And you go back to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1867.189,"endTime":1869.219,"body":"post-war building studies"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1869.219,"endTime":1870.749,"body":"and the origins of ADB."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1870.789,"endTime":1873.449,"body":"And as I said, at the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1870.789,"endTime":1873.449,"body":"beginning, you've got fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1873.449,"endTime":1876.529,"body":"resistance as a principal is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1873.449,"endTime":1876.529,"body":"spanning multiple objectives."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1876.529,"endTime":1879.709,"body":"So while you're, whilst"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1876.529,"endTime":1879.709,"body":"you're in the domain,  a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1879.709,"endTime":1882.739,"body":"fire resistance being a proxy"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1879.709,"endTime":1882.739,"body":"for buying you some time to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1882.739,"endTime":1886.429,"body":"get out allow firefigther"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1882.739,"endTime":1886.429,"body":"intervention, then there may"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1886.429,"endTime":1888.739,"body":"be fire resistance testing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1886.429,"endTime":1888.739,"body":"and fire-resistance periods."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1888.779,"endTime":1891.629,"body":"Isn't a bad starting"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1888.779,"endTime":1891.629,"body":"point for that objective."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1891.689,"endTime":1894.269,"body":"Obviously it says it's going"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1891.689,"endTime":1894.269,"body":"to change the fire dynamics and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1894.269,"endTime":1896.639,"body":"it's not going to be the same"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1894.269,"endTime":1896.639,"body":"for a steel structure versus"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1896.639,"endTime":1899.069,"body":"a concrete structure versus a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1896.639,"endTime":1899.069,"body":"timber structure in terms of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1899.069,"endTime":1900.179,"body":"what you're ultimately getting."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1900.944,"endTime":1903.544,"body":"But what we've shown over"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1900.944,"endTime":1903.544,"body":"the years and an Angus Law"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1903.544,"endTime":1905.794,"body":"and Luke Bisby got that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1903.544,"endTime":1905.794,"body":"great paper on the rise and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1905.794,"endTime":1907.054,"body":"rise of fire resistance."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1907.534,"endTime":1910.014,"body":"Is it generally we've started"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1907.534,"endTime":1910.014,"body":"from the point of view of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1910.014,"endTime":1912.844,"body":"what do we need needs to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1910.014,"endTime":1912.844,"body":"achieve or to survive burnout."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1912.844,"endTime":1914.344,"body":"And all we've really"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1912.844,"endTime":1914.344,"body":"done is just keep ramping"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1914.344,"endTime":1915.334,"body":"the fire resistance up."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1915.364,"endTime":1918.454,"body":"So in a lot of these numbers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1915.364,"endTime":1918.454,"body":"in guidance, we have a fair"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1918.454,"endTime":1921.537,"body":"amount of meat on the bone"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1918.454,"endTime":1921.537,"body":"in terms of, where that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1921.537,"endTime":1924.027,"body":"uncertainty can go in terms"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1921.537,"endTime":1924.027,"body":"of the conservatives and in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1924.027,"endTime":1925.017,"body":"those fire resistance periods."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1925.677,"endTime":1927.757,"body":"I think where it becomes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1925.677,"endTime":1927.757,"body":"really problematic is where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1927.757,"endTime":1931.527,"body":"you're dealing with a taller"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1927.757,"endTime":1931.527,"body":"building where your objective is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1931.527,"endTime":1935.067,"body":"surviving the fire and surviving"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1931.527,"endTime":1935.067,"body":"the full duration of the farm."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1935.427,"endTime":1938.727,"body":"And what that means is if"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1935.427,"endTime":1938.727,"body":"you want to apply Approved"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1938.727,"endTime":1941.834,"body":"Document B, as you referenced,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1938.727,"endTime":1941.834,"body":"then you've got to put a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1941.834,"endTime":1943.874,"body":"huge amount of plasterboard"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1941.834,"endTime":1943.874,"body":"on your structure to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1943.874,"endTime":1946.244,"body":"prevent it from contributing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1943.874,"endTime":1946.244,"body":"as a source of fuel."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1946.344,"endTime":1949.324,"body":"That's the principle that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1946.344,"endTime":1949.324,"body":"has to underpin applying"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1949.324,"endTime":1950.734,"body":"that fire resistance period."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1951.514,"endTime":1952.774,"body":"If you want to do anything else."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1952.774,"endTime":1955.864,"body":"If you want to expose your"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1952.774,"endTime":1955.864,"body":"structure, if you want"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1955.864,"endTime":1957.214,"body":"to partially protect it."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1957.214,"endTime":1959.634,"body":"So your plasterboard is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1957.214,"endTime":1959.634,"body":"potentially only gonna survive"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1959.664,"endTime":1960.714,"body":"partway through the fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1961.374,"endTime":1963.774,"body":"What you're accepting is your"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1961.374,"endTime":1963.774,"body":"structure is going to become"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1963.774,"endTime":1965.064,"body":"involved as a source of fuel."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1965.454,"endTime":1967.404,"body":"You invalidate the fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1965.454,"endTime":1967.404,"body":"resistance period in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1967.404,"endTime":1969.894,"body":"terms of it being a proxy"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1967.404,"endTime":1969.894,"body":"for surviving burnout."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1969.894,"endTime":1972.774,"body":"And you have to show a,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1969.894,"endTime":1972.774,"body":"when all is said and done,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1972.774,"endTime":1975.624,"body":"when the fire load in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1972.774,"endTime":1975.624,"body":"room is consumed, that the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1975.624,"endTime":1979.074,"body":"structure self extinguishes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1975.624,"endTime":1979.074,"body":"or undergoes also extinction."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1979.294,"endTime":1982.114,"body":"And that what's left in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1979.294,"endTime":1982.114,"body":"terms of the residual section"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1982.604,"endTime":1983.564,"body":"can support the loads."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1983.744,"endTime":1987.014,"body":"So the structure is still"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1983.744,"endTime":1987.014,"body":"standing after the contents has"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1987.014,"endTime":1989.094,"body":"gone in the structure itself"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1987.014,"endTime":1989.094,"body":"has stopped burning and that's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1989.094,"endTime":1992.334,"body":"where you'll find some, some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1989.094,"endTime":1992.334,"body":"great work on auto extinction"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1992.334,"endTime":1995.264,"body":"by the likes of Alistair Bartlet"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1992.334,"endTime":1995.264,"body":"from the university of Edinburgh"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1995.264,"endTime":1999.104,"body":"Rick Emberley from a UQ and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1995.264,"endTime":1999.104,"body":"Carmen Gorska have all been"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1999.614,"endTime":2003.194,"body":"working in this space over the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":1999.614,"endTime":2003.194,"body":"last sort of fiveor so years."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2003.654,"endTime":2006.002,"body":"Surviving"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2003.654,"endTime":2006.002,"body":"of the structure is not that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2006.002,"endTime":2008.372,"body":"it did not collapse within"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2006.002,"endTime":2008.372,"body":"the certain amount of time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2008.372,"endTime":2012.002,"body":"It's also means that it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2008.372,"endTime":2012.002,"body":"can be fixed and used once"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2012.002,"endTime":2013.172,"body":"again, after the fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2013.622,"endTime":2013.952,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2014.132,"endTime":2017.182,"body":"Well, I mean, fix"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2014.132,"endTime":2017.182,"body":"and reuse is where you kind of,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2017.182,"endTime":2021.662,"body":"you move from life safety, into"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2017.182,"endTime":2021.662,"body":"resilience and recoverability."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2021.662,"endTime":2024.672,"body":"So I would say purely from"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2021.662,"endTime":2024.672,"body":"a life safety objective, and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2024.692,"endTime":2028.412,"body":"that's not to say is societaly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2024.692,"endTime":2028.412,"body":"accepted or to have to demolish"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2028.412,"endTime":2031.352,"body":"a building after a fire, but"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2028.412,"endTime":2031.352,"body":"from a life safety purview,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2031.982,"endTime":2033.812,"body":"it standing up at the end."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2034.162,"endTime":2037.062,"body":"After the fire brigade of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2034.162,"endTime":2037.062,"body":"intervened is arguably enough"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2037.302,"endTime":2040.722,"body":"to satisfy that very narrow"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2037.302,"endTime":2040.722,"body":"focus of where the regulations"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2040.722,"endTime":2042.402,"body":"currently put their attention."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2042.552,"endTime":2042.882,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2043.152,"endTime":2043.722,"body":"Understood."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2044.002,"endTime":2046.762,"body":"Now coming back to the physics,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2044.002,"endTime":2046.762,"body":"you mentioned the autoignition,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2046.782,"endTime":2050.142,"body":"and previously you have also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2046.782,"endTime":2050.142,"body":"mentioned the we'll use of char"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2050.472,"endTime":2054.682,"body":"as in a way thermal insulation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2050.472,"endTime":2054.682,"body":"for the healthy timber inside"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2054.752,"endTime":2056.032,"body":"the structural element."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2056.482,"endTime":2059.642,"body":"But now the engineered"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2056.482,"endTime":2059.642,"body":"timber comes into the market."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2059.642,"endTime":2063.302,"body":"And the difference between"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2059.642,"endTime":2063.302,"body":"engineered timber and the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2063.332,"endTime":2067.012,"body":"natural mass timber is that It's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2063.332,"endTime":2067.012,"body":"structure is much more complex."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2067.055,"endTime":2071.735,"body":"You have layers, which you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2067.055,"endTime":2071.735,"body":"may lose and lose the chart"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2071.735,"endTime":2074.475,"body":"insullation with them in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2071.735,"endTime":2074.475,"body":"process we call delamination."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2075.085,"endTime":2078.985,"body":"And I assume for technologies"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2075.085,"endTime":2078.985,"body":"where you use nails or other"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2078.985,"endTime":2083.575,"body":"doubles or something, similar"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2078.985,"endTime":2083.575,"body":"things can happen where you lose"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2083.605,"endTime":2087.595,"body":"chunks of all the structure,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2083.605,"endTime":2087.595,"body":"and then suddenly expose that."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2087.645,"endTime":2087.945,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2087.955,"endTime":2089.965,"body":"Let's call it glue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2087.955,"endTime":2089.965,"body":"line integrity failure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2090.035,"endTime":2090.965,"body":"overdelamination."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2091.015,"endTime":2095.605,"body":"So I think delamination has"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2091.015,"endTime":2095.605,"body":"this sort of bad image of huge"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2095.605,"endTime":2098.455,"body":"surface areas, peeling from"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2095.605,"endTime":2098.455,"body":"the underside of the slab."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2098.455,"endTime":2100.555,"body":"And I don't think that's what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2098.455,"endTime":2100.555,"body":"we're really talking about here."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2100.555,"endTime":2103.685,"body":"What we're talking about is sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2100.555,"endTime":2103.685,"body":"of the char losing its adhesion"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2103.795,"endTime":2105.115,"body":"and, and ultimately detaching."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2105.178,"endTime":2108.182,"body":"To my mind, at least there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2105.178,"endTime":2108.182,"body":"the glue line integrity failure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2108.182,"endTime":2111.232,"body":"part of the problem is secondary"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2108.182,"endTime":2111.232,"body":"to the fire dynamics part"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2111.322,"endTime":2114.352,"body":"and that you have combustible"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2111.322,"endTime":2114.352,"body":"surface area, and that changes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2114.352,"endTime":2117.462,"body":"the fire dynamics and what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2114.352,"endTime":2117.462,"body":"the glue line unpredictability"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2117.462,"endTime":2120.482,"body":"doing , is just introducing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2117.462,"endTime":2120.482,"body":"some complexity into an"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2120.482,"endTime":2121.832,"body":"already complex problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2122.622,"endTime":2125.782,"body":"I think to some extent"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2122.622,"endTime":2125.782,"body":"we're developing a bit of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2125.852,"endTime":2128.972,"body":"an adhesive obsession, or"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2125.852,"endTime":2128.972,"body":"almost an, a decent apathy"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2128.972,"endTime":2133.542,"body":"where, if we think we can"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2128.972,"endTime":2133.542,"body":"prevent glue line integrity,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2133.542,"endTime":2134.412,"body":"failure, then we've solved."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2135.082,"endTime":2136.232,"body":"And I don't think that's true."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2136.872,"endTime":2140.702,"body":"I think even if you, avoid,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2136.872,"endTime":2140.702,"body":"that integrity failure,  you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2140.702,"endTime":2142.922,"body":"can still have a bad outcome"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2140.702,"endTime":2142.922,"body":"in terms of your compartment,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2142.922,"endTime":2144.002,"body":"not self extinguishing."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2144.002,"endTime":2147.122,"body":"And if you go to something"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2144.002,"endTime":2147.122,"body":"like Carmen Gorska's PhD, you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2147.122,"endTime":2149.792,"body":"see that she, she found in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2147.122,"endTime":2149.792,"body":"her bench scale experiments,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2149.792,"endTime":2152.335,"body":"a tipping point where, over"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2149.792,"endTime":2152.335,"body":"a certain percentage surface"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2152.335,"endTime":2155.215,"body":"area exposed, the compartment"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2152.335,"endTime":2155.215,"body":"can continue to burn, even"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2155.215,"endTime":2158.125,"body":"if delamination or glue line"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2155.215,"endTime":2158.125,"body":"integrity failure happened."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2158.309,"endTime":2162.559,"body":"it's a real challenge in terms"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2158.309,"endTime":2162.559,"body":"of the unpredictability and what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2162.559,"endTime":2166.891,"body":"that detachment does, because"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2162.559,"endTime":2166.891,"body":"as you mentioned, a key thing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2166.941,"endTime":2170.081,"body":"in the self extinction part is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2166.941,"endTime":2170.081,"body":"is that kind of energy balance"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2170.081,"endTime":2173.861,"body":"or the pyrolysis from, so you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2170.081,"endTime":2173.861,"body":"have an external heat flux"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2174.041,"endTime":2178.171,"body":"that's received at the surface"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2174.041,"endTime":2178.171,"body":"of the word and you have some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2178.171,"endTime":2181.051,"body":"losses and convection and ranges"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2178.171,"endTime":2181.051,"body":"of losses at the surfaces."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2181.081,"endTime":2183.251,"body":"There's not all of it as"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2181.081,"endTime":2183.251,"body":"absorbed  and in a certain"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2183.251,"endTime":2186.596,"body":"amount of that heat flux makes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2183.251,"endTime":2186.596,"body":"it through the char layer to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2186.596,"endTime":2189.896,"body":"pyrolysis front and then some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2186.596,"endTime":2189.896,"body":"of that is absorbed or conducted"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2189.896,"endTime":2191.336,"body":"deeper into the section."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2192.056,"endTime":2194.886,"body":"And what we know from these"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2192.056,"endTime":2194.886,"body":"PhDs I mentioned previously"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2194.886,"endTime":2198.066,"body":"is there's kind of a critical"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2194.886,"endTime":2198.066,"body":"mass loss rate for that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2198.066,"endTime":2199.296,"body":"flaming combustion to continue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2199.346,"endTime":2203.806,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2199.346,"endTime":2203.806,"body":"And what we know is that timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2203.806,"endTime":2207.523,"body":"heat source, but if you lose"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2203.806,"endTime":2207.523,"body":"the char layer, then what you're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2207.523,"endTime":2210.853,"body":"losing is a fairly significant"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2207.523,"endTime":2210.853,"body":"term in that energy balance"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2210.853,"endTime":2214.663,"body":"in terms of how much energy"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2210.853,"endTime":2214.663,"body":"is absorbed and how much is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2214.693,"endTime":2218.143,"body":"ultimately making it to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2214.693,"endTime":2218.143,"body":"pyrolysis front to continue to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2218.143,"endTime":2219.583,"body":"produce those combustible gases."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2220.243,"endTime":2224.449,"body":"So, I think the importance of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2220.243,"endTime":2224.449,"body":"the char fall off very much"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2224.449,"endTime":2226.489,"body":"depends on the configuration"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2224.449,"endTime":2226.489,"body":"of your compartment."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2226.561,"endTime":2229.521,"body":"The energy balance dictates,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2226.561,"endTime":2229.521,"body":"I think, and I think we've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2229.521,"endTime":2232.041,"body":"proven it in large-scale"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2229.521,"endTime":2232.041,"body":"experiments that people will"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2232.041,"endTime":2236.051,"body":"get to read about hopefully"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2232.041,"endTime":2236.051,"body":"in the next few months that if"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2236.051,"endTime":2239.651,"body":"you limit yourself to a single"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2236.051,"endTime":2239.651,"body":"exposed surface, particularly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2239.651,"endTime":2243.791,"body":"a ceiling and you have a glue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2239.651,"endTime":2243.791,"body":"line integrity failure, you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2243.791,"endTime":2246.821,"body":"can still have a good outcome"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2243.791,"endTime":2246.821,"body":"in terms of if the structure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2247.121,"endTime":2250.211,"body":"self extinguishing in terms of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2247.121,"endTime":2250.211,"body":"flaming combustion, smoldering"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2250.211,"endTime":2252.021,"body":"is a more complex matter."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2252.051,"endTime":2255.091,"body":"But in terms of the flaming"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2252.051,"endTime":2255.091,"body":"combustion you can have self"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2255.091,"endTime":2257.761,"body":"extinction or two extinction"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2255.091,"endTime":2257.761,"body":"after delamination has"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2257.761,"endTime":2260.241,"body":"happened, even with some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2257.761,"endTime":2260.241,"body":"quite extensive delamination"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2260.997,"endTime":2264.087,"body":"but you can, if you want to,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2260.997,"endTime":2264.087,"body":"you can remove some of that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2264.087,"endTime":2267.387,"body":"uncertainty or say remove,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2264.087,"endTime":2267.387,"body":"you can mitigate some of that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2267.387,"endTime":2269.907,"body":"uncertainty about the glue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2267.387,"endTime":2269.907,"body":"line integrity failure by using"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2269.907,"endTime":2270.807,"body":"different types of adhesive."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2271.205,"endTime":2274.175,"body":"Traditionally, or almost"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2271.205,"endTime":2274.175,"body":"exclusively up until"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2274.205,"endTime":2276.875,"body":"fairly recently as adopted"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2274.205,"endTime":2276.875,"body":"a polyurethane based"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2276.875,"endTime":2280.865,"body":"adhesive, which softens at"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2276.875,"endTime":2280.865,"body":"relatively low temperatures."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2281.285,"endTime":2283.325,"body":"And actually you can get"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2281.285,"endTime":2283.325,"body":"that detachment of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2283.325,"endTime":2286.115,"body":"char layer before the char"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2283.325,"endTime":2286.115,"body":"has reached the glue line."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2286.395,"endTime":2290.705,"body":"We're talking sort of anything,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2286.395,"endTime":2290.705,"body":"150, 200 degrees where without"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2290.705,"endTime":2291.755,"body":"glue starts to degrade."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2291.755,"endTime":2297.575,"body":"So some attention has gone"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2291.755,"endTime":2297.575,"body":"on to improving the, the sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2297.575,"endTime":2299.645,"body":"of thermal characteristics"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2297.575,"endTime":2299.645,"body":"of that adhesive."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2299.805,"endTime":2301.335,"body":"There's a few different options."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2301.445,"endTime":2303.965,"body":"You can not use a polyurethane"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2301.445,"endTime":2303.965,"body":"based adhesive there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2303.965,"endTime":2308.348,"body":"alternatives like melamine,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2303.965,"endTime":2308.348,"body":"urea formaldehyde, or PRF  which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2308.818,"endTime":2311.158,"body":"don't degrade to the same"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2308.818,"endTime":2311.158,"body":"extent at high temperature."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2311.188,"endTime":2314.458,"body":"So they, they kind of perform"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2311.188,"endTime":2314.458,"body":"in terms of stickability"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2314.458,"endTime":2317.938,"body":"terms, very similarly to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2314.458,"endTime":2317.938,"body":"char layer itself, but they"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2317.938,"endTime":2320.428,"body":"don't prevent a char fall off."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2321.358,"endTime":2323.758,"body":"Delay it or increase it at"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2321.358,"endTime":2323.758,"body":"the temperature at which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2323.758,"endTime":2326.968,"body":"it happens or reduce the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2323.758,"endTime":2326.968,"body":"extent to which it happens."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2327.028,"endTime":2329.878,"body":"But that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2327.028,"endTime":2329.878,"body":"also means that by delaying it,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2330.268,"endTime":2335.968,"body":"you're also creating a situation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2330.268,"endTime":2335.968,"body":"where what you exposed after"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2335.968,"endTime":2341.248,"body":"all is not, like, fresh wood"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2335.968,"endTime":2341.248,"body":"that's, about to ignite, but you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2341.248,"endTime":2346.578,"body":"would expose something between"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2341.248,"endTime":2346.578,"body":"a paralyzed wood to a char."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2346.665,"endTime":2348.342,"body":"yeah, th there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2346.665,"endTime":2348.342,"body":"that component and that's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2348.342,"endTime":2351.292,"body":"the time component that if"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2348.342,"endTime":2351.292,"body":"you, if you delay the char"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2351.342,"endTime":2354.282,"body":"fall off, then hopefully"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2351.342,"endTime":2354.282,"body":"you're at a point in the fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2354.282,"endTime":2357.022,"body":"where the heat flux is to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2354.282,"endTime":2357.022,"body":"surface substantially reduced."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2357.022,"endTime":2357.332,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2357.504,"endTime":2359.514,"body":"So there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2357.504,"endTime":2359.514,"body":"that, and then there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2359.514,"endTime":2362.074,"body":"been attention on modifying"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2359.514,"endTime":2362.074,"body":"polyurethane based adhesives."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2362.371,"endTime":2365.671,"body":"The perceived problem with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2362.371,"endTime":2365.671,"body":"the, MUS and the PRS is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2365.671,"endTime":2366.841,"body":"the formaldehyde component."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2367.201,"endTime":2371.341,"body":"You've got a nasty chemical,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2367.201,"endTime":2371.341,"body":"which I'm kind of selling"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2371.341,"endTime":2373.458,"body":"that as a solution in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2371.341,"endTime":2373.458,"body":"buildings, in which people"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2373.458,"endTime":2376.108,"body":"spend an awful lot of time"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2373.458,"endTime":2376.108,"body":"is can be quite challenging."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2376.108,"endTime":2378.368,"body":"So, it also comes with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2376.108,"endTime":2378.368,"body":"complexities in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2378.368,"endTime":2380.378,"body":"manufacturing process"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2378.368,"endTime":2380.378,"body":"of the CO2 itself."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2380.378,"endTime":2384.008,"body":"You often have to heat"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2380.378,"endTime":2384.008,"body":"curate and so polyurethane"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2384.008,"endTime":2385.628,"body":"is attractive for lots"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2384.008,"endTime":2385.628,"body":"of reasons it's here."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2385.628,"endTime":2388.778,"body":"So it's a nicer material for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2385.628,"endTime":2388.778,"body":"human beings to be around."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2388.838,"endTime":2391.628,"body":"And also you can produce"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2388.838,"endTime":2391.628,"body":"your CLT more quickly,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2391.628,"endTime":2393.578,"body":"which is important given the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2391.628,"endTime":2393.578,"body":"demand that you currently"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2393.578,"endTime":2394.398,"body":"have on the product."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2395.388,"endTime":2398.028,"body":"And so, for the U S"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2395.388,"endTime":2398.028,"body":"market, there was, modified"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2398.028,"endTime":2402.128,"body":"polyurethane, develops is called"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2398.028,"endTime":2402.128,"body":"HBX is a proprietary product by"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2402.128,"endTime":2405.728,"body":"Henkel and what that has shown"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2402.128,"endTime":2405.728,"body":"in some experiments that we've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2405.728,"endTime":2407.828,"body":"done and experiments by others."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2407.965,"endTime":2410.935,"body":"It reduces the susceptibility"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2407.965,"endTime":2410.935,"body":"for that glue line"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2410.935,"endTime":2411.655,"body":"integrity failure."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2411.665,"endTime":2415.045,"body":"It doesn't remove it altogether,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2411.665,"endTime":2415.045,"body":"but it definitely delays it."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2415.705,"endTime":2417.775,"body":"And it seems to have some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2415.705,"endTime":2417.775,"body":"interesting qualities in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2417.775,"endTime":2419.455,"body":"terms of what it does to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2417.775,"endTime":2419.455,"body":"the temperature profile,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2419.455,"endTime":2421.415,"body":"through the wood which"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2419.455,"endTime":2421.415,"body":"we're quite keen to explore."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2422.525,"endTime":2423.691,"body":"And what about the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2423.691,"endTime":2424.951,"body":"encapsulation strategy?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2424.951,"endTime":2427.521,"body":"Because you've mentioned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2424.951,"endTime":2427.521,"body":"for the compliance with ADB"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2427.531,"endTime":2431.761,"body":"would need a whole lot of,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2427.531,"endTime":2431.761,"body":"encapsulating boards to, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2431.761,"endTime":2435.351,"body":"cover the destruction, prevented"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2431.761,"endTime":2435.351,"body":"completely from taking  an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2435.381,"endTime":2436.671,"body":"active part in the fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2437.211,"endTime":2440.121,"body":"And is there some middle ground"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2437.211,"endTime":2440.121,"body":"where I didn't know, we can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2440.121,"endTime":2443.091,"body":"delay the moment where the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2440.121,"endTime":2443.091,"body":"timber becomes a part of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2443.091,"endTime":2445.191,"body":"fire and that's sufficient?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2445.291,"endTime":2447.011,"body":"It's a similar"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2445.291,"endTime":2447.011,"body":"sort of principle and   what the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2447.011,"endTime":2450.461,"body":"encapsulation of the lining is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2447.011,"endTime":2450.461,"body":"doing in that case is hopefully."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2450.486,"endTime":2453.78,"body":"staying intact long enough to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2450.486,"endTime":2453.78,"body":"get you to the point in the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2453.78,"endTime":2456.75,"body":"fire where they, the contents"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2453.78,"endTime":2456.75,"body":"of the room and the heat flux"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2456.75,"endTime":2459.09,"body":"and the contents of the room"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2456.75,"endTime":2459.09,"body":"is significantly reduced."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2459.79,"endTime":2463.5,"body":"Your strategy would be to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2459.79,"endTime":2463.5,"body":"impose that delay in terms of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2463.5,"endTime":2467.52,"body":"when the timber is involved"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2463.5,"endTime":2467.52,"body":"and ultimately, hopefully by"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2467.52,"endTime":2471.63,"body":"providing that encapsulation"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2467.52,"endTime":2471.63,"body":"mitigate the prospect of that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2471.63,"endTime":2474.42,"body":"glue line, integrity failure as"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2471.63,"endTime":2474.42,"body":"well, because you've insulated"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2474.42,"endTime":2478.05,"body":"the surface until ultimately"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2474.42,"endTime":2478.05,"body":"the timber becomes exposed."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2478.29,"endTime":2480.45,"body":"And hopefully by the time"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2478.29,"endTime":2480.45,"body":"the contents of the room and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2480.45,"endTime":2484.3,"body":"the structures potentially"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2480.45,"endTime":2484.3,"body":"self extinguished that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2484.4,"endTime":2487.09,"body":"critical temperature of such"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2484.4,"endTime":2487.09,"body":"a thing exists the adhesive"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2487.11,"endTime":2488.04,"body":"line hasn't been attained."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2488.79,"endTime":2491.79,"body":"So it's another strategy in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2488.79,"endTime":2491.79,"body":"delaying the propagation at"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2491.79,"endTime":2492.67,"body":"temperature through the wood."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2492.949,"endTime":2494.533,"body":"From,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2492.949,"endTime":2494.533,"body":"from this discussion, I really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2494.533,"endTime":2497.713,"body":"enjoyed the fact that there is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2494.533,"endTime":2497.713,"body":"some true engineering in that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2497.713,"endTime":2501.543,"body":"And we often said that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2497.713,"endTime":2501.543,"body":"we need to engineer this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2501.543,"endTime":2502.443,"body":"timber for buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2502.443,"endTime":2504.693,"body":"I didn't really understand"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2502.443,"endTime":2504.693,"body":"to what extent are we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2504.693,"endTime":2506.973,"body":"really able to engineer this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2504.693,"endTime":2506.973,"body":"because timber is timber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2507.393,"endTime":2510.653,"body":"And from here, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2507.393,"endTime":2510.653,"body":"sound solutions that actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2510.893,"endTime":2513.963,"body":"change this dynamics or the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2510.893,"endTime":2513.963,"body":"consequences of such a fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2514.105,"endTime":2517.025,"body":"Now let's, let's forget Danny"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2514.105,"endTime":2517.025,"body":"the scientists let's talk with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2517.025,"endTime":2520.195,"body":"Danny, the consultant and how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2517.025,"endTime":2520.195,"body":"do you, how do you sell that to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2520.195,"endTime":2523.285,"body":"an architect who would like to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2520.195,"endTime":2523.285,"body":"have an exposed wood surface?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2523.285,"endTime":2524.575,"body":"Because it's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2525.265,"endTime":2529.248,"body":"Is it even possible to maintain"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2525.265,"endTime":2529.248,"body":"aesthetics of a wood and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2529.248,"endTime":2531.108,"body":"create it into something safe?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2531.631,"endTime":2534.751,"body":"I would argue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2531.631,"endTime":2534.751,"body":"it is provided you work within"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2535.171,"endTime":2536.611,"body":"a pretty tight envelope."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2536.861,"endTime":2540.041,"body":"So we as OFR particularly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2536.861,"endTime":2540.041,"body":"dealing with taller buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2540.586,"endTime":2544.576,"body":"we have a series of, of ground"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2540.586,"endTime":2544.576,"body":"rules or, or kind of an envelope"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2544.576,"endTime":2548.326,"body":"that we're comfortable working"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2544.576,"endTime":2548.326,"body":"within, where we feel like the,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2549.016,"endTime":2553.366,"body":"the kind of the auto extinction"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2549.016,"endTime":2553.366,"body":"problem is, is simplified to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2553.366,"endTime":2557.416,"body":"most simple version you can get"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2553.366,"endTime":2557.416,"body":"in a building, which is a single"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2557.416,"endTime":2559.366,"body":"surface, typically a ceiling."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2559.503,"endTime":2562.643,"body":"And what, I'm a great believer"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2559.503,"endTime":2562.643,"body":"in, I, I feel like when we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2562.643,"endTime":2564.713,"body":"talk about we're going to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2562.643,"endTime":2564.713,"body":"build the world's tallest"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2564.713,"endTime":2566.993,"body":"timber building, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2564.713,"endTime":2566.993,"body":"be the biggest, the largest."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2566.993,"endTime":2569.033,"body":"It's going to have the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2566.993,"endTime":2569.033,"body":"most volume that they're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2569.033,"endTime":2570.383,"body":"kind of vanity projects."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2570.463,"endTime":2574.003,"body":"They're not necessarily projects"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2570.463,"endTime":2574.003,"body":"that are a good engineering."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2574.033,"endTime":2577.363,"body":"Um, and the good engineering"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2574.033,"endTime":2577.363,"body":"comes from using different"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2577.363,"endTime":2579.103,"body":"materials where they work best."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2579.103,"endTime":2583.203,"body":"So, we are very supportive"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2579.103,"endTime":2583.203,"body":"of hybrid structures."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2583.573,"endTime":2586.323,"body":"Whereby you use things"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2583.573,"endTime":2586.323,"body":"like steel for your"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2586.323,"endTime":2587.613,"body":"vertical load paths."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2587.943,"endTime":2592.283,"body":"If you want long spans, you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2587.943,"endTime":2592.283,"body":"use, steel beams, and actually"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2592.283,"endTime":2595.043,"body":"you make use of the CLT where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2592.283,"endTime":2595.043,"body":"you might have a concrete slab."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2595.703,"endTime":2599.033,"body":"So a lot of our buildings will"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2595.703,"endTime":2599.033,"body":"be a mixture of materials."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2599.033,"endTime":2602.063,"body":"So it might be a steel"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2599.033,"endTime":2602.063,"body":"frame with a CLT floor"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2602.403,"endTime":2603.993,"body":"maybe even a concrete core."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2604.443,"endTime":2608.283,"body":"And then what we've got is a,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2604.443,"endTime":2608.283,"body":"is in a nerve combustible frame"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2608.403,"endTime":2611.043,"body":"that can demonstrably survive"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2608.403,"endTime":2611.043,"body":"the full duration of fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2611.043,"endTime":2613.473,"body":"It's not contributing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2611.043,"endTime":2613.473,"body":"as a source of fuel."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2613.863,"endTime":2617.313,"body":"And you've got a single"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2613.863,"endTime":2617.313,"body":"surface where in most cases,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2617.433,"endTime":2620.103,"body":"as we've evidenced for our"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2617.433,"endTime":2620.103,"body":"large scale testing, even if"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2620.103,"endTime":2623.133,"body":"you have a glue line integrity"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2620.103,"endTime":2623.133,"body":"failure, you can have that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2623.133,"endTime":2624.363,"body":"auto extinction outcome."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2624.615,"endTime":2626.015,"body":"And that's kind"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2624.615,"endTime":2626.015,"body":"of where we stay."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2626.115,"endTime":2629.815,"body":"That's that's we identify where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2626.115,"endTime":2629.815,"body":"the big uncertainties exist"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2629.815,"endTime":2633.505,"body":"and as consultants, we don't"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2629.815,"endTime":2633.505,"body":"go there until somebody has"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2633.52,"endTime":2636.053,"body":"generated that knowledge and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2633.52,"endTime":2636.053,"body":"has helped solve that problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2636.753,"endTime":2640.853,"body":"What we do separately to that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2636.753,"endTime":2640.853,"body":"is we work hand in hand with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2640.853,"endTime":2644.763,"body":"a lot of academic and research"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2640.853,"endTime":2644.763,"body":"institutions to try and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2644.763,"endTime":2647.553,"body":"understand things that might"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2644.763,"endTime":2647.553,"body":"open up more opportunities"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2647.553,"endTime":2649.293,"body":"in the consultancies"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2647.553,"endTime":2649.293,"body":"part of the business."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2649.293,"endTime":2652.753,"body":"So I know you've had Colleen"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2649.293,"endTime":2652.753,"body":"Wade on who who's spoken"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2652.753,"endTime":2655.873,"body":"about our collaboration on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2652.753,"endTime":2655.873,"body":"B risk and how we've started"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2655.873,"endTime":2659.473,"body":"to build a zone model where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2655.873,"endTime":2659.473,"body":"that combustion of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2659.473,"endTime":2662.864,"body":"enclosure is a source term"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2659.473,"endTime":2662.864,"body":"in enclosure energy balance."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2662.864,"endTime":2665.894,"body":"And we can start to use that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2662.864,"endTime":2665.894,"body":"and understand that in terms"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2665.894,"endTime":2668.464,"body":"of how it might enable us to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2665.894,"endTime":2668.464,"body":"understand, enclosure fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2668.464,"endTime":2671.994,"body":"dynamics and also the external"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2668.464,"endTime":2671.994,"body":"flaming part of the problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2672.024,"endTime":2674.624,"body":"So that's one sort of investment"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2672.024,"endTime":2674.624,"body":"in time that we've made."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2674.704,"endTime":2677.724,"body":"Outside of that, we've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2674.704,"endTime":2677.724,"body":"currently who funded two PhDs."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2677.754,"endTime":2681.489,"body":"We've got one at the University"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2677.754,"endTime":2681.489,"body":"of Edinburgh, really bright,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2681.589,"endTime":2684.889,"body":"a nice student Antonela oli"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2681.589,"endTime":2684.889,"body":"who is looking at the adhesive"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2684.909,"endTime":2688.179,"body":"behavior specifically, and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2684.909,"endTime":2688.179,"body":"actually wanting to understand"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2688.179,"endTime":2691.179,"body":"the degradation of the adhesives"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2688.179,"endTime":2691.179,"body":"that we commonly use in CLT."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2691.179,"endTime":2694.299,"body":"So she's been supervised by"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2691.179,"endTime":2694.299,"body":"Luke and this is where it's at"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2694.299,"endTime":2696.642,"body":"the moment having a placement"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2694.299,"endTime":2696.642,"body":"and we've, also got a student"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2696.672,"endTime":2698.352,"body":"at the University of Sheffield."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2698.352,"endTime":2702.252,"body":"Who's kind of looking at it"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2698.352,"endTime":2702.252,"body":"from a more structural mechanics"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2702.252,"endTime":2705.052,"body":"perspective rather than the sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2702.252,"endTime":2705.052,"body":"of five dynamics perspectives."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2705.052,"endTime":2708.772,"body":"They're more in terms of how can"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2705.052,"endTime":2708.772,"body":"we model the structural response"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2708.772,"endTime":2713.392,"body":"of CLT and in hybridized systems"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2708.772,"endTime":2713.392,"body":"and in particularly with a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2713.392,"endTime":2716.602,"body":"view to almost like how you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2713.392,"endTime":2716.602,"body":"might incorporate that into a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2716.602,"endTime":2719.832,"body":"tool like Vulcan potentially,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2716.602,"endTime":2719.832,"body":"as a additional functionality."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2720.582,"endTime":2724.062,"body":"So, we accept, we don't, we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2720.582,"endTime":2724.062,"body":"don't have all the answers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2724.062,"endTime":2725.022,"body":"to build all the buildings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2725.042,"endTime":2726.672,"body":"Every architect"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2725.042,"endTime":2726.672,"body":"could possibly want."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2726.855,"endTime":2729.96,"body":"But we are quite robust in our"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2726.855,"endTime":2729.96,"body":"positions in terms of where we"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2729.96,"endTime":2733.02,"body":"think they should go and where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2729.96,"endTime":2733.02,"body":"we'll support them and going."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2733.18,"endTime":2735.95,"body":"I think that's an important"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2733.18,"endTime":2735.95,"body":"part of why we kind of get the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2735.95,"endTime":2738.71,"body":"projects that we do is, we're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2735.95,"endTime":2738.71,"body":"very transparent and honest"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2738.72,"endTime":2742.19,"body":"upfront about what, what you're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2738.72,"endTime":2742.19,"body":"doing and what you're selling."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2742.31,"endTime":2744.68,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2742.31,"endTime":2744.68,"body":"think, here you, you show the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2744.68,"endTime":2748.36,"body":"pathways, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2744.68,"endTime":2748.36,"body":"want, a net negative carbon"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2748.36,"endTime":2751.47,"body":"building with the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2748.36,"endTime":2751.47,"body":"structure made of engineered"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2751.53,"endTime":2754.8,"body":"timber elements, there's a way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2751.53,"endTime":2754.8,"body":"to encapsulate them and make"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2754.8,"endTime":2757.88,"body":"sure they do not participate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2754.8,"endTime":2757.88,"body":"in the fire as a source term."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2758.19,"endTime":2761.56,"body":"If you own the aesthetics,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2758.19,"endTime":2761.56,"body":"you can settle on the exposed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2761.56,"endTime":2764.74,"body":"ceiling and with a single"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2761.56,"endTime":2764.74,"body":"surface and the knowledge we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2764.74,"endTime":2768.29,"body":"have, it's possible to create"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2764.74,"endTime":2768.29,"body":"this as a safe solution."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2768.59,"endTime":2770.87,"body":"If you want a combination of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2768.59,"endTime":2770.87,"body":"both, maybe there are ways"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2770.87,"endTime":2774.01,"body":"to compensate for the loss"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2770.87,"endTime":2774.01,"body":"of safety due to the, do you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2774.01,"endTime":2776.21,"body":"do these choices by altering?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2776.21,"endTime":2778.07,"body":"I didn't know the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2776.21,"endTime":2778.07,"body":"building strategy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2778.52,"endTime":2781.61,"body":"There are tools that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2778.52,"endTime":2781.61,"body":"that we have, so."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2782.305,"endTime":2785.535,"body":"It truly, is an engineer's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2782.305,"endTime":2785.535,"body":"way, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2785.565,"endTime":2786.915,"body":"create a safe building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2787.315,"endTime":2790.125,"body":"You just have to follow"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2787.315,"endTime":2790.125,"body":"that and not fall into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2790.125,"endTime":2794.265,"body":"the equivalency of fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2790.125,"endTime":2794.265,"body":"resistance solves the issue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2794.265,"endTime":2797.565,"body":"And we don't care anymore"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2794.265,"endTime":2797.565,"body":"because the number behind"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.565,"endTime":2800.775,"body":"my letter is, as the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.565,"endTime":2800.775,"body":"law says it has to be."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2801.255,"endTime":2803.985,"body":"So, so that's truly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2801.255,"endTime":2803.985,"body":"promising because that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2803.985,"endTime":2805.095,"body":"what engineering should be."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2805.255,"endTime":2805.475,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2805.61,"endTime":2805.85,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2805.85,"endTime":2809.05,"body":"You have a huge amount of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2805.85,"endTime":2809.05,"body":"architectural parameters that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2809.09,"endTime":2812.68,"body":"you can play with that kind of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2809.09,"endTime":2812.68,"body":"drive that extinction outcomes."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2812.72,"endTime":2813.74,"body":"You want huge openings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2813.77,"endTime":2815.81,"body":"You want to maximize your"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2813.77,"endTime":2815.81,"body":"regulative and convective"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2815.81,"endTime":2818.18,"body":"losses from your enclosure,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2815.81,"endTime":2818.18,"body":"but you have to balance that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2818.18,"endTime":2821.72,"body":"against the kind of the exposure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2818.18,"endTime":2821.72,"body":"hazard, the space separation"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2821.72,"endTime":2824.93,"body":"hazard that might impose on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2821.72,"endTime":2824.93,"body":"your neighbor and the benefit"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2824.93,"endTime":2827.93,"body":"of a big ventilation area is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2824.93,"endTime":2827.93,"body":"also your external flaming is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2828.03,"endTime":2831.36,"body":"significantly reduced because"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2828.03,"endTime":2831.36,"body":"you're unlikely to have a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2831.36,"endTime":2833.97,"body":"ventilation control fire, or"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2831.36,"endTime":2833.97,"body":"it's going to be substantially"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2834.057,"endTime":2835.347,"body":"less ventilation control."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2835.377,"endTime":2838.887,"body":"So that's one parameter"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2835.377,"endTime":2838.887,"body":"that is within the control"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2838.887,"endTime":2839.787,"body":"of the design team."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2840.457,"endTime":2843.097,"body":"You have the amount of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2840.457,"endTime":2843.097,"body":"combustible surface areas"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2843.097,"endTime":2846.187,"body":"and their proximity to one"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2843.097,"endTime":2846.187,"body":"another is another important"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2846.187,"endTime":2848.377,"body":"parameter that you can control."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2848.377,"endTime":2850.377,"body":"Or if you if you don't want to."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2851.252,"endTime":2853.052,"body":"Or if you're concerned about"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2851.252,"endTime":2853.052,"body":"that extinction outcome,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2853.052,"endTime":2855.362,"body":"you might fully encapsulate"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2853.052,"endTime":2855.362,"body":"some walls and prevent them"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2855.362,"endTime":2858.332,"body":"from becoming involved in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2855.362,"endTime":2858.332,"body":"and strategically exposed"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2858.332,"endTime":2860.622,"body":"parts or some of other"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2858.332,"endTime":2860.622,"body":"surfaces, depending upon"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2860.622,"endTime":2861.552,"body":"how close they are together."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2862.152,"endTime":2864.632,"body":"So we're definitely getting"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2862.152,"endTime":2864.632,"body":"a handle on the things"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2864.632,"endTime":2865.502,"body":"that drive the problems."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2865.502,"endTime":2867.932,"body":"But I can't say that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2865.502,"endTime":2867.932,"body":"we're all the way there."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2868.032,"endTime":2872.302,"body":"And I think there is a duty"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2868.032,"endTime":2872.302,"body":"on those that want to use the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2872.302,"endTime":2875.482,"body":"materials and know selling"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2872.302,"endTime":2875.482,"body":"the materials to make a pretty"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2875.482,"endTime":2880.432,"body":"big investment in research,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2875.482,"endTime":2880.432,"body":"and fair play and credit where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2880.432,"endTime":2882.532,"body":"it's due to the CLT suppliers."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2882.532,"endTime":2884.152,"body":"They've, they've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2882.532,"endTime":2884.152,"body":"made that first step."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2884.882,"endTime":2888.202,"body":"And they're allowing us to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2884.882,"endTime":2888.202,"body":"start to develop this envelope"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2888.352,"endTime":2889.252,"body":"that we can work within."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2889.882,"endTime":2892.462,"body":"But I think if people"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2889.882,"endTime":2892.462,"body":"genuinely want to expand that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2892.462,"endTime":2895.522,"body":"envelope, then the investment"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2892.462,"endTime":2895.522,"body":"needs to be made on, on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2895.522,"endTime":2898.482,"body":"far more research than is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2895.522,"endTime":2898.482,"body":"currently being undertaken."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2899.092,"endTime":2901.207,"body":"And I think"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2899.092,"endTime":2901.207,"body":"it's really worth investing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2901.207,"endTime":2904.477,"body":"because the engineered timber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2901.207,"endTime":2904.477,"body":"is just the tip of the iceberg."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2905.177,"endTime":2908.187,"body":"We are entering a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2905.177,"endTime":2908.187,"body":"promising world of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2908.187,"endTime":2909.597,"body":"engineered bamboo products."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2910.047,"endTime":2915.117,"body":"There's engineered hemp products"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2910.047,"endTime":2915.117,"body":"that can be used as a structure,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2915.147,"endTime":2916.347,"body":"elements may be in the future."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2916.737,"endTime":2920.017,"body":"This race for sustainability"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2916.737,"endTime":2920.017,"body":"and finding new materials,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2920.447,"endTime":2923.567,"body":"for our buildings is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2920.447,"endTime":2923.567,"body":"really accelerating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2923.59,"endTime":2926.56,"body":"And it seems that all the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2923.59,"endTime":2926.56,"body":"new materials have the same"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2926.87,"endTime":2928.22,"body":"let's say flammability issues."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2928.28,"endTime":2930.62,"body":"It's like when, when you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2928.28,"endTime":2930.62,"body":"discover a magical material"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2930.65,"endTime":2933.14,"body":"that solves all of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2930.65,"endTime":2933.14,"body":"problems, it's suddenly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2933.19,"endTime":2937.42,"body":"it's either killing you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2933.19,"endTime":2937.42,"body":"biologically or burns for us."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2937.56,"endTime":2940.63,"body":"For some reason, we were not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2937.56,"endTime":2940.63,"body":"having great luck in there,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2940.84,"endTime":2944.05,"body":"but it's great that people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2940.84,"endTime":2944.05,"body":"like you are finding solutions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2944.05,"endTime":2948.07,"body":"And hopefully what we learn now"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2944.05,"endTime":2948.07,"body":"about engineer timber, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2948.07,"endTime":2951.19,"body":"you know, this compartment,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2948.07,"endTime":2951.19,"body":"fire dynamics discussions,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2951.52,"endTime":2956.025,"body":"these opening factors and these,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2951.52,"endTime":2956.025,"body":"participation within the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2956.025,"endTime":2959.025,"body":"and at what stage of the fire,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2956.025,"endTime":2959.025,"body":"the material participates,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2959.365,"endTime":2961.515,"body":"it's not just engineered"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2959.365,"endTime":2961.515,"body":"timber it's absolutely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2961.515,"endTime":2963.855,"body":"universal for any material you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2961.515,"endTime":2963.855,"body":"would have in the building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2964.335,"endTime":2968.435,"body":"And I think this fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2964.335,"endTime":2968.435,"body":"discussions are maybe that we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2968.445,"endTime":2971.495,"body":"should have started at that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2968.445,"endTime":2971.495,"body":"point before we started running,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2971.855,"endTime":2976.015,"body":"as you said, we've run before"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2971.855,"endTime":2976.015,"body":"we walked, but I'm happy that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2976.095,"endTime":2980.805,"body":"we can now contribute to this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2976.095,"endTime":2980.805,"body":"fundamental knowledge and with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2980.805,"endTime":2983.955,"body":"every experiment, with every"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2980.805,"endTime":2983.955,"body":"PhD, with every paper, we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2983.955,"endTime":2988.425,"body":"know a bit better and we gain"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2983.955,"endTime":2988.425,"body":"confidence in how to deliver"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2988.425,"endTime":2989.955,"body":"safety in such buildings."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2990.754,"endTime":2991.75,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2990.754,"endTime":2991.75,"body":"sustainability."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2991.75,"endTime":2994.81,"body":"Absolutely, can't be at"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2991.75,"endTime":2994.81,"body":"the expense of safety."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2994.82,"endTime":2997.82,"body":"And this is the common"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2994.82,"endTime":2997.82,"body":"argument that's made that the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2997.83,"endTime":3001.61,"body":"fire engineers are kind of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":2997.83,"endTime":3001.61,"body":"becoming an obstacle to this"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3001.61,"endTime":3006.67,"body":"sort of sustainable utopia but"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3001.61,"endTime":3006.67,"body":"a disaster because we got a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3006.67,"endTime":3010.21,"body":"design wrong and ultimately sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3006.67,"endTime":3010.21,"body":"of the legislative landscape"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3010.21,"endTime":3013.24,"body":"being what it is, probably"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3010.21,"endTime":3013.24,"body":"a ban on that material as a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3013.24,"endTime":3014.95,"body":"consequence of such a disaster."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3015.38,"endTime":3016.43,"body":"That's not sustainable."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3017.355,"endTime":3019.935,"body":"If you want to use these"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3017.355,"endTime":3019.935,"body":"materials and for them to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3019.935,"endTime":3022.665,"body":"have some kind of longevity,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3019.935,"endTime":3022.665,"body":"then you've got to understand"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3022.665,"endTime":3023.475,"body":"what you understand."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3023.475,"endTime":3025.035,"body":"You've got to understand"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3023.475,"endTime":3025.035,"body":"what you don't understand"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3025.035,"endTime":3027.825,"body":"most importantly, and you've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3025.035,"endTime":3027.825,"body":"got to start to fill those"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3027.825,"endTime":3029.545,"body":"knowledge gaps with research."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3029.615,"endTime":3031.555,"body":"And if you're not willing"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3029.615,"endTime":3031.555,"body":"to do with that, then you've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3031.555,"endTime":3035.245,"body":"got to operate within a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3031.555,"endTime":3035.245,"body":"quite strict bubble of what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3035.245,"endTime":3037.285,"body":"we currently understand,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3035.245,"endTime":3037.285,"body":"which might mean lots of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3037.285,"endTime":3040.285,"body":"plasterboard, or it might mean"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3037.285,"endTime":3040.285,"body":"quite severe limitations on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3040.285,"endTime":3041.395,"body":"how much you can have exposed."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3041.715,"endTime":3043.335,"body":"Actually,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3041.715,"endTime":3043.335,"body":"a lot of plasterboard is not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3043.335,"endTime":3046.095,"body":"a bad outcome because the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3043.335,"endTime":3046.095,"body":"at least to safety, I'm more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3046.095,"endTime":3049.005,"body":"worried about forgetting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3046.095,"endTime":3049.005,"body":"about the issues because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3049.575,"endTime":3050.895,"body":"the tests said it's okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3050.925,"endTime":3053.985,"body":"If you judge the fish by its"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3050.925,"endTime":3053.985,"body":"ability to climb a tree, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3053.985,"endTime":3055.305,"body":"not a really good climber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3055.305,"endTime":3055.605,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3055.605,"endTime":3058.655,"body":"And I have a feeling  we're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3055.605,"endTime":3058.655,"body":"using fire resistance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3058.655,"endTime":3060.775,"body":"test to test, firewood"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3058.655,"endTime":3060.775,"body":"engineered products."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3060.775,"endTime":3063.355,"body":"And it may be not the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3060.775,"endTime":3063.355,"body":"best measure to actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3063.445,"endTime":3065.575,"body":"quantify complexity of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3063.445,"endTime":3065.575,"body":"the fire behavior of that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3065.995,"endTime":3069.004,"body":"Okay, man, For some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3065.995,"endTime":3069.004,"body":"parting words where are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3069.004,"endTime":3072.054,"body":"you heading now with your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3069.004,"endTime":3072.054,"body":"research on engineered wood?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3072.084,"endTime":3075.404,"body":"Because I know it's, not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3072.084,"endTime":3075.404,"body":"finished and I know there are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3075.464,"endTime":3076.994,"body":"exciting things on the horizon."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3077.889,"endTime":3078.429,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3078.529,"endTime":3081.529,"body":"So this Structural Timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3078.529,"endTime":3081.529,"body":"Association project that I"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3081.529,"endTime":3086.059,"body":"mentioned has been running for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3081.529,"endTime":3086.059,"body":"a good 18 months, at least."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3086.059,"endTime":3088.099,"body":"So we started out with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3086.059,"endTime":3088.099,"body":"this compliance roadmap,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3088.159,"endTime":3091.129,"body":"trying to give people good"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3088.159,"endTime":3091.129,"body":"information about what evidence"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3091.129,"endTime":3092.119,"body":"they need when and why."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3092.909,"endTime":3096.239,"body":"And working with ITB we've"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3092.909,"endTime":3096.239,"body":"just completed a program of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3096.839,"endTime":3101.199,"body":"what was for large scale, kind"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3096.839,"endTime":3101.199,"body":"of office type compartments"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3101.249,"endTime":3104.429,"body":"was what we're reigning for"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3101.249,"endTime":3104.429,"body":"looking at extinction and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3104.429,"endTime":3106.809,"body":"the relationship with glue"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3104.429,"endTime":3106.809,"body":"line integrity failure."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3107.499,"endTime":3109.659,"body":"And actually getting some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3107.499,"endTime":3109.659,"body":"really good data in terms"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3109.659,"endTime":3113.009,"body":"of heat fluxes to different"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3109.659,"endTime":3113.009,"body":"surfaces, heat fluxes, to the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3113.009,"endTime":3115.819,"body":"floor in advance of the fire"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3113.009,"endTime":3115.819,"body":"and starting to understand how"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3115.819,"endTime":3118.519,"body":"fires might spread through large"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3115.819,"endTime":3118.519,"body":"compartments without necessarily"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3118.519,"endTime":3122.059,"body":"having to undertake absolutely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3118.519,"endTime":3122.059,"body":"massive compartment tests."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3122.059,"endTime":3126.079,"body":"We've got really good data in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3122.059,"endTime":3126.079,"body":"terms of, heat fluxes that will"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3126.079,"endTime":3128.419,"body":"allow us to make some estimates"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3126.079,"endTime":3128.419,"body":"of what spread rates are likely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3128.419,"endTime":3129.499,"body":"to be three compartments."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3130.039,"endTime":3132.259,"body":"And also to do that with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3130.039,"endTime":3132.259,"body":"different adhesive types."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3132.889,"endTime":3136.489,"body":"Because it, I think it's all"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3132.889,"endTime":3136.489,"body":"well and good sort of advocating"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3136.489,"endTime":3139.455,"body":"particular types of decent,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3136.489,"endTime":3139.455,"body":"but if they're not commercially"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3139.455,"endTime":3144.365,"body":"available or, the supply rate"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3139.455,"endTime":3144.365,"body":"is fairly limited at this point"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3144.365,"endTime":3147.305,"body":"in time, then we perhaps have"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3144.365,"endTime":3147.305,"body":"to look at different ways of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3147.305,"endTime":3149.835,"body":"approaching the problem with"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3147.305,"endTime":3149.835,"body":"lamella thickness and perhaps"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3149.835,"endTime":3151.635,"body":"not so heat resistant adhesives."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3152.025,"endTime":3154.785,"body":"So that's allowed us"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3152.025,"endTime":3154.785,"body":"to sort of look at that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3154.895,"endTime":3157.455,"body":"those different options"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3154.895,"endTime":3157.455,"body":"to attacking that problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3157.779,"endTime":3162.649,"body":"And then the say names or the in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3157.779,"endTime":3162.649,"body":"effect ban has done  in England,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3162.749,"endTime":3165.759,"body":"for residential buildings, it's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3162.749,"endTime":3165.759,"body":"pretty much killed a market"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3165.759,"endTime":3169.479,"body":"where you can build residential"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3165.759,"endTime":3169.479,"body":"buildings out of mass timber or"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3169.479,"endTime":3170.559,"body":"anything combustible, frankly."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3171.349,"endTime":3173.219,"body":"And that's quite a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3171.349,"endTime":3173.219,"body":"reasonable position."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3173.219,"endTime":3175.289,"body":"I mean, there's, there's a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3173.219,"endTime":3175.289,"body":"huge lack of trust in people"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3175.289,"endTime":3177.749,"body":"generally to use combustible"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3175.289,"endTime":3177.749,"body":"materials in buildings"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3177.989,"endTime":3178.979,"body":"where people live and sleep."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3179.189,"endTime":3182.719,"body":"But as I said at the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3179.189,"endTime":3182.719,"body":"beginning, I think the timber"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3182.719,"endTime":3185.319,"body":"in the residential space is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3182.719,"endTime":3185.319,"body":"potentially quite important."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3185.319,"endTime":3187.649,"body":"Cause it's where the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3185.319,"endTime":3187.649,"body":"significant amount of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3187.649,"endTime":3189.299,"body":"buildings stock resides."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3189.389,"endTime":3192.429,"body":"So if you really want to use"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3189.389,"endTime":3192.429,"body":"the material to impact embodied"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3192.449,"endTime":3194.559,"body":"carbon that's where you'll get"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3192.449,"endTime":3194.559,"body":"the most bang for your buck."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3195.399,"endTime":3198.129,"body":"So we want to do some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3195.399,"endTime":3198.129,"body":"experiments and again,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3198.129,"endTime":3199.449,"body":"they're going to be with ITB."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3199.449,"endTime":3202.579,"body":"We've got nine,  enclosure"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3199.449,"endTime":3202.579,"body":"experiments planned, where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3202.579,"endTime":3205.729,"body":"we were actually going"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3202.579,"endTime":3205.729,"body":"to start to, to try and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3205.829,"endTime":3208.159,"body":"understand and predict."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3208.26,"endTime":3210.6,"body":"Firstly that the sort of the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3208.26,"endTime":3210.6,"body":"plasterboard failure part of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3210.6,"endTime":3213.99,"body":"the problem, because we talk"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3210.6,"endTime":3213.99,"body":"about encapsulation, just riding"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3213.99,"endTime":3216.09,"body":"out the fire and it'll be there"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3213.99,"endTime":3216.09,"body":"at the end and the timber will"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3216.09,"endTime":3219.84,"body":"be unaffected underneath, but"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3216.09,"endTime":3219.84,"body":"that kind of understanding"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3219.84,"endTime":3222.09,"body":"plasterboard failure is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3219.84,"endTime":3222.09,"body":"sort of the fire safety"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3222.09,"endTime":3225.18,"body":"engineering, holy grail in many"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3222.09,"endTime":3225.18,"body":"respects, it's not a problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3225.18,"endTime":3226.8,"body":"That's that's well understood."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3226.8,"endTime":3230.58,"body":"I tried it a bit with my PhD"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3226.8,"endTime":3230.58,"body":"and it's a real minefield in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3230.58,"endTime":3232.95,"body":"terms of understanding how that"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3230.58,"endTime":3232.95,"body":"degrades and how it detaches."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3232.95,"endTime":3235.14,"body":"So we need some data"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3232.95,"endTime":3235.14,"body":"in that respect."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3235.77,"endTime":3238.61,"body":"And also we need to understand"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3235.77,"endTime":3238.61,"body":"if allowing that plasterboard"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3238.61,"endTime":3241.75,"body":"to fail when you've got"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3238.61,"endTime":3241.75,"body":"pretty much every surface in"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3241.75,"endTime":3243.94,"body":"your enclosure formed of a"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3241.75,"endTime":3243.94,"body":"combustible material, whether"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3243.94,"endTime":3247.66,"body":"that's even a realistic"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3243.94,"endTime":3247.66,"body":"proposition or whether we accept"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3247.69,"endTime":3250.87,"body":"that, actually, if you're going"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3247.69,"endTime":3250.87,"body":"to have multiple combustible"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3250.87,"endTime":3253.0,"body":"surfaces and the solution is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3250.87,"endTime":3253.0,"body":"always going to converge on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3253.0,"endTime":3256.25,"body":"something with an awful lot"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3253.0,"endTime":3256.25,"body":"of encapsulated surface area."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3257.04,"endTime":3260.859,"body":"Or can we optimize that to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3257.04,"endTime":3260.859,"body":"some extent, whereby actually"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3260.859,"endTime":3263.169,"body":"some of our plasterboard"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3260.859,"endTime":3263.169,"body":"is failing during the fire."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3263.169,"endTime":3265.299,"body":"We're exposing some of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3263.169,"endTime":3265.299,"body":"the wood, but it's not"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3265.299,"endTime":3267.399,"body":"becoming exposed too early."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3267.399,"endTime":3271.449,"body":"So it was to have this sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3267.399,"endTime":3271.449,"body":"of a never-ending cyclical"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3271.839,"endTime":3274.899,"body":"jar fall off re-ignition"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3271.839,"endTime":3274.899,"body":"and ultimately the structure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3275.129,"endTime":3276.179,"body":"until it burns down."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3276.179,"endTime":3276.419,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3276.589,"endTime":3277.359,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3277.909,"endTime":3279.239,"body":"So that's where we're"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3277.909,"endTime":3279.239,"body":"going with that."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3279.599,"endTime":3281.819,"body":"And there'll be some"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3279.599,"endTime":3281.819,"body":"publications in the pipeline."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3281.819,"endTime":3283.649,"body":"I'm sure when all"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3281.819,"endTime":3283.649,"body":"is said and done."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3284.304,"endTime":3286.044,"body":"And I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3284.304,"endTime":3286.044,"body":"more than excited to burn"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3286.044,"endTime":3287.784,"body":"these nine buildings for you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3288.234,"endTime":3291.774,"body":"I'm little less excited about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3288.234,"endTime":3291.774,"body":"unpacking 30 tons of CLT."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3291.774,"endTime":3296.224,"body":"You have kindly shipped to my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3291.774,"endTime":3296.224,"body":"laboratory, but yeah,  first"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3296.254,"endTime":3299.584,"body":"let's learn the logistics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3296.254,"endTime":3299.584,"body":"of working with CLT and then"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3299.584,"endTime":3301.654,"body":"let's learn how to build"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3299.584,"endTime":3301.654,"body":"the buildings with CLT."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3301.654,"endTime":3306.724,"body":"And then we're gonna learn how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3301.654,"endTime":3306.724,"body":"to safely burn them in a way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3306.724,"endTime":3311.469,"body":"that does not lead to severe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3306.724,"endTime":3311.469,"body":"structural failure and I really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3311.469,"endTime":3313.779,"body":"hope to to see how it goes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3313.809,"endTime":3318.289,"body":"And I think we'll come back"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3313.809,"endTime":3318.289,"body":"to this topic some time later"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3318.289,"endTime":3321.469,"body":"when did all the data is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3318.289,"endTime":3321.469,"body":"processed, when the conclusions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3321.469,"endTime":3324.969,"body":"are formed and even the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3321.469,"endTime":3324.969,"body":"clearer pathway  is available."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3325.419,"endTime":3329.489,"body":"And for now, if an engineer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3325.419,"endTime":3329.489,"body":"seeks guidance where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3329.729,"endTime":3332.399,"body":"they should look for it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3329.729,"endTime":3332.399,"body":"what would you recommend?"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3332.61,"endTime":3334.83,"body":"So Cross UK"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3332.61,"endTime":3334.83,"body":"is publishing really good"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3334.83,"endTime":3338.18,"body":"articles on from, from a sort"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3334.83,"endTime":3338.18,"body":"of legislative and guidance"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3338.18,"endTime":3342.11,"body":"standpoint on where timber sits"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3338.18,"endTime":3342.11,"body":"in that sort of definition of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3342.11,"endTime":3343.37,"body":"a common building situation."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3343.37,"endTime":3345.98,"body":"So I definitely recommend"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3343.37,"endTime":3345.98,"body":"the Cross reports."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3346.08,"endTime":3348.96,"body":"There is a summary article"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3346.08,"endTime":3348.96,"body":"that we wrote in SFPE Europe"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3348.96,"endTime":3350.07,"body":"on the compliance roadmap."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3350.07,"endTime":3352.7,"body":"If you don't want to read"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3350.07,"endTime":3352.7,"body":"a fairly lengthy report"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3352.7,"endTime":3353.96,"body":"on the STA website."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3354.72,"endTime":3357.52,"body":"But there's no there's"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3354.72,"endTime":3357.52,"body":"no specific sort of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3357.76,"endTime":3360.22,"body":"design guidance or tools"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3357.76,"endTime":3360.22,"body":"available at the moment."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3360.25,"endTime":3363.14,"body":"We're in that period where"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3360.25,"endTime":3363.14,"body":"the current Eurocodes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3363.16,"endTime":3364.48,"body":"don't cover such things."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3364.87,"endTime":3368.92,"body":"The future  Eurocodes might"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3364.87,"endTime":3368.92,"body":"cover them to some extent, but"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3368.92,"endTime":3373.39,"body":"really it's going back to what"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3368.92,"endTime":3373.39,"body":"we understood about timber many"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3373.39,"endTime":3376.67,"body":"decades ago, you've got sort of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3373.39,"endTime":3376.67,"body":"the Rasbash fire point theory."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3376.69,"endTime":3379.57,"body":"You've got the various"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3376.69,"endTime":3379.57,"body":"stuff in Drysdale that is"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3379.57,"endTime":3381.67,"body":"there, and we've seemingly"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3379.57,"endTime":3381.67,"body":"ignored for an awful long"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3381.67,"endTime":3384.49,"body":"time about the fundamentals"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3381.67,"endTime":3384.49,"body":"of how timber burns."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3384.61,"endTime":3388.9,"body":"And we've, I bet we just"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3384.61,"endTime":3388.9,"body":"seem to either ignore its"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3388.9,"endTime":3391.69,"body":"existence or just forgot it was"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3388.9,"endTime":3391.69,"body":"there and forgot the lesson."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3392.485,"endTime":3395.215,"body":"And went for the convenience"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3392.485,"endTime":3395.215,"body":"of chairing rates and"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3395.215,"endTime":3395.955,"body":"fire resistance periods."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3395.955,"endTime":3399.745,"body":"So I definitely definitely"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3395.955,"endTime":3399.745,"body":"advocate those and the theses"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3399.745,"endTime":3402.685,"body":"and the publications of"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3399.745,"endTime":3402.685,"body":"the few people I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3402.89,"endTime":3404.84,"body":"I will link"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3402.89,"endTime":3404.84,"body":"all of them in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3404.84,"endTime":3407.54,"body":"So people know where to go from."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3408.385,"endTime":3411.475,"body":"And for the final"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3408.385,"endTime":3411.475,"body":"thing, congratulations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3411.475,"endTime":3413.665,"body":"on the Structural Fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3411.475,"endTime":3413.665,"body":"Engineering Handbook."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3413.695,"endTime":3416.855,"body":"That's, about to reach"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3413.695,"endTime":3416.855,"body":"the surface, man."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3416.855,"endTime":3420.205,"body":"That's a, that's such a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3416.855,"endTime":3420.205,"body":"huge project and maybe even"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3420.215,"endTime":3421.895,"body":"separate podcast episode."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3422.475,"endTime":3422.985,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3422.985,"endTime":3425.295,"body":"You should say you can get"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3422.985,"endTime":3425.295,"body":"Kevin and I, to give you"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3425.295,"endTime":3427.695,"body":"the, the lowdown on what's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3427.765,"endTime":3428.725,"body":"How,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3427.765,"endTime":3428.725,"body":"to write the handbook,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3429.275,"endTime":3430.925,"body":"how to write,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3429.275,"endTime":3430.925,"body":"well, maybe how not to"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3430.925,"endTime":3433.445,"body":"write a handbook would be,"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3430.925,"endTime":3433.445,"body":"we, we can give advice on"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3433.455,"endTime":3434.645,"body":"all the mistakes we made."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3434.725,"endTime":3435.775,"body":"The bad practices in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3435.775,"endTime":3436.555,"body":"handbook writing that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3436.555,"endTime":3438.175,"body":"So that will be a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3436.555,"endTime":3438.175,"body":"popular episode."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3438.52,"endTime":3439.42,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3439.45,"endTime":3439.78,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3439.78,"endTime":3441.55,"body":"It's, it's something"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3439.78,"endTime":3441.55,"body":"we embarked on."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3441.63,"endTime":3444.72,"body":"I think we officially started"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3441.63,"endTime":3444.72,"body":"about two months before the"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3444.72,"endTime":3449.11,"body":"Grenfell Tower fire and then"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3444.72,"endTime":3449.11,"body":"you combine the outcomes"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3449.11,"endTime":3452.28,"body":"of that for, fire engineers"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3449.11,"endTime":3452.28,"body":"around the world with COVID"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3452.58,"endTime":3454.2,"body":"mixed in there as well."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3454.2,"endTime":3456.08,"body":"And yeah it's been"},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3454.2,"endTime":3456.08,"body":"a long time coming."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3456.455,"endTime":3458.355,"body":"Well"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3456.455,"endTime":3458.355,"body":"I'm  glad it's reaching us."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3458.355,"endTime":3461.475,"body":"And I cannot wait to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3458.355,"endTime":3461.475,"body":"get my hands on that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3461.475,"endTime":3464.815,"body":"So, congratulations once again,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3461.475,"endTime":3464.815,"body":"and, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3464.815,"endTime":3465.895,"body":"joining Fire Science Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3465.895,"endTime":3468.005,"body":"And, it was a pleasure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3465.895,"endTime":3468.005,"body":"to have you here, Danny."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3468.46,"endTime":3469.06,"body":"no problem."},{"speaker":"Danny Hopkin","startTime":3469.09,"endTime":3470.85,"body":"Thanks for having me, Cheers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3472.139,"endTime":3473.939,"body":"This talk"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3472.139,"endTime":3473.939,"body":"was really rejuvinating for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3473.939,"endTime":3477.959,"body":"me, not because the issues"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3473.939,"endTime":3477.959,"body":"are solved or I feel much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3477.959,"endTime":3483.299,"body":"safer about timber buildings"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3477.959,"endTime":3483.299,"body":"today, but Danny showed me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3483.359,"endTime":3486.659,"body":"clear pathways on how to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3483.359,"endTime":3486.659,"body":"solve engineering problems."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3487.199,"endTime":3491.669,"body":"And no, every time we hear"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3487.199,"endTime":3491.669,"body":"that, we, you need to hire a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3491.669,"endTime":3495.389,"body":"competent fire engineers to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3491.669,"endTime":3495.389,"body":"design infrastructures that you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3495.509,"endTime":3499.529,"body":"should look holistically, timber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3495.509,"endTime":3499.529,"body":"buildings and fire and stuff."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3500.634,"endTime":3502.584,"body":"But it's really difficult"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3500.634,"endTime":3502.584,"body":"to understand what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3502.674,"endTime":3503.994,"body":"people mean with that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3504.144,"endTime":3505.224,"body":"Where should we go?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3505.284,"endTime":3509.244,"body":"What kinds of holistic approach"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3505.284,"endTime":3509.244,"body":"should we actually implement"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3509.724,"endTime":3515.514,"body":"when there is the flammability"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3509.724,"endTime":3515.514,"body":"issue, which is obvious, and you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3515.514,"endTime":3516.894,"body":"somehow have to deal with that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3517.434,"endTime":3519.444,"body":"And I'm really happy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3517.434,"endTime":3519.444,"body":"they showed this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3519.874,"endTime":3523.864,"body":"Approaches with encapsulation,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3519.874,"endTime":3523.864,"body":"partial encapsulation, some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3523.864,"endTime":3527.044,"body":"technical solutions to prevent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3523.864,"endTime":3527.044,"body":"a glue line, , failure,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3527.524,"endTime":3530.164,"body":"some aspects of compartment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3527.524,"endTime":3530.164,"body":"file dynamics that can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3530.164,"endTime":3531.034,"body":"be taken into account."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3531.869,"endTime":3535.549,"body":"To, to really understand"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3531.869,"endTime":3535.549,"body":"the scale of a problem."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3535.559,"endTime":3539.099,"body":"You're creating by making"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3535.559,"endTime":3539.099,"body":"a building a compartment,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3539.129,"endTime":3541.559,"body":"part of a building, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3539.129,"endTime":3541.559,"body":"from engineered timber."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3542.219,"endTime":3545.039,"body":"And once you understand the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3542.219,"endTime":3545.039,"body":"risks, you can compensate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3545.039,"endTime":3548.279,"body":"for them or find solutions,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3545.039,"endTime":3548.279,"body":"or maybe just agree to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3548.279,"endTime":3552.029,"body":"risk that you have and, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3548.279,"endTime":3552.029,"body":"live well with your building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3552.599,"endTime":3554.239,"body":"That's, that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3552.599,"endTime":3554.239,"body":"engineering again."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3554.269,"endTime":3557.869,"body":"That's why I became one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3554.269,"endTime":3557.869,"body":"of engineers actually."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3558.769,"endTime":3563.459,"body":"So, I'm really happy we had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3558.769,"endTime":3563.459,"body":"this talk and, uh, Danny also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3563.459,"endTime":3566.939,"body":"mentioned a lot of resources"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3563.459,"endTime":3566.939,"body":"that are there for you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3567.299,"endTime":3569.699,"body":"We certainly don't have all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3567.299,"endTime":3569.699,"body":"the problems worked out."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3569.759,"endTime":3571.889,"body":"We certainly need"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3569.759,"endTime":3571.889,"body":"more knowledge."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3572.219,"endTime":3574.409,"body":"We need more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3572.219,"endTime":3574.409,"body":"fundamental research."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3574.709,"endTime":3576.479,"body":"We need more applied research."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3576.509,"endTime":3580.199,"body":"We need more case studies and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3576.509,"endTime":3580.199,"body":"understand and, uh, impact"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3580.259,"endTime":3583.229,"body":"the structural timber can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3580.259,"endTime":3583.229,"body":"have on the built industry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3583.889,"endTime":3585.239,"body":"But there are resources."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3585.269,"endTime":3586.289,"body":"There are resources."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3587.114,"endTime":3588.644,"body":"All the PhDs mentions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3588.694,"endTime":3592.064,"body":"All the papers mentioned are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3588.694,"endTime":3592.064,"body":"linked in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3592.094,"endTime":3595.724,"body":"There are some great videos"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3592.094,"endTime":3595.724,"body":"for you to watch, and I hope"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3595.724,"endTime":3598.604,"body":"it becomes a nice resource"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3595.724,"endTime":3598.604,"body":"hub for people looking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3598.604,"endTime":3600.134,"body":"for some safety advice."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3600.254,"endTime":3601.334,"body":"And, uh, yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3601.364,"endTime":3604.664,"body":"Also look forward to the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3601.364,"endTime":3604.664,"body":"uh, Handbook of Structural"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3604.664,"endTime":3607.424,"body":"Fire Engineering, Danny"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3604.664,"endTime":3607.424,"body":"and Kevin  LaMalva, and the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3607.424,"endTime":3609.194,"body":"editors of this handbook."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3609.764,"endTime":3612.554,"body":"It's going to be live soon ish."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3612.704,"endTime":3616.244,"body":"And it's this one I've been"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3612.704,"endTime":3616.244,"body":"told is quite comprehensive."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3616.244,"endTime":3619.274,"body":"So I cannot wait to have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3616.244,"endTime":3619.274,"body":"my copy and dig into that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3619.484,"endTime":3622.334,"body":"And so that's it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3619.484,"endTime":3622.334,"body":"for today's episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3622.814,"endTime":3625.844,"body":"I hope you enjoyed our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3622.814,"endTime":3625.844,"body":"little chat about Denver"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3625.854,"endTime":3628.394,"body":"and fire and yeah, as usual."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3628.424,"endTime":3630.044,"body":"Thank you very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3628.424,"endTime":3630.044,"body":"much for listening."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3630.584,"endTime":3633.224,"body":"Make sure to share the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3630.584,"endTime":3633.224,"body":"knowledge about the podcast"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3633.224,"endTime":3637.494,"body":"with your colleagues and, as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3633.224,"endTime":3637.494,"body":"usual, see you next Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3637.824,"endTime":3638.244,"body":"Cheers."}]}