{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.05,"endTime":1.71,"body":"Hello, everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.77,"endTime":4.47,"body":"Welcome to session 19 of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.77,"endTime":4.47,"body":"the Fire Science Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":5.25,"endTime":9.27,"body":"As you may notice, we've talked"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":5.25,"endTime":9.27,"body":"quite a bit about evacuation and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":9.3,"endTime":10.95,"body":"human behavior on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":11.43,"endTime":13.62,"body":"I had really nice"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":11.43,"endTime":13.62,"body":"interview with Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":13.62,"endTime":17.55,"body":"Mike Kinsey on the cognitive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":13.62,"endTime":17.55,"body":"biases and how they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":17.55,"endTime":20.1,"body":"impact the decision-making"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":17.55,"endTime":20.1,"body":"process in evacuation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":20.67,"endTime":23.47,"body":"I had a really interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":20.67,"endTime":23.47,"body":"chat with a professor Enrico"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":23.47,"endTime":26.95,"body":"Ronchiand professor Ruggiero"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":23.47,"endTime":26.95,"body":"Lovreglio on the future"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":26.97,"endTime":28.14,"body":"of acquisition modeling."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":28.84,"endTime":35.773,"body":"And in these talks I was really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":28.84,"endTime":35.773,"body":"trying to emphasize this line"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":36.013,"endTime":41.24,"body":"that distinguishes modeling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":36.013,"endTime":41.24,"body":"movement from modeling behavior."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":41.745,"endTime":43.695,"body":"it's something really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":41.745,"endTime":43.695,"body":"important to me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":44.312,"endTime":49.484,"body":"Show you this difference that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":44.312,"endTime":49.484,"body":"what happens when you just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":49.634,"endTime":52.994,"body":"simulate pre movement times and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":49.634,"endTime":52.994,"body":"simulate the movement of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.994,"endTime":57.044,"body":"agents in an evacuation modeling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.994,"endTime":57.044,"body":"and what happens when you start"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":57.045,"endTime":61.667,"body":"modeling human behavior, their"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":57.045,"endTime":61.667,"body":"choices, and how that impacts"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":61.667,"endTime":63.077,"body":"the output of the simulation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":63.107,"endTime":65.927,"body":"And I think is really important"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":63.107,"endTime":65.927,"body":"because it's one of those."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":66.527,"endTime":68.987,"body":"Paradigm shifting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":66.527,"endTime":68.987,"body":"things in the industry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":69.617,"endTime":74.777,"body":"If we were able to easily model"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":69.617,"endTime":74.777,"body":"human behavior, we would end"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.777,"endTime":77.917,"body":"up with a completely different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.777,"endTime":77.917,"body":"fire safety engineering as a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":77.917,"endTime":81.307,"body":"whole, because understanding"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":77.917,"endTime":81.307,"body":"human behavior is fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":81.307,"endTime":83.212,"body":"to fire safety engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":83.272,"endTime":86.879,"body":"And if we can make a huge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":83.272,"endTime":86.879,"body":"leap in this field, well,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.885,"endTime":90.545,"body":"the whole fire safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.885,"endTime":90.545,"body":"engineering improves a lot."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.505,"endTime":95.219,"body":"And today another interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.505,"endTime":95.219,"body":"discussion on evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":95.219,"endTime":99.969,"body":"modelling, I have another"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":95.219,"endTime":99.969,"body":"world-class expert and she"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":99.969,"endTime":102.879,"body":"actually has quite a lot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":99.969,"endTime":102.879,"body":"of achievements in terms"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":102.879,"endTime":104.229,"body":"of modeling human behavior."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":104.799,"endTime":106.899,"body":"A lot of successful"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":104.799,"endTime":106.899,"body":"modeling actually."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":107.292,"endTime":111.755,"body":"She did a lot of studies on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":107.292,"endTime":111.755,"body":"previous disasters, like World"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":111.755,"endTime":116.165,"body":"Trade Center, for example,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":111.755,"endTime":116.165,"body":"and now have having moved"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":116.165,"endTime":120.039,"body":"to Australia, studying a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":116.165,"endTime":120.039,"body":"bit of bush fires and, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":120.519,"endTime":122.859,"body":"a lot of interesting things"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":120.519,"endTime":122.859,"body":"that you're going to end"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":122.859,"endTime":124.079,"body":"at the end ofthe interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":124.357,"endTime":126.557,"body":"So let's not wait anymore."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":126.857,"endTime":130.127,"body":"Please welcome with me,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":126.857,"endTime":130.127,"body":"Dr Erica Kuligowski from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":130.627,"endTime":134.927,"body":"RMIT in Melbourne and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":130.627,"endTime":134.927,"body":"let's spin the intro and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":134.927,"endTime":135.857,"body":"jump into the interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":159.28,"endTime":160.0,"body":"Hello everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":160.15,"endTime":163.19,"body":"Today, I'm here with Dr"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":160.15,"endTime":163.19,"body":"Erica Kuligowski from RMIT"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":163.36,"endTime":164.47,"body":"university in Melbourne."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":164.5,"endTime":165.07,"body":"Hi, Erica."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":165.12,"endTime":165.91,"body":"Great to have you here."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":166.24,"endTime":167.68,"body":"Hi,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":166.24,"endTime":167.68,"body":"thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":168.06,"endTime":170.083,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":168.06,"endTime":170.083,"body":"let's start with your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":170.083,"endTime":171.433,"body":"interesting twist in a career."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.463,"endTime":174.433,"body":"You've spent like two"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.463,"endTime":174.433,"body":"decades in NIST and now"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":174.433,"endTime":178.693,"body":"moved into Australia in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":174.433,"endTime":178.693,"body":"the middle of pandemic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.753,"endTime":181.273,"body":"So how was the experience?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":181.453,"endTime":182.623,"body":"What was I thinking?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":183.772,"endTime":184.732,"body":"Oh, yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":184.882,"endTime":187.792,"body":"So yes, I moved"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":184.882,"endTime":187.792,"body":"during a pandemic."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":187.822,"endTime":188.782,"body":"It was interesting."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":188.842,"endTime":191.722,"body":"Um, there was a bit of a delay"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":188.842,"endTime":191.722,"body":"in waiting for my visa, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":191.722,"endTime":194.332,"body":"I'm so excited to be here."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":194.462,"endTime":195.692,"body":"You are absolutely correct."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":195.692,"endTime":197.192,"body":"It's been an interesting career."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":197.852,"endTime":202.652,"body":"I started at NIST in 2002,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":197.852,"endTime":202.652,"body":"and then just last year made a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":202.652,"endTime":207.932,"body":"decision to move to Australia"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":202.652,"endTime":207.932,"body":"and work at RMIT University."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":208.022,"endTime":210.422,"body":"I'm a Vice Chancellor, Senior"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":208.022,"endTime":210.422,"body":"Research Fellow here in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":210.422,"endTime":214.052,"body":"Civil and Infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":210.422,"endTime":214.052,"body":"Engineering discipline, and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":214.052,"endTime":218.172,"body":"focusing on, um, wildfires"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":214.052,"endTime":218.172,"body":"or bushfires and evacuations."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":218.172,"endTime":220.772,"body":"So very excited about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":218.172,"endTime":220.772,"body":"this new change."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":221.432,"endTime":222.602,"body":"That's really cool."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":223.042,"endTime":225.482,"body":"When I've followed your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":223.042,"endTime":225.482,"body":"career from the early days"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":225.482,"endTime":229.232,"body":"of my own engineering, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":225.482,"endTime":229.232,"body":"always saw connected you with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.232,"endTime":232.502,"body":"this field of understanding"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.232,"endTime":232.502,"body":"what people do in fires or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":232.532,"endTime":234.122,"body":"what people think in fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":234.692,"endTime":236.582,"body":"And I've connected this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":234.692,"endTime":236.582,"body":"with building fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":236.582,"endTime":238.592,"body":"You obviously"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":236.582,"endTime":238.592,"body":"investigated hurricanes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":238.592,"endTime":241.112,"body":"and other catastrophic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":238.592,"endTime":241.112,"body":"evens in US as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":241.832,"endTime":246.272,"body":"And now this switch to wildfire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":241.832,"endTime":246.272,"body":"science, was there a particular"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":246.272,"endTime":248.012,"body":"reason to, to switch into that?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":248.102,"endTime":251.402,"body":"Or how did you jump into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":248.102,"endTime":251.402,"body":"this new, exciting field?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":252.062,"endTime":253.232,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":252.062,"endTime":253.232,"body":"that's a great question."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":253.502,"endTime":256.652,"body":"I have been actually interested"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":253.502,"endTime":256.652,"body":"in looking at wildfires"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":256.652,"endTime":260.552,"body":"for quite a number of years"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":256.652,"endTime":260.552,"body":"because my background isn't"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":260.552,"endTime":264.863,"body":"fire protection engineering,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":260.552,"endTime":264.863,"body":"as well as sociology."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":264.871,"endTime":267.151,"body":"And you know, as an"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":264.871,"endTime":267.151,"body":"FPE, , we didn't really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":267.151,"endTime":268.701,"body":"delve into wildfires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":268.701,"endTime":271.461,"body":"I still always had an interest"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":268.701,"endTime":271.461,"body":"in understanding people's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":271.461,"endTime":273.651,"body":"responses to fires of all kinds."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":274.311,"endTime":278.841,"body":"And I think when we started"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":274.311,"endTime":278.841,"body":"seeing more and more people lose"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":278.841,"endTime":284.451,"body":"their lives in the U S and the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":278.841,"endTime":284.451,"body":"fires becoming more  intense."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":285.111,"endTime":289.071,"body":"And covering larger areas"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":285.111,"endTime":289.071,"body":"and the California and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":289.071,"endTime":290.361,"body":"other places out west."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":290.361,"endTime":293.481,"body":"And then certainly here in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":290.361,"endTime":293.481,"body":"Australia, I started thinking"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":293.481,"endTime":298.401,"body":"that it would be really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":293.481,"endTime":298.401,"body":"interesting as well as I think I"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":298.401,"endTime":302.181,"body":"could have impact in translating"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":298.401,"endTime":302.181,"body":"all of the information"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":302.181,"endTime":305.901,"body":"and research I've done and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":302.181,"endTime":305.901,"body":"building fires and large-scale"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":305.901,"endTime":308.601,"body":"hazards to the wildfire area."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":308.721,"endTime":311.111,"body":"And you know, everyone"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":308.721,"endTime":311.111,"body":"asks what gets you out"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":311.111,"endTime":312.041,"body":"of bed in the morning?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":312.621,"endTime":315.181,"body":"For me, it's trying to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":312.621,"endTime":315.181,"body":"make a difference and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":315.241,"endTime":319.201,"body":"hope hopefully reducing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":315.241,"endTime":319.201,"body":"lives lost and disasters."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":319.621,"endTime":323.171,"body":"And I think there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":319.621,"endTime":323.171,"body":"of work to be done in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":323.171,"endTime":324.611,"body":"wildfire evacuation area."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":325.271,"endTime":329.031,"body":"Especially"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":325.271,"endTime":329.031,"body":"that on one hand you see huge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":329.031,"endTime":332.901,"body":"fires in which the community"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":329.031,"endTime":332.901,"body":"could escape their location."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":332.901,"endTime":334.881,"body":"And of course there is damage."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":334.881,"endTime":338.651,"body":"There is destruction because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":334.881,"endTime":338.651,"body":"it's a cataclysm, but not that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":338.651,"endTime":339.761,"body":"many people lose their lives."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":339.761,"endTime":343.071,"body":"And then you see some images"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":339.761,"endTime":343.071,"body":"of some groups of people that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":343.071,"endTime":347.004,"body":"are just jumped by the fire or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":343.071,"endTime":347.004,"body":"that attack them unprepared."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":347.694,"endTime":351.684,"body":"And you see this mass loss of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":347.694,"endTime":351.684,"body":"lives or this traumatic events"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":351.684,"endTime":355.944,"body":"where people like drive miles"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":351.684,"endTime":355.944,"body":"through fires multiple times."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":356.674,"endTime":360.964,"body":"And you get to wonder why"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":356.674,"endTime":360.964,"body":"this one community have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":361.034,"endTime":365.619,"body":"succeeded, and save their lives"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":361.034,"endTime":365.619,"body":"and why the other did not."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":366.369,"endTime":370.869,"body":"And I'm not sure why maybe after"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":366.369,"endTime":370.869,"body":"an hour of talking with the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":370.879,"endTime":374.159,"body":"I'll understand it a bit more,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":370.879,"endTime":374.159,"body":"but there is something, that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":374.239,"endTime":377.689,"body":"in some cases we succeed, in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":374.239,"endTime":377.689,"body":"some cases we miserably fail."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":378.169,"endTime":380.779,"body":"Is this something you also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":378.169,"endTime":380.779,"body":"observe in this field?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":381.369,"endTime":383.469,"body":"I definitely,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":381.369,"endTime":383.469,"body":"wouldn't say it's a failure."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":383.499,"endTime":388.689,"body":"There's so many different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":383.499,"endTime":388.689,"body":"aspects that go into evacuation."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":389.109,"endTime":392.989,"body":"There's obviously lot of factors"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":389.109,"endTime":392.989,"body":"about the community itself,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":393.329,"endTime":397.049,"body":"how they live day to day, as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":393.329,"endTime":397.049,"body":"well as their experiences with"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":397.049,"endTime":400.799,"body":"fire, their awareness about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":397.049,"endTime":400.799,"body":"their risks and the threat."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":400.903,"endTime":403.033,"body":"And then also the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":400.903,"endTime":403.033,"body":"environment around them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":403.063,"endTime":404.893,"body":"So what's going"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":403.063,"endTime":404.893,"body":"on with the fire?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":404.923,"endTime":406.603,"body":"What cues are they getting?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":406.603,"endTime":408.793,"body":"What types of warnings"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":406.603,"endTime":408.793,"body":"are they receiving?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":409.093,"endTime":411.073,"body":"Who are they receiving"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":409.093,"endTime":411.073,"body":"the warnings from?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":411.463,"endTime":414.043,"body":"But I think the another"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":411.463,"endTime":414.043,"body":"really big thing."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":414.043,"endTime":420.623,"body":"Is how fast the fire is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":414.043,"endTime":420.623,"body":"spreading and how  if officials"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":420.623,"endTime":423.413,"body":"are able to kind of understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":420.623,"endTime":423.413,"body":"and try to predict where it's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":423.413,"endTime":427.103,"body":"going, and it's all really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":423.413,"endTime":427.103,"body":"about timing, it's not all about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":427.103,"endTime":431.003,"body":"that, but that's an important"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":427.103,"endTime":431.003,"body":"part is are our people warned"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":431.003,"endTime":436.503,"body":"with enough time to leave"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":431.003,"endTime":436.503,"body":"and,  fires can be  with the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":436.503,"endTime":439.443,"body":"change of winds, for example,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":436.503,"endTime":439.443,"body":"go in a different direction"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":439.443,"endTime":441.893,"body":"or move or spread faster."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":442.133,"endTime":446.273,"body":"So it's really tough for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":442.133,"endTime":446.273,"body":"officials to be monitoring,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":446.303,"endTime":449.423,"body":"making predictions and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":446.303,"endTime":449.423,"body":"then warning communities"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":449.423,"endTime":450.473,"body":"with enough time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":450.713,"endTime":453.383,"body":"And then as I mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":450.713,"endTime":453.383,"body":"the communities are bringing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":453.383,"endTime":455.633,"body":"a lot to the situation."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":455.633,"endTime":457.733,"body":"And how did they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":455.633,"endTime":457.733,"body":"think about fires?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":457.823,"endTime":458.903,"body":"How do they perceive it?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":458.903,"endTime":460.523,"body":"How do they perceive"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":458.903,"endTime":460.523,"body":"their own risk?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":460.853,"endTime":464.483,"body":"And then that has plays"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":460.853,"endTime":464.483,"body":"a role in how they make"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":464.483,"endTime":465.443,"body":"their own decisions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":465.443,"endTime":466.773,"body":"So there's a lot at play."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":466.956,"endTime":468.933,"body":"Can you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":466.956,"endTime":468.933,"body":"draw a parallel to hurricane"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":468.933,"endTime":471.663,"body":"management in here because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":468.933,"endTime":471.663,"body":"you don't evacuate communities"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":471.663,"endTime":474.213,"body":"when the hurricane is at the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":471.663,"endTime":474.213,"body":"Caribbean sea or something?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":474.263,"endTime":475.213,"body":"You have to time it."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":475.363,"endTime":475.983,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":476.003,"endTime":477.623,"body":"You can definitely"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":476.003,"endTime":477.623,"body":"draw parallels."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":477.623,"endTime":481.043,"body":"Although I would say that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":477.623,"endTime":481.043,"body":"there are differences as well."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":481.253,"endTime":486.323,"body":"So parallels of course it's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":481.253,"endTime":486.323,"body":"heading toward a community."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":486.593,"endTime":488.333,"body":"They have to make predictions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":488.553,"endTime":491.013,"body":"There's, what's called"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":488.553,"endTime":491.013,"body":"the cone of uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":491.313,"endTime":493.743,"body":"So the closer you are to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":491.313,"endTime":493.743,"body":"the hurricane, the more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":493.743,"endTime":496.443,"body":"certain you are on the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":493.743,"endTime":496.443,"body":"direction, the further away"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":496.443,"endTime":497.823,"body":"the cone becomes larger."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":498.333,"endTime":502.339,"body":"But with fires, the prediction"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":498.333,"endTime":502.339,"body":"is a bit more difficult."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":502.339,"endTime":502.669,"body":"I would say."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":502.708,"endTime":505.751,"body":"Or  we don't have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":502.708,"endTime":505.751,"body":"the tools yet, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":505.751,"endTime":508.361,"body":"That are getting to that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":505.751,"endTime":508.361,"body":"ability to draw this"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":508.361,"endTime":509.861,"body":"cone of uncertainty."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":510.461,"endTime":513.131,"body":"And the timelines"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":510.461,"endTime":513.131,"body":"are also different."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":513.501,"endTime":517.021,"body":"A fire could start and could"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":513.501,"endTime":517.021,"body":"have a difficult day with"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":517.021,"endTime":520.171,"body":"winds and all of a sudden it's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":517.021,"endTime":520.171,"body":"spreading into a community where"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":520.171,"endTime":523.921,"body":"people could have up to three"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":520.171,"endTime":523.921,"body":"days in a hurricane to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":524.641,"endTime":527.791,"body":"And so we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":524.641,"endTime":527.791,"body":"definitely different timescales."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":528.131,"endTime":531.421,"body":"So while we have to make"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":528.131,"endTime":531.421,"body":"the same types of decisions"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":531.421,"endTime":533.971,"body":"in these different events."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":534.401,"endTime":537.611,"body":"We have different timescales"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":534.401,"endTime":537.611,"body":"and officials maybe don't have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":537.611,"endTime":541.361,"body":"the same tools at their disposal"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":537.611,"endTime":541.361,"body":"as they would for hurricane."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":541.776,"endTime":543.241,"body":"I've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":541.776,"endTime":543.241,"body":"watched, webinars with you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":543.291,"endTime":547.481,"body":"about, modeling this behavior"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":543.291,"endTime":547.481,"body":"in wildfire evacuations."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":548.051,"endTime":550.271,"body":"And you've also shown the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":548.051,"endTime":550.271,"body":"some reasons from Chimney"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":550.271,"endTime":552.211,"body":"Tops fire investigation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":552.291,"endTime":553.351,"body":"That's also published."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":553.351,"endTime":556.141,"body":"I'm going to drop that these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":553.351,"endTime":556.141,"body":"resources in the show notes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":556.578,"endTime":561.979,"body":"sleep stunned by analyses you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":556.578,"endTime":561.979,"body":"done on what drove people to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":561.979,"endTime":563.869,"body":"the decision of the evacuation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":564.379,"endTime":567.229,"body":"And it was really a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":564.379,"endTime":567.229,"body":"surprising in a way."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":567.729,"endTime":571.059,"body":"Can you bring the listeners a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":567.729,"endTime":571.059,"body":"bit on the research and then"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":571.059,"endTime":572.229,"body":"I'll tell you what surprised me."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":572.559,"endTime":573.429,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":573.459,"endTime":574.359,"body":"Yes, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":574.719,"endTime":578.139,"body":"So what I do in these"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":574.719,"endTime":578.139,"body":"types of events is I try to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":578.139,"endTime":581.619,"body":"understand what influenced"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":578.139,"endTime":581.619,"body":"people to evacuate or not."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":582.339,"endTime":586.587,"body":"We surveyed quite a number of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":582.339,"endTime":586.587,"body":"people who evacuated that fire."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":586.917,"endTime":590.247,"body":"And we asked them different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":586.917,"endTime":590.247,"body":"things about themselves, their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":590.247,"endTime":594.507,"body":"experiences with fires and their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":590.247,"endTime":594.507,"body":"demographics, you know, who they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":594.507,"endTime":597.497,"body":"are, gender, income, education."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":598.047,"endTime":601.257,"body":"And then we asked them quite"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":598.047,"endTime":601.257,"body":"a bit about the event itself."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":601.317,"endTime":604.767,"body":"We asked them to tie the types"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":601.317,"endTime":604.767,"body":"of cues that they witnessed,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":605.697,"endTime":608.997,"body":"what warnings they received,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":605.697,"endTime":608.997,"body":"if they received any at all."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":609.457,"endTime":614.017,"body":"And then how did they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":609.457,"endTime":614.017,"body":"perceive these cues around"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":614.017,"endTime":615.247,"body":"them and make a decision?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":615.667,"endTime":618.22,"body":"And I think you're going to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":615.667,"endTime":618.22,"body":"hear me talk about perceptions"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":618.22,"endTime":622.783,"body":"quite a bit, because it's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":618.22,"endTime":622.783,"body":"someone's perception of their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":622.783,"endTime":626.123,"body":"threat and risk that  have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":622.783,"endTime":626.123,"body":"quite a bit of influence"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":626.123,"endTime":626.963,"body":"on the decision they made."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":628.013,"endTime":629.423,"body":"And by threat perception."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":629.423,"endTime":632.603,"body":"I mean, do people think that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":629.423,"endTime":632.603,"body":"a fire is likely in their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":632.603,"endTime":638.573,"body":"area and then risk perception,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":632.603,"endTime":638.573,"body":"do they think, or how likely"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":638.573,"endTime":642.743,"body":"do they think that the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":638.573,"endTime":642.743,"body":"fire will negatively impact"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":642.743,"endTime":647.183,"body":"them and the people around"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":642.743,"endTime":647.183,"body":"them, injury or death even."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":647.783,"endTime":651.263,"body":"And so if people have lower"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":647.783,"endTime":651.263,"body":"perceptions of threat and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":651.263,"endTime":655.773,"body":"risk, research has found that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":651.263,"endTime":655.773,"body":"they're less likely to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":656.433,"endTime":661.743,"body":"And I think about perceptions"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":656.433,"endTime":661.743,"body":"as kind of, I try to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":661.743,"endTime":662.793,"body":"think about it visually."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":662.793,"endTime":666.813,"body":"I think about it as like a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":662.793,"endTime":666.813,"body":"measuring cup, if you will."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":667.203,"endTime":671.423,"body":"And some people come into a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":667.203,"endTime":671.423,"body":"fire with a lot of liquid in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":671.423,"endTime":675.945,"body":"that glass and some people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":671.423,"endTime":675.945,"body":"come to that fire just a bit."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":676.252,"endTime":680.212,"body":"And if you have, if you reach"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":676.252,"endTime":680.212,"body":"a certain threshold in that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":680.212,"endTime":683.602,"body":"measuring cup, then you're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":680.212,"endTime":683.602,"body":"likely to then say, okay,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":684.502,"endTime":685.912,"body":"I'm going to evacuate now."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":685.942,"endTime":686.242,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":686.242,"endTime":690.522,"body":"I've reached a certain threshold"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":686.242,"endTime":690.522,"body":"in my perceptions for some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":690.522,"endTime":693.792,"body":"communities, maybe especially"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":690.522,"endTime":693.792,"body":"communities that don't have a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":693.792,"endTime":695.412,"body":"lot of experience with fires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":695.862,"endTime":699.792,"body":"They come to the fire with less"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":695.862,"endTime":699.792,"body":"liquid in their cup, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":700.242,"endTime":704.442,"body":"So it takes a lot"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":700.242,"endTime":704.442,"body":"more cues around them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":704.802,"endTime":707.682,"body":"I'm seeing other people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":704.802,"endTime":707.682,"body":"evacuate, maybe even seeing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":707.682,"endTime":711.192,"body":"the fire itself for them to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":707.682,"endTime":711.192,"body":"reach that threshold and then"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":711.192,"endTime":712.752,"body":"make a decision to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":713.442,"endTime":717.568,"body":"So in that study, not only"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":713.442,"endTime":717.568,"body":"did I try to understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":717.878,"endTime":720.358,"body":"I myself, I had a team"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":717.878,"endTime":720.358,"body":"of people worked with me."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":720.778,"endTime":723.688,"body":"We tried to understand the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":720.778,"endTime":723.688,"body":"factors that influenced"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":723.718,"endTime":727.458,"body":"both people's perception"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":723.718,"endTime":727.458,"body":"of risk and their decision"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":727.458,"endTime":728.658,"body":"to evacuate because."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":729.158,"endTime":733.125,"body":"Following the theory that I use"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":729.158,"endTime":733.125,"body":"as the foundation for my work,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":733.395,"endTime":738.465,"body":"it really is people feeling"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":733.395,"endTime":738.465,"body":"at risk, understanding the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":738.465,"endTime":740.655,"body":"threat and then taking action."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":741.195,"endTime":744.165,"body":"So there's quite a bit of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":741.195,"endTime":744.165,"body":"factors that can influence our"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":744.315,"endTime":747.375,"body":"perception of risk that can"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":744.315,"endTime":747.375,"body":"raise our perception of risk."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":747.855,"endTime":751.635,"body":"We've found from research"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":747.855,"endTime":751.635,"body":"that gender plays a role."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":752.205,"endTime":755.955,"body":"So actually women are more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":752.205,"endTime":755.955,"body":"likely, and I really disliked"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":756.005,"endTime":758.905,"body":"gender findings because you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":756.005,"endTime":758.905,"body":"know, it's, sometimes it"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":758.935,"endTime":761.635,"body":"has more to do with role"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":758.935,"endTime":761.635,"body":"than it is with gender."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":761.795,"endTime":763.605,"body":"But women have been"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":761.795,"endTime":763.605,"body":"found to have a higher"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":763.605,"endTime":764.805,"body":"perception of risk."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":765.105,"endTime":767.515,"body":"People with shorter"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":765.105,"endTime":767.515,"body":"residence time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":767.725,"endTime":770.605,"body":"So they've lived in an area"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":767.725,"endTime":770.605,"body":"for a shorter amount of time,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":771.265,"endTime":774.535,"body":"people who have prior knowledge"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":771.265,"endTime":774.535,"body":"and experience and fires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":774.535,"endTime":776.755,"body":"And I want to come back to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":774.535,"endTime":776.755,"body":"experience in a moment cause"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":776.805,"endTime":778.245,"body":"that's a really complicated."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":779.033,"endTime":782.603,"body":"People who have seen very"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":779.033,"endTime":782.603,"body":"intense cues are more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":782.603,"endTime":784.973,"body":"likely to have higher"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":782.603,"endTime":784.973,"body":"perceptions of risks."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":784.973,"endTime":788.513,"body":"So if they see others"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":784.973,"endTime":788.513,"body":"evacuating, if they see"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":788.513,"endTime":791.843,"body":"flames or embers in their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":788.513,"endTime":791.843,"body":"neighborhood, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":791.883,"endTime":794.003,"body":"That helps them to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":791.883,"endTime":794.003,"body":"realize, oh my gosh, this"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":794.003,"endTime":795.233,"body":"is a real threat to me."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":795.803,"endTime":798.653,"body":"And also the types of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":795.803,"endTime":798.653,"body":"information that they receive."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":798.893,"endTime":802.763,"body":"So if they receive information"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":798.893,"endTime":802.763,"body":"from a trusted source and the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":802.763,"endTime":806.363,"body":"source is not the same for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":802.763,"endTime":806.363,"body":"everyone, unfortunately, they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":806.363,"endTime":807.863,"body":"more likely to feel at risk."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":807.863,"endTime":810.353,"body":"And then if they receive"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":807.863,"endTime":810.353,"body":"information about not only"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":810.353,"endTime":813.203,"body":"that a fire is occurring,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":810.353,"endTime":813.203,"body":"but what are the consequences"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":813.203,"endTime":814.673,"body":"of this thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":814.673,"endTime":818.123,"body":"How can it affect me personally,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":814.673,"endTime":818.123,"body":"then they're more likely to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":818.123,"endTime":820.813,"body":"feel at risk and take action."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":821.393,"endTime":825.098,"body":"There's other things aside"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":821.393,"endTime":825.098,"body":"from risk perception that can"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":825.098,"endTime":826.798,"body":"affect our decision to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":826.798,"endTime":830.878,"body":"Like if people have pets"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":826.798,"endTime":830.878,"body":"and livestock, they really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":830.878,"endTime":835.378,"body":"have to think about what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":830.878,"endTime":835.378,"body":"they will do with them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":835.738,"endTime":838.988,"body":"And research has shown"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":835.738,"endTime":838.988,"body":"that it reduces the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":838.988,"endTime":840.638,"body":"likelihood of evacuating."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":841.098,"endTime":844.818,"body":"Having children increases"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":841.098,"endTime":844.818,"body":"the likelihood of evacuating"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":844.952,"endTime":849.548,"body":"and self-efficacy, that's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":844.952,"endTime":849.548,"body":"another really important one."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":850.088,"endTime":854.648,"body":"And that's, people's belief in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":850.088,"endTime":854.648,"body":"their ability to perform actions"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":854.648,"endTime":856.118,"body":"that can reduce their risk."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":856.208,"endTime":856.538,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":856.538,"endTime":858.548,"body":"They feel like they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":856.538,"endTime":858.548,"body":"can have influence."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":859.103,"endTime":860.073,"body":"They can the fire"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":860.213,"endTime":861.203,"body":"In a way, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":861.233,"endTime":865.533,"body":"So if I have taken action"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":861.233,"endTime":865.533,"body":"in my home then maybe I'm"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":865.533,"endTime":868.143,"body":"more likely to feel like"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":865.533,"endTime":868.143,"body":"it's a safe place to be."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":868.503,"endTime":873.127,"body":"So self efficacy plays quite a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":868.503,"endTime":873.127,"body":"big role in that it can increase"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":873.157,"endTime":875.137,"body":"people's likelihood to stay."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":875.767,"endTime":879.097,"body":"And I think that has to do with,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":875.767,"endTime":879.097,"body":"it's also decreasing people's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":879.397,"endTime":881.017,"body":"perception of risk, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":881.017,"endTime":884.047,"body":"That I can do something"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":881.017,"endTime":884.047,"body":"to protect myself."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":884.677,"endTime":888.427,"body":"And lastly, if people think"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":884.677,"endTime":888.427,"body":"that evacuation isn't an"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":888.427,"endTime":891.937,"body":"effective way to reduce"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":888.427,"endTime":891.937,"body":"their risk, then they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":891.937,"endTime":893.737,"body":"more likely to stay in place."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":894.307,"endTime":897.037,"body":"So I know I threw a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":894.307,"endTime":897.037,"body":"lot of things at you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":897.847,"endTime":898.627,"body":"I was prepared."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":898.972,"endTime":901.492,"body":"That's what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":898.972,"endTime":901.492,"body":"we look at when we do these"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":901.492,"endTime":902.902,"body":"studies, we try to understand."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":903.402,"endTime":906.582,"body":"What's going on around them, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":903.402,"endTime":906.582,"body":"also what they're bringing to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":906.582,"endTime":910.632,"body":"the fire and how it influences"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":906.582,"endTime":910.632,"body":"their decisions to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":911.052,"endTime":915.452,"body":"And the reason we care about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":911.052,"endTime":915.452,"body":"that is because not only do"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":915.452,"endTime":917.582,"body":"we want to model it, and I'm"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":915.452,"endTime":917.582,"body":"assuming you'll have some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":917.582,"endTime":921.122,"body":"questions for me about that,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":917.582,"endTime":921.122,"body":"but I think Lauren Moore"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":921.232,"endTime":924.142,"body":"and they've done quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":921.232,"endTime":924.142,"body":"of work in Australia where"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":924.142,"endTime":928.042,"body":"they've developed archetypes"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":924.142,"endTime":928.042,"body":"and these are kind of types"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":928.042,"endTime":929.392,"body":"of people, if you will."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":929.662,"endTime":929.992,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":929.992,"endTime":933.712,"body":"And we know if we have this type"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":929.992,"endTime":933.712,"body":"of person in this neighborhood,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":934.072,"endTime":937.942,"body":"maybe we'll need to educate"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":934.072,"endTime":937.942,"body":"more or work with them more,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":937.942,"endTime":941.632,"body":"or maybe they'll need more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":937.942,"endTime":941.632,"body":"prompting to evacuate, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":941.632,"endTime":943.222,"body":"they'll need more assistance."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":943.582,"endTime":946.942,"body":"So we're trying to understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":943.582,"endTime":946.942,"body":"the types of people that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":946.942,"endTime":948.712,"body":"exist in various communities."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":949.222,"endTime":951.592,"body":"Can we understand what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":949.222,"endTime":951.592,"body":"they're likely to do?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":952.192,"endTime":955.552,"body":"And then can we make sure that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":952.192,"endTime":955.552,"body":"we're providing and by we,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":955.552,"endTime":957.022,"body":"I mean, emergency officials."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":957.822,"endTime":960.907,"body":"Providing them with additional"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":957.822,"endTime":960.907,"body":"assistance or additional"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":960.907,"endTime":965.167,"body":"prompting, or can we target"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":960.907,"endTime":965.167,"body":"the messaging in a certain"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":965.167,"endTime":970.447,"body":"way to help people understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":965.167,"endTime":970.447,"body":"their risk and take action"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":970.477,"endTime":972.157,"body":"in the safest way possible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":972.233,"endTime":973.103,"body":"It's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":973.253,"endTime":975.953,"body":"You're doing what Facebook has"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":973.253,"endTime":975.953,"body":"been doing with advertising"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":975.953,"endTime":978.323,"body":"for like the last decade, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":978.853,"endTime":980.583,"body":"right,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":978.853,"endTime":980.583,"body":"but it's for life safety."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":981.083,"endTime":982.223,"body":"this work and it works."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":982.223,"endTime":982.853,"body":"So that's great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":982.913,"endTime":983.603,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":984.263,"endTime":986.723,"body":"thing  kept ringing in my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":984.263,"endTime":986.723,"body":"head I was wondering about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":986.723,"endTime":988.833,"body":"this type of let's say"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":986.723,"endTime":988.833,"body":"herd behavior of people."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":989.193,"endTime":991.383,"body":"And I see that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":989.193,"endTime":991.383,"body":"often in buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":991.413,"endTime":994.283,"body":"It's often it matters when the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":991.413,"endTime":994.283,"body":"first person starts to evacuate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":994.343,"endTime":997.913,"body":"and the other, see them, that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":994.343,"endTime":997.913,"body":"person and start running away."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":998.513,"endTime":1000.943,"body":"Now I wondered if the same"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":998.513,"endTime":1000.943,"body":"thing can be observed in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1000.943,"endTime":1004.363,"body":"communities, to what extent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1000.943,"endTime":1004.363,"body":"this is influenced by them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1004.453,"endTime":1004.723,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1005.223,"endTime":1008.133,"body":"I also wondered how would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1005.223,"endTime":1008.133,"body":"it work across community?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1008.223,"endTime":1012.093,"body":"Because if you have a raging"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1008.223,"endTime":1012.093,"body":"wildfire, it can devour a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1012.093,"endTime":1013.503,"body":"town after town, I assume."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1014.043,"endTime":1017.343,"body":"So to what extent, like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1014.043,"endTime":1017.343,"body":"destroying one city would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1017.823,"endTime":1019.893,"body":"promote the evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1017.823,"endTime":1019.893,"body":"of another city."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1019.983,"endTime":1022.463,"body":"Once it moves to what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1019.983,"endTime":1022.463,"body":"extent this is a factor it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1022.463,"endTime":1023.483,"body":"really fascinating to me."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1023.983,"endTime":1024.553,"body":"I love that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1024.553,"endTime":1030.763,"body":"You're so fascinated by it"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1024.553,"endTime":1030.763,"body":"because it's, I am too, I really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1030.763,"endTime":1031.963,"body":"enjoy talking to you about this."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1032.233,"endTime":1036.333,"body":"So yes, social influence"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1032.233,"endTime":1036.333,"body":"absolutely plays a role in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1036.333,"endTime":1037.763,"body":"buildings  as you mentioned."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1038.153,"endTime":1041.823,"body":"And that's why,  just"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1038.153,"endTime":1041.823,"body":"distributing a pre"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1041.823,"endTime":1044.113,"body":"evacuation time is."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1045.658,"endTime":1046.798,"body":"Just curious, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1046.798,"endTime":1048.718,"body":"Because it's kind of all right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1048.828,"endTime":1050.848,"body":"You're a bunch of people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1048.828,"endTime":1050.848,"body":"in a room and we're just"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1050.848,"endTime":1053.098,"body":"going to give them all a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1050.848,"endTime":1053.098,"body":"different pre evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1053.098,"endTime":1056.518,"body":"time in our simulation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1053.098,"endTime":1056.518,"body":"model and see what happens."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1056.878,"endTime":1059.638,"body":"But we know that people in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1056.878,"endTime":1059.638,"body":"the same room are definitely"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1059.718,"endTime":1062.118,"body":"in the same space are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1059.718,"endTime":1062.118,"body":"influenced by what people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1062.118,"endTime":1063.198,"body":"are doing around them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1063.718,"endTime":1066.598,"body":"So it's very artificial to be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1063.718,"endTime":1066.598,"body":"thinking about pre evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1066.598,"endTime":1067.948,"body":"delay time in that way."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1068.278,"endTime":1071.888,"body":"If we see someone, and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1068.278,"endTime":1071.888,"body":"they're packing up their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1071.888,"endTime":1076.268,"body":"belongings and they're taking"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1071.888,"endTime":1076.268,"body":"whatever's going on seriously."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1076.928,"endTime":1082.058,"body":"And especially if we feel like"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1076.928,"endTime":1082.058,"body":"they're a credible source to us."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1082.058,"endTime":1083.718,"body":"So I know them,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1082.058,"endTime":1083.718,"body":"they're my colleague."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1083.778,"endTime":1086.478,"body":"I talked to them every day and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1083.778,"endTime":1086.478,"body":"they think this is serious."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1086.868,"endTime":1090.128,"body":"Then people are more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1086.868,"endTime":1090.128,"body":"likely to start preparing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1090.128,"endTime":1092.108,"body":"themselves and to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1092.628,"endTime":1095.718,"body":"In my dissertation, in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1092.628,"endTime":1095.718,"body":"World Trade Center, it was"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1095.718,"endTime":1098.958,"body":"really these early actors"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1095.718,"endTime":1098.958,"body":"that played quite a role."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1098.958,"endTime":1100.368,"body":"And not only did they start."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1100.868,"endTime":1104.578,"body":"Preparing and getting"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1100.868,"endTime":1104.578,"body":"themselves ready for safety"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1104.578,"endTime":1107.218,"body":"in the World Trade Center,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1104.578,"endTime":1107.218,"body":"they also told other people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1107.218,"endTime":1111.148,"body":"to evacuate and they started"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1107.218,"endTime":1111.148,"body":"assisting other people."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1111.448,"endTime":1113.128,"body":"And that played"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1111.448,"endTime":1113.128,"body":"quite a big role."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1113.128,"endTime":1116.758,"body":"And these early actors were"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1113.128,"endTime":1116.758,"body":"people who had fire experience,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1116.758,"endTime":1120.358,"body":"who were fire wardens, people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1116.758,"endTime":1120.358,"body":"in management positions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1120.358,"endTime":1123.118,"body":"So these people were stepping"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1120.358,"endTime":1123.118,"body":"up and they were used to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1123.118,"endTime":1125.668,"body":"stepping up even people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1123.118,"endTime":1125.668,"body":"with military training."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1126.188,"endTime":1127.988,"body":"So that played quite a big role."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1127.988,"endTime":1132.578,"body":"And I would say the same is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1127.988,"endTime":1132.578,"body":"true for large-scale disasters."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1132.858,"endTime":1136.285,"body":"If people see their neighbors"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1132.858,"endTime":1136.285,"body":"take  you know, preparation,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1136.465,"endTime":1138.625,"body":"they might go over there and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1136.465,"endTime":1138.625,"body":"ask, Hey, what are you doing?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1138.625,"endTime":1139.435,"body":"Like what's going on?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1139.435,"endTime":1142.525,"body":"And that's kind of that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1139.435,"endTime":1142.525,"body":"milling that goes on, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1142.525,"endTime":1146.535,"body":"That plays quite a role in our"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1142.525,"endTime":1146.535,"body":"decision-making and people need"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1146.535,"endTime":1149.205,"body":"confirmation of the threat also."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1149.535,"endTime":1151.825,"body":"And so when they receive a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1149.535,"endTime":1151.825,"body":"message, but then they see"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1151.825,"endTime":1155.095,"body":"their neighbor preparing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1151.825,"endTime":1155.095,"body":"that's confirming, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1155.095,"endTime":1156.985,"body":"Someone else is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1155.095,"endTime":1156.985,"body":"taking this seriously."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1157.015,"endTime":1159.295,"body":"Maybe I should take"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1157.015,"endTime":1159.295,"body":"it seriously as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1159.795,"endTime":1161.39,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1159.795,"endTime":1161.39,"body":"can you go opposite way?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1161.45,"endTime":1163.73,"body":"Like you've mentioned that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1161.45,"endTime":1163.73,"body":"people who have livestock do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1163.73,"endTime":1167.126,"body":"not want to evacuate people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1163.73,"endTime":1167.126,"body":"who have bigger self efficacy,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1167.126,"endTime":1171.536,"body":"then they can try to let's say"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1167.126,"endTime":1171.536,"body":"survive the fire at their place."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1172.046,"endTime":1174.866,"body":"So this would be like the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1172.046,"endTime":1174.866,"body":"negative actors in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1175.586,"endTime":1178.736,"body":"If we consider the evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1175.586,"endTime":1178.736,"body":"as the general good."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1178.841,"endTime":1179.831,"body":"exactly right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1179.831,"endTime":1181.691,"body":"That's not always the case."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1181.971,"endTime":1185.171,"body":"Sometimes it's not the safe"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1181.971,"endTime":1185.171,"body":"thing to do, but yes, when an"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1185.171,"endTime":1187.871,"body":"evacuation is called for, if"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1185.171,"endTime":1187.871,"body":"you're noting that there are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1187.871,"endTime":1191.861,"body":"some people who would stay"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1187.871,"endTime":1191.861,"body":"and if people see that type of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1191.861,"endTime":1195.251,"body":"behavior, it can also influence"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1191.861,"endTime":1195.251,"body":"their decision to stay as well."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1195.461,"endTime":1197.351,"body":"So it definitely goes both ways."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1197.671,"endTime":1200.821,"body":"But you know, there's a lot that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1197.671,"endTime":1200.821,"body":"needs to be taken into account."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1201.251,"endTime":1204.071,"body":"Maybe that's not negative"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1201.251,"endTime":1204.071,"body":"behavior for them, maybe that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1204.071,"endTime":1205.421,"body":"is the right decision for them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1205.421,"endTime":1208.031,"body":"If they have a number of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1205.421,"endTime":1208.031,"body":"livestock and they need"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1208.031,"endTime":1211.361,"body":"to be there and make sure"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1208.031,"endTime":1211.361,"body":"that they're taken care of."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1211.951,"endTime":1216.031,"body":"But you also mentioned if"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1211.951,"endTime":1216.031,"body":"a fire is occurring in one"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1216.031,"endTime":1219.031,"body":"location and you know, what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1216.031,"endTime":1219.031,"body":"about this other location?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1219.131,"endTime":1221.201,"body":"And it's something that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1219.131,"endTime":1221.201,"body":"I'm really interested in."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1221.201,"endTime":1224.561,"body":"I know that there are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1221.201,"endTime":1224.561,"body":"people, especially in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1224.561,"endTime":1228.311,"body":"bush here in Australia"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1224.561,"endTime":1228.311,"body":"who are very aware, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1228.311,"endTime":1229.571,"body":"That fires are occurring."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1229.601,"endTime":1232.631,"body":"They look on their map,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1229.601,"endTime":1232.631,"body":"their apps, the maps,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1232.631,"endTime":1235.001,"body":"to understand where the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1232.631,"endTime":1235.001,"body":"fires are related to them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1235.501,"endTime":1238.531,"body":"And if a fire is occurring"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1235.501,"endTime":1238.531,"body":"nearby to them, they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1238.531,"endTime":1241.641,"body":"monitoring that's likely"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1238.531,"endTime":1241.641,"body":"to happen in some of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1241.641,"endTime":1244.161,"body":"these communities that are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1241.641,"endTime":1244.161,"body":"very familiar with fire."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1244.661,"endTime":1245.621,"body":"Some people are not."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1246.111,"endTime":1246.951,"body":"It just depends."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1246.951,"endTime":1248.841,"body":"And there's all that,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1246.951,"endTime":1248.841,"body":"all those factors that I"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1248.841,"endTime":1250.041,"body":"mentioned before to you."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1250.311,"endTime":1250.661,"body":"but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1250.695,"endTime":1254.581,"body":"I think also media plays a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1250.695,"endTime":1254.581,"body":"role too, and that if we're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1254.581,"endTime":1258.691,"body":"showing a large evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1254.581,"endTime":1258.691,"body":"in one community, it could"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1259.301,"endTime":1262.171,"body":"effect what people are doing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1259.301,"endTime":1262.171,"body":"in this other community."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1262.511,"endTime":1263.301,"body":"It's interesting."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1263.311,"endTime":1266.071,"body":"I've never done research on"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1263.311,"endTime":1266.071,"body":"that to understand, you know,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1266.071,"endTime":1269.401,"body":"the role of, okay, you're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1266.071,"endTime":1269.401,"body":"seeing this video of this"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1269.401,"endTime":1271.381,"body":"community over evacuating."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1271.901,"endTime":1273.331,"body":"What does that mean for you?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1273.591,"endTime":1276.201,"body":"The other issue is whether"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1273.591,"endTime":1276.201,"body":"or not they're seeing people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1276.201,"endTime":1278.691,"body":"freely evacuating, or if"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1276.201,"endTime":1278.691,"body":"they're seeing people in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1278.691,"endTime":1282.131,"body":"next community in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1278.691,"endTime":1282.131,"body":"congestion that certainly"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1282.131,"endTime":1283.481,"body":"can play a role as well."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1283.481,"endTime":1286.241,"body":"Does that mean I need to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1283.481,"endTime":1286.241,"body":"leave now and get out of here?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1286.241,"endTime":1288.911,"body":"So the same doesn't happen"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1286.241,"endTime":1288.911,"body":"to me or does this mean"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1288.911,"endTime":1290.051,"body":"I'm not going to go at all."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1290.531,"endTime":1292.931,"body":"Assume"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1290.531,"endTime":1292.931,"body":"from this relations, you can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1293.021,"endTime":1296.051,"body":"actually tell if people are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1293.021,"endTime":1296.051,"body":"evacuating because they've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1296.081,"endTime":1298.871,"body":"planned it or they are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1296.081,"endTime":1298.871,"body":"escaping for their lives."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1298.901,"endTime":1301.251,"body":"You know, that there's a,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1298.901,"endTime":1301.251,"body":"there's quite a bit difference."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1301.251,"endTime":1304.451,"body":"And if you see a video of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1301.251,"endTime":1304.451,"body":"someone driving through a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1304.451,"endTime":1307.751,"body":"forest or a bush, which is on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1304.451,"endTime":1307.751,"body":"fire and there's fire on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1307.751,"endTime":1311.951,"body":"left fire on the right wall"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1307.751,"endTime":1311.951,"body":"of smoke in front, I would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1311.951,"endTime":1314.921,"body":"not ever would like to see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1311.951,"endTime":1314.921,"body":"myself in such a situation,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1314.951,"endTime":1316.181,"body":"especially with my family."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1316.516,"endTime":1316.876,"body":"agree."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1316.876,"endTime":1317.986,"body":"It's very scary."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1318.166,"endTime":1319.156,"body":"It was a very scary."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1319.156,"endTime":1322.966,"body":"situation and it might be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1319.156,"endTime":1322.966,"body":"that maybe they wait, they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1322.966,"endTime":1326.626,"body":"wanted to wait and see, and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1322.966,"endTime":1326.626,"body":"that's a very common behavior."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1326.626,"endTime":1328.546,"body":"And that goes back to what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1326.626,"endTime":1328.546,"body":"you and I were talking"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1328.546,"endTime":1330.256,"body":"about confirming the risk."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1330.676,"endTime":1333.616,"body":"If people didn't, if they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1330.676,"endTime":1333.616,"body":"weren't able to that to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1333.616,"endTime":1336.196,"body":"confirm the risk, if their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1333.616,"endTime":1336.196,"body":"risk perception didn't"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1336.196,"endTime":1339.456,"body":"reach that threshold, then"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1336.196,"endTime":1339.456,"body":"maybe they  waited to see if"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1339.456,"endTime":1342.636,"body":"something was going on and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1339.456,"endTime":1342.636,"body":"left at the very last moment."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1342.636,"endTime":1345.396,"body":"Or maybe they just didn't"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1342.636,"endTime":1345.396,"body":"receive the warning in time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1345.586,"endTime":1346.586,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1345.586,"endTime":1346.586,"body":"have also mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1346.616,"endTime":1350.496,"body":"previous experience, and I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1346.616,"endTime":1350.496,"body":"was wondering how to touch on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1350.496,"endTime":1354.866,"body":"that, because this previous"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1350.496,"endTime":1354.866,"body":"experience, actually in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1354.866,"endTime":1357.716,"body":"buildings, you have this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1354.866,"endTime":1357.716,"body":"evacuation drills, you know,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1358.016,"endTime":1361.826,"body":"it's easier to train and you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1358.016,"endTime":1361.826,"body":"will not make a, an evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1361.826,"endTime":1363.446,"body":"drill of a town or would you?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1363.621,"endTime":1365.061,"body":"You would, you would."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1365.116,"endTime":1365.616,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1366.206,"endTime":1369.816,"body":"But, how to build this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1366.206,"endTime":1369.816,"body":"previous experience without"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1369.846,"endTime":1372.876,"body":"exposing people to like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1369.846,"endTime":1372.876,"body":"real threat, is there a way"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1373.191,"endTime":1375.021,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1373.191,"endTime":1375.021,"body":"a great, great question."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1375.051,"endTime":1377.091,"body":"And it's actually something"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1375.051,"endTime":1377.091,"body":"that I'm looking into"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1377.091,"endTime":1380.631,"body":"now on a current project,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1377.091,"endTime":1380.631,"body":"but I have so much to say"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1380.631,"endTime":1381.771,"body":"about previous experience."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1381.771,"endTime":1383.871,"body":"It's such an important question."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1383.871,"endTime":1384.921,"body":"I'm glad you've asked it."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1385.341,"endTime":1389.541,"body":"So let me first say that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1385.341,"endTime":1389.541,"body":"you can do a full-scale"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1389.541,"endTime":1392.121,"body":"evacuation of a town and some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1389.541,"endTime":1392.121,"body":"communities have done it."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1392.121,"endTime":1396.821,"body":"I was in Colorado before the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1392.121,"endTime":1396.821,"body":"pandemic and a community did"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1396.821,"endTime":1399.371,"body":"a full scale evacuation drill."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1399.325,"endTime":1401.533,"body":"The warnings were sent"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1399.325,"endTime":1401.533,"body":"out at a certain time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1401.533,"endTime":1402.673,"body":"Everybody knew ahead of time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1403.133,"endTime":1406.513,"body":"And they got in their cars"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1403.133,"endTime":1406.513,"body":"and they traveled the one"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1406.513,"endTime":1409.843,"body":"route out and then they also"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1406.513,"endTime":1409.843,"body":"practice the other routes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1409.843,"endTime":1412.273,"body":"And then they came back"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1409.843,"endTime":1412.273,"body":"to a community center and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1412.273,"endTime":1415.343,"body":"discussed kind of a debrief"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1412.273,"endTime":1415.343,"body":"on how it went, but not"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1415.343,"endTime":1417.023,"body":"every community can do that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1417.353,"endTime":1419.213,"body":"Not every community does that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1419.423,"endTime":1420.263,"body":"So I agree."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1420.263,"endTime":1422.963,"body":"It's definitely not as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1420.263,"endTime":1422.963,"body":"frequent as would occur"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1422.963,"endTime":1426.733,"body":"in a building evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1422.963,"endTime":1426.733,"body":"being able to practice it."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1427.033,"endTime":1429.913,"body":"It takes an entire community"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1427.033,"endTime":1429.913,"body":"out of commission for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1429.913,"endTime":1431.443,"body":"quite, quite a bit of time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1431.683,"endTime":1433.003,"body":"It takes a lot of time, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1433.053,"endTime":1434.883,"body":"But it is possible."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1435.313,"endTime":1439.663,"body":"But previous experience"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1435.313,"endTime":1439.663,"body":"is difficult because it"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1439.663,"endTime":1443.083,"body":"can mean so many different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1439.663,"endTime":1443.083,"body":"things to different people."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1443.653,"endTime":1446.953,"body":"So the problem is, and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1443.653,"endTime":1446.953,"body":"I'm putting my own."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1447.718,"endTime":1451.738,"body":"Research under scrutiny"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1447.718,"endTime":1451.738,"body":"here, but a lot of times in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1451.738,"endTime":1455.098,"body":"surveys, we ask very basic"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1451.738,"endTime":1455.098,"body":"questions about experience."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1455.098,"endTime":1458.248,"body":"We just say, have you ever"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1455.098,"endTime":1458.248,"body":"been in a fire before?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1458.698,"endTime":1461.788,"body":"Or we ask, have you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1458.698,"endTime":1461.788,"body":"ever evacuated, how many"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1461.788,"endTime":1463.318,"body":"times have you evacuated?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1463.798,"endTime":1467.968,"body":"But that doesn't get"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1463.798,"endTime":1467.968,"body":"to the how important"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1467.968,"endTime":1469.468,"body":"previous experience can be."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1469.768,"endTime":1473.308,"body":"People could have evacuated and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1469.768,"endTime":1473.308,"body":"nothing happened to their house."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1473.998,"endTime":1476.798,"body":"So they could have said, well,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1473.998,"endTime":1476.798,"body":"that's a false alarm, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1476.798,"endTime":1478.508,"body":"They could have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1476.798,"endTime":1478.508,"body":"perceived it as that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1478.718,"endTime":1479.798,"body":"I didn't need to go."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1480.278,"endTime":1483.248,"body":"People could have not evacuated"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1480.278,"endTime":1483.248,"body":"and nothing happened to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1483.248,"endTime":1486.131,"body":"their house, People could"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1483.248,"endTime":1486.131,"body":"have evacuated with plenty"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1486.131,"endTime":1489.371,"body":"of time and it was not a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1486.131,"endTime":1489.371,"body":"traumatic experience for them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1489.701,"endTime":1492.881,"body":"People may have evacuated in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1489.701,"endTime":1492.881,"body":"very dangerous conditions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1492.971,"endTime":1494.861,"body":"Could have been, as you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1492.971,"endTime":1494.861,"body":"mentioned, the fire, or"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1494.861,"endTime":1497.321,"body":"it could have been heavy"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1494.861,"endTime":1497.321,"body":"congestion that is also"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1497.321,"endTime":1498.691,"body":"very traumatic for people."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1499.351,"endTime":1503.111,"body":"Sitting in traffic, the fires"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1499.351,"endTime":1503.111,"body":"over there, they're stopped."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1503.451,"endTime":1505.161,"body":"So that, that could"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1503.451,"endTime":1505.161,"body":"be very traumatic."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1505.321,"endTime":1507.511,"body":"People may have evacuated"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1505.321,"endTime":1507.511,"body":"and came back to a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1507.511,"endTime":1509.071,"body":"damaged or destroyed home."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1509.571,"endTime":1512.631,"body":"Maybe they didn't evacuate,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1509.571,"endTime":1512.631,"body":"but they encountered extremely"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1512.631,"endTime":1516.111,"body":"dangerous conditions when they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1512.631,"endTime":1516.111,"body":"were sheltering in place and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1516.111,"endTime":1520.461,"body":"they could have lost a loved one"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1516.111,"endTime":1520.461,"body":"in a fire had personal injury."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1520.761,"endTime":1527.601,"body":"So it's like previous experience"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1520.761,"endTime":1527.601,"body":"spans quite a range of different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1527.751,"endTime":1529.491,"body":"consequences if you will."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1529.881,"endTime":1532.971,"body":"And we're not in a lot of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1529.881,"endTime":1532.971,"body":"different studies we're not"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1533.031,"endTime":1535.071,"body":"digging into the nuances there."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1535.671,"endTime":1539.571,"body":"And so in recent study of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1535.671,"endTime":1539.571,"body":"the Kincade fire, which was"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1539.571,"endTime":1542.811,"body":"the 2019 fire in California."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1543.318,"endTime":1546.078,"body":"We did ask that question"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1543.318,"endTime":1546.078,"body":"about previous experience."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1546.378,"endTime":1548.988,"body":"Unfortunately, there"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1546.378,"endTime":1548.988,"body":"wasn't enough variance"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1549.288,"endTime":1550.968,"body":"in the response, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1550.968,"endTime":1554.558,"body":"So we couldn't include it"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1550.968,"endTime":1554.558,"body":"in our regression, but we"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1554.558,"endTime":1557.018,"body":"analyzed the end of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1554.558,"endTime":1557.018,"body":"survey comments, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1557.018,"endTime":1559.178,"body":"That open box at the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1557.018,"endTime":1559.178,"body":"end of our survey."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1559.178,"endTime":1562.208,"body":"And we just ask people to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1559.178,"endTime":1562.208,"body":"provide additional information."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1562.718,"endTime":1566.918,"body":"And so many people talked about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1562.718,"endTime":1566.918,"body":"the fire that had occurred two"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1566.918,"endTime":1570.248,"body":"years prior to 2017 Tubbs fire."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1570.968,"endTime":1574.608,"body":"And we found out from analysis"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1570.968,"endTime":1574.608,"body":"of those comments that Tubbs"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1574.608,"endTime":1578.238,"body":"fire influenced people's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1574.608,"endTime":1578.238,"body":"awareness of the fire that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1578.238,"endTime":1579.888,"body":"actually occurred in 2019."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1580.488,"endTime":1583.698,"body":"It some people prepared"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1580.488,"endTime":1583.698,"body":"early and were ready to go."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1583.818,"endTime":1585.558,"body":"That they're go kit ready there."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1585.588,"endTime":1586.908,"body":"You know, no nonsense."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1586.958,"endTime":1590.168,"body":"As soon as they were"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1586.958,"endTime":1590.168,"body":"even warned, they didn't"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1590.168,"endTime":1591.248,"body":"even wait for the orders."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1591.938,"endTime":1595.388,"body":"Then they went, it influenced"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1591.938,"endTime":1595.388,"body":"people's evacuation decision."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1595.778,"endTime":1598.358,"body":"They said, we're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1595.778,"endTime":1598.358,"body":"not waiting around."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1598.988,"endTime":1600.758,"body":"2017 was terrible."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1600.758,"endTime":1603.308,"body":"And then it also influenced"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1600.758,"endTime":1603.308,"body":"people's departure time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1603.998,"endTime":1608.228,"body":"So some people said to us"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1603.998,"endTime":1608.228,"body":"that I sat in heavy traffic"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1608.228,"endTime":1609.538,"body":"and it was very traumatic."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1609.538,"endTime":1610.948,"body":"So I left early this time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1611.518,"endTime":1614.858,"body":"And I guess in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1611.518,"endTime":1614.858,"body":"conclusion, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1614.858,"endTime":1619.908,"body":"To your question, I think"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1614.858,"endTime":1619.908,"body":"that there's quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1620.118,"endTime":1621.948,"body":"of range of experience."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1621.978,"endTime":1625.188,"body":"We need to delve into that and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1621.978,"endTime":1625.188,"body":"understand what it is about that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1625.188,"endTime":1630.018,"body":"experience to then understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1625.188,"endTime":1630.018,"body":"its role in future behavior."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1630.048,"endTime":1634.568,"body":"Because I think we're, we've"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1630.048,"endTime":1634.568,"body":"not peeled the onion, if"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1634.568,"endTime":1637.058,"body":"you will, we've not really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1634.568,"endTime":1637.058,"body":"kind of understood the ins"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1637.058,"endTime":1638.648,"body":"and outs of that variable."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1638.683,"endTime":1642.133,"body":"There have been some studies"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1638.683,"endTime":1642.133,"body":"that have looked at this"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1642.133,"endTime":1643.663,"body":"and delved in a bit more."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1644.013,"endTime":1645.993,"body":"But not enough, I think."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1646.023,"endTime":1648.603,"body":"And so it's something that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1646.023,"endTime":1648.603,"body":"I'm working on at the moment."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1649.233,"endTime":1652.563,"body":"And then you also asked"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1649.233,"endTime":1652.563,"body":"about, okay, well then what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1652.563,"endTime":1653.853,"body":"does it mean for the future?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1653.903,"endTime":1656.723,"body":"How do we make sure"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1653.903,"endTime":1656.723,"body":"that people understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1656.723,"endTime":1657.953,"body":"their threats and risk?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1657.983,"endTime":1659.873,"body":"And I don't really have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1657.983,"endTime":1659.873,"body":"a great answer to that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1659.873,"endTime":1663.023,"body":"Although I'm thinking of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1659.873,"endTime":1663.023,"body":"a few, I've got some ideas"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1663.323,"endTime":1668.343,"body":"in my head but it's really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1663.323,"endTime":1668.343,"body":"helping people to understand."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1668.373,"endTime":1670.083,"body":"And I'm sorry, I keep"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1668.373,"endTime":1670.083,"body":"coming back to this, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1670.083,"endTime":1671.343,"body":"the threat and the risk."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1671.763,"endTime":1675.483,"body":"So how can we help people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1671.763,"endTime":1675.483,"body":"to understand, okay, this is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1675.483,"endTime":1677.193,"body":"how fast a fire can spread."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1677.693,"endTime":1680.753,"body":"This is what a fire,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1677.693,"endTime":1680.753,"body":"is going to look like."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1680.783,"endTime":1683.253,"body":"If you're in the middle"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1680.783,"endTime":1683.253,"body":"of it, here's what will"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1683.253,"endTime":1684.243,"body":"happen if you wait until."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1684.743,"endTime":1688.673,"body":"Here's how, and obviously I"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1684.743,"endTime":1688.673,"body":"don't expect to immerse someone,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1688.673,"endTime":1692.243,"body":"but here's how hot these things"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1688.673,"endTime":1692.243,"body":"can get right in the heat."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1692.793,"endTime":1696.813,"body":"But just to help people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1692.793,"endTime":1696.813,"body":"understand if they stay behind,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1697.143,"endTime":1700.653,"body":"this is the scenario that you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1697.143,"endTime":1700.653,"body":"could possibly be faced with"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1701.193,"endTime":1703.713,"body":"and it's dangerous, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1703.743,"endTime":1706.983,"body":"And as climate is changing,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1703.743,"endTime":1706.983,"body":"as the fires are becoming"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1706.983,"endTime":1711.073,"body":"more intense as they're, the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1706.983,"endTime":1711.073,"body":"winds are picking up and maybe"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1711.073,"endTime":1714.043,"body":"fires are spreading faster"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1711.073,"endTime":1714.043,"body":"or burning more land area."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1714.703,"endTime":1717.553,"body":"This is what you need to know,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1714.703,"endTime":1717.553,"body":"not just about the fires that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1717.553,"endTime":1720.463,"body":"have occurred in the past,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1717.553,"endTime":1720.463,"body":"but this is what you need to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1720.463,"endTime":1723.433,"body":"know about the fires that are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1720.463,"endTime":1723.433,"body":"likely in the future and how"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1723.433,"endTime":1725.053,"body":"they could possibly affect you."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1725.533,"endTime":1728.923,"body":"And what keeps coming up"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1725.533,"endTime":1728.923,"body":"for me is consequences."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1729.433,"endTime":1733.813,"body":"And this is what they have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1729.433,"endTime":1733.813,"body":"known in risk communication"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1733.813,"endTime":1734.593,"body":"for years and years."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1735.093,"endTime":1738.753,"body":"If people do not understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1735.093,"endTime":1738.753,"body":"the consequences of these"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1738.753,"endTime":1742.293,"body":"events to themselves and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1738.753,"endTime":1742.293,"body":"their families, it's hard for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1742.293,"endTime":1745.963,"body":"them to get to a place where"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1742.293,"endTime":1745.963,"body":"they're going to leave early."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1745.993,"endTime":1746.843,"body":"Not wait and see,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1746.943,"endTime":1749.303,"body":"One thing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1746.943,"endTime":1749.303,"body":"that's very relatable to me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1749.303,"endTime":1751.803,"body":"I wonder if he ever"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1749.303,"endTime":1751.803,"body":"investigated this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1752.373,"endTime":1756.783,"body":"In Poland, we had a lot of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1752.373,"endTime":1756.783,"body":"Polish tourists captured"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1756.783,"endTime":1760.653,"body":"by the fires in like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1756.783,"endTime":1760.653,"body":"Greece or Turkey this year,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1760.743,"endTime":1762.423,"body":"some years ago in Italy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1762.963,"endTime":1763.353,"body":"Where."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1763.853,"endTime":1766.523,"body":"You basically, you could"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1763.853,"endTime":1766.523,"body":"be prepared for a fire at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1766.523,"endTime":1769.793,"body":"home, but you're then exposed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1766.523,"endTime":1769.793,"body":"to completely different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1769.823,"endTime":1772.723,"body":"environment, different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1769.823,"endTime":1772.723,"body":"challenges vegetation that you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1772.723,"endTime":1776.743,"body":"are unfamiliar with the five"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1772.723,"endTime":1776.743,"body":"dynamics you may have never"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1776.773,"endTime":1781.513,"body":"seen, even if you witnessed a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1776.773,"endTime":1781.513,"body":"crown fire in Poland, that's not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1781.513,"endTime":1783.283,"body":"the same as bushfire in Turkey."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1783.833,"endTime":1785.933,"body":"Enrico in our interview"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1783.833,"endTime":1785.933,"body":"also brought that we need to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1785.933,"endTime":1790.103,"body":"understand where are the hotels,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1785.933,"endTime":1790.103,"body":"who are in these places, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1790.103,"endTime":1793.673,"body":"to what extent that changes,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1790.103,"endTime":1793.673,"body":"because if you are talking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1793.673,"endTime":1797.483,"body":"about the inhabitants of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1793.673,"endTime":1797.483,"body":"wild land, urban interface,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1798.173,"endTime":1800.273,"body":"it's people who can train,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1798.173,"endTime":1800.273,"body":"but tourists, it's not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1800.273,"endTime":1803.603,"body":"possible to train them, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1800.273,"endTime":1803.603,"body":"yet you have to account for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1803.603,"endTime":1805.043,"body":"them in your preparedness."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1805.073,"endTime":1808.063,"body":"And it was this something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1805.073,"endTime":1808.063,"body":"that you've studied or maybe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1808.063,"endTime":1810.133,"body":"again, this is something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1808.063,"endTime":1810.133,"body":"that can come from hurricane."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1810.183,"endTime":1810.843,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1810.873,"endTime":1811.263,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1811.293,"endTime":1815.103,"body":"And there have been some studies"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1811.293,"endTime":1815.103,"body":"in the bushfire area about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1815.283,"endTime":1820.083,"body":"tourists and actually work in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1815.283,"endTime":1820.083,"body":"Australia that came out of the,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1820.673,"endTime":1824.033,"body":"quite intense 2019 - 2020 fires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1824.423,"endTime":1827.503,"body":"That study to talk to not"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1824.423,"endTime":1827.503,"body":"just people who lived in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1827.503,"endTime":1828.883,"body":"area, but visitors as well."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1828.913,"endTime":1831.063,"body":"And I'm doing some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1828.913,"endTime":1831.063,"body":"work on bushfire maps."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1831.073,"endTime":1832.813,"body":"I'll come back to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1831.073,"endTime":1832.813,"body":"that in a second."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1833.183,"endTime":1837.893,"body":"But yes, visitors, tourists"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1833.183,"endTime":1837.893,"body":"are very important, as you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1837.923,"endTime":1840.203,"body":"mentioned, and as Enrico"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1837.923,"endTime":1840.203,"body":"mentioned to understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1840.203,"endTime":1843.353,"body":"where they're located in your"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1840.203,"endTime":1843.353,"body":"community, because that goes"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1843.353,"endTime":1846.113,"body":"back to some of the targeted"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1843.353,"endTime":1846.113,"body":"messaging that you and I talked"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1846.113,"endTime":1847.163,"body":"about in the very beginning."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1847.643,"endTime":1851.633,"body":"Is to understand who is where,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1847.643,"endTime":1851.633,"body":"and that there might need"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1851.633,"endTime":1853.943,"body":"some additional prompting"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1851.633,"endTime":1853.943,"body":"or additional information."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1854.443,"endTime":1857.143,"body":"The Chimney Tops Two fire"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1854.443,"endTime":1857.143,"body":"that you asked me about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1857.143,"endTime":1861.793,"body":"earlier happened in an area"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1857.143,"endTime":1861.793,"body":"where not only are their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1861.793,"endTime":1865.363,"body":"resident residential, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1861.793,"endTime":1865.363,"body":"they're also cabins and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1865.363,"endTime":1869.683,"body":"places that people rent out"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1865.363,"endTime":1869.683,"body":"and also a hotel as well."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1870.073,"endTime":1873.013,"body":"And we were kind of thinking"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1870.073,"endTime":1873.013,"body":"about, well, can you, as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1873.013,"endTime":1875.863,"body":"soon as you enter this"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1873.013,"endTime":1875.863,"body":"place, whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1876.103,"endTime":1879.143,"body":"you have fire information,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1876.103,"endTime":1879.143,"body":"maybe on the back of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1879.143,"endTime":1882.483,"body":"doors or something of your"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1879.143,"endTime":1882.483,"body":"hotel you're in fire season."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1882.483,"endTime":1883.593,"body":"This is what you need to know."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1883.593,"endTime":1886.083,"body":"These are your routes out"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1883.593,"endTime":1886.083,"body":"because that's the issue."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1886.353,"endTime":1889.663,"body":"It's not just awareness"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1886.353,"endTime":1889.663,"body":"and threat perception, and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1889.663,"endTime":1890.773,"body":"risk perception, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1890.773,"endTime":1893.053,"body":"Which potentially could be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1890.773,"endTime":1893.053,"body":"lower if your visitors and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1893.053,"endTime":1896.023,"body":"you don't know the risk,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1893.053,"endTime":1896.023,"body":"but also once you decide to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1896.023,"endTime":1897.553,"body":"evacuate, where do you go?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1897.556,"endTime":1899.756,"body":"If you're not as familiar"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1897.556,"endTime":1899.756,"body":"with the routes and in some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1899.756,"endTime":1904.776,"body":"of these locations, it's quite"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1899.756,"endTime":1904.776,"body":"windy, mountainous roads which."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1905.458,"endTime":1908.038,"body":"Difficult to navigate,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1905.458,"endTime":1908.038,"body":"especially in smoky"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1908.038,"endTime":1909.268,"body":"or hazy conditions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1909.718,"endTime":1912.268,"body":"So it's important for people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1909.718,"endTime":1912.268,"body":"to understand their threat,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1912.308,"endTime":1915.418,"body":"their risk, but also what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1912.308,"endTime":1915.418,"body":"do they do once they're told"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1915.418,"endTime":1919.058,"body":"to evacuate which is really"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1915.418,"endTime":1919.058,"body":"important for visitors."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1919.568,"endTime":1921.878,"body":"The one thing that I have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1919.568,"endTime":1921.878,"body":"been working on with a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1921.878,"endTime":1926.888,"body":"colleague in a geospatial in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1921.878,"endTime":1926.888,"body":"the School of Science here"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1926.888,"endTime":1929.138,"body":"at RMIT is bushfire maps."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1929.718,"endTime":1932.958,"body":"Because you go from one"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1929.718,"endTime":1932.958,"body":"state to another and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1932.958,"endTime":1934.338,"body":"they use different maps."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1934.568,"endTime":1936.998,"body":"The people may be very familiar"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1934.568,"endTime":1936.998,"body":"with the map in their area."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1936.998,"endTime":1938.288,"body":"They go to a different place."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1938.318,"endTime":1939.728,"body":"It's a completely different map."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1939.883,"endTime":1940.963,"body":"How are they using them?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1940.963,"endTime":1942.103,"body":"How are they making sense?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1942.103,"endTime":1944.773,"body":"And so we're, we're thinking,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1942.103,"endTime":1944.773,"body":"we're looking at that and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1944.773,"endTime":1947.413,"body":"trying to understand how"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1944.773,"endTime":1947.413,"body":"people, both residents."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1947.443,"endTime":1951.523,"body":"And she has a survey that's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1947.443,"endTime":1951.523,"body":"asking tourists how they use"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1951.523,"endTime":1954.193,"body":"bushfire maps and make sense"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1951.523,"endTime":1954.193,"body":"of their own threat and risk"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1954.193,"endTime":1956.323,"body":"and decisions based on that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1956.323,"endTime":1958.633,"body":"So I'm very excited to see"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1956.323,"endTime":1958.633,"body":"what comes out of that work."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1958.963,"endTime":1962.343,"body":"But we've also been talking"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1958.963,"endTime":1962.343,"body":"with different organizations"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1962.343,"endTime":1965.043,"body":"here about standardizing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1962.343,"endTime":1965.043,"body":"some of these maps, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1965.043,"endTime":1967.353,"body":"So when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1965.043,"endTime":1967.353,"body":"visitors going from one place"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1967.353,"endTime":1971.373,"body":"to another, it'd be good to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1967.353,"endTime":1971.373,"body":"keep the information that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1971.373,"endTime":1976.293,"body":"they receive as familiar as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1971.373,"endTime":1976.293,"body":"possible to them as they go"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1976.293,"endTime":1977.853,"body":"from one place to another."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1978.142,"endTime":1982.033,"body":"Targeted information, familiar"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1978.142,"endTime":1982.033,"body":"information, information"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1982.033,"endTime":1984.933,"body":"that they are expecting and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1982.033,"endTime":1984.933,"body":"that they know what to do"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1984.933,"endTime":1988.083,"body":"with when they receive are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1984.933,"endTime":1988.083,"body":"all really important pieces."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1988.293,"endTime":1991.233,"body":"And then as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1988.293,"endTime":1991.233,"body":"the officials knowing kind"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1991.233,"endTime":1992.433,"body":"of where they're located."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1992.433,"endTime":1994.653,"body":"So if they need additional"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1992.433,"endTime":1994.653,"body":"assistance or prompting,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":1994.66,"endTime":1995.23,"body":"they know where to go."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1995.558,"endTime":1995.828,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1995.838,"endTime":1998.431,"body":"Now I would like to lower"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1995.838,"endTime":1998.431,"body":"you into the region of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1998.431,"endTime":2001.851,"body":"computer models and modeling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1998.431,"endTime":2001.851,"body":"this because it's something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2001.931,"endTime":2002.861,"body":"really interesting to me."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2002.861,"endTime":2005.311,"body":"And I know that a lot of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2002.861,"endTime":2005.311,"body":"people in the audience are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2005.441,"endTime":2008.991,"body":"interested in modeling actually,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2005.441,"endTime":2008.991,"body":"behavior of people in fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2009.561,"endTime":2012.981,"body":"And this is something that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2009.561,"endTime":2012.981,"body":"crosses from wildfires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2013.011,"endTime":2017.091,"body":"to building fires all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2013.011,"endTime":2017.091,"body":"areas of fire engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2017.581,"endTime":2020.251,"body":"So tell me, how are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2017.581,"endTime":2020.251,"body":"you modeling this?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2020.311,"endTime":2024.231,"body":"Is this, modeling of decisions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2020.311,"endTime":2024.231,"body":"or is this just some stochastic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2024.231,"endTime":2028.041,"body":"distribution of times or events"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2024.231,"endTime":2028.041,"body":"that come to tell me a bit"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2028.041,"endTime":2029.871,"body":"more on, on how the model did"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2029.926,"endTime":2030.796,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2030.826,"endTime":2031.396,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2031.486,"endTime":2034.336,"body":"And I'm in really enjoying all"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2031.486,"endTime":2034.336,"body":"of these great questions because"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2035.386,"endTime":2037.366,"body":"very, very important questions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2037.366,"endTime":2038.056,"body":"So yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2038.156,"endTime":2040.736,"body":"There are a range of different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2038.156,"endTime":2040.736,"body":"models that are available."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2040.736,"endTime":2044.606,"body":"So in some cases, we are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2040.736,"endTime":2044.606,"body":"modeling this at the aggregate"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2044.606,"endTime":2050.296,"body":"level where we're interested in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2044.606,"endTime":2050.296,"body":"a distribution time for delays"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2050.326,"endTime":2053.356,"body":"of households, everything, you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2050.326,"endTime":2053.356,"body":"know, is at the household level."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2053.686,"endTime":2056.956,"body":"And we're interested in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2053.686,"endTime":2056.956,"body":"relationship between density"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2056.956,"endTime":2060.516,"body":"and speed on the roads based"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2056.956,"endTime":2060.516,"body":"upon the road capacity to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2060.516,"endTime":2062.376,"body":"calculate evacuation time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2062.676,"endTime":2065.546,"body":"Sorry, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2062.676,"endTime":2065.546,"body":"drive to parallel to a building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2065.546,"endTime":2067.976,"body":"That would be what we usually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2065.546,"endTime":2067.976,"body":"do in the buildings with pre"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2067.976,"endTime":2070.706,"body":"evacuation time distributions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2067.976,"endTime":2070.706,"body":"and fundamental diagrams"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2070.946,"endTime":2071.666,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2071.766,"endTime":2072.366,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2072.366,"endTime":2072.696,"body":"That."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2072.976,"endTime":2073.756,"body":"And I don't know."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2073.756,"endTime":2078.026,"body":"Did Enrico, did you guys"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2073.756,"endTime":2078.026,"body":"mention with, with Rino."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2078.526,"endTime":2082.306,"body":"Do you focus on buildings or did"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2078.526,"endTime":2082.306,"body":"you also talk about wildfire?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2082.561,"endTime":2085.621,"body":"Everything, everything under the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2085.691,"endTime":2087.961,"body":"I'm really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2085.691,"endTime":2087.961,"body":"surprised with not going to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2087.991,"endTime":2090.811,"body":"evacuating space colonies in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2087.991,"endTime":2090.811,"body":"that chat it was fantastic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2091.051,"endTime":2093.061,"body":"So we've touched a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2091.051,"endTime":2093.061,"body":"bit of everything."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2093.821,"endTime":2094.361,"body":"that's great."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2094.631,"endTime":2094.991,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2094.991,"endTime":2098.291,"body":"Well, I'm working with,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2094.991,"endTime":2098.291,"body":"Enrico and  international"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2098.291,"endTime":2100.391,"body":"team on the WUI-nity model."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2100.541,"endTime":2104.051,"body":"And so that is right now an"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2100.541,"endTime":2104.051,"body":"aggregate model, but what's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2104.051,"endTime":2107.571,"body":"great about it's a platform"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2104.051,"endTime":2107.571,"body":"that can plug and play, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2107.571,"endTime":2111.381,"body":"So more sophisticated models"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2107.571,"endTime":2111.381,"body":"can be included into WUInity"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2111.511,"endTime":2113.878,"body":"if we wanted to do like"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2111.511,"endTime":2113.878,"body":"agent-based simulation."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2113.878,"endTime":2116.758,"body":"So WUInity he is one of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2113.878,"endTime":2116.758,"body":"those unique models in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2116.758,"endTime":2120.148,"body":"that it models the fire,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2116.758,"endTime":2120.148,"body":"the pedestrian movement."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2120.226,"endTime":2123.106,"body":"You know, movement from"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2120.226,"endTime":2123.106,"body":"the house to the vehicle,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2123.106,"endTime":2126.436,"body":"for example, and that uses"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2123.106,"endTime":2126.436,"body":"the movement speeds that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2126.436,"endTime":2129.666,"body":"we're very familiar with and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2126.436,"endTime":2129.666,"body":"building horizontal spaces"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2130.116,"endTime":2133.746,"body":"and then traffic behavior by"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2130.116,"endTime":2133.746,"body":"traffic movement, if you will."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2133.846,"endTime":2135.856,"body":"I have to be careful"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2133.846,"endTime":2135.856,"body":"with my use of behavior."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2136.126,"endTime":2139.996,"body":"So this is capacity of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2136.126,"endTime":2139.996,"body":"roads and you know, speeds"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2140.236,"endTime":2143.266,"body":"based upon, as you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2140.236,"endTime":2143.266,"body":"the fundamental diagram, and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2143.266,"endTime":2146.506,"body":"here we're very interested in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2143.266,"endTime":2146.506,"body":"calculating evacuation time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2147.256,"endTime":2148.786,"body":"There are other types of models."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2148.786,"endTime":2150.376,"body":"There are more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2148.786,"endTime":2150.376,"body":"sophisticated models."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2150.746,"endTime":2154.166,"body":"One at RMIT that's been"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2150.746,"endTime":2154.166,"body":"developed by Narendra"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2154.166,"endTime":2157.376,"body":"Singh, for example, that is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2154.166,"endTime":2157.376,"body":"using agent-based modeling"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2157.376,"endTime":2160.826,"body":"techniques, to try to predict"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2157.376,"endTime":2160.826,"body":"what people are doing based on"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2160.826,"endTime":2162.236,"body":"the environment around them."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2162.756,"endTime":2166.106,"body":"And so that goes from"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2162.756,"endTime":2166.106,"body":"one range to another and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2166.106,"endTime":2167.216,"body":"everything in between."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2167.726,"endTime":2170.776,"body":"The problem with the models,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2167.726,"endTime":2170.776,"body":"I would say at the moment"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2170.776,"endTime":2171.586,"body":"is they have to make."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2172.456,"endTime":2175.996,"body":"Number of assumptions"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2172.456,"endTime":2175.996,"body":"or, obviously we're all"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2175.996,"endTime":2177.346,"body":"probabilistic in that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2177.346,"endTime":2180.556,"body":"We, we're not going to say,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2177.346,"endTime":2180.556,"body":"everybody that does, this is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2180.556,"endTime":2181.966,"body":"automatically going to do this."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2181.966,"endTime":2185.866,"body":"There's probabilities involved,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2181.966,"endTime":2185.866,"body":"but there are other assumptions"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2185.866,"endTime":2188.596,"body":"that we have to make because"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2185.866,"endTime":2188.596,"body":"we don't have any data on that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2188.966,"endTime":2193.646,"body":"For example, route choice,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2188.966,"endTime":2193.646,"body":"the models that I know of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2193.706,"endTime":2197.696,"body":"either you define it as a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2193.706,"endTime":2197.696,"body":"user, which is predetermining"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2197.696,"endTime":2201.516,"body":"the, the outcome before you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2197.696,"endTime":2201.516,"body":"run the scenario or it's show"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2201.576,"endTime":2203.406,"body":"shortest or fastest route."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2203.976,"endTime":2206.316,"body":"But we know from hurricane"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2203.976,"endTime":2206.316,"body":"research, for example,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2206.316,"endTime":2208.986,"body":"that people are very likely"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2206.316,"endTime":2208.986,"body":"to use a familiar route."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2209.303,"endTime":2212.853,"body":"So it's understanding some of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2209.303,"endTime":2212.853,"body":"these behaviors is what I'm"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2212.853,"endTime":2216.256,"body":"trying to do actually at RMIT"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2212.853,"endTime":2216.256,"body":"is to collect data everywhere"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2216.256,"endTime":2220.306,"body":"from the evacuation decision,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2216.256,"endTime":2220.306,"body":"all the way to the destination."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2220.306,"endTime":2222.736,"body":"Cause there's a number of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2220.306,"endTime":2222.736,"body":"decisions that people make in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2222.736,"endTime":2225.873,"body":"between those two to understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2222.736,"endTime":2225.873,"body":"the behavior associated with"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2225.873,"endTime":2228.513,"body":"that and start getting some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2225.873,"endTime":2228.513,"body":"of that into the models,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2228.513,"endTime":2232.113,"body":"even the agent based models"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2228.513,"endTime":2232.113,"body":"that make some assumptions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2232.703,"endTime":2236.213,"body":"But I want to talk a little"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2232.703,"endTime":2236.213,"body":"bit too about why we care"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2236.213,"endTime":2239.483,"body":"about evacuation simulation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2236.213,"endTime":2239.483,"body":"and link it to buildings."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2239.483,"endTime":2242.947,"body":"Because, that we use evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2239.483,"endTime":2242.947,"body":"models and buildings to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2242.947,"endTime":2245.557,"body":"compare with fire models,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2242.947,"endTime":2245.557,"body":"or maybe we use a model that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2245.557,"endTime":2250.167,"body":"incorporates both, although"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2245.557,"endTime":2250.167,"body":"they're rare to under I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2250.542,"endTime":2251.652,"body":"for compliance."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2251.922,"endTime":2253.372,"body":"rightfor ASET / RSET."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2253.617,"endTime":2254.397,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2254.777,"endTime":2258.547,"body":"But Enrico and his team,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2254.777,"endTime":2258.547,"body":"before I joined their group"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2258.577,"endTime":2261.787,"body":"it's a NIST funded project"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2258.577,"endTime":2261.787,"body":"that WUInity is looked at"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2262.227,"endTime":2265.897,"body":"ASET and RSET for wildfires"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2262.227,"endTime":2265.897,"body":"to come up with a trigger"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2265.897,"endTime":2267.817,"body":"model, which is fantastic."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2267.817,"endTime":2270.237,"body":"And also this is work that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2267.817,"endTime":2270.237,"body":"Tom Koba has been doing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2270.237,"endTime":2271.777,"body":"for years with trigger."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2272.587,"endTime":2277.867,"body":"And so the point is to run the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2272.587,"endTime":2277.867,"body":"evacuation simulations, to get"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2278.077,"endTime":2281.617,"body":"an idea of the range, what's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2278.077,"endTime":2281.617,"body":"the best case scenario and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2281.617,"endTime":2282.637,"body":"what's the evacuation time."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2282.637,"endTime":2285.217,"body":"And what's the worst case"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2282.637,"endTime":2285.217,"body":"scenario and this range of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2285.217,"endTime":2289.117,"body":"evacuation times, and then"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2285.217,"endTime":2289.117,"body":"running a range of fire"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2289.117,"endTime":2293.707,"body":"scenarios and understanding"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2289.117,"endTime":2293.707,"body":"under various scenarios."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2293.697,"endTime":2295.004,"body":"How long will it take."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2295.31,"endTime":2299.159,"body":"This community to evacuate"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2295.31,"endTime":2299.159,"body":"so that they know, right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2299.159,"endTime":2302.459,"body":"We can put kind of a trigger"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2299.159,"endTime":2302.459,"body":"boundary around a community"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2302.459,"endTime":2306.879,"body":"whereby once the fire crosses"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2302.459,"endTime":2306.879,"body":"that point, , some particular"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2306.879,"endTime":2311.439,"body":"type of fire scenario, we know"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2306.879,"endTime":2311.439,"body":"that the, that this community"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2311.439,"endTime":2314.799,"body":"needs to be warned because"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2311.439,"endTime":2314.799,"body":"we know how long it will"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2314.799,"endTime":2317.099,"body":"take the fire to get to the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2314.799,"endTime":2317.099,"body":"beginning of the community."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2317.099,"endTime":2319.679,"body":"We know how long it will take"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2317.099,"endTime":2319.679,"body":"this community to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2320.129,"endTime":2323.729,"body":"And we want to make sure"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2320.129,"endTime":2323.729,"body":"that they're evacuated before"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2323.729,"endTime":2325.079,"body":"the fire gets to that point."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2325.679,"endTime":2329.429,"body":"So the purpose of these models"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2325.679,"endTime":2329.429,"body":"is to help develop this trigger"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2329.429,"endTime":2331.169,"body":"boundary around communities."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2331.169,"endTime":2333.479,"body":"It could be one, it could"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2331.169,"endTime":2333.479,"body":"be a range of boundaries"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2333.989,"endTime":2337.799,"body":"understanding that for different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2333.989,"endTime":2337.799,"body":"fire scenarios, there is some"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2337.799,"endTime":2341.789,"body":"kind of buffer whereby once"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2337.799,"endTime":2341.789,"body":"the fire crosses, the community"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2341.789,"endTime":2344.969,"body":"needs to be warned such that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2341.789,"endTime":2344.969,"body":"they can evacuate in time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2345.884,"endTime":2348.044,"body":"I think in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2345.884,"endTime":2348.044,"body":"buildings, it's easier because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2348.074,"endTime":2351.704,"body":"the mere existence of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2348.074,"endTime":2351.704,"body":"fire is already the trigger."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2351.764,"endTime":2354.524,"body":"And as soon as you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2351.764,"endTime":2354.524,"body":"fire in a building, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2354.524,"endTime":2355.724,"body":"would like to evacuate it,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2355.794,"endTime":2356.664,"body":"exactly right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2356.724,"endTime":2357.804,"body":"That's exactly right."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2357.914,"endTime":2359.354,"body":"but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2357.914,"endTime":2359.354,"body":"it, actually becomes more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2359.384,"endTime":2362.264,"body":"interesting when you go"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2359.384,"endTime":2362.264,"body":"to supertall buildings"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.474,"endTime":2364.574,"body":"where, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.474,"endTime":2364.574,"body":"cannot evacuate the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2364.574,"endTime":2365.924,"body":"building at the same moment."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2365.954,"endTime":2369.704,"body":"And in this case, such an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2365.954,"endTime":2369.704,"body":"approach like you've mentioned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2369.704,"endTime":2371.164,"body":"to assess the threats."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2371.884,"endTime":2374.624,"body":"Particular groups within the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2371.884,"endTime":2374.624,"body":"building, you could treat like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2375.064,"endTime":2377.494,"body":"each floor of a building as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2375.064,"endTime":2377.494,"body":"a separate community there"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2377.844,"endTime":2378.384,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2378.414,"endTime":2381.504,"body":"And they do that for phased,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2378.414,"endTime":2381.504,"body":"for phase evacuation, or,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2381.624,"endTime":2385.194,"body":"that's evacuate the fire,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2381.624,"endTime":2385.194,"body":"the area of fire origin, two"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2385.194,"endTime":2387.774,"body":"floors above and two floors"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2385.194,"endTime":2387.774,"body":"below or something like that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2388.334,"endTime":2389.024,"body":"that's great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2389.474,"endTime":2392.637,"body":"And, when developing this,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2389.474,"endTime":2392.637,"body":"types of models, it seems quite,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2393.057,"endTime":2397.857,"body":"let's say complex, you have to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2393.057,"endTime":2397.857,"body":"figure out why and when people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2397.917,"endTime":2401.157,"body":"make a decision to evacuate,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2397.917,"endTime":2401.157,"body":"will they leave immediately"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2401.157,"endTime":2405.327,"body":"or they need time to prepare"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2401.157,"endTime":2405.327,"body":"something and it's not a simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2405.327,"endTime":2408.297,"body":"as and building to take your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2405.327,"endTime":2408.297,"body":"bag or laptop and run away."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2408.337,"endTime":2409.497,"body":"It's your home, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2409.917,"endTime":2410.607,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2410.907,"endTime":2411.717,"body":"Make a choice."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2411.717,"endTime":2414.847,"body":"If they run away on a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2411.717,"endTime":2414.847,"body":"horse bicycle or by car or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2414.847,"endTime":2416.077,"body":"public transport, right."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2416.677,"endTime":2417.607,"body":"Where do they go?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2417.607,"endTime":2418.717,"body":"How do they get there?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2418.717,"endTime":2421.027,"body":"What did they do when they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2418.717,"endTime":2421.027,"body":"reached the destination?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2421.477,"endTime":2424.377,"body":"So that's  much more complex"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2421.477,"endTime":2424.377,"body":"than leave to the nearest"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2424.377,"endTime":2425.817,"body":"exit and just wait outside."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2425.847,"endTime":2426.147,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2426.837,"endTime":2427.827,"body":"100%."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2427.887,"endTime":2430.207,"body":"And I'm glad you asked"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2427.887,"endTime":2430.207,"body":"that because it's those,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2430.267,"endTime":2433.147,"body":"all of those decision"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2430.267,"endTime":2433.147,"body":"points in between, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2433.147,"endTime":2436.417,"body":"So the fire starts, or"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2433.147,"endTime":2436.417,"body":"maybe people are warned and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2436.417,"endTime":2438.727,"body":"then not only do they have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2436.417,"endTime":2438.727,"body":"to make a decision, they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2438.727,"endTime":2440.947,"body":"have to decide when they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2438.727,"endTime":2440.947,"body":"going to leave their home."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2441.367,"endTime":2444.367,"body":"They have to decide what mode"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2441.367,"endTime":2444.367,"body":"they will use to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2444.907,"endTime":2448.387,"body":"It might be that a household"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2444.907,"endTime":2448.387,"body":"uses multiple vehicles."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2448.657,"endTime":2452.677,"body":"It might be that the household"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2448.657,"endTime":2452.677,"body":"uses one car and then they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2452.707,"endTime":2455.857,"body":"tow their boat or they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2452.707,"endTime":2455.857,"body":"have a trailer or they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2455.857,"endTime":2457.117,"body":"using multiple vehicles."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2457.367,"endTime":2460.427,"body":"It might be that household"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2457.367,"endTime":2460.427,"body":"needs to use public transport."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2460.827,"endTime":2462.897,"body":"And then you choose"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2460.827,"endTime":2462.897,"body":"the route, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2462.897,"endTime":2464.997,"body":"If you have a personal"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2462.897,"endTime":2464.997,"body":"vehicle, you have to choose"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2465.147,"endTime":2466.527,"body":"where you're going to go."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2466.747,"endTime":2469.857,"body":"And it could be that, maybe"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2466.747,"endTime":2469.857,"body":"a route is blocked or it's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2469.857,"endTime":2473.317,"body":"congested or they use the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2469.857,"endTime":2473.317,"body":"one that's most familiar."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2473.317,"endTime":2475.627,"body":"And then finally, as you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2473.317,"endTime":2475.627,"body":"mentioned, they have to decide"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2475.627,"endTime":2477.947,"body":"where they go for safety."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2478.497,"endTime":2483.397,"body":"What's even more complicated"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2478.497,"endTime":2483.397,"body":"is an aside from modeling."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2483.397,"endTime":2484.177,"body":"All of that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2484.477,"endTime":2486.517,"body":"It's important to model"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2484.477,"endTime":2486.517,"body":"something that's called"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2486.517,"endTime":2487.837,"body":"intermediate trips."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2488.227,"endTime":2492.1,"body":"So people may, leave their"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2488.227,"endTime":2492.1,"body":"home for trips that are not"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2492.1,"endTime":2493.48,"body":"related to the evacuation."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2493.48,"endTime":2496.45,"body":"So what that means if they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2493.48,"endTime":2496.45,"body":"still in the fire affected"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2496.45,"endTime":2499.83,"body":"area, but maybe they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2496.45,"endTime":2499.83,"body":"picking up supplies from"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2499.83,"endTime":2502.16,"body":"the hardware store, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2499.83,"endTime":2502.16,"body":"they're going to pick up"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2502.16,"endTime":2505.55,"body":"their children from school,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2502.16,"endTime":2505.55,"body":"or maybe they're going to drop"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2505.55,"endTime":2508.81,"body":"off their livestock somewhere"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2505.55,"endTime":2508.81,"body":"or something like that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2509.08,"endTime":2513.73,"body":"And it's important to account"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2509.08,"endTime":2513.73,"body":"for those types of trips, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2513.73,"endTime":2517.12,"body":"there's been almost, no, I"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2513.73,"endTime":2517.12,"body":"think I've found a few studies"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2517.12,"endTime":2518.74,"body":"on that related to wildfires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2518.74,"endTime":2521.68,"body":"What are, what prompts people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2518.74,"endTime":2521.68,"body":"to take intermediate trips?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2521.89,"endTime":2523.39,"body":"How many will they take?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2523.39,"endTime":2525.46,"body":"Those types of things"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2523.39,"endTime":2525.46,"body":"are all very important."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2526.03,"endTime":2531.465,"body":"And then also above that is,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2526.03,"endTime":2531.465,"body":"modeling background traffic."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2531.915,"endTime":2535.455,"body":"So the people who are already"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2531.915,"endTime":2535.455,"body":"traveling through the area"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2535.455,"endTime":2538.755,"body":"in fire effected area before,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2535.455,"endTime":2538.755,"body":"you know, an evacuation is"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2538.755,"endTime":2542.145,"body":"called as well as shadow"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2538.755,"endTime":2542.145,"body":"evacuation, which is something"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2542.145,"endTime":2546.315,"body":"that I'm grappling with a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2542.145,"endTime":2546.315,"body":"team also funded by nest led"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2546.315,"endTime":2549.465,"body":"by the University of Florida,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2546.315,"endTime":2549.465,"body":"where we're looking at GPS"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2549.465,"endTime":2554.515,"body":"data to understand evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2549.465,"endTime":2554.515,"body":"trajectories from that same fire"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2554.515,"endTime":2556.795,"body":"in 2019 called the Kincade Fire."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2557.215,"endTime":2560.665,"body":"And we're trying to define all"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2557.215,"endTime":2560.665,"body":"of these different individuals."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2560.665,"endTime":2562.435,"body":"Are they evacuees?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2562.665,"endTime":2565.905,"body":"Or within the fire effected area"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2562.665,"endTime":2565.905,"body":"or are they shadow evacuees."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2565.985,"endTime":2569.165,"body":"That's a term used in hurricane"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2565.985,"endTime":2569.165,"body":"evacuation quite frequently,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2569.465,"endTime":2572.315,"body":"and that these are people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2569.465,"endTime":2572.315,"body":"outside of the evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2572.315,"endTime":2574.955,"body":"zones, but they evacuate anyway."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2575.375,"endTime":2578.745,"body":"And what that means is there's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2575.375,"endTime":2578.745,"body":"more potentially, people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2578.745,"endTime":2581.745,"body":"on the roads, more people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2578.745,"endTime":2581.745,"body":"in the traffic network that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2581.745,"endTime":2584.985,"body":"you should be taking into"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2581.745,"endTime":2584.985,"body":"account when you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2584.985,"endTime":2588.715,"body":"model all of these different,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2584.985,"endTime":2588.715,"body":"factors and scenarios."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2588.715,"endTime":2591.535,"body":"So it's complicated,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2588.715,"endTime":2591.535,"body":"but not impossible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2592.03,"endTime":2594.19,"body":"so in our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2592.03,"endTime":2594.19,"body":"building parallel, that would be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2594.19,"endTime":2595.45,"body":"the guys from the other floors"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2595.72,"endTime":2596.83,"body":"where There is no fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2596.83,"endTime":2597.22,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2597.64,"endTime":2599.68,"body":"They just chill out and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2597.64,"endTime":2599.68,"body":"block the staircase."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2600.28,"endTime":2603.16,"body":"Not very helpful, but,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2600.28,"endTime":2603.16,"body":"uh, kind of understandable"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2603.31,"endTime":2604.12,"body":"that they do that."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2604.765,"endTime":2605.305,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2605.395,"endTime":2607.765,"body":"I mean, yes they might"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2605.395,"endTime":2607.765,"body":"feel that they're at risk,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2607.795,"endTime":2610.065,"body":"even though they're not"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2607.795,"endTime":2610.065,"body":"on an evacuation floors,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2610.065,"endTime":2610.975,"body":"so they may decide to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2610.975,"endTime":2613.165,"body":"evacuate anyway,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2610.975,"endTime":2613.165,"body":"is that exactly?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2614.2,"endTime":2615.37,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2614.2,"endTime":2615.37,"body":"to develop these models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2615.51,"endTime":2618.13,"body":"What kind of data you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2615.51,"endTime":2618.13,"body":"need to develop that?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2618.16,"endTime":2620.82,"body":"Because you've mentioned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2618.16,"endTime":2620.82,"body":"already, GPS data, you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2620.82,"endTime":2623.84,"body":"mentioned the, questionnaires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2620.82,"endTime":2623.84,"body":"that  you give to people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2623.84,"endTime":2626.23,"body":"and the open-end questions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2623.84,"endTime":2626.23,"body":"that are probably the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2626.23,"endTime":2627.46,"body":"most valuable of them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2627.77,"endTime":2630.48,"body":"So what else is in your toolbox"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2627.77,"endTime":2630.48,"body":"to calibrate these models?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2630.685,"endTime":2631.165,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2631.195,"endTime":2633.265,"body":"So definitely the surveys."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2633.295,"endTime":2636.565,"body":"I also think that interviews"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2633.295,"endTime":2636.565,"body":"are also important to do"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2636.565,"endTime":2639.085,"body":"with surveys, something I"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2636.565,"endTime":2639.085,"body":"haven't had a chance to do"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2639.085,"endTime":2642.785,"body":"as much, to then provide a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2639.085,"endTime":2642.785,"body":"little bit more richness in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2642.785,"endTime":2644.765,"body":"the why's the, how the why."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2645.065,"endTime":2645.395,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2645.395,"endTime":2649.405,"body":"We ask people to answer multiple"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2645.395,"endTime":2649.405,"body":"choice, questions, and surveys,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2649.705,"endTime":2653.715,"body":"and don't provide much in the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2649.705,"endTime":2653.715,"body":"way of open ended questions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2654.055,"endTime":2657.325,"body":"And as you mentioned, surveys"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2654.055,"endTime":2657.325,"body":"and interviews are individual"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2657.325,"endTime":2661.015,"body":"or household based data, which"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2657.325,"endTime":2661.015,"body":"is good because a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2661.015,"endTime":2666.715,"body":"models were trying to simulate"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2661.015,"endTime":2666.715,"body":"decision-making at that level."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2666.965,"endTime":2669.905,"body":"The GPS data that I"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2666.965,"endTime":2669.905,"body":"mentioned provides more at an"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2669.935,"endTime":2675.515,"body":"aggregate level, just trends,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2669.935,"endTime":2675.515,"body":"right in evacuation rates"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2675.795,"endTime":2677.835,"body":"evacuation departure times."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2677.835,"endTime":2681.885,"body":"So that distribution curve"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2677.835,"endTime":2681.885,"body":"or the S curve that people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2682.155,"endTime":2684.725,"body":"talk about in hurricanes,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2682.155,"endTime":2684.725,"body":"which is well that's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2684.725,"endTime":2686.135,"body":"actually for the evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2686.615,"endTime":2687.605,"body":"numbers too."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2687.605,"endTime":2690.755,"body":"But for departure time, we"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2687.605,"endTime":2690.755,"body":"want to be able to understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2690.785,"endTime":2693.545,"body":"over a certain period"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2690.785,"endTime":2693.545,"body":"of time, when do people"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2693.545,"endTime":2695.075,"body":"enter the traffic network?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2695.077,"endTime":2697.897,"body":"And then route choice and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2695.077,"endTime":2697.897,"body":"destination choice is something"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2697.897,"endTime":2700.177,"body":"else we can get from GPS data."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2700.207,"endTime":2701.977,"body":"But again, that's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2700.207,"endTime":2701.977,"body":"an aggregate level."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2701.977,"endTime":2702.907,"body":"We don't understand."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2702.907,"endTime":2703.267,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2703.537,"endTime":2707.357,"body":"Maybe this unit household,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2703.537,"endTime":2707.357,"body":"we know everything about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2707.357,"endTime":2709.927,"body":"them because we don't we know"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2707.357,"endTime":2709.927,"body":"maybe where they're initially"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2709.927,"endTime":2711.157,"body":"located and where they go."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2711.787,"endTime":2715.887,"body":"Other interesting data"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2711.787,"endTime":2715.887,"body":"could be from social media."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2716.367,"endTime":2720.237,"body":"And so I'm, I know of some,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2716.367,"endTime":2720.237,"body":"different studies that have"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2720.237,"endTime":2725.075,"body":"looked at Tweets or Facebook"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2720.237,"endTime":2725.075,"body":"to try to not only understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2725.105,"endTime":2729.535,"body":"geo location and as people are"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2725.105,"endTime":2729.535,"body":"tweeting or using Facebook to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2729.535,"endTime":2732.865,"body":"understand those trajectories,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2729.535,"endTime":2732.865,"body":"that GPS data can give us, but"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2732.865,"endTime":2736.825,"body":"even extracting information"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2732.865,"endTime":2736.825,"body":"from the tweet, see if we can"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2736.825,"endTime":2739.015,"body":"get information about what they"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2736.825,"endTime":2739.015,"body":"were thinking and what they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2739.015,"endTime":2740.605,"body":"doing related to evacuation."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2740.605,"endTime":2741.925,"body":"That's quite difficult."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2742.005,"endTime":2744.795,"body":"And speaking with the team at"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2742.005,"endTime":2744.795,"body":"university of Maryland, about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2745.035,"endTime":2748.105,"body":"some interesting work they're"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2745.035,"endTime":2748.105,"body":"doing with Twitter data."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2748.129,"endTime":2750.742,"body":"And then lastly, well,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2748.129,"endTime":2750.742,"body":"not lastly, one of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2750.742,"endTime":2754.669,"body":"others is VR and AR, which"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2750.742,"endTime":2754.669,"body":"I'm really interested in."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2754.829,"endTime":2757.969,"body":"We've done that a lot for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2754.829,"endTime":2757.969,"body":"buildings as I'm sure you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2757.969,"endTime":2761.419,"body":"know, and a lot of work at"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2757.969,"endTime":2761.419,"body":"Lund university and University"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2761.419,"endTime":2764.629,"body":"of Canterbury and the work at"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2761.419,"endTime":2764.629,"body":"Massey that Rino's doing and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2765.059,"endTime":2769.69,"body":"to understand route choice or"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2765.059,"endTime":2769.69,"body":"evacuation time or exit choice."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2769.97,"endTime":2773.62,"body":"Max Kindateder also  NRC,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2769.97,"endTime":2773.62,"body":"Canada, but we haven't done"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2773.62,"endTime":2775.36,"body":"this kind of work for wildfires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2775.36,"endTime":2777.73,"body":"So they use VR and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2775.36,"endTime":2777.73,"body":"AR for training."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2778.23,"endTime":2780.87,"body":"Even wildland fire"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2778.23,"endTime":2780.87,"body":"firefighters, which I've"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2780.87,"endTime":2783.62,"body":"seen some of this, the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2780.87,"endTime":2783.62,"body":"simulations, they're amazing."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2783.577,"endTime":2786.997,"body":"but we're not using it yet as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2783.577,"endTime":2786.997,"body":"much, or if at all, to collect"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2786.997,"endTime":2788.497,"body":"data on what people will do."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2788.497,"endTime":2791.407,"body":"So I'm very interested in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2788.497,"endTime":2791.407,"body":"digging into that and working"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2791.407,"endTime":2793.927,"body":"with Rino and others too,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2791.407,"endTime":2793.927,"body":"because the interesting"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2793.927,"endTime":2797.107,"body":"piece about that is you"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2793.927,"endTime":2797.107,"body":"can collect individual"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2797.137,"endTime":2799.347,"body":"decision-making data, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2799.347,"endTime":2802.497,"body":"Immersing people in a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2799.347,"endTime":2802.497,"body":"particular scenario, and then"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2802.497,"endTime":2805.227,"body":"talking to them afterwards and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2802.497,"endTime":2805.227,"body":"asking why did you do this?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2805.227,"endTime":2806.127,"body":"And why did you do that?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2806.487,"endTime":2809.477,"body":"A lot of the work"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2806.487,"endTime":2809.477,"body":"that's coming out of VR."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2809.477,"endTime":2812.442,"body":"It's also testing how real"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2809.477,"endTime":2812.442,"body":"people feel the scenario"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2812.442,"endTime":2815.772,"body":"is to get a sense of, okay."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2815.872,"endTime":2819.732,"body":"This is a simulation we"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2815.872,"endTime":2819.732,"body":"need to maybe treat this."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2819.725,"endTime":2823.615,"body":"There's a caveat associated"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2819.725,"endTime":2823.615,"body":"with this data, but also,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2823.665,"endTime":2826.935,"body":"this simulations are becoming"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2823.665,"endTime":2826.935,"body":"more and more realistic."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2827.255,"endTime":2829.945,"body":"And I think are very"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2827.255,"endTime":2829.945,"body":"useful to collect data, for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2829.945,"endTime":2831.805,"body":"use in simulation tools."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2832.305,"endTime":2833.495,"body":"And what would be the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2833.525,"endTime":2834.905,"body":"outcome of your modeling?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2834.935,"endTime":2837.845,"body":"Because when I do my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2834.935,"endTime":2837.845,"body":"evacuation modeling, my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2837.875,"endTime":2839.015,"body":"outcome is very simple."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2839.015,"endTime":2841.535,"body":"That's my available"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2839.015,"endTime":2841.535,"body":"safe evacuation time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2841.535,"endTime":2844.325,"body":"And that's pretty much the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2841.535,"endTime":2844.325,"body":"one thing that I'm looking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2844.325,"endTime":2848.885,"body":"for in case of modeling these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2844.325,"endTime":2848.885,"body":"complex behaviors, you are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2848.885,"endTime":2852.485,"body":"more looking into like outlier"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2848.885,"endTime":2852.485,"body":"scenarios or you're seeking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2852.485,"endTime":2855.665,"body":"like probabilities, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2852.485,"endTime":2855.665,"body":"probably density functions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2855.965,"endTime":2856.615,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2856.625,"endTime":2858.125,"body":"I'm looking for probabilities."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2858.125,"endTime":2861.635,"body":"I'm looking to understand"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2858.125,"endTime":2861.635,"body":"under which types of scenarios,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2861.745,"endTime":2866.675,"body":", people are more likely to do"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2861.745,"endTime":2866.675,"body":"X, Y, and Z,  so that we can"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2867.035,"endTime":2871.965,"body":"actually assign an appropriate"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2867.035,"endTime":2871.965,"body":"evacuation time to a community"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2871.995,"endTime":2876.375,"body":"or assign at least a more"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2871.995,"endTime":2876.375,"body":"realistic range of times."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2876.825,"endTime":2880.045,"body":"So, yes we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2876.825,"endTime":2880.045,"body":"be able to predict the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2880.045,"endTime":2884.695,"body":"likelihood that someone will"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2880.045,"endTime":2884.695,"body":"evacuate and even the time"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2884.755,"endTime":2886.555,"body":"at which they will evacuate."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2886.655,"endTime":2891.045,"body":"Rino has a model that he's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2886.655,"endTime":2891.045,"body":"developed from our Chimney"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2891.045,"endTime":2895.415,"body":"Tops Two data that tries to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2891.045,"endTime":2895.415,"body":"predict the likelihood that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2895.415,"endTime":2899.875,"body":"people are in a particular"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2895.415,"endTime":2899.875,"body":"state normal state investigating"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2899.875,"endTime":2902.815,"body":"state, vigilant state,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2899.875,"endTime":2902.815,"body":"those and evacuating state."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2903.155,"endTime":2906.995,"body":"But yes, it's the probabilities"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2903.155,"endTime":2906.995,"body":"associated with all of this."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2907.325,"endTime":2909.335,"body":"And the goal is that we can."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2909.835,"endTime":2913.405,"body":"We don't expect the answer from"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2909.835,"endTime":2913.405,"body":"these things we want to range."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2913.435,"endTime":2916.579,"body":"And then we can start to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2913.435,"endTime":2916.579,"body":"identify, as I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2916.629,"endTime":2920.379,"body":"the kind of ASET - RSET,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2916.629,"endTime":2920.379,"body":"those trigger buffers."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2920.769,"endTime":2923.689,"body":"We want to be able to identify"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2920.769,"endTime":2923.689,"body":"and use these models, maybe"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2923.689,"endTime":2926.449,"body":"in a best case scenario to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2923.689,"endTime":2926.449,"body":"have to identify some of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2926.779,"endTime":2930.319,"body":"best routes that people should"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2926.779,"endTime":2930.319,"body":"choose for evacuation planning."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2930.859,"endTime":2933.679,"body":"We want to be able to make"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2930.859,"endTime":2933.679,"body":"decisions on when people should"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2933.679,"endTime":2936.599,"body":"evacuate, both during an event"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2933.679,"endTime":2936.599,"body":"and thinking about that for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2936.599,"endTime":2941.519,"body":"planning purposes, we want to be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2936.599,"endTime":2941.519,"body":"able to test the plan and put it"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2941.519,"endTime":2943.379,"body":"under some worst case scenarios."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2943.379,"endTime":2946.589,"body":"But again, these are all,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2943.379,"endTime":2946.589,"body":"our estimates from our"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2946.589,"endTime":2948.689,"body":"modeling we're going to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2946.589,"endTime":2948.689,"body":"be able to predict the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2948.689,"endTime":2950.999,"body":"likelihood, that someone's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2948.689,"endTime":2950.999,"body":"going to be able to evacuate."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2951.549,"endTime":2953.469,"body":"So in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2951.549,"endTime":2953.469,"body":"the end, if the model works"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2953.469,"endTime":2956.419,"body":"and, the outcome of modeling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2953.469,"endTime":2956.419,"body":"would be essentially the most"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2956.419,"endTime":2960.499,"body":"effective strategy to get this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2956.419,"endTime":2960.499,"body":"population out of this place in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2960.499,"endTime":2962.689,"body":"the, let's say most optimal way,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2962.904,"endTime":2963.474,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2963.474,"endTime":2963.744,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2964.339,"endTime":2965.239,"body":"circumstances"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2965.574,"endTime":2967.944,"body":"so"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2965.574,"endTime":2967.944,"body":"that's kind of two things."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2967.944,"endTime":2971.274,"body":"So we can use the models"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2967.944,"endTime":2971.274,"body":"to predict some of these"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2971.274,"endTime":2974.634,"body":"optimal scenarios and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2971.274,"endTime":2974.634,"body":"use that for planning."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2975.094,"endTime":2977.494,"body":"So if I was to tell"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2975.094,"endTime":2977.494,"body":"you, what is your most"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2977.494,"endTime":2979.264,"body":"optimal route here it is."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2979.28,"endTime":2982.687,"body":"But when we're talking about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2979.28,"endTime":2982.687,"body":"actually making decisions during"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2982.687,"endTime":2986.767,"body":"the event, we don't want to be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2982.687,"endTime":2986.767,"body":"simulating optimal behavior."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2986.767,"endTime":2989.167,"body":"We want to be simulating"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2986.767,"endTime":2989.167,"body":"actual behavior."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2989.527,"endTime":2993.307,"body":"And that's when we try to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2989.527,"endTime":2993.307,"body":"put in an understanding of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2993.307,"endTime":2997.807,"body":"the fire scenario or a range,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2993.307,"endTime":2997.807,"body":"try to get realistic as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2997.807,"endTime":3002.247,"body":"possible evacuation timing"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":2997.807,"endTime":3002.247,"body":"so that we know when to warn."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3002.517,"endTime":3003.957,"body":"And so I think the optimum."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3004.457,"endTime":3007.047,"body":"It's very good for planning,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3004.457,"endTime":3007.047,"body":"but some of these worst"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3007.047,"endTime":3010.797,"body":"case scenarios are all also"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3007.047,"endTime":3010.797,"body":"very important to stress the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3010.797,"endTime":3014.337,"body":"evacuation plan to come up with"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3010.797,"endTime":3014.337,"body":"traffic management solutions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3014.607,"endTime":3016.107,"body":"Ask what if scenarios?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3016.377,"endTime":3018.357,"body":"What if people all go"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3016.377,"endTime":3018.357,"body":"to the familiar route?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3018.507,"endTime":3019.767,"body":"What are we going to do?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3020.007,"endTime":3020.247,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3020.247,"endTime":3022.827,"body":"So not only planning for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3020.247,"endTime":3022.827,"body":"optimal, but planning for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3022.827,"endTime":3026.607,"body":"some of the worst case so"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3022.827,"endTime":3026.607,"body":"that we're ready to know."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3026.607,"endTime":3027.057,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3027.657,"endTime":3029.397,"body":"Here's some of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3027.657,"endTime":3029.397,"body":"solutions, here's what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3029.397,"endTime":3030.537,"body":"we're going to put in place."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3030.777,"endTime":3033.657,"body":"If some of these worst"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3030.777,"endTime":3033.657,"body":"case scenarios occur."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3033.717,"endTime":3036.267,"body":"And then of course you need"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3033.717,"endTime":3036.267,"body":"to make decisions during an"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3036.267,"endTime":3039.657,"body":"evacuation about one to warn"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3036.267,"endTime":3039.657,"body":"and that is based on actual"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3039.657,"endTime":3043.527,"body":"or predicted as close as we"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3039.657,"endTime":3043.527,"body":"can get from these models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3043.782,"endTime":3045.372,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3043.782,"endTime":3045.372,"body":"I've asked you that because,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3045.412,"endTime":3048.712,"body":"I'm wondering if one day"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3045.412,"endTime":3048.712,"body":"we could use this approach"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3048.712,"endTime":3051.502,"body":"in buildings and if we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3048.712,"endTime":3051.502,"body":"did, how could we use it?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3052.072,"endTime":3056.602,"body":"And I think it's not really very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3052.072,"endTime":3056.602,"body":"interesting to use it, to get my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3056.632,"endTime":3060.992,"body":"ASET time more precise, but it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3056.632,"endTime":3060.992,"body":"very interesting to actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3060.992,"endTime":3064.232,"body":"identify the critical scenarios"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3060.992,"endTime":3064.232,"body":"in which something very bad"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3064.232,"endTime":3067.682,"body":"can happen and then proactively"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3064.232,"endTime":3067.682,"body":"prevent these scenarios"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3067.712,"endTime":3070.382,"body":"because this is how you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3067.712,"endTime":3070.382,"body":"could potentially save lives."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3070.907,"endTime":3071.507,"body":"That's right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3071.917,"endTime":3073.117,"body":"Stress, the plan."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3073.247,"endTime":3073.957,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3073.957,"endTime":3079.087,"body":"And Steve Gwynne and I wrote,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3073.957,"endTime":3079.087,"body":"for,  the fire magazine here in"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3079.087,"endTime":3083.317,"body":"Australia to try to think about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3079.087,"endTime":3083.317,"body":"some of the worst case scenarios"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3083.317,"endTime":3085.717,"body":"that could happen in wildfires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3085.947,"endTime":3090.077,"body":"But what we did was we"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3085.947,"endTime":3090.077,"body":"used the  Handbook, Daniel"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3090.077,"endTime":3093.782,"body":"Nillson and Rita's chapter on"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3090.077,"endTime":3093.782,"body":"developing occupants scenarios."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3094.142,"endTime":3097.872,"body":"And so we were using what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3094.142,"endTime":3097.872,"body":"people are thinking about as"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3097.872,"endTime":3100.602,"body":"far as developing occupants"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3097.872,"endTime":3100.602,"body":"scenarios for buildings,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3100.842,"endTime":3104.712,"body":"and then expanding that for"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3100.842,"endTime":3104.712,"body":"fire events and communities."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3104.712,"endTime":3107.652,"body":"And that's just another"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3104.712,"endTime":3107.652,"body":"example of how our knowledge"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3107.652,"endTime":3111.522,"body":"and fire protection can be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3107.652,"endTime":3111.522,"body":"translated into the WUI space."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3112.022,"endTime":3113.372,"body":"That's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3113.372,"endTime":3116.022,"body":"And that's what I try to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3113.372,"endTime":3116.022,"body":"do here with this podcast,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3116.122,"endTime":3120.092,"body":"exposing building engineers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3116.122,"endTime":3120.092,"body":"to wildfire science and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3120.092,"endTime":3122.852,"body":"evacuation scientists to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3120.092,"endTime":3122.852,"body":"principles of combustion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3122.852,"endTime":3124.712,"body":"And I think it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3124.912,"endTime":3127.802,"body":"creates a better"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3124.912,"endTime":3127.802,"body":"environment overall."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3128.222,"endTime":3130.782,"body":"Erica, um, I'm so thankful"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3128.222,"endTime":3130.782,"body":"for this interview."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3130.812,"endTime":3131.802,"body":"We're going to wrap up."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3132.132,"endTime":3132.672,"body":"I see."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3132.672,"endTime":3137.522,"body":"We can keep talking for hours"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3132.672,"endTime":3137.522,"body":"about this, but it's really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3137.572,"endTime":3139.102,"body":"it's really a huge, huge topic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3139.102,"endTime":3142.812,"body":"We haven't even touched"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3139.102,"endTime":3142.812,"body":"the PADM models and some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3142.812,"endTime":3143.982,"body":"more in depth things,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3144.032,"endTime":3146.422,"body":"Well, to"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3144.032,"endTime":3146.422,"body":"be fair, we did in that, when"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3146.432,"endTime":3148.622,"body":"you talk about risk perception"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3146.432,"endTime":3148.622,"body":"and threat perception, that's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3148.622,"endTime":3152.642,"body":"like the big foundation of"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3148.622,"endTime":3152.642,"body":"the PADM, but maybe we'll"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3152.672,"endTime":3154.652,"body":"just have me back in a"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3152.672,"endTime":3154.652,"body":"year and we'll talk about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3155.097,"endTime":3156.687,"body":"Now"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3155.097,"endTime":3156.687,"body":"maybe in, maybe in a month,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3157.412,"endTime":3158.042,"body":"sounds good."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3158.437,"endTime":3159.307,"body":"W we'll see."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3159.307,"endTime":3159.787,"body":"We'll see."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3159.837,"endTime":3160.677,"body":"So thank you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3160.707,"endTime":3162.177,"body":"Thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3160.707,"endTime":3162.177,"body":"for coming here and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3162.177,"endTime":3163.677,"body":"sharing your experiences."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3163.707,"endTime":3165.147,"body":"What are the next steps for you?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3165.147,"endTime":3168.267,"body":"So now you're in Australia,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3165.147,"endTime":3168.267,"body":"you're probably focusing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3168.267,"endTime":3169.827,"body":"on bushfires preparedness."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3170.187,"endTime":3172.347,"body":"Tell me what are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3170.187,"endTime":3172.347,"body":"your nearest plans?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3173.247,"endTime":3174.897,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3173.247,"endTime":3174.897,"body":"that's thanks for asking."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3174.897,"endTime":3179.727,"body":"So we're hoping to continue"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3174.897,"endTime":3179.727,"body":"the modeling work that that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3179.727,"endTime":3183.057,"body":"we're doing with Enrico and"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3179.727,"endTime":3183.057,"body":"Steve Gwynne and Max and others"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3183.377,"endTime":3185.697,"body":"NFPA foundation, Guillermo."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3186.147,"endTime":3189.357,"body":"And so I want to continue"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3186.147,"endTime":3189.357,"body":"this, the simulation route,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3189.357,"endTime":3192.297,"body":"but I also want to very much"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3189.357,"endTime":3192.297,"body":"focus on the data collection."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3192.777,"endTime":3197.847,"body":"And so I have a new PhD"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3192.777,"endTime":3197.847,"body":"opening, a scholarship where."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3198.542,"endTime":3201.622,"body":"That candidate will be"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3198.542,"endTime":3201.622,"body":"collecting data via surveys,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3201.622,"endTime":3205.852,"body":"interviews, NGPs data, perhaps"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3201.622,"endTime":3205.852,"body":"the hope and trying to kind"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3205.852,"endTime":3209.242,"body":"of use different methods"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3205.852,"endTime":3209.242,"body":"for the same fire or the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3209.242,"endTime":3212.872,"body":"same set of fires, to start"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3209.242,"endTime":3212.872,"body":"filling in the gaps of,  that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3212.872,"endTime":3214.282,"body":"evacuation timeline, right?"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3214.282,"endTime":3215.572,"body":"All of those decisions."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3215.842,"endTime":3218.912,"body":"I'm very interested in getting"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3215.842,"endTime":3218.912,"body":"data obtaining additional"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3218.912,"endTime":3221.912,"body":"data on a lot of those"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3218.912,"endTime":3221.912,"body":"decisions along the timeline."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3222.272,"endTime":3226.142,"body":"And then we can feed those"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3222.272,"endTime":3226.142,"body":"models into WUInity and others."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3226.552,"endTime":3230.692,"body":"So primarily data collection,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3226.552,"endTime":3230.692,"body":"I'm really interested in kind"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3230.692,"endTime":3234.222,"body":"of building a great team here"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3230.692,"endTime":3234.222,"body":"and working on evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3234.222,"endTime":3235.452,"body":"related to bushfires."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3235.482,"endTime":3237.492,"body":"I'm also interested"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3235.482,"endTime":3237.492,"body":"in floods as well."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3237.492,"endTime":3238.782,"body":"So there's a lot of."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3238.825,"endTime":3242.065,"body":"overlap of people's"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3238.825,"endTime":3242.065,"body":"decision-making in different"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3242.065,"endTime":3247.045,"body":"types of disasters and looking"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3242.065,"endTime":3247.045,"body":"to use interesting data"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3247.045,"endTime":3249.715,"body":"collection techniques that"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3247.045,"endTime":3249.715,"body":"we haven't used in the past,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3249.925,"endTime":3255.715,"body":"like GPS, like, AR VR, like"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3249.925,"endTime":3255.715,"body":"social media data and yeah."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3255.745,"endTime":3259.045,"body":"Trying to make sense of what"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3255.745,"endTime":3259.045,"body":"people do in these scenarios."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3259.075,"endTime":3262.255,"body":"Just not just that evacuation"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3259.075,"endTime":3262.255,"body":"decision, but all of the"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3262.255,"endTime":3263.545,"body":"rest of those decisions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3263.82,"endTime":3266.47,"body":"That, that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3263.82,"endTime":3266.47,"body":"sounds like an exciting plan"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3266.52,"endTime":3268.21,"body":"for many years of research."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3268.255,"endTime":3268.645,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3268.645,"endTime":3268.975,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3268.975,"endTime":3270.145,"body":"There's a lot to do."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3270.16,"endTime":3271.39,"body":"there's a lot to back."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3271.42,"endTime":3274.81,"body":"Well, I wish you all the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3271.42,"endTime":3274.81,"body":"best in solving this and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3274.84,"endTime":3276.49,"body":"creating even better models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3276.64,"endTime":3279.75,"body":"I really appreciate , that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3276.64,"endTime":3279.75,"body":"the models like WUInity"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3279.75,"endTime":3282.56,"body":"are open source and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3279.75,"endTime":3282.56,"body":"available to everyone."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3282.95,"endTime":3283.36,"body":"Freeware."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3283.385,"endTime":3283.665,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3283.745,"endTime":3284.155,"body":"Freeware."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3284.255,"endTime":3284.945,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3284.945,"endTime":3288.445,"body":"And then certainly something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3284.945,"endTime":3288.445,"body":"to appreciate and thank"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3288.445,"endTime":3290.845,"body":"you for  sharing your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3288.445,"endTime":3290.845,"body":"thoughts in, in the podcast."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3291.28,"endTime":3292.6,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3291.28,"endTime":3292.6,"body":"thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3292.6,"endTime":3293.95,"body":"This is really fun."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3293.95,"endTime":3297.43,"body":"And I enjoy talking to you about"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3293.95,"endTime":3297.43,"body":"a topic I'm very passionate"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3297.43,"endTime":3300.67,"body":"about and thank you for all"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3297.43,"endTime":3300.67,"body":"your great questions and giving"},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3300.67,"endTime":3302.18,"body":"this topic some air time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3302.805,"endTime":3304.725,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3302.805,"endTime":3304.725,"body":"I'm very happy as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3304.735,"endTime":3308.595,"body":"I'll definitely see you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3304.735,"endTime":3308.595,"body":"here in sooner than later."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3308.82,"endTime":3309.87,"body":"Sounds good."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3310.305,"endTime":3311.205,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3311.235,"endTime":3311.885,"body":"See around."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3312.51,"endTime":3312.84,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Erica Kuligowski","startTime":3312.87,"endTime":3313.41,"body":"Bye."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3314.704,"endTime":3315.514,"body":"And that's it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3315.964,"endTime":3317.734,"body":"When I'm doing interviews"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3315.964,"endTime":3317.734,"body":"with people who are as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3317.734,"endTime":3320.914,"body":"passionate as Erica about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3317.734,"endTime":3320.914,"body":"their research, it's really,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3320.914,"endTime":3324.154,"body":"really tough to stop discussing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3320.914,"endTime":3324.154,"body":"the subject of matter."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3324.544,"endTime":3325.954,"body":"And I'm really happy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3325.954,"endTime":3327.124,"body":"I had her in the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3327.124,"endTime":3332.014,"body":"I'm really happy, she shared her"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3327.124,"endTime":3332.014,"body":"enthusiasm with all of you, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3332.014,"endTime":3335.704,"body":"I hope you picked up something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3332.014,"endTime":3335.704,"body":"useful from the discussion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3335.704,"endTime":3337.054,"body":"and for your own practice."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3337.744,"endTime":3342.84,"body":"I hope you noticed how she d"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3337.744,"endTime":3342.84,"body":"iscussed these aspects that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3342.87,"endTime":3344.37,"body":"go into modeling behaviors."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3344.88,"endTime":3349.504,"body":"And what I'm really happy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3344.88,"endTime":3349.504,"body":"about is that she explained how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3349.504,"endTime":3353.284,"body":"this behavior modeling can be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3349.504,"endTime":3353.284,"body":"used in practice in terms of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3353.794,"endTime":3355.444,"body":"analyzing the threat levels."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3356.249,"endTime":3362.189,"body":"Preparing scenarios, creating"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3356.249,"endTime":3362.189,"body":"some boundary values after"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3362.189,"endTime":3366.269,"body":"breaching witch and evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3362.189,"endTime":3366.269,"body":"must be performed of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3366.269,"endTime":3369.575,"body":"community, for example, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3366.269,"endTime":3369.575,"body":"I'm sure that plenty of this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3369.575,"endTime":3373.062,"body":"can be also used in modeling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3369.575,"endTime":3373.062,"body":"evacuation in buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3373.071,"endTime":3373.881,"body":"Hopefully one day."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3374.566,"endTime":3378.316,"body":"As I mentioned in the intro"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3374.566,"endTime":3378.316,"body":"able to do this paradigm shifted"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3378.316,"endTime":3383.089,"body":"into behavior, fueled evacuation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3378.316,"endTime":3383.089,"body":"modeling rather than just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3383.539,"endTime":3385.729,"body":"movement-based agents models."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3385.836,"endTime":3387.696,"body":"That would be a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3385.836,"endTime":3387.696,"body":"great, great future."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3387.696,"endTime":3389.256,"body":"And I'm looking forward to that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3390.664,"endTime":3393.174,"body":"For the end, some other"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3390.664,"endTime":3393.174,"body":"news from the podcast we're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3393.174,"endTime":3396.144,"body":"approaching episode 20, and it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3393.174,"endTime":3396.144,"body":"going to be a great episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3396.664,"endTime":3400.554,"body":"I have a world-class scientist"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3396.664,"endTime":3400.554,"body":"again with me, and we're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3400.554,"endTime":3402.834,"body":"going to discuss the future"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3400.554,"endTime":3402.834,"body":"of fire safety engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3402.954,"endTime":3405.564,"body":"So that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3402.954,"endTime":3405.564,"body":"really, really interesting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3406.314,"endTime":3409.494,"body":"I have also just launched a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3406.314,"endTime":3409.494,"body":"new website for the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3410.094,"endTime":3412.494,"body":"You might want to check this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3410.094,"endTime":3412.494,"body":"out if you have not seen it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3412.704,"endTime":3419.639,"body":"Uh, www.firescienceshow.com and,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3412.704,"endTime":3419.639,"body":"you can pop comments on there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3419.639,"endTime":3421.319,"body":"You can obviously listen."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3421.339,"endTime":3425.039,"body":"All the episodes, read the show"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3421.339,"endTime":3425.039,"body":"notes, read the transcripts."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3425.579,"endTime":3429.189,"body":"Hopefully it's useful for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3425.579,"endTime":3429.189,"body":"all of you, you can also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3429.189,"endTime":3430.179,"body":"sign to the newsletter."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3430.209,"endTime":3433.209,"body":"Um, I'm gonna try to do a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3430.209,"endTime":3433.209,"body":"little bit better job with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3433.629,"endTime":3435.099,"body":"maintaining the newsletter."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3435.519,"endTime":3438.479,"body":"So probably that's something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3435.519,"endTime":3438.479,"body":", you should or could do."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3438.969,"endTime":3439.869,"body":", I will appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3441.099,"endTime":3445.229,"body":"And yeah, for the  as usual,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3441.099,"endTime":3445.229,"body":"please share the knowledge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3445.229,"endTime":3447.059,"body":"about the podcast with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3445.229,"endTime":3447.059,"body":"your friends, with your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3447.059,"endTime":3449.879,"body":"colleagues in your officers,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3447.059,"endTime":3449.879,"body":"with other professionals,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3449.879,"endTime":3452.849,"body":"you know, that may benefit"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3449.879,"endTime":3452.849,"body":"from listening to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3452.999,"endTime":3456.119,"body":"interesting discussions we're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3452.999,"endTime":3456.119,"body":"having here and all of you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3456.479,"endTime":3459.689,"body":"Thank you so much for tuning"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3456.479,"endTime":3459.689,"body":"in and see you next Wednesday."}]}