{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.15,"endTime":1.26,"body":"Hello, and welcome to Fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.26,"endTime":3.15,"body":"Science Show Episode 21."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3.42,"endTime":4.35,"body":"Great to have you here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4.35,"endTime":7.41,"body":"As always, before we jump"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":4.35,"endTime":7.41,"body":"to the episode, I have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":7.41,"endTime":8.82,"body":"some housekeeping items."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":9.45,"endTime":13.16,"body":"I recently observed a spike of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":9.45,"endTime":13.16,"body":"new listeners to the podcast"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":13.17,"endTime":15.42,"body":"with them, recent episodes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.42,"endTime":16.86,"body":"And I welcome you all."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":16.86,"endTime":19.47,"body":"I hope you have a great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":16.86,"endTime":19.47,"body":"experience staying with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":19.47,"endTime":20.46,"body":"the fire science show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":20.491,"endTime":21.571,"body":"On the site .Of."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":21.571,"endTime":22.261,"body":".The .Fire science,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":22.761,"endTime":24.591,"body":"the firescienceshow.com."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":25.071,"endTime":30.171,"body":"I've started up selecting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":25.071,"endTime":30.171,"body":"the episodes to assert"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":30.171,"endTime":31.671,"body":"them themes of the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":32.061,"endTime":36.441,"body":"So that allows you explore"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":32.061,"endTime":36.441,"body":"and experience the podcast"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":36.441,"endTime":38.241,"body":"in a more organized way."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.721,"endTime":41.451,"body":"And if you just joined"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.721,"endTime":41.451,"body":"us now, there's 20 great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":41.451,"endTime":43.851,"body":"episodes waiting for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":41.451,"endTime":43.851,"body":"you to be discovered."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":43.851,"endTime":46.221,"body":"So I hope that's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":43.851,"endTime":46.221,"body":"great experience for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":46.221,"endTime":47.661,"body":"you, and I hope you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":48.451,"endTime":52.351,"body":"Enjoy that I would also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":48.451,"endTime":52.351,"body":"like to thank everyone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.351,"endTime":56.311,"body":"who's supporting the podcast"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.351,"endTime":56.311,"body":"through the donations to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":56.311,"endTime":58.381,"body":"buy me coffee on my webpage."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":58.411,"endTime":60.781,"body":"I really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":58.411,"endTime":60.781,"body":"this donations."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":60.841,"endTime":64.861,"body":"They allow me to maintain the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":60.841,"endTime":64.861,"body":"high quality of the podcast"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":64.861,"endTime":68.971,"body":"and pay for all the technical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":64.861,"endTime":68.971,"body":"aspects of doing this in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":68.971,"endTime":70.381,"body":"an slightly easier way."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.931,"endTime":74.321,"body":"I appreciate your donations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.931,"endTime":74.321,"body":"and, yeah, it helps me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":75.071,"endTime":75.971,"body":"more than you think."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":76.031,"endTime":77.231,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":77.531,"endTime":82.061,"body":"So for the episode today, Last"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":77.531,"endTime":82.061,"body":"week, I've hosted professor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":82.061,"endTime":86.351,"body":"Brian Meacham, who said so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":82.061,"endTime":86.351,"body":"much profound things about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.35,"endTime":89.544,"body":"the shape of fire safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.35,"endTime":89.544,"body":"engineering, and how can we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":89.544,"endTime":90.924,"body":"build it better together."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.684,"endTime":95.874,"body":"It was a great episode"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.684,"endTime":95.874,"body":"and a fantastic discussion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":95.874,"endTime":97.644,"body":"for myself today."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":97.884,"endTime":98.994,"body":"I have an engine."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":99.914,"endTime":103.484,"body":"Who's actually putting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":99.914,"endTime":103.484,"body":"this things into motion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":103.604,"endTime":107.484,"body":"He's someone who's dealt with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":103.604,"endTime":107.484,"body":"wind engineering, earthquake"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":107.504,"endTime":112.484,"body":"engineering, fire engineering,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":107.504,"endTime":112.484,"body":"and has a head full of ideas."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":112.994,"endTime":118.494,"body":"How we turn the buildings"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":112.994,"endTime":118.494,"body":"we design slightly better"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":118.514,"endTime":121.294,"body":"environment for firefighters."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":121.714,"endTime":124.984,"body":"And the topic of today's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":121.714,"endTime":124.984,"body":"episode is firefighter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":124.984,"endTime":129.874,"body":"resiliency or buildings,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":124.984,"endTime":129.874,"body":"resilience for firefighting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":130.679,"endTime":134.909,"body":"And my guest is Ali Ashrafi, he"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":130.679,"endTime":134.909,"body":"is   with, , Thornton Tomasetti"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":134.909,"endTime":140.399,"body":"company, but also lined with a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":134.909,"endTime":140.399,"body":"Colombia University where he is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":140.399,"endTime":143.879,"body":"lecturing, wind, and earthquake"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":140.399,"endTime":143.879,"body":"engineering for 10 years."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":143.909,"endTime":146.669,"body":"And recently has"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":143.909,"endTime":146.669,"body":"started structural fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":146.669,"endTime":149.629,"body":"engineering course, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":146.669,"endTime":149.629,"body":"Ihope it's going great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":150.159,"endTime":154.599,"body":"Ali has some great thoughts on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":150.159,"endTime":154.599,"body":"how the design influences the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":154.599,"endTime":157.869,"body":"battleground the firefighters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":154.599,"endTime":157.869,"body":"will be fighting on."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":157.959,"endTime":162.069,"body":"How can we think about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":157.959,"endTime":162.069,"body":"the design in a way that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":162.099,"endTime":166.569,"body":"promotes easier firefighting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":162.099,"endTime":166.569,"body":"or safer firefighting and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":166.569,"endTime":170.079,"body":"how it all aligns into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":166.569,"endTime":170.079,"body":"the performance-based"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":170.079,"endTime":171.309,"body":"engineering framework."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.789,"endTime":176.539,"body":"So, If you've enjoyed the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.789,"endTime":176.539,"body":"episode with Brad Mitchum, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":176.539,"endTime":178.369,"body":"will enjoy this one for sure."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.369,"endTime":182.579,"body":"Because it's like,  the actions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.369,"endTime":182.579,"body":"that we need to take, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":182.579,"endTime":184.919,"body":"fulfill Brian's prophecies."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":185.459,"endTime":188.399,"body":"And if you haven't heard"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":185.459,"endTime":188.399,"body":"that episode of the Brian"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":188.399,"endTime":191.459,"body":"who shoots, but I'm sure you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":188.399,"endTime":191.459,"body":"will like this one as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":191.969,"endTime":193.779,"body":"So,  let's not prolong this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":194.519,"endTime":198.359,"body":"That's welcome Malia"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":194.519,"endTime":198.359,"body":"roughy and these episodes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":198.789,"endTime":201.869,"body":"So yeah, that's been Dane shore"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":198.789,"endTime":201.869,"body":"and jump into the episode."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":225.339,"endTime":226.089,"body":"Hello everybody."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":226.179,"endTime":226.629,"body":"I'm here"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":226.629,"endTime":229.139,"body":"today"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":226.629,"endTime":229.139,"body":"with Ali Ashrafi who is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":229.139,"endTime":230.919,"body":"with Thornton Tomasetti."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":231.469,"endTime":232.729,"body":"Hello Ali, good to have you here"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":233.309,"endTime":234.962,"body":"Hi Wojciech,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":233.309,"endTime":234.962,"body":"thank you for having me."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":235.724,"endTime":236.834,"body":"Really happy to have you here."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":237.164,"endTime":240.434,"body":"And today we're discussing a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":237.164,"endTime":240.434,"body":"very important subject of a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":241.094,"endTime":245.374,"body":"structure, fire engineering,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":241.094,"endTime":245.374,"body":"the firefighter resiliency"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":245.424,"endTime":246.964,"body":"in the buildings we design."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":247.354,"endTime":250.834,"body":"But as you are a fire"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":247.354,"endTime":250.834,"body":"engineer who is located in"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":250.834,"endTime":254.134,"body":"the New York, we are three"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":250.834,"endTime":254.134,"body":"years after the 20 year"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":254.374,"endTime":256.444,"body":"anniversary of 9/11."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":256.924,"endTime":257.134,"body":"From"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":257.134,"endTime":258.914,"body":"your view, like you're in the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":258.914,"endTime":264.094,"body":"big apple, how did, this tragedy"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":258.914,"endTime":264.094,"body":"change the world of structural"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":264.094,"endTime":266.734,"body":"fire engineering and maybe"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":264.094,"endTime":266.734,"body":"structural fire engineering"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":266.764,"endTime":267.784,"body":"from your perspective?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":267.64,"endTime":270.67,"body":"First of all,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":267.64,"endTime":270.67,"body":"thank you for having me here."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":270.7,"endTime":276.52,"body":"And to some extent, the timing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":270.7,"endTime":276.52,"body":"off it was a coincidence that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":276.52,"endTime":279.67,"body":"we are at the 20th anniversary,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":276.52,"endTime":279.67,"body":"but it does bring up a lot"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":279.67,"endTime":284.29,"body":"of the discussions and the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":279.67,"endTime":284.29,"body":"events of that day and the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":284.29,"endTime":286.27,"body":"collapse of the buildings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":286.37,"endTime":289.73,"body":"Instructive in things that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":286.37,"endTime":289.73,"body":"are similar, but things that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":289.73,"endTime":292.97,"body":"are also different, obviously"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":289.73,"endTime":292.97,"body":"those events were unique."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":293.0,"endTime":296.81,"body":"It was, we had collapses"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":293.0,"endTime":296.81,"body":"that were a result of many"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":296.81,"endTime":300.14,"body":"things, starting with massive"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":296.81,"endTime":300.14,"body":"planes, hitting buildings"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":300.14,"endTime":303.23,"body":"and taking a big part of this"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":300.14,"endTime":303.23,"body":"structure out and taking the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":303.23,"endTime":306.95,"body":"fireproofing out and then"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":303.23,"endTime":306.95,"body":"a massive fire on multiple"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":306.95,"endTime":309.32,"body":"floors going with no response."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":309.59,"endTime":314.57,"body":"So in some ways that's very"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":309.59,"endTime":314.57,"body":"different from any other"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":314.57,"endTime":315.83,"body":"building that we designed for."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":315.83,"endTime":319.76,"body":"That's something to highlight"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":315.83,"endTime":319.76,"body":"that in any standard design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":319.76,"endTime":322.7,"body":"that we're looking at, even"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":319.76,"endTime":322.7,"body":"more resilient designs, we're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":322.7,"endTime":327.79,"body":"never designing for that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":322.7,"endTime":327.79,"body":"level of damage to a building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":328.71,"endTime":332.69,"body":"Having said that you look at"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":328.71,"endTime":332.69,"body":"what happened and there are"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":332.72,"endTime":334.19,"body":"certainly lessons learned."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":334.31,"endTime":337.895,"body":"First of all, those buildings"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":334.31,"endTime":337.895,"body":"actually, Pretty resilient."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":337.955,"endTime":341.645,"body":"A lot of people got out of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":337.955,"endTime":341.645,"body":"those buildings in spite of the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":341.675,"endTime":343.535,"body":"massive damage to the buildings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":343.595,"endTime":348.695,"body":"And that highlights the role"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":343.595,"endTime":348.695,"body":"of structural stability and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":348.695,"endTime":352.835,"body":"resilience of a building that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":348.695,"endTime":352.835,"body":"can take some level of damage."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":353.195,"endTime":355.865,"body":"And then even in a typical"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":353.195,"endTime":355.865,"body":"case, that would be a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":355.865,"endTime":357.155,"body":"massive fire in a building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":357.185,"endTime":357.455,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":357.455,"endTime":359.975,"body":"You might have a fire that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":357.455,"endTime":359.975,"body":"starts in your sprinklers."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":360.97,"endTime":362.92,"body":"They don't control"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":360.97,"endTime":362.92,"body":"it and it grows."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":362.93,"endTime":366.1,"body":"And now you have something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":362.93,"endTime":366.1,"body":"massive acting on your building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":366.85,"endTime":370.27,"body":"It highlights the importance"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":366.85,"endTime":370.27,"body":"of that resilience."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":370.3,"endTime":371.05,"body":"Certainly."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":371.64,"endTime":376.32,"body":"It does highlight the importance"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":371.64,"endTime":376.32,"body":"of how the different pieces of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":376.32,"endTime":377.7,"body":"design have to work together."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":377.7,"endTime":380.97,"body":"So it was the building that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":377.7,"endTime":380.97,"body":"stood for some duration."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":381.48,"endTime":384.42,"body":"It was also, people were"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":381.48,"endTime":384.42,"body":"able to evacuate the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":384.42,"endTime":385.95,"body":"building in that time period."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":385.95,"endTime":391.03,"body":"When you look at what happened,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":385.95,"endTime":391.03,"body":"almost anyone that was below"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":391.03,"endTime":393.61,"body":"the floors, where there was"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":391.03,"endTime":393.61,"body":"the impact they got out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":393.61,"endTime":397.18,"body":"It was the people who were"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":393.61,"endTime":397.18,"body":"above and that they basically"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":397.18,"endTime":398.59,"body":"lost their means of egress."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":398.62,"endTime":401.08,"body":"It's those people who"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":398.62,"endTime":401.08,"body":"unfortunately could."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":401.257,"endTime":402.877,"body":"And the ones who, who came"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":402.877,"endTime":403.807,"body":"into the building game"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":403.9,"endTime":404.47,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":404.47,"endTime":408.84,"body":"And that's where the firefighter"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":404.47,"endTime":408.84,"body":"safety issue comes in."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":409.2,"endTime":412.75,"body":"And it, again, highlights"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":409.2,"endTime":412.75,"body":"challenge that we designed this"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":412.75,"endTime":416.34,"body":"building and the ultimate goal."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":416.34,"endTime":417.96,"body":"The first goal is life safety."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":417.96,"endTime":420.42,"body":"And when you look at the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":417.96,"endTime":420.42,"body":"life safety it's occupants"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":420.45,"endTime":424.11,"body":"and it's firefighters and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":420.45,"endTime":424.11,"body":"occupants of a building, you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":424.11,"endTime":425.88,"body":"want to get, have them get out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":425.94,"endTime":430.25,"body":"The chances of someone"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":425.94,"endTime":430.25,"body":"being in a building, with"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":430.25,"endTime":433.07,"body":"a massive fire in their"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":430.25,"endTime":433.07,"body":"lifetime is not very large."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":433.1,"endTime":435.77,"body":"We're designing to minimize"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":433.1,"endTime":435.77,"body":"the risk of that to people,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":435.77,"endTime":439.16,"body":"but any individual the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":435.77,"endTime":439.16,"body":"risk that they're exposed"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":439.16,"endTime":441.2,"body":"to is small in their life."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":441.7,"endTime":445.15,"body":"But if you're a firefighter"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":441.7,"endTime":445.15,"body":"that is your job, and that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":445.15,"endTime":451.03,"body":"something that you want to do"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":445.15,"endTime":451.03,"body":"for 20, 25, 30 years and do it"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":451.09,"endTime":457.12,"body":"day in, day out, go do your job,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":451.09,"endTime":457.12,"body":"save people's lives, but also"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":457.21,"endTime":462.43,"body":"go back home to your family and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":457.21,"endTime":462.43,"body":"be safe and not be, physically"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":462.55,"endTime":464.35,"body":"damaged in this process."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":464.35,"endTime":464.74,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":464.95,"endTime":470.105,"body":"So when you're talking about"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":464.95,"endTime":470.105,"body":"safety, the people who are most"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":470.105,"endTime":472.925,"body":"effected and we should be really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":470.105,"endTime":472.925,"body":"thinking about is firefighters"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":472.925,"endTime":476.255,"body":"who do go into these buildings"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":472.925,"endTime":476.255,"body":"at the worst time every day."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":476.755,"endTime":477.205,"body":"It's difficult"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":477.205,"endTime":479.395,"body":"to frame"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":477.205,"endTime":479.395,"body":"9/11 as a success story,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":479.445,"endTime":480.555,"body":"there is something to that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":480.555,"endTime":483.495,"body":". The buildings could have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":480.555,"endTime":483.495,"body":"collapsed much sooner killing"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":483.495,"endTime":486.845,"body":"all of them who were below"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":483.495,"endTime":486.845,"body":"the impact point for example."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":487.265,"endTime":490.895,"body":"And it could have been"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":487.265,"endTime":490.895,"body":"a much bigger tragedy."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":490.925,"endTime":491.615,"body":"I don't know if you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":491.615,"endTime":492.855,"body":"can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":491.615,"endTime":492.855,"body":"like weight the tragedies,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":492.855,"endTime":493.685,"body":"just how big there are,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":493.685,"endTime":496.925,"body":"but it was a huge strategy,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":493.685,"endTime":496.925,"body":"but it could have one"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":496.925,"endTime":499.205,"body":"different, it could have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":496.925,"endTime":499.205,"body":"taken a lot more lives."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":499.235,"endTime":501.705,"body":"And, in this way, this"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":499.235,"endTime":501.705,"body":"structural resiliency,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":501.705,"endTime":504.435,"body":"like the building survived"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":501.705,"endTime":504.435,"body":"for as long as it could."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":504.535,"endTime":507.835,"body":"It's interesting to learn how"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":504.535,"endTime":507.835,"body":"buildings survive and what"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":507.835,"endTime":509.335,"body":"makes them survive that long."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":509.335,"endTime":513.625,"body":"And how can we make it survive"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":509.335,"endTime":513.625,"body":"to meet our objectives?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":513.895,"endTime":518.315,"body":"And this is something I really"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":513.895,"endTime":518.315,"body":"wanted to touch in this episode."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":519.005,"endTime":522.695,"body":"In this podcast, I had"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":519.005,"endTime":522.695,"body":"some really cool interviews"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":523.415,"endTime":525.155,"body":"and between me and my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":525.155,"endTime":527.175,"body":"audience, and You are the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":527.29,"endTime":528.37,"body":"only one who's not going"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":528.37,"endTime":529.9,"body":"to hear them because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":529.9,"endTime":530.78,"body":"this is theepisodes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":530.78,"endTime":531.46,"body":"that are going to air"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":531.46,"endTime":532.98,"body":"before your episodes."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":533.16,"endTime":535.2,"body":"So you're in the most"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":533.16,"endTime":535.2,"body":"unfortunate position here,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":535.2,"endTime":537.66,"body":"but I'm going to tell you"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":535.2,"endTime":537.66,"body":"what there were about."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":537.93,"endTime":538.92,"body":"I've interviewed Danny"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":538.92,"endTime":540.99,"body":"Hopkin from OFR consultants"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":540.99,"endTime":543.17,"body":"who mentioned with whom we"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":543.17,"endTime":545.65,"body":"discussed mass timber and"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":543.17,"endTime":545.65,"body":"fire engineer, timber and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":545.65,"endTime":546.04,"body":"fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":546.43,"endTime":547.12,"body":"And Danny he brought"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":547.12,"endTime":548.77,"body":"up the issue of objectives."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":548.8,"endTime":551.41,"body":"Like fire resistance is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":548.8,"endTime":551.41,"body":"horrible objective because"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":551.41,"endTime":553.51,"body":"for a small building, it means"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":551.41,"endTime":553.51,"body":"something completely different"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":553.51,"endTime":554.77,"body":"than for a tall building."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":555.37,"endTime":555.82,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":555.82,"endTime":558.49,"body":"had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":555.82,"endTime":558.49,"body":"Brian Meacham who told"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":558.49,"endTime":561.17,"body":"a lot about, this fire safety"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":561.17,"endTime":565.28,"body":"being a social technical,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":561.17,"endTime":565.28,"body":"system of multiple things"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":565.28,"endTime":566.6,"body":"that have to align together."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":567.02,"endTime":569.96,"body":"And again, the missing"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":567.02,"endTime":569.96,"body":"link in the system."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":570.72,"endTime":574.69,"body":"Are the objectives in a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":570.72,"endTime":574.69,"body":"way that start building"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":574.69,"endTime":577.09,"body":"a new world with better"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":574.69,"endTime":577.09,"body":"performance based engineering"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":577.09,"endTime":578.02,"body":"and better engineering."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":578.05,"endTime":581.77,"body":"Overall first, we should"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":578.05,"endTime":581.77,"body":"be clear on what the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":581.77,"endTime":585.43,"body":"objectives are, because if"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":581.77,"endTime":585.43,"body":"your objective is to have 60"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":585.43,"endTime":589.21,"body":"minutes fire resistance on"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":585.43,"endTime":589.21,"body":"your columns, that's not a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":589.21,"endTime":590.65,"body":"great objective after all."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":590.65,"endTime":594.25,"body":"It's a compliance"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":590.65,"endTime":594.25,"body":"goal, not an objective."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":594.25,"endTime":600.46,"body":"When we've connected, you"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":594.25,"endTime":600.46,"body":"told about this firefighter"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":600.46,"endTime":604.81,"body":"resiliency and for me, wow,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":600.46,"endTime":604.81,"body":"that's an objective that we"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":604.81,"endTime":606.4,"body":"don't really often consider."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":606.85,"endTime":608.05,"body":"We focus on egress."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":608.05,"endTime":612.64,"body":"We focus on survivability of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":608.05,"endTime":612.64,"body":"the structure long enough to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":612.64,"endTime":614.56,"body":"not create this enormous harm."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":615.13,"endTime":618.07,"body":"But as you mentioned, there"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":615.13,"endTime":618.07,"body":"are people whose job is to go"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":618.43,"endTime":619.61,"body":"into such buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":620.01,"endTime":620.64,"body":"And in many"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":620.665,"endTime":621.655,"body":"countries it's handled"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":621.655,"endTime":622.585,"body":"in different ways."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":623.095,"endTime":628.305,"body":"And I wondered how in your"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":623.095,"endTime":628.305,"body":"view, we could, implement"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":628.305,"endTime":632.745,"body":"this objective of firefighter"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":628.305,"endTime":632.745,"body":"resiliency or the ability of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":632.745,"endTime":637.315,"body":"the buildings to be firefighting"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":632.745,"endTime":637.315,"body":"as I understand it into the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":637.315,"endTime":640.605,"body":"design process, because for"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":637.315,"endTime":640.605,"body":"me today, it's not there for."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":641.105,"endTime":641.945,"body":"I agree with you."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":641.975,"endTime":644.815,"body":"And, I do look forward"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":641.975,"endTime":644.815,"body":"to listening to these"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":644.815,"endTime":646.405,"body":"interviews when they air out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":646.825,"endTime":649.985,"body":"But you mentioned a couple"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":646.825,"endTime":649.985,"body":"of really key points."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":650.995,"endTime":654.295,"body":"One of the most important"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":650.995,"endTime":654.295,"body":"things is a design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":654.295,"endTime":655.465,"body":"should have an objective."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":656.155,"endTime":658.765,"body":"And when you look at how"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":656.155,"endTime":658.765,"body":"we design for different"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":658.765,"endTime":662.575,"body":"risks, sometimes we're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":658.765,"endTime":662.575,"body":"more explicit about that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":662.575,"endTime":663.115,"body":"Objective."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":663.115,"endTime":666.415,"body":"Sometimes we are less"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":663.115,"endTime":666.415,"body":"explicit, by training I'm a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":666.415,"endTime":669.805,"body":"structural engineer and when"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":666.415,"endTime":669.805,"body":"I'm looking at fire, that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":669.805,"endTime":671.245,"body":"where my expertise lies."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":671.245,"endTime":675.495,"body":"But one thing that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":671.245,"endTime":675.495,"body":"is really key here."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":676.675,"endTime":679.405,"body":"These are complex"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":676.675,"endTime":679.405,"body":"multifaceted issues."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":679.465,"endTime":683.365,"body":"And so no matter where each"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":679.465,"endTime":683.365,"body":"of us is coming from what"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":683.365,"endTime":686.785,"body":"the discipline is, we should"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":683.365,"endTime":686.785,"body":"be designing in the context"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":686.845,"endTime":688.615,"body":"of overall safety goals."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":688.945,"endTime":691.285,"body":"And so there should be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":688.945,"endTime":691.285,"body":"dialogue between these designs."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":691.285,"endTime":693.865,"body":"These are not individual"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":691.285,"endTime":693.865,"body":"pieces of design, they"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":693.865,"endTime":694.855,"body":"should talk to each other."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":694.855,"endTime":698.245,"body":"And the way that most designs"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":694.855,"endTime":698.245,"body":"are today, that doesn't happen."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":698.832,"endTime":699.112,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":699.173,"endTime":702.543,"body":"I want to add"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":699.173,"endTime":702.543,"body":"that when it comes to safety"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":702.573,"endTime":707.013,"body":"of destructure in fire,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":702.573,"endTime":707.013,"body":"what we do right today, the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":707.013,"endTime":709.803,"body":"common practice, which is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":707.013,"endTime":709.803,"body":"a prescriptive practice."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":709.863,"endTime":713.613,"body":"And you mentioned it's based on"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":709.863,"endTime":713.613,"body":"the fire resistance terminology"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":713.613,"endTime":716.193,"body":"is really not explicit."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":716.193,"endTime":720.153,"body":"So in a fire resistance"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":716.193,"endTime":720.153,"body":"terminology, you take specific"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":720.183,"endTime":723.333,"body":"pieces of a building and you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":720.183,"endTime":723.333,"body":"put them in a furnace for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":723.333,"endTime":725.873,"body":"some duration and you say"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":723.333,"endTime":725.873,"body":"itpassed and thats great."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":726.503,"endTime":729.573,"body":"But that actually doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":726.503,"endTime":729.573,"body":"tell you anything about how"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":729.573,"endTime":733.353,"body":"the building as a system is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":729.573,"endTime":733.353,"body":"going to respond to the fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":733.953,"endTime":739.583,"body":"And if I want to bring it back"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":733.953,"endTime":739.583,"body":"to the question of firefighters"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":739.583,"endTime":745.423,"body":"safety, I see really three"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":739.583,"endTime":745.423,"body":"things that are key and they"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":745.423,"endTime":746.653,"body":"should speak to each other."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":747.103,"endTime":751.363,"body":"One of them is stability"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":747.103,"endTime":751.363,"body":"of the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":752.173,"endTime":756.193,"body":"The building is the battlefield"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":752.173,"endTime":756.193,"body":"where you're fighting a fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":757.033,"endTime":760.993,"body":"If someone's going in, they need"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":757.033,"endTime":760.993,"body":"to make sure that the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":760.993,"endTime":762.043,"body":"will not collapse in them."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":762.083,"endTime":763.343,"body":"That is the baseline, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":763.343,"endTime":766.163,"body":"So the structural stability"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":763.343,"endTime":766.163,"body":"is a really important piece."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":766.793,"endTime":769.613,"body":"The second piece is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":766.793,"endTime":769.613,"body":"evacuation, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":769.613,"endTime":772.493,"body":"So we're doing all of this"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":769.613,"endTime":772.493,"body":"because we want to save lives."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":772.823,"endTime":778.463,"body":"You want to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":772.823,"endTime":778.463,"body":"A either you can evacuate"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":778.493,"endTime":779.993,"body":"everyone from the building safe."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":780.803,"endTime":783.533,"body":"That includes after everyone"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":780.803,"endTime":783.533,"body":"comes out, that includes"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":783.533,"endTime":786.113,"body":"firefighters being able to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":783.533,"endTime":786.113,"body":"do their job and coming out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":786.833,"endTime":792.493,"body":"Or if you're designed requires"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":786.833,"endTime":792.493,"body":"you to, have some people in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":792.493,"endTime":796.393,"body":"the building or if the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":792.493,"endTime":796.393,"body":"is, think of a really high-rise"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":796.393,"endTime":798.643,"body":"building and things of that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":796.393,"endTime":798.643,"body":"complex space, or think of a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":798.643,"endTime":802.493,"body":"place where, you have people"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":798.643,"endTime":802.493,"body":"who are sick, who are disabled,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":802.823,"endTime":805.103,"body":"who cannot evacuate easily."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":805.103,"endTime":808.453,"body":"And so you, your design has to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":805.103,"endTime":808.453,"body":"be, you really allow them to."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":809.213,"endTime":812.573,"body":"Stay somewhere safe in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":809.213,"endTime":812.573,"body":"a building until the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":812.573,"endTime":814.913,"body":"fire is dealt with."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":815.423,"endTime":816.743,"body":"That's that second question."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":816.773,"endTime":819.833,"body":"The question of evacuation,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":816.773,"endTime":819.833,"body":"and then the third piece"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":819.833,"endTime":824.753,"body":"of this is firefighting and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":819.833,"endTime":824.753,"body":"firefighting needs things."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":824.753,"endTime":826.703,"body":"There's an infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":824.753,"endTime":826.703,"body":"in a building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":826.763,"endTime":829.373,"body":"If you look at again, a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":826.763,"endTime":829.373,"body":"large complex building,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":829.893,"endTime":832.453,"body":"there's a limit to what"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":829.893,"endTime":832.453,"body":"you can do from outside."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":832.873,"endTime":834.583,"body":"Firefighters really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":832.873,"endTime":834.583,"body":"have to come in."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":835.618,"endTime":837.538,"body":"They need to get to where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":835.618,"endTime":837.538,"body":"they need to get to."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":837.538,"endTime":839.728,"body":"And that could be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":837.538,"endTime":839.728,"body":"tens of floors up."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":840.208,"endTime":842.668,"body":"They might need specific"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":840.208,"endTime":842.668,"body":"elevator access."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":842.728,"endTime":845.338,"body":"They're competing for the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":842.728,"endTime":845.338,"body":"stairs with people who want"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":845.338,"endTime":846.778,"body":"to get out of the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":847.348,"endTime":850.378,"body":"And then they're relying"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":847.348,"endTime":850.378,"body":"on the building system"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":850.408,"endTime":854.728,"body":"regarding standpipes or"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":850.408,"endTime":854.728,"body":"availability of sprinklers"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":854.728,"endTime":857.398,"body":"to help them fight the fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":857.448,"endTime":860.748,"body":"Those three pieces"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":857.448,"endTime":860.748,"body":"are all relevant and."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":860.802,"endTime":861.963,"body":"They should speak to each other."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":861.963,"endTime":863.703,"body":"They have an impact"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":861.963,"endTime":863.703,"body":"on each other."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":863.703,"endTime":868.533,"body":"So for example, if you know"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":863.703,"endTime":868.533,"body":"that the building will survive"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":869.073,"endTime":872.043,"body":"the fire, and even if you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":869.073,"endTime":872.043,"body":"don't do anything to building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":872.043,"endTime":875.043,"body":"will not collapse on you,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":872.043,"endTime":875.043,"body":"that might allow you to design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":875.043,"endTime":877.593,"body":"the building in a way that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":875.043,"endTime":877.593,"body":"people move from somewhere to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":877.593,"endTime":879.213,"body":"a safe place in the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":879.753,"endTime":882.753,"body":"It's a better, easier"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":879.753,"endTime":882.753,"body":"evacuation problem."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":883.353,"endTime":887.553,"body":"It allows the firefighters to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":883.353,"endTime":887.553,"body":"do their job much more safety"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":887.553,"endTime":891.813,"body":"at focused the effect, the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":887.553,"endTime":891.813,"body":"effort more on firefighting."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":892.263,"endTime":896.043,"body":"Whereas if you have a building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":892.263,"endTime":896.043,"body":"where you have this risk of a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":896.043,"endTime":899.133,"body":"building collapsing and people"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":896.043,"endTime":899.133,"body":"are inside the building, it's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":899.133,"endTime":902.023,"body":"forces, the firefighters who"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":899.133,"endTime":902.023,"body":"take more risk, they have to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":902.023,"endTime":906.148,"body":"make decisions that, ideally,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":902.023,"endTime":906.148,"body":"they don't want to make,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":906.148,"endTime":908.278,"body":"they wouldn't want to make,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":906.148,"endTime":908.278,"body":"but they have to put their"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":908.278,"endTime":911.038,"body":"lives at risk because there"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":908.278,"endTime":911.038,"body":"are other lives at risk."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":911.038,"endTime":911.338,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":911.368,"endTime":913.888,"body":"And so these things have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":911.368,"endTime":913.888,"body":"to really speak to each"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":913.888,"endTime":914.908,"body":"other as part of this."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":915.227,"endTime":916.547,"body":"You said the firefighters"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":916.577,"endTime":919.007,"body":"can risk their lives"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":916.577,"endTime":919.007,"body":"entering the building."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":919.607,"endTime":921.667,"body":"And you said that the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":919.607,"endTime":921.667,"body":"firefighters would have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":921.667,"endTime":926.767,"body":"to enter the building, but"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":921.667,"endTime":926.767,"body":"this is also an objective."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":926.847,"endTime":932.187,"body":"If the building is supposed"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":926.847,"endTime":932.187,"body":"to survive, is it supposed"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":932.187,"endTime":938.937,"body":"to survive and be refurbished"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":932.187,"endTime":938.937,"body":"immediately to allow operation"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":939.087,"endTime":942.387,"body":"immediately after the fire,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":939.087,"endTime":942.387,"body":"or we just want everyone"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":942.417,"endTime":946.827,"body":"out of the building and just"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":942.417,"endTime":946.827,"body":"whatever the final outcome of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":946.827,"endTime":948.567,"body":"the fire is, it is what it is."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":949.227,"endTime":950.697,"body":"And these are like"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":949.227,"endTime":950.697,"body":"three objectives."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":950.697,"endTime":951.807,"body":"You can design a building to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":951.807,"endTime":954.642,"body":"survive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":951.807,"endTime":954.642,"body":"the fire unscattered,  you can"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":954.642,"endTime":956.802,"body":"have a building that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":956.882,"endTime":959.082,"body":"will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":956.882,"endTime":959.082,"body":"require refurbrishment,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":959.102,"endTime":960.162,"body":"but it's reusable."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":960.182,"endTime":960.362,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":960.362,"endTime":961.612,"body":"then you have, a building"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":962.032,"endTime":964.162,"body":"in which the safety is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":962.032,"endTime":964.162,"body":"determined by the ability"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":964.162,"endTime":967.372,"body":"of everyone to not die in"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":964.162,"endTime":967.372,"body":"it while having a fire."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":967.852,"endTime":971.142,"body":"If you are let's say a worker in"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":967.852,"endTime":971.142,"body":"the building this objectives are"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":971.142,"endTime":972.372,"body":"not that interesting for you."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":973.362,"endTime":976.212,"body":"Mostly interested in saving"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":973.362,"endTime":976.212,"body":"your life from the fire."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":976.482,"endTime":978.132,"body":"If you are the owner"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":976.482,"endTime":978.132,"body":"of the building."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":978.632,"endTime":982.532,"body":"It's probably affected by"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":978.632,"endTime":982.532,"body":"the technical complexity of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":982.532,"endTime":985.952,"body":"the building operations that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":982.532,"endTime":985.952,"body":"are being held with that the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":985.952,"endTime":988.862,"body":"business impact, the destruction"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":985.952,"endTime":988.862,"body":"of the building will have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":989.192,"endTime":993.152,"body":"on your operations and the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":989.192,"endTime":993.152,"body":"insurance you signed up for."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":993.572,"endTime":995.462,"body":"So these are the things"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":993.572,"endTime":995.462,"body":"that will determine if you"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":995.462,"endTime":998.282,"body":"are okay with the building"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":995.462,"endTime":998.282,"body":"being burned to the ground"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":998.282,"endTime":999.012,"body":"and you'll erect a new"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":999.032,"endTime":1000.352,"body":"one, or you will really"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1000.352,"endTime":1001.192,"body":"need one to saved."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1001.762,"endTime":1002.782,"body":"But if you're a firefighter."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1003.532,"endTime":1005.062,"body":"I mean, that's a tough"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1003.532,"endTime":1005.062,"body":"choice, you know?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1005.142,"endTime":1007.512,"body":"Should I go and save the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1005.142,"endTime":1007.512,"body":"building for the sake of a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1007.512,"endTime":1009.542,"body":"saving a building or more?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1009.552,"endTime":1013.362,"body":"Should I just, minimize the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1009.552,"endTime":1013.362,"body":"collateral damage around it?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1013.812,"endTime":1017.022,"body":"Obviously when there is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1013.812,"endTime":1017.022,"body":"a life at risk, it's a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1017.022,"endTime":1019.482,"body":"completely different topic"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1017.022,"endTime":1019.482,"body":"because from my experience"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1019.482,"endTime":1022.332,"body":"with firefighters, they will"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1019.482,"endTime":1022.332,"body":"always go in to save lives."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1022.432,"endTime":1025.992,"body":"Because the guys are heroes, but"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1022.432,"endTime":1025.992,"body":"from just the built environment"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1025.992,"endTime":1031.002,"body":"perspective, I, I'm not sure"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1025.992,"endTime":1031.002,"body":"if the objective of saving"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1031.002,"endTime":1032.592,"body":"the building at any cost is,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1033.062,"endTime":1033.962,"body":"is a feasible one."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1034.232,"endTime":1034.382,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1034.382,"endTime":1035.792,"body":"now let's go back"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1035.792,"endTime":1036.812,"body":"to the design phase."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1037.302,"endTime":1040.302,"body":"How big changes in the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1037.302,"endTime":1040.302,"body":"design has to be made to,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1040.312,"endTime":1043.852,"body":"allow for these objectives"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1040.312,"endTime":1043.852,"body":"to be done, like how much."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1044.737,"endTime":1047.447,"body":"Fire suppression,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1044.737,"endTime":1047.447,"body":"fire protection."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1047.447,"endTime":1050.927,"body":"I have to put in my building"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1047.447,"endTime":1050.927,"body":"to go from just everyone out."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1050.927,"endTime":1053.257,"body":"And everyone's safe"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1050.927,"endTime":1053.257,"body":"into the building  is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1053.327,"endTime":1054.647,"body":"unscattered after the fire"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1054.81,"endTime":1057.27,"body":"a couple of really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1054.81,"endTime":1057.27,"body":"good questions that you raised."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1057.27,"endTime":1059.13,"body":"So I'll try to address,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1059.728,"endTime":1060.388,"body":"We can break them,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1060.48,"endTime":1061.74,"body":"both one at a time."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1062.188,"endTime":1062.638,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1063.695,"endTime":1064.805,"body":"You're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1063.695,"endTime":1064.805,"body":"absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1064.865,"endTime":1068.915,"body":"The objective of the design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1064.865,"endTime":1068.915,"body":"really does depend on what"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1068.915,"endTime":1072.155,"body":"you're designing for and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1068.915,"endTime":1072.155,"body":"what's the context and I'll"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1072.155,"endTime":1075.935,"body":"give you the range and there's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1072.155,"endTime":1075.935,"body":"no one answer that the point"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1075.935,"endTime":1079.565,"body":"of the design is the design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1075.935,"endTime":1079.565,"body":"should be appropriate for your"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1079.565,"endTime":1081.455,"body":"building and its environment."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1081.635,"endTime":1086.055,"body":"So on one enough, let's think"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1081.635,"endTime":1086.055,"body":"of a smaller residential"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1086.055,"endTime":1087.615,"body":"buildings in a suburb."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1087.645,"endTime":1089.815,"body":"You have a two story, building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1090.895,"endTime":1092.455,"body":"The risk of a collapse"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1090.895,"endTime":1092.455,"body":"of the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1092.455,"endTime":1095.695,"body":"Once people come out is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1092.455,"endTime":1095.695,"body":"it doesn't have any other"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1095.695,"endTime":1099.415,"body":"impact, broad, broader than"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1095.695,"endTime":1099.415,"body":"that building in that case,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1099.445,"endTime":1101.725,"body":"most of the codes, really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1099.445,"endTime":1101.725,"body":"the provisions are there"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1101.725,"endTime":1104.305,"body":"to make sure that people"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1101.725,"endTime":1104.305,"body":"can get out safety, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1104.515,"endTime":1105.775,"body":"The building might burn out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1106.045,"endTime":1109.015,"body":"You could build the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1106.045,"endTime":1109.015,"body":"off combustible materials."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1109.015,"endTime":1112.555,"body":"There is no expectation because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1109.015,"endTime":1112.555,"body":"the consequences are manageable."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1113.575,"endTime":1117.655,"body":"The other end of the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1113.575,"endTime":1117.655,"body":"spectrumThink off..."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1118.11,"endTime":1118.89,"body":"I'm in New York."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1118.89,"endTime":1122.94,"body":"So I'm going to use New York"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1118.89,"endTime":1122.94,"body":"as the baseline, but you're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1122.94,"endTime":1125.28,"body":"in this dense urban area."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1126.12,"endTime":1129.0,"body":"And let's say you have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1126.12,"endTime":1129.0,"body":"a building that's large"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1129.0,"endTime":1130.32,"body":"enough, substantial enough."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1130.32,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"You have a building to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1130.32,"endTime":1132.9,"body":"the right and the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1132.91,"endTime":1135.4,"body":"to the left and subway in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1132.91,"endTime":1135.4,"body":"front of your building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1135.97,"endTime":1140.05,"body":"Even if you get everyone out of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1135.97,"endTime":1140.05,"body":"the building is the collapse of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1140.05,"endTime":1143.532,"body":"this building at the end of that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1140.05,"endTime":1143.532,"body":"process, unacceptable goals."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1143.94,"endTime":1147.39,"body":"Probably not, but the codes"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1143.94,"endTime":1147.39,"body":"today do not get you there."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1147.39,"endTime":1151.44,"body":"The codes do not explicitly"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1147.39,"endTime":1151.44,"body":"design, which is a problem."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1151.44,"endTime":1155.04,"body":"Like when it comes to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1151.44,"endTime":1155.04,"body":"fire, they're designed for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1155.04,"endTime":1157.47,"body":"safety is all implicit."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1157.47,"endTime":1158.6,"body":"Nothing is explicit."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1158.6,"endTime":1159.68,"body":"There that's one"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1158.6,"endTime":1159.68,"body":"of the problems."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1164.06,"body":"But back to your point, you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1159.68,"endTime":1164.06,"body":"have a range from in one end,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1164.06,"endTime":1167.96,"body":"you can easily get people"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1164.06,"endTime":1167.96,"body":"out and the building might"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1167.96,"endTime":1169.13,"body":"fall down and that's okay."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1169.13,"endTime":1171.62,"body":"On the other end, you have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1169.13,"endTime":1171.62,"body":"to be able to get people out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1171.98,"endTime":1175.01,"body":"And even if that's the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1171.98,"endTime":1175.01,"body":"case, really, you don't want"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1175.01,"endTime":1177.47,"body":"something to collapse because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1175.01,"endTime":1177.47,"body":"you are in a place where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1177.52,"endTime":1180.77,"body":"the damage is not contained."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1180.8,"endTime":1184.11,"body":"So that's the conversation"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1180.8,"endTime":1184.11,"body":"that's relevant for each"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1184.11,"endTime":1186.81,"body":"design, but also it does"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1184.11,"endTime":1186.81,"body":"impact the regulations."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1186.84,"endTime":1190.02,"body":"So if you're building in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1186.84,"endTime":1190.02,"body":"New York, the requirements"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1190.05,"endTime":1192.71,"body":"on new are tougher than if"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1190.05,"endTime":1192.71,"body":"you're building in a suburb,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1193.24,"endTime":1195.795,"body":"and rightfully so because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1193.24,"endTime":1195.795,"body":"the consequences are more"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1196.635,"endTime":1199.655,"body":"That's that point of it"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1196.635,"endTime":1199.655,"body":"and then there are places"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1199.655,"endTime":1201.815,"body":"where something in between"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1199.655,"endTime":1201.815,"body":"might make sense, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1201.815,"endTime":1203.105,"body":"There are places where."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1204.515,"endTime":1206.915,"body":"It might be challenging,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1204.515,"endTime":1206.915,"body":"but you could design and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1206.915,"endTime":1207.935,"body":"you can get people out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1207.935,"endTime":1211.615,"body":"And once people are out,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1207.935,"endTime":1211.615,"body":"then yes,  a partial collapse"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1211.645,"endTime":1213.925,"body":"or something where you have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1211.645,"endTime":1213.925,"body":"to refurbish later, that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1213.925,"endTime":1215.095,"body":"an acceptable solution."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1215.095,"endTime":1217.435,"body":"So we don't want to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1215.095,"endTime":1217.435,"body":"say which one it is."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1217.435,"endTime":1218.755,"body":"It depends on the context."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1219.205,"endTime":1224.005,"body":"Now, going back to what it takes"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1219.205,"endTime":1224.005,"body":"to design a building, such that,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1224.595,"endTime":1226.695,"body":"it can really survive and fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1227.265,"endTime":1228.885,"body":"And here I'm talking about."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1229.95,"endTime":1231.45,"body":"More substantial structures."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1231.48,"endTime":1235.14,"body":"I'm not talking about"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1231.48,"endTime":1235.14,"body":"a two story residential"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1235.47,"endTime":1237.15,"body":"light with building, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1237.18,"endTime":1239.34,"body":"I'm talking about more"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1237.18,"endTime":1239.34,"body":"substantial buildings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1239.94,"endTime":1244.71,"body":"It's doable and it's actually"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1239.94,"endTime":1244.71,"body":"not extremely challenging."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1245.22,"endTime":1249.06,"body":"And if you do it right, a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1245.22,"endTime":1249.06,"body":"lot of times it's actually"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1249.06,"endTime":1250.74,"body":"coming with cost savings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1251.31,"endTime":1253.53,"body":"And the reason for that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1251.31,"endTime":1253.53,"body":"is the current approach"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1253.61,"endTime":1255.17,"body":"to safety and fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1255.905,"endTime":1256.685,"body":"Prescriptive."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1256.805,"endTime":1259.925,"body":"And so you're doing stuff"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1256.805,"endTime":1259.925,"body":"and you're hoping for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1259.925,"endTime":1262.985,"body":"safety, but you're doing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1259.925,"endTime":1262.985,"body":"it without an analysis."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1263.615,"endTime":1265.565,"body":"And for that process"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1263.615,"endTime":1265.565,"body":"to work, you have to be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1265.565,"endTime":1268.535,"body":"really conservative in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1265.565,"endTime":1268.535,"body":"some parts of that process."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1268.615,"endTime":1272.695,"body":"Whereas in a design where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1268.615,"endTime":1272.695,"body":"you're explicitly designing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1272.695,"endTime":1277.095,"body":"for safety, Your goal is very"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1272.695,"endTime":1277.095,"body":"clear, but you do things that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1277.095,"endTime":1278.355,"body":"really helped you get there."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1278.355,"endTime":1281.265,"body":"You don't waste your resources"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1278.355,"endTime":1281.265,"body":"in places where you do"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1281.265,"endTime":1284.025,"body":"something and it's really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1281.265,"endTime":1284.025,"body":"not providing any impact."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1284.445,"endTime":1286.905,"body":"And so in a lot of these"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1284.445,"endTime":1286.905,"body":"scenarios, you might be able"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1286.905,"endTime":1289.215,"body":"to actually reduce your costs."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1289.95,"endTime":1293.4,"body":"Not because you're doing less,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1289.95,"endTime":1293.4,"body":"you're doing stuff smarter."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1293.4,"endTime":1296.25,"body":"You're actually designing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1293.4,"endTime":1296.25,"body":"as opposed to doing some"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1296.25,"endTime":1298.59,"body":"general thing and hoping"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1296.25,"endTime":1298.59,"body":"that it's going to be safe."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1299.13,"endTime":1302.37,"body":"And this is something that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1299.13,"endTime":1302.37,"body":"we see in other contexts, for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1302.37,"endTime":1304.35,"body":"example, for seismic risk."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1304.85,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"There's also a simpler way"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1304.85,"endTime":1309.2,"body":"of designing and  there is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1311.99,"body":"performance-based design and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1309.2,"endTime":1311.99,"body":"in which you really go through"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1311.99,"endTime":1315.5,"body":"a lot more detail to design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1311.99,"endTime":1315.5,"body":"the building, looking at its"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1315.5,"endTime":1318.77,"body":"actual behavior and the type of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1315.5,"endTime":1318.77,"body":"damage that you're going to get."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1319.31,"endTime":1323.38,"body":"And what we see there is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1319.31,"endTime":1323.38,"body":"we spent a lot more thought"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1323.74,"endTime":1327.52,"body":"and effort in the design,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1323.74,"endTime":1327.52,"body":"but the designs typically"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1327.52,"endTime":1330.79,"body":"end up being more resilient"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1327.52,"endTime":1330.79,"body":"and cheaper because you're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1330.79,"endTime":1331.9,"body":"doing a smart design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1331.96,"endTime":1335.38,"body":"So it's not about cost per se."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1335.41,"endTime":1336.28,"body":"It's that?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1336.88,"endTime":1340.92,"body":"No one designs it that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1336.88,"endTime":1340.92,"body":"way today for fire or for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1340.93,"endTime":1341.89,"body":"most of the buildings."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1342.023,"endTime":1342.383,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1342.463,"endTime":1346.083,"body":"I'm gonna ask you a question"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1342.463,"endTime":1346.083,"body":"that is in principle."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1346.083,"endTime":1347.283,"body":"Impossible to be answered."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1347.883,"endTime":1351.343,"body":"So who should decide, if we"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1347.883,"endTime":1351.343,"body":"should pursue this particular"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1351.343,"endTime":1354.373,"body":"objective because we're"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1351.343,"endTime":1354.373,"body":"in this, I think loophole."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1355.483,"endTime":1359.683,"body":"If it is the firefighters"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1355.483,"endTime":1359.683,"body":"to decide if they want"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1359.773,"endTime":1363.363,"body":"to have the buildings, a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1359.773,"endTime":1363.363,"body":"bunker or just something"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1363.363,"endTime":1364.683,"body":"that people can escape with."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1365.103,"endTime":1370.353,"body":"They, I believe they may"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1365.103,"endTime":1370.353,"body":"not have the required amount"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1370.353,"endTime":1372.763,"body":"of knowledge in terms of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1370.353,"endTime":1372.763,"body":"structural fire engineering"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1373.423,"endTime":1376.563,"body":"or structural engineering"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1373.423,"endTime":1376.563,"body":"overall to truly judge."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1377.313,"endTime":1381.053,"body":"If, one design is superior to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1377.313,"endTime":1381.053,"body":"another, it's very difficult."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1381.053,"endTime":1383.633,"body":"And in the end, this flattens"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1381.053,"endTime":1383.633,"body":"the discussion to probably"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1383.633,"endTime":1386.393,"body":"the fire resistance periods,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1383.633,"endTime":1386.393,"body":"because this is the easiest way"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1386.393,"endTime":1388.213,"body":"to,  proxy the fire resistance."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1388.783,"endTime":1392.763,"body":"If it's the fire experts"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1388.783,"endTime":1392.763,"body":"like me or you, we don't"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1392.763,"endTime":1396.223,"body":"know the firefighters"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1392.763,"endTime":1396.223,"body":"craft, we learn from them."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1396.223,"endTime":1398.983,"body":"We talk to them,  you are,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1396.223,"endTime":1398.983,"body":"maybe you have been, but."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1399.728,"endTime":1402.728,"body":"I've never been in a situation"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1399.728,"endTime":1402.728,"body":"where I was fighting for"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1402.728,"endTime":1406.498,"body":"my life, holding a hose"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1402.728,"endTime":1406.498,"body":"in my hand and praying"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1406.498,"endTime":1407.548,"body":"that the fire goes off."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1407.818,"endTime":1409.288,"body":"I've never been in"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1407.818,"endTime":1409.288,"body":"such a situation."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1409.468,"endTime":1412.468,"body":"So I don't really know what"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1409.468,"endTime":1412.468,"body":"is the mindset of a person"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1412.768,"endTime":1415.168,"body":"fighting for their life and"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1412.768,"endTime":1415.168,"body":"trying to save the life of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1415.168,"endTime":1418.168,"body":"another person in the building"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1415.168,"endTime":1418.168,"body":"that is due to collapse."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1418.708,"endTime":1422.338,"body":"So I don't also think we are"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1418.708,"endTime":1422.338,"body":"competent to say, okay, this is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1422.338,"endTime":1426.718,"body":"the objective we should go for"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1422.338,"endTime":1426.718,"body":"because maybe in this way, we."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1426.86,"endTime":1429.29,"body":"Unintendedly forced the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1426.86,"endTime":1429.29,"body":"firefighters to enter a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1429.29,"endTime":1431.87,"body":"building because we say, okay,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1429.29,"endTime":1431.87,"body":"the objective was that the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1431.9,"endTime":1433.46,"body":"building will survive anything."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1433.82,"endTime":1437.96,"body":"So it creates, uh, if they trust"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1433.82,"endTime":1437.96,"body":"us as a fire expert, as they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1437.96,"endTime":1439.55,"body":"might"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1437.96,"endTime":1439.55,"body":"think okay, super safe"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1439.88,"endTime":1440.27,"body":"and so on."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1440.27,"endTime":1442.94,"body":"And that, that might not be the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1440.27,"endTime":1442.94,"body":"case because we are unable to,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1443.22,"endTime":1444.09,"body":"see all the fires."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1444.48,"endTime":1446.07,"body":"And if you're just an"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1446.1,"endTime":1448.44,"body":"authority, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1449.49,"endTime":1451.25,"body":"person"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1449.49,"endTime":1451.25,"body":"who, whowrites the law."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1451.77,"endTime":1452.4,"body":"You  are neither"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1452.4,"endTime":1454.14,"body":"a firefighter nor fire engineer."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1454.65,"endTime":1456.27,"body":"In many places, you"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1454.65,"endTime":1456.27,"body":"will be one of them."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1456.36,"endTime":1459.45,"body":"And I congratulate these"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1456.36,"endTime":1459.45,"body":"places, but in most cases"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1459.45,"endTime":1460.29,"body":"you are neither of them."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1460.38,"endTime":1461.58,"body":"You're a politician"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1460.38,"endTime":1461.58,"body":"or something."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1462.27,"endTime":1466.08,"body":"And then all your knowledge"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1462.27,"endTime":1466.08,"body":"comes from the advisers."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1467.235,"endTime":1469.725,"body":"And, this can lean to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1467.235,"endTime":1469.725,"body":"one side to another side"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1470.085,"endTime":1471.645,"body":"and it's very difficult."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1471.695,"endTime":1477.175,"body":"How we get to this, thought out"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1471.695,"endTime":1477.175,"body":"objective of which buildings are"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1477.175,"endTime":1480.955,"body":"due to stand, which buildings"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1477.175,"endTime":1480.955,"body":"are due to fail, which buildings"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1480.955,"endTime":1482.965,"body":"are just allow people"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1482.965,"endTime":1485.455,"body":"to escape and how we implement"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1485.465,"endTime":1487.385,"body":"this risk levels in a way."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1487.415,"endTime":1487.925,"body":"We're in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1487.925,"endTime":1489.095,"body":"objective area."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1489.555,"endTime":1490.595,"body":"If the objective"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1490.61,"endTime":1494.85,"body":"is, not sharp, not really clear."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1495.27,"endTime":1496.688,"body":"How do you design right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1497.056,"endTime":1497.416,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1497.516,"endTime":1498.876,"body":"I love the questions."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1498.876,"endTime":1501.336,"body":"That again, you raised"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1498.876,"endTime":1501.336,"body":"multiple good questions."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1501.396,"endTime":1504.806,"body":"I'll try to answer from"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1501.396,"endTime":1504.806,"body":"different perspectives."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1505.526,"endTime":1509.446,"body":"Design is never"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1505.526,"endTime":1509.446,"body":"done in a vacuum."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1509.896,"endTime":1510.196,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1510.196,"endTime":1514.096,"body":"So when we come to do the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1510.196,"endTime":1514.096,"body":"design, it is within a specific"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1514.096,"endTime":1517.786,"body":"jurisdiction and there are"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1514.096,"endTime":1517.786,"body":"codes and standards and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1517.786,"endTime":1518.746,"body":"there's a reason for that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1518.776,"endTime":1524.086,"body":"When you look at the process of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1518.776,"endTime":1524.086,"body":"how those codes and guidances"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1524.086,"endTime":1528.526,"body":"are put together, you see all"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1524.086,"endTime":1528.526,"body":"these stakeholders coming to the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1528.526,"endTime":1531.616,"body":"table and having the discussion,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1528.526,"endTime":1531.616,"body":"because that should happen."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1531.956,"endTime":1533.346,"body":"That's absolutely right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1534.606,"endTime":1538.716,"body":"Each of these stakeholders"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1534.606,"endTime":1538.716,"body":"has this perspective that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1538.746,"endTime":1540.286,"body":"relevant  and valuable."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1540.826,"endTime":1544.176,"body":"And it's important to have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1540.826,"endTime":1544.176,"body":"those dialogues so that they"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1544.176,"endTime":1545.346,"body":"are explicit about that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1545.406,"endTime":1549.306,"body":"And for fire, just having the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1545.406,"endTime":1549.306,"body":"question is very important."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1549.786,"endTime":1553.926,"body":"What, one of the things I'm"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1549.786,"endTime":1553.926,"body":"hoping to highlight as no"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1553.926,"endTime":1558.066,"body":"one asks that question of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1553.926,"endTime":1558.066,"body":"what the objective is, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1558.486,"endTime":1561.486,"body":"You are doing certain"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1558.486,"endTime":1561.486,"body":"things in the code and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1561.486,"endTime":1563.556,"body":"there's a presumption"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1561.486,"endTime":1563.556,"body":"of the level of safety."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1563.556,"endTime":1564.906,"body":"And certainly"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1563.556,"endTime":1564.906,"body":"there's a level of."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1565.761,"endTime":1567.801,"body":"Certainly for the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1565.761,"endTime":1567.801,"body":"more common buildings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1568.161,"endTime":1572.101,"body":"But the question is when you're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1568.161,"endTime":1572.101,"body":"looking at these events that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1572.101,"endTime":1576.571,"body":"might be rare, but really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1572.101,"endTime":1576.571,"body":"high impact, what is the right"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1576.601,"endTime":1577.741,"body":"way of dealing with them?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1577.741,"endTime":1580.061,"body":"So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1577.741,"endTime":1580.061,"body":"important to keep in mind."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1580.481,"endTime":1583.451,"body":"And then I'm going to give"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1580.481,"endTime":1583.451,"body":"you two examples of where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1583.631,"endTime":1586.991,"body":"the process has worked well,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1583.631,"endTime":1586.991,"body":"or we have good examples."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1586.991,"endTime":1592.131,"body":"One is, several years ago, a lot"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1586.991,"endTime":1592.131,"body":"of collaborative work that was"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1592.521,"endTime":1596.841,"body":"included, NIST included UL and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1592.521,"endTime":1596.841,"body":"clip a lot of fire departments."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1597.051,"endTime":1598.911,"body":"I know New York was involved."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1598.911,"endTime":1600.891,"body":"Chicago Fire Department"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1598.911,"endTime":1600.891,"body":"was involved."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1601.371,"endTime":1602.571,"body":"They did a lot of testing."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1602.601,"endTime":1607.881,"body":"And the goal here was to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1602.601,"endTime":1607.881,"body":"bring the fire science into"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1607.881,"endTime":1611.331,"body":"the firefighting process"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1607.881,"endTime":1611.331,"body":"and see if the firefighting"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1611.631,"endTime":1614.781,"body":"tactics could be improved"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1611.631,"endTime":1614.781,"body":"in a way that allowed for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1614.781,"endTime":1616.791,"body":"better, safer firefighting."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1616.971,"endTime":1617.951,"body":"So it's better for."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1618.831,"endTime":1621.531,"body":"Potential victims for occupy"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1618.831,"endTime":1621.531,"body":"for occupants of a building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1621.561,"endTime":1625.371,"body":"and for the firefighters and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1621.561,"endTime":1625.371,"body":"that collaborative process"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1625.371,"endTime":1629.511,"body":"resulted in improvements in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1625.371,"endTime":1629.511,"body":"how people fight fires today."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1629.871,"endTime":1631.131,"body":"And that's the good mother."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1631.401,"endTime":1634.011,"body":"These discussions need"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1631.401,"endTime":1634.011,"body":"to have everyone in them."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1634.701,"endTime":1638.947,"body":"Bringing this discussion closer"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1634.701,"endTime":1638.947,"body":"to the question of performance"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1638.947,"endTime":1640.567,"body":"of buildings in the fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1640.777,"endTime":1642.997,"body":"We do have standards"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1640.777,"endTime":1642.997,"body":"that speak to that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1642.997,"endTime":1648.037,"body":"So for example, in, in the U"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1642.997,"endTime":1648.037,"body":"S uh, ASC7, which is American"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1648.037,"endTime":1651.067,"body":"Society of Civil Engineers,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1648.037,"endTime":1651.067,"body":"it's a document that talks"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1651.067,"endTime":1652.597,"body":"about loading on buildings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1653.137,"endTime":1656.317,"body":"There's an appendix E that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1653.137,"endTime":1656.317,"body":"explicitly talks about"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1656.317,"endTime":1661.357,"body":"performance space designed for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1656.317,"endTime":1661.357,"body":"structures for fire, and it"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1661.357,"endTime":1662.877,"body":"talks about the objective and."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1664.367,"endTime":1668.557,"body":"At a bare minimum, there"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1664.367,"endTime":1668.557,"body":"is people have to be able"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1668.557,"endTime":1673.027,"body":"to evacuate the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1668.557,"endTime":1673.027,"body":"safety with a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1673.147,"endTime":1674.677,"body":"safety factor on that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1675.097,"endTime":1677.857,"body":"And then they might, and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1675.097,"endTime":1677.857,"body":"then you can have improved"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1677.857,"endTime":1680.587,"body":"performance objectives"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1677.857,"endTime":1680.587,"body":"where the building survives"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1680.587,"endTime":1681.697,"body":"a fire, for example,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1681.82,"endTime":1683.08,"body":"And who decides, if you go into"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1683.102,"endTime":1685.082,"body":"The process"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1683.102,"endTime":1685.082,"body":"always needs an approval."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1685.082,"endTime":1688.412,"body":"So you would have the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1685.082,"endTime":1688.412,"body":"authority having jurisdiction."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1688.412,"endTime":1690.122,"body":"So it could be a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1688.412,"endTime":1690.122,"body":"building department."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1690.122,"endTime":1692.612,"body":"Sometimes it could be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1690.122,"endTime":1692.612,"body":"a fire department that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1692.762,"endTime":1693.992,"body":"makes that decision."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1694.052,"endTime":1695.422,"body":"And that's a discussion, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1695.422,"endTime":1697.372,"body":"So you need to make sure"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1695.422,"endTime":1697.372,"body":"that they understand the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1697.372,"endTime":1701.362,"body":"pieces, but an important"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1697.372,"endTime":1701.362,"body":"part of this process is."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1702.352,"endTime":1703.912,"body":"Third party, peer reviews."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1703.942,"endTime":1707.332,"body":"Because if you sit from, if you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1703.942,"endTime":1707.332,"body":"look at it from a perspective"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1707.392,"endTime":1710.032,"body":"of a department of building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1707.392,"endTime":1710.032,"body":"or the fire department,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1710.962,"endTime":1715.192,"body":"they don't necessarily have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1710.962,"endTime":1715.192,"body":"in-house expertise to deal"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1715.192,"endTime":1718.702,"body":"with all the complexities that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1715.192,"endTime":1718.702,"body":"could be and to a building,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1718.912,"endTime":1720.232,"body":"they are infinite, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1720.592,"endTime":1724.412,"body":"No one department, no one"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1720.592,"endTime":1724.412,"body":"person has the answers, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1724.742,"endTime":1727.742,"body":"So at the same time, they"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1724.742,"endTime":1727.742,"body":"need to be able to make"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1727.742,"endTime":1729.092,"body":"decisions that are safe."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1729.562,"endTime":1734.702,"body":"And there is definitely a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1729.562,"endTime":1734.702,"body":"healthy level of skepticism"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1734.702,"endTime":1737.732,"body":"that should be there regarding"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1734.702,"endTime":1737.732,"body":"the design team where, okay."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1737.732,"endTime":1740.612,"body":"You are the design team,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1737.732,"endTime":1740.612,"body":"but is there any pressure"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1740.642,"endTime":1744.302,"body":"on you to do something that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1740.642,"endTime":1744.302,"body":"has an economic value, but"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1744.302,"endTime":1745.982,"body":"maybe compromise the safety?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1746.222,"endTime":1748.292,"body":"That is the job of the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1746.222,"endTime":1748.292,"body":"department is building to be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1748.292,"endTime":1749.522,"body":"looking at those questions."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1749.572,"endTime":1752.722,"body":"And so I think in places"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1749.572,"endTime":1752.722,"body":"like this, bringing."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1753.562,"endTime":1757.392,"body":"Third party experts from"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1753.562,"endTime":1757.392,"body":"outside who have no interest"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1757.542,"endTime":1759.162,"body":"in a project per se."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1759.162,"endTime":1762.372,"body":"So they're not swayed by,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1759.162,"endTime":1762.372,"body":"let's say commercial interests,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1762.672,"endTime":1766.302,"body":"but they have that expertise"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1762.672,"endTime":1766.302,"body":"could really help the process."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1766.332,"endTime":1768.942,"body":"That's how seismic"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1766.332,"endTime":1768.942,"body":"performance-based design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1768.942,"endTime":1771.852,"body":"has been done in the U S"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1768.942,"endTime":1771.852,"body":"and I'm sure in there stuff"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1771.852,"endTime":1774.932,"body":"that world for many years,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1771.852,"endTime":1774.932,"body":"and it's a process that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1775.472,"endTime":1778.602,"body":"that allows people to come"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1775.472,"endTime":1778.602,"body":"to a safe solution that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1779.252,"endTime":1779.492,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1779.865,"endTime":1781.605,"body":"Yeah, I think having discussions"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1781.605,"endTime":1784.095,"body":"is probably the best way."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1784.095,"endTime":1788.465,"body":"I'm just, I'm really terrified"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1784.095,"endTime":1788.465,"body":"with some of these discussions"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1788.465,"endTime":1791.745,"body":"where, economic benefit"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1788.465,"endTime":1791.745,"body":"or short-term benefit is."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1792.295,"endTime":1795.425,"body":"That's the objective of some"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1792.295,"endTime":1795.425,"body":"stakeholders to kill the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1795.425,"endTime":1796.625,"body":"objectives of the other ones."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1796.625,"endTime":1800.345,"body":"And this is when it usually"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1796.625,"endTime":1800.345,"body":"goes and goes horrible."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1800.532,"endTime":1802.872,"body":"Just let me"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1800.532,"endTime":1802.872,"body":"hide at something here."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1803.652,"endTime":1807.762,"body":"In that process, I'm describing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1803.652,"endTime":1807.762,"body":"the perspective from an"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1807.762,"endTime":1809.052,"body":"authority that has to approve."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1809.052,"endTime":1810.582,"body":"They always have that concern."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1810.582,"endTime":1813.012,"body":"And again, you have to have that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1810.582,"endTime":1813.012,"body":"concern from that perspective."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1813.522,"endTime":1816.372,"body":"If you come to us as"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1813.522,"endTime":1816.372,"body":"engineers, for example,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1816.402,"endTime":1821.002,"body":"that's our given the task"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1816.402,"endTime":1821.002,"body":"of life safety, essentially."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1821.472,"endTime":1825.462,"body":"I see us as in the same"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1821.472,"endTime":1825.462,"body":"function as a doctor has."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1825.822,"endTime":1830.982,"body":"So your job is to do"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1825.822,"endTime":1830.982,"body":"something that is safe."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1831.492,"endTime":1835.632,"body":"Are there doctors out there"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1831.492,"endTime":1835.632,"body":"that might make decisions that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1835.632,"endTime":1838.962,"body":"are not right and influenced"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1835.632,"endTime":1838.962,"body":"by financial interest?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1839.622,"endTime":1840.552,"body":"Yes, there are."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1841.062,"endTime":1844.062,"body":"But that would be also"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1841.062,"endTime":1844.062,"body":"a betrayal of their,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1844.23,"endTime":1844.53,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1844.667,"endTime":1845.417,"body":"know,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1844.667,"endTime":1845.417,"body":"there is enough of what"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1845.417,"endTime":1846.077,"body":"they're doing, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1846.257,"endTime":1851.267,"body":"Engineers, good engineers would"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1846.257,"endTime":1851.267,"body":"never compromise safety because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1851.327,"endTime":1853.897,"body":"of, because of something else."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1854.197,"endTime":1857.107,"body":"Our job is to do a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1854.197,"endTime":1857.107,"body":"design that's reasonably."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1858.277,"endTime":1859.327,"body":"And safe, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1859.327,"endTime":1862.357,"body":"So you don't want to waste"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1859.327,"endTime":1862.357,"body":"resources where it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1862.357,"endTime":1866.497,"body":"provide, additional benefits,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1862.357,"endTime":1866.497,"body":"but providing that baseline"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1866.497,"endTime":1870.367,"body":"level of safety is an absolutely"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1866.497,"endTime":1870.367,"body":"a part of the job and for an"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1870.367,"endTime":1872.917,"body":"engineer to not do that around"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1870.367,"endTime":1872.917,"body":"an architect or a safety"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1872.917,"endTime":1876.967,"body":"official, not that it would"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1872.917,"endTime":1876.967,"body":"never happen, but it's something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1876.967,"endTime":1879.547,"body":"that's obviously against"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1876.967,"endTime":1879.547,"body":"ethics and laws and all that."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1880.082,"endTime":1880.292,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1880.394,"endTime":1880.694,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1880.694,"endTime":1883.574,"body":"Let's move away from"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1880.694,"endTime":1883.574,"body":"objectives for w for a while."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1883.994,"endTime":1884.834,"body":"In one"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1884.834,"endTime":1886.724,"body":"of your talks you have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1886.724,"endTime":1887.654,"body":"mentioned something that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1887.734,"endTime":1888.994,"body":"took my interests."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1889.534,"endTime":1891.754,"body":"And it may be the reason"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1891.754,"endTime":1894.064,"body":"why I am talking about"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1891.754,"endTime":1894.064,"body":"firefighter safety with the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1894.064,"endTime":1895.084,"body":"structural fire engineer."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1895.564,"endTime":1898.764,"body":"And, this was the concept of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1895.564,"endTime":1898.764,"body":"how the decisions shape the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1898.764,"endTime":1903.204,"body":"firefighting context, like"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1898.764,"endTime":1903.204,"body":"design decisions, because, The"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1903.204,"endTime":1905.604,"body":"way, how we build the buildings"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1903.204,"endTime":1905.604,"body":"will determine the way, how the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1905.604,"endTime":1906.684,"body":"fire can be fought in there."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1907.014,"endTime":1909.414,"body":"You mentioned the word"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1907.014,"endTime":1909.414,"body":"battleground, building is the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1909.414,"endTime":1910.704,"body":"battleground for the fire."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1911.004,"endTime":1915.594,"body":"Either fire emerges in it and"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1911.004,"endTime":1915.594,"body":"if everything plays right, the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1915.594,"endTime":1918.474,"body":"battleground is in favor of the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1915.594,"endTime":1918.474,"body":"firefighters and can help them."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1918.984,"endTime":1922.194,"body":"If we take some"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1918.984,"endTime":1922.194,"body":"decisions, we can make the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1922.194,"endTime":1926.244,"body":"battleground tougher for"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1922.194,"endTime":1926.244,"body":"the firefighters and, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1926.634,"endTime":1929.349,"body":"environment is pacing at an"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1929.349,"endTime":1930.489,"body":"insane speed with"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1930.489,"endTime":1933.069,"body":"new technologies, new"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1930.489,"endTime":1933.069,"body":"challenges that were"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1933.069,"endTime":1934.569,"body":"not there 30 years ago."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1934.959,"endTime":1937.839,"body":"For start of this part of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1934.959,"endTime":1937.839,"body":"the interview, from your"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1937.839,"endTime":1941.769,"body":"perspective, what are the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1937.839,"endTime":1941.769,"body":"key aspects in which the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1941.769,"endTime":1945.879,"body":"design truly does influence"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1941.769,"endTime":1945.879,"body":"the firefighting context?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1946.329,"endTime":1947.859,"body":"In what way?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1948.309,"endTime":1949.929,"body":"Us designing the building?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1951.219,"endTime":1954.549,"body":"outcome in terms of how the fire"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":1951.219,"endTime":1954.549,"body":"can be fought into the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1954.806,"endTime":1957.866,"body":"There are a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1954.806,"endTime":1957.866,"body":"few factors and some of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1957.866,"endTime":1962.546,"body":"this I've hit on before, but"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1957.866,"endTime":1962.546,"body":"starting from maybe level"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1962.546,"endTime":1967.526,"body":"of importance, I would say"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1962.546,"endTime":1967.526,"body":"a building stability because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1967.556,"endTime":1969.116,"body":"that's the context, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1969.861,"endTime":1973.371,"body":"And that's something where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1969.861,"endTime":1973.371,"body":"it's not just about building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1973.371,"endTime":1976.371,"body":"stability, but knowledge"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1973.371,"endTime":1976.371,"body":"of building stability."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1976.401,"endTime":1979.671,"body":"So let's say if you have a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1976.401,"endTime":1979.671,"body":"building and maybe the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1979.761,"endTime":1983.461,"body":"ends up standing for the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1979.761,"endTime":1983.461,"body":"duration, but if you don't"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1983.461,"endTime":1987.271,"body":"know that, and that question,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1983.461,"endTime":1987.271,"body":"mark is there, you have to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1987.271,"endTime":1988.501,"body":"make other decisions, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1988.501,"endTime":1991.111,"body":"Because again, these are"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1988.501,"endTime":1991.111,"body":"questions of life safety."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1991.161,"endTime":1994.431,"body":"Quantified knowledge of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1991.161,"endTime":1994.431,"body":"building stability is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1994.431,"endTime":1995.871,"body":"certainly one of those things."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1996.141,"endTime":1999.261,"body":"There are rules of thumb"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1996.141,"endTime":1999.261,"body":"for firefighters for that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1999.741,"endTime":2003.281,"body":"But if you look at these more"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":1999.741,"endTime":2003.281,"body":"complex buildings, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2003.281,"endTime":2006.281,"body":"those rules of thumb might"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2003.281,"endTime":2006.281,"body":"not be really applicable."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2006.641,"endTime":2010.421,"body":"So being able to know, okay, if"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2006.641,"endTime":2010.421,"body":"I go into this building and for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2010.421,"endTime":2014.666,"body":"this type of fire The building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2010.421,"endTime":2014.666,"body":"will stand or if that's not"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2014.666,"endTime":2016.406,"body":"the case, I'll have 60 minutes."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2016.406,"endTime":2017.546,"body":"I have 30 minutes."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2017.546,"endTime":2019.886,"body":"I have 90 minutes, but"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2017.546,"endTime":2019.886,"body":"based on an analysis,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2020.246,"endTime":2021.476,"body":"I think that would be."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2021.723,"endTime":2023.143,"body":"And going into the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2023.143,"endTime":2024.373,"body":"stability a little  deeper."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2024.643,"endTime":2024.763,"body":"It's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2024.763,"endTime":2025.783,"body":"also not how long the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2025.783,"endTime":2029.263,"body":"building will stand, but how"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2025.783,"endTime":2029.263,"body":"much a warning time it will"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2029.263,"endTime":2032.143,"body":"give to the firefighters"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2029.263,"endTime":2032.143,"body":"before it collapses."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2032.503,"endTime":2035.143,"body":"So, this advanced, uh, it"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2032.503,"endTime":2035.143,"body":"was also something from"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2035.143,"endTime":2038.773,"body":"your talks today that really"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2035.143,"endTime":2038.773,"body":"resonated with me that we just."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2039.598,"endTime":2043.218,"body":"Just need the 90 minutes"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2039.598,"endTime":2043.218,"body":"of stability because"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2043.218,"endTime":2043.968,"body":"there is no timer."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2044.358,"endTime":2047.078,"body":"The firefighter doesn't know if"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2044.358,"endTime":2047.078,"body":"it's 89th minute or something."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2047.718,"endTime":2052.788,"body":"It's also in the matter that the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2047.718,"endTime":2052.788,"body":"failure is not like immediate,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2052.848,"endTime":2054.618,"body":"it's a progressive collapse."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2054.618,"endTime":2057.648,"body":"For example, that gives a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2054.618,"endTime":2057.648,"body":"warning that people can exit."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2057.728,"endTime":2058.238,"body":"Correct."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2058.568,"endTime":2062.588,"body":"So that's one context building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2058.568,"endTime":2062.588,"body":"stability related to that, which"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2062.588,"endTime":2064.118,"body":"we talked about is evacuate."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2064.868,"endTime":2067.058,"body":"You need to be able"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2064.868,"endTime":2067.058,"body":"to get people out of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2067.058,"endTime":2068.048,"body":"the building safely."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2068.048,"endTime":2070.808,"body":"And if there's a question"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2068.048,"endTime":2070.808,"body":"there, then the firefighters"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2070.808,"endTime":2074.648,"body":"will put their lives at risk"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2070.808,"endTime":2074.648,"body":"to do whatever they can."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2074.648,"endTime":2075.218,"body":"They're right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2075.618,"endTime":2078.438,"body":"And right here, again,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2075.618,"endTime":2078.438,"body":"there's interplay between"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2078.438,"endTime":2082.908,"body":"how these designs are, what"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2078.438,"endTime":2082.908,"body":"you have regarding how quick"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2082.938,"endTime":2086.058,"body":"it is to evacuate people"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2082.938,"endTime":2086.058,"body":"or how long it takes, can"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2086.058,"endTime":2088.818,"body":"have an impact on building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2086.058,"endTime":2088.818,"body":"stability and vice versa."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2089.118,"endTime":2091.168,"body":"So those are two overarching"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2091.216,"endTime":2092.336,"body":"So from a designer"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2092.336,"endTime":2095.036,"body":"perspective, you mean the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2092.336,"endTime":2095.036,"body":"stability in terms of how the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2095.036,"endTime":2097.556,"body":"structure is designed, was"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2095.036,"endTime":2097.556,"body":"the load bearing capacity."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2097.826,"endTime":2101.416,"body":"What are the paths to spread"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2097.826,"endTime":2101.416,"body":"the loads and stuff like that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2101.426,"endTime":2105.626,"body":"was the structural protection"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2101.426,"endTime":2105.626,"body":"of the critical elements from"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2105.626,"endTime":2110.606,"body":"the fire and from the egress is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2105.626,"endTime":2110.606,"body":"how we shape the pathways or how"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2111.333,"endTime":2112.083,"body":"all of that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2112.083,"endTime":2113.493,"body":"So let's say for the evacuation."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2113.493,"endTime":2113.583,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2114.393,"endTime":2116.343,"body":"Even explicitly analyzing that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2116.343,"endTime":2119.843,"body":"So if you look at a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2116.343,"endTime":2119.843,"body":"what we do in the building,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2119.943,"endTime":2122.643,"body":"really the goal of the code,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2119.943,"endTime":2122.643,"body":"the first goal of the code"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2122.643,"endTime":2128.583,"body":"is to get people from the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2122.643,"endTime":2128.583,"body":"immediate area next to the fire,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2128.733,"endTime":2132.393,"body":"to some area that's somewhat"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2128.733,"endTime":2132.393,"body":"protected by barriers or roles."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2132.443,"endTime":2135.773,"body":"That's something that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2132.443,"endTime":2135.773,"body":"happens in seconds and in."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2137.363,"endTime":2140.723,"body":"When you get there, whether"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2137.363,"endTime":2140.723,"body":"or now the bill people can"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2140.723,"endTime":2143.633,"body":"actually get out of the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2140.723,"endTime":2143.633,"body":"building or not is not an"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2143.633,"endTime":2145.463,"body":"explicit part of the code."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2145.463,"endTime":2146.933,"body":"You don't actually analyze that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2146.983,"endTime":2147.703,"body":"But we could."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2148.213,"endTime":2148.543,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2148.573,"endTime":2152.793,"body":"And it could be really"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2148.573,"endTime":2152.793,"body":"relevant  even within a floor."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2153.303,"endTime":2157.803,"body":"The provision, the provisions of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2153.303,"endTime":2157.803,"body":"the code are still prescriptive."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2157.803,"endTime":2162.259,"body":"So the code tells you have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2157.803,"endTime":2162.259,"body":"these many path to your"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2162.409,"endTime":2165.579,"body":"egress  so have I say to two"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2162.409,"endTime":2165.579,"body":"independent means, then they"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2165.579,"endTime":2168.429,"body":"might have to be separated,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2165.579,"endTime":2168.429,"body":"but by this much, but you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2168.429,"endTime":2172.179,"body":"don't actually analyze, what's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2168.429,"endTime":2172.179,"body":"going to happen in a real fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2172.509,"endTime":2175.269,"body":"And from analysis, we"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2172.509,"endTime":2175.269,"body":"know that you might have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2175.629,"endTime":2177.129,"body":"code compliant buildings."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2177.129,"endTime":2179.529,"body":"And at the same time, if"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2177.129,"endTime":2179.529,"body":"there's a fire, just because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2179.529,"endTime":2180.659,"body":"of the unique design of the."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2181.494,"endTime":2183.304,"body":"Not everyone might"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2181.494,"endTime":2183.304,"body":"get out to safety."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2183.304,"endTime":2185.824,"body":"So the problem is these"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2183.304,"endTime":2185.824,"body":"Arctic and not explicit"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2185.824,"endTime":2186.904,"body":"goals of the design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2186.934,"endTime":2188.194,"body":"They're implicit."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2188.224,"endTime":2190.324,"body":"We do things to minimize"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2188.224,"endTime":2190.324,"body":"the risks, but we don't"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2190.444,"endTime":2191.854,"body":"explicitly designed for them."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2192.184,"endTime":2195.364,"body":"So that's evacuation and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2192.184,"endTime":2195.364,"body":"building safety, but then"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2195.454,"endTime":2196.724,"body":"you look at the other pieces."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2197.704,"endTime":2200.374,"body":"Certainly the nature"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2197.704,"endTime":2200.374,"body":"and spread off the fire"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2200.494,"endTime":2201.694,"body":"has an impact, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2201.724,"endTime":2204.604,"body":"And that's, again, something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2201.724,"endTime":2204.604,"body":"that is impacted by how we"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2204.604,"endTime":2208.354,"body":"design the building in terms"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2204.604,"endTime":2208.354,"body":"of the materials that we use,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2208.624,"endTime":2211.864,"body":"the layout of the building,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2208.624,"endTime":2211.864,"body":"an open building versus a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2211.864,"endTime":2213.244,"body":"compartmentalized building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2213.274,"endTime":2216.304,"body":"And I'm not saying you have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2213.274,"endTime":2216.304,"body":"to do one versus the other."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2216.304,"endTime":2220.144,"body":"It's just the design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2216.304,"endTime":2220.144,"body":"decisions have an impact."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2220.397,"endTime":2222.227,"body":"You need to know what will"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2222.227,"endTime":2224.917,"body":"happen in the building in terms"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2222.227,"endTime":2224.917,"body":"of the course of the fire."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2225.307,"endTime":2228.037,"body":"And I don't know if it's a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2225.307,"endTime":2228.037,"body":"thing but in Europe we will."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2228.217,"endTime":2231.827,"body":"We are also, for all open plan"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2228.217,"endTime":2231.827,"body":"compartments, we're using this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2231.827,"endTime":2233.827,"body":"traveling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2231.827,"endTime":2233.827,"body":"fire methodology to determine"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2234.657,"endTime":2236.907,"body":"plenty of possible scenarios"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2236.937,"endTime":2239.847,"body":"in a building to see"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2236.937,"endTime":2239.847,"body":"how they will affect the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2239.847,"endTime":2241.497,"body":"structure of the building."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2241.987,"endTime":2244.327,"body":"And it's something we"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2241.987,"endTime":2244.327,"body":"start to truly consider."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2244.327,"endTime":2245.197,"body":"And it was also a big,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2245.327,"endTime":2246.147,"body":"not travelling fires"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2246.167,"endTime":2248.127,"body":"because that's new, but this"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2248.157,"endTime":2250.947,"body":"compartment fire behavior"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2248.157,"endTime":2250.947,"body":"was also a significant"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2250.947,"endTime":2251.877,"body":"part of Eurocodes."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2252.387,"endTime":2254.367,"body":"And it was one of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2252.387,"endTime":2254.367,"body":"the big, funding"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2254.367,"endTime":2255.537,"body":"things in the Eurocodes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2256.047,"endTime":2256.677,"body":"There is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2256.677,"endTime":2256.797,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2256.797,"endTime":2258.207,"body":"standard"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2256.797,"endTime":2258.207,"body":"fires, curves but there"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2258.207,"endTime":2259.287,"body":"are localized fires that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2259.287,"endTime":2260.427,"body":"you can calculate with it."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2261.087,"endTime":2264.507,"body":"And you take this"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2261.087,"endTime":2264.507,"body":"compartment, fire dynamics"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2264.507,"endTime":2266.847,"body":"into equation, and as an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2266.847,"endTime":2269.882,"body":"engineer,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2266.847,"endTime":2269.882,"body":"you truly craft that if you like"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2269.882,"endTime":2271.652,"body":"it or not, but shaping your"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2271.652,"endTime":2274.022,"body":"building, you're shaping"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2271.652,"endTime":2274.022,"body":"the possible fire outcomes."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2274.072,"endTime":2274.612,"body":"So, okay."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2274.612,"endTime":2276.852,"body":"The third thing is the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2274.612,"endTime":2276.852,"body":"nature and spell of fire?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2277.392,"endTime":2278.312,"body":"Is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2277.392,"endTime":2278.312,"body":"there a fourth thing?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2278.694,"endTime":2279.294,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2279.324,"endTime":2281.334,"body":"I can add, there are a few"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2279.324,"endTime":2281.334,"body":"more things that are really"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2281.532,"endTime":2281.952,"body":"let's go."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2282.132,"endTime":2282.432,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2282.984,"endTime":2286.084,"body":"I think another"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2282.984,"endTime":2286.084,"body":"factor is really how common"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2286.589,"endTime":2288.779,"body":"or how familiar a fire is."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2289.109,"endTime":2292.389,"body":"So if you think about that,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2289.109,"endTime":2292.389,"body":"when you have put yourself"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2292.419,"endTime":2294.699,"body":"in the shoe of a firefighter"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2292.419,"endTime":2294.699,"body":"and you have to make"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2294.699,"endTime":2298.569,"body":"decisions, these decisions"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2294.699,"endTime":2298.569,"body":"are guided by your training"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2299.409,"endTime":2301.449,"body":"or by your past experience."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2301.929,"endTime":2305.199,"body":"And those are heavily"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2301.929,"endTime":2305.199,"body":"guided by the more"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2305.199,"endTime":2306.549,"body":"frequent fires that we see."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2306.599,"endTime":2312.329,"body":"But if you come to it, how"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2306.599,"endTime":2312.329,"body":"many really large, uncontrolled"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2312.329,"endTime":2314.909,"body":"or hard to control fires"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2312.329,"endTime":2314.909,"body":"in these larger complex"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2314.909,"endTime":2316.479,"body":"buildings in your lifetime."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2316.509,"endTime":2318.279,"body":"And how many of them do"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2316.509,"endTime":2318.279,"body":"you see  to be able to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2318.279,"endTime":2319.509,"body":"generalize from them?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2320.079,"endTime":2321.699,"body":"Luckily, not a lot."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2322.089,"endTime":2325.539,"body":"And that goes back to, we're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2322.089,"endTime":2325.539,"body":"doing a great job in terms"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2325.539,"endTime":2329.109,"body":"of doing other things  with,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2325.539,"endTime":2329.109,"body":"with fire safety measures,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2329.109,"endTime":2331.689,"body":"with sprinklers and so on"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2329.109,"endTime":2331.689,"body":"to really mitigate the risk."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2331.769,"endTime":2335.099,"body":"But it also means that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2331.769,"endTime":2335.099,"body":"when you have a fire"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2335.099,"endTime":2335.939,"body":"that looks different."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2336.779,"endTime":2338.939,"body":"You have less things to go by."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2339.509,"endTime":2343.739,"body":"And so that's where doing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2339.509,"endTime":2343.739,"body":"some of this analysis, doing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2343.739,"endTime":2348.209,"body":"some of this thinking ahead"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2343.739,"endTime":2348.209,"body":"of time, and then seeing how"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2348.209,"endTime":2352.619,"body":"that should impact operations"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2348.209,"endTime":2352.619,"body":"and training of firefighters"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2352.649,"endTime":2353.729,"body":"is really important."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2353.729,"endTime":2357.331,"body":"I think that's one area where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2353.729,"endTime":2357.331,"body":"we could basically cover"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2357.331,"endTime":2360.601,"body":"that gap, which is a good gap"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2357.331,"endTime":2360.601,"body":"that we don't see a lot of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2360.601,"endTime":2361.831,"body":"these large uncontrollable."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2362.671,"endTime":2366.361,"body":"But use what we know and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2362.671,"endTime":2366.361,"body":"model these things and play"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2366.361,"endTime":2367.531,"body":"out different scenarios."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2367.531,"endTime":2369.871,"body":"And it's not something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2367.531,"endTime":2369.871,"body":"that just engineers do."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2369.871,"endTime":2372.601,"body":"It should be where there,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2369.871,"endTime":2372.601,"body":"and the firefighters are"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2372.601,"endTime":2376.231,"body":"there and we're working"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2372.601,"endTime":2376.231,"body":"together to see this tactic"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2376.261,"endTime":2377.551,"body":"versus a different tactic."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2377.581,"endTime":2379.951,"body":"What would be the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2377.581,"endTime":2379.951,"body":"impact on firefighting?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2380.011,"endTime":2383.261,"body":"So I think that's another,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2380.011,"endTime":2383.261,"body":"that's another factor there."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2383.801,"endTime":2387.611,"body":"And if I want to just add"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2383.801,"endTime":2387.611,"body":"one more thing, I think"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2387.611,"endTime":2391.211,"body":"it's the infrastructure of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2387.611,"endTime":2391.211,"body":"the building and how that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2391.271,"endTime":2392.711,"body":"allows for firefighting."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2392.771,"endTime":2394.691,"body":"And again, if you want to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2392.771,"endTime":2394.691,"body":"break it into components,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2395.841,"endTime":2398.391,"body":"how long does it take you to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2395.841,"endTime":2398.391,"body":"get to a place where you can"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2398.391,"endTime":2399.831,"body":"effectively fight a fire?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2400.101,"endTime":2403.191,"body":"So for a lot of these buildings,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2400.101,"endTime":2403.191,"body":"you have to walk up the stairs."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2403.221,"endTime":2405.891,"body":"And so if you put the,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2403.221,"endTime":2405.891,"body":"put yourself in there in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2405.891,"endTime":2408.201,"body":"a firefighter shoe, you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2405.891,"endTime":2408.201,"body":"get to the building, you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2408.201,"endTime":2410.091,"body":"have very heavy equipment."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2410.541,"endTime":2412.821,"body":"Most elevators are shut down."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2412.831,"endTime":2414.591,"body":"Sometimes there's one"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2412.831,"endTime":2414.591,"body":"that you could use."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2414.651,"endTime":2418.551,"body":"That's actually part of the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2414.651,"endTime":2418.551,"body":"discussion, having elevators"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2418.551,"endTime":2420.711,"body":"that you could use to get"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2418.551,"endTime":2420.711,"body":"to the place faster, but."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2421.776,"endTime":2425.406,"body":"By enlarge large, you're walking"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2421.776,"endTime":2425.406,"body":"up the stairs and as you're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2425.406,"endTime":2428.856,"body":"walking up the stairs, 20,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2425.406,"endTime":2428.856,"body":"30, 40 stories, you also have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2428.886,"endTime":2431.706,"body":"people coming down the stairs"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2428.886,"endTime":2431.706,"body":"because they need to get out."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2432.156,"endTime":2435.066,"body":"It might take you 30, 40 minutes"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2432.156,"endTime":2435.066,"body":"to get to the place where you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2435.066,"endTime":2436.536,"body":"can start fighting the fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2436.986,"endTime":2439.656,"body":"That fire looks very"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2436.986,"endTime":2439.656,"body":"different from something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2439.656,"endTime":2442.566,"body":"that you could have gotten"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2439.656,"endTime":2442.566,"body":"to, after five minutes."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2442.896,"endTime":2444.156,"body":"So that's important."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2444.156,"endTime":2447.386,"body":"And then when you get there,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2444.156,"endTime":2447.386,"body":"all the water that you get is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2447.386,"endTime":2448.466,"body":"what you get from your standard."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2449.316,"endTime":2452.316,"body":"And that's, again, that's not"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2449.316,"endTime":2452.316,"body":"explicit to design for that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2452.316,"endTime":2455.226,"body":"scenario, so it could be right."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2455.226,"endTime":2459.036,"body":"So if the design is, for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2455.226,"endTime":2459.036,"body":"example, something that allows"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2459.036,"endTime":2463.926,"body":"you to have enough water where"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2459.036,"endTime":2463.926,"body":"you can fight a fire, that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2464.226,"endTime":2467.436,"body":"involving the entire floor,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2464.226,"endTime":2467.436,"body":"that's better than having a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2467.436,"endTime":2470.626,"body":"small amount of fire  or if"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2467.436,"endTime":2470.626,"body":"you have a building right,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2470.626,"endTime":2474.773,"body":"again, you're confident that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2470.626,"endTime":2474.773,"body":"the building is going to stand."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2474.923,"endTime":2478.383,"body":"And you can assign more"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2474.923,"endTime":2478.383,"body":"people to fighting  the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2478.383,"endTime":2481.323,"body":"fire, as opposed to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2478.383,"endTime":2481.323,"body":"evacuating the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2481.923,"endTime":2486.356,"body":"And so maybe you can even start"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2481.923,"endTime":2486.356,"body":"going to floors adjacent and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2486.386,"endTime":2489.536,"body":"focus on controlling the spread"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2486.386,"endTime":2489.536,"body":"of the fire, and you let this"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2489.536,"endTime":2492.086,"body":"for burn and to the extent"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2489.536,"endTime":2492.086,"body":"that you can make a dent into"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2492.086,"endTime":2495.056,"body":"it and you do, but you don't"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2492.086,"endTime":2495.056,"body":"put yourself out in as much."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2496.121,"endTime":2497.711,"body":"These are things"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2496.121,"endTime":2497.711,"body":"that's really shaped"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2497.741,"endTime":2499.781,"body":"firefighting in a deep way."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2500.589,"endTime":2501.969,"body":"Yeah, if you don't design them,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2501.999,"endTime":2503.559,"body":"they're not going to be used."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2503.639,"endTime":2504.169,"body":"That's the bottom."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2505.079,"endTime":2508.139,"body":"So the five things you've"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2505.079,"endTime":2508.139,"body":"mentioned, structural stability,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2508.349,"endTime":2512.429,"body":"egress and rescue the nature"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2508.349,"endTime":2512.429,"body":"of the fire, spread, closing"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2512.429,"endTime":2516.029,"body":"the knowledge gap between the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2512.429,"endTime":2516.029,"body":"designer and the firefighters"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2516.659,"endTime":2519.869,"body":"and the final one was the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2516.659,"endTime":2519.869,"body":"firefighting infrastructure."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2519.879,"endTime":2523.139,"body":"So these five things are how"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2519.879,"endTime":2523.139,"body":"the designers would shape"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2523.199,"endTime":2524.219,"body":"the firefighting context."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2524.219,"endTime":2525.859,"body":"And I think  it's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2524.219,"endTime":2525.859,"body":"really powerful because"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2525.859,"endTime":2526.329,"body":"there's a lot of."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2527.224,"endTime":2530.044,"body":"In fact in that list"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2527.224,"endTime":2530.044,"body":"that we truly do."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2530.434,"endTime":2533.804,"body":"It's our choices it's, and,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2530.434,"endTime":2533.804,"body":"it should be choice, not"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2533.834,"endTime":2536.474,"body":"just, the default volume"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2533.834,"endTime":2536.474,"body":"that's been placed in a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2536.474,"endTime":2539.534,"body":"place without giving, a good"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2536.474,"endTime":2539.534,"body":"thought, a standpipe in a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2539.534,"endTime":2542.854,"body":"small building, of completely"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2539.534,"endTime":2542.854,"body":"different relevance than a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2542.854,"endTime":2546.604,"body":"standpipe in a skyscraper"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2542.854,"endTime":2546.604,"body":"where there is literally the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2546.604,"endTime":2549.064,"body":"single only way to give water."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2549.204,"endTime":2549.804,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2549.904,"endTime":2552.574,"body":"One more thing that I have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2549.904,"endTime":2552.574,"body":"noted for this is how the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2552.574,"endTime":2553.684,"body":"battle ground has changed."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2554.024,"endTime":2556.804,"body":"I have the feeling that,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2554.024,"endTime":2556.804,"body":"the design is not evolving"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2556.804,"endTime":2560.554,"body":"as quickly as the problems"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2556.804,"endTime":2560.554,"body":"are, , that the codes are very."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2561.529,"endTime":2561.979,"body":"At least in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2561.979,"endTime":2563.599,"body":"Europe,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2561.979,"endTime":2563.599,"body":"in NFPA it's a little"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2563.599,"endTime":2564.319,"body":"bit different."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2564.319,"endTime":2567.319,"body":"And if you get 2000 people"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2564.319,"endTime":2567.319,"body":"to vote on that change, yet,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2567.529,"endTime":2569.549,"body":"it gets implemented very"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2567.529,"endTime":2569.549,"body":"quickly I've been there."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2569.549,"endTime":2572.789,"body":"I've seen that I was highly"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2569.549,"endTime":2572.789,"body":"impressed by the process,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2572.909,"endTime":2576.089,"body":"but,  in general, the codes"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2572.909,"endTime":2576.089,"body":"are very slow in adapting."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2576.659,"endTime":2579.389,"body":"And if you'd take a look"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2576.659,"endTime":2579.389,"body":"at the buildings today"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2579.389,"endTime":2581.429,"body":"and 10 years ago, it's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2579.389,"endTime":2581.429,"body":"a completely different."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2582.389,"endTime":2584.429,"body":"It's different materials."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2584.999,"endTime":2589.559,"body":"It's different, building"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2584.999,"endTime":2589.559,"body":"envelope, the facades have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2589.559,"endTime":2594.119,"body":"changed so much and, uh,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2589.559,"endTime":2594.119,"body":"different ape or tightness,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2594.119,"endTime":2597.629,"body":"for example, that's already"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2594.119,"endTime":2597.629,"body":"something that completely"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2597.629,"endTime":2600.519,"body":"changes the battleground"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2597.629,"endTime":2600.519,"body":"that the whole fire"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2600.519,"endTime":2601.869,"body":"environment in your building."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2602.559,"endTime":2605.109,"body":"And for me, the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2602.559,"endTime":2605.109,"body":"most interesting."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2605.964,"endTime":2609.204,"body":"Is that buildings are"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2605.964,"endTime":2609.204,"body":"small power plants today."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2609.428,"endTime":2612.068,"body":"It's not that you just have a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2609.428,"endTime":2612.068,"body":"few cables to distribute the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2612.068,"endTime":2613.058,"body":"energy among the building."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2613.058,"endTime":2616.071,"body":"Now you want to generate the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2613.058,"endTime":2616.071,"body":"energy on your whole facade,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2616.071,"endTime":2619.071,"body":"and hopefully even store"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2616.071,"endTime":2619.071,"body":"it in the building in some"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2619.221,"endTime":2622.371,"body":"power bank to sell it at the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2619.221,"endTime":2622.371,"body":"bigger price when it's needed."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2622.701,"endTime":2625.521,"body":"And these are recent"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2622.701,"endTime":2625.521,"body":"objectives five years ago, I"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2625.521,"endTime":2626.901,"body":"would not think about this."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2627.321,"endTime":2630.831,"body":"And today I have to consider"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2627.321,"endTime":2630.831,"body":"it in a way in my design."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2630.981,"endTime":2635.031,"body":"Obviously we are talking here"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2630.981,"endTime":2635.031,"body":"about very specific buildings in"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2635.031,"endTime":2637.731,"body":"some of your talks, you'd called"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2635.031,"endTime":2637.731,"body":"them the high impact buildings,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2638.091,"endTime":2640.851,"body":"the ones that are like, it's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2638.091,"endTime":2640.851,"body":"not the buildings that you"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2640.851,"endTime":2643.311,"body":"should go with prescriptive"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2640.851,"endTime":2643.311,"body":"codes for, because it's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2643.311,"endTime":2646.091,"body":"this type of a building that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2643.311,"endTime":2646.091,"body":"really needs to be engineered."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2646.861,"endTime":2650.161,"body":"But the battle ground is"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2646.861,"endTime":2650.161,"body":"changing and it's changing so"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2650.611,"endTime":2653.591,"body":"quickly is how do feel about it?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2653.591,"endTime":2656.021,"body":"Is there a way we"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2653.591,"endTime":2656.021,"body":"can cope with that?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2656.051,"endTime":2659.021,"body":"How we put the firefighter"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2656.051,"endTime":2659.021,"body":"resiliency in this"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2659.021,"endTime":2661.001,"body":"ever-changing landscape?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2661.501,"endTime":2663.391,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2661.501,"endTime":2663.391,"body":"a great question."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2663.841,"endTime":2666.541,"body":"I think the answer is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2663.841,"endTime":2666.541,"body":"performance space design, right?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2666.781,"endTime":2670.411,"body":"Your design has to be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2666.781,"endTime":2670.411,"body":"relevant to your building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2670.441,"endTime":2673.051,"body":"You have to look at the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2670.441,"endTime":2673.051,"body":"consequences that are"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2673.381,"endTime":2674.941,"body":"applicable to your building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2674.971,"endTime":2678.841,"body":"And what is the behavior that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2674.971,"endTime":2678.841,"body":"acceptable from the building"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2679.291,"endTime":2682.711,"body":"in its context, in the place"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2679.291,"endTime":2682.711,"body":"and in the city that it is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2683.281,"endTime":2686.871,"body":"and what that design looks"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2683.281,"endTime":2686.871,"body":"like should be different than."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2687.371,"endTime":2690.701,"body":"Building to building because"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2687.371,"endTime":2690.701,"body":"each of these buildings"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2690.731,"endTime":2692.021,"body":"is a custom design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2692.321,"endTime":2695.771,"body":"When you look at these larger"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2692.321,"endTime":2695.771,"body":"complex buildings, none of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2695.771,"endTime":2696.911,"body":"them is like the other one."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2696.941,"endTime":2699.941,"body":"They have similarities, but"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2696.941,"endTime":2699.941,"body":"there are enough differences"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2699.941,"endTime":2704.561,"body":"where for everything else in the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2699.941,"endTime":2704.561,"body":"design, if you don't take one"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2704.561,"endTime":2707.981,"body":"design and apply it to the other"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2704.561,"endTime":2707.981,"body":"one, we analyze that for fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2708.461,"endTime":2711.651,"body":"It should be the same,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2708.461,"endTime":2711.651,"body":"but it does need, a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2711.651,"endTime":2713.961,"body":"more consciousness or."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2714.931,"endTime":2717.151,"body":"The fact that, okay,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2714.931,"endTime":2717.151,"body":"you do have these risks"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2717.151,"endTime":2718.411,"body":"that are ever changing."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2718.531,"endTime":2722.371,"body":"And that performance-based"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2718.531,"endTime":2722.371,"body":"design is something that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2722.371,"endTime":2726.141,"body":"does allow you to, get to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2722.371,"endTime":2726.141,"body":"design that safer and better."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2726.531,"endTime":2728.631,"body":"And then for everyone"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2726.531,"endTime":2728.631,"body":"who's involved to have that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2728.631,"endTime":2731.681,"body":"conversation, I think there's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2728.631,"endTime":2731.681,"body":"that presumption of fire safety"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2731.681,"endTime":2731.861,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2732.651,"endTime":2736.071,"body":"Fire resistance terminology,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2732.651,"endTime":2736.071,"body":"you get two hours or three"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2736.071,"endTime":2737.721,"body":"hours of fire resistance."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2738.291,"endTime":2740.961,"body":"People look at that and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2738.291,"endTime":2740.961,"body":"generally think, okay,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2740.961,"endTime":2744.081,"body":"that means three hours"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2740.961,"endTime":2744.081,"body":"of standing in a fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2744.741,"endTime":2747.801,"body":"Whereas a, maybe that's actually"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2744.741,"endTime":2747.801,"body":"not okay for a building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2747.831,"endTime":2749.601,"body":"Maybe that shouldn't be"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2747.831,"endTime":2749.601,"body":"acceptable, even if it's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2749.601,"endTime":2754.356,"body":"three hours, but B that's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2749.601,"endTime":2754.356,"body":"that presumption is backed"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2754.356,"endTime":2758.346,"body":"by fact, it depends on"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2754.356,"endTime":2758.346,"body":"scenarios in most cases."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2758.346,"endTime":2759.726,"body":"And I do want to highlight this."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2760.056,"endTime":2763.506,"body":"In most cases, the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2760.056,"endTime":2763.506,"body":"prescriptive design does get"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2763.506,"endTime":2766.596,"body":"your building that is safe."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2766.626,"endTime":2770.556,"body":"And you don't have these"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2766.626,"endTime":2770.556,"body":"frequent massive collapses"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2770.556,"endTime":2771.696,"body":"of buildings and fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2771.726,"endTime":2775.036,"body":"The codes are doing something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2771.726,"endTime":2775.036,"body":"really well, but we need"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2775.036,"endTime":2776.296,"body":"to be conscious that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2777.188,"endTime":2781.298,"body":"Living in ever more complex"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2777.188,"endTime":2781.298,"body":"buildings and ever more"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2781.298,"endTime":2784.388,"body":"complex environments and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2781.298,"endTime":2784.388,"body":"with a risk that is changing."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2784.388,"endTime":2788.138,"body":"And so if we want to have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2784.388,"endTime":2788.138,"body":"resilience and if you want"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2788.138,"endTime":2792.938,"body":"to avoid these low likelihood"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2788.138,"endTime":2792.938,"body":"rare, but high impact"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2792.968,"endTime":2798.038,"body":"scenarios, really the key"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2792.968,"endTime":2798.038,"body":"answer is, to go and explicitly"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2798.038,"endTime":2800.548,"body":"designed for safety, which"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2798.038,"endTime":2800.548,"body":"is performance based design."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2800.801,"endTime":2802.211,"body":"you know,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2800.801,"endTime":2802.211,"body":"one of the interviews with, with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2802.211,"endTime":2805.651,"body":"Benjamin Ralph i've, actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2802.211,"endTime":2805.651,"body":"praised that codes are good."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2805.651,"endTime":2808.481,"body":"And for a second, I thought"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2805.651,"endTime":2808.481,"body":"this is the end of my career"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2808.481,"endTime":2810.131,"body":"as an engineer after 11 years."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2810.861,"endTime":2813.181,"body":"Of doing performance based"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2810.861,"endTime":2813.181,"body":"engineer I've praised"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2813.201,"endTime":2814.221,"body":"codes for being great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2814.701,"endTime":2819.491,"body":"It was in the context of rapid,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2814.701,"endTime":2819.491,"body":"iterations of building design"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2820.001,"endTime":2823.651,"body":"in which the full PBD  it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2820.001,"endTime":2823.651,"body":"just impossible to apply."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2824.191,"endTime":2825.151,"body":"When you want to have a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2825.151,"endTime":2827.901,"body":"hundred iterations of a"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2825.151,"endTime":2827.901,"body":"building you need some"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2827.931,"endTime":2829.401,"body":"other ways to manage that."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2829.431,"endTime":2834.341,"body":"But, I agree that a smart"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2829.431,"endTime":2834.341,"body":"performance-based engineering."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2834.841,"endTime":2838.981,"body":"Just give a ring to the name,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2834.841,"endTime":2838.981,"body":"performance-based engineering,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2839.311,"endTime":2841.411,"body":"your engineering performance."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2841.711,"endTime":2843.301,"body":"That's the base of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2841.711,"endTime":2843.301,"body":"your engineering."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2843.301,"endTime":2844.711,"body":"You need to know"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2843.301,"endTime":2844.711,"body":"what performance to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2844.711,"endTime":2846.211,"body":"expect, and once you."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2847.141,"endTime":2847.831,"body":"You can do that."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2847.831,"endTime":2850.021,"body":"I truly think this"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2847.831,"endTime":2850.021,"body":"is of immense value."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2850.381,"endTime":2853.431,"body":"I also wanted to ask you about"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2850.381,"endTime":2853.431,"body":"this, issues with fire testing"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2853.431,"endTime":2856.191,"body":"that we're testing materials,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2853.431,"endTime":2856.191,"body":"not systems and so on."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2856.761,"endTime":2859.581,"body":"I think we're a little"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2856.761,"endTime":2859.581,"body":"running out of time."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2859.941,"endTime":2862.521,"body":"And I have one question that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2859.941,"endTime":2862.521,"body":"I want you to answer because"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2862.521,"endTime":2865.021,"body":"you're the only person I"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2862.521,"endTime":2865.021,"body":"know that can answer that."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2865.514,"endTime":2868.574,"body":"In your bio I've read, you've"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2865.514,"endTime":2868.574,"body":"dealt a lot with earthquake"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2868.574,"endTime":2872.994,"body":"engineering, wind engineering,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2868.574,"endTime":2872.994,"body":", From a perspective of"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2873.054,"endTime":2874.584,"body":"like earthquake engineer."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2875.084,"endTime":2879.014,"body":"Do you see a thing that exists"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2875.084,"endTime":2879.014,"body":"in earthquake engineering"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2879.014,"endTime":2882.944,"body":"that we do not see in fire"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2879.014,"endTime":2882.944,"body":"engineering or some like strict"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2883.004,"endTime":2886.904,"body":"difference that maybe could be"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2883.004,"endTime":2886.904,"body":"applied to fire engineering?"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2887.759,"endTime":2889.379,"body":"I've never talked to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2887.759,"endTime":2889.379,"body":"an earthquake engineer."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2889.379,"endTime":2889.469,"body":"We"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2889.469,"endTime":2890.699,"body":"don't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2889.469,"endTime":2890.699,"body":"have earthquakes in Poland."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2890.699,"endTime":2893.699,"body":"So maybe in other parts of the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2893.699,"endTime":2895.259,"body":"world is a bigger field in here."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2895.259,"endTime":2898.009,"body":"It's just, the damage"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2895.259,"endTime":2898.009,"body":"done by the mines in"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2898.009,"endTime":2899.449,"body":"Silesia region of Poland."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2899.479,"endTime":2901.759,"body":"But, it's really interesting"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2899.479,"endTime":2901.759,"body":"because you're dealing with"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2901.789,"endTime":2906.397,"body":"also with high impact accidents"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2901.789,"endTime":2906.397,"body":"that destroy buildings , and"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2906.437,"endTime":2909.177,"body":"structural resiliency's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2906.437,"endTime":2909.177,"body":"important in this case."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2909.627,"endTime":2912.407,"body":"And I know that the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2909.627,"endTime":2912.407,"body":"firefighters who attend these"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2912.437,"endTime":2915.827,"body":"events, they also care about"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2912.437,"endTime":2915.827,"body":"structural stability of the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2915.827,"endTime":2917.177,"body":"buildings post earthquake."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2917.477,"endTime":2918.977,"body":"One of my colleagues"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2917.477,"endTime":2918.977,"body":"in the office is."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2919.962,"endTime":2923.658,"body":"An active firefighter and"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2919.962,"endTime":2923.658,"body":"he's a member of earthquake"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2923.658,"endTime":2926.148,"body":"rescue a team of Poland."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2926.148,"endTime":2930.018,"body":"So when there's a huge"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2926.148,"endTime":2930.018,"body":"earthquake in somewhere in the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2930.018,"endTime":2933.318,"body":"world, they will just fly to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2930.018,"endTime":2933.318,"body":"there and they have rescue dogs."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2933.948,"endTime":2937.128,"body":"And he told me a lot of things"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2933.948,"endTime":2937.128,"body":"about structural stability"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2937.128,"endTime":2940.068,"body":"and how this is the most"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2937.128,"endTime":2940.068,"body":"important thing they assess"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2940.068,"endTime":2941.958,"body":"when entering the area."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2942.378,"endTime":2943.083,"body":"So as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2943.615,"endTime":2944.325,"body":"earthquake engineer"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2944.346,"endTime":2945.606,"body":"or structural engineer that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2945.636,"endTime":2948.516,"body":"covers this seismic activities."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2948.546,"endTime":2951.036,"body":"You look at the fire"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2948.546,"endTime":2951.036,"body":"engineering and what do you see?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2952.233,"endTime":2955.923,"body":"I think the way"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2952.233,"endTime":2955.923,"body":"we deal with earthquakes is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2956.013,"endTime":2959.463,"body":"actually a model for how we"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2956.013,"endTime":2959.463,"body":"should be dealing with fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2959.613,"endTime":2963.543,"body":"So if you look at the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2959.613,"endTime":2963.543,"body":"context of seismic design a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2963.573,"endTime":2966.153,"body":"we've been running numbers,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2963.573,"endTime":2966.153,"body":"we've been doing actual"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2966.153,"endTime":2967.983,"body":"engineering with real numbers"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2968.486,"endTime":2970.436,"body":"Okay, real numbers."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":2970.436,"endTime":2971.636,"body":"I'm going to write that down."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2971.948,"endTime":2975.638,"body":"That's just"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2971.948,"endTime":2975.638,"body":"not done as part of the code"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2975.668,"endTime":2978.368,"body":"process for buildings and fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2978.698,"endTime":2983.678,"body":"So just doing no real"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2978.698,"endTime":2983.678,"body":"engineering, there is step one."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2983.878,"endTime":2986.742,"body":"and then when you look at"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2983.878,"endTime":2986.742,"body":"that process, we ha we've"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2986.742,"endTime":2987.972,"body":"had simpler approaches."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2988.002,"endTime":2990.812,"body":"And then as we've gone"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2988.002,"endTime":2990.812,"body":"through, improvements"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2990.812,"endTime":2992.882,"body":"in our understanding of"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2990.812,"endTime":2992.882,"body":"building behaviors and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2992.882,"endTime":2994.952,"body":"also for computation"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2992.882,"endTime":2994.952,"body":"on pick capabilities."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2995.792,"endTime":2998.672,"body":"We've been doing versions"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2995.792,"endTime":2998.672,"body":"of performance-based design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2998.762,"endTime":3001.012,"body":"At least I would say"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":2998.762,"endTime":3001.012,"body":"from eighties and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3001.012,"endTime":3004.672,"body":"nineties, and initially"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3001.012,"endTime":3004.672,"body":"it was less formalized."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3004.672,"endTime":3008.032,"body":"And then over the years we"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3004.672,"endTime":3008.032,"body":"had to have accumulated so"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3008.032,"endTime":3011.902,"body":"much knowledge and expertise"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3008.032,"endTime":3011.902,"body":"where you could really do"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3012.262,"endTime":3015.202,"body":"great a performance based"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3012.262,"endTime":3015.202,"body":"designed for earthquakes"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3015.862,"endTime":3017.422,"body":"and what  from that process."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3017.452,"endTime":3020.722,"body":"And it's really key as"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3017.452,"endTime":3020.722,"body":"performance-based is on, is"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3020.722,"endTime":3022.602,"body":"basically a rational design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3023.077,"endTime":3026.857,"body":"You do things that"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3023.077,"endTime":3026.857,"body":"help improve safety."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3026.843,"endTime":3029.903,"body":"But because of that, it's"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3026.843,"endTime":3029.903,"body":"also an optimum design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3030.413,"endTime":3033.653,"body":"It also means you don't do"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3030.413,"endTime":3033.653,"body":"things that are just a cost"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3033.683,"endTime":3035.753,"body":"and do not provide safety."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3035.753,"endTime":3038.663,"body":"And so you could say I have"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3035.753,"endTime":3038.663,"body":"the same batch of money."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3038.663,"endTime":3040.843,"body":"I'm going to use it in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3038.663,"endTime":3040.843,"body":"a more efficient way and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3040.853,"endTime":3041.993,"body":"get a safer building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3042.203,"endTime":3045.593,"body":"Or if you have a same"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3042.203,"endTime":3045.593,"body":"level of safety as your"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3045.623,"endTime":3047.573,"body":"goal, you can get that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3047.903,"endTime":3048.923,"body":"Get there with."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3050.213,"endTime":3052.343,"body":"Money because you're doing"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3050.213,"endTime":3052.343,"body":"a more optimal design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3052.373,"endTime":3054.773,"body":"And so I've done performance"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3052.373,"endTime":3054.773,"body":"space, design design in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3054.773,"endTime":3056.813,"body":"earthquakes, and you go"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3054.773,"endTime":3056.813,"body":"through the process and you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3056.813,"endTime":3057.923,"body":"can design the building."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3057.953,"endTime":3059.933,"body":"That's more resilient."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3060.293,"endTime":3061.823,"body":"And cheaper at the same time."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3062.333,"endTime":3064.553,"body":"And when you see"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3062.333,"endTime":3064.553,"body":"that, why not do that?"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3065.273,"endTime":3068.243,"body":"It's the same process"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3065.273,"endTime":3068.243,"body":"that you see in fire."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3068.243,"endTime":3071.693,"body":"We've done studies actually ASC"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3068.243,"endTime":3071.693,"body":"and Charles Pankow foundation."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3072.888,"endTime":3076.398,"body":"let us study that we were"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3072.888,"endTime":3076.398,"body":"part of along with a few"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3076.398,"endTime":3079.548,"body":"other engineering firms, a"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3076.398,"endTime":3079.548,"body":"few people from academia,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3079.878,"endTime":3083.148,"body":"really collaborative work,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3079.878,"endTime":3083.148,"body":"and we looked at four"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3083.148,"endTime":3085.888,"body":"different buildings and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3083.148,"endTime":3085.888,"body":"what performance-based"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3085.908,"endTime":3088.758,"body":"design would look for them"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3085.908,"endTime":3088.758,"body":"versus prescriptive design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3089.358,"endTime":3092.748,"body":"And in all four cases,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3089.358,"endTime":3092.748,"body":"I would say there, there"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3092.748,"endTime":3093.708,"body":"are running themes."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3094.108,"endTime":3095.638,"body":"One of them was"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3094.108,"endTime":3095.638,"body":"performance-based"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3095.638,"endTime":3096.678,"body":"design is not scary."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3096.678,"endTime":3099.958,"body":"It doesn't put an"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3096.678,"endTime":3099.958,"body":"impossible burden on the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3099.958,"endTime":3102.448,"body":"design in software design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3102.448,"endTime":3106.018,"body":"You also saw safety gaps in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3102.448,"endTime":3106.018,"body":"the prescriptive design, but"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3106.048,"endTime":3109.108,"body":"in most cases, when you look"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3106.048,"endTime":3109.108,"body":"at the performance design, yes."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3110.008,"endTime":3112.498,"body":"More resilient and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3110.008,"endTime":3112.498,"body":"cheaper at the same time."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3112.918,"endTime":3115.858,"body":"And so that's something to"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3112.918,"endTime":3115.858,"body":"really kind of keep in mind."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3116.368,"endTime":3120.905,"body":"And then I would say that one"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3116.368,"endTime":3120.905,"body":"more way where seismic design"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3120.905,"endTime":3125.178,"body":"should really be a mother for"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3120.905,"endTime":3125.178,"body":"us is even 10, 15 years ago."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3125.178,"endTime":3128.248,"body":"When you looked at a performance"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3125.178,"endTime":3128.248,"body":"based design, we did."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3128.268,"endTime":3132.378,"body":"performance-based designed"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3128.268,"endTime":3132.378,"body":"for very select number of."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3132.925,"endTime":3134.692,"body":"Most buildings were"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3132.925,"endTime":3134.692,"body":"still prescriptive."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3134.722,"endTime":3138.352,"body":"We did real engineering,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3134.722,"endTime":3138.352,"body":"but it was not the same"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3138.352,"endTime":3139.612,"body":"level of sophistication."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3140.092,"endTime":3143.872,"body":"Nowadays, when you go to a high"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3140.092,"endTime":3143.872,"body":"seismic area and you look at any"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3143.872,"endTime":3147.262,"body":"major building performance-based"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3143.872,"endTime":3147.262,"body":"design has become the norm."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3147.622,"endTime":3151.072,"body":"So for fire, I'm hoping from"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3147.622,"endTime":3151.072,"body":"going from a prescriptive"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3151.102,"endTime":3154.267,"body":"designed to looking at the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3151.102,"endTime":3154.267,"body":"important buildings, high"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3154.267,"endTime":3157.297,"body":"consequence buildings with"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3154.267,"endTime":3157.297,"body":"real engineering and during"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3157.297,"endTime":3158.647,"body":"the performance space design."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3158.647,"endTime":3161.197,"body":"And I think that's something"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3158.647,"endTime":3161.197,"body":"that's really good benefits."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3161.557,"endTime":3162.067,"body":"What we do."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3162.41,"endTime":3163.41,"body":"That's perfect."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3163.8,"endTime":3166.62,"body":"It's so in line with the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3163.8,"endTime":3166.62,"body":"previous interviews, you have"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3166.62,"endTime":3170.31,"body":"not heard, it seems that, the"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3166.62,"endTime":3170.31,"body":"smart minds in the fire science"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3170.88,"endTime":3173.22,"body":"think alike, and I really enjoy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3173.22,"endTime":3173.46,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3174.0,"endTime":3175.08,"body":"Okay, Ali thank"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3175.08,"endTime":3176.4,"body":"you so much for your time."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3176.79,"endTime":3179.43,"body":"It was a huge pleasure to"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3176.79,"endTime":3179.43,"body":"discuss structural fire"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3179.43,"endTime":3182.17,"body":"resiliency with you It's"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3179.43,"endTime":3182.17,"body":"going to be an important"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3182.17,"endTime":3184.57,"body":"topic for people to just"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3182.17,"endTime":3184.57,"body":"to reach the knowledge."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3184.62,"endTime":3187.68,"body":"You've mentioned no closing"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3184.62,"endTime":3187.68,"body":"the knowledge gap and reaching"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3187.69,"endTime":3189.61,"body":"the firefighters is important."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3190.04,"endTime":3193.16,"body":"And it's something I'm"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3190.04,"endTime":3193.16,"body":"thinking out of this interview."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3193.64,"endTime":3196.38,"body":"So, thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3193.64,"endTime":3196.38,"body":"being here  for spending"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3196.38,"endTime":3197.61,"body":"your time with me."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3198.36,"endTime":3200.75,"body":"And,  maybe you have some"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3198.36,"endTime":3200.75,"body":"resources you want people"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3200.75,"endTime":3203.06,"body":"to redirect to, I'm going"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3200.75,"endTime":3203.06,"body":"to redirect them to that"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3203.09,"endTime":3204.71,"body":"great webinar you gave on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3204.71,"endTime":3205.89,"body":"the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3204.71,"endTime":3205.89,"body":"structural fire resiliency."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3205.91,"endTime":3206.15,"body":"But,"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3206.25,"endTime":3206.88,"body":"if there's something"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3206.88,"endTime":3207.42,"body":"else you can let."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3208.417,"endTime":3208.807,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3208.867,"endTime":3212.317,"body":"I will certainly send you"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3208.867,"endTime":3212.317,"body":"a few links where a lot"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3212.317,"endTime":3214.897,"body":"of people are working on"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3212.317,"endTime":3214.897,"body":"different aspects of this."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3214.897,"endTime":3216.607,"body":"And so there are"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3214.897,"endTime":3216.607,"body":"resources out there."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3216.607,"endTime":3218.557,"body":"It's not like we want"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3216.607,"endTime":3218.557,"body":"to start from zero."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3219.347,"endTime":3223.277,"body":"I also want to thank you, not"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3219.347,"endTime":3223.277,"body":"just for having me here, but I"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3223.277,"endTime":3227.057,"body":"think what you're doing here in"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3223.277,"endTime":3227.057,"body":"having conversations with people"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3227.057,"endTime":3230.987,"body":"who are touching fire safety"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3227.057,"endTime":3230.987,"body":"from different aspects and"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3230.987,"endTime":3234.707,"body":"perspective is really important"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3230.987,"endTime":3234.707,"body":"because this is a problem"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3234.707,"endTime":3238.997,"body":"that has many aspects and the"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3234.707,"endTime":3238.997,"body":"solutions should be talking"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3238.997,"endTime":3241.037,"body":"to each other, and you're"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3238.997,"endTime":3241.037,"body":"really helping doing that."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3241.037,"endTime":3241.727,"body":"So thank you."},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3241.727,"endTime":3241.847,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3241.955,"endTime":3242.435,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3242.435,"endTime":3245.525,"body":"Thank you for the kind words"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3242.435,"endTime":3245.525,"body":"and yeah, let's make the world"},{"speaker":"wojciech_wegrzynski-2021-9-14__20-4-19","startTime":3245.825,"endTime":3247.115,"body":"a little bit safer together."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3247.175,"endTime":3247.795,"body":"Thank you, Ali."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3248.075,"endTime":3248.765,"body":"See  you around,"},{"speaker":"Ali Ashrafi","startTime":3249.067,"endTime":3249.697,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3251.125,"endTime":3252.045,"body":"And that's it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3252.375,"endTime":3253.545,"body":"I hope you enjoyed this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3253.545,"endTime":3256.065,"body":"Talk with Ali about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3253.545,"endTime":3256.065,"body":"how buildings can be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3256.065,"endTime":3256.965,"body":"resilient for fighting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3257.7,"endTime":3260.22,"body":"And support firefighting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3260.79,"endTime":3264.72,"body":"For me to some very interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3260.79,"endTime":3264.72,"body":"discussion with many good points"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3265.17,"endTime":3269.97,"body":"on how can we improve design"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3265.17,"endTime":3269.97,"body":"taking into account the factors"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3269.97,"endTime":3274.14,"body":"that influenced the firefighting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3269.97,"endTime":3274.14,"body":"actions starting with."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3275.185,"endTime":3279.735,"body":"Our decisions shaped the battle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3275.185,"endTime":3279.735,"body":"ground through the role of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3279.795,"endTime":3283.215,"body":"structural soundness of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3279.795,"endTime":3283.215,"body":"building and the structural"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3283.215,"endTime":3288.855,"body":"stability of it and how that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3283.215,"endTime":3288.855,"body":"influences the firefighters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3289.335,"endTime":3292.83,"body":"actions and the ability to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3289.335,"endTime":3292.83,"body":"rescue people the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3293.37,"endTime":3297.78,"body":"and finishing with how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3293.37,"endTime":3297.78,"body":"performance-based engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3297.84,"endTime":3301.65,"body":"is the root for all the good"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3297.84,"endTime":3301.65,"body":"solutions that Ali mentioned."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3301.89,"endTime":3305.07,"body":"As I understand for Ali,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3301.89,"endTime":3305.07,"body":"the fire performance-based"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3305.07,"endTime":3308.85,"body":"engineering is the engineering"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3305.07,"endTime":3308.85,"body":"itself and the way how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3309.33,"endTime":3314.01,"body":"we can design not only"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3309.33,"endTime":3314.01,"body":"safer buildings, but also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3314.1,"endTime":3315.99,"body":"cost optimized buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3316.08,"endTime":3318.91,"body":"That's a really profound"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3316.08,"endTime":3318.91,"body":"thought and they also have."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3319.645,"endTime":3321.025,"body":"In my own career."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3321.615,"endTime":3327.435,"body":"It's very rare that we would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3321.615,"endTime":3327.435,"body":"improve safety systems in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3327.435,"endTime":3330.525,"body":"the building, putting in an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3327.435,"endTime":3330.525,"body":"additional cost on the building."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3331.155,"endTime":3336.195,"body":"We usually on our way to that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3331.155,"endTime":3336.195,"body":"better solutions found ways"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3336.195,"endTime":3339.735,"body":"to make the building cheaper"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3336.195,"endTime":3339.735,"body":"or the solutions cheaper."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3340.155,"endTime":3343.515,"body":"So it was always a win-win"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3340.155,"endTime":3343.515,"body":"solution for the safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3343.515,"endTime":3344.655,"body":"and for the investor."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3345.165,"endTime":3347.375,"body":"And I'm really happy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3345.165,"endTime":3347.375,"body":"that he so explicitly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3347.585,"endTime":3348.635,"body":"put that on the plate."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3349.663,"endTime":3351.163,"body":"Performance-based engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3351.223,"endTime":3356.293,"body":"This not only allow you to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3351.223,"endTime":3356.293,"body":"make the building safer, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3356.293,"endTime":3360.493,"body":"only gives this economical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3356.293,"endTime":3360.493,"body":"incentive to pursue this goal."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3360.943,"endTime":3361.123,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3361.553,"endTime":3367.583,"body":"Having my experience, 11 years"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3361.553,"endTime":3367.583,"body":"in building designs in solving"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3367.793,"endTime":3369.773,"body":"practical issues with buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3370.253,"endTime":3374.063,"body":"I know that sometimes without"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3370.253,"endTime":3374.063,"body":"economical incentive, there's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3374.093,"endTime":3376.223,"body":"very little you can do so."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3376.403,"endTime":3377.123,"body":"Thanks Ali."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3377.303,"endTime":3380.303,"body":"That's a really great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3377.303,"endTime":3380.303,"body":"fault for all of us."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3380.903,"endTime":3381.503,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3382.348,"endTime":3385.558,"body":"Yeah, I hope this can be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3382.348,"endTime":3385.558,"body":"placed into the practice."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3385.558,"endTime":3390.088,"body":"And this can be used, as I've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3385.558,"endTime":3390.088,"body":"mentioned in the intro, Allie"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3390.088,"endTime":3394.648,"body":"has given a lot of practical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3390.088,"endTime":3394.648,"body":"recommendations that fulfill"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3395.158,"endTime":3398.728,"body":"the prophecies, or they have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3395.158,"endTime":3398.728,"body":"faults that Brian Meacham"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3398.728,"endTime":3401.188,"body":"has left in the episode 20."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3401.488,"endTime":3401.818,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3402.393,"endTime":3405.213,"body":"If you haven't heard episode"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3402.393,"endTime":3405.213,"body":"20, that's the moment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3405.213,"endTime":3408.523,"body":"you switch into that and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3405.213,"endTime":3408.523,"body":"listen to Brian Meacham"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3408.873,"endTime":3412.443,"body":"because these two episodes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3408.873,"endTime":3412.443,"body":"accompany each other so well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3413.073,"endTime":3418.173,"body":"And yeah, I really hope this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3413.073,"endTime":3418.173,"body":"starts a discussion into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3418.173,"endTime":3423.003,"body":"how can we build the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3418.173,"endTime":3423.003,"body":"safe world a little better"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3423.063,"endTime":3424.773,"body":"and a little more optimized."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3424.823,"endTime":3428.883,"body":"And a little more reasonable"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3424.823,"endTime":3428.883,"body":"way, without spending excessive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3428.943,"endTime":3434.373,"body":"amount of resources on solutions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3428.943,"endTime":3434.373,"body":"that don't provide anything and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3434.463,"endTime":3438.603,"body":"truly focusing on objectives"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3434.463,"endTime":3438.603,"body":"that we would all consider"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3438.603,"endTime":3440.643,"body":"us the safety objectives."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3441.418,"endTime":3443.308,"body":"Thank you so much for listening."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3443.998,"endTime":3449.278,"body":"As usual please share this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3443.998,"endTime":3449.278,"body":"episode or this podcast with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3449.278,"endTime":3450.688,"body":"a friend with a colleague."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3451.228,"endTime":3455.468,"body":"And, I would love to reach as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3451.228,"endTime":3455.468,"body":"many people as possible with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3455.468,"endTime":3457.028,"body":"the messages we have in here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3457.748,"endTime":3460.778,"body":"If you think it was valuable"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3457.748,"endTime":3460.778,"body":"for you to spend an hour"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3460.778,"endTime":3465.098,"body":"listening to this episode or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3460.778,"endTime":3465.098,"body":"the podcast and, it may be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3465.098,"endTime":3466.678,"body":"also worth for your colleague."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3467.213,"endTime":3470.543,"body":"Please share the knowledge about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3467.213,"endTime":3470.543,"body":"the existence of this show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3471.323,"endTime":3476.323,"body":"And if you're thriving for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3471.323,"endTime":3476.323,"body":"more fire science, knowledge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3476.383,"endTime":3480.313,"body":"and entertainment, please"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3476.383,"endTime":3480.313,"body":"join me next Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3480.733,"endTime":3483.643,"body":"And yeah, there will be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3480.733,"endTime":3483.643,"body":"another great episode"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3483.643,"endTime":3484.513,"body":"waiting for you there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3484.963,"endTime":3485.443,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3485.713,"endTime":3486.913,"body":"See you next Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3487.213,"endTime":3488.413,"body":"Thanks for being here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3488.503,"endTime":3490.093,"body":"Thanks for all of your support"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3490.483,"endTime":3490.753,"body":"cheers."}]}