{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.421,"endTime":2.191,"body":"Hello,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.421,"endTime":2.191,"body":"and welcome to session 22"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2.191,"endTime":3.391,"body":"of the Fire Science Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3.841,"endTime":6.691,"body":"First thing first, thank"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3.841,"endTime":6.691,"body":"you to all of you supporting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":6.691,"endTime":10.321,"body":"Fire Science Show through a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":6.691,"endTime":10.321,"body":"five-star ratings, reviews,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":10.781,"endTime":13.541,"body":"sharing the episodes with your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":10.781,"endTime":13.541,"body":"friends or donating to the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":13.541,"endTime":15.551,"body":"podcast or the podcast website."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.911,"endTime":18.491,"body":"I really appreciate all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.911,"endTime":18.491,"body":"the community support and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":18.491,"endTime":22.721,"body":"I'm really happy that there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":18.491,"endTime":22.721,"body":"is a community around this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":23.021,"endTime":24.281,"body":"show that's rising up."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":24.311,"endTime":26.091,"body":"And, that makes me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":24.311,"endTime":26.091,"body":"very, very happy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":26.821,"endTime":30.571,"body":"Today I have for you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":26.821,"endTime":30.571,"body":"another interesting guest."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":31.031,"endTime":35.681,"body":"You maybe remember episode14"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":31.031,"endTime":35.681,"body":"where I hosted Sarah McAllister"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":36.071,"endTime":40.061,"body":"and we went on a journey through"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":36.071,"endTime":40.061,"body":"the scales of fire phenomena."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":40.601,"endTime":43.031,"body":"Let's say today's episode"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":40.601,"endTime":43.031,"body":"is a sequel to that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":43.511,"endTime":47.261,"body":"I am having a brilliant"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":43.511,"endTime":47.261,"body":"professor from University"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":47.261,"endTime":50.351,"body":"of California, Berkeley,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":47.261,"endTime":50.351,"body":"where he has just achieved"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":50.351,"endTime":51.641,"body":"his tenure promotion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.416,"endTime":56.866,"body":"Today with me is professor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":52.416,"endTime":56.866,"body":"Mike Gollner and we are gonna"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":56.886,"endTime":60.786,"body":"talk about combustion again,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":56.886,"endTime":60.786,"body":"but again, we're not going to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":60.786,"endTime":65.736,"body":"focus on a single phenomenon,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":60.786,"endTime":65.736,"body":"but rather we're gonna unravel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":65.736,"endTime":70.386,"body":"how fluid mechanics plays a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":65.736,"endTime":70.386,"body":"role in fundamental combustion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.446,"endTime":73.566,"body":"What fundamental combustion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.446,"endTime":73.566,"body":"is to fire safety engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.166,"endTime":77.046,"body":"And what interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.166,"endTime":77.046,"body":"outcomes come from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":77.136,"endTime":79.636,"body":"this to every engineer."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":79.996,"endTime":85.026,"body":"So , I really hope you will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":79.996,"endTime":85.026,"body":"enjoy this episode and yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":85.086,"endTime":86.436,"body":"let's not prolong this anymore."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.796,"endTime":89.166,"body":"Let's spin the intro and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":86.796,"endTime":89.166,"body":"jump into the episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":113.301,"endTime":113.631,"body":"Hello."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":113.661,"endTime":116.241,"body":"Welcome to fire science show"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":113.661,"endTime":116.241,"body":"I'm today with Professor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":116.241,"endTime":119.931,"body":"Michael Gollner from University"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":116.241,"endTime":119.931,"body":"of California, Berkeley."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":120.081,"endTime":120.801,"body":"Hi, Michael."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":120.801,"endTime":121.641,"body":"Nice to see you."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":122.141,"endTime":123.251,"body":"Hey,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":122.141,"endTime":123.251,"body":"great to be here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":123.831,"endTime":125.721,"body":"Yeah, so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":123.831,"endTime":125.721,"body":"cool that you've joined the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":125.721,"endTime":129.381,"body":"show and I'm really happy that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":125.721,"endTime":129.381,"body":"it's just a few days after"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":129.801,"endTime":133.071,"body":"you've been promoted to your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":129.801,"endTime":133.071,"body":"tenure track in Berkeley."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.071,"endTime":134.271,"body":"That's amazing, man."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":134.315,"endTime":134.615,"body":"Huge."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":134.615,"endTime":135.395,"body":"Congratulations."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":136.4,"endTime":136.91,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":137.21,"endTime":138.96,"body":"I hope"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":137.21,"endTime":138.96,"body":"I'm the first one interviewing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":138.96,"endTime":140.85,"body":"you as a new professor."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":140.85,"endTime":141.57,"body":"I think you are."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":141.57,"endTime":145.32,"body":"I haven't done any interviews"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":141.57,"endTime":145.32,"body":"since, so I, uh, I feel honored."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":145.93,"endTime":146.62,"body":"Yeah, man."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":146.98,"endTime":149.89,"body":"The next step, the Noble"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":146.98,"endTime":149.89,"body":"Prize for your parking spots."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":149.92,"endTime":151.99,"body":"But so far it looks promising."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":154.905,"endTime":158.781,"body":"Let's see Michael, I've invited"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":154.905,"endTime":158.781,"body":"you because you are, quite"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":158.781,"endTime":160.131,"body":"familiar with combustion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":160.671,"endTime":165.581,"body":"I had in the show, Sarah"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":160.671,"endTime":165.581,"body":"McAllister who's taken me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":165.581,"endTime":168.371,"body":"into fantastic journey through"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":165.581,"endTime":168.371,"body":"the scales of fire phenomena."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":168.941,"endTime":171.731,"body":"And she's a person who is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":168.941,"endTime":171.731,"body":"living from burning up, wood"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.731,"endTime":175.126,"body":"cribs and then I thought,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":171.731,"endTime":175.126,"body":"you're a guy who's living"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":175.156,"endTime":177.136,"body":"from burning up a PMMA slabs."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":177.436,"endTime":179.116,"body":"So that's pretty close."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":179.686,"endTime":182.766,"body":"But, I think this, combustion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":179.686,"endTime":182.766,"body":"topics are really fantastic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":182.796,"endTime":185.736,"body":"because there is not that much"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":182.796,"endTime":185.736,"body":"exposure to fire professionals"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":185.786,"endTime":187.206,"body":"on fundamental combustion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":187.206,"endTime":191.496,"body":"At least there was not that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":187.206,"endTime":191.496,"body":"much in my education and that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":191.496,"endTime":192.996,"body":"what I would like to discuss"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":192.996,"endTime":195.863,"body":"However, before we start,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":192.996,"endTime":195.863,"body":"I'm actually curious."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":196.428,"endTime":200.148,"body":"How much of fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":196.428,"endTime":200.148,"body":"combustion or fire phenomena"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":200.418,"endTime":203.928,"body":"you are teaching to your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":200.418,"endTime":203.928,"body":"students who are pursuing like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":204.408,"endTime":207.438,"body":"a master's in mech engineering"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":207.563,"endTime":208.823,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":207.563,"endTime":208.823,"body":"it really depends."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":208.823,"endTime":211.793,"body":"So as you know, I was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":208.823,"endTime":211.793,"body":"faculty in University of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":211.793,"endTime":215.513,"body":"Maryland and there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":211.793,"endTime":215.513,"body":"we had graduate courses in."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":216.338,"endTime":218.408,"body":"Called diffusion flames,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":216.338,"endTime":218.408,"body":"but in combustion."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":218.528,"endTime":221.048,"body":"And so master's and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":218.528,"endTime":221.048,"body":"PhD focused on that."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":221.048,"endTime":223.448,"body":"And undergrad, there was"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":221.048,"endTime":223.448,"body":"certainly quite a bit of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":223.448,"endTime":225.188,"body":"combustion in the fire dynamics."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":225.788,"endTime":229.388,"body":"And here at Berkeley,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":225.788,"endTime":229.388,"body":"there are no fire classes."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":229.388,"endTime":231.338,"body":"Hopefully next semester"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":229.388,"endTime":231.338,"body":"I'll get to teach the first."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":231.368,"endTime":234.098,"body":"So there is a wildfire taught"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":231.368,"endTime":234.098,"body":"in sort of the environmental"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":234.098,"endTime":237.038,"body":"science and policy side,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":234.098,"endTime":237.038,"body":"but hopefully I'll get to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":237.038,"endTime":240.068,"body":"teach the first engineering"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":237.038,"endTime":240.068,"body":"wildfire focus course."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":240.128,"endTime":241.208,"body":"And the next semester to."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":241.908,"endTime":244.758,"body":"And then we have traditional"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":241.908,"endTime":244.758,"body":"combustion, which used to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":244.758,"endTime":249.228,"body":"more energy and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":244.758,"endTime":249.228,"body":"engine focused, but we're trying"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":249.228,"endTime":252.318,"body":"to transition this, my grad"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":249.228,"endTime":252.318,"body":"students, obviously that are"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":252.318,"endTime":255.408,"body":"doing research, get a little"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":252.318,"endTime":255.408,"body":"more into detail, but I'd say"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":255.408,"endTime":257.988,"body":"as well, that not, not all"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":255.408,"endTime":257.988,"body":"of my students are focused,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":258.618,"endTime":259.818,"body":"on fundamental combustion."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":259.818,"endTime":260.358,"body":"I mean, we have."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":261.131,"endTime":264.931,"body":"It's such a mixed field, heat"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":261.131,"endTime":264.931,"body":"transfer, fluid mechanics,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":264.991,"endTime":267.571,"body":"there's the combustion,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":264.991,"endTime":267.571,"body":"but in wildfires, we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":267.571,"endTime":268.861,"body":"looking at risk analysis."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":268.861,"endTime":272.191,"body":"We're looking at emissions"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":268.861,"endTime":272.191,"body":"and it's, our field is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":272.191,"endTime":275.131,"body":"so interdisciplinary and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":272.191,"endTime":275.131,"body":"tying things together."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":275.701,"endTime":280.051,"body":"So yeah, within mechanical"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":275.701,"endTime":280.051,"body":"engineering, we do, we do a bit"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":280.051,"endTime":282.941,"body":"of the fundamental combustion,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":280.051,"endTime":282.941,"body":"but I think it's a broader"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":282.941,"endTime":285.881,"body":"field and it takes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":282.941,"endTime":285.881,"body":"perspectives put together."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":286.326,"endTime":289.056,"body":"And if"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":286.326,"endTime":289.056,"body":"you get going to mind of like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":289.056,"endTime":294.426,"body":"a graduate, a fire protection"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":289.056,"endTime":294.426,"body":"engineer, you think this topic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":294.426,"endTime":296.196,"body":"would be very relevant to them?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":296.566,"endTime":299.826,"body":"I'm honestly curious, because as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":296.566,"endTime":299.826,"body":"I mentioned in my professional"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":299.826,"endTime":304.151,"body":"education in Poland, we had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":299.826,"endTime":304.151,"body":"classes with late professor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":304.151,"endTime":309.341,"body":"Konecki,  my further supervisor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":304.151,"endTime":309.341,"body":"who was teaching, compartment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":309.341,"endTime":312.821,"body":"five dynamics, you know, Dougal"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":309.341,"endTime":312.821,"body":"Drysdale style compartment, fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":312.821,"endTime":314.981,"body":"dynamics, and that was huge fun."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":315.251,"endTime":318.911,"body":"I really loved it, but,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":315.251,"endTime":318.911,"body":"you know, premix flames,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":318.941,"endTime":321.531,"body":"diffusion flames, not so much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":321.561,"endTime":322.881,"body":"And, then when."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":323.586,"endTime":325.596,"body":"I'm a consultant."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":325.596,"endTime":327.996,"body":"I'm a, let's say field engineer."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":329.016,"endTime":333.306,"body":"I don't feel that I lack this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":329.016,"endTime":333.306,"body":"knowledge, but every now and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":333.306,"endTime":336.946,"body":"then I meet a problem, where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":333.306,"endTime":336.946,"body":"without, this fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":336.946,"endTime":340.856,"body":"knowledge on, especially"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":336.946,"endTime":340.856,"body":"turbulent flames, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":340.856,"endTime":342.246,"body":"difficult to solve the issue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":342.666,"endTime":346.086,"body":"And when I jumped into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":342.666,"endTime":346.086,"body":"modeling and fluid mechanics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":346.086,"endTime":347.766,"body":"is something that we both do."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":348.386,"endTime":350.456,"body":"I don't need this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":348.386,"endTime":350.456,"body":"knowledge to run the CFD"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":350.456,"endTime":351.716,"body":"because it's a black box."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":351.746,"endTime":354.806,"body":"If I tell him to burn it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":351.746,"endTime":354.806,"body":"will, but to understand"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":354.866,"endTime":356.936,"body":"what's happening in it, I."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":357.776,"endTime":360.776,"body":"If I didn't get this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":357.776,"endTime":360.776,"body":"knowledge elsewhere, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":360.776,"endTime":362.006,"body":"would have difficult times."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":362.006,"endTime":366.016,"body":"So I wonder from your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":362.006,"endTime":366.016,"body":"perspective in, graduate, fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":366.016,"endTime":370.166,"body":"safety engineer curriculum, how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":366.016,"endTime":370.166,"body":"much should they know about,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":370.256,"endTime":371.506,"body":"pretty fundamental combustion?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":371.626,"endTime":374.136,"body":"Cause you like, look to me"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":371.626,"endTime":374.136,"body":"like a combustion person."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":375.131,"endTime":378.271,"body":"I looked like"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":375.131,"endTime":378.271,"body":"a yeah, well, you know, yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":378.571,"endTime":381.081,"body":"Well, this is always, this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":378.571,"endTime":381.081,"body":"is the weird point tonight."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":381.141,"endTime":381.681,"body":"I remember it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":382.771,"endTime":385.561,"body":"Uh, symposium professor"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":382.771,"endTime":385.561,"body":"Fernandez Pello who's here"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":385.561,"endTime":389.551,"body":"with me at Berkeley received"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":385.561,"endTime":389.551,"body":"the Emmons award, gave a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":389.551,"endTime":392.641,"body":"lecture and was saying how he"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":389.551,"endTime":392.641,"body":"was everyone always thought"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":392.641,"endTime":393.691,"body":"in the combustion community."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":393.721,"endTime":395.131,"body":"Oh, you're really in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":393.721,"endTime":395.131,"body":"fire community, the fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":395.131,"endTime":396.961,"body":"community, all you're really"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":395.131,"endTime":396.961,"body":"in the combustion community."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":397.231,"endTime":400.231,"body":"And I feel like I, myself"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":397.231,"endTime":400.231,"body":"will always be in between."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":401.071,"endTime":402.781,"body":"And now I have the wildfire and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":402.781,"endTime":403.321,"body":"fluid,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":403.711,"endTime":404.786,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":403.711,"endTime":404.786,"body":"you are in  the triangle."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":405.34,"endTime":406.72,"body":"Although"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":405.34,"endTime":406.72,"body":"I take back, I said that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":406.72,"endTime":409.78,"body":"everyone has been kind and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":406.72,"endTime":409.78,"body":"accepting and everything."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":409.78,"endTime":412.54,"body":"I don't feel like anyone, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":409.78,"endTime":412.54,"body":"know, but at the same time,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":412.54,"endTime":413.86,"body":"everyone has this assumption."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":413.866,"endTime":416.956,"body":"It's hard in an"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":413.866,"endTime":416.956,"body":"interdisciplinary field,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":417.026,"endTime":420.406,"body":"but going back, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":417.026,"endTime":420.406,"body":"no, I don't think, an"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":420.406,"endTime":422.566,"body":"engineer needs to solve"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":420.406,"endTime":422.566,"body":"the partial differential"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":422.566,"endTime":425.416,"body":"equations so that he can"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":422.566,"endTime":425.416,"body":"formulate the Emmons problem."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":425.956,"endTime":430.741,"body":"But you do have to understand"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":425.956,"endTime":430.741,"body":"what makes a fire burn."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":430.981,"endTime":431.281,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":431.281,"endTime":432.811,"body":"Where's the heat"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":431.281,"endTime":432.811,"body":"transfer coming?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":433.171,"endTime":436.171,"body":"Why is the flame heating"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":433.171,"endTime":436.171,"body":"this up and making it spread?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":436.711,"endTime":437.941,"body":"And what are the limits?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":437.971,"endTime":441.991,"body":"Because you have your"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":437.971,"endTime":441.991,"body":"textbook common, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":442.021,"endTime":445.051,"body":"fire problems, and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":442.021,"endTime":445.051,"body":"you run into something new."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":445.101,"endTime":448.131,"body":"You never want to be tricked"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":445.101,"endTime":448.131,"body":"into thinking something's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":448.251,"endTime":449.721,"body":"just this common thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":449.871,"endTime":451.431,"body":"If there's something unusual."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":451.431,"endTime":454.161,"body":"So I'll take, I'm sure something"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":451.431,"endTime":454.161,"body":"we'll talk about inclined"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":454.161,"endTime":458.721,"body":"flame spread and the rate of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":454.161,"endTime":458.721,"body":"burning and how something's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":458.721,"endTime":463.041,"body":"happening, where the flame is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":458.721,"endTime":463.041,"body":"based and fixed is different"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":463.041,"endTime":464.451,"body":"than what goes on up ahead."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":464.781,"endTime":467.331,"body":"And in all the planes depends"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":464.781,"endTime":467.331,"body":"on the tilt of the flame"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":467.331,"endTime":468.741,"body":"and the ambient conditions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":468.791,"endTime":471.461,"body":"You don't need to be able"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":468.791,"endTime":471.461,"body":"to write the equations."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":471.581,"endTime":472.961,"body":"I mean, in school, we're going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":471.581,"endTime":472.961,"body":"to teach you the write the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":472.961,"endTime":475.781,"body":"equations, but we want you to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":472.961,"endTime":475.781,"body":"be able to think about it and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":475.781,"endTime":477.071,"body":"to be able to understand that."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":477.071,"endTime":481.151,"body":"And even for a firefighter,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":477.071,"endTime":481.151,"body":"I think that intuitive"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":481.151,"endTime":482.831,"body":"knowledge is important."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":482.936,"endTime":486.746,"body":"Cause you, you get a sense of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":482.936,"endTime":486.746,"body":"what the fire might be able"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":486.746,"endTime":489.926,"body":"to do and how it's behaving,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":486.746,"endTime":489.926,"body":"how it's going to change in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":489.926,"endTime":493.196,"body":"different types of fuels, how"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":489.926,"endTime":493.196,"body":"the ventilation conditions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":493.676,"endTime":497.286,"body":"And so I would stress if"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":493.676,"endTime":497.286,"body":"you think of the mathy part."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":497.346,"endTime":499.296,"body":"Oh, you know, let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":497.346,"endTime":499.296,"body":"make sure they know the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":499.296,"endTime":500.226,"body":"boundary conditions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":500.256,"endTime":502.356,"body":"Let's make sure they know"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":500.256,"endTime":502.356,"body":"how the equation is going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":502.356,"endTime":505.206,"body":"to change, even if you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":502.356,"endTime":505.206,"body":"not able to formulate it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":505.776,"endTime":505.956,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":506.406,"endTime":508.326,"body":"I can think about it physically."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":508.356,"endTime":511.206,"body":"And this is so important for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":508.356,"endTime":511.206,"body":"modeling, like you mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":511.296,"endTime":514.176,"body":"and that's, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":511.296,"endTime":514.176,"body":"was the argument I made when"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":514.176,"endTime":517.086,"body":"I taught fluid mechanics to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":514.176,"endTime":517.086,"body":"fire protection engineers."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":517.806,"endTime":519.366,"body":"Why are we ever going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":517.806,"endTime":519.366,"body":"to need this equation?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":519.366,"endTime":522.906,"body":"I'm like, well, twenty-five"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":519.366,"endTime":522.906,"body":"years ago, practicing engineer."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":523.056,"endTime":525.336,"body":"No, you're not going to need"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":523.056,"endTime":525.336,"body":"to do more than pipes for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":525.336,"endTime":528.306,"body":"sprinklers, except yet, wait,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":525.336,"endTime":528.306,"body":"you are, because you're going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":528.306,"endTime":531.156,"body":"to run a CFD code and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":528.306,"endTime":531.156,"body":"put garbage into a black box."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":531.186,"endTime":532.206,"body":"You get garbage out."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":533.406,"endTime":534.276,"body":"How are you going to do grid?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":534.306,"endTime":535.836,"body":"How are you going to run a CFD?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":536.676,"endTime":540.936,"body":"If you don't understand, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":536.676,"endTime":540.936,"body":"know, the basics fluid mechanics"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":540.936,"endTime":543.936,"body":"and what goes into a Navier"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":540.936,"endTime":543.936,"body":"Stokes equation, do you need"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":543.936,"endTime":545.916,"body":"to solve it for a CFD code?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":545.946,"endTime":548.916,"body":"No, but you need to know the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":545.946,"endTime":548.916,"body":"pieces that work and what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":548.916,"endTime":553.176,"body":"assumed, and what's not because"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":548.916,"endTime":553.176,"body":"you know it, if you were"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":553.176,"endTime":556.296,"body":"installing a sprinkler system,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":553.176,"endTime":556.296,"body":"if you don't think of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":557.226,"endTime":560.856,"body":"pressure at the head, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":557.226,"endTime":560.856,"body":"you, you can arrive at so many."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":561.276,"endTime":562.566,"body":"There's so many factors."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":563.066,"endTime":564.726,"body":"And so I focus on that."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":564.726,"endTime":567.816,"body":"I think people should have that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":564.726,"endTime":567.816,"body":"fundamental understanding so"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":567.816,"endTime":570.906,"body":"they can think of what would"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":567.816,"endTime":570.906,"body":"happen, and be surprised when"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":570.906,"endTime":573.276,"body":"something unusual happens"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":570.906,"endTime":573.276,"body":"and try to figure it out."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":573.396,"endTime":576.846,"body":"I think that kind of knowledge"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":573.396,"endTime":576.846,"body":"is important for, for all fields"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":576.846,"endTime":580.116,"body":"dealing with fire and let's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":576.846,"endTime":580.116,"body":"face it fires kind of dangerous."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":580.116,"endTime":582.066,"body":"It's, it's good to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":580.116,"endTime":582.066,"body":"get an intuitive sense"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":582.066,"endTime":582.806,"body":"of what's happening."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":582.951,"endTime":584.721,"body":"However,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":582.951,"endTime":584.721,"body":"that intuitive sense is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":584.751,"endTime":586.451,"body":"very difficult in fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":586.761,"endTime":587.901,"body":"This is my theory."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":588.381,"endTime":591.471,"body":"People think in a linear"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":588.381,"endTime":591.471,"body":"manner and fires are very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":591.471,"endTime":595.711,"body":"non-linear and for example,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":591.471,"endTime":595.711,"body":"we're in the commissioning"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":595.711,"endTime":597.481,"body":"a road tunnel now in Poland."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":598.111,"endTime":601.041,"body":"And we were doing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":598.111,"endTime":601.041,"body":"a test fire in the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":602.166,"endTime":605.306,"body":"in which we wanted to set"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":602.166,"endTime":605.306,"body":"he detector above where we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":605.306,"endTime":606.596,"body":"were located with the fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":607.286,"endTime":610.626,"body":"So we've done approximately"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":607.286,"endTime":610.626,"body":"one megawatt pool fire in it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":611.406,"endTime":612.756,"body":"And,  everyone was, yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":612.756,"endTime":613.666,"body":"That's not big enough."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":613.696,"endTime":615.036,"body":"That's really a small fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":615.066,"endTime":616.846,"body":"We need a bigger"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":615.066,"endTime":616.846,"body":"fire to set that up."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.116,"endTime":617.326,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.326,"endTime":620.446,"body":"So we've done like 1.3"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.326,"endTime":620.446,"body":"megawatt fire, a little bigger."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":620.446,"endTime":622.266,"body":"We've merged the pans together."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":622.941,"endTime":623.871,"body":"It was a bigger fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":623.871,"endTime":626.001,"body":"They were like, no, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":623.871,"endTime":626.001,"body":"this fire is not that big."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":626.101,"endTime":627.841,"body":"So we've pushed it to the limit."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":627.871,"endTime":630.181,"body":"And from our pans we've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":627.871,"endTime":630.181,"body":"received like something,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":630.421,"endTime":631.921,"body":"1.7 megawatt fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":632.071,"endTime":634.911,"body":"That's not a huge,  change"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":632.071,"endTime":634.911,"body":"if you consider it's only"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":634.911,"endTime":638.211,"body":"400 kilowatts more, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":634.911,"endTime":638.211,"body":"at this fire, everyone was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":638.211,"endTime":640.221,"body":"like, oh my God, you're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":638.211,"endTime":640.221,"body":"going to destroy the tunnel."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":640.221,"endTime":641.221,"body":"That fire is too big..."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":641.241,"endTime":644.251,"body":"And like, no, no, it's just,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":641.241,"endTime":644.251,"body":"it's the same incremental rise"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":644.251,"endTime":647.961,"body":"as the previous one it's, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":644.251,"endTime":647.961,"body":"just, you know, radiation is in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":647.961,"endTime":649.281,"body":"the fourth power of temperature."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":649.281,"endTime":652.761,"body":"So if we change the temperature"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":649.281,"endTime":652.761,"body":"by a few hundred degrees, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":652.761,"endTime":655.951,"body":"are starting to feel it on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":652.761,"endTime":655.951,"body":"your skin and this,  if you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":656.161,"endTime":659.041,"body":"don't know the fundamentals,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":656.161,"endTime":659.041,"body":"if you don't recognize the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":659.041,"endTime":662.751,"body":"fact , radiation is the fourth"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":659.041,"endTime":662.751,"body":"power of temperature or that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":662.751,"endTime":666.991,"body":"the plume flow is in the 3/2"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":662.751,"endTime":666.991,"body":"to power  of heat release rate."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":667.451,"endTime":670.421,"body":"You lose the ability because he"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":667.451,"endTime":670.421,"body":"will think that things change"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":670.451,"endTime":672.201,"body":"linearly and they are not."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":672.921,"endTime":676.881,"body":"And the second story, when I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":672.921,"endTime":676.881,"body":"discovered the importance of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":676.881,"endTime":679.941,"body":"combustion and that segways"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":676.881,"endTime":679.941,"body":"to the inclined fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":680.571,"endTime":684.471,"body":"I,  approach the project in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":680.571,"endTime":684.471,"body":"my career where we wanted to,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":684.551,"endTime":689.191,"body":"determine the consequences"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":684.551,"endTime":689.191,"body":"of the fire of a large screen"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":689.341,"endTime":691.981,"body":"that was hanged underneath"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":689.341,"endTime":691.981,"body":"the sports arena roof."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":692.011,"endTime":694.141,"body":"You know, like these huge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":692.011,"endTime":694.141,"body":"boxes they have in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":694.141,"endTime":695.221,"body":"middle of sports arenas."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":695.791,"endTime":698.221,"body":"So I wanted to figure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":695.791,"endTime":698.221,"body":"out what's the size of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":698.221,"endTime":699.361,"body":"the fire of that thing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":699.901,"endTime":703.081,"body":"And there was absolutely no"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":699.901,"endTime":703.081,"body":"resources that would allow me,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":703.141,"endTime":706.471,"body":"but it's made of like simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":703.141,"endTime":706.471,"body":"plastics ABS or something."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":707.041,"endTime":708.781,"body":"So I figured out, okay,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":707.041,"endTime":708.781,"body":"let's calculate it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":709.546,"endTime":710.546,"body":"And it's okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":710.576,"endTime":712.506,"body":"I didn't, we made up"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":710.576,"endTime":712.506,"body":"the number at the end."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":712.506,"endTime":714.516,"body":"I was not able to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":712.506,"endTime":714.516,"body":"calculate that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":714.936,"endTime":719.646,"body":"So here, this inclined fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":714.936,"endTime":719.646,"body":"spread, if you are able to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":719.646,"endTime":721.786,"body":"solve that,  that's brilliant."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":721.786,"endTime":723.646,"body":"And that's something you've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":721.786,"endTime":723.646,"body":"done in your PhD, right?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":723.646,"endTime":728.016,"body":"You are testing  inclination"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":723.646,"endTime":728.016,"body":"aspect on the flame spread that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":728.016,"endTime":728.286,"body":"Tell me"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":728.341,"endTime":729.751,"body":"Careful"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":728.341,"endTime":729.751,"body":"how you stated, what"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":729.751,"endTime":730.981,"body":"would you state solved it?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":731.251,"endTime":732.301,"body":"Oh, not at all."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":732.491,"endTime":733.891,"body":"We found new nuances."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":733.921,"endTime":736.671,"body":"No, I mean, the point we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":733.921,"endTime":736.671,"body":"came up with was that the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":736.671,"endTime":740.381,"body":"burning rate in this pyrolysis"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":736.671,"endTime":740.381,"body":"region, varies differently"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":740.441,"endTime":741.791,"body":"than the heating downstream."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":742.391,"endTime":747.341,"body":"And so as you incline the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":742.391,"endTime":747.341,"body":"fuel, it may spread fastest"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":747.581,"endTime":751.121,"body":"at a different angle than"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":747.581,"endTime":751.121,"body":"which it burns the fastest."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":751.121,"endTime":753.761,"body":"So the heat release rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":751.121,"endTime":753.761,"body":"and the spread rate aren't"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":753.761,"endTime":755.051,"body":"necessarily correlated."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":755.711,"endTime":760.001,"body":"And to me, this goes"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":755.711,"endTime":760.001,"body":"back to flammability."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":760.061,"endTime":762.161,"body":"How do you classify"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":760.061,"endTime":762.161,"body":"flammability?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":762.821,"endTime":765.641,"body":"Flammability now has to take"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":762.821,"endTime":765.641,"body":"into account geometry, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":765.641,"endTime":769.271,"body":"we always knew it did for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":765.641,"endTime":769.271,"body":"thickness of a material, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":769.451,"endTime":770.681,"body":"you incline it differently."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":770.681,"endTime":773.081,"body":"The fire may spread differently"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":770.681,"endTime":773.081,"body":"under earth gravity."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":773.141,"endTime":774.631,"body":"Let's not even get"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":773.141,"endTime":774.631,"body":"into microgravity"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":774.661,"endTime":775.131,"body":"No, no, no,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":775.181,"endTime":778.341,"body":"We can get"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":775.181,"endTime":778.341,"body":"there later, but you have to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":778.371,"endTime":782.811,"body":"consider that the behavior"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":778.371,"endTime":782.811,"body":"of how the flame is centered"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":782.811,"endTime":785.001,"body":"over there and how the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":782.811,"endTime":785.001,"body":"heat's transferred, which has"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":785.001,"endTime":788.001,"body":"something to do with radiation"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":785.001,"endTime":788.001,"body":"and the shape of the flame."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":788.421,"endTime":790.201,"body":"And then how it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":788.421,"endTime":790.201,"body":"transferred downstream,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":790.356,"endTime":793.296,"body":"how the plume attaches and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":790.356,"endTime":793.296,"body":"how that changes, where the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":793.296,"endTime":798.006,"body":"angle, those two mechanisms"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":793.296,"endTime":798.006,"body":"sometimes are aligned of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":798.006,"endTime":800.856,"body":"when they increase and other"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":798.006,"endTime":800.856,"body":"times they, they deviate."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":801.096,"endTime":804.546,"body":"And so you can have flames"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":801.096,"endTime":804.546,"body":"that spread really fast, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":805.116,"endTime":806.376,"body":"don't have a high burning rate."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":806.376,"endTime":809.596,"body":"And then another time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":806.376,"endTime":809.596,"body":"you can have the pool fire with"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":809.616,"endTime":812.886,"body":"a high burning rate, but almost"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":809.616,"endTime":812.886,"body":"no spread rate because just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":812.886,"endTime":814.566,"body":"the angle and the radiation."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":814.566,"endTime":814.776,"body":"And so."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":815.276,"endTime":817.856,"body":"You know, if you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":815.276,"endTime":817.856,"body":"saying flammability, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":817.856,"endTime":820.376,"body":"very hard to say, do you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":817.856,"endTime":820.376,"body":"mean the ignitability?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":820.406,"endTime":822.596,"body":"Do you mean the potential"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":820.406,"endTime":822.596,"body":"heat release rate?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":822.626,"endTime":824.726,"body":"Do you mean the maximum"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":822.626,"endTime":824.726,"body":"potential spread rate?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":825.176,"endTime":827.726,"body":"Because sometimes the material,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":825.176,"endTime":827.726,"body":"all of those are high."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":828.026,"endTime":829.706,"body":"Sometimes only one of them is."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":829.856,"endTime":833.366,"body":"And so I think it just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":829.856,"endTime":833.366,"body":"goes back to what I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":833.366,"endTime":834.626,"body":"saying for combustion."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":835.076,"endTime":838.286,"body":"You don't want to think of just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":835.076,"endTime":838.286,"body":"an outcome and that's why I"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":838.286,"endTime":840.206,"body":"sometimes hate pass, fail tests."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":840.746,"endTime":842.506,"body":"I always like to think."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":842.511,"endTime":843.591,"body":"I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":842.511,"endTime":843.591,"body":"doing them for a living."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":844.846,"endTime":846.916,"body":"I know, and,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":844.846,"endTime":846.916,"body":"and we work with them too,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":846.946,"endTime":849.38,"body":"but you know, you want to, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":846.946,"endTime":849.38,"body":"want to get a number and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":849.38,"endTime":852.23,"body":"want to know why you have it so"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":849.38,"endTime":852.23,"body":"that you can really classify."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":852.26,"endTime":853.88,"body":"I mean, there has"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":852.26,"endTime":853.88,"body":"to be a line drawn."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":854.36,"endTime":855.26,"body":"That makes sense."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":855.29,"endTime":859.11,"body":"I mean, you have to choose"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":855.29,"endTime":859.11,"body":"a line, that works, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":859.11,"endTime":863.28,"body":"you also have to think that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":859.11,"endTime":863.28,"body":"there's a reason why something"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":863.28,"endTime":864.96,"body":"is behaving worse or not."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":865.29,"endTime":866.49,"body":"That allows you to improve."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":867.37,"endTime":869.71,"body":"And that allows you to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":867.37,"endTime":869.71,"body":"think of, well, in a real"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":869.71,"endTime":872.71,"body":"situation, that's this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":869.71,"endTime":872.71,"body":"test actually testing"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":872.71,"endTime":874.63,"body":"reality or not, you know?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":875.14,"endTime":878.62,"body":"So is this material going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":875.14,"endTime":878.62,"body":"be flammable in the situation"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":878.62,"endTime":880.15,"body":"that I'm applying it?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":880.18,"endTime":881.71,"body":"Is it right next"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":880.18,"endTime":881.71,"body":"to a heat source?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":881.71,"endTime":882.91,"body":"Is there something different?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":882.91,"endTime":889.06,"body":"So that's why we see so much"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":882.91,"endTime":889.06,"body":"work in fire because that isn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":889.06,"endTime":890.86,"body":"always taken into consideration."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":891.22,"endTime":893.26,"body":"And even though a material"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":891.22,"endTime":893.26,"body":"or something passed the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":893.26,"endTime":896.08,"body":"test, it then fails and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":893.26,"endTime":896.08,"body":"we have a lot of work."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":896.246,"endTime":898.493,"body":"You've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":896.246,"endTime":898.493,"body":"mentioned the pyrolysis zone"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":898.493,"endTime":899.753,"body":"and because I'm prepared."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":899.753,"endTime":904.973,"body":"I know there's a pyrolysis zone,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":899.753,"endTime":904.973,"body":"a flame zone and plume zone."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":905.393,"endTime":908.333,"body":"And, but I would love"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":905.393,"endTime":908.333,"body":"if you could, tell the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":909.113,"endTime":913.023,"body":"listeners how these zones,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":909.113,"endTime":913.023,"body":"differ from each other and."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":913.878,"endTime":916.618,"body":"Like what's driving"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":913.878,"endTime":916.618,"body":"the phenomenon in each."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":916.718,"endTime":919.298,"body":"What differs and where is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":916.718,"endTime":919.298,"body":"the boundary between them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":919.298,"endTime":923.908,"body":"Because you said that the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":919.298,"endTime":923.908,"body":"spread may be not the same thing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":923.908,"endTime":926.938,"body":"as the, let's say, peak heat"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":923.908,"endTime":926.938,"body":"release rate, or you may have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":926.938,"endTime":929.638,"body":"quicker spread or maybe larger"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":926.938,"endTime":929.638,"body":"heat release rate, but not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":929.638,"endTime":931.848,"body":"necessarily at the same angle."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":932.058,"endTime":934.898,"body":"So where would be that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":932.058,"endTime":934.898,"body":"boundary that differentiates"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":934.898,"endTime":938.828,"body":"between the spread and the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":934.898,"endTime":938.828,"body":"maximum heat release rate?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":938.858,"endTime":940.538,"body":"That's like, wow,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":938.858,"endTime":940.538,"body":"that's fascinating."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":941.038,"endTime":941.338,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":941.388,"endTime":944.941,"body":"So when we talk about this,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":941.388,"endTime":944.941,"body":"we're thinking about pyrolysis."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":945.475,"endTime":949.225,"body":"Pyrolysis is just the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":945.475,"endTime":949.225,"body":"burning material coming out."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":949.525,"endTime":953.905,"body":"So as we know, you know, it's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":949.525,"endTime":953.905,"body":"let's say we have a piece of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":953.905,"endTime":956.965,"body":"plastic, so it's the solid"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":953.905,"endTime":956.965,"body":"plastic stuff that's burning,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":956.995,"endTime":962.125,"body":"but it's not burning while it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":956.995,"endTime":962.125,"body":"a solid it's, being vaporized."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":962.465,"endTime":965.185,"body":"So you're getting pyrolysis"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":962.465,"endTime":965.185,"body":"gases as we call it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":965.185,"endTime":968.185,"body":"So flammable vapors are coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":965.185,"endTime":968.185,"body":"out from the heat, from the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":968.185,"endTime":971.425,"body":"fire or the surroundings,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":968.185,"endTime":971.425,"body":"and those are igniting."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":972.55,"endTime":974.57,"body":"And then we have what we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":972.55,"endTime":974.57,"body":"call a diffusion flame."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":974.92,"endTime":977.02,"body":"Oxygen, the fuel"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":974.92,"endTime":977.02,"body":"they meet together."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":977.02,"endTime":979.45,"body":"they burn, it's not like"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":977.02,"endTime":979.45,"body":"your stove, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":979.48,"endTime":980.8,"body":"premixed and beautiful blue."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":981.1,"endTime":986.02,"body":"Instead we get our sooty yellow"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":981.1,"endTime":986.02,"body":"flame with it's not perfect,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":986.05,"endTime":987.49,"body":"but the fuel and oxygen meats."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":987.49,"endTime":990.94,"body":"So let's imagine it's just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":987.49,"endTime":990.94,"body":"this flat piece of plastic."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":991.25,"endTime":992.92,"body":"You get the fire burning on top."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":992.92,"endTime":995.47,"body":"You have that nice yellow"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":992.92,"endTime":995.47,"body":"flame, that whole region"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":995.47,"endTime":996.34,"body":"of the plastic burning."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":996.34,"endTime":997.51,"body":"That's your pyrolysis zone."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":997.54,"endTime":998.74,"body":"That's the area that's actually."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":999.24,"endTime":1001.85,"body":"Now, if you take that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":999.24,"endTime":1001.85,"body":"the flame goes up, we call"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1001.85,"endTime":1003.41,"body":"that a pool fire, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1003.44,"endTime":1005.06,"body":"The flame cause rising up."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1007.25,"body":"And there's all beautiful"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1005.06,"endTime":1007.25,"body":"correlations for how"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1007.25,"endTime":1008.33,"body":"high that plume might be."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1009.14,"endTime":1012.08,"body":"Now, if you tilt that and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1009.14,"endTime":1012.08,"body":"you put it vertically up,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1012.58,"endTime":1015.73,"body":"part of that is still that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1012.58,"endTime":1015.73,"body":"pyrolysis zone that's burning."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1016.09,"endTime":1017.5,"body":"And some of that flame goes up."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1017.5,"endTime":1021.28,"body":"Buoyancy is creating a flow"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1017.5,"endTime":1021.28,"body":"in driving that flame up."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1021.79,"endTime":1025.21,"body":"But now that flame is no longer"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1021.79,"endTime":1025.21,"body":"pointing straight in the air."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1025.95,"endTime":1028.29,"body":"All along that surface,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1025.95,"endTime":1028.29,"body":"cause that surface is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1028.29,"endTime":1029.67,"body":"vertical piece of plastic."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1029.672,"endTime":1033.122,"body":"And so all of that zone"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1029.672,"endTime":1033.122,"body":"ahead of that burning region"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1033.662,"endTime":1035.132,"body":"is getting hot, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1035.372,"endTime":1039.932,"body":"That flame is adding a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1035.372,"endTime":1039.932,"body":"of heat to the unburned, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1039.932,"endTime":1042.602,"body":"virgin materials as it's often"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1039.932,"endTime":1042.602,"body":"called in the literature."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1042.602,"endTime":1046.472,"body":"So as that material heats up,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1042.602,"endTime":1046.472,"body":"it's eventually going to get."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1047.387,"endTime":1048.797,"body":"And that's going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1047.387,"endTime":1048.797,"body":"cause flame spread."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1048.827,"endTime":1049.907,"body":"So flame spread."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1050.177,"endTime":1051.377,"body":"It's just this process."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1051.617,"endTime":1054.467,"body":"You have the burning,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1051.617,"endTime":1054.467,"body":"depending on the geometry"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1054.467,"endTime":1057.487,"body":"and the conditions, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1054.467,"endTime":1057.487,"body":"flame has heat transferred"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1057.497,"endTime":1058.637,"body":"to stuff that hasn't burned."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1059.057,"endTime":1061.667,"body":"Eventually the stuff that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1059.057,"endTime":1061.667,"body":"hasn't burned ignites and it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1061.667,"endTime":1063.797,"body":"spreads and it can be constant."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1064.127,"endTime":1066.227,"body":"So in like what we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1064.127,"endTime":1066.227,"body":"call thermally thin."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1066.257,"endTime":1069.767,"body":"So like a piece of paper, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1066.257,"endTime":1069.767,"body":"may burn sort of constant."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1069.767,"endTime":1072.287,"body":"So the same amount of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1069.767,"endTime":1072.287,"body":"stuff is burning because it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1072.287,"endTime":1075.197,"body":"burns out really quick and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1072.287,"endTime":1075.197,"body":"a thick piece of plastic."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1076.427,"endTime":1077.957,"body":"The plastic just keeps going."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1078.257,"endTime":1082.367,"body":"And so that material can just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1078.257,"endTime":1082.367,"body":"accelerate because more and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1082.367,"endTime":1083.987,"body":"more stuff is burning over time."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1084.677,"endTime":1088.467,"body":"And a lot of times in like a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1084.677,"endTime":1088.467,"body":"wildfire, it is acceleratory"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1088.487,"endTime":1091.427,"body":"over a slope because"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1088.487,"endTime":1091.427,"body":"more and more materials"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1091.427,"endTime":1092.567,"body":"burning as it goes up."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1093.047,"endTime":1097.907,"body":"And so even though we talk about"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1093.047,"endTime":1097.907,"body":"solving for how fast the fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1097.907,"endTime":1101.687,"body":"may spread, that number is just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1097.907,"endTime":1101.687,"body":"some estimate because really"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1101.687,"endTime":1103.307,"body":"it's changing constantly over."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1104.207,"endTime":1106.217,"body":"Because more and more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1104.207,"endTime":1106.217,"body":"things are being ignited."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1106.457,"endTime":1110.537,"body":"So those are sort of the stages"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1106.457,"endTime":1110.537,"body":"when we think about it and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1110.537,"endTime":1114.767,"body":"then the heating in any zone,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1110.537,"endTime":1114.767,"body":"they're not necessarily coupled."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1115.067,"endTime":1118.877,"body":"So the heating to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1115.067,"endTime":1118.877,"body":"stuff that's burning when"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1118.877,"endTime":1122.057,"body":"it's a pool fire, you've"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1118.877,"endTime":1122.057,"body":"got a big flame on top."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1122.057,"endTime":1124.457,"body":"And if it's radiation"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1122.057,"endTime":1124.457,"body":"dominated, yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1124.537,"endTime":1127.117,"body":"The bigger, the flame,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1124.537,"endTime":1127.117,"body":"the radiation is going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1127.117,"endTime":1128.407,"body":"straight down into the pool."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1128.557,"endTime":1130.057,"body":"And so it's getting"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1128.557,"endTime":1130.057,"body":"a lot of heat there."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1130.627,"endTime":1134.872,"body":"Now we tilt it vertically"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1130.627,"endTime":1134.872,"body":"and the area above that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1134.872,"endTime":1136.432,"body":"now getting a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1134.872,"endTime":1136.432,"body":"heat from the flame, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1136.432,"endTime":1137.512,"body":"the flame has stretched."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1137.692,"endTime":1140.242,"body":"So now there's less"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1137.692,"endTime":1140.242,"body":"flame heating the burning"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1140.242,"endTime":1142.402,"body":"region, but more heating"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1140.242,"endTime":1142.402,"body":"the spreading region."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1142.912,"endTime":1146.062,"body":"And so there, you kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1142.912,"endTime":1146.062,"body":"have this balance of some"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1146.062,"endTime":1149.182,"body":"regions might have faster"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1146.062,"endTime":1149.182,"body":"spread, but the burning rate"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1149.182,"endTime":1151.282,"body":"starts to go down because"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1149.182,"endTime":1151.282,"body":"the flame isn't painting"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1151.282,"endTime":1153.142,"body":"it as well and vice versa."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1153.622,"endTime":1154.942,"body":"And it's not just by angle."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1155.182,"endTime":1157.642,"body":"It depends on how big it is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1155.182,"endTime":1157.642,"body":"the bigger the flame, the more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1157.642,"endTime":1159.232,"body":"radiation, less convection."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1159.622,"endTime":1162.192,"body":"So these factors all"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1159.622,"endTime":1162.192,"body":"play with each other."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1162.612,"endTime":1164.532,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1162.612,"endTime":1164.532,"body":"theater of different heat"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1164.532,"endTime":1167.502,"body":"transfer modes is fascinating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1167.562,"endTime":1168.192,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1169.182,"endTime":1172.012,"body":"To my, fellow engineer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1169.182,"endTime":1172.012,"body":"practitioners."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1172.042,"endTime":1176.502,"body":"This is so, more practical"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1172.042,"endTime":1176.502,"body":"than you would think, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1176.952,"endTime":1180.642,"body":"if you consider, for example,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1176.952,"endTime":1180.642,"body":"a facade fire, that's exactly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1180.642,"endTime":1181.782,"body":"what Michael described."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1182.112,"endTime":1186.732,"body":"It's a thin flame on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1182.112,"endTime":1186.732,"body":"surface of a vertical body."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1187.392,"endTime":1192.192,"body":"And even if your facade let's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1187.392,"endTime":1192.192,"body":"say is incombustible, You"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1192.222,"endTime":1195.572,"body":"still have this heat transfer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1192.222,"endTime":1195.572,"body":"to the facade, which, let's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1195.572,"endTime":1197.612,"body":"say is aimed at destruction."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1197.612,"endTime":1200.642,"body":"It will cause some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1197.612,"endTime":1200.642,"body":"mechanical failure of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1201.092,"endTime":1202.352,"body":"elements sooner or later."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1202.712,"endTime":1207.722,"body":"But now we, as the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1202.712,"endTime":1207.722,"body":"scientists or fire engineers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1208.172,"endTime":1210.662,"body":"were often, and I had a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1208.172,"endTime":1210.662,"body":"podcast episode about it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1210.662,"endTime":1213.112,"body":"We often focused on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1210.662,"endTime":1213.112,"body":"measuring temperatures."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1213.612,"endTime":1218.222,"body":"So if you pluck a thin"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1213.612,"endTime":1218.222,"body":"thermocouple into your inclined"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1218.222,"endTime":1220.362,"body":"fire, into your pool fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1220.872,"endTime":1224.832,"body":"The number will be roughly the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1220.872,"endTime":1224.832,"body":"same, probably even higher in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1224.832,"endTime":1228.432,"body":"your vertical fire because of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1224.832,"endTime":1228.432,"body":"the better better diffusion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1228.432,"endTime":1228.702,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1229.002,"endTime":1234.072,"body":"But if you would calculate the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1229.002,"endTime":1234.072,"body":"heat transfer during the second"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1234.072,"endTime":1237.702,"body":"of the burning to your surface"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1234.072,"endTime":1237.702,"body":"element, that's next to that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1238.677,"endTime":1240.507,"body":"It could be much less."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1240.507,"endTime":1243.497,"body":"And,  it's, as engineers,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1240.507,"endTime":1243.497,"body":"we often focus so much on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1243.497,"endTime":1247.367,"body":"temperatures and the temperature"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1243.497,"endTime":1247.367,"body":"in my, on my wall at the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1247.367,"endTime":1249.257,"body":"flame was like, 500 degrees."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1249.257,"endTime":1250.007,"body":"That's horrible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1250.397,"endTime":1252.647,"body":"But you never take into"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1250.397,"endTime":1252.647,"body":"account that it was."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1253.392,"endTime":1257.682,"body":"Five centimeter thin flame,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1253.392,"endTime":1257.682,"body":"which has a radiation factor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1257.682,"endTime":1260.592,"body":"of like, oh, 0.1 or something,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1257.682,"endTime":1260.592,"body":"because it's very thin."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1261.072,"endTime":1263.862,"body":"So it doesn't really matter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1261.072,"endTime":1263.862,"body":"that temperature was that high."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1264.342,"endTime":1268.792,"body":"And, only when you, are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1264.342,"endTime":1268.792,"body":"aware of this phenomenon,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1269.362,"endTime":1272.072,"body":"you are able to actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1269.362,"endTime":1272.072,"body":"quantify the threats, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1272.182,"endTime":1272.602,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1272.632,"endTime":1275.662,"body":"And, and this isn't just in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1272.632,"endTime":1275.662,"body":"the fire protection field."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1275.662,"endTime":1279.022,"body":"I mean, in wildfire, which I"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1275.662,"endTime":1279.022,"body":"do a lot of work and, and, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1279.022,"endTime":1284.092,"body":"know, caring California, there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1279.022,"endTime":1284.092,"body":"an awful lot, you know, this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1284.092,"endTime":1285.572,"body":"temperature was much hotter."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1286.072,"endTime":1287.052,"body":"was it really hotter?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1287.662,"endTime":1288.352,"body":"It was higher than"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1288.352,"endTime":1289.342,"body":"melting point of steel."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1289.852,"endTime":1292.372,"body":"Yes, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1289.852,"endTime":1292.372,"body":"it's, it's all about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1292.372,"endTime":1295.792,"body":"radiation and it's all about,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1292.372,"endTime":1295.792,"body":"I mean, it convection too,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1295.792,"endTime":1297.382,"body":"but it's about the heat flux."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1297.482,"endTime":1299.972,"body":"I'm teaching heat"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1297.482,"endTime":1299.972,"body":"transfer to mechanical"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1299.972,"endTime":1301.112,"body":"engineers this semester."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1301.112,"endTime":1305.372,"body":"And so explaining the importance"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1301.112,"endTime":1305.372,"body":"of heat flux is, is a major"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1305.372,"endTime":1307.875,"body":"goal of the class because"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1305.372,"endTime":1307.875,"body":"temperature is going to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1307.875,"endTime":1310.875,"body":"important if you're worried"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1307.875,"endTime":1310.875,"body":"about the steel object and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1310.875,"endTime":1314.295,"body":"whether it starts to degrade"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1310.875,"endTime":1314.295,"body":"or the glass, and it's going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1314.295,"endTime":1318.285,"body":"to shatter, or whether you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1314.295,"endTime":1318.285,"body":"at the point of ignition of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1318.285,"endTime":1320.895,"body":"material, because the thermal"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1318.285,"endTime":1320.895,"body":"theory works pretty well."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1321.825,"endTime":1324.405,"body":"But if you want to understand"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1321.825,"endTime":1324.405,"body":"the heating and whether"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1324.405,"endTime":1327.465,"body":"something will ignite, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1324.405,"endTime":1327.465,"body":"got to be heat flux, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1327.465,"endTime":1331.845,"body":"is the rate of heating, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1327.465,"endTime":1331.845,"body":"causes that temperature rise."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1332.355,"endTime":1332.955,"body":"And so."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1333.865,"endTime":1336.175,"body":"Most people in the,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1333.865,"endTime":1336.175,"body":"in the public don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1336.175,"endTime":1337.615,"body":"understand that nuance."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1337.735,"endTime":1341.005,"body":"Like you said, it's critical"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1337.735,"endTime":1341.005,"body":"to actually getting a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1341.005,"endTime":1342.565,"body":"fundamental understanding."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1342.665,"endTime":1345.035,"body":"And I was actually, before"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1342.665,"endTime":1345.035,"body":"you said it, facade fires"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1345.065,"endTime":1349.385,"body":"are just a perfect example"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1345.065,"endTime":1349.385,"body":"of where this comes to play"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1349.865,"endTime":1351.005,"body":"and not just the facade."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1351.005,"endTime":1353.525,"body":"So you could have flames coming"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1351.005,"endTime":1353.525,"body":"out of a window up ahead."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1353.915,"endTime":1356.285,"body":"You could have it burning over"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1353.915,"endTime":1356.285,"body":"these flammable substrates they"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1356.285,"endTime":1359.265,"body":"put on, but, I think it was"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1356.285,"endTime":1359.265,"body":"a student of Jose Torero when"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1359.265,"endTime":1362.635,"body":"I first started at Maryland"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1359.265,"endTime":1362.635,"body":"visited, and was working"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1362.665,"endTime":1366.295,"body":"before everything was really"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1362.665,"endTime":1366.295,"body":"well known about these facade"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1366.295,"endTime":1370.135,"body":"fire issues, where they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1366.295,"endTime":1370.135,"body":"looking at that flow in gaps."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1370.225,"endTime":1372.745,"body":"So what if you had a gap"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1370.225,"endTime":1372.745,"body":"between two materials?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1373.165,"endTime":1376.495,"body":"Why would we have a cavity"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1373.165,"endTime":1376.495,"body":"flammable facades, right."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1376.495,"endTime":1378.835,"body":"You fill it with"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1376.495,"endTime":1378.835,"body":"expandable foam, the foam."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1380.08,"endTime":1382.95,"body":"And now the heat's reradiated"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1380.08,"endTime":1382.95,"body":"and the foam burns out"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1382.95,"endTime":1384.54,"body":"super quickly and it drips."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1384.96,"endTime":1388.32,"body":"And so, even though it passed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1384.96,"endTime":1388.32,"body":"the test, when you specially"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1388.32,"endTime":1392.4,"body":"sealed it, when you actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1388.32,"endTime":1392.4,"body":"put it on a building, there's so"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1392.4,"endTime":1394.8,"body":"many fire safety hazards there,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1395.09,"endTime":1396.55,"body":"Because scale matters."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1396.97,"endTime":1398.51,"body":"It's a different animal."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1398.51,"endTime":1401.57,"body":"When you put it on a 10"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1398.51,"endTime":1401.57,"body":"meter, long wall, three"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1401.57,"endTime":1404.27,"body":"meters tall, then a small"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1401.57,"endTime":1404.27,"body":"sample in your facilities."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1404.81,"endTime":1407.6,"body":"And also if you make a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1404.81,"endTime":1407.6,"body":"facade test and you are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1408.17,"endTime":1411.29,"body":"lucky with the placing your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1408.17,"endTime":1411.29,"body":"cavity barriers just below"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1411.29,"endTime":1412.43,"body":"the thermal couple levels."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1412.79,"endTime":1413.96,"body":"Well, congratulations."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1413.96,"endTime":1415.48,"body":"You've passed the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1413.96,"endTime":1415.48,"body":"test, but, . Nope."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1415.75,"endTime":1417.94,"body":"It's difficult for me to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1415.75,"endTime":1417.94,"body":"do these statements because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1417.94,"endTime":1418.84,"body":"I know it's ridiculous."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1418.84,"endTime":1422.32,"body":"And I run the fire lab,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1418.84,"endTime":1422.32,"body":"so it's, I hope I don't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1422.32,"endTime":1424.06,"body":"get fired for this, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1424.095,"endTime":1424.845,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1424.885,"endTime":1427.545,"body":"I mean, but this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1424.885,"endTime":1427.545,"body":"is what I'm saying."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1427.545,"endTime":1428.565,"body":"I mean, we need tests."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1428.565,"endTime":1432.675,"body":"We need to define a line between"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1428.565,"endTime":1432.675,"body":"where we consider acceptable."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1432.855,"endTime":1434.295,"body":"Nothing's a hundred"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1432.855,"endTime":1434.295,"body":"percent safe."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1434.505,"endTime":1437.655,"body":"It's never going to be, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1434.505,"endTime":1437.655,"body":"what's that acceptable level"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1437.655,"endTime":1440.355,"body":"that we want to strive for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1437.655,"endTime":1440.355,"body":"where we can mitigate it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1440.405,"endTime":1442.445,"body":"The people at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1440.405,"endTime":1442.445,"body":"test labs, right."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1442.505,"endTime":1445.235,"body":"And the people designing"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1442.505,"endTime":1445.235,"body":"that's the job of the engineer"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1445.475,"endTime":1447.755,"body":"to think about these issues"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1445.475,"endTime":1447.755,"body":"and to make sure that that."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1448.445,"endTime":1451.355,"body":"Judiciously choosing"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1448.445,"endTime":1451.355,"body":"a test and judiciously"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1451.385,"endTime":1452.495,"body":"designing the material."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1452.765,"endTime":1454.895,"body":"And if you think through"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1452.765,"endTime":1454.895,"body":"the process of what a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1454.895,"endTime":1458.435,"body":"fire may do, you're doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1454.895,"endTime":1458.435,"body":"some real due diligence."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1458.555,"endTime":1460.085,"body":"I think of."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1460.03,"endTime":1461.89,"body":"I'm trying to design"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1460.03,"endTime":1461.89,"body":"a safe system."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1461.92,"endTime":1465.01,"body":"There's always unexpected,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1461.92,"endTime":1465.01,"body":"but we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1465.13,"endTime":1466.3,"body":"that's we keep learning."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1466.33,"endTime":1467.62,"body":"That's why we listen."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1467.62,"endTime":1469.75,"body":"There's the research"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1467.62,"endTime":1469.75,"body":"codes get updated."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1469.75,"endTime":1471.82,"body":"And, but that's why I"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1469.75,"endTime":1471.82,"body":"love tests that don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1471.82,"endTime":1473.44,"body":"just give a pass fail."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1473.74,"endTime":1475.72,"body":"But if we learn more, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1473.74,"endTime":1475.72,"body":"might learn that we have"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1475.72,"endTime":1477.04,"body":"to change that threshold."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1477.1,"endTime":1479.92,"body":"We have to modify and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1477.1,"endTime":1479.92,"body":"allows us to look back."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1480.965,"endTime":1482.265,"body":"Thats"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1480.965,"endTime":1482.265,"body":"one of the things that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1482.275,"endTime":1484.315,"body":"is carried through the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1482.275,"endTime":1484.315,"body":"podcast for a long time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1484.315,"endTime":1488.365,"body":"That observation is surprisingly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1484.315,"endTime":1488.365,"body":"powerful and maybe sometimes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1488.365,"endTime":1492.105,"body":"we should be more focused on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1488.365,"endTime":1492.105,"body":"seeing and understanding our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1492.105,"endTime":1495.855,"body":"experiments rather than putting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1492.105,"endTime":1495.855,"body":"a thousand thermocouples"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1495.855,"endTime":1501.565,"body":"inside and just creating an un-"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1495.855,"endTime":1501.565,"body":"uh-bearable plot of all of them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1502.135,"endTime":1504.465,"body":"You've mentioned a few"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1502.135,"endTime":1504.465,"body":"times the wildfires and the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1504.575,"endTime":1505.715,"body":"theme close to your heart."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1505.765,"endTime":1508.725,"body":"You also said that you're in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1505.765,"endTime":1508.725,"body":"this triangle of wildfires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1508.725,"endTime":1511.855,"body":"science, combustion and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1508.725,"endTime":1511.855,"body":"fire safety engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1512.095,"endTime":1513.955,"body":"That's that must be a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1512.095,"endTime":1513.955,"body":"fun position, actually."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1515.015,"endTime":1518.205,"body":"So for now in our discussion,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1515.015,"endTime":1518.205,"body":"we had the inclined fuel."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1518.415,"endTime":1522.035,"body":"We had, my huge screen or a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1518.415,"endTime":1522.035,"body":"bunch of plastic materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1522.575,"endTime":1523.775,"body":"and the against  the flame."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1523.775,"endTime":1526.895,"body":"But in wildfire, it gets more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1523.775,"endTime":1526.895,"body":"complicated because you're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1527.765,"endTime":1529.625,"body":"playing with porous fuels."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1530.317,"endTime":1531.517,"body":"Probably changes a lot."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1531.517,"endTime":1533.917,"body":"At least Sarah told me does."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1534.487,"endTime":1538.077,"body":"How would the, this,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1534.487,"endTime":1538.077,"body":"inclination play a role in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1538.077,"endTime":1542.667,"body":"wildfire and  maybe you can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1538.077,"endTime":1542.667,"body":"tell me, for example, in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1542.667,"endTime":1547.677,"body":"crown fire, w what really is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1542.667,"endTime":1547.677,"body":"driving the fire and what an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1547.677,"endTime":1551.967,"body":"engineer should know to have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1547.677,"endTime":1551.967,"body":"this intuitive understanding of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1551.967,"endTime":1553.077,"body":"what the fire could look like."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1555.432,"endTime":1555.912,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1555.972,"endTime":1557.922,"body":"So, so I'll step back."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1558.162,"endTime":1559.962,"body":"Cause if we want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1558.162,"endTime":1559.962,"body":"teach for an engineer."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1559.962,"endTime":1563.172,"body":"So I was really lucky"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1559.962,"endTime":1563.172,"body":"to have the opportunity"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1563.172,"endTime":1565.602,"body":"to teach wildfire to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1563.172,"endTime":1565.602,"body":"engineers in Maryland."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1565.722,"endTime":1567.962,"body":"And, you know, the first"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1565.722,"endTime":1567.962,"body":"thing to understand is you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1567.962,"endTime":1570.092,"body":"lose control in a wildfire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1570.152,"endTime":1572.732,"body":"And I say that because in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1570.152,"endTime":1572.732,"body":"a building, we designed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1572.732,"endTime":1573.842,"body":"a fire safe system."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1573.882,"endTime":1575.812,"body":"We estimate the fuel load."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1576.172,"endTime":1577.432,"body":"What fuels can you bring in?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1577.432,"endTime":1578.692,"body":"We have suppression systems."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1578.692,"endTime":1581.242,"body":"We have barrier"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1578.692,"endTime":1581.242,"body":"walls in a wildfire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1581.242,"endTime":1582.472,"body":"You don't the weather change."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1583.015,"endTime":1587.545,"body":"And every day the sun shines"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1583.015,"endTime":1587.545,"body":"the fuel load grows, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1587.815,"endTime":1591.385,"body":"Like it's, it's continually"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1587.815,"endTime":1591.385,"body":"growing and then there's like"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1591.415,"endTime":1594.565,"body":"ecological changes and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1591.415,"endTime":1594.565,"body":"say, oh, I'll add a firebreak."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1594.655,"endTime":1597.415,"body":"Well, firebreaks"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1594.655,"endTime":1597.415,"body":"don't help very much."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1597.475,"endTime":1599.735,"body":"I mean, it's, it's more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1597.475,"endTime":1599.735,"body":"for firefighting and fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1599.735,"endTime":1603.545,"body":"suppression, to give those those"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1599.735,"endTime":1603.545,"body":"gaps, unless the fire is pretty"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1603.545,"endTime":1607.685,"body":"small, which it is sometimes"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1603.545,"endTime":1607.685,"body":"that doesn't help much."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1609.015,"endTime":1610.485,"body":"So basics of wildfire, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1610.485,"endTime":1613.395,"body":"It can spread on the ground"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1610.485,"endTime":1613.395,"body":"such as surface fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1613.865,"endTime":1616.945,"body":"It can, you know, either the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1613.865,"endTime":1616.945,"body":"smoldering fire on the surface,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1617.185,"endTime":1619.525,"body":"it can spread through the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1617.185,"endTime":1619.525,"body":"surface fuels like the brush,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1619.555,"endTime":1621.355,"body":"the grass, and the trees."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1621.715,"endTime":1625.165,"body":"And then it can also jump up to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1621.715,"endTime":1625.165,"body":"the crowds which you mentioned."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1625.345,"endTime":1628.675,"body":"And so this crown fire is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1625.345,"endTime":1628.675,"body":"often considered extremely"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1628.675,"endTime":1632.155,"body":"hazardous because the fire tends"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1628.675,"endTime":1632.155,"body":"to race both because there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1632.155,"endTime":1636.405,"body":"higher winds at the top of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1632.155,"endTime":1636.405,"body":"crowns and there's less, drag"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1636.825,"endTime":1640.115,"body":"and also because you've got"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1636.825,"endTime":1640.115,"body":"incredibly loose fuels, think"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1640.115,"endTime":1643.445,"body":"of those pine needles, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1640.115,"endTime":1643.445,"body":"also have flammable fuels in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1643.445,"endTime":1646.235,"body":"them that we haven't fully"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1643.445,"endTime":1646.235,"body":"understood Sarah McAllister,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1646.235,"endTime":1648.725,"body":"who is a previous guest, has"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1646.235,"endTime":1648.725,"body":"looked into some of that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1649.655,"endTime":1652.595,"body":"but it can spread incredibly"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1649.655,"endTime":1652.595,"body":"rapidly through those, those."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1653.615,"endTime":1656.885,"body":"You know, loose fuels and it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1653.615,"endTime":1656.885,"body":"takes some extreme conditions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1656.885,"endTime":1658.175,"body":"It has to be pretty dry."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1658.545,"endTime":1661.475,"body":"You have to have a fairly large"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1658.545,"endTime":1661.475,"body":"fire that can jump up the snags"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1661.475,"endTime":1664.295,"body":"and stuff into the crown, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1661.475,"endTime":1664.295,"body":"when you get sustained crown"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1664.295,"endTime":1666.005,"body":"fires, they do move very fast."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1666.245,"endTime":1668.555,"body":"And So, you know, in wildfire,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1666.245,"endTime":1668.555,"body":"we're often looking at"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1668.555,"endTime":1671.015,"body":"spread rates and so crown"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1668.555,"endTime":1671.015,"body":"fires are, are very fast."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1671.015,"endTime":1672.995,"body":"And I don't think they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1671.015,"endTime":1672.995,"body":"fully understood either."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1673.485,"endTime":1677.72,"body":"Another situation is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1673.485,"endTime":1677.72,"body":"fires can be driven by wind and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1677.72,"endTime":1679.34,"body":"fires can be driven by slope."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1679.34,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"And so the way it makes sense,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1679.34,"endTime":1682.55,"body":"you blow more wind the flame"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1682.58,"endTime":1686.96,"body":"tilts ahead, heats more material"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1682.58,"endTime":1686.96,"body":"faster and spreads faster."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1686.99,"endTime":1689.96,"body":"So long as the materials"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1686.99,"endTime":1689.96,"body":"they're on a slope."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1689.99,"endTime":1693.38,"body":"The same thing happens except"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1689.99,"endTime":1693.38,"body":"it's not like the wind forces."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1694.235,"endTime":1697.385,"body":"The fire pulls the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1694.235,"endTime":1697.385,"body":"wind and drives itself."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1697.385,"endTime":1700.745,"body":"And so there's a self"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1697.385,"endTime":1700.745,"body":"acceleratory process."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1700.745,"endTime":1704.195,"body":"And some of it can happen"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1700.745,"endTime":1704.195,"body":"on flat ground too, with"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1704.195,"endTime":1707.345,"body":"a big fire driving its own"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1704.195,"endTime":1707.345,"body":"weather, but oftentimes"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1707.345,"endTime":1710.765,"body":"on a slope, that's just a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1707.345,"endTime":1710.765,"body":"natural process with a fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1710.765,"endTime":1713.285,"body":"The buoyancy is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1710.765,"endTime":1713.285,"body":"pulling more air, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1713.315,"endTime":1714.455,"body":"pushes the flame down."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1714.845,"endTime":1717.935,"body":"And so it drives itself"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1714.845,"endTime":1717.935,"body":"and, and it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1718.055,"endTime":1719.645,"body":"move in a linear speed."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1719.645,"endTime":1720.635,"body":"It accelerates."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1720.905,"endTime":1723.955,"body":"It's not just like a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1720.905,"endTime":1723.955,"body":"1-D process either."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1724.765,"endTime":1728.815,"body":"So if we think of the flame"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1724.765,"endTime":1728.815,"body":"on just like a flat plane"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1729.115,"endTime":1732.715,"body":"spreading up, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1729.115,"endTime":1732.715,"body":"spread and it may accelerate."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1733.405,"endTime":1735.865,"body":"But what if you like curve"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1733.405,"endTime":1735.865,"body":"in those walls and make"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1735.865,"endTime":1737.665,"body":"it a ravine that sloped?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1738.415,"endTime":1740.845,"body":"Well now there's no air"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1738.415,"endTime":1740.845,"body":"flowing in from the sides."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1741.385,"endTime":1745.045,"body":"And now that flame has"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1741.385,"endTime":1745.045,"body":"nowhere really, as the air"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1745.045,"endTime":1748.135,"body":"is pushing in to go, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1745.045,"endTime":1748.135,"body":"just slam flat on this."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1749.35,"endTime":1752.92,"body":"And suddenly you're jetting"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1749.35,"endTime":1752.92,"body":"hot flammable vapors far"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1752.92,"endTime":1754.42,"body":"ahead of the flame front."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1754.99,"endTime":1757.54,"body":"And it's just going to cause"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1754.99,"endTime":1757.54,"body":"this dramatic acceleration."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1757.54,"endTime":1760.04,"body":"And so it looks like"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1757.54,"endTime":1760.04,"body":"Domingos Viegas in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1760.04,"endTime":1761.64,"body":"Portugal, and others have."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1762.895,"endTime":1765.775,"body":"Become a receptive fires"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1762.895,"endTime":1765.775,"body":"or accelerating fires."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1765.775,"endTime":1768.235,"body":"You know, I think eruptive"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1765.775,"endTime":1768.235,"body":"is probably the wrong term,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1768.235,"endTime":1772.255,"body":"but there are situations for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1768.235,"endTime":1772.255,"body":"the slope fire spread, where"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1772.255,"endTime":1776.095,"body":"you can get very fast flame"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1772.255,"endTime":1776.095,"body":"spread and it loops back to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1776.095,"endTime":1777.535,"body":"fire protection engineering."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1777.985,"endTime":1779.728,"body":"There were a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1777.985,"endTime":1779.728,"body":"investigations regularly by"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1779.728,"endTime":1782.778,"body":"Dougal, Drysdale after the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1779.728,"endTime":1782.778,"body":"Kings Cross fire in London."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1783.618,"endTime":1787.021,"body":"The King's cross fire occurred"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1783.618,"endTime":1787.021,"body":"in the tube station, where"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1787.021,"endTime":1790.468,"body":"they had an escalator, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1787.021,"endTime":1790.468,"body":"was sloped up and the walls"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1790.468,"endTime":1793.078,"body":"were all shellacked wood,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1790.468,"endTime":1793.078,"body":"which was very flammable."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1793.498,"endTime":1796.888,"body":"And, um, we still don't know"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1793.498,"endTime":1796.888,"body":"if the, if there was a pressure"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1796.888,"endTime":1799.918,"body":"movement of the tube moving"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1796.888,"endTime":1799.918,"body":"through, but essentially the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1799.918,"endTime":1803.728,"body":"fire was forced through that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1799.918,"endTime":1803.728,"body":"tube to move up and it just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1803.728,"endTime":1805.048,"body":"spread incredibly rapidly."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1805.048,"endTime":1807.208,"body":"Cause that flame is just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1805.048,"endTime":1807.208,"body":"pushed against the flammable"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1807.208,"endTime":1809.908,"body":"materials, igniting more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1807.208,"endTime":1809.908,"body":"and more and accelerate."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1810.653,"endTime":1814.193,"body":"That can happen to wildfires"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1810.653,"endTime":1814.193,"body":"too, and have been the cause of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1814.193,"endTime":1817.553,"body":"some of these deadly burn overs"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1814.193,"endTime":1817.553,"body":"because people don't expect it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1817.553,"endTime":1819.833,"body":"to just jump in the behavior."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1820.148,"endTime":1821.528,"body":"You're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1820.148,"endTime":1821.528,"body":"back to the intuitive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1821.53,"endTime":1825.19,"body":"understanding of a fire,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1821.53,"endTime":1825.19,"body":"because this is a particular"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1825.19,"endTime":1829.48,"body":"combination of conditions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1825.19,"endTime":1829.48,"body":"in which this particular"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1829.81,"endTime":1831.06,"body":"flaming behavior can occur."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1831.4,"endTime":1833.41,"body":"If you didn't have this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1831.4,"endTime":1833.41,"body":"valley through which the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1833.41,"endTime":1835.75,"body":"wind would flow, you would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1833.41,"endTime":1835.75,"body":"not have this behavior."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1835.75,"endTime":1838.56,"body":"If it was like free to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1835.75,"endTime":1838.56,"body":"ventilate through it, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1838.57,"endTime":1840.13,"body":"would not have this behavior."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1840.13,"endTime":1843.52,"body":"If you didn't have the fuel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1840.13,"endTime":1843.52,"body":"prepared for burning, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1847.32,"body":"will not have this behavior,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1843.52,"endTime":1847.32,"body":"but it's this extremes in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1847.39,"endTime":1849.91,"body":"which people lose lives,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1847.39,"endTime":1849.91,"body":"actually, and that's common in."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1850.475,"endTime":1853.415,"body":"not only wildfires, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1850.475,"endTime":1853.415,"body":"common in building fires and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1853.715,"endTime":1858.125,"body":"in building fires also, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1853.715,"endTime":1858.125,"body":"not a well for civilians,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1858.155,"endTime":1863.205,"body":"it's all in the fire growth"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1858.155,"endTime":1863.205,"body":"where they usually, lose their"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1863.205,"endTime":1866.685,"body":"life, being surprised by the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1863.205,"endTime":1866.685,"body":"fire and without the way of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1866.685,"endTime":1868.395,"body":"escape, but for firefighters."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1869.115,"endTime":1871.455,"body":"It's when the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1869.115,"endTime":1871.455,"body":"ventilation path changes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1871.505,"endTime":1872.865,"body":"that's the difficult one."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1873.195,"endTime":1877.175,"body":"Someone opens the doors to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1873.195,"endTime":1877.175,"body":"the, backyard or something,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1877.175,"endTime":1878.255,"body":"at the lower level."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1878.255,"endTime":1881.465,"body":"And suddenly the pressure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1878.255,"endTime":1881.465,"body":"plane drops in the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1881.465,"endTime":1883.985,"body":"and it's all different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1881.465,"endTime":1883.985,"body":"for the people inside."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1884.315,"endTime":1887.255,"body":"That's how many firefighters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1884.315,"endTime":1887.255,"body":"lost their lives."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1887.675,"endTime":1890.975,"body":"There are phenomena like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1887.675,"endTime":1890.975,"body":"backdraft that are also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1890.975,"endTime":1895.195,"body":"intimately connected with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1890.975,"endTime":1895.195,"body":"this, flow and fire theater"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1895.765,"endTime":1900.625,"body":"and creating this explosive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1895.765,"endTime":1900.625,"body":"almost a combination of fuel"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1900.625,"endTime":1905.115,"body":"and oxygen that promotes very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1900.625,"endTime":1905.115,"body":"rapid burning that in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1905.115,"endTime":1907.095,"body":"seconds changes the scene."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1907.555,"endTime":1909.845,"body":"So  in wildfires, this is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1907.555,"endTime":1909.845,"body":"also probably something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1909.845,"endTime":1911.855,"body":"very dangerous for the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1909.845,"endTime":1911.855,"body":"people on the ground"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1912.332,"endTime":1913.502,"body":"it's the changes."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1913.562,"endTime":1918.098,"body":"And so we it's often termed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1913.562,"endTime":1918.098,"body":"extreme fire behaviour and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1918.098,"endTime":1923.148,"body":"think it was more recently,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1918.098,"endTime":1923.148,"body":"redefined as basically any fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1923.148,"endTime":1926.058,"body":"behavior that's unexpected,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1923.148,"endTime":1926.058,"body":"it's considered extreme."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1926.688,"endTime":1930.748,"body":"And so I talked about the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1926.688,"endTime":1930.748,"body":"fire, but let's say, let"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1930.748,"endTime":1932.728,"body":"me tell you where wildfires"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1930.748,"endTime":1932.728,"body":"are really challenging"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1932.998,"endTime":1934.288,"body":"embers or firebrands."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1935.038,"endTime":1938.728,"body":"So it's not just the fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1935.038,"endTime":1938.728,"body":"that you're tackling, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1938.728,"endTime":1942.908,"body":"the fire will send flammable"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1938.728,"endTime":1942.908,"body":"pieces, high into the air."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1943.543,"endTime":1946.783,"body":"And shower them ahead of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1943.543,"endTime":1946.783,"body":"the fire at locations,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1946.813,"endTime":1948.713,"body":"unknown to start new fires."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1948.773,"endTime":1951.923,"body":"And this has also resulted"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1948.773,"endTime":1951.923,"body":"not only in destruction"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1951.923,"endTime":1954.263,"body":"of communities, but also"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1951.923,"endTime":1954.263,"body":"in deaths of firefighters,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1954.263,"endTime":1957.173,"body":"because you don't expect a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1954.263,"endTime":1957.173,"body":"fire to pop up in front of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1957.173,"endTime":1959.483,"body":"you, and then it's behind you."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1959.483,"endTime":1962.303,"body":"And suddenly you have"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1959.483,"endTime":1962.303,"body":"an entrapment situation."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1962.753,"endTime":1965.783,"body":"But there's, you know, a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1962.753,"endTime":1965.783,"body":"of research going on to these"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1965.783,"endTime":1969.533,"body":"embers or firebrands, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1965.783,"endTime":1969.533,"body":"are almost always smoldering."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1969.533,"endTime":1970.373,"body":"They can be flaming to."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1971.138,"endTime":1972.188,"body":"They're smoldering pieces."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1972.188,"endTime":1973.508,"body":"They have lofted in diploma."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1973.508,"endTime":1976.328,"body":"They, they can literally go"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1973.508,"endTime":1976.328,"body":"miles or kilometers ahead of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1976.328,"endTime":1977.888,"body":"fire front and start new fires."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1977.888,"endTime":1982.128,"body":"And so, that really"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1977.888,"endTime":1982.128,"body":"changes the dynamic of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":1982.448,"endTime":1983.348,"body":"how you think about it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1983.873,"endTime":1984.283,"body":"Man."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1984.293,"endTime":1984.833,"body":"You're so good."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1984.833,"endTime":1986.183,"body":"You could run the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1984.833,"endTime":1986.183,"body":"podcasts on your own."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1986.443,"endTime":1988.673,"body":"That's the next"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1986.443,"endTime":1988.673,"body":"point on my list."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1988.853,"endTime":1990.233,"body":"Spotting and firebrands."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1991.373,"endTime":1994.433,"body":"And I'm personally a huge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1991.373,"endTime":1994.433,"body":"fan of the work of Ali Tohidi"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1994.863,"endTime":1996.473,"body":"the Nigel Kaye and, yourself."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1997.128,"endTime":2000.208,"body":"On the firebrand aspect of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1997.128,"endTime":2000.208,"body":"wildfires and the spotting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2000.208,"endTime":2003.238,"body":"phenomenon, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2000.208,"endTime":2003.238,"body":"absolutely fascinating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2003.478,"endTime":2006.198,"body":"And it's, something that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2003.478,"endTime":2006.198,"body":"really ties, the wildfires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2006.198,"endTime":2009.848,"body":"science to building science,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2006.198,"endTime":2009.848,"body":"because it's this little chunks"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2009.848,"endTime":2013.748,"body":"of burning material that connect"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2009.848,"endTime":2013.748,"body":"both worlds in many cases."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2013.748,"endTime":2014.138,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2014.154,"endTime":2017.344,"body":"So, tell us a bit more"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2014.154,"endTime":2017.344,"body":"about this, phenomenon."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2018.609,"endTime":2021.849,"body":"How does it come to life"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2018.609,"endTime":2021.849,"body":"and how in the hell the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2021.849,"endTime":2025.326,"body":"fire is able to throw 20"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2021.849,"endTime":2025.326,"body":"centimeter chunk of wood over"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2025.326,"endTime":2028.656,"body":"distance of nine kilometers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2025.326,"endTime":2028.656,"body":"because  it's unbelievable."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2029.156,"endTime":2031.276,"body":"Well, you have"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2029.156,"endTime":2031.276,"body":"to see fires to understand it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2031.276,"endTime":2034.696,"body":"So, um, you mentioned Ali"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2031.276,"endTime":2034.696,"body":"Tohidi, who was a postdoc"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2034.696,"endTime":2038.696,"body":"of mine, and now is a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2034.696,"endTime":2038.696,"body":"professor, at San Jose state"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2038.696,"endTime":2041.786,"body":"also here in the bay area"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2038.696,"endTime":2041.786,"body":"in California, uh, Nigel"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2041.976,"endTime":2043.236,"body":"Kaye  and Clemson university."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2043.236,"endTime":2045.636,"body":"And NIST does a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2043.236,"endTime":2045.636,"body":"because there's a, there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2045.636,"endTime":2048.726,"body":"small, you know, clique who"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2045.636,"endTime":2048.726,"body":"works in these embers and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2048.726,"endTime":2052.479,"body":"firebrands and, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2048.726,"endTime":2052.479,"body":"any material as it burns out"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2052.739,"endTime":2056.669,"body":"cellulosic or like, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2052.739,"endTime":2056.669,"body":"woody material is going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2056.669,"endTime":2059.759,"body":"start to char and it's going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2056.669,"endTime":2059.759,"body":"to smolder and think of those"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2059.759,"endTime":2061.439,"body":"glowing embers, that charcoal."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2062.549,"endTime":2063.389,"body":"Just like your fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2063.389,"endTime":2064.979,"body":"You see the little"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2063.389,"endTime":2064.979,"body":"sparks, the little things"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2064.979,"endTime":2065.579,"body":"that are flying off."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2065.579,"endTime":2066.359,"body":"Those are embers."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2066.449,"endTime":2067.199,"body":"They're just small."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2067.979,"endTime":2069.179,"body":"Now think of a fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2069.179,"endTime":2072.239,"body":"That's blown pretty hard and you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2069.179,"endTime":2072.239,"body":"have all those little sticks."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2072.539,"endTime":2074.579,"body":"The pine needles themselves,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2072.539,"endTime":2074.579,"body":"they burn out pretty quick,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2074.579,"endTime":2078.689,"body":"but the sticks and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2074.579,"endTime":2078.689,"body":"bark and the pieces and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2078.689,"endTime":2080.219,"body":"wind's blowing as it chars."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2080.219,"endTime":2082.769,"body":"And as it degrades, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2080.219,"endTime":2082.769,"body":"starts to kind of crumble and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2082.769,"endTime":2084.959,"body":"crack and things break off."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2085.949,"endTime":2090.059,"body":"And some of those things, if a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2085.949,"endTime":2090.059,"body":"fire has 200 foot high flames,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2090.749,"endTime":2091.109,"body":"Um,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2091.199,"endTime":2092.069,"body":"don't know"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2091.199,"endTime":2092.069,"body":"how to convert that into"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2092.339,"endTime":2093.959,"body":"meters, but it's very large."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2094.389,"endTime":2094.939,"body":"very large."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2095.529,"endTime":2098.169,"body":"And silently"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2095.529,"endTime":2098.169,"body":"you can loft something."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2098.169,"endTime":2100.809,"body":"That's the size of a log"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2098.169,"endTime":2100.809,"body":"or something it's rare,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2100.809,"endTime":2103.269,"body":"but it can happen depending"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2100.809,"endTime":2103.269,"body":"on the wind speeds."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2103.269,"endTime":2108.759,"body":"And so what happens is that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2103.269,"endTime":2108.759,"body":"just a blizzard or a shower of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2108.759,"endTime":2110.739,"body":"these materials can fly ahead."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2111.069,"endTime":2113.379,"body":"If you have enough wind"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2111.069,"endTime":2113.379,"body":"and a high enough plume,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2114.009,"endTime":2116.919,"body":"the fire itself is also"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2114.009,"endTime":2116.919,"body":"pumping air up, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2116.979,"endTime":2118.329,"body":"It's buoyant and."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2119.244,"endTime":2120.804,"body":"It can pump embers up too."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2121.224,"endTime":2123.264,"body":"And so some of them"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2121.224,"endTime":2123.264,"body":"can get lofted into"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2123.264,"endTime":2125.964,"body":"the larger atmospheric"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2123.264,"endTime":2125.964,"body":"flow and land up ahead."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2126.504,"endTime":2130.294,"body":"And that's most of the basis"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2126.504,"endTime":2130.294,"body":"of our ember grid codes"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2130.444,"endTime":2133.414,"body":"like that predict where they"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2130.444,"endTime":2133.414,"body":"go or all about what's the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2133.414,"endTime":2135.004,"body":"maximum distance they can go."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2135.424,"endTime":2137.674,"body":"So how far can they"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2135.424,"endTime":2137.674,"body":"go in the plume before"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2137.674,"endTime":2138.694,"body":"they run out of fuel?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2139.579,"endTime":2140.479,"body":"Smaller anymore."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2141.049,"endTime":2143.359,"body":"There's a lot more that we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2141.049,"endTime":2143.359,"body":"try to do with that now."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2143.449,"endTime":2146.479,"body":"And it's not, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2143.449,"endTime":2146.479,"body":"all sort of being added over"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2146.479,"endTime":2149.989,"body":"time, but that was the basis"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2146.479,"endTime":2149.989,"body":"of those Ember codes and how we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2149.989,"endTime":2151.519,"body":"calculate how far they could go."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2152.149,"endTime":2153.139,"body":"But that's what happens."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2153.709,"endTime":2154.699,"body":"Those sticks degrade."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2154.699,"endTime":2158.119,"body":"And we did some experiments"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2154.699,"endTime":2158.119,"body":"at IBHS insurance Institute"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2158.119,"endTime":2160.129,"body":"for business and home"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2158.119,"endTime":2160.129,"body":"safety in South Carolina."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2160.129,"endTime":2163.099,"body":"And they have this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2160.129,"endTime":2163.099,"body":"giant, a wind tunnel that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2163.099,"endTime":2163.669,"body":"can blow down a house."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2163.749,"endTime":2163.889,"body":"me."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2164.889,"endTime":2166.069,"body":"We were"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2164.889,"endTime":2166.069,"body":"just burning, basically"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2166.069,"endTime":2168.989,"body":"Christmas trees and they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2166.069,"endTime":2168.989,"body":"running these experiments."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2168.989,"endTime":2172.589,"body":"We got to record them and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2168.989,"endTime":2172.589,"body":"you can see as the, as the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2172.589,"endTime":2175.499,"body":"fuel degrades, the fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2172.589,"endTime":2175.499,"body":"finishes and it's smoldering."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2175.949,"endTime":2178.919,"body":"And so each stick just"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2175.949,"endTime":2178.919,"body":"starts to like, it starts"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2178.919,"endTime":2181.259,"body":"to bend a little bit and it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2178.919,"endTime":2181.259,"body":"flies off flies, it flies."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2181.319,"endTime":2184.889,"body":"And then you just get the shower"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2181.319,"endTime":2184.889,"body":"from a single bush or a single"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2184.889,"endTime":2187.679,"body":"tree and imagine a whole forest."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2188.129,"endTime":2189.539,"body":"Now, a lot of them"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2188.129,"endTime":2189.539,"body":"just landed in."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2190.039,"endTime":2194.163,"body":"But a few may actually ignite"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2190.039,"endTime":2194.163,"body":"and there's more closer"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2194.163,"endTime":2197.673,"body":"to a fuel, but sometimes"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2194.163,"endTime":2197.673,"body":"it can land far ahead."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2197.673,"endTime":2201.843,"body":"So it's so stochastic, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2197.673,"endTime":2201.843,"body":"so random, but so important."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2202.046,"endTime":2204.539,"body":"What's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2202.046,"endTime":2204.539,"body":"the lifetime of this particle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2204.539,"endTime":2208.519,"body":"when it lands, is it like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2204.539,"endTime":2208.519,"body":"in seconds, minutes hours?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2209.229,"endTime":2211.179,"body":"Depends"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2209.229,"endTime":2211.179,"body":"on the size of the, of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2211.179,"endTime":2212.769,"body":"particle and the wind speed."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2212.769,"endTime":2213.549,"body":"It's encountering."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2215.039,"endTime":2216.989,"body":"I don't want to go too far"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2215.039,"endTime":2216.989,"body":"into technical detail, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2216.989,"endTime":2220.889,"body":"yeah, it just, it, it depends"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2216.989,"endTime":2220.889,"body":"on how much fuel is in there."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2220.889,"endTime":2224.519,"body":"Remember smoldering, if it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2220.889,"endTime":2224.519,"body":"not flaming is a slow process,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2225.059,"endTime":2228.419,"body":"so it can fester and smolder"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2225.059,"endTime":2228.419,"body":"for, for a good period of time."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2228.449,"endTime":2231.089,"body":"It could, it could"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2228.449,"endTime":2231.089,"body":"be an hour scale."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2231.369,"endTime":2232.839,"body":"Because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2231.369,"endTime":2232.839,"body":"if it's not in seconds,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2232.869,"endTime":2236.049,"body":"but more in like minutes or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2232.869,"endTime":2236.049,"body":"hours, it means these things"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2236.049,"endTime":2237.219,"body":"can accumulate over time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2237.759,"endTime":2241.629,"body":"And probably with every,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2237.759,"endTime":2241.629,"body":"another ember that is trapped"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2242.169,"endTime":2245.499,"body":"at a certain location of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2242.169,"endTime":2245.499,"body":"building, you are creating"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2245.499,"endTime":2248.109,"body":"this higher probability"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2245.499,"endTime":2248.109,"body":"that they will transition"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2248.109,"endTime":2249.549,"body":"to flaming and then create,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2249.704,"endTime":2250.214,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2250.714,"endTime":2252.334,"body":"an ignition"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2250.714,"endTime":2252.334,"body":"conditions for your building."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2252.834,"endTime":2254.634,"body":"And you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2252.834,"endTime":2254.634,"body":"said the next factor, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2254.634,"endTime":2257.214,"body":"So I was just talking about"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2254.634,"endTime":2257.214,"body":"how they get generated and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2257.214,"endTime":2260.964,"body":"how they get lofted, but then"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2257.214,"endTime":2260.964,"body":"eventually they ignite things."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2261.024,"endTime":2263.904,"body":"And so there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2261.024,"endTime":2263.904,"body":"of experiments, whether"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2263.904,"endTime":2267.194,"body":"we like pile them up in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2263.904,"endTime":2267.194,"body":"beds,of pine needles.."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2268.019,"endTime":2270.329,"body":"If you get enough in a bed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2268.019,"endTime":2270.329,"body":"of pine needles and some"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2270.329,"endTime":2273.179,"body":"wind, poof, they're always"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2270.329,"endTime":2273.179,"body":"going to ignite in a bed of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2273.179,"endTime":2277.439,"body":"dry pine needles, but on a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2273.179,"endTime":2277.439,"body":"structure, it's pretty rare to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2277.439,"endTime":2278.879,"body":"get a single ember to ignite."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2279.329,"endTime":2283.219,"body":"But if you get a couple or you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2279.329,"endTime":2283.219,"body":"get a pile, then it, starts to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2283.219,"endTime":2286.459,"body":"become more and more likely that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2283.219,"endTime":2286.459,"body":"your deck or, or something in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2286.459,"endTime":2287.959,"body":"a crevice is going to ignite."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2288.649,"endTime":2288.949,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2289.704,"endTime":2292.284,"body":"It's igniting is this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2289.704,"endTime":2292.284,"body":"interesting process."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2292.284,"endTime":2295.374,"body":"Cause you have a smoldering"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2292.284,"endTime":2295.374,"body":"piece which maybe doesn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2295.374,"endTime":2297.624,"body":"have quite enough energy"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2295.374,"endTime":2297.624,"body":"and then you have more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2297.624,"endTime":2299.004,"body":"smoldering pieces added."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2299.004,"endTime":2301.434,"body":"And eventually that has"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2299.004,"endTime":2301.434,"body":"enough heat to start to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2301.434,"endTime":2303.024,"body":"smolder the material lands on."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2303.354,"endTime":2305.634,"body":"And then enough wind picks"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2303.354,"endTime":2305.634,"body":"up where it transitions"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2305.634,"endTime":2308.784,"body":"from smoldering to flaming,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2305.634,"endTime":2308.784,"body":"which to make our lives"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2308.784,"endTime":2311.814,"body":"harder is again, a very"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2308.784,"endTime":2311.814,"body":"stochastic and completely."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2312.564,"endTime":2315.384,"body":"It's not completely random,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2312.564,"endTime":2315.384,"body":"but it's all probabilistic."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2315.474,"endTime":2319.134,"body":"You know, any experiment"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2315.474,"endTime":2319.134,"body":"has to be rerun them a bunch"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2319.134,"endTime":2322.384,"body":"of times, because one time"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2319.134,"endTime":2322.384,"body":"it'll ignite the next time."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2322.384,"endTime":2322.744,"body":"It won't."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2322.804,"endTime":2326.164,"body":"So we would say at a diets,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2322.804,"endTime":2326.164,"body":"maybe 60% after doing 30"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2326.164,"endTime":2328.984,"body":"experiments, you know, we,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2326.164,"endTime":2328.984,"body":"you know, transition to,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2328.984,"endTime":2332.614,"body":"flamings a really hard thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2328.984,"endTime":2332.614,"body":"to characterize, but that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2332.644,"endTime":2335.574,"body":"critical to whether you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2332.644,"endTime":2335.574,"body":"going to start a new spot"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2335.574,"endTime":2339.554,"body":"fire or you're going to ignite"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2335.574,"endTime":2339.554,"body":"that part of a building and,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2339.624,"endTime":2342.984,"body":"Yeah, I think there's been"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2339.624,"endTime":2342.984,"body":"some nice experiments by,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2343.104,"endTime":2347.814,"body":"uh, Sam Manzello and Sayaka"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2343.104,"endTime":2347.814,"body":"Suzuki in Japan and that NIST"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2348.424,"endTime":2349.464,"body":"where they have this dragon."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2349.464,"endTime":2352.214,"body":"So they throw a lot of embers"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2349.464,"endTime":2352.214,"body":"at a structure and you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2352.214,"endTime":2355.814,"body":"see them accumulate and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2352.214,"endTime":2355.814,"body":"eventually ignite and, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2355.814,"endTime":2359.564,"body":"understanding that process helps"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2355.814,"endTime":2359.564,"body":"us think about how we design."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2360.314,"endTime":2362.384,"body":"Fascinating"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2360.314,"endTime":2362.384,"body":"because if it was not hard"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.394,"endTime":2366.274,"body":"enough, you're now creating"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2362.394,"endTime":2366.274,"body":"an aerodynamics problem of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2366.344,"endTime":2370.324,"body":"building in winds and where the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2366.344,"endTime":2370.324,"body":"under pressure zone will go."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2370.324,"endTime":2373.004,"body":"When the, where the vertices"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2370.324,"endTime":2373.004,"body":"will form around the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2373.574,"endTime":2375.284,"body":"and our buildings are not."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2375.929,"endTime":2376.709,"body":"Aerodynamic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2376.709,"endTime":2380.939,"body":"They're very, vortice friendly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2376.709,"endTime":2380.939,"body":"in terms of where these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2380.939,"endTime":2383.689,"body":"things, can land and yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2383.759,"endTime":2388.119,"body":"I saw pictures from, I think it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2383.759,"endTime":2388.119,"body":"was the Bay Area where you were"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2388.119,"endTime":2391.669,"body":"hit quite hard with wildfires"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2388.119,"endTime":2391.669,"body":"people with these huge logs"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2392.169,"endTime":2396.724,"body":"after, after a wildfire,  was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2392.169,"endTime":2396.724,"body":"really an astounding that The"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2396.724,"endTime":2399.184,"body":"fire can spread like this."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2399.214,"endTime":2402.584,"body":"But then again I guess most"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2399.214,"endTime":2402.584,"body":"of us don't appreciate the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2402.584,"endTime":2406.224,"body":"size  of a large wildfire,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2402.584,"endTime":2406.224,"body":"like really massive wildfire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2406.274,"endTime":2408.034,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2406.274,"endTime":2408.034,"body":"mean, Berkeley here has,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2408.034,"endTime":2411.714,"body":"has a long history, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2408.034,"endTime":2411.714,"body":"tunnel fire in 1991, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2411.744,"endTime":2412.814,"body":"Pat Paganini, who was."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2413.609,"endTime":2415.489,"body":"The leader in the fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2413.609,"endTime":2415.489,"body":"safety community for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2415.489,"endTime":2417.939,"body":"many years, investigated."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2417.939,"endTime":2420.999,"body":"And they found that a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2417.939,"endTime":2420.999,"body":"lot of the spread was"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2420.999,"endTime":2422.529,"body":"driven by Cedar shingles."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2423.069,"endTime":2425.109,"body":"So if you're not familiar,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2423.069,"endTime":2425.109,"body":"they're very light,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2425.109,"endTime":2428.229,"body":"lightweight, very, we've"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2425.109,"endTime":2428.229,"body":"tried them in the lab super"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2428.229,"endTime":2431.619,"body":"easy to ignite and they break"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2428.229,"endTime":2431.619,"body":"into little like before."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2432.339,"endTime":2434.559,"body":"Which just they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2432.339,"endTime":2434.559,"body":"perfectly aerodynamic."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2434.799,"endTime":2436.419,"body":"And so they're just going"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2434.799,"endTime":2436.419,"body":"to float down the hill"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2436.419,"endTime":2440.079,"body":"to the next one and, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2436.419,"endTime":2440.079,"body":"they will, they won't even"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2440.079,"endTime":2441.369,"body":"necessarily be smoldering."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2441.369,"endTime":2443.109,"body":"They'll retain the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2441.369,"endTime":2443.109,"body":"flame pretty well."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2443.559,"endTime":2446.709,"body":"And so it's a worst case"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2443.559,"endTime":2446.709,"body":"scenario of something that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2446.709,"endTime":2450.669,"body":"easy to ignite and flying the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2446.709,"endTime":2450.669,"body":"fire to your neighbor's house."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2450.669,"endTime":2454.899,"body":"And that was a really deadly"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2450.669,"endTime":2454.899,"body":"incident just due to the timing."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2454.899,"endTime":2456.729,"body":"It wasn't huge as a fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2457.059,"endTime":2459.219,"body":"It was just, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2457.059,"endTime":2459.219,"body":"conditions and the smoke"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2459.219,"endTime":2460.329,"body":"people couldn't get out."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2460.374,"endTime":2462.144,"body":"It's not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2460.374,"endTime":2462.144,"body":"always the big fires that are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2462.144,"endTime":2466.244,"body":"the worst and it's not all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2462.144,"endTime":2466.244,"body":"deadly fires that were big."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2466.334,"endTime":2468.604,"body":"It's another thing that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2466.334,"endTime":2468.604,"body":"goes into the intuitive,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2468.684,"endTime":2471.354,"body":"seeing of the fires, not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2468.684,"endTime":2471.354,"body":"necessarily, it doesn't"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2471.624,"endTime":2473.754,"body":"have to be big on my list."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2473.754,"endTime":2474.304,"body":"I have one."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2475.239,"endTime":2476.229,"body":"Final thing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2476.229,"endTime":2479.589,"body":"And that's the, probably the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2476.229,"endTime":2479.589,"body":"coolest of them all now, or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2479.589,"endTime":2482.899,"body":"maybe hottest of them all,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2479.589,"endTime":2482.899,"body":"actually it's the fire whirls."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2482.969,"endTime":2484.379,"body":"For some reason I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2482.969,"endTime":2484.379,"body":"didn't understand,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2484.379,"endTime":2486.509,"body":"you've made a scientific"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2484.379,"endTime":2486.509,"body":"career on fire whirls."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2486.809,"endTime":2489.269,"body":"They are super fascinating,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2486.809,"endTime":2489.269,"body":"super interesting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2489.269,"endTime":2494.504,"body":"And they come in so many"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2489.269,"endTime":2494.504,"body":"different, let's say flavors."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2494.954,"endTime":2499.624,"body":"And I really enjoyed her"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2494.954,"endTime":2499.624,"body":"review on whirl fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2500.434,"endTime":2504.934,"body":"And they range from tiny ones"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2500.434,"endTime":2504.934,"body":"to ones that devours cities."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2505.324,"endTime":2508.754,"body":"But there's this one that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2505.324,"endTime":2508.754,"body":"you have observed as the first"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2508.754,"endTime":2511.874,"body":"or your group has observed as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2508.754,"endTime":2511.874,"body":"the first, the blue firewood."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2512.624,"endTime":2516.044,"body":"And I remember it was like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2512.624,"endTime":2516.044,"body":"a, it was really cool for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2516.044,"endTime":2518.444,"body":"the community because it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2516.044,"endTime":2518.444,"body":"was something from our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2518.444,"endTime":2521.324,"body":"community that went viral"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2518.444,"endTime":2521.324,"body":"and it was everywhere."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2521.594,"endTime":2523.824,"body":"Everyone was talking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2521.594,"endTime":2523.824,"body":"about your blue whirls"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2524.204,"endTime":2526.984,"body":"please tell me the story,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2524.204,"endTime":2526.984,"body":"how you guys, have observed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2526.984,"endTime":2528.094,"body":"this for the first time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2528.364,"endTime":2532.174,"body":"And what was your reaction"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2528.364,"endTime":2532.174,"body":"to this discovery?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2533.489,"endTime":2535.529,"body":"Okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2533.489,"endTime":2535.529,"body":"this, this is a fun story."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2535.559,"endTime":2536.609,"body":"So,  I think."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2536.654,"endTime":2539.264,"body":"Most people know I was working"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2536.654,"endTime":2539.264,"body":"on flame spread and things."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2539.264,"endTime":2543.104,"body":"And so a new colleague Elena"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2539.264,"endTime":2543.104,"body":"Rohn, who's very well known and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2543.134,"endTime":2546.344,"body":"numerical combustion explosions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2546.344,"endTime":2548.594,"body":"High-speed so not fire at all."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2549.094,"endTime":2552.514,"body":"And we were chatting about"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2549.094,"endTime":2552.514,"body":"things we'd like to do."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2552.514,"endTime":2555.534,"body":"And we also had some discussions"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2552.514,"endTime":2555.534,"body":"with, Lex Smits another"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2555.554,"endTime":2557.994,"body":"professor at Princeton who"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2555.554,"endTime":2557.994,"body":"was playing with firewhirls."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2558.299,"endTime":2559.139,"body":"Because he liked them."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2559.139,"endTime":2560.789,"body":"And he was from"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2559.139,"endTime":2560.789,"body":"Australia originally and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2560.789,"endTime":2562.679,"body":"wanted to learn more."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2562.679,"endTime":2565.409,"body":"And we said, well, how"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2562.679,"endTime":2565.409,"body":"can we work on this?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2565.499,"endTime":2567.959,"body":"You know, it's a fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2565.499,"endTime":2567.959,"body":"safety issue in wildfires,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2567.959,"endTime":2570.329,"body":"but like tornadoes, you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2567.959,"endTime":2570.329,"body":"not going to put them out."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2570.839,"endTime":2574.019,"body":"You're not going to, I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2570.839,"endTime":2574.019,"body":"already have an idea, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2574.019,"endTime":2578.969,"body":"Saito and its others have a good"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2574.019,"endTime":2578.969,"body":"grasp of where they can form,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2579.749,"endTime":2581.009,"body":"but what do we do from here?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2581.699,"endTime":2585.659,"body":"And then we were with one of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2581.699,"endTime":2585.659,"body":"her post-docs  , and one of my"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2585.659,"endTime":2589.319,"body":"grad students   J Singh watching"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2585.659,"endTime":2589.319,"body":"YouTube videos, literally."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2590.039,"endTime":2596.039,"body":"And we saw a fire world form"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2590.039,"endTime":2596.039,"body":"and a Jim beam, factory fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2596.039,"endTime":2598.829,"body":"So this is a whiskey plant"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2596.039,"endTime":2598.829,"body":"and it turns out we did some"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2598.829,"endTime":2600.089,"body":"discovery channel special later."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2600.509,"endTime":2602.509,"body":"It turns out when we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2600.509,"endTime":2602.509,"body":"investigated this, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2602.869,"endTime":2603.919,"body":"original distilled."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2603.949,"endTime":2605.269,"body":"So they actually diluted before."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2605.974,"endTime":2606.604,"body":"They give it to you."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2606.784,"endTime":2609.274,"body":"So before they do that, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2606.784,"endTime":2609.274,"body":"very high alcohol content"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2609.334,"endTime":2612.274,"body":"and lightning struck this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2609.334,"endTime":2612.274,"body":"plant and the lake formed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2612.274,"endTime":2615.978,"body":"of it and the giant fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2612.274,"endTime":2615.978,"body":"and a fire whirl spun up."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2616.324,"endTime":2618.154,"body":"And when we looked"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2616.324,"endTime":2618.154,"body":"at it, we saw, wow."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2618.154,"endTime":2622.759,"body":"It almost looks like it's eating"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2618.154,"endTime":2622.759,"body":"that and then somehow we got"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2622.759,"endTime":2626.629,"body":"into the Deep Water Horizon and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2622.759,"endTime":2626.629,"body":"we're looking at how they were"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2626.629,"endTime":2630.289,"body":"cleaning up oil spills within"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2626.629,"endTime":2630.289,"body":"C2 burns and something clicked."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2630.289,"endTime":2633.109,"body":"And we said, oh, maybe we can"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2630.289,"endTime":2633.109,"body":"clean up oil spills with this."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2633.649,"endTime":2634.729,"body":"And that's what started it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2634.809,"endTime":2639.699,"body":"We took a disaster and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2634.809,"endTime":2639.699,"body":"said, how could we use"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2639.699,"endTime":2641.259,"body":"this phenomenon for good?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2642.039,"endTime":2643.539,"body":"And let's be honest."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2644.199,"endTime":2646.719,"body":"How could we get"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2644.199,"endTime":2646.719,"body":"funding to do this work?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2646.779,"endTime":2647.889,"body":"We didn't get much."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2647.919,"endTime":2648.369,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2648.639,"endTime":2651.069,"body":"We stretched it thin"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2648.639,"endTime":2651.069,"body":"as much as we can."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2651.579,"endTime":2652.309,"body":"I had a grad student."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2652.331,"endTime":2655.711,"body":"iram who was amazing and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2652.331,"endTime":2655.711,"body":"use the support to do"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2655.711,"endTime":2657.211,"body":"some amazing work on this."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2657.211,"endTime":2661.741,"body":"But what happened was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2657.211,"endTime":2661.741,"body":"late night with, with a Wawa"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2661.741,"endTime":2665.281,"body":"who's a postdoc and is now"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2661.741,"endTime":2665.281,"body":"a professor at USC and, Jay"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2665.311,"endTime":2669.361,"body":"who's now a professor in , and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2665.311,"endTime":2669.361,"body":"they were playing with this."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2669.411,"endTime":2672.671,"body":"And, we were like, well, let's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2669.411,"endTime":2672.671,"body":"let's keep optimizing the fire"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2672.671,"endTime":2676.871,"body":"whirl until we can get like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2672.671,"endTime":2676.871,"body":"really clean, like how good can."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2677.626,"endTime":2677.956,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2678.126,"endTime":2679.956,"body":"And then"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2678.126,"endTime":2679.956,"body":"one time the fire whirl"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2680.016,"endTime":2683.886,"body":"just went whoop and became"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2680.016,"endTime":2683.886,"body":"this little, perfectly blue"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2683.916,"endTime":2686.826,"body":"spinning top on heptane."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2686.886,"endTime":2690.156,"body":"I mean, it's like gasoline,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2686.886,"endTime":2690.156,"body":"it doesn't burn blue, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2690.156,"endTime":2691.566,"body":"doesn't get premixed on itself."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2691.926,"endTime":2694.326,"body":"And so a lot of people have"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2691.926,"endTime":2694.326,"body":"said, oh, we've observed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2694.326,"endTime":2695.586,"body":"that before as it goes down."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2695.586,"endTime":2697.926,"body":"But I think something"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2695.586,"endTime":2697.926,"body":"that changed was the fact"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2697.926,"endTime":2699.186,"body":"that we did it over water."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2699.186,"endTime":2700.656,"body":"It was perfectly smooth."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2701.173,"endTime":2702.293,"body":"And the walls just."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2703.238,"endTime":2705.278,"body":"So the way I make a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2703.238,"endTime":2705.278,"body":"firewhirl in the lab is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2705.278,"endTime":2706.448,"body":"the walls are tangential."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2706.448,"endTime":2708.908,"body":"So like the air comes in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2706.448,"endTime":2708.908,"body":"at opposite directions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2709.328,"endTime":2710.918,"body":"So it has to spin inside that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2710.918,"endTime":2711.308,"body":"chamber."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2711.358,"endTime":2714.484,"body":"And so just tweaking it over a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2711.358,"endTime":2714.484,"body":"couple of weeks, came up with."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2715.654,"endTime":2720.364,"body":"Now as a caveat soon after, uh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2715.654,"endTime":2720.364,"body":"there's a little mishap, some"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2720.364,"endTime":2724.084,"body":"crude oil spilled on the side,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2720.364,"endTime":2724.084,"body":"lit the experiment on fire."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2724.084,"endTime":2727.354,"body":"The fire department came,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2724.084,"endTime":2727.354,"body":"there was some delays."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2727.954,"endTime":2731.764,"body":"So always be luckily we had"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2727.954,"endTime":2731.764,"body":"some very skilled people and,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2731.818,"endTime":2734.291,"body":"the fire extinguisher, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2731.818,"endTime":2734.291,"body":"were provided didn't work."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2734.561,"endTime":2736.481,"body":"So they had to run to get"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2734.561,"endTime":2736.481,"body":"another one, which is why"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2736.511,"endTime":2737.561,"body":"the smoke detector trip."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2737.561,"endTime":2738.941,"body":"Then it's a long story."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2738.941,"endTime":2740.261,"body":"We have designed it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2740.261,"endTime":2741.941,"body":"So that, that can't happen now."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2741.971,"endTime":2742.241,"body":"But."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2743.021,"endTime":2744.941,"body":"Another reason to think"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2743.021,"endTime":2744.941,"body":"about what could happen"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2744.941,"endTime":2745.811,"body":"in any experiment."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2746.561,"endTime":2749.801,"body":"But the discovery of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2746.561,"endTime":2749.801,"body":"blue world was, was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2749.801,"endTime":2751.271,"body":"fascinating and fun thing."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2751.271,"endTime":2754.661,"body":"And I think the encouragement,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2751.271,"endTime":2754.661,"body":"uh, that Elena, Ron, my"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2754.661,"endTime":2758.021,"body":"colleague there gave for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2754.661,"endTime":2758.021,"body":"us, let's just dive into"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2758.081,"endTime":2762.191,"body":"this new discovery rather"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2758.081,"endTime":2762.191,"body":"than just going down the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2762.191,"endTime":2763.751,"body":"path of just characterizing."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2763.751,"endTime":2765.671,"body":"Let's just let's dig into this."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2765.671,"endTime":2766.721,"body":"This is so interesting."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2766.781,"endTime":2768.221,"body":"And that's what we did."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2768.221,"endTime":2770.411,"body":"And we were able to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2768.221,"endTime":2770.411,"body":"publish it and understand."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2770.911,"endTime":2771.721,"body":"And we've gone back."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2771.751,"endTime":2774.211,"body":"We're working on cleaning"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2771.751,"endTime":2774.211,"body":"up oil spills with these"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2774.211,"endTime":2775.681,"body":"larger firewalls as well."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2776.001,"endTime":2778.041,"body":"And we've seen"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2776.001,"endTime":2778.041,"body":"significant reductions."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2778.041,"endTime":2781.491,"body":"And so when we formed them"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2778.041,"endTime":2781.491,"body":"over crude oil fires, but,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2781.624,"endTime":2784.654,"body":"the blue whirl was this"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2781.624,"endTime":2784.654,"body":"discovery that we've missed"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2784.654,"endTime":2787.204,"body":"something and a behavior that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2784.654,"endTime":2787.204,"body":"we've been seeing because"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2787.204,"endTime":2789.124,"body":"we, we changed the focus."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2789.124,"endTime":2791.564,"body":"We changed the approach, down"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2789.124,"endTime":2791.564,"body":"into it was going it's fun."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2792.024,"endTime":2794.214,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2792.024,"endTime":2794.214,"body":"a, that's fascinating in a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2794.214,"endTime":2797.794,"body":"way,  understanding physics of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2794.214,"endTime":2797.794,"body":"this, fire behavior is directly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.834,"endTime":2799.734,"body":"pathway through technology"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.834,"endTime":2799.734,"body":"because you mentioned that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2799.744,"endTime":2802.804,"body":"it's,  it can be used to clean"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2799.744,"endTime":2802.804,"body":"oil, but it's also a very pure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2802.804,"endTime":2803.944,"body":"combustion when it's blue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2803.954,"endTime":2807.814,"body":"And If we can get the less"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2803.954,"endTime":2807.814,"body":"messy combustion, it provides"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.814,"endTime":2811.464,"body":"us the ability to do things in,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.814,"endTime":2811.464,"body":"let's say more, environmental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2811.464,"endTime":2815.334,"body":"friendly way, maybe not in terms"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2811.464,"endTime":2815.334,"body":"of CO2, but in terms of every"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2815.334,"endTime":2817.764,"body":"other nasty thing that we emit"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2815.334,"endTime":2817.764,"body":"while we are burning stuff."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2818.124,"endTime":2818.454,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2818.954,"endTime":2822.434,"body":"This is definitely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2818.954,"endTime":2822.434,"body":"much, much appreciated."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2822.944,"endTime":2827.644,"body":"And, as I mentioned, the whirls"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2822.944,"endTime":2827.644,"body":"go into different flavors."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2828.004,"endTime":2831.364,"body":"There's also these huge worlds"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2828.004,"endTime":2831.364,"body":"that happen in wildfires or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2831.364,"endTime":2835.684,"body":"even city conflagrations is this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2831.364,"endTime":2835.684,"body":"something also that, um, was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2835.744,"endTime":2837.394,"body":"of interest to your group or?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2837.494,"endTime":2839.174,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2837.494,"endTime":2839.174,"body":"mean, in some ways, so you,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2839.264,"endTime":2842.024,"body":"you mentioned, so we had"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2839.264,"endTime":2842.024,"body":"this review paper, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2842.024,"endTime":2845.434,"body":"we, we wrote for, Annual"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2842.024,"endTime":2845.434,"body":"Review of Fluid Mechanics."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2845.434,"endTime":2848.014,"body":"So at a very fluid"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2845.434,"endTime":2848.014,"body":"mechanics flavor of, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2848.014,"endTime":2850.984,"body":"what, what processes were"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2848.014,"endTime":2850.984,"body":"driving the creation and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2850.984,"endTime":2851.794,"body":"how did they form it?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2852.294,"endTime":2855.354,"body":"You know, fire whirls"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2852.294,"endTime":2855.354,"body":"form at all scales, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2855.354,"endTime":2857.544,"body":"see the little blue whirl"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2855.354,"endTime":2857.544,"body":"and the centimeter scale."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2857.784,"endTime":2859.104,"body":"I don't know if it"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2857.784,"endTime":2859.104,"body":"can go much smaller."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2859.104,"endTime":2860.334,"body":"We haven't seen that yet."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2860.781,"endTime":2864.511,"body":"All the way up to kilometer"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2860.781,"endTime":2864.511,"body":"scale in, atmospheric flows and,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2864.511,"endTime":2867.541,"body":"colleague, Neil and, University"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2864.511,"endTime":2867.541,"body":"of Nevada, Reno is now doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2867.541,"endTime":2871.201,"body":"more and more studies of these"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2867.541,"endTime":2871.201,"body":"larger scale fire whirls that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2871.201,"endTime":2872.881,"body":"are at an atmospheric scale."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2872.911,"endTime":2876.091,"body":"They're literally tornadic"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2872.911,"endTime":2876.091,"body":"and there hasn't been some"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2876.091,"endTime":2878.701,"body":"devastating effects for"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2876.091,"endTime":2878.701,"body":"them, but I feel like they're"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2878.791,"endTime":2881.731,"body":"being seen more and more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2878.791,"endTime":2881.731,"body":"in fires as we get more"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2881.731,"endTime":2882.931,"body":"of these extreme fires."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2883.591,"endTime":2885.961,"body":"You know, fire whirls are"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2883.591,"endTime":2885.961,"body":"going to form, it's sort"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2885.961,"endTime":2887.131,"body":"of this vortex phenomena."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2887.131,"endTime":2891.021,"body":"Whenever you have the right"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2887.131,"endTime":2891.021,"body":"conditions, you need that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2891.051,"endTime":2894.171,"body":"upward source of buoyancy,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2891.051,"endTime":2894.171,"body":"which is going to come from"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2894.171,"endTime":2898.241,"body":"any fire and you need something"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2894.171,"endTime":2898.241,"body":"to generate that swirl."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2898.931,"endTime":2900.551,"body":"Could be the trees."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2900.551,"endTime":2901.721,"body":"It couldn't be the wind."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2901.721,"endTime":2903.071,"body":"It can be the topography."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2903.071,"endTime":2906.761,"body":"So they often form on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2903.071,"endTime":2906.761,"body":"backside of a slope on"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2906.761,"endTime":2909.671,"body":"the edge of a fire as it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2906.761,"endTime":2909.671,"body":"spreading the winds, right."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2909.701,"endTime":2912.521,"body":"It'll spin them up and they"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2909.701,"endTime":2912.521,"body":"kind of like run along the ends."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2913.031,"endTime":2915.641,"body":"And then if the whole shape"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2913.031,"endTime":2915.641,"body":"of the fire is right and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2915.641,"endTime":2918.941,"body":"wind is right, you can get"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2915.641,"endTime":2918.941,"body":"these very large structures,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2918.941,"endTime":2921.371,"body":"that form, which is sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2918.941,"endTime":2921.371,"body":"what they think happened."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2921.371,"endTime":2922.601,"body":"Like after the Tokyo."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2922.981,"endTime":2926.846,"body":"The Great Kanto Earthquake"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2922.981,"endTime":2926.846,"body":"Fire, which was maybe 30,000"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2926.846,"endTime":2929.336,"body":"people dead or something"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2926.846,"endTime":2929.336,"body":"terrible like that."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2929.546,"endTime":2932.336,"body":"We still don't understand"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2929.546,"endTime":2932.336,"body":"everything about them,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2932.336,"endTime":2935.246,"body":"despite what we've done,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2932.336,"endTime":2935.246,"body":"which is fascinating."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2935.636,"endTime":2938.966,"body":"But I think a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2935.636,"endTime":2938.966,"body":"mechanisms that started and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2938.966,"endTime":2942.006,"body":"probably similar, but as"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2938.966,"endTime":2942.006,"body":"we saw from the blue whirl"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2942.506,"endTime":2945.296,"body":"there's a lot of nuances"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2942.506,"endTime":2945.296,"body":"in that in each process."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2945.416,"endTime":2946.346,"body":"And so."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2947.366,"endTime":2950.546,"body":"Are we going to stop all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2947.366,"endTime":2950.546,"body":"fire whirls by understanding it?"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2950.546,"endTime":2954.146,"body":"No, but we can still learn"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2950.546,"endTime":2954.146,"body":"from it and learn where we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2954.146,"endTime":2956.666,"body":"might predict where there"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2954.146,"endTime":2956.666,"body":"there's a possibility."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2956.966,"endTime":2960.536,"body":"I mean, these larger scale ones,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2956.966,"endTime":2960.536,"body":"they see signs of it on radar."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2960.566,"endTime":2961.766,"body":"I mean, like this is,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2962.148,"endTime":2964.308,"body":"You can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2962.148,"endTime":2964.308,"body":"see this whirly motion on the re"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2964.818,"endTime":2965.118,"body":"wow."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2965.238,"endTime":2965.593,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2965.833,"endTime":2967.733,"body":"I mean, they see  the same"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2965.833,"endTime":2967.733,"body":"sort of signatures they"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2967.733,"endTime":2968.963,"body":"look for for tornadoes."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2969.113,"endTime":2972.203,"body":"I mean, they're at an"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2969.113,"endTime":2972.203,"body":"atmospheric scale and are they,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2972.833,"endTime":2974.393,"body":"we can fight over terminology."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2974.693,"endTime":2978.323,"body":"Are they still fire whirls if"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2974.693,"endTime":2978.323,"body":"they comes from the, you know,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":2978.323,"endTime":2980.103,"body":"fire weather from the ground up."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2980.472,"endTime":2982.692,"body":"They come"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2980.472,"endTime":2982.692,"body":"out of your department into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2983.092,"endTime":2986.202,"body":"tornado department  not allowed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2983.092,"endTime":2986.202,"body":"to play with them anymore."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2986.986,"endTime":2988.006,"body":"That's that?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2988.066,"endTime":2988.876,"body":"That's so cool."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2989.086,"endTime":2993.516,"body":"Ah, man,  the fire sciences"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2989.086,"endTime":2993.516,"body":"is a fascinating place."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2994.356,"endTime":2998.746,"body":"To wrap it up, there's a, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2994.356,"endTime":2998.746,"body":"been an incredible journey"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2998.746,"endTime":3002.586,"body":"from, inclined surfaces"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2998.746,"endTime":3002.586,"body":"to crown fires, spotting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3002.642,"endTime":3005.942,"body":"to fire whirls and there's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3002.642,"endTime":3005.942,"body":"so much more to learn, on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3005.942,"endTime":3007.442,"body":"each of these, phenomena."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3007.952,"endTime":3011.732,"body":"And I usually ask people to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3007.952,"endTime":3011.732,"body":"refer to some resources, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3012.102,"endTime":3017.612,"body":"actually, no, you have created"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3012.102,"endTime":3017.612,"body":"an astounding base of resources"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3017.672,"endTime":3019.052,"body":"at your Berkeley sites."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3019.052,"endTime":3022.052,"body":"So I probably link"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3019.052,"endTime":3022.052,"body":"that even before my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3022.052,"endTime":3023.192,"body":"description of an episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3023.192,"endTime":3025.322,"body":"That's how good this site is."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3025.372,"endTime":3028.792,"body":"Here  you have an airtime,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3025.372,"endTime":3028.792,"body":"advertise it as much as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3028.792,"endTime":3031.702,"body":"you want, and I will do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3028.792,"endTime":3031.702,"body":"more because it's amazing."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3032.136,"endTime":3034.916,"body":"Feel free"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3032.136,"endTime":3034.916,"body":"the firelab.Berkeley.edu."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3035.335,"endTime":3038.575,"body":"A lot of resources are"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3035.335,"endTime":3038.575,"body":"thanks to postdocs and"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3038.575,"endTime":3039.985,"body":"students, Franz Richter."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3040.015,"endTime":3042.985,"body":"Who's a post-doc came from"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3040.015,"endTime":3042.985,"body":"Guillermo Rein's group where"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3042.985,"endTime":3046.345,"body":"he's got his PhD prepared a"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3042.985,"endTime":3046.345,"body":"lot for new, people interested"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3046.345,"endTime":3047.515,"body":"in careers in fire science."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3047.515,"endTime":3049.825,"body":"So, yeah, please check it out."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3049.825,"endTime":3053.105,"body":"We post all of our papers"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3049.825,"endTime":3053.105,"body":"too, and, I'm just, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3053.105,"endTime":3054.125,"body":"know, happy to share it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3054.175,"endTime":3056.935,"body":"I think it's really exciting"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3054.175,"endTime":3056.935,"body":"to be working on the interface"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3056.995,"endTime":3060.25,"body":"between the combustion"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3056.995,"endTime":3060.25,"body":"and physical science of"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3060.25,"endTime":3062.44,"body":"fire and how we apply it."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3062.56,"endTime":3065.71,"body":"And so that's also why we"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3062.56,"endTime":3065.71,"body":"want to share the work is"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3065.71,"endTime":3069.55,"body":"because we don't just want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3065.71,"endTime":3069.55,"body":"do some esoteric, fundamental"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3069.55,"endTime":3071.83,"body":"work, but we want to figure"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3069.55,"endTime":3071.83,"body":"out what the real problems"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3071.83,"endTime":3075.49,"body":"are, understand them and find"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3071.83,"endTime":3075.49,"body":"the solutions and, and share"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3075.49,"endTime":3077.13,"body":"them back with the community."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3077.37,"endTime":3077.96,"body":"That's our goal."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3078.81,"endTime":3081.24,"body":"And I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3078.81,"endTime":3081.24,"body":"very thankful for creating"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3081.24,"endTime":3082.65,"body":"this a bunch of resources."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3082.7,"endTime":3084.17,"body":"I'm an user of them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3084.2,"endTime":3087.38,"body":"I really appreciate, putting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3084.2,"endTime":3087.38,"body":"them all in one place."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3087.38,"endTime":3089.94,"body":"And  it's really great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3087.38,"endTime":3089.94,"body":"initiative and they're"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3089.97,"endTime":3093.29,"body":"absolutely worth checking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3089.97,"endTime":3093.29,"body":"as the second best place"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3093.29,"endTime":3095.09,"body":"after the podcast to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3093.29,"endTime":3095.09,"body":"learn about fire science."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3096.77,"endTime":3099.02,"body":"Definitely"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3096.77,"endTime":3099.02,"body":"the Fire Science Show, first"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3099.02,"endTime":3102.07,"body":"I, I I'm delighted that"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3099.02,"endTime":3102.07,"body":"this, this came together."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3102.07,"endTime":3104.05,"body":"It's so nice to hear"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3102.07,"endTime":3104.05,"body":"colleagues, especially in"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3104.05,"endTime":3106.84,"body":"this time we can't travel"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3104.05,"endTime":3106.84,"body":"as much, but hopefully these"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3106.84,"endTime":3108.73,"body":"will be around for posterity."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3108.73,"endTime":3111.73,"body":"You know, it's just, uh, to"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3108.73,"endTime":3111.73,"body":"hear people's perspective"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3111.73,"endTime":3114.01,"body":"on the researchers is rare."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3114.01,"endTime":3117.33,"body":"And, and I, I appreciate it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3114.01,"endTime":3117.33,"body":"as well as learning about"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3117.33,"endTime":3120.6,"body":"other fields and how people"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3117.33,"endTime":3120.6,"body":"are applying in industry,"},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3120.6,"endTime":3121.98,"body":"you know, we learn a lot."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3121.995,"endTime":3123.465,"body":"And the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3121.995,"endTime":3123.465,"body":"whole diversity of the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3123.465,"endTime":3125.025,"body":"sciences is just astounding."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3125.565,"endTime":3125.985,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3126.045,"endTime":3129.975,"body":"Michael, it was a huge pleasure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3126.045,"endTime":3129.975,"body":"to have you on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3130.345,"endTime":3133.495,"body":"All the resources that we've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3130.345,"endTime":3133.495,"body":"talked about, the papers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3133.495,"endTime":3136.045,"body":"with discussed will be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3133.495,"endTime":3136.045,"body":"linked in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3136.595,"endTime":3140.285,"body":"Thank you so much again"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3136.595,"endTime":3140.285,"body":"for being here and yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3140.315,"endTime":3141.485,"body":"See you the next time."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3141.597,"endTime":3141.867,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Gollner","startTime":3142.167,"endTime":3142.977,"body":"See you the next time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3143.155,"endTime":3143.935,"body":"And that's it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3144.535,"endTime":3145.915,"body":"I hope you enjoyed that one."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3146.035,"endTime":3148.285,"body":"I really liked"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3146.035,"endTime":3148.285,"body":"talking to Michael."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3149.095,"endTime":3153.205,"body":"He was on the list of my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3149.095,"endTime":3153.205,"body":"dream guests for the podcast"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3153.205,"endTime":3154.555,"body":"for a very, very long time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3154.975,"endTime":3157.465,"body":"Pretty much since I've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3154.975,"endTime":3157.465,"body":"started the show, I always"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3157.465,"endTime":3158.875,"body":"wanted to talk to him and."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3159.79,"endTime":3161.08,"body":"I admire him a lot."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3161.11,"endTime":3164.59,"body":"He has a great career path"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3161.11,"endTime":3164.59,"body":"in fire and definitely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3164.59,"endTime":3167.97,"body":"one of them young rising"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3164.59,"endTime":3167.97,"body":"stars of our community."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3168.71,"endTime":3170.2,"body":"And I hope you understand why."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3170.27,"endTime":3174.02,"body":"His thoughts are really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3170.27,"endTime":3174.02,"body":"insightful and his research"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3174.02,"endTime":3177.38,"body":"is really impactful on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3174.02,"endTime":3177.38,"body":"the world of fire safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3177.38,"endTime":3180.8,"body":"engineering wildfires, and then"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3177.38,"endTime":3180.8,"body":"fundamental combustion as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3181.28,"endTime":3185.36,"body":"For me, it was interesting to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3181.28,"endTime":3185.36,"body":"see how the fluid mechanics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3185.45,"endTime":3188.54,"body":"into play with fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3185.45,"endTime":3188.54,"body":"combustion and how."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3189.38,"endTime":3193.34,"body":"All of this in the end is a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3189.38,"endTime":3193.34,"body":"flow phenomenon, a heat transfer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3193.34,"endTime":3198.5,"body":"phenomenon, and trying to find"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3193.34,"endTime":3198.5,"body":"a way how to connect this with,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3198.58,"endTime":3200.05,"body":"with the real-world engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3200.11,"endTime":3202.75,"body":"And I think we found some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3200.11,"endTime":3202.75,"body":"really good examples in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3202.75,"endTime":3208.88,"body":"show that really illustrate of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3202.75,"endTime":3208.88,"body":"how important this fundamental"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3208.88,"endTime":3212.82,"body":"aspects of fire science are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3208.88,"endTime":3212.82,"body":"for everyday practitioneer."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3213.98,"endTime":3217.1,"body":"And now for the end, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3213.98,"endTime":3217.1,"body":"would like to highlight once"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3217.1,"endTime":3219.69,"body":"more firelab.berkeley.edu."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3220.13,"endTime":3223.76,"body":"It's a brilliant web page"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3220.13,"endTime":3223.76,"body":"filled with resources."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3223.77,"endTime":3225.98,"body":"I'm truly amazed how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3223.77,"endTime":3225.98,"body":"they've pulled it up"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3226.01,"endTime":3227.42,"body":"together with Franz Richter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3227.84,"endTime":3230.84,"body":"And it's definitely worth"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3227.84,"endTime":3230.84,"body":"checking out it's full"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3230.84,"endTime":3232.13,"body":"of really useful stuff."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3232.55,"endTime":3236.18,"body":"So it really makes writing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3232.55,"endTime":3236.18,"body":"my show notes easier for this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3236.18,"endTime":3238.85,"body":"episode because everything"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3236.18,"endTime":3238.85,"body":"is already out there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3239.75,"endTime":3240.11,"body":"Anyway."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3240.41,"endTime":3242.96,"body":"Thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3240.41,"endTime":3242.96,"body":"listening to this episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3243.02,"endTime":3245.27,"body":"I'm hope you liked it as usual."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3245.3,"endTime":3248.09,"body":"Please share it with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3245.3,"endTime":3248.09,"body":"a friend and share the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3248.09,"endTime":3249.59,"body":"knowledge about the podcast."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3250.34,"endTime":3253.7,"body":"Next week another great"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3250.34,"endTime":3253.7,"body":"guest, another great episode."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3254.21,"endTime":3254.9,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3255.11,"endTime":3256.16,"body":"See you next Wednesday."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":3256.25,"endTime":3256.82,"body":"Cheers."}]}