{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.181,"endTime":1.352,"body":"Hello,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":0.181,"endTime":1.352,"body":"and welcome to session twenty"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1.352,"endTime":2.642,"body":"nine of the Fire Science Show."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2.865,"endTime":4.965,"body":"So let's start with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2.865,"endTime":4.965,"body":"the tough question."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":5.385,"endTime":7.995,"body":"Can you tell a difference"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":5.385,"endTime":7.995,"body":"between the bus and a train..."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.43,"body":"Well, I guess it's a horribly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":8.4,"endTime":11.43,"body":"posed question because it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":11.487,"endTime":14.977,"body":"little obvious, but yeah, let's,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":11.487,"endTime":14.977,"body":"let's rephrase that quite a bit."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.727,"endTime":19.533,"body":"Can you tell a difference"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":15.727,"endTime":19.533,"body":"between a fire that starts"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":19.6,"endTime":23.5,"body":"in the passenger chamber"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":19.6,"endTime":23.5,"body":"of a bus or a coach and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":23.5,"endTime":26.32,"body":"the fire that starts in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":23.5,"endTime":26.32,"body":"passenger chamber of the train?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":27.658,"endTime":29.575,"body":"Quite similar environments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":29.575,"endTime":32.415,"body":"In fact, they have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":29.575,"endTime":32.415,"body":"seats, upholstered."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":32.835,"endTime":37.635,"body":"They, they have some sorts of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":32.835,"endTime":37.635,"body":"carpets, linings, ceilings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.145,"endTime":40.605,"body":"They are filled with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":38.145,"endTime":40.605,"body":"people, passengers who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":40.605,"endTime":41.865,"body":"carry their luggages."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":42.265,"endTime":46.125,"body":"So in the end, the ignition"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":42.265,"endTime":46.125,"body":"sources, the materials, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":46.125,"endTime":47.985,"body":"architecture of the compartment."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":48.135,"endTime":49.755,"body":"Do they seem quite similar."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":50.235,"endTime":55.725,"body":"Yet if you had the fire start"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":50.235,"endTime":55.725,"body":"in the very same way in the bus"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":55.725,"endTime":59.181,"body":"and in the train, they would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":55.725,"endTime":59.181,"body":"end up completely differently."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":59.812,"endTime":63.032,"body":"And, that has a lot to do"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":59.812,"endTime":63.032,"body":"with the materials used"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":63.032,"endTime":65.492,"body":"in this two vehicles."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":65.892,"endTime":70.128,"body":"And more precisely the way"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":65.892,"endTime":70.128,"body":"how the fire properties of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.128,"endTime":74.298,"body":"these materials are assessed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":70.128,"endTime":74.298,"body":"and what is allowed to be used"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.378,"endTime":78.038,"body":"on both of the types of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":74.378,"endTime":78.038,"body":"transport vehicles and, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":78.368,"endTime":81.908,"body":"to discover what truly makes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":78.368,"endTime":81.908,"body":"the difference between those"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":81.908,"endTime":87.308,"body":"two and, what made one of them"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":81.908,"endTime":87.308,"body":"so much worse than the other?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":87.788,"endTime":91.388,"body":"I have invited Dr.Anja"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":87.788,"endTime":91.388,"body":"Hofmann-Bllinghaus from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.748,"endTime":96.478,"body":"German, BAM and she's one of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":91.748,"endTime":96.478,"body":"leaders in testing the material"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":96.478,"endTime":98.398,"body":"is used in modern vehicles."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":98.563,"endTime":104.882,"body":"she's gonna tell me a lot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":98.563,"endTime":104.882,"body":"more about how we test our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":105.122,"endTime":108.782,"body":"vehicles, how we achieve"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":105.122,"endTime":108.782,"body":"safety or how we don't achieve"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":108.782,"endTime":110.162,"body":"safety in some of them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":110.792,"endTime":115.792,"body":"And what's truly missing to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":110.792,"endTime":115.792,"body":"create a lot safer world in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":115.792,"endTime":117.752,"body":"the world of transportation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":118.122,"endTime":121.692,"body":"It's very interesting because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":118.122,"endTime":121.692,"body":"a lot of what we say, can we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":121.692,"endTime":127.662,"body":"extrapolate it from buses and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":121.692,"endTime":127.662,"body":"trains into passenger vehicles"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":127.662,"endTime":130.672,"body":"and maybe to in the whole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":127.662,"endTime":130.672,"body":"building industry, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":130.672,"endTime":133.292,"body":"so a lot of these methods"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":130.672,"endTime":133.292,"body":", are very, very universal."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.658,"endTime":136.082,"body":"I hope this will be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":133.658,"endTime":136.082,"body":"very interesting to you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":136.082,"endTime":139.382,"body":"It was very interesting to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":136.082,"endTime":139.382,"body":"me and you really want to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":139.382,"endTime":141.512,"body":"hear what Anja has to say."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":142.112,"endTime":147.472,"body":"So maybe in our fields, or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":142.112,"endTime":147.472,"body":"your fields, we avoid the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":147.472,"endTime":149.512,"body":"mistakes done by others."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":150.052,"endTime":150.442,"body":"Enjoy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":174.179,"endTime":174.868,"body":"Hello everybody."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":174.928,"endTime":176.498,"body":"I'm today here with, Dr."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":176.498,"endTime":177.698,"body":"Anja Hofmann-Bllinghaus."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.198,"endTime":178.708,"body":"Hello, Anja."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":178.768,"endTime":179.528,"body":"And good to see you."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":179.808,"endTime":180.138,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":180.168,"endTime":181.748,"body":"Hi, nice to be here."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":181.898,"endTime":182.948,"body":"Thank you for the invitation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":183.608,"endTime":184.988,"body":"Thank"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":183.608,"endTime":184.988,"body":"you for taking the invitation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":184.988,"endTime":187.468,"body":"I'm very happy to have you here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":187.925,"endTime":192.251,"body":"Uh, we've came here to discuss,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":187.925,"endTime":192.251,"body":"issues of fire safety in mass"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":192.251,"endTime":195.551,"body":"transport, because I've heard"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":192.251,"endTime":195.551,"body":"you've did a lot of research"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":195.551,"endTime":199.451,"body":"on fire safety of buses and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":195.551,"endTime":199.451,"body":"material properties used in the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":200.011,"endTime":202.695,"body":"And, then I was like,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":200.011,"endTime":202.695,"body":"well, that's a, quite an"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":202.695,"endTime":203.912,"body":"unique, research topic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":204.021,"endTime":207.36,"body":"I don't know many"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":204.021,"endTime":207.36,"body":"bus fire scientists."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":207.36,"endTime":210.538,"body":"I do, uh, lots of research on,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":207.36,"endTime":210.538,"body":"passenger cars and car parks."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":210.538,"endTime":213.765,"body":"So it's actually super"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":210.538,"endTime":213.765,"body":"interesting to me, uh, please"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":213.765,"endTime":216.858,"body":"tell me what, what pushed you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":213.765,"endTime":216.858,"body":"on this pathway to focus on, on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":216.858,"endTime":219.178,"body":"fire safety of mass transport"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":216.858,"endTime":219.178,"body":"and buses in particular."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":219.618,"endTime":222.543,"body":"Yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":219.618,"endTime":222.543,"body":"was mainly a very big"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":222.573,"endTime":224.463,"body":"fire in Germany in 2009."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":224.986,"endTime":228.016,"body":"Uh, whereas the whole"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":224.986,"endTime":228.016,"body":"bus burned down and,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":228.033,"endTime":229.513,"body":"uh, had many facilities."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":229.993,"endTime":232.333,"body":"We already, before this"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":229.993,"endTime":232.333,"body":"happened, know that the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":232.333,"endTime":236.263,"body":"materials interior materials,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":232.333,"endTime":236.263,"body":"uh, were not as good as in"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":236.263,"endTime":237.583,"body":"other transport sectors."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":238.093,"endTime":241.093,"body":"And so we were not"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":238.093,"endTime":241.093,"body":"that surprised that the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":241.093,"endTime":242.923,"body":"whole Bus burned down."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":243.513,"endTime":247.066,"body":"yeah, but, it gave us the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":243.513,"endTime":247.066,"body":"opportunity to have a project"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":247.186,"endTime":249.076,"body":"on this bus fire in particular."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":249.156,"endTime":249.786,"body":"Was it?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":249.786,"endTime":251.376,"body":"The fire of the vehicle?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":251.406,"endTime":254.676,"body":"Uh, like alone or was it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":251.406,"endTime":254.676,"body":"like in a tunnel or it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":254.676,"endTime":257.046,"body":"was just a bus that burned"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":254.676,"endTime":257.046,"body":"down and people died in it."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":257.226,"endTime":260.346,"body":"Um, it was"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":257.226,"endTime":260.346,"body":"a bus on the motorway."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":261.126,"endTime":264.866,"body":"And, , the problem was that your"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":261.126,"endTime":264.866,"body":"fire was not detected in the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":264.866,"endTime":266.936,"body":"first part of the development."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":267.321,"endTime":272.041,"body":"So it developed, , in the toilet"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":267.321,"endTime":272.041,"body":"and luggage area for some time."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":272.581,"endTime":276.101,"body":"And, the bus, has an air"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":272.581,"endTime":276.101,"body":"conditioning, which sucks,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":276.201,"endTime":280.171,"body":"air from the top and push"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":276.201,"endTime":280.171,"body":"it through,  she was a floor"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":280.738,"endTime":284.061,"body":"so it was a smoke, came"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":280.738,"endTime":284.061,"body":"out of the bus underneath."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":284.181,"endTime":285.441,"body":"So it was a bus driver."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":285.441,"endTime":287.631,"body":"Didn't see that there was."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":288.471,"endTime":291.908,"body":"And, um, the cars behind"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":288.471,"endTime":291.908,"body":"the bus try to alert him,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":292.001,"endTime":294.341,"body":"that there is a problem"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":292.001,"endTime":294.341,"body":"and that there is smoke."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":294.845,"endTime":298.655,"body":"and then he stopped, but, it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":294.845,"endTime":298.655,"body":"is assumed that one passenger"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":298.685,"endTime":302.975,"body":"opens the toilet door and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":298.685,"endTime":302.975,"body":"gave the, uh, fire oxygen."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":303.425,"endTime":306.495,"body":"And then, , the whole cabin"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":303.425,"endTime":306.495,"body":"the whole passenger, cabin"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":306.515,"endTime":308.075,"body":"was on fire very quickly."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":308.855,"endTime":312.648,"body":"And then, um, there's a toilet"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":308.855,"endTime":312.648,"body":"is, close , to the rear exit."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":312.957,"endTime":315.166,"body":"And so it was a rear"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":312.957,"endTime":315.166,"body":"exit was not, usable."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":315.646,"endTime":321.123,"body":"And so, , the passengers could"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":315.646,"endTime":321.123,"body":"only use the front, exit and all"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":321.123,"endTime":326.163,"body":"the passengers who were behind"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":321.123,"endTime":326.163,"body":"this rear exit had no chance"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":326.183,"endTime":330.383,"body":"to leave the bus because it was"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":326.183,"endTime":330.383,"body":"so quick, the development of"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":330.383,"endTime":334.625,"body":"the fire in the passenger cabin"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":330.383,"endTime":334.625,"body":"Uh, the people who survived,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":334.715,"endTime":338.845,"body":"say they could tell that they"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":334.715,"endTime":338.845,"body":"couldn't even, , rescue the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":338.845,"endTime":343.675,"body":"ones which are really close to"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":338.845,"endTime":343.675,"body":"the exit because it was so hot."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":343.765,"endTime":347.362,"body":"And so much smoke that a,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":343.765,"endTime":347.362,"body":"couldn't even grab the uh,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":347.362,"endTime":348.992,"body":"people who were very close to."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":350.117,"endTime":353.064,"body":"That is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":350.117,"endTime":353.064,"body":"such a horrible, , Combination"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":353.094,"endTime":357.227,"body":"of, unfortunate events because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":353.094,"endTime":357.227,"body":"you have a concealed fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":357.227,"endTime":361.997,"body":"that's undetected, you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":357.227,"endTime":361.997,"body":"a space with the ideal ratio"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":361.997,"endTime":367.247,"body":"of ventilation to fuel, to a,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":361.997,"endTime":367.247,"body":"let the fire grow, but stay in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":367.247,"endTime":372.148,"body":"this, let's say in incepient"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":367.247,"endTime":372.148,"body":"stage So , it's heating up, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":372.198,"endTime":376.96,"body":"not flaming to give warning,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":372.198,"endTime":376.96,"body":"but again, not like going out."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":376.96,"endTime":378.01,"body":"So it's just smoldering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":378.01,"endTime":380.86,"body":"So it must have been like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":378.01,"endTime":380.86,"body":"quite the big fire in there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":381.43,"endTime":385.39,"body":"And then a quick opening,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":381.43,"endTime":385.39,"body":"a quick gulp of air and you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":385.45,"endTime":388.54,"body":"like almost have an internal"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":385.45,"endTime":388.54,"body":"backdraft inside the bus,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":388.765,"endTime":391.945,"body":"Yeah, we some"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":388.765,"endTime":391.945,"body":"FDS calculations at the time."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":392.035,"endTime":395.105,"body":"And we could show was that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":392.035,"endTime":395.105,"body":"if you have a fire,  which"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":395.105,"endTime":399.095,"body":"develops in this area where"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":395.105,"endTime":399.095,"body":"it's not that much air and then"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":399.095,"endTime":402.402,"body":"you give air to the fires and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":399.095,"endTime":402.402,"body":"then you have a very quick,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":402.452,"endTime":406.052,"body":"filling of the whole passenger"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":402.452,"endTime":406.052,"body":"cabin with flames and smoke."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":406.449,"endTime":409.869,"body":"In a way, shows that this"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":406.449,"endTime":409.869,"body":"scenario is likely that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":409.869,"endTime":413.749,"body":"someone opened the was a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":409.869,"endTime":413.749,"body":"toilet door and, that is a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":413.749,"endTime":416.139,"body":"made the situation so bad"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":417.029,"endTime":418.899,"body":"This"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":417.029,"endTime":418.899,"body":"scenario is nothing very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":418.899,"endTime":419.859,"body":"uncommon in buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":419.859,"endTime":422.017,"body":"Like this is how,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":419.859,"endTime":422.017,"body":"backdrafts happened."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":422.042,"endTime":425.882,"body":"This is how many firefighters"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":422.042,"endTime":425.882,"body":"train, uh, these situations, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":425.882,"endTime":427.882,"body":"we're talking about buildings"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":425.882,"endTime":427.882,"body":"not sitting comfortably"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":427.882,"endTime":429.812,"body":"in a bus, on the motorway."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":429.812,"endTime":432.712,"body":"So we probably had, and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":429.812,"endTime":432.712,"body":"also you would not like to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":432.742,"endTime":434.362,"body":"jump from window to motorway"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":434.692,"endTime":436.492,"body":"we had"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":434.692,"endTime":436.492,"body":"two fires actually."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":436.522,"endTime":439.142,"body":"It's funny that you say that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":436.522,"endTime":439.142,"body":"we had two fires with this"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":439.142,"endTime":443.462,"body":"younger people, in i think as,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":439.142,"endTime":443.462,"body":"uh, two three years after this"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":443.972,"endTime":447.752,"body":"incident and they survived"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":443.972,"endTime":447.752,"body":"because they smashed the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":447.752,"endTime":450.942,"body":"windows in the upper deck and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":447.752,"endTime":450.942,"body":"they jumped out of the window,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":451.362,"endTime":455.639,"body":"but I don't think a normal"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":451.362,"endTime":455.639,"body":"passenger can do that because"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":455.639,"endTime":459.719,"body":"it is quite high and you have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":455.639,"endTime":459.719,"body":"to be really fit to do that."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":459.719,"endTime":463.259,"body":"So it was only lucky that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":459.719,"endTime":463.259,"body":"his passengers were so young"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":463.259,"endTime":465.8,"body":"and so able to do that."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":465.872,"endTime":468.332,"body":"If you have elderly"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":465.872,"endTime":468.332,"body":"passengers or"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":468.362,"endTime":471.695,"body":"passengers who are, have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":468.362,"endTime":471.695,"body":"a reduced mobility, I"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":471.695,"endTime":473.075,"body":"don't think it's possible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":473.315,"endTime":475.045,"body":"And"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":473.315,"endTime":475.045,"body":"before we jump into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":475.045,"endTime":478.235,"body":"material properties, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":475.045,"endTime":478.235,"body":"that that is that interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":478.255,"endTime":481.195,"body":"topic,  if this happened on"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":478.255,"endTime":481.195,"body":"the plane, for example, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":481.195,"endTime":483.295,"body":"would have the cargo smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":481.195,"endTime":483.295,"body":"detectors, most likely."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":483.735,"endTime":487.545,"body":"I would pick up the incipient"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":483.735,"endTime":487.545,"body":"stage of the fire and so on."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":487.846,"endTime":491.202,"body":"Did this tragedy led to some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":487.846,"endTime":491.202,"body":"sort of introduction of,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":491.282,"endTime":493.282,"body":", detection in, buses afterwards?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":493.452,"endTime":493.902,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":494.002,"endTime":497.042,"body":", a lot of, companies,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":494.002,"endTime":497.042,"body":"introduce this smoke"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":497.042,"endTime":499.832,"body":"detectors very quickly,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":497.042,"endTime":499.832,"body":"but it became mandatory."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":499.832,"endTime":504.322,"body":"Then after a few years that you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":499.832,"endTime":504.322,"body":"have smoke detection in areas"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":504.332,"endTime":505.862,"body":"as a driver you cannot see."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":506.225,"endTime":510.229,"body":"So, um, this fire probably"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":506.225,"endTime":510.229,"body":"would have been detected earlier"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":510.229,"endTime":513.109,"body":"if there had been a smoke"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":510.229,"endTime":513.109,"body":"detector, it's a time in the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":513.109,"endTime":514.819,"body":"toilet or in the luggage area."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":515.479,"endTime":518.995,"body":"So, with,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":515.479,"endTime":518.995,"body":"new regulations, it may be less"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":519.305,"endTime":523.235,"body":"possible for such a deadly fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":519.305,"endTime":523.235,"body":"to occur because, the, Fattal"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":523.235,"endTime":525.725,"body":"outcome of this fire seems to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":523.235,"endTime":525.725,"body":"be a combination of many things,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":525.755,"endTime":528.955,"body":"but,  one of them has not really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":525.755,"endTime":528.955,"body":"changed that much, or I will."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":529.64,"endTime":532.34,"body":"How much it changed and that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":529.64,"endTime":532.34,"body":"the material properties."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":532.79,"endTime":535.607,"body":"And, no matter if the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":532.79,"endTime":535.607,"body":"is detected or not, no matter"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":535.607,"endTime":539.523,"body":"if the bus is on the road or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":535.607,"endTime":539.523,"body":"parked in the lot, we know"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":539.523,"endTime":541.473,"body":"that these vehicles can burn."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":541.473,"endTime":543.783,"body":"They are quite dangerous."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":544.263,"endTime":546.423,"body":"Especially when you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":544.263,"endTime":546.423,"body":"like a hundred of them"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":546.423,"endTime":547.593,"body":"parked next to each other."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":548.073,"endTime":552.133,"body":"And we had this fires , of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":548.073,"endTime":552.133,"body":"like large bus depots"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":552.643,"endTime":553.543,"body":"we had some in Poland."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":553.543,"endTime":556.183,"body":"I know, I think in Stuttgart,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":553.543,"endTime":556.183,"body":"there was a recently a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":556.183,"endTime":557.953,"body":"large fire of this type"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":558.093,"endTime":558.423,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":558.423,"endTime":562.133,"body":"We had several, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":558.423,"endTime":562.133,"body":"this year in Germany and bus"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":562.173,"endTime":563.433,"body":"depots where you see that."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":563.733,"endTime":566.613,"body":"Yeah, that just spread from"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":563.733,"endTime":566.613,"body":"one bus to another very quick."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":567.528,"endTime":568.778,"body":"And,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":567.528,"endTime":568.778,"body":"the consequences of such a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":568.778,"endTime":572.498,"body":"fire are well beyond the,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":568.778,"endTime":572.498,"body":"just the loss of a vehicle,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":572.498,"endTime":574.688,"body":"because it's a huge disturbance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":572.498,"endTime":574.688,"body":"to the local community."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":574.958,"endTime":577.868,"body":"If you lose a hundred buses,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":574.958,"endTime":577.868,"body":"the city can have quite a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":577.868,"endTime":580.448,"body":"big issues, uh, operating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":580.478,"endTime":582.638,"body":"Like we would just buy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":580.478,"endTime":582.638,"body":"old buses from Germany,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":582.638,"endTime":586.598,"body":"but yes, you, you have to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":582.638,"endTime":586.598,"body":"manufacture them, I guess."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":586.678,"endTime":589.35,"body":"Yeah, I think,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":586.678,"endTime":589.35,"body":"if they can't operate them for"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":589.35,"endTime":592.38,"body":"the insurers, that is sometimes"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":589.35,"endTime":592.38,"body":"a bigger problem when they"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":592.39,"endTime":596.02,"body":"can't operate the next few"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":592.39,"endTime":596.02,"body":"weeks or months, then there's"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":596.02,"endTime":597.76,"body":"the actual loss of service."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":597.76,"endTime":602.65,"body":"But if you have bus depotsand"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":597.76,"endTime":602.65,"body":"you have 20, or even, I don't"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":602.65,"endTime":607.968,"body":"know, we had a fire in 2011 with"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":602.65,"endTime":607.968,"body":"nearly 70 buses in one incident."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":608.148,"endTime":609.788,"body":"Now that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":608.148,"endTime":609.788,"body":"is quite the disturbance."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":610.058,"endTime":612.878,"body":"So I'm going to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":610.058,"endTime":612.878,"body":"them material issue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":612.878,"endTime":615.698,"body":"I assume you've started"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":612.878,"endTime":615.698,"body":"interesting in materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":616.028,"endTime":617.918,"body":"after this big fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.918,"endTime":620.155,"body":"And what was your first"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":617.918,"endTime":620.155,"body":"surprising finding"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":620.155,"endTime":621.445,"body":"regarding the materials?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":621.715,"endTime":624.458,"body":"What did you expect when"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":621.715,"endTime":624.458,"body":"you've entered the study and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":624.458,"endTime":626.018,"body":"what did you find out about."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":626.521,"endTime":628.868,"body":"Yeah, we were"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":626.521,"endTime":628.868,"body":"really surprised that's a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":628.868,"endTime":633.118,"body":"requirements  for the automotive"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":628.868,"endTime":633.118,"body":"sector, are uh, really below"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":633.178,"endTime":634.978,"body":"all the other transport sectors."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":635.165,"endTime":640.275,"body":"The requirements are going"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":635.165,"endTime":640.275,"body":"back to the 1960's and,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":640.282,"endTime":643.515,"body":"they consider mostly very"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":640.282,"endTime":643.515,"body":"little ignition sources"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":643.515,"endTime":645.825,"body":"like lighters or matches."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":646.255,"endTime":648.245,"body":"They're supposed to"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":646.255,"endTime":648.245,"body":"be smoker equipment."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":648.245,"endTime":653.77,"body":"It was b ased on the assumptions"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":648.245,"endTime":653.77,"body":"that someone who smokes in the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":653.77,"endTime":657.117,"body":"car doesn't set the car on fire."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":657.75,"endTime":661.513,"body":"But over the years, I mean a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":657.75,"endTime":661.513,"body":"car or a bus from the sixties"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":661.513,"endTime":665.413,"body":"is not really comparable"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":661.513,"endTime":665.413,"body":"with something we have today."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":665.923,"endTime":670.393,"body":"So there, the amount of plastic"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":665.923,"endTime":670.393,"body":"is really not comparable"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":670.459,"endTime":671.819,"body":"to these older buses."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":671.849,"endTime":676.231,"body":"And, it seems unreasonably,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":671.849,"endTime":676.231,"body":"you said it's, um, Plastics"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":676.231,"endTime":679.354,"body":"than before for comfort"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":676.231,"endTime":679.354,"body":"and for other things."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":680.134,"endTime":682.831,"body":"And, so it was the materials"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":680.134,"endTime":682.831,"body":"behave quite different"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":682.831,"endTime":684.751,"body":"from say train materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":684.801,"endTime":688.724,"body":"And because the requirements"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":684.801,"endTime":688.724,"body":"are so low, you have, total"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":688.754,"endTime":692.553,"body":"different fire behavior as"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":688.754,"endTime":692.553,"body":"materials if you compare a bus"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":692.553,"endTime":696.408,"body":"seat and the train sit, they"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":692.553,"endTime":696.408,"body":"burn completely different."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":696.408,"endTime":699.258,"body":"So it's not only the material"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":696.408,"endTime":699.258,"body":"itself, but if you have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":699.258,"endTime":703.525,"body":"a  component like a sit that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":699.258,"endTime":703.525,"body":"it burns totally different."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":703.525,"endTime":704.965,"body":"If you have a train seat."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":704.965,"endTime":710.625,"body":"And we made a lot of experiments"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":704.965,"endTime":710.625,"body":"with, paper cushions and,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":710.625,"endTime":713.355,"body":"cushions, we ignited this"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":710.625,"endTime":713.355,"body":"paper cautions on top of"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":713.385,"endTime":717.885,"body":"the seat or a seat mock"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":713.385,"endTime":717.885,"body":"up and the train seat is."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":719.25,"endTime":722.08,"body":"So that it's not burning,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":719.25,"endTime":722.08,"body":"there's a paper cushion"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":722.1,"endTime":724.57,"body":"is burning and then it's"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":722.1,"endTime":724.57,"body":"not burning further."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":724.98,"endTime":728.273,"body":"And, if you have a bus seat"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":724.98,"endTime":728.273,"body":"and within two minutes, a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":728.273,"endTime":731.67,"body":"whole, the whole seat is"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":728.273,"endTime":731.67,"body":"burning and it, doesn't stop."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":731.82,"endTime":733.842,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":731.82,"endTime":733.842,"body":"I have in front of me your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":733.842,"endTime":738.341,"body":"report, buses, and there's like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":733.842,"endTime":738.341,"body":"an array of, pictures showing,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":738.362,"endTime":742.802,"body":"the calorimetry tests of train"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":738.362,"endTime":742.802,"body":"seats, coach seats, city bus"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":742.802,"endTime":745.742,"body":"from 95 and city bus from 2005."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":746.312,"endTime":750.125,"body":"And I assume, from the pictures"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":746.312,"endTime":750.125,"body":"itself, you can clearly see,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":750.205,"endTime":756.515,"body":", how different each of them"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":750.205,"endTime":756.515,"body":"behaves and how bigger, the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":756.515,"endTime":758.555,"body":"is when it's, in the city bus."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":758.945,"endTime":762.455,"body":"And it actually develops"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":758.945,"endTime":762.455,"body":"after the initial of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":762.455,"endTime":764.195,"body":"fire source , is removed."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":764.585,"endTime":765.155,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":765.495,"endTime":769.172,"body":"This, concept of resisting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":765.495,"endTime":769.172,"body":"the ignition sources is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":769.592,"endTime":771.092,"body":"east clearly feeling here."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":771.259,"endTime":773.775,"body":"I know my colleagues, we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":771.259,"endTime":773.775,"body":"have similar issues with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":773.985,"endTime":776.985,"body":"testing, building materials,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":773.985,"endTime":776.985,"body":"and I know they have some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":776.985,"endTime":779.525,"body":"tests where you have, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":776.985,"endTime":779.525,"body":"example, put, cigarettes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":779.555,"endTime":781.205,"body":"against the material to test."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":781.205,"endTime":783.995,"body":"And we were actually running"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":781.205,"endTime":783.995,"body":"out of cigarettes that meet"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":783.995,"endTime":786.58,"body":"the requirements of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":783.995,"endTime":786.58,"body":"standard is a quite quiet,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":786.58,"endTime":788.992,"body":"difficult to obtain a,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":786.58,"endTime":788.992,"body":"such a horrible cigarette."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":789.637,"endTime":789.937,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":790.372,"endTime":794.595,"body":"As the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":790.372,"endTime":794.595,"body":"test standard requires, here, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":794.595,"endTime":798.461,"body":"always had this, I know no doubt"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":794.595,"endTime":798.461,"body":"interest in understanding these"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":798.461,"endTime":803.635,"body":"tests because for me, when you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":798.461,"endTime":803.635,"body":"define the ignition source, so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":803.635,"endTime":806.315,"body":"well you can, I was a producer"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":806.57,"endTime":807.74,"body":"I could play around it."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":807.77,"endTime":810.913,"body":"You know, I could make a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":807.77,"endTime":810.913,"body":"material that, resist this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":810.913,"endTime":814.206,"body":"particular ignition source"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":810.913,"endTime":814.206,"body":"and just stop my development"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":814.206,"endTime":817.056,"body":"after that because I've"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":814.206,"endTime":817.056,"body":"passed the test and I'm good."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":817.596,"endTime":822.616,"body":"And if you look at the that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":817.596,"endTime":822.616,"body":"from,  scientist perspective,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":822.976,"endTime":826.066,"body":"if you go into like material"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":822.976,"endTime":826.066,"body":"science, even at the simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":826.066,"endTime":830.866,"body":"concept of activation energy"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":826.066,"endTime":830.866,"body":"or ignition temper, It's not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":830.866,"endTime":833.686,"body":"that it doesn't ignite you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":830.866,"endTime":833.686,"body":"just move the boundary of what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":833.686,"endTime":835.206,"body":"is necessary to ignite that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":835.716,"endTime":840.456,"body":"So my next question is, did"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":835.716,"endTime":840.456,"body":"you go beyond the ignition"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":840.486,"endTime":844.226,"body":"properties and, and kept"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":840.486,"endTime":844.226,"body":"burning these items to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":844.316,"endTime":845.456,"body":"learn more about them?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":845.951,"endTime":848.148,"body":"Um, yes, we,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":845.951,"endTime":848.148,"body":"we compared them to the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":848.148,"endTime":849.708,"body":"tests from the train sector."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":850.218,"endTime":852.108,"body":"So we put, bus materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":852.128,"endTime":855.478,"body":"We obtained from suppliers"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":852.128,"endTime":855.478,"body":"or, , one , from a real bus."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":855.528,"endTime":860.058,"body":"We could take , some specimens"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":855.528,"endTime":860.058,"body":"and we tested them against"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":860.058,"endTime":863.058,"body":"the train regulations,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":860.058,"endTime":863.058,"body":"European train regulations."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":863.688,"endTime":867.098,"body":"And you can see a very big"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":863.688,"endTime":867.098,"body":"difference because none of"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":867.098,"endTime":870.315,"body":"the materials we tested,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":867.098,"endTime":870.315,"body":"from the different sources"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":870.555,"endTime":872.095,"body":"would be allowed in a train."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":872.675,"endTime":876.706,"body":"So we found not one single"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":872.675,"endTime":876.706,"body":"material which passed, the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":876.706,"endTime":878.346,"body":"European tests for trains."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":878.763,"endTime":882.296,"body":"and, I think trains and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":878.763,"endTime":882.296,"body":"buses, some of that different"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":882.566,"endTime":884.426,"body":"if even many look yeah."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":884.486,"endTime":885.476,"body":"How they operate."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":885.476,"endTime":889.133,"body":"So, the argument often is"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":885.476,"endTime":889.133,"body":"that the bus is, easier to"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":889.133,"endTime":891.713,"body":"stop on the street and that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":889.133,"endTime":891.713,"body":"it can stop everything."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":892.598,"endTime":894.698,"body":"But on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":892.598,"endTime":894.698,"body":"you need some time."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":894.698,"endTime":897.548,"body":"I mean, if you're on a motor"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":894.698,"endTime":897.548,"body":"way or if you're in a tunnel,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":897.908,"endTime":901.838,"body":"you need some time to stop and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":897.908,"endTime":901.838,"body":"you need some time to evacuate,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":902.195,"endTime":905.828,"body":"so I think if you compare,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":902.195,"endTime":905.828,"body":"a city, tram and  city bus."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":905.918,"endTime":907.808,"body":"It's it's not so different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":908.21,"endTime":909.59,"body":"And was, it was like all"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":909.59,"endTime":911.09,"body":"flammability characteristics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":911.09,"endTime":914.21,"body":"Like it was both the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":911.09,"endTime":914.21,"body":"heat release rates smoke"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":914.21,"endTime":917.33,"body":"production, uh, the yields"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":914.21,"endTime":917.33,"body":"of toxic materials, or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":917.33,"endTime":919.97,"body":"just some particular ones"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":917.33,"endTime":919.97,"body":"that went out of range."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":920.32,"endTime":923.29,"body":"It is more or"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":920.32,"endTime":923.29,"body":"less everything, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":923.603,"endTime":924.743,"body":"that's very positive."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":924.933,"endTime":925.713,"body":"Yeah, I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":927.498,"endTime":930.398,"body":"These are the main test in,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":927.498,"endTime":930.398,"body":"the automotive sector is a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":930.398,"endTime":934.238,"body":"horizontal test and, I think"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":930.398,"endTime":934.238,"body":"I don't have to explain to"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":934.268,"endTime":935.528,"body":"you, I mean, if you're, if you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":935.578,"endTime":937.228,"body":"Yeah, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":935.578,"endTime":937.228,"body":"you're very, very welcome to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":937.228,"endTime":938.428,"body":"explain it to the listeners."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":939.008,"endTime":940.968,"body":"if you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":939.008,"endTime":940.968,"body":"have a match and you hold"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":940.968,"endTime":944.568,"body":"it in horizontal way it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":940.968,"endTime":944.568,"body":"will not burn very much."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":944.598,"endTime":947.288,"body":"And if you, have it in"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":944.598,"endTime":947.288,"body":"a vertical direction,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":947.288,"endTime":949.058,"body":"it will burn much more."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":949.448,"endTime":953.138,"body":"So it was the horizontal test"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":949.448,"endTime":953.138,"body":"is not merely discriminating,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":953.408,"endTime":956.378,"body":"a lot of materials, which"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":953.408,"endTime":956.378,"body":"means in the end that you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":956.378,"endTime":958.928,"body":"can use a lot of materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":958.938,"endTime":961.278,"body":"You are not allowed"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":958.938,"endTime":961.278,"body":"in other sectors."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":961.308,"endTime":964.428,"body":"I mean, even in the building"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":961.308,"endTime":964.428,"body":"sector, you have a vertical test"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":964.458,"endTime":966.888,"body":"is a minimum flammability tests."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":966.918,"endTime":969.468,"body":"And this is the same in"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":966.918,"endTime":969.468,"body":"the train sector in so"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":969.478,"endTime":971.778,"body":"ships and we say aircraft."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":971.931,"endTime":976.085,"body":"I think the horizontal test"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":971.931,"endTime":976.085,"body":"as a minimum requirement"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":976.085,"endTime":978.565,"body":"is not working very"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":976.085,"endTime":978.565,"body":"well because, , it's not"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":978.685,"endTime":980.695,"body":"discriminating enough materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":981.385,"endTime":985.575,"body":"So at least it will be good"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":981.385,"endTime":985.575,"body":"to have, vertical tests as"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":985.575,"endTime":989.055,"body":"a minimum requirement as it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":985.575,"endTime":989.055,"body":"is in, in others sectors."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":989.807,"endTime":992.987,"body":"In all the, as a transport"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":989.807,"endTime":992.987,"body":"sector, as you limit the heat"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":992.987,"endTime":996.607,"body":"release rate and, the smoke"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":992.987,"endTime":996.607,"body":"production and the toxicity and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":996.657,"endTime":1000.977,"body":", In the bus sector or in the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":996.657,"endTime":1000.977,"body":"automotive sector, you only have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1001.037,"endTime":1002.447,"body":"the flammability more or less."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1002.447,"endTime":1005.387,"body":"You have the vertical tests"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1002.447,"endTime":1005.387,"body":"and the horizontal tests."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1005.407,"endTime":1009.15,"body":"And you have one which is a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1005.407,"endTime":1009.15,"body":"smelting, the specimen, but"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1009.21,"endTime":1012.73,"body":"you don't have anything which"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1009.21,"endTime":1012.73,"body":"measures the heat release rate"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1012.73,"endTime":1014.11,"body":"or limits the heat release rate."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1014.11,"endTime":1016.06,"body":"And you have nothing"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1014.11,"endTime":1016.06,"body":"which limits the smoke"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1016.06,"endTime":1017.44,"body":"production or is it toxicity?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1018.4,"endTime":1019.06,"body":"This is interesting."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1019.06,"endTime":1023.205,"body":"So, so you said that,  in this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1019.06,"endTime":1023.205,"body":"particular area  the whole, fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1023.205,"endTime":1027.649,"body":"safety of the, vehicle\\ actually"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1023.205,"endTime":1027.649,"body":"was brought down to the concept"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1027.679,"endTime":1029.029,"body":", of pretty much ignition."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1029.479,"endTime":1032.925,"body":"So, that's the one and sole"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1029.479,"endTime":1032.925,"body":"layer of protection that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1032.925,"endTime":1036.495,"body":"it's actively verified with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1032.925,"endTime":1036.495,"body":"these horizontal tests and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1036.495,"endTime":1037.575,"body":"melting to some point, I"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1037.835,"endTime":1037.895,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1038.175,"endTime":1040.875,"body":"a, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1038.175,"endTime":1040.875,"body":"that's also a characteristic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1040.875,"endTime":1043.415,"body":"that I would put into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1040.875,"endTime":1043.415,"body":"bracket of fire spread."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1043.857,"endTime":1045.142,"body":"more than anything else."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1045.262,"endTime":1049.512,"body":"Uh, because before your, ceiling"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1045.262,"endTime":1049.512,"body":"starts melting on passengers,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1049.812,"endTime":1051.702,"body":"they're probably already"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1049.812,"endTime":1051.702,"body":"dead from the smoke anyway."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1051.922,"endTime":1055.665,"body":"It's very, ignition"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1051.922,"endTime":1055.665,"body":"oriented where."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1056.48,"endTime":1060.42,"body":"Uh, from the test that I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1056.48,"endTime":1060.42,"body":"know where you would do heat"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1060.44,"endTime":1063.29,"body":"release rates in any form,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1060.44,"endTime":1063.29,"body":"even simple heat of combustion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1063.59,"endTime":1066.607,"body":"That's an indicator of,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1063.59,"endTime":1066.607,"body":"let's say the amount of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1066.607,"endTime":1069.677,"body":"heat or the size of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1066.607,"endTime":1069.677,"body":"fire that can be produced."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1070.217,"endTime":1071.117,"body":"If you do cone."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1071.617,"endTime":1076.517,"body":"You look at the very beautiful"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1071.617,"endTime":1076.517,"body":"picture of the fire behavior"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1076.517,"endTime":1079.577,"body":"of the material, including"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1076.517,"endTime":1079.577,"body":"reaction to heat feedback."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1079.607,"endTime":1083.477,"body":"Ignitability into the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1079.607,"endTime":1083.477,"body":"production of toxic products."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1083.867,"endTime":1089.127,"body":"When we go into, into buildings"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1083.867,"endTime":1089.127,"body":"and how we would verify many of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1089.127,"endTime":1091.907,"body":"the features for the buildings,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1089.127,"endTime":1091.907,"body":"you would enter this , single"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1091.907,"endTime":1096.207,"body":"burning item tests SBI, where,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1091.907,"endTime":1096.207,"body":"you would holistically look at"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1096.207,"endTime":1099.037,"body":"the fire behavior of an element."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1099.037,"endTime":1102.8,"body":"And I can clearly imagine"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1099.037,"endTime":1102.8,"body":"myself putting a, bus chair"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1103.07,"endTime":1106.79,"body":"inside SBI that's perfectly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1103.07,"endTime":1106.79,"body":"viable and could be."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1107.645,"endTime":1111.065,"body":"And, if you go up there's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1107.645,"endTime":1111.065,"body":"room corner, maybe not, , as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1111.065,"endTime":1115.009,"body":"used as many years ago, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1111.065,"endTime":1115.009,"body":"also holistic view on, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1115.039,"endTime":1119.329,"body":"characteristics of your, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1115.039,"endTime":1119.329,"body":"materials in compartment."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1120.389,"endTime":1125.129,"body":"Your view and your possibilities"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1120.389,"endTime":1125.129,"body":"of understanding the fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1125.129,"endTime":1129.929,"body":"behavior are like infinitely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1125.129,"endTime":1129.929,"body":"bigger than just flammability."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1129.929,"endTime":1132.3,"body":"Do you miss this features"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1129.929,"endTime":1132.3,"body":"in this simple tests?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1132.337,"endTime":1132.697,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1132.724,"endTime":1133.744,"body":"Several aspects."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1133.744,"endTime":1136.704,"body":"You have a very small ignition"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1133.744,"endTime":1136.704,"body":"source, like a Bunsen burner."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1136.714,"endTime":1140.104,"body":"So even the flammability"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1136.714,"endTime":1140.104,"body":"test is not very strong."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1141.064,"endTime":1144.704,"body":"And, in the recent regulations,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1141.064,"endTime":1144.704,"body":"you have more of the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1144.944,"endTime":1149.3,"body":"vertical test, but only for"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1144.944,"endTime":1149.3,"body":"vertical mounted materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1149.81,"endTime":1151.79,"body":"So something like the ceiling."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1152.63,"endTime":1156.89,"body":"Not vertical mounted would not"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1152.63,"endTime":1156.89,"body":"have to pass a vertical test,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1156.917,"endTime":1160.86,"body":"but it, can promote the fire"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1156.917,"endTime":1160.86,"body":"very well because you ignite"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1161.19,"endTime":1165.57,"body":"ignites a ceiling very fast"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1161.19,"endTime":1165.57,"body":"and then it spreads very good."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1166.319,"endTime":1170.355,"body":"And, then on the other side"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1166.319,"endTime":1170.355,"body":"the heat release rate and smoke"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1170.355,"endTime":1173.065,"body":"production rate would tell"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1170.355,"endTime":1173.065,"body":"you something, obviously your"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1173.099,"endTime":1175.489,"body":"ability to, to spread the fire."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1175.999,"endTime":1179.734,"body":"And if you don't limit the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1175.999,"endTime":1179.734,"body":"heat release rate Really"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1179.734,"endTime":1181.294,"body":"really high heat release rates."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1181.294,"endTime":1184.414,"body":"And it will tell you is it's"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1181.294,"endTime":1184.414,"body":"a fire propagates through the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1184.474,"endTime":1186.304,"body":"passenger cabin very quickly."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1187.054,"endTime":1189.844,"body":"And if you don't limit as"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1187.054,"endTime":1189.844,"body":"a smoke production, you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1189.844,"endTime":1193.294,"body":"will have less visibility"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1189.844,"endTime":1193.294,"body":"very, very quickly."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1193.804,"endTime":1196.66,"body":"And so if the passanger"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1193.804,"endTime":1196.66,"body":"just can't see easy, easy"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1196.66,"endTime":1199.72,"body":"exit, so I probably won't"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1196.66,"endTime":1199.72,"body":"be able to reach it."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1199.75,"endTime":1204.72,"body":"So, with this fire in 2009,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1199.75,"endTime":1204.72,"body":"um, they found passengers"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1204.87,"endTime":1209.29,"body":"which were still stripped on"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1204.87,"endTime":1209.29,"body":"their sits, so they didn't"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1209.29,"endTime":1213.667,"body":"even lose the seatbelt,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1209.29,"endTime":1213.667,"body":"because it, it was so fast."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1214.007,"endTime":1215.567,"body":"So, and that yeah."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1215.627,"endTime":1218.117,"body":"Tells you something"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1215.627,"endTime":1218.117,"body":"about the, the timeline"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1218.117,"endTime":1219.977,"body":"in this development."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1219.977,"endTime":1223.007,"body":"And that is, if you look"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1219.977,"endTime":1223.007,"body":"at pictures from bus"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1223.007,"endTime":1225.887,"body":"fires, you very often you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1223.007,"endTime":1225.887,"body":"sees the same picture."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1226.307,"endTime":1228.917,"body":"That's, there's no"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1226.307,"endTime":1228.917,"body":"combustible material left."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1229.337,"endTime":1231.827,"body":"You only have the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1229.337,"endTime":1231.827,"body":"metal parts of the bus."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1232.517,"endTime":1234.85,"body":"And this goes"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1232.517,"endTime":1234.85,"body":"really, really quick."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1235.18,"endTime":1239.027,"body":"So if even if the fire service"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1235.18,"endTime":1239.027,"body":"is relatively quick and is at"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1239.027,"endTime":1243.007,"body":"the scene at 10 minutes and they"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1239.027,"endTime":1243.007,"body":"don't have any chance to rescue."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1244.112,"endTime":1244.742,"body":"Somebody."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1245.102,"endTime":1248.892,"body":"So you have a situation when"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1245.102,"endTime":1248.892,"body":"you accept that's a fireservice,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1248.912,"endTime":1251.355,"body":"can't rescue anybody body."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1251.355,"endTime":1253.809,"body":"And there's this for"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1251.355,"endTime":1253.809,"body":"me, that is a strange"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1254.269,"endTime":1254.689,"body":"situation."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1255.549,"endTime":1257.755,"body":"I took"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1255.549,"endTime":1257.755,"body":"you here on purpose because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1257.935,"endTime":1259.525,"body":"this particular issue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1259.65,"endTime":1263.337,"body":"It's like a microcosm of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1259.65,"endTime":1263.337,"body":"the issues of fire safety we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1263.337,"endTime":1264.887,"body":"have in all sectors of fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1265.426,"endTime":1268.719,"body":"That's the methods driving the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1265.426,"endTime":1268.719,"body":"development, not the fire safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1268.749,"endTime":1272.589,"body":"focusing on one particular"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1268.749,"endTime":1272.589,"body":"characteristic of a material."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1273.099,"endTime":1278.019,"body":"Also in the context of passing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1273.099,"endTime":1278.019,"body":"a test without having a holistic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1278.019,"endTime":1282.935,"body":"view over the use of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1278.019,"endTime":1282.935,"body":"material and the environment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1282.935,"endTime":1287.629,"body":"in which it will be used,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1282.935,"endTime":1287.629,"body":"focusing on small scale."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1288.11,"endTime":1292.48,"body":"Events such as an ignition of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1288.11,"endTime":1292.48,"body":"a chair Without considering,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1292.51,"endTime":1296.44,"body":"uh, how this behave when it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1292.51,"endTime":1296.44,"body":"was a group of buses parked"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1299.273,"body":"next to each other, where"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1296.44,"endTime":1299.273,"body":"your heat release rate or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1299.333,"endTime":1303.113,"body":"the size of a fire next to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1299.333,"endTime":1303.113,"body":"your bus is so tremendous."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1303.113,"endTime":1306.043,"body":"You're, doesn't matter what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1303.113,"endTime":1306.043,"body":"your, ignition temperature"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1306.043,"endTime":1307.123,"body":"was of your material."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1307.333,"endTime":1308.353,"body":"It will ignite."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1308.519,"endTime":1312.628,"body":"And, I guess in your very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1308.519,"endTime":1312.628,"body":"deep work on this subject,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1312.668,"endTime":1315.248,"body":"the government asked you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1312.668,"endTime":1315.248,"body":"to investigate this, to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1315.248,"endTime":1317.031,"body":"prevent this, in your study."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1317.041,"endTime":1318.511,"body":"did you reach these conclusions?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1318.511,"endTime":1321.728,"body":"Like, this has to change"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1318.511,"endTime":1321.728,"body":"otherwise this large-scale"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1321.728,"endTime":1323.078,"body":"evens will continue."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1323.378,"endTime":1327.018,"body":"Um, yes, I think"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1323.378,"endTime":1327.018,"body":"we had several recommendations."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1327.378,"endTime":1329.058,"body":"It was a smoke detection."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1329.058,"endTime":1333.028,"body":"It was the engine suppression,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1329.058,"endTime":1333.028,"body":"because a lot of fires, at"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1333.028,"endTime":1337.858,"body":"least in the, classic busses"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1333.028,"endTime":1337.858,"body":"are starting in, engine area."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1338.668,"endTime":1342.915,"body":"And so a suppression system"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1338.668,"endTime":1342.915,"body":"is, is very, um, useful to,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1343.735,"endTime":1348.685,"body":"Slow down the fire until the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1343.735,"endTime":1348.685,"body":"fire service is on scene."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1349.295,"endTime":1352.355,"body":"One aspect we recommended,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1349.295,"endTime":1352.355,"body":"I think we are recommending"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1352.355,"endTime":1355.525,"body":"this for 10 years now or"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1352.355,"endTime":1355.525,"body":"something like that to do"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1355.525,"endTime":1357.115,"body":"something about the materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1357.205,"endTime":1359.125,"body":"And there is very slow change."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1359.425,"endTime":1362.185,"body":"I mean, there is this change"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1359.425,"endTime":1362.185,"body":"that you use a vertical"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1362.235,"endTime":1365.945,"body":"mounted of materials now"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1362.235,"endTime":1365.945,"body":"have to be tested vertically"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1366.505,"endTime":1368.845,"body":"but this is more or less"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1366.505,"endTime":1368.845,"body":"the only thing which has"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1368.875,"endTime":1370.525,"body":"changed with the materials."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1370.625,"endTime":1372.895,"body":"From my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1370.625,"endTime":1372.895,"body":"perspective, I'm very interested"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1372.895,"endTime":1378.195,"body":"in the topic of fire sources"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1372.895,"endTime":1378.195,"body":"and size of fires and,  plastics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1378.195,"endTime":1381.135,"body":"in relation to the size of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1378.195,"endTime":1381.135,"body":"the fire, it's also something"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1381.135,"endTime":1382.725,"body":"that is, I'm really curious."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1382.725,"endTime":1384.635,"body":"And maybe, , we can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1382.725,"endTime":1384.635,"body":"talk about that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1385.115,"endTime":1389.245,"body":"The use of the plastics in our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1385.115,"endTime":1389.245,"body":"vehicles, over the decades,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1389.545,"endTime":1394.215,"body":"how it's changed and,  Does"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1389.545,"endTime":1394.215,"body":"this invalidate our assumptions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1394.215,"endTime":1397.785,"body":"for fire safety in many of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1394.215,"endTime":1397.785,"body":"infrastructure projects, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1397.815,"endTime":1399.045,"body":"I'll give you my example."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1399.555,"endTime":1402.735,"body":"We do design car parks"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1399.555,"endTime":1402.735,"body":"for passenger vehicles."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1403.605,"endTime":1406.015,"body":"And, because there is no."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1406.13,"endTime":1410.725,"body":"Very much research on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1406.13,"endTime":1410.725,"body":"fires and passengers vehicles."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1411.035,"endTime":1414.035,"body":"There is very few"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1411.035,"endTime":1414.035,"body":"holistic projects on that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1414.485,"endTime":1418.645,"body":"We still would base our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1414.485,"endTime":1418.645,"body":"design from a fire, tests"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1418.675,"endTime":1422.815,"body":"by TNO in 1999, because they"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1418.675,"endTime":1422.815,"body":"were very well documented."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1422.815,"endTime":1423.955,"body":"They were done in the car park."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1423.955,"endTime":1424.791,"body":"They were very well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1425.032,"endTime":1426.195,"body":"Performed experiments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1426.525,"endTime":1430.165,"body":"Of course there were further"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1426.525,"endTime":1430.165,"body":"experiments in BRE , there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1430.165,"endTime":1433.075,"body":"were some in Japan recently,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1430.165,"endTime":1433.075,"body":"not saying that there was no"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1433.075,"endTime":1436.408,"body":"research, but I still find"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1433.075,"endTime":1436.408,"body":"it very hard to replace my"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1436.708,"endTime":1439.558,"body":"20 year old design fire,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1436.708,"endTime":1439.558,"body":"because I feel confident"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1439.558,"endTime":1443.398,"body":"regarding the setup, not this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1439.558,"endTime":1443.398,"body":"is really the vehicle and now."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1443.505,"endTime":1444.435,"body":"1999."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1444.435,"endTime":1447.135,"body":"So they've burned vehicles,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1444.435,"endTime":1447.135,"body":"like not fresh from the factory."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1447.135,"endTime":1450.105,"body":"They must have bought like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1447.135,"endTime":1450.105,"body":"few years old cars, like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1450.135,"endTime":1453.495,"body":"VRE, both 10 year old cars"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1450.135,"endTime":1453.495,"body":"for their experiments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1454.035,"endTime":1457.998,"body":"So I'm basing on like beginning"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1454.035,"endTime":1457.998,"body":"of that, of the nineties."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1458.358,"endTime":1461.598,"body":"So vehicles from that period"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1458.358,"endTime":1461.598,"body":"would now be considered classics"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1461.958,"endTime":1463.758,"body":"and they increase in value now."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1463.758,"endTime":1464.408,"body":"And, , the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1465.233,"endTime":1468.473,"body":"Completely different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1465.233,"endTime":1468.473,"body":"from what I have and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1468.473,"endTime":1469.703,"body":"what I see in my carpark."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1470.153,"endTime":1473.893,"body":"Like it's a totally different"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1470.153,"endTime":1473.893,"body":"planet, a completely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1473.893,"endTime":1477.013,"body":"different, every, everything"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1473.893,"endTime":1477.013,"body":"is plastic, everything."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1477.343,"endTime":1480.553,"body":"So maybe you have a number"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1477.343,"endTime":1480.553,"body":"for that, or maybe just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1480.553,"endTime":1484.393,"body":"rough assumption, but to what"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1480.553,"endTime":1484.393,"body":"extent, this increase in how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1484.693,"endTime":1487.753,"body":"much it changes the holistic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1484.693,"endTime":1487.753,"body":"image of the vehicle fire."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1488.663,"endTime":1490.443,"body":"no, I,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1488.663,"endTime":1490.443,"body":"I can't quantify it."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1490.863,"endTime":1491.433,"body":"I'm sorry."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1491.443,"endTime":1496.483,"body":"but what I can say certainly"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1491.443,"endTime":1496.483,"body":"is that it's a cars up totally"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1496.483,"endTime":1499.723,"body":"different from, from the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1496.483,"endTime":1499.723,"body":"curse 10 or 20 years ago."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1499.723,"endTime":1502.723,"body":"So they burn quite different."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1502.723,"endTime":1506.743,"body":"So you see sometimes if you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1502.723,"endTime":1506.743,"body":"only look at the parts there,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1506.743,"endTime":1508.133,"body":"they're a very big difference."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1508.413,"endTime":1511.93,"body":"And, , we did this, seat,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1508.413,"endTime":1511.93,"body":"experiment you mentioned before."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1512.56,"endTime":1516.43,"body":"And unfortunately the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1512.56,"endTime":1516.43,"body":"newest seat burned much"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1516.43,"endTime":1517.84,"body":"more than the older seats."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1517.84,"endTime":1522.13,"body":"So even in this bus, you could"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1517.84,"endTime":1522.13,"body":"see that after a few years, the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1522.13,"endTime":1526.36,"body":"situation got worse and that is"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1522.13,"endTime":1526.36,"body":"not something you would expect."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1526.36,"endTime":1530.06,"body":"I mean, you would expect that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1526.36,"endTime":1530.06,"body":"the more modern seat, burns,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1530.06,"endTime":1533.48,"body":"not as much as the older one,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1530.06,"endTime":1533.48,"body":"but it's, that's not the case."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1533.78,"endTime":1538.29,"body":"Your old seat has a wood parts"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1533.78,"endTime":1538.29,"body":"and the newer seat didn't have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1538.29,"endTime":1540.03,"body":"any Woodpro parts anymore."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1540.51,"endTime":1541.906,"body":"And, there was a foam."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1542.558,"endTime":1543.548,"body":"Totally different."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1543.668,"endTime":1545.288,"body":"can't say what it is because we,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1545.841,"endTime":1549.345,"body":"we don't know it was from,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1545.841,"endTime":1549.345,"body":"from two actual buses, but,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1549.396,"endTime":1552.701,"body":"it was, um, thicker and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1549.396,"endTime":1552.701,"body":"it was more material it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1552.701,"endTime":1554.051,"body":"looked and felt different."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1554.051,"endTime":1557.928,"body":"So there is a lot of change"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1554.051,"endTime":1557.928,"body":"in this materials and that,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1557.978,"endTime":1560.828,"body":"leads to, to a totally"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1557.978,"endTime":1560.828,"body":"different burning behavior."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1561.305,"endTime":1562.998,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1561.305,"endTime":1562.998,"body":"it's um, more material."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1563.558,"endTime":1565.928,"body":"It's easier to ignite."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1566.498,"endTime":1568.828,"body":"And, from your report,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1566.498,"endTime":1568.828,"body":"I also assume it's,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1568.865,"endTime":1570.035,"body":"also more toxic, right?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1570.085,"endTime":1572.605,"body":"We found that"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1570.085,"endTime":1572.605,"body":"so smoke production is very"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1572.605,"endTime":1577.725,"body":"high and let's say toxicity"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1572.605,"endTime":1577.725,"body":"is very high in, was it toxic"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1577.725,"endTime":1580.065,"body":"components are very present."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1580.665,"endTime":1584.745,"body":"And,  we try to find out"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1580.665,"endTime":1584.745,"body":"whether you can, , limit one"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1584.745,"endTime":1588.015,"body":"perimeter so that you don't"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1584.745,"endTime":1588.015,"body":"have to look at everything."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1588.045,"endTime":1591.555,"body":"And there's a train regulations"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1588.045,"endTime":1591.555,"body":"are quite complicated because"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1591.555,"endTime":1594.765,"body":"you have to limit the smoke"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1591.555,"endTime":1594.765,"body":"productions, the heat release."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1595.56,"endTime":1597.45,"body":"And the toxicity."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1598.05,"endTime":1601.83,"body":"And so you have yeah, a whole"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1598.05,"endTime":1601.83,"body":"set of experiments and then"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1601.83,"endTime":1605.88,"body":"we saw maybe it can be easier,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1601.83,"endTime":1605.88,"body":"but unfortunately it was"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1605.88,"endTime":1607.56,"body":"all the materials we tested."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1607.89,"endTime":1611.96,"body":"We found that, , if you have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1607.89,"endTime":1611.96,"body":"a material, which is okay, in"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1611.96,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"terms of heat release, then"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1611.96,"endTime":1616.64,"body":"you can have a very toxic gases"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1616.67,"endTime":1619.16,"body":"or very high smoke production."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1619.16,"endTime":1621.59,"body":"So you need to look at all"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1619.16,"endTime":1621.59,"body":"those three parameters."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1622.55,"endTime":1626.983,"body":"Additionally to the flammability"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1622.55,"endTime":1626.983,"body":"to, , have really of material"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1626.983,"endTime":1628.093,"body":"which behaves better."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1628.633,"endTime":1632.14,"body":"So, , it is not enough to,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1628.633,"endTime":1632.14,"body":"look at one of these three"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1632.14,"endTime":1634.91,"body":"parameters, but you have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1632.14,"endTime":1634.91,"body":"to have a limit on all of"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1634.91,"endTime":1638.53,"body":"them so that you really have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1634.91,"endTime":1638.53,"body":"materials, which are better than"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1638.54,"endTime":1639.59,"body":"sense of once you are using."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1640.69,"endTime":1642.87,"body":"I also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1640.69,"endTime":1642.87,"body":"have my eyes on the graphs from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1642.9,"endTime":1644.84,"body":"the toxicity, of your reports."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1644.84,"endTime":1647.96,"body":"And one thing that's really"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1644.84,"endTime":1647.96,"body":"stressful to me is that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1647.96,"endTime":1650.56,"body":"even if, some materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1647.96,"endTime":1650.56,"body":"perform well in them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1650.95,"endTime":1653.65,"body":"There are other materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1650.95,"endTime":1653.65,"body":"who will perform horribly"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1653.65,"endTime":1658.98,"body":"bad like in one of your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1653.65,"endTime":1658.98,"body":"tests,  HCl is produced not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1658.98,"endTime":1662.755,"body":"in a, such a bad moment for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1658.98,"endTime":1662.755,"body":"like,  seatfoam or insulation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1662.775,"endTime":1666.695,"body":"materials, but then you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1662.775,"endTime":1666.695,"body":"floor coverings , or ceilings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1667.025,"endTime":1668.001,"body":"which go crazy."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1668.001,"endTime":1669.628,"body":"And, on other graphs"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1668.001,"endTime":1669.628,"body":"it's opposite."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1669.898,"endTime":1673.468,"body":"And yet in the vehicle, you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1669.898,"endTime":1673.468,"body":"the perfect mix of all of them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1673.808,"endTime":1676.486,"body":"Did you try, or maybe, you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1673.808,"endTime":1676.486,"body":"know, any tests where it would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1676.486,"endTime":1679.006,"body":"be tested like holistically,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1676.486,"endTime":1679.006,"body":"like the whole vehicle would"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1679.006,"endTime":1681.706,"body":"burn and these would be"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1679.006,"endTime":1681.706,"body":"measured or, or it was not"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1681.766,"endTime":1684.576,"body":"No, but I"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1681.766,"endTime":1684.576,"body":"think you need, , at first"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1684.576,"endTime":1687.336,"body":"you need, um, a scenario"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1684.576,"endTime":1687.336,"body":"you want to address."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1687.496,"endTime":1690.529,"body":"I think with all the asset"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1687.496,"endTime":1690.529,"body":"transport sectors say they have."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1691.074,"endTime":1693.864,"body":"A scenario in mind, which"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1691.074,"endTime":1693.864,"body":"they want to prevent."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1693.954,"endTime":1696.594,"body":"I mean, they have minimum"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1693.954,"endTime":1696.594,"body":"escape times we didn't"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1696.594,"endTime":1698.784,"body":"even agreed on that so far."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1698.874,"endTime":1701.544,"body":"How many time do you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1698.874,"endTime":1701.544,"body":"need to leave your bus"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1701.664,"endTime":1702.804,"body":"in the case of fire?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1703.344,"endTime":1708.474,"body":"And so no test is really"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1703.344,"endTime":1708.474,"body":"addressing this and, um,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1708.534,"endTime":1711.844,"body":"I think, yeah, we, we need"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1708.534,"endTime":1711.844,"body":"to concentrate in what"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1711.844,"endTime":1713.074,"body":"do we want to, to reach?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1713.104,"endTime":1717.004,"body":"Do we want to have, say"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1713.104,"endTime":1717.004,"body":"10 minutes or 15 minutes"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1717.094,"endTime":1719.314,"body":"for the person just"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1717.094,"endTime":1719.314,"body":"to, to leave the bus."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1719.744,"endTime":1720.134,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1720.134,"endTime":1722.624,"body":"You need to test, which"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1720.134,"endTime":1722.624,"body":"shows you in the end"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1722.714,"endTime":1723.794,"body":"that this is possible."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1723.794,"endTime":1727.577,"body":"I mean, we, we try to combine"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1723.794,"endTime":1727.577,"body":"numerical simulations with"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1727.577,"endTime":1729.437,"body":"our small scale tests."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1731.012,"endTime":1734.372,"body":"Um, what the benefit"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1731.012,"endTime":1734.372,"body":"is of some materials."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1734.402,"endTime":1736.622,"body":"And I think you,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1734.402,"endTime":1736.622,"body":"you could do this."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1736.632,"endTime":1740.809,"body":"If we had one calculation where"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1736.632,"endTime":1740.809,"body":"we, put in our, , model, train"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1740.809,"endTime":1743.986,"body":"seats, and, then we looked"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1740.809,"endTime":1743.986,"body":"out, I was a fire with develop."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1744.016,"endTime":1747.676,"body":"If you have a train seat instead"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1744.016,"endTime":1747.676,"body":"of a bus seat in your bus, and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1747.676,"endTime":1751.166,"body":"then you see that with this,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1747.676,"endTime":1751.166,"body":", Paper, cushion I mentioned"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1751.196,"endTime":1755.606,"body":"earlier then your, , development"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1751.196,"endTime":1755.606,"body":"is so much slower that you have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1755.606,"endTime":1757.606,"body":"so much more time to escape."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1757.606,"endTime":1760.916,"body":"So is that would really"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1757.606,"endTime":1760.916,"body":"give a very big benefit."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1760.966,"endTime":1763.875,"body":"And I think if you would"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1760.966,"endTime":1763.875,"body":"have better requirements"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1763.875,"endTime":1767.565,"body":"for seats you probably what"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1763.875,"endTime":1767.565,"body":"have really big Bennett"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1767.565,"endTime":1769.355,"body":"benefit, for the passangers"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1770.455,"endTime":1772.535,"body":"I also find"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1770.455,"endTime":1772.535,"body":"this really interesting because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1773.065,"endTime":1776.905,"body":"for me, it's very difficult,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1773.065,"endTime":1776.905,"body":"to change my point of view."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1777.725,"endTime":1781.529,"body":"Into the safety of the vehicle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1777.725,"endTime":1781.529,"body":"and vehicle users, because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1781.579,"endTime":1784.469,"body":"I'm so used to car parks and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1781.579,"endTime":1784.469,"body":"tunnels where I would care"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1784.469,"endTime":1787.919,"body":"about the infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1784.469,"endTime":1787.919,"body":"and everyone else basically."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1788.189,"endTime":1790.542,"body":"So it also shows how we're like."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1790.635,"endTime":1795.095,"body":"In kind of separate bubbles,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1790.635,"endTime":1795.095,"body":"uh, like I, I enjoy talking"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1795.095,"endTime":1797.645,"body":"to you and you most likely"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1795.095,"endTime":1797.645,"body":"enjoy talking to other fire"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1797.655,"endTime":1801.725,"body":"scientists, but there is no"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1797.655,"endTime":1801.725,"body":"industry to industry discussion."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1801.969,"endTime":1805.575,"body":"I feel there is no discussion"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1801.969,"endTime":1805.575,"body":"between the car industry"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1805.635,"endTime":1809.985,"body":"at a whole, with a built"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1805.635,"endTime":1809.985,"body":"environment industry as a whole."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1810.445,"endTime":1810.745,"body":"true."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1810.865,"endTime":1811.375,"body":"Hmm,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1811.59,"endTime":1813.45,"body":"and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1811.59,"endTime":1813.45,"body":"you cannot separate the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1813.45,"endTime":1816.45,"body":"world of vehicles from the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1813.45,"endTime":1816.45,"body":"world of buildings, which"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1816.48,"endTime":1818.34,"body":"are full vehicles to, use."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1818.82,"endTime":1823.77,"body":"And I find  lack of, connection"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1818.82,"endTime":1823.77,"body":"here that's really, really bad"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1823.77,"endTime":1829.18,"body":"for us all, because, there is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1823.77,"endTime":1829.18,"body":"so much we, as, as the building"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1829.18,"endTime":1834.007,"body":"industry,  could help with the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1829.18,"endTime":1834.007,"body":"other industry, like identify"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1834.007,"endTime":1836.017,"body":"with all the test methods"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1834.007,"endTime":1836.017,"body":"with cone's with everything."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1836.707,"endTime":1837.577,"body":"I mean, we've been there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1837.577,"endTime":1840.187,"body":"We had combustible"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1837.577,"endTime":1840.187,"body":"linings in buildings."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1840.187,"endTime":1842.707,"body":"People have died"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1840.187,"endTime":1842.707,"body":"and we fixed that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1843.04,"endTime":1849.07,"body":"We had a horrible flammability"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1843.04,"endTime":1849.07,"body":"issues and one way or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1849.07,"endTime":1851.14,"body":"another, they were controlled."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1851.32,"endTime":1852.1,"body":"We're battling with."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1852.68,"endTime":1856.49,"body":"Burning facades and it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1852.68,"endTime":1856.49,"body":"also a similar issue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1856.49,"endTime":1857.75,"body":"So it would be great."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1857.75,"endTime":1860.6,"body":"And then we have to design"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1857.75,"endTime":1860.6,"body":"our buildings for the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1860.6,"endTime":1863.54,"body":"dangers that this industry"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1860.6,"endTime":1863.54,"body":"is preparing for us."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1864.17,"endTime":1867.67,"body":"And now on this topic,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1864.17,"endTime":1867.67,"body":"on the dangerous that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1867.7,"endTime":1868.94,"body":"industry is preparing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1869.57,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"So let's go into the world"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1869.57,"endTime":1874.82,"body":"of electromobility and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1874.85,"endTime":1879.884,"body":"I'll start this by a very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1874.85,"endTime":1879.884,"body":"bold statement of my own."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1880.544,"endTime":1881.394,"body":"I would claim."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1882.244,"endTime":1886.788,"body":"That the change in the amount"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1882.244,"endTime":1886.788,"body":"of plastics in the vehicle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1886.797,"endTime":1891.697,"body":"and their burning behavior"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1886.797,"endTime":1891.697,"body":"is a far bigger risk factor"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1891.727,"endTime":1895.174,"body":"than  just using a battery"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1891.727,"endTime":1895.174,"body":"or, electric motor inside."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1895.234,"endTime":1898.714,"body":"I personally, if I see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1895.234,"endTime":1898.714,"body":"these two problems and I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1898.714,"endTime":1901.914,"body":"would have all the money"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1898.714,"endTime":1901.914,"body":"and resources to solve."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1903.099,"endTime":1905.259,"body":"I would go materials,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1903.099,"endTime":1905.259,"body":"not batteries."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1905.349,"endTime":1906.119,"body":"And  what would you pick"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1906.214,"endTime":1910.334,"body":"Um, I agree to"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1906.214,"endTime":1910.334,"body":"a point, I think, , if you,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1910.424,"endTime":1914.504,"body":"uh, compares of fire the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1910.424,"endTime":1914.504,"body":"engine fire from a battery"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1914.594,"endTime":1916.304,"body":"and, , and a gasolien, fire."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1917.094,"endTime":1918.294,"body":"it is comparable."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1918.474,"endTime":1920.964,"body":"So it just, uh, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1918.474,"endTime":1920.964,"body":"you have some additional"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1920.964,"endTime":1922.734,"body":"problems in, in both of them."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1922.764,"endTime":1926.307,"body":"I mean, if you have fuel and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1922.764,"endTime":1926.307,"body":"it can, distribute itself on"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1926.307,"endTime":1929.067,"body":"the floors and you have other"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1926.307,"endTime":1929.067,"body":"problems as with, as a battery"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1929.067,"endTime":1932.967,"body":"where you have more toxic cases"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1929.067,"endTime":1932.967,"body":"maybe, or some other, yeah."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1933.327,"endTime":1934.003,"body":"Something like that."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1934.003,"endTime":1937.454,"body":"But,i think the materials are"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1934.003,"endTime":1937.454,"body":"quite a big problem in both."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1938.219,"endTime":1940.709,"body":"And, um, often they"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1938.219,"endTime":1940.709,"body":"are not addressed."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1940.919,"endTime":1942.949,"body":"Often you were talking"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1940.919,"endTime":1942.949,"body":"about the, , the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1942.949,"endTime":1943.989,"body":"engine or the battery."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1944.269,"endTime":1947.202,"body":"And then you think, okay,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1944.269,"endTime":1947.202,"body":"that is really comparable."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1947.202,"endTime":1951.912,"body":"And I agree, but there's a whole"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1947.202,"endTime":1951.912,"body":"part of the materials is not"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1951.912,"endTime":1955.902,"body":"addressed and you have a lot"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1951.912,"endTime":1955.902,"body":"of problems in this area and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1956.232,"endTime":1958.092,"body":"I agree that they should be."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1959.182,"endTime":1962.182,"body":"I think one month problem you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1959.182,"endTime":1962.182,"body":"have with your better uses,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1962.212,"endTime":1964.972,"body":"if you're charging them,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1962.212,"endTime":1964.972,"body":"you're introducing another"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1964.972,"endTime":1966.592,"body":"possible ignition source."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1967.402,"endTime":1971.442,"body":"And we saw this in some of these"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1967.402,"endTime":1971.442,"body":"depot fires that, sometimes"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1971.442,"endTime":1973.812,"body":"the battery it causes the fire."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1974.562,"endTime":1977.112,"body":"And so if you have a car"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1974.562,"endTime":1977.112,"body":"park or a Depot and you are"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1977.112,"endTime":1982.362,"body":"charging, then you're adding"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":1977.112,"endTime":1982.362,"body":"more possible ignition sources."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1982.432,"endTime":1984.292,"body":"You"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1982.432,"endTime":1984.292,"body":"know, it's frustrating."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1984.292,"endTime":1986.572,"body":"There is this debate"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1984.292,"endTime":1986.572,"body":"on, on electric vehicles"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1986.572,"endTime":1987.732,"body":"and everything in the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1988.084,"endTime":1991.486,"body":"Vehicle's side of fire safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1988.084,"endTime":1991.486,"body":"is now so electric vehicle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1991.486,"endTime":1995.599,"body":"oriented and there that's the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1991.486,"endTime":1995.599,"body":"next big thing, but you go"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1995.599,"endTime":1999.379,"body":"over the fact that you have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1995.599,"endTime":1999.379,"body":"one ton of, highly combustible"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":1999.379,"endTime":2000.669,"body":"plastic in your vehicle."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2001.179,"endTime":2004.569,"body":"And this battery is, is not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2001.179,"endTime":2004.569,"body":"really changing that much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2005.172,"endTime":2010.272,"body":"From the infrastructure point of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2005.172,"endTime":2010.272,"body":"view, the largest fires in car"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2010.272,"endTime":2014.312,"body":"parks that happened recently,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2010.272,"endTime":2014.312,"body":", Stavanger airport fire the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2014.312,"endTime":2016.562,"body":"Liverpool, uh, Echo fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2016.892,"endTime":2019.532,"body":"We had a huge fire in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2016.892,"endTime":2019.532,"body":"the Warsaw we're a large"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2019.532,"endTime":2021.092,"body":"carpark as burned down."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2021.692,"endTime":2025.492,"body":"This were not so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2021.692,"endTime":2025.492,"body":"devastating because we had"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2025.492,"endTime":2026.812,"body":"a vehicle with batteries."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2027.822,"endTime":2028.182,"body":"No."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2028.482,"endTime":2032.112,"body":"they were devastating because,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2028.482,"endTime":2032.112,"body":"cars are very flammable."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2032.112,"endTime":2035.952,"body":"They contain hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2032.112,"endTime":2035.952,"body":"kilograms of plastics."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2036.209,"endTime":2040.589,"body":"and they're in a compartment"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2036.209,"endTime":2040.589,"body":"that essentially is designed"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2040.589,"endTime":2044.279,"body":"to be quite well ventilated"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2040.589,"endTime":2044.279,"body":"because you need to remove"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2044.279,"endTime":2045.629,"body":"the fumes from the vehicle."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2045.649,"endTime":2050.589,"body":"So essentially you're putting,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2045.649,"endTime":2050.589,"body":"uh, Fuel into well ventilated"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2050.589,"endTime":2052.589,"body":"space and , that's what you get."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2052.769,"endTime":2053.069,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2053.429,"endTime":2056.096,"body":"So, , so I assume from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2053.429,"endTime":2056.096,"body":"our perspective in our"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2056.096,"endTime":2059.786,"body":"infrastructure, it's so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2056.096,"endTime":2059.786,"body":"highly underestimated"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2059.816,"endTime":2061.076,"body":"the flammability of cars."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2061.526,"endTime":2066.146,"body":"And I guess from this talk"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2061.526,"endTime":2066.146,"body":"and how you described it,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2066.146,"endTime":2069.176,"body":"the testing and, uh, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2066.146,"endTime":2069.176,"body":"safety procedures in the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2069.236,"endTime":2072.656,"body":"world of large vehicles, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2069.236,"endTime":2072.656,"body":"guess, is the same for you."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2073.026,"endTime":2075.336,"body":"If, if you look"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2073.026,"endTime":2075.336,"body":"at this Liverpool car fire,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2075.336,"endTime":2078.426,"body":"you saw that the structure was"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2075.336,"endTime":2078.426,"body":"really destroyed after this."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2078.426,"endTime":2083.586,"body":"So it, it was, so it was not"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2078.426,"endTime":2083.586,"body":"made to, to survive that."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2083.616,"endTime":2086.566,"body":", and if you look at, bus"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2083.616,"endTime":2086.566,"body":"depots, at least there's"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2086.566,"endTime":2087.946,"body":"a fires we had in Germany."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2088.526,"endTime":2090.466,"body":"A structure was,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2088.526,"endTime":2090.466,"body":"destroyed as well."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2090.466,"endTime":2093.946,"body":"And with the buses, you have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2090.466,"endTime":2093.946,"body":"the additional problems that if"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2093.946,"endTime":2098.026,"body":"you try to extinguish them from"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2093.946,"endTime":2098.026,"body":"the outside, they are rain safe."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2098.056,"endTime":2100.126,"body":"Of course they are"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2098.056,"endTime":2100.126,"body":"made to be rain safe."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2100.456,"endTime":2102.486,"body":"So, you have really a problem."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2102.546,"endTime":2106.386,"body":"If you have a, bus Depot,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2102.546,"endTime":2106.386,"body":"which is really packed and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2106.386,"endTime":2107.886,"body":"they normally do this because."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2108.891,"endTime":2111.051,"body":"They don't have that much"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2108.891,"endTime":2111.051,"body":"space and they want you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2111.051,"endTime":2112.581,"body":"to make use of this space."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2112.941,"endTime":2115.851,"body":"So their buses are very"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2112.941,"endTime":2115.851,"body":"close to each other."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2116.571,"endTime":2120.481,"body":"And then, if you have one fully"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2116.571,"endTime":2120.481,"body":"developed fire in one bus,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2121.171,"endTime":2124.351,"body":"normally it's very difficult"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2121.171,"endTime":2124.351,"body":"to save the, others because"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2124.351,"endTime":2128.641,"body":"you already have so many,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2124.351,"endTime":2128.641,"body":"um, hot gases and smoke."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2128.891,"endTime":2133.067,"body":", you release with this one bus on"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2128.891,"endTime":2133.067,"body":"fire, and if you have a ceiling"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2133.187,"endTime":2137.897,"body":"then you distribute a whole hot"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2133.187,"endTime":2137.897,"body":"gas layer, over all your buses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2137.997,"endTime":2138.267,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2138.297,"endTime":2140.677,"body":"let's make a full circle"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2138.297,"endTime":2140.677,"body":"at the startyou've said"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2140.697,"endTime":2144.687,"body":"that, uh, you've observed it"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2140.697,"endTime":2144.687,"body":"being quite different from"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2144.687,"endTime":2148.847,"body":"the other transportation,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2144.687,"endTime":2148.847,"body":", industries like trains"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2149.327,"endTime":2152.717,"body":"and I assume aircraft as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2149.327,"endTime":2152.717,"body":"well and Marine as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2153.197,"endTime":2157.757,"body":", Do you think, eh, that, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2153.197,"endTime":2157.757,"body":"example, in terms of trains,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2157.837,"endTime":2161.647,"body":", the issue is solved and the same"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2157.837,"endTime":2161.647,"body":"methods would work in buses and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2161.647,"endTime":2163.297,"body":"potentially in other industries."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2163.747,"endTime":2165.367,"body":"And if yes,  how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2163.747,"endTime":2165.367,"body":"would you rank them?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2165.577,"endTime":2168.007,"body":"What would it be the best"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2165.577,"endTime":2168.007,"body":"to implement the quickest,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2168.007,"endTime":2169.237,"body":"to, to get the best return?"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2169.674,"endTime":2171.804,"body":"um, I think"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2169.674,"endTime":2171.804,"body":"from my perspective, the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2171.804,"endTime":2175.244,"body":"easiest would be to say,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2171.804,"endTime":2175.244,"body":"we use as a train materials"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2175.244,"endTime":2177.944,"body":"we already have from some"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2175.244,"endTime":2177.944,"body":"marketing buses as well."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2178.154,"endTime":2180.014,"body":"That would be a very easy and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2180.014,"endTime":2180.134,"body":"very."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2180.254,"endTime":2182.174,"body":"like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2180.254,"endTime":2182.174,"body":"black, like your plastic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2182.174,"endTime":2185.474,"body":"seats, cautions linings, like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2182.174,"endTime":2185.474,"body":"these cusions of materials?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2185.474,"endTime":2185.774,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2185.834,"endTime":2186.224,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2186.274,"endTime":2189.974,"body":"So if, if you would say you"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2186.274,"endTime":2189.974,"body":"need the same requirements"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2189.974,"endTime":2192.824,"body":"as in trains, I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2189.974,"endTime":2192.824,"body":"trains and the buses have,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2192.924,"endTime":2194.964,"body":", different levels, they address."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2195.294,"endTime":2197.927,"body":"If you have a train,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2195.294,"endTime":2197.927,"body":"which is only on yeah."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2197.927,"endTime":2199.137,"body":"Like a city train."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2199.944,"endTime":2201.204,"body":"Less restrictions."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2201.204,"endTime":2204.684,"body":"And if you have a train, which"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2201.204,"endTime":2204.684,"body":"is going long distance and using"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2204.684,"endTime":2209.904,"body":"tunnels, and you could apply the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2204.684,"endTime":2209.904,"body":"same approach on buses as well,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2210.084,"endTime":2214.674,"body":"I do think that you don't have"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2210.084,"endTime":2214.674,"body":"to be as strict with a city bus"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2215.214,"endTime":2219.104,"body":"as with a, , bus, which is, uh,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2215.214,"endTime":2219.104,"body":"doing long distance, whereas"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2219.104,"endTime":2222.474,"body":"the people are sleeping and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2219.104,"endTime":2222.474,"body":"which is much more comfortable."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2222.984,"endTime":2226.224,"body":"So you have this differences"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2222.984,"endTime":2226.224,"body":"in buses, in training."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2227.349,"endTime":2232.082,"body":"Would be relatively easy to"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2227.349,"endTime":2232.082,"body":"find something which satisfies"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2232.082,"endTime":2235.652,"body":"the needs of different"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2232.082,"endTime":2235.652,"body":"buses in the same way as it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2235.652,"endTime":2239.912,"body":"is done with trains but it"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2235.652,"endTime":2239.912,"body":"would of course, make the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2239.912,"endTime":2241.862,"body":"materials more expensive"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2242.647,"endTime":2243.667,"body":"I'm surprised because I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2243.667,"endTime":2246.087,"body":"thought that you would say"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2243.667,"endTime":2246.087,"body":"it's a to implement the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2246.087,"endTime":2248.941,"body":"same, , testing methods"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2246.087,"endTime":2248.941,"body":"or, , transport some let's say"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2248.941,"endTime":2250.441,"body":"approaches from the industry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2250.441,"endTime":2252.631,"body":"But, what you've said"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2250.441,"endTime":2252.631,"body":"is actually so much, so"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2252.631,"endTime":2254.611,"body":"much smarter , the good"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2252.631,"endTime":2254.611,"body":"materials already exist."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2254.611,"endTime":2258.061,"body":"It's like, it's not that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2254.611,"endTime":2258.061,"body":"we stand at the end of the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2258.551,"endTime":2261.491,"body":"The road and we have to invent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2258.551,"endTime":2261.491,"body":"a new material or we fail."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2262.001,"endTime":2263.621,"body":"It's just, they exist."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2263.961,"endTime":2267.704,"body":"It seems the issues with the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2263.961,"endTime":2267.704,"body":"ranking system and, how we let"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2267.734,"endTime":2270.987,"body":"some materials be used in a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2267.734,"endTime":2270.987,"body":"certain way and, how some other"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2270.987,"endTime":2272.727,"body":"materials are not promoted."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2272.757,"endTime":2276.117,"body":"And when it comes down"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2272.757,"endTime":2276.117,"body":"to economic incentive,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2276.117,"endTime":2276.717,"body":"it's always the."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2277.237,"endTime":2280.637,"body":"The cheaper one, uh,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2277.237,"endTime":2280.637,"body":"will outpaced, the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2280.637,"endTime":2281.717,"body":"more expensive one."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2281.867,"endTime":2285.107,"body":"That's quite sad that it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2281.867,"endTime":2285.107,"body":"in the end, it, it comes"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2285.107,"endTime":2289.457,"body":"down to, to, to the money"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2285.107,"endTime":2289.457,"body":"because it's society that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2289.457,"endTime":2290.597,"body":"pays for mass transport."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2290.597,"endTime":2293.976,"body":"And I guess it wouldn't be such"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2290.597,"endTime":2293.976,"body":"a big deal to transfer that."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2294.266,"endTime":2295.286,"body":"No,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2294.266,"endTime":2295.286,"body":"I don't think so."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2295.286,"endTime":2298.776,"body":"I mean, if you, if you compare"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2295.286,"endTime":2298.776,"body":"a, , example from a different"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2298.896,"endTime":2303.906,"body":"area, if you see mattresses in"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2298.896,"endTime":2303.906,"body":"the UK and mattresses saving"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2303.906,"endTime":2306.996,"body":"in Germany, but I think most"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2303.906,"endTime":2306.996,"body":"of them in most European"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2306.996,"endTime":2307.876,"body":"countries, it's the same."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2308.556,"endTime":2312.049,"body":"We don't have in Germany, any,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2308.556,"endTime":2312.049,"body":"requirements for mattresses"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2312.079,"endTime":2316.549,"body":"in the UK is, are requirements"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2312.079,"endTime":2316.549,"body":"are relatively high."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2316.869,"endTime":2319.919,"body":"And, if you go to, uh,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2316.869,"endTime":2319.919,"body":"this speak Swedish,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2320.822,"endTime":2324.562,"body":"uh, shop how's you there was a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2320.822,"endTime":2324.562,"body":"price it's really comparable."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2324.636,"endTime":2328.849,"body":"It's not that the UK mattress"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2324.636,"endTime":2328.849,"body":"is so much more expensive than"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2328.849,"endTime":2331.849,"body":"if you buy this in Germany or"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2328.849,"endTime":2331.849,"body":"another European countries."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2332.581,"endTime":2336.451,"body":"I guess if you would have a new"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2332.581,"endTime":2336.451,"body":"regulation, and it is mandatory"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2336.451,"endTime":2340.071,"body":"for the buses and, I don't"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2336.451,"endTime":2340.071,"body":"think the price would increase"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2340.071,"endTime":2344.181,"body":"as much as you now estimate if"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2340.071,"endTime":2344.181,"body":"you only look at the difference"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2344.181,"endTime":2345.531,"body":"between trains and buses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2345.581,"endTime":2347.681,"body":"So in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2345.581,"endTime":2347.681,"body":"the end, it's all about,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2347.794,"endTime":2350.281,"body":"it could be all about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2347.794,"endTime":2350.281,"body":"smart legislation and just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2350.281,"endTime":2351.781,"body":"promoting the, the good rules."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2352.111,"endTime":2355.411,"body":"I have last question related"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2352.111,"endTime":2355.411,"body":", to the best of your knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2355.477,"endTime":2358.657,"body":"these regulations related"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2355.477,"endTime":2358.657,"body":"the flammability and the use"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2358.657,"endTime":2361.777,"body":"of materials, are they also"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2358.657,"endTime":2361.777,"body":"applied in like, , passenger"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2361.777,"endTime":2364.927,"body":"cars or does a world that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2361.777,"endTime":2364.927,"body":"completely different or."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2365.147,"endTime":2366.917,"body":"No, that's,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2365.147,"endTime":2366.917,"body":"that's very harmonized."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2367.187,"endTime":2370.667,"body":"The whole automotive sectors"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2367.187,"endTime":2370.667,"body":"is that this is good."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2370.667,"endTime":2373.967,"body":"It's very harmonized, nearly"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2370.667,"endTime":2373.967,"body":"worldwide, very harmonized, but."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2374.017,"endTime":2375.847,"body":"Just with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2374.017,"endTime":2375.847,"body":"w just with the wrong standards."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2376.467,"endTime":2377.367,"body":"But that's a pity."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2377.367,"endTime":2378.537,"body":"That's a requirement."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2380.277,"endTime":2381.027,"body":"Not so high."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2381.057,"endTime":2381.387,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2381.496,"endTime":2383.799,"body":"So,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2381.496,"endTime":2383.799,"body":"so this, like issues with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2383.799,"endTime":2387.159,"body":"flammability, plastics,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2383.799,"endTime":2387.159,"body":"toxicity in everything, it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2387.159,"endTime":2391.079,"body":"the same, like pathway us as"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2387.159,"endTime":2391.079,"body":"the large vehicle and it would,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2391.109,"endTime":2393.149,"body":"it just a different scale,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2391.109,"endTime":2393.149,"body":"but the methods would be the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2393.374,"endTime":2393.674,"body":"yep."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2394.334,"endTime":2394.594,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2394.814,"endTime":2396.674,"body":"You have more or less"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2394.814,"endTime":2396.674,"body":"the same tests with"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2396.674,"endTime":2398.354,"body":"the user cars as well."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2398.804,"endTime":2399.434,"body":"I mean, normally."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2400.224,"endTime":2401.334,"body":"Less passengers."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2401.754,"endTime":2404.634,"body":"So your problem might be"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2401.754,"endTime":2404.634,"body":"smaller, but even with the"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2404.634,"endTime":2409.614,"body":"cars, you see that after a,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2404.634,"endTime":2409.614,"body":"you really have a big danger"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2409.674,"endTime":2412.514,"body":"for the passenger to die"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2409.674,"endTime":2412.514,"body":"in this in this accident."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2413.274,"endTime":2416.434,"body":"I think it is an issue with"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2413.274,"endTime":2416.434,"body":"the cause as well, only on"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2416.434,"endTime":2419.724,"body":"the, on a, as a scale because"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2416.434,"endTime":2419.724,"body":"you don't have this single."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2419.777,"endTime":2421.307,"body":"Uh, severe incidents."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2421.307,"endTime":2424.157,"body":"You have more, a lot"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2421.307,"endTime":2424.157,"body":"of smaller incidents."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2424.157,"endTime":2427.417,"body":"And so it's not so visible,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2424.157,"endTime":2427.417,"body":"but  if you look at the news,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2427.417,"endTime":2431.404,"body":"you see very often they said"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2427.417,"endTime":2431.404,"body":"that a car had an accident, a"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2431.404,"endTime":2436.384,"body":"collision, and then a fire, and"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2431.404,"endTime":2436.384,"body":"then it was impossible to save."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2436.434,"endTime":2439.624,"body":"I I was"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2436.434,"endTime":2439.624,"body":"quite aware of the issues with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2439.624,"endTime":2442.834,"body":"plastics and everything and how"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2439.624,"endTime":2442.834,"body":"the vehicles changed because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2442.834,"endTime":2445.919,"body":"there was recently a very"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2442.834,"endTime":2445.919,"body":"good report by NFPA  on the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2446.044,"endTime":2447.784,"body":"evolution of, of vehicle fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2447.784,"endTime":2450.694,"body":"And I know there's a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2447.784,"endTime":2450.694,"body":"follow-up to that one, with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2450.724,"endTime":2453.694,"body":"full-scale, uh, electric"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2450.724,"endTime":2453.694,"body":"vehicles, experiments."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2453.744,"endTime":2456.284,"body":"From my perspective, that's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2453.744,"endTime":2456.284,"body":"exactly what we need to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2456.284,"endTime":2458.994,"body":"build better infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2456.284,"endTime":2458.994,"body":"this holistic testing."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2459.144,"endTime":2462.254,"body":"And from your side, , it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2459.144,"endTime":2462.254,"body":"also seems optimistic that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2462.254,"endTime":2465.374,"body":"if you only could change the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2462.254,"endTime":2465.374,"body":"testing regime and standards"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2465.374,"endTime":2467.414,"body":"and promote this better methods."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2467.444,"endTime":2467.504,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2468.194,"endTime":2472.454,"body":"I hope you eventually will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2468.194,"endTime":2472.454,"body":"unleash on the industry."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2472.754,"endTime":2475.554,"body":"And then if Germans do that,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2472.754,"endTime":2475.554,"body":"that's like half of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2475.554,"endTime":2476.694,"body":"cars in the world already."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2476.694,"endTime":2481.224,"body":"So we can, we will be, we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2476.694,"endTime":2481.224,"body":"will be much, much safer,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2481.766,"endTime":2485.806,"body":"thank you very much for this,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2481.766,"endTime":2485.806,"body":", interesting talk with some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2485.806,"endTime":2490.036,"body":"really, uh, sad conclusions"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2485.806,"endTime":2490.036,"body":"that the solution may be simple"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2490.086,"endTime":2493.476,"body":"it just costs a, uh, maybe not"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2490.086,"endTime":2493.476,"body":"even too much, it's just the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2493.476,"endTime":2494.646,"body":"customer doesn't want to pay."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2494.766,"endTime":2495.216,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2495.441,"endTime":2497.361,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2495.441,"endTime":2497.361,"body":"think it's is a willingness"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2497.361,"endTime":2498.291,"body":"is not, not there."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2498.291,"endTime":2500.031,"body":"It's a moment to, to change."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2500.031,"endTime":2501.411,"body":"So I dunno."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2502.041,"endTime":2505.791,"body":"Don't hope said there is"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2502.041,"endTime":2505.791,"body":"another big fire, which changes,"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2505.821,"endTime":2509.821,"body":"but yeah, I still hope we"},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2505.821,"endTime":2509.821,"body":"can have some change result."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2510.871,"endTime":2512.011,"body":"And that was a major fire."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2512.547,"endTime":2514.687,"body":"Maybe,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2512.547,"endTime":2514.687,"body":", Episodes like this one will"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2514.767,"endTime":2516.387,"body":"help, uh, promote the movement."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2516.417,"endTime":2518.757,"body":", towards was the better"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2516.417,"endTime":2518.757,"body":"that's that actually is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2518.757,"endTime":2519.837,"body":"the point of doing this."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2519.952,"endTime":2520.822,"body":"Yeah, very good."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2520.852,"endTime":2521.392,"body":"Very good."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2521.452,"endTime":2523.012,"body":"I will really appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2523.587,"endTime":2525.027,"body":"I, I hope so."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2525.237,"endTime":2525.937,"body":"Thank you so much."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2525.937,"endTime":2527.797,"body":"Anja,  for your time,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2525.937,"endTime":2527.797,"body":", talking about this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2527.797,"endTime":2530.617,"body":"important issue and yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2530.647,"endTime":2531.577,"body":"All the best."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2531.577,"endTime":2533.197,"body":"If you change the industry,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2531.577,"endTime":2533.197,"body":"please let me know."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2533.437,"endTime":2536.497,"body":"I would love to make a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2533.437,"endTime":2536.497,"body":"very optimistic follow-up"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2536.497,"endTime":2537.397,"body":"episode to this one."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2538.657,"endTime":2541.267,"body":"."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2538.657,"endTime":2541.267,"body":"Anja Hoffman: Yeah, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2541.267,"endTime":2542.437,"body":"the building sector as well."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2542.437,"endTime":2545.047,"body":"So maybe that is, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2542.437,"endTime":2545.047,"body":"I don't know, and with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2545.047,"endTime":2548.628,"body":"facade, so, but that is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2545.047,"endTime":2548.628,"body":"not a funny topic either."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2548.718,"endTime":2549.818,"body":"thank"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2548.718,"endTime":2549.818,"body":"you so much once again."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2549.868,"endTime":2550.808,"body":"And see you around."},{"speaker":"Anja Hoffman","startTime":2551.118,"endTime":2552.148,"body":"yeah, thank you."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2553.106,"endTime":2554.296,"body":"So after this talk, I"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2554.306,"endTime":2555.566,"body":"feel slightly depressed."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2555.986,"endTime":2557.876,"body":"We have identify the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2555.986,"endTime":2557.876,"body":"quite the problematic"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2557.906,"endTime":2559.016,"body":"field of engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2559.496,"endTime":2563.424,"body":"We've identified quite a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2559.496,"endTime":2563.424,"body":"significant problem for the, for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2563.424,"endTime":2567.484,"body":"the environment, for the people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2563.424,"endTime":2567.484,"body":"with, flammability of materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2567.484,"endTime":2569.094,"body":"used in modern vehicles."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2569.154,"endTime":2569.724,"body":"Buses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2570.337,"endTime":2574.227,"body":"We have identified quite a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2570.337,"endTime":2574.227,"body":"problematic area, where the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2574.387,"endTime":2577.694,"body":"flammability standards or"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2574.387,"endTime":2577.694,"body":"reaction to fire standards"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2578.144,"endTime":2580.994,"body":"may not be doing the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2578.144,"endTime":2580.994,"body":"best job filtering good"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2580.994,"endTime":2582.524,"body":"solutions from bad solutions."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2583.244,"endTime":2583.874,"body":"And then."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2584.088,"endTime":2586.175,"body":"On the other hand,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2584.088,"endTime":2586.175,"body":"just next doors."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2586.235,"endTime":2592.115,"body":"There's a very similar industry"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2586.235,"endTime":2592.115,"body":"in which similar issues have"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2592.115,"endTime":2594.155,"body":"been solved for years and years."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2594.725,"endTime":2595.295,"body":"And."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2596.0,"endTime":2599.87,"body":"They are so, so similar to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2596.0,"endTime":2599.87,"body":"each other, but yet there"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2599.87,"endTime":2602.99,"body":"is no transport of knowledge"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2599.87,"endTime":2602.99,"body":"from one to another."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2603.386,"endTime":2607.016,"body":"Why I don't really get,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2603.386,"endTime":2607.016,"body":"why cannot we have the same"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2607.016,"endTime":2609.866,"body":"materials that we have as we"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2607.016,"endTime":2609.866,"body":"have in trains in our buses."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2610.346,"endTime":2612.866,"body":"I mean, if it's identified"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2610.346,"endTime":2612.866,"body":"that it is a problem,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2612.896,"endTime":2613.766,"body":"if it's identified."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2614.316,"endTime":2618.756,"body":"People literally die in"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2614.316,"endTime":2618.756,"body":"fires because these materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2619.356,"endTime":2620.406,"body":"are not good enough."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2620.496,"endTime":2623.406,"body":"And from the research Anja"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2620.496,"endTime":2623.406,"body":"was quoting and I'll link some"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2623.406,"endTime":2625.236,"body":"of that in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2625.716,"endTime":2632.226,"body":"It is obvious that materials are"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2625.716,"endTime":2632.226,"body":"a significant part of the issue."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2632.496,"endTime":2635.116,"body":"So if it is so obvious,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2632.496,"endTime":2635.116,"body":"why cannot we just"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2635.146,"endTime":2636.076,"body":"change the materials?"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2636.526,"endTime":2640.996,"body":"There is this unknown force"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2636.526,"endTime":2640.996,"body":"that is holding us back and,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2641.083,"endTime":2645.955,"body":"I'm depressed because I see"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2641.083,"endTime":2645.955,"body":"this, invisible force or glass"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2645.955,"endTime":2648.085,"body":"ceilings everywhere in fires."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2649.055,"endTime":2654.528,"body":"Everywhere where we have a bunch"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2649.055,"endTime":2654.528,"body":"of legal testing frameworks"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2654.558,"endTime":2659.478,"body":"that are so coupled with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2654.558,"endTime":2659.478,"body":"each other in ways that it's"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2659.478,"endTime":2663.318,"body":"impossible to decouple them"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2659.478,"endTime":2663.318,"body":"anymore in, in ways that prevent"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2663.318,"endTime":2666.438,"body":"us from really engineering the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2663.318,"endTime":2666.438,"body":"correct solutions,  because"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2666.438,"endTime":2669.198,"body":"they would suddenly not meet"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2666.438,"endTime":2669.198,"body":"the requirements of the law."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2669.918,"endTime":2670.338,"body":"Why."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2670.416,"endTime":2675.006,"body":"Are we forced  to stand with"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2670.416,"endTime":2675.006,"body":"these regulations instead of"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2675.006,"endTime":2680.096,"body":"choosing a pathway that is known"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2675.006,"endTime":2680.096,"body":"and is known to be efficient,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2680.186,"endTime":2684.716,"body":"working and providing safety"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2680.186,"endTime":2684.716,"body":"to the users, it's horrible."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2685.166,"endTime":2688.919,"body":"And I really appreciate that"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2685.166,"endTime":2688.919,"body":"people like Anja exist, who"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2688.919,"endTime":2693.939,"body":"researched that, who show"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2688.919,"endTime":2693.939,"body":"this, , disturbance on paper."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2694.479,"endTime":2695.199,"body":"Proofs."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2695.799,"endTime":2699.669,"body":"It's just sad that it is"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2695.799,"endTime":2699.669,"body":"so hard to reach the people"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2699.879,"endTime":2702.009,"body":"in charge with this message"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2702.549,"endTime":2705.579,"body":"And I would love to make a"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2702.549,"endTime":2705.579,"body":"call to action to all of you,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2705.579,"endTime":2707.949,"body":"so you can reach out to your"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2705.579,"endTime":2707.949,"body":"authorities or something, but"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2708.549,"endTime":2710.889,"body":"I understand it is unrealistic."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2711.249,"endTime":2714.819,"body":"So yeah, maybe the best"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2711.249,"endTime":2714.819,"body":"thing is just to share the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2714.819,"endTime":2719.199,"body":"knowledge we have, seek for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2714.819,"endTime":2719.199,"body":"the best solutions and promote"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2719.199,"endTime":2720.359,"body":"them , wherever we can."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2721.059,"endTime":2726.509,"body":"And just used science based"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2721.059,"endTime":2726.509,"body":"evidence as the foundation"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2726.509,"endTime":2727.349,"body":"of our engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2727.529,"endTime":2730.926,"body":"And , let's just try to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2727.529,"endTime":2730.926,"body":"create a fire safe world,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2730.926,"endTime":2732.366,"body":"one project at a time."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2732.816,"endTime":2736.086,"body":"And when you have a chance"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2732.816,"endTime":2736.086,"body":"to talk with the authorities,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2736.116,"endTime":2739.206,"body":"if you see an issue like"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2736.116,"endTime":2739.206,"body":"in here with the materials"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2739.206,"endTime":2743.059,"body":"used in buses,take action,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2739.206,"endTime":2743.059,"body":"educate, and maybe this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2743.059,"endTime":2746.109,"body":"will help solving one of."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2746.784,"endTime":2750.663,"body":"Issues of the world Which for"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2746.784,"endTime":2750.663,"body":"some reason are still unsolved,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2750.693,"endTime":2753.633,"body":"even though the solutions exist,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2750.693,"endTime":2753.633,"body":"it's actually mind blowing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2753.633,"endTime":2755.523,"body":"that the solutions are there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2755.583,"endTime":2756.423,"body":"The materials are there."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2756.483,"endTime":2759.213,"body":"It's just not being used"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2756.483,"endTime":2759.213,"body":"because the regulations"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2759.213,"endTime":2759.843,"body":"don't promote them."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2760.773,"endTime":2761.133,"body":"Anyway."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2761.329,"endTime":2763.639,"body":"it was interesting to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2761.329,"endTime":2763.639,"body":"talk with Anja about that."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2764.119,"endTime":2766.939,"body":"I've learned a lot about"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2764.119,"endTime":2766.939,"body":"reaction to fire a learned a lot"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2766.939,"endTime":2772.609,"body":"about how, , Test methods the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2766.939,"endTime":2772.609,"body":"goal within the regulation can"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2772.639,"endTime":2775.959,"body":"really change the holistic image"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2772.639,"endTime":2775.959,"body":"of the whole sector of the"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2775.959,"endTime":2777.549,"body":"whole field fire engineering."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2778.179,"endTime":2780.519,"body":"And I'm very glad to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2778.179,"endTime":2780.519,"body":"have received this"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2780.519,"endTime":2781.819,"body":"lesson from, from Anja."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2782.739,"endTime":2786.899,"body":"And yeah, in the next episode,"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2782.739,"endTime":2786.899,"body":"there's more lessons to come."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2787.109,"endTime":2791.043,"body":"I have a very exciting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2787.109,"endTime":2791.043,"body":"thing to share with you"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2791.043,"endTime":2793.343,"body":"that recently happened to"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2791.043,"endTime":2793.343,"body":"me in one of my friends."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2793.823,"endTime":2797.423,"body":"And we were going to spend"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2793.823,"endTime":2797.423,"body":"a whole episode discussing"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.423,"endTime":2800.183,"body":"that and what interesting"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2797.423,"endTime":2800.183,"body":"pathways that opens."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2800.573,"endTime":2803.263,"body":"So I hope you join"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2800.573,"endTime":2803.263,"body":"us, , the next Wednesday"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2803.653,"endTime":2805.333,"body":"we'll be here and yeah."},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2805.363,"endTime":2807.103,"body":"Thank you for listening"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2805.363,"endTime":2807.103,"body":"to Fire Science Show and"},{"speaker":"Wojciech Wegrzynski","startTime":2807.163,"endTime":2808.093,"body":"see you next Wednesday."}]}