Water Foresight Podcast
Examining the future of water through the lens of strategic foresight--anticipating, framing, and shaping your preferred future.
Water Foresight Podcast
Anticipating the Future of Water Reuse
Turn yesterday’s wastewater into tomorrow’s supply—safely, affordably, and at scale. That’s the promise of water reuse, and we go deep with Bruno Pigott, Executive Director of the WateReuse Association and former Acting Assistant Administrator for EPA’s Office of Water, to explore how it’s reshaping utilities, industry, and policy across the United States.
We start by clarifying what water reuse is and why it matters now: tightening supplies in arid regions, rising industrial demand from data centers and semiconductor plants, and nutrient challenges that make traditional discharge costly. Bruno lays out how indirect and direct potable reuse move beyond conventional treatment, using advanced membranes, reverse osmosis, and UV to deliver water that meets rigorous quality targets. Real-world examples from San Diego, Los Angeles, and Monterey show how cities are securing resilient, local supplies while keeping rivers and aquifers healthier.
Costs and policy are pivotal. We trace the shift from “exotic” to mainstream technology, explain when reuse already beats alternatives, and detail the funding stack that makes projects real—State Revolving Funds, WIFIA, and proposed 30% federal tax credits for industrial reuse that could accelerate private and public adoption. We also confront what can stall progress: unclear state permitting, fragmented oversight between drinking water and wastewater rules, and the ever-present need to build and maintain public trust. Bruno shares how model regulations, operator training, and proactive community education turn skepticism into confidence and ensure safety stays front and center.
Looking ahead, we map a One Water future where reuse helps reconnect systems that policy once split apart. Big-city utilities may move fastest, but with technical assistance and industry partnerships, small communities can benefit too. If you care about water resilience, sustainable industry growth, and practical adaptation, this conversation offers a clear playbook for action. If it resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a review to help others find these insights.
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This is the Water Foresight Podcast powered by the Aquilars Group, where we anticipate, frame, and shape the future of water through strategic foresight. Today's guest is Bruno Piggott, who is the Executive Director of the Water Reuse Association and former Acting Assistant Administrator for the Office of Water with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. Bruno, welcome to the Water Foresight Podcast. It is a privilege to have you with us today. Thank you, Dr. Klein, and it's a joy to be here. Well, thank you, Bruno. Call me Matt, and I just want to start off with an admission that the podcast has not done a very good job of respecting water reuse. We've talked a lot about drinking water. We've talked a lot about wastewater. We haven't talked a whole lot about water reuse. And I'm very pleased to have you on the podcast today to help us think through the future of water reuse. And I know you're up for the task.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I am really thankful that you asked me to participate in this. It's a great way to get the message out to folks who are interested but don't know a lot about it. And uh I'm it's a joy. So thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we have a lot to cover today, but let's level set. And most people understand drinking water, and a lot of people understand wastewater. And a lot of people may not understand what is water reuse and how's it different from drinking water and wastewater.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, well, this is a really good question, and it's a great place to start. So water reuse is just what we do when we take water that's already been used and we treat it again for some purpose, some purpose that benefits all of us. That, you know, traditional drinking water systems take surface water or groundwater and they provide it to their residents after treating it to make sure it meets stringent and safe EPA uh requirements that are laid out in the Safe Drinking Water Act. And wastewater systems take the water that's been used in homes and businesses, and they treat it before they discharge it back into rivers or the oceans. Now, reuse systems are kind of a bridge between those two separate processes. Um reuse systems take that used water that you usually go through a wastewater treatment plant, treat it even more than a wastewater treatment plant, and use it again instead of just throwing it back into a river, creek, or stream. And you know, uh Matt, one of the things people like to say is that there's only a limited amount of water. That water has already been used since the dinosaurs were around. Um, and it has all been used and cleaned and reused time after time. So, in some respects, water reuse is just one of those things that we've been doing all our lives but didn't think about it. This kind of water reuse that we are a part of at the Water Reuse Association is an intentional process that treats the water that's already already been treated to use for some beneficial purpose. And there are lots of different purposes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Very good. I like that overview. I'm often reminded, I forget who told me this, but one town's uh wastewater treatment plant outfall is just upstream from the next town's uh surface water intake. That's right. And so, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Both of us worked in Indiana, Matt. And when I think about that, I think of the Ohio River. There are plenty of places along the Ohio River where people discharge uh from wastewater treatment plants, whether they're industrial plants or municipal plants. And then not far away, there are drinking water intakes, like in Evansville, Indiana. So across the nation, that's that's what we already do.
SPEAKER_00:So, what my my question is why water reuse? In other words, what would cause a municipality or some other you know, water, wastewater utility to consider water reuse?
SPEAKER_01:Well, there are several reasons, and and they vary. Um, and they depend on both the geographic location and and the purpose um that the water will be used for. You know, in the in the beginning of the conscious and intentional water reuse process, I I would say water stress was the driver. That means, you know, uh essentially a lack of water. And that's why what you saw about water reuse started in the West and the Southwest. Across the nation and all over the country, there are more than 30 million people that live in regions with high water supply stress. We've all read about the Colorado River, for example, and how the supply of water from the Colorado River is really important for agricultural purposes, it's important for municipal water supplies, it's important for industry. And so, all along the way from the headwaters of the Colorado River, a little bit is taken out all along the way. And by the time it gets around to California, there's barely any left. So, water stress has been one of those reasons that people have said, well, how are we going to tackle this issue? We don't have as much water. If we're in Las Vegas, Nevada, for example, we're draining Lake Mead. How are we going to ensure that we have a stable supply of water in the future? And one way they do that is conserving water. And part of that conservation of water is reusing the water that has already been used once. So that that's that I would say that was one of the first triggers for water reuse. But now, man, we're seeing um industry come in. And, you know, we've seen it actually in the arid Midwest and in the Arid West as well. Las Vegas, there were lots of companies that cleaned towels from hotels and stuff. They focused on conservation efforts to ensure that they didn't use up too much water. But now there are data centers, microchip manufacturers, a whole bunch of other technology industries that use two things. One is a lot of electricity, but the other thing that people talk less about is water. And so water has become one of those critical components for data centers. And the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory did a study some time ago, said that data center water use is going to double by 2028, and that many of those facilities are going to be located in the arid west. But they're not all going to be located there. In fact, they're moving across the country. They're in Ohio, they're in Indiana, they're in Wisconsin. To me, what's striking about that is I just went to a conference on the shores of Lake Superior, Matt, where, yeah, where um the concern was of the Great Lakes Commission. You think the one place they wouldn't have to worry about water was the Great Lakes. But there they recognized that these new industrial demands from high-tech industries may stress their water supplies. And so it was a big part of the agenda while we're sitting there looking over Lake Superior. Crazy, right? Wow. The other other uh, some of the other drivers out there are um regulations, believe it or not. Yeah, and one of the areas that I've seen regulations be um a driver is um water quality regulations on the wastewater side of the business. In certain places, wastewater regulations are becoming so tight that industry and municipalities are thinking, boy, if we didn't have to discharge this stuff, we could avoid the costs involved with and reduce the costs associated with treating our wastewater. And so in places like Florida, where water quality standards are very high because of the of the surrounding areas, um, they've put in place the purple pipe system we all know about that uses uh water again for irrigation purposes or other purposes. And then there's this issue that's been cropping up for as long as you and I have been working, and that's uh nutrient issues. Nutrients um bedevil areas like Ohio, like uh the Mississippi River, where the discharge from the Mississippi River into the Gulf of Mexico has left a huge hypoxic zone. And so states all around um the Mississippi River have been working to reduce the loadings of phosphorus and nitrogen to those with that river. Well, water reuse can help with that. So I see that as another another driver as well. Nutrients, which it, you know, they're not really heavily regulated. Mostly that there are incentivization programs by the federal government to help reduce nutrient loadings from agricultural activities. But this is another way to help, I think.
SPEAKER_00:That's interesting. I I appreciate that discussion of the different drivers. One one negative driver, I think I've raised this before on earlier podcasts, and I'm willing to be wrong, but have you encountered cases, arguments in the West where cities, utilities are trying to use the purple pipe system, and a downstream city or town says, wait, you can't you can't just take that wastewater and reuse it. It's our water. You need to treat it and release it into the river for us. And that purple pipe system is a violation of our water rights. Am I in the ballpark on that? I don't want to, I don't want to ask you a question that may be unfamiliar.
SPEAKER_01:I have seen the opposite of that, actually. I was just in Monterey, California. Okay. And there um Monterey um was using uh the uh a water source, uh a river, to provide drinking water to its people. And what happened was um it was really impinging the supply of downstream of water because they were taking so much out of this stream that they were worried that it was going to uh end the supply of water. So Monterey's heavily invested, they've already put in place water reuse systems to put in place indirect potable reuse. What does that mean? Well, indirect potable reuse is when you take water that was wastewater, you treat it, you super treat it, and then you inject it into the ground and store it, and then bring it back out of the ground to provide to your citizens. And because of that, what's happened is the supply of water from the surface water has not been reduced dramatically. And Monterey is so invested in this process, they realize it has such a big impact on the rivers, creeks, and streams that they are doubling down on it. And they've expanded their facility and will be providing 100% of their uh drinking water to residents that is uh water reuse water. So it actually, yeah, it's actually having the opposite effect that it's actually helping keep the water in rivers, creeks, and streams.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe the example I was thinking about was not the indirect potable reuse, but the direct potable reuse.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's that's true. But in the places where I do know of direct potable reuse, the issue isn't so much the downstream, emptying it down downstream. I think of San Diego. And I was in San Diego recently, they've got a this incredible facility that um that that uh takes their waste water and treats it and then super treats it using a bunch of different technologies that you and I would have thought years ago was prohibitively expensive and exceedingly rare. And now um they're using all of it and they're going to direct potable reuse. And LA's doing the same thing. It's crazy, but a hundred percent of residents will get all their water uh from direct potable reuse in Los Angeles in the next, I'd say, five years.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Let's let's think about these drivers of change that you're seeing. I mean, I I I think if I summarize correctly, and you can correct me, but we have an environmental driver. We have, you know, meteorological issues where water is a 24-7 issue, where rain doesn't occur as it might in the Midwest, where, for example, you mentioned Indiana gets probably 40 inches of rain a year. If you're in Arizona or Texas, they may that may not be the case. And so you have a water supply challenge. And frankly, water reuse can help address those issues. You have some regulations that are driving uh not just utilities, but industrial concerns to consider deploying water reuse. And there are a number of other uh drivers you mentioned. Where do you see these drivers, if they continue, where do you see them taking us in the next 20 to 50 years when it comes to water reuse? Are we going to see purple pipes be as prevalent as we do uh, you know, as we see our drinking water and wastewater systems around the country? Or will it continue to be localized to the southwest, the south, and and and other areas? Um where do you see these things going?
SPEAKER_01:I um I don't know that we'll see purple pipes everywhere, uh, Matt. What uh and I think it'll depend on the region. Um, but I do see water reuse it um being employed much more widely across the country, depending on the different drivers. Well, I was just here in Washington, D.C., and went to a meeting that the DC water people had and talked about water reuse with them because they've got an enormous wastewater treatment plant. And if you look at that wastewater treatment plant and you watch the discharge from their outfall, it is remarkably clean. And it's so clean that when you look at it, it's a plume that goes into the Potomac River, and that plume is super clean, it's cleaner than the surrounding river. So this sparked an idea for them. Well, what is that idea? Well, they get their water supply from exactly one source, and that's the Potomac River. Yeah, and they need to diversify their sources of water. And so one of the things they're considering, and they're in the stages of thinking through all of this, is taking the wastewater from the wastewater treatment plant, which is on the verge of being drinkable as it is, and treating it to ensure that they have a varied supply source. It's it's almost like a homeland security measure. Right. You know, it's a little bit different. It's not because they don't have water, it's because they only have one source of water. Right. And if something happened to that one source, then they'd be in in real trouble. Redundancy is a is a good reason. Yeah, and you know, frankly, I had not thought of that, but it is very clear um that that's uh a real driver for them. And then you'll go down to Florida and it'll be purple pipes. And I was thinking about the state of Indiana, Ahmed, because the the state of Indiana's uh Chamber of Commerce did a study, I think it was in 2014, and they updated it in 2024, about sources of water. And you know, you think about Indiana, it it has reliable sources of water all over the state. Right. But there are places in Indiana that have gaps that don't have enough water. And those places are places they would like to develop um into uh high technology parks. Yeah. Okay, if you're gonna do that, you better figure out a way to ensure that you've got enough water in those places. Right. Um there was a there's a guy named Charles Fishman. He wrote a book called The Big Thirst. Yeah, Big Thirst. And one of the things that he said in The Big Thirst was that all water issues are local. And so I think all reuse issues will be local as well. The drivers will be different. The um, and therefore, what we'll see is an increased use of water reuse, but we'll see it in different forms in different places depending on the issue at hand. And I think that's that's pretty great. It's a tool in the toolbox of providing safe and clean water. It doesn't have to be drinking water either, as you mentioned. Yeah. Matt, it could be it could be just um for agricultural fields, it could be for golf courses. That's water reuse as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Do you think uh one of the drivers we didn't directly address is the cost of providing drinking water and wastewater? Seems that much like the uh the adage, you know, nothing is certain but death and taxes, it seems that nothing is even more certain than your increasing water or wastewater bill. Do you think that the cost of designing and installing and operating a water reuse system may be uh more cost effective over the next 20 years, where it becomes much like the DC water example you gave, a very easy decision uh when it comes to return on investment?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Do you see that happening?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I do see that happening. Um, and the reason I see it, some some might argue with me about that, and that's fine. But you know, uh, having worked in the industry for uh almost 30 years, we have seen things like reverse osmosis, like membrane filtration and UV disinfection move from exotic treatment technologies, exotic and I should say expensive treatment technologies, to something that is produced uh more frequently, more widely by industry. And um, as a result, costs have gone down. Is it cheap? No. Is it cheaper than the alternative? If you're in a place where your discharge standards are so strict that you have a high cost of treating and discharging that wastewater, it may be more cost effective even today. To employ water reuse as a way to avoid the high costs of the stringent standards. And so even today, depending on the place, the costs are starting to uh level out with the other costs of treatment technology. And I believe that over time, and we've both seen the industry, boy, the technologies that are employed these days are so much more advanced than they were 30 years ago. We've seen that change, and I believe the prices, just like anything else, as supply increases, will come down and become more widely favored by folks. And one of the things that we're doing at the Water Reuse Association is not just waiting for that day to come, but what we're working on is legislation that will help us uh provide, help the federal government provide tax credits for industrial water reuse solutions, for the equipment, for this other uh for the for the equipment, the infrastructure that's necessary to do it. A 30% tax credit that will help drive and bring into focus for people who are thinking right now, well, it's too expensive. With a 30% tax credit, it changes the game for a lot of industries. And so we're working in the House, we've got sponsors in the House, we've got 15 sponsors in the House of Representatives. We're working on a sponsor in the Senate to um to ensure that companion legislation is introduced there. Um, because it feels at this point like um we've got momentum. And if we can get this last step in the momentum, that tax credit, it will really incentivize the water reuse as an affordable solution for industry and communities across the country.
SPEAKER_00:That's interesting. It's it I'll give you credit for creating your own driver of change.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Bruno is the driver of change. Certainly through the political or legal lens, you discussing uh financial incentives to develop and implement water reuse technologies or solutions is is a is is can be a real game change over the next 20 years. Is it fair? And I didn't I didn't think about this or research it, but when you think about SRF and clean water, SRF and all the money that we've seen come out of DC over the past five years, has any of that been dedicated to water reuse?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Okay. So the um the state revolving fund programs, uh the projects for water reuse are are certainly eligible there. But um, and and so I, you know, the the programs are run out of the states. Um I can't uh cite exactly um the states that have used it. I know California has uh used SRF and Nevada and other places, but the other program that is a funding program that provides an incredible subsidy and an amazing uh flexibility for communities across the country is the WIFIA program or Water Infrastructure Financing Act. And that program has been used extensively for water reuse projects. And communities love it because it's relay flexible. It because it was not a part of the Clean Water Act initially, it doesn't have the same level of requirements in terms of processing loans. And so it's speedy, it's fast, and you can you can devote or or hold a large chunk of money aside to put in place for these water reuse projects. And okay, yeah, San Diego. I was in San Diego again, and uh they were using the Wiffia dollars for that, they're using it for stormwater projects and and others. And stormwater is another reason for uh for employing water reuse. You know, it's yeah, it's almost something people just take for granted. The the the stormwater goes down our drains and straight out to rivers, creeks, and streams. But if we could capture that, you really do help to offset the use of water in other ways. And and that's what San Diego is doing as well. So I think that's pretty cool. And the financing programs are available to help finance these things at incredibly low rates. The the bipartisan infrastructure law, which was passed in 2021 and uh provided a 50 billion, it's still hard for me to believe,$50 billion for water and wastewater projects, made water reuse an eligible project. And here's the kicker: 49% of those dollars had to be made to communities that were um, you know, not uh wealthy communities that that really needed help with those dollars. And so you could get low interest or no interest loans and grants through that program as well. And those dollars are going out the door.
SPEAKER_00:Just seemed to me that when you read about all the money going to different communities, whether it's through EPA or even through USDA, right? Yes, the the water reuse discussion doesn't really appear very frequently in in you know in the in the journals. It's a lot of it is hydrants, pipes, you know, meters and things like that, traditional infrastructure. Do you think that culturally, as water, wastewater systems continue to address the infrastructure, renewal, and replacement challenges, right? And that's in the trillions now, right? Yeah, will they find themselves having the margin, both time and money, to consider and invest in water reuse projects? It won't be some pie in the sky idea. That'd be nice to do in the future. But will they be able to, over the next 20 to 50 years, get to a point where they've addressed a lot of the burning platform issues. And now they can address many of the issues that you're leading on right now in the world of water reuse. Do you see that as an optimistic scenario? I do see that as optimistic.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, we've both worked in in agencies that have regulated and inspected and looked at water facilities. I I won't sugarcoat it. Um, some communities will be better prepared than others. I mean, we both know that. You go to the small wastewater facilities or drinking or communities around the country, and they're just they they lack the financial, the technical, and the managerial capacity to think about these things. So for some, it will be a real struggle. Yeah. Um, and that's part of the reason why EPA is investing, I think,$200 million in technical assistance to these small communities. They can be rural communities, they can be poor communities in urban areas, but they all can get the technical assistance they need because frankly, they don't have the consultants, the lawyers that a big water um uh utility would have uh on hand. And so I think it'll be a struggle for some, and it'll be something that um the big the big players out there will readily uh move to and plan for and think through along the way. And we're we already see that in so many ways. Yeah, yeah, but but technical assistance will be important. I also want to give a shout out to EPA. Um, they're in this administration, they're very um very interested in water reuse. And um, under the last Trump administration, they started the Water Reuse Action Plan, which is um a really great document that helps provide information to communities. And it's my understanding that EPA is uh so committed under the Trump administration that they're going to update that. They want to they want to continue thinking through water reuse and putting together action plans that enable those small communities that might struggle with this to meet the challenge of providing safe and clean, pure water to their residents.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, your comments about some of the systems that you visited and the funding has has kind of made me think that there might be multiple scenarios, depending upon the the size and sophistication of the utility that's out there. As you and I know, you know, 80% of the of the at least the water utilities, uh drinking water utilities, you know, 80% are small and very small, uh, or small and medium-sized systems, right? Yep. And you know, you you rightly so have highlighted the success and the vision and capabilities of some of the large or very large uh water and wastewater systems, DC Water, San Diego, LA, they have clearly the financial manager on technical capability to do just about anything. But yeah, when you think about, you know, just hitting a rural water conference or a local state uh, you know, an AWA conference, these are these are just folks that are the salt of the earth and they're not working for large cities. And a lot of them are strapped for time and resources. And so that kind of prompted my observation about will we see in the future these smaller systems that predominate um across America? Will we see them have margin to take the time to focus on water reuse projects in the future, especially if if you're successful at expanding the amount of incentives uh financial or otherwise available to these systems? But they're gonna be able to look away from the day-to-day putting out the fires of I got, I need money for the pipe that's leaking. I need money for, you know, to fix this at the treatment plant, where they're gonna have margin to then say, you know, there's some other opportunities here to really engage in in resilience activities or provide some redundancy or to save money by implementing these, these uh water reuse uh solutions. So that's kind of what triggered my thought on that. And and is is is that a future you see these maybe these different scenarios? You know, the large guys are just taking off and they've got all these showcase systems, if you will. And then the the smaller guys over the next 20 years plus are are beginning to shift their grant requests to not just the the pipe running down Main Street, but to a lot of these water reuse uh solutions you talk about. Is it you see those different scenarios?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I do. I think that's uh that's really insightful, Matt. I think that's that that is and the other driver that will help those small communities. Having worked in Indiana, we both know that you know there are a bunch, as you said, a bunch of small communities with small systems. And oftentimes what we've seen in the past is industry come into those small communities and say, hey, we want to put a food processing plant here, or we want to put some sort of industrial site here. And what we'll do for you, small community, is we will help you expand your facilities to ensure that you can accommodate our needs. We've we've seen it all over the place. And if we have this 30% tax credit in line, then those industries will be able to say, look, there's a way that we'll both sub that we'll both continue to have your water supply be safe, because some communities are worried that the data centers or whatever will take too much water from them. They'll be able to say, no, um, we're gonna invest in a water reuse project that will allow us to put in place the water we need, but preserve the water you have. They'll get a tax credit to do it. The city will expand their facility, and um it it will help solve a problem that can be dicey for small communities uh today. So, yes, I do see ways that this can this can really be engaged and the drivers will be different in different places, but one will be industry itself will come in and say, look, we we can help you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I do think your observation about not just typical utilities, but industrial and commercial concerns taking a leadership role in water reuse of the future. I think that is uh interesting to me. Um, and that could be for many reasons. Uh obviously central would be economic reasons, but there could be uh commitments that they're making connected to uh ESG and sustainability, things like that. But, you know, one question, got to ask the the Debbie Downer type question. Do you see a scenario where the water reuse uh sector, just what we call a collapse scenario, where it's not just business as usual or transformation, but that things go wrong and something happens that causes the country to say, well, we better hold on, let's take a take a pause here due to X, Y, or Z. Let's take a break and rethink water reuse. Is there anything out there that, you know, not that I'm suggesting there's a black swan event out there, but could you see a scenario where where maybe things uh are a bit different?
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Uh I could, and it it's a really good question because it's important to understand what are the drivers that could, you know, cause this to stop. And there are a few that I can think of. One is, of course, um an accident, an environmental problem due to uh operation of a facility that isn't working properly. Yeah. And that that could cause people to say, wow, this is terrible. I can't believe this. We're drinking what water? I think most people turn on their tap these days and they don't think about the source of the water. And and we like to say, um, you shouldn't don't think about the history of the water. Think about the quality of the water. The quality is key. And if the quality is good, then the questions will will just be, well, great, can I have more of it or or whatever. But um, but if it if the water quality, if for something happens, that's when people will could easily say, wow, this is uh a problem, which is why what we're doing is trying to first um educate people. And one of the things lessons that has been learned, um, whether you're in Texas or Arizona or California or other places is it's super important to educate the public and not just once. It's not, it's not you just say, well, we had three hearings and we uh no, you you have to do a variety of other things. In San Diego, for example, they're building a whole building, it's this enormous building that's devoted just to educating the people about these systems and how they work, so that um people are well aware of the quality. And then they there's training that needs to be taken, undertaken of the operators themselves. When you do a water reuse, especially if it's a potable water reuse project, whether it's direct or indirect, you must the the operators must be um more highly trained to operate a system that uses advanced technology than in some other places. So training's important as well. Um and then there's um an area where you might be surprised, but I think a lack of a template for regulating these kinds of facilities could cause a real slowdown and um and collapse of the uh of water reuse as an option. And I think about um California, it's got extensive regulations about what kind of things you need to do to put in place a facility for water reuse. Arizona has got um uh regulations in place, Colorado and Florida, but you go to Ohio and they don't yet. Um, if they don't put in place regulations, that means that if you want to do a project, you every single project must kind of reinvent the wheel and must go through this all over again with the regulators. That's that's a a way to kill um water reuse because it's too complicated. Right. But but that kind of thinking is out there. I was just in touch with my friends in Indiana, and and uh I was like, you guys, we need you guys to put in place regulations for water reuse. And they were like, why? Well, what don't aren't our water quality standards good enough? And it's not that they're not good enough, but you know, how are you gonna get a construction permit? Well, what are the requirements for a construction permit? What about your permit? Is it an NPDS permit? Uh you know, they're just a billion questions. Um and so to kind of offset that issue, we're developing a new comprehensive state legislative and regulatory guide. And that guide's really important because states like Ohio and Illinois and South Carolina and others are are moving and they want to put in place a system. Maybe they don't want to do California's because they think it's too complicated. Right. But you should have some sort of a template out there that people can work from. So I think those are all issues that's great. Yeah, could really affect this. And and we need to be prepared to deal with those issues. So I think we're trying to anticipate them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I think I think you're right. I mean, you know, we've all seen airplane-related incidents, a door falling off. So they ground, you know, they ground all those airplanes for a while. And that could be a case, you know, in water reuse. Maybe there's an operational feature or something like that that we didn't consider. It's malfunctioning, it's not treating the water correctly. So we have to pause. Um, and then you could see, much like we've had with PFOS, right? Maybe there's something we're missing and we're not treating it correctly. And then people in the community, there's a backlash, right? You know, my kids are playing on the soccer field and you're spraying it with this, you know, uh, water reuse stuff, and it's not safe. And so there's kind of a social backlash that causes the industry to pause for a moment to consider what it's doing. But as you point out, you're trying to, if I hear you correctly, put some consistency out there, a model, model legislation, perhaps, that says, yes, at least, you know, we need some construction standards. You know, how do you how do you build this stuff, you know, correctly? And then two operational standards. You know, how do you you can build it well, but if you don't operate it well, you know, we have a problem. So, you know, you're leading the way to uh see how that's going to work in the future uh when it comes to water reuse so that it doesn't become an Achilles heel for the future of water reuse. Is that fair?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's totally fair. I would just add the one thing we didn't say. Um was funding, funding, funding, funding. Everything is always about funding.
SPEAKER_00:And funding's not a big deal, is it?
SPEAKER_01:We uh we we we've seen it in um communities all around the country where it if you don't have the assistance, whether it's the SRF dollars or some Withia program or something, well, you know, it's it's put on the back burner. Yeah. And it's put on the back burner for a long time because it's out of sight, out of mind. So funding is super important. And that's the reason we signed a letter to Congress saying we are supportive along with all of the other water associations, whether it's NACWA or AWWA or any of the others, we're very supportive of fully funding the state revolving fund program. And Congress seems to have listened Senate hasn't increased the funding but they've kept it in in the ballpark of um where it was in the past. The other danger with the funding part is um uh earmarks earmarks is a is an issue we haven't talked about but Congress over the last few years is really individual congressmen have special pet projects and they get funding where do they get that funding from where does it come from it's taken out of the bipartisan infrastructure law dollars devoted to the SRF program. So by doing earmarks and increasing in earmarks the reduction in the SRF dollars is is there we don't we're not against earmarks yeah what we are is in favor of the earmarks being funded separately.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah the pot is$100 and then with earmarks now it's$75 to be allocated yeah yeah that's right. Yeah okay okay well one one final question Bruno how is the future of water reuse different or will be different in your mind as compared to the future of drinking water or wastewater?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah this is uh such a good question one of the things I think of is that water and wastewater have always been connected always um but from a a legislative and a regulatory process they're separate you have the Clean Water Act and you have the Safe Drinking Water Act they have different the they have different uh terminology they have different uh standards um and and um what I see water reuse as is a way to bridge both things a kind of a bringing back together two areas that because of legislation were totally separate and so I think it reintegrates both water and drinking water and wastewater into a circular one-water system which I will acknowledge is is a difficult deal because it requires states and the federal government to think about well do we need another mechanism another regulatory uh template or guide guidelines that would offer standardization uh to the um the to to to uh water reuse systems um and so what what's different about water reuse is that it it kind of navigates between those two different worlds even though they're really not different worlds um they're all part of one water right and in order for this to be successful it'll be required it'll require I think some of those those tax incentives to spur interest it'll require that um on the at least on the state level Matt there's um legisl I mean regulation that's put in place that helps ensure we know what we're supposed to do when we do this stuff it will require education um because if we don't have education the trust we we've seen how just bottled water is you know affected the trust levels of our tap water i i yeah uh it's amazing how that's happened but we need to ensure we educate people about these systems so that they're both um understanding them and and understand this is pure water it's really good um and then um then we'll we'll uh we'll see this and and you know we don't do as much education we do a lot of education on the drinking water and wastewater side but it's not it it's often project by project in in water reuse it's got to be constant and it's got to be not a project it's just we're gonna talk to you about our water yeah so and I think that those people that are already invested in doing water reuse recognize that and are doing that. But um the folks that are just dipping their toes in the water or trying to look at it may not understand what a big um education component is. And that's that's how it's different I think.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Well Bruno I want to thank you for being a guest today on the Water Foresight podcast a lot to think about when it comes to the future of water reuse. I will welcome you to come back and uh in in due time to update us on what's happening in the world of water reuse. This is a fascinating conversation many threads that we could uh tug on and talk about for hours on end. But again I thank you for being a guest today on the Water Foresight podcast and let our listeners know where can they reach you?
SPEAKER_01:They can reach me they can email me at bpigot at waterreuse dotorg or they can just look us up on our website which is waterreuse.org.
SPEAKER_00:Wonderful Bruno thank you again for being a tremendous uh thoughtful guest on the Waterforesight podcast today and we thank you the listeners for joining us today and we'll see you on the next episode of the Waterforesight podcast. Have a great day thank you Matthew foresight podcast powered by the Aqualars group for more information please visit us at aqualars.com or follow us on LinkedIn and Twitter
