North GA Blue: Getting into Good Trouble

Fred Swann, Democratic Candidate for GA Agriculture Commissioner

September 15, 2021 Fannin Co. GA Democratic Party
North GA Blue: Getting into Good Trouble
Fred Swann, Democratic Candidate for GA Agriculture Commissioner
Show Notes Transcript

The North GA Blue: Getting into Good Trouble podcast covers democratic politics in North GA, the 9th Congressional District, and across the state of Georgia. The podcast is in Q&A/Interview format with various democratic politicos including county chairs, democratic operatives, politicians, and more. It is our mission to deliver crucial information to our listeners in a timely manner as we fight for community values and principles in the 3rd most Conservative district in the state. Our website is: https://www.fcdpga.com/podcasts

Our guests highlight democratic activities and actions to work toward a Blue Georgia. The 9th Congressional District spans 20 counties across the region and covers a good deal of northern GA including Blue Ridge, Morganton, Fannin, Union, Banks, Athens/Clarke, Dawson, Elbert, Forsyth, Franklin, Gilmer, Habersham, Hall, Hart, Jackson, Lumpkin, Madison, Pickens, Rabun, Stephens, Towns, and White counties. 

Our democratic party podcast also disseminates information and interviews powerful Democrats across the state of GA who are working to overthrow the suppression tactics of the GOP and ensure democracy and our values, grassroots efforts, and goals remain intact. 

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Meral Clarke:

Hello and welcome back to the North Georgia Blue Podcast produced and distributed by the Fannin County, Georgia Democratic Party. I'm your host Meral Clarke. And we're getting into some good trouble today with our guest, Fred Swann, Democratic candidate for Georgia agriculture commissioner. Welcome to the show. Fred. We're happy to have you with us today.

Fred Swann:

Oh, it is great to be with you. Thank you so much for the invite.

Meral Clarke:

Fantastic. Well, let's tell our listeners a little bit about you. Fred Swann is an activist, agricultural entrepreneur and cannabis policy expert who is running to be Georgia's next agriculture commissioner. Fred has been active in Georgia politics for over a decade building coalitions between diverse interests and party affiliations to improve the lives of all Georgians. Currently, he's been working alongside legislatures to reform Georgia's hemp laws for farmers, consumers and business owners. Fred also serves as Vice Chair for Greening Georgia, the Environmental Council for the Democratic Party of Georgia. Fred is a graduate of Mercer University and holds an MBA from Wesleyan College. How are you doing today, Fred?

Fred Swann:

I'm Fantastic.

Meral Clarke:

Well, I had a few questions for you. If you're up for that, tell me what are some of the responsibilities of the agriculture commissioner? What does the department do and why should we care?

Fred Swann:

That last question is my favorite so I'm gonna save it for last. The Department of Agriculture does a lot of things things people don't even realize. So obviously, agriculture would relate to farms and farming so you know, you're regulating the activities that go along with farming, such as fertilizer use pesticide use, pesticides are actually a thing that the department regulates but it's not just like on farms, we also license all exterminators for that reason. But there are other things that people don't even think about, like for example, our mandate to take care of agriculture leads to large animals for animal agriculture and husbandry but also small animals, pets, really, yes, we actually regulate veterinarians, we licensed veterinarians, animal control places, each county, animal breeders, pet stores, all of that. We also regulate supermarkets, including grocers. We check for temperature, make sure that they've got the refrigerator, the right temperature, things are not going out of date, et cetera, et cetera. And we licensed them Weights and Measures. This is a tremendous amount. And one thing that people are most surprised about, that the department regulates are the gas pumps at gas stations. If you ever pump gas, look for right now, it is a black and green sticker on the pump. Because the current commissioners campaign paraphernalia use black and green so he's chosen to use it for the Agriculture Department. But there's gonna be a sticker where it says department agriculture has inspected that pump to ensure that it is pumping the right amount of gas Kip, it says it pumped five gallons and it cost you this much. That's what you got. If you think about it, we really don't know. We're just trusting the dial. And so what it has become is kind of a dumping ground. Because under the Constitution, these constitutional offices aren't clearly defined for the most part. They just say there shall be an office of agriculture commissioner and his duty shall be defined by the Georgia legislature. So whatever the legislature feels is related to agriculture, they will put in there but they've just been putting more and more things in there, especially because we have Republican led legislature now we've had a Republican commissioner for the past 12 years or 11. Now it'll be 12 by the time of the election, and so they feel they can just dump more and more power and authority into this office because they feel like it's safe. So that's actually a good thing for us Democrats because the current commissioner has decided to challenge Senator Warnock for US Senate. So now we have an open seat. And we have a chance to really do something with that power, which I'd like to leave back to our said that last question. Yes, my favorites, which is I believe you asked, why should we care? Why does it matter?

Meral Clarke:

Why should the average Georgian care? Yes, about the Agriculture Department and I believe you've already answered that. But to some degree,

Fred Swann:

I have a little more to say on it. Because we as Democrats, especially we have a lot of concerns and a lot of issues that we like to take care of. I can tell you that almost every single policy issue that Georgians should care about Democrats caring about health care, jobs, education, the environment, infrastructure, you name it, it's touched by the Agriculture Department, and not really in tangental ways, really in direct ways that we can affect. I tell people all the time, this may be one of the most important offices that they are going to vote for in 2022. And that Democrats really need to pay attention to who they're electing, and who they're putting up to make sure that we can utilize this to take care of all of the things that we care about.

Meral Clarke:

So you had mentioned that the current Agriculture Department is coming up with different policies because they feel that it's safe. What does that mean?

Fred Swann:

So, safe for Republican interests. But if things are going to get shaken up, it's not gonna be there. But there are so many things that Democrats can affect, such as food access, which leads to health care, such as education, the environment, not just climate change, although to some degree, but also local environmental issues, where Republicans are really just worried about the economic bottom line, but not thinking about the lived experience of people day to day. And honestly, this is a place where Democrats can make some real movement because we have a real chance to change a lot of the regulations that have come out with the permit bag call.

Meral Clarke:

Yes, Yes, we do. So what are your top policy issues and goals? Why are you running and what's wrong with our current commissioner?

Fred Swann:

There are so many things that I could talk about, I've really tried to narrow it down to four things. First, I want to increase the number of small family farms throughout the state. Small family farms have been in utter decline throughout the state and the nation. This has been a concerted effort by big ag interests to continue to consolidate land make it where this little guy can't really win. And so they have to sell off their land or get caught in these captive contracts like a lot of poultry farmers are throughout the state. And I would like to make it where the regulations work. For more Georgians to be involved in agriculture as much agricultural entrepreneurs and farmers. A specific set of farmers who have been really disenfranchised are black farmers, who have been literally through redlining, bad loan policies from USDA from Democrats and Republican administrations. And literally a case of being sold bad seeds, I'm sure is not the first one is the one that got the most attention. We have so many times where black farmers are literally chased off their land. And so black farmers throughout the state, getting more new farmers, people who are returning to the land, that's my number one goal that feeds into everything else. The second priority is food access. Now, the term food deserts get thrown around a lot in these circles. I personally don't use this term, and I will not use it during the campaign, the term that we are choosing to use is food apartheid.

Meral Clarke:

Okay. And what does that mean? And why is it a problem?

Fred Swann:

Let's talk about what food deserts referred to. A food desert refers to a region where you don't have ready access to fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, and fresh meats. Your only option may be a corner convenience store, or if you're in a very rural location as the Dollar General, most of your food is going to come out of a bag or a box or a can. Very little is fresh, none of it's Georgia grown. And so the reason why we are moving away from food deserts talk about these regions, is because deserts are natural. Okay, that makes sense. Whereas these regions are created by policy. It's created by people who create policy, and we have people who make policy to eradicate them. But also another point is that many of the demographics that make up many of these regions are black and brown people, black people, indigenous people, Latin x people and a policy that affects a marginalized under resourced community. I don't know how else to describe that. But in apartheid, I can't take credit for it. I actually learned that term from California, Los Angeles area food activists Olympia Offset, and I know it's a provocative term, but we need to provoke people to action about this. So obviously more small family farms feeding into more local grocers. Do you know we have at least we haven't finished the research on this because there's no data on this. We campaigns editor's research. There are at least nine counties that don't have a supermarket or a grocer within them.

Meral Clarke:

Really Yes. Oh, my That's terrible. Yes.

Fred Swann:

My home area of Middle Georgia Crawford County Roberto Their Piggly Wiggly closed. Once the Piggly Wiggly closed the entire county was a food insecure region. You had to travel to Bibb County up to maybe 30 minutes or more away, depending upon where you live to get to the nearest place that was a Walmart. Now that was it. And that's happening in urban areas. It's happening in rural areas. And that's why I said the fact that the Commissioner of Agriculture regulates grocers and supermarkets is part of one of our opportunities that we have. So that's one thing I want small family farms feeding into local grocers, supermarkets, farmer's markets, pop up markets, etc.

Meral Clarke:

I imagine this is happening more often in more rural areas than urban areas. Yes?

Fred Swann:

Yeah. But the definitions change depending upon whether you're urban or rural, because the expectation of motorized travel changes. But yes, obviously, the larger regions are rural and agricultural, which is both shocking and sad. It's agricultural, and they don't have access to fresh food. How does that even work? So obviously, we have a lot of work to do. I have a lot of ideas on how to change that. But identifying the problem seeing it as an emergency is going to be part of what we have to do to begin to solve this problem

Meral Clarke:

And the current office, are they doing anything to address this?

Fred Swann:

No, not at all. Because they will say that this is merely a function of free markets that these areas cannot sustain a supermarket or grocer. And so obviously, no one would come into them. And so why should they even be bothered. Meanwhile, there are so many things that we can do if we're actually using the functions of government the way they are designed. I mean, we could work with the legislature to create food opportunities zones in under resourced communities, to create tax abatements or even funding or whatnot, if we see food, and the suppliers of food as a fundamental good, a public good, as we do so many other things. And honestly, this is kind of why I say this leads into so many things that Democrats claim to care about. We talk about health care more for universal health care, I think that health care should become a right personally, however, we end up making that happened. Democrats obviously care about getting more health care, especially with the rural hospital closure epidemic. But if we're not talking about nutrition, how can we talk about health?

Meral Clarke:

Well, food insecurity is certainly a major issue in the US right now. And across Georgia. Yeah. So that feeds in to the rural hospitals and everything else, as you stated.

Fred Swann:

Exactly, because people are not being nourished to where they should be. So they're less healthy. So they need more care, which creates more strain on the system. So we don't have a system of well care, we have a system of sick care. But then let's talk about education. Let's talk about all the children who their only meal may be at their public school, their breakfast and lunch, because they're so food insecure, one out of I think eight children in Georgia go hungry. If it's not when you're hungry, which not well nourished, you're not going to learn as well as your peers, that's going to limit your opportunities, it's going to limit your future by has huge knock on impacts. And we need to be talking about that more, not just as, wouldn't it be nice to but as a build, that needs to be addressed. Immediately.

Meral Clarke:

It is a real problem. And that's everywhere. That's not just in rural counties, either. No, that's across the state. Absolutely. So and I see very little discussion about that. So we're so happy that you're running and bringing all of this to the forefront because it's critical. And it is amazing how the actual office of agriculture touches every other aspect of consumerism and life. So speaking of food, how has COVID-19 affected the food supply chain?

Fred Swann:

Good question, because we remember when COVID first started, and everybody was all locked down, you started seeing all these reports of dairy farmers dumping their milk, millions of gallons of milk and other farmers leaving their fields to rot or having whole store houses that weren't being processed. And people were like, why won't you just put it in the stores? We will take it you know, we have a central workers who will deliver it what's going on? And the problem is that it's a nationwide problem with regard to our network distribution. Because essentially, we found out we have these choke points in our food network, and COVID-19 showed them up and thank goodness it was something like a pandemic which wasn't planned as opposed to say a terrorist attack which attacked these points, but the points are processing plants, there's always a middleman between you and the farmer. And that's someone who processes whatever it is or delivers or distributes. There's a warehouse or a processor for your meat products or something. But that's a consolidated entity that consolidates the work of hundreds of 1000s of farms. Sometimes, you know, we have over 47,000 farms throughout the state, but only a handful of processors of various sorts for various industries. And those choke points when COVID hit people are staying home, even the factory workers, even the plant workers, even the warehouse workers and the distributors. And But first, we didn't know really how to handle that, though. Honestly, COVID-19 should have been a wake up call to us all that our network as we have it now is not working, or it works until it doesn't. And it'll be very easy for it to be disrupted.

Meral Clarke:

Do we need more processors? Do we need more middlemen?

Fred Swann:

Probably. And we need it to be easier to be ome a processor, we need more i spectors to inspect more p aces. And so everything costs m ney, you know, I'm saying and s at some point, we have to say t is is important enough for us t put our tax dollar behind. A d so we need more processors, we need more wareho se distribution, places that re smaller and more decentrali ed and distributed. But it' a bigger question, honestly, t an even just one state agricult re commissioner can solve but ur current leadership is in in he discussion. Again, just let he free market do what it wi

Meral Clarke:

And we know that doesn't work.

Fred Swann:

Right, exactly.

Meral Clarke:

So I think that's been proven over and over again. So yes, we need to do that. And speaking about issues that are important to rural communities, the environment. Let's talk a little bit about that. How can you as agriculture commissioner help with conservation and environmental concerns?

Fred Swann:

Conservation is important to every agriculturalist anybody who makes their living from growing things from the ground, although that's not every agriculturalists but anybody who's invested in our groundwater and air, the problem comes when big ag farms who aren't as invested in their local communities and land from which things come from

Meral Clarke:

The large commercial farmers, correct?

Fred Swann:

Correct the big factory farm operations, when they just spray whatever fertilizer often used animal feces from other plants or their own plants all over crops indiscriminately, and it gets into the groundwater use all kinds of pesticides, when we're not encouraging more sustainable agriculture, more permaculture, more restorative agriculture, that's when we're going to have issues where not just climate change, although agriculture is a huge contributor to climate change, and I can talk about what we call CAFOs concentrated animal feeding operations and needing to regulate those. But even if you don't want to get into the big problem of climate change for somebody's rural communities, it's so hard, because it's so big. So out there, if we don't want to get to that, let's talk about private properties. If your groundwater is so contaminated by the waste from a local farm, if your local air is so contaminated, your kids can't play outside, even though you live in a rural community, how are you having the enjoyment of your private property at that point? And at that point, then we need to be thinking about encouraging those farmers and there are many, many who are good stewards of their land and good neighbors to their communities, but also closely regulating those who are just looking at the bottom line and trying to meet a quarterly profit goal and don't really care what they do to the environment because you know, in 50 years, they can move on. Meanwhile, those communities that they leave behind are just sitting with soil that is no more nutritious for plants as moon dust. So having a commissioner who cares about inspections cares about making certain that we encourage the good stewards that are out there making sure that we regulate those who would pollute our land that's critical to everything that we care about. Agriculture is Georgia's number one industry. In 50 years, will we even have an agriculture industry if we don't take care of our land?

Meral Clarke:

Right. And I know coal ash is a huge problem as well. Yes. And that's something the Sierra Club and others are working on. So would you help with the origination of more organic farming, less use of pesticides, and more concern for the environment correct?

Fred Swann:

Absolutely. Organic is a USDA certification, but we can help shepherd those who want seek that certification. But there are other certifications that are less stringent than organic. And we can shepherd them through that as well, that still is going to have the same environmental impacts. It's a matter of, do we care enough to actually supplement those farmers who are trying to do the right thing? Can we take conventional farmers who want to move to a more sustainable route and shepherd them through it? And are we just going to again, just take our hands off the wheel, hope for the best. And I don't think that that's the path that we really want to go down. But yes, we would want to have a commissioner who cares about our environment and cares about getting more organic farms, more sustainable agriculture, but also like helping the land grant universities and the agricultural colleges UGA Fort Valley State, ABAC in Tifton, to do more teaching on how to do organic farming and sustainable agriculture in a profitable way. And also more research on how to get those things done, but also more vertical agriculture, more for urban agriculture, where we do things on the inside, we don't need so much pesticides. Now vertical, agricultural things such as hydroponic aquaponic, those things have their own environmental tolls. But there's also just not enough research yet on how to make them both economically viable and environmentally sustainable. But if we actually decide that we're going to put our political capital and our economic capital towards these goals, they can be very beneficial for us.

Meral Clarke:

Absolutely. And I do have a question, though, is organic farming. I know it's more sustainable. But is it less expensive, more expensive than current farming methods is it on par?

Fred Swann:

When you're dealing on scale. So like, if you're dealing on a huge scale, it can be somewhat more expensive, because honestly, the ability to just throw down a phosphorus fertilizer, and spray your crops with an inexpensive pesticide that kills bugs that eat your crops, but also the microfauna that can sustain crops for generations, those chemicals have become relatively inexpensive, mainly because so much research has gone into making them less expensive.

Meral Clarke:

And they've been around forever.

Fred Swann:

Yeah, they've been around since World War Two. Honestly, that's kind of why we became the breadbasket of the world World War Two helped us become the breadbasket of the world, because we honestly found that the components for making those bombs could also be made to make fertilizer, we converted bomb factories into fertilizer factories, and we had a decimated Europe that needed crops. And so that's kind of where that started. But now we're in a state where we've created an unsustainable system that is not even feeding local communities anymore. But it's really hard to break a habit that's that old but you got to, you got to.

Meral Clarke:

So going back to a subject that's near and dear to my heart as a vegetarian, let's talk again about animal welfare. I was surprised I am surprised to learn that domestic animals fall under the Agriculture Department purview. So what is the current state of that regulation? And how well are animals being protected? And I also wanted to ask you about puppy mills, but go ahead and and address this first.

Fred Swann:

The fact that you said the word puppy mills tells me that you already know the answer to the first question, which is they are not at all protected, unfortunately. When my predecessor entered office, the first thing he did was slash budgets, and it was animal inspectors. And he did it on the idea of trying to cut down costs for taxpayers, which in and of itself is laudable, but when you're making cuts, who actually cutting fat, are you cutting muscle and bone? And I think he treated this like it was cutting fat but state of animal welfare in our state is abysmal. I can tell you right now, I've worked with various Animal Rescue groups. During my time, we actually are working with Cheryl Flanagan's save the horses group who really does the Lord's work when it comes to animals, and especially horses, but also she has a peacock. I mean, she has a lot of different animals. But if you ever go and work, her little animal shelter, Animal Rescue, because you know, all she does is take care of animals, the abuse, that they have sustained these horses, and literally she'll go to the department and say you should stop this person they're abusing animals shouldn't hear a word also know of a no kill shelter. I spoke with their executive director who is telling me that they don't get inspected, they simply do not get inspected. Someone comes into the apartment, rubber stamps their approval, and they're on to the next year. And she says I'm really conscientious I follow all the rules. But the fact that I'm not getting inspected means other people aren't getting inspected, including people who aren't going to be so conscientious. There are people who are not following the rules. There are dogs who put out multiple litters per year, and are literally kept in a cage and just bred. And that's their whole life has bred put out puppies bred again, put out puppies, again, that's their whole life. And she said, If I'm not being inspected, other people aren't being inspected. And honestly, the good people who are doing the right things, know the conditions, and know that we need change. And the fact that lead presses are cut the budget and eliminated jobs and eliminated inspectors, he didn't care. Meanwhile, they literally don't have enough inspectors to do the job. I mean, that's just how it is. So yeah, so there are puppy mills, who feed into your pet lands. And so let me just go ahead and say one thing to your audience, please, please go to a no kill shelter and adopt,

Meral Clarke:

Yes, please adopt, don't shop,

Fred Swann:

Please do not go to a pet store, in your mall or whatever, and buy one of those animals, because we really need to move the money away from this being a profitable venture. And that is one way in which you can adopt an animal who really need you. And support nonprofits who are really proud. They're protecting the animals. We all love our cats and dogs. I've got a cat who we love, and we're building a house. Now we're moving into the Gainesville areas. So I will be up in the night and a couple months. So feel free to bother me a lot. But once we move we're planning on getting a dog and I promise you that dog will be a rescue because that is our ethic. I think it should be everyone's ethic in Georgia.

Meral Clarke:

Right, not to mention the importance of spaying and neutering. Yes. Which I just wanted to throw that out there. Do you think Georgia will ever become a no kill state? Is it possible?

Fred Swann:

Ever is a broad word. And yes, I can see us becoming a no kill state. And I would applaud that. To get there from here is an immense leap. And so I think that we need to continue to make steps in animal welfare that leads us there.

Meral Clarke:

Thank you for that. And thank you for speaking on that very critical issue. So let's drill down to the actual farm laborers. What are some of the key issues that they face? And what is your stance on helping them?

Fred Swann:

So farm laborers are one of the four things I talk about my campaign every single time I talk. Most farm laborers are Latinx. And many of those are undocumented. But even those who have a legal status are migrant workers under H-2A the temporary visa for agricultural workers. And honestly, H-2A is just a path to abusing workers, I'm just going to be very real with you. Because they are at the sole discretion of the owner of the farm. And that visa can be revoked at any time. The people who hire H-1A workers dictate not just their hours or how much they work or under what conditions they can sometimes dictate where they live, they can sometimes dictate, what they do in their off hours. They dictate so much of their lives. But the undocumented workers face even more problems. And we can talk about securing the border all we want. But the undocumented people are here and they are getting jobs. They're getting jobs in the poultry plants. Did you guys hear about the deaths at the Gainesville poultry plant?

Meral Clarke:

Yes, I had read about that. It was horrible. Absolutely tragic.

Fred Swann:

Yeah, absolutely tragic. And there were six deaths that were reported. It is tragic, but it was also just tip of the iceberg of what's really goes on these plants.

Meral Clarke:

And it should be avoidable. Correct?

Fred Swann:

Oh, it's absolutely avoidable. But also, I work with GA Familias Unidas which is a group that works on workers rights. Right now they're just trying to make sure these folks have proper PPE. Because their plant doesn't. I actually one day was out there in the morning at a break area handing out PPE to people masks and gloves and it was scooping up because they don't want to catch COVID. But they still have to work but they are our central workers. Many of these people are undocumented I have no idea what their statuses that mask I'm just handing out and saying gracias and move on. But we have a situation where those six we only know about them because there were so many and because their families could come together as to fight on behalf of their rights. When it's one or two. I actually have one story I can tell you about a poultry plant worker whose wife was also a poultry plant worker. They're both undocumented and she actually died from an injury that happened in the plant and on the way to the hospital, he's put in a car with one of the plant supervisors who can speak Spanish and the guys telling him, you know, hey, if you don't follow us, when we say, well, they ended up saying was that the woman went home and died. And so it wasn't a factory accident, and they couldn't have any OSHA violations and no workers comp or anything like that. And so they were like, hey, if you report this, you know, their hospitals ask question your status.

Meral Clarke:

So they were threatened, essentially.

Fred Swann:

So the next call is gonna be to ICE, he had to stay silent. And I'm telling you his story in hypotheticals of a woman and a man because he still lives in fear, because they have children. And unfortunately, she did die. And if he's deported or put in to an ICE detention center, what happens to their children, and he has to make that calculation. And that's what's going on every single day in those plants, just so we could have a chicken dinner at night.

Meral Clarke:

Right across, which is why I don't eat chicken or any other meat. But right. But this is across the board. This is not unusual, correct, right? Because they're not being properly regulated to follow OSHA rules, and so on.

Fred Swann:

Correct. And the problem is that even if they report, OSHA is really slow to investigate these things, honestly. But even if they report it, and they could have a call to ICE, I want to create an anonymous tip line, everyone can call in, they're safe from emigration. They are safe from any kind of that investigation, or can merely investigate workplace violations. But they need someone in the office, who's worked with these communities as I have and knows the struggles they're going through so that we can know what they need, because it affects so many people. Yes. And honestly, I'm not comfortable with very cheap abuse, labor producing meals for our families. If it means that people are so abused, I'm just not comfortable with it. And if it costs just a little more at the register, so that companies can do the right thing. I think that every Georgian can get behind that message of we just don't want to save a few pennies on the backs of human suffering.

Meral Clarke:

I agree. It's critical that we get that done so people can stop suffering. How do you handle the perception of the agriculture commissioner race as inherently rural and perhaps a conservative position, at least as viewed in Georgia?

Fred Swann:

You know what, that has been a real problem, especially for Democrats and i feel like we've been seeding that ground for a very long time. And honestly, the way I do it is I just talk about the issues, the way I'm talking about them with you now. The average base of Republicans, conservatives, even libertarians understand that right now, regulations are set up to just help the big ag corporations, the wealthy and well connected, and not to help the little guy. And so honestly talking about these issues, as we're now almost anyone can see that these are not left and right issues, but right and wrong issues.

Meral Clarke:

It's an ethical question.

Fred Swann:

Correct. And it gets away from the Red Team Blue Team stuff. I mean, yes, I'm a Democrat. I've worked in Democratic politics for over a decade. But my race is supported by Republicans, libertarians, people who are nonpartisan altogether, just because we're seeing that we've left us in the hands of people who are not viewing this as an ethical issue for too long. And so I have already the practice of how to reach across the aisle, ideologically without sacrificing our principles as Democrats.

Meral Clarke:

Which is more and more difficult to do these days. Sadly, yes.

Fred Swann:

It really is. Our hyper partisan arena is becoming so toxic. This is one area where we can all come together if we will just see these issues in ethical ways and even economic ways. Kitchen table economics where rural communities are saying, Okay, yeah, you know what, we're a rural community, but we're an agricultural community, but is agriculture really working for us, and I've said so many times once you really break it down for people they understand. And so I already have the experience on how to bridge that gulf. That's why we got so close in 18.

Meral Clarke:

Right, right. You did. You were right there. So I'm so glad that you're running again. So my next to last question and this is a really interesting one considering what's going on around the nation with this. What is your stance on cannabis legalization and will it ever happen in the state of Georgia? Let's talk about cannabis and hemp. You're an expert. So tell me about it.

Fred Swann:

So we can divide that into two things. hemp and marijuana. Those are largely legal distinctions depending upon the concentration of THC within the plant hemp is currently legal form of cannabis in the United States that was rescheduled as part of the 2018 Farm Bill. And what they did was they sent it down to the states to regulate. And currently we have hemp growers who are wo king their hearts off . We ave hemp processors who are maki g CBD oil who are trying to make hempcrete and other hemp produc s you can make products about 25 26,000 different products ith hemp. That's reall

Meral Clarke:

Oh, it can do so much. Yes,

Fred Swann:

Cloth, paper rope, even wood. It's a phyto remediator, meaning it can actually like heal the soil from heavy metals. It's a carbon sequester, meaning that it can actually take carbon out of the air and hold it in its leaves, depending on how you process it actually can help reduce climate change in some degree. But honestly, hemp in Georgia has become a disaster. And why is that? Because we have some forces that either don't want cannabis in Georgia and kind of want the industry to fail, or want to hold it off for just a few of the big players to be a part of. I know I've been talking for a long time. I'll give you just one example of the problematic issues in our hemp regulation. Did you know that if you want to be a hemp processor in Georgia, to get a permit, that's a $25,000 permit fee per year.

Meral Clarke:

Wow, that is a steep price tag.

Fred Swann:

Do you know how much is in Florida to be a processor? How much $600? Yeah, I actually have a friend who's a hemp activist who spoke with the Florida Agriculture Department director of cannabis, which by the way, they have a director of cannabis and we don't who when she told her that she was like, how can anybody do business in your state?

Meral Clarke:

No one can who can afford it except for the large farms.

Fred Swann:

We have nine total processors right now, maybe 10 by now, but they keep coming in and out because they're like we're going to try and Georgia because Georgia's really great for agriculture could be tremendous for hemp. And again, here, they're getting harassed by drug enforcement, making sure it's not marijuana. So I've been fighting in both the House and Senate ag committees is trying to get these fees down trying to get better rules and regulations that are more fair. Also, one more thing. Did you know that if you have a misdemeanor drug conviction, you can not have a license to grow or permit to process in the state of Georgia a misdemeanor?

Meral Clarke:

That's ridiculous.

Fred Swann:

That means that if when you were a 19 year old kid, you got busted with a dime on the street corner, when you're now a 40 year old person who wants to create a hemp farm to create a way of life, their family, you can't and you're eternally barred from it. Now I will tell you that Senator Kim Jackson's doing really the Lord's work fighting about hemp in the senate ag committee, she actually put forward a motion to just move it from just a misdemeanor to a felony. That means that if you're convicted of a felony, drug trafficking, okay, fine. You know, that's not what we want, but it's closer, they got voted down. So then let's touch base on marijuana really quickly. Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader Democrat has put forward a framework for descheduling marijuana, you're gonna deschedule it, send it to the states, and they're also going to try to expunge convictions for people who previously been punished for marijuana. All sounds great. I'm all for it. The problem is when they sent it back to the states, we're sending it back right now to the same people who didn't want hemp to begin with have screwed up so badly. And so that's why I'm wanting to make certain that I'm in there where I can do the most good to make certain that more people have access to this plant as a medicine as a cash crop what have you .

Meral Clarke:

and all of the terrific uses that hemp applies to and hemp doesn't get you high, right? No, does not. No, there's not. It's the THC content that makes the difference. Correct. And so you're saying that Georgia legislators are not paying attention to the distinction between the two,

Fred Swann:

Either they're not paying attention to this distinction, or there are some people who are taking advantage of those who don't pay attention to this distinction. But I'm in favor of legalizing both i'm in favor of properly regulating and taxing both hemp and marijuana honestly the marijuana prohibition doesn't make sense is an immoral prohibition to me. As long as we can have alcohol as long as we can have Big Macs, anything that's deleterious to your health individually but doesn't really hurt anybody else. I mean, people say well, what about if they're driving high? Okay, fine. We have driving while intoxicated laws on the books already. I don't need you to police an individual's activities. It should not be my job to tell the government why am I allowed to do something. It should be the government's job to explain to me why I'm not allowed to do something if they can't explain it shouldn't be made illegal.

Meral Clarke:

I agree with you. Well, we're running short on time. But before we go, and this has been a great discussion, tell us a fun fact about yourself something that our listeners may be interested in that doesn't have anything to do with politics or your campaign. Okay, all about you.

Fred Swann:

Fine. I am a classically trained vocalist. Really? Yes. One thing that people don't really know about me very much is that that degree from Mercer University is a music degree. And yes, I've sang opera and folk music and everything in between

Meral Clarke:

What led you to get into agriculture as a career?

Fred Swann:

You know, honestly, when I was coming up through the ranks of the Democratic Party, you know, I started out in my local county party, as I think everybody should get involved the local Democratic Party, especially in a rural community, please, please, please, please, please, they need your strength. I became a state committee member and eventually was elected to become the eighth congressional district chair for Democratic Party of Georgia, the eighth congressional district stretches from Middle Georgia, Macon, Bibb area, all the way down to Valdosta. Down to the county line,

Meral Clarke:

that's a wide swath, it's huge.

Fred Swann:

These communities had three things in common. They were rural, they were agricultural, and they were poor. And honestly, when 2018 came up first, I started running for Congress, but some of the higher ups in the Democratic Party said, Hey, Fred, we know you're running for congress in the eighth that would you consider running for agriculture commissioners and why? They said, because you have experience in agricultural communities, and you see the problems, especially at the time when we're calling them with regard to food deserts. And that was the thing that really got me in and I started seeing all of the other problems that Democrats, including myself, at the time, had been ignoring so much when it comes to agriculture. And it's one of those things once you see it, you can't unsee it. And so now I've gotten into the mushroom game to try learn more about that part of agriculture, but I'm also working with other farms and working with farmers markets and everything. But once you see the problem, you can't unsee it and and you felt compelled? Yes, exactly.

Meral Clarke:

Lucky for us.

Fred Swann:

Well, thank you very much. It is a privilege to be able to work with so many great people throughout the state. But honestly, it is one of the things where every Democrat cares about so many issues. And like I said at the top of the show, agriculture touches all of them. And if I really care about all of our Democratic values, then this is the seat that we have to take in 2022.

Meral Clarke:

It's very important, and I'll be honest with you, I had no idea until you started expounding on these issues and elaborating on the necessity of the office. So thank you, Fred, for joining us today and sharing more about your critical work to maintain our democracy. I'm Meral Clarke and on behalf of our team, I'd like to thank everyone for listening to the North Georgia Blue Podcast. We hope you'll listen next time when our special guest will be Nicole Horn Democratic candidate for Georgia Labor Commissioner, another extremely important office. To learn more about the Fannin County Democrats and the work we're doing visit us online at FanninCountyGeorgiaDemocrats.com. Share the North Georgia Blue Podcast with your friends and family and subscribe and follow and if you enjoy our podcast consider becoming a founding patron and friend of the show at NorthGeorgiaBluePodcast.com/podcastpatron so we can continue getting into more good trouble