Deane Beman - Part 3 (Transforming the PGA Tour as Commissioner)

World Golf Hall of Fame member and Commissioner of the PGA Tour from 1974 - 1994, Deane Beman completes his life story by reflecting back on his time leading the Tour through transformative change. He remembers the early challenges as the Tour set out to rebrand itself for the global game and recounts, in vivid detail, the "Coup Attempt" by prominent players of the day which nearly ended the Tour as we know it. The "Square Grooves" litigation with Ping stands out as the Tour's right to set its own rules was confirmed. Deane shares his most significant accomplishments as Commissioner, of which there were many and is quite candid regarding his biggest regret. Deane Beman, in his twenty years at the helm, put his mark on the Tour, "FORE the Good of the Game."

Transcript

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

I want to ask you something, Dean, that's come up in several of our interviews because we've talked to a lot of folks, guys that came over from Australia to play in South Africa and so forth, the UK, and that relates to the experience of the foreign player coming into the PGA tour back in the early days. Now, you have the player perspective, and you also have uh sort of the administrator perspective from running the tour, and we've heard the players and their perspectives, but there was uh obviously some bias against the foreign players back in the early days. Uh uh, you know, what I've gathered, it didn't come from the the elite players, they didn't feel threatened, but uh but for the the the middle rung uh PGA uh players who were trying to put uh bread on the family's table, uh they felt that these guys were taking uh money off the table. What's your recollection of that as both player and commissioner?

Deane Beman 1:09

Well, I think there was I think there was some uh friction about it, no question about it. Um I can tell you my view, and my view was that I that that um I I I viewed very early on golf as a global game. Uh very on early on, uh we had we were the it was a pittance, but we had uh our you know Japan was the first place that was really uh valuable money money-wise for the tour. Um and we had our telecasts, uh, we sold those rights for telecasting in Japan, and it was modest, modest money to start with. But but Japan back in the early 70s was really growing in golf, it was a big deal in in Japan. And uh and and I I put I put an organ a uh series of events together with our players over in Japan and put some matches on so that we introduced more and more of our players personally to the Japanese audience. And those those rights fees grew exponentially, uh very, very quickly. And so I I belie I I believed immediately that globalization of golf was going to be huge for the future. So uh we we uh then then put together the uh the uh you know the World Series of Golf that was a four-man exhibition. I converted that to an international event, uh the World Series of Golf from four players to s to 30 players right out of the box. Uh and and I wanted international players to come here so they'd so that they would be renowned when they got home, uh and b and build globalization of the PGA tour. Uh and and and and that was big that is today huge money. And for instance, today, uh give to give you some some numbers. If a title sponsor uh is a U.S. company only and pays$12 million to be a title sponsor at their event, the tourist calculated that that sponsor will get nearly$25 to$30 million in value for that$12 million investment. If it's an international company and has a global outreach, that value almost doubles to$40 million. So somebody puts up$12 million, may get$40 million in value for a$12 million investment. Uh that's how that's how uh golf uh uh has become a global game. So uh I recognized that very, very early and put together the Kieran Cup, uh, where we had you know the Ryder Cup. But I wanted the rest of the international players to have this forum that the Ryder Cup had provided for European players and and US players. Um so we put the Kieran Cup on. Um then we we we expanded the uh the World Series of Golf for international players. Um and and uh and then as I was uh getting ready to retire, I was convinced, and I tried to convince the PGA of America to take the Ryder Cup and share it with us and have it a three-man, three the US, Europe, and the rest of the world. Uh they would not do that. They wanted it themselves. So I created the President's Cup, which gives the international players a forum and also gives the opportunity for the PGA tour to expand itself worldwide. So this was all part of uh my vision of where golf could go. It wasn't just a U.S. little uh, it wasn't just a series of little US uh events in Memphis and Hartford and Chicago or wherever it was. Uh it's a global reach, which uh you see today.

Mike Gonzalez 5:46

So for the players that uh truly wanted to be global players, uh again, I'm talking back in the early days. There was some built-in conflict then, wasn't there, between the PGA tour wanting to promote and protect its product and its players uh and get the best players here as often as they can, uh, versus the guy that uh really did want to play in uh Asia and Australia and and and Europe in addition to his U.S. uh visits.

Deane Beman 6:16

There's a balance to that uh as we as we uh as the communication system uh uh the technology increased, the international uh values become greater and greater. So um we had very little flexibility a long time ago in uh U.S. players going overseas and playing, uh when in fact we needed them here to make our tournament successful. But as the global reach uh has expanded, I think the tour is much more lenient and and and we get value out of our players going internationally to play uh because part of part of our huge part of our income comes from that international reach. So we are again, everybody's winning. The players are winning, the tour is winning by allowing players to be a little more flexible and playing internationally, and the players are winning because they're getting money not only by go doing it individually on their own, but when they come back, they're playing for bigger money that we get from international rights fees. So everybody wins.

Mike Gonzalez 7:34

So let's uh turn our attention uh to some of the major challenges you faced in your 20-year term as commissioner, because it always wasn't a bed of roses. We can uh we can recite a litany of accomplishments during your tenure, but you also had to deal with some pretty tough issues, didn't you? Why don't you take us through uh some of the ones that stand out to you?

Deane Beman 7:56

Well, back early in in uh in the early, very early 80s, just as we were had uh had created the the brand of the PGA tour. Um and that wasn't created until the late 70s, early 80s. Again, uh the the name of the tournament was the of the tour was the Tournament Players Division of the PGA of America. That's not not a really good brand name. Um so so we changed the name to the PGA tour. Simple. Uh we changed the uh we had a uh look like a uh looked like a badge, uh what the logo of the tour was. It looked like the Union Pacific Railroad with a with a tournament player division on it, and we then created the golfer uh that you now see as the symbol of the PGA tour. It was all uh directed toward f future marketing, uh creating a brand, uh a name brand and creating a uh a visual brand uh so that as that as that became more and more famous, you could monetize that and add to the other things that television do, um but but uh to create additional income for the players so that you could so that you could afford to develop the senior tour, so that you could afford to to have a pension plan, so that you could afford to have higher prize money for the players. And uh it was all a long-term strategy to to uh uh develop golf on a global basis and to uh develop a marketing and television and marketing strategy uh that would uh that would support all of the things that uh would benefit the players. It was all about benefiting the players.

Mike Gonzalez 10:11

You must have faced some tests uh of the model. Um uh I recall vaguely, some of the top players uh threatening to perhaps even go out on their own, create their own deal. Uh take us through that experience.

Deane Beman 10:27

Well, early in the 80s, um it it became a um there was a real there was a real clash. Um I I can remember like it was yesterday, the players uh went to Memorial Tournament in uh Dublin, Ohio, and out of that came a letter signed by, I believe, uh 12 or 14 players, led by Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer, and Tom Watson, and uh and and and really led by their managers, okay, that basically said uh uh we do not want the tour to uh to uh uh endorse products. We don't want them to own golf courses. We already had the tournament players club, and and we're in the in the process of doing two or three more. We don't want them to own and operate golf courses, we don't want them to uh have commercial. Uh we want the tour to go back and just run tournaments like Joe Dye did, basically. And they wanted uh they did they didn't they wanted me gone and they wanted to hire somebody who just is great at running tournaments to be the commissioner. So that's that's that's what happened. They petitioned the policy board, uh uh wrote their name and signed the letter and basically said we uh all this stuff that Beaman's doing, we don't uh we don't agree with. And that's that's that's part of history. That's what happened.

Mike Gonzalez 12:18

So what was your initial reaction to that letter?

Deane Beman 12:22

Well my my reaction uh first of all, he didn't send a letter to me, they sent it to the chairman of the board. And he he then sent a copy to me. Uh I got it second hand. Um I I I looked at it and basically told uh Dale DeWint, who was chairman of the board, he was chair he was he was chairman of the board of Eaton Corporation in in uh in Cleveland, Ohio. And I told him that I said, um, you know, um this is not a this is not a business. This is a we're running it like a business, but this is not a business. The players own the PGA tour. If this uh is carried through, the answer is is uh I'm f I'm I'm out of here. Um and I negotiated a deal with Dell. I had two years left on my contract. Uh the current contract, maybe three. And I said, the tour does not want tournament players clubs. They don't want the marketing program, uh, they don't like the commercialization of what's happened. I said if that happens, the answer is we're going to drift back to where the tour was when Joe Dye ran it. Uh I'm not I didn't come here to do that. So um I built the Tournament Players Club uh and I asked the board uh for the my support for doing they agreed to let me do it, but they also said they were not gonna put a nickel in it. Not one dollar will they put in it. So I built the original Tournament Players Club with no money. They didn't put a nickel in it. I said if we I will do everything in my power to win this battle. But if we lose this battle, which I want you to know, uh we need to get lucky to win it. Uh you can have my contract and I own the players' club because I built it for nothing. And the tour didn't put in there, they don't want it, I want it. So he agreed to do that. He agreed to give me the tournament players' clubs. We had two or three at the time. And I agreed to give my contract for nothing if we lost. Well, um Dell said, he says, you know what, we can win this. We you know, we have corporate battles like this all the time. And I said, This is different. The players uh aren't minor, the players aren't minor uh shareholders, they are the tour, they own the tour. So I I went back and read the letter a dozen times, and whoever wrote the letter, whether it was Jack Nicholas's representative or whether it's Arnold's or whether it's Tom Watson's, they made a drastic error in about three words. Because if they'd only said, We as players do not want you to do this, we would have lost and we wouldn't have been able to do those things. But what they also said was, and added a couple little uh words that were the lifesaver of the tour today, that we believe you have exceeded your authority by doing what you're doing. And I said to Dell, I said, Dell, we haven't exceeded our authority. And I I pulled the original papers that were in our archives because they no longer existed because we had abandoned the Delaware Corporation. We were now a nonprofit. I pulled out the original incorporating documents of Delaware that I read in the first two months when I wasn't even commissioner and recited to him what those papers said, which was the tour could it said specifically own golf courses. It could license, it could sell its name, it could, it was specifically, as every document for a major corporation, it's the broadest thing in the world. Okay, you may never do it, but the authorization is there. And lo and behold, do you know whose name was on those papers? Jack Nicholas was one of the original board members.

Bruce Devlin 17:30

Interesting.

Deane Beman 17:32

So I got Jim Colbert, who was a board member at the time, and agreed with what we were doing. I got, I didn't want a personal confrontation with Jack Nicholas. I got Jimmy Colbert to take those papers and meet with Jack Nicholas. And it turns out Jack was gone coming to Washington, D.C. We weren't there anymore. But Jim Colbert got on Jack's airplane with him and sat down with him and said, uh uh, uh, and and he this is what he told me, he told Jack. He said, Jack, he said, uh, we want you to withdraw your letter. And Jack said, Well, why would I do that? He said, Well, because you've impugned the integrity of the commissioner, the entire board, and the corporate executives. And that and we had some powerful corporate executives. We had the chairman of Merrill Lynch, we had the chairman of uh Eaton Corporation, we had the chairman of Coca-Cola, we had all these chairmen of major corporations. He said, Jack, if you don't withdraw your letter, we don't have much money in the till, but we will spend it all to destroy your personal reputation with every corporation in this country, and you'll never get another contract. He said, Well, why would you do that? He said, Because it is authorized. You've impugned their integrity by saying that they have exceeded their authority. And he pulled out the papers and showed them that the written documents, original incorporation in Delaware, provided for all of these. It was not, it was not something that was uh done without authorization. And then went to the last page, and Jack said, Well, hell, who agreed to this? And Jimmy Colbert said, Jack, you did. He said, What? And he showed him the name on the written documents. And then that's when Jack went to Arnold and said, Hey, we got a problem. And they withdraw. They we never fought the battle. They withdrew, they withdrew this uh paper.

Bruce Devlin 19:56

You know something, Dean? You guys kept that very, very quiet because this is the very first time that I ever heard anything about that.

Deane Beman 20:08

Well, that's what happened. That's why they withdrew. They withdrew. They withdrew because J Jimmy Colbert threatened Jack and said, We'll do everything we can to restore. I don't think any major corporation will ever put a nickel in your pocket again because you have impugned the integrity of all these people who have served as the board of the PGA Tour, and we've never paid them a nickel. They've done it on their own.

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 20:39

That's a fascinating story, Dean. And it is, Dean. I suppose, Bruce, the players ought to have a Jimmy Colbert day after hearing this story, huh?

Bruce Devlin 20:48

Yeah, well, you know, like I said, uh this is the first time I've ever heard about that. Dean, one question relative to that.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Yes.

Bruce Devlin 20:56

From the day, from the day you got that letter until they withdrew, what was the what time frame was that?

Deane Beman 21:06

Uh well, Jack's tournament was in May, and uh the meeting was during Westchester, which would have been late May, early early June, maybe just before the US. It was only a matter of a couple weeks.

Bruce Devlin 21:20

Uh that's what I figured because I'll bet I'll bet uh I'll bet 90 n 98% of the players knew nothing about this.

Deane Beman 21:30

Uh well, we didn't we didn't want anybody to know about it.

Bruce Devlin 21:33

Right, I know that. I mean, it's remarkable.

Deane Beman 21:36

Winning that battle, I just want you guys to know, winning that battle cost me about a billion half a billion dollars. Because today the term players have a network of some 30 or 40 golf courses around the world are worth about a half a billion dollars. That's right.

Mike Gonzalez 21:54

And you could have been the owner. Uh well. Uh I think you really wouldn't wanted to win the battle though.

Deane Beman 22:03

Oh yeah, I listen, I didn't there was no question in my mind that uh that we needed to win that battle.

unknown 22:11

Yeah.

Deane Beman 22:11

But uh nobody knew what Jack's reaction to that would be. Okay?

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 22:16

And and not many knew how close the tour as we know it today was teetering on the brink.

Deane Beman 22:23

Well, nobody knows how lucky everybody uh that that cares about golf and cares about the tour and plays on the tour that whoever wrote that letter added those few words. They didn't need to add those words, they were just uh added, okay?

SPEAKER_04 22:45

Yeah, yeah.

Deane Beman 22:46

If the players had simply said, we don't want you to do this, we couldn't have done it if the players were against it.

Bruce Devlin 22:54

Yeah, because uh like you said, it's the tour's owned by the players. That's correct, yes.

Mike Gonzalez 23:00

Dean, uh uh uh one of the major things that happened on your watch was the ping litigation. And uh uh you may have to do a little educating for our listeners to take us back to those days in terms of what was the real issue, uh who initiated what, uh, how did it get resolved, and what's the implications on today's game relative to technology?

Deane Beman 23:24

Well, um the the ping litigation started with uh my my concern and a lot of players' concern about square grooves that it it changed um it changed the skills necessary to play golf. When square grooves came in and ping created the square grooves club, um there's no question that that you were you could put more spin on the ball and on the iron shots and particularly wed shots and out of the rough, uh it made a huge difference in the performance. I felt and we did our own um I'd say we did our own testing, it wasn't particularly uh sophisticated testing, but did our own testing and became convinced that what the players were saying uh that it that it changed the dynamics of play that was correct. And so we proposed to to ban square grooves. Simple. USGA would not do that. USGA um stood back uh because the USGA doesn't want the two or anybody else fooling with the rules, and that's a rule. They were literally uh almost on the side of Peng because we were we it was a big battle. And uh ultimately um we settled with Ping. Um our insurance company literally paid them a lot of money for settlement because they were they they if they they knew they knew what it was gonna cost them if they settled. They didn't know what it was gonna cost them if they didn't settle. Um and but but we we we lost that uh skirmish, but we won the big battle because in the settlement ping agreed that the tour as an entity had the authority to make its own rules. Okay. And um part of that was setting up a separate committee to look at those kinds of things that would not have players who might have uh conflict of interest because of contracts with many contracts, yeah, things like that. But we we actually uh we actually you know that our insurance company paid a lot of money, uh, but the tour came out of that with the specific authority from a manufacturer who agreed that the tour as an entity could make its own rules, that the manufacturer didn't control the rules. Oh, we so we we lost the battle and we won the war, okay.

Mike Gonzalez 26:45

The suit was brought by Ping in 1989. This subsequent settlement uh which, as you say, sort of codified the rules' ability to I mean the the tour's ability to set their own rules. That agreement happened when, Dean? Was that about 2010?

Deane Beman 27:01

Uh no, no, no. That happened. That happened uh before I retired.

Mike Gonzalez 27:06

Much sooner, okay.

Deane Beman 27:07

Yeah. Yeah, I retired in in 94, it's probably 90 92 or 93 than when that was uh when that that was uh uh finalized.

Mike Gonzalez 27:17

And was that power recognized immediately or was there a a time certain that it would take effect?

Deane Beman 27:23

Uh no, uh I I don't there was no time. Uh uh it was it was recognized, but but it was it was set aside away from the board to a special committee that would uh that would look at that. And uh and and I and I would uh let me give you a couple postscripts to that. Number one is uh my only regret for retiring is that the tour did nothing to follow up on that. Zero. I had I had uh uh I had contracted with a uh with a uh a a couple of folks to build super uh testing f uh equipment so that the unsophisticated tests that we did before could be uh more accurate and more definitive. So I was moving towards a specific program to ultimately ban those. Okay? People after me did nothing. Zero. Ten years later, the USGA started doing its own testing of square grooves. Their their uh uh testing uh expert told me once they tested them in a sophisticated way, it's the most provable thing that they've ever done. And ultimately the USGA required square grooves to be modified. Okay, they didn't ban square grooves, but they they modified them in a way that they weren't as pervasive as they were before. So the USGA ultimately agreed with what we were trying to do and ultimately said it was the most provable thing that they've ever done. Uh so so and and those original square grooves were uh were uh able to be used for a certain period of time.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

Yeah.

Deane Beman 29:40

But my my uh the the reason that I say that that uh when I retired, uh I wish I hadn't, okay? Because I never would have let 10 years run before something was done, and I never would have permitted what has now happened with the rest of technology and golf. I might have lost that battle, okay, later on, but I never would have abandoned that battle to try to protect the integrity of the way the game is played. Today, the way the game the game is completely different than when you and I played, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 30:22

Absolutely.

Deane Beman 30:23

It's a whole different game. And if if the USGA thinks that on short iron shots, in particular in shots out of the rough, that the original square grooves really altered the way game is played, what are they thinking about the new drivers and the golf balls that are being used that have altered every shot in game in the whole way the whole game is played?

Bruce Devlin 30:53

There's no doubt about it.

Deane Beman 30:55

And I and I would I would I might have I might have lost the job as commissioner as a result. I would never have stood back and not done tried to do something. And that's the only thing I regret about retiring when I did.

Bruce Devlin 31:10

Well, the USGA and the RNA have sat back now for 20 years and they're monitoring. What the hell is the what are they monitoring?

Deane Beman 31:20

I I don't know. I don't know what they but uh it is um it's remarkable to me, remarkable to me that nothing's been done.

Mike Gonzalez 31:38

Well, you've certainly answered the question that we were about to ask, which would have been Yeah, I was about to ask you. You know, if Dean Beaman was still running the PGA tour today and had continuously run it, would we be seeing a different game on tour? And I guess your answer is, well, if I'd have prevailed, we certainly would have.

Intro Music 31:56

Yeah.

Deane Beman 31:57

Yes, that's an accurate. I I I would have done everything within my power to have prevented what has happened today. You know what do you think would happen with baseball? Okay, what would you think of baseball if they allowed uh metal bats? Or bigger bats. And they would kill some pitchers before they do something. They they kill some pitchers, okay. And what what what would they do? What what what would the how would the game of baseball be if a pitcher could could uh work with a manufacturer and design a a a uh a ball that fit his best stuff? Okay yeah whether he was uh whether he's a curved ball pitcher or a fastball. What if he could what if he could change the dynamics of the aerodynamics and everything about the baseball so that it fit his best stuff? I mean, goodness gracious sakes. Um and the crime of it all, let me tell you the crime, and I call it a crime, the crime of it all is that the major organizations in golf, the USGA, the PGA of America, the RNA, um, they have said uh, you know, golf has picked up since in the last year or so because of the golf. Okay. But before that, everybody was scared to death about what's happened to the game of golf. Uh golf courses are being closed, less players, and they've all defined, they've all defined three things that have caused golf to not grow. And that is it costs too much, okay? And it's too hard to learn. Okay. The new equipment that is being out there today, used every day, cost uh enormously more than than equipment. If you matched uh uh the rate of inflation with equipment and what it is today, because everybody's all this super technology, and you know they changed something else, so everybody feels they gotta get rid of the clubs that they used to use for 10 years and now can use for 18 months because they got something new. The answer is a enormous cost. Because the organizations that run tournaments are trying to protect par, and they've gone from a nine or ten speed to a 12 and 13 speed green. It takes costs three times as much to maintain a 12 green and another eight or nine green, three times as much. They got to build new T's. When you build a new golf course, it's got to be 7,600 yards long instead of it used to be 68 or 67 for a championship course. That's money. That's cost. Okay? And when the average player, who this equipment doesn't help very much at all, plays those longer golf courses with faster greens, it takes them longer to play, and it's more difficult for them to play. So all of the things that those organizations say as damage golf, they've sat by and allowed to happen. And they need to do something.

Bruce Devlin 35:40

I agree with you, Dean. Thank you very much for that.

Mike Gonzalez 35:44

Yeah, Bruce and I have actually talked about maybe doing an episode if we can get somebody from the USGA and RNA on to educate the listeners on the issues they're wrestling with, but uh also give us a peek at what they believe is likely to occur. I don't know if we'll be able to pull that off or not.

Deane Beman 36:01

I'd like you to put an organization, uh, a group of people together that would teach them something about intestinal fortitude.

Bruce Devlin 36:12

Very good. There you go.

Mike Gonzalez 36:15

Let me ask you something that's a bit more of a current thing and and just see what uh uh your reaction to it is. This uh this new$40 million player impact program pool that was created uh to move the brand needle as opposed to uh shoot a better score.

Deane Beman 36:32

I I don't know much about that at all. I I I've read about it. Uh actually I haven't read about it, I've heard about it. Uh I never read any of the papers about it when it came out. Um so you may you may literally know more about it than I do. Um the the the you know the scuttle butt that I heard was because a couple of um uh folks with a with a pocket full of money were gonna try to create a uh a super tour with a few players and try to get these uh players to leave the tour to do that, or or maybe they thought they could uh hold a few events and the tour would still keep them as members. And uh, you know, I'm I'm just not into that. I don't understand all the ramifications of that. So uh I'm I'm not real helpful for to you on that.

Mike Gonzalez 37:29

Certainly seemed like a defensive move against the very uh move that you were talking about.

Deane Beman 37:34

Yeah, I I think it's I think it's a defensive mood, but it's another way to it's another way to pay players that are important to the game. Um look at it as a as a as a as a champions tour without having to play.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Okay. There you go.

Deane Beman 37:53

Okay. And and I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm not saying it's wrong, and and uh and and a player who uh who uh loses some of its uh his putting touch and and uh is not as proficient as he was before, but has contributed enormous to the game and still is important to the crowds that watch golf, uh it it very well could be a good idea.

Mike Gonzalez 38:20

So as you look back on some of the transformative contributions that Dean Beaman has made to the professional game over his 20-year career, we talked about uh many of them. Uh some of those we touched on slightly in terms of significantly advancing the tournament management, uh, establishing the players council, introducing the uh at the beginning of the players' championship, uh, adding the tour championship. You mentioned restructuring the the World Series of Golf. We could probably do a whole episode just on the Tournament Players Club.

Deane Beman 38:52

Interesting thing about the Tournament Players Club in the you know the stadium, the stadium golf course and stadium golf courses. Um we we we we'd uh started that project in 1979. Um in the early 60s, when uh I was playing amateur golf, I was being involved with a golf course architect named Eddie Alt in and working on a project in the eastern shore of Maryland, which actually never came about. We did the plan, but the developer uh never followed through. But while we were together, I I I uh happened to be a PGA tour event in Washington at the time, I believe it was at uh Congressional Country Club, and I went out to watch the players play, and I couldn't see anything, it was ridiculous. Everybody had a periscope. You know, that's the biggest seller. It's they sold more periscopes than they sold beer on the golf ball.

Bruce Devlin 39:56

There you go.

Deane Beman 39:58

I came up with this idea that a golf course for a tournament ought to be built with the fairways down and the greens down, and the areas surrounding should be up as a stadium. And uh and name and named the concept Stadium Golf. So we uh came up with some designs, Eddie Alt and I, and went to New York and sat down with Joe Dye. This is an early 60s, 61. Sat down with Joe Dye and said to Joe, hey Joe, we've got this idea. The USGA holds your national championships, the mass the open, the the uh the amateur, the ladies, you could have you ought to build five or six golf courses around the country as stadiums that take care of the spectators for holding all of your tournaments. And at the same time, they were just starting uh to do the USGA green sections. And I said, you could hold not only your events there, but you could do all your experimentation on grasses and things like that at your own facilities and own them. And you could rotate all your events around those events in the cities where you want to be. And it took him about three and a half minutes to say it wasn't didn't think much of the idea, and we let's go have lunch. So then so years later, 20 years later, when I had the job of uh taking uh the players' championship and make it into something special, uh, and it is special, uh I re-uh uh I I I took up the concept of stadium golf, and we developed that into the TPC at Sawgrass, which is the first stadium golf course. But it was uh it was 1961 when I came up with that idea.

Bruce Devlin 42:01

Interesting. Yeah, it is interesting.

Mike Gonzalez 42:03

The TPC uh thing, the way that came about, it's it seems like you dramatically overpaid for that piece of property, didn't you?

Deane Beman 42:11

Oh yeah. Well, actually, uh you know, everybody everybody talks about the dollar for that. We didn't pay a dollar for that. I I never uh I never let him cast the check. I wrote it down, handed it to him, and then took it back so I could put it on the wall. There you go. What are you most proud of? You know, that interesting question. Um what what I'm what I'm most proud of is is doesn't have anything to do with any of these programs that have created huge dollars for charity and for uh players. I'm I'm most proud that we've been able to um transform golf from a minor sport to a major sport and introduced the ability to raise billions of dollars for both players and local communities. But we've been able to do that without damaging the integrity of the game of golf. We've we've moved it into the area of big money sports without uh without losing uh very much of what golf stands for. When and golf and golfers respect the rules, they respect the rules officials, and they respect their fellow competitors, and it shows every day in their competition. And so we've been able to move golf into big money without having to give up those attributes that makes golf the best game in the world and far ahead of any other sport.

Mike Gonzalez 44:00

Let's give you uh not as a player but as a commissioner one career mulligan. Where would you take the mulligan?

Deane Beman 44:07

In retiring without uh uh solidifying uh the uh intrusion of technology that I believe has hurt the game. That that be my mulligan.

Mike Gonzalez 44:21

Yeah. The things you just related uh seem to me to be characteristics of the game that we'd probably like to hope would be preserved in the game, let's say in fifty years. And so are for for our listeners that perhaps are listening to this historic podcast fifty years hence, uh what would you hope the game would look like when they're listening to this in uh in fifty years?

Deane Beman 44:44

I would hope that they look at the game like it was back in the 70s before technology uh I believe that uh invaded the game and uh and has done nothing uh and has done nothing to advance uh the sport for the average player.

Mike Gonzalez 45:06

I'd just like to have you wrap up with uh reflecting back on how you'd like to be remembered uh both as a player and as a commissioner of the PGA tour.

Deane Beman 45:15

Well, I I I you know as a player, um uh I I'd I'd like to uh be remembered as somebody who was a uh fair competitor, but a competitor. Hopefully people uh would uh would look at me and say that uh regardless of your stature, uh with enough hard work you can excel. As a commissioner, I I generally look at things as how they could be, not as how they are. And I truly believe that the human mind is a goal-seeking mechanism, and if you set the goals and have the courage to follow those goals, that uh a high percentage of time you'll reach those goals. And uh I set a high standard for where I wanted golf and the PGA tour to be when I became commissioner. And uh I believe uh that the commissioners that have followed me, Fincham, and now Jay Monahan, have uh taken that foundation and have um eclipsed anything that I've done, and I'm proud of them.

Bruce Devlin 46:36

Dean, we just want to say uh again, thank you so much for being with us today. I know a lot of people are gonna get a lot of uh very interesting information from the podcast today, and Mike and I are thrilled to have you with us.

Deane Beman 46:52

Well, it's been my pleasure uh looking back over the years where they the tour has continued to progress and benefit the communities where the events are held, benefit the players. Um and and I think instilled in corporate America, uh mostly those uh corporate American companies who have supported the tour uh have found the value of contributing not just to their bottom line, but to the communities that uh make it possible for them to be successful. And that's the been the uh that's been the formula for the success of the tour. And I believe it's going to be continue to be the formula for success of every company. That you can't just be looking at your bottom line and how much money you make. It's how good is your product and how can you contribute to your community in making yourself successful.

Mike Gonzalez 47:55

Dean, it's been a pleasure having you today telling your story for the good of the game. We really appreciate it.

Intro Music 48:02

That's been my pleasure. Thank you.

Mike Gonzalez 48:06

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 48:28

It went smack down the fairway. When it started just like just smacked off line. It had it for two, but it left off line.