Hale Irwin - Part 7 (Senior Tour Majors)

In the seventh installment of our exclusive eight-part series with World Golf Hall of Fame legend Hale Irwin, we fast forward to the next chapter of his remarkable career—his unforgettable run on the PGA TOUR Champions. Hale reflects on turning 50 in 1995 and stepping into senior golf with the same fire and precision that defined his prime. In his own voice, he recounts celebrating his milestone birthday at a Wendy’s after a rain-delayed Memorial Tournament—and quickly pivoting to victory just weeks later.

Hale dives into his Champions Tour success, including his staggering 45 wins, highlighted by 11 straight seasons with multiple victories and a record-setting nine-win season in 1997. He shares the story behind his putting grip change at Walla Walla that led to a year-and-a-half of brilliance on the greens, and how rivals like Gil Morgan pushed him to reach new heights.

We revisit Irwin’s seven senior majors, including his dominant U.S. Senior Open wins and a 12-shot runaway at the PGA Senior Championship. He shares compelling stories of strategy, mental resilience, and even golfing with Sean Connery in celebrity events. Hale speaks candidly about how golf evolved with age—from burning ambition to deep appreciation—and how competition remained his driving force.

With insights into the camaraderie of the Champions Tour and the lasting impact of players like Bruce Devlin and David Graham, Hale paints a vivid picture of a time when golf wasn’t just a game—it was a second life. For fans of golf history and timeless storytelling, this is a masterclass from one of the game’s greatest.

Subscribe and listen as we approach the grand finale in Episode 8 of FORE the Good of the Game.

Transcript

Mike Gonzalez 0:15

Let's fast forward then to nineteen ninety-five. And you wake up one morning and you say, Man, I'm fifty.

Hale Irwin 0:25

Oh, yeah. We were at uh the memorial tournament at uh Neerfield Village. In fact, uh my family was up there, and we were gonna celebrate uh at the hotel. We had had a reserve room reserved, and we had a rain delay, and all this, and uh had to cancel that out. And so by the time we finished playing that day, it was late, it was dark, and we celebrated my 50th birthday at a Wendy's restaurant, which you know started in Columbus Ohio.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

And that's it was my 50th birthday party. But uh the uh it was a good week for me.

Hale Irwin 1:11

Um I won that week, I believe. Or did I? 45, 50, no, wrong, wrong, wrong year. Whatever it was, uh I always played uh I tried to take the tournaments that after 40 years old at the time, oh you're over, you're 40, you can't play anymore, but the term was getting better and better. There were getting more of them, and I think it extended the want for many of us to play longer and to play more. Uh and and I think gosh, I was still hitting the ball quite well. Uh at the age of 40, I I just thought, well, you know, it's just a number. It's just a number, and I feel good, but I I let it I let it get to me. And I may have said this in another discussion, but at the end of the season, and uh when I was 40 years old, I I was um really disappointed how I'd been playing. And I guess it was maybe the start at the end of the 1989, just to give you a kind of perspective of that. And and I had been playing okay, but since 40 I'd really not played very well. I'd hit the shots, I could hit the shots, but I wasn't putting numbers on the board that were commensurate with good playing. So at the end of the 89th season, I sat down and at my desk at home and I wrote down the tournaments I had won and what thoughts I could remember. Whether it might be alignment, whether it might be body posture, whether it might be tempo, maybe something that reminded me of what made me good once upon a time. And it started gelling. So once we started the the 1990 season, and just prior to turning 45 years old, uh, I could feel my game starting to gel. And uh so when we got into the uh the US Open at the old age of 45 years old, and I ended up winning. Well, it didn't surprise me because I, as I said, I was hitting the shots. I was capable, still capable, but I wasn't thinking well. And that jogged my memory to get back into what I was doing because as Bruce knows, you get into golf course design, you get into other activities, and you're taking a little from there and you're putting it over there, and now suddenly your your assets aren't being used as they were. And uh I just felt like it was give it one more shot here and and let's go. And then before you know it, it's 50, and you're out there joining the old guys like Bruce Devil on the then senior tour.

Mike Gonzalez 3:58

Yeah, that's true. It didn't take you long to win that first one, did it?

Hale Irwin 4:03

No. What I really wanted, because I was I was one of the players that and most players at that time did, they played the regular tour and went right on to the then senior tour. There weren't that many players that had success and still don't that might not do anything in that five or ten year hiatus, uh and then come to the champions tour because they kind of lost their mojo. They they lost some of that scoring technique. But I think uh I was one of those players that just played fairly well up until 50, and then because my birthday was in June, I was only going to play half of the the senior tour, the last half of the senior tour, and to get, quote, status. So back then you had to play both pro amps, which is right. I don't not disagreeing with that. But the top 10 or 15, whatever it was, Bruce, you might remember. I do remember had the choice whether you wanted to play one or both.

Bruce Devlin 4:58

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 4:59

And uh so I felt like, well, it'd be nice to have that choice. I ended up playing most of the time both pro amps, but it that was my objective. So uh uh, I think uh what was my fourth event or something like that uh up in Chicago. But it again, it it wasn't the the play is better out there than people think. Oh, you're 50 years old, you can't play anymore. One of the shockers I think for anybody is how much better the play is than you think it's going to be. And uh we've seen that with a lot of players that say, well, he'll step right onto the champions toward win. They don't do it. So the play is still good. I think the the guys out there are too veteran, they're too wise, they're uh they know what they're doing.

Mike Gonzalez 5:49

And they can still move the ball out there pretty well, can't they?

Hale Irwin 5:52

And they can. I think today's equipment has certainly helped that. Although I'd argue that now it might I can't hit the ball anywhere right now. I might as well go back to the old wooden heads and blow out a ball. Well, if I could, my I just want to say one thing about players like Bruce Davlin. They were so instrumental in getting the tour, what we see today, and where it started, they were so instrumental on helping that progression, helping it mature to the point to where players like me, when I came out in June of '68, it was in the midst of trying to separate the playing. There's a PG of America owned it. Separate the playing from the the greater bulk of the club professionals. And uh Bruce was one of those people that was in there in that mix that helped kind of pull that to where we got which ultimately came the PGA tour. So to players like Bruce and Dan Sykes and Mason Rudolph and Gardner Dickinson, and you know, some of those little Dale Douglas uh they were my friends, but more than anything, they were guys that I really looked up to because it showed to me what it took to be more than just a hitting a golf ball. Right. This was their business, this was their life, and they were dedicated to it. And then uh to guys like Bruce, I I I over the world.

Bruce Devlin 7:20

Hal, you're much too nice to say something like that. I appreciate it. One of the great things about Halo on the champions tour is that he started in '95 and all the way through 2005. Uh 11 years in a row, at least two victories in each year, which is pretty pretty special to go that many years and win at least twice a year.

Hale Irwin 7:45

Well, it was uh it was a lot of fun, Bruce. I think you you can you can introduce uh the business part of professional golf, and you can introduce the fun part. And once you get to the age where you start differentiating and and understand that differentiation, uh it was fun being out and competing with the guys that I had known for so long and and the newer guys coming up. And uh not too long ago, speaking of '97, I had a really, really good year in '97. I won nine times. But someone said, What happened in 97? I said, Well, you know, I was playing probably the best golf I've ever played, hitting the shots the way I wanted to. I had made a putting grip adjustment uh on the fifth hole at Hualalai, and I made about a 20-foot putt, and I didn't miss another putt for a year and a half because I just it just worked. But I thought, you know, there's something more of that. And and Gil Morgan had won six tournaments. And we had 32 tournaments. So Gil and I, just the two of us, won almost half the events. And I thought, damn, it was Gil. Gil was that factor that made me try harder. So I picked up the phone, I called him, I said, Gil, I just want to thank you for you know getting through it. He says, Yeah, we we had good years, didn't we? I said, You bet. And I think that's what you need. You need that push. And it it's never easy, but when you're being pushed by somebody else, then you extend yourself. And I I but those those are the things I think led to some of my successes was that I got to play against some of the guys that were my idols when I was coming up that were really instrumental in building the tour. And it was it was fun to be with them.

Mike Gonzalez 9:36

Yeah. Hey, Bruce, just for our listeners, why don't you recount some of the other uh accolades and accomplishments of Hale Irwin on the PGA Champions Tour?

Bruce Devlin 9:46

Well, he was uh how how long do we want to uh spend on this? Because he's got he's got a list that I've got here that's quite remarkable. Beginning in 1995, uh, as we mentioned earlier, 45 wins. Uh finished in the top three 44% of the times that you played, Mr. Irwin. As you said, nine wins in '97. Uh leading money winner, ninety-seven, ninety-eight, two thousand two, player of the year, same, ninety-seven, ninety-eight, two thousand two, and rookie in ninety-five, and then uh ninety-six, ninety-seven, ninety-eight, and two thousand and two, Byron Nelson Award winner, and two thousand and two and two thousand and four, the winner of the Schwab Cup. So pretty pretty fancy little record there, Mr. Irwin.

Hale Irwin 10:46

Well, uh, yeah, I'm I'm I'm very proud of all that, Bruce, and uh and and there are always reasons behind the press clippings and the success that people see. But for me, I think it was the and I I've alluded to this very often, is that the comfort level being with my contemporaries, being with gentlemen that that I grew up with, and I got to associate with them on probably a more personal basis than you do when you're when you're raising your family and you're traveling all the time. Now we were grandparents or nearly there. And it was it wasn't quite as uh hurry up and get to the next town because the champions tour plays two or three weeks in a row, perhaps, and have a week or two off. That's so you have a built-in uh time to be home. So I think it was uh finding that comfort level at at that age and knowing full well that I was going to play forever, but enjoy what I could at the time. And it just so happened that my game was really spot on. I wish I'd have played like that when I was 22 years old. Uh but I I think part of it was the maturation process. I I think for me it was knowing my family wasn't well off, knowing that uh uh I had some financial success, knowing that it was uh there wasn't a mystery around the corner like there was starting out. Uh you know, as we both Bruce can speak to this, certainly when you back then you didn't know what was around the corner. The boogeyman might be there. And it was uh it was difficult. But once you get around that corner and you see, well, okay, it wasn't quite as bad as I thought, and then the next corner is a little easier, and you you finally learn that uh you have to rely upon your friends. And um not only that, but the watching other players. I was I never had a teacher, but I'd I'd watch, let's say, Bruce. I'd watch anybody else. I'd watch Jack, I'd watch Arnie, I'd watch Lee. And everybody had their own way to hit a golf ball. Unlike today, gosh, yeah, I look at these kids today and they all swing alike. Yeah, but everybody then, you could 300 yards away, I could say, hey, there's the devil, there's Jack, there's Arnie, there's Lee. You could pick them out.

Mike Gonzalez 13:11

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 13:11

But each of them had their particular way of playing, but it's that moment of contact that is the real determinant. And how did they get to that moment of contact to make the ball do what it did? And that's what I tried to try to, okay, this is what their posture was good, or their grip was good, or their swing arc was good, or whatever it was. And I would try to incorporate bits and pieces of that into my game. So by the time it came around to me playing, it was a mosaic of swings. I could put it together and try and emulate what I had seen. And so it was, I've always looked at it as a learning curve since day one. And uh and I think that more than anything else helped me through the years.

Mike Gonzalez 14:00

Yeah. Well, we probably don't have time to talk about all 45 wins, but we want to cover the first, we want to cover the last, we want to cover all those majors in between. Yeah, you mentioned Chicago, and uh, of course, that first win was at the 1995 Ameritech Senior Open. That was at Stonebridge Country Club. And by the way, I think two or three years before that, when Mike Hill won, I actually ran gallery control out there. So I got to know that golf course pretty well.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

Oh, did you? Well, but but you never went to a gallery.

Mike Gonzalez 14:33

Uh you you just sort of eked it out that first win by eight over Kermit Zarley.

Hale Irwin 14:39

Well, like I say, is it's advantageous uh to come off of uh a fairly successful previous years to launch yourself right onto the champions tour or then the the senior tour. It's when you have that pause that you you haven't played, or that pause where you haven't won. You kind of take those tools of the trade, whether it be mental or physical, you kind of set them aside either wittingly or unwittingly, they they're not where they once was. You then you have to go look for them. But I was one of those people that fortunately I had had the tools of the trade right there with me and went right onto the senior tour with them. And it uh but I'll have to go back and say when I played my first VIN, I thought these guys are better than I thought they'd be. You know, this isn't they these are not knockovers. This is uh this is a real deal.

Mike Gonzalez 15:31

Yeah. Well, this this tournament then moved to Kemper Lakes, which you know quite well. You won it there in 1998 and 1999. It was surprising to look back at your record and see that 10 years before, when they had the PGA championship there, I don't think you played in that event, did you? No. The the year Payne Stewart won.

Hale Irwin 15:51

No, I did not. Yeah. Um I can't tell you why. Not that I I would if I could remember, but I can't even remember.

Mike Gonzalez 16:00

Yeah, it was a gap in your PGA record. I just didn't know if it was a scheduling thing or whatever, but uh um I saw that you played for years and years, then all of a sudden uh PJ National, Larry Nelson won, you didn't play. You played at Oak Tree when Sluman won, and then Kemper Lakes you didn't play.

Hale Irwin 16:18

So again, summertime activities, yeah, yeah. Um children going to school, whatever it was, and that that always precluded everything else.

Mike Gonzalez 16:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so Bruce, uh listen to this major record uh for Hale Irwin and in the on the senior tour. Seven seven majors, eight seconds, twenty six top fives, no missed cuts in the first 12 years on the senior tour in major championships. Amazing, you know? Yeah, quite a record.

Hale Irwin 16:58

Yeah, uh, I've got lots of ribbons hanging around here somewhere. I think it makes it makes uh maybe good press. Uh but and and I I don't mean to sound facetious about this, but we all enter tournaments to win. And how someone might ask you how many seconds or third or fourths are top this is or top that's I have no idea. No, no, yeah, you just don't remember because you're there for one purpose and one purpose only. And and I think the good Lord gave me the name Erwin. I R W I E-A Win. It's not Er lose, it's Erwin. So uh I think it was uh for me. Yes, I may have played well. Did I play well to win? Maybe, but it was somebody else's week. Yeah, and uh that's just kind of the way you have to ultimately look at it.

Mike Gonzalez 17:52

Okay, I've got to ask you this. You've been asked this a thousand times, I'm sure. You talk about names, hail S Erwin, and of course you mentioned your father being Spencer, but it it's really not uh for anything necessarily, I guess.

Hale Irwin 18:06

No, it's uh it's an initial. Yeah. Uh, from what I understand, my father was not real fond of the name Spencer for whatever reasons. Uh uh. And so I became S. And uh that's giving the government a whole lot of heartache because they keep asking me, what's the S for? It I don't have oh, it's what's it for? So you'll send me a driver's lesson. It's an initial with S being in quotes. Um but I think there are a number of people, you can go Harry S. Truman. I don't think there you go. Um not that I'm presidential, but I think there it's not necessarily a lot of people, but it's a bit of an anomaly not to have that middle name, just an initial.

Mike Gonzalez 18:50

So if you had your pick of all the S words on the planet, which one would you pick as your middle name?

Hale Irwin 18:55

Oh man.

Mike Gonzalez 18:57

Other than Superman.

Hale Irwin 18:59

Oh, I don't know. Kryptonite kind of took him down. Yeah, I don't know. I I would uh I don't know. Maybe the next podcast I'll get back to you on that one.

Mike Gonzalez 19:13

We'll have to be back a fourth time just to cover that one, huh?

Hale Irwin 19:16

Well, you know, you might if I use the word super, it'd have different it might be super dad or super husband or super friend, or uh I would want it to include other people.

Mike Gonzalez 19:30

There you go. There you go. There you go. I think Hale, I think uh Azinger would come up with swish. Swish. He came up with this. He and I can't Bruce, one of his buddies, he says, we came up with the key to the golf swing. It's turn, turn, swish.

Hale Irwin 19:53

Well, I'll have to think about that while I think about that. Doesn't sound like that's a very strong swing, though, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 20:02

We're like slunk.

Mike Gonzalez 20:05

Well, moving on, didn't take you long for the first major.

Bruce Devlin 20:09

Bruce, 1996, we're going back to PGA Senior Championship at uh PGA National, where you beat uh our Japanese friend, Isa Aoki, by a couple of shots.

Hale Irwin 20:21

Well, as uh you remember that that's always been a difficult course. Uh I know they've revamped it since then, but uh I when I qualified uh for the tour back in 1968, our qualifying rounds were held at PJ National. Um I I don't think it's quite the same golf course, but uh it was eight rounds over six days. We played 18 Thursday, 18 Friday, 36 Saturday, Sunday was off 18, 18, 36. Yeah. So uh having a little bit of familiarity with how the courses play, how the weather will affect your shots, etc., uh it was a course that you really had to. You could be aggressive on some holes, but you really had to be careful on some others. There were some of those holes that uh were really difficult, particularly the wind came up, because as we know in South Florida, if you get the wind up over 10, 15 miles an hour, it's it's hard. Tough because it's a really thick wind. Um so I think for me it was it was ball control, and that was a lot of water. You had to very be very careful. Uh not only I always like to say, okay, here are the here are the issues, here are the problems, but narrow it down to here's where my target is. And forget that there's water right and there's bunkers left and there's out of bounds behind. You forget all that because you have to find your target. And that's what I think I was able to do around courses like like that, because well, when you look out there, you say, Oh my gosh, look at all the sand, and oh, there's another water, and all. But you know, there is a fairway, and this ball is only 1.68 inches in diameter. Should fit in that fairway somewhere.

Bruce Devlin 22:03

Well, you must have loved the place because uh your second victory came at the same uh PJ Senior Championship at the PJ National. Uh a little bit easier the second time, Hal. 12 shots in front of Dale Douglas and Jack Nicholas. That was a beating to the field.

Hale Irwin 22:25

Well, it's very comforting knowing the last few holes got a lot of water on it.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

You gotta play around it still with it.

Mike Gonzalez 22:33

Yeah, that was that was rounds of 69, 65, 72, 68. Uh around that golf course. Did they call was that called the General back in the day? Do you guys remember that at all? They had the squire and the ring of bell with me. They had names for each of the four courses. And I thought the the the big course was called the general back then, but uh uh that's that's uh 14 under par, and as as uh Bruce said, 12 clear of the field. That had to be a nice walk down 18.

Hale Irwin 23:05

Very nice. Uh but you know funny enough, uh as comforting as it is, it's very odd. And I think as players, and Bruce will attest this, you don't want to ever feel odd out there. You want to feel comfortable moving forward. But now how do you move forward with a 12-shot lead? Do you dunk it in the water four or five times to still win? I mean, that it's the mystery, it's the negativity that eats away at you. And I think at any level of golf, particularly golf, at any level, that negativity kills you, particularly with the higher handicaps. Oh boy, it's off the charts.

Mike Gonzalez 23:43

Uh let's go back uh a year because I I just I I found this interesting. Perhaps uh it was fun for you. I I see that you played in the 1996 Lexus Challenge with Scotsman Sean Connery.

Hale Irwin 23:58

They got the trophy right in the hall right over there to show that uh we won. Um Sean was uh, as people will know him, maybe better, as 007, but he was a very keen golfer, very much enjoyed it, was a member at the RA, St. Andrews. Yeah. Um and when he was on the golf course, he was all business. But he was not one of those people as a Hollywood star, a stage and screen star. He wasn't uh uh the kind of a braggadocious kind of guy. He wasn't someone that wanted to stand out in the crowd. He just wanted to be him. And he was him, and it was such a pleasure playing with him because he was Mr. Golf. He was he was there to play golf, and and I thoroughly enjoyed his company because it was a uh a breath of fresh air with some of the other stars that you might play that had the the following and maybe even wanted the following. But for the most part, when you get on a golf course, you have to you you give up all that other stuff and you become you. And I think that's what I so enjoyed about Sean was I was expecting him to come out with his his little pistol in his pocket and you know driving his his car, but he just came out with Sean Connery. And uh and one one round we played with Kevin Costner, and I can't remember who his partner was. And you know, so you get uh you get to see these superstars in a time, a place where they're not on film, they're not on stage, they're not up there, they're golfers. And uh that's that's fun to see.

Mike Gonzalez 25:36

Yeah, and I think as as as seniors having these opportunities to meet these celebs, uh probably you were able to appreciate it even more so than when you were younger playing in things like the clam bake, which we talked about the last time we were with you, right? Oh, absolutely.

Hale Irwin 25:50

It's yeah, you get a greater appreciation because not that you've been through what they've been through, but you've been something that might be analogous to that. That you kind of have a feeling for what they might be doing. And uh if they were to take me and throw them on a screen or a stage and have to act, you're kidding me? Yeah, I couldn't do it. Well, it's now flip flip it around. You see, the normalcy that these people have is is terrific to see.

Mike Gonzalez 26:18

Yeah, yeah. So, Bruce, uh we go to 1998, three in a row in the PGA seniors championship.

Bruce Devlin 26:26

I'll bet he I bet he felt a little more natural though, because he only won by six this time.

Hale Irwin 26:36

Hey, they were invading my golf course. You know, I I thought I was going to get ownership after three.

Mike Gonzalez 26:40

You know, I know uh and you you beat a guy that that Amana.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Oh, yeah, wore one of these, right? Yeah, Larry Nelson. That's an old one there, Mike.

Mike Gonzalez 26:51

How about it? This is brand new, too. Never been worn. Yeah, never been worn.

Hale Irwin 26:57

Wonder whose head that was on.

Mike Gonzalez 26:59

I don't think it's ever been worn. I I really don't.

Hale Irwin 27:02

Well, there are a number of really, really good friends, uh, and I'm gonna call them friends, but a lot of good men that had that cap on. And Bruce knows Bob Goldby kind of started all that with the people at Amana. Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 27:18

Uh and uh great times there with Amana.

Hale Irwin 27:22

Well, it was again, it's one of those things that's there wasn't uh an agent out there to distribute. And if you want to call Bob Goldby an agent, go right ahead. But we know he was everything but an agent.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah, and true.

Hale Irwin 27:37

Uh but it he uh kind of managed that and it says, and I think it was uh fifty dollars a week. It was, yeah, fifty bucks a week. If you if you wore the cap, you got fifty dollars a week.

Mike Gonzalez 27:50

And then if you got you got on TV, maybe on the weekend it was a little bonus, wasn't it?

Hale Irwin 27:54

Oh, well, I don't think I ever got on TV. I never saw that bonus. You didn't find that bonus. But I remember you and and Bob would get you paid maybe every two or three weeks, kind of figure out how much you owed. And I didn't have two nickels to rub together. I had a sponsor, and anyway. But there was one week where I I wore the cap, but I didn't qualify on a Monday. And so I told Bob that. Uh he said, Well, what owe you? I said, Well, I played that week. I played, and then and he said, Well, you didn't play that week. I said, No, but I tried to qualify on Monday. He said, Well, that doesn't count. I said, What do you mean that doesn't count? And they said that it's only 50 bucks. I said, Bob, I need the 50 bucks. Pay me the 50 bucks. There was no fine print on this. Anyway, I got the 50 bucks, but uh it was it was an interesting time. George Forster. George Forster, George Fahrner, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 28:51

Was that a man that started off marketing genius by a man back then, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. Didn't didn't you? I I thought uh one of you guys said at one point that Cherkanian on the weekend wouldn't show you, you know, wearing that hat unless you were amongst the leaders. I mean, because he didn't want to give them free advertising. No, no, no. Wouldn't surprise me.

Hale Irwin 29:12

Well, I think Frank didn't want to show any other commercial, whatever it whatever it was, because he didn't want to give free airtime to whomever that was.

Mike Gonzalez 29:21

Maybe that was it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, uh a lot of memories, that that old Manahattan. It's come up on the show a number of times, believe me. Yeah. Uh so later that year, I guess, uh, we're back in 1998, uh, we're looking at major number four. This time you decide to win a different one. You win another USGA championship. So you're starting to rack them up here, having had three U.S. opens already.

Hale Irwin 29:44

Well, I think any championship's fun. I don't care what title it's got to it, but you know, again, you you throw the the put the major title on any of them and give it a little added extra incentive, I suppose.

unknown 29:59

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 29:59

Um but it it's still in retrospect, when I think back, yes, you you you're busting your butt just as hard, but do you have the same amount of oomph that you're putting into it that you did 20 years ago? Maybe you don't have that same oomph anymore, maybe it comes in a different package. You still want it, but it's not critical to your existence. Your existence now is moving forward as you're getting older in life. Uh and it probably is appreciated just as much, but maybe not as as exuberantly as you once might have. Um it it mellows things out, but uh it's it's maybe it's like taking a bouquet of flowers instead of smelling a whole dozen roses. There's only a few roses in there now, but you appreciate it more.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 30:51

Uh it's just one of those times that was very fulfilling because as a competitor, it matters little what the title is. It matters little what what you're playing for. It's it matters of how you perform in that that moment. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 31:07

And it was on a great track, so it's it's no surprise that a Hale Irwin would win at Riviera Golf Club.

Hale Irwin 31:13

That's right. Well, uh again, uh uh interestingly, we had uh I was playing with Ray Floyd and Vicenti Fernandez, uh what a gentleman he was from uh Argentina, uh had taken the lead. And Raymond had a putt at the 16th. So we both were on the 16th screen, par three and two, and one. And uh Raymond had a putt just outside mine, very similar line, and and he hit his putt, and I got behind it and watched it roll down there, and so I thought, well, it broke more than I thought it would. So I put mine out a little bit more and I made the putt uh to get at the time, I think, tied with with uh Vicente. And uh I hit a good putt at 17, didn't go in, so now we're playing 18, which is a a hard hole. These kids they make it look like well, they do, they hit wedges to it. Yeah, yeah. But uh, you know, we were hitting long irons into that darn thing at the time. But I I I believe I hit a four-iron second shot, hit it just about twelve, fifteen feet behind the hole, which is not a good place to be, but it was the back left. Uh had a pretty quick little putt going down the hill, and um, you know, I I tapped it and it just kept rolling and rolling and rolling and rolling. It finally rolled in the middle of the hole. But it was uh you birdie the last hole at Riviera to win the tournament, and I don't care who you are, that is a proud time. Yeah. And and then I thought, gosh, Vincent is such a good guy. You hate to take a victory away from him, but then again, you get selfish for a moment, and it's okay.

Mike Gonzalez 32:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, Bruce uh Bruce ran into him and uh and D. Vincenzo back in 1970, Bruce, in the World Cup, didn't you? Yeah, that's right.

Bruce Devlin 33:02

We did too. We played in I played with David Graham down there in 1970 in Argentina, and we I think we uh if I remember, I think we had a 19-shot lead going into the last round for the World Cup.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Oh my goodness. Yeah, and uh the devil and the dog, my gosh.

Bruce Devlin 33:20

We yeah, we were playing with uh Divin Sanson uh Fernandez, and uh I had to drive down the first hole sort of right center of the fairway, a little dog leg right. I get down there, my ball's in the tr underneath a tree. What the hell is going on here? So well, we knew what was going on, so uh for the rest of the round it was Caddy out front. Oh boy.

Hale Irwin 33:48

But what did you do there?

Bruce Devlin 33:49

Huh?

Hale Irwin 33:50

What did you do when were you playing alternate shot or best ball?

Bruce Devlin 33:54

No, no, no, no. We were playing individuals, you know. We had them all up, and uh David ended up uh he ended up being um individual winner. And then we won we won the team as well.

Hale Irwin 34:06

So what did you do with your ball?

Bruce Devlin 34:08

Did you uh I played to play it?

Hale Irwin 34:11

Because you you really didn't know how it got there. Uh well, I knew we know, but uh we know, but we don't know. Yeah, right, exactly.

Mike Gonzalez 34:20

Yeah, yeah, been there that the dog talks about flying down there in coach and flying home in first class.

Bruce Devlin 34:30

Yeah, I think we won fifteen hundred dollars.

Hale Irwin 34:33

Oh boy, isn't that something? But you know you stop thinking about you put the devil and the dog together, that's a heck of a team. Considering the the play they both were able to put together, uh that would be a very formal team in any event.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 34:49

Wow. What year was that? 70. 70, wow.

Bruce Devlin 34:54

Yeah. You were just a pop on the scene in those days.

Hale Irwin 34:58

Well, but but the dog he hadn't played that. Well, from I guess from what was what was the criteria? You were being chosen for Australia though.

Bruce Devlin 35:09

Yeah, correct.

Hale Irwin 35:10

Not for you not for US, so that would have been for US, okay. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 35:14

Yeah. But David probably would have gotten his start when? Bruce 67-ish or so, based on his age, or uh, yeah, probably, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 35:22

Yeah, he's around there.

Hale Irwin 35:23

Yeah. He'd be close to my when I started, maybe even maybe a little later. Uh 69, maybe.

Bruce Devlin 35:33

No.

Hale Irwin 35:34

Well, man, it might have been. Yeah, it might have been. I I don't remember him ever going through a Q school if he had to. Well, it doesn't matter because he he proved to be one of the better players on the VJ Tour at the time.

Mike Gonzalez 35:48

Absolutely. Well, you know what? We'll answer this question right now. You are almost exactly one year older than he is.

Hale Irwin 35:56

Yeah. That's what I was thinking.

Mike Gonzalez 35:59

Yeah. Yeah.

Hale Irwin 36:00

Yeah. He's a youngster.

Mike Gonzalez 36:02

He's a pup. He's a pup. A pup. Well, let's move on to 1999. We're now at the Ford Senior Players Championship at TPC of Michigan. Another close victory over an Aussie. Seven shots over Graham Marsh. Well, you got these easy walk.

Hale Irwin 36:20

I like that. I like the way you're bringing these up. Setting it up for a nice T shot down the middle. Yeah. Well, uh Bruce, I think, is familiar with that course. It was a pretty tight golf course, I think. To my liking, because you you couldn't hit a wavered T shot. You had to keep it really in play. It had enough enough issues out there to pretty good golf course. Yeah, you had to manage a game. You couldn't be ultra conservative. You had to go for it, but you had to be ultra smart about when you went for it and when you didn't, because there was enough water and enough uh double bogeys and more waiting for you if you got too aggressive. So yeah, I I like that golf course myself. It was uh it proved to be one of the better courses for me in my game. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 37:06

Yeah. Uh you picked up your second uh win at the U.S. Senior Open. Uh this was at the old course at Sauken Valley, and and maybe you remember the history of this place. Three courses, wonderful piece of property there. Uh was that the old Bethlehem Steel estate?

Hale Irwin 37:22

Is that what that uh Genesis? Yeah, I think it was, yes. Yes.

Mike Gonzalez 37:28

Yeah. And uh this one a little closer. This was uh only by three over Bruce Fleischer.

Hale Irwin 37:35

Uh well Flash came on the tour and I kind of he uh upset that rhythm that Irwin and Morgan had together. Now you had Irwin, Morgan, and Fleischer together. But uh Bruce, and I'm not gonna say he had the lead, but I remember very distinctly on the third hole, I think it was. I say I shouldn't say distinctly, but third or fourth hole. It's a par five that and I think he had the lead. Uh but it's very narrow second shot, and I I'd hit my drive and I put my second shot down in in play so I could maybe have a 50-yard third or something. But for whatever reason, Bruce went for the green, and there was trouble lurking down there, and sure enough, he I believe I made a four, and I think he made a six. Uh, and that kind of reversed the momentum. And I I played pretty well that day, and and he never did quite recover from that. But again, one of those kind of strategic uh choices you make that may have been a little too early in the round to try and establish your uh your dominance, if you want to call it that.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 38:45

Uh a little too early. If it had to be in the 12th, oh the 15th, oh yeah, maybe then, but that's too early in the day. And so he he gave up that momentum and kind of turned it over to me. And it was just a matter of making sure that I didn't do the same thing back to him.

Mike Gonzalez 38:59

Yeah. So I'm wondering, uh, based on what you shot, what that Monday morning meeting at the USJ looked like or sounded like. It might have been the Monday morning meeting right after Johnny Miller shot 63 at Oakmont. They said, no, wait a minute, what the hell we got here, a guy in the U.S. Open shooting 17 under. What'd we do wrong? Yeah.

Hale Irwin 39:20

Well, yeah, Johnny's round, I think uh the USJ would never admit it. But what we've you have to remember that that Saturday night, and Johnny was one heck of a player, don't get me wrong, and he was as good an iron player as there was out there. But we had rain Saturday night at Oakmont, and that softened the greens to where he could take those irons and throw darts in there.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 39:42

Which he did. And then he made the putts, you know, to his great credit, he took advantage of all that. Yeah. But I think from the USJ's perspective, they said, uh, we don't want to see that happen again, rain or no rain. Hence we got the massacre at Wingfoot the next year.

Mike Gonzalez 40:00

Which we've talked about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh 65-65 on the weekend uh in that second U.S. Senior Open, which gave you, I guess, your fifth USGA championship, which puts you in pretty select company. You look at all the golf greats and the people that have won the most, uh, including Nicholas and Tiger and Joanne Carner, to be up there with five USGA championships, which means that when you go to Far Hills, New Jersey, and you go into that nice room they've got with all the championship boards up there, Hale gets to walk in and see his name five times. Yeah.

Hale Irwin 40:37

Well, it's funny enough, you you as you say, Michael, you you walk in there and I, I'll speak for myself, I was overcome with the history in the place.

Bruce Devlin 40:47

They did a beautiful job.

Hale Irwin 40:48

And and you look up there and you think, uh I may be okay in what I did, but man, look at these other people. This is uh overwhelming. Uh that you're just uh just one little drop in the big pond. Uh but you're a drop, but you're there's a pond out here, and there's some really interesting records and individuals that have gone into building the game of golf to where we see it today.

Mike Gonzalez 41:17

Yeah, yeah, it's uh it's a great experience for those that haven't done it. Uh and uh beautiful. Uh quite impactful. You know, somebody we talked with somebody recently about uh the USJ Museum and and all the stuff they have there. Well, as you know, they probably can only display about one percent of what they actually have, right?

Hale Irwin 41:35

That's right. And well, between the USJ Museum, which is uh really fantastic, and the uh the um museum down in Pinehurst.

Mike Gonzalez 41:46

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 41:49

People, you gotta go look at both of them. Yeah, they are both terrific, really, really interesting. Uh and I I think it's uh it behooves all of us in the game of golf to understand what it was like back then. Not just in the United States, but around the world. We talked about the open championship earlier. What we haven't talked about is say golf down under where Bruce came from. There's some been some great golfers. Kel Nagel, I remember Kel being one of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Ever. Uh Jim Frree, uh, you know, guys that uh may not be on the the tip of your tongue, but to us that were coming up then they were Thompson. Yeah, yeah. Uh you just got guys that uh really built the game uh from the ground up. And uh it's all there to take in.

Mike Gonzalez 42:41

Yeah, you know, you you mentioned the the uh the new World Golf Hall of May Museum, which was recently uh uh relocated and uh opened. Uh we ran into you down there in back back in June. That was part of the U.S. Open uh uh week, but it was also the induction of uh several great players, including Sandra Palmer and Podrick Harrington and and several of the LPG founders who had not yet been previously inducted. What did you think about the way they they did that place and the way they organized it, which is you around the guys from your and and and ladies from your era, right?

Hale Irwin 43:18

It was uh I was very impressed. I think they really did a good job in it. And it they've allowed room for growth. That's what I like, is that uh let's say what what maybe I have contributed down there thus far, I can add to that, and they can add to that. Uh in it up maybe for those that are have passed, it's up to their families whether they want it back or they they can spread it around some more. But I think the the historical significance of both places is you've just got to go. You care anything about the game of golf. And I'm knock on wood, I've been able to see both places, and and I wouldn't rank one over the other because they both have such a uh a prominence. In the game of golf, that uh it is. I find I'm a bit overpowered when I go in there. It's just uh you get insulated in your own little world and you see your clubs and your trophies, and then you get down and you think, wow, there's a lot more going on here than you ever thought.

Mike Gonzalez 44:15

Yeah. And uh kudos to Mike Juan, who runs the USGA, to Hillary Cronheim, who is responsible for the museums and preserving the history of the game for the USGA, and then of course Mike Trostel, who's got specific responsibility for that new museum. They've all done a wonderful job.

Hale Irwin 44:30

They have. It's been fantastic.

Mike Gonzalez 44:33

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 44:54

Whack down the fairway. It went smack down the fairway. Then it started to slice just smidge off line. It headed for two, but it bounced off nine. My caddy says long as you're still in the state, you're okay. Yes, it went straight down the middle, quite away.