Connecting Minds Episode 11

Ailish O’Neill, National Education & Training Manager, NOSP

Useful links:

List of counselling services available through PCHEI: https://www.pchei.ie/index.php/students1/student-counselling

USI Mental Health Website: https://mentalhealth.usi.ie/ 

USI Mental Health Social Media: https://twitter.com/MentalHealthUSI 

Sources of Help & Support for your mental health: https://mentalhealth.usi.ie/i-need-help/help-in-a-mental-health-emergency/ 

National Office for Suicide Prevention: https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/mental-health-services/nosp/

Information on the different rungs of suicide prevention training: https://mentalhealth.amle.ie/2025/03/10/suicide-prevention-training-are-you-trained/

Information on times/dates/locations of in-person suicide prevention trainings: https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/mental-health-services/connecting-for-life/training/upcoming-training/

This transcript was automatically generated and lightly edited for context. Any transcript errors should be notified to mentalhealth@usi.ie

SPEAKERS

Sarah Hughes, Ailish O’Neill

Sarah Hughes (00:01)

Hello and welcome to episode eleven of Connecting Minds, the student mental health podcast. Today we are going to be talking about suicide prevention training and I'm delighted to welcome Ailish O'Neill, National Education and Training Manager with the National Office for Suicide Prevention to talk to us today. Hi Ailish, how are you keeping?

Ailish O’Neill (00:19)

I'm great, Sarah. Good morning. How are you today?

Sarah Hughes (00:21)

Not too bad, thanks. So maybe to give people who don't know you a little bit of a chance to get to know you, maybe could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your role and what your role entails?

Ailish O’Neill (00:23)

Good. I can, of course. So I work, Sarah, with the National Office for Suicide Prevention. So who is the National Office for Suicide Prevention? So we are an office, we're a function within the broader HSE. And we have responsibility for implementing Ireland's national, we have a national self-harm and suicide reduction strategy. So that's an all of Ireland, it's a cross-government strategy with all of the government departments have signed up to. So our office is responsible for implementing that. And then my role, so there is a whole range of objectives and actions within that strategy. And there are a number of key ones around education and training. And so my role within the office is to operationalize that education and training brief.

And so I suppose to support me in my work and the work that I do, I work to an annual education and training plan. So that kind of sets out the key objectives and the key work that we would do. And I suppose when we think about the work of the strategy, you know, there's lots of different, I suppose, levels of work. There's lots of strategic work. There's lots of operational work. And what education and training does, that's the real tangible bit. So that's the bit for everyone in the community, people in different organizations, people working across different professions. That's the piece that anybody can lean into. That gives them the opportunity to think about, OK, so when we think about suicide and we perhaps that's not something that we would think about unless we're forced to think about it. 

But if we think about the topic or the area, you know, where do I learn information on it or how do I talk about it? And I suppose that's what our education and training function is all about. And then my role in the office is working with a whole range of stakeholders from yourselves, for example, in USI, through lots of government, different departments such as Department of Defense, Department of Education. work closely with an Garda Síochana with the different first responder groups. And it's all about identifying how we can build a capacity of those particular individuals to work in this space. What's the policies? What are the strategies that are implemented locally? So yeah, kind of a broad sweep overview of what I do.

Sarah Hughes (03:09)

Yeah, look, is quite a broad remit that you have. And I think something really interesting that you mentioned there was that, you know, the breadth of different groups of people who are involved in suicide prevention and that kind of thing. And I think it's possibly a bit of a misconception that's out there that, you know, that's limited to people like the guards, like people in health care and, you know, who are working in these areas. And I know just from working with yourselves in the National Office for Suicide Prevention that there is a sort of a different approach that you kind of like to take, which is that suicide prevention is everybody's business. Could you maybe talk a little bit about what that means?

Ailish O’Neill (03:56)

Sure, of course. So I remember when I started in the National Office for Suicide Prevention and it was new to me. I would have come from a background more upstream, more around health promotion. And I remember somebody saying to me, well, there isn't a psychiatrist on every corner. There isn't a psychiatrist in every home, but there is a human being in every corner and there is a human being in every home.

And so I suppose when we think about you, you've just said it there. If we were to leave the responsibility of suicide prevention solely to the healthcare profession, we miss a huge opportunity because where people interact, where they live, where they grow, where they go to work, that's where we build human interaction. That's where we build connection through our family and through our friends.

And who knows us better than our family, than our friends, than our work colleagues, the people that we meet day in and day out. And so if we meet people day in and day out and we've really close relationships with people, we'll notice, we may start to notice changes in people or we may start to notice a change in terms of what they are saying to us or how they're communicating about things. as humans and through our relationships, you know, we're very alert to those. We can see those changes. And so when we talk about suicide prevention being everybody's business, what we want to do is we want to build the capacity. So we want to build that competence and that skill set of the everyday person to know that if I'm really worried about my colleague here beside me and like they're saying something or they're perhaps they're presenting in a different way that I know that I can lean into a conversation. So I can maybe like I can talk to them and I can explore a little bit more around what's going on for them. 

And then I suppose, you know, when we talk about suicide prevention being everybody's role, really the end goal there, Sarah is we want to build the capacity of that everyday individual to know how to have a conversation if they think, okay, like I am actually really worried about this person. you know, this person is talking really negatively or they're just saying stuff that, you know, isn't, is out of character for them. For the person to know, well, what, what should I say or what should I do in those situations? Because that's the everyday interaction, right? It's, it's not going to be with the mental health professional. You know, this is long before you get to that piece or the first responder who might be working with that person or the guard. This is that everyday space. what's my role in that space? 

I suppose that's the work that we do. It's trying to build a confidence and a competence in the population to understand what their role is in suicide prevention, but not just what their role is, but giving them the skills, giving them the language, giving them the confidence to be able to lean into conversations on the topic of suicide. I mentioned there, we have an education and training plan, but in that education and training plan, Sarah, we have a lovely, you have seen it, we have a lovely pyramid. And we talk about everybody as a gatekeeper. So every kind of everyday person out there, we're all gatekeepers. And we may be what we call an emergent or a designated gatekeeper. So designated gatekeepers are who you're talking about there. It's our first responders. It's our mental health professionals. It may be our teachers. People who we know as part of their role, they are likely to come across somebody in suicidal distress. But if we move to the bottom of that pyramid and we're looking at our whole population and we're looking at our communities, we would describe everyday individuals as emerging gatekeepers. So what does that language mean? That language means that we're every day, we're alert to what might be popping up for somebody. We we're alert to perhaps changes or how they might be talking or how they might be presenting. So just as part of our everyday interactions, we can see and hear and observe things. And as gatekeepers then, what's our role or how do we lean into those spaces?

Sarah Hughes (08:49)

I think a really important bit that you've touched on there is that element of feeling confident in knowing what to say in those conversations because a number of years ago we collected data from students and one of the questions we asked them was around being a supporter to a friend who's going through a tough time and most people do want to be a friend but didn't really feel sure how to be there in the right way to have the confidence in that moment and I think it's one of the reasons why it's really important for us in USI to encourage as many students as possible to get trained because like that you in being part of that emerging population it's always great to go and get trained after an unfortunate situation but isn't it better to have the skills before like maybe you never need to use them but wouldn't it be great to have them and not need them then the other way around.

Ailish O’Neill (09:47)

Look, absolutely, Sarah. I suppose, you know, you've landed on it there. mean, one of the biggest myths that we have when we think of the word suicide or we think of the topic suicide is and one of the biggest fears and it's a very real fear and it's a very real anxiety for people is if I mentioned the word suicide or if I say the word now, I could be the one who puts the idea in somebody's head or now I could make the situation worse. So what do we know about that? So if somebody is thinking about suicide, so if that's something that is actively present for that person, that can be a very scary and a very lonely and isolating place for that person. 

And so they are not going to have the confidence, the space, the headspace to openly communicate that. So when somebody externally asks somebody about suicide, if they are concerned, you know, if they've observed different situations, different things, if they ask clearly and directly and use the word suicide, what that does for the person who is thinking about suicide is that changes it because now suddenly somebody has external to them, so external to their head what's going on in their mind. Somebody externally has said the word. So they've opened up the conversation. They've given that person permission to say the word or to talk about what it is that they're experiencing. So that if there is one message that we can really get clear and really help people to understand is that by asking about suicide, you're not going to plant the idea in somebody's head. If they're already thinking about it, now you're opening up the door and you're giving them permission and you're inviting them to have a conversation about it. 

If they haven't thought about suicide, asking about it isn't going to suddenly make that an option that that's going to be a case of, no, that that's not something that that's in my head or that's I'm I'm not there right now. And it's, again, it's also helping people to understand that. So it can be really challenging for people to think, why, why would this be an option for somebody like why, why suicide? And what we know is and what we know from listening to people with their own lived experience. even just only two weeks ago, I was doing some work with a lived experience expert panel and they were talking about two of the lived experience experts were talking about how they didn't want to die. So they didn't want to die, but they could not see for them. They could not see a way to end the pain and the suffering that they were experiencing. 

And I think quite often, you know, when we think about suicide, if we, if we try and shift how we view it. So it is about that person is in such extreme pain or suffering and they want that to end. They want that pain and that suffering to end. And they don't see any other way out, Sarah, other than ending their life. So when, when somebody asks somebody, you know, is this something that you're thinking about? You're you're you're breaking down now. You're starting to break down a barrier and you're opening a space for a conversation. And look, that that can be really terrifying, like that can be, you know, that can be a really scary experience. But I suppose what we would always say in terms of our

suicide prevention training is your role here is to be with that person and to listen. You you want to listen and you want to understand, you want to give them now a space to communicate to you. Why? Why is this something that is present for them at the moment?

Sarah Hughes (14:27)

And look, I get that that could feel for somebody who's never had that conversation before. I can see how it would be possibly a very kind of initially scary feeling conversation. But I feel like in saying the sentence out loud, have you been thinking about suicide? There's lots of other unspoken things that are coming along with that. Like, I know that that might be scary for you, but I'm here with you.

I am a safe person to talk to, you are not alone. There's lots of other more really powerful messages that come along with saying that sentence out loud. And I think, look, we'll get to talking about the specific types of training that you guys offer in a minute, but the one bit that I really love about the Let's Talk About Suicide training is that, like understandably, for somebody who's never had to ask that question out loud before, when it comes to it in the moment if they've never said it, can be really really hard. So the fact that the training gets people to practice saying it out loud so that they're used to even just how the word suicide feels to say out loud. I think that's a really really powerful thing that is part of the training and will help to build people's confidence in having these conversations as well.

Ailish O’Neill (15:44)

Yeah, think, I think you've, you've again, you've just landed on it there, Sarah, like we, so as a society, like as a, we, we, don't talk openly, like we're not comfortable with the word. And like, there's lots of reasons for that. mean, up until 1993, suicide was a crime in Ireland. that like 1993 is, it's not that long ago. You know, there's, there's plenty of us walking around in Ireland today who were alive and kicking in 1993. So, you know, so as a society, the vast considerable proportion of the population have grown up with the understanding that you like, we don't talk about it like it's a sin, it's a crime. 

And then you have a population or a generation who's growing up behind that and behind that again, that obviously that's been the understanding or that's been the communication. So when you don't talk about something or when you don't, you're not comfortable using a word, like you're dead right. You know, so now suddenly I'm, I'm landed in a situation perhaps where I'm really worried about my friend, like really, really worried. Maybe they're saying things that like, that setting off alarm bells for me, but like I'm going, I'm not going to actually say suicide. Like I'm not actually going to say the word.

So it is really important that we give people spaces to understand one, why it's so important to say the word and to give people spaces to actually just use that language to say that word. know, like I can see, I can see you're struggling. This is what I'm seeing. This is why I'm so concerned about you. you know, this is why I want to ask you, like, are you thinking of ending your life? Are you thinking about suicide?

That's very confronting. But I suppose what supports us in that and supports us maybe in practicing or using those words is the difference it makes for the person who's in distress. Because now it's out of my head, right? Like it's not just in my head that I'm thinking about it. ⁓ they've actually spoken about it now. They've used the word. it becomes less ambiguous, like it becomes less of that elephant in the room. It's actually, or are we actually going to have a conversation here? Like, are we actually going to have a conversation around this topic, around how I'm feeling? And yeah, like that's it. And I suppose you've mentioned, let's talk about suicide there, Sarah. So let's talk about suicide. I mean, what we really recognize and particularly, I think when COVID came around is the value of the online learning space.

Look, nothing can beat people coming into a room and having a conversation and, and exploring these really difficult topics. But, people are busy, lives are busy. So, you know, I suppose from our perspective in the national office, we recognize where we need to give people an opportunity to explore this space online. And I think for anybody who's listening to this particular podcast and you know, they're thinking, gosh, I don't want to go into a room and I don't want to talk about this, you know, but look, okay, it sparks something in me. Let's talk about suicide. Like it's an online 60 minute training program. What it does is it starts to bring you into the topic. So it starts to discuss the topic of suicide in a very gentle way, because I suppose, you know, the whole piece around any of our work in this space is

We want to support people to lean into the space. We don't want to paralyze people or we don't want to instill further that fear or anxiety. So it's all about gently introducing people to the topic and supporting people to understand why it's okay to talk about suicide and why it's okay when you're worried about somebody to talk about suicide. And I think, you know, even just chatting to you now, like, and I've been so privileged, so privileged to sit in rooms with people who have shared their stories and shared their lived experience. 

And every time, you know, when I hear people talk, like they talk about how when somebody just stopped, listened and asked, like the difference of actually when people just asked, you know, is this where you're at? are you thinking about suicide? But the difference when they stayed present with them in that moment and really looked to understand. So so why like why what's happened for you? What's going on for you that that this is this is all you can see right now. And they that person, they can't see a way out.

But you, you might be able to see a way out for them, but they're in that space where they're their suffering is so great. So having that opportunity to have that conversation can be literally, literally life changing. And let's talk about suicide. I mean, that's exactly what it does. It takes you as a learner through the steps. So like I'm concerned about somebody. OK, right. I'm worried about them.

So how do I have a conversation with them? Okay, so now I am concerned that okay, perhaps suicide is an option. How do I even ask that question? So how do I do it? So it takes you through that. Like, how do you ask the question? How do you talk about suicide? And then if the person says, yes, like that's massive for people, Sarah, you know, so if the person says yes, whoa, like now what do I do? Like now, now is it all on me? And I suppose really what our training does then it's about supporting that person to understand what your role is in that moment. If a person says yes, is to listen and to understand why it's not about rushing in, trying to take over the situation because then that that person's lost control again. You know, it's gone. They don't they don't have any control. So by,by being present and seeking to understand why is suicide an option for you and like really hearing and validating what that person is experiencing. Then suddenly you're creating this connection with that person. So that sense of isolation that person may have been experiencing.

You're not, it's not nothing miraculous is going to happen. But what you're doing is you're chipping at that now, because now you're starting a connection where that person is opening up to you and you're hearing, you're listening and you're understanding. So that's the role when somebody says yes for you as just an everyday person. That's the piece. And then what you're working towards when you're giving that person a chance to talk about it and to, I suppose, explain and to articulate what they're experiencing is to try and support that person to get help because they, in their head, they just can't see that right now. It's, know, like we can't even understand what they're experiencing, but we're giving an opportunity to hear it and to listen and to validate.

I mean, one of the things that you'll see in, let's talk about suicide in that training is, we talk about the importance of like that empathetic response and validating. And so that's really trying to help people with that fear and that anxiety that they may have if somebody says, yes. So it's about supporting them. So if you can stay in that moment with that person and hear and listen what's going on for them. Build that connection and then around, how can we signpost you to support and what's working with the person to ask them, you know, what do you think would help you or who would you like to talk to or what would be a helpful first step for you? You know, it might be a case of will I go with you to the GP or will I stay with you when you while you make a phone call to perhaps to a support line. 

You know, but it's about asking that person, you know, what what can I do to help you in this space as well? So, so so really, I think, you know, for for that gentle introduction, helping people to understand, like, so we talked, we all have a role in suicide prevention. But how actually what is that role and what does that actually mean? Like when we say that, or let's talk about suicide, that online program breaks it down for people to help them to understand what actually, what does that mean? What is that role?

Sarah Hughes (25:20)

Yeah, and I think even when we get to the other levels of the training, you know, the safe talk and the assist, I think it's really important for people to understand that we're not asking anybody to step in and be the lifesaver. Like you're just having those conversations, you're holding space for that person and you're helping them to figure out what the next step is for them to get help from the people whose job it is to do that level of thing we're not like we're not asking people to, you know, become the superhero swooping in to save the day. I mean, it could be that in the long run, you start the process of saving a person's life, but it's a conversation is all we're asking people to be able to feel comfortable to have here.

Ailish O’Neill (26:08)

Yeah, and that's actually that's such an important point because I think the anxiety that people have is, well, now it's my responsibility. So it's my responsibility now to keep that person safe. And I think you've just said it there, Sarah. Like, we can't take on the responsibility. But what we're doing is we're just creating these holding spaces. We're interrupting perhaps the the thought process or the pattern of thought that's there. And we're just giving a space to maybe think about it differently and talk about it differently. And I think one of the things that we would be really clear on, and I'm not a, like, I'm not a mental health professional is that that's that the mental health professional is a very specific key role.

There is the understanding would never be that you were expected to take on that. You couldn't. You couldn't take on that role. It's like, as I said earlier, you know, there isn't a psychiatrist in every corner, but there is a human being on every corner. And this piece is around that human being connection. And, you know, we might think, ⁓ well, does that make a difference? And that's what we hear all the time from our lived experience experts is having that human connection, having an opportunity to actually be heard, be heard and listened to. you know, there is that distinction, isn't there? It goes back to that piece of we have one mouth and we have two ears, you know, but that it really is about practicing that it is about, right? OK, I'm here. As you said, you're just holding a space. You're allowing the person to talk.

And I suppose what can be challenging, Sarah, is that, you know, it's and this is human nature. It's about us reminding ourselves that there's no judgment here. Like we can't offer a judgment. Like that's not our role. That's not our space. It's about empathetically listening and validating what that person is experiencing. And that is as far as it goes. But that can have a hugely positive impact on the person who's in distress. And that's the bit that we need to hold onto. And that's the bit that we know and that we hear from lived experience experts all the time.

Sarah Hughes (28:53)

I suppose even if it was a case that you had this training and you came across somebody that you didn't know, you're still not going to have that conversation unless you care. So having that conversation, it's showing the person that somebody in the world cares enough about them to have this hard conversation with them, which in and of itself can, on a much much smaller level, you hear people talk about, you know, they were having a really bad day and then somebody on the street smiled at them and it made a difference to their day. It's the same kind of theory just on a much bigger, more impactful level really, I suppose.

Ailish O’Neill (29:31)

Yeah, yeah, I think that's really fair to say. And, you know, we talked about it there at the start of the conversation that our first responders are really key in this space because, you know, we may be coming across as individuals or as first responders across people, of course, that we don't know that are in distress. And we know there's lots of different community groups who work in different spaces as well.

But they all have the same thing, Sarah. It's all about having the steps, the understanding around what are the steps that I'm taking here. Understanding why am I leaning into this conversation and understanding what my role is in terms of this conversation, you know, and it does come back to like, it just, it's like you say, if somebody smiles at me on the street, like that's human connection, isn't it? Like that's somebody, ⁓ they notice me or they took that moment and on a different scale. Absolutely. But it is, it's about I'm connected with you right now and I'm hearing you and I'm listening to you. 

And one of our lived experience experts, it just comes to mind now who features on, so on Let's Talk About Suicide, that the online training program that you mentioned there, Sarah, we have lived experience experts who shared their stories. And one of the girls talked about how she was having a really rough time, like a really, really rough time. And she was having her appointment with her. She was meeting her psychologist. She was in college and it was one of those, you know, those days in college where you're lugging the bag around and you're just, yeah, you're just miserable anyway, even if you're the best of your health. And it was just a really, really tough day. And she said, she, she went into the room. She describes it really vividly. She went into the room and she just put her bag down. She just slumped into the chair and she's, know, just not, just not able to cope with what was going on for her.

And it wasn't her regular psychologist. There was actually a trainee there that day. And she said she can remember so distinctly, like she was sitting beside her and she said to her, I'll just call her Sarah. And she was like, you know, hi Sarah, how are you today? And she was just like, yeah, yeah, fine. You know, when she said like her whole body language, et cetera. And she said she remembers so that, that, the other psychologist, had a book and a pen in her hand. She'd a copy. And she said, she remembers distinctly, like she, put it down on the ground and she turned around to her and she was like, no, Sarah, like, how are you today? Like I, I can see like you're not, like, tell me what's going on for you today. And she said, she just remembers, wow, she, she actually really wants to know how I am today.

Like she really, she really wants to, to hear how I am. And that was really powerful for her. You know, that, that, interaction had a lasting impact. know, she, she still talks about that. And I suppose the thing that we have to, you know, if we can remember as well is like, if somebody discloses to us that, that they are thinking about suicide or they are in suicidal distress. Like how we react to that can influence the pathway that that person follows, you know, so their, their road to recovery, it can influence that because if we can stay present with that person and hear, and as challenging as it is, try not to go into that panic mode, but really be present with them. It can have like a really lasting impact, you know, she still speaks about that interaction today.

 And I think, you know, if we can remember, if somebody does disclose to us or if somebody does say to us, you know, suicide is something that they are thinking about, how we respond, Sarah, like, that can influence that that road, the road a person takes. So which is why it's really wonderful that like, you know, you're, bringing this conversation here into the podcast. Cause if we can support anybody who's listening to this podcast to understand what their role might be in that space. If we, if we can take away that, that fear and that anxiety maybe and somewhat, somewhat. And that sense to want to take over and take control and look, I'm in charge now. If we can take that away and if we can build that competence in the population to be present and just to really stay with that person and to hear and understand the impact of that can be so hugely impactful, hugely, hugely impactful. you know, it's a really important. It's a really important piece to hold on to and to understand, I think.

Sarah Hughes (35:49)

Absolutely. I think, look, I the aim of asking you to come on today, you know, I think we're both in agreement that if we could get as many students as possible to undertake even just that first rung of the training ladder, just the let's talk about suicide. Like there are three rungs and I'll link to, we have a blog post on our website that goes into more detail about all of the training and you guys have information on your website as well. I'll link to all of that in the show notes, but I think if we could even just get as many students as possible to take that first step, I think, you when I have conversations when I go onto campus with students and I have conversations about just moving the needle a little bit in terms of the conversations that they're having day to day about their mental health, if we even had more students just trained on that first rung we would move the needle in terms of the amount of people who have some level of understanding and confidence in having that potential impact for other people.

I just want to touch very briefly because I know we were talking about getting as many people as possible trained and how suicide is everybody's business. But there are some people that we wouldn't necessarily recommend to undertake this training. Could you maybe just talk a little bit about who might want to maybe wait a little while or give a break before they undertake the training?

Ailish O’Neill (37:14)

Yeah, look, that's again a really, really valid point, Sarah. So we've talked about it. it's like suicide, the subject of suicide, the topic of suicide. I suppose, unfortunately, you know, there are very few people who perhaps are listening today or in Ireland today who haven't been affected or at least know somebody who has died by suicide. it's a very emotive subject and topic and it can really impact on people. And what we would always say to people is, know, you just might feel that you just don't have that bandwidth or that headspace to lean into this space or into this subject. That's OK. 

That's absolutely OK, because that's where you are at right now. And another, I suppose, key cohort, we would always say, if people have been bereaved by suicide, you know, that can really, it goes really deep with a person as does any bereavement. So we would always say to people to maybe wait. The guideline is around 12 months and people will know themselves better than than anybody else. But we would always say to wait 12 months before you lean into training on suicide prevention, because you just just might be ready to go there just yet. You know, it can be yeah, very raw and still sitting with you. it may be 24 months. So I think it's always be mindful. And it might even be a bereavement, Sarah. know, it might not even necessarily be a death by suicide. It could be a bereavement in the broadest sense. And just leaning into the space might be a little bit too much. So again, it's back to that permission piece. Like give yourself permission to, you know, you don't have to go near it just now. That will come again when you are ready and you will know. Everybody knows themselves. They'll know when they're ready to lean into the subject and to talk about the subject. So yeah, like you're right. That's a really important point as well to make.

Sarah Hughes (39:34)

And then just some other kind of quickly points I want to hit on is that all of this training is completely free to undertake. there are lots of different, let's talk about suicide is available online at any time that a person feels ready to do it. But in terms of the other steps, the Safe Talk and the Assist, they're in-person trainings, but there's lots of different times and dates available for those all around the country. And we'll link to the training page on the National Office for Suicide Prevention website in the show notes that people could go on, find their local area. There's often trainings run through the different colleges and that as well. So we'll make sure that the information about how to get trained does go out with this podcast as well.

So Ailish, there's two questions that I ask everybody before I let them leave the podcast studio. And the first one is ifthere was kind of one message or one thing that you wish students would take away either from this episode in particular or about mental health in general. What would it be and why?

Ailish O’Neill (40:46)

So let's talk to this episode first of all Sarah. I think if we can break down the myth or the misunderstanding that if I ask or if I talk about suicide, if I'm worried about somebody, if I ask or talk about suicide, I'm going to put the idea in their head. You know, I think if we can challenge that, let's bust that myth here today that we know. We know that isn't the case. And if somebody says, yes, it's about allowing them to articulate why and to understand. And if they say, no, you're not going to be the one who puts the idea in a person's head. know, they'll have made that decision themselves. So I think that's really, really important. And then wider around when we think of mental health.

I suppose it's important to really understand, know, life can be really challenging, right? Like it can be really, really difficult. So we, we definitely can have down days where we're, we're more stressed, where, you know, everything just starts to pinch together and you're just like, I can't handle all of this. I can't deal with it. But that is the nature. Like it can be very, you know, up and down, up and down. That's that.

Life can throw those things at us. think when we need to maybe recognize that we maybe need to lean into the space or might need additional support is if we're not coming back out of that, if we're kind of feel that we're stuck and we're stuck in that space where we feel it's all it's overwhelming every day, it's overwhelming every night, it's just constant that, you know. We recognize that ebb and flow, Sarah. I think that is really important and that those ebbs are part of it. But if we get stuck in those ebbs, then we maybe need to think about, like I am stuck here. to reach out then and not letting it maybe exacerbate somewhat further. Yeah.

Sarah Hughes (42:59)

I think those are two really, really powerful messages. And yeah, if they hit home with people, I think it would go a long way to changing the narrative around mental health and suicide prevention. And so then my last question to you is, what is either your favourite or your most used form of self care and why?

Ailish O’Neill (43:20)

My OK, what I love to do, what I love to do is jump on the spin bike for 45 minutes. Right. Because, you know, if I just like, you know, if sometimes just might wake up, just wake up the wrong side of the bed and everything just is all tipped in one way. And that day, if I go jump on the bike for a class for 45 minutes, Sarah, like. I can't think about the day. I can't think about what happens because I have to think about, okay, I have to do this for 60 seconds. I have to do this for five minutes. Okay, I 10 minutes left. I have to get through it. You know, it's for me, it's a really useful way to get out of my head. Like in terms of self care, like take me out of my head and just really make me present and in the moment and just focusing on what I have to do right now.

Like how my kind of whole demeanor before I get on the bike and get off the bike. Yeah. Like for me, it's such a useful self care tool. just, yeah. And it's all about that bit of, okay, I have to survive these 45 minutes. I can't worry about the before and the after. I have to do the now. And yeah, I think from a self care perspective, just being able to get out of your head and stay in the moment. Gosh, can be very powerful and so helpful in different spaces. Yeah, so definitely that would be my self-care tip.

Sarah Hughes (44:50)

And you know, there's an interesting narrative generally at the moment about the concept of thinking your feelings versus feeling your feelings. And the general consensus seems to be that in order to move from thinking about your feelings to feeling your feelings, you have to do just that. You have to get out of your head and preferably into your body because you have to, that's where you feel things. You feel things in your body. And being able to connect to the present moment is a really important kind of way of doing that. And I think there's a good few people who we've had on the podcast who have referenced doing some sort of physical movement, whether it's like that going for a spin, whether it's going to the gym, whether it's just getting out and going for a walk. And, know, some of those things, have potential additional things like maybe if you're in the gym, there's a social element. If you're up for a walk, you're getting into nature, that kind of stuff.

Ailish O’Neill (45:21)

I like that.

Sarah Hughes (45:45)

But I think a key part of it is sometimes, like we live in our heads and sometimes our heads aren't the nicest places to be, but it is in a way possible to get out of that head space for a while and exist somewhere else. Even if that just is in counting the number of breaths to remind yourself to keep breathing while you're going mad 90 on a spin bike.

Ailish O’Neill (46:07)

Exactly, Sarah. It's 45 seconds. I can do this for 45 seconds. But you, I love that actually. love that thinking and feeling about your feelings. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, you're right. It's been back in the body, isn't it? And back in the now because life's busy, you know, it is. And there's, there, there's so many, so many different competing influences.

So many different people want different things at different times. So you're right. Like the self-care piece is so important. And sometimes it can just be like glossed over a little bit or the interpretation might be, ⁓ looks like that's just that extra add on. But. But yeah, it goes back to it. I suppose it goes back to, you know, talking about like, it's that resilience, isn't it? It's building that piece in yourself to be able to work through the ebbs so you can enjoy the highs as well.

Sarah Hughes (47:10)

Well listen Ailish, it was fantastic to talk to you. I feel like you and I, I find I say this to a lot of people who come on the podcast, we could continue to talk for hours and hours about these things. But look, that's what it's all about, isn't it? You know, the whole point of today was talking about how to have these conversations more. And so thanks so much for coming on and chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.

Ailish O’Neill (47:31)

Great, Sarah. I know. Thank you so much for the opportunity. And as you said, you'll share links. So like we're really happy to to link in with people post this if people have different questions or different things pop up for them. But yeah, like I just really like to acknowledge your work and for bringing this conversation into the space as well. You know, it's it's really powerful. So yeah, well done to you and all of your work in this space as well.

Sarah Hughes (47:58)

Thanks very much, I appreciate it. So thank you for listening to today's episode. Connecting Minds is made possible thanks to funding from the National Office for Suicide Prevention. If you have any comments or questions about today's episode, the podcast or the work that USI are doing on student mental health, please feel free to contact us at mentalhealth@usi.ie or follow us on our social platforms, details of which are available in the show notes.

Sources of support are included in the show notes. Please reach out for help if you are struggling in any way with your mental health.