Connecting Minds Ep 14_ Bryan O’Mahony

Useful links:

List of counselling services available through PCHEI: https://www.pchei.ie/index.php/students1/student-counselling

USI Mental Health Website: https://mentalhealth.usi.ie/ 

USI Mental Health Social Media: https://twitter.com/MentalHealthUSI 

Sources of Help & Support for your mental health: https://mentalhealth.usi.ie/i-need-help/help-in-a-mental-health-emergency/ 

National Office for Suicide Prevention: https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/4/mental-health-services/nosp/

Your Mental Health: https://www2.hse.ie/mental-health/

This transcript was automatically generated and lightly edited for context. Any transcript errors should be notified to mentalhealth@amle.ie

SPEAKERS

Sarah Hughes, Bryan O’Mahony

Sarah Hughes (00:01)

Hello and welcome to episode 14 of Connecting Minds, the student mental health podcast by Aontas, na Mac Léinn in Éirinn. I'm your host Sarah Hughes. Notes and relevant links for each episode can be found in the show notes accompanying each episode. Today we're going to be talking about Movember and I'm delighted to welcome Bryan O'Mahony, president of Aontas na Mac Léinn in Éirinn. Bryan, thanks very much for joining us.

Bryan O'Mahony (00:23)

Hi, thanks very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Sarah Hughes (00:26)

So look, we've been running Movember as part of our main kind of AMLÉ suite of campaigns for a number of years. Can you tell us a little bit about why it's important for us as an organisation to be involved in a campaign like that?

Bryan O'Mahony (00:41)

It's really important as we see with students that their mental health has been always been an issue, but more so with the cost of living crisis and stuff like this, it's extra important that we're minding our mental health, but also being normalizing the conversation around mental health to have the conversation and talk to people about it. And that's the important thing is to normalize the conversation.

Sarah Hughes (01:02)

I know you weren't a welfare officer yourself in your time in local office but you were an officer down in Waterford. What, from then up to now, what are some of the issues you're seeing, particularly maybe for men that they're kind of dealing with as students?

Bryan O'Mahony (01:16)

Yeah, students as a whole, but men probably specifically, isolation is a huge thing since COVID is what we're seeing. Students on campus not having that place of belonging, that community that they have. Since COVID, it just seems like the feeling of belonging on campus has gone, which is really hurting students' mental health. We see that the cost of living crisis and financial issues are also hurting students. That unnecessary stress, that burden, having to work multiple jobs as well as going to class. That's really what's hurting students at the moment.

Sarah Hughes (01:51)

It's a kind of an important thing that you reflect on there. think that, you know, there are individual things that impact on a person's mental health, but there are those kind of broader, I suppose we'd call them social determinants of mental health. And really, you know, it sort of feels like it dilutes things a little bit to say everything is mental health, but in a way, everything really is mental health, isn't it?

Bryan O'Mahony (02:13)

Yeah, you're just surprised of how much kind of builds into mental health. It may seem insignificant at the time, but sometimes it can be that building of pressures, little thing by little thing, builds and builds and builds until it hits a breaking point for you.

Sarah Hughes (02:28)

sure. And look, the Movember campaign is great, like we've been seeing on campuses all around the country, there's been lots of fun things happening, people dyeing their hair, people growing mos, and lots of different, you know, if we raise a certain amount of money we will do this stupid or embarrassing thing. And lots of really great events happening, mostly led by men but with great allies from other genders as well. But I was reading an interesting piece there in the Trinity News a couple of days ago where they were saying it's really important to not lose sight of the more serious meaning behind Movember. Like it's not just enough to kind of to grow a mo or throw a tenner into the charity bucket, that there are very real issues behind what's going on here. And really it comes down to this idea of kind of the patriarchy and toxic masculinity and the negative impacts of those on the male members of our community. Like we're all well aware of the impacts of patriarchy on women there's a really strong discourse on that but this is one of the ways that the patriarchy and toxic masculinity really negatively impacts men as well.

Bryan O'Mahony (03:33)

Yeah, so the patriarchy is harmful for men to some degree as well. That feeling of being able to speak out and, you know, being told to man up, not being able to cry, you know, these kind of stereotypes of having of the which have been the cause and effect of the patriarchy is, you know, to be a strong man, to not feel, to not show emotion, to always be strong can be overwhelming. And that's that's what really what Movember comes behind is the importance of being able to speak out, speak to each other. For me, it took me a long while to seek help because I was meant to be strong. I was meant to be a man and it took me a long time to seek therapy and come to the fact that I needed to accept help in order to get better rather than just shouldering the burden and keep walking on.

Sarah Hughes (04:21)

This is so true. it's something that we kind of have echoed in our messaging around our social media graphics this year that, you know, it's actually, it's brave to speak out, it's strong to seek help, it takes courage to step up and say that I'm not okay. But also, it's anybody who's experienced mental health difficulty will know that when you're in that place, it can be one of the hardest things to do. Like, it really does take an extra bit of strength to kind of step up and say, well, actually, no, I'm not feeling okay. You mentioned that you've a bit of personal experience with struggling with your own mental health. Like how did you kind of navigate that experience?

Bryan O'Mahony (05:01)

So it's been a long journey and I think even now I'm still ongoing with that journey, trying different ways of kind of self-help but ultimately I was doing a PLC course in accountancy and unfortunately it got to a stage where I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. I just lived in a kind of a darkness. I dropped out of my course. I stopped going outside. I just kept doing my part-time job in order to still have money. But other than that, it was just a really dark time. But for me, what helped me eventually get out of space, I was fortunate enough where just one day I just had a clarity of light and I started going on walks out in nature, started doing running and joining athletics and coaching and stuff like that. And that helped me kind of get back into a cycle of hope again. as with any mental health journey, it's having that little jump up only lasted for a while and then I fell into a depression again. Ultimately, therapy helped a little bit, but going out and doing sports is what really got to me and that's what led to me doing my higher education course in sport and exercise science, was seeing the benefits that sport could do for mental health and kind of helping people balance their emotional kind of sense.

Sarah Hughes (06:28)

And I think that's a really important thing to note. Like we talk a lot on this podcast about self care. Like I ask everybody who comes on about their self care. And I think that's really what I'm trying to tap into. I think a couple of years ago, there was this kind of narrative of like, I went for a run and it cured my depression. And that very much oversimplified things. And it gave certain elements of self care a bit of a bad rep, I think. And with this stereotype of self care, it's all bubble baths and pampering and has a very female sort of bent to it a lot of the time. And look, nobody's saying like that, that going for a run is going to cure a mental illness. But I think what you're pointing out there really highlights the benefit of, you know, doing those base level things and building yourself up to a point where you can start to see the light, where you can feel in a place that you can reach out for help.

Bryan O'Mahony (07:15)

Yeah, I think like sports alone wasn't the help, but it's what I clung to definitely at the time was going for these runs and other activities. But by being outside, then, you know, it's the casual thing of trying to meet up with friends, you know, trying to do social things and meeting with people, things that made you feel happy. Like I think going for a walk can definitely be a big help, but I think it's only a gear in a wider machine that helps make you move along and trying to balance up a little bit with your mental health.

Sarah Hughes (07:48)

for sure. And look, you know, there are lots of supports available there for students. There are lots of free supports available on campus, including, but not limited to the counselling service. And I understand that for some people that can feel like a really scary step, a really big step to take because the idea of going to counselling can mean very directly confronting whatever issue might be going on for you, which might be a really big thing to overcome. And I feel like what you're talking about is kind of taking little steps at a time like you say, when there's a bit of a kind of a step backwards, not completely giving up, but trying a different tack. Like you've mentioned a wide range of things you've helped over the years. And I think it can be easy sometimes, well not easy, but it can feel like maybe if you've tried something and it didn't work that maybe, I don't know, you're broken in some way and there's no helping you. But I think what you're showing by your story is that's really not the case.

Bryan O'Mahony (08:43)

Like my catalyst of like I fell into another really dark depression first year of college. I had no money. I was on the verge of being evicted. Even though on paper I was eligible for SUZI, SUZI wasn't giving me my grant. And I once again, I just fell into a really dark space of not being able to get up in the morning and just relying on very unhealthy coping mechanisms to try and get me through the time. But what was the catalyst for me seeking the counselling support in college was a lecturer. A lecturer noticed that I wasn't going to class and when I was in class that I was always just very quiet to myself and just leaving straight after class, not socialising or anything. my grades were dropping. So the lecturer in Waterford in SETU took me to the side and had a conversation, guided me towards the guidance, towards counselling. helped get me up the list as well to make sure I was seen sooner. And that was the help that I needed. like counseling and therapy can be a long journey. Sometimes there's definitely a thing of, I have gone through where I've had therapists that I just didn't click with. And I think sometimes that's important about the click. Some people kind of have that misstep where they don't click with their therapist, the first one to get and think that therapy is not for them. But sometimes it's about finding that right person. But also there's so many different types of therapy that I've gone through as well. And sometimes it's about finding the right fit. Is there a different type of therapy that suits your style more and to be able to talk more? And there's different services like the services put in colleges through the HSE, but there's also charities like Pieta house and stuff. And look, I've used them all. And sometimes it's just about finding that match that meets your needs at the time.

Sarah Hughes (10:29)

so true and actually it's something I feel that we don't highlight enough that you know as you're doing that kind of shopping around like there's no harm in joining the waiting list for counseling or being referred to something by your GP and in the meantime accessing a service provided by a charity or something like there's no rule that says you're on one single pathway and you have to stick on that pathway straight through to completion and then come out the end and decide if it worked or not.

what you're saying about the different types of counsellors and the different types of counselling is very true as well. And I think you're right, there is. And look, yeah, when you're in that place where you're struggling, that can feel like a lot of hard work to start over with a new therapy or do the research and that kind of thing. And it is okay to take a break in between and figure out what you want. But I think, as you say, the point is to not stop trying in that process.

Bryan O'Mahony (11:20)

Yeah, look, I've had therapists that I didn't click with before. And when you're in that deep dark space, trying to that help can feel like the biggest call to strength that you've ever done. It could feel like the hardest thing to do, the most draining to do. You can come out of those therapy sessions feeling like you've just ran a marathon and you can be so drained and potentially for the first one is very kind of demoralized because of how drained it is. Because you can have that thing in your head that this is supposed to be helping me. Why is this so hard? Why is this so draining? But honestly, it's just part of process trying to stick with it and keep going through it until it finally starts to help. It gets easier to talk about. It takes a weight off those shoulders and it becomes a part of a, almost part of a routine, like talking to a friend and meeting up every week for a coffee. It feels like that just of lightening the shoulders and talking to somebody that can actually understand what you're going through.

Sarah Hughes (12:19)

sure and you're right it is it's a really hard thing to do and that's why so many people don't do it and why it takes a bravery and a strength to step up and ask for help but you're right the impact of sticking with it and finding the right type of help and the right person to help as you say can help to lessen the load. I'm just interested what you said about your lecture kind of pulling you to the side and that kind of being a sort of a turning point for you because I think It's something that we're really trying to kind of get the message out about there in terms of if you're not somebody who's struggling with your mental health, you can still have a really big impact on those around you. Like if you, you know, checking in on your friends and your family members and that. But I understand that for a lot of people, there can be a concern that, you know, if somebody opens up to you as a friend or as a family member, that sort of you take on almost a responsibility to fix things then that, you know, you have to take on that role when really, you know, that's not the case.

Bryan O'Mahony (13:18)

Yeah, so in my specific experience, the lecturer, merely all it was was signposting. It's noticing that that person is hurting, that person isn't OK in being able to signpost where they need to go. Like if I was to do today, you know, it's easy for me to signpost. But if I was to take on a case myself, unfortunately, I'm not qualified to deal with that. You can have all the empathy in the world and trying to really help other people. most of us aren't qualified to take that load. So it's making sure that We're signposting and directing people to the people most qualified to actually give that help to people.

Sarah Hughes (13:54)

sure and I think sometimes when somebody reaches out to a friend specifically they're not really looking for that friend to fix them, they're just looking for that friend to kind of sit in it with them a little bit and let them know that they're not alone and that they're seen and they're understood and you know I think sometimes when people struggle with their mental health as you said yourself you can isolate yourself away and it's because you know sometimes it's just because it's too hard to kind of make yourself leave the house. But sometimes it's because you're afraid that your friends will see you differently or treat you differently. And sometimes them saying, look, I'm not feeling okay, is just them looking for a bit of reassurance that look, you know, as your pal, I still love you the same and I'm not gonna treat you any different. And we'll still invite you even if you're not gonna want to come to things all the time and that sort of thing.

Bryan O'Mahony (14:39)

Yeah, look, I feel like sometimes when you're in that deep dark pit, it feels easy to think that nobody cares about me, nobody would miss me. It's very easy to fall into that cycle and that vicious vicious cycle. But at the end of the day, I think as a friend, what you can do is make sure that they're seen, because that's all everyone wants to be doing is to be seen, to be appreciated and acknowledged. And that's what can be the lift and be the help is rather than being their therapist is making sure that people are seeing that you're nosing them and that they feel cared for.

Sarah Hughes (15:19)

Absolutely. And I think one of the things that we can do as friends and as family members, like we've spoken a little bit there about signposting and look in AMLÉ and in your role and my role, that's something that we do and we're kind of trained to do and we know where to signpost to. It's OK to not know where to signpost. think it's OK to say, look, I'm not really sure, but if you would like me to help you, we can sit down and figure out where we might get you help together. The AMLÉ website, the AMLÉ mental health website has resources as to, you know, how to be a friend supporting somebody. But I think it's a good opportunity to signpost to the Let's Talk About Suicide training run by the HSE as well, because that can be a really good way if you've done that training, you'll have that confidence to kind of say, look, well, if you have been thinking about suicide, here's some things that we can try in terms of getting you help as well.

Bryan O'Mahony (16:10)

Yeah, I think trainings like that or like safe talk and other trainings that you can do are really, really helpful. They just really sometimes because I've been on both sides of the spectrum of being the person in the depression that needed the help and the person doing the helping. I think trainings like that can really help you in how to actually engage in that conversation and engage in that activity, because sometimes it can be hard to know what to say or feeling like if you should say something. or sometimes there's more challenging questions of whether you should ask straight out if they're doing okay and stuff like that. And having those trainings behind you gives just that kind of reinforcement and that empowerment of how to kind of engage in that conversation and how to kind of best help people around you. And I think the more people that were able to do those trainings and stuff like that, I think it'd be just a little bit of a better world.

Sarah Hughes (17:02)

Yeah, I think I wrote a blog post for our website for November. And one of the things I was saying in it is, you know, if you could turn it sort of turn the concept of what it is to be a man on its head. you know, when we look at the statistics, the chances are if you're allowed in a group of lads, up to half of them have struggled with their mental health or are currently struggling with their mental health. And imagine if you as a guy could turn around and say, hey, man How's it going? I don't think you're doing so well. Do you want to have a chat about it? That to me feel like the strength and being able to do that and have that conversation. That feels like a better idea of what it should be to be a man to me.

Bryan O'Mahony (17:46)

Yeah, I think it would be so much easier if we felt more comfortable to do that. it's always again, it's the illusion that, you know, men shouldn't have emotion, they shouldn't be upset. So we shouldn't really be comfortable in talking about it. And I think that's the biggest kind of cultural shift we need to kind of get rid of is making sure that, you know, regardless of your gender, it's okay to cry, it's okay to be upset, it's okay to feel down, it's okay to ask for help. And I think that's the biggest thing is Trying to make sure that the conversation around mental health is normalised, that it's part of a conversation, that it's not this big serious thing that catches people by shock if people have asked about it them, that we can just freely check in on our friends, check in on the people around us and make sure we're all doing okay.

Sarah Hughes (18:34)

Yeah, I mean the sort of the central messaging we put out as part of our open up campaign is we sort of say, you know, if you walked up to your group of friends and you said, hey, how's it going? If you're doing that in Ireland, chances are your usual response you'll get back is, I'm grand, I'm fine. It'll be something in the positive, even if the person who's saying it is having a terrible day. And I'd love for us, even just in that tiny bit of conversation, if we could move the needle and have the response be, hey, look, do you know? I don't really want to get into it, but just not having a great day, but thanks for asking. Like it doesn't, as you say, doesn't need to get into a big deep thing, just part of normal everyday conversation. I think that that would be a huge step that we could take as a society. like you say, not just for men, but for all genders as having those conversations.

Bryan O'Mahony (19:17)

Yeah, it's just that simple thing of rather than, yeah, as you said, the usual thing of look. Sure, I'm grand, you know, just passing on. Pass it on, because that's the normalised response just to simply say, look, yeah, I'm not having a great time at the moment. And just even by having that, you know, that just normalising to open up to people talking, it's like what's happening, what's going on? Do want to talk about it? And do you want to have a chat? It normalises having that conversation. And, you know, again. Normalising the conversation around mental health is probably the most important thing we can do at the moment to make sure that everyone feels like they can talk about it and ask about it. Otherwise we fall into the cycle of, I don't want people to talk about it with me because I'm not worth that burden, not worth that effort.

Sarah Hughes (20:01)

And you know, that's something I have heard, like I'm out on campuses quite a lot at the moment with our campaign. And I've had several students come up and say to me, yeah, I don't want to be a burden to my friends. I don't want to talk about it because I feel like I would be being a burden. And I actually heard somebody say just this morning that I'd rather my mate cry on my shoulder than me cry at their funeral. And I think that's a really kind of powerful message. as a friend, I would rather any of my friends came to me and said that, then know that they didn't and wanted to, but were afraid of my reaction.

Bryan O'Mahony (20:35)

Yeah, and I suppose that's the important thing is making sure it's definitely what we try to do is trying to look at upstream approaches of addressing mental health. It's preventing people from getting to that crisis stage, prevents us from getting too far down the line where people feel like they can't talk about it anymore because they're set on a certain pathway to go down. And that's probably the most dangerous thing is trying to catch people before they walk down that path. Because it can be. Once you're on that path, just from personal experience, it can be very hard to get off it, but it can be simply that person checking in talking to you that gets you back off that path again.

Sarah Hughes (21:13)

sure and I think yes, while if somebody is in crisis they should absolutely seek help as soon as possible, I think you've a really important message in there in that you don't need to wait till you're on that crisis path in order to seek help. if your emotions are impacting you in any way that it's stopping you living your regular life the way you normally do, that's the time to start to go and seek help. Like the earlier you seek help the better it is for everybody concerned and it's important to note I think as well that for for the on-campus service, like the counselling service, they don't need you to have some big, deep, dark problem going on. If you're just feeling stressed about exams, if you've had somebody break up with you, or if you're not really sure, but you're just not feeling yourself, they will give you an appointment. You don't need to have some sort of tick box diagnosis in order to be able to access help from services like that.

Bryan O'Mahony (22:05)

I think sometimes we quite easily fall into the path of, is my problem, but it's not a real problem because someone else is dealing with this and this is so much more serious. But my opinion on this has always been that pain is perspective. You are dealing with your own pain. Just cause somebody else may be going through something what you perceive to be a worse situation than you doesn't necessarily follow through. It's no matter what your pain is or what your experiences of what's causing you to feel down. There is nothing stopping you from seeking help. You shouldn't be worried that, you know, someone else is dealing with this. So they clearly need more help than I. Everyone needs help at different stages of life, no matter what you're dealing with.

Sarah Hughes (22:45)

And everybody deserves that help as well. I think that can be a narrative we can get into quite easily when we get into that dark place of like, there's something wrong with me, I don't deserve help, I don't deserve to get the counselling slot, I might take it from somebody else. And that's just simply not a true fact. Every student and every person out there deserves help if they're in, as you say, what is a very real type of pain.

Bryan O'Mahony (23:10)

Yeah, absolutely agree. We're all deserving of help. It's all something that we very much deserve. So like, if you feel like you're going down a darker path, it's making sure you find that help because there's no need to feel good to a worse stage. When you think you need the help, go for the help.

Sarah Hughes (23:31)

sure. And look, I know that when this podcast goes out, it won't be November anymore, it'll be into December. And that's something that we've chosen to do on purpose, because while November, you know, it's great for highlighting and campaign months and awareness days are great for highlighting things like this. What's important for us is that the narrative doesn't stop at the end of November, that like, okay, that's it, we're done talking about men's mental health and men's health, we're moving on to the next thing. And you know, it's one of the reasons why our general mental health campaign has become a year-long campaign, but I think we wanted to make the point that just because November is over doesn't mean our conversations and our work on men's mental health is over.

Bryan O'Mahony (24:13)

Yeah, it's really important to kind of note that, you know, mental health and talking about any mental health shouldn't be confined to a month. If we meaningfully want to normalise the talking around mental health, has to be an all year talk. And that's how we really make the cultural change that all time, all days, all year is mental health.

Sarah Hughes (24:34)

Absolutely. And look, and it goes without saying that as an organisation, we're constantly fighting for better supports in the student arena for mental health for all genders and fighting for those upstream interventions as well.

Bryan O'Mahony (24:50)

Yeah, because there's so many different things that work. know, sometimes again, just with the case of loneliness and isolation, there's so many different things that we can do as an upstream approach, just sharing activities, getting together and help people find a community, a society or people that make them feel welcome and that belong with and they have other shoulders to lean on when they need it most.

Sarah Hughes (25:14)

sure. And look, Bryan, I think you and I could, we have a shared interest in mental health. think we could probably chat forever about everything to do with it. But I suppose there's two questions that I ask everybody who comes onto the podcast. And look, I think any number of the things that we've said could probably fit as an answer to this first one. But if there was one kind of takeaway thing from this episode or in general about mental health, that you I usually say that you wish all students knew, but if that you wish male students knew specifically, what would it be and why?

Bryan O'Mahony (25:49)

I think it's just back to something I was saying early on is that pain is perspective, it's always okay to seek out mental health support such as counselling and stuff. Go for that appointment, know, regardless of what stage you are on your journey, counselling can be a very, very helpful thing and teach you lot of techniques that can help you support you through your days.

Sarah Hughes (26:11)

And I suppose it's probably worth pointing out as well that, know, counsellors are never gonna, they're not gonna judge you. Like there's nothing that you're gonna go into a counselling session and say that they're gonna go, well, that's just ridiculous. Get out of here. Here's the, there's the door. You know, there's nothing that a counsellor probably hasn't heard before you came through the door. So there's nothing to kind of feel embarrassed about or ashamed about you know, the thoughts that our brains tell us when they're lying to us in those dark moments are not unique to us. You know, those thoughts occur to many, many people and they might use different words, they might come in different voices, but those thoughts that our brains lie to us about, you know, they're not new and unique to you. And so just to kind of point that out when you're going into a counselling session, because I can imagine that that might be the case for some people where they feel like, God, what's What's the counselor going to think of me when I say this one particular thing to them, you know?

Bryan O'Mahony (27:10)

Yeah, and that's the important thing is those spaces are very open. You know, it's a no judgment space. are free to talk about whatever is bugging you the most, whatever has happened in your past that you need to talk about. It's free of judgment. So just always feel open and free enough to say what you need to say in order to help you on your healing path.

Sarah Hughes (27:31)

sure and they're also confidential spaces I suppose that's worth pointing out unless they feel that you or somebody else is in danger like they're not going to go and talk to your lecturers and you know about and it's not going to impact like your grades or anything like that nothing like that will ever be done without your explicit permission. So then I suppose the second question is and I have a funny feeling I can probably guess what your answer might be for this but what's your favorite or most used form of self-care and why?

Bryan O'Mahony (28:00)

Yeah, so my favourite self care is that when I feel like I'm starting to get a little unwell with my mental health, I try and go for a hike, a walk, swim, kayak, just take time away from my phone, kind of leave my phone off, not answering messages, just so I can take time for me to reset myself back in nature, just so I can balance myself again.

Sarah Hughes (28:26)

You know, the sort of getting outdoors or being active is something we've heard from different people before, but not with that kind of perspective. Like some people have said, you know, it's great to get away and stuff, but it's more been on the I'm being active and stuff, whereas you use it more in a mindful kind of way and in a disconnecting from like, you know, you're the president of a national organization. I imagine it could be very easy for you to be switched on and in work mode like 24 seven and you know the calls are constantly coming in so to use it as that disconnection kind of way like I find it really interesting when people talk about the same type of self-care but in the different ways that they approach it like that.

Bryan O'Mahony (29:06)

Yeah, it's so hard to switch off sometimes. So I think the best way to absolutely switch off is just make sure that you're getting away from your phone from time to time. We get so stuck in our phone and technology in this electronic age, that's important that we just reset and take time for ourselves.

Sarah Hughes (29:22)

I note that all the things you mentioned as well gets you outdoors, out into nature as well as moving as well, which, you know, there is research that documents, you know, in terms of being in nature and being around the green colours of nature and that positive impact on our mental health as well.

Bryan O'Mahony (29:38)

Yeah, sometimes just being able to sit at the seaside and watching the waves, know, just something just so calming and soothing about it and being out in the fresh air and exploring and seeing beautiful things can just reset and bring colour back into your life a little bit again.

Sarah Hughes (29:52)

I actually read a study recently that said that listening to birdsong can help reduce anxiety. And the reason for that is birds don't sing when there's danger. So if you're hearing the birdsong, it indicates to your brain that actually there isn't the danger that your anxiety is telling you that there is. And I'm sure there are similar reasons why the waves have the same kind of impact and the noise of the wind through the trees and stuff like that as well. But I just thought it was, We go out and we feel this stuff, but it's interesting to understand that there is reasons why that actually does help us.

Bryan O'Mahony (30:27)

Yeah, it can be fascinating of what the human mind is so unknown that it can be so interesting to see how we relate to certain responses sometimes.

Sarah Hughes (30:36)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, listen, look, Bryan, thanks so much for coming on and thanks for sharing your personal experience. know, I think it's one of the things that will help us break down the stigma around mental health in general, but particularly around mental health for men is hearing the personal experiences and understanding that like that any man listening knows that they're not alone because you've been through something similar yourself. So thanks so much for sharing all of that.

Bryan O'Mahony (31:01)

No worries, thank you so much for having me.

Sarah Hughes (31:03)

no problem. Thank you for listening to today's episode. Connecting Minds is made possible thanks to funding from the National Office for Suicide Prevention. If you have any comments or questions about today's episode, the podcast or the work that AMLÉ are doing on student mental health, please feel free to contact us at mentalhealthatamle.ie or follow us on our social platforms, details of which are available in the show notes. Sources of support are also included in the show notes. Please reach out for help if you're struggling in any way with your mental health.