This episode we talk with three guests, Nicole Galase, managing director for Hawaii Cattlemen’s Council, Lani Petrie of Kapapala Ranch and Jeri Moniz of KK Ranch. We will be talking about Act 90 and Hawaii agricultural land leases managed by Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources, and the transfer issues our producers have been dealing with for over a decade.
Thank you for tuning into this podcast, look forward to next month when we talk with the pollinator ecologist for the University of Hawaii Dr. Christina Mogren about Best Management Practices for Beekeeping in Hawai’i.
If you have any questions feel free to contact us at walaau@hawaii.edu
Links:
Thanks for listening! Check out our other social media platforms!
This episode we talk with three guests, Nicole Galase, managing director for Hawaii Cattlemen’s Council, Lani Petrie of Kapapala Ranch and Jeri Moniz of KK Ranch. We will be talking about Act 90 and Hawaii agricultural land leases managed by Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources, and the transfer issues our producers have been dealing with for over a decade.
Thank you for tuning into this podcast, look forward to next month when we talk with the pollinator ecologist for the University of Hawaii Dr. Christina Mogren about Best Management Practices for Beekeeping in Hawai’i.
If you have any questions feel free to contact us at walaau@hawaii.edu
Links:
Thanks for listening! Check out our other social media platforms!
Today's episode is brought to you by the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources and the livestock extension group.
Melelani Oshiro:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the livestock Walaau podcast aim to provide educational support, information, guidance and outreach to our livestock stakeholders in Hawaii. We are your hosts Mele Oshiro
Shannon Sand:and Shannon sand.
Melelani Oshiro:Today we're so fortunate to have three guests here joining our show. Nicole Galassi, managing director for Hawaii Academy's counsel Jerry monies which with KK wrench and she's also the marketing chair for HCC and Lonnie Petri with kappa Paula ranch.
Shannon Sand:Hawaii Kettlemans Council has done an amazing job connecting with producers and creating a consistent presence in the legislature bringing attention to many important issues relating to the beef industry. One issue in particular that we will discuss today is land leases.
Melelani Oshiro:So I've given you a short introduction to Nicole, Jerry and Lonnie, but we'd love to hear from them more about their background. And maybe Nicole, do you want to get us started on what you do and how you became with HCC?
Nicole Galase:Sure, so my path to the cattle industry is somewhat unorthodox. I'll start off by saying I am new to the cattle industry. So it's been with the help of learning from all the ranchers and understanding what's going on. To get to where I am and there's so much more to learn. I actually have a business background from the Scheidler College of Business at u h Manoa. And, but even after that, I didn't go into business, I started my career in conservation. Um, I worked for several seasons and Papahanaumokuakea. This was habitat restoration working with seabirds and monk seals in remote areas for months at a time with no one else except for a few other researchers. I went to grad school in New Zealand so that I could get kind of a more interdisciplinary skill set for conservation. But when I came back, I still kept working with seabirds. And I started to get this pool to to do something that had more of a connection to people. So at that same time, a mentor of mine told me that the void Kettlemans counsel was looking for a managing director. I thought she was crazy, because I didn't know how this fit with me but with nonprofit management that fit in well with what I wanted to do. And then when I started in the position, I realized how much conservation the ranchers were actually doing on the ground in a way that was so much more effective because they have a business that they're running. So a lot of what why Kettlemans Council does is like you said is being one voice for the industry. And that has been something that I've really enjoyed doing. But I'm really glad to have the some ranchers on with me, because nothing substitutes coming straight from from them.
Unknown:Yeah, well, I must say, Nicole, you know when? Because I think you started with HTC right after I became Yujun over in Kona. And that's when I first met you. But yeah, you've done an amazing job of for somebody who come in without a background in cattle like it's, you've it was a lot, I'm sure a big learning curve for you. But you've got it spot on girl. So it's been it's been really good. And I think you're doing an amazing job with HCC. Thank you. Sometimes it helps because I asked those questions that everybody else already knows.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, but sometimes that's what we need to hear. Because one yeah, sometimes we forget to ask the questions.
Unknown:But sometimes it's just yeah. And those simple questions sometimes you don't realize there's many other people out there that ask the same one. Yeah, one tonight as well. Yeah. So we also have Jerry Moniz here who has worked in a lot of programs with CTAHR before it's very familiar. Yeah. Jerry, you want to give us a little bit of your background and where you're coming from?
Jeri Moniz:Sure. Well, our family owns and runs kicking ranch we've been we have a state lease on the northeast eastern side of Molokhia been doing it for over 30 years. I've also been part of the TCP range with CTAHR for about 15 years now and we've been doing that and that that was a good that's a good program to to help ranchers and and the culinary people and the general public to understand their how our Meet is, is raised on this island and they've done it. They've done a really good job doing that. And for the past six years, I've been in the market each year for the HCC. So that's where we're
Melelani Oshiro:a lot of hats. Yeah. And during the pandemic, you folks through Kettlemans I mean, with the Marketing Committee, you guys donated a whole ton of beef right to Salvation Army.
Unknown:Can you tell us? Yeah, as soon as the pandemic hit, I put out a call to action, I guess for for to the ranchers on every island because we needed meat on every island. And we were able to get over 20,000 pounds of beef donated, and we worked with the Salvation Army. And, and through their program, they were able to make over 60,000 meals with that. And and I gotta say, I mean, working with the cattle industry, every single person I called. Nobody said no, you know, and this is the way this industry is. They're, they're really community based. And they're, they're very willing to help. And not only our program, but they've done other programs through the Farm Bureau. And individually. ranchers have donated meat, and also we've been getting protein with the, you know, through the Farm Bureau out to people. So ranchers have in the farmers have really stepped up during the span. Yeah,
Shannon Sand:yeah. The ranchers have been amazing. I feel like they are, like you said, like, I feel like ranchers are very community based, but I'm biased because I'm also like, a fourth generation branch. But I'm like, yeah, like I've never met one that like if a communities in need. They're not like, yeah, therefore it's so
Unknown:well, yeah. Well, they have because it's not only through the ACC or or the Farm Bureau individually, they've done it. Yeah. They've helped you know, and given to the food basket, or the food bank. That kind of stuff. So, you know, they've they've really stepped up and helped. I feel Yeah.
Melelani Oshiro:That's awesome. And Lonnie, you guys, you are down in kappa Paulo, and, gosh, I met you.
Unknown:I want to say like eight or nine years ago, when we were down there doing some stuff with the goats. And I was really taken aback because I just looked at and I was like, it's just amazing to see, like, generational ranches, you know, even with Jerry folks, you know, tell us a little bit more about your position down there and Chapala. And what's all going on? Yeah, sure. Sure. So I'm, I'm, I moved to Chapala in 1977. We've been here for 43 years. In 1977. I just got out of high school, in my dad took over the lease from Parker Ranch. But we had an agreement. My parents and my brother and I all had to go leave the state for one year. So I wanted to go to college. And I went to Washington State University and got my degree in agricultural economics. Fortunately, done. Fortunately, when I was done, my mom and dad are, you know, hanging on to this property? It's they ran it as a remote under a revocable permit for 17 years. It was a ranch it had been. It was originally owned. Well, let's not get too far back. But it was badly neglected at the point that my over and it didn't help being able to rebuild necessary infrastructure under a 30 day revocable permit. This grant has 100 miles of pipeline that was badly deteriorating. And so that was my introduction to this ranch was a huge struggle right up from the front of having to rebuild with out the ability to borrow any money. We've managed to stay here for 43 years. And I think what we're here to talk about is exactly what you have faced for the last 43 years is that the lack of tenure Yeah, and not being able to move forward Word with very complex investments. Because the state who is the governing body of the land, doesn't understand what it takes to manage a business that is dictated by ecology. Yes. So that's who I am and why I'm here and at this at over 60. I don't plan on going anywhere, but we'll see how this act 90. Yeah, at least comes out.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, yeah. Nicole, there has been a lot in the legislature legislative session this year, regarding act 90. And I mean, you know, just looking at I mean, we understand Shana and I both been in livestock, we understand the amount of time not just it takes to manage the cattle, but the time it takes to produce a calf, right. I mean, that's where your money is, is producing animals, you know. So that investment not just into your animals, but into the land to make sure it can produce. I mean, that's a big thing. So we're right now, do we stand with the update on that in that 90 and getting those lease transfers?
Unknown:Yeah. So in the past couple of years, we've kind of ramped up our efforts at the legislature, the ranchers for the past couple of decades have been working on this. Since act 90, pass in 2003. I guess I'll start with that. Back in 2003, act 90, was passed. And the purpose of that was really clear, it's to ensure the long term productive use of public agricultural lands. And the way to get that done was to transfer agricultural lands from the Department of Land and Natural Resources to the Hawaii Department of Agriculture. That sounds simple. But just to give, you know, why, why does that need to happen? It's because the Department of Agriculture gives out terms that are based on agriculture. And their mission is to further food production. So the ranchers and the farmers who are under Department of Agriculture, have that confidence that their ranch, or their operation will continue in ranching, because the Department of Agriculture is here to support AG. Yeah. And on that note, you know, where you're saying Department of Agriculture, their mission is to support tag dealing are nowhere in their mission states, any kind of supportive agriculture, in fact, they're kind of counter productive as far as what their mission is, versus versus what agriculture is. And so the bid is not is really not good for us, you
Shannon Sand:know? And based on lonnis talk, it sounds like the deal on our leases are DLNR leases are really It almost sounds like they're really short term versus like, if you will,
Unknown:they're they're 3030 year leases, but the problem is, after your well, no hurt. We've been we've been given 30 year leases at this point. But But what happens is at the end of 30 years, it goes back up for public bid. What happens is, is after that, this goes up, we have to, like, if we put improvements on on our leases, which is what we do, we put it we put in, you know, reservoirs or fence lines, and that kind of stuff. So towards the end of the lease, nobody does anything on these leases, because what happens is it goes back up for leases, and you have to bid on your improvements. So basically, you've paid for those improvements twice. And with if it goes over to Department of Agriculture that wouldn't have right. You know, so, you know, we try and take care of our leases, the best that we can. And so, you know, we'd like to see these leases stay in agriculture.
Shannon Sand:That makes it hard to want to do a long term investment, like y'all have said, yeah, yeah. And you don't it's your money out of pocket. You can't borrow against the land because you don't own it. And I'm less like, yeah, there's a lot,
Melelani Oshiro:you can have that production without having land that's going to produce the stuff that you need to, you know, support your livestock already so
Unknown:you can imagine, you know, our, our leases would will be up in 2030. And we have all these cattle on we don't get the lease. What are you gonna do? Yeah, but clarify that they're actually still they're actually still our leases that are still under 30 Today revocable permits. Oh there. Yeah, true. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. And
Melelani Oshiro:so this doesn't only affect I mean, I guess livestock producers too, right. Because anyone else that is on ag base is there other farmers is producing or protostar orchard crops?
Shannon Sand:Longer term. Yeah. So there's
Unknown:there has been some progress in leases transferring from DLNR to do away. However, the issue lies with, I think, mostly the pasture leases. And I hope Jerry and Lonnie can talk to you about that, because the transfers after 2003, they really didn't happen for a good many years. And the past couple of years, they have made more effort to transfer some leases. And that's partly due to the ranchers saying, What about act 90, we need these leases transferred to help agriculture. But there are a lot of pasture leases that DLNR has said, we're not going to transfer. And their reasoning is because they have potential for reforestation, or potential for habitat restoration. But what during millennia will tell you is that they're producing food while doing the stewardship of the land. The reason F 90 was put into place was because like for, for example, our lease was originally a seven or a little over 7000 acre lease. And we had 2000 acres taken out of production by the by the state when the saddle road was realigned, because they went through critical habitat for the poly lumber. And so in order to replace that they took away 2000 acres from us they took away acreage from SC ranches Nexus Boteler is next to us with no no compensation other than reducing our rent by a third. And so, you know, yeah, well, in none of the other, you know, I mean, none of the other. None of none of our other bills went down by a third, you know, we still had bills. So that's why at 90s, we started this dialogue with with Lorraine and Russel cocobolo. And well, you know, to get this passed, and that's why it was it was put into place. So that wouldn't happen again. Well, that was 17 years ago, and it still hasn't been transferred. And so the pieces that were taken away from us, you know, at the top, they've just started reforesting, they say reforesting. But very little wood native plants are no or, well, they've been reforesting with core up top where where this kind of like at the upper echelon, the upper boundary of our core grows, you know, I mean, usually when we took it over what was growing up, there was the Mamane and sandalwood and you know, and so that's one of the main benefits. Two of having the renter's stewarding the land is that these guys are out there every single day. They don't you see them behind the desk right now, but they don't spend much of their time behind the desk every single day. They're out there, and it's an observation and understanding the land so that the management that they're doing is based on that place, rather than just something from a book.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah. Yeah. The land that you're running on doesn't get managed? Well, you have no production in there, you won't have production in your in your herd either. Right. So I mean, it's, and the producers, ranchers all understand that. And they I think they did the best job at it. But yeah,
Unknown:we're, we're, you know, we're trying to make the point that, you know, dealing are has a lot of land in in conservation, they have what cluster 1.5 million or something. Nicole? So the state has about 4 million acres of land. And 48% of that is in conservation. When we look at the past releases that we're hoping to get transferred, pasture in the 80s was at 1.1 million, so 25% of land in 2015, that decrease to 750,000. And the trend is that pasture is just decreasing. And so one of our main messages is while dealing ours, mission is important. We also need to produce food so why don't we protect the land that is being productive in agriculture, and do reforestation and conservation, you know, on different areas of land so that food and keep
Shannon Sand:getting produced, I would think after COVID That would be something that is very evident given the fact that in Hawaii, I mean, I'm on Big Island. I know Jerry's on Baga. Lonnie, I think is to bow. It's like, we had lots and lots of shipping issues here this last year, year and a half now, I guess. And I mean, it was so important to have like access to like local foods, because you just couldn't get stuff. Yeah.
Unknown:If we had to, you know, we have something that's liquid edible, or you know, our acids and we're able to liquid it up quickly if we need to, you know, and that's one thing is, you know, if we ever have a problem if we ever have a hurricane, or we ever have something like that, that shuts down our food supply, we're unable to feed people. But if you take it out of agriculture and put it in conservation woman, the tag team on what Jerry said that why at 90 was started as was because of the saddle road realignment and mitigation. The deal in our apparently, is seeking this lease. I think more so than I think Jerry KK ranch and COPPA, Paula are the two leases that are being actively sought after, by the DLNR even though they tried to say not so. But now Brandon's piece on Maui again, actively after it. Um, but the thing that where the DLNR falls short, as we all do, is that when you you make a plan? You have to you have to implement it. And yes, not only do you have to build the plan, then the tires got to touch the pavement, you got to implement that plan. And then when things go wrong, you have to adjust. And that's, that's the way the world works. So at COPPA, Paula, I'm just going to digress a little bit 30 years ago, was a great idea to remove 1200 acres my dad was in full agreement with the Doha to remove these lands they were better for native forest, they were better for core reforestation. So we did we willingly said Yes, take these lands, we were compensated lease wise. But the DLNR was never able to bring this core reforestation to fruition it fell short of for many reasons and we all have many reasons was it environmental reasons i i didn't exactly follow the whole thing once that acreage was withdrawn but this this is where the KK ranch and couple Paula kind of goes side by side is it KK had 2000 of 5000 acres somewheres around Yeah, third right very of your, your total operation. And they had a plan just as this core couple polar quarry forestation, they started with a plan but as with plans didn't need to be implemented well the 1200 acres it couple Polit never went anywhere. They never harvested any of the deadwood they never got any regeneration of the old growth forest. So after that was 30 years ago the land was withdrawn so I don't know summer's around 15 years ago the land was repurposed and it was repurposed to now it's the cup Paula canoe forest area and still there's not been one canoe log taken out of there. So in to put this side by side with KK ranch now they're 2000 acres was started as helped me Jerry, the police ILA mitigation area. Yeah, they're trying to re establish the police cupboard on on the north east side of the island. Right and they never got anywhere with it. The police didn't come. It didn't move over there. So rather than giving a flat, they just flew back. They tried to relocate him and they didn't like it. So they flew back to the site,
Shannon Sand:or location,
Unknown:but rather than and put their land back, aka ranch. They repurpose. And now it is called the caller will know, what is it? You know, I can't remotely are cool Molly Carbon Project. Yeah. And so the breeze that Jerry was referring to it will at the current rate, it will take them another 130 years to reforest that 5000 acres. So, you know, this is, I think, where we as ranchers start to get a little emotional every time the DLNR tries to take more land is that weren't able to do what you talked about? Or what you started to do, you weren't able to do? So why do you need more? Or should we, you know, our, our, kind of our momentum now is how can we help you do more? So, but it's, it's a, you know, you can't get away from the three legged stool, the three legged stool is you've got to have the environment, the sociological environment, and the economics, those three legs of the stool, they don't have to be even. But they have to have some length to them. Otherwise, they collapse. And I think this is you know, we're in business, K, K, us, Parker. No, brigus se rants, all of us are in the same boat. And we have to abide by the three legged stool rule. I'm trying to ignore society. You know, we run 34,000 acres trying to ignore society. They will make sure that you know, they exist, they come climbing over fences, they'll break your water trust. We go the extra mile to make sure that getting to public hunting areas is easy. So going back to that three legged stool, I think this is what where the DLNR falls short whether it's the core management area, the core Canoe Area, or in kicking branches situation. The Polina mitigation or the poor Molly Carbon Project is the economic leg of that stool is beefed up enough to you know, Mother Nature never stops, she keeps managing land. right direction suits her, not suits us. And so I think that's where these lands that have been taken away. They fall short because of that economic component, because they are they rely on tax income tax base. And where are we in business? We we have to make sure that all three of those legs is shored up.
Shannon Sand:Right? Because otherwise you don't stay in business for very long, Ben. Yeah.
Unknown:No. Yeah. So that's my my now and I think that's what kind of ties the two ranches together is that we both have a lot of experience and lands being withdrawn. And, and ours goals. have they fallen short. And so when they come back at us as they did to cup Paula just three years ago, and wanted to remove another 1300 acres, or cool reforestation, we were like, Well, what about the last 100 acres? Yeah, but this time, this time, when they came at us, it was a very productive piece of ground for us it it would increase our cost of production by 30% 30 Oh my gosh, that was their choice of land that they wanted to withdraw. And so I'm big on cost of production. And, and yet, there's parts of this ranch and we've offered them in verbal, you know, meetings to Hey, what about this parcel? What about these acreage is because it will have less of an impact on our cost of production, and yet they're high elevation parcels, you know, 4400 foot elevation, that's ideal for cool. So, just we don't seem to be able to get to a table to draw things out. In in that note, too, mean, you know, we've been around this property for 30 years. And over the 30 years we've been, you know, we've done time, I mean, cost sharing with the federal government to help put waterholes in put fences and better manage or our pastures. And, you know, these ranchers that we're talking about if they've brought in millions of dollars, blondie folks have done reservoirs. And they've, we've brought in millions of dollars of federal revenue. And yet, dealing RS been on our property on the in the last 30 years, one time. And they've never come to us and said, Well, how about
Shannon Sand:three times, Lonnie?
Unknown:Or they never come to three? How about we work together? And who's never ever?
Shannon Sand:Yeah, cuz I would think that would be I mean, the optimal solution is to work with y'all, especially if the economic leg of their stool is not well funded.
Unknown:You hear from the ranchers, let me help you get what you need. Done. Because they see, the worry is that they see that DLNR doesn't have enough resources. And so that's why they're saying let us stay on the land and steward it well, but still work towards some of the goals that we have overlapping because there are overlapping goals between agriculture ranching and conservation.
Shannon Sand:Right. Yeah, it would make sense. I
Unknown:mean, I mean, we're, we're conservationists, when you come right down to it. I mean, if we don't manage our, our leases, well, yeah. It just you, we wouldn't be able to see business.
Melelani Oshiro:I know. Exactly. Exactly. I was like, that's one of the main things like I love to people ask me, you know, and stuff. And I'm like, Hey, I don't think a lot in the public and outside of folks that are not familiar with ranchers and whatnot, and how much conservation they actually do for the lands. You know, I
Shannon Sand:mean, there's a reason that like, people often call farmers and ranchers, the stewards of the land, I think this the public doesn't really realize like how much they like put into their land, and like, you know, and the perception of a whole conversation.
Unknown:I just want to comment on that is wait till a fire breaks out, the fires break out in their face, where were they set aside, and, and done nothing with? That's where the fires have so much fuel load, but who shows up with a letter to put them out? The ranchers show up water to put them in that vein, too, I mean, the acreage that they took away from us on the top now is so lush, it's so sick with vegetation. And then, you know, we've had fires up there, we've had lightning strikes. But that there's a lot of fuel up there now for for fires go through spark,
Melelani Oshiro:and it's such an a remote areas to that, you know, if there's a fire that goes on in there, how how can you manage that? You know, I mean, luckily, you know, in not luckily, but I mean, it's away from homes, in some in some areas, but in Lonnie, in your case case in those areas, it's not, you know, and that that that potential fire risk is is is an issue
Unknown:ohms but there was 4000 acres of the National Park of the Manalo strip road. Now this lands had been set aside for their native, you know, their natural areas. And but here, you know, going back to my three legged stool, the problem is that there's no economic value put on the properties. Now, if that was Georgia Pacific's 4000 acres, Georgia Pacific to the penny, how much money they could spend fighting that fire. That fire that broke out in 2018. The firefighters went home at six o'clock because there was no overtime to be paid to. Firefighters no overtime paid Now you tell me how can that be such a highly valued natural area? It does not even Yeah, generate. Guys, one guy two guys with a radio watching the fire. They had it stopped at one of the parks fire break roads. We were fighting the fire About a mile above, so we had no idea they had left. If they hidden my God, if they had even told us that they left, they had suppressed the fire at one of the fire break roads. And that night, it slowly creep through all the routes on the grass that was mowed. And it crept across the road. If one person, two people had been there that never would have ignited a whole nother 2000 acres of natural area. And so, you know, I just see that there has to be some economic value put on these natural areas.
Shannon Sand:They don't have well, like a natural resource, or something. So yeah.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah. And that's surprising, you know, I guess to me, too, right? You they're wanting the land back for something, but there's no value, you know, economic wise for you know, they're, they're not placing that value there. So it just doesn't, it doesn't jive, it doesn't make sense that you're gonna do those kinds of things, when it can be productive and have an economic value, someone's able to graze that land. Right. So that's
Unknown:what the what the deal is in, in part of, you know, they don't come out and say this, but you know, our because our lands are stewarded because our lands are clean. It makes it easy for them dealing are to come in and plant whatever they want to plan and do that kind of stuff. And so we're already cover on the week. Yeah. And, you know, they have other lands. But in order for them to do this, they would have to clear it and they don't have the resources to do it. So they want to take lands that that we've been managing, because it's easy for them to plan at that point. That even came testimony that even came out in the testimony chair case testified that the ranch lands are much more cost effective for them to reforest. So you're taking it out of agricultural production, you're taking all that land out of producing food for the state, and you're putting it in conservation when they already have conservation land that they're doing.
Shannon Sand:They don't have the funds to actually do what they need to do with it. Basically, it kind of sounds a little like,
Unknown:but I think we can actually have the best of both worlds. If you look at, okay, sometimes their reason for taking land out of agriculture is because they want to participate in the carbon market, right? They want to sequester carbon. Well, actually, well managed rangelands are sequestering carbon and they're actually sequestering carbon underground in the soil, which is a more stable form of sequestration than in a forest. And then if you look at reforestation, you know, Susan crow has a 2016 paper that kind of says, Let's be wary about reforestation, for the purpose of carbon carbon sequestration, because converting land from already well established pasture to a forest is yeah, one costly, takes a lot of our resources, but you're actually releasing carbon when you do that. So we kind of have to look at what the situation is, if your real reason is to sequester carbon. Ranchers can do that. We need to be able to give them the support to keep doing that. Rather than only looking at for sure, the best way to sequester carbon, yeah. Let's say that it is a calm on the surface, it looks easy, but it's a complex issue that these ranchers have been fighting for for decades. I still I've been focusing on this for two years, as one of my top priorities and I'm still learning more and more so it is the ranchers that know what the needs are. And it's it's trying to get the legislators and the decision makers and the government agencies to understand what's actually going on in the ground, because it's down on the ground from a kind of idealistic perspective.
Shannon Sand:Yeah, yeah. Well, because what you read on paper and what is happening, in reality on the ground can be very different yanks.
Unknown:For example, DLNR has said, Well, we've already been transferring leases, we've transferred over 19,000 acres over to doa. But if you take a step back and look and see, well, how many acres should be transferred. It's over 100,000 acres that should be considered for transfer. So it's a very small percentage is actually been done not so far. And none of these big leases with with acreage they've transferred. It's always all been small piecemeal. Yeah.
Shannon Sand:So they're just like 100 acres here and there kind of deal them are small.
Unknown:So yeah, the small ones that they don't have any interest in, they don't have ideas for reforestation, things like that. And that the danger is that they want to keep these large pasture leases, because they have the potential for reforestation, which means that they're looking at taking it out of agriculture, but they don't have the resources to do so successfully. So transfer transferring, it means that that land is for agriculture, not any other purpose. Right. The one of the problems that we as as leases of the DLNR have is that we rent our checks to the land division. And yet, Division of Forestry and Wildlife actively is on the properties. So we're kind of I know, for us, we're constantly torn between the land division who wants more money, and opha wants our use of the property. So in our case, we have been open for public bird hunting for 30 years. It's written into our lease, we're supposed to be justly stated for it. But we're not. And so as ranchers continue to fulfill the public purpose, we are not being compensated for all that we do. We have. So probably word hunting is from the first weekend in November, to the last weekend in January, every weekend, and every federal holiday comes to 31 days in a three month period, that we can't work. We can't work cattle, because the entire Ranch is open for bird bird hunting. And we're not rightfully compensated for the amount of public purpose of bird hunting. That's one the other is is public access to the forest reserves. kutlu and Chapala forest reserves are above us, approximately five miles above us. And so we have three points of entry for the public to access the Force Reserves. We used to answer the phone every night to get the callers and who wanted to go. But it just got to be too many people. And years ago, we hired an answering service to take the calls. Prior to COVID, the number of caller calls to go to the horse reserves was over 300 a month. Oh my gosh. And so that's the number of people they're traveling through. That's the number of calls. Now each car's got two people. That's the volume that's going through our property. And it needs to be managed, you know, Gates getting left open garbage being thrown. It takes time to manage this. And yet we're not compensated for it. We pay the answering service. We pay for the phones and all of the infrastructure so that the public can get to the areas easily. It's six to $700 a month. That's just well I'm sure that's just for public access.
Shannon Sand:Well, someone come clean up after him or something to that's
Unknown:well as additional couches say that our public accesses are some of the cleanest. You don't find rubbish thrown you don't find a band, of course, no abandoned vehicles, because there's checks and balances. We know who's going in, and they know. And so, all I'm saying is that the DLNR keeps trying to expand the public purpose beyond food production, like Jerry mentioned in the very beginning. They don't seem to want to acknowledge food production, but they want us to continue to expand hunting areas. You know, ranch work on the weekends, but to have 13 consecutive weekends. Republic hunting really puts a damper on what we do. We're willing to do it we feel socially that's that's the correct thing to do. But we feel we should be compensated fairly. Yeah. So I think, I think also the point is that if the ranch wasn't there during this management, doleful wouldn't be able to provide the resources to properly manage it. And either the public wouldn't get access, or they would get access and overrun lately. And they do would be a completely you know, if it was just an open gate, which is typically the way it happens, just unlock the gate, then use all your time, your money, cleaning up the mess, I've heard horror stories about Waiakea forest reserve and what it takes annually to go in there and clean up all the appliances and things that just get done. So I think we as ranchers, are trying to address the public purpose in a broader way than just food sustained, you know, food production, even though that's our primary focus. And yet, we're just, we don't get compensated we. Anyway, I think it comes down to prioritizing the support of the ranchers during this work. That's what the transfer would do to prioritize keeping them in business to do what they're doing is ranchers, we, we love doing what we do, otherwise, we wouldn't do it. And you know, Lonnie keeps saying, you know, we need to get compensated, yeah, we do. But bottom line is, if we don't love doing what we do, we wouldn't do it. We love the land, you know, and we try and do the best for for the land. And when I think of the lands that we've been stewarding for all these years, and it goes back past, you know, it goes back pass to Lonnie father, and her his her mother, that that stewarded it before her and then the people who, who had the lease before us taking care of those leases, but it goes back, you know, generations. And when I think of, of what DLNR does with lands that they take away, and how is they're not managed to just kind of, they're just kind of left to to, you know, I don't want to say fallow, but they're overrun with exotics, and that kind of stuff, because they don't have the management or the tools to manage what they do, it hurts my heart, you know, because we have such pristine pieces of land. And we we don't want to see it overrun, we don't want to see it taken over and become like how dealing RS properties are now you know, we want to keep them in the condition that we that we have them in or that we're working them in. I'm kind of a fun fact, my husband likes to put together all these little facts, but when he was thinking about this pandemic, how, how the pandemic happened and stuff if if all the ranchers you know, because we have, like I said, or resources or liquidated liquid dateable, I guess. But he figures if all the ranchers you know, we, we can we can we can harvest or call fouls, we can harvest or we nos we can do that. If there was any kind of disaster, he is he was figuring that the ranchers can feed the state for five months with what we have. So that's a that's a huge resource. You know, and we shouldn't be taking anything out of egg produce production, because we never know what's going to happen.
Shannon Sand:Because where we already have so little production in the state realistically, like I think over 90% of the food, what to say 95 But I feel like it's like at least 90% is in general not
Unknown:important. So and if something happens if there's a hurricane or or whatever, crops are not going to be there either. So that you know, but we can feed people and so we need to keep those lands in production. And you hate
Melelani Oshiro:when I think yeah, I think We've COVID We've learned a lot of that, right, having everything shut down for that whole, you know, the year and now everything has changed, we started to realize that the resources we have around us and I and, you know, it's been shown, you know, I mean, we already talked about how much you guys donated. So I just, it'll show for itself that, you know, we know, that pandemic, pandemic has told us that anything can happen. So
Unknown:what we need is we need the people, we need the general public, we need our lawmakers, we need them to understand that, you know, we need them to understand that just because they can go into a store and, and get what they want, and not necessarily. That's what's going to happen. So they need to be aware, and they need to be, you know, we need them to support us keeping these lands in agriculture.
Shannon Sand:I mean, I would hope the public recognizes that, but I think that we is not just extension agents, but people in like, the ag community have a lot of education that needs to happen with the public. That's just a personal opinion, not related to
Melelani Oshiro:one. You know, when Shannon, I started discussing this podcast, it was over a year ago. And that's kind of where we started to think that, you know, I think a lot of the public needs to understand and, you know, be able not just to share stuff with the stakeholders, and whatnot, but also to share your stories with everybody else, so that they understand what you're doing and your contributions to conservation and the lands that you focused in is very important. So
Unknown:where we like, is that we do need to share this story beyond just the ranchers it affects because it isn't just affecting the individual ranchers. This is affecting our state's ability to continue forward with our goals, one of which is to double food production. We are reaching out further thank you for this opportunity for for reaching out through this podcast, where we're trying to reach as many stakeholders as possible because it affects our whole spate our ability to produce agriculture.
Melelani Oshiro:Thank you, ladies so much for being here today. We really appreciate you sharing about the land lease issues and your production and your folks ranches, you know, and all the issues that you guys are facing here in Hawaii. So we sure hope that there's some resolution that DLNR can come to with Doa to get this resolved. And in the near near near future is what I'm going to say because I'm hoping it gets resolved sooner than later for sure you know, for everyone and
Shannon Sand:yeah, make sure to join our Facebook page, the livestock extension group if you haven't already, be sure to visit the U h CTAHR. Extension website and our YouTube channel listed in the show notes. And have a good day Mahalo.