In this episode we will be talking with Katelyn McCullock who is the Director and Senior Economist with the Livestock Marketing Information Center (LMIC). Katelyn has expertise in the areas of cattle, hog, dairy, hay and grain sectors. Listen in to hear about the impacts of Covid-19 on the livestock market, current livestock market status and much more!
If you have any questions feel free to contact us at walaau@hawaii.edu
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In this episode we will be talking with Katelyn McCullock who is the Director and Senior Economist with the Livestock Marketing Information Center (LMIC). Katelyn has expertise in the areas of cattle, hog, dairy, hay and grain sectors. Listen in to hear about the impacts of Covid-19 on the livestock market, current livestock market status and much more!
If you have any questions feel free to contact us at walaau@hawaii.edu
Additional Resources:
Thanks for listening! Check out our other social media platforms!
Today's episode is brought to you by the University of Hawaii College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources in the livestock extension group.
Melelani Oshiro:Hello, everyone and welcome to the livestock Walaau. Podcast Ames provide educational support information, guidance and outreach to our livestock stakeholders in Hawaii. We are your hosts Mele Oshiro, and Shannon Sand. Today we're going to discuss the effects of the pandemic on our livestock industry in the West. And to do this, we're going to introduce you to the director and senior economist for the Livestock Marketing Information Center. Katelyn McCulloch,
Shannon Sand:I'm very excited to introduce you to Caitlin from the LMI. See, Kaitlyn and I first met, I think it was like five to seven years ago, at a technical advisory committee meeting for LMI. C, if I recall correctly, I don't know it was awhile ago. Caitlin has expertise in the areas of cattle, hog, dairy, hay and grain sectors, basically, you name it, she has a good idea what's going on. She has a variety of publications covering things like market analysis, research and outlook. She has been a frequent presenter on national and regional levels, as well as through rural media outlets.
Melelani Oshiro:Caitlin Shannon has told me so much about what you do in such a great resource, I think for our ag industry, and a busy one giving all those presentations and whatnot. So she said some about what you do with the Livestock Marketing Information Center. But maybe you can just share a little bit more about it and how you came to be in your current position.
Katelyn McCullock:Sure. Well, thank you all very much for having me. I'm excited to talk to some Hawaiians. I haven't done that audience anytime recently, or probably maybe ever in the past. So I appreciate the opportunity. So the Livestock Marketing for Information Center has around since 1955. And it started as a cooperative grant through through USDA ers and has over the last I guess, close to 60 years, expanded to include most of the western states, as well as other USDA agencies, and we call them associates, but it's other industry associations. So what we are is we are a virtual center of excellence. And we have a website where we interact with a variety of data platforms, mostly with USDA data. But we're also a membership group, which includes 28, land grant universities 13 us or excuse me, 13 Associate members and eight USDA agencies. And so it's a little bit of a unique group. But we're we're fairly unique. And we're primarily focused on livestock marketing information. So we do things like predicate presentations, we have forecasts, we write a lot of market analysis, and try and try and push those out to folks like you that are looking for that type of information.
Melelani Oshiro:Can you share with us a little bit about how that market impacts that are occurring in the mainland states kind of affect, I guess, our local livestock markets here and cattle prices and such, you know, about 90% of our cattle, they especially in the state do get exported outside of the state and some folks retain ownership, some don't. So, you know, what can folks look at or expect, right when things change in the mainland? And how is that going to impact those animals that they're trying to sell?
Unknown:Well, that's a big question. And part of it is because over the last couple of years, we've had such large events overshadow markets. Yeah, that, you know, in a typical year, I might be talking about fairly smaller, you know, micro economies of corn in certain regions, or hay or drought. But in 2019, especially for the cattle industry, we started with that huge fire at a slaughter plant, which caused a lot of disruption. And then not that, you know, for six months later, we had COVID-19, which had its own set of events. And now this year, we're still dealing with some lingering impacts from COVID-19. But we're also dealing with things like drought, extremely high feed costs, and things like that. So it's difficult maybe to tease out one thing versus another, but I like to group them into a couple of areas. When we think about the pandemic and what sort of impacts were there, there were shorter term impacts when we had things like labor shortages, and the plants just could not operate even though there are plenty of cattle hogs, chickens available. You saw that slowdown and that disruption. You saw that bottleneck happen at the slaughter facility. And I don't know about your grocery stores, but our shelves got there. And then we kind of had weird stuff where you'd be able to buy some things one week other things.
Shannon Sand:Were still there sometimes to be honest here. I don't know about mele where you are over there. But I was like over here like sometimes it's still pretty difficult. So we've had lots of shipping issues.
Unknown:And so the logistical impact which is is not something we typically cover has been one of those lingering things. Now maybe we don't see those shortages quite as much as the grocery store. But things like cold storage were affected where you're wondering what the capacity is in those areas. And we're still dealing with some lingering labor impacts. If you look at the slaughter levels, across across the species, they haven't quite max to previous numbers and a lot of that you're still dealing with absenteeism, a little bit of maybe reluctance to come back to those slaughter plants and work and work those shifts as we saw in the past. And I don't know how quickly that aspect will be resolved. But it's one that's really difficult to monitor from, at least from a livestock economists perspective. Another thing I'd like to kind of start, if I can keep keep talking here, keep going. Yeah, is the is the demand side of things. So demand, we don't have a great measure for how much people are eating beef, or chicken or pork. It's something we calculate after the fact. And during COVID, we have this huge, huge surge in people coming to the grocery store buying a lot of meat. We saw shortages of like things like freezers where people just wanted to
Shannon Sand:Yeah, you couldn't get them here to save your life for a little while there. You still can't,
Melelani Oshiro:your refrigerator freezer goes out. Now you're waiting at least two months for something. And it might be there. But they just, it's just limited on how they're going to get that freezer out to you. So yeah, that was another
Unknown:thing with that too, like appliances are are not easy to find, or at least maybe the model you want. And so then you have this low, though everyone's resourceful, you had plenty of meat, you're cooking at home. And now this year, we've seen a lot more demand for restaurant style cuts. So if you think about a lot of times as as an economist, I think about beef, chicken, pork, but really, when you're a consumer, you're thinking about steak ground product, you know, chicken wings, versus chicken, breast, pans, etc. So it's not one thing. And those all have their own demand and supply changes as well. And some of those are more preferred by restaurants, or maybe Leaper firm I should say when we go. And so restaurant pipeline refilling has been one of those big topics we've talked about that is a little bit harder to see, and maybe the bigger data points that we sometimes look at, because it's such a specific cut and, and things like that,
Shannon Sand:well, and there's only so many of those cuts on whatever animal it is whether that's like, I feel like chicken breasts or chicken wings is a good example. If you're going to like a restaurant if you want like wings or chicken breasts or like a steak or whatever. And is that related to the fact that we can kind of I say, kind of depending on where you're at travel again, because I feel like we've definitely had a lot of tourism come back here and in like what I would consider I mean, we have I've been told and mele, you can correct me both, like we have some of the highest tourist numbers we've had, especially on Big Island where we're at. Yeah, can like I think ever are yours. It seems like there was a lot of people.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, our numbers are a lot higher. And they they're saying that than normal visitation, even, you know, pre pandemic, so.
Unknown:And I think that does play a role, particularly when you think about portions. Or at least, and this might not be true for everyone. But when I cook a steak at home, I might only eat half or my husband and I will split it. When we go to a restaurant you know, I'm order I'm ordering a steak that's much larger than probably I would be cooking and I'm not taking much home, let's put it that way. But and to where where you're going what types of hospitality you're engaging in, because it's not just travel and tourism, if you think about all the business travel that had conferences that that would serve a lot of particular meat cuts at luncheons versus dinners, you know, all those types of events have yet to come back. And one of the ones we are seeing though is is personal travel. I was in the airport the other day and it it was a lot less business travel for a Monday than maybe I would have seen two years ago. And and so I think folks are excited to get out there and we're seeing a little pent up demand there. The big question is, are we really going to see that continue? Does that have a lasting impact through through the rest of 2021 as well as next year? Right? Right. And beef is probably a little more heavily and lamb is more heavily tied to that restaurant sector and so we see that consumption move around a little bit more than chicken or egg or porque. And so you could have different effects there, too, depending on how much we're switching back and forth between restaurants and at home. I know that I really enjoyed some of the savings I got from not going out to eat so much. But I've very quickly gone back to my old ways of not wanting to cook often. Yeah.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, especially when you get busy, it's hard not to want to just go and get something before you head home. So
Shannon Sand:yeah, yeah, it's nice to have the convenience factor again to be on. So yeah,
Melelani Oshiro:yeah. You talk so much about the pandemic. Great. And what you see happening over the next, you know, couple of years foresee for the livestock industry as a whole, you know, over the next few years, and I don't know what your what is your take on things and seeing how how things are right now. I mean, other thing going on I know is the drought. Right? The drought is another huge impact that's influencing the livestock industry right now in the West. Yeah. And I mean, it's occurring here, too. You know, we've been in drought. Now, as I say that it's been raining for the past week. But you know, it's still it's different
Shannon Sand:being a drought here than it is another Yes, and
Melelani Oshiro:definitely, but maybe you can share a little bit about that with us.
Unknown:Well, let me take the marketing forecast question first. And then if I then we can come back to the drought one, and you can remind me, but so one of the things we are looking at right now is that COVID, still in the back of our mind. But I think we've learned a lot as the US we've learned a lot across the world about different supply chain pinch points and things we can do differently. And so even with a resurgence, I'm not expecting quite the same sharp, sharp reaction that we saw last spring, I just don't see that happening. Now, obviously, who've been wrong. Last year was wrong a lot as we tried to change these numbers
Shannon Sand:are all wrong a lot like I was like, no one could have predicted the like what I would call the Great TP shortage of 2020. We'll just have stockpiles of stuff. And some people, you couldn't find it. So yeah.
Unknown:But the couple of things I would keep in mind that are going to be longer term trend implications is that even before the pandemic, the beef cattle cycle was in, it was in a decline. And we saw in last week's report, or I'm sorry, in the July inventory report, that beef cow numbers are continuing to fade largely because of some of that drought implication that you mentioned. But that's going to really challenge cattle supplies moving forward. And our price projections for cattle prices, both on the Fed side and feeder side are to continue to increase over the next two to three years. You know, probably somewhere close to 5% on the low end, and and and moving up higher from there, depending on kind of how bad this drought continues to weigh on that cow herd. Now, if you look at the hog side, we also saw reduction in sound numbers in the last hogs and pigs report. And so both of those are pointing towards tighter supplies moving forward. That should be rather supportive of those live animal prices. On the chicken side, we've seen that that production system can change a lot faster. And so you're talking more in weeks, and they're going to adjust based on profitability, as they know more about feed costs and demand that's going to change much faster than those other two industries. And what they're looking at right now is how this crop has developed, how it is going to develop and what sort of profitability margins they're looking at moving forward. And so all of those things are going to feed into how producers what how producers can make money, what sort of implications are there at the wholesale level. Now we've talked already about demand, as those baseline costs go up, a lot of that's going to be passed on to the consumer. In the news, there's been some talk about inflation. And so you could see a pullback on the consumer level, from a price standpoint, but we don't know necessarily how big that's going to be or how large that inflationary pressures going to get. But from a strictly supply fundamentals standpoint, we are probably looking at higher prices for the next two to three years on beef. And definitely the next year or so on pork. On the drought side, As Molly mentioned, the West is is very, very dry. You are seeing hay prices in particular, escalate to levels seen closer to that 2011 12 drought. We may have Eclipse some of those in certain areas. I mean, you have to remember hay is such a regional crop, it's not going to get transported long distances. And so it becomes very difficult when you're extremely short. To do much about it. Now. If you're talking about dairies, maybe you can substitute away some of that, but the truth is all feed costs have really come up this year and so That's, that's been the struggle for a lot of these businesses as how quickly they've escalated. And, and how that's wearing wearing on those numbers. We've already seen quite a bit of beef cow slaughter come out of the western states, a lot of the forage grazing capacity in California was not really existed this year, while those animals already had to move on. And it's still something it's something we're continuing to watch. Now, the cattle inventory report said, suggested that the beef cow numbers were down about 2%. That's a pretty big decline. For the July one number, we'll get another estimate on January one, but the calf crop was estimated to only be slightly below a year ago. I would expect that to be a little bit larger based on that beef cow number when when we finally get the full year tally.
Shannon Sand:Well, that sounds like it's actually good news for beef producers and pork producers over the next year or so if nothing else, the price is up a little bit. But with everything going on, who knows how expensive it is to feed them out this kind of what I take away from it. So right, right. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about the export market. Katelyn?
Unknown:Yeah, as the we talked about the US coming out of pandemic and all of these changes to tourism and eating patterns change that's also happening all over the world. All these other countries are experiencing their own reopening and coming to terms with their new normal, etc. They may also be dealing with different resurgences and how their vaccine programs are going. And one of the things that's been a real bright spot this year has been the export market for us, particularly beef has been really strong. So USDA has released numbers through May at the time of this recording. And we are up about
Shannon Sand:18% Oh, that's really really good. Wow.
Unknown:beef and veal exports on a carcass weight. Work is about even with a year ago. Now that might not sound that exciting. But last year, we had a record high pork export number. And so for us to maintain that is, is excellent. And so it's been interesting to watch different countries consuming patterns and and those changes now, before COVID. We were talking about African swine fever in China. And that was one of the big market drivers on the pork side that you had a resurgence during some of these timeframes. And their protein demand has continued to climb as those impacts have been felt by the country in different times in different ways. And so for us to maintain that record high level, not only to China, but also to continue to increase to other countries is a huge boom for US exports of pork in and beef beef two has been a big ticket item for Chinese for the Chinese to import. And they are very quickly outpacing some of our key markets already. Oh, wow.
Shannon Sand:That's really good.
Melelani Oshiro:So I guess another question I think a lot of people come and ask about, I guess is how to prepare right for future market upsets or changes, similar to something that happened in a pandemic. I mean, we hope we don't ever have to have to deal with something that extreme again, but for you know, folks in smaller markets like us here, like I said, most of our big art cattle is exported, but everything here, you know, all the other other smaller livestock typically stay here. So is there what kind of advice or where resources that you folks provide that folks can go to to try and kind of, you know, prepare themselves for different, you know, different markets or things that they can look at as far as their market for their animals and their prices? I guess, you know, to say,
Shannon Sand:I may be one of the hardest things for around here. So yeah.
Unknown:So we typically follow mostly USDA Agricultural Marketing Service prices. And so they cover all the major markets in the US. And you can see that regionally different different states, or even some of the bigger livestock states, you can even see smaller options than that that they cover. So it depends on what you're looking for. From a it is very difficult to prepare for a black swan event, because it's usually not something you can see coming and the impact is just so great. It's very difficult to plan ahead for the things that we probably tend to talk about more are the more regular sort of problems you might have like drought or you know, having risk management that you can use to try and mitigate increasing feed costs, which quite frankly, in the latest run up probably only helped you for so long, because that time period went longer than maybe you would have locked in for and so some of these things are very hard to protect against. I think the best thing you can do is kind of think at trying to think through some of those scenarios. What would you do With if this this and this happen, are there things you can do like have more hay on hand than normal or, or retain ownership, if it looks like it's going to pencil out. And just going through that thought process, it doesn't mean necessarily, you're going to practice the same things every single year. But I think those are all good at least pen and pen and paper type of exercises, for producers to know whether their breakeven costs are what it's going to take. I guess some of the logistical things that have happened in the last two years are again, very difficult to, to figure out. And that's where I guess I sit back and wonder, you know, I don't know necessarily how you how you combat some of those things. The pandemic has brought up a lot of policy questions about the number of slaughter plants we have and where they're located, and how do we ensure that that flow of, of product maintains and yeah, some of those are still being debated. And so there may be such solutions that come out of this, that help that help some of those situations, so you wouldn't have quite the disruption that you did? Yeah, the US is very much built on a just in time system where delivery and case ready is, is a big part of that market. And switching gears was not possible or easy, depending on the commodity. If you look at the dairy industry, I mean,
Shannon Sand:especially with consolidation and vertical integration of the different like, depending on the protein market, you're talking about, like? Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's brought up a lot of interesting questions. And like, just things that like you can like, if you've got people hanging around, kind of like this was like, you just talk, I feel like I could talk about that for hours. It's like, you can smell like we've done it. Because it is just one of those things that like, you know, this is how it's been set up. And it's kind of evolved over time. And like, it's just so interesting to see how things have like, changed or like perspectives, I would say potentially have shifted, shifted a little over the last year and a half or so.
Unknown:And a lot of those changes require large investments, you know, these Yeah, the supply chains weren't built overnight, and the changes to them will also not be built overnight. No, yeah. It's very expensive to build a new slaughter plant, it's expensive to change the way you do business, when you're well set up for how it curves, how it used to be. To those can be difficult questions to answer and sometimes painful processes to adjust as well.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, we talked a lot about just like I know, we're mostly talking about grain fed animals here. But can you talk any about the grass finish market and beef cattle in the US because we
Unknown:get this question too. Unfortunately, there's not that much data out there. And we specifically focus on more commodity type products, in part because that's where all the data is. And so I don't have a great handle on maybe you know, what those premiums are like, or how much how much production we have in those. But the consumer seems to be moving COVID was a little bit of blip in this march towards knowing more about food and caring more about things like raising practices and non carcass merits and things like that. I don't think COVID changed it as much as maybe interrupted it for a little while. And we're seeing a return to wanting to know more about food and animals and where they're coming from and how they're raised, how they're harvested, etc. And I think the grass fed market is well positioned to capitalize on some of that. I just visited New England last week, and that is an area where they they do quite a bit of that grass fed product. And sometimes I think it's difficult to see those markets in supermarkets as much. But if you look at specialty foods, stores and things like that whole foods offers a variety of different racing practices in their stores as well.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where a lot of ours is, well, we don't even have a whole foods in our island, but it is on two of the other islands in the state. And majority of the grass fed. I know there's a few producers here that follow different protocols. So that can be into that market. But yeah, I think that's important thing, you know, and I don't I don't think consumers understand. The real reason why grass finishes a little bit more expensive, you know, they and you go in there, your family, you know, you've tried to feed your family, you're going to choose one over the other. And you typically the price is what they said. They said, Yeah, so yeah, yeah. So
Unknown:do you see that changing as commodity beef becomes more expensive?
Melelani Oshiro:I see what I've noticed, I think during the pandemic was a lot of folks reached out, I think, to just the local processes. I think they opened their mind and realizing You know, there's a local source here of beef that we can get, or even other proteins, you know, and that's where folks went, I mean, we buy, you know, from going to the folks that were at the farmers market or whatnot. And I don't think those other consumers had really thought about, you know, you just typically go to the grocery store and get it, you know, and then when he couldn't, then they had to kind of think outside of the box, where else are we going to get our beef? Or where else we're gonna get our pork? And, you know, then that's kind of opened up some of the other markets, I think, and for other folks that were selling locally, so
Unknown:yeah, they now I'll still have big freezers to to fill so they exactly are my direct.
Shannon Sand:Well, I mean, I know an interesting thing here is, is we do have, we have quite a small slaughter, like processing capacity in the islands, because, like, I only know of the ones here and a wahoo. That's the that's all we do. Are there any on like us? They're solid on Maui? Yeah, it's, it's pretty minimal processing capacity here, which is a lot of the reason that they also end up shipped off, as well as it's probably it's a lot less expensive to feed them out that way, too.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah. I mean, there are two others. I think there's one, there's one on Kauai and there's one in Mullica II. And then, of course, there's Maui. But they're like you said their capacity is smaller. Our island is only one that I think has to slaughter USDA certified slaughter units. And then we do have the mobile slaughter unit. But that's under a coop. And that does not have a breakdown or processing fabrication unit. So you can't they only take it to a quarter at the most. And that's it. So and then our other one is on the other big ones on the wall. So yeah, but are two of our units, one on the Big Island and the other one on the wall are just recently got purchased by a new owner. So they're anticipating to expand capacity. And they want to so that I you know, we're hoping that that'll help our grass finish market here and those folks that are in that in that avenue to be able to have those slaughter dates they want and whatnot. So the idea is try to keep more of our beef and animals here in the state, too. But I don't I don't know if we'll ever reach that point. We're still exporting a lot. I think
Unknown:we've seen a lot of interest in expanding existing facilities as well. And there's, there's quite a few plan that are going to add capacity to current plants. And I think there's a couple of new ones that are being talked about. Some of them are more smaller and regional. But I think more capacity is heading our way. Yeah. But that timeline is is protected time next year.
Shannon Sand:Yeah. Cuz I was like, over the last I think I mean, I don't know how much people realize. But over the last I would say like, decade or two, I was like there was a like contraction in terms of not in terms of like, the amount that could be processed, but just in terms of like where it's located and stuff. And so I mean, like you spoke about Caitlin I that was a big part of the bottlenecks is when we had outbreaks and stuff like they had shut down to clean or whatever, because I know, like when I lived in South Dakota, I know Sioux Falls had a couple of different outbreaks for that they're like, large pork processing facility. And so they were shut down quite a bit depending, you know, when everything was rolling through. So I mean, I think that is an interesting discussion to be had. So yeah, and even after
Melelani Oshiro:they came up there were they limited as well on amount of workers right in a certain area, because now they had to have a certain amount of space between them or, you know, screens or whatever, that I'm sure that limited the amount of workers that they're able to have and that limits the amount of animals or numbers they can push through and I'm thinking great as pre pandemic numbers, right.
Unknown:The big changes we saw and you're absolutely right this spacing and personal protective. I don't know if you want to call them fixtures but also you are included in that happened on the fabrication floor. And so you saw that slowed down significantly how they broke down those carcasses. That was one of the reasons wings got so expensive was the breaking down of those wings from the chicken itself was more difficult to do. Now in general poultry plants are a little more automated, have a little bit less hands on then then cattle and hog plants. But all of those things where it requires a lot of workers working on the line and dividing and fabricating that carcass or that primal intercuts became significantly slower and you saw that in some of the meat pricing data.
Shannon Sand:Do you have any other exciting news that you think might be on and down the pipeline? I was like, I'm just excited to hear that prices are probably gonna be pretty good for most of us.
Unknown:Yeah, no, I think it's it's, it's not often you would say what you almost hope for a less exciting 2022, right? Yeah, no 2021 was definitely better than 2020. We still, at least for the first half of the year, we're dealing with quite a few unknowns. Still some ripple effects, some shorter shortages, or maybe not shortages, the right word, but bottlenecks, etc. And I'm, I'm thinking by the end of 2021, almost all of those things will have calmed down significantly to the point where maybe we aren't talking about them every our presentation and things like that, that maybe there'll be gone gone. Yeah. But that most of what we're going to be focused on, and I think this drought is going to overshadow a lot of marketing conversations. Next year 2% decline in beef cows is quite a bit. And that means that by 2022, you're gonna have significantly smaller cattle supplies out there.
Shannon Sand:And it takes longer to build a cow herd back up than it does for hogs or poultry. Because poultry, what it's? Is it six to eight weeks from like, hatching to like processing? And then hogs are? Is it I want to say somewhere between six months and a year, depending on the characteristics of your product you're doing? And then cattle are anywhere from 18 to 24 months? So it's a much longer cycle in terms of building out that like capacity again, yeah, yeah. And especially
Unknown:when you have a liquidation that's forced by drought. When things turn around, those replacement heifers get very expensive. And it it can be difficult to buy back in. And so there's, you know, some of the, I don't know what the perfect strategy is, but something to think about in the back of producer's minds is how you how you might want to increase your cow herd when the time's right hand up. Maybe you can do that.
Shannon Sand:Yeah. How do you keep those replacement heifers through a drought and things that you like? So hold on to as much as you can for when the good times come back around? Yeah, that's kind of the hard thing to plan for, though, you know, with droughts and weather and like, just everything. So.
Melelani Oshiro:Yeah, it's not something you can always predict. Right. So. Well, thank you so much, Caitlin, for joining us today and sharing your expertise with us. We really appreciate it. Taking that time out of your schedule, because I know you're a very busy lady. Yes, thank
Shannon Sand:you very much.
Unknown:Well, thank you all for having me. I'm gonna I'll give my shameless plug. We do have more new market commentary every two weeks on the LMI C dot info website. If you ever if your listeners ever want to check it out. It's a it's a. It's every two weeks that we do a new newsletter, but that's free on the front page. If anyone ever wanted to take a look at what we're what we're discussing
Melelani Oshiro:one day, we'll see if we can get you over to avoid do a yeah, do something with our outlook and whatnot in our markets. You're really good. That'd be great. Yeah,
Shannon Sand:make sure to join our Facebook page, the livestock extension group. If you haven't already, be sure to visit the H CTAHR. Extension website in our YouTube channel listed in the show notes.
Melelani Oshiro:or additional information about this topic see LMI C and the U H. CTAHR. website listed in our show notes of the podcast and the description box on our YouTube page. Thanks again everyone for listening to the livestock Wala'au Before we
Shannon Sand:go show some love for your favorite podcasts. That's us by the way by leaving us a review on Apple podcasts and anywhere you listen to this, then stay tuned for next month's podcast.
Melelani Oshiro:We hope everybody