Livestock Wala'au
Welcome to the Livestock Wala’au podcast. Brought to you by the Livestock Extension Group of the University of Hawaii Manoa College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resources and the Center for Ag Profitability of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. A podcast aimed to provide educational support, information, guidance and outreach to livestock stakeholders in Hawaii and the rest of the U.S. Hosted by Extension Professionals Melelani Oshiro of UH Manoa CTAHR & Shannon Sand of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln.
Livestock Wala'au
S4 Ep10: From Non-Dedicated to Dedicated: How Hawaii's Agricultural Tax Changes Impact Your Farm
Councilmember Heather Kimball details Hawaii County's agricultural tax program changes designed to prevent land speculation while supporting legitimate farmers and ranchers through targeted tax benefits.
• New requirements for non-dedicated agricultural land programs include upfront documentation of legitimate farming activities
• The current non-dedicated ag program is sunsetting in 2026, with two replacement options: a 10-year program (lowest tax rates) or 3-year program (more flexibility)
• Farmers must submit documentation like organic certifications, farm plans, or NRCS agreements
• Qualifying agricultural activities must generate $2,000 annual income or follow standard industry practices
• New programs allow farmers who live on their land to receive both ag land valuation benefits AND homeowner tax class benefits (including 3% valuation cap)
• Property owners must apply by September 1st each year for the following tax year
• Application forms and information available on the Real Property Tax website
• County is exploring creating a curated list connecting landowners with farmers seeking land to lease
• Future initiatives aim to convert small subdivision ag lots to rural designation while maintaining tax benefits for those farming smaller parcels
For questions about Hawaii County's agricultural tax programs, contact the Real Property Tax Department or email Councilmember Heather Kimball at heatherkimball@hawaiicounty.gov.
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Aloha. Today's episode is sponsored by the Livestock Extension Group out of the University of Hawaii Manoa College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, the Center for Ag Profitability out of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln and the Western Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program.
Speaker 3:Aloha and welcome to the Livestock Palau, a podcast aimed to provide educational support, information, guidance and outreach to our livestock stakeholders in Hawaii and the US. We are your hosts, Belay Oshiro and Shannon Sand, and today we're talking with Heather Kimball, who is in the Hawaii County District 1 Councilmember. Thank you very much for joining us today. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's good to be here. Yeah, so maybe we'll just start a little bit if you want to just share with everyone a little of your background and your current position.
Speaker 4:Yeah, happy to. So my name is Heather Kimball. I'm a Hawaii County Council member serving my third term now for District 1, which starts just outside of Hilo at the Singing Bridge, goes all the way up to Waipio and even covers a small portion of the Waimea area. My background actually is not as a politician but as a scientist. My first career was actually as a geneticist, working for Lawrence Berkeley National Lab on the Human Genome Project.
Speaker 4:I then went and got a master's degree in tropical conservation and environmental science, where I worked on decision support tools for land use management, which sounds like a technical field, but actually it's really just using GIS data geographical information to improve decision-making around land use. And then you know, through my work with that, what I discovered is many people in policymaking positions and decision-making positions don't use databases and information for making good decisions, and so I understood that. You know, if I wanted to really make a difference in how we considered land use and the related issues to that, including agriculture, I needed to understand and be in a decision-making position, and that's how I ended up running for office and serving here in the county council. In addition to that work, I've also worked for the College of Ag at the University of Hawaii at Hilo, as well as CTAR doing various projects mostly related to the genetics, but also looking at some other issues in terms of crop diseases. So I do have some background with the College of Ag here in Hilo.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which I didn't know when I met you at the meeting and we talked a little bit about that, that's you know. So I always say small world right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I will say, even though I have this background in agriculture, I do not farm and I have tried to grow things and I have a black thumb. So, despite the plethora of education that I have around biology and making things live, I'm not very good at it, so I have a lot of respect for people who can keep things, whether it be plants or animals, alive.
Speaker 2:I was just saying. I was like I have better luck with animals than plants, so we all have our specialties. Yeah, so can you tell us about some updates for non-dedicated ag land? What is it and what does it mean for, like Hawaii County producers potentially? I know that was a lot of questions in one, but I'm just going to throw it out there so yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 4:I'd like to actually start, if I may, with some background. You know, first of all, you know the the reason that we started looking at the ag tax programs is because, back in 2012, they were identified by an external audit as areas that had potential for fraud, waste and abuse in terms of our tax code policy. And, subsequent to that audit, there were working groups, there was a report that was produced in 2019, but no real code changes had been implemented. And so, in conjunction with those things that happened within the county, there were various ag assessments done of particularly the Hummelkuhl region that I represent, as well as the county at large.
Speaker 4:And again, one of the things that was identified as an issue for our local farmers and ranchers is the issue of speculation on ag land and how that speculation drives up costs in terms of folks looking for land to purchase and build a farm on, or people just looking to lease land, and so, um, that's what we started looking at making modifications to the programs and, in particular, the non-dedicated ag program is where, um, we've seen, you know, historically, the most abuse, and you know it's it's I. I don't want to like point fingers at anybody for anything, but it's very, very easy to basically park your money here in Hawaii in land, so you know you can invest for a 20 acre parcel fence, it stick a cow on, it, say I'm farming, and you're going to pay the minimum tax of 200 a year and you're always going to make money on that if you're an investor, because I mean, we have similar issues for certain things in Nebraska where yes, yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2:I would like people use it as an inflation hedge investors who have lots of money in large portfolios. We don't need to say name names, but yes, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it is a national problem and in fact, you know what I learned through all of this going.
Speaker 4:There was an international sorry, yeah, it wasn't international but there was an international tax assessors meeting which I went to and I was fascinated to learn that this is a problem internationally and that actually Hawaii has some of the better programs, which I thought actually was interesting. We were highlighted in a document that they had that talked about the different programs. So it is certainly a challenge and that's really what we were trying to do with this is basically ensure that folks that are using the, the ag dedication programs, to take advantage to get some tax benefits for the ownership and use of that land that they're actually doing farming right, um, and, and that's that's kind of the fundamental purpose. How that manifests is basically we're asking for the documents up front and that there's many different forms of documentation that we'll take.
Speaker 4:But I had somebody say so you basically mean there's more bureaucracy and it's like, yeah, basically, but we've tried to make it as simple as possible, because one of the things we recognize is that farmers and ranchers don't have a lot of time to do paperwork, and so we wanted to make it as straightforward and simple as possible by, in you know, taking various forms of documentation that they might already have. So if they have, for example, an organic certification or a food safety certification or they worked with NRCS to do a soils plan or some kind of farm plan with NRCS, we'll take all those documents and they don't have to do anything else. If they don't have any of those documents, we'll take a farm plan and that we have a form that's available on the Real Property Tech's webpage that folks can fill out and they can submit that as an alternative to any of those other documents. But they don't need to do a FAR plan if they have those other resources.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a good thing to say, because Shannon and I have sort of in some of our podcasts really kind of honed in on record keeping and just basic things right Like you can and some of those records I mean. That's part of why I was hired at UH.
Speaker 3:Apply, yeah, apply across different programs, right. So it makes it a little bit easier for you when you can be able to use some of those other documents. So and so I'm just going to kind of go from you know, we talked about the ag, so what, what's, what's sort of the steps then I think, what people have to producers have to take, right, I mean, I'm sure there's deadlines when all all paperwork needs to be submitted. So you want to talk maybe a little bit about the steps and sort of those deadlines that they have to meet to be able to get.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you. So you know most people that are in the ag programs if they're going to be, if they they're pretty secure that they're going to be doing it for a while they really should look at the 10-year dedicated ag program. And that program is available. You can apply now. Or if you're not in that program now, you need to apply before September to make it take effect in the next tax year cycle. Okay, so that's true for all of the different programs. September 1st is the deadline to apply.
Speaker 4:The 10-year program is going to give you a lower valuation for most of the land than the other. It's going to give you the lowest valuation. The restriction with the 10-year program is that there is a deed restriction that's filed with the Bureau of Conveyances that says that you have to keep that property in ag for 10 years. Now it doesn't mean you can't sell it. You can sell it. But then the new buyer will have to sign an affidavit that they will finish out that 10-year term. If they don't, after it's been sold and they've signed the affidavit, you don't have any responsibility. That's on them.
Speaker 2:That would be on them.
Speaker 4:If you want to sell it without and breach that, that 10 year dedication, you would be liable for back taxes and penalties. But you know you can add that to the sales price if that's really the way that you feel you have to go. But the objective of all of these plans is to keep ag land in ag and productive Right. So that's what we're trying to encourage and that's why we're giving a tax benefit. Right, there is a benefit here. The next, the other program. So if you're in the non-dedicated ag program, that program is sunsetting and it's sunsetting in 2026. So you have to, by September 1st of 2026, decide which program you want to be in.
Speaker 4:So you can either, if you're in non-dedicated ag right now, you'll stay in non-dedicated ag until your application for a new program is accepted and you have the choice of the 10-year program or the three-year short-term program. The short-term program the valuations are twice what they are, so double the 10-year program. Tax benefits therefore are not as great but still pretty good when you compare it to market values here in Hawaii. And you don't have that deed restriction. You only have the three years. And actually, the way we've written, we've written in fallow period, so you actually can do one of those three years if you're rotating crops. If you need a fallow period, one of those can be a fallow period.
Speaker 2:So in the 10 year there's not a fallow period. No, there's also 10 year. Okay, cause I was just like man that's. I mean again, the mainland is very different than Hawaii in terms of fallow periods and how long they are and stuff.
Speaker 4:If I recall Millie correct me if I'm wrong yeah, With the 10 year program it's kind of it's like if you added the three year dedication into 10 years, you get one fallow period every three years and you would write that into your farm plan. So you want to make sure that you document in your farm plan if you're going to have fallow periods in your rotation, because what you don't want to have happen is the tax inspector come out and say, hey, there's nothing going on here, it's an empty field. But if you can show them, oh, look, in our farm plan it says we're doing a fallow period every three years. This is that fallow period and this is what we've done the previous two years, Then you don't have to worry about that.
Speaker 2:Can the one year fallow period over the three years be broken up in like three or four month chunks throughout the season over those three or four? Mellie, you know what I'm trying to say here don't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, not a solid year, but I mean, I know it's not done there as much, but who knows what crops will.
Speaker 2:I mean, there's all kinds of stuff that can be grown, so yeah, yeah, there are always more less productive periods during the year or two.
Speaker 3:So well, that's true too, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I think that the way that it is worded, that you could interpret it that way. Okay, so like a cumulative year um per every three years the main thing is that it's written into your farm plan as yeah, yeah, you want to be able to write it and have it there, just for reference, um should there ever come any questions.
Speaker 4:The same thing comes for um folks that are rotating animals like yeah that was going to be my next question, yeah so if one of the things that is permitted is that you can apply for the tax benefits for multiple tmks that are not contiguous so they don't have to be next to each other, so if you're somebody that is rotating, you know sheep between three different TMKs you can apply under one farm plan for all three TMKs. But you want to notate that you're rotating those sheep, because if you say you know the county does use satellite imagery right to verify that folks are doing what they're saying they're doing, and so if they capture the one field when there's no sheep in it because you rotated them to another location, you want to make sure that there's just clear documentation that, oh, this is what we're doing, they're rotating between these three TMKs. So if it comes up on the satellite, oh, there are not any animals there right now, well, it's because they're at one of the other three locations.
Speaker 3:And that was part, I guess, part of the question I was going to ask too what exactly, what's the definition of agriculture, production on those lands you know and what there's? I mean because I know from past times poultry wasn't included in some considered as livestock and whatnot is. So what's exactly when you talk about dedicated to ag? What is their definition for that?
Speaker 4:Yeah. So this is one of the points that I think frustrates a lot of people, because the definition is not super succinct, and the reason for that is there's so many different types of agriculture it is hard to have one definition that covers everything, but there's a few key components. The first of all is, I would just generally say, the tax benefits. The tax programs are for farming, not gardening, and they're for animals that are going to be utilized in some way, but not a pet right? You don't get those benefits for pets and this is something that has actually been true under the non-dedicated ag program, maybe not enforced per se, but the non-dedicated ag program says that this is not meant for home use or recreational use. Okay, so that's one point is to look at the rules with respect to the definition. The other thing that we say is that I'm going to read this from Chapter 19. This is under the definition section. So this agriculture activities shall mean farm operations that may include multiple parcels that need not be contiguous, which I mentioned, may include multiple parcels that need not be contiguous, which I mentioned that generate income, monetary gain or economic benefit in the form of money or money's worth.
Speaker 4:So it does cover, it does allow for bartering. It doesn't have to be the actual exchange of cash For a minimum of $2,000 per gross or sorry, annual gross income per farm operation or this is an important or or adhere to generally accepted standards or recognized practices within that agricultural industry. So when you go to the farm plan you'll see that there's a box that says do you have $2,000 annual gross income or money's worth, money's exchange? You check that. If you have that, good you're done.
Speaker 4:If you don't have that, because you are doing a bartering system or your your income doesn't meet that threshold, but you can still justify that you adhere to accepted practices within that industry then you just need to describe that in the paragraph below of okay, this is how we are still meeting the standards of agriculture and agricultural industry, but we don't have that $2,000 benchmark. You know, just to your point about chickens, like game hens, chicken fighting. You know cocks are not permitted, right, that's not considered. But if you're doing egg production or you're producing hens for meat, those would qualify under the program.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm going to probably bring up a question that's sort of maybe already answered but we talked about I think a question came up at one point about homestead, right? So if that, like you're saying, 2,000 annual gross income, but this animal they are producing ag, they are in production but it's to sustain their homestead, how does that work into this?
Speaker 4:That's a good question how does that work into this? That's a good question, yeah, so it's really all about whether or not you meet the accepted practices of that agricultural industry. And again, I know that it's. It's maybe frustrating for folks that it's not like black and white about what qualifies and what doesn't. Again, we have to build in some flexibility for our own folks. But basically that's kind of the dividing line is what you're doing, whether it's pasturing for meat production or you're raising hens. Are you meeting the standards of the industry and what is accepted practice versus, you know, just having a backyard garden?
Speaker 4:Now, one of the things that maybe I should mention here is that we did create a program for people that do have a backyard garden or do have, you know, some fruit trees on their property, because we did want to incentivize folks using any access food to, you know, moving that food into the food system, and so we did create another program, that is the Community Food Sustainability Program.
Speaker 4:That says if you're gardening, if you have excess food and you donate it or you sell it, up to a minimum of $1,000 per year. So if you're giving a bunch of ULU to the food basket or the ULU cooperative, you can actually get a tax benefit for that area of your property. It is one-third the market value of that sorry, 30% of the market value of that area that is used to produce food. So that is one of the ways that we're incentivizing it. But I would say that if we're talking about legitimate farmers and ranchers, they want to be in one of the dedicated programs. That is a much better tax benefit for them, so that but the community food sustainability is for people that can't meet that threshold.
Speaker 2:Right, right, right. So maybe you have like six trees in the backyard or whatever that have bananas or like you said, and you donate them, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yep. So we did want to create an opportunity there and it's interesting because that one you really got to look at the market values in your area and see which is going to be the because in some areas with higher market values you are probably not going to see as much benefit as you will in areas with lower market values. So that's something to consider as a landowner what value get themselves to the minimum tax through that community food sustainability program and may not be able to get that through the dedicated ag program. So I would always recommend, if you don't know for sure what is best suited for you, to talk to the real property tax department. They are the best people to give specific advice about your property and what the best opportunities might be.
Speaker 3:That was going to be my next question is you know what? You know where, where do we go from here and you know who they reach out to? So we want to remind everybody again, I guess, just what the deadlines are for the non-dedicated ag and the different programs.
Speaker 4:Yes, if you receive the notice from Real Property Tax about the sunsetting of the non-dedicated ag program. At the time the notice said 2025, september 2025, we have extended that deadline by a year, so you have September 1st 2026 to select one of the new programs. The applications are available now on the Real Property Tax website, so there's no real benefit in delaying. You might as well just do it. But if you don't need some time to decide which is the right program, you have until September 1st 2026. That's nice. I think there was a lot of concern and misunderstanding that the deadline was September 1st 2024 when it first came out.
Speaker 4:Like we have a month and it's like, oh, no you, a year plus a year. Yeah, we added that that time response to that concern. Oh, that's nice.
Speaker 3:So that's, that's good. It's good to be able to have that and just you know who to contact if they've got questions, um, and how to go through all these processes. I know some folks may not even be able to access things online, so can they go into the offices as well to get the forms that?
Speaker 4:they need. They can come into the real property tax offices to get forms. Everything is available, including frequently asked questions, the types of dedications and what those values are, even some guidelines about what qualifies are all available on the Real Property Tax website. On the menu tab you go under forms and you'll see the link to those dedicated programs there. So I did also want to highlight we are in the process of talking with the Hamakua Harvest folks up there in Honoka'a. They want to put on a series of educational. I was going to ask that next.
Speaker 2:Well, and I was actually thinking more of her, because there are some really large producers on Big Island and they have tax professionals the ones I've talked to, and so I was actually even thinking a lot of times the tax professionals don't necessarily know all the tax changes, don't necessarily know all the tax changes until things come out, because we've had issues here with changes for tax credits, for schooling, right. So I yes, that was my, that was going to be my next question, heather yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is kind of the first conversation we've been having that with, about that with a non-profit, but there's some others um here in in the county. We kind of want to distribute them.
Speaker 2:I'm just gonna also throw out. Songy pike is in in hilo. She's got my old job. She's the ag finance agent. So, okay, she has a degree in like ag, econ and finance, so I would throw her out potentially as someone to help with that. Just not that she needs more work, but I'm going to anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, and there's. I'm hopeful that maybe we can work with the Cattlemen's Association as another nonprofit entity to provide some funds to do seminars or support for local ranchers to comply with the program. Although I would say you don't need a degree to fill out these forms. I mean, it's pretty straightforward. It's kind of like a decision tree. You either check the box yes or no, and if the answer is no, then you got to give a little more information. But it's relatively straightforward to fill out.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, that's also a plus Cause. Again, that's what I was like. That's like really like I was like boy. I hope there's some education on how to fill these forms out or where to go for additional information. And then, like I said, I was just thinking like a tax professional because I know again there's there's quite a few larger producers on the island and I'm sure that's a question they'll be having.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, yeah, I think. I think folks are going to need less support filling out the farm plan. Then they will kind of maybe just deciding what is the best program for them in terms of the long-term tax implications. I will say that one of the really so.
Speaker 4:In conjunction with these changes to the dedication programs, which affect the valuation of the land, we did make another really important tax adjustment with respect to agricultural land, which is if you live on your property that your farm is located on, you will still be able to get the homeowner's tax class benefits in addition to the farm valuation benefits. So in Hawaii County, the homeowner's tax class it has two components. It has a rate of 5.95 as of this year, so this is 2024 people watching this in the future. That's what the tax rates were. It was 5.95 per thousand dollars of value. In addition to that, per $1,000 of value.
Speaker 4:In addition to that, you get this 3% cap, which is every year. The value cannot go up more than 3%, regardless of what happens in the market, and so previously folks either had to decide between being in one of the ag-dedicated programs or the non-dedicated programs or the homeowner tax class, and what that meant was for a lot of our farmers that were in the dedicated program or the non-dedicated program. When COVID happened and the market went through the roof and all these folks were coming in and buying land here, they were not protected on their homes. They were protected on the value of their land because of the ag programs. But the value on their home just went up because it was tied to market rate. It didn't have that 3% cap. Unfortunately, we can't go back in time and bring those values back down, but what we've done is going forward. If you live on your farm, that cap will apply, even though you're also getting the benefits of the ag assessment on the land.
Speaker 2:Now's only for for again, if they're also if they also have the ag tied to it correct though.
Speaker 4:Right. So I mean, if you don't have the ag tied to it, you, your land, is included in that assessment at the at the regular rate.
Speaker 4:You don't have that benefit, and so that's going to be based on you know what, what it was valued at the regular rate. You don't have that benefit, and so that's going to be based on you know what, what it was valued at at the time you bought it and and you know the length of time that you've held it. So with the ag dedicated programs, there's a fixed value that is associated depending on what type of agricultural activity you're using per acre, whereas in the other, in the homeowners class, your property is assessed at a certain value, but it's restricted then by the 3%.
Speaker 3:So I have another question. So if you are leasing land, who should be completing these forms? Should it be the leasee or the owner of the property? Okay, right.
Speaker 4:So the application for the tax benefit to the property should be completed by the property owner. The farm plan that is going to be included in that application again, only if you don't have some of the other documentation can be either completed by the leasee or the owner. Can be either completed by the leasee or the owner. So let's say, for example, you've got a leasee that works with five different owners. That leasee can do the farm plan, indicate all five TMKs and what activity is happening, and so forth and so on. Now each of those individual owners would apply for their property to get the tax benefit and they could each include that farm plan.
Speaker 2:So there would be one farm plan, five tax applications from the individual owners and it's the owners that get the tax benefit quick question if the leasee is farming or ranching or whatever engaged in agriculture, does a copy of the written lease need to be on file somewhere, because there's a lot of verbal handshake deals that happen. I really try to encourage people to get written leases anymore just because, yeah, you know, but um there does have to be an on paper agreement.
Speaker 4:Okay, um, it doesn't have to be recorded. So that was one of the changes. Okay, yeah, it doesn't have to be a recorded lease agreement, but there does have to be some sort of executed agreement between the leasee and the landholder I mean, that's what most written agreements again here particularly are is just yeah, something on paper.
Speaker 2:The only time well, in the state of nebr, the only time that's, you have to have it recorded as if it's multi-year. So, and I don't remember what the Hawaii ones are. I'm sorry, I forgot.
Speaker 4:So well, and that is an important consideration is that the lease does have to line up with the term of the dedication, right? So if you have, if you're doing a three the three-year dedication, your lease has to cover that time, and you know it can be. Certainly there is language in the code that you know. One of the things that we have a lot of Baltimore farmers are like what if I die, and you know if you die or become disabled, if I die and you know if you die or become disabled, the you're going to be able to get out of the program without any penalties. Oh, that's nice. There is language written in there. Natural disasters too, if there's there's some natural disaster that makes it impossible to continue, right.
Speaker 2:If something happens. Okay, I'm going to ask another nosy question, because I do. I work a lot with farmers and ranchers to do estate and transition planning. So if somebody does die, but okay, so let's say I'm trying. Okay, let's say my grandfather owns, I don't know, a ranch in Hawaii and he dies and I wanted to, I'm supposed to take it over. It's written in the will, that's the way it's done, can we? Is there a continuation clause in this, or do I need to go refill paperwork out if something happens?
Speaker 4:I'm just scenarios, sorry yeah, yeah, you know, um, that is maybe above my pay grade. Sorry, yeah, no, I would. I would say that I I mean at a bare minimum, you can just reapply okay with your name. But you know, if you, if you do something like hold it in a family trust or something like that, I think that there was a requirement to, to refile I think it really probably depends on the status, um that under which you're holding it. Um, again, kind of outside my pre-grade.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, no, no, it's okay.
Speaker 3:Sometimes you got to just say you don't know, and that's one of them. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. Oh well, thank you. Is there anything else you want to add or share about the?
Speaker 4:program.
Speaker 4:You know, I I think you know one of the things that, as I mentioned, when obviously protecting against fraud, waste and abuse is a piece of this, and a lot of that is just having documentation upfront to show us what you're doing, having those lease agreements, as you said.
Speaker 4:The other thing here is really to just ensure that our quality agricultural properties are being productive and contributing to the food system, and one of the things that I will say has resulted in the changes in the ag code is we have had more people going oh hey, I want to lease my land to somebody that will actually use it, and you know that is the goal, and so I'm excited to see more of that.
Speaker 4:I'm hoping that we can provide, either through the county or another nonprofit organization, is a curated list of OK, these are farmers that know what they're doing, they're looking for land, and over here are landowners that want to be able to still take advantage of these tax benefits but are either too old to farm it or don't know what they're doing and being able to those folks so that we actually I'm gonna have a recommendation for you then, because we have a program called land link and after this, remind me, and I will get you in contact with the gal who's in charge of it so you can talk to her and see how it's going, because it's been pretty successful.
Speaker 2:knock on wood here, and I was like just remind me after we're done with this. Sorry to interrupt you Go for it.
Speaker 4:No, that would be fabulous. I think that's kind of the next stage in all of this is people are saying, okay, I want to make sure that I can keep these benefits. I need to get my land in something that is productive, legitimate agriculture and we know there are people looking for land to lease. So we just did.
Speaker 2:And it's also about finding that right fit for the person. So we've had ones that, specifically, are looking for organic and then some that are looking for no-till and, again, very you know, they want to make sure their their land's going to be taken care of the way they want it to be taken care of yeah, yeah, absolutely, I get it yeah, that makes sense that that's the logical next step.
Speaker 3:It's a great way for us to continue to keep those agricultural lands in ag In ag.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I'll just mention a couple other initiatives as they're kind of relevant to this objective, and one of them is you know, here in the county of Hawaii we have most of our land in state land use agriculture. We have most of our land in state land use agriculture. That includes some of the big subdivisions, the HPPs and the orchid lands and even some of the plantation camps in Hamakua in my district. One of the things that we're trying to figure out a mechanism for is to convert those smaller contiguous lots from state land use ag to rural, and the reason for doing that is that any regulations or protections that we put in place around the use of agricultural land right now, they have to also compensate for the sort of non-conforming use of being essentially a rural residential subdivision. It doesn't mean if you convert to rural, if we convert to state land use rural, you can still use these tax programs. You can still. If you're farming on that one acre parcel or the two acre parcel, you can still enroll in these tax benefit programs. So it's not going to have any impact on your taxes. But what it does is it allows us to protect and incentivize agricultural activities on legitimate ag land without having to compensate.
Speaker 4:The other thing that we're looking at is how to deal with transient accommodation, rentals, overnight accommodations on agricultural land, and I bring that up too, because right now, the county of Hawaii cannot regulate overnight accommodations under the ag tourism policy at the state level. However, yeah, yeah, Maui can. It's limited to counties with three islands, which is one of the weirder things that the state has done the weirder things that the state has done. But the other argument I would make there is that if we had the ability to regulate overnight accommodations through the ag tourism policy, we could put some conditions on that that would ensure that there was legitimate agricultural activity while still allowing for transient accommodations.
Speaker 4:And I know you know from the assessments that have been done here that for many of our farmers and ranchers, having a side business that's related to the tourism industry is like the only way you make it right. But what we don't want to have happen and what we are seeing right now is folks, of course, taking up ag land to do transient accommodation without any farming. So if we actually were able to regulate that under ag tourism, that would be a better situation than what we've got now. So those are two other kind of initiatives that we're looking at. It requires the state to enable us to do it, so it's kind of a challenge. But as those pieces of legislation come through, I hope that folks listening and your members will consider supporting those endeavors, because I think it's going to be able to continue to help us ensure that ag land is being used appropriately and is not being speculated upon by outside investors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah. Like I said, that's a nationwide and, like you said, international issue with a lot of people, but in Hawaii I think it's much more easy for it to happen sometimes.
Speaker 4:It's like on steroids.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, and thank you for having me, and I hope that anybody listening really did find this helpful, and my door is always open too, so feel free to give me a call. My office here 961-8828. My email heatherkimble at hawaiicountygov. I'm always happy to talk people through. Although I cannot give you specific tax advice on your personal, I'm happy to give you general information.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I always tell people I'm not an accountant. I can teach you how to keep your records and things, but I'm not an accountant. Yeah, tax law is not my area of expertise in any shape or form. Thank you so much for joining us today, and we hope our listeners found this informative and that it'll be useful to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, make sure to follow us on our social media pages the Livestock Palau Livestock Extension Group, if you haven't already, and be sure to visit the UHC TAR Extension website and our YouTube channel listed in the show notes Yep yep, like Mele said.
Speaker 2:for additional information about this topic, see those show notes of the podcast and the description box of our YouTube page. Thanks for listening to the Livestock Voila Owl Before we go. Show some love for your favorite podcast by leaving us a review, anywhere you listen to this and then stay tuned for next month's episode.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks again to our sponsors the livestock extension group of the university of poa e manoa college of tropical agriculture and human resilience, the center for ag profitability of the university of nebraska, lincoln, and the western sustainable agriculture research and education program. Mahalo for listening, a hui hou.