S5 Ep 8: Lambing & Kidding with Randy Saner

We walk through practical steps to get goats and sheep ready for breeding, then follow the timeline all the way through labor, newborn care, and early health problems. We also lay out simple biosecurity habits that protect your herd from parasites, disease, and preventable losses.
• pre-breeding vaccines to consider including CDT plus abortion risk vaccines based on your area 
• flushing and body condition targets to improve breeding success and increase multiples 
• late gestation nutrition challenges and why energy and protein density matter 
• facility prep for lambing and kidding including cleaning, disinfection, bedding, and pen setup 
• pasture planning including a 60 to 65 day rest to reduce parasite pressure 
• what to keep in a kidding kit including gloves, lube, iodine, records, tube feeding supplies, and disinfectant 
• labor signs to watch for including contractions and the water bag plus when to check and intervene 
• colostrum timing and amounts plus safe storage and warming practices 
• buck and ram selection tips including condition score, multiples, testicle health, and breeding ratios 
• biosecurity basics including quarantine, dewormer family rotation, limiting traffic, visitor logs, and boot disinfection 
• why a veterinary client patient relationship makes emergencies and prescriptions easier in rural areas 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Aloha. Today's episode is sponsored by the Livestock Extension Group of the University of Hawaii, Manoa College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, the Center for Ag Profitability out of the University of Nebraska.

SPEAKER_04 0:28

Aloha, welcome to the Livestock Fall Amo, a podcast aimed to provide educational supports, information, guidance, and outreach to our livestock stakeholders in Hawaii and the U.S. We are your host, Meli O'Shiro and Janet.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Randy Seiner.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

And Randy Tayner. Today we are talking with Randy Sanner about breeding and biosecurity in small ruminant animals, specifically about some different ways you can monitor and manage your goats and sheep.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Yeah, thank you, Randy, for joining us again and coming to Talk Start with us. I think it's great to be able to have you come on and give us some insights. And I know you've been on before, but can you give us uh just a little bit quick uh recap about your background and um a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_02 1:12

Yeah, so so I'm a livestock educator for the University of Nebraska. Um I've previously served at the University of Missouri Extension and also Colorado State for a while. Um, but um I work in small ruminants. I'm kind of the educator that does small ruminants. However, we are fine, we are I'm training some other educators to do some work in that area. And um I also work with beef cattle production. That's probably my main work. Um we have a large beef, you know, Nebraska's beef production, so we both feed lots of cowcath. So and I'm also the program leader for the livestock program. I do uh my my original degree was in swine nutrition. So um I'm I work more out of my more in beef nutrition and small ruminants than I do in swine, but I do have a background there. I've done a little bit of poultry backyard poultry work. Um, Shannon and I did a program on that just because of all the disease issues with um uh the wild population of the bird bringing it into our poultry operations.

SPEAKER_04 2:17

Yeah, well, just a little bit, a little bit of everything. And someone asked us that as a livestock agent, what do you do? I'm like, well, we do all the species. We don't get to choose.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

I always say depends on the day. Yeah, pretty pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

Yeah, well, and today we're gonna be talking a bit more about sort of labbing and kidding and things that you can do to kind of help and whatnot.

Pre-Breeding Vaccines And Flushing

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Um, I guess we can just start off by talking a little bit about labbing and kidding and sort of maybe starting the beginning, right? What are you doing to get them ready, right? To even be bred, right? So some pre-breeding things, and maybe we'll start the conversation there.

SPEAKER_02 2:53

Well, of course, you know, but before you breed the dose, you sure need to get a C D T vaccination in them. Probably uh you could do a Vibrio because of abortions. Um, and um chlamydia would be another one. And chlamydia is funny, we see outbreaks, and then we don't see any for a while. And I had an outbreak here in my area a few years ago, and it's spread by birds. So it once you once you start it, it seems like it's it's a a lot of people have trouble because they have a lot of calls on it. So sometimes it's better just to do that vaccination um and and save yourself rather than worry. You may not have one for five years, but when you do have one, you're gonna lose a lot of babies to that. So it's one you might want to think about before breeding. Usually we recommend 30 days before breeding season to do that, and of course, your C D T, your Clostritia and tetanus are really important too. And then when we we talk kidding, so I'm gonna go into kidding now, okay. Um, and and the other thing, I guess, before you breed, if you can flush those ewes about four weeks before, start them on a higher energy ratio, or put them in a better pasture with more uh luscious forage, um, you're gonna increase the energy intake. It tends to make more twins and triplets when you do that. So that would be the thing I guess I would think about for breeding. Now we go to kidding, you know, as these as these ewes are and those are getting ready to kid, these babies inside them are big. It makes it hard for that animal to get enough nutrition. So you have to have a better nutritional program for them, higher in energy and protein, because they can't eat as much. I mean, the babies are just pushing on that rumen. Oh, yeah. Um, especially if you've got twins of triplets. And so that's something to think about on a nutritional aspect for the mother. At

Clean Housing And Kidding Setup

SPEAKER_02 4:45

kidding time, it's kind of exciting, right? But you need to prepare for it. So um, if you do prepare, you get better survival rate in kids. And let's talk about facilities first. Um, the first kid being born, uh, this should include a good cleaning of the barn before that or the shelter, you know, disinfect it, spray it, get it cleaned out, get the manure out of there, uh, then re bed it, have it ready. Um build your kidding pins and select the patch for new kids and those being placed after kidding, so you have a place you can put them in afterwards, or sometimes a lot of people will use um sheds, right? If it's if it's real cold. Hawaii's not cold, but in Nebraska get pretty cold. And so they'll have sheds for the kids and dogs after they get so old, they'll put them in a jug first, and then they'll put them out to kind of a nursery, what I would call a nursery. Um, and we we would like it, the the pin or if you put them in the pasture, if you're kidding on pasture, that not have it ungrazed for 60 days. Why would we say that? That has some control of parasites, right? It takes about 60 days. So, so if you can wait 60 to 65 days, it's gonna reduce the amount of parasites. It won't reduce them all, but it'll reduce the amount on that pasture so it's a cleaner pasture you're bringing those babies on. And they're more susceptible to the parasites because they don't have the immunity that the does have. Okay.

The Kidding Kit And Records

SPEAKER_02 6:17

The other thing, um, getting ready, having you a kitten kit. So when you get ready to kit or land those used, um, so that would include identification tags, a feeding tube and syringe. You know, a lot of times we can feed babies, but but you want a small syringe and a small tube that you can get, and you want to make sure that you get it in the uh right place in the stomach. If you don't get it in the stomach, you'll kill the animal because it'll go in the lungs. So you can listen for air coming out of that hose, but you need to be really careful uh when you put that in. But it's very good to have. So if you've got a weak kid or a weak lamb, you can get some feet, some clostrum in it um from maybe another you, or you might even have a supplement. Honestly, clostrum from another you would be better because it's better quality and it's developed for your operation. If you buy it, you don't know exactly what the immunity is in there. A good record sheet to keep track of when the kid's born. Um, I saw one, just a little card on the pins where they put down uh if they had to treat the kid, if they had to give it milk because it was weak, um, when they give it a shot, do they put iodine on the navel? All those kind of things are really important. And you can keep track of it on a little card that'll tell you what's when they and they put down when they kitted kitted or land too. So they knew exactly what was done on that. So if you have other helpers, they know what's been done and what hasn't been done. Right. Latex gloves, yeah. Latex gloves are important too. Uh, any kind of glove to try to wear over your hands because of uh some of the disease are zoonotic, which means they can go to humans, especially females. You need to be really careful with and wear gloves. Uh iodine for the navel, like I said. Uh slinium shot. A lot of us will give selenium shots. It depends on what area of the country you're from, but we call it bose, is one of the one of the ones you can give. And usually give that at kids at at birth. Um, it does seem to help, especially if they're short and selenium. And sometimes we see that in we kids. So some people just give that routinely, some don't. If you've not had if you've not been giving it and you're getting along fine, don't do it. But I would recommend it in most cases, especially if you're new and you don't know. Um towel off those towel to dry those kids if necessary, if it's real cold. But we like the mommy to take care of it first. Um, but you know, she's having two babies and you got one there laying getting cold while she's having the other one, then you can kind of dry it off. Umbers up if you need to call a vet. Um, and then if you can get a scale, a little scale, that you can weigh those babies in a bucket or something, just to get birth weights, because sometimes you'll get some bucks that are really big birth weights, and you do not want to use those on young females. Right. Uh disinfectant would be another thing I would have in there. Um, some kind of disinfectant that you can use, just a mild one. Um, kind of clean your clean things up afterwards. Um, make sure if you're pulling a pulling a lamb or kid that you have a good glove on. Um, and um sometimes some uh lube in there would help. If you helps you get in that lamb easier or that you. Um, so uh make sure that baby has got has got gets up in nurses. If it's not nursing, we need to get a tube to especially within a few hours. If you don't see something happening, you probably need to help that baby get started. So just something to watch. If the mom's taking care of it, fine, leave it alone. Don't bother. Um, but uh those are really important.

SPEAKER_04 10:18

That's sometimes harder to do, I think. When you get so exciting and you see these babies come, you just want to go and do something, right? But I think that's a very important point is let them try to get up and get to the moms and let their moms do their thing because sometimes can be a bigger mess for you if you don't.

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Moms moms will do it best if they're doing it. If if they don't or you have a weak kid, then that's different. But um, they just uh dot to the kid better, the imprint better if you leave alone. So

Nutrition From Late Gestation Onward

SPEAKER_02 10:46

and so so you know, right after right after um kidding to that nutrition goes up because that used lactating. So we go like 95 days before pregnancy, about 2.99 megacals of energy, metabolized energy. Uh um great greater than um or less than 95 days, she goes up to about 3.63. Two weeks of lactation, she jumps up to 5.78, almost doubles. Oh wow. So nutrition is gonna be important. She's gonna, if she don't get that nutrition, it's gonna come off her back and she's gonna get thin, which she can lose a little weight, but we don't want her to lose a lot. So we want to try to get that nutrition up there to where she can meet her new requirements. Protein's the same way, it goes from 0.31 pounds to up to 0.38 two weeks of lactation. So uh in the last 95 days, it goes up to 0.2, so you can just see. Um, and they're gonna they're gonna go from about 2.7 pounds. This is a goat, about 2.7 pounds of feed a day, dry matter a day, up to 4.93. So they're see their intake doubles, but why? Because that baby's gone, it's not pushed on the rumen anymore. Um, and then calcium and phosphorus also are increasing because think about what's in milk. Those are all things you need to think about. Um so tags, we're gonna tag them right if we can. Um, you know, if you need to assist them, you don't want to wait too long, but you want to give them time to process. And then if they've got one kid and you're not seeing anything happen and she's still really straining hard, check and see if that other kid might be coming backwards or turn around. And sometimes you'll get two of them coming at once, and you got to go in and push one back and and get and get and so those are all things you gotta watch of with multiple bursts. Sometimes they come upside down and backwards, and so all those things are things that to watch for.

Labor Signs And When To Intervene

SPEAKER_04 12:55

So, what are what are some of the I guess classic labor signs that folks can watch for and that if they don't see is when they should start to intervene?

SPEAKER_02 13:04

Well, they should start, you know, they'll they'll they'll see the dough kind of fidgeting around, right? And then you'll start seeing some contractions. And you should see uh like a water bag come out. Um and and then once you see that, you know, within in a couple hours within an hour or two, she should be having a baby, sometimes less than that. If it goes that long, you need to get in there and see what's going on. Does that make sense? Yeah, and so so it's it's good to leave a little to watch for, but watch for that water bag, watch for her contractions. If she just continually strains and she gets nothing out, then you might want to check her just to see.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yeah, this is where it'd be good to have that kit, like you were talking about earlier, because then you've got you know all the gloves and the lube and stuff that may be necessary for that time.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

So yeah, and then you know, once the baby's born, if you can get those nables sprayed and cleaned off. Um the trouble is that navel ill, we can get infection from it, and that's what makes it nice about that. And make sure you have some milk, right? So that you can um the big thing is if you can get some cloths from frozen from other use, if they'll let you milk them out a little bit, um that up in like an ice cube tray and warm water. You don't want to put it in a microwave too much because it can change the proteins, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Structures, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

Right. So you want to warm it up and and ice cube trays really work nice because you can just have a little bit for that baby and make sure that you get some costuming. Um, the other thing is, you know, if you can warm those doughs before kidding, they're not gonna spread those parasites to their babies as as easily. And so a couple couple weeks before, um say two to three weeks before, um, because um they also become more susceptible to them once they get getting ready to have that baby because they there's a lot of stress on that animal. And so if we can get them kind of cleaned out beforehand, that would be that would be good. So the other thing we'll watch, watch watch for kids that show signs of illness right away. You know, that first week or two, we need to really kind of make sure sometimes a dough will get mastitis and um you'll see a heart udder. Um, and that baby's not getting milk.

unknown 15:34

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

You'll start seeing it cry more, it'll get thinner, you need to get on it right away, otherwise it'll die pretty fast. So things to watch. You can also give um, I think it's it's a week, um, you can do the C D, or you can do it to get them started on that tetanus and overeating, because it's really important to get that in them. If you've already done it before lambing and kidding, that's gonna put it in the claustrum. But if you didn't do it before lambing and kidding, then you need to do um get one. Um the other thing I didn't I mentioned here, the the three-stage delay we talked about it, start of labor, birth process, and cleaning out. That whole process should take no more than 12 to 14 hours. If it if it does, and once the water sack is presented, again, I need to deliver that kid in an hour. If it's not delivered an hour, you need to get in there and do something about it. So anything I've missed?

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Yeah, no, I was just gonna say that third stage is another important run, right? Because if she doesn't pass everything at that point, too, that's something else you should probably take a look at because you don't want to retain any of that stuff either. So yeah, very good. So I think that's a good, I mean, great overview of sort of what to look for for pre-breeding then during labor and you know, just having an idea of what you should be expected to see so you know when to step in and when to intervene. And

Buck And Ram Breeding Readiness

SPEAKER_04 17:03

we talked about the mom, right? The female side of this, but there's a little bit of pre-breeding stuff we should be thinking about in the male side too, right? That can help um on that. And you you talked about record keeping and keeping track of like weights of the babies and things like that, which go back to your males, right? And choosing what what bucks or rams you're gonna be using. Do you want to touch just a little bit about sort of what you should look at for um if you're thinking about the the bucks and the ram side of pre-breeding and what they should be looking for?

SPEAKER_02 17:32

So again, uh, you know, they're gonna be stressed when they're breeding, they're gonna be real busy, so they're gonna lose weight. So they need to be a three or three, three condition score out of a five, if you think of five score, um which is kind of midway, at least a three, a four doesn't hurt, but you don't want them real fat because then they um it affects the sperm and everything else in that in that buck. So you don't want them too fat because they and then they're gonna get lazy and they get hot easy. So um I would the other thing I would look for when I'm was with buying a RAM or a buck, you know, how was what was their gain like? Make sure you buy one that had multiple bursts, right? Because those are really important in profitability and in small ruminants. You want one that's got comes from a from a twin or or triplet, not a single. Singles look beautiful, they're wonderful looking, but we don't want them to have we don't want them to have single babies because it's not very comfortable in our in that industry to have singles. If you're showing goats, it might be different, but um most in most cases for commercial guys, we're gonna want that. Um those are make sure the testicles, you know, they can get infection in them. And so you want to look at them, check them out. A lot of times you can feel for them if they feel really soft at the bottom. They might have some some um infection. You might want to give them an antibiotics to kind of clean them out. So make sure you check for that. Check for any bumps or bruises on there just to make sure that they're fertile. Uh, you can do you can test them with a vet and and do that, and that's a good practice for a lot of people just to check to make sure they're good. Most people don't use that, but it is something to think about. If you're they say if you're putting uh bucks together, you're better off to put a buck in, take him out, put another one in later, because they fight a lot. I know some people get by with two in in a pen, but they say they'll you'll get a little better breeding if you just do one at a time because they have plenty of libido. That's the thing about a goat, and and even even rams are pretty much that way, too.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

But um what's the ideal ratio for a buck to or a uh you or whatnot?

SPEAKER_02 19:53

That is a good question. That is, and I think it's one to you know, a young buck, one to twenty.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Uh an older buck, you can go one to probably forty. Wow. So it it it's um um, you know, we recommend like one to twenty-five probably, but but in goats we get by with we can get by with up to 50 for a mature buck. For mature, okay. But a young buck, no, you need to do 20. And I like in the cattle industry, always figure they can breed enough animals for their age. Well, right. Um, but but a year is only 12, right? So they can probably be 20, but I wouldn't go more than that. So goats are a little different than cattle, but um 20 to 25 is probably maximum for a young goat.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Um and say pretty much the same way with sheep. They're pretty pretty similar. People don't realize that they're really uh there's a lot of similarities there between them.

SPEAKER_04 21:01

So sorry, I have one more question. What um you said body condition scores for the males. What is an ideal body condition score for a you or doe that's going into breeding?

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Probably a two and a half or three.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

I've seen some and they always tell me, Oh, they didn't, you know, they didn't catch this here, but then you look at the ewes and they're just a little bit tanky.

SPEAKER_02 21:22

And the other thing you know is good. Yeah. So the other thing is, you know, flesh them and getting getting some energy into them. Um, so either and you didn't need to do that 20, 21 days before, four weeks before somewhere in there. So um so if they are looking a little thin, get that feet out there and ramp them up on energy. Because it it's gonna help them. Um but hopefully we're at two and a half to three. You're right. If they get less than that, they're hard to get bred.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Um and we don't want a five, right? A big old fat dough.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

Because she won't breed either. Because then that affects actually for affects fertility hormones. The other thing about that is if you feed a lot of clover, and in some some kind of parts we have a lot of clover, clover can produce enough estrogen to affect that cycle. So if you got too much clover in a pasture, you might think about putting them in a different pasture while they're breeding. Um they they say about taking them out about two weeks before, because that and I I've seen that very seldom, but I had a person in Nebraska tell me they think that was their problem and should have trouble breeding some some ewes. And they think it might have been that clover. If it's a real heavy clover, I mean if it's mainly clover. Yeah, if it's if it's clover and grass, then that's a different story, right? Because it dilutes it out.

Colostrum Timing And Early Immunity

SPEAKER_02 22:49

We talked a little bit about the kids, what they needed. So a kid needs about two ounces of clostrum within six hours of birth. Okay. And then four to six ounces within 24 hours of birth. So that kind of in a lamb would be real similar. The time, like I said, time isn't critical because we need those immunoglobulins to um go into the animal's system. And what happens is those those crypts close in the in the intestine so they can't get into the body of the animal. And so after that, after that, after 24 hours, they're probably all closed. But those first six hours is when you really need to get it in because that's when they're the most open. And those antibodies convey that intestine and also go inside the animal's body to help with. And that's really their only source because they're they're not they're not making any, they're not like us right now, making antibodies, right? They're still takes them a while to get there. Okay. What else, girls?

SPEAKER_04 23:54

Well, yeah, you um, I mean, you touched on some of the management stuff as far as housing and whatnot, but is there, I mean, some everybody has different breeding seasons depending on their operations, but you want to talk just a little bit about sort of how that breeding season sort of in play into management protocol?

Season Planning And Pasture Management

SPEAKER_02 24:13

Yeah, so so um so if you're if you're kidding out on grass, um and it's May and Nebraska's somewhat warm, we can still get snows or landing. You could lose lands if you get a snowstorm in, right? And some people do that if they don't have a so if you got a place to put them in, if it does get that way, it's nice to have a shed. Goats don't like rain at all, they'll go into like trees and stuff, um, because they're desert animals versus sheep are a little less that way, but they're still desert type animals. So um if you're kidding in the winter, in January in Nebraska, you got to have a heat light, you got a place for the land to get away from the U. And you got to make sure that that heat lamp is protected because I've heard of a lot of places getting burned down. Yeah, you grab the they start chewing on the electric cord or they knock a knock a heat lamp down and it starts things on fire. So that's really something to be careful with. But but a jug, putting them in a jug with a with a heat lamp is gonna save a lot of babies inside a barn. Um so if you're calm in December, lambing or kidding in December, you gotta do that. And and goats are even more susceptible to cold weather than lambs. Lambs have a little more fat on them than goats do. So inside, okay. If you're calving, if you're landing, keep saying calving, if you're kidding and landing in May, um, you can probably do it outside most of the time. You just might know you might get a few storms. Um again, though, what a lot of people will do if they're kidding like that outside or lambing, they'll move, they'll leave the mamas and babies and they'll move the gestating used to a new spot. Why do they do that? It keeps lambs from getting mixed up. So the mom keeps her babies together. And so if you're doing that on pasture, the key is to move those ones that haven't kitted or lambed on to a new spot so they're not trying to take somebody else's baby. Um, and that that is um kind of important. Um, summertime, if you got a little shade, it would help there, you know, if you're you're you're kidding. Uh lambs, sheep and goats tend to breed in the win in the fall, like in August, but goats will breed out of season. There's a few sheep that will. And so um you can actually help that with using some estrogen or some progesterones um and with the U by synchronizing them. But you could think that but some of them will breed without synchronization too. But if they're kidding, then again, if it's really hot, a nice shade tree that they can get under is really nice that nice to have for them. Now, goats will they'll clean up the trees around pretty high because they'll go up and eat the branches tall. So um sometimes sometimes they'll kill a little tree. So, you know, if you want some trees killed, the goats are really good for that.

SPEAKER_03 27:24

Cedar control. So I was just thinking because red cedar are a real problem out here. I was like, but yeah, so like invasive trees. Like I know some I forget which like some of the eucalyptus, like in on Big Island. Well, those trees are some of those trees are too big now, but they you they could eat the little ones.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Christmas bird is another one they use them a lot, the goats down here for yes, and they'll trim them up high, even the big ones, they'll trim them up high as high as they can reach.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

And so we had we had a couple kids, and our my kids had some goats for for 4-H, and we had your kids had some kids, yeah, in our backyard, and we had a fenced-in area, and I had a tree, and boy, they trimmed that tree up nice. It was an older tree. Um, even even they like the leaves. So yeah, but but that's something that they'll they'll help you with. And if you think about sheep and goats, goats will eat more woody type plants, and sheep will eat more forbs, which is your bigger leaf type plants. So, so they both eat a little bit different. They'll still eat grass, but the major majority of theirs is going to be more woody for goats, more forbs like clover and uh any kind of big weeds or um uh broadleaf type plants. So, so there's an advantage to having both of them, right? Because one one does one, then does the other. And if you got cattle, you can add them with a cow, a goat with a cow, and not change your stocking rate because they eat enough different stuff. Same way with the you, you can do the same thing with the you. Yeah. We have we have like I've got a we had a herd of like 1200 and 1500 head of ewes, and they had 1500 head of cows. They had the cows to start with, they brought the ewes in and they never changed their stocking rate. They they ate enough different stuff, they had enough for both.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

That's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

So you can sell more meat off the same place. True. Anything else I missed, girls. You want to

Biosecurity Quarantine And Parasite Control

SPEAKER_02 29:36

talk a little bit about biosecurity? We have time.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say that. So you've done a little bit of work in the area of biosecurity recently with small ruminants. So tell us a little bit about that. Because I I don't know, I foresee that biosecurity as being it it's become it's become a much bigger topic in the last decade, but I think it's just gonna keep getting bigger for personal opinion, not endorsed by any university.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Right. Well, well, and biosecurity is important. Um, for instance, if you buy a worm-infested resistant you and you bring it into your herd, right, you put it right in with yours, guess where all the guess where she's putting out infected worms on on the ground, your your animals are gonna get resistant too. So so keeping her up for 25 days or 30 days, worming her, letting that manure in one little location away from the rest of your animals is a big deal. Right. The other thing is you know, buying um animals with foot rot. You know, if you can put them in a pen for a while, check them, because you can really bring foot rot into your your lambing by bringing by buying it in. Does that make sense? Yeah, and so those are some things. So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna, when we buy an animal, we're gonna, or even a buck, we're gonna put it in a pen for let's say three weeks at least. Um, like to do it for a month if we can. We're gonna worm it, and we might worm it with three different families of wormer. Why would we do that? That's gonna kill almost all the worms. She'll still have a few that'll be resistant, but it'll kill like 99%. Then we put her out with ours and kind of clean her out so that she's not out giving ours new worms. She'll pick up what we have, right? But that's okay because we have a system we're doing. The other thing parasites is you've got to, you can't use the same family of dewormers every year. You're gonna have to switch. Right. And so um, those are so so some things to think about when biosecurity, um, you know, train your employees, keep a line of separation between where the animals are and where people drive in. If you can avoid having people drive down the road right through your through your go pin, that's you don't want that. You want to keep the goats and sheep away from the the cars because they could bring in diseases too on their tires. Okay, and so uh have a buffer around your area, and then you know, if if you've got a problem, you know, let's get those those animals away from everything else. So you need a pin to put animals in that are sick away from everything else, because we want to we want to stop the disease, right? It might go through score, but once we get those kind of in a in a separate spot, then the rest of them hopefully we can keep from getting sick. Um also wild birds, rodents, insects, anything like that that you can keep at bay or lower, you're gonna be much happier with with them because they can spread diseases. Some of the flies, um a lot of your ticks could carry diseases through the blood. So um, and then your equipment and vehicles, um, if you're going to market, clean it out when you get done, spray it out, give it disinfect. Most of us don't do that, right? I cleaned mine out once this year. I got it all cleaned out, the trailer. So I did, I did get it at least one time. But yeah, disinfecting it. Um, even the tires, if you think there's a problem. Dispose your mortalities, have a place where you're gonna put them. Um, you can compost them, that works fine, but keep it away from everything else. You know, change the change the litter in the barns or the manure, you know, clean them out before kidding and land. I mean, that's kind of a biosecurity as well as just a good health practice. Um, make sure their water supply is clean and away from um where it can get contaminated. Um, and sometimes you got to clean them out because the animal, I don't know, some animals just are good at making them dirty. I don't know what it is about them. Yeah, um your feed, if you put it in a place where it's away from any kind of chemicals, as well as um where a lot of people are traveling, and put some rodent bait in there to keep the rodents out of it, because they will they will they'll spread diseases that way.

SPEAKER_03 34:15

Yeah, and rodents are I think just I don't care where you live, they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 34:20

So yeah, keep keep good records, you know, of things and then have a farm visitor policy.

Visitors Vehicles And Disinfecting Protocols

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yes, people don't think about this, just don't let people put a sign out, say, you know, controlled area or does this no trespassers is also a good one to have trespassing just for legal purposes.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

That could be a whole discussion we could do better at some point. But no, it's true, just because it it limits your legal liability if someone trespasses illegally and like poaching is a real problem again on on Big Island, I know, as well as here. So it's yeah, it's a discussion we've had lately.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

So and I I would say have that sign up because we don't, you know, the one of the signs I had in my biosecurity thing is it says stop. Yeah, and it says do not enter. Um, and so keeping people out of there, um, and then if you know, if you are bringing people in, get some disinfectant, put in water. Chlorine, chlorine works, Clorox works fine as a disinfectant, and um you can make put it in a bucket, make sure that they clean them their boots off. If you can buy some plastic boots to go over them, but um, if they've got just plastic boots, you can just scrub that on them. Um, we just we did all of our tours now. We usually pretty much either use disinfected or or boots. Yeah. Foreign minister, foreign visitors, they need to be at least five days away from no animal contact. And again, be very careful because they could bring disease onto your place from another country. So again, you use your cleaning effect, but but make sure they've been away. Most people will say five days, you know, and some swine units you don't go in, period.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

You know, I was gonna say some swine units and poultry units now, you know, you don't go in. You don't go in, period. Because I was like, yeah, I'm just um we know some people that own some poultry barns and swine units that I can think of off the top of my head that they're like would love to have people come visit and tour for educational purposes, but just for the biosecurity risk, they're like, no, can't do it.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Yeah, and on the on the bleach, it's a mixture of a half a cup of bleach to a gallon of water.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Right. And it's so simple and really like, I mean, I know all prices have gone up this last year, but it's a pretty cheap option to to like have people either spray their shoes or dunk their feet in it real quick before they come on. So and also keeping a list of who's come and who's gone. Because if something does happen, you need to be able to track that down. Did that come from X, Y, or Z or wherever?

SPEAKER_02 37:01

So if you do have a problem, you know, wash your cars with with water disinfectant, soap, clean them up.

SPEAKER_03 37:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Um, that's that's another thing. So um if you're gonna be gone, do not tell people on Facebook you're gonna be gone.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

So that's another if you got livestock, it's a good way to lose them.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Yeah, no, it's true, it's true.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

Yeah, I don't even when we just travel family. I don't ever post practically.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

I don't post pictures till I'm back.

SPEAKER_04 37:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

If then, if then is always I don't even do that half the time.

SPEAKER_02 37:42

So yeah, and then a good a good goat or sheep safety and quality assurance program. Um those are all we know, we've got one with you know, a secure sheep or mole plan is important, and that's you know for foot and mouth disease, but it works for all diseases, and it makes you think about where your line should be, where you should not be crossing. Um, and so those are um those are kind of kind of important for you. And then a veterinary client patient relationship. No, you're oh yeah, the local vets know what diseases are around, they're gonna help you more than anything, and they should be a part of your overall operation. Um they're just a good source for you, and yeah, they cost you a little bit, but in the long run, it'll it'll pay dividends if you if you know them.

SPEAKER_04 38:31

Yeah,

Vet Partnership And Injection Basics

SPEAKER_04 38:32

yes, yeah, and there's not very many things you can get over the counter nowadays either. I mean, most of it you need to have that prescription. So getting that relationship with your local vet is very important.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

Yeah, especially if you're rural, like I think rural Nebraska, but rural Hawaii, like it's very limited on access to veterinarian services. I feel like the other week there was a a webinar talking about, you know, access to veterinary services in rural parts of the US. And I thought it was very important and pointed, you know, to to make those and create those relationships. Yeah. So that if you have an emergency.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Yeah. We need those people, we need those people in our area. We gotta support them. Um but like an 18 or 20 gauge needle for goats is playing big. 18 if you got a real thick, 20 if you got a 20 is gonna be smaller than 18 in diameter, yeah. And then in the neck or the the elbow would be the other place under the skin. But um, for for muscle, we still want to put it in the nick, just a longer, yeah. Usually a more of a three-quarter inch versus a half inch or three-eighths. So um, and I think I'm slightly is there anything that I'm missing, guys, you can think of.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Well, you kind of pulled it all together at the end here, so you did good. I didn't even have to ask that question. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

I that does, I mean, I think that's it, there's a lot of things that go on when you think about lambing, killing, and breeding and whatnot, and how biosecurity plays into every part, I think, of that operation, you know, and not just during the breeding season. I mean, biosecurity should be something that's going on and being thought about all the time. And I think you're right, Shannon. I think it's not just across one livestock sector, everyone in the different um species has really been talking more about biosecurity and really putting it kind of more at the forefront because I think we we have to, you know, and I know you know, we're far, and a lot of times I think here in Hawaii we think nothing gets here, but things get here, you know. Oh yeah, they do. We're not immune to those kinds of things. You know, it's not about the benefits to win.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

I know we were talking about the screw worm the other day, Melanie, and even Randy. I've had conversations with both of you, and like it's it's not anywhere near you yet, knock on wood, Melanie, but like here it's just south of Texas, which is really not that far away if you think about things. So, and really it's only a matter of time, at least according to the livestock entomologist we have here on staff that I've visited with pretty regularly. Yeah, and at some point we'll get them on here.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

They are changing how they put the sterile flies out. They're they're gonna actually put start putting some in Texas, so yeah, yes. So then I talked about needles a little bit. This needle, this one recommends 18 18 gauge for real thin solutions, okay. It's sub Q would be like a half to three-quarter intermuscular, it would be an inch. Now, okay, the one I read also said 20 for goats, real small goats. But the thing about the diameter, when you get down to 20, it's pretty small. And if you got a very thick liquid, it's hard to get it out. So that's why they're saying this here.

SPEAKER_04 42:01

So um very good, very good. So wow.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Oh, and then three inches separation between injection sites. So if you got to get 10ccs, you need to go at least three inches apart. Okay. That's all part of my biosecurity talk.

SPEAKER_04 42:19

So thank you. I feel like biosecurity is a huge thing. You can have a whole discussion about it. There is so much, you know. I mean, that that you need to think about. But some of those base things, right? Just keeping track of who's coming in and out, where your animals are, knowing where your animals are, right? And all that stuff is it's just you know, basic records really, really help make a difference. And you know, the signage is another very important part, you know, just to kind of make and a good herd health program.

SPEAKER_02 42:49

Yeah, within solve a lot of your issues. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

Well, like you said earlier when you were talking about like even pre-pregnancy, making sure they get some of those vaccines if you can, you know, really helps. So because then they already have those antibodies in the milk with the cholesterol. Yeah, when the the kid is born, so or the land.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

There's not a lot of transfer in mammals from the the uterus or the placenta to the baby in antibodies, most of it's done in the milk.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

So it's really that's really important.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Okay. Anything else we're missing? I think I went over my time.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

No, you're okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:35

Very good information.

Programs Coming Up And What’s Next

SPEAKER_03 43:36

I think we're do you have anything coming up that you want to talk about or plug in the next any webinars or anything coming up?

SPEAKER_02 43:46

So, so we are going, Nebraska's working on March 7th. We're gonna have one on reproduction, and what we're working on is we're seeing, I don't know about Malay and your area, but our second and third. Heifers getting them rebred, we're having issues, and it's be and it used to be just second calf heifers, but we're seeing it even in thirds now. And so we're gonna have a series of programs on that by webinar. So you could um probably do the wrong time of day. But um are you gonna record?

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yes, okay, so they'll be available.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

And we you know, it could be a lot of factors for a when they're breeding, all those kind of things. So it's a it's a major deal. Uh we've got a little bit of grand money for it. So great, awesome. And then women and egg, right? Oh, yeah. That's our new thing. That's we got a big one coming up in a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

So yeah, so yep. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Randy. We really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

You're welcome. Good to see you guys. Stay awake. So, what's your temperature there in Hawaii? I just curiosity.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Oh, right now it's was what did I believe it was 68, I think, when I went to drop the kids off. So that's yeah, it's been it's been good. When I was in Reno, it wasn't too cold. I thought it was gonna be very cold up there, but it didn't snow, which I was a little disappointed, to be honest, you know, because they didn't get to see snow when I was there just on the mountains. But yeah, but yeah, we're not too bad.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

It's in the 40s here.

SPEAKER_04 45:35

So I was just gonna say, you guys gotta be in the 40s over there right now. So yeah, we're warm, I think, for this time of year.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

For this time of year, we're pretty we're pretty nice. It's pretty nice, yeah. Yeah, but yeah. Well, I hope that I enjoyed the time. I went to Denver when they had their ASI at Denver. That's when I went because it's close. Um, but um, the ASI has a nice, they have a nice conference. I enjoy it when I go.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

It's just yeah, it was good. I think we got to meet quite a few people, and I we just so happy we must have looked lost because it was the first time we're there. There were three of us. One producer came with us, and then myself and our other extension agent. We got checked in, we sat down at a table, and we must have looked so lost because Erica came up and she talked, she came and introduced herself to us, and she and she was like, So I hear you guys are the Hawaii group. And we're like, Yeah, we don't know where we're going, where are we supposed to be? Like, so but we ended up get being able to go into the extension specialist meeting that they held because I guess it's a closed kind of closed door meeting. So she had told us about that, and um, it was great because I think that started us off with all the meetings and um got to meet a lot of folks in there. So it was, I think it was it was a it was a good conference. We were a little a little like not sure where we're going when we first got there. So but it was good after. So I think yeah, yeah, it was good. But yes, thank you for joining us today. And thank you. Yeah. Well, go ahead, Shannon. You can do your thing.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

No, I was gonna

Follow Share Review And Closing

SPEAKER_03 47:01

say we we hope our listeners found this informative and that it'll be useful for them.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

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SPEAKER_03 47:15

Yep. And for additional information about this topic, like Meli said, see the show notes of the podcast, the description box of our YouTube page. Thanks for listening to the Livestock Val. Before we go, show some love for your favorite podcast. Hopefully that's us by leaving us a review wherever you listen to this, and then stay tuned for next month's episode.

SPEAKER_04 47:32

Yes, thanks again to our sponsor, the Livestock Extension Group of the University of Hawaii Manoa College of Tropical Agriculture and Human Resilience, the Center for Ag Profitability of the University of Nebraska. And thank you for listening. We hope to hear how we ho. Aw.