13: How to market yourself as a career changer

It's no secret (or is it?) that career changers need to market themselves differently than regular job seekers. Certified resume writer and professional career coach Timothy Lo, founder of Your Next Jump, uses a real-life client example to walk us through how to put together a resume that'll stand out, how to best use LinkedIn, and how to talk about your experience in one industry or profession when you're interviewing for a job in a different one.


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Podcast info:
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Transcript

Lixandra: Hi everyone, I'm Lixandra Urresta, and this is Career Switch Podcast. This show is here to encourage you to take action with whatever career change you've been considering or are working on. In some episodes, I talk to people who've made their own career switch, whether by choice or circumstance. They share the good, the bad, and the truth about their journey, including what worked for them and what didn't. In other episodes, I speak with experts who offer their best career advice on issues that can come up during the process of making a career change. After all, it takes guts to switch things up, and it's not easy. However, it is possible. I hope you hear something in this episode, an idea, a suggestion, a piece of wisdom that'll spur you into action with your own career switch, whether it's taking that first bold step or trying something new. Welcome. I'm glad you're here. 

It's no secret, or is it, that career changers need to market themselves differently than regular job seekers. When you're trying to make a career switch, you can't apply for a job in a new industry or profession using the same resume you've used for other jobs. You also need to branch out on LinkedIn. And you need to answer interview questions for a new field using your experience in your previous one. That's a lot to tackle. 

Here to help with all these three areas is certified resume writer and professional career coach, Timothy Lo. Timothy is the founder of Your Next Jump, a career coaching company that focuses on personal branding. Your Next Jump has helped clients land jobs at companies such as E-Trade, Deloitte, and Microsoft, among others. In this episode, Timothy explains how to use your resume, LinkedIn, and the interview process to market yourself as a career changer and stand out. Using a real-life example of one of his clients who made her career switch, he walks us through how to put together a resume that'll get you noticed, how to best use LinkedIn, and how to talk about your experience in one industry or profession when you're interviewing for a job in a different one. 

Hi, Timothy. Thanks for joining us today. Let's dive in. Why does a career changer need to market themselves differently than a regular job seeker?

Timothy: Both job seekers who are staying in their industry and also those that are transitioning out need to market themselves. Bottom line is as you market yourself, whether it's on the resume or the LinkedIn, is you want to make the job of whoever is looking at your resume or your LinkedIn and determining whether or not they want to bring you in for an interview. You want to make their job easy. The easier you make their job, the better it is, especially for those that are transitioning into a different field. And even more so, especially if you don't have industry background or you don't have specific experience in that area, you have to think about what are the things that you do have that they want, right? What are you bringing to the table that they want to hear? Not necessarily what you want to say, but what do they want to hear? And so a great way to do that is not to emphasize your experience by jumping right into your experience on your resume, which I see a lot of people do. but emphasize the competencies, emphasize the skills and the knowledge in certain things that they are looking for. And so we have a lot of ways to do that.

Lixandra: Let's start with the resume. How can you make your resume stand out when you're making a career switch?

Timothy: You start big picture on the resume, right? So we have to ask the question, what is the purpose of the resume? What is the goal of the resume? Because people always go into the details. Should I have one page or two page? Should I have blue color font, black color font, Times New Roman, Arial? Let's start with the big picture of what a resume is. So a resume's purpose is to make the case that you're the best candidate, right? That's what a good resume does. A great resume though, so even better than a good resume, is that it makes the job of whoever's reading the resume easy to know that you're a great candidate. So how do we do that? We have two goals whenever we write a resume. One is a lot of resumes, and this is really natural. If you're listening right now on this podcast, pull out your resume. Resumes read like job descriptions. People put down, these are my day-to-day activities, these are my roles and responsibilities, how many people I manage, size of the budget, these are the projects that I lead or the projects that I work on. And of course, there's a place for that on the resume. But what we found what most employers are looking for is really answering that so what question, okay, great, you know, you've done these great things, you worked in this capacity. So what, you know, what were the results for the outcomes, the things that you did, what do they lead to? Look, I don't want to know that you're an IT project manager, I want to know that you're a damn good IT project manager, because everyone who's applying it has some type of background in this, I want to know that you're really good at what you do. And so the underlying message of that first goal that we have is when someone picks up your resume, they need to know very quickly that no matter where you've worked, no matter what you've done, you're just somebody who figures out a way to do a good job. And therefore, if we hire you, we can feel confident that you can do the same thing for us. 

Okay, so that's goal number one. Number two is this look every job you're applying to right now 234 500 people that are applying. And so what I want to make sure that we're doing is I want to make the job easy. So when I pick up the resume, I want to know in a matter of a few seconds, the answer to these two questions, what is it that you're trying to do? And what do you bring to the table as it pertains to that specific position that you're targeting? And the easier you make it for me to answer those two questions, the more effective your resume is going to be. You want to spoon feed me, not what you want to say, but what do I want to hear as the HR person or the hiring manager. And the easier you make it for me to answer those two questions, the better chance your resume is going to move on to the next round. And when you move it to the next round, you're no longer competing as 300 candidates, you're competing against five, you've gone from a less than 1% chance to a 20% chance of getting that job or getting that interview. And that's the goal of the resume, right? It's not a historical archive of what you've done. What it really is, is it's like a TV commercial, you got 30 seconds to sell that bottle of Coke, you got 30 seconds to show, hey, you know what, Alexandra, she's the right person for this job. Okay. So those are the two goals that we have.

Lixandra: Can you give us an example to illustrate these points?

Timothy: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So I have a resume pulled up here. I know this is a podcast. You guys can see this. So I'll try to explain it or describe it as best as I can. We had a client who came to us and let's just say her name is Jill Smith. She was a high school teacher and she taught AP English language and she taught AP art history. And so the resume that we created for her, she used to transition into a business consulting role at Deloitte. And so how do we make it so that when someone picks up our resume, they don't say, oh, this is a high school teacher. How did this resume get in this pile? One of the simple things that we do is we open every resume with what we call a headline. Why do you choose to read any article that's in a newspaper or in a magazine? You choose to read it because of the headline. The headline is what draws you in. Same thing. So put a headline and you can adjust this headline for every job that you apply to at the top of your resume. And you need to adjust this to kind of match what they're looking for. So if we open up this resume and said high school teacher, you know, English and art history expertise, this resume would not have gone anywhere. OK, so how do we open up this resume? And again, this is for a communications and strategy role at Deloitte. OK, so how do we do it? We open up with a headline instructional leader hyphen communications expertise. Is that headline 100% honest to who she is? You better believe it. Is she an instructional leader? Yeah. Is she a communications expert? You better believe it. Teachers are some of the best communicators in the world, right? They have to take subject matter and explain it to an audience member that has no idea what it is. And so she's the phenomenal communicator. And is it a communications and strategy role that she's applying for at Deloitte? You better believe it, right? Are they going to throw this resume away? No.

Lixandra: So now, what goes under the headline?

Timothy: Right below that, we put this professional summary section. It says versatile communicator with experience, tailoring, messaging, and instruction to different audiences, including students, faculty, leadership, staff, parents, and resource providers. Expert relationship builder with track record of collaborating with different organizational wide and community stakeholders. Dynamic team leader with experience training employees, providing effective feedback and coaching and setting team standards to ensure quality performance. All of those three bullets right there, they describe what she does, but they also fit in with what Deloitte might be looking for.

Lixandra: So to reiterate, since we can't see the resume while listening to this episode, the top two sections of the resume are one, the headline and two, the professional summary with the three bullets. Now, the third section is the core competency section, right? What goes there?

Timothy: Right below these three professional summary bullets that I just talked about, we put the skills that they're looking for. Communication strategy, writing and editing, content development, employee training, project management, internal external communications. Those five things, that's what they're looking for at Deloitte on that job posting. We put them there. Look, she has those skills. They might be expressed in a different way as a teacher, but those are certainly skills that she has. And so we list it right there.

Lixandra: Got it. And what about the fourth section, relevant experience?

Timothy: Now we're about halfway down the first page of the resume. Now we get to the relevant experience section. And this is where we say humanities teacher, Thomas Jefferson high school. And then we describe what she does. And then we save those bullets, those precious bullets for not just what she does as a teacher that even a really bad teacher could write. What those bullets really are are going to explain how she's a damn good teacher. So the first half of the first page of the resume, the most premium part of the resume, we're giving them the skills, the talents, the competencies that they want to hear, we're feeding it to them right there. So they're not going to immediately dismiss that resume.

Lixandra: Now that we've covered these four sections of the resume, let me go back to the second section, the professional summary with the three bullets. Are the bullets based on the job post?

Timothy: Those are based on looking at what the job posting is asking for and how your background and your experience fits into what they're looking for. And so we want to do that as best as possible.

Lixandra: I noticed you earlier called bullets precious. Why are they precious? How should we best use bullets on a resume?

Timothy: Bullets are meant to highlight things that are important. But if everything on your resume is a bullet, then nothing becomes important. Right? You devalue that bullet, because if everything is the same, then nothing is stands out.

Lixandra: Can you give us examples using the teacher resume?

Timothy: These bullets are meant to be things that are specific to this candidate and make this candidate stand out to show that this candidate isn't just a humanities teacher at Thomas Jefferson High School. This teacher is a damn good teacher. OK, so what do we save those bullets for? Here's examples. Achieved improvements in student writing levels at or above adequate level for over 93% of students year after year. Evaluated as highly effective in content knowledge instructional design year after year. Chosen to represent the humanities department in this principles advisory committee. See, all of those things are specific that only Jill Smith can claim that she does. And not only that, it also shows that she's not leaving teaching because she's bad at it. In fact, she's a phenomenal teacher, and she's going to take those skills to wherever she's going to move into. And so then that bolsters the case that no matter where Jill has worked, no matter what she's done, she's just somebody who figures out a way to do a good job. Therefore, even if you hire her for this management consulting role that she's never done, you could be pretty confident that she's going to figure out a way to do a good job.

Lixandra: Great. So let's now move on to LinkedIn. You say that LinkedIn can help with the ground war part of a career transition. Tell us about that.

Timothy: You know, when we coach our clients, we break it down. We call it the air war and the ground war. The air war is you going on career builders or procure LinkedIn, indeed finding a job and submitting your resume and then waiting to hear back. And so you're hoping the ATS system will pick up your resume. But even more important than that is the human eye, right? At the end of the day, there's still going to be someone looking at your resume. And that's a passive approach. You're waiting for them to get back to you versus you going to them. And we call that the ground war. And what I mean by that is this, let me just drill down to like a very specific example. Let's say your background is in AI, in artificial intelligence, okay? And let's say you wanted to work at a company like Booz Allen, okay, large management consulting firm. And let's say you went to Carnegie Mellon, my alma mater. And you go online and you search Booz Allen, you search Carnegie Mellon, and you put in, you know, AI. Maybe it'll pull up 100 people out of this, you know, very large company with a large network. And you start reaching out to them and you're not asking them for a job. Let's be very careful. What you're saying to them is, look, hey, I've heard some really great things. I'm a Carnegie Mellon alum. I've heard some really great things about Booz Allen and the cultural work that you're doing there. I've read that you guys are doing this certain thing in machine learning. really would just love to learn a little bit more about what you guys are doing. Would you be up for grabbing virtual coffee, right? You're asking for a conversation, maybe one out of 10, two out of 10 people are actually going to respond, you know, off of LinkedIn. But when they do, and you have that conversation, what happens is you've essentially invited yourself into an informal interview. Now you're having a conversation with them, make sure you read ahead of time, you really actually read whatever is publicly available about what Booz Allen is doing in AI or machine learning. you have some nice conversation with them, right? And you show them that you know what you're talking about. And then you say, Hey, thanks so much, john, for having this conversation. Then two weeks later, you say, Hey, john, thanks so much for chatting with me back in August, I came across this job posting at Booz Allen, I thought it might be a really good fit for me, just wanted to see what you thought, right? And john's like, Oh, hey, Alexandra was really nice chatting with you. Actually, Susan oversees that department, let me pass your resume over to her. And Susan is now the hiring manager. She is getting your resume from someone internally at Booz Allen. She's going to review that resume. Instead of you hoping to get through that 300 person pile of resumes and the HR person picking you up and the ATS system passing you through and eventually getting to Susan, your resume is getting to Susan already. If you fit what she's looking for, even if you are less qualified than some of those people in that 300 stack of resumes, she'll bring you in for an interview, right? And so almost all of our 8,000 clients that we've worked with who do that ground war portion of it, they find jobs way faster than those who are just submitting their resume and kind of waiting to hear back. And so if you are able to land a conversation with somebody on LinkedIn, that is a huge step forward in your job search in terms of transitioning.

Lixandra: What if there's a job posting you want to apply for at a certain company and you purposely set out to connect with people who work there? When is a good time to bring up the open position?

Timothy: tactically speaking, not in the initial request for having a conversation. Once you have that conversation, and you're even in the midst of the conversation, you might say, hey, it was really good chatting with you. You know, thanks so much for taking this time with me. It was really cool learning about this. Before I reach out to you, I did see this job posting, and you might be able to send it to him during that conversation and say, you know, I thought it might be a good fit for this just because you understand the company culture, you understand what they're looking for. I wanted to see, you know, after having a conversation with me, do you think this might be a good fit for me? Now you've built a little bit of a rapport, even in that first conversation, you know, at that point, you can ask.

Lixandra: Okay, so you've landed an interview. How should you talk about your experience in one industry or profession when you're interviewing for a job in a different one?

Timothy: By the time they bring you in for an interview, they feel like there is something about you that would make you a good fit. Why would they bring you in for an interview if they don't feel that way? Okay, so come to the table with a little bit of confidence in that area. We break down interviews into three things. We call it the three C's, right? We call it character, competency, and chemistry. Okay. For the competency, they're just verifying at this point, if they're bringing you for an interview, they already feel like you can do the job. They might just ask you a few questions to verify their assumptions that you are competent. What they really want to see in an interview is they want to see the character. Okay. And this is why people ask you those questions. Tell me about a time that you had conflict with a coworker. What is your greatest weakness? Why are you making this transition? Those are the character and those are the chemistry aspects of the interview. The competency, they might just say, hey, tell me about a time that you use this skill. Or I see that you talk a lot about communications. Tell me about how you use communications and how that might apply to this job. At this point, you can say things like, yeah, you know, actually, as a teacher, one of the biggest skills that we have is to be a good communicator. We have to communicate complex topics. And this is complex for your audience. If I'm teaching third graders algebra, that is a complex subject for third graders. And so I need to be able to figure out a way to get that. And I see that as a really clear transition in consulting. We are coming into our clients. We're helping them solve a problem. We need to be able to communicate that effectively. And I have honed my skills as a communicator to understand the principles of communication. How do I provide clarity and how do I take complex ideas and simplify them into what they want to hear in a way that is easily digestible? Now, to the chemistry part of it and to the character part of it, how do you answer the question, what is your greatest weakness? The way to answer that question is not to do this humble brag, and people do this all the time. Actually, one of the things is I really get into my work and I start spending a lot of time in the office, I start neglecting other things. And that's just kind of a bullshit answer because it's like, what does that mean? A real good answer is the answer that humanizes it. Everyone who's listening on this podcast, we all have things that we're not good at. But what a good candidate does is number one, recognizes that they're not good at it. Number two, seeks advice and help, implements the things and puts it into effect, and has the wisdom to at least try to get better in those things. That's a good answer, I think, Because again, it humanizes who you are. And it also shows character on your part. And it also shows that you're someone who is seeking chemistry, you're trying to make it happen, you're trying to be a team player.

Lixandra: One of the most common questions at an interview is, tell us about yourself. How can a career changer answer such a broad question?

Timothy: Okay, when you say tell me about yourself, don't tell me that you're a teacher, especially if you're making a transition into something different. Tell me those skills that you have that I want to hear that are pertinent to the job that I'm applying for.

Lixandra: So can you use those skills from the three bullets under the professional summary section of your resume to answer this question?

Timothy: Yeah, yeah. And this is the one question on the interview that you have almost 100% chance of being able to prepare for this question. And so, yes, you don't want to read these bullets, but you can conversationalize those three bullets. And this is where you want to take those three bullets and think about how you want to answer in 30 seconds that question, tell me about yourself.

Lixandra: Another common question usually toward the end of an interview is, do you have any questions for me or for us? How can you take advantage of this question?

Timothy: In this teacher experience, you could even say, look, thank you so much for this opportunity to interview. I want to address the elephant in the room. I'm a high school teacher and just be upfront with it. I'm a high school teacher, but I'm making this transition. I've been learning a lot about what you guys are doing. I've been working towards different types of certifications. I've really worked in my skills and communications. What are some things that you would like to see from a candidate in this role? Or what are some things that you would like to see in a potential candidate in helping you guys fulfill this role and make this relationship successful? And that's a great question, because now you're automatically getting insights as to what they want.

Lixandra: As we wrap up, tell us about your career coaching company, Your Next Jump, and what services you offer.

Timothy: We're based out of the Washington, D.C. area, but we serve multiple markets, including New York, Atlanta, Chicago, Boston, and then the Texas cities as well, too. And then we started marketing in some of the West Coast cities. Even though we call ourselves a career coaching company, what we really are is we're a professional branding company. Because for almost every job that you have in every company that you apply to, you have one chance to make that first impression. And so we want to make sure when you make that first impression, you are putting your best foot forward to maximize your chances. In addition to resume writing and LinkedIn, we also provide coaching and consultation on how to conduct the job search, not necessarily what types of jobs you should be applying to, Now that you've identified what you want to do, how do you clearly articulate the transition that you're trying to make, whether it's transitioning into a new industry, into a new field, or just transitioning to a new company within your same field?

Lixandra: I know you have a free monthly webinar where our listeners can get a DIY kit that includes a copy of the resume that we've been using as an example in this episode, along with some sample resumes and a resume template.

Timothy: We run a webinar once a month. And if you just go to our website, your next jump.com forward slash get hired all one word. Um, you can register for the next monthly webinar. We're having one coming up in September and then we'll have one again in October and we'll have one again in November and December. There's no sales pitch. It's about an hour long. We've done this for over 3,000 people since the beginning of the pandemic. So we talked about resume strategy, salary negotiations, interview preparations, job search strategy, and also just little things like how to say thank you after an interview, things like that, that I think you'll find really helpful if you are in the market for Job Secure. Completely free. We'd love to see you guys there.

Lixandra: Special thanks to Timothy Lo for being our guest today. You can register for Your Next Jump's free monthly webinar called Practical Strategies to Standing Out in the Crowded Job Market at yournextjump.com slash gethired. If you're listening to this episode in September or October 2021, the next webinars are scheduled for September 9th and October 3rd. You can find links to the resources mentioned in this episode and more helpful information in the show notes and on our website, careerswitchpod.com. While you're there, join our mailing list and follow us on Instagram and Twitter at careerswitchpod. So what's your career switch? Are you excited to take action after listening to this episode? Tell us at careerswitchpod.com. We'd love to know, along with any feedback you have about the show. We're a new podcast, so please rate, review, and share with your friends and colleagues. It'll help get the show out there. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.