Bing Oliver introduces us to his 5 D model, a management model that exposes where you're at in the "leading" process. What "D" is your strength? What "D" is your biggest growth piece? Listen for more deep dives into how to grow your bottom line without compromising your leadership integrity.
Bing Oliver introduces us to his 5 D model, a management model that exposes where you're at in the "leading" process. What "D" is your strength? What "D" is your biggest growth piece? Listen for more deep dives into how to grow your bottom line without compromising your leadership integrity.
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Speaker 2:were you on that one?
Speaker 1:Welcome to this edition of a server's journey with rocky destefano. The foundation of the show is that everyone is leading something or someone. So are you going to be that someone? Yes. I hope so, Larry, and thanks for having us again and thanks for listening to us. And again, as we always say, we're all on a journey of leadership and we believe it's how you serve and we believe everybody's a leader, whether they're leading just themselves or their family or a corporation that's got thousands of employees and it's fantastic because we're kind of getting into taking care of the leader himself. Yeah. So we're definitely, I'm trying to dive into that and um, you know, I think maybe a better way to say it too would be not only taking care, but also preparing yourself to be the leader that you need to be. Yeah. And you can, I think as you pointed out, that you could be a leader if you're a unwrapping a fry bags, right? Yeah. Or whatever your, your system is. But you can do that. You can be a leader. Yeah, absolutely. Starts with self leadership and you get to self lead yourself all the time. Um, okay. Uh, what I want to talk about the website. Okay. Because, uh, Eddie in, uh, Virginia, yeah. It's Ed ed, but Mr Ed, I'm sorry. History. Mr Ed. Yes. He's got acs creative. He, it's not him. It's got, he's got this big organization behind him. Yes. But they don't play games with your money and they can put together maybe a brochure or a, they can create a new logo for you. Anything direct mail campaigns. Yeah. So check them out. ACS, creative on the Internet. If you're looking for a company to help build the backside of your podcast too, which is what they've helped us do tremendously. Uh, just check them out.
Speaker 2:Yup. At
Speaker 1:peak moments in leadership, you have a new look where, well, we have a new, so I'm going to take it a little bit into a, an epic moment or maybe stupidist comment by a leader. Yes. How about that? That would be good. Yeah. So we're gonna, uh, our, you know, our first one, so this is historic, is on, uh, American, uh, I'm sorry, is on the native American Indians. And here's the quote. I don't feel we did them wrong and taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who need a new land and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves. Larry, any idea who said that? No. Yeah, so that was the great actor, John Wayne who said it. So I, you know, one of those, he should have known better. He should have known better. Could you repeat that again, John? I just saw a John Wayne movie, yet it's, I don't feel we did wrong and taking great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves. So we did in my favorite little feller. Yeah, there we go. So that is it. As stupid as I meant by a leader. That was our epic moments in leadership. Now we're going to have some in the future by some presidents and some ambassadors to foreign countries. There's some pretty amazing things that people have said. All right. So today we've got bing again. Yeah, we did Oliver from of peak coaching. Yes. Right. And insulting peak consulting. I'm sorry. And what, what are we going to be talking about? So he, uh, so several months ago, probably about, uh, almost eight or nine, he, I started a journey where I knew I was gonna expand my organization. Um, I was going to go from one store to two stores and probably from a hundred people to 200 plus and, uh, really knew and was worried about, um, kind of messing up a wall, trying to be, or while trying to expand this corporation. And so I, uh, solicited being to kind of come alongside me and coach me through this process. And one of the things that he coached me through was a model he calls the five d and it helped me greatly in mind
Speaker 3:Melbourne.
Speaker 1:All right. So being, I'm going to let you get started and talk a little bit about the five d model, what it is and how you came up with it, et Cetera, and how you helped him transition into to restaurant. Larry's very interested in that part. Cause I want my second studio, you know.
Speaker 4:Hello. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I, I've had people yell, let's start off with, let's begin with the end and then work our way to it is, you know, I've had people say to me, Oh, you know, how car, how hard could it be to say double the size of your business, you know, we've got one. So all we need to do is just do the same thing twice or double it. And, um, I don't know. I don't know if you'd, uh, how you'd report this statement, Rocky, but I've had quiet people say it wasn't so much. One plus one equals two is more like one times one equals 10. You know, something weird man. Like, wait a minute. This is not, not two of the same. It's, it's one big unit that's totally different. And so a lot of times, you know, I began a conversation with somebody based on the fact that really everything that has made them successful, up to the point that they're at, they're doing those things and they're not getting the same results in the beginning to go, what's going on here? Excuse me. And, um, and, and asking why, why is it that everything I've done that's made me successful seems to be not working, um, or, or even working against me?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know. The crazy thing was you, um, warned me cause I kept, well, the doubling of my business and you kept saying, you're not doubling you, you know, expect 10 times. And I remember thinking that that was probably a little bit neurotic maybe, but I, I can agree with you now having gone through it, that it truly is, um, there's, you know, it's funny how doubling the people doesn't just double the issues, but quadruples et cetera.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And, and let's, let's hit close to home on that rocky. Um, you know, you and I been talking recently about how, um, and, and we're going to develop this in a minute, but Rocky's primarily in the role called definer, which means he's, he's very involved in culture and, um, you know, what are the rules of the game, internal branding, et cetera. And one of the things that you deal with is that an organization, the size of yours you have at any given time, quite a few success and tragedy stories going on all at the same time.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's been one of the hardest to get used to.
Speaker 4:And, um, you know, your, you are right reasonably expected to be involved in and, and, and have care and concern for those people under your care. And that becomes really complicated because, you know, you have your own family, you have your friends, and then you have your organization and you have, you may have one person who's getting married and someone else who's having a, you know, a parent is going on cancer treatment. And, um, so this is where things begin to multiple,
Speaker 1:well, you know, and uh, I think too, what makes it difficult is by, by their very nature, somebody who is interested or wants to be a servant leader is somebody who has a heart who cares about people, cares about what they're going through. And so that, you know, ups to stake. Because as you said, every day I walk into the different stores and I sometimes feel like I have to be the solution to every problem and it can be really overwhelming. And that came into focus being an, I did a process called braving, which is a, um, tool that that being has in his toolbox that really helps you understand how, how your leadership, how the people around you perceive. And one of the, um, written in quotes was he uses all his patients up at the store and has none left for us. And that came from my wife, which was both shocking and accurate. So now what do I do with that information? And so, as you know, as you said, Ben, you really have to think about these things as your business grows because you don't want to have that comment and said, you want to be a great leader at Your Business and at home or, and I think that's true for so many. Yes. You put
Speaker 4:so much into your work. Yes, for sure. Okay. So last thing I want to say and then I'm going to lay out the five ds is, you know, um, I am a coach and I, I believe I became a coach because I believe in coaching and I have a coach. And what my coach does for me is helped me uncover those things like that that you're making or your spouse is thinking and is right in front of you and you're not seeing it and then help you deal with it and go, okay, you know, let's not get, uh, you know, wrapped around the axle and this was looked at as a fact and what are we gonna do about this and how do we help you, you know, show up at home, uh, with more patients? Absolutely. So, so let's talk about five d and Let me just kind of lay out what this is. Basically, this came about from me observing my father who, um, was the chick-fil-a operator, um, Franchisee, uh, Ken Oliver. He passed away a couple of years ago. Um, and he had a long career with chick-fil-a and through real respected. And then also I was a business consultant with chick-fil-a. So I worked with Chick-Filet franchisees and then I became a chief foot franchisee myself. So it's my personal observation plus observation of people that, you know, I know and love and close to me. And what I observed is that, um, as a business starts and then grows, that um, uh, the, the, the complexity begins to expand. And let me just lay it out and then maybe I'll make some sense. So the first thing that happens is, is you have an idea. So there's a book called the e myth and it talks about a pie maker. And this was person who makes pies, right? And they're really, really good at making pies and their friends say, hey, you should go into business making pies. Well, the issue there with this person in this fictional story is that they're really good at making pies. So they're a, this is the first d, they're a doer. So the thing that they do in their business is make pies and they're good at it, right? Um, and so they open a business and they just said, well, we're going to s you don't want to start selling the Pi's. Well, and so they may need to hire a few people to help them, um, make the pies and sell the pies and do the accounting, etc. And then things get too big for one person to handle it. So where you once were a dewar, now you become a delegator. And so there are skills that have to be learned and acquired in order to delegate effectively. To me, the phrase that sums it up is inspect what you expect. So you, you make your expectations clear through good communication and training. And then you just go around and make sure people are, they're basically an extension of you. Um, there's not a lot of creativity involved. There's doing stuff that you need to get done. And you're passing it off to to make sure it's right. Okay. Then things get a little bit bigger and you can't literally sort of, you know, make sure everybody's doing things your way because there's too many of them. And so, so then you began to, and then you can begin to almost have like departments, like you've got your accounting department, or in the case of a restaurant, you'd be at your front counter, you've got your kitchen, and they become these little cells. And so people need to be in charge of those areas. In a larger corporation, it's their departments. Um, and so, so then the next function is developing. And so it's less about, you know, hey, I, I need you to do this specific thing like the schedule. Um, I need you to become responsible for, um, cost controls, right? And so now I need to develop you, uh, um, mentally I need to help you develop your skillset and need to help me with emotional intelligence in order to be a leader with this in sub part of your organization. So that's the third D is developer. And most, most people running, you know, medium ish sides organizations are at that level. And this is where a lot of times I see leaders running up into a ceiling of complexity is they're developing people and they don't, they may not be aware of this next d and the fourth D is definer. And the definer is the person who is basically working with all of the developers and saying, hey guys, this is, these are the game rules. So I happen to know for rocky because he and I work together, that the internal, um, brand or, or slogan that they use is making stories better. So as a definer, Rocky's role is to constantly develop that and in the organization, Hey, Huh, how do we make a customer story better? How do we make a vendor's story better? How do we make an employee story better? How do we improve the story of our community? And even perhaps to some degree, the, the, the organization at large, um, maybe making some dent in the world. You know, how do we make a difference, which is the 50 making a difference. So when we, and I like to think about the, the first four ds as being lanes. So we need the doers to be doing their jobs really well. We need the delegators to be effective at delegating. We need the developers, um, to be strong leaders and we need the definer to be, um, you know, keeping, keeping the vision clear and fresh. And in most organizations, people are kind of shifted one lane. So, you know, the, the people aren't showing up for work are doing their jobs. So, you know, the shift leaders doing their work, which means that, you know, the, um, uh, the, the director level person who has to jump in and run a shift, and then the head of the organization is getting pulled into the minutia of developing people and not being able to stay at the top. So we help everybody shift everyone lane. And when we do, we find that people, uh, the things just seem to click and then we're able to do that 50, which is making a difference.
Speaker 1:Hmm. So now, uh, it's maybe normal and you know, let me start by saying you don't know, sometimes when you're moving from one to the next, like there's not like a clear, okay, now I'm a definer. He, you know, it's a little bit, um, cloudy sometimes. And do you feel like sometimes a delegator still has to do is what you're saying?
Speaker 4:Well, it's a matter of fact. Um, we were about, it takes about 15 minutes to take the profile. We'll find out where you are as a leader. And, and w the way we do it is we don't say, hey, you know, are you this, this or this? We asked you to, to determine using some criteria what percentages of your time and energy you're, you're, you're, you're using an each of those. And really everybody, well, the leader of the organization should be doing all four, um, to some degree, right? So we want you mostly defining, but we definitely want you to developing the people closest to you. You're gonna have a few tasks that you delegate perhaps to administrative assistant, et Cetera. And then sometimes you just need to pick up a broom and sweep the dining room. And, and so, uh, we don't think of it as being only this, this or this, but where are you primarily spending your time? And then, you know, we ask where are you and where do you see yourself in six to 12 months? And then we've got a gap and we begin working on it.
Speaker 1:Right. And you know, what was interesting about my organization is we did it for me, but we also did it for the top four leaders in each of my restaurants too because we needed to know where they were at and you know, we needed to set some goals for where they were going to be in five or six months. Like you said, the manager, the people you're working with, do they need to hit all five of these points or are, did you want to find the strengths of which one, which D is their best? I mean, what do you know? I think that, at least for me, I think that there's ds that you naturally are good at and there are some that I've had to work harder to be functional at you. Do you think that's fair? That sounds good to me being, how do you feel about that? Am I destroying your model?
Speaker 4:No, not at all. Not at all. I'm not think you're right. Like I'm a lot of times when we, you know, when you came up through the ranks, um, which a lot of grey organizations, you know, bring people up from internally, um, you know, you tend to, you tend to sort of real quickly drop a few levels. Um, especially I'll tell a personal story, um, when I was a Chick-Filet Franchisee, when things would start getting a little sideways and I get frustrated, the team could always find me in the stock room with my razor knife trim and the top off of boxes. Right? Yeah, I can do this, you know, and, and, and I can see my progress and it's relieving my stress. And actually because that was in my DNA from the very beginning, you know, my dad was a chick filet operators like trim the block stops, you know
Speaker 1:either too. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you can, you know, I, I, yeah, I always say if I am stressed or if I'm being stretched in a way I'm maybe not comfortable with, normally I'm cutting boxes or on dishes. If you seem in either of those places, I'm trying to work through something.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. And you know, that's really cool because if you're, if your brain is turned in while you're doing that, you know, hope that hopefully in that you're actually, essentially, you're still in that define a role, you know?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And you're right, you can do several things at one time and many times. And you know, it depends on your personality type. I tend to be a processor where I'm not going to make a decision very quick unless it's like the matter a, you know, a matter of life and death. So I need time to process and think through it. It just how I'm wired. So it's not like when I'm doing dishes, I'm, I'm shutting off my brain. Totally. It's more like I'm doing a background job that I love to do, kind of brings comfort and allows me to kind of let my mind wander toward an answer, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4:It does. And I do think that that your mental state is more important than your physical state. So if, for example, one, you come into your restaurant, rocky and your few people down and there's bus and et Cetera, and you find one of your directors, um, they're, they're, they're, um, they're on the fries station because they just have to be right. And your first inclination might be, oh no, you know what, what's going on here? And the question is not what they're doing with their hands, but what they're doing with their mind. Because if they're literally just going, hey, I'm just doing fries, then you've got a tremendously overpaid employee working on fries. But if they're sitting there working on fries and, but in their brain, they're going, okay, how do I prevent this tomorrow? Yes. Now, now we've got a problem solver and now they're working at those higher levels.
Speaker 1:Well, and, and not only that too, but like, you know, as we're talking about delegating and defined or developer, all these things. So what I found is with my new restaurant, which is, um, a lower volume than my first restaurant, at first they were having trouble maintaining labor. And so several times when I walked in, I would find some of my top leaders doing, but they're doing, was actually showing pretty great leadership because they knew that at this volume, on this day, in order to be a successful business, I have to be a doer. And of course they were also leading the store. You know, they're able to kind of put themselves in positions where they were doing a task, but they could still see the whole store and lead the process. And in some ways I was proud because it showed good recognition of here's my goal and in order to get there today, I have to do this.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So again, it's what's going on internally with them, right? They're still there. Even though they have the broom in their hand or their bagging, they've selected a task that they can do that will still allow them to delegate, yes. Or develop others. And you can, I mean, you know, you can, um, you can be sweeping the floor and call somebody over and have a conversation with them. It's very strategic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. In fact, there are certain, you know, positions where you kind of learn, okay, I can do this and still, you know, be in charge.
Speaker 4:Right. So Rocky, I'm curious, I've been excited about, um, having this conversation, um, with you particularly because, you know, in our coaching conversations I, we've been talking about kind of helping you make this journey. I don't know that I've actually, we've actually pressed the pause button and go, hey, tell me about it. From your point of view. What was that like going from one store to two and looking at your life and work through that filter of the five ds?
Speaker 1:You know, I, I think what the five D's Did is, um, you know, a lot like the lean process we talked about on the last show, it kind of exposes where you're at in a way that causes you to have to confront it. And so for me, this process, I realized that I was still doing a lot more, you know, than I should, should be. And it wasn't necessarily because I had to, in fact, it wasn't because I had to, it was because I felt comfortable there. And so for me, I had to kind of move through those processes quicker to where I had to really understand this idea of, hey, if you don't define the culture for your stores, somebody will, and it can be a good or it can be a negative. And I didn't want to risk that. So if I didn't, you know, really worked through this process and become committed to maybe even fighting some of my natural tendencies, um, we could end up with a really bad culture and it wouldn't be because anybody meant it to be bad. It was just an outcome because I wasn't really doing the job that only I can do and I have to do
Speaker 4:what are, what are some things in the moment that sort of go through your mind that tempt you and pull you away from where you need to be into something maybe you, you don't need to be spending your time on.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, I think that there's, so for me it's always going to be like, you know, we kind of really espoused this teen concept and you know, there's a saying within a lot of chick-fil-as where, you know, when you, when you have, you know, when you hire a person or when you put a person in leadership, you get their hands and you're looking for their hands, you're looking for the effort and the work they're going to produce. And by the way, you get this free brain too. And so a lot of times we talk about how if you're making a decision on an island, you're probably making the wrong decision. And the more people you can include, um, you know, the better the is going to be. And so I like when I walk in the restaurant and I see four or five liters sitting down working through an issue, it's the way it should work. But then I also tell them, but if I walk in in the stores on fire and you're sitting in the dining room trying to figure out what to do, that's not good leadership. And so what I find is for me, um, some of the things that take me away from what I should do is the way that I see an issue and the importance. So I may put greater importance on an issue that's really not a big deal. But to me, I've created it almost to the level of a fire. So if I walk in and the dining room is dirty, I'm going to immediately feel pulled to get there and clean instead of saying, well, why is somebody not out here cleaning already? If that makes sense. So for me, it's really been, um, understanding what is truly an emergency and what is not. And then forcing myself, um, to let some things go so that they can learn how to do it themselves. And that always made me feel guilty when you walked in and picked up a rug and were other cleaning when I was supposed to be cleaning. Yes. Yeah. Well, and you know, it shouldn't make you feel guilty. You should see it as more of just my, what did I miss? Why, why did I miss it? Yeah. You see so much more than I do. Yeah. Does that make sense? Being,
Speaker 4:it does. Um, I, and this is something I found for myself in my growth and evolution. I'm curious if you, if you've experienced this rocky, is, um, when you get into defining work, it's a lot of work that people don't see,
Speaker 1:right?
Speaker 4:So there's, there's work that's going on in your head. There's work that's going on in your office at home or you may be at, um, you may be speaking at a community event, etc. And because we were brought up as doers and delegators largely, um, we have developed this idea of sort of our value being in visible work. And so then people start, you know, you hear the rumblings like, well, things not really working anymore,
Speaker 1:right? Yeah. Yeah. But you know, you know, I, I think you probably do get it with some people, but what I've noticed is, in fact, we were talking about this the other day and Zach said something in Zach's one of our top leaders that really kind of surprised me. And, um, I was sharing with them that, um, the reason why sometimes I want to get in there and do is because I feel guilty. Like I feel like, okay, I have two restaurants and there are open 32 hours a day and I need to be there 32 hours a day because they need to see my, you know, and there's this internal guilt, which is kind of odd. And uh, I mentioned that to the leadership and Zach said, well, that's funny because I actually feel guilty when I see you doing because I feel like you're being, you're here too much. So sometimes it's like a self-inflicted prison that you put yourself in and they don't really feel that way. But because we've been brought up to be doers, we f we, you know, it's like if I did this task, I can prove my value. Yeah. But if I am planning, how do I prove that I did anything
Speaker 4:right? I'm going to kind of kind of, you're either quieting down your invoice or the voice of others that says, I'm not really working right now. And I mean, I've had some times where, you know, uh, we're having a meeting and we're discussing, we're coming up with, you know, cool plans and stuff like that. And then somebody said, well, time to get back to work. And I'm like, uh, what have we been doing for the last hour and a half? Right. Cause I want to tell, I saw you were real quick personal story. Um, about 10 years ago when I was a, um, a franchise owner with Chick-fil-a, um, I had adopted, you know, this high performance leadership team thing pretty early and I was working with a coach. I was wanting, I was an early adopter on that as well. And I think I might've been one of the first people, um, to get an administrative assistant. Um, but one of the things that I wrestled with, with my administrative assistant was I would, I would, I would say, you know, she had my credit card, she had my calendar, she had, uh, my to do list and, um, and, and I would have, I would have stuff in my hand that I needed to get done that was administrative. And I was really not good at those kinds of tasks. My brain doesn't really work very well that way, on, on, on sequential or research based, a follow up kind of stuff. And, and I, and not only does it not work well, but I don't like it. So, um, Courtney would, uh, say, hey being, what's that in your hand? And I'm like, ah, it's some administrative stuff. And she'd be like, can't give it to me. And I'm like, but I don't, I feel guilty because I don't want to burden you with this thing that I hate.
Speaker 1:Right. It's kind of like I'm cleaning up the house before the maid comes. What's ahead? It's kind of like cleaning up your house before the maids. Yes.
Speaker 4:Yes. I want anybody to see my, I don't want my maid to see though how messy my house is. Right. But so, but there was this really cool moment where one time she literally looked me in the eye and she said, look, being those things that you hate doing, I love doing those. And I had to stop her and go, okay, are you saying that because I'm paying you? And she's like, no, I actually love, you know, making your travel arrangements or you know, or making sure your calendar's lined up and getting into the right place at the right time. And it was just like this huge burden came off of me. And I realize that, you know, if I can build a team of people around me that compliment, I can, I can offload stuff that I'm not good at and don't enjoy and spend my time and the things that I'm good at and enjoy. And it actually is not just good for me, but for the organization, which was really
Speaker 1:the big Aha. But now, I mean, you know, we say that and, and it's easy to think it's easy, but it's not, I mean, it takes, you know, a real process. And again, working through some of the five ds, being able to understand what I really enjoy. And I think one thing that we discovered when we were working through it is, if I don't do every day, I don't enjoy that day. You're not happy. Yeah. And it was weird because, you know, I think there's a, a knowledge within Chick-Filet that would say you should never be on fries. You should never be cleaning a table. But that was counterintuitive to me because when I did that, when I tried to be a good manager or a good operator, I hated that day. So for me it was kind of giving me the freedom to say, hey, you know what, it's okay if I'm doing because I want to. Yes. It's so much different than doing because I have to.
Speaker 4:Yeah. We don't have enough people to, um, uh, get. And one of my other roles was as a business consultant about 15 years ago. And to me, you walk into a restaurant, you've got a franchise owner who has to be on fries every time you come, we got to have a conversation. Right? Yeah. Uh, someone who wants to be because they want to rub shoulders with people, demonstrate that there's no job that you know, is beneath them, et cetera. That's real different and that's wonderful. And I, I highly recommend that. Um, it demonstrates humility. It builds relationships. The other thing though that's really important to note there is it made you happy. Right. And, and to me that, that now takes us over into this top that you guys have been talking a lot about, which is self care for the leader.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Which has become near and dear to my heart. And I think that, um, why it's hitting home so much and why we're doing an entire series on it is because I recognize more than ever that there's a great possibility I'm going to burn out if I don't figure this thing out.
Speaker 4:And when we get into
Speaker 1:this de this a diff definer, right? Like, you know, if, if you're the person who shows up for eight hours and you go home, like what kind of what you do with the other eight hours of your day or that you're awake and your sleep, you know, is Kinda like, it doesn't have that much bearing a whole lot of bearing on work. I mean, it's good if you're going to get shape, et Cetera, when you're at the head of an organization, probably half of your work. And that's just a, I'm just sort of throwing a dart at a board to get a number. A lot of your work is self work, you know, it's getting, it's getting to the gym, it's going to see, um, a, uh, a counselor. It's, um, uh, reading a good book. I mean, like you've got to be pouring into yourself constantly. Yeah. And it sounds almost, and it feels almost selfish, you know, especially for somebody who I think is naturally a servant. You don't naturally want to be, you know, servant leader. Um, and so it's kind of getting over the mindset of, you know, all those 20 problems today that I'm going to try to deal with and help these people. If I'm not at a position of strength, it will, it will wear me down.
Speaker 4:You turn, you turn your cup over and there's nothing in there. You know, it doesn't matter how good your intentions are. You got a very little the off, he has a little drops coming out of your cup. You got to fill it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's a famous, uh, speaker who's passed now and he wrote several books, one of my favorites, Dr. Howard Hendricks, and he was out of the Dallas, Dallas theological seminary. And he, he talked about a professor that he looked up to and he was shocked that this professor was constantly, constantly reading and doing research. And so finally he said, you know, you've been teaching these courses for 30 years. Why do you have to keep learning? I mean, you've got this stuff. And the teacher turned to him and said, I'd rather that my students drink from a raging river than a stagnant pond. And it always stuck with me. And that, that's part of my self care is this constant idea that I have to push and figure out, you know, what's next? So, um, how, how long have you been doing this five d process and, you know, it seems like you're finding success in it for, for a lot of your clients.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, um, peak coaching has been around for two years. I've been a coach, I think, you know, rocky, when I started the company, one of the, I'll never forget, um, I started peak coaching. I think you sent me a message for call me or something and said, you know, you kind of been doing this as long as I've known you, which is how long has it now?
Speaker 1:My Gosh, I'm 90,
Speaker 4:90. No, 88. So that's, wow. 20[inaudible] yeah. 31 years. Yeah. We've known each other and, um, and so, you know, we've all got natural strengths. I think coaching is something that, um, I just really enjoy. I love helping other people be successful at the things they're doing. So, but, um, I had become aware of the three Ds. I believe Mark Conklin with chick-fil-a kind of came up with this, the threes. Um, and that was the first few that do, um, uh, delegate and develop. And decade or so ago we were trying to push all operators, um, at, you know, stores were around two, three, four, 5 million, most of them into this role of being a developer and helping them realize that was new. And then when I started my company peak and I started working with people I've found, yeah, no, most people have kind of figured that out, are doing pretty good at it. So what is the next thing? You know? Yeah. And it occurred to me while I think it's definer, you know, it's co it's, and we haven't even gotten into this, but there's this whole internal brand thing like, like what is the who your customers, I would argue rocky or your employees and their customers or your customer customers. Um, so, so then send that and then that came along and then I was working with a client and he's like, well, okay, so what's next? And I'm like, no, this is forties. And he's like, no, I think there's something else. And he laughed, laughingly said, death, you know, you die. Um, but then we, I might've been in conversation with you rocky, where we said no, when all of them are clicking then we've got make a difference. And then at that point it felt like the model was like complete. And um, but, but then, you know, I think within a very short time, a couple of years ago of creating peak, I created the, the five d assessment and I started doing it with people inside chick-fil-a cause it's based on chick-fil-a. And it was, people were going, yeah, this is turning light bulbs on. I get it, I see where I am, I see where I need to be very, very quickly. And that's what I loved about it. I was super excited because in 15 minutes somebody could go, wow, I see where I am, I see where I want to be. And then there's the whole thing of like, okay, now we know we create a map and we've got all these resources to help you get from point a to point B, et cetera. But the, the, the, the initial tool is exciting. And then I had someone outside of, truthfully, one of the largest flooring in porter, um, in, in, in the world, uh, and he's the operations manager. And we sit down over a cup of coffee and I didn't even have anything with me. I got to Napkin out and drew it out. And I said, okay, I'm thinking to myself, hey, is this going to work outside of Chick-fil-a? And again, 15 minutes, light bulbs go off and we're off and running on a leadership journey. So yeah, go ahead. I want to be a leader. I want to know where I am in this deep process. How do I get ahold of you? Or how can you help me, the listener, how can you help us right now? What do we have to do? Can we contact you some way? Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, when we just wanna make sure that, you know, you're the, that, that, that that's going to be a good fit for us to have that conversation. But you know, um, uh, but it's very simple and there's no charge obligation or expectation, um, to take someone through, um, five d and lets you see where you're at, um, where you are. So, um, and this 15 minutes take you, take you about 10 to 15 minutes to understand it, probably five, 10 minutes to take it. So within a, you know, a 20 minutes, you're going to have any answers. And the way to do that is to reach out to me through my website. So I, I'm a, I created an peak coaching and that's spelled p e a k e c o a c h, I n g peak coaching with an e@theendofthepeak.com. And on the front page of my website, you can request an invitation that'll go to me and then I'll reach out to you and through a phone conversation or probably more likely a a video conference, you know, within about 20 minutes we can take the assessment. That's great. Because I, people are sending me so many surveys. They want survey, survey survey. This will be a quick survey
Speaker 1:and 15, 20 minutes later, I'm idea where you're at. Yeah. But you know, this is what I, what I'd like to do, uh, being, if you could just, because I, I think for most people, the first three, it makes sense doing delegating, developing. Most people get that. But like, I want you to kind of just maybe a real quick synopsis of the last two because specifically I think that there's a huge jump, huge jump from developing to defining and then from the fourth to the fifth. So I want to make sure that everybody listening has gotten those two and understands them. Would you mind sharing just a little bit more about those?
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure. Um, so in the realm of let's take, let's take definer so we're going in order. Um, so the definers playing is defining the playing field. There they work. Some of the things that we work on, uh, to help you get into that defining role are your, what we call your internal brand, um, for, for you rocky. It's making every story better for, uh, another client that I've worked that I work with, it's a, he has a book called leader farming and, and he thinks about growing people like farming. He grew up, uh, in farming. Uh, um, I have, uh, someone else whose internal brand we're working on a slogan to go with it or a saying to et, etc. But it has to do with that she grew up, um, her family eating around a table and hospitality and sharing a meal. And so she's developing like, what does that mean within my organization for me to develop those kind of relationships with my employees and my customers. Right. Um, I have another client that I work with who came from the world of education and built a charter, built two charter schools. So his internal brand is a chick-fil-a university and he wants to help people, um, to grow not just as Chikungunya employee, but to develop their personal resume and their life skills, et cetera. So, so the, this internal brand, uh, comes out of the personality and desires of the leader and it flavors the internal organization. Um, and then we, you know, we can help the, uh, this person to develop a, you know, a logo or a look, feel, uh, you know, orientation. Like, like how do you handle orientation? Cause,
Speaker 1:and I think we have a, um, like this is probably, even though I think in some ways I'm, I'm moved down a little bit to step five. This is part of our next journey for me is, okay, now we kind of know and we've defined it, but now how do we, how do I communicate that all the way down to 200 people in an intimate way where they get it? And I think that's what you're talking about. You guys helping us do this branding almost.
Speaker 4:Yes. In creating, creating a customer facing. Because now your customers are your team. Um,[inaudible] that's, that's highly professional and polished and buttoned up so that they go, wow, look at how amazing I'm being treated in develop. I'm going to fire something. Yeah. Yeah. Now the, and the other piece of this then is, is the, is the sharpening the saw of that leader. And so we do a lot of work around habits, around planning, around intentionality. Um, and all, all five of the levels have tools that we had, their options that we can plug in and work with. For example, you mentioned braving, braving is designed to help you let measure levels of trust circle and improve those. So all of these are about all the, so we've got kind of the internal brand, a pipeline is related to that and helping your people understand, you know, if I'm a brand new team member and I want to be a Chick-Filet operator, what are the steps? And they can visually see that it's part of your branding and then working on you as the leader. Um, and you know, things like, uh, uh, a leadership retreat that you may lead for your team, etc. So all those tools go in under, uh, the definer and then when all, when everybody is more or less in their lane and things are clicking this then freeze the leader up to spend more time in what we call in the Fifth D, which is difference making a difference. And that's where, and I've seen you doing this rocky, um, you know, you're, you're speaking at a chamber event or uh, you're leading your team in, um, uh, perhaps on a Saturday afternoon you go and you paint houses, um, uh, for, um, you know, people who aren't able to paint there and how you, you, you lead a, uh, a, um, uh, a charity, you know, involvement event and, and so now you and your team are making a difference outside of your restaurant or your organization.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. And you know what, what the weird thing for me is like, I was very comfortable with that step and less comfortable with steps three and four. And that was okay. It's because the, the self test kind of helped to figure that out.
Speaker 4:And if you leapfrog that, which visy your natural inclination to do those things, what's going to ha what, what will happen, right. I mean it's a good question. Like what do you think would happen if you had said, ah, I'm getting two stores, I like public speaking, I'm not really gonna address this defining thing. What would have happened in your organization?
Speaker 1:Oh, I think, you know, um, like I don't think these are steps that you can not do. I think they have to be done again. Otherwise there'll be done by somebody else. Yeah. And I'm not sure like if that's exactly what you were looking for, but I really feel like I would have naturally kind of skipped over the define and the develop pretty quickly. Um, and maybe I would have kind of given them lip service, but I don't think I would've really flushed it out as much.
Speaker 4:And what would that do to your organization?
Speaker 1:You know, I think that, um, you know, we talked about the five d and they're all important, but I think the, the kind of the change, like where your organization really starts steamrolling is when you get into that defining, you know, um, I think you have to get that there. And if you don't, I think you're going to have, you know, you might even have success, but it's not going to be the success that maybe you crave or the CSX the success that's possible for your organization.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And this is where, you know, I've seen, I've seen success stories and I've seen disappointments, rocky and I, I'm so grateful to con, you know, to, to partner with you and enjoy you enjoying, you know, it's not perfect, right. But operational success of your restaurant because you guys have embraced the levels. I, you know, I wouldn't use names, but I can bring to mind and see vividly organizations of your size that are suffering every day because everybody's out of their lane. Um, we haven't really, you know, clearly gotten people into their lanes and, and, um, defining is almost nonexistent and development is really hurting. And so we just sort of what I see and I can think of a very specific organization every time I go in, it's like, didn't we do this yesterday and the day before and the day and the day? And we're just not learning. We're not growing. Sure. From a customer's point of view, we're still, you know, um, we're still delivering and people are pretty happy. Um, but it's kind of miserable. Could it be better? Right. Yeah. It's kind of miserable and you know what that, I mean, we've all experienced days like that, right? Where you're like, hey, the customers are happy, but our team is going home, just beat up. But when you start stringing those together day after day after day, then you know, you've got turnover and headaches and,
Speaker 1:yeah. And I think that's part of it too, is, um, especially with my organization, I'm not keeping many of the people forever. Like, you know, I understand that for me, most of what, um, or most of the people that are joining, they're joining for a season and that's okay. But it means even, uh, more that I have to be able to have these things defined and I have to have a brand where I can communicate it quickly because I have to kind of assume that about every three years out turnover, the majority of my crew to things like college and you know, careers and it's not a negative thing. Not at all. In fact, if I'm doing my job, it's probably what should happen. Um, but again, it, it highlights, it exposes why the defining is such an important part.
Speaker 4:Yeah. One friend of mine, uh, in client, um, you know, compares it to like being a farm team. Right. You know, you know that the purpose that you exist to develop talent for the next, for the big leagues. Right. Right. And when you embrace that, that's cool.
Speaker 1:Right? Yeah. And, and actually when you take join it, um, yeah, because I know for, you know, for me, and I tell the kids this all the time, you guys are going on to bigger and better things and you're super excited, but I'm going to miss the personality of that person. But it helps when I celebrate and say, you know, hey, I think that they learn a few really important things here. That's gonna they're really gonna help them on their journey.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I maybe as we moved towards Kinda wrapping this topic up, I've mentioned it a couple of times, rocky, but we've not really, you know, said what this means. Like when you think about like let's get real specific for you as a definer, you've told me I want to make everybody's story better. Right? And so what does that, you know it with those people who are coming through and with you for three years or in other circumstances, like what does that mean on a day to day basis for you?
Speaker 1:So, so for me it's really, it comes down to understanding that if I'm going to make their story better, there are some that just like you helped me go through this five d process, there are some traits that I have to help them understand and become good at. And if I don't, then I really haven't made, cause for me, I'm probably going to help make their story better as a nurse or a teacher or a husband or a wife or a mother or father. And so, um, there's tenements, you know, there's traits that I don't even know if I necessarily got, I'm young and I learned them as I was coming through, you know, my own journey. But to me a success is, hey, today, did I help that person understand the need for responsibility? Hey, today, did I help that person understand that I was kind to them? And I told them the truth about maybe a lack in their work, um, instead of being, uh, you know, uh, nice. You know, so, so for me it's, it, that's kind of what it looks like. It looks like a lot of small lessons that um, you know, 15 years from now when I see him on Facebook or when they send me a private message where they say, Hey, I really want to tell you that chick-fil-a was some of the funnest times of my life and I learned so much. So it's like sometimes it's kind of, um, it takes a while to get to that, um, good feeling. But uh, it helps me, you know, that knowing that good feeling is possible helps me keep consistent with teaching these lessons.
Speaker 4:Do you, do you apply that filter when you look at a customer?
Speaker 1:I am better at applying that filter to my cause I consider my customer not my customer buying the food and I often think I probably need to think of it that way more. I tend to think of my customer as my team. Okay. So does that make sense? A bing?
Speaker 4:It makes sense. Although I would, I would still argue that or, or, or pose that, I think you're still making those customers' stories better. You just doing it indirectly. So your strategy is to say, Hey, if I make my team members story better, um, and I've got the right team member, they're going to turn around and make my customer's story better. Right. And, and it's those stories that, you know, the person that goes back to their office and says, you know, I went to Blah, blah, blah competitors and I was late getting back to work, but every time I go to Chick-Filet, you know, they get me back to work on time cause they're drive through so fast. Or You, I mean the story that I love to hear, uh, is, um, uh, um, the, the, the, my pleasure thing, like right people, right. People will say, you know, try to get, just try to go into a chicken flavor restaurant and say thank you, but without getting pleasure, you just can't do it. Yeah. And then another funny story, cause uh, you know, for years I was within chip play, now I'm external, now I'm a customer a and I have cheap play clients, but I'm not inside. And I see things differently. And I was recently talking to a client, a team, a leadership team in[inaudible] furniture industry. And they said, well, what's your background? I said, you know, I told them, I said, can Chick-Filet and this one guy says, man, I got a chick-fil-a even when I don't want chicken. Right. You know, like I just find myself turning into the drive through because they treat me so well. Yeah. And I get, and those kinds of stories, like I think you're creating, you create that, you create those by focusing on the story of your leaders and your team.
Speaker 1:You know, we, uh, and you know, internally, sometimes the operators, the other owner operators were kind of, uh, a community. We're a brotherhood and you know, nobody quite understands the, um, the things that are hard as an operator, like another operator. And so we had this group and one of them shared a story where he received a letter, but he didn't receive the letter. Chick-Fil-A Inc received the letter and it was a gentleman who had lost his job, had lost his wife, his wife had divorced him. He was not in contact with his kids and being a single guy again, he turned to Chick-Filet, um, for most of his meals. And he said he was just the worst customer, just absolutely bitter and angry at where life had taken him. And yet every day, um, you know, every time you went to chick play, the people were so nice, even though he was not being nice back, but they were consistent and he was going to a certain store. And so he told the story about how he had gotten to the point where he was done and he was taking his own life. He just could not see any value in living any further. And he went into the chick-fil-a the day before he was planning to do it and the cashier called him by name. And that was the defining moment for here where he realized hearing his name, hearing is his name, spoken by somebody who you know, was just a, you know, a casual acquaintance. It somehow made them understand his value in the world and he sent a letter to chick-fil-a thanking them and saying, you're doing right. Even when you don't think you're doing right
Speaker 4:and I'm still on the planet because somebody took the time to care enough to just know my name. Right. Yeah, absolutely. That's PR. That's huge.
Speaker 1:Well you know, being, I definitely appreciate you coming on and I appreciate you, uh, doing what you do and I know it's been a very important in my journey as a leader and so, um, we enjoy having you on the show and we look forward to hearing more from you in the future. Absolutely. Anyone want to thank everybody for linking up with us today on a server's journey and rocky next week? I know we've got Lauren Blackwell, black Blackburn Blackburn coming in and she's going to help us with this self care. As you guys have started this process so, well I think we're going to have James for the future of the show. We're going to have several counselors and coaches and experts over the next, God knows how many weeks. And then what I'm hoping and being on my share if you're up for it, but what I'm hoping is to pull being and Lauren and some of the other really, you know, some of our favorite guests and almost have them do an episode together where we can kind of get some final thoughts as we worked through this journey. Wow. That would be exciting. I don't know if the studio is big enough. I know, right. We need to expand it. Well thanks bing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, let me just say the first stuff that sounds really exciting. I would love to have a kind of a round table discussion on, on self care for leaders with other experts that that would be stimulating. I, I look forward to that. And the second thing is, um, it's just such a pleasure. I really, um, am honored. Uh, you guys asked me to come speak on your show and I just love partnering with you. Rocky. I love, uh, I love seeing you, um, getting more out of life, you know, and, um, so, you know, just, uh, really appreciate it guys. And they know today,
Speaker 1:I think we need to say once again, how do we get ahold of being if we need to. I think I can actually say this now. Okay. Let's see if you can do it this way. Bang is to go to peak coach coaching.com. And that's p e a k e coaching.com. That's right. Great. Great. Well, again, we want to thank acs created. Thank you. This is a, it's, it's always nice when I get to correct Larry for a change, right? Or the tip of my tongue. Yeah. Thanks CFCs for helping us with the website and we want to remind everybody as always, that we really understand we're all on a journey and it's how you serve while you're in that role. And I just want to remind gem rocky desk to final. I want to thank you for joining us and I want you to ask the question, are you somebody worth following.