From Kodak’s refusal to see digital photography’s writing on the wall to Chick-fil-a’s search for resources on how to find and keep workers, Vice President of High Performance Leadership Mark Miller reviews just how important it is to listen and adapt to the ever-evolving talent pool. Learn how to tell the story of a better boss, a brighter future, and a bigger vision to a generation that craves working for an organization that makes a difference.
From Kodak’s refusal to see digital photography’s writing on the wall to Chick-fil-a’s search for resources on how to find and keep workers, Vice President of High Performance Leadership Mark Miller reviews just how important it is to listen and adapt to the ever-evolving talent pool. Learn how to tell the story of a better boss, a brighter future, and a bigger vision to a generation that craves working for an organization that makes a difference.
The surgery, welcome to this edition of a survivor's journey with rocky desteffano. The premise of this show is that every one is leading something or someone, whether you're a parent leading your family, a coach leading a team or team member leading a few or a CEO leading an organization. We're all on a path of being a leader. Thus the title of the show is called a survivor's journey. Thanks, Larry. I hope that everyone listening will be able to walk this journey of leadership with us. Well, that's good. Today we've got a special guest and his name is Mark Miller and he's vice president of high performance leadership and chick filet. Yeah. Mark Miller began his career with chick fil a, working as an hourly team member in 1977 and. Oh, that was kind of like what you did doesn't. Yeah, a little bit later, you know, don't, don't age me, but you know, but mark then joined the corporate staff in 1978. Okay. Well, first, before we meet mark, what I'd like us to do is introduce a brand new segment here on a service journey and that that segment is called epic failed leaders. Male leadership. So today this is a new segment. We're going to give it a shot and we're going to highlight some epic leadership failures. It seems weird that you want to talk about servant leadership and then epic failed leadership. So my hope is that just do the opposite and you'll be okay. So we're going to talk a little bit about George Fisher, who was George Fisher. So he led Kodak. And here's the crazy thing. A lot of you listeners may not even know what Kodak is. It's film. I'm sorry. I know that was there, but, but not just film. It was, it was honestly, it was the dominant photography consumable business. Like they pretty much cornered the market. They were the apple of photography back in the seventies, sixties, seventies. And so for the film, the film industry, all your movies came out on Kodak Film. So there you go. So, so here's how they failed. So George Fisher, I'm actually, they had a team member who was motivated and who is hungry and humble and smart, who came to George and brought him the first digital camera way back in 1975. Wow. So now think about that. Digital cameras really took hold early two thousands. I mean, so that's 25 something years later. But back in 1975, a motivated team player came to him and handed him the idea for a digital, for a digital camera. And he fisher, he failed to anticipate that there could ever be a time where film was going to be losing, losing ground. How could you not see that? Well, and here's a deal. Has anybody listening ever taken a picture with film? I, you know, maybe some of us have, but nobody born passed. Probably the early nineties ever took a real photograph, right? It's even weird today because people are still trying to use digital cameras. That's where I'll use my phone. Yeah. Yes. Well, here's the novelty. In fact, it's, it's. We've gone so far from film that now these polaroid cameras, the one steps where they actually print the picture, they're all the rave again, but they're the rave because they're nostalgic, so if you think about Kodak, they could have cornered the market still to this day if they had adapted that instead because they didn't adapt it. It actually resulted in the successors of George Fisher because he was. He was canned. I'm filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy and and now we don't even know where Kodak is. No. Now the one, a competitor, Fiji, sorry, Fuji. They actually did read the writing on the wall and they use the expertise that they developed in digital cameras to become a big player. Do you know where the word Kodak came from? I do and I do not. Well, Codec is k o, d a k. You say it forward and backward. It's Kodak one way or the other around the world. It was always easy to say and that's why you go Eastman Kodak went very, very Mr. Eastman was the guy that founded originally very creative in their name, not so creative in their being. Of the future and in the future. Well, that's an epic fail. You Go. Leadership segment here on servers journey. Yep. Thanks you guys. Okay, well let's get a. We learned about an epic failed leader. Let's talk to someone who really knows something that. Yeah, this is the opposite. So as I was mentioning before, mark joined the corporate staff or chick filet in 1978 and in over 30 years with chick filet, he has served in numerous leadership capacities including restaurant operations, quality and customer satisfaction and corporate communications. And during this time he has seen chick-filet grow from a small company to annual sales of over$9,000,000,000. And the company expanding to more than 2100 restaurant in almost every state in the US. And you know, mark is a best selling author. He's written books like leaders are made here, building a leadership culture. The secret of teams. He's also coauthored with Ken Blanchard and his latest book is called talent magnet, which is a book I really enjoyed. Mark, let's start with your story. How you know, I kind of mentioned that you started with chick fil a in 1977 to talk about your story and how you got here.
Speaker 2:Well, I started in a restaurant as an hourly team member. I worked for Bubba, Cathy Truett, cathy youngest son. He was my operator and we both realized very, very quickly that I was not cut out for the restaurant business. And I was just awful. I, as I talked to other business leaders, I asked them to think about the worst employee they ever hired. That was me. And uh, thankfully I escaped after about six months without bob a firing rate, which I thought was quite an accomplishment and I made my way to the Home Office, which made perfect sense to me as a kid, right? I, I, I wasn't good in the restaurant, but maybe I could work at the Home Office. And so I walked in and told the receptionist that I wanted a job in the warehouse. And just a moment later, truett cathy came out, took me into his office to conduct the interview. And people have often felt that odd and I share with them the rest of the story I was interviewing to be the 16th corporate employee when you only have 15 employees, it makes a little more sense that the Hitman is actually doing the interviews and a true it after just a few questions and told me I could have the job working in his warehouse and got to also work in the mail room. I didn't know that it was a surfer and so that started my career and that was 40 years ago. This year. It's been a. it's been quite a journey since then. How big was that warehouse? Well, it's, it's interesting you asked that question, but there were four of us working in the warehouse out of 16 people. Wow. That was a big part of the organization. But what we did back then is the warehouse has two primary functions. One is least shipped the truck and every new location. So we packaged up with everything they would need down to the small wares and the pots and the pans and the paper towel dispenser. So we would pack those trucks. And then we would send operators parts that we stopped so that when various pieces of equipment would go down, they could count on us to get them something in a timely fashion. And so it was a significant part of the corporate staff as far as even back in the day.
Speaker 1:How many stores were there with chick les when you joined? There were about 75. Oh Wow. Wow. I didn't realize there were that many then we, we kinda spoke about. So. So you really have seen it from 75 to well over 2000 stores now. And 9 billion in sales, which is a staggering number when I think about it. Yeah, it's been
Speaker 3:a, it's been a great adventure. And I've had the privilege to work all across the business. A friend of mine here at the chick filet introduced me at an event recently and he said, I'm a guy who can't hold down a job. I said, well that's one way to look at it. Um, but I have just been so thankful for the opportunity to work in really six or eight or 10 different roles over over 40 years. You know, mark, um, we're, we're going to get to your books to hear because I think that's where you just had tremendous impact in my life for sure. And before we kind of get to your books, I'm kind of interested if you could, to answer maybe this question about what do you see the difference between a good book and a great book? What do you look for as you're writing? Well
Speaker 2:here, here's, I guess my, my cut on that. I'm all good books. Have something in common. Okay, great. Good content. Yeah, for sure. But a great book is differentiated by the timing in which you interact with that content. I could, I could write a book today that's good and that content will be good indefinitely, assuming it's not a topic trending, trending topic or something, but I might read that book five years from now or have read it five years ago when that timing in my life and my circumstances elevated that good content to great content. Wow, that's a great way of looking at it for sure. And I think sometimes it depends what you're going through a moment. Exactly. Yeah. I think it always depends on that. I mean, I think we, we run everything we read and hear and are exposed to through our current circumstances and if, if I'm struggling raising a teenager, a book on that topic makes a lot more sense than to read it when that child was three or when that child is 30. Sure. Yeah. Same is true with leadership books. If you're having trouble with employee engagement, that's when that good book can become a great book.
Speaker 3:So, so let me ask you a question. Is there a great author or a great book that you have read or that you liked that just doesn't get the credit they deserve?
Speaker 2:Well, it, that's another wonderful question. Um, as far as authors go, I think Henry cloud now, although he's very famous and he sold millions of books, I don't think he gets the credit in business circles because he has done so many faith based books. I just, I just don't think he gets the street cred among business leaders and ceos, but his book necessary endings is one of the best books I have ever read business for business leader.
Speaker 3:I tell you what, that book has guided me through some really tough decisions. I tend to be a heart person so you know, I value results, but I value relationships and if I'm not cautious, I overvalue those sometimes and that quick has greatly helped me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't know if you remember where you got that book and I don't know for sure, but I sent a copy to every operator about five years ago. I just, I just bought a couple thousand of them and send them out. I'm pretty sure that's where I got it because I said this, so that's just. That's just one example. Henry has done several other books that are really, really, really good for business leaders and I don't think he gets enough street cred with business leaders. I specific book I think was the other part of your question. A book I stumbled upon a couple of years ago that I had never heard of and I've not heard anyone really talking about it, but I've been giving it out. It's called insanely simple by Ken segall and here's the quick overview on that. He did an insider's look at apple's success. He was on Steve's team for about 10 years, and here's the premise of the book as I interpreted it, people think steve jobs was apple's secret sauce. He says that is not correct. He said, Steve Jobs, maniacal focus on simplicity was what made apple great. It is a fascinating book and I, I, I've given a lots of copies. So I think that book doesn't get the credit. It's new. It's been out. It's a six year old book. I just discovered it about 18 months ago. Wow, that's insanely simple, powerful, powerful book.
Speaker 3:Okay. So, so mark, you've been, uh, you, you really are, you're, you're mentioning other authors, but you're, you're a bestselling author here. You're in your own right. And you've had books like leaders made here beating a, building, a leadership culture. My personal favorite, although I don't know if I can pick one, but chess not checkers really spoke to me and I think it was maybe what I was going through. You know, you've written the secret, uh, teams, um, you know, the heart of leadership and then your most recent book that the talent magnet, and I'm wondering how did you get started writing about leadership?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm, I'm, I'm the accidental author is the full truth. Don't, don't tell anybody I said that, but that's exactly the best way to label me. I never had any desire or aspirations to write books and almost 20 years ago we were working on how to accelerate leadership development at chick fil a. We just solve that need in our corporate staff. We could see it on the horizon as the restaurants were growing in volume and complexity. We felt like operators, we're gonna need to accelerate leadership development. And so I was asked to lead a team to work on that and I'll spare you those details. But as we neared the end of that work, we had created what we now call our service model and we actually had a crisis of confidence. I don't know any other way to describe it because we sell chicken, right? I mean, this was, this was not, this was not our area of expertise, but I will say the team was fantastic and, and had worked diligently for a couple of years. I mean, you look at the serve model, I think it's really pretty simple. Well, we think there's often some, something simple on the other side of complexity. We walked through two years of complexity to try and figure out what is the essence of our belief about leadership. And so we got to that point and we had this crisis of competence and we said, what is, what if this is not right? I mean, that's actually the question we were wrestling with as a team and either coincidence or divine appointment, uh, you can decide I was going to be with Ken Blanchard the next day. And I said, well, why don't we get some other people who know a lot more about leadership than we do to, to weigh in and tell us what they think? And so I told them I was going to be with Ken the next day. And they say, well, that'd be great. And so I said, Ken, the serve model, and I said, Ken, we've been trying to accelerate leadership development. I need you to look at this. Tell me, do you think it's true? Do you think it's valid? Do you think it'll stand the test of time? Did we miss anything? And the first thing out of his mouth was, this has to be a book. Oh Wow. First thing he said, and I blew him off and I said, can't everything looks like a book. I mean, he's a friend of mine, I can say those kinds of things, right? I said, everything looks like above you, which by the way is when I sold about 70 million. And he said, he said, we don't want to write a book, we just want to accelerate leadership development. And he said, you don't understand. And I said, okay, what do I not understand? I mean, there's a lot I don't understand, but you know, what are you referring to specifically? He said you guys were trying to articulate what great leaders do at chick fil a. He said, once you have done is you have articulated what great leaders have done throughout history and it has to be a book, and so he persisted and that's how I became an author. Um, and so that was my first first Rodeo, so to speak, and he was a tremendous, a coauthor partner and mentor and I'm kind of establish the pattern that I have used for all of my books and that was a direct reflection of working with them.
Speaker 3:So, so talk about what is your writing process like because I, I love writing and I'm really good for about a couple thousand words and then I kind of Peter out. What, how do you, how do you, you know, right. I mean, how do you, and especially how do you write this much and still be relevant?
Speaker 2:Well, that is, that is the goal is, is to remain relevant. I think, um, my process, and I'm not assuming that this would even work for anyone else. And I often, I don't know if some of your listeners might not have read my books. I don't write real bugs. So I think he got to start there. Uh, these are, these are stories and I tell people, I don't know that I've got the skill nor the temperament to write a real book that I can tell a story. So I think I've got a headstart by saying all we're trying to do when I'm writing a book because I'm trying to, to, to discover or to discern what is true that is, that is step one. Because if it's not true, it's not going to resonate. It's not going to add value. It's not, again, that connect is not going to stand the test of time. So every one of my projects begins with the search for truth.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, that's where we start and I feel though, I mean you're, you're, you're under underestimating yourself. I think it's the story that type. It's what makes it so approachable for so many people. You know, I have a wide array of people from age 16, sometimes even a 15 year old don't in there all the way to 50 year old. And what I love about your books is that they're so approachable. Anybody that they're not intimidating, but yet there's at the core, that truth that you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for that because that is, you ask about my process. It begins with that search for truth and then I'm trying to find a way to make the truth approachable and the applicable. Okay. So that's my deal. I mean, I've been told I'm painfully pragmatic and the person who said that, I don't think they meant it as a compliment and I said thank you because it, I think there's so much truth that is, that is irrelevant, not because it's not true, but because it's not acted upon. So if I can, if I can find what's true, make it approachable and make it actionable. Um, that's, that's it. That's the perfect storm for me. If I can pull those things together.
Speaker 3:Wow. I think you have for sure. Well, thanks so, so in, in, in this reason book that. And I guess it's talent magnet is not the talent magnet. Let me get that right. It seems to be, you know, I know you did a lot of research before you wrote this book. Can you talk about the interviews you did, how many and who did you ask? Sure, and
Speaker 2:so forth. Sure. Well, let me. Yeah, let me. Let me just back up half a step and say all of the books have been researched, but some of them have been qualitative, some quantitative and some, but this was both. This was the most researched project we've ever done and the story behind that is when our operators came to us and said their number one issue was finding and keeping people that got our attention right because we'd been tracking operator issues I guess for 30 plus years and it had always been in the top 10, but usually it hovered between five, seven and is what you will know rocky. Part of this is our business model. The most operators have 75 percent of their team are teenagers and so there's some turnover that's built into the system and so it's. It's an ever present but historically not urgent issue. Well, it showed up as the number one issue for the first time in history and that got our attention. Is that prevalent in all industry or just in the fast food industry? Well, the talent is kind of the popular term that has been buzzing around for close to 20 years and in some segments there's been a war for talent for two decades for any number of reasons. We had boycotted that by and large, I mean there are certain operators in certain locations that have always had a unique challenge. But as a chain we had not a, we hadn't felt that and any number of factors, demographic, economic, uh, you know, even down to the unemployment statistics on and on and have, have a, have moved the battle front to our doorstep. And so the operators were failing in and out. I got a call from Tim to sop lists who's now our president. He was head of operations and it was, it was funny. I knew it was important because we were trying to find a time to meet and we were looking at our calendar and it was going to take several weeks to get together. And they said, okay, we're going to be on an offsite together next week. Let's meet at 10:30 at night and I'm going, okay, this is important enough that they're saying, no, we're gonna. We're just gonna. We're gonna. Get this done, and the topic of that meeting was how can we better help our operators with this issue? Understanding that they're independent business people and leadership and management practices are at the sole discretion of an independent operator, but we said, how might we serve them and Tim and cliff acknowledge that some of the resources that we had produced in the past had in fact serve the operators and so they said, why don't you? Why don't you go to work and see what you can come up with and relating to your question about the research. I'm not easily thought that I would just go buy some research and then again, because I'm starting, I'm always looking for truth. Not still have to go through the process of making it approachable and make clickable. And what I discovered, and this still boggles my mind, every time I have to tell you what I'm about to tell you, we could not find any research in the history of the world or what attracts top talent that that's amazing to me. Still still amazing to me. Uh, I can't actually believe it. I'm assuming people have done it and they just don't want to confess, but we couldn't find it. We certainly couldn't buy it. So we commissioned what we believe to be the first ever study of what attracts top talent. And in the process we wanted to do both quantitative and qualitative. And so without getting too deep here, we did a national survey all 50 states slash 14 to 65 and all the, the diverse demographics that you would expect to be sure that we had a really legit sample, thousands of people in that. We also got into some organizations that lead us into their performance management system so we could actually survey their staff and we segmented and surveyed their top performers and those secondary or b player, you know, typical talent as we call it in the book. So that we could look for differences in their practice area for choosing that organization. And then on top of that we did about 450 interviews. So the biggest research project we've ever encountered, spent a couple of years trying to figure out what is true so that I could continue my process.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. So, so talk about some of the things that you found that were true. I mean some of the things that you write in the book. I know you mentioned some about, you know, one thing is that it's important that hr know your story. So you know, talk about some of the things that you found that tended to be truth.
Speaker 2:Okay, well I'll come. I'll come back around to the HR part because that is one of the things we found, but there are a couple of prerequisites that I think are priority that lead to that conclusion. Uh, we, we figured out that top talents looking for three things. I'll hit this for you really quick, and then if you want to probe, we certainly can go there and they want a better boss. Now when I share that with people, they're kind of going, well, doesn't everybody want a better boss? Well, yes and no. Everybody would tell you they do. But for top talent it's a condition of employment. Wow. Talent. They had liked to have a better boss, but if I got a lousy one, they'll keep working for you. I'll just talk bad about you in the hall and dinner when their family and all that kind of stuff at top. Talent, they won't stay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We did a, uh, a previous episode and we actually did a show about how top talent, they don't quit organizations. They quit their boss. So I think you're right. I think for the top talent that is imperative. It's a must have.
Speaker 2:Yep. But just put an asterisk on that. It's just not the senior leader. It's its leaders within the organization. And often those feelings and attributes are personalized in their immediate supervisor and it can't. It can't. It's not sufficient rockie for you to be a great leader if you got a crappy leadership team and an for frontline supervisors, your top talent, they're not going to overlook all that and say, well, rocky, he's a good guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, I'm finding that more and more as my organization grows and as my sales continue to increase and my leadership team, it's around 29 people. If I really count everybody that we would put as leaders, it's even more important that their direct leader is that better boss. They actually will cut me a little bit of slack because they don't deal with me directly every single moment, but it's really that boss that they would consider to be their boss. So yeah, you're right, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yep. So they want a better boss, but also the second thing they want, they want a brighter future. Okay. They want a brighter future. Now again, you might say, well, doesn't everybody want a brighter future? Well, that's another tricky question because here's what we discovered. Typical talent, not that they would turn you down, right? If you offer them a brighter future, but typical talent doesn't think as much about the future, that's one of the differentiators. Top talent has a much greater future orientation, so they walk into the interview, forget the job before the job. They're walking into the interview with a different set of questions. They're asking how a lot grow, what will I learn? How will I be challenged? How a lobby stretched, how will this job or this role make me more employable in the future? Must not asking those questions.
Speaker 3:Yep, Yep, Yep. You're, you know, you're, you're 100 percent correct on that and, and not only what we find is you can keep people longer, as long as you consistently help them grow. So though kind of stick around for another year or so, if they feel like, well, I learned this, but now I can learn this, and I do think it's part of it, especially with the age group that we employee that they're looking for. This will make me a much more attractive person throughout my career.
Speaker 2:Right? And that's why when we talk about this whole idea of talent magnet, it's about attracting and keeping, because if you, if you do these things, there's also a retention effect, but as you just said, if you don't deliver, let's say, even if you make the promise and they come on board and find it, it's not true. They'll leave. Yep. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. No, you're right. For sure. Yeah. So I want a better boss. They want a brighter future and they want a bigger vision, bigger vision. They want an organization that's trying to make a difference. They want to make a difference and they see this as a, uh, an extension in some ways of, of themselves that they're looking for an organization and even a brand that they can have some personal resonance with. Um, it's just, it's just fascinating. And I think it's, that's a close connection to that future orientation, right? That's why they're thinking impact. That's why they're thinking about more than the job itself. And so those are the three things that I'm, the research indicates top talent is looking for.
Speaker 3:So we've heard over and over about this idea of the war on talent and I, you know, I've always kind of found it interesting because I think we're really finding that we're, we've never graduated more graduates than we than we're doing right now. So I feel like there's all these people that are coming into the workforce, but a lot of industries, a lot of companies would say we're in a desperate war for talent. And you know, I guess this book is saying that, well, you haven't figured out one of these three yet. Is that, is that a fair comment?
Speaker 2:Well, actually there's a fourth and you referenced it earlier. You asked about her knowing your story. Here's what we learned. Those, those three find the exact just shared, I would call the direct findings. That's what the research says. What we discovered, and I'm calling this an indirect finding, but I, I believe is just as important as the other three. And we'd, we learned this really by talking to business leaders about those three. And I even had some chick fil a operators challenge me and say, I think you missed. I'm going, well, I appreciate your perspective, you know, help me understand that because we got all this research, we wrote these big checks and we spend all this time. I mean, I'm not saying we couldn't miss it, but tell me why you think we missed it. And I had multiple leaders say I am doing those three things and I still can't attract great talent. And what we discovered this fourth finding is that awareness is a significant part of the solution. If you do those things and people don't know you get no credit. And so even as I've shared that with business leaders, I've had some leaders point blank say, God, I do tell the story. I said, okay, what does that look like? Is I included in every orientation class? And I said, well, if you're trying to attract talent, aren't the people in Orientation, folks you've already selected, like how do you proactively tell the story to attract people? And then sometimes here's the other kicker I've learned just again another indirect finding around telling the story and this is a sensitive issue particularly here at Chick Fil A. Because I've got some operators that had one operator tell me, said, no, you're wrong. He said, I got your three things. I'm doing that, and you're saying, I got to tell the story, and he said, I tell the story everywhere I go, and I said, what story are you telling? And he said, I tell them about true at Kathy and about cokes out of a wagon, and I said, I love true at like my own father, but that's not the story that's going to attract top talent to tell your story. You got to tell better boss, brighter future, bigger vision. That story, that story, that's what's going to attract them. I said, no, take the truest story and there's a lot of value. There's a lot of legacy and there's a lot of history and put that in orientation, but when you're going out and talking to that youth group and you're trying to, you're trying to attract young people. You got to talk about better boss and what that means to you and your plans to lead them well and to help them grow as a leader if they choose to. The brighter future in the bigger vision and what you're about and what's your restaurants about. Um, and so I know in some circles that's kind of touchy. So are you saying we shouldn't talk about true? And I said no, that's not what I'm saying at all, but remember, this is a future oriented person and if, if you think about what you're doing, you're actually telling them a story that happened almost a hundred years ago for about a person they've never met or never heard of. Yeah,
Speaker 3:yeah. You did write about that. You, you know, what, what we noticed too is that what we found has been one of the most successful things that we've done in our recruiting. And we didn't do it for this reason. We thought we started on our social media of recognizing people that were leaving our organization for bigger and better things in their field. So we just last week had a marketing director that had been with us for probably seven years all through high school and college who graduated, got her degree in event management and had just gotten a job with a really prestigious hotel from, you know, in our area and we would just thanking her for being such a great part of our team and yet it was one of our most liked a post and we've had actually people reference it when they come and take or handed an application. They're actually referencing and saying why I love a company that helps and, and is okay with people leaving on to bigger and better things. So I think it Kinda goes back to what you're saying in, in a, in a way without meaning to. We were showing that there's this growth and not only here but there's a growth going forward too.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'm not surprised. I need to be sure and clarify for your listeners when you're in the midst of all of our research, we visited about 45 or 50 chick filet restaurants that had an outstanding reputation for amazing people. And your listeners need to know, rocky, that I sat in your dining room with you and your people. Uh, so I'm not surprised at all that, that you would do that. Um, that's, that's how you get such great people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we, we, you know, we, and, and these are things, mark, that, you know, the reason why I wanted you to come on is that you've had a tremendous impact on chick fil a but not only chick fil a, now you could have an impact on, on business as a whole. But in my personal story, you started teaching and preaching the, you know, this high performance leadership model. You started teaching years before I felt the crunch that I had better change or else it was going to start hurting. And so I think you kind of really helped the learning curve for me. And, uh, so I, I appreciate it. I don't think it would've been possible for me to be the leader I am today if it wasn't for people like you who had the, you know, four k, you know, the, you know, the vision to see it before it was really happening within chick-filet. Well, thanks for that. Let's just keep learning together. How about that? That's exactly right. I've got to jump in here. Mark and Larry has got a question about the story. He wants to know what happened to the hotel owner,
Speaker 2:what happened to the hotel owner? Uh, I think he realized and for those in the audience that don't know, there is a character in talent magnet who, let's just call him a, what would we call him? A Naysayer on this whole idea of top talent. He just, he just hadn't bought the vision or hadn't caught the vision, I should say. And what happened to him? Um, people change for one of three reasons. Vision, pain or fear of future consequences. And sometimes it's a combination. And I think if you play that storyline out, it was a combination of pain and fear of future consequences. I don't think he went to the, uh, shifted his strategy because of vision, even though, you know, blake was trying to cast a compelling vision, um, he was hurting, he was having trouble staffing his business with the caliber of people he needed to be successful and I think he saw the handwriting on the wall and so he made the shift that every successful talent magnet makes and it starts with the leaders shift to believe that I can actually attract top talent. There's so many leaders that don't pursue this as a strategy because they think it's out of reach. It's like the high school kid that doesn't want to ask out the cheerleader because he believes that, you know, she's, he's not in her league. We've got a lot of leaders in the world that are going, yeah, maybe google, Amazon, they can pursue top talent. I, and I just think that's, that's just wrong headed. And the hotel owner made that shift.
Speaker 1:So you did make the shift and he is growing. Absolutely. It's hypothetical, right? Absolutely. But it was a good read. I really enjoyed it. So thank you mark. You know, I want to thank you so much for, for being on the podcast, but before we go, we have a, we have a couple of quick fun segments if you don't mind. Uh, and we call the first one, this one or that one. And in this segment there's really no right or wrong answer, but we're going to kind of give you two people and we want you to kind of tell us which one you prefer, which one's your favorite and maybe a little bit about why you game. Sure. Alright. So the first two are elan musk or Richard Branson. Oh Wow. I like both those guys. It's okay. That can be an answer to
Speaker 2:Branson I think because a musk is probably the bigger visionary in, from what I know and have read and heard them speak, but Branson, he is so good at escaping conventional thinking. I think that's his greatest strength probably he's not bound by what has worked or hasn't in the past and I just think that is such a tremendous asset for leaders.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There there's a special gift when people don't see obstacles. Yeah. Okay. Steve Jobs or Bill Gates,
Speaker 2:well, it's got to be steve because I become a disciple of, of simplicity. And uh, that book insanely simple has, has made me an even bigger steve jobs thing, you know, there are a lot of leaders in the world that, that couldn't be him and there are many who wouldn't want to beat him for all kinds of reasons, but if I think the world would be a better place if, if leaders could grasp the power of simplicity. Quick Story from the book, when they first brought him the first iphone, he threw the guy out of his office and so the guys out in the hall says, what happened? He said he hit me with the simple stick again. He told me to come back when it had one button instead of three. What was his rationale? And he said that one button is better than three.
Speaker 1:Wow. I love, I love Steve Jobs only because of the simplicity. I guess the packaging that the thought that goes in just to open up one of his packages.
Speaker 2:Well, the packaging is the advertising is the product design. It's the functionality. Um, I mean it just permeated the organization and so that, that's why I think I would, um, I'd, I'd vote for him in this scenario though.
Speaker 3:Okay. How about Steven Spielberg or Walt Disney? I'm actually happy you're pausing because it means we.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would, I would probably, I would probably say Disney again, only similar to some of my other responses because he, he was innovating, not that Spielberg didn't, but walt was inventing things that didn't exist, Spielberg leveraged and extended and expanded what existed, but you know, you may know the story even better than I, but Disney was inventing the cameras and venting the equipment, the technology to, to make his vision a reality. And there's something about that innovator, uh, in Disney that would collect my vote.
Speaker 3:Okay. So last two are purely for fun. The first one is star wars or Harry Potter.
Speaker 2:Harry Potter. I love the imagination. Not that there's no imagination and star wars, but I've often wondered as a, as the accidental author you
Speaker 3:the world. Did she come up with some of that stuff? No, no doubt about that are. All right. So last one is going to be, and this is very personal to me, I, I live in a house with four women. I have three daughters and so they did they command that. I asked this question, but Broadway or rock'n'roll
Speaker 2:I'm afraid it's rocky
Speaker 3:for me. It used to be rock and roll for me, but not, not so much anymore. Yeah. Well, you know, mark, I'm not sure if you pass the test or not, but uh, we're going to go onto this final segment, but what I was wanting to get from you is tell us, is there a favorite leader or somebody who really inspires you and if not, maybe a life quote that you try to live by.
Speaker 2:Well, let's go with that second question. A fun little story. I was doing a tweet chat. I don't know if you've done a tweet chat. I had never done one for those listening, that might not know what that is. It's basically like trying to have a conversation with the entire world at one time. And it was, it was really giving me a headache and the way it was structured is the host would get me a question and I would tweet a response out into the twittersphere and for about five minutes people would react and respond. It would have a very brief, intense, succinct conversation all through twitter about that question. And we do the next one and the next one and the next one. So we've been doing this for almost an hour. My brain was about to explode. And my final question was, what's the best leadership advice you've ever received? I was telling my mom this when she's, she's in her eighties and she said, well, at least you had 140 words. Didn't quite get twitter. And I said, no mom at 140 characters. But as a proud she knew that part and she says a, I bet that was really hard. And I said it was, but it's the best leadership advice I ever received above all else. Guard your heart for everything you do. Flows from it. That's fantastic. And know where that comes from. Yes. That that comes from the book of proverbs, King Solomon, the wisest man that ever lived and I think it's the best advice I've ever received in trucks. So I try to pass that on to leaders when ever I can because if your heart's not right and nobody cares about your skills and that definitely fits in your, your theme of simplicity too, that's a pretty easy thing to listen to and know that it's correct and, and hard to manage on a day to day basis. Absolutely. So yeah, talk to us about how we can contact you and, and where do we get your books or, or ask you to come speak at a conference. Kind of give us some information from you. Okay. Well, um, my cell number is six seven, eight six. One, two, eight, four, four. One. And text messaging works really well. The voicemail is almost always full, but the text messaging works great and you can just call. If I'm not in the meeting I'll take your call. Um, that's probably the best way to reach me. I'm on twitter at leaders serve. I'm on instagram at t mark Miller. But most of that family stuff, although I'm thinking about expanding that, I'm seeing more and more people trying to use it as a platform for content, so I'm. I'm toying with that right now, but as far as getting the book,
Speaker 4:they're, they're on Amazon, Barnes and noble, and you know, most bookstores you can find a should have them that may not have some of the older titles, but they're all still in print and so I'm available through Amazon.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us here on a service journey. Remember, just subscribed to the podcast and you'll hear more what rocky wants to share with you to be good leaders, learning to lead by serving, and if you subscribe to the podcast, you'll be getting the new servers journey moment. A quick pick me up to help you start your day. If you like, what you hear will tell a friend like us, share us on facebook. Also from time to time, rocky has some great personal stories that he likes to share and you can get them on the website, a service journey.com. So rocky, until next time I'm. You're ever faithful companion, Larry. We are all on a journey and it's really all about how you lead on that journey and that's why we're sharing this a server's journey. I'm rocky Desta final. Thanks for joining with us as together we learned to be better leaders years.