Stage 2 of the 4 phases of the build process is Design. This is normally the most exciting stage of the build as this is where your ideas and dreams are translated into documentation. Done correcetly this can set you up for success during the construction process.
Stage 2 of the 4 phases of the build process is Design. This is normally the most exciting stage of the build as this is where your ideas and dreams are translated into documentation. Done correcetly this can set you up for success during the construction process.
Speaker 1: Welcome to building with Bluebird, the design and renovation podcast brought to you by Christian Case and Jeremy Thomason directors of Bluebird design and build highlighting the dos and Don's of renovating or building your dream home. This podcast will give you the insider's guide to the home building journey, as well as interviewing other industry specialists, Christian and Jeremy bring their knowledge and expertise to the table for you. Good people. Now let's get into this episode [00:00:30] and if you enjoy, please like share and subscribe.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone. And welcome back to building with Bluebird. Last episode, we touched on the four phases of the build process, which was preliminary. And now, now we're looking at stage two, which is design designs normally looked upon as probably the more exciting stage of the process of building, which rightly so is when you start seeing things come to life. So we'll jump straight into it and hopefully give you some information.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So a lot of people really struggle with where [00:01:00] to start in this area of the build process. Would you say that's correct?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's a lot to sort of do and a lot of people to talk to a lot of consultants.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's pretty daunting. A lot of people dunno where to start. So when we start stage two, which is the design, you've gotta choose, basically, who's gonna draw your plans. So that normally falls under three headings, either a draft, a building designer or an architect, but also this is the time when you should be engaging a builder and speaking with multiple builders [00:01:30] and getting them engaged to work alongside whoever you decide to design your house.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I mean, it's good to have everyone in, at the start of the project. So everyone's moving in the same direction and knows what's going on. Especially the general construction methods of how the house, what we built that forms a massive part of the design and also the budget.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Especially at the moment where in February, 2022, the market in terms of pricing [00:02:00] for materials is changing monthly. Really. So trying to keep up with, up to date pricing, I know designers and architects and building designers. They're not across it. The only people that really are, uh, people that are buying it daily, which are builders. So this is when you engage 'em to work alongside your design of choice under those three different headings of drafty building designer and architect. Probably the biggest question is who you engage a draftee is normally somebody that you probably engage if you know what [00:02:30] you want, and you just want it translated to a set of documentation that can be put through council and priced. They're normally the, I wanna say lease skilled, but then sometimes I've seen some draftees that are probably better than most architects out there, but in terms of education level to be a draftee is very minimal. The next level up is building designer. And then the next level up on top of that is architect. So architects have the highest level of education normally doing university for several years, and then they've gotta work in a practice and [00:03:00] then get registered and sit before a board and put themselves forward and then get registered. You can actually study architecture at university, but doesn't mean you're an architect until you're actually registered with a registered license. You cannot call yourself an architect.
Speaker 3: So building designers quite often go through a lot of the same training.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So building designers, normally the another association they're normally trained at TAFE when they've probably either got a cert for, or they've just got a taste certificate. And I believe building designs actually probably [00:03:30] the best mixture of everything because you get a mix of the sort of design, but you also learn about materials a bit more, whereas architecture, I more focused on design over materials and costings and those sort of things
Speaker 3: Practicality perhaps.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Sometimes
Speaker 3: Not always.
Speaker 2: No, not always. Like I've seen some pretty crazy building designers out there. Yeah. Working off sky hooks and can levers that can't physically happen. But yeah, it's just, it's about the level of detail you want to go on your plans. So, so the draft [00:04:00] is obviously normally the cheapest and they'll give you a set of documentation based on exactly what you want. And then you've got building designers, which I think a big fan of that. They're a mix of everyone. They'll give you a set of documentation based on what you want, but also they'll give you some different options or that's what we do here that will get your years. And then also give you some other ideas and some concepts that maybe you haven't thought of. And then the architects, sometimes I've heard of people putting a brief towards an architect and then the architect just goes and throws [00:04:30] it out the window and does whatever they want. So
Speaker 3: I have heard that also,
Speaker 2: It just all depends, I guess, on the practice and what they wanted to do. There's a lot of architects and building designers that have got their certain not only work on maybe a modern house or using certain timbers or just a different style of aesthetics. So it all really depends on what you're wanting and how much you're wanting to spend, I guess, as well, which is probably the next restraint on who you're gonna choose, whether it be a draftee building designer architect.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the pricing structure of how those different consultants [00:05:00] work draftee is normally one to 2% of a total project budget.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's some pretty loose units out there that charge under five grand for a set of drawings, but normally a decent draftee you'll charge between five and 10 grand or one or 2% of your project.
Speaker 3: So building designers start to sort of sneak up over the draftees costs. Yep. Between and 10%.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That'd be correct. It depends on the practice I guess, but there's guys out there they're charging over that, but general industry building designers [00:05:30] sit in that middle range between 10 grand to 30, 40 K,
Speaker 3: And then finally architects, which can vary largely. They normally started around 8% of project budget and then can go up up to
Speaker 2: 16%
Speaker 3: 16. Yeah. And then if they're managing the project as well, they can be charging project management fees.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is normally about 10% of the project
Speaker 3: Do okay. Don't they?
Speaker 2: They do. But obviously the budget drives your design. So knowing your budget, as we touched on in preliminary [00:06:00] is the number one driver in your designing process, you should always know that. And whoever you engage a drafty building designer, an architect, if they don't ask you what your budget is, then I'd be a bit worried
Speaker 3: Unless your budget is unlimited.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. They're the ideal client.
Speaker 3: They're unicorn
Speaker 2: Feel free to reach out, but yeah. Getting the budget correct. And actually passing that on to whoever's designing it is the number one thing you should be doing. That's the restrain that controls your whole project.
Speaker 3: Yeah. For most people. Anyway, [00:06:30] a lot of people do seem to be a bit funny about giving up their budget. Yes. Whether it be to the designer or, or the builder, they always seem to come in with a lower budget thinking that if we're given a bigger budget, we'll just use it up. Yep. Which is not really the case. So I mean, it is good to be honest with all of your consultants about your project budget.
Speaker 2: I think it's just about trust.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Choose a team that you think you can trust.
Speaker 2: So when you're meeting with people, just ask question, just ask them, how do you design to a budget? [00:07:00] Oh, he throws a lot of them out. What are their square meter rates most or all designers should know square meter rates or at least a basis of that. Because that'll give you an outline of what you're building, how many square meters you can build on your project. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Like getting that footprint right at the start so that the budget doesn't blow out. You don't have to start ripping out finishes. And
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's
Speaker 3: Probably of the job.
Speaker 2: That's probably the wrong way that a lot of people go about design. They get this great design. The house is 300 square meters and [00:07:30] it's over budget. So instead of reducing their square meterage, they'll reduce the finishes, which is the thing that finishes the home. Like that's what you see every day. So obvious size will come into play when you're building a house. But obviously you want the finishes to be correct. You don't wanna be sitting in this stark box, that's got the lowest of the low. Like you wanna be able to buy quality materials and bathroom fixtures and fittings that are gonna last.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So when someone comes to you, a new client, they've got an idea of what they wanna do information. Do [00:08:00] you want them to have so that you can get started and feel out their wishlist essentially?
Speaker 2: Well, obviously budget's the first one. And then second is their wishlist of the house. So finding out how someone uses their property is the number one priority as well. How many family members you've got are your people that really want indoor outdoor? Do you entertain a lot? Do you want a pool? Do you work from home? A big thing we're seeing at the moment is home officers and gyms. So that's a big thing [00:08:30] that's coming into play, obviously with COVID that we've had. And a lot of people working from home now they're turning inwards and spending a lot more time at home. So they wanna make sure that they're comfortable, but yeah. Finding at how they operate day to day, are they sort of people that sit at a breakfast bar in the morning and get ready and the kids can eat there or do they sit down every evening and sit at the table, have a, a sit down meal. It just really depends on finding out how they actually use the house itself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: And everybody's different. That's the thing. Like I've got a family. So if I was the design it for myself, it's [00:09:00] based around family and obviously having an area for the kids and something, I can hide the toys, but then also an area that I can entertain.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So asking those questions is really key.
Speaker 2: Yeah. We go through that wish list and the on ramp survey and most designers do that, but also having your wishlist in place is ideal. So obviously the minimum, I need X amount of bedrooms, X amount of bathrooms,
Speaker 3: The non-negotiables and then the,
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you
Speaker 3: Start with,
Speaker 2: Yeah. You start with the things that are non-negotiable that you can't part with down to the bottom [00:09:30] of the list that you just love. And then, yeah. It's easier to pull them out if you, because a big issue we're seeing is that people are designing just these great houses and they're wonderful designs, but people just can't afford them, which is just pretty heartbreaking when you go back to them with a, a bill quote and they just, you gotta pull out half the house.
Speaker 3: Some people always seem to find a bit more money.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is always great. We haven't had that in a while, so it's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I guess that's the other thing is when you are designing for a client, [00:10:00] you're adding in those wants that they've got the non-negotiables and then they start adding in the other bits and pieces and you've started with a project budget of X, and now you're at Y how do you sort of guide them through that and manage that expectation? So
Speaker 2: Obviously, as I said, we start out with a square meter, which gives you the outline of the building. And then we give them a heads up. So if they're adding another bathroom, we let them know that's between 25 to 30 K. And then if you are adding more square meters on the house, we say, this is where you're adding more costs. So [00:10:30] we try to inform 'em every time there's a change, what that's doing to their budget, not to scare them, but just to inform, because that's the way all designers should be doing it,
Speaker 3: Just when we've priced stuff for other designers or architects, we've seen that happen where we've started at a budget. And then as they go through the design and start fleshing everything out, they've added square meter images, or yes, where areas or outdoor areas and the, I hasn't kept them abreast of how that's impacting [00:11:00] their budget. And then when we go to quote the final job, it's a real shock for everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So there's normally a few stages when you're designing, you've got your concept where you are sort of doing some concept plans, which is just the dream. And like they're sort of not very detailed plans in terms of what's on them, but you'll have a layout and some general finishes on it, of the house, normally elevations aren't included in that and you'll get a few different concepts. And then it's given to the client, we normally do one that the client's given us [00:11:30] and then a few different options that are variations of that. And then some of them, we just give one that we believe is a total different layout, just a suss out to see if what they do like and what they don't like or something they haven't even thought about. And then from there, the next stage after concept is you start going tendering packages.
Speaker 2: Now we normally from the building side, like to be engaged at the concept stage. So once you've actually decided on that sort of overall concept layout, we can tell you straight away where your budget's sitting at based on [00:12:00] a square meter, which helps a lot because that'll control the job before you start getting too excited and move to the detailing stage, where you start selecting your finishes and the more intricate detail on the finishes and the bath fixes. Yeah. All the tiles and all the aesthetic pleasing items. So starting at that concept stage, getting a square meter rate is ideal. So then we get onto sort of the functionality of the project as well. So looking at your house and if it's functional or not, letting in natural [00:12:30] light, natural air flows a big one, especially here in Queensland, trying to reduce the electricity bill by using cross breezing and using a lot of natural light. Like you don't wanna have to go into a room and every time you go in there, you have to turn the light on. Firstly, it won't meet energy efficiency, but also it's just not ideal. And especially designing to the orientation of your site as well as another big thing that people don't think about. So really getting that function going of your house and trying to get it tied in together.
Speaker 3: And the finishes
Speaker 2: Finishes is normally down [00:13:00] the track. Once you've got past your concept and then your tender stage, you start to look at those sort of finishes and we like to get a mood board together and sort of a color palette. So we sort of know what's going on,
Speaker 3: Depends on who you've engaged and how you've engaged them too. Like you, yes, we'll offer that service to do everything. And as you said, put together mood boards and tile selections, timber floors, and try and put something together for you that meets the brief. But depending on the package that you've gone for with your designer or architect or whatnot, they may [00:13:30] or may not offer that. So that may be something that you'll have to sort of go through your self and put together.
Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of companies, design companies, don't actually give you some finishes. I know a lot of building designers. Sometimes they just do the layout and they'll just note that there's hardwood floors, but they won't select the hardwood floor. That's normally up to the client. It just depends on what's part of your package, I guess. And then that's sort of left up to the client or the builder go through with them. And that can play a big part in terms of pricing as well, if that hasn't been selected [00:14:00] or taken into account by the designer.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think lack of information on some sets of drawings is where people really come unstuck and end up having fights with their builders and contractors because they may have thought that things were included like real hardwood floors to finished on site after. Whereas the builder has perhaps allowed a cheaper sort of prefinished type of floor. If those bits of information aren't really sort of documented well and nutted out.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I'm starting to see, I think [00:14:30] over time, like being in the industry for a while, we're starting to see plans actually diminished in terms of core, a lot of changes required. A lot more input is needed from the construction team, which is not great because it's setting you up for failure.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of that comes from people rushing this stage as well.
Speaker 2: Yes. So this is the, probably one of the biggest stages in terms of setting it up correctly. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Cause everyone's excited to get the design done so they can get on site and start turning dirt. Whereas if you get this [00:15:00] stage, right, the build should be a breeze.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So a lot of design companies won't elevate bathrooms or cabinetry or anything like that, leave it up to the builder to go through or they leave it up to the client to go through. I think that's pretty dangerous in terms of pricing for one, but also getting to the next stage where you get to construction. It's dangerous trying to make decisions on the fly design, I think should be taking the longest process because you're actually thinking about it and going through it, it's cheaper and quicker to change something [00:15:30] on a set of documents and it is on
Speaker 3: Site. Yeah. And especially in the market at the moment where we're having to order materials so far ahead to make sure they turn up on site when they're needed. If you're making changes on the fly throughout the job, it's really difficult for everyone involved and can also really push out a, your budget, but be your timeline.
Speaker 2: Oh, a hundred percent, which is recently finished a job. And there was just over 200 changes to the documentation, which slowed everything down. It wasn't the greatest process [00:16:00] in terms of trying to get everything to work together. It's quite a bit of detail on the project, but changing drawings like that consistently with that many changes means that the design phase wasn't done correctly, the drawings are not up to scratch. Um,
Speaker 3: Yeah, that just says to me that that particular job wasn't ready to be built, they needed to spend probably another month or two with the client, fleshing everything out and getting their documentation up to a standard that it should have been at. Correct.
Speaker 2: So yeah. Going through those documents and making sure [00:16:30] you actually understand what's drawn, we do this every day. So we see drawings every day. I can look at a set of plans and basically picture it what it's gonna look like finished. But if you are building for the first time we're renovating, then you've got zero idea how to read a set of drawings. So sitting down and going through those drawings and documentation with your designer or architect is definitely crucial in terms of saving a lot of headaches, knowing every product that's going into your house, seeing it, touching it, basically getting a feel for the house. You should really understand [00:17:00] everything about it. By the time you go to turn dirt, you know, a house inside out.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's no such thing as a stupid question. No, I think a lot of people are worried about asking a question because they might look silly, but there's no such thing as a, a silly question on a building site.
Speaker 2: And the thing is we do this for a living. Like if you go to any other industry and when we sat in their industry, there's probably a lot of things where you wouldn't have a clue
Speaker 3: About, well, maybe you
Speaker 2: Nice, but yeah. Getting to understand your plans. I thinks also people don't do it. I think they rush over it. They [00:17:30] cruise through the design phase. They see all the pretty plans, but then they just rush to get to construction.
Speaker 3: Software's getting a lot better as well in terms of 3d rendering.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when you engage your draft, your building designer or architect, that's a big question. Like what software do they use in terms of, can you do a fly through, can you see what it looks like finished? Cause without those sort of things, they come with all the basic design packages now, like I don't think anybody's not using any 3d design software anymore. Like if they are then they're probably outdated.
Speaker 3: [00:18:00] If you can't see and visualize plans, which most people can't, you're doing yourself a real disservice. If whoever you do design with can't offer you that service because it's a great tool to be able to sort of get into the house and see what it will feel like and what the rooms are like and the finishes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I know like there's all headsets getting around now and we're looking into those as well where
Speaker 3: We're getting those for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. We can do VR and go through it, but it also helps for us, like for you guys on site as well that these things are thought about, [00:18:30] we like to detail every little thing. So we're talking tile, Heights, bathroom, fixing Heights, just everything. So once it gets to site, the guys are just onto it. The plumbers know where to rough in the chippys know where to put all the nogging so you can touch things. It speeds up the process and it saves the client money in the end.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Do you, it stops a lot of mistakes that can be avoided
Speaker 2: Yeah. With technology the way it is. It should be a streamlined process that these things are designed and then it's just get built on site. [00:19:00] The next thing is, how is your designer managing your expectations? Are they a yes man or a yes person where you go them with an idea and they're like, yeah, great. Let's do it. And they just design it. The thing is everything has cost implications. So you need to get feedback each time you make a change, you should be asking, okay, what's this doing to the budget and where are we sitting?
Speaker 3: Yeah. A hundred percent. And if they can't answer those questions, then you might be in for a rude shop when you do start to get your [00:19:30] building core loads back in.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's why you should have your builder with you having a look at the plans as well. So I don't blame draftees or building designers or architects for not knowing costing because that's not their job. They're creative people. They're there to design a house. Yes. They should have some sort of idea how much things cost, but they're not in a day to day. So that's why it's a collaborative approach where it's just to about communication, getting the right team together and getting them to sit down and go, yep. This costs, this, this costs, this we've got architects that we work with that [00:20:00] call us at the start of a job and just say, Hey, I've got a client. That's just come to me. This is what they wanna do. Is it feasible? And we'll say yes or no. And then they go from there and then we'll give them some sort of square meterage or a rough estimate, or even give them a previous job that we've looked at and just say, Hey, this is where it's gonna cost the market shifted. So allow this. It's just about getting that right team together.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And it is super difficult at the moment, even for us with the way that the market is just keeping up with all that costing. Like it is a full time job being on top of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. [00:20:30] Like jobs that we looked at six months ago are up from that point. So that's why it's really important that you get everybody together and go from there and also make sure that you've got a designer or an architect that knows what's going on in the industry and how much things cost and is happy to work alongside a builder on a few people use QSS for this stuff, but that's probably better on commercial. I don't know if they can do residential because they're in the day to day dealings.
Speaker 3: We've sort of looked at it a few times and I think it's good for if you wanna do a material takeoff [00:21:00] and check on those sort of prices. But I think they're even having a struggle, keeping it up in today's market. But when we have used them in the past, I've found the material lists to be pretty good, but they always seem to be really off on the labor costs yeah. Of jobs. Cause I think usually they're working off square meterage or linear meterage rates for installation. So on a new house that can work, not a problem if it's not a fully architecturally designed house, if it's quite sort of standard. But when you go into renovation stuff [00:21:30] and full custom builds again, it's hard for them to understand the labor costs associated with some of that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, especially here in Queensland where we're based in Brisbane, there's a lot of houses where you can't demolish, so there's always a renovation. So you can't do those new build costs anymore. So making sure that they're aware of the costs that are involved. So QS is probably not too great on a renovation, but in terms of your design, really just communication with your designer and architect, like saying, is this reality or is this a dream [00:22:00] what I'm wanting and can it be achievable? I think it's just having great communication with your architect or designer and asking 'em some serious questions about budget because that's obviously what drives their job.
Speaker 3: Yeah. A hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And then probably the last question is, is your architect or designer designing for you or for them? Yeah. There's a few out there that you can see, they design a certain style and that's probably what attracts a lot of people to them. I've heard some pretty bad horror stories where they've just totally ignored what the client wanted to and just design what they wanted. [00:22:30] Because obviously at the end of the day, they're trying to get their portfolio up and get their name out there. So just being really firm and making sure that you are really happy with the design. Sometimes I understand that you might push a design forward and the client's a bit hesitant. That's why you go through the plans and you go through your 3d so they can see it. They can visualize it then and they can make a decision from there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I don't think it's a bad idea to ask whoever you're gonna work with perhaps for some references of clients I've worked with before for jobs that have made it to [00:23:00] construction and been finished. Yeah.
Speaker 2: A hundred percent.
Speaker 3: Like we have to do that as builders, clients ask to speak to people that we've built houses for. So I don't think it should be any different for architects designers ask them, can I speak to one of your clients or a few that you've finished builds with? So you can actually find out what the process was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well they're setting you up for your project. So you wanna make sure you're with the right team, having the wrong architect or building designer can be detrimental. Like I've heard of people chopping and changing halfway through their process. So that's not a nine [00:23:30] deal way to start your build, especially at the beginning. So getting those references is pretty important as well.
Speaker 3: That's about it for design phase,
Speaker 2: As we're saying designs, getting it right at this beginning, spend some time on it. It's really important. They're the blueprint of your house. Building companies are not designing in terms of like, if you go to a everyday builder, they're not the ones designing your house, they're just pricing what's on the plans. So when they come in over the budget, it's not the builder's fault. It is the designer. [00:24:00] You need to make sure that that designer or architect knows what they're doing, what the market's doing and how much things cost. And if they don't get a builder involved, there's nothing wrong. Or there shouldn't be any egos in it because it's your house. Everyone should be working together, working as a team and using their skills in the best way possible for the client.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Or the other option is to design with the builder.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Come to us. We've got everything in house,
Speaker 3: Reach out to Bluebird.
Speaker 2: That's the way that's basically why we started ours. And I know [00:24:30] a lot of other builders are doing it as well. We're seeing the disconnect between the design phase and the building phase. That's why we started what we did just to stop this process and the heartbreak and actually design a great house, but also document it correctly so that the builder has at all the information they've got on it, but also design that to the budget because we don't wanna waste your time and we don't wanna waste our time. You wanna start off on the right foot. So you want to get the right team together and get your design phase, correct. And spend some time on
Speaker 3: It. That's [00:25:00] it for this episode, we'll catch everyone next time for stage three, which is where we start to talk of the, about costing and contracts.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great. Thanks for coming.
Speaker 3: Thanks for coming.