Ep 07 - James Foley from Folar Architects

In today’s episode we have our first guest, James Foley from FOLAR Studio – Architecture & Interiors www.folar.com.au

Folar Studio is a Brisbane Architecture + Interiors firm focused on high-end single & multi-residential, retail, & commercial projects.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker 1: Welcome to building with Bloomberg, that design and renovation podcast brought to you by Christian Case. And Jeremy Thomas said, directors of blue bird design and build highlighting the do's and don'ts of renovating or building your dream home. This podcast will give you the insight has gone to the home building journey, as well as interviewing other industry specialists, Christian and Jeremy bring the knowledge and expertise to the table for you.

The people. Now let's get into this episode. And if you enjoy, please like share and 

[00:00:32] Speaker 2: subscribe. Welcome back to building the blue bird episode seven today, we've got a first guest. We bashed architects. I feel a little too hard for the last few sessions. So wanting to breathe. Yeah, we thought we'd bring one on when one we're working with.

And he's a local Brisbane lad. It's James faller from Fala studio, architecture and interiors 

[00:00:54] Speaker 3: in Paddington onions, 

[00:00:55] Speaker 1: hottest architect. Thanks guys. Great to be here. This isn't a roast. Is it like they have in America? 

[00:01:01] Speaker 3: Let's save that till the end. Thanks 

[00:01:03] Speaker 1: for coming. Yeah. Thanks 

[00:01:04] Speaker 2: for coming on as our first guest as well, and also a bit of short notice where.

It probably sounds a bit odd because we're in our office or what was our office, which was hit by the floods. So we're sort of in a ghetto setup with a picnic table and some random chairs until it gets all tabletop. Yeah. So the acoustics might be not as great as normal, but we'll get through it and crack on.

Yeah. The reason we've got you on, I think probably being a bit too harsh on architects and we really want to get their point of view because you guys are a big part of design. Big pot of construction. So I'm having, we're working with you obviously, and really walk your design and your process, and really welcoming to wards, bringing us on board early and trying to get costings.

Correct. And getting us involved in. So it's been a really great approach I feel, and I think the clients definitely feel that as well. Absolutely. So little bit about yourself. 

[00:01:53] Speaker 1: Yes. So. James Foley, a hail from Victoria, actually. Won't hold that 

[00:01:57] Speaker 3: against you. 

[00:01:59] Speaker 1: So IFL fan Collingwood. Oh, you've got all your teeth surprisingly.

Yeah. Was educated down there and studied, uh, deacon university at the Jalong waterfront campus. Andy. Yeah. Went through the five-year degree to obtain the bachelor of architecture and yeah. Worked in Melbourne for about 18 months and then had a job offer to come up to Brisbane and yeah. Was. That was with hassle.

Oh yeah. So quite a large firm doing really nice work Rezi stuff. I haven't seen that. No, like actually I'm quite large sort of hospital scale projects, galleries. I think they're doing one of the rail stations as part of the cross river rail in the science fair. So that sort of scale of projects, it's a big firm international firm as well.

So anyway, I said to my girlfriend now wife, at the time, what do you think about Brisbane? And she was keen for a change. And I think we were just keen to get out of Melbourne. Just for a couple of years and come up and try it. And yeah, just, we sort of based ourselves in Tenerife, just coincidentally, which was a great lifestyle area of Brisbane.

And we just loved it. Family came up to visit us a lot and we went back there and sort of made it all work. And yeah, 12 years later we're still here, so you're 

[00:03:09] Speaker 2: right. So you worked out. Hassles. And then what you say after that, 

[00:03:15] Speaker 1: I was actually working at a really good firm in Melbourne called Williamsburg.

And so as a firm about 40 people after uni and then went to hustle when I got to Brisbane. So yeah, I guess from an educational point of view at the deacon waterfront campus there it's, you know, just starting to be obtained. The bachelor was really interesting in terms of the, I guess, the quantum of things that you're exposed to at university.

So I think the main thing probably is. The design thinking and the environment that you're in, or you're at a, a campus with 500 other people studying. Architects construction managers and that sort of thing. So good experience down 

[00:03:50] Speaker 2: there. And then did you get into architecture out of everything? You're doing stuff at school or growing up doing?

[00:03:55] Speaker 1: It's a good question. I always loved woodwork at school and technology graphics and that sort of thing. And I remember chatting to. Would work teacher one day and he said, what do you wanna do when you're older? And, um, said, I'll think I want to be a builder. Right. And he sort of steer me away from it. He said,

[00:04:13] Speaker 2: he's missing a few fingers, 

[00:04:16] Speaker 1: but he said, you've got this creative side. Maybe you could look at graphics 

[00:04:20] Speaker 2: or, yeah. Right. So he recognized that in, you created from the 

[00:04:23] Speaker 1: get-go and that was around, you know, year 10 at school. Once I remember. So I sort of started to look at that and a little bit more in terms of graphics and thinking about my career, which is hard to do it when you're 15 or 16.

It's a bit ridiculous, really, but always wanted to do something really tangible with my career in terms of what I liked about art and crafts and design is that you create something that you can touch. I probably look what you guys do. 

[00:04:50] Speaker 3: Yeah. Same as asked and definitely our carpenters and a lot of the Sotheby's really, you can stand back at the end of the day and see what you've achieved and same for you guys.

Like once a project. So. Coming out of the ground and you see it finished or you're really proud 

[00:05:04] Speaker 1: moment. Yeah, it is. It is really rewarding. So I didn't really want to go into a career where, you know, I was dealing with numbers or an office sort of job, I guess. So 

[00:05:13] Speaker 3: it dumb as to make up the large part of what you do now.

Yeah. 

[00:05:17] Speaker 1: That's 

[00:05:17] Speaker 2: true as well. So then what made you go out on your own? I guess like working for other people. How long have you going to have, how long have you been out 

[00:05:24] Speaker 1: on your own and, yeah, sure. So worked in, I think three or four firms, maybe maybe five in around 15 years. So, you know, since graduated. So you've 

[00:05:36] Speaker 2: got to, yeah.

Good array. Projects and how different firms work 

[00:05:39] Speaker 1: and, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So kind of saw what to do and what not to do what I liked and what I didn't like about certain operations in firms. It always, you know, it was lucky enough to work with really good people and on really good projects. So I really valued that from my time at other companies, but yeah, just kind of always had this entrepreneurial drive probably for the last, well, to be honest, when I got to Brisbane, I was doing architectural competitions and had one public.

In a book overseas for, um, awesome future skyscraper. And it was kind of doing all this in my own time and always had this sort of thing in the back of my mind that I want to kind of run my own race and create my own company. One day. It's pretty difficult in architecture though, to do that at such an early age.

So, but, you know, work towards that. And it had some really good experience in other firms and as all different scales, as I mentioned, Yeah. In the midst of the COVID or the start of the COVID pandemic orange spine company, and just started with one project. So brave time to jump out. Yeah. Yeah, it was. So I guess if you're at home, 

[00:06:42] Speaker 2: That's perfect time.

Like you probably sitting there and your spare time. 

[00:06:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I guess I'm a bit of juice on that story is I was actually made redundant at my big, big firm I worked with, they cut about 30% of the staff and yeah, just, I didn't have a choice. I was pushed to perfect tacos. Yeah. I feel like like 

[00:07:00] Speaker 2: most business owners, there's no perfect time that everyone talks about and thinks about it until that happens.

Like I was the same, I got made redundant and that's the only reason I went out on my own. Like I was thinking about it for like 12 months. Yes. Yes. And that's the only way that happened. And speaking to other business owners, they're all the same one. Like there's no right time. You sorta get pushed into doing it.

So obviously same thing. So you started out in your own. Yeah. 

[00:07:21] Speaker 1: So just got that push that you needed. Yeah. So that was a bit of a shock, I guess it was that. Yes. That was 2020 when all their rights went down. Yeah. Difficult time personally, I guess, as well, just having, you know, a couple of kids and mortgage and freaking out, just all that sort of stuff.

So it was always something that I had planned to do, and I always kind of kicked the can down the road. I'll do it in six months. I'll do it in six months. Yeah. And in that particular year, I was like, I'm going to do it in October, you know? That's fine. It's going to happen, but it probably wouldn't have happened.

And, and when I look back now, I just, I'm so lucky to be where I am now and to have just all the great projects that we've got and the people that we've met and the experience that we've had so far, like, I, I do feel really fortunate. Yeah. And it was meant to be really. So do you think 

[00:08:05] Speaker 2: it's the path of like with architects and that I feel that you're either you go work for someone in terms of the commercial yeah.

Like out fit or you go out on your own really? That's normally how a lot of guys do like there's no, I might be, I might be wrong, but do a lot of architects not stay with the one from. 2030 years sort of thing. I always, yeah, 

[00:08:26] Speaker 1: that's, that's true. Like, it's pretty rare to see that people do move around a lot to get experienced at different, different sort of areas.

Scales. 

[00:08:34] Speaker 2: Yeah. So creative. So it's always, you've got to absorb all these different things, looking at it differently. 

[00:08:39] Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's, it is hard to find the right culture. I feel in architectural firms. I'm not sure why that is, but it's also really hard to get design experience, you know, like you always kind of had a bit of a design, AOS or sensibility about me.

I felt. I just, wasn't getting to do that in really any of the phones at all. So there's always the directors who have paid for their shares in the company, and they're kind of, uh, they want to design it. They want their name on it, on everything, everything. So, and that's fair enough. So, you know, the advantage of, of what I'm doing now is that my trademarks all over the project and I'm designed from the 

[00:09:15] Speaker 2: get-go, so, yeah.

Yeah. And like, we've, we've had quite a few of your projects across come in through the office and we've blocked all of them. I think there's one that we haven't, which is quite rare. In terms of design and especially homes and yeah, cheers. A lot of guys or a lot of companies design things that we feel aren't functional or, 

[00:09:34] Speaker 3: yeah, I think, I feel like yours are like real nice and modern open, clean, but they also have a homely sort of field they've got like that real heart to the house.

I really liked that style personally. 

[00:09:45] Speaker 1: Yeah. 

[00:09:46] Speaker 2: And so it's definitely designed for practical use and families. Yes. And it sounds like, and it looks like from all the things that we get the feedback when we speak to clients as well, because you're actually designing for them. You're not designing for yourself.

Yes. Which is, I think can be a huge thing in 

[00:10:02] Speaker 1: industry. Yeah. And I think that's where. A lot of the way that I guess I approach the design is to personalize it for the clients. So we've got one with you guys. It's on my website on brown street, in Newfarm and very sort of Zen client. And, you know, it's, it was, that's just part of the idea for that project was just this Japanese garden and you know how we can.

Bring their personality into the project. So, yeah, so that informed a lot of the initial thinking on the design and it might sort of go elsewhere, but you know, you've got to start somewhere. So there's always from my approach, there's always something personal about the client that is intertwined into the project.

I think that's what makes it special for everyone. Yeah. Um, so how do 

[00:10:41] Speaker 3: you, like when a client comes to you initially and they're like, Hey. Property. We want to either renovate or build something new. How do you sort of take all that information of, I guess, their personality and just say one out of the, want to achieve out of the build or Renault and then put your, I guess your touch.

Walls trying to give them what they're wanting 

[00:11:05] Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, each project or each new potential project starts with, we will be approached through a referral or social media advertising, or, you know, that's usually the way that things come about and. Always happy to have a chat over the phone with the potential client about their project and what they're trying to do, their budget, et cetera, which the things that we ask upfront just over the phone, where we are at at the moment, we're specializing in that sort of one to $2.5 million plus residential range.

So they're the kinds of projects we've got on the books at the moment. So, you know, we'll, we'll talk about the budget. We'll then send them a bit of a fee guide, a bit of a range for our services and. Not only that also consultant services there'll be required to sort of get your project off the ground.

It's a tricky one. You don't want to overwhelm people with all those costs initially. So that can be a 

[00:11:53] Speaker 3: bit of a freak out when you start seeing all the different line items like exactly what it is on engineering soil test. I even got to construction and everything else, normally all cash they got to have upfront.

[00:12:05] Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. So. It's, but we kind of talk them through that too, so that they understand all that before we send that info. So I think that just helps people with their sort of forward planning and what I'm saying. Like they probably got a spreadsheet of all their costs and things. So they're happy with things will with the fee guide and things like that.

We'll go out to site, made them complimentary. I think some architects charge for that, but we happy to do that. We really want to meet the people because the part of our process is the client profile. That's the number one thing for me that I guess I've learned in the last couple of years since starting the company, all the products on my website had great clients.

That's the number one thing for me. And that's really hard to judge at the start, but I think I'm getting a good sort of feel for that. So, you know, if we're they like us and we like them, we'll go away and put like a proper fee proposal together. Once that's accepted, you know, we can arrange a measure. On site, where we go and measure the it's usually an existing Queenslander like that.

There's not many blank sites around Brisbane. You, um, 

[00:13:04] Speaker 3: are you sort of, when you're meeting first up on that complimentary mate, is it sort of you interviewing them as much as it is them interviewing you? Because obviously it can be a long process, like the design by the time you get from day one to when the build starts.

So you're gonna have to spend a lot of time. With the clients. So it's sort of like two way street. You have to like each other and want to work 

[00:13:24] Speaker 1: together. Absolutely. Yes. 

[00:13:26] Speaker 2: And you've got to trust each other as well. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're saying, finding those great clients that think it's a mutual respect.

Yeah. And I think you've had that so far with the clients we've met. 

[00:13:37] Speaker 1: We'll try and simplify the process of designing and, and building as much as we can because you know, it's stressful for the clients. It's a lot of money they're putting up for a build, you know, a couple of million bucks potentially, hopefully.

So five, five mil. And that's why we've kind of got you guys in on few projects already it's during that concept phase. So I guess just to backtrack Jeremy, on your question about the process there at the start, once we send that sort of brief, the fee proposal, that sign. We'll send a briefing, just a few 84 sheets that we've got just the standard thing in the office, send that out.

And they kind of fill in, you know, the it's got questions. Like which products do you like about, like, why are you coming to us? What's important to you or the functionality of what's in the house that you're seeking. So that's a really handy document for us. Yeah. We've got, I think there's around five projects at the moment that we've just, that's been so valuable in.

So Bible the Bible. Yeah. So we can always go back to it and just make sure we're covering all the client's concerns. Yeah. And then for our concept phase, that that's sort of the first phase that we deal with. We kind of spend a few months usually doing that. Cause there's a little bit of back and forth in terms of getting our ideas together, the architectural ideas for the project, designing the floor plan.

The three-day like, we, I guess we've invested a lot in technology side of things from, yeah. I was quite surprised, like 

[00:14:58] Speaker 3: epic 

[00:14:59] Speaker 1: and I 

[00:14:59] Speaker 2: think he was yeah. Using 3d software and lucky using obviously Revvit, which probably. Guys in the industry I tried to move to, but haven't made the jump to a lot of people still do sketches and stuff like that, which is great.

But, um, yeah, your documentation's pretty clear and yeah. Actually produce renders for clients to see what's going on. Yes. Which a lot of people don't, which is surprising, but it's great. You're ahead of the head of the game. And I think it also helps inform the clients exactly what's happening. Absolutely.

At the end of the day, the night raid plans, every dialogue we do and by you offering that service. Yeah, it helps. It helps the 

[00:15:33] Speaker 1: process. Yeah. And I think it makes it a bit more fun as well for the client, because they can see things in color and tray, which I know you kind of expect that anyway, look from.

I guess the model that we're, that we've had success with is just putting a lot of effort into the concept phase with all this 3d visualization, we've got the VR headsets, you know, that the client can sort of walk through their potential house. We want to get those. We'll get those. Got those. 

[00:15:58] Speaker 2: Is anyone tripped over or tried to run with them on him or anything?

Yeah. 

[00:16:01] Speaker 1: Well, a few people don't like them. You get rid of early guys that you remain seated when you, 

[00:16:06] Speaker 2: right. Oh yeah. That's probably 

[00:16:07] Speaker 1: a good. They're actually pretty affordable in terms of pillows. I think they 500 bucks or something, so, 

[00:16:12] Speaker 2: yeah, but just trying to communicate exactly what's happening in the house, in a house.

That's probably the greatest thing to do, I guess, apart from actually being on a walk through it. Yeah. 

[00:16:21] Speaker 1: That's it. And I think in terms of what an architect does, that's the level of service that I think should be provided that client's paying you for something. Show them exactly what they're getting the copy, this gray area of plans, which are hard to understand.

And I think it's just a good way of getting you guys, the client and us around the table and saying, this is a design and we all know what it is like. There's 

[00:16:40] Speaker 3: no, we appreciate it too. Cause when we're like pricing a job or building it, it's it gives you. Intent of what you're wanting to achieve. Like, it's like, this is what that room looks like in three day and just makes it really easy to just construct that the way that it intended as 

[00:16:56] Speaker 1: well.

Right. Yeah. Especially at 

[00:16:57] Speaker 2: concept stage, if you haven't gone into detailing too much and yeah. Obviously you get pricing when you're at concept stage. Yeah. Having that understanding of finishes, colors, textures, anything like that. Take into account is crate, which is another thing that you've taken on board really well, compared to a lot of other architects, like you'll give us a call and be like, Hey, what are you.

In terms of square meters, should I allow for a finish of a job like this? And we'll go back through our daughter and give you some feedback, which I think has really helping the process in terms of, and you're not bringing houses to us that are like way out of their range, um, which is really refreshing.

[00:17:34] Speaker 1: Try and keep it. 

[00:17:36] Speaker 3: Yeah, we haven't had any huge cost blowouts, which has been nice, which we experienced with other. 

[00:17:43] Speaker 2: But yeah, no, it's definitely, you've taken it on board, which is like, I think the way of the future, and at least it shows that you're actually thinking ahead, or you're looking at long-term as a business.

Like you don't want to be known as that architect that just does concepts and the projects never go ahead. Like you're actually designing with the intent of the job going ahead. Yeah. Which is 

[00:18:02] Speaker 1: quite refreshing flight. Where we are at the moment. I think we've got around eight projects on site this year that are starting, which has been the result because it takes a long time for something to get built.

As you guys know, there's the design process, which can take, you know, nine to 12 months potentially. It's almost 

[00:18:19] Speaker 3: like the building. The quicker 

[00:18:21] Speaker 1: part. Yeah. And that's been demonstrated on a few, yeah. A few recent jobs. So where the build feels like it's going to go really quickly and yeah. Nine months and it's done.

So, 

[00:18:30] Speaker 2: yeah, that's because you've done all this stuff upfront correctly, so you've documented everything correctly. You've gone through everything with the client and the builder, and that's what my. Final construction process, the easy part yet. So you're setting yourself up for success 

[00:18:42] Speaker 1: from the beginning.

Yeah. My past experience I've seen at other firms, you know, they'll go out to tender to three builders or four builders, and it's just a minefield because then the price will come back half a million over budget and the architect has to redesign re document things. And so trying to raise that process, and that's why we've worked with you guys on, you know, at the end of that concept phase, once we spent two or three months thinking it through.

So to have an upfront conversation about logic with the builder, but then we can go away, do our thing, work with the client, get them the design that they're happy with. And then we can kind of get a linear sort of costs document that you guys kind of do. Have you had 

[00:19:21] Speaker 3: trouble convincing your clients to do that process?

To work with one builder through from day one through to construction because you know, the old, I guess the old school idea is get the plans done, go out and get three, four, whatever builders to quote it. Yeah. Yeah. Whoever's the cheapest. Price, which is fraught with danger, but I guess for you to, and we're all about this as well, this is the way we like to work because it's, it makes sure everything's done properly and you get to the end.

And everyone's had a, had a good time instead of fighting over, you know, adults and what's included. And what's not because some builders have included some things and other builders haven't. So has it been a hard process for you to try and convince clients just to work with one builder instead of getting a few quotes?

[00:20:05] Speaker 1: It's actually surprisingly, it's been pretty wildly. So I think the clients are coming to us because they like our design style. They like, and they trust us. Yeah. And then, so if we say, you know, here's a couple of builders that we like, let's have a meeting with them and just see what you think and which way you want to go.

And. People are sort of have this thing in grind with them. Like, you know, if you're getting your plumbing fixed at home, you're getting three quotes and, you know, you might go with the cheapest or the person you like or that sort of thing. So it is a little bit different to that. It's sticking with one and kind of trusting that builder.

But I think a design and construction process is all about, as he mentioned, Christian is trust, you know, And it seems to have been pretty well accepted. There's one or two that say, I'll look up a block to go and just get a cost checked. 

[00:20:51] Speaker 3: Yeah. Just to make sure it's sort of within the realms. 

[00:20:53] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:54] Speaker 2: Which is understandable if you're spending that amount of money, you want to make sure that yes. Somebody else's at least close to it. Yeah. And then yeah, if you're feeling comfortable and developed a relationship with that builder, normally progress, we've found that. Even just quoting like any job that normally there's at least one on the builder involved, 

[00:21:12] Speaker 3: right?

Yeah. W not really playing the game anymore of tendering where a client's getting three or four quotes. Cause we know they're not that invested in the process. They're just chasing. Oh, the cheapest quote, most likely. And with that comes a lack of quality and probably along the build and things like that.

So we really like one or two quotes is fine. We expect to be priced against someone else to make sure we're in the, in the general vicinity. But we really value, as you were saying before, like when you're interviewing a client, it's, it's a two-way street and we want someone, a client that we can work with as well, that sort of trust us.

And we trust them and to really have a nice process. Yeah, actually, everyone's talking at the end of the build and yes. Create something that they're going to be really proud of. Yeah. 

[00:21:55] Speaker 1: And I'll have a beer together or yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. It is widely accepted, so 

[00:22:00] Speaker 2: yeah, I think it's also becoming more well.

In terms of, oh, more architects are doing it that way. Yeah. And same with builders. I think that whole, what you said, Jeremy, about the pricing it and the old school way of just everyone pricing it and they choose the cheapest, I think is sort of thrown out the window in the, um, the sort of jobs that we work on because they're going to you for that level of design.

They want to do some builder. And normally with it comes with a decent builder. They're quite organized and. They are on top of them, their game and their business. And they're trying to work with you to create success. 

[00:22:33] Speaker 1: Maybe there's a bit of a movement there in the industry because the last two or three jobs that we've been engaged on, they've only come to us as the potential architects.

Whereas there were a few last year they were talking to like five architects. Yeah. It just feels like a waste of time if you're after the lowest fee, which is odd 

[00:22:50] Speaker 2: because you've all, everyone's got their. When I was saying most architects have got their own style. Yeah. Or maybe not Starbucks sort of finishes they work with.

And so going around to five different ones, it's just like, they're just going for 

[00:23:05] Speaker 1: whatever. Really? Yeah. So it's, I'm 

[00:23:08] Speaker 2: not investing in you, they're just investing in someone just to create a set of plans, I guess. 

[00:23:12] Speaker 1: Yeah. And understand there's a budget for things like, you know, for upfront costs. So 

[00:23:18] Speaker 3: brings me to my next point budgets.

So yeah, I was just going to ask you when the clients come to you initially, and you've done that fee proposal and met with them, understand what it is they want, do you press them for a budget and then, you know, once you've got their budget, how do you sort of work that into your proposal? Like your scheme and then.

Uh, yes, as you're going through documentation, we've always found with ourselves designing and other architects that as clients are going through the process, they're like, oh, we might put another bathroom there or let's make these rooms and other two square meters H and all these things then have a flow onto the overall project budget.

So, yeah, it might've started with an $800,000 budget. And you had sort of worked your numbers on that. And then they've added all these things. How do you sort of manage that and keep them informed? Another bathroom that's 30 K or pools 80 or whatever, to make sure that they're sort of kept abreast of that.

Is that something you sort of try to manage as you're going through? Yeah, 

[00:24:15] Speaker 1: absolutely. It's a good question. We try and flesh that stuff out in that briefing document that we get at the start. Yeah. Generally speaking clients have stuck to the number of bedrooms, number of bathrooms. So there's a wine cellar, that sort of thing in the house.

And, and we do try and just lock the plans at the end of that concept phase. And then. Really like getting the council application or the council approval in the sort of that second phase comes after that. And yeah, if there are changes, post that with, it's just something that it's just a conversation we'll have and say, well, this, this is going to change things a little bit from your budget point of view, we actually produce sort of area plans in that concept phase and say, look, we're working with.

Three grand, a square meter or six grand, a square meter, depending on the budget. And we just try and keep a lid on the areas. We try and do those sums early for them just to help everyone. Yeah. 

[00:25:03] Speaker 2: Yeah. Like the plans we saw the other day, you actually put the figure on the drawing, so of where you dangerous with.

No, but it's like, they can actually. Oh, I didn't know about that sort of thing. It's like, well, it's actually right on the drawings and the documentation and those square meters, basically what you've got off when you've called us. And 

[00:25:20] Speaker 1: yeah, I think one thing to be aware of with other practices maybe is that they're using one type of software to do all the 3d modeling and, and get the images and then another software to dock.

Yeah. To produce the documentation, which you guys will build and price off. So there can be a little bit of inconsistency there. So what we've tried to do is just eliminate that process as well. And just all the three days, all the documentation is done in the one piece of software. Yep. Consistency like.

Once to add some lots in the ceiling plan or whatever it is. Add some cabinetry it's all picked up in the three days and it's also picked up in the plans. Yeah, I 

[00:25:58] Speaker 2: won't, I won't tell people what the software is. I know what it is for. That's actually a good point. That what we're saying you renders is actually coming from your software, which as you said, like some guys I know.

Use AutoCAD for something and then another software just for renders to give to the client, which can totally not match at all. So, yeah. 

[00:26:16] Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's something that's like, how would you know that if you're a client coming in growing, it's just, we're trying to explain our value when we have that initial meeting or the first couple of meetings that that's how we operate.

Yeah. And, you know, that's, I think people have really appreciated that. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:32] Speaker 2: Well, yeah, definitely. I can't believe people actually throw that Brian of it, like, to me, that's like, why would you do that? Like that's actually misleading. 

[00:26:41] Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, each, each firm that I've previously worked at in the last 

[00:26:45] Speaker 2: name and shame, now 

[00:26:48] Speaker 1: I've done that and done it that other way.

And that just comes down to people's ability and operating the software. Yeah. Yeah. It's a 

[00:26:54] Speaker 2: big jump to implement those systems. And the thing is if you've gone from one thing or one working one way to then totally trying to upgrade and operate another way while also trying to run a business. Yes, it can be.

It's something they need to do, I guess, in terms of creating something that's true and accurate. Yeah. While also being creative at the same time and yeah, a hundred percent trying 

[00:27:15] Speaker 1: to operate the business, like in our studio, you know, we've got a good young team and everyone's sort of technology is it's really top-notch.

So I've tried. I find those people they're out there and I've been able to train them in certain things. So I'm using a lot of video software now as well, animating sort of, sort of moving away from still images and looking at animating and looking at the light and shadows and things and showing that as just a really evoke the feeling of, of the houses that we're doing.

And we're showing clients. And align your projects. We're showing them that in that concept phase. Yeah, because 

[00:27:50] Speaker 2: you can show like sun paths and all those sorts of things at different times of the year, which I think people forget about, I guess when they design, not everybody does, but some firms, I know large windows on Western sides of the house and I'm like, yeah, this place is going to get roasted in summer, especially in Queensland.

Like absolutely. 

[00:28:09] Speaker 1: And it just 30 degrees 

[00:28:11] Speaker 2: half of the 

[00:28:11] Speaker 1: year. And there's also, you know, the sustainability element to that. They're going to have to check the air con off. However many years they're in the house. So, so you say 

[00:28:20] Speaker 2: that into consideration when designing and using that software. 

[00:28:23] Speaker 1: That's right.

That's right. That's really helped accelerate a lot of our designs and people are sort of really happy with the finished product. 

[00:28:31] Speaker 3: Yeah. So just, I guess the services that you guys offer in your studio, you've got interiors and then a full design. So. Yes. And how have you got in your studio working with you?

Small 

[00:28:43] Speaker 1: team of three at the moment. So we've also got a business advisor, so I guess you can count him as well as the numbers. That's an 

[00:28:51] Speaker 2: efficient way to get work. I guess like the thing is if you're using technology to your advantage and streamlining that process and getting your, um, yeah, like your on-ramping surveys and customer documentation.

Yeah. You can, you don't need huge firms and I guess that makes you more agile that 

[00:29:10] Speaker 1: a company. Yeah. So I think we'll look in terms of our business. We're aiming to sort of, we might grow to four or five, you know, I think you can still be a really profitable business at that scale. So yeah, I've got an advisor that I catch up with fortnightly and we look at the numbers.

It's kind of like a board meeting really. And, you know, we sort of plan strategically what the projects we're accepting, where we're heading. You know, in the next 12 to 24 months. So yeah, in terms of the studio, it's, we're doing all the interior design ourselves, which is kind of in a really strong point, all our designs, I think so on our website, you'll see all the interior renders and materiality and that sort of stuff.

A lot of firms outsource that. So we try and do that. In-house, we've been talking to a couple of interior designers that we might put one of those. In the future, but for now it's working really well with the way we're doing things. Yeah. 

[00:29:58] Speaker 2: Well, you're definitely like, I think at the end of the day, the interiors make a huge difference with the house.

Like yeah. Obviously functionality. Yeah. Taking into consideration airflow, um, everything 

[00:30:09] Speaker 1: like that. 

[00:30:10] Speaker 3: Yeah. Um, I think doing it the way you're doing it too. It's not like you've designed the house and then the client goes somewhere else and the interior designer goes, oh, this will work in this space overall thought about that as you're going through.

And it's, it's done in a, like a full, comprehensive, or you've sort of thought about from the start. It's not like you just go and slap interiors on at the end, which I think it's good. It all sort of ends up working together a lot. Yeah. 

[00:30:35] Speaker 1: Yeah, 

[00:30:36] Speaker 2: definitely. But also at the beginning, you're not using interiors because when we try to cut costs, interiors is the first thing that just gets sacrificed, which I think is the wrong way about it, because you don't have to stare at it, like at the end of the day.

Product that is like the easiest and cheapest range, which you don't want. You want a decent interior and with all your different textures and all those sort of elements, which is good that you guys actually do it all at once. And actually think about it from beginning to end. 

[00:31:02] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess from our architectural design point of view, we're very interested in styling and furniture.

Uh, like hot work sculpture with and how you can just kind of start a design using those things. So some of our inspirations are related to those interior elements. It also, you know, the landscape. So that's a big part of, you know, on brown street and on the design collection that we've done with you guys, that aspect of the landscape is a big thing for us.

And I know it's a bit of a cliche now at the moment with design, but I think. You know, we're engaging the landscape article, the clients, engaging the landscape architects early in our projects, sort of recommending that to the client and. West or coming up with the ideas and then feeding that through with the landscape architects.

So I think it's just part of that collaborative process that we're trying to do with all consultants. So 

[00:31:51] Speaker 2: yeah, well, they, it should like in Queensland, obviously we spent a lot of our time outside and that indoor outdoor flow is a huge part because I'd guess you probably deal with this. Like if you're dealing with clients with that sort of budget than normally their families.

So having that indoor outdoor flows. Uh, main key, absolutely. With kids playing and then also using different spices and then having a landscape architect involved that can actually sort of tie it all together, instead of everyone just working against each other and being real clunky, you're actually getting everyone in a round table setting and just saying, let's get this all together for the client, which benefits the client at the end of the day as well.

So they're 

[00:32:27] Speaker 1: happy. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's the subtropical design ideas that we have, you know, just building in the cross ventilation into the home. No just at night, you can kind of turn the air-con off and open things up. Like, one of the things that attracted me to Queensland as an architect was the work of Donovan hill and some of the architects up here that I was seeing their work and I was seeing these beautiful homes and the landscape that was sort of built around them and the natural team there's.

And so that's sort of, sort of infiltrated through our work. 

[00:32:58] Speaker 2: Yeah. So touching on that, do you have a certain style. But you normally go with the terms of your products or your, you finish of your architecture and the 

[00:33:06] Speaker 1: design? Yeah, I mean, I think you'll see that our designs are fairly contemporary. We do have an appreciation for that sort of Queensland character homes.

So any Hamptons coming off, a

flux, the Hamptons set up, they're building one at the moment. 

[00:33:23] Speaker 2: It's pretty prevalent 

[00:33:25] Speaker 1: here. Prolific, isn't it? 

[00:33:27] Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm not sure if it's going as crazy in the other states or has, but yeah. Brisbane loves the Hamptons home at 

[00:33:33] Speaker 1: every second 

[00:33:34] Speaker 2: house. It's funny. 

[00:33:36] Speaker 1: Completely off the 

[00:33:37] Speaker 3: opposite to your style. 

[00:33:38] Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

Just trying to give listeners, I guess the idea of yeah. Visual. Yeah. So no Hamptons 

[00:33:46] Speaker 1: in terms of the style, I think. Yeah. Obviously it's contemporary style sort of come to us saying. You're mid century modern approach, which hadn't really occurred to me too much before that few people were saying it. So that, I guess by that style, you know, we're talking about nice sort of BlackBuck timber to ceilings or the timber highlights.

We do a lot of James street in Brisbane is a great example of raw cool subtropical design in terms of the hardscape, the bricks. And they're really now that they have. And, you know, we try and use those sort of materials. So if you're the projects have that sort of burnished concrete floor, that's sort of nice and cool.

Yep. Come home to, and take your shoes off, you know, rather than the timber floors so much. And yeah, we use a bit of timber for window framing and 

[00:34:32] Speaker 3: bringing those timber touches and elements. 

[00:34:35] Speaker 1: Yeah. Throughout. Yeah, just, just in the, I guess, creating a bit of drama within the house is something that we have done on, on various projects.

So we're looking at like, With our software that I mentioned, and we'll look at obviously lining things up in the plan or plans and the software that we're using, which makes things easier for you guys. Thank you. And you know, also the spatial volumes. So, you know, we might look in brown straight. We've sort of got a high ceiling to the living area where we're trying to create a bit of drama there with some highlights, sort of windows and nice aspect of the courtyard.

So I guess a lot of the designs we've got a courtyard that sort of aspect to nature. And planting, which I 

[00:35:13] Speaker 2: notice, like you, there's a running theme of, you've got voids here and there as well. Like yeah. Creating drama, um, and varying sealing hearts, I guess, which yeah, definitely. Um, can make some areas feel cozy and then others airy and bright.

So I think that's 

[00:35:29] Speaker 1: a style of. The Brisbane or the Queensland architecture, you know, there's, we don't have daylight saving here and it's, you know, we've got this, we've got this beautiful climate. We should sort of celebrate that with a lot of natural light. Whereas, you know, a lot of the houses down south has sort of a little bit more closed in because they're sort of using thermal mass and trying to keep them warm on the pool, which is absolutely understandable.

So I think, you know, the opportunity here in Queensland is to celebrate that. Subtropical design and, and bring that sort of outside in, so to speak. So 

[00:35:58] Speaker 3: you're saying more people should move up from the side of the states. 

[00:36:01] Speaker 1: I think there is a bit of a 

[00:36:02] Speaker 3: migration immigration happening. 

[00:36:05] Speaker 2: Yeah. There was plenty of money coming from down south, which was great, I guess.

The local area. 

[00:36:10] Speaker 1: Yes. We've got a couple of clients from Canberra and we've got a project in Victoria as well. You know, they've approached us, they've got some investor product that they're, they're trying to add value to their homes. So yeah, most of, most of our projects are locally based. I guess for homeowners, April looking to renovate or, or do a new build.

Yeah. 

[00:36:29] Speaker 2: So in terms of your design process, what's the normal length of the wash Mabel expect when they start a design 

[00:36:35] Speaker 1: process? Yeah. So it sounds like a long time, but for one to $2 million, you probably. That's sort of nine to 12 months too. You've probably got a few months in concept design a couple of months in preparing the council application and then can take up to 10 weeks for council to approve your house design.

Yeah, they don't move and pretty far, but 

[00:36:55] Speaker 2: I moved verify 

[00:36:56] Speaker 1: and I think they're a bit swamped at the moment. So that's a bit of a 

[00:36:59] Speaker 2: pun on what's happened recently.

Touching on that. 

[00:37:04] Speaker 1: Yeah, we would have been on 

[00:37:06] Speaker 3: the water here. It heads might've been a month 

[00:37:08] Speaker 1: of waterline after I shoulders here in water in LVN, but yeah. So, and then once we get the approval, there's that documentation phase where we really try and nail down all the construction details and all the door schedules, window schedules, all the final finishes.

You guys have been through a couple of pricing runs where, um, Make sure. The projects on budget. Yeah. 

[00:37:29] Speaker 2: It's part of the tweaking of it. Yeah. To massage it 

[00:37:32] Speaker 1: into place. Or we also liked talking to you guys about the detail. Yeah. I talked to the builder about the certain details of the design as we're sort of finalizing those documents.

Um, it might sound 

[00:37:42] Speaker 2: like a long time, but it goes really quick. Like by the time you have a lot of back and forth and then clients sit on things and we were discussing the other day, it's great for a client actually wants to start. Design process to sit there and think about the design. Yes. Instead of just seeing it on paper, they actually think about and visualize it in terms of, oh yeah, this is going to go here in their yard.

What's the sunlight doing there. Where's the breeze come from and then they sorta notice, oh no, the sun sits this way or yeah, the neighbors are right there playing. Well, I right there and it's going to fury out and throughout the year, or just thinking about the, the layout of the land and also how that implements the design and the future of the home.

Definitely, definitely. So yeah, that, that long nine, 12 months gets that gets true that very quickly. Yeah, 

[00:38:27] Speaker 1: it does. It does. It's honestly, that's probably going at pace too. Like some farriers go quicker, some take longer, but it really, one of the first things we do is just give the client a bit of a timeline, like a bit of a spreadsheet to say, look, you know, this phase is going to take three months, you know, X, X amount of months.

And then you could start on site, you know, in, in 12 months time or, or whenever it is. It's a bit of a target and it, it is flexible, but it gives, you know, if the homeowner or the client is needing to move out to rent somewhere because their projects under construction just gives them a bit of certainty on when that date may be.

For sure. Yeah, just trying to be like, 

[00:39:05] Speaker 2: they're not rushing it, I think. And enjoying the journey and yeah. Getting involved as much as possible and trying to understand as much as possible. Yeah. And then also it's great for us in terms of like, not just us, but also any other builder that everything's detailed properly, which you do.

So yeah, having that, it's like there's less hiccups on the site and there's yeah. Cause obviously there's a lot going on, on. Yes, emotions do get high with clients in terms of, if they see their house get destroyed and then we build it back up, it can be quite emotional and also handing over a lot of money and they feel like, oh, we're just still at frames, but then everything's coming.

Yes, I had real quick, having that detail really helps. And using that software sort of sets you on your own. 

[00:39:48] Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. 

[00:39:50] Speaker 2: So not rushing that whole phase is like, or the biggest tip. I think people need to understand and take away is that don't rush these things properly the first time and set yourself up for success.

[00:40:02] Speaker 1: And I think the clients who are serious and they want to build their forever home or whatever it might be. They want to get the design, right. And that's sort of what we're giving them. So they're happy to go at, at the pace that's required. We don't have too many projects anymore. That one it's done yesterday.

They tend to be the smaller jobs. 

[00:40:21] Speaker 2: They just can't. And this, this market at the moment. Yeah. In terms of anybody getting back to you quickly, it's just not happening. Yes. Comes 

[00:40:27] Speaker 3: into your onboarding and process as well, like conditioning the client of what to expect. Yes. And if they're what you're saying earlier about, it's a two way street.

If they don't respect that process of you telling them how long this will take, then it's probably not a good fit. Yeah. That sort of rushed 

[00:40:43] Speaker 1: mentality. Yeah. It's just, you know, I think at the moment we. Five months wait lists, which we're really fortunate to have. So we can't actually do the projects straight away for some of those clients.

So it's, 

[00:40:54] Speaker 2: but that's Testament to you and your company that you've got a wait list. There's a reasonable yet. Put a wait list. 

[00:41:01] Speaker 1: I think one of the goals of the business, you know, it's not James Foley, architects, it's full our studio. It's about building a bit of a brand and it's not just about me, even though my name is intertwined in the title.

Yeah. Yeah. It's about building, you know, the style of architecture. Okay. Uh, culture as well, like, uh, an office culture that people want to be involved in and a culture for clients that want to be involved with us. So I think that's what makes me really proud of our work because we're, you know, that's shining through, through our 

[00:41:27] Speaker 2: projects and the clients we've met through, you have been pretty chill.

Yeah. I think they've been. I mean, you sort of attract that sort of person. And, um, I think they followed most of our directions, which is great, right? Yeah. 

[00:41:41] Speaker 3: Definitely been really good to where they were thought respected the process of, they take everything and our process as well, which has been awesome to actually have people that respect it and think that you are professional and you're giving them this advice and these processes for a reason, not, you're not just like making it up, but we've had people we've worked with before.

We do it this, no, they want to do it this way. And that way we're like, oh no, we do it this way for a reason. Cause we've worked out yes. How not to do things through trial and error. So 

[00:42:10] Speaker 1: yeah. Yeah. 

[00:42:11] Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, that's a great sort of thing to have that you attract those sort of people. Yeah. Processes in place like that on the customer sort of profile, I think is a great thing.

And that also there's something, it gives you a baseline to go back to when you design. Yes, absolutely. So like probably, uh, another thing we probably should have touched on earlier is people don't realize how much goes into architecture and design and compared to like a draft year, a building designer, because yeah, there's so many people like, oh, do I need an architect?

Do I need a building designer? What do you think is the, I think this sets you guys apart from other designers, draftees or building designers. Yeah. There 

[00:42:51] Speaker 1: was a study done. I think it was few years ago on architectural design home. Not architecturally designed homes and they tracked it over 20 years. And for every dollar invested in architectural fees, there was around 11, $12 that the client gained back in capital growth on, on the property.

Yeah. Whereas say the draftee designed ones where sort of half of that. So 

[00:43:14] Speaker 2: was that a study by an architect 

[00:43:18] Speaker 1: to conduct this study? That was just my assessment on it. No, no. It was done by hockey team who are, there are a mob in Melbourne who run professional development for architects and yeah, I have some really good research that I've done.

So, you know, obviously architects have been to university. Five or six years and been through this whole process of studying art and architecture history. They're aware of what's been done before, you know, globally with all the different styles of architecture that, and how it's evolved. You know, they've been through design creates, they've practiced presenting their designs to panels and all sorts of things.

Yeah. So to be 

[00:43:53] Speaker 2: actually an architect, you can't just say I'm an architect. You actually have to go, like you can study architecture that doesn't make you an 

[00:44:00] Speaker 1: architect, correct? Yeah. Yeah. So it's a bit of a processes and I can see what people are put off of becoming an architect, but after uni, then there's three exams that you have to do.

So you kind of have to go and work for a couple of years, get your hours or log logged in a log book with experience in different categories. Okay. And that has to be signed off by your boss at the time. And then you submit that to the board of architects, just to explain this process of how to become an architect, I guess.

Yeah. I definitely think it's valuable. Yeah. And then if the board are happy with your log book, You can sit a written exam. So part two, that's a notoriously difficult exam. It's multiple choice and it tries to trip you off wherever it can as 

[00:44:39] Speaker 2: a sound like architecture 

[00:44:42] Speaker 1: for all you walk out of there. And you just, you think, oh, surely I failed that, but I managed to get through first go.

[00:44:49] Speaker 2: So sometimes people don't make 

[00:44:50] Speaker 1: it through the first go. Yeah, I think it's a 45 or 50% pass rate. Written exam. So it is quite difficult. Like even if I had to sit there right now is some of the questions about, you know, things that happen on site and liability and things like that are quite tricky. Yeah.

There's a lot of study, you have to do to be able to pass that. So, yeah. And then once, once you get through that hurdle, whereas an interview, so sort of get roasted for an hour with three experienced architects who say, well, what would you do if this happened on site? Or what would you do if a client died?

You know, what would you fees and make sure I collect my fee. That's the process. If you can get over all of that stuff, which can take eight years plus even longer, then you can become an architect and register with the board in your state. So I'm registered with board of Arctics Queensland, Andy. So 

[00:45:42] Speaker 2: does that vary from state to state in terms of like, you couldn't just go down south or over to 

[00:45:47] Speaker 1: WWI or anyway?

Yeah, you have to register. It's the same process to become an architect in each state. Right. 

[00:45:53] Speaker 2: So you're not going back home to Victoria or anytime soon, just 

[00:45:58] Speaker 1: to register in another state, you just, you basically ring the board and say, look, I'm practicing in this state. Yep. Pay the registration fees for that year.

So yeah. Can you hold a 

[00:46:08] Speaker 2: license for multiple states? 

[00:46:10] Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. I've applied to get one in Victoria as well. Started designed down there, but yeah, then so we're also, um, our practice is registered with the Australian Institute of architects, so, okay. We're an a plus member and we have access to all their training.

All the, I guess the AIA has been owned. Just give a bit of a voice to architects. Like if there's a project in town that has public debate about it or something like that, or yeah. The AIA is there to sort of order a certain level of standard of service for the architects that can offer to clients. 

[00:46:41] Speaker 2: So, yeah.

So I guess that's. People would also check, like when you go building, checking that the person you'll, if someone says they're an architect, making sure their license is valid, I guess. And they're actually registered because there is people out there that say they're architects when they're, they're not, they're not actually registered.

[00:46:57] Speaker 1: So that's where the AIA have stepped in and taken those people to court. I can think of one that I've heard a couple of cases of that. So that's the journey, 

[00:47:07] Speaker 2: I guess they're trying to. It's like us with builder's license. Like you've got a certain, like we've got QBCC here in Queensland that, yeah. So you've got to adhere to your license for that and yeah.

Just make sure that everyone's registered and licensed to practice, I guess. 

[00:47:23] Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. And I think people want to know that, that they can go to trustworthy builder or architect. So it's good that they sort of boards or area in place. Really. Yeah. Any 

[00:47:34] Speaker 2: final tips or anything for anyone listening? What.

If they're looking at design, get an architect involved and you could advise the, to help them 

[00:47:43] Speaker 1: out, or, yeah. Sure. I think you need to really like the design style of the architects that you're going with. So if you are looking around, just make sure you like this style and make sure you like them have a good chat to them, made them in person and just understand a bit about their process.

Because as I think you guys mentioned earlier, all architects have a bit of a different process. Yeah. So it's just, just getting a good handle on that. And I guess you want to make sure you've got the confidence that that architect can bring your design to life and that you know, that your money that you're spending on, on the build is going to get your best bang for buck, because that's what an architect can deliver.

So, yeah, 

[00:48:22] Speaker 2: definitely. That's great. So where can people find you and get in contact with you? Our website 

[00:48:27] Speaker 1: is FOLA F O L a r.com. Your instance 

[00:48:31] Speaker 3: gone pretty 

[00:48:32] Speaker 1: good is, yeah, we've got a fuller underscore architecture and, uh, yeah, studios in Paddington, just in Brisbane at the antique center. So we've got a pretty cool space there that we love.

So 

[00:48:44] Speaker 2: a bit of foot traffic. That's awesome. Busy. And it's good coffee shop. 

[00:48:47] Speaker 1: Yeah. We had a client walk in the other day. Um, and she has an apartment in New York. Oh, so we're doing her house, but yeah, we might be looking at the interiors. For a New York project. So the site inspection yeah. That guy's built over there or, yeah.

[00:49:06] Speaker 2: Well, great. Well, thanks for your time. And coming in and giving us an insight into basically your business and how you operate. I look forward to working with you in the future. 

[00:49:15] Speaker 1: A bit more pleasure. Now, I think what you guys doing with the podcast is great and it's, um, really good awareness for a potential clients and homeowners out there.

So, yeah. Cheers, 

[00:49:23] Speaker 3: good stuff. Great. And we've just started a Facebook group called building with blue bird. We've got two members, Christian and myself. Um, so if anyone's got any questions, just jump on that. And, um, we can answer any questions you have about building. The podcast or whatever it might be. So, 

[00:49:40] Speaker 2: uh, thanks for joining us.

And if you like what you heard subscribe and we'll see you next week. 

[00:49:45] Speaker 1: Thanks. Great. Thanks guys.