That Tech Pod
Welcome to That Tech Pod, a podcast co-hosted by Laura Milstein, Gabi Schulte and Kevin Albert. Each Tuesday, That Tech Pod will feature in depth discussions about data privacy, cybersecurity, eDiscovery, and tech innovations with heavy hitters in the industry. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode! Visit thattechpod.com for more information.
That Tech Pod
Why the Future of Tech Depends on Better Leadership with Uma Subramanian
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This week Kevin and Laura sit down with Uma Subramanian, Founder and CEO of Limitless Leaders, Inc. Uma shares her journey from leading initiatives at Microsoft to building a global platform dedicated to helping tech professionals unlock their leadership potential.
We explore what “limitless” leadership really means, the behaviors that often hold people back, and why she set out to build a program that looks different from traditional leadership training. Uma opens up about pushback she’s faced, lessons learned from her own failures, and how vulnerability shapes stronger leaders. The conversation also tackles today’s pressing challenges: navigating layoffs and uncertainty, addressing burnout, and building trust in an era of AI, deepfakes, and misinformation. Uma offers a candid perspective on what AI can and can’t replace in leadership coaching and what kind of leaders the next generation of tech professionals will need. Finally, Uma shares why investing in better leadership now is critical for the future of tech.
Uma Subramanian is on a mission to inspire and empower tech professionals to achieve their full leadership potential. As the Founder and CEO of Limitless Leaders, Inc., she has launched a global initiative that provides transformative learning experiences to professionals in tech and related fields.
With over two decades of experience in the tech industry, Uma has worked for one of the world's leading tech companies, Microsoft, where she led high-performing initiatives that drove impactful outcomes. Drawing on her own experiences, she has devoted her life to empowering others to achieve their full potential in all aspects of life. Uma is a leader committed to adding value to the lives of others. She is an Executive Director, certified coach, trainer, and speaker with Maxwell Leadership. She is also a founding Maxwell Leadership Corporate Facilitator Program member and a certified DISC Behavioral Analysis Consultant.
Hello and welcome to that tech pod where we discuss all things e-discovery, cybersecurity, data privacy, and tech innovation. I'm Laura Milstein.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Kevin Albert.
SPEAKER_00And each week we bring on heavy hitters from the industry to help us break down these topics. And today, Kevin, who are we talking to?
SPEAKER_01Today we are talking to Uma Subramone. Uma is on a mission to inspire and empower tech professionals to achieve their full leadership potential. As the founder and CEO of Limitless Leaders Inc., she has launched a global initiative that provides transformative learning experiences to professionals in tech and related fields. With over two decades of experience in the tech industry, Uma has worked for one of the world's leading tech companies, Microsoft, where she led high-performing initiatives that drove impactful outcomes. Drawing on her own experiences, she has devoted her life to empowering others to achieve their full potential in all aspects of life. Uma is a leader committed to adding value to the lives of others. She is an executive director, certified coach, trainer, and speaker with Maxwell Leadership. She is also a founding Maxwell Leadership Corporate Facilitator, Program Member, and a certified DISC Behavioral Analysis Consultant. Uma, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03Thanks a ton. It's wonderful being here on this beautiful day.
SPEAKER_00It is a beautiful day today. Just to touch on that, you know when people go to meetings, this is just a fun fact. When you meet somebody for like a work meeting, the first thing everybody always says is like, how about that weather? Or on the Zoom, how's the weather over there? It's like the one common thing we can all talk about. And I hear so many times like criticism about that, where people are like, it's just a filler to talk about the weather, but like it gives me joy. I would like to hear about the weather. I want to know, like, are you in a rainstorm right now? Like, do I wish it was raining here because it's so hot? Like, sometimes I want to hear it. Like, we should be able to talk about the weather and not be judged. It's it's a great topic. Do you how do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_03Of course. And I really think, like, you know, and not just because of the weather, but just so many other reasons the day could be beautiful. And um realizing just you know, being with you two here.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, it's beautiful, Kevin. It makes the day beautiful. That's amazing. Uh this is my favorite podcast so far now. Listeners, what you can't see right now, which you're really missing out, is this is one of the most beautiful setups. I love there's like a pink coral-ish color wall in the back. Like your outfit is just you just look really prepared. This is one of those moments where I really wish that everyone could see us right now. Not me, but you for sure today. You're you're crushing it. But anyway, I'll stop fangirling you for a second and just ask you for for our listeners that that don't know you and you're new to our show, can you tell us more about you? Tell us about your origin, what inspired you to, you know, start Limitless Leaders. How did you kind of get on this career path that led you to this point?
SPEAKER_03So I came from India about 20 plus years ago, from New Delhi specifically, to work at Microsoft. And my career started there. Had a wonderful 20 years at Microsoft, and I thought I would one day retire from there. There was no inclination to even leave Microsoft or start anything of my own. But, you know, they always say things happen, and you know, if there's things are meant to be, they happen. So suddenly, where as I was celebrating my 20 years at Microsoft, I got an opportunity to join a tech startup. It was wonderful, fantastic opportunity. It was a great leap from what I was doing at Microsoft. So I joined the startup. And long story short, within a year, I ended up resigning from that role because of a last-minute management change and an incident that happened again. All of the my story is on LinkedIn and everywhere. So if people are interested, they can go read more about that. But today's conversation, I'll say that when that role ended, I had again a door open in front of me. I was like, okay, what do I do next? And just things fell into place within a few weeks, and I realized I'm limitless. No, if I set my mind to something, no one can really stop me. And that's been a common thread in my entire life. So just things fell into place, and I came up with this idea of starting Limitless Leaders to help individuals unleash their limitless potential in leadership. And that's how Limitless Leaders was born. Now, three years into the company, I've realized that it's not just enough to help individuals become great leaders. In today's, you know, with tech layoffs and AI and all, you know, this rapid evolution and change that's happening in the tech industry. I realize I need to actually go beyond helping leaders become great and help them become sought after. So that's my mission now is help individuals, especially tech professionals, become sought-after leaders, sought after in their company as well as in the field. And so yeah, that's uh the exciting journey I'm on.
SPEAKER_01So, what do you mean by limitless in the context of leadership? Is there a mindset or a behavior that you think holds people back?
SPEAKER_03Yes, it's about you know seeing big things and you know, seizing big opportunities, being able to see more than others, and also not being held back by our own limits and the programming that we've been carrying based on our past experiences and learning. So yeah, just being it's a mindset as well as a behavior, I would say. But really being someone that can see beyond limits, see the horizon, go after the things that they want, and without anything holding back, have the confidence to achieve those things.
SPEAKER_00I think confidence is is is definitely a big factor in a lot of things that people undervalue confidence, and there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance that I think we always kind of have to teeter because you have all these people who like to think I'm just confident, but you're actually you're arrogant, and it's a very bad look that I don't think people realize. When you come in and you're confident and you're in your smiling, and to your point of it's not just about the weather, but you're just having a good day. Everyone feels that. Everybody's happy that you're there, everyone can see that. But when you come in with this like arrogance or this cockiness, you make others feel less than. And it doesn't actually build you up, it makes you look worse. And I think to you to your point, good leaders, that is a big difference. They're confident, they make you feel seen, they have all of these great things. And what I don't think there's a lot of is programs around this, you know. You can you can build people's confidence, even uh, I'll give an example of totally irrelevant, but animals, you know, people like to save dogs from shelters, and a lot of dogs, you don't know what they've been through. They cannot communicate, they can't speak to it. But the big thing is building up their confidence to get back to to being this better dog and getting them to a better place. I think it's similar with people, even though we can speak, it doesn't mean that we all communicate well. It doesn't mean we have all these. So I'd be curious: are there a lot of leadership programs out there that maybe I'm just not aware of? Where, like, what were you hoping to do differently with yours?
SPEAKER_03Great question. So, yes, there are you know programs available today for anyone that wants to improve their communication skills. And I totally agree that learning to communicate well is one of the critical skills we can learn. If someone had told me when I started my career that, Uma, start working on your communication skills now. I mean, I I mean that would have helped the most because I didn't realize until you know I got into the senior band pretty close to principal band, how important and critical being able to communicate clearly and concisely and storytelling and all of that. I I realized the true importance pretty late, you know, and that is one skill I also think takes a very long time to master. Like I've been to many, you know, leadership programs while I was at Microsoft, and you know, even after that, and I've been able to master skills, and I see other people also being able to master skills a little bit faster, you know, many of the skills, but the communication skills, I mean, they take time. So I think really a few programs come to mind: Toastmasters. There is uh you know, a few programs like magnetic speaking that are focused on communication skills. I've used them myself in my journey. And now we have our own program. And when I realized, you know, that or when I decided that I will start helping individuals become more confident and effective and become limitless leaders and now sought after, one of the things that I wanted to do differently was not just create a safe space for people to come together and learn, you know, make the learning digestible and all that which you know we are doing. I also wanted it to be a place where they can have a community, you know, and learn together as a community. So that was one of the, I would say, a distinguishing factor when it comes to how I approach coaching, is is we also, you know, I work individually with clients, but there is also a huge community factor. So my clients, you know, also are learning from one another and they get to practice in front of their peers and get feedback, not just from me, but from their peers as well. So yeah, there are programs available, Laura, today that are doing a really good job. And yeah, and I think we are doing a great job as well.
SPEAKER_01What's the most common pushback that you get and how do you work through it? Pushback in terms of just acceptance of joining a program or like when people are saying whether or not they, you know, do I really even need this? Like, what's the most common pushback and how do you overcome that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it's time. Like number one pushback is time. You, I mean, you know how busy folks working in tech are. You know, they I mean, my clients are usually working in you know big tech companies, they all have pretty hectic, you know, work as well as personal life. So one of the things is the time. Uh, that's one of the they realize that they need it and you know they want help, but the time kind of you know comes in, that's one of the first problems we solve. So the way I have solved it is the first thing I coach my clients on is actually how to take control of their time and energy and master their calendar and you know how they approach creating value in their life. Um so that's really how we start. That's one of the foundations of you know uh my program. So everyone learns to master their time and energy first, and that way they have now the time to invest in programs like this and not just this. I mean, all my clients are also upskilling in tech and in AI. And I mean, that's just you know how it's going right now. So they are finding that time, you know, by coming into the program and learning that first.
SPEAKER_00I think that's awesome. And and I think what you're doing is is so useful and it's an I don't want to say undervalued, but it's it kind of is in a lot of ways, because it's not something that you you think about every day. I think that's one of the things is some of the things that we don't think about every day, but we need are the most important things, and we don't always know how to find out about those or what those look like. And I want to just go all the way to talking about vulnerabilities and real-world messiness that happens when you're in these situations. So can you tell me about a time that maybe you personally have failed as a leader and what you took away from that experience? Because I think a lot of the the things we ask people are, how did you succeed? And I want to do what you do to get to that place. And I think we forget that failure brings success in a lot of people in a lot of ways and growth and learning. And and I'd like to hear from your personal experience on that.
SPEAKER_03For sure. When I started as a manager for the first time at Microsoft, and this was long back in 2010, I struggled. I mean, just like any other high performer, I was, you know, offered the the promotion to a manager position. I took it, and it was actually interestingly, I took the role, and then in three months I got pregnant as well with my second child. And so, you know, went through the being a new manager and you know, the pregnancy and then maternity leave and all of that as well. So it was one of the most stressful times of my entire career. Like if I look back, I think that was the most stressful time. And what happened, what I didn't realize at that time, even though I had a great manager, what I didn't realize is when you shift to a manager position for the first time, you cannot do what you've always been doing as an individual contributor. There are so many shifts that need to happen. And without knowing that, I was trying, you know, I I came in and I thought, oh, I have to make everyone like, you know, like me. And so many mistakes. Like I made several mistakes and I equated, you know, being likable to being a good manager. I thought everyone in my team has to like me. If someone doesn't like me, that means maybe I'm not good. Or, you know, so so many things. I mean, it's just came with so much, I was carrying so much baggage and you know, lack of understanding that I struggled through the first few years. There was this one particular uh direct report also that was really challenging. And every meeting, you know, he would challenge me. And yeah, it was just pretty stressful. And I had the support from my manager, and most of the rest of the team was super uh excited about my leadership style and all that. But in spite of that, I didn't have the maturity to understand, you know, and connect the dots on what was happening and how I can improve. So that's really, I mean, it was a struggling period of my career. But the good thing that came out of that is at some point it made me just go crazy with oh, I need to figure this leadership and management stuff. Like I need to get better as a leader. And I just went and, you know, read every book that's available, every course that was available, um, and invested in myself. And then at the right time, I also hired, you know, leadership coaches and all that and started working with them. And I think that really helped me. Like it took some time, but what it ended up in is me, you know, learning a leadership style that really worked for people. And when I left Microsoft, as well as the tech startup that I was at, both I left very suddenly, like without notice, and people were not expecting because I was like doing so well, and I looked like the most loyal employee ever. And they never thought like I would leave the company. And so suddenly, when we went and said, Oh, I'm leaving, my teams you know, would tell me that they would never have any other leader like me. I mean, that's kind of what they said at that time. I know that's not true, but what I guess what I'm coming to is, you know, that experience of how my you know management journey started and this difficult direct report and all of that just kind of pushed me into really learning how to be a good leader. And I'm so grateful, you know, that's how it all ended up. And that's what gave me the confidence when I was thinking, hey, what do I do next? It gave me the confidence to start Limitless Leaders and you know go into this space because of you know what I saw with my team and the success that we had.
SPEAKER_01We talk a lot on this part about Gen AI, about automation. Do you think there are aspects of leadership coaching that Gen AI can replace? And are there pieces that specifically it can't replace or yes?
SPEAKER_03So I I mean I use like every every AI tool that's available for coaches today for my business already. And I mean it's great to use them. And I think definitely that's gonna be part of how coaches will operate going forward, and it'll be available as a tool for you know people in some form or the other. But I think the aspect that will never be replaced by AI, at least in my limited understanding right now, is the human aspect of it and the community aspect. My clients, you know, we have a group session every Tuesday, for example, and my clients show up to that in spite of you know whether they are you know traveling on vacation or they are you know tired from work and commuting back, like doesn't matter. They show up to that class because they really care about being part of the community and they get that connection and of course value. And I think that is something that AI will not be able to replace. So I think yes, you know, we can use AI to uh definitely elevate what we are doing. There, there is definitely aspects of things that you know we can get from AI, but I think if we pair it with the human aspect and the community aspect, I think uh, you know, people will get a lot more.
SPEAKER_00I like everything you've said today. I really do. And um, I I I still have a last question for you, but I just wanted you to know that I've enjoyed this conversation today and I was hesitant. I just want you to know I was a little hesitant because it's a unique topic and it's not one we talk about often. So anytime there's one unique, it I'm always kind of like, let's see. But this has been great, and I just want to say thank you so much for coming on today. Before we let you go, just one final question. When we're talking about just down the line, looking ahead, what kind of leader do you think the next generation of tech professionals will need to become? And how are you helping to shape that?
SPEAKER_03Great question, and that's kind of the essence of my sought-after leader concept. And I'm also writing a book, by the way, it will be released in May. It's called The Sought After Leader. That's the current title. In that, I'm actually sharing the entire playbook for what you know today's leaders will or tomorrow's leaders will need to really stand out and be highly relevant and in demand in you know the fast-paced world that we are living in. So, in short, I think leaders will need to be very adaptable, continuously learning, will need to know their, like we'll need to have self-awareness and know themselves so they can understand their unique value proposition and then be able to communicate and articulate that so others also know their value and can you know seek them out. So I think those are some of the things that I would say uh is becoming more and more critical. It was not, I mean, these things are not new. I mean, we you know, we've always needed to be uh adaptable and all these things, but I think it's just becoming more and more critical. Like, you know, if yeah, it's I think it's just becoming critical and essential that we learn some of these things and learn how to have our brand communicate who we are and what we stand for. And many of those things are becoming super essential and critical.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much, as mentioned. You have been great, and we truly appreciate you coming on our show today.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much. I totally enjoyed the conversation and it was great meeting you, Laura and Kevin.
SPEAKER_00Yes, thank you. So, Kevin, we just spoke with Uma about being a leader, talking leadership. Uh, and I just gotta ask you, do you think you're a good leader, Kev?
SPEAKER_01I think so. I think people like me. I think people like to work with me. So, I mean, that seems like a good thing.
SPEAKER_00You know, Kevin, uh I wanna say that we talked about football last week and we talked about just the disrespect of the Eagles, but as a Commanders fan, gosh, we were embarrassing this week. It was horrible. Did you see the game?
SPEAKER_01I did, it was ridiculous.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, talk about a bad leader. The whole team really led themselves to the ground, and I was disappointed in my own team. So I'm gonna shame them right now, and the hopes that they hear this and that Jaden Daniels steps up and carries them home next week. Also, did you see my own team? I'm shaming. Eckler just like fell on the field, no one hit him, and now he's like out for the season. Like, come on.
SPEAKER_01Achilles, like that seems something that is gonna be really painful to hear. Yes. How do you live without an Achilles? Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes. It wasn't even like how in the uh Kansas City where the they like hit each other and the guys like so bad. I don't know, it's worse. Anyway, back to being a leader. Are you a better leader than Jaden Daniels was the other day?
SPEAKER_01I think so. I think you know, my coaching tree is a pretty good uh group. So I think I'm I'm I'm proud of the folks that I have trained who have then gone on to become other people's leaders and have said good things about them and good things about me. So I feel like yes, I'm gonna say definitively yes.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I love that.
SPEAKER_01What about you? Are you a good leader?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm an incredible leader. Um, I'm extremely humble. And uh no, I I would say that I am a good leader because I I think that to be a good leader, I try to have team members that are better than me so that I'm learning as I'm leading, um which I think is really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think so too. Um and you talked about it on the pod. I mean, with her, I think, you know, again, there's certain aspects of leadership that you can certainly learn, but like as you mentioned, the confidence piece is a big thing that it's hard to train on. I think you can certainly there's certain aspects that I think you can definitely learn, right? Like different coaching styles and different things, but if you don't have the right personality or the mindset, I think that's gonna be a piece that's hard to overcome. So I actually thought this pod was really good because I think like she talked about the human aspect and that Gen AI cannot replace. And I feel like that's so true, right? There's aren't certainly pieces of this, like you can get the words that it will tell you to say, but if you don't know how to deliver them, then you're not gonna be able to do so. And so I feel like there's elements of this that I definitely think could be automated, but I do think she did a really good job kind of explaining what pieces can be automated. So I thought this was a good pod.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. 10 out of 10. If you're a 10 out of 10 or you want to become a 10 out of 10, we'd love to hear from you. We'd have happily introduce you to other leaders or help you become a better leader or help you find a leader that you might be interested in. Please reach out to us at contact at thattechpod.com. Head over to our website, www.thattechpod.com, and enter your email to subscribe if you haven't just yet. And don't worry, social media, we're there. Head on over to LinkedIn.com slash that tech pod and give us a follow. I think we might be on Instagram, Twitter, text, t TikTok. I don't know where we are, but we're definitely on LinkedIn, so definitely come find us. Kevin, is there anything else our listeners can do?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Go to Where Bake Your Pods, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartMedia, or what have you. And leave us a review, leave us a rating, let us know how we're doing. All that stuff helps us with the algorithms and gets us out there, which is much appreciated. Thanks, everybody.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, everyone.