B.O.O.S.T. Podcast
B.O.O.S.T. Podcast
Navigating Leadership in Turbulent Times with Barron Witherspoon | EP148
In this episode, TEDx speaker and bestselling author, Barron Witherspoon shares his expertise on how leaders can safely navigate turbulent times. In addition to understanding and addressing the diverse needs of multiple audiences, including employees and stakeholders, Barron discusses the key traits that make a successful leader, highlighting the significance of resilience and adaptability.
Additionally, Barron reveals the inspiration behind his book “The Black Exec” and sheds light on two of the 'seven myths' he debunks, illustrating how it impacts the journey of Black executives in corporate America.
This insightful conversation provides valuable strategies for leaders looking to navigate challenges and make a lasting impact in their organizations.
Website: www.theblackexec.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barron-witherspoon-9b8357b/
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They've taken DEI and kind of made that a label to suggest that people don't belong, right? And that they are also somehow inferior to the people who do belong. And that's really the game that's being played.
Kelly:That was Baron Witherspoon. He's a TEDx speaker, the best-selling author of The Black Exec and The Seven Myths, and featured thought leader in The Hill, Fortune, and NPR. In this episode, Baron shares strategies to secure thought leadership space. I'm Kelly Leonard, and this is the Boost Podcast.
Announcer:Welcome to the Boost Podcast, the podcast created to ignite your business and career potential. Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur, launching your entrepreneurial journey, an established business leader, or early career professional, we've got you covered. In each episode, host Kelly Leonard and her guests dive into one aspect of Kelly's Signature Boost Framework, ensuring you get practical, actionable insights, tips, and takeaways to build your brand, optimize relationships, obtain more leads, secure thought leadership space, and tap into new markets. Get ready for bite-sized power-packed interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders. Greatness awaits you. So let's boost together. And now, here's Kelly Leonard.
Kelly:Hey Baron, welcome to the Boost Podcast.
Barron:Well, thanks for having me, Kelly. I'm very anxious uh to get into the conversation and um and have a little fun.
Kelly:Likewise, likewise. So for folks who are hearing your name for the very first time, tell us a little about yourself.
Barron:Well, my name is Baron Witherspoon, and I'm a retired executive from Procter and Gamble. Uh, but probably more important than that, I'm a father, uh a husband, and uh and I'm very, very busy and active in my retirement. And one of the things that uh keeps me busy is uh speaking in support of the book that I wrote uh recently called The Black Exec. So I'm doing that in all kinds of forums.
Kelly:Awesome, beautiful. And so I'm excited for this conversation because for folk for folks who are tuning in, this has been a conversation long overdue. Baron and I have been wanting to connect. And so I'm excited, and I know there's some pearls of wisdom that are going to come out of this conversation. And so, first and foremost, um, you know, I would be remiss if I didn't recognize the times that we're really in. And without getting overly political, um, we are definitely living in um turbulent times. And so, from your perspective, what is your suggestion for leaders as they're navigating this really interesting period with their multiple audience, their multiple teams, their employees, their stakeholders, et cetera?
Barron:I think this is an important season for um for all of us to really amplify our voice. Um, and when I say that, I don't mean, you know, for us to get louder, uh, but I mean really increasing the scope and scale of the ideas or how we are talking about what is going on. Um, there's a tendency, I think, in today's discourse to get in the weeds and start talking about things at the sort of really ground level. And I think it's easy to disagree when you stay at the ground level. Um, the the way towards agreement is really elevating the conversation. And so I think we have to start to ladder up to higher order thinking um and to principles uh where folks can find agreement. And that's very, very important. Um, but also important is have big ideas. Um, you know, just talking for talking's sake is not very helpful, uh, but have big ideas uh of how to make progress, big ideas of how to collaborate, uh, how to work together, how to get things done. Um, and I think, you know, that's my message right now. I'm all about let's let's bring the ideas forward that will get the things done that we need to happen.
Kelly:Yeah, and um, it sounds so simple, right, but yet so complex at the same time. And so it really kind of boils down to to great leadership. And I know your book talks a great deal about this subject of leadership. So, from your perspective, what is the most important trait a leader should have and why?
Barron:Well, I think the most important trait is character. Um, and when I think about character, what I'm really talking about is how do we, as people, develop a set of values that we really can stand behind? Um, and probably as important as that, honing that set of values into a set of core values. And core values are things that, you know, we just won't compromise on. These are the things we stand for in fair weather and in foul weather. Um and um, you know, when I say character, that's what I'm talking about. What is what is it that you stand for uh in in terms of core values? And and the reason I say that, Kelly, is because great leaders lead from the core out. So if you don't have a core, um your leadership is going to be wishy-washy. And so you really should be working now to make sure you understand your own core and then lead or speak, you know, from that core, that set of core values. And that's that's what I try to do, um, both in the the spoken word and in the written word. Um both are very, very important. Um, and so, you know, I've been writing a lot um in this season uh to try and make sure that uh, you know, what I stand for at the core gets uh recorded in history while this history is happening.
Kelly:I appreciate that. And especially, you know, when I think about what I am experiencing um just in terms of in the marketplace right now, is perhaps this disconnect, either an erosion of core, or maybe there's a the core is really, you know, when I think of a core, I'm thinking of something very solid. But I feel like so many leaders' cores are either um fixed in gelatin, meaning they're really like wobbly or not solid, and or perhaps there's this um interesting tug because there's this um need to also satisfy shareholders, for example, shareholder value and the almighty dollar, because we do operate in a capitalist capitalistic system. And so I do wonder from your perspective, how does good leadership balance that? And I and I guess maybe I'm answering my own question because it all perhaps comes back to that core that you mentioned.
Barron:Yeah, I mean, I think it it depends on you know, you know, what where you're operating on the spectrum, right? And the spectrum is from, you know, sort of social, familial type issues all the way to kind of the political arena, right? And in the social issues, uh, people can be absolute, right? We can say, we believe this, you know, this, you know, either because of our faith or because this is a family value or this is what grandmama used to say, or whatever. Um, and you can be pretty dogged in that, right? And not really face a lot of opposition. The further you go away from that familial piece into things that are societal and political, right, um, the more you run the risk of coming into opposition. And it's in the face of the opposition that the character really matters. Because in order to gain agreement, sometimes people simply compromise, right, uh to try to reach the agreement. And there's nothing necessarily inherently bad about compromise, but if you compromise away your values, right, then you should never have participated in the conversation in the first place. You actually added no value to the conversation because you didn't come in any kind of authentic way that was based on who you are at the core. Um, and so that's what we're seeing with a lot of these leaders, right? They they're making the kinds of statements that they feel will placate certain audiences until it gets hot. When it gets hot, they retreat from those statements, right? Because they really aren't functioning from their core.
Kelly:Yeah.
Barron:And I will say this about the core, Kelly. You know, my core may be different than somebody else's core, right? A person may have core values that are that are absolutely harmful, right? But that's their core. And they may be living and operating and leading from their core. So we just can't assume that somebody doesn't have character, right? I.e. following their core, right? Just because they're showing up badly. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
Kelly:I mean, that it's that's so true. And to some degree, it also becomes like just quite baffling because there it also just makes you wonder, well, well, who hurt you? Like, why is your why is your core so crusty? Like that's exactly right.
Barron:So many people are hurt, right? Right. That's why this season is so uh strange, because what's happening is people are tapping into the hurt.
Kelly:Yeah.
Barron:And that's resonating with people, and and folks are going, hey, you're listening to my hurt, so I'm with you.
Kelly:Yeah. And that adage that hurt people, hurt people.
Barron:And so that's exactly right.
Kelly:Yeah, yeah. Okay, so then how does failure make a leader? Because I think what we're experiencing also is, you know, this perception of failure in the marketplace for many leaders. And then is it just as important as success or more so this concept of failure?
Barron:Well, I mean, my my perspective on failure is that we should always try to fail forward. You know, what does that mean? That means we're in pursuit of success, we may fall, right? But just because we failed, if we were failed, uh if we failed because we were, you know, doing nothing, right? Or we were in pursuit of idleness or or something, you know, that is not correct, that that's not helpful, right? Nor is it helpful to be in pursuit of the right thing, fail, and not learn from it, right? So the the failing forward is when we are pursuing the right thing, we're pursuing success and we have a a hiccup, a misstep, we make a mistake, or we're not successful against a goal or something in the pursuit of success. Because in in my mind, failure is defined in contextually in terms of its juxtaposition to success. It's just like light and darkness, right? Darkness is defined in terms of its juxtaposition to light, right? And so this is what we're really talking about when we say failure. That's why people do get a lot of value out of failing because they learn something that can put them back on course toward the success. Now, the second part of your question, you know, are these equal or is one better than the other and so forth? In my mind, success is more important than failure. Failure is something that may happen that we can learn to change or move or do something with that failure to put us back on the course for success. It's all about succeeding. Um, you know, with my kids, when I used to teach my kids how to play various games and uh and game mental games and other stuff, right? Games of chance or whatever it was, I always taught them to pursue winning. Right? If if you're not here to win the game, don't play the game. We don't play games that have a defined winning proposition without trying to pursue the winning proposition. That's that's not fair to the other people who are playing. Right. Right. Um so so you know, you may fail in that, but you failed in the context of pursuing the actual success. In other words, trying to win.
Kelly:So the the key takeaway that I hear in that is through failure, like there needs to be a lesson that's learned as a result of failure because absent a lesson, failure is foolishness, really, because the idea is how do I get better? How I do how how am I better? Well, how do I evolve as a result of the failure that I experience?
Barron:That's exactly right. We don't want to glorify failure. That's kind of the opposite, you know, you know, dream. We don't want to glorify failure. What we want to say is fail in pursuit of success. Yes. And then get back on track towards success.
Kelly:Right, right, exactly. Pivot quickly, pivot quickly. So let's talk about your book a bit. Um, you know, The Black Exec. What inspired you to write the book? Like, was there a pivotal moment or an experience that drove that process?
Barron:I mean, it really was a set of experiences um that that kind of worked around a central theme. And that was, you know, everywhere I would go, um, I would run into other folks, especially other black folks, who um had a set of common experiences. They were experiencing the same sorts of things that I was experiencing. Um, and, you know, especially if they were long in their tenure, right? And it occurred to me that we have all these younger people that are coming into the organization and they're kind of learning all these things the same way we did, which is bumping into them and, you know, solving by trial and error and all of that. And I thought, what a travesty, right? That uh we're gonna leave another generation to come and have to learn this stuff the hard way. Um, and it's really a shame that many of these things have not been captured in writing in a useful way for the next generation um to advance their, you know, their careers. So that was really the impetus behind writing it. So, you know, I set out to write something that would actually be a set of tools that next generation leaders could use that was grounded in my own real world experience. So not platitudes and philosophies and all that. This is stuff, real stuff that happened in real life. But I give you the tool for how to think about and address what happens to you in real life. And these myths, as I call them, um, the seven myths, are things that will happen, not maybe, they will happen in the course of a career.
Kelly:So can you like shed light on perhaps maybe just one of the seven myths that you debunk in your book and and how does that impact the journey of black executives in corporate America, particularly today?
Barron:Yeah, I mean, I think corporate America is in a in a kind of a um, you know, in a in a fix, right? Um, because the attacks that are happening on um workplace diversity and so forth are causing companies to take pause on a big strategic area, right, which they have been saying for many, many moons now drives competitive advantage, right? So as a result, people have kind of had to take sides on the issue. And some companies have sided affirming it and some have denied it. Okay. But in that context, um, there there's one myth that actually bleeds to the second myth, which I think is really relevant. Okay. That first myth is the myth of belonging. And it says, you know, that you know, you don't belong here. You you you got in some kind of crazy way that's not right, and you shouldn't be here, right? And you know, what I encourage the reader to do is accept their own readiness to be there, right? Um, and that's that's important, and obviously a lot of a lot of different elements of how you do that, okay? But what happens is by challenging the fact that we actually belong there, some people actually leave. Right? They say I'm not a fit, the people here don't want me, and so they leave. Okay. Um, those who stay will run into the second myth, which is the myth of inferiority, which says that they are better than you, right? And so what happens in these in this type of environment is that the the people who are perpetuating these myths, they'll jump off of the first belonging myth. They say, okay, well, you belong here. You're just not as good as everybody else, right? The other folks are better than you. And that's why they're gonna get promoted. That's why they're gonna get the plum assignments, that's why, that's why, that's why. Okay. So this is really relevant because what's happening now is you're seeing the challenges to whether or not people belong in the environments that they're in. They've taken DEI and kind of made that a label to suggest that people don't belong, right? Right. And that they are some also somehow inferior to the people who do belong. Okay. And that's really the game that's being played. So if people don't read the whole book, if they read the first two chapters, they're gonna get a whole lot of useful stuff for right now.
Kelly:Wow. Well, I definitely I look for I haven't had an opportunity to read it, but I am because now look, my my interest is fully peaked.
Barron:Well, that's my job. Pique your interest.
Kelly:And so, Baron, if someone is tuning in um and they do want to tap into your book and or just build community with you, what's the best way for them to connect with you?
Barron:Um, I think the best way is LinkedIn uh for this kind of an audience. Uh just go ahead and and um, you know, follow me on LinkedIn, hit me up, and um, let's get connected on LinkedIn. That'll do several things for this, for the listener, right? One, it will allow you to go and read everything that I have out there in the public domain, um, you know, because a lot of that stuff I've I've put in my LinkedIn profile. Um, and then secondly, it'll allow you to kind of get a direct link to my website, uh, which is the blackexec.com. And in there, you can find the stuff that I've written and the speeches I've made and that sort of stuff. And I think that's the best way to get familiar. And then come at me with your questions. I'm all about the questions, um, and I'm all about that next generation. Um, so you know, my answers are gonna tend to be um tailored uh to you know younger people who are trying to find their way. I've had a 35-year career in in corporate America, very successful, wonderful career, but it's time to give back.
Kelly:I know that's right. I know that's right. And so I I thank you, friend, for what you're doing to serve and support our next generation of black executives, and certainly thank you for your time uh today. And um Baron's contact information will be in the show notes. So be sure to reach out to him, let him know that you heard about him on the Boost Podcast. Buy his book. By his book, folks.
Barron:That's right.
Kelly:Um yes, yes. So thank you so much for your time and insights, Baron.
Barron:Thank you. It's a pleasure to talk with you, Kelly. Have a great evening.
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