B.O.O.S.T. Podcast
B.O.O.S.T. Podcast
Unmasking Imposter Behavior: Dr. Anne Dranitsaris on Optimizing Relationships | EP152
In this episode, Dr. Anne Dranitsaris, a renowned expert in behavioral change, discusses how imposter behavior manifests in professional settings and its impact on workplace dynamics. She explains the signs of imposter behavior in personal relationships and offers strategies to address it. Anne emphasizes the importance of understanding and reducing imposter behavior to enhance communication and build trust in both personal and work relationships. She also introduces her newest book, “Become Who You Are Meant to Be in Your Relationships,” which provides deeper insights into optimizing relationships by overcoming imposter behavior.
Website: https://www.dranitsaris-hilliard.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/dranitsarishilliard
Connect with Dr. Anne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annedranitsaris/
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With all of these increased expectations on leaders, they often don't even realize that they themselves have disconnected from their authentic self and their authentic leadership style.
Kelly Leonard:That was Dr. Anne Dranitsaris. Anne is an author of more than 75 books, multiple podcasts, and videos. She's also a therapeutic relationship and leadership coach and psychotherapist who is known for her work in psychological type and neuropsychology of relationships and leadership. In this episode, Anne chats about how to optimize relationships by understanding how imposter behavior shows up at work and in personal relationships. I'm Kelly Leonard, and this is the Boost Podcast.
Announcer:Welcome to the Boost Podcast, the podcast created to ignite your business and career potential. Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur, launching your entrepreneurial journey, an established business leader, or early career professional, we've got you covered. In each episode, host Kelly Leonard and her guests dive into one aspect of Kelly's Signature Boost Framework, ensuring you get practical, actionable insights, tips, and takeaways to build your brand, optimize relationships, obtain more leads, secure thought leadership space, and tap into new markets. Get ready for bite-sized power-packed interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders. Greatness awaits you. So let's boost together. And now, here's Kelly Leonard.
Dr. Anne:Hello, Dr. Ann. Welcome to the Boost Podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Kelly. I'm really excited to be here tonight.
Kelly Leonard:Yes, yes. Now, if folks are listening, now our longtime listeners will probably recognize your name. But for folks who have not heard your name previously, tell us a little bit more about who you are and the work that you do.
Dr. Anne:Sure. I'm Dr. Andranit Seris, and I am a clinical psychotherapist. I'm an author, and I also do work in organizations with leadership development with my daughter and business partner at Caliber Leadership Systems. And part of my whole purpose for both work and in life is to help people in my sphere to achieve their potential. And I do that through all of the modalities that I just mentioned to you. I've been doing this for a long time. And hopefully I'll continue to do it a lot longer as well.
Kelly Leonard:Now, Anne, thank you so much for the work that you do and just the many years and the many lives that I know you've touched over the years. One of the things that I know that you're passionate about is this topic around impostor behavior. And so can you share with us a little bit more about how it how imposter behavior typically manifests in professional settings? And then what impact does it have on really workplace dynamics?
Dr. Anne:Yeah, it, you know, we we all adopt particular ways of behaving to gain to gain approval and to fit in and to really get that sense of belonging and and truly in the workplace. And I don't think there's any other place where there are times when we feel less like ourselves for whatever reason. It could be the environment, it could be the leader that we have. But you know, when when I talk about the imposter syndrome, I'm talking about this persona, this false persona that we put on for the world to show that we're a good leader or that we're a fantastic employee, or, you know, just with that notion of getting approval and not having people judge or reject us for being who we actually are. And the impact in organizations is quite often it shuts people down, especially people at lower levels, because they're afraid to say anything that might not go along with the status quo, or it might not be pleasing to their employee, or they don't want to be shamed or humiliated for say thinking outside the box, for example. And so although organizations can say that they really want to foster innovation through their behavior, leaders can inadvertently shut it down.
Kelly Leonard:So, what are some, I guess, strategies for leaders to first and foremost, I guess, recognize if someone is perhaps struggling with imposter behavior? And then what can one, as a leader, what can I do, you know, in terms of myself? Because of course I can't control others' people's behavior. All I can do is control my own. What can I do to foster an environment that perhaps allows people to feel safe to let that guard down and to not sort of embody this false persona?
Dr. Anne:So such a great question, Kelly. And I think it really does start with the leader themselves, because in our work environment these days, people are trying really hard to be the right kind of leader, to be politically correct, to not offend everyone, to make sure that the workplace is psychologically safe, even though they might not even know what that means. And so with all of these increased expectations on leaders, they often don't even realize that they themselves have disconnected from their authentic self and their authentic leadership style. And so, say someone with an orientation, for example, to be a little more disciplined and professional in their leadership style may become an imposter and act like they're more permissive than they are, because that's what's expected of them. So, first and foremost, back to your question, they have to be aware enough of themselves to know that their behavior may be fostering imposter feelings or self-doubt or fear even in their employees. And you know, I'm I I think about with your question, I think about the importance of adopting those, say, rules of brainstorming where you let people talk and you don't judge their ideas and you don't shut them down, but nor do they do you falsely make people think that their ideas are great and that you're going to go along with it just to appear like you're a great boss. You see, it's it's being authentic, it's it's really for leaders, it's doing the job of leading and delivering expectations in a human way. And so not really omitting that that people bring their feelings to the workplace and people need feedback and they need their confidence affirmed and and they need guidance and coaching. And so if leaders are neglecting the people side of leadership because they can't fake that, they don't know how to do it, and so they're gonna fake that they know how, that they need to build leadership skills and really get in touch with what it is to be the that human being that's leading their people.
Kelly Leonard:Well, and I think so much of what I hear underneath of what you're saying is this notion that leaders need to lean into some level of of vulnerability as well.
Dr. Anne:Yes, very, very well said. It it is showing up as a human and not as a person that they expect themselves to know more and be more than they actually know because leaders are evolving human beings as well. They they just don't magically show up and know everything about leading different kinds of people. Same as parenting. It's like we we need to develop over time and you know, find out what works and what doesn't work in in that authentic way to be able to say, I really don't know and I don't know how to handle this situation. So let me go get some coaching, let me go get some help, and then we'll come back and talk about it.
Kelly Leonard:Yeah, and so even in that, so even in your your response just now, you know, knowing what works and what doesn't work, because what works for one person may not work for another. Also, and so it's also like you have to have at your disposal multiple, I guess, approaches because there is no one size fits all solution to how we I don't know, support one another as human beings. And so, so yeah, so even that, and I I and I think what I also hear in all of that is it requires some time as well, time and patience.
Dr. Anne:Yeah, and typically um leaders, even at the most senior level in organization, because their comfort zone is in execution and planning and the left brain side of the business, um, they're not as skillful in their leading of people. And and so it's and they lead off the side of their desk, as we like to call it. It's if I have time to do this, and you know, I'm I'm listening to you, but I'm also typing on the on the computer as we're talking, and they they don't take the time to foster the relationship and take care of people's needs in the moment so they don't become issues down the road.
Kelly Leonard:I'm just curious, in the work that you do, have you found that there's been any sort of shift? I know, like historically, when you look at how larger organizations or maybe organizations of any size approach promoting and so moving people from being independent or individual contributors to people leaders, oftentimes it's like, oh, well, you're really good at this line of work. And so the natural progression is is well, now we're gonna give you a team to lead. And so while you may have been really good at doing the work, it doesn't necessarily translate into you being a really great people leader. And so have you found that more organizations have given more attention to and intention to who they are identifying as people leaders? And I mean, you know, there was a time when we weren't really hadn't heard of imposter behavior. Now we're putting language to things that I think have been around since the dawn of time. But have you seen any shifts in how organizations are approaching how they are promoting people from individual contributors to people leaders?
Dr. Anne:I I think the intention has increased. That there is really a desire. And just as in organizations, there there is a desire to train and develop their leaders, but that doesn't always translate when there are bottom line um tightness, you to for lack of a better word. If if the budget's there, if there's time there, but uh to your your point about promoting that person who is most functionally sound, and it never translates because that leader, unless they get some um pre-promotion training, um, they're just gonna keep doing what they've always done because that's their comfort zone. We all do this as humans, we like to stay in our comfort zone. And if in my comfort zone, in my function, it makes me feel the way I want to feel, I'm gonna stay there. If it makes me feel uncomfortable and incompetent when I'm working with people, I'm not gonna go there. And and so um back to your question, I believe the intention is there, and I think some organizations do it much more effectively than others, but it is something that continues to be difficult to manage leaders to behavioral expectations in organizations because it's time consuming. Yeah, very time consuming.
Kelly Leonard:Very true, very true. So, then from your perspective, what are some signs that someone is displaying imposter behavior in personal relationships? And then how can they address it?
Dr. Anne:Um, I I think it this type of thing is really up to the individual to recognize it. And of course, through performance um discussions, regular performance discussions, I don't mean the once a year, but if a leader is fostering a coaching relationship with their direct reports, this is likely to come up where you know that employee has a talent to go further, but they don't want to leave their peer group, for example, because they're comfortable with their peers. They don't want to be managing their peers. They can't conceptualize how they would do that without losing their friends. Um, it's it's being able to talk them through it without judging them or without saying, ah, come on, it's gonna be easy. You got, you know, to really listen to them. And in some cases, getting them the coaching support ahead of time to help them with that transition. In a lot of companies, they just think it should, it should, should be easy for someone who's ambitious to just go to that next level and start uh managing their peers. And they don't train them to do this or to deal with the emotional experience that people have. Because one of the things about the imposter syndrome is that we stay in our comfort zone because we fear a loss of something if we grow and develop. And so it's not just that we doubt our abilities, but that we fear that our growth means a negative consequence to us as well. Wow. Wow.
Kelly Leonard:And so how can understanding and reducing imposter behavior enhance communication and trust in both personal and working relationships?
Dr. Anne:Wow, that's a that's a big question. It's you know, there are two sides to it. You see, one is that we have to tolerate those feelings of being vulnerable and really saying things like, you know, I'm feeling a lack of confidence. Can you help me out? And um not representing yourself to be somehow inadequate, and and that you're being received as as simply as someone who needs some help and support, you know, through through setting up a safe environment like that, but in ourselves, we have to take responsibility for that. And you know, I like to say that our our desire or ambition has to be stronger than our fear of any judgment or negative consequence that might come out of it. And and individuals who who do suffer from the imposter syndrome, they really have to recognize that there's a whole different set of behaviors around when they're they're triggered by fear than when they're actually dreaming about what it is they want to do. And they're willing to go for it, but they're always mediating that inner voice and and their fear. And and so they're really really um getting the help that they need when it's appropriate to build up that inner confidence. And for other people, it's not trivializing the imposter syndrome, like, oh yeah, everyone has doubts. I mean, there this is a real way when somebody is entrenched in in imposter behaviors um because they are so frightened to not meet everybody else's needs, it you just can't say, uh, just do this and it'll go away. You know, the brain is wired with patterns that keep people in this this way of of thinking and and reacting and feeling about themselves, even the most accomplished people. And and so for the for people who know people with the imposter syndrome, it's listening and asking how they can be of support.
Kelly Leonard:Awesome. Thank you for that. So, Dr. Ann, if um anyone is listening in and they want to just reconnect with you, circle back and perhaps even engage um with you in some deeper way, what's the best way for folks to connect with you?
Dr. Anne:Well, I can be reached via my website at DranitSeras dash hilliard.com. I think that will be in the notes or and also my email at adranitseris at caliberleadership.com. I'm happy to to talk to anybody about any issues surrounding the imposter syndrome or other other struggles that people have in leadership and in in organizations. And you know, to that end, just to preempt what you might be asking me, Kelly, I do have a new book coming out on how to retrain the brain in relationships for those who suffer from symptoms of the imposter syndrome called Become Who You're Meant to Be in Your Relationships.
Kelly Leonard:Awesome. And congratulations on the book. Excited for you and excited to be able to pick up a copy of that. And so wishing you just extraordinary success. And thank you as always for being a part of this community.
Dr. Anne:And thank you so much, Kelly, for having me and giving me the opportunity to share this with you and with your audience.
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