Autism Goes To College
Autism Goes To College
EPISODE 23: Academics, community + the deciding factor: A college aligned with my intentions - choosing fit over prestige and why it paid off
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River was pretty clear about the kind of school that would work for them: Strong academics and a school community aligned with their intention to make a difference in the world. Also important: affinity and support groups for them as a student with autism who identifies as LGBTQ. With a short college list that grew -and later contracted- there were high hopes, some rejection, an Early Decision 2 application, a safety school that came through with a scholarship, and a final decision that feels like a great fit. One bit of advice they heard, but didn't take- Start on your personal statement essays during the summer. River talks about that, and their whole high school senior year in the college application and decision process.
Now that I'm genuinely enjoying my social life at Hamilton, I'm more incentivized to actually be social.
SPEAKER_00Having autism isn't something that should prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.
SPEAKER_02Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, see a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.
SPEAKER_06There were a lot of black children on the spectrum who were also deaf. She's not the first one.
SPEAKER_05I researched all of the majors and I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I changed it to chemical engineering, to work for chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class, and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important, and I'm really passionate about state sustainability and stuff. So then I changed it to finally environmental engineering.
SPEAKER_01Especially in a college town like Don't DoorDash. Like, just go out and get the food. That's good exercise.
SPEAKER_08Hey everyone, thanks for joining us for this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge, so here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a group of self-advocates, we all graduated, or we're almost there. And you can do this too.
SPEAKER_04Hello, thanks for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I'm River Islieb and I'm a high school senior. I recently made the decision of where I'm going to go to college next year. My focus on finding a school was primarily one that had a really strong community and super strong academics. I wanted to feel safe wherever I went and like I could find friends. I mostly looked at places on the East Coast and a little bit in the Midwest, and I finally made my choice very recently. On this episode, we will talk through my college list and ultimately what helped me make my decision. I'm here with Catherine O'Brien, the new host of Autism Goes to College podcast, and I'm going to hand it over to her.
SPEAKER_07Hey everyone! Thanks for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I'm Catherine O'Brien, and I have just started working on my PhD in special education at University of California Riverside. I started my college career at Bowdoin in Maine, which was a wonderful experience for me. After working for a few years, I went back for a master's degree at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. There, I focused on science teaching with an equity focus in urban schools. Most recently, I spent five years teaching at Milestone Day School, where I also led the Technology Committee and coordinated LGBTQ inclusion. Then, last fall, my own life experiences as a student on the spectrum and my teaching experiences led me to apply for the program I am in now, which will focus on autistic adolescence with a goal of improving outcomes in our transitions to adulthood, including both to college and to the many other paths we take in life. Before we jump into the conversation with River, a little bit about this podcast and our project. Autism Goes to College began as a documentary film, following five college students on the spectrum as they navigated college life. Eric Lynn Thorst directed the film, and it premiered at the Newport Beach Film Festival in 2019. And was also selected to screen at South by Southwest EDU in 2020, which of course happened online. At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today. And it's all at our website, autismgoes to college.org. So, with screenings limited since the pandemic began, the team wanted to open up the conversation and created this podcast. The first five episodes featured the stars of the film talking in more depth about their college experiences and what they are up to now. And since then, we've talked to students on the spectrum all over the map, sharing all kinds of experiences, working towards degrees and certificates around the country, plus a college counselor, parent perspectives, and admissions officers. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new there's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all of the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Fun fact this project was recognized as the best of the internet in 2022 by the Webby Awards Anthem Awards, winning gold for diversity, equity, and inclusion. And we keep making it better. This podcast is here for us to share and open up the conversation and include more insights from self-advocates on the spectrum. Same with the Resource Center. So reach out if you'd like to get involved or have ideas for us. Let us know what would make it more meaningful and valuable, or what you'd like to contribute. And thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you. Okay, River, how did you make your initial college list? Did you have help from parents or a college counselor?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, um, I had help from a lot of places, mostly help from my school college counselor and a college counselor that we hired outside of school who focuses a lot on students with autism.
SPEAKER_07What sorts of supports did they give you and what advice did you get from them?
SPEAKER_04I think finding the schools to apply to was a really tough point because it was a lot of like FOMO. Um, worrying that I wasn't looking at the right places or that I was going to miss some critical school. But after that hurdle, it was mostly making sure that I was on top of all of my essays. Um, because the school list that I ended up applying to was kind of astronomical. I think I wrote like 100,000 words and kind of pushing all of my activities lists together and making sure that my package was fully coming through. Um, because I have I have a lot of hobbies, and so it's it's hard to fit everything in the small boxes that Common App has to offer.
SPEAKER_07Fair enough. When you were thinking initially about what colleges to apply to, how did you start?
SPEAKER_04I started actually really similarly to how I was looking for new high schools in freshman year of high school. I was I was going to a place that didn't really feel at home. I I had a lot of trouble making friends and the and it was really hard to challenge myself in school. And so when I was looking at colleges, I took a similar approach to how I looked for new high schools. Finding a place that was an eclectic community of people that really wanted to be in school and one that had a really nurturing environment so that I could fully be myself during my studies.
SPEAKER_07How did you go about determining which college had that supportive community?
SPEAKER_04Um, a lot of tours and a lot of research. I when I was doing a lot of my preliminary research, I kind of took the list that was given to me as recommendations and then started off with just like, okay, does it have the base form academic programs that I'm looking for? Can I study molecular biology, biochemistry, all of that nonsense? Does it have the arts programs that I'm looking for? And then I started looking at how the university ran as like an institution, and it can kind of show a lot about how they look at their students and then how those students interact with one another. I also tried a lot to talk to other students on campus and see their opinion of the school and and get their stories.
SPEAKER_07And how did your list evolve over time?
SPEAKER_04It got shorter before it got longer. It's hard to really describe how I discerned what was and wasn't right for me. It was very intuitive for me. But over time it it became very refined, I would say. There the schools that I ended up applying to all had very similar things to offer.
SPEAKER_07Before we move ahead and talk more about your process, let's get a little snapshot of how you got here. Uh, can you tell me about your high school experience?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, it was a rocky ride. Um I was originally at a public high school in Washington, DC, and I was really not enjoying myself. I was I was getting bullied, primarily because of my autistic behavior, actually. And I was having a lot of trouble making friends, and I wasn't really being challenged academically. It was just not the right school for me. And and so I decided I no longer wanted to be there and took it upon myself to start researching schools that were not there. And about three months into that, I told my parents and said that I was applying to schools by that point, and they actually took it fairly well. Um I was mostly looking at schools that were in the area of a lot of our relatives and kind of extended family, and after a lot of convincing, we decided that that might be a good idea to end up moving up there. And at that point, I had found two high schools that I really, really liked and applied to, and I got into both, and I ended up going to um the Cambridge School of Weston, which is a really tight-knit community of really wonderful students and doesn't have the same judgment that my that the public high school I went to had. And I I really feel at home there.
SPEAKER_07When you say you were being bullied for being autistic at your public high school, did you know you were autistic? Did your peers know you were autistic and picked on you because of that in particular?
SPEAKER_04No, I didn't actually know I was autistic by then. I found out I was autistic a couple summers ago. A lot of it was just because I just happened to act in a way that they didn't seem to like. It started off with like an inability to make friends in my peer group and then ended with, you're an outcast, so we can just poke at you. And I I decided that that was no longer how I wanted to live my life.
SPEAKER_07So you knew a lot about yourself, and you very successfully found the right environment for you in high school. What were the factors that were very important to you then in your college search?
SPEAKER_04Well, first and foremost, that they had the right academic um programs for me. When I was looking for colleges, I wanted to study a bunch of different things all at once. And so making sure that each college had all of those things to offer. I'm interested in biology. Specifically, I want to go into pre-med and a public health track. I have high aspirations and hopefully it'll be okay. I'm also a visual artist and wanted to continue pursuing that. I'm primarily a painter, but I'm also I also do sculpting and and fiber arts. I'm also a dancer. Uh that's uh my main form of activity, like active stuff. And so I do that now, like three hours every night almost. And I also wanted to make sure that they had um language that was good for me because I I took a bunch of languages in high school trying to find that one work, that one that worked with my brain, and the only one that I was able to ever be good at was Japanese, um, which is a really weird, strange pick and mostly useless unless you're in Japan. But it's it's an awesome language and awesome culture that I really enjoyed studying, and so I wanted to continue that as well.
SPEAKER_07What else were you looking for besides the academics?
SPEAKER_04Um, I wanted to make sure that the community was full of students and staff that wanted to make a difference in the world, since that's a path that I want for myself. I wanted to find a place where people really cared about their education and what they're going to do with it when they leave whatever institution we're at. And so I looked to see what kind of resources they had, not only for people in my affinities, but like what resources they were for students of color, as well as like first gen students, and then also more in my affinity, queer students and disabled students, and making sure that they have at least majority of those boxes checked, so that it was a place where there was equity in as many areas as there could be.
SPEAKER_07Did you start with a long list and whittle it down? You mentioned there was a process of expansion and contraction.
SPEAKER_04It started off with a long list and then it was immediately cut very short. Um, and then slowly more schools got added. The initial cut was mostly schools that either didn't have the academic programs that I want, were in a location that were simply too far away from home, or didn't triggered my intuitive senses. Um sure.
SPEAKER_07Can you tell me some of those schools that you either intuitively cut or maybe cut because they were in the wrong space?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um Carnegie Mellon was one of them. It was just too far. I didn't really like Pittsburgh. The students seemed like even nerdier than I was, which was too much for me. And that says quite a bit. I'm sure it's a great school.
SPEAKER_07And when you say too far, was that because your parents just couldn't let you go, or because you really want to be close to home?
SPEAKER_04Oh no. Um I I've been a boarding student for three years, and my first word was goodbye. Um I was very ready to leave my parents. Um, but I have a long-term partner that I I've been dating for two years, and um, so we decided we kind of drew a little circle around um the Northeast to kind of keep us close.
SPEAKER_07What about a place that felt intuitively wrong? Can you talk about how that would unfold?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, um, one of those schools was Clark. Um, it was it it was pushed a lot by I had a high school counselor and he pushed a lot of schools that like didn't really work for me. Um and so when he really, really liked a school for me, I initially was like, mmm, I'm not sure. And so I toured Clark and they had everything that I was looking for. The town was cute, it was near, it was at it was near home, but I just it didn't feel right for me. Uh, when I was touring the campus, I couldn't see myself there. It felt like there was focus on areas I wouldn't ever be a part of, and that there the academics in the areas that I did care about were either underfunded or like had less of an like emphasis. And the students didn't seem to have, for lack of a better word, the right vibe.
SPEAKER_07Did you have an early first choice school or a school that you were in love with from the get-go?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I had rose-colored glasses for Brown, uh, Brown University. Um, it was right next door to home. It was attached to RISD, and my partner was looking at art schools, and I love Providence, and it was an open curriculum which was super ideal for me, because a big part of my interest is is finding the intersections between them. And I use a lot of my art to support my other studies elsewhere. And I I really liked the school, and I thought it would be I thought that because it was like the weird Ivy that is like super progressive, that I would I would be able to find myself there. But after sending in my application, the more and more that I did research, I found out that maybe that wasn't the case for me.
SPEAKER_07So you applied and then with that application pending, you sort of fell out of love with it, it sounds like?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, I still had my hopes up of getting in. Um, I mean, I w if I got in, I was gonna go. It was ED, it was binding.
SPEAKER_07What research did you do that that changed changed your, I guess, level of passion about going?
SPEAKER_04Well, I fell into a rabbit hole about a lot of their recent issues with confronting their past of participating in in the slave trade. I also was curious as to the origin of like the term Ivy League and how rooted that is in sports. And I also visited the campus quite a bit. And I also looked at some of their like past acceptances, and the students were a lot more bland than I was looking for, and it didn't seem like they were looking for a student like me, and then that became increasingly apparent when I super didn't get in.
SPEAKER_07How did you feel when you didn't get in?
SPEAKER_04Initially, really shitty. I think primarily rather than not getting to go, I was more upset that I wasn't like good enough, which is not the greatest mindset for that moment.
SPEAKER_07Do you have any tips for high school juniors that are facing down this process next year about how to maybe gird their loins against rejection, or is it just hard?
SPEAKER_04I wish I did. I think it's just hard and you have to get through it, and then it all gets better when you find your place.
SPEAKER_07Speaking of finding your place, you said you've recently decided. You had some second choice schools, some other options. How did things unfold after you got rejected from Brown?
SPEAKER_04Well, I I started off with talking to my partner and her mom, who have who have become my like grounding place in people. My partner's mom, who is super opinionated and very steadfast, was like, I knew Brown is not the school for you, and I'm so glad you didn't get in. I was I was very confused and I was like, all right, do tell. And she started talking about how, in a majority of like big institutions like Ivy's or like state schools, I would not be able to escape the jocks of the world and the people who I tended to struggle with a lot in the past. If I went to a smaller liberal arts school, then I would be able to hone in on the students that were kind of odd and eclectic and interesting. And it was funny, my parents were really hoping for me to get into Brown. And when they didn't, they decided to just pull out of the race entirely and decided that they didn't want to get their hopes up for any individual school because they realized just how awful it was to get your hopes up and for it to kind of be smushed down like that. Um, and so they started just being excited that I was applying to as many schools as I was. And while on the other hand, my partner and her mom were like, no, I think I think Wesleyan is the place for you. We just we just feel it. And and so on a whim, I applied early decision two there and ended up getting in, and I'm absolutely thrilled.
SPEAKER_07So you were looking at Wesleyan, you mentioned your partner and their mom pushing liberal arts colleges. Were there some other liberal arts colleges that had floated towards the top of the list?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was I was also really interested in Vassar, which to me felt like a slightly more history language arts kind of school, even though that's completely wrong. It's just like how it sat in my mind. Um I also really was like, I liked Oberlin, um, Skidmore was up there. I really liked Tufts, which is another one that is not, it's not quite a liberal arts university, but it had everything I was looking for. It was a little bit big though.
SPEAKER_07We've talked about the process and about picking schools, but what about writing applications? Did you disclose autism? Did you disclose LGBTQ status? How did you handle all that?
SPEAKER_04I started the disability affinity at my school, and I'm I'm a big disability advocate. It's it's part of my package. And so I was I was very forthcoming about expressing my autism and how that has shaped who I am in my in my um application. But I got a lot of pushback from that um from my school counselor, which was very strange because it was the only time I had experienced that at my school. The college counselor explicitly told me that it might hinder my ability to get into schools if I had disclosed my autism and very much discouraged that of me. And he also kind of underestimated my ability to get into better schools as soon as I disclosed my autism, even though my grades were straight A's since sixth grade and and I have almost every single extracurricular in the book. It was just tough trying to find a place for myself in my future when it felt like someone fundamentally didn't understand me and was discrediting me because of a trait that I could not control that I actually found to be something I'm proud of.
SPEAKER_07How did you respond to him besides just going ahead and doing it anyway?
SPEAKER_04I smiled and said, okay, and then found an outside of school counselor.
SPEAKER_07You said early on that you spent a lot of time on the applications and that you wrote a lot. How did you manage yourself and manage your time for that?
SPEAKER_04Most of it was trying to figure out when I it was best for me to do the writing. I'm not the best writer in the world. It's an area that I struggle with a lot. But when I am writing about things that is required on the common app, or it's like, what do you want to do in in our school and how do you want to be how do you want to how do you see your future? And and other like very fundamental like psychological questions about your internal self. I found I really needed to be in the right headspace, and pushing myself when I wasn't in that right headspace was just going to get me a bunch of word count that I had to delete later. And so trying to like game when I would feel that way and and carving out like an hour or two during when I was feeling like that, even if it meant I had to push aside some other responsibilities, was kind of how it all ended up happening.
SPEAKER_07Could you predict when the application writing headspace was coming or induce it in some way?
SPEAKER_04It mostly ended up being whenever I had a spurt of inspiration, actually. If I had a really good conversation with the head of the dance department at CSW and my advisor, and okay, now I now I'll be able to. And then other times it would just feel like it was so So daunting that I didn't know what to do. It took me a lot more time than I than I thought it would when most of my peers were like already sent in their early applications and majorityly or majority done done with their other apps. I I was sitting there not knowing what to do with myself and kind of pushing myself and judging myself for not having been as on time as I probably could have been if I pushed myself.
SPEAKER_07So final results of all of this hard work.
SPEAKER_04I applied early action to University of Vermont. That was the only other school that I was able to hear back from before I had to say absolutely not to all the other schools because I got into Wesleyan. I got into UVM into their honors program and also got a full ride scholarship, which was pretty cool. So it was it was nice having that backup option in case I didn't get into any other school. And then I applied to Wesleyan ED2 and got in, and I'm going, and that's very exciting. And so I I was not able to hear back from any of the other schools, but I did get in there. Um and I'm finding out recently that it was a lot more of a hard call than it was in the past years. And so I'm I'm very proud of myself.
SPEAKER_07When you say it was a hard call, do you mean that there were more admissions or fewer people were accepted or more applicants?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there was a lot more applicants this year. Um and they they've been whittling down their class sizes over time.
SPEAKER_07You had applications regular decision in what was the process of deciding to go ED2 to Wesleyan like? Or what was the process of submitting? I guess you didn't know if you'd get in.
SPEAKER_04Of all of the schools that I was applying to, Wesleyan seemed like it was the most sporadic with how it accepted students. And seeing about how Brown mostly picked students from specific schools rather than students of specific quality, um, I was very curious to see how schools accepted students. Vassar and Skidmore and Oberlin and the likes did something very similar where they found schools that they really liked and chose students from those schools. But Wesleyan did not do that and was super weird about it. They were super decisive on whether or not they would take students depending on who they were rather than the schools that they went to. So when I was looking at statistics from not only my school, but the schools in the area, it was it, it was hard to find a pattern in how they chose students, which is absolutely a good thing if you're looking for students who are of a specific quality, not of a specific SAT score or educational upbringing. And that made me feel really confident. And so I was like, all right, it seems like the toughest one to go into. Might as well put my plate forward for ED2. So I have not only a higher chance for the school that I really, really love, I can go there and settle my mind for applications maybe a little bit earlier than I would if I just did Dragular Decision.
SPEAKER_07Now that you have weathered the whole cycle and come out on top, any tips for uh students and their families that are about to go into this process?
SPEAKER_04I would really say trust your instincts. I know that at the end of the day, when I I had the most enjoyment at the tour that I went to with Wesleyan, and I ended up getting in, and I'm thrilled beyond belief. Things kind of work if you let them work. Um, if you let your instincts guide you where you want to be and not get hung up on things like names, I think is is one thing that kind of pushed me back. I think a lot of this process has to do with trusting yourself and knowing your worth because there's a lot of factors that are pushing down that worth, whether it be statistical scores of you're not gonna get in, you're gonna get in. It's a 7% versus a 13% versus a 20%. Just knowing that you will find your place is what I had to keep reminding myself.
SPEAKER_07Anything in hindsight that you would change about how you approach this or that would have made it easier?
SPEAKER_04I would have started writing my applications in in summer. I I wish I started my writing so much sooner so I would didn't have to cram, especially during when I had to take like calculus and final exams for that. Also, just kind of letting yourself emote, it's a really emotional process, and kind of taking care of your needs on that front is is really important when there's a lot of high stress, high stakes. There can be a lot of emotions that can be felt during this time. Thank you so much, River. Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_07So that is our show for today. Thank you so much for listening, for following us on Instagram and Facebook, and thank you especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcast. Our show is very specifically for students on the spectrum navigating college, and we appreciate your appreciation for Autism Goes to College. Now, as promised from the top, here are the ways to see the film. The documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels, but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo On Demand, which you can access from your Apple TV or most other smart TVs by going to the Vimeo On Demand app. You can find a link on our website at www.autismgoes to college.org. The film is also available for educational use and for live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Don't forget, please follow us on Instagram to stay current and consider joining our vibrant community on Facebook. Thank you for listening.
SPEAKER_08Hey, thanks for listening to Autism Goes to College. We'd love to hear from you about what you'd like to hear more about. You can find us on Instagram and Twitter at Autism Goes to College. Hit us up with your thoughts, tell us what's going on on your campus and in your college life. To see the documentary film or set up a screening, check out our website at autism goes to college dot org.