EPISODE 34: For students, by students. At UCLA, Ryan is building the Bruin Neurodiversity Collective - from overload to community—embracing identity and starting a student group

Ryan says he wanted to start college with "a blank slate and kind of do it on my own." In his college search, he didn't look at schools through the lens of what kind of supports would be available for him as a neurodivergent student.  He didn't disclose to any professors in his first quarter. He shares how he arrived at UCLA and dove in headfirst, took a full load of classes, got his first taste of dorm life, loved meeting new people, going to tons of events around campus. But keeping up the momentum proved impossible; Ryan needed more downtime, more space to unmask and relax and be himself. He took a break from school during freshman year and came back with the sense that his success in college would hinge on being true to his identity as an autistic - even, embracing it. Soon he was creating the space he was looking for by launching the Bruin Neurodiversity Collective- a student-run social and support organization he envisions on college campuses everywhere. Hear how Ryan’s doing as he winds down his sophomore year and expands his advocacy. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:08

Now that I'm genuinely enjoying my social life at Hamilton, I'm more incentivized to actually be social.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Having autism isn't something that should prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, see a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.

SPEAKER_04 0:32

There were a lot of black children on the spectrum who were also deaf. She's not the first one.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

I researched all of the majors and I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I changed it to chemical engineering to work at chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important, and I'm really passionate about state sustainability and stuff. So then I changed it to finally environmental engineering.

SPEAKER_07 0:56

Especially in a college town like OutdoorDash. Like, just go out and get the food. It's good exercise.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Hey everyone! Thanks for joining us on this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and for everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge, so here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a small group of self-advocates. We're all in college or recently graduated, and you can do this too.

SPEAKER_06 1:44

At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today. And it's all at our website, autismgoes to college.org. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new: there's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Hey everyone. Thanks for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. I'm Ryan Neal, and I'm an autistic sophomore at UCLA. During my first year, I realized firsthand that UCLA, despite being a major institution, had real gaps in serving its neurodivergent student groups. Therefore, I helped co-found the Brew Neurodiversity Collective, an organization merging neurodivergent student advocacy with institutional knowledge, resources, and support. I'm majoring in both communications and disability studies, and hope to spend my career advocating for better neurodivergent representation in media and entertainment in hopes of creating the kind of representation for autism that I would have liked to have seen as a child. I'm still learning and growing in my autistic identity and my overall identity as an adult. I've definitely struggled in college dealing with the lack of supports available and my own sense of internalized ableism. But it's been my self-advocacy that's helped me realize that being autistic is a strength and that if I accept the supports that are available to me, I can help make my experience at UCLA the best it can possibly be. I'm so happy to be here with Catherine O'Brien, the host of the Autism Goes to College podcast, and share my story. I'm gonna hand it over to her.

SPEAKER_06 3:44

Welcome to the podcast, Ryan. I'm so happy to have you. So I know UCLA is a big, prestigious school. And so I imagine that compared to many colleges and universities around the country, there are a lot of student organizations and probably some existing resources set up for neurodivergent students. So can you tell me how you felt that there was a gap you needed to fill as a freshman?

SPEAKER_01 4:10

It's it's interesting to me that you immediately linked being a large, prestigious institution with having extensive supports for different groups like neurodiversity. That's actually in my experience, that's not necessarily the case. UCLA does have a what's called the Center for Accessible Education, which is which handles accommodations and ADA 504 compliance for the school. So that's that's mandated by the law. But there's really been a large gap in student-run organizations for neurodiversity on campus. When I arrived, there were two, uh, one being uh a club that's called Autism Advocacy, that is primarily an advocacy group. So it's specifically for autism, and a club called All Brains, which which is the has been around the longest, but only since I think around 2017-2018. And and neither club has any stipulations around neurodivergent identity for for membership and leadership. So both of those organizations are led in part or in full by neurotypical people, which is great, but I I felt like there was a there was a lack of so social spaces specifically where I could be around neurodivergent and autistic peers, where I could feel safe to speak openly about my struggles with executive functioning or finding community. And I felt like when it comes to issues for neurodivergent folks, we should be the ones at the forefront advocating for ourselves, spreading awareness, creating social spaces and community. So what I did really it started off just from a self-advocacy perspective. I went to the head of the Center for Accessible Education. I went with my mom, actually, who's who's AD, who has ADHD herself and is a fierce advocate of mine. And we basically spoke to him about how UCLA is this massive institution and how neurodivergent students, as a percentage of the population, is anywhere from 3 to 5%, not counting undiagnosed folks. And yet there's this significant gap in both student-led advocacy and community spaces and any meaningful outreach by administration to rectify institutional ableism in higher education. And I went at it from a point of view of this was impacting my education. But by the end of the meeting, we'd really identified an opportunity to work together, administration and student, to help solve these problems that we identified. And that was the first step into creating what's now the Brew and Neurodiversity Collective, which I've been working on in an official capacity since October 2023. And we're still working on it today. And I'm incredibly proud of what we've accomplished.

SPEAKER_06 7:38

So, how did you figure out what to focus on for the mission once you identified that need and had that powerful meeting?

SPEAKER_01 7:47

I really tried to be intentional about noticing gaps and finding places where we could be most impactful. I didn't want to just create an organization for the sake of saying I could create an organization. I wanted to meet needs that weren't being met. So I first took a glance at the other organizations on campus and neurodiversity organizations. And I wanted, at least on the student end, for the BNC to be exclusively neurodivergent student-led, because there's a uh a mantra in our community, nothing about us without us. And I figured if anyone has the experience and perspective to advocate for neurodivergent students, it would be neurodivergent students. So that really was my starting point. And then I went and looked not only at neurodivergent organizations on campus, but at other schools like at UC Davis or Stanford. And I I noticed that at a lot of these institutions, some of them had supports for academics or independent living for autistic or neurodivergent folks. But I found very few, if any, that had had social interaction and community building and making connections as a key facet of the organization. And I reflected back on my experience at UCLA and and I and I kind of observed that I had done a decent enough job getting my getting good grades, getting getting to classes on time, meeting my academic requirements. It's UCLA. It's a it's the number one ranked public school in the in the country. Everyone there is a is a is a good, capable student. What I really needed was a place where I could find community where I wouldn't feel like I needed to mask and make super intense eye contact and inflect my voice and and put on a performance so I could find acceptance. I wanted a place that I want a place that had people that understood the the burden of moving through life in a in an environment that isn't built for my brain. And I wanted that camaraderie and that community. And because I wasn't really able to find it anywhere else on campus, that's something that was really important for me to create. And since and since we created it, we've already had four or five social events with I think an upwards of 20 people showing up to one of them. And we'd have students make PowerPoint presentations on hyperfixations of theirs and present it to the group. We had uh video game night where people brought their switches and played and played uh Smash Bros. and Mario Kart. We had game night with Uno and Cards Against Humanity, and just times where we'd stay up till like 12 and 1 a.m. and talk about just neurodiversity theory and current events and debates on which season of The Mandalorian is better. And it's been a been really awesome to not not only create that social space that I crave, but to also get to participate in it and fill that void for me that was there since freshman year.

SPEAKER_06 11:28

Yeah. I'm honestly not surprised that UCLA doesn't have a ton of support. I'm there as a PhD student for my fellowship. Like UCR also lacks that social space, but I will say one thing that I find quite positive compared to when I was an undergraduate over a decade ago is that there is a general awareness of neurodivergent students and that we are on campus. You know, all of the community that I found with neurodivergent people in college in uh 2008 to 2012 was ad hoc. We had some queer spaces on campus that were affinity-based, but the disability space was mostly the attitude was we are abled and we're going to go out and help people who are too disabled to come to college. There was no room for the idea that we were on campus and needed space of our own. But I'm glad that's changing.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, I I mean it it's it's interesting to hear about that perspective from because in 2008, your first year as an undergrad, I was four years old. And that was the time when Autism Speaks was releasing uh ads that that described autism as something that would break families apart.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

Autism will steal your child and your marriage.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah, I think today there's there's still progress to be made, but I think there is a lot more, a lot more conversations about autism on college campuses. And I think it's because more and more students are being willing to be openly autistic and to identify with that label in a public setting. Because previously it was either you were visibly autistic and in some kind of special education, or you were amassed autistic and you didn't disclose because either you weren't diagnosed or because you didn't want to face the stigma. So then all people knew about autism was what they could see and perceive. And I think it's just taken self-advocates over time to be like, I'm autistic, but I go to college and I have an apartment and I have friends and I have relationships, and that doesn't make me any less autistic to help shift the narrative. And that's part of the work I want to do because for a lot of my life, really up until late high school, early college, I was mortified of anyone finding out that I was autistic because I'm a I'm a self-identified extrovert. I love people and I love engaging with people. And the idea that I have a condition or disability that makes that hard, it if it felt heartbreaking. But but like like what like what you're saying, it requires autistic people to lead the conversations about that disability, that condition for there to be meaningful change.

SPEAKER_06 14:26

So you have town hall meetings with administration. How has that gone? What sort of issues are coming up?

SPEAKER_01 14:35

I think first off, even just having the town hall meeting as in general and seeing all these faces and names and voices popping up onto the Zoom screen was so gr so gratifying in and of itself. And it was the first time at in in UCLA that I was speaking to more than 10, five or 10 neurodivergent folks in one setting, and suddenly we had 40 to 50 in a room. So off the bat, if if it was just a five-minute check-in where people introduced themselves and left, I would have felt like it was a victory. Um, but it was just even better because the next two hours would consisted of just really beautiful conversations between students on the call talking about their experiences being neurodivergent. And as part of that, they were naming. I'm autistic, I'm a I have ADHD, I struggle with executive functioning, I struggle meeting people and making connections, and it and these conversations were happening out in the open. And as someone who'd spent uh a lot of his life being almost ashamed of being autistic, it it was incredibly inspiring to be a part of a room where everyone's talking about their neurodivergent identities openly. In terms of what was discussed, there were a few commonalities, a common common themes. I think the first one the the process of getting accommodations for both academic and living was based on what they said, very, very delayed, very convoluted.

SPEAKER_06 16:27

There were a lot of students who I gave up on getting my UCR official accommodations transferred to UCLA because it's it's just too complicated. Do they know we have executive function challenges or not?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

It's it's hilarious. I I I almost think it's like having an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting inside of a crowded bar. Yes. It's it's it's impossible. Like students were saying I'm autistic and I struggle with burnout from having to mask socially and to interact with so many different people, and I need accommodations to to give allowance for if I have burnout or if I need an alternate way to complete a group assignment. And the way that they have to do that is they have to schedule a meeting with a a worker at the CAE, and then they have to schedule a meeting with their professor and with their TA, and it's just it's creating the environment that they're trying to avoid. That was a huge one. It showed up in housing as well, because for a lot of students, if if you have their ADHD students who need to need to STEM or fidget or pace around a room if they're needing to do work, and they weren't able to be matched with roommates or room accommodations to allow that, or there's an autistic student whose roommate uh couldn't agree with her on room temperature, and that made it sensory hell for this student. And those are real needs. I I get I get overstimulated by by noise pollution, and my room is is right outside a really crowded public area, and I didn't realize that that was going to be an issue until I got there, but it's it's challenging for me to be able to view that space as safe and a space where I can recover. So so the process for getting accommodations, they reported, is incredibly challenging. Students have reported that certain teachers and professors have been unwilling to grant accommodations. Uh, I think particularly older professors in STEM-related fields. And especially if you're autistic, it's or really for for anyone, but especially if you're autistic, it's unreasonable to put the burden on a student to advocate for why they deserve an accommodation they've already been granted. It's it's intimidating. They're professors, they have authority and power over you. And I think the last part from the town hall that really stood out to me was related to the mission. Students were just mentioned how uh isolating uh it it could be at times, I think, particularly autistic students, to be at such such a large public university with so many clubs and extracurriculars and opportunities. Yet because autism is a social uh disability, uh feeling isolated from that sense of community. And that can and that was that was really sad to hear because a lot of students had already graduated before they they had a chance to be part of the BNC. But yeah, and I also wanted to mention that I think, like I said before, there were members of administration present at the meeting, even one of the vice-chancellors of student affairs. And I thought it was really important that for this town hall meeting, it wasn't just a virtue signaling show of of support and care, but that students could show up and actually feel like their concerns and words could be heard by people at UCLA who have the power to create meaningful change.

SPEAKER_06 20:43

Yeah. So in terms of the town hall not feeling performative and like virtue signaling, have you seen any change in response to the concerns that maybe were heard for the first time by administration?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

There have definitely been conversations that I don't know that that would have been had otherwise. I think that's the first step. Uh UCLA is it's a really it's it's we call it a college, but it's a multi-billion dollar corporation that that can be incredibly slow moving at times to create real policy change. I think one conversation I've had is about having resources for getting accommodations centralized in one place to help to help minimize the executive functioning it takes to find where do you apply for accommodations, where do you apply for housing, how do you communicate to professors so there's less of that guesswork. There have been conversations about for the housing situation, having CAE facilitate roommate groups for neurodivergent students who have similar sensory or housing. Needs and help neurodivergent students access prioritization and get rooms with people who share similar sensory needs that could help solve part of the problem.

SPEAKER_06 22:11

Yeah. That would be a very elegant way to solve it, frankly.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah, it's a lot of, I think for a school like UCLA, a lot of the I believe a lot of the more meaningful short-term solutions to these problems isn't going to be in the form of changes in actual policy or writ the written terms and and legal jargon, but in finding ways to work within the rule set we have.

SPEAKER_06 22:44

I'm wondering how you ended up at UCLA.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

For starters, it's UCLA. It's the highest ranking school I got into. And it was my parents alma mater. So I was really excited to kind of follow in their in their footsteps. One of the things about UCLA that was really helpful for me is that I have a lot of family near campus. For instance, my grandmother lives in an apartment in Westwood. So about five five-minute drive from my dorm. And what that's meant is I've had a space where I can go and be alone and recharge. I have someone that can help make me food if I don't have the executive functioning to make my own meal. And I have a family member who I feel like I can demask around and get comfort and support if I need it. But it's a privilege to have family so close to someone in call to you in college, which is part of why I'm really passionate about advocacy, because I've had a lot of resources and support that other people don't have. That's a big reason why I chose UCLA being near absolutely crucial uh support system with my family. But the accessibility or autism supports, that was not a factor in my decision, not at all. Because like we've discussed, uh UC UCLA really hasn't had the kind of comprehensive student organization around neurodiversity that it really should, and that some other schools have had. So hopefully I'm able to fill that gap.

SPEAKER_06 24:36

I hope so too. So did you not look at school supports in detail when you were applying to colleges, or was that not a major factor in the decision?

SPEAKER_01 24:48

It it honestly wasn't that big of a factor. Honestly, it was something I think my mom looked into a little more than myself. But I guess for context, around 17, 18, when I was applying to colleges, I had just got school accommodations in 10th grade for the first time. I had barely began speaking openly about being autistic in 2021. And going into college, I kind of selfishly wanted an opportunity to kind of break free from being autistic and what that meant, and to have a blank slate and to kind of do it on my own. So it wasn't really at the top of my list. And I think that for neurodivergent students, for autistic students applying for college, it really is something that I recommend you look into because it would be nice if you don't have to create it.

SPEAKER_06 25:50

So in hindsight, you maybe wish you should have. I hear you saying you you wanted uh uh to do it your own way. Is that a way of saying you had hoped not to disclose and to sort of see if you could maybe completely camouflage and present as neurotypical in your new surroundings? What was that about?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

I think you put it quite elegantly. It was it was my attempt to see if I could go about college without being identified as autistic. So, for context, I was diagnosed at 18 months, but I didn't find out until I was 13, by by which point I'd already developed a personal identity as an extrovert, as a as a social person. And that identity was really important to me. And autism, the disability, like the actual label, has nothing to do with the with the friendships and connections you can make. But autism, the stigma, autism, the social perception is that of someone like Sheldon Cooper from the Big Bang Theory, someone who's cold and detached and kind of mean, someone that people kind of mean, someone that people put up with, that that they that they love him in spite of being autistic, not because of it. And that wasn't something I wanted to opt into. It was something I was quite scared of. So when I had the opportunity to go into this space where I'm living on my own and no one knows who I am or my history, it was it was intoxicating. And but but it took getting really sick early in my freshman year and really struggling to make and maintain friendships that it just kind of slapped me, hit me in the face that being true to being autistic and to my identity, it's not a choice if I want to actually succeed and get the most out of my experience. I I have to embrace being autistic because it's such a huge part of who I am, and I have to find some way to deal with people having stigmatized and stereotyped opinions about it. And and that's that was the launch point for me, uh uh self-advocating for on campus and and eventually starting the BNC.

SPEAKER_06 28:23

Yeah, it it can be very hard to feel the tension between needing your authenticity and then feeling the weight of stigma because autism is still very stigmatized. So you alluded to your transition from high school to UCLA being a little bit rocky and you getting sick eventually, maybe burning out. Can you say more about that?

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Yeah, absolutely. So, like I said, I was very impacted throughout childhood and all the way to adulthood by by the stigma of autism. So I went about uh what what uh what people call opposite action. If there was something, some behavior that felt autistic to me, I wanted to do the exact opposite. So I tried to talk to everybody I met, whether it was in line waiting for food or walking to class, if someone was sitting next to me in a discussion, I'd try to get their contact information. If I knew that people on my floor were going out at night, I'd make sure to tag along. I felt that sheer volume of social interaction would almost disprove any notion that my autism is impacting or disabling me. And what that meant was I sleep was became less of a priority, eating healthy meals became less of a priority because I couldn't, I couldn't waste, waste time making sure I had really healthy food if I was gonna be with be with people or or go out. I just really I didn't try to get accommodations in my classes because everyone around me was so smart and accomplished, and I didn't want to feel like I was doing any less than my peers. It was by definition, it was internalized ableism. And I think like you alerted to, I absolutely, both physically with my health, but also mentally, I burned myself out. I pushed myself to my absolute limits. And it impacted me in a way that I almost I almost had to drop all my classes because I I wasn't able to complete complete them all. And and if it weren't for the support system I had in place, if it weren't for my my my family and my mother advocating for me, I don't know if I would have been able to finish out that first first quarter. And I'm I'm a diagnosed autistic who has a therapist and who has context for for what's going on. There are loads of undiagnosed autistic people, particularly women who who go through the same things I went through, uh, but without without the autism label. But there are there are people I've met who who have decided not to disclose, who have have have felt the need to to socialize more than their social battery permits. I I I know people who have who've gone diagnosed and have had friends kind of shun them because of a perception they've had. And it just speaks to I think this larger problem around people's perception of autism as this, again, scary, bad disability being so different from the reality, which is this vast spectrum of ways of being. And it was the act of accepting the reality of being autistic, accepting that if I've had a really long day at school and have a ton of discussion sections where I'm speaking with classmates, that I might not have the energy to go out at night and that should be okay, and I shouldn't beat myself up for that. And that combined with my self-advocacy, that that saved my college career. I'm gonna get a degree from UCLA because I eventually decided to accept the reality that I'm autistic and to move forward with that. That was a close call.

SPEAKER_06 32:33

Yeah. So do you have any hard-earned advice in hindsight other than being authentic and accepting the support and accommodations that are out there once you disclose?

SPEAKER_01 32:47

That's an excellent question. A lot of being autistic, I think, is an amplification of being human. I read somewhere that the autistic brain, there's just tangibly more electrical activity than it is for the average neurotypical brain. In a lot of ways, autism is just heightened humanness. So so in that vein, every human feel feels uh compulsion to compare themselves with others and to and to feel insecure about how you're doing compared to someone else. Oh, they're they're smarter than me, they're faster than me, they're prettier than me, they're doing more activities than me. That's a human thing. But in my experience, and I'm sure a lot of neurodivergent folks experience being autistic and being neurodivergent and having a disability can make those comparisons really painful. Like, why is it that my friend is able to go to class five days a week and still have the energy to go hang out at a friend's house when I need to recharge at home with an iMask on and headphones? That doesn't seem fair. Why can't I push myself to do better? Or why do I need to get extensions on my assignments? Because I have such bad executive functioning skills that I can't get started on an essay until the day it's due. And I think it's easy to force yourself to live up to those around you, those influences. There's there's a lot of I've I felt a lot of urge to not get accommodations with my academics and to just get my damn essay in on time. And I want anyone listening to know beating yourself up for being disabled and not taking advantage of supports you have is like beating yourself, it's like being disabled twice. You're you're only hurting yourself. So I'd say if you have the opportunity to get accommodations, whether it be official with your school, or whether it's the opportunity to say no to a coffee chat or or a party or or even an extra club that you want to do. Don't just say yes to it because you know that your neurotypical peers have the capacity to. It's okay to be disabled, but it's not about tallying up how many hours you put into something, and then you find the sum, and that's your measure of as a person. We have to measure ourselves differently because we have different brains. And I just hope that anyone who is neurodivergent uh finds it in themselves to live within their capacity. Obviously, push yourself, go outside your comfort zone, grow, but don't just try to do what uh other people do because their brains are different than yours.

SPEAKER_06 35:59

I would like to amplify that for any neurodivergent people listening. You cannot bully yourself into success. Just like it doesn't feel good to be taught by a teacher who shames you and punishes you for getting things wrong. Don't do that to yourself either.

SPEAKER_01 36:14

I I sec I second that. I I I love how succinct you were with it. There's enough, there's enough people bullying us as is. Don't bully yourself.

SPEAKER_06 36:23

So you mentioned you're majoring in communication and disability studies. How's that been going for you? Do you like your classes?

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Uh I I I like I like my classes a lot. Um, I think communication especially has been really interesting to me because I I've had a lot of hyper focuses on on pieces of media like Star Wars or or Marvel, watch a lot of TV and movies, like a lot of people do. And and to be able to learn more about how media works and why why we watch the watch the shows we watch and why we interact with people the way we do. It's been it's been super interesting. There was two lectures that was in in one of my communications classes that was strictly on body language and communications in communication, and I'm like, oh my God, they're just describing in writing the the things I'm processing as I talk to anybody. And it was it's really cool to learn about that from an academic perspective. But at the same time, a lot of commun in communication specifically, a lot of the lessons about interpersonal communication are very are very ableist. There was a class where the professor was talking about how important it is to be an active listener when someone's speaking, and to look them in the eyes, and to nod and to animate your face in in accordance with what they're saying. And I I raised my hand and I I asked, what if you're autistic and you don't have the capacity to active listen in that way, or you can only do so for a finite period of time. What are you to do? And his answer was along the lines of this is the way it is, you'll an autistic person would just have to try their best. And that's that's a tough toe to swallow if some someone who's who's an expert in communications saying that if you're an autistic person and you want to connect with people, you have to do your best to not think the way that you do. That's devastating. And and that's part of why I wanted to be in that that that major, because the way so many people view communication is through a strictly neurotypical lens. And the shows and movies we consume are written by neurotypicals, and autism is used either in a very specific disabling context. We have like Sheldon Cooper, we have Rain Man, we have uh the good doctor, or or as as punchlines for missing cues or responding badly to to how someone's speaking. And it was that stigma in media and in communication that had led me to be so hostile to my own autism. So, in a lot of ways, my I feel like my education is kind of like infiltrating the enemy camp to learn their secrets and then to come out the other side and and yeah, kind of fix the system a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 39:53

Um unfortunately, you've cued into something very real, which is that professions who were closely linked to helping or therapizing um neurodivergent and disabled individuals have some of the most harmful attitudes because some of the old ways that autism was treated were were simply about camouflaging as much as possible, um, whether or not it was beneficial to your learning or your personhood. So I'm but that that that professor is is wrong. And anybody who is listening to the podcast should know that I like instinctively covered my eyes in pain at the idea that I would be forced to stare somebody in the face while listening to them. That wouldn't help me learn what they were saying.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Um but they they have PhDs and they're leading lectures and they're at the top of their field, and the only way to change the narrative is to enter those fields yourself and be the change that that you want to see.

SPEAKER_06 40:56

Well, I am I'm teaching another course at UCR this year, so uh I'm trying to be the change here.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

Um that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_06 41:04

Speaking of that, um, I imagine that the process of creating the BNC and working with administration has been really eye-opening, and you've learned a lot about the uh UC bureaucracy and the systems. Can you give us any insight from that process? Like what have you learned?

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah, absolutely. I I really came to understand just how much executive functioning is required. So much of the work uh entails scheduling meetings uh across different departments of the university, whether it be the residential life where the students live, whether it be uh the Center for Accessible Education. It's lots of back and forth emails and scheduling. When we have social events, we have to reach out to different clubs to help spread the spread the word. And a lot of the time I've had to utilize skills that are impaired by my disability in order to be a self-advocate on campus and it and help make me understand that a lot of the reason why there isn't a lot of neurodiversity representation in corporate spaces or leadership spaces or even at UCLA is not isn't necessarily because people aren't allowing autistic or ADHD people to be hired, but because a lot of the job responsibilities are very taxing on executive functioning and communication. As an autistic person, I don't have the energy to figure out the right way to word and email communication to a million different people. Um, and I think that showed me that if we want spaces to be neurodiversity affirming, we can't just plug and play. There have to be ways for neurodivergent folks to find in their employment for the employers to find a way to support them in being able to carry out their responsibilities. Like I've I've had to work on asking my team to take on a disproportionate amount of emailing responsibilities, or I've had to kind of uh nag my boss a bit about hiring uh an adult supervisor to help set to set meetings and agendas and give me the structure to be able to perform. And it's a lot of self advocacy required to to produce when you have a disability that makes producing difficult. So I think that's that's that's a major thing I learned that you have to find ways to. Make the work that you do afer to make it line up with your unique struggles and gifts.

SPEAKER_06 44:10

So now that you have founded Brun Neurodiversity Collective and you have some team members and co-leaders, how is the space evolving? Uh what is on the horizon and what are you guys planning next?

SPEAKER_01 44:27

That's what I'm really excited about. I think just in in a couple weeks, we're helping put on programming for uh UCLA's Neurodiversity Uh Celebration Week. Um so on so on the first day, we we're gonna invite uh a lot of student organizations. So our ourselves, the other neurodiversity diversity orgs, uh groups, uh clubs that work in in mental health with LGBT students, with students of color. We're gonna invite them all to a a tabling event out in Bruin Plaza, which is one of the social centers on campus. And to to really just be in that space as a visual representation that neurodivergent students exist on campus. And then we're we're hoping to, I think in the next year or so, pilot a mentorship pod program where we hope to have neurodivergent upperclassmen as mentors working with freshman mentees in pods of three or four. And the idea is that once a week the mentors and mentees can meet one-on-one and help with uh planning, scheduling, planning out the week, figuring out what clubs to apply to, or sp or spaces where neurodivergent students can can can you know take time to destimulate, but then also having times where the mentor and mentees can all meet together in a structured social environment and maybe go out to dinner or go bowling and have activities like that. And I think it would be amazing at not only providing kind of the academic supports that a lot of neurodiversity organizations offer, but allowing a structured space for neurodivergent student mentees to meet each other and build build connection and friendships and not have to force them to go up to someone in class to find friends. And and even further down the line, I really want as many colleges as possible, particularly in the UC system with neurodivergent organizations to connect and to share resources and programs and experience and to create almost an an Avengers initiative of neurodiversity organizations. Because I think that neurodiversity is the next wave of in a lot of ways just social progression. It's a it's it's a group of people that previously have been relegated to special education and and ch charity drives, but we are smart and capable, and universities would be wise to create spaces for us because we can make any college we go to a better place. And I think if the UCs share resources and organize, it can be a school system that neurodivergent students across the country know that they can go to and they'll be accommodated and supported and have community spaces waiting for them. That's a big dream and that's way out in the future. But I'm I'm confident that at some point down the line that dream will be a reality.

SPEAKER_06 47:57

Well, it's powerful and important. And, you know, if we are, in fact, the nation's leading public university system here at the University of California, you know, why not lead in neurodiversity as well?

unknown 48:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 48:11

Thank you so much, Ryan. This was a really fabulous conversation. I have deeply enjoyed talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you for reaching out.

SPEAKER_06 48:20

So that is our show for today. Thank you so much for listening, for following us on Instagram and Facebook, and thank you especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcast. Our show is very specifically for students on the spectrum navigating college, and we appreciate your appreciation for Autism Goes to College. Now, as promised from the top, here are the ways to see the film. The documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels, but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo On Demand, which you can access from your Apple TV or most other smart TVs by going to the Vimeo On Demand app. You can find a link on our website at www.autismgoes to college.org. The film is also available for educational use and for live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Don't forget, please follow us on Instagram to stay current and consider joining our vibrant community on Facebook. Thank you for listening. Hey, one more thing. If you're listening right now, I'd like to ask you to take a minute and do us a favor, write a review of Autism Goes to College on Apple Podcasts. This podcast is free for everyone to listen to anytime. But reviews from listeners like you can help us make the case to funders that this content matters. So, if you found the Autism Goes to College podcast interesting or helpful, please take a moment and review us now on our podcasts. Just a couple of sentences about what you've liked best. Thank you. And thank you for your support of Autism Goes to College.