Autism Goes To College
Autism Goes To College
EPISODE 37: For Sam, the best answer is online learning - how structure and planned social time made online work for him
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Sam is a grad student at Adams State University in Colorado where he's working towards a Master's in Psychology. It's a program that's mostly online and meets in person one week a month. That hybrid situation is a good fit for Sam, who had mixed experiences as an undergrad. He felt overwhelmed at times, didn't always love dorm living, and took a medical leave for part of one semester. But he got back on track with online classes, building his own schedule around school, and living in an apartment. He never had accommodations, but as a psychology student, he gained some insights into his own learning style and challenges, and in this episode, he shares his path to a late diagnosis and his academic successes.
Now that I'm generally enjoying my social life at Amazon, I'm more incentivized to actively be social.
SPEAKER_02Having autism isn't something that could prevent people from having a successful college experience. It takes work.
SPEAKER_00Join clubs, find groups, find your people, find ways to fit in, be a peer mentor, see somebody who can help you get involved on campus.
SPEAKER_05There were a lot of black children on the spectrum who were also dead. She's not the first one.
SPEAKER_04I researched all of the majors and I eliminated the ones that sounded not interesting to me. So then I changed it to chemical engineering to work with chemistry. Then I took an environmental science class and I'm like, I think environmental issues are really important, and I'm really passionate about sustainability and stuff. So then I changed it to finally environmental engineering.
SPEAKER_06Especially in a college town like Elk DoorDash. Like, just go out and get food. That's good exercise.
SPEAKER_03Hey everyone. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Autism Goes to College, the podcast for students on the spectrum and for everyone who supports us. Navigating college is always a challenge. So here are the hacks, insights, and great ideas you've been looking for to make college work for you. We're a small group of self-advocates. We're all in college or recently graduated. And you can do this too.
SPEAKER_09At the end of this episode, I'll give you some details about where you can see the film today. And it's all at our website, autismgoes to college.org. Every month we drop a new episode. Here's what's also new. There's a resource center on our website with dozens of outtakes of important stuff that didn't quite make it into the film, all the podcast episodes, and blogs from experts and from student advisors from the film. Thanks for listening. We do hope to hear from you.
SPEAKER_07Hello, thank you for listening to our podcast, Autism Goes to College. My name's Sam. I went to college online for my undergraduate degree in psychology, and I am currently in a master's program to become a therapist, which is partially in person but mostly online. And I also have a certificate in publishing from the Denver Publishing Institute through Denver University. I'm here with Catherine O'Brien, the host of Autism Goes to College podcast. And I'm going to hand it over to her.
SPEAKER_09Thanks, Sam. I'm so excited to hear from you. We should also mention that Sam posts on TikTok as Philociraptor, so go follow him there. So, Sam, you mentioned that you went to college online. I'm assuming that means that you did not live on campus and maybe you lived at home. Can you talk a little bit about your choice and how you lived during that beginning of college?
SPEAKER_07Sure. So for the beginning of a college, I uh actually went to a community college. So I was commuting to that for two or three classes a semester. I lived in my parents' home and I drive to that.
SPEAKER_09Nice. And how did you choose uh your institution? Where where were you uh going to school?
SPEAKER_07I went to Colorado Mountain College. Uh I chose that school because I was actually caretaking for my grandfather who was dying of Parkinson's disease at the time. So during the day and in the evenings, I was taking care of him by myself. Uh so but I still continued my education until COVID hit, and I took a uh a break when that happened.
SPEAKER_09But yeah, um, I I my condolences about the passing of your grandfather. Did you consider a four-year college or uh what made you steer towards the two-year pathway?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I got to a lot of different colleges. I got into DU at the time and Boulder, and I got into Reed College in uh the Northwest, but uh I just I had to take care of him. It was my duty, really, I felt.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. Re Reed was actually on my short list as well. Um Sam. So I I'm interested to hear that that was when you looked at.
SPEAKER_07So I went to two different colleges after that. I went to a college in person for a semester, and that that I didn't like that, and I I got so burned out from that.
SPEAKER_09Um you mentioned that it was overwhelming. Can you talk more about how it went? Did you live on campus?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I lived in uh I had a private room, but I had a shared like suite with uh apartment suite with uh a bunch of football players, and they were partiers and they'd like dump water on people and like do crazy stuff. I liked them, they were cool, and I did enjoy them, but I we it wasn't the best living environment for me. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, if you value like very quiet environments to unwind, I can see how a group of young athletes who are having the absolute time of their lives wouldn't really be conducive to just like peace and quiet.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Uh but I did meet my girlfriend who I've been dating for like two years. We we were friends for a year and then started dating. So that was a very good aspect of that time.
SPEAKER_09Oh, that's very nice. I'm glad you can find some silver linings, even if the living situation was probably pretty raucous.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_09So it sounds like the on-campus experience took its toll. How did you cope to make it through the semester and and manage afterwards?
SPEAKER_07Well, I did not make it through the semester. I took a medical withdrawal and I actually ended up in like even though I had not been on any substances like in months. Um I they didn't know where to put me really. I guess I don't know who made the decision really in the end, because I wasn't mentally I was so burnt out I couldn't do anything. They put me in a drug rehab program, even though I didn't have an addiction. So I was uh there for two a month and a half, like starting in October. So I only made it a few months uh a couple months into the semester, um, and then ended up in a drug rehab.
SPEAKER_09Interesting. So you although you weren't struggling with substance use at the time, yeah. Did you find that rehab facility to be a supportive place to recover?
SPEAKER_07Actually, yeah. I got forced to go to like AA meetings and stuff uh like that that I didn't need. And I I learned from that because I I'm in school now to be a therapist, so I guess I learned like professionally it's been intro it's good perspective. Uh and I made some friends there, and they that was actually the first place I was really like fully accepting of being autistic towards myself because I was late diagnosed. So I um uh uh I felt I was more accepted there than in most places, uh, even though it wasn't necessarily the ideal like uh curriculum for burnout.
SPEAKER_09No, it speaks to the the difficulty of of finding mental health services in a timely fashion, and I'm very glad to hear that you're using that experience to you know create a career where you can change things a little bit. So I'm assuming because you graduated, it sounds like you went back to college after the medical leave. How did you decide what to do next?
SPEAKER_07I just decided that the in-person studies were not good. So I immediately started online school that next semester, but I was able to get in for the winter semester after getting out of rehab in early December.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_07I like was starting school like a week after I got out. Uh great. And you felt I yeah, I felt fine. The online program really like made it so easy for me that I could like instead of structuring my life around school, I could structure school around my life. Uh so yeah.
SPEAKER_09What factors did you look for in that online program? How did you choose?
SPEAKER_07Uh, not much. I I've I really just um just wanted the online program. I didn't really know what to look for, I'd never done that before. Um, and I ended up going to Grand Canyon University, which had some pretty positive aspects, but their user interface was good on their website.
SPEAKER_09Uh totally. That makes a lot of sense. I can see how the website for online school would be absolutely critical to how it works. So you mentioned that going to Grand Canyon online allowed you to structure school around your life. What else did you have going on at that point? Were you were you working, living independently?
SPEAKER_07I was working uh for about a year like at different jobs. I couldn't really I I I actually gotten discriminated against at a couple jobs. Um, so I didn't like hold those ones. Uh so I I worked in restaurants, I worked in a factory. Um I I I haven't worked since uh like 2022. But I lived on my own. I am in my own apartment. Uh I'm I'm a music producer, like like I was rapping, uh writing uh I I write uh articles and and I started doing social media on TikTok again because I had had a successful gaming account where I had about 80,000 followers, but then I stopped doing that and started doing the autism content.
SPEAKER_09And you're still on TikTok, of course.
SPEAKER_07So and YouTube, yeah.
SPEAKER_09Oh, okay. Great. I didn't know about YouTube. So you mentioned late diagnosis. How how did you arrive at at your diagnosis? What what was the moment or what was the kind of initiating event that led you to finding out?
SPEAKER_07Well, I I had been getting my degree in psychology, you know, and so I had been studying like a lot of different things about like disorders in the mind. And I also had just been looking through um thinking or contemplating the past. And it turns out I had gotten a test I didn't know about when I was a child for autism. And um I read through all the psychometrics and found that I had scored very highly probable for having autism. At the time they said it was like, you know, the Asperger's, uh, since it was like 20 years or 15 years ago when I had gotten that test when I was nine years old, but they dismissed all of that even though the psychometrics indicated I was autistic, um, as anxiety. So I never got any accommodations, and I actually had forgotten about the uh test even existing because my parents hadn't brought it up until I started to get suspicious that I might be on the spectrum and I could interpret the information because I was in school for psychology.
SPEAKER_09I see.
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_09So you had you had an old uh psychological report that had it in there, and nobody nobody nobody knew. Fascinating. So you graduated and now you're in grad school studying to be a therapist, which makes natural sense to me after studying psychology and struggling with your own um identity, your own uh diagnosis. So how how did you choose grad school and how did you choose this therapy program?
SPEAKER_07Um, it's also mostly online. So the therapy program is an in-state program for me. Um and I we go in for a week every semester or less. So you get a little in-person, but not so much where it's gonna throw off your routine and be your primary obligation to show up in person. So I chose it for those reasons. And um what else? Uh yeah, the price was good because it's an in-state school.
SPEAKER_09That's good. I'm wondering a little bit about the social aspects of on online uh and if that is important to you to feel connected uh in person or or at least digitally to your classmates. It sounds like your program now has some opportunities for in-person connection with that one week a month of uh in-person.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, so I I think that'll be good. Um but naturally I'm pretty reclusive, so I I don't really care very much like about like socializing with my like school peers. Uh it's never been a priority for me. Uh other people at times like thought I would um that would become a priority or that I'd like it, like, and develop that. And no, I don't really care. I I mean I have friends. I I hang out with poets and uh I and artists, like primarily. I and they're mostly older than me. Uh and I also uh uh I spend most of my like free time. I I'm like have a very good meditation teacher, uh a master who like so I've been spend a lot of time like meditating and also a lot of time reading and studying uh other topics like philosophy and uh history. So I I really don't mind the solitude. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_09So it sounds like that wasn't uh a compelling reason to go to in-person classes um when you tried them, and it also wasn't a drawback to going back to online.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I I got a lot out of the per experience in a way, not socially, but uh for the most part, but um I I took a class in ancient Greek, uh, which I liked, which I wouldn't have done any uh otherwise, and I um I I got a lot of practice like um rapping at the time, uh which was good.
SPEAKER_04Uh interesting.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I'm a rapper, so and producer, so I at the time I'd go to the like student, like uh the I was in the choir too, that's another thing. I was I actually got into the top choir at the college uh without any like I didn't know how to read music. So I follow the accompaniment of the piano.
SPEAKER_08Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Uh and I'd go into the practice hall at night and rap by myself, like stuff I had written and practice, things like that. Yeah. So that was very good. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_09S so were there careers besides therapy that you considered? Was there anything else you tried, or did you know that this was what was for you?
SPEAKER_07Um, well, I always had this feeling that I wanted to do therapy, at least like academically. Uh I did consider becoming an acupuncturist. I was in a program last year at right after I graduated for acupuncture for about like uh a month, and I decided it wasn't for me. Uh, but I made some really good friends there.
SPEAKER_08Okay.
SPEAKER_07Uh that I stayed that I went and had like drinks and lunch in Boulder with uh a close friend of mine I met there, and I learned a lot about Chinese uh philosophy.
SPEAKER_09So what made you realize acupuncture was not for you after all?
SPEAKER_07The touching. It required a lot of like touching and like also smelling for the program I was in. I was in for like five-element acupuncture, so they had a pretty high requirement for uh like being able to smell people without like uh like being very close to them, and I couldn't I didn't really have that sense of smell and I did not like getting touched very much. And also the like in-person element of being a therapist, it's much more flexible for like telehealth, so I could do stuff online. Whereas um being an acupuncturist, you can't give acupuncture on the computer unless there was a robot, and I don't think anyone would want a robot giving them acupuncture.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, what if at least what if you flinch and the robot? Yeah, I don't know. Anything can happen, really, very dangerous situations. So, yeah, no, no telehealth acupuncture. That makes sense. Um so you talked about finding that historical diagnostic report. Uh in in hindsight, when when you got your diagnosis, how did that feel? Like w did it all make sense? Can you talk can you talk about what that moment was like?
SPEAKER_07Um that's a good question. Uh honestly, for a while, for a year or two, um primarily it was confusion, even though like I mean, and gaslighting from like the like without people realizing it, people around me, because they saw me as this one in this one way. And when I learned that about myself, I started to realize that I had been unconsciously masking my behaviors and my intentions and my uh like my feelings for so long because I couldn't understand them. I I used to like smooth over things and not really understand like that certain ways I had acted in the world um were just because I was trying to not appear autistic to people even though I didn't know that was the case, uh, and it impacted my communication and my emotional health, and a lot of people didn't understand, and I also didn't understand what that would mean for like how do I reconcile my true nature to like like the person who I thought I was.
SPEAKER_09Yeah. And also like, how do I allow myself to be known to the people that already thought they knew me? How does that impact my relationships?
SPEAKER_07It did. It did, and it's better, a lot better now. But um I feel like if I wouldn't have been able to accept it, uh the the facts the way they were, I would have have been in a different position now where I would be still repressed and trying to like appear to be a way that is not good for my interior like feelings and life. Uh yeah.
SPEAKER_09No, I can speak from personal experience. It's it's terrible to live at constant war with your psyche trying to be someone you're not. Um so it sounds like because you didn't know about that early round of psych testing and it wasn't identified until you were an adult that you maybe didn't have any accommodations.
SPEAKER_07None.
SPEAKER_09What was what was that like? Do you have accommodations now that you have your diagnosis?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, actually, the first time I got accommodations was when I was taking anatomy and biology as a prerequisite for my acupuncture program. So I I couldn't like spell stuff very well and uh easily, and they required that for the course in uh anatomy. It's a lot to remember every bone in the body and how to spell it. Uh so I was able to get an accommodation actually at that time with the old test. The one they didn't even put like autism on it. They gave me an accommodation for with that test until I got the real test that I use that I have now, the second evaluation uh this year. So I wasn't formally diagnosed until earlier this year. Um and uh yeah, I had no accommodations through all of K through 12 and college, pretty much.
SPEAKER_09Um do you have any advice about going it without accommodations or about seeking accommodations when you haven't had them before?
SPEAKER_07I'll those yeah, I'll answer both of those questions. Uh when you don't have accommodations, you really need to like behind the scenes, you need to be evaluating what like environments and what kinds of cultures do I want to immerse myself in and where they won't recognize my your like where you're at. Because unfortunately, we live in a bureaucratic kind of state where, in order for our needs to be legitimate to the like our our authorities when we're in these programs, uh they It needs to be recognized by the psychiatric like machine. So uh if you're not gonna work with it, you have to find a way to like behind the scenes find your path, it's not gonna destroy your mental health. Uh and advocate for yourself to the best of your ability or have someone there with you to help. Uh and um advice for getting accommodations is to be not feel uh or to find a way to be over time to accept what you need help with, even though like and not totally rely on your strengths even though they're there. Uh just to be transparent about what you might need because it will make your life uh better, most likely, if you can accept what you might need help with, uh, instead of trying to repress those needs. The accommodations, even though if you've been undiagnosed your whole life, you might feel a lot of your pride uh dissolved in some ways, asking for help, uh, to just go with that because it can be very helpful to get accommodations. Uh and the feeling is good when you get them for the most part, because then you can be honest like in a way where it's accepted by like the authorities around you, um, and not just in sentiment uh where they don't do anything to actually help you.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, absolutely. I I found it to be a relief uh personally. I was also late diagnosed, so I just was an anxious student. Um but yeah, so thank you so much. I hope that online grad school continues to go well. Has the semester already started for you?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I've been in it for uh almost a month now. Uh so and I went straight from my publishing certificate program into this. That one burned me out. It was totally in person.
SPEAKER_08Oh, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_07It was a month straight of like going in person, driving to Denver. Uh I I that was too much.
SPEAKER_09Yeah, I see. The the combination of commuting and the the sensory and social demands of being with people all day is so intense.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Luckily I did have accommodations like where the people were to a large extent were able to like like like lower the volume in the room sometimes because there was a loud mic they'd use and it they wouldn't adjust it in the way that was very good sometimes for me.
SPEAKER_09Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I could wear my headphones. Um uh but the go that going into this master's program was pretty intense because uh I just was burned out from that publishing program to go into another school program, but uh it ended up being okay.
SPEAKER_09Uh yeah, I'm glad it worked out.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_09Well, best of luck with the rest of the semester. I hope it continues to go so very well. Thank you so much for coming on Autism Goes to College.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_09And now, as promised, here are ways to see the documentary. The documentary film Autism Goes to College is currently available through many channels, but the easiest way to see it today is to rent it on Vimeo on Demand, which you can access from your Apple TV or most smart TVs by going on the Vimeo On Demand app. You can also find a direct link on our website at www.autismgoes to college.org. The film is also available for educational use and live and hybrid screening events. All the relevant info and links can be found on our website. Thank you so much for listening, following us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok, and especially for adding your reviews on Apple Podcasts. Our show is specifically for students on the spectrum navigating college, and we really appreciate your support for Autism Goes to College. Thanks for listening.